April 26, 2012 
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April 26, 2012 [00:00:30] <Skipp_OSX> anyway, one of the lead programmers Marc Flerackers used to develop for Haiku, I wonder if he would be interested in making a port...[00:06:01] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[00:11:38] <mmadia> xyzzy -- did nielx get back to you re: drupal account?[00:20:17] *** duvjones has quit IRC[00:26:14] *** swarfega is now known as swarfega|away[00:26:44] *** luroh has quit IRC[00:27:33] *** duvjones has joined #haiku[00:31:06] *** duvjones has quit IRC[00:31:33] <jayrulez> Hello Skipp_OSX, do you know if I can change the decorations in Haiku at runtime?[00:32:09] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, you mean the decorator? The window title/border look?[00:32:26] *** Huggy has quit IRC[00:35:14] <jayrulez> yes[00:36:20] <Skipp_OSX> well, good news and bad news. The good news is that there is a tab for changing the decorator in Appearance. The bad news is that all decorators except the default decorator are currently broken.[00:36:59] <Skipp_OSX> you can change your decorator in R1/Alpha3 via the setdecor command[00:38:34] <jayrulez> Ok. I don't have a need for it right now. I was browsing the source today and saw two decorator dirs for mac and windows so I wanted to know the state of things. Thank you.[00:40:27] <Skipp_OSX> I'm not 100% sure, but, I believe what happened is that Stack & Tile got integrated into app_server, at that point any decorator that didn't support S&T was broken, which is all decorators except the default.[00:41:30] <Skipp_OSX> So to make the other decorators work again they need to be updated to support S&T I guess, and since nobody wants to do the work (they are silly anyway) the other decorators remain broken.[00:44:59] <jayrulez> How about the game kit, is that something that is being pushed?[00:47:18] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:47:54] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[00:48:00] <dreamed> aand back[00:48:25] *** orbital_fox has joined #haiku[00:48:54] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, what about the game kit? It exists amd works afaik[00:49:29] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[00:51:14] <jayrulez> Skipp_OSX I am interested in trying to port https://github.com/blackberry/GamePlay[00:54:00] <xyzzy> mmadia: sorry, been away. other than his response on the mailing list he hasn't[00:54:36] <mmadia> ok.[00:56:40] <mmadia> jayrulez -- iirc,there's the chance for some work to be done relating to the game kit. #332 maybe?[00:56:45] *** SMCollins has joined #haiku[00:57:07] <SMCollins> hello[00:57:14] <Skipp_OSX> hi[00:57:23] <SMCollins> hows it going skipp ?[00:57:43] <jayrulez> I will soon have a look at it. I'm trying to upload a screenshot of something I think shouldn't happen but I forgot my cpanel password :|[01:00:01] <jayrulez> Think I just found another problem :|[01:00:16] <jayrulez> I didn't forget my password, the problem is with web+[01:01:38] <SMCollins> on trac ? webpositive seems to loose th log in[01:02:21] <jayrulez> yea, web+ seems to lose the login from the prompt. If i cancel the prompt then get the login page then it accepts the password[01:03:04] <jayrulez> also it seems opening in a new target page/tab doesn't work[01:03:11] *** Negr0_VoP2P has quit IRC[01:03:31] *** Cian has quit IRC[01:03:39] <jayrulez> Anyway, the screenshot http://startupjamaica.com/screenshot1.png[01:03:48] <jayrulez> I don't think deskbar is supposed to look like that[01:06:42] <scgtrp> jayrulez: that's an option somewhere[01:06:54] <scgtrp> i don't remember what it's called, but that is an intentional feature[01:07:04] <xyzzy> jayrulez: IIRC clicking and dragging down on the dotted bit at the side of it brings it back to full size[01:08:21] <jayrulez> Yes it does[01:09:07] <SMCollins> yeah, thats one of the stranger deskbar configs[01:09:12] <jayrulez> Under deskbar preferences, under what conditions should I be unable to check "Show application expander"[01:09:13] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[01:09:16] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[01:09:17] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez: sure it should, you put it in mini mode[01:09:23] <Skipp_OSX> had me scared for a second[01:09:59] <jayrulez> Just looked like nothing I've seen before or expected.[01:10:00] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, show application expander requires you are in vertical expando mode[01:10:22] <Skipp_OSX> that is, not horizontal or mini-mode[01:11:28] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, you can put it in vertical expando mode by dragging the window by the little dots over to the left or right side of your screen.[01:11:52] <Skipp_OSX> alternatively you can use ctrl+alt+drag at least in a fairly recent nigtly.[01:12:13] <SMCollins> Skipp_OSX: that dotted line can be difficult to discern at times depending on screen dpi[01:12:14] <jayrulez> Yea, done that[01:12:22] *** aphedox has quit IRC[01:12:41] <jayrulez> I was having trouble grabbing the dots in the corner[01:12:47] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, hey, I didn't invent it :)[01:12:48] <jayrulez> that's how I got it in mini mode[01:13:04] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, like I said, ctrl+alt+drag works anywhere in the window[01:13:20] <Skipp_OSX> just FYI[01:13:26] <jayrulez> Yes Skipp_OSX, I meant before I was aware of that[01:13:35] <SMCollins> at around 70dpi its not bad, but at 90+dpi its downright infuriating to grab at times[01:13:49] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, life is tough :)[01:13:56] <jayrulez> would it be more intuitive to have a position option in the deskbar config?[01:14:20] <jayrulez> top, bottom, left, right and a mini mode checkbox when left or right is selected?[01:14:33] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, um, well, I think not having a position in the preferences is okay, the dragger is better, although I suppose it could be done.[01:15:08] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, seems like there would be a lot of options you could do it via a dropdown perhaps[01:15:12] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[01:15:32] <jayrulez> Yes, that's the idea[01:15:43] <jayrulez> a dropdown for top, bottom, left, right[01:16:06] <jayrulez> when the selected one is left or right, a mini mode checkbox could be available under[01:16:39] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, checkbox wouldn't work because you can be in minimode at the top or bottom[01:16:49] <Skipp_OSX> top-left, top-right, bottom-left, bottom-right[01:17:11] <Skipp_OSX> there are 8 positions in all[01:17:22] <Skipp_OSX> well, not counting full mode which I don't want to get into...[01:17:41] <SMCollins> full mode ?[01:17:50] * SMCollins curiosity is peaked[01:18:22] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, it is a disabled mode where Deskbar always takes up the full height of the window in vertical mode[01:18:45] <Skipp_OSX> err screen, not window[01:18:53] <dreamed> sort of like a NeXT dock being up the side?[01:18:58] <jayrulez> is bottom right always in mini mode?[01:19:14] <Skipp_OSX> dreamed, yep, sorta like that[01:19:32] <SMCollins> the full hieght of the desktop ?[01:19:40] <SMCollins> that'd be rather odd[01:19:55] <dreamed> it'd look very strange on a high resolution display[01:20:06] <jayrulez> When it drag to bottom right, it goes to mini mode[01:20:07] <dreamed> I imagine it would've worked fine on ~640x480[01:20:10] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, yeah, well, the 2 side modes are always at the top, there is no vertical expando mode from the bottom mode... I guess that would be possible though[01:20:37] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, full height of the Desktop yeah[01:21:16] <jayrulez> Skipp_OSX I am not sure if you answered my question...[01:21:38] <jayrulez> When I drag to bottom-right, it is in mini mode[01:21:45] <jayrulez> is that right?/[01:21:47] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, um, let me take a step back[01:22:08] <Skipp_OSX> there are 4 side of screen modes and 4 corner of screen modes[01:23:20] <Skipp_OSX> top and bottom modes take full width, left and right modes start at the top and take up as much space as you've got apps open, the four corner modes take just the space of the leaf menu + replicant tray[01:24:12] <Skipp_OSX> so bottom-right is a corner mode, thus, mini, yes, along with the rest of the corners[01:25:32] <Skipp_OSX> I was saying that it would be possible to have another pair of left and right side modes with the Deskbar starting at the bottom with apps growing up instead of down... but I guess that would be a bit strange...[01:25:58] <jayrulez> I think you are not getting my question, sorry. Let me try again[01:26:25] <SMCollins> I think a nice feature, would be the ability to right click on a blank portion of the deskbar, and have it allow you to get to deskbar prefrences.[01:26:51] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, Deskbar preferences is available in the leaf menu[01:27:00] <SMCollins> I understand that[01:27:26] <Skipp_OSX> It is also available in Preferences[01:27:27] <SMCollins> theres a whole world of PC users who are used to being able to do things that way however[01:27:29] *** orbital_fox has quit IRC[01:28:17] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, I guess you could do that... maybe just if you right clicked on the leaf[01:29:03] <Skipp_OSX> or the slider bar, since the clock and replicants have there own right click menus, and the apps work like a menu[01:29:05] <SMCollins> its indirect[01:29:21] <Skipp_OSX> errr I mean drag bar[01:29:41] <Skipp_OSX> Whatever, I added tooltips, be happy :)[01:30:01] * SMCollins is happy about tool tips[01:30:01] <jayrulez> Skipp_OSX: Reading your explanation again, I realise my question was answered :)[01:31:34] <jayrulez> Skipp_OSX you are http://jscipione.tumblr.com/ ?[01:32:27] <Skipp_OSX> yeah[01:32:56] <jayrulez> Man you rock :)[01:33:31] <jayrulez> You have been doing awesome refinements as I c on your blog[01:34:54] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, thanks, I recently put up screenshots I've been collecting over the years there. I've made a change or 2...[01:36:00] <jayrulez> Okay. Do you think having a dropdown menu for deskbar positioning would be a good idea?[01:36:43] *** mmadia has quit IRC[01:36:59] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, I think it would be a bad idea... I am okay with just the dragger, in fact, I think the less preferences we can get away with not having there the better.[01:37:57] <Skipp_OSX> The feature is a bit hidden I'll admit, and I am okay with that. Changing Deskbar's position is not something a normal user should really care too much about.[01:39:13] <SMCollins> the first thing I do on a new boot is move the deskbar[01:39:32] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, well, we all have our preferences...[01:39:48] <SMCollins> I've noticed lots of screen shots with the desbar being top/bottom[01:40:01] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, I see that you like horizontal mode with no labels and bigger icons[01:41:36] <Skipp_OSX> I guess a drop down in the preferences under the window section wouldn't be so bad, it would make the feature more discoverable[01:42:04] <Skipp_OSX> especially if you never noticed the dragger and changed it on accident[01:42:19] <SMCollins> yes, horizontal with no labels and bigger icons[01:42:28] <SMCollins> sort of windows 7 ish[01:42:38] <jayrulez> I only noticed the dragger when I watched a video demo[01:43:23] <Skipp_OSX> I would like to add the ability to change the icon size without needing to go to preferences...[01:43:47] <SMCollins> right click deskbar prefrences[01:44:13] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, well, yeah, but, I mean, even with that I would like a way to do it without going to preferences at all[01:44:50] <SMCollins> well, thats going to be very difficult given the limitations of key/mouse behavior with easy discoverability[01:44:55] <Skipp_OSX> maybe holding down a key combo and dragging... maybe ctrl+alt+right-click drag kind of like how you can resize a regular window...[01:45:29] <SMCollins> key combos are nice, but they require a learning curve.[01:45:39] <SMCollins> I prefer everything to be navigiable with the mouse[01:45:41] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, well, it wouldn't necessarily be discoverable, and that's okay, it would be in the preferences too.[01:46:34] <Skipp_OSX> maybe right click and drag the dragger to change the icon size, left click to move like now.[01:46:43] <jayrulez> I think right click on th leaf menu is intuitive[01:46:50] <jayrulez> for deskbar preferences[01:47:23] <SMCollins> actually, most "windows pc users" are fiarly trained to right click on blank portions of the "taskbar" to get to prefrences, this seems like a natural convention for many users[01:47:25] <SMCollins> imho[01:47:36] <Skipp_OSX> okay, I'll put those items on my todo list for Deskbar, right click Leaf to goto preferences, add position drop down to preference window, right click drag to change icon size[01:48:12] <jayrulez> Skipp_OSX if you have windows < 8 available, you can right click on the start button and see properties[01:49:01] <Skipp_OSX> I've got a Win7 VM here[01:49:33] <jayrulez> I'm looking at XP[01:49:34] * SMCollins throws up in mouth at thought of metro ui[01:49:39] <jayrulez> not so sure how 7 looks[01:50:00] <Skipp_OSX> 7 < 8 so it better work :)[01:50:59] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[01:51:41] <Skipp_OSX> yeah, it does, you can also open a Windows Explorer window for some reason...[01:51:44] <SMCollins> Windows 8 will be very disruptive to windows desktop users, now is the time to grab some market share from Microsoft imho, its going to be worse then Vista by a mile[01:52:13] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, haha, Linux people have been saying that for every release of Windows since 98, don't count on it.[01:52:33] <SMCollins> Skipp_OSX: you can get a explorer windows from nearly anywhere in the system[01:52:57] <SMCollins> Skipp_OSX: this is the first time MS has significatnyl changed the ui in a detrimental way[01:53:22] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, I think you are overreacting here, as is the trade press[01:53:38] <SMCollins> I think I have read the user feedback, people hat eht emetro desktop ui[01:53:40] <Skipp_OSX> Metro is new, you can still run boring old Windows with a few differences[01:54:11] <SMCollins> yeah, but MS is doing something stupid, "bussiness wise"[01:54:21] <Skipp_OSX> what else is new?[01:54:24] <SMCollins> theres a chance for Apple to grab some market share[01:54:49] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, Apple might grab a bit, but I imagine it will stay more or less the same as now.[01:55:06] <jayrulez> Adding another section under deskbar preferences for position might make it a bit crowded, would it make sense to use tabs?[01:55:17] <SMCollins> Apples been gaining ground every quarter for 5 years in a row, slowly but surely its becoming a less MS based office space[01:55:40] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez, I figure it could go under the Window section which makes sense and there is room.[01:55:54] <SMCollins> My personal opinion is that MS should drop the OS business altogether and just make good applications, they only make money on the office product and developer tools anyways as it is[01:56:16] * SMCollins owns MS shares[01:56:38] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, why, they make a lot of money on Windows, plus keeping the platform keeps lock-in[01:57:06] <SMCollins> nah, they loose money on the OS actually[01:57:17] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, I doubt that highly[01:57:32] <SMCollins> don;t doubt it a bit, its become a product that seels a office suite[01:57:41] <Skipp_OSX> Windows costs somewhere between $150 and $300 retail,[01:58:02] <SMCollins> makes up a tiny fraction of the sales though[01:58:10] <Skipp_OSX> OEM is with volume licensing they make less but there are many more sales.[01:58:17] <Skipp_OSX> Still, they don't lose money on Windows[01:58:45] <SMCollins> actually, lots of OEM's get paid to put trial software on PC's, so most copys with the buy back programs for office product etc actually wind up making money for the PC builder[01:59:11] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, yeah, but Microsoft doesn't get that money[01:59:36] <Skipp_OSX> but they get the money for windows which is ~$50-$100 per PC sold[01:59:42] <SMCollins> Lets put it this way, the OS doesn;t make any money, and some years its revenue negative, Server OS versions, database software, support for the IT industry, etc. Thats where MS makes its money, its in the financial statements[01:59:54] <Skipp_OSX> $50-$100 for every PC sold is a lot of money[01:59:56] <SMCollins> Skipp bulk liscense cost is like $25 a unit tops[02:00:32] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, even if that is true, and I don't think it is, that is still a good chunk of change[02:00:46] <SMCollins> Thats why its so hard to Linux to propogate on desktop,s the PC builders with the trial ware usually wind up in a net positive income situation per PC sold[02:00:48] *** redblue has quit IRC[02:01:05] <SMCollins> Have you looked at the development costs of Windows ? its huge[02:01:21] <Skipp_OSX> undoubtably, but they don't lose money[02:01:50] <Skipp_OSX> Office is around $100 for student edition, they don't lose money on that, and that is sold in much smaller volumes compared to Windows[02:01:54] <SMCollins> They loose money on the os "its mostly revenue nuetral" but they make money on the productivity applications, server editions etc[02:02:44] <Skipp_OSX> even if that were true, and I don't think it is, the lock in of Windows allows them to sell Office, Visual Studio, SharePoint, MS SQL, etc. etc.[02:03:08] <SMCollins> yes, but those tools can exist outside of the OS[02:03:21] <Skipp_OSX> And to stop developing Windows would mean that those softwares would need to compete with comparable software on other platforms.[02:04:11] <SMCollins> nah, theres really no competition for microsoft office, it really is the best office suite on the planet[02:04:11] <Skipp_OSX> meaning Visual studio would compete with Xcode, MS SQL would compete with Oracle, right now, it doesn't. It lives in an ecosystem of it's own[02:04:34] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, office is the one exception, and that's why it is available off Windows, it really has no competition.[02:04:55] <SMCollins> Visual Studio could work with any platform in reality[02:05:25] <SMCollins> actually, every product they offer could easily work on any platform, it seems silly for them to keep footing the massive development bill honestly.[02:05:26] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, yeah, but, nobody wants Visual Studio. They want to develop software on Windows to make $$. So, the only choice is VS[02:05:47] <Skipp_OSX> If there were other choices, people would switch to them[02:05:57] <SMCollins> everyone wants visual studio, programmers select it hands down over every other tool in the market, and theres plenty of those tools for windows platform[02:06:19] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, I'll admit that it is probably the best IDE on Windows[02:06:25] <SMCollins> I have been told by no less then a dozen developers, if Haiku had a visual studio equvilanet, they would make apps for haiku tommorow[02:06:57] <Skipp_OSX> Well, obviously Haiku doesn't have such an IDE, Paladin is what we've got, and it is good but no VS[02:07:12] <SMCollins> VS is a fantastic IDE, its pricey, but its good. Thats the thing that keeps microsoft leading, However the QT dev tools are pretty damned good to[02:07:40] <SMCollins> QT dev tools ain't VS, but they are catching up[02:07:42] <Skipp_OSX> yeah but the point is that it is Windows only, and that is on purpose, for lock in.[02:07:55] <Skipp_OSX> Get people hooked on VS, they'll develop on Windows only[02:08:06] *** paul0 has quit IRC[02:08:22] <SMCollins> I'm telling you, the lock in myth is a myth, the created the OS as a platform, becuase no other platform really existed that had all the attributes microsoft needed.[02:08:27] <Skipp_OSX> Which makes more software for Windows, which sells more Windows licenses to run that software.[02:08:50] <SMCollins> #1 project for Haiku dev team, should be creating a IDE comparable to VS[02:08:57] <Skipp_OSX> Amiga, OS/2, MacOS, there were options[02:08:59] <SMCollins> or superior to[02:09:17] <SMCollins> none that worked on x86, and we know the wintel name didn;t come from nothing[02:09:26] <Skipp_OSX> well, OS/2 did[02:09:38] <SMCollins> yeah, but ibm shot themselves in the foot with that[02:09:41] <Skipp_OSX> but we all know what happened there, IBM sucks[02:10:11] <Skipp_OSX> okay, true, but, I think that is just as true today as it was then, Microsoft needs Windows still[02:10:15] <SMCollins> if GLS was actually savy, he would he found a way to work with MS, not compete with it[02:10:57] <Skipp_OSX> IBM just isn't setup to be a software company... they are good at what they do but Consumer OS's is not it.[02:11:01] *** Smartnow has joined #haiku[02:11:07] <SMCollins> Well, Microsoft needs windows now do to the massive legacy support, but they plan to break allot of it with windows 8[02:11:23] *** redblue has joined #haiku[02:11:26] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, well, yes and no, break for who?[02:11:43] <Skipp_OSX> for developers it will break, for users you can keep on using your Windows 3.11 apps just fine.[02:11:48] <SMCollins> well, they will break the old win32 api afaik, and emulate a bunch of stuff for legacy apps[02:12:04] <Skipp_OSX> nope, Win32 is still there, but WinRT is the new stuff.[02:12:35] <Skipp_OSX> except on Windows RT which only runs on ARM... but that is reasonable.[02:12:42] <SMCollins> yeah, but they want to kill win32 asap[02:12:49] <Skipp_OSX> You can't run your win3.11 apps on ARM sorry[02:13:09] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, for developers they do, for users I imagine it will exist for a long long time.[02:13:15] <SMCollins> darn, and I really needed to run those win3.11 apps. Funny as it is. I have a machine that is EOL with win xp[02:13:32] <SMCollins> no where to go without spending a fortune[02:14:49] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[02:15:44] <Skipp_OSX> Haiku needs a lot of things, a VS class IDE amonst them.[02:16:00] <Skipp_OSX> although I hate VS so I am a bad judge there, prefer Xcode vastly[02:16:13] <SMCollins> that would be my biggest priority. App development only happens when quality tools exist to enable it to occur.[02:16:47] <Skipp_OSX> we do have Paladin...[02:17:09] <SMCollins> its what BeOS got wrong, had the focused on good IDE tools, we might be having a different conversation today, smarter marketing, better IDE and and and and a better marketing department with more partnerships, BeOS could have been a sucess[02:17:12] <Skipp_OSX> which could be extended to do a lot more stuff. But it has the basics[02:17:30] <SMCollins> have you looked at QT creator ?[02:30:40] <Skipp_OSX> no, I haven't[02:30:41] <Skipp_OSX> good?[02:31:31] *** bryan_w has joined #haiku[02:31:48] <Skipp_OSX> on Haiku I write apps the old fashion way, with a text editor an jam, but that isn't really something I would expect the average application developer to do.[02:32:27] <SMCollins> its fairly featured, when I look at it it reminds me of VS in a lot of ways[02:32:50] <SMCollins> funny thing is, theres a branch in the src tree for it[02:33:00] <SMCollins> http://qt.nokia.com/products/developer-tools/[02:35:57] <Skipp_OSX> I envy their doxygen Documentation[02:36:03] <SMCollins> ???[02:36:22] <Skipp_OSX> they have good docs, much better than we do... I've tried to replicate them, but, doxygen sucks[02:36:35] <Skipp_OSX> they forked doxygen, smart of them[02:36:44] <SMCollins> maybe grab their doxygen fork >[02:37:31] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins, thought about it, but, suprise, it is written in QT...[02:37:37] <SMCollins> ahhh[02:37:49] <SMCollins> well, there is that QT port[02:37:51] * SMCollins runs[02:38:24] <SMCollins> My wonderful task tonight is to remove a fake AV from my Godparents computers, ohhh the joy[02:38:55] <Skipp_OSX> wonderful for you[02:39:00] <SMCollins> oh the joy[02:39:09] <SMCollins> burnit now, why you no work[02:39:48] * SMCollins is tired of using terminal to burn cd's[02:39:49] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[02:39:55] <SMCollins> hey yourpalal[02:40:22] <yourpalal> hi![02:40:58] <yourpalal> I was hoping somebody in here might be able to shed some light on a problem I'm having.[02:41:39] <yourpalal> I've got Haiku in Virtualbox on Win7, and whenever I try to 'git push' to github (or bitbucket), it dies during the uploading phase :([02:41:53] <yourpalal> with the message 'Write failed: Socket is not connected'[02:42:03] <yourpalal> has anyone else seen this?[02:42:03] <Skipp_OSX> yourpalal, hmmmm, are you sure origin is github?[02:42:16] <yourpalal> no, I'm pushing to a named remote[02:42:17] <Skipp_OSX> yourpalal, I've used github before, not with Haiku, and pushed fine[02:42:26] <yourpalal> yeah it used to be working[02:42:29] <Skipp_OSX> hmmm, okay, well that should work[02:42:56] <yourpalal> I'm not sure if it was an upgrade to Haiku that did it (I did upgrade) or me fooling around with the network devices in another VM[02:43:17] <yourpalal> frankly, neither one makes a ton of sense[02:43:32] <yourpalal> the weird thing is I can still ping github[02:43:48] <yourpalal> and some amount of data is getting uploaded before it cuts out[02:43:49] <Skipp_OSX> yourpalal, I just pushed to github on Mac OS X and it worked[02:43:55] *** redblue has quit IRC[02:44:29] <Skipp_OSX> yourpalal, you could try bridge network mode instead of nat... that sometimes helps[02:44:32] <yourpalal> yeah it's been happening for a while now, I think it's not a github problem[02:44:36] <yourpalal> sure, I'll try that[02:45:27] <Skipp_OSX> sorry, other than that, I don't really know, git works on Haiku, github works on not Haiku, so the 2 together must be the problem, or it is the VM...[02:45:43] <Skipp_OSX> try bridged mode, I'll bbiab[02:46:07] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[02:46:18] <yourpalal> ok, cool[02:46:23] <yourpalal> trying bridged mode now[02:47:20] <yourpalal> looks like it might be working....[02:48:06] * yourpalal is cautiously optimistic[02:49:47] *** hamishm has quit IRC[02:52:36] * SMCollins hopes this windows pc boots after removing all the infections[02:53:52] <yourpalal> yaaaaaay it worked![02:53:59] <yourpalal> thanks Skipp_OSX![03:00:45] *** redblue has joined #haiku[03:06:17] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[03:10:13] *** dr_evil_ has quit IRC[03:12:14] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[03:13:28] *** nsuperbus has quit IRC[03:14:34] *** oco2 has quit IRC[03:19:55] *** GridCube has joined #haiku[03:24:10] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[03:24:16] <Skipp_OSX> yourpalal: any luck?[03:29:36] <SMCollins> <yourpalal> yaaaaaay it worked![03:29:36] <SMCollins> <yourpalal> thanks Skipp_OSX![03:30:11] <Skipp_OSX> :)[03:30:47] <SMCollins> did you glance at QT creator ?[03:31:03] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins: anyway, tell your God-parents to goto www.apple.com/store and buy a computer with an OS that isn't suceptable to that kind of virus[03:31:29] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins: I have not, I'm sure it is wonderful though[03:31:40] <SMCollins> Skipp_OSX: I am tempted to install linux on it, if farmville worked on Haiku, I could convert them tommorow[03:32:08] <SMCollins> I was toying with Niue "spelling" looks promising[03:34:58] <jayrulez> SMCollins Qt Creator vs CodeBlocks?[03:36:06] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins: I've seen it, interesting idea[03:48:50] <Skipp_OSX> I wonder what darkwyrm has been up to lately, haven't seen him around[03:54:23] *** P4R4N01D has quit IRC[04:02:18] *** P4R4N01D has joined #haiku[04:06:14] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[04:12:56] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[04:20:20] *** Barrett has quit IRC[04:30:49] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #haiku[04:47:47] * JonathanThompson poits helf in greetings[04:58:55] <Xeon3D> hi all :)[05:00:07] * JonathanThompson runs[05:04:09] <Skipp_OSX> hello[05:14:25] <SMCollins> jayrulez: QtCreator has the gui builder utilitys, plus all the other stuff. the one I find interesting is illumination Software "Brian Lunduke" that looks interesting.[05:15:21] *** GridCube has left #haiku[05:23:00] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[05:38:05] <SMCollins> night all[05:38:08] *** SMCollins has quit IRC[05:58:13] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[06:14:16] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[06:17:50] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[06:48:46] <CIA-37> looncraz-github.compositing: looncraz-github * 210b7c49ad0e1e483600b6a1298b4e4545b9deea :[06:48:46] <CIA-37> BCompositeOverlay initialization[06:48:46] <CIA-37> app_server now handles initialization of BCompositeOverlay's server-side counter-part and the PortLink is initiated (I'm guessing properly).[06:48:46] <CIA-37> Still have to manage the remainder of the life cycle...[06:48:46] <CIA-37> PS: if you're wondering why all this work is going into a client version of CompositeOverlay, it is because I have no intentions on making even more app_server[06:48:47] <CIA-37> add-ons. It is my desire that a special server with frame-buffer access will be used to house user decorators, overlays, and effects. As in an app_addon_server.[06:54:55] *** bryan_w has quit IRC[06:59:43] *** Xeon3D is now known as Xeon3D|Zzz[07:10:37] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC[07:11:21] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[07:16:56] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[07:34:18] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[07:36:02] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[07:41:42] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[07:47:39] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku[07:57:21] *** fhein has joined #haiku[07:57:21] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[07:58:04] *** Kernel86 has joined #haiku[08:05:30] *** nsuperbus has joined #haiku[08:07:31] *** PasNox has quit IRC[08:07:40] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[08:07:47] <Skipp_OSX> whoa, kernel panic...[08:07:51] <Skipp_OSX> that sucked[08:10:00] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[08:10:03] *** MatthewH12 has quit IRC[08:14:14] *** dr_evil_ has joined #haiku[08:18:20] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[08:24:17] *** yourpalal has left #haiku[08:29:18] *** PasNox has quit IRC[08:31:36] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[08:35:01] *** [r4] has quit IRC[08:55:48] *** synchris has joined #haiku[09:07:38] <arfunzu> morning all[09:10:01] <sl_> afternoon[09:10:31] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[09:20:08] *** fhein has quit IRC[09:20:12] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[09:20:20] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[09:24:25] *** Smartnow has quit IRC[09:25:10] *** J-Ho has joined #haiku[09:48:18] *** swarfega|away is now known as swarfega[09:48:43] <CIA-37> looncraz-github.compositing: looncraz-github * 0ee45e00ddfbc5aacf4a9b6707f53ef22ed996b6 :[09:48:43] <CIA-37> CompositeOvelay lifecycle & CompositeEngine as DesktopListener[09:48:43] <CIA-37> CompositeOverlay should now be born and die more or less adequetely - haven't tested it yet...[09:48:43] <CIA-37> I realized DesktopListener would be useful some time ago, but finally decided to do something about it as I found myself duplicating efforts... tsk tsk...[10:10:46] *** Hubert_ has joined #haiku[10:15:05] *** jstressman1 has joined #haiku[10:17:13] *** synchris has quit IRC[10:18:13] *** dreamed_ has joined #haiku[10:20:56] *** jstressman has quit IRC[10:20:56] *** dreamed has quit IRC[10:39:48] *** Hubert_ has quit IRC[10:44:14] *** Hubert_ has joined #haiku[10:57:38] *** dreamed_ is now known as dreamed[11:00:17] *** luko has joined #haiku[11:11:22] *** synchris has joined #haiku[11:34:55] *** luko has joined #haiku[11:56:38] *** luko has quit IRC[12:00:18] *** tr-808 has quit IRC[12:06:25] *** ab5tract has quit IRC[12:10:05] *** tr-808 has joined #haiku[12:19:54] *** ab5tract has joined #haiku[12:40:12] *** Huggy has joined #haiku[13:01:28] *** david0xffea has joined #haiku[13:06:52] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[13:08:02] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[13:10:28] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[13:13:08] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[13:13:20] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[13:18:54] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[13:30:37] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[13:30:40] *** kcj has quit IRC[13:31:10] *** aphedox has joined #haiku[13:35:11] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[13:37:11] *** hamishm has joined #haiku[14:00:23] <arfunzu> What is the proper way to convert an .SVG into a form that I can attach to a file in Haiku? I can open the SVG in Icon-o-matic, save it as its own format. When I export this as RDEF it errors out.[14:13:57] *** negusnyul has joined #haiku[14:15:03] *** adb has quit IRC[14:17:52] *** pdziepak has joined #haiku[14:19:51] *** Smartnow has joined #haiku[14:35:06] *** iMe has joined #haiku[14:48:06] *** Premislaus has joined #haiku[14:48:13] <Premislaus> hi[14:48:16] *** iMe has quit IRC[14:51:06] <arfunzu> hey Premislaus[14:51:37] <Premislaus> how are you?[14:52:55] <arfunzu> Good, just trying to make it through another work day. You?[14:54:01] <Premislaus> "Delayed onset muscle soreness "[14:55:44] <Premislaus> Today I am free and relax[14:58:57] *** yongcong has joined #haiku[15:00:19] <arfunzu> excellent[15:00:25] <arfunzu> wish i could say the same![15:05:03] <Premislaus> yongcong You plan to implement the fully ACPI standard?[15:05:27] <yongcong> Premislaus: no[15:05:33] <Premislaus> :-([15:05:56] <yongcong> what I just want to do is get c-state from acpi[15:06:12] <yongcong> then enter c-state via. acpi[15:06:29] <Premislaus> ok :)[15:06:29] <yongcong> it's one of the goals[15:06:31] <Premislaus> Your job is very useful[15:06:59] <yongcong> especially on laptop[15:07:04] <yongcong> ;)[15:07:33] <yongcong> my lab's destktop pc is powered by core i7[15:07:55] <Premislaus> Only Windows and FreeBSD have full ACPI support. Or so they say on Polish Wiki.[15:08:07] *** XenoDuck has joined #haiku[15:08:18] <yongcong> linux with cpuidle can save ~20w compared with the linux w/o cpuidle[15:09:12] <yongcong> IMHO, FreeBSD can't say full ACPI support[15:09:24] <yongcong> Linux is better than FreeBSD on acpi[15:10:25] <yongcong> But I dunno what's the power saved will be on haiku after my project is completed[15:10:40] <yongcong> I can't wait to benchmark it :P[15:10:50] <Premislaus> You agree with the Trovalds opinion about ACPI?[15:11:02] <Premislaus> "Modern PCs are horrible. ACPI is a complete design disaster in every way. But we're kind of stuck with it. If any Intel people are listening to this and you had anything to do with ACPI, shoot yourself now, before you reproduce."[15:11:14] <yongcong> Premislaus: yes[15:11:26] <yongcong> it's complecated[15:11:30] <Premislaus> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7279[15:12:11] <yongcong> FYI: only before the last minute, I decide to add acpi-cpuidle to one of my goals[15:12:22] <yongcong> the reason is complex ACPI[15:23:15] *** bryan_w has joined #haiku[15:24:28] <Premislaus> yongcong You are from China? At your university heard about Haiku?[15:26:16] <yongcong> Premislaus: yep[15:26:28] <yongcong> Shanghai, China[15:26:49] <yongcong> Nope. I heard about Haiku from absabs[15:27:03] <yongcong> who is the haiku gsoc2007 student[15:27:22] *** rjg has quit IRC[15:37:51] *** yongcong1 has joined #haiku[15:38:38] *** Premislaus has quit IRC[15:39:44] *** J-Ho has left #haiku[15:39:58] *** yongcong has quit IRC[15:40:18] *** yongcong1 is now known as yongcong[15:41:53] *** kieselsteini has joined #haiku[15:54:39] *** Hubert_ has quit IRC[15:58:55] *** Premislaus has joined #haiku[16:00:37] *** Premislaus has quit IRC[16:01:17] *** mitknil has joined #haiku[16:07:08] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[16:07:17] *** rjg has joined #haiku[16:11:03] *** Beretta021 has joined #haiku[16:13:27] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[16:14:25] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[16:23:16] *** Hubert_ has joined #haiku[16:24:52] *** kieselsteini has quit IRC[16:30:43] *** yongcong1 has joined #haiku[16:32:19] *** yongcong has quit IRC[16:37:05] *** synchris has quit IRC[16:38:54] *** jstressman1 is now known as jstressman[16:40:32] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[16:43:01] <mmu_man> plop[16:43:48] <yongcong1> plop[16:43:55] *** yongcong1 is now known as yongcong[16:45:20] <mmu_man> just got confirmation for the Haiku talk at RMLL :)[16:48:28] *** duvjones has joined #haiku[16:51:30] <yongcong> mmu_man: what's RMLL?[16:52:39] *** XenoDuck has quit IRC[16:54:23] *** bvarner has joined #haiku[16:57:06] <mmu_man> http://2012.rmll.info/[16:57:11] <mmu_man> Libre Software Meeting[16:57:16] *** Barrett has quit IRC[16:59:13] <yongcong> seems an interesting chance for haiku[17:02:20] * yongcong fly[17:03:41] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[17:04:45] <arfunzu> hm, has anyone noticed rsync or scp transfers stalling after a few megs?[17:05:09] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[17:07:29] <mmu_man> yongcong: we usually have a booth there and a talk[17:07:39] <yongcong> ;)[17:07:52] <mmu_man> yes it's really interesting, lot of nice people to meet and newcomers[17:12:41] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[17:19:16] *** dcase has joined #haiku[17:25:51] *** Premislaus has joined #haiku[17:27:36] <Premislaus> diver_ http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/8295#comment:8[17:28:44] *** arfunzu has quit IRC[17:30:54] *** arfunzu has joined #haiku[17:31:48] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[17:36:23] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[17:38:16] <yongcong> Premislaus: does this bug still exsit on latest nightly build?[17:38:34] <Premislaus> hrev 44061[17:42:00] <Premislaus> check 44069? but there was probably nothing that could be affected[17:42:03] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[17:43:06] <yongcong> hmm, then it's not amd c1e issue[17:43:31] <yongcong> probably another acpi bug[17:43:46] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[17:44:44] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[17:46:44] *** GridCube has joined #haiku[17:59:18] *** synchris has joined #haiku[18:04:57] *** fhein has joined #haiku[18:06:49] <Premislaus> when i run KDL - right alt+sysrq+d, and type the syslog, how do I save it to disk, or on the phone( is like mass storage, usb)?[18:10:04] *** luroh has joined #haiku[18:10:56] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[18:18:32] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[18:23:46] *** yongcong has quit IRC[18:23:46] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku[18:26:49] *** [r4] has quit IRC[18:36:32] *** idefix_gromit has joined #haiku[18:37:47] *** luko has joined #haiku[18:39:39] *** david0xffea has quit IRC[18:45:45] <Dane__> Can someone tell me of a currently-made sound card that works with Haiku (not motherboard-based)?[18:45:53] <Dane__> Either PCI or PCI-E?[18:46:55] *** iMe has joined #haiku[18:48:22] <diver_> Dane__: http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/tree/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/audio[18:48:58] <Dane__> looking[18:49:00] <Dane__> thanks[18:49:10] <Dane__> Think I've been there but will check again[18:49:13] <luroh> creative still sell their audigy cards, don't they?[18:49:55] <Dane__> luroh do they?[18:49:58] <Dane__> I should check that[18:50:52] *** spaso has joined #haiku[18:51:51] <Dane__> Still listed in their current product offereings, luroh thanks for that![18:51:54] <Dane__> offerings[18:52:00] <luroh> cool[18:53:13] <saivert> emuxki nice[18:53:54] <spaso> After compiling for more than 10 hours I finnaly got qt working on haiku[18:54:13] <Dane__> spaso qt (quicktime?)[18:54:22] <Dane__> saivert yes![18:54:26] <spaso> qt sdk platform from nokia[18:54:34] * Dane__ will order and try one[18:55:01] <saivert> I actually have Audigy2 PCI card lying around here somewhere[18:55:11] <saivert> but I use the Asus Xonar Essence STX now[18:55:26] <Dane__> saivert Is that mobo based?[18:55:32] <saivert> separate card[18:55:37] <Dane__> really?![18:55:38] <Dane__> Cool[18:55:41] <Dane__> PCIE or PCI?[18:55:48] <saivert> PCIe[18:56:03] <saivert> 1x slot[18:56:09] <saivert> it has a PCI variant too[18:56:19] <Dane__> saivert are they still made?[18:56:19] <saivert> called the Essence ST[18:56:56] <saivert> but there is no Haiku driver for the Essence card[18:57:01] <saivert> so who cares[18:57:20] <Dane__> saivert what are you talking about then?[18:57:39] <Dane__> The Asus Xonar Essence STX you mentioned, is that for Windows or something?[18:57:46] <saivert> windows, linux[18:57:49] <Dane__> k[18:57:50] <Dane__> hehe[18:57:55] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[18:58:01] <Dane__> got me all excited for nothing...dang :-)[18:58:20] <saivert> well if someone ports the Linux driver for the chipset... dam da dam..[18:58:39] <Dane__> wow, that's not a cheap sound card is it?![18:58:45] <saivert> no[18:58:47] <Dane__> Over $200![18:59:10] <saivert> well most people are satisfied with on-board audio. you are in the realm of separate card for audio so why not?[18:59:33] <Dane__> I am in the realm of a separate audio card for Haiku :-)[18:59:51] <saivert> yes that is even more special[19:00:57] <Dane__> Emuxki Audio Driver for Creative Labs SBLive!/Audigy series supports the following hardware and revisions:[19:00:58] <Dane__> Creative Labs SoundBlaster, Audigy 1 & 2 driver[19:00:59] <Dane__> Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live, SBLIVE (0x0002)[19:00:59] <Dane__> Creative Labs Audigy and Audigy 2, AUDIGY (0x0004)[19:01:00] <Dane__> Creative Labs Audigy 2 Value, AUDIGY2 (0x0008)[19:01:37] <Dane__> Wonder if any of those apply to this one: http://us.store.creative.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-Audigy-SE-PCI/M/B000LP0R3E.htm[19:03:49] <luroh> it should, looks like it has the same controller as the audigy value[19:04:11] <Dane__> excellent[19:04:26] * Dane__ orders one[19:04:52] <luroh> Dane__: wait[19:04:55] *** bryan_w has quit IRC[19:05:08] <luroh> let me google some more :)[19:05:15] <Dane__> luroh thanks much[19:05:24] <saivert> Dane__: I got the Audigy 2 ZS, wonder if that is supported[19:05:47] <Dane__> saivert Easy enough to find out, if you are using Haiku on native hardware[19:05:50] *** Barrett has quit IRC[19:06:24] <saivert> is that driver part of the OS or do I need to compile it?[19:06:43] <saivert> I could easily just make a USB flash drive and run the live os[19:06:50] <saivert> with the card installed[19:06:56] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[19:08:11] *** yourpalal has left #haiku[19:09:14] <luroh> Dane__: looks like it actually is not supported :([19:09:21] <Dane__> drat!![19:09:48] <Dane__> luroh what makes you conclude that?[19:09:51] <Dane__> Chipset on it?[19:09:57] <luroh> the controller is CA-0106, which is not supported by the emuxki driver[19:10:03] <Dane__> oh ok[19:10:08] <Dane__> double drat :-)[19:10:14] <luroh> according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Audigy#Sound_Blaster_Audigy_SE_.26_Audigy_Value[19:10:26] <Dane__> good job researching, you saved me some money luroh[19:10:33] * Dane__ wonders if there are any AC97-based PCI cards[19:11:12] <Dane__> ah, there are[19:11:22] <saivert> CA-0102-ICT on mine[19:11:32] <saivert> printed on the chip[19:11:54] <Dane__> saivert We're talking about Haiku-compatible stuff ATM[19:12:00] <saivert> (C)Creative Tech '01 whoaw. that old[19:12:15] <saivert> yes but is this card compatible?[19:12:19] <saivert> I don't know[19:12:24] <luroh> yeah, the CA-0102 should be supported in emuxki[19:12:26] <saivert> I could ebay it to you[19:12:33] <saivert> if it is difficult to get hold of such cards[19:12:35] <luroh> it's what i have on my audigy2[19:12:52] <Dane__> saivert If it is difficult to get, that wouldn't be a good choice for my situation[19:12:55] <Dane__> But thanks.[19:12:59] * Dane__ found this...[19:13:02] <Dane__> StarTech.com 4 Channel Low Profile PCI Sound Adapter Card AC97[19:13:17] <Dane__> Works with AC97 driver[19:13:18] <saivert> so you need something that is still being manufactured and will be for years? good luck[19:13:23] <saivert> products are dropped all the time[19:13:45] <Dane__> saivert It's a crapshoot, I know.[19:14:36] *** iMe has quit IRC[19:15:03] <saivert> whoaw that startrek card really is small too[19:15:18] <saivert> almost like some 100Mbit network cards I had in the past[19:16:52] *** PasNox has quit IRC[19:17:07] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[19:17:28] <luroh> Dane__: perhaps it would still be worth ordering that Auigy SE, wikipedia says it has the same controller as Soundblaster Live, which should be supported in Haiku[19:18:06] <spaso> Does Haiku natively support Sound Blaster CT5803 or CT4810 ?[19:18:35] <Dane__> spaso BeOS does.[19:18:42] <Dane__> I have had less than good experience so far[19:18:45] <Dane__> with Haiku[19:18:46] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[19:19:35] *** GridCube has left #haiku[19:20:24] <Dane__> luroh I'll get one to try it[19:20:35] <Dane__> luroh hey, what do you think of this one?[19:20:37] <Dane__> http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Channel-Profile-Adapter-PCISOUND4LP/dp/B001D767GA[19:20:43] <Dane__> Says it's AC97 based[19:21:05] <luroh> probably the only way to find out for sure, creative's naming schemes are...creative.[19:21:11] <luroh> *looking*[19:22:20] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[19:22:41] <luroh> heh, not much data to work with there either[19:22:51] <Dane__> no, other than the right chipset[19:23:01] <luroh> yup[19:23:12] <Dane__> Just a shot in the dark then[19:23:14] <Dane__> k[19:23:31] <luroh> yeah, think so[19:24:03] <luroh> CMI8738/PCI-SX[19:24:07] <Dane__> yep[19:24:15] <Dane__> Got one of those...didn't work with Haiku here[19:24:45] <luroh> ah[19:25:03] <Dane__> don't know if it was an "SX" version though[19:25:09] <Dane__> Think there'd be a difference?[19:25:18] <luroh> that's the chipset of the startech.com card, according to newegg[19:25:35] <Dane__> oh really? that's 8738 based[19:25:37] <Dane__> huh![19:25:40] <luroh> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829128005[19:25:49] <Dane__> Wonder why they call it AC97 on Startech's site?[19:25:51] <Dane__> reading[19:27:27] *** alexandros_c has quit IRC[19:27:27] <Dane__> luroh The only thing on that page that i see has 8738 chipset is a Rosewill card listing at the bottom[19:27:36] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[19:28:56] <luroh> hm? look in the 'Details' tab, in 'Audio core' section[19:29:07] <Dane__> ah sure enough[19:29:13] <Dane__> The model of the card is PCISOUND4LP[19:29:19] <luroh> right[19:29:29] <Dane__> That, on the Startech site, is described as AC97[19:29:36] <Dane__> Maybe I'm mixing apples and oranges though[19:29:54] <luroh> i think so, AC97 is just a standard, i think[19:30:00] <Dane__> k[19:30:23] <Dane__> Well if it's AC97 standard and 8738 chipset, that's all considered supported theoretically.[19:31:28] <luroh> i'm not so sure, maybe the various AC97-compliant chipsets still need their own vendor-specific initializing and whatnot[19:31:45] * Dane__ 's head hurts :-)[19:31:53] <luroh> wish i knew more about these things[19:32:01] <Dane__> you and me both, bro![19:32:34] *** jua_ has quit IRC[19:33:53] *** jua_ has joined #haiku[19:36:06] *** wry has joined #haiku[19:36:22] <Dane__> luroh Here is an interesting one...[19:36:50] <Dane__> They say it is "Fully Sound Blaster, Sound Blaster Pro compatible and Direct Sound compatible Connector"[19:37:13] <luroh> "connector"? :)[19:37:31] <Dane__> hmm[19:37:35] <Dane__> didn't notice that[19:38:05] <Dane__> Well, up above it says:[19:38:08] <Dane__> Software Compatibility:[19:38:08] <Dane__> - Fully Sound Blaster, Sound Blaster Pro compatible and Direct Sound[19:38:09] <Dane__> compatible[19:38:12] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[19:39:12] * luroh is eyeballing http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829180005[19:39:37] <Dane__> looking[19:39:47] <spaso> It would be nice if someone ported audio architecture from linux, so it would work on most ocmpu[19:39:52] <spaso> *most computers[19:40:09] <Dane__> luroh VIA VT1723 chipset[19:40:23] <luroh> yeah, i'm trying to see if that's supported[19:40:31] <luroh> natively, i mean[19:40:33] *** jstressman has quit IRC[19:40:52] <Dane__> right[19:41:04] <luroh> i wouldn't be surprised if OSS supports like the Audigy SE, btw[19:41:19] <luroh> supports cards like*[19:42:35] <Dane__> From what I've read, OSS is kind of a nightmare ... not too many positive posts about it. But maybe it's better since I last read about it.[19:43:42] *** idefix_gromit has left #haiku[19:44:33] *** pdziepak_ has joined #haiku[19:45:01] *** pdziepak has quit IRC[19:45:09] *** pdziepak_ is now known as pdziepak[19:45:48] <luroh> yeah. the via card seems to be another dead end[19:45:55] <Dane__> luroh roger that[19:46:09] * Dane__ ordered one of those SB compatible little PCI cards and will try that[19:46:10] *** jstressman has joined #haiku[19:46:41] <luroh> wasn't that a used one?[19:46:53] <Dane__> luroh Ah, maybe it was[19:47:06] <Dane__> Well, it'll tell me if they work anyway[19:47:25] <AlienSoldier> Dane__ i never good result with OSS, but as i know some say it's OK, it may be related to the priority inversion problem and single cpu system. That is something that would need to be tested[19:47:37] <luroh> yeah, i'm just wouldn't count on it still being in production[19:47:42] <luroh> i*[19:47:43] <Dane__> luroh Point taken[19:48:08] <Dane__> AlienSoldier I should probably give it a serious testing before I dismiss it as unworthy, true![19:49:26] <AlienSoldier> Dane__ do you have a dual core machine?[19:49:31] <Dane__> 3 core[19:49:35] <Dane__> AM3[19:50:00] <AlienSoldier> then it may work better than me (just a P4)[19:50:11] <Dane__> AlienSoldier I'll give it a go[19:50:18] <Dane__> (after first doing a careful backup)[19:51:12] <AlienSoldier> here it was not working well, and when it started it was always several second after all was booted[19:52:44] *** spaso has left #haiku[19:53:12] <luko> i install on my intel atom D525MW (4 threads) windows xp after long time (i newer have windows on this pc) and its something incredible fast[19:53:27] <Dane__> luko nice[19:53:40] <luko> maybe i test haiku too[19:56:49] <luko> do you getting ubuntu / upgrading today?[19:59:06] *** mitknil has quit IRC[19:59:52] *** mitknil has joined #haiku[19:59:53] *** mitknil has joined #haiku[20:00:04] <luroh> luko: no, i'll be migrating to xubuntu this time but will hold off for a few more weeks, although 12.04 has been running fine in vbox here for some time[20:00:22] <luroh> i'm just too old for the front line[20:00:27] *** mitknil has quit IRC[20:00:40] *** mitknil has joined #haiku[20:01:33] <Dane__> luroh Can you think of a reason why an SB Live card wouldn't show up in Media Prefs in Haiku?[20:01:44] <Dane__> I've tried a couple of them but they just don't show up.[20:02:36] <luroh> Dane__: hm no, does 'listdev' list it?[20:02:45] <Dane__> luroh that's a good question[20:02:50] <Dane__> I'll pop the card back in and try that[20:02:58] <Dane__> luroh thanks for the suggestion[20:02:59] <Dane__> bbiab[20:03:00] *** Dane__ has quit IRC[20:03:51] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[20:04:32] *** spaso has joined #haiku[20:05:41] *** Cobi has joined #haiku[20:08:41] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[20:10:24] *** Dane_ has joined #haiku[20:10:45] <Dane_> luroh Interesting...I had forgotten what the problem was... (writing)[20:11:28] <Dane_> For some reason, with the SB Live in the mobo's only PCI slot, Haiku never finishes booting! It gets to a tan-colored screen with the hand-shaped mouse pointer centered on it, and stops.[20:11:38] <Dane_> As soon as I shut down and remove the card, we're back to OK again.[20:11:50] <Dane_> What could possibly cause that kind of reaction I wonder.[20:11:54] <Dane_> Something in BIOS?[20:13:16] <pulkomandy> the "PnP OS" setting in BIOS could help (either way, enable or disable it)[20:13:21] *** dozzer has joined #haiku[20:13:40] <pulkomandy> try to enter KDL and look at the interrupts command, to see if there are a lot of unhandled ones[20:13:42] <Dane_> pulkomandy I can check. Seems to me I had trouble finding it in this BIOS[20:13:55] <pulkomandy> maybe it isn't there anymore :/[20:14:01] <Dane_> pulkomandy How to you get to KDL?[20:14:09] <pulkomandy> alt + sysrq + d[20:14:33] <pulkomandy> if you have an usb keyboard, it might not work when the problem is with interrupts[20:14:46] <pulkomandy> ps/2 has a really high interrupt priority so that still works[20:15:38] *** Dane_ has quit IRC[20:16:05] <Premislaus> when i run KDL - right alt+sysrq+d, and type the syslog, how do I save it to disk, or on the phone( is like mass storage, usb)?[20:16:17] *** Dane_ has joined #haiku[20:16:21] <Dane_> re[20:16:27] <dozzer> Hey, I'm trying to get Haiku working om virtualbox with ubuntu 11.10 host. But I can get passed the "spalshscreen". Is there a way to see a verbal boot?[20:16:28] <Dane_> pulkomandy Never tried that before...interesting[20:16:28] <Skipp_OSX> does anybody know how I can get in contact with meanwhile?[20:16:46] <Dane_> pulkomandy In my case it did display a little kdl strip across the top, but it wasn't typable[20:16:52] <diver_> Premislaus: insert a usb thumb, type reboot in KDL and enter the bootloader[20:17:21] <pulkomandy> dozzer: press space or shift before the bootscreen shows, you'll get a menu where you can enable onscreen debug[20:17:30] <diver_> dozzer: Is this with A3 or with a nightly image?[20:17:49] * Dane_ thinks he needs to gather together a few intrepid souls who work together to test various hardware so we can know for sure what does actually work[20:17:59] <dozzer> A3 sorry. Okey, I'll try that ty.[20:18:10] *** spaso has quit IRC[20:18:22] <luroh> dozzer: see if this helps (the last item) https://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/R1/Alpha3/ReleaseAddendum[20:18:38] <Dane_> luroh Did you see my post above?[20:18:46] <Dane_> bizarre![20:18:50] <luroh> Dane_: yes, any luck since?[20:19:23] <Dane_> luroh No, I haven't come up with a way around it. I get a blank screen with mouse pointer when I have an SB live card in the PCI slot[20:19:31] <Dane_> It never finishes booting[20:19:36] <Dane_> (desktop never appears)[20:19:38] <luroh> and no PnP setting in BIOS, i presume[20:19:52] <Dane_> luroh Not that I know of...I had looked for it previously I think[20:20:22] <diver_> Dane_: is it with ps2 keyboard?[20:20:27] <Dane_> diver_ yes[20:21:15] <luroh> annoying stuff. like pulkomandy says, it could be due to an interrupt storm[20:21:21] <Dane_> distand by[20:21:23] <Dane_> on phone[20:22:12] <Dane_> rebooting[20:22:14] *** Dane_ has quit IRC[20:23:24] *** Premislaus has quit IRC[20:24:19] <dozzer> luroh: ty that worked :)[20:24:35] <luroh> great :)[20:25:09] <Skipp_OSX> what worked? I am confused[20:25:10] <Skipp_OSX> Nightly or PnP BIOS setting?[20:25:53] *** Barrett has quit IRC[20:25:55] <luroh> Skipp_OSX: enabling a serial port in vbox to get haiku to finish booting[20:26:07] <Skipp_OSX> ahh okay[20:26:40] <Skipp_OSX> well, I found meanwhile's email address, I hope it is still current[20:29:22] *** papasmurf has joined #haiku[20:30:59] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[20:31:11] *** papasmurf is now known as volci[20:33:14] *** volci is now known as papasmurf[20:35:19] *** dozzer has left #haiku[20:35:20] *** dcase has quit IRC[20:35:52] *** dozzer has joined #haiku[20:36:06] *** papasmurf is now known as volci[20:39:08] *** dozzer has left #haiku[20:43:44] *** dr_evil_ has quit IRC[20:51:38] *** Dane_ has joined #haiku[20:51:57] <Dane_> Does anyone know what happens in those final split seconds before Haiku displays the desktop?[20:52:17] <Skipp_OSX> Dane_, magic[20:52:27] <Dane_> There is a point where, for just a brief moment, Haiku displays a dark tan screen with centered mouse pointer, then the desktop appears[20:52:32] <Dane_> Skipp_OSX apparently yes :-)[20:52:35] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[20:52:48] <Dane_> It's during that time that my system jams when I have a SB Live card in the PCI slot[20:54:16] <Skipp_OSX> Dane_, I am imagining that there is an issue with PCI init or APCI or something[20:55:37] <Skipp_OSX> Dane_, I may actually have a SB Live! card at home somewhere I can test, but, I do not know anything about how to debug that sort of problem, sounds like maybe a bug report is in order[20:55:56] <Dane_> Skipp_OSX k[20:56:06] * Dane_ is going to have a look at the syslog too[20:56:21] <Skipp_OSX> that would be useful to include in the bug report if you can get to it.[20:56:28] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[20:56:30] <Dane_> k[20:57:12] <Dane_> rebooting to get cleaned out syslog with just most recent entries[20:57:14] *** Dane_ has quit IRC[20:58:49] <Skipp_OSX> it looks like perhaps media_server_addon is to blame...[21:00:02] <Skipp_OSX> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/7675[21:01:42] *** MatthewH12 has joined #haiku[21:02:55] *** Dane_ has joined #haiku[21:03:08] <Dane_> some very good hints in syslog I think[21:04:56] <Dane_> Skipp_OSX What sort of APIC messages would be signs of trouble (in syslog?)[21:07:30] <Skipp_OSX> Dane_, um, you know it when you see it.[21:08:37] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[21:09:28] <Dane_> Skipp_OSX Like this?[21:09:32] <Dane_> KERN: smp: found local APIC with id 3[21:09:33] <Dane_> KERN: smp: APIC is disabled and will not be used[21:10:07] <Skipp_OSX> Dane_, so, APIC is disabled... that might explain the failure...[21:10:17] <Dane_> What is APIC?[21:10:29] <Dane_> Wait a sec...[21:10:34] <Dane_> bear with me for five lines pasted...[21:10:39] <Dane_> KERN: smp: found local APIC with id 0[21:10:40] <Dane_> KERN: smp: found local APIC with id 1[21:10:41] <Dane_> KERN: smp: found local APIC with id 2[21:10:41] <Dane_> KERN: smp: found local APIC with id 3[21:10:42] <Dane_> KERN: smp: APIC is disabled and will not be used[21:10:46] <Skipp_OSX> Dane_, it auto-assigns IRQs to PCI devices[21:11:05] <Dane_> So it seems like the first three were OK, the fourth was not?[21:11:06] <Skipp_OSX> I am guessing those are 1 per CPU[21:11:11] <Dane_> ah[21:11:22] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[21:12:00] <Skipp_OSX> If your SB Live card is expecting APIC to assign it an IRQ and APIC is disabled... that could be the cause of your issue.[21:12:08] <Dane_> k[21:12:23] <Skipp_OSX> Dane_, might want to give your BIOS settings a look to see if APIC is disabled there for some reason[21:12:30] <Dane_> k[21:12:31] <Dane_> Thanks[21:12:35] <Dane_> rebooting[21:12:42] <Skipp_OSX> no problem[21:13:31] *** Dane_ has quit IRC[21:16:23] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[21:19:48] *** Dane_ has joined #haiku[21:19:57] <Skipp_OSX> Dane_, any luck?[21:20:18] <Dane_> Skipp_OSX sec[21:20:41] <Dane_> Skipp_OSX in safe mode, I can get this from listdev...[21:20:44] <Dane_> device Multimedia controller (Multimedia audio controller) [4|1|0][21:20:44] <Dane_> vendor 1102: Creative Labs[21:20:45] <Dane_> device 0002: SB Live! EMU10k1[21:20:49] <Dane_> So it sees it[21:21:10] <Skipp_OSX> yeah, looks good there[21:21:12] <Dane_> But in regular (non safe mode) I can't boot with it in[21:21:47] <Skipp_OSX> right, probably due to APCI being disabled in safe mode, but in normal mode it's not, and then runs into a problem[21:21:58] <Skipp_OSX> or something, idk[21:22:19] <Dane_> oops phone![21:22:20] <Dane_> ttyl[21:22:23] <Skipp_OSX> k[21:23:45] <luroh> Skipp_OSX: well, it could also be due to media_server and a bunch of other things not running in safe mode[21:24:11] <Skipp_OSX> true... like i said I suspect media_server_addon is the problem[21:24:17] <luroh> Dane_: what happens if you manually start media_server while in safe mode - does Haiku freeze?[21:24:36] <luroh> Skipp_OSX: yeah[21:31:29] <Dane_> re[21:31:58] <Dane_> luroh No it doesn't freeze (I tried what you said). But it doesn't find any audio hardware in Media Prefs.[21:32:55] <luroh> ah...perhaps OSS is worth a try then[21:36:37] *** P4R4N01D has quit IRC[21:36:58] <Dane_> luroh maybe so[21:37:55] *** PasNox has quit IRC[21:39:36] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[21:42:22] * Dane_ signing off for now[21:42:23] * Dane_ out[21:42:25] *** Dane_ has quit IRC[22:01:48] *** wry has quit IRC[22:03:40] *** wry has joined #haiku[22:14:02] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[22:18:10] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[22:23:28] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[22:33:24] *** luko has quit IRC[22:43:22] *** bvarner has quit IRC[22:45:12] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[22:47:31] *** tqh has joined #haiku[22:55:41] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[22:57:07] *** Premislaus has joined #haiku[22:57:31] <Premislaus> diver_: don't work[22:58:36] *** bbjimmy-at-home has joined #haiku[22:58:58] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[22:59:21] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[22:59:21] *** bbjimmy-at-home is now known as bbjimmy[23:00:04] *** pdziepak has quit IRC[23:06:38] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[23:06:58] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[23:07:35] *** synchris has quit IRC[23:08:38] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[23:10:56] *** luroh has quit IRC[23:14:17] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[23:17:10] *** petterhj has quit IRC[23:28:02] *** fhein has quit IRC[23:32:53] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[23:38:45] *** tr-808 has quit IRC[23:39:40] *** tr-808 has joined #haiku[23:41:59] *** BitPuffin has joined #haiku[23:42:16] *** Hubert_ has quit IRC[23:46:00] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[23:54:07] *** synchris has joined #haiku[23:54:07] *** synchris has joined #haiku[23:54:39] *** nsuperbus has quit IRC[23:57:37] *** kcj has joined #haiku[23:57:57] *** mitknil has quit IRC