April 16, 2012 
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April 16, 2012 [00:02:43] <jayrulez> How is the work on package manager going?[00:03:36] <Premislaus> What do you thinks, we can do to better marketing Haiku?[00:03:51] <dreamed> cart < horse[00:04:21] <Premislaus> It is unfortunate that there is no longer Technoids[00:04:42] <Premislaus> dreamed: hmm?[00:04:54] <dreamed> it's still alpha[00:04:59] <dreamed> time and a place, etc[00:05:04] <CIA-37> haiku.master: zooey * hrev44037 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=248f228 : (log message trimmed)[00:05:04] <CIA-37> Final part of cleanup in Catalog.h. [5 commits][00:05:04] <CIA-37> * move versions of the B_TRANSLATE_...-macros used during collecting[00:05:04] <CIA-37> of catalog keys to a specific header file, which will only be picked[00:05:04] <CIA-37> up when running collectcatkeys[00:05:05] <CIA-37> * fix a couple of build problems during the preprocessing of the libbe-[00:05:06] <CIA-37> sources when extracting catalog keys, all due to private headers not[00:08:08] <jayrulez> I don't think it's time to market haiku[00:08:31] <dreamed> ^[00:08:51] <jayrulez> we wouldn't want new users to have a sour taste in their mouth from haiku in its currnt state[00:08:57] <jayrulez> current*.[00:09:40] <jayrulez> Building applications and improving the OS should be the main priority right now[00:10:00] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[00:11:10] <jayrulez> Maybe we could build a team from the haiku community who are not working on the OS but are able to program to focus on building some non-trivial applications for haiku[00:11:29] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[00:11:44] *** mmadia42 has quit IRC[00:12:18] <Premislaus> The more users, the more payments, more contracts, more developers[00:12:37] <Premislaus> more soft[00:13:47] <Premislaus> Haiku must have something no one else. Maybe an MMO?[00:14:03] <dreamed> Premislaus: you may not be aware, but we see this conversation every week or two[00:14:12] <dreamed> that said, I've never seen someone suggest an MMO yet[00:14:16] <dreamed> so bonus points for originality[00:15:39] <jayrulez> I think it would be good if we could form a team or 2 like that to spend a year working on about 5 non-trivial applications, it would be great[00:16:52] <Premislaus> Office suite, Gimp, Blender, etc.. It may attract some people, but most people are not convinced. They have dozens of Linux distributions with the same.[00:17:27] <Skipp_OSX> well, you need to find a niche[00:17:54] <dreamed> Premislaus: Haiku has something that others don't. Raw speed and a fantastic UI.[00:17:58] <Skipp_OSX> You'll never have the same application base as windows, and recreating all Windows software on Haiku would be impossible[00:18:36] <Skipp_OSX> For instance TuneTracker still runs on BeOS, it is a niche product[00:19:18] <Skipp_OSX> if you develop a best of breed app Haiku in some category then people will use your OS just for that.[00:20:43] <Skipp_OSX> If you make yet another office suite... yeah, not so much :)[00:21:34] <Premislaus> Then, if some company would have used Haiku, it might be interested in financial support, or buying support.[00:21:53] *** SMCollins1 has joined #haiku[00:22:42] <dreamed> if some company wants to use Alpha software as an OS for production systems they need their heads read / their IT manager fired[00:22:43] <AlienSoldier> field of dream. build the OS right and programmer will come[00:24:51] <SMCollins1> dreamed: that would mean most linux distro useage should result in firing, I've never seen a thurough Q&A process on a linux distro.[00:25:08] <Skipp_OSX> dreamed: well, I think TuneTracker is porting in anticipation of R1[00:25:12] <AlienSoldier> you want to know the difference between when computing was fun and when computing became boring? It was fun when programmer made software for their own use like tehy wanted it to work. It became boring when they wanted to make money from it and tailor everything to the lowest common denominator to win the largest market share.[00:25:22] <Skipp_OSX> it is one of the last remaining commercial BeOS softwares[00:25:28] <Premislaus> I think so. Haiku needs 10 000 active members, paying to a dollar per month. Annually, this will give 120000$. This allows you to pay two full-time programmers.[00:25:52] <Skipp_OSX> Nothing a couple 100 million dollars couldn't fix :)[00:26:50] <Premislaus> 10000 users are within in range, the only question is how?[00:27:29] <SMCollins1> Wasn't the last alpha downloaded some like 500,000 times ?[00:27:47] *** backb0ne_ has joined #haiku[00:29:27] <Skipp_OSX> IIRC FF 3.0 was the largest downloaded release of any FOSS software at like 300k[00:30:00] <Premislaus> Maybe some ads on the homepage of Haiku? I clicked every day... When i enter to the blog of kallisti5, always click.[00:30:02] <SMCollins1> ff 3 ? 300k ? keep going[00:30:34] <SMCollins1> there around 1 billion desktop computers on the planet, even 1% market share would be 20x that[00:30:36] <dreamed> SMCollins1: most of the businesses we deal with using linux, are running either RedHat/CentOS or SUSE[00:30:52] <SMCollins1> well, Rehat/Cent Suse do have Q&A process[00:30:57] <dreamed> indeed[00:31:04] <dreamed> I know of a few Ubuntu shops[00:31:11] <dreamed> there are LTS releases there[00:31:25] <SMCollins1> Ubuntu is garbage[00:31:28] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[00:31:42] <SMCollins1> its all shiny and featured, but everything likes polish and integration[00:32:24] <Skipp_OSX> I mean for a single release, obviously all of FF has been downloaded more times[00:33:13] <SMCollins1> ff3 was the first release that got traction on windows though[00:33:35] <SMCollins1> Opening day, i'd bet 300k was right, I was talking 500k total downloads of alpha3[00:34:05] <Premislaus> In Poland 50% of Internet users has Firefox.[00:34:15] <Premislaus> http://www.benchmark.pl/uploads/backend_img/a/browsersstats1112polska.jpg[00:34:28] <dreamed> we don't typically recommend ubuntu, but some places do fine with it[00:34:36] <dreamed> my issue with ubuntu is the rate of change[00:34:38] <SMCollins1> Microsoft tends to fudge their market share on IE a bit[00:34:55] * dreamed hates firefox[00:34:57] <dreamed> shit software is shit.[00:35:01] <Premislaus> Chrome is like a cancer.[00:35:13] <SMCollins1> IE is a cancer[00:35:26] <dreamed> I hate chrome as well[00:35:27] <Premislaus> fact[00:35:34] <dreamed> current gen IE is better than chrome and firefox, which makes me sad[00:35:54] <dreamed> it's more standards compliant, less likely to crash, and runs lighter[00:36:07] <SMCollins1> whats better about IE ? other then the fact that microsoft has again implemented features outside of the specification[00:36:12] <dreamed> see above[00:36:16] <SMCollins1> not true[00:36:33] <SMCollins1> mathon 3.3 is The most html5 conformant browser out today[00:36:38] <SMCollins1> maxthon[00:36:49] <dreamed> and that means IE isn't more standards compliant than chrome or ff .. how?[00:37:17] <SMCollins1> becuase microsoft is pulling another ie6 , buy adding feature outside of the specification instead of adding onto the specification[00:37:22] <Premislaus> resting on their laurels ;)( Chrome, Firefox)[00:37:33] <dreamed> adding additional features overtop of the spec doesn't make it less spec compliant[00:37:39] <SMCollins1> hardly, chrome outscores ie9 for html5 compliance[00:37:53] <dreamed> which would be fine, if it would stop crashing[00:38:02] *** sarcas has quit IRC[00:38:06] <SMCollins1> yes it does make it les compliant, becuas ewith that much market share they can force alternative broswer providers out[00:38:14] <SMCollins1> Chrome runs good for me[00:38:28] <SMCollins1> as does FF and Maxthon[00:38:38] <dreamed> Chrome runs okay for me on mac os, but like a dog on linux[00:38:45] <SMCollins1> thats a problem with linux[00:38:57] <dreamed> er[00:39:02] <dreamed> what?[00:39:24] <SMCollins1> yeah, just like QT apps load and run slow on windows, not a problem on haiku or many other operatingsystems[00:39:38] <dreamed> ooookay[00:39:42] *** sarcas has joined #haiku[00:39:53] <SMCollins1> you doubt this ?[00:40:04] <dreamed> so if an app runs slow in linux, it's linux's fault?[00:40:18] <SMCollins1> it could just be the platform isn't a good fit for the application design[00:40:25] <dreamed> it's a _browser_[00:40:29] <SMCollins1> if a BeOS app runs like crap on windows, its be's fualt ?[00:40:46] <dreamed> your argument is that if a beos app runs like crap on windows it's windows' fault[00:40:54] <SMCollins1> this is true[00:41:08] <SMCollins1> beos api isn;t compatible with much of the windows system design[00:41:23] <SMCollins1> so you either wrap it with indirection and abstraction or you rewrite it[00:41:32] <dreamed> and that's a problem with .. windows[00:41:45] <SMCollins1> in many ways yes and no[00:41:50] <SMCollins1> Firefox was netscape[00:42:03] <jayrulez> That's a problem with the programmer :|[00:42:06] <SMCollins1> its still largely a "windows" application,[00:42:16] <dreamed> I'm with jay on this[00:42:17] <SMCollins1> it just gets wrapped into linux,[00:42:30] <dreamed> that's not linux's fault, that's _laziness_[00:43:26] <SMCollins1> it is linuxs fualt, becuase linux doesn;t offer a standard developement enviroment and api toolset to make this problem go away[00:43:54] <dreamed> I will agree that having two main development toolkits isn't an advantage[00:43:58] <dreamed> but your argument is ridiculous[00:43:59] <SMCollins1> so instead of writing a modular program with interchangeable guis using fiarly standard librarys, they have to port all this crap sideway to linux[00:44:28] <SMCollins1> much of the program could be written in c/c++ thats highly portable[00:44:43] <dreamed> so what you're suggesting is that none of the current toolkits/apis are good, and it needs a new "standard" one?[00:44:44] <SMCollins1> but since linux lacks basic services as a standard, you have to bring everything with you[00:44:48] <dreamed> and that will solve lazy programming?[00:44:53] <SMCollins1> pick A standard[00:45:09] <Premislaus> BTW will be a new interview on haiku-os.org. But first I need to get answers. I intend to interrogate any developer :P[00:45:24] <dreamed> SMCollins1: Chrome sucks on KDE and on Gnome[00:45:32] <dreamed> if they'd picked one of those standards[00:45:36] <dreamed> it would still be sucking[00:45:54] <SMCollins1> sounds like a problem with KDE and gnome, chrome runs great on the windows api[00:46:10] <dreamed> ...[00:46:12] <dreamed> seriously?[00:46:12] <SMCollins1> just for the record here, I hate windows[00:46:18] <SMCollins1> yeah really[00:46:24] <SMCollins1> chrome runs great on windows[00:46:31] <dreamed> that's not what I was questioning[00:46:40] *** Ingenu has left #haiku[00:46:48] <dreamed> you're saying that because an application is developed on one os and then ported, it's the fault of the os it's ported to if it doesn't work well[00:46:52] <dreamed> rather than the code[00:47:02] <SMCollins1> the problem is that no one can figure out what to target, so you have everything abstracting everything else and the penalty is performance and bugs[00:47:10] <dreamed> based on what?[00:47:30] <SMCollins1> no, I am saying that stuff seems to port fine between osx and windows "for the most part" but fials on linux[00:48:22] <SMCollins1> do you know what the difference is ? windows and osx have a guarenteed minimal framework and system build that you can target and tools to make it viable to build cross platform apps. Linux groups refuse to do this[00:48:33] * SMCollins1 is off the soap box[00:52:09] <dreamed> I think there's more to it than that[00:52:34] <dreamed> I won't disagree that they have more solid development frameworks in general, as well as better support and generally a much nicer experience all-round[00:52:45] <dreamed> it's one of the reasons I prefer osx[00:52:51] <dreamed> that said[00:53:13] <dreamed> I don't agree that the problem is just the toolkits and apis on linux, without data to actually back that up[00:53:35] <SMCollins1> dreamed: the answer is self evident[00:53:44] <dreamed> so we're talking religion now?[00:53:56] <dreamed> then again, linux[00:53:56] <SMCollins1> non gui kernel performance on linux is stellar, but the userland stuff is a disaster[00:53:58] <dreamed> so maybe we are[00:54:17] <dreamed> if you're comparing gui to non-gui, wouldn't you start looking at X first[00:54:20] <SMCollins1> how many audio api's do you need ? answer 1[00:54:20] <dreamed> rather than toolkits and apis?[00:54:34] <SMCollins1> why the fuck is X even still used[00:54:43] <dreamed> Ubuntu are moving away from it[00:54:55] <SMCollins1> it was a project ment for main frame terminal use and it comes with some serious performance penaltys for native use[00:55:07] <SMCollins1> its 2012, X was a disaster in 1988[00:57:00] <Skipp_OSX> Wayland will finally replace X11 it seems[00:57:21] <SMCollins1> jesus really ? after 30 years of sucking they will finally replace X, my god how timely[00:58:13] <Skipp_OSX> Jesus, not jesus, and God, not god[00:58:26] *** swarfega is now known as swarfega|away[00:58:37] <dreamed> get your blaspheming grammatically correct, damn you[00:59:10] * dreamed wonders if anyone will point out the grammatical flaws in that sentence.[00:59:31] * SMCollins1 is not a grammar nazi[00:59:49] *** augiedoggie has joined #haiku[01:00:03] <augiedoggie> jesus Fucking christ[01:00:16] <dreamed> on a crutch?[01:00:16] <SMCollins1> lol[01:00:28] *** sarcas has quit IRC[01:01:56] <jayrulez> :|[01:02:16] <jayrulez> I am disappoint[01:02:18] <Skipp_OSX> ... on a cactus[01:02:43] * dreamed winces[01:02:56] <SMCollins1> ...... on a hot tin roof[01:02:59] <Premislaus> Gentlemens http://m.simson.net/ugh.pdf[01:03:03] <dreamed> that's just rubbing it in[01:03:53] *** augiedoggie has left #haiku[01:07:11] <SMCollins1> Premislaus: thanks for the link, that book is hilarious[01:07:18] <Premislaus> :)[01:07:23] <Skipp_OSX> Unix Hater's Handbook I assume[01:07:27] <SMCollins1> thank god haiku isn't unix[01:07:39] <SMCollins1> its only a little unix like[01:07:42] <SMCollins1> just a tiny bit[01:07:44] <SMCollins1> lol[01:07:57] <Skipp_OSX> Go, Haiku, Unix[01:07:59] <Skipp_OSX> God[01:08:23] <Skipp_OSX> or sometimes God, Haiku UNIX[01:08:49] <Premislaus> http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/index.php - this is funny[01:08:54] <Skipp_OSX> Haiku is owes a lot to Unix, and God[01:10:02] <Skipp_OSX> what you actually mean is, thank God Haiku doesn't use X11[01:13:01] <SMCollins1> but haiku isn't a unix, its only a bit unix like and that it share some of the same design principals of unix "most of which are simply unavoidable due to the programming languages and hardware designs.[01:13:21] <SMCollins1> I think whoever created god for haiku not having X11[01:13:33] *** luroh has quit IRC[01:13:56] <Skipp_OSX> whomever[01:13:59] <Skipp_OSX> I'll stop :)[01:14:04] <SMCollins1> lol[01:16:17] <CIA-37> haiku.master: jscipione * hrev44038 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=c0611fa : Convert Deskbar preferences to use font aware spacing.[01:25:26] *** P4R4N01D has quit IRC[01:26:03] <SMCollins1> ahh the joys of parenthood, my 4 year old boy has discovered the cieling duster, and is not dusting the entire basement. Doing a pretty good job to.[01:26:18] <SMCollins1> at least he's entertained ![01:28:09] <Skipp_OSX> Haiku is not a Unix, that is true, but I am glad that it supports some Unix concepts[01:28:25] <SMCollins1> Yes, and some unix concepts are completely unavoidable[01:29:33] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins1: you could avoid them... at great peril[01:29:52] <Skipp_OSX> MacOS not X certainly did[01:30:21] <SMCollins1> some of this is obviously hardware driven to, like the cpu uarch effects the flow and type of code[01:30:47] <Skipp_OSX> well, yeah, but you could implement it in a different way than Unix[01:31:00] <Skipp_OSX> You don't even need to have a hierarchical file system if you don't want[01:31:42] <Skipp_OSX> Plan 9 has some really nice improvements over Unix[01:31:47] *** Huggy has quit IRC[01:32:30] <SMCollins1> I am fiarly sure that some of the concepts we call unix, have been bolted on over the years, stripping off the bad shit and doing a clean design reusing the best parts, was a good and novel goal. I was sure some company with a crazy frenchmen tried in the early 1990's, if only I could remember the name[01:33:00] <Skipp_OSX> I just read a thing from Rob Pike where he said there isn't a single #ifdef B_BIG_ENDIAN or #ifdef B_LITTLE_ENDIAN in Plan 9, it is completely host endian independent.[01:33:12] <Skipp_OSX> I checked Haiku, not so much[01:34:49] <SMCollins1> thats interesting, I thought compilers could determine endianess to some degree[01:35:17] <SMCollins1> that is going to likely be a problem with arm/mips ports etc[01:41:13] <jayrulez> What happened with Plan 9[01:41:15] <jayrulez> ?[01:41:17] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins1: well, the programmer will have to deal with it, I suppose a concerned effort could elinated all Endian issues in Haiku[01:41:28] <jayrulez> I think there is Inferno and Plan9front[01:41:35] <Skipp_OSX> jayrulez: nothing, it is a research OS, never meant to be a commercial success[01:41:37] <jayrulez> which is worth following?[01:41:53] <Skipp_OSX> It is worth taking ideas from[01:42:03] <jayrulez> which?[01:42:11] <Skipp_OSX> well, like the one I just said[01:42:21] <jayrulez> Inferno is independent from Plan9front i think[01:42:24] <Skipp_OSX> also, Plan9 doesn't use ioctl's at all[01:43:00] <Skipp_OSX> drivers are implemented using files like everything else, fork, exec, etc.[01:43:13] <Skipp_OSX> no special kernel interface required[01:43:30] <SMCollins1> I am curious how transactional memory in hardware will effect software, since intel is claiming they are planning to release a cpu with it and amd is showing hand at working on a transactional emory cpu/gpu hybrid[01:48:25] <Premislaus> http://pulkomandy.lexinfo.fr/projects/haiku3daccel/wiki - this will be developed?[01:50:21] <Skipp_OSX> Premislaus: afaik Looncraz is working on compositing presently[01:50:41] <Premislaus> ok[01:52:23] <SMCollins1> Looncraz is quitling working on it[01:52:29] <Skipp_OSX> 3d hardware acceleration will take some time, kallisti5 has just started to take the first steps[01:53:33] <Premislaus> i know[02:00:23] <Premislaus> I do not remember where I read this, but BGLView allows direct use with graphics card, without app_server? right?[02:00:40] <Skipp_OSX> Premislaus: yes, but it gives you a framebuffer as I understand it.[02:01:56] <Skipp_OSX> http://haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/BGLView.html[02:02:54] <Skipp_OSX> SMCollins: why has Looncraz quit working on it, did he run into intractable problems?[02:03:03] <SMCollins1> quietly[02:03:55] <Skipp_OSX> quietly?[02:03:56] <Premislaus> What kind of performance gain would a give?[02:04:17] <SMCollins1> skipp, I suck at spelling to be less loud[02:05:21] <Premislaus> You have to make big changes in the game code? Is it enough that the game just to compile?[02:05:25] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[02:11:00] <Premislaus> i go to sleep, bye, good night, 2:10 a.m...[02:11:22] *** Premislaus has left #haiku[02:14:20] *** Bryanstein has quit IRC[02:15:23] *** synchris has quit IRC[02:18:29] *** Bryanstein has joined #haiku[02:29:56] *** Bryanstein has quit IRC[02:32:06] *** Bryanstein has joined #haiku[02:38:09] *** hamishm has quit IRC[02:45:35] *** Barrett has quit IRC[03:11:27] *** PasNox has quit IRC[03:16:41] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[03:19:40] *** dr_evil_ has joined #haiku[03:21:56] *** oco2 has quit IRC[03:23:35] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[03:24:39] *** mmadia has quit IRC[03:26:03] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[03:26:03] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[03:32:00] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[03:35:09] *** mmadia has quit IRC[03:37:10] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[03:37:38] *** dr_evil_ has quit IRC[03:39:26] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[03:40:44] <HaikuUser> hi, i am hacing some trouble getting sound to work under alpha 3[03:40:55] <HaikuUser> running under vmware player[03:41:34] <HaikuUser> i click on volume icon in desktray and it says could not find the mixer[03:41:40] <HaikuUser> any ideas? thanks[03:50:28] <HaikuUser> I installed opensound, but still no luck :-([03:50:52] <SMCollins1> what audio card is setup in vmware[03:51:41] *** jayrulez has quit IRC[03:52:50] <HaikuUser> I looked at VMWare Player settings but couldn't see the soundcard[03:53:08] <HaikuUser> if my host computer (a dell laptop) has a soundcard that haiku doesn't[03:53:22] <HaikuUser> recognize then their will be no sound?[03:55:03] <SMCollins1> if haiku doesn't recognize the laptop audio card, there will be no sound[03:55:23] <SMCollins1> I think you have to add the sound card to VMWare player[03:56:09] <HaikuUser> ok, thanks, I will mess around with vmware player and see what i can do about adding a sound card[03:56:16] <HaikuUser> bye[03:56:20] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[03:56:23] *** jayrulez has joined #haiku[03:56:29] <SMCollins1> try booting haiku see if it work, but grab a nightly, alpha3 is old[04:10:17] *** Advant has quit IRC[04:12:20] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[04:25:47] *** HaikuUser2 has joined #haiku[04:26:10] *** HaikuUser3 has joined #haiku[04:29:58] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[04:29:58] *** HaikuUser3 is now known as HaikuUser[04:29:59] *** HaikuUser2 has quit IRC[04:30:04] *** bryan_w has joined #haiku[05:05:40] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[05:18:45] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[05:20:01] *** SMCollins1 has quit IRC[05:22:08] *** backb0ne_ has quit IRC[05:35:28] *** ubuntu-test has quit IRC[05:40:49] *** bryan_w has quit IRC[05:44:51] *** bryan_w has joined #haiku[05:51:52] *** bryan_w has quit IRC[06:03:27] *** mdleblanc_ has joined #haiku[06:03:58] <mdleblanc_> Anyone have any tips for getting the latest snapshot bootable from a blank hdd?[06:08:42] *** kcj has joined #haiku[06:08:53] *** ani` has joined #haiku[06:21:40] *** mdleblanc_ has quit IRC[06:44:35] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[06:49:06] *** PasNox has quit IRC[06:52:38] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[06:53:02] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[07:04:55] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[07:23:45] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[07:25:37] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[07:32:24] *** ashish__ has joined #haiku[07:33:31] *** ani` has quit IRC[07:50:59] *** fhein has joined #haiku[07:56:03] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[08:18:02] *** fhein has quit IRC[08:22:00] *** PasNox has quit IRC[08:31:02] <CIA-37> haiku.master: jscipione * hrev44039 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=a884b43 : (log message trimmed)[08:31:02] <CIA-37> Added support for buttons and menuframes with rounded corners.[08:31:02] <CIA-37> * Not turned on for default buttons and menuframes right now.[08:31:02] <CIA-37> * Updated Deskcalc and Keymap to use buttons with rounded corners.[08:31:02] <CIA-37> * Overloaded methods with radium parameters are not virtual right[08:31:02] <CIA-37> now so as to not break vtables. Added /*virtual*/ before each[08:31:03] <CIA-37> method that should be made virtual in ControlLook.h[08:31:56] *** _marc` has quit IRC[08:33:15] *** ashish__ has quit IRC[08:33:40] *** ashish__ has joined #haiku[08:41:34] *** ashish__ has quit IRC[08:54:25] <HeTo> oh, I thought it was a look decision to have square corners in Haiku unlike BeOS, where corners were rounded[08:55:05] <HeTo> as opposed to a technical decision[09:09:15] *** J-Ho has joined #haiku[09:12:17] *** MatthewH12 has quit IRC[09:14:58] *** diver_ has left #haiku[09:15:30] *** diver_ has joined #haiku[09:23:32] <CIA-37> haiku.master: jscipione * hrev44040 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=3244c2b : Whoops, remove constraints after drawing slider bar.[09:24:21] <Skipp_OSX> HeTo: idk, I don't think BeOS had rounded corners[09:27:04] <Skipp_OSX> at least it didn't in the way I think of them looking[09:27:15] <scgtrp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BeOS_Desktop.png << that looks fairly unrounded[09:27:23] <scgtrp> except the tabs[09:28:16] <diver_> http://qube.ru/files/images/skrinshot_beos_dano_na_macintosh_zsnake.gif[09:28:42] <scgtrp> wasn't that that one post-r5 version that got leaked or something?[09:28:56] <diver_> yes[09:30:24] <Skipp_OSX> yes, Dano had rounded corners on it's buttons[09:31:13] *** swarfega|away is now known as swarfega[09:31:41] <OmniMancer> but Dano isn't what we mean by BeOS[09:33:49] <Skipp_OSX> right, and R5 did not have rounded corners[09:36:29] <Skipp_OSX> anyway, rounded corners are just a parameter away if we want them now.[09:43:40] *** arfonzo has quit IRC[09:49:47] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[09:50:41] *** P4R4N01D has joined #haiku[09:55:25] *** ragnar76 has joined #haiku[09:55:32] <ragnar76> morning all[09:58:10] *** arfonzo has joined #haiku[10:00:49] <ragnar76> got into trouble. i want to try the m68k port of haiku ( ok, it's a bit outdatet ) and while configuring/building ( using gcc 4.6 on debian linux ) i get this error. "error: Link tests are not allowed after GCC_NO_EXECUTABLES." do i have a chance to get it working and if yes, how?[10:10:10] *** jimage has quit IRC[10:10:26] *** jimage has joined #haiku[10:12:13] <OmniMancer> I don't know if the m68k port is even at a booting stage yet[10:12:37] <ragnar76> OmniMancer: there is a bootloader[10:12:51] <ragnar76> here's a howto : https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/mmu_man/2008-08-03/helping_on_m68k[10:13:04] *** txtsd has joined #haiku[10:13:59] <OmniMancer> ragnar76: bootloader doesn't mean it boots[10:14:45] <ragnar76> OmniMancer: i've tested it in an emulator one or two years ago. it was booting and now i want to test it on a real computer[10:15:25] <ragnar76> but i think it's an error from gcc 4.6 . i will try gcc 4.4 now[10:15:29] <OmniMancer> well from that message by "booting" you mean it gets to loading the kernel[10:15:36] <OmniMancer> that isn't booting[10:15:53] <OmniMancer> booting is loading the kernel, starting the OS and getting the desktop[10:16:32] <ragnar76> sure it is[10:17:07] <ragnar76> it would be nice to get that running beside the native atari os, linux and bsd[10:17:57] <OmniMancer> but it won't do that[10:18:12] <OmniMancer> it will error at you after leaving the bootloader because the port is not complete[10:18:43] *** DHowett_ has quit IRC[10:18:58] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[10:18:58] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[10:23:23] <xyzzy> ragnar76: are you getting that error during the GCC build?[10:23:25] <ragnar76> at least the kernel is not fully working, yes but it should be enough to get it to run and start developing/debugging[10:23:32] <ragnar76> xyzzy: yes[10:23:47] <xyzzy> doing your own build or from buildtools?[10:23:54] <ragnar76> xyzzy: yes too[10:24:18] <xyzzy> yes to doing your own build or to from buildtools? :P[10:25:08] <ragnar76> yes to all. i follow this instruction here : http://www.haiku-os.org/documents/dev/building_haiku_ubuntu_linux_step_step[10:25:40] <ragnar76> it is outdatet too yesbut still works on x86[10:25:54] <xyzzy> so you're building the cross tools the normal way, through configure?[10:26:02] <ragnar76> yes i do[10:26:13] <xyzzy> (what I meant by doing your own build was building the cross tools manually)[10:26:30] <xyzzy> anyway, when did you last pull?[10:26:39] <ragnar76> today[10:27:46] <xyzzy> hmm, interesting. there was a commit yesterday that should have fixed that[10:28:30] <ragnar76> seems not to work ;)[10:29:08] <xyzzy> in the build output near the error, do you see anything about zlib mentioned?[10:29:46] <ragnar76> i cannot view anymore. i restarted the build process again with gcc 4.4[10:30:08] <xyzzy> ah, ok[10:30:25] <ragnar76> when it appears again, i'll have a look at it[10:44:35] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[10:46:20] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[10:47:58] <ragnar76> gcc 4.4 builds fine[10:52:28] <ragnar76> but fails to build the loader[10:52:34] <OmniMancer1> hmm[10:56:49] <ragnar76> while building there are a lot of these warnings : " #warning M68K: fix floats in vregs, add missing stuff. "[10:57:15] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[10:57:17] <ragnar76> and finaly i get this error ...failed C++ generated/objects/linux/x86/release/build/libroot/atomic.o ...[10:57:57] <ragnar76> will check back later, have to work a bit[10:58:54] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[11:00:27] *** txtsd has quit IRC[11:00:44] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[11:01:44] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[11:08:44] *** kcj has quit IRC[11:08:59] *** kcj has joined #haiku[11:20:24] *** redblue has quit IRC[11:25:53] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[11:26:42] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[11:28:15] *** redblue has joined #haiku[11:31:19] *** Arithmos-sfx has joined #haiku[11:31:40] <Arithmos-sfx> hi, bonjour, czesc[11:33:05] *** adev has joined #haiku[11:43:30] *** _marc` has quit IRC[11:49:06] *** synchris has joined #haiku[11:49:06] *** synchris has joined #haiku[12:01:27] *** saftz has joined #haiku[12:02:20] <saftz> Is it possible to build packages from ex: arch, ubuntu repos to install it on Haiku? Or have i missunderstand the guide?[12:09:35] *** saftz has quit IRC[12:16:07] <ragnar76> strange, the loader builds fine with gcc 4.6[12:19:47] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[12:27:48] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[13:13:33] *** Beretta021 has joined #haiku[13:21:22] *** Luko has joined #haiku[13:32:58] <ragnar76> what does "jam -q" means? is there anywhere a doc for jam?[13:38:28] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[13:43:36] <diver_> ragnar76: it suppose to quit building on the first error[13:45:25] <ragnar76> ah, ok[13:59:59] <OmniMancer> by default jam tries to build all the targets it can, even if error occur[14:02:54] *** juaa_ has joined #haiku[14:02:59] *** jua_ has quit IRC[14:07:06] *** hamishm has joined #haiku[14:15:46] *** Forca has joined #haiku[14:21:46] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[14:29:51] *** Premislaus has joined #haiku[14:30:08] <Premislaus> hello[14:34:06] *** Arithmos-sfx has quit IRC[14:42:16] *** Smartnow has quit IRC[14:55:22] *** Smartnow has joined #haiku[15:03:16] *** alvdav has joined #haiku[15:04:22] *** adamk` has quit IRC[15:05:50] *** adamk has joined #haiku[15:11:17] *** kcj has quit IRC[15:17:52] *** TimKack has joined #haiku[15:34:18] *** nsuperbus has joined #haiku[15:37:04] *** alvdav has quit IRC[15:42:43] *** yongcong has joined #haiku[15:44:18] *** AlexanderS has quit IRC[15:45:24] *** AlexanderS has joined #haiku[15:54:01] *** Luko has quit IRC[16:01:31] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[16:02:10] <waveshaper> anyone had a problem with haiku hanging after a while after booting and running ?[16:03:02] <arfonzo> depending on certain factors like virtualisation and hrev, yes.[16:04:58] <waveshaper> ok. I did an installation from USB, but had to go to safe mode and disable all in boot meny to get it to work long enough to finish installation to disk. then it seemed to work fine from the HD partition after that.[16:06:03] <waveshaper> then I modified it to my likings and I did enable virtual memory at some point[16:29:10] <Premislaus> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_fusion_gallium3d&num=1 I hope that, Gallium3D will run faster[16:31:05] *** Barrett has quit IRC[16:40:12] *** abhiin1947 has joined #haiku[16:42:21] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku[16:47:32] *** mitknil has joined #haiku[16:50:41] *** _marc` has quit IRC[16:50:42] *** fhein has joined #haiku[16:51:57] *** Smartnow has quit IRC[16:53:48] *** abhiin1947 has quit IRC[16:54:00] *** Smartnow has joined #haiku[17:09:52] <jayrulez> waveshaper: are you using the latest nightly?[17:11:02] <waveshaper> ah yep[17:11:11] <waveshaper> well. from last night so no :)[17:11:14] <waveshaper> there is a new on 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joined #haiku[21:29:48] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[21:29:57] *** Hubert^^ has quit IRC[21:32:31] <CIA-37> haiku.master: zooey * hrev44041 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=546208a : (log message trimmed)[21:32:32] <CIA-37> More catalog-related cleanup.[21:32:32] <CIA-37> * rename B_TRANSLATE_CONTEXT to B_TRANSLATION_CONTEXT and[21:32:32] <CIA-37> B_TRANSLATE_WITH_CONTEXT to B_TRANSLATE_CONTEXT, squashing a TODO[21:32:32] <CIA-37> * adjust all uses of both macros in Haiku's source tree[21:32:32] <CIA-37> * use correct header guard for collecting/Catalog.h[21:32:33] <CIA-37> The renamed macros require adjustments to all external applications[21:36:14] *** PasNox has quit IRC[21:37:23] *** Hubert^^ has joined #haiku[21:39:51] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[21:41:05] *** jstressman has joined #haiku[21:41:54] *** wry has quit IRC[21:47:35] *** korli has quit IRC[21:48:53] *** TimKack_ has joined #haiku[21:49:42] *** TimKack has quit IRC[21:49:43] *** TimKack_ is now known as TimKack[21:57:16] *** Hubert^^ has quit IRC[22:07:42] <Anarchos> i am importing all the X11 stuff from tiltos (package manager for haiku), it is pretty cool to see a Motif based graphical app compiling ![22:12:35] *** Forca has quit IRC[22:12:55] *** Dane_ has joined #haiku[22:13:01] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[22:13:06] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[22:17:04] <Anarchos> hi mmadia[22:17:12] <mmadia> 'lo[22:17:55] <Anarchos> mmadia Did you saw the article about BeGeistert ?[22:18:20] <mmadia> which article?[22:18:25] *** tqh has quit IRC[22:18:34] <Anarchos> mmadia the little news with some photos[22:18:47] <mmadia> which website?[22:20:24] *** fhein has quit IRC[22:21:12] <Anarchos> mmadia haiku-os.org[22:21:51] <mmadia> this article? http://www.haiku-os.org/news/2012-03-20_begeistert_025_silver_registration_now_open[22:23:50] *** tqh has joined #haiku[22:25:51] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[22:26:39] *** mitknil has quit IRC[22:29:11] <Anarchos> mmadia no, this one : http://haiku-os.org/blog/humdinger/2012-04-06_short_begeistert_025_report[22:29:35] <mmadia> oh. yeah. anything about it? :)[22:29:52] <Anarchos> mmadia i just read it today at work :)[22:30:03] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[22:31:47] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[22:31:52] *** alvdav has joined #haiku[22:33:43] <alvdav> hey there!, which kit is libbe.so?[22:36:04] <Skipp_OSX> libbe.so contains most of em' I belive[22:36:24] <Anarchos> alvdav OS.h[22:36:32] <Anarchos> alvdav it is the core of the OS[22:36:46] *** sl_ has quit IRC[22:36:48] <Anarchos> alvdav aka KernelKit.h[22:36:51] *** vezhlys_ has joined #haiku[22:37:12] <Anarchos> alvdav just type "nm libbe.so" in the right directory to see which functions are defined inside libbe[22:38:46] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[22:41:52] *** sl_ has joined #haiku[22:44:31] *** minox has joined #haiku[22:44:41] <minox> any non smokers in here?[22:46:29] <bbjimmy> I quit 14 years ago[22:47:01] <dreamed> my parents put me off smoking forever when I was 3.[22:47:31] *** TimKack has quit IRC[22:47:56] *** TimKack has joined #haiku[22:49:08] <Anarchos> minox i am non smoker, why ?[22:49:23] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[22:49:40] <minox> every kiss a smoker?[22:49:43] <minox> ever[22:49:47] <minox> I'm a non smoker[22:50:05] <minox> odd to be asking this at my age… I have never kissed a smoker and fear it's nasty as all get out[22:50:30] <minox> current interest is a "light" smoker[22:50:39] <minox> but still have concerns[22:51:01] <bbjimmy> smoke is what makes all electronic devices work.[22:51:21] <bbjimmy> untill you let the smoke out that is[22:51:40] <minox> yeah yeah… she's not a fembot...[22:52:32] <minox> so bbjimmy kisses his electronics… any other takers?[22:52:38] <minox> what's your input[22:53:30] <Dane_> minox!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![22:53:34] <minox> Dane!![22:53:37] <Dane_> :-)[22:53:38] <minox> hey pal!![22:53:44] <Dane_> What a nice surprise[22:53:47] <minox> I am still using that TT system[22:53:53] <Dane_> How cool is that?[22:54:03] <minox> sweet as pie[22:54:06] <bbjimmy> I do no such thing[22:54:22] <minox> bbjimmy: it's ok, don't be embarassed[22:54:25] <bbjimmy> just an observation[22:54:26] <minox> we don't judge[22:55:22] <mmu_man> plop[22:55:34] <minox> it's a reunion[22:55:37] <minox> hey mmu_man[22:55:47] <Dane_> mmu_man![22:55:51] <minox> Dane lets keep in touch… you have my number still?[22:55:53] <Dane_> What is this, a family reunion?![22:56:01] <minox> yay old skol![22:56:03] * mmu_man is a non-smoker[22:56:03] <Dane_> minox Probably not... sec[22:56:04] <minox> haha[22:56:06] *** luko has quit IRC[22:56:12] <minox> mmu_man: ever kiss a smoker?[22:56:47] <mmu_man> I evade them 10ft away[22:56:49] * Dane_ expects Zaranthos to fall out of the sky any second[22:57:03] <mmu_man> is BeShare down or something ? :p[22:57:12] <Dane_> hehe :-)[22:57:14] <minox> nope.. mmu_man my servers up[22:57:19] <bbjimmy> BeShare is working just fine[22:57:21] <Dane_> minox http://haikuware.com/blogs/entry/beshare-the-time-has-come[22:57:42] <minox> I know… why can't we get be share included in the nightly builds or distros[22:58:04] <Dane_> minox It's in every distro of TT[22:58:08] <mmu_man> I still have a besharefs on my TODO list but it's still way too long[22:58:28] <minox> ok… wish me luck.. off to hang out with my smoking lady friend… both the verb and the adjective[22:58:31] <mmu_man> is there even an optional package ?[22:58:51] <minox> mmu_man: there are all sorts of tools and apps included with alpha3[22:58:51] <mmu_man> no[22:58:54] <minox> vision is in there[22:58:58] <minox> but no beshare[22:59:05] <mmu_man> make an optional package :p[22:59:16] * minox doesn't know how… been busy[22:59:26] <minox> I'm in charge of 18 offices in 15 countries[22:59:28] <Dane_> minox stay in touch![22:59:34] <minox> Dane - yes please do.[22:59:37] <Dane_> hey you guys...[22:59:39] <minox> you have my number still?[22:59:39] <Dane_> https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/8476[22:59:48] <Dane_> minox trying to /priv you[23:00:03] <minox> I'll post it here...[23:00:05] <minox> it's OK[23:00:08] <Dane_> k[23:00:28] <minox> 8076-326-548[23:00:35] <Dane_> woops[23:00:43] <Dane_> what the heck country is that?[23:00:47] <minox> USA[23:00:49] <minox> NY[23:00:52] <Dane_> look at it[23:01:02] <Dane_> OH I see what you did.[23:01:03] <minox> I know… it has a weak encryption mechanism[23:01:14] <minox> hahah[23:01:44] <minox> ttyl[23:01:51] <Dane_> l8r minox![23:01:53] <minox> dane you still at the same #[23:01:56] <Dane_> yes[23:01:58] <minox> ok[23:02:01] *** tqh has quit IRC[23:02:01] *** minox has left #haiku[23:02:24] <Dane_> Hey you guys, please have a look at this...I really need to make this happen and would love to hear feedback on what is required.[23:02:30] <Dane_> https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/8476[23:02:38] <mmu_man> does BeShare handle the beshare: URI scheme now ? I think I made a patch for that long ago[23:02:47] <mmu_man> I should document this someday[23:06:36] *** tqh has joined #haiku[23:09:27] <Dane_> mmadia[23:09:53] <Dane_> mmu_man Could you give me your opinion on that ticket too? Your posts/input at the ticket would be great.[23:09:53] *** kcj has joined #haiku[23:10:34] *** tqh has quit IRC[23:12:03] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[23:14:49] *** adb_ has joined #haiku[23:17:04] * Anarchos just copied his old BeOS R5 Pro Ed disk onto laptop, just in case :)[23:17:13] <mmu_man> Dane_: which ?[23:17:18] <mmu_man> ah[23:17:44] <mmu_man> no idea atm[23:18:25] *** Barrett has quit IRC[23:19:33] <Anarchos> I just discover tiltos, great stuff there ![23:22:56] *** TimKack has quit IRC[23:24:37] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[23:24:44] <mmu_man> Dane_: I suppose they aren't made available as separate node inputs like other multiaudio stuff we already have code to handle ?[23:25:26] *** luroh has quit IRC[23:26:33] * Anarchos think to make a native port of PureData....[23:27:39] <mmu_man> ?[23:28:33] <Anarchos> mmu_man don't you know pure data ?[23:30:20] <mmu_man> url?[23:30:49] <Anarchos> mmu_man fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Data[23:30:56] <Anarchos> mmu_man in french because you are :)[23:31:15] <mmu_man> ah, /me no musician :p[23:31:19] <Anarchos> "real time graphical audio programmming system", made at IRCAM[23:31:31] <mmu_man> GEM \o/[23:31:34] <Anarchos> mmu_man lots of artists installation involving realtime push buttons are made with this[23:31:38] <mmu_man> ah IRCAM[23:31:47] <Anarchos> mmu_man like a much more powerful Cortex[23:31:57] <Anarchos> mmu_man the guy behind is PhD in maths from harvard...[23:32:13] <mmu_man> yeah I recall seeing some IRCAM related in antique ST Mags :p[23:33:25] <mmu_man> Anarchos: and that's free software ?[23:33:27] <Anarchos> mmu_man it really deserve to google about pure data :)[23:33:34] <Anarchos> mmu_man yes that's free ![23:33:56] <Anarchos> mmu_man and used a sound creation system in some games by EA[23:34:24] <mmu_man> ok[23:36:25] <Anarchos> mmu_man now i am finishing a port of LessTif, a clone open sourced of Motif (the lib for X11)[23:38:56] <Anarchos> mmu_man i am still looking for a working X11 server for haiku...[23:39:04] <Dane_> mmu_man Sorry I was away[23:39:13] <Dane_> reading above[23:40:42] <mmu_man> Anarchos: well the only one I know on BeOS is antique...[23:40:49] <mmu_man> are you really sure you need this ?[23:40:52] <Dane_> Yeah, it's all speculation...dunno.[23:40:54] <mmu_man> that's not really "native" to me[23:41:05] <mmu_man> can't it use Tk or some other toolkit ?[23:41:05] <Dane_> mmu_man Talking to me?[23:41:10] <mmu_man> no[23:41:18] <mmu_man> :p[23:41:21] <Anarchos> mmu_man i need one to run a VLSI chip CAD ....[23:41:21] <Dane_> heh[23:41:30] <Dane_> SMCollins[23:41:52] <mmu_man> Anarchos: hmm I'm quite sure there are some FLOSS apps for this using other toolkits[23:42:04] <mmu_man> ok Tk I only ever write 1 or 2 lines to port it[23:42:27] <Anarchos> mmu_man i know but alliance is the only one i could find which fulfills my needs[23:42:47] *** P4R4N01D has quit IRC[23:43:10] <mmu_man> the name rings a bell, I fear I had to use that long ago :p[23:43:39] <Anarchos> mmu_man a vlsi cad made at Paris 6[23:43:55] <mmu_man> yeah that must be it[23:44:53] <Anarchos> mmu_man one of my project is to make a chip imagined by D. Knuth, the MMIX processor :)[23:47:03] <mmu_man> cool[23:53:53] <Anarchos> mmu_man but if i cannot run the tool which uses X , i cannot design it ;)[23:53:54] *** Negr0_VoP2P has quit IRC[23:57:46] *** swarfega is now known as swarfega|away