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[00:14:06] * IIsi tries to specify a script file in a Baxter alias, fails miserably
[00:14:22] <IIsi> There's a field "Command (or script file:"
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[00:14:57] <IIsi> If I fill in the name of the file, the name gets sent to channel as a privmsg instead
[00:15:29] <IIsi> If I use /run, I get no ouput, probably because the relative path is wrong.
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[00:32:21] <IIsi> Ok, I'm assuming the field can't actually mean "Command (or script file):"
[00:32:30] <IIsi> And instead means simply "Command:"
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[00:32:57] <IIsi> In which case, to execute the script file I'll need to use the command "/run" or "/rrun", and specify the path
[00:33:25] <IIsi> I'd rather not specify the full path...but relative has not worked so far
[00:33:35] <IIsi> So... *type-type*
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[01:12:50] <jrabbit> woah... its so organge
[01:12:52] <jrabbit> http://ports.haiku-files.org/
[01:15:48] <brechtm> jrabbit: not a fan?
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[01:18:27] <jrabbit> oh didn't realize you were in here just responded to your email
[01:18:50] <jrabbit> its alright better than before
[01:19:09] <jrabbit> http://ports.haiku-files.org/browser has a different width is that intentional?
[01:19:28] <brechtm> yes, because it gets very wide
[01:19:45] <brechtm> my initial design was bight orange
[01:19:56] <brechtm> guess there's something wrong with me :)
[01:20:01] <jrabbit> uh oh, here found something.
[01:20:05] <jrabbit> http://ports.haiku-files.org/report/3
[01:20:50] <brechtm> jrabbit: hrm.. it's still a bit messy and untested
[01:20:55] <jrabbit> the tables width is off :)
[01:21:08] <mmadia> rendering in Web+ is a bit off.
[01:21:09] <jrabbit> looks good otherwise
[01:21:23] <brechtm> mmadia: the drop shadow, right?
[01:21:26] <brechtm> thanks
[01:21:40] <jrabbit> brechtm: anywho I emailed you about maybe putting https://github.com/jrabbit/haiku-files-redesign up
[01:21:41] <brechtm> and we can still change the bg color :)
[01:21:45] <mmadia> http://imagebin.org/151074
[01:22:02] <jrabbit> I cleaned up the html stuff and rewrote the backend in python
[01:22:03] <brechtm> jrabbit: ah yes, saw a sneak preview earlier
[01:22:24] <jrabbit> (you can just deploy the php one potentially but I don't know how to do templating in php
[01:22:28] <brechtm> mmadia: renders fine in Chrome
[01:22:38] <mmadia> renders fine in FF 2.x too.
[01:22:49] <brechtm> mmadia: but it'll be easier to remove it, than to fix Web+ :)
[01:22:57] <jrabbit> heh
[01:23:41] <brechtm> jrabbit: nice work
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[01:24:50] <jrabbit> I might try and theme up that stability chart thing if mmadia will let me use a haiku logo :p
[01:30:40] <brechtm> mmadia: still have the black frame now?
[01:31:00] <mmadia> no.
[01:31:22] <mmadia> jrabbit : ... only project controlled sites should use the logo.
[01:31:45] <brechtm> mmadia: should still be there in FFox
[01:31:50] <mmadia> and i still need to look at your redesign.
[01:32:17] <mmadia> the black frame wasn't displayed in ffox, brechtm
[01:32:20] <jrabbit> its not a complete redesign its just a bit of a redesign
[01:33:17] <brechtm> mmadia: there should be a drop shadow though
[01:33:27] <brechtm> perhaps ffox2 doesn't support it though
[01:33:35] <mmadia> doesn't look like it.
[01:33:51] <brechtm> ah well, web standards...
[01:34:39] <mmadia> it is ffox 2.0, afterall ;)
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[01:45:50] <jrabbit> brechtm: anywho the haiku-files thing would be good :)
[01:46:09] <jrabbit> though if you know what version of python it runs I might test it on that
[01:46:38] <mmadia>  [hawkeye]$ python -V
[01:46:39] <mmadia>  Python 2.5.2
[01:48:12] <jrabbit> probably ok but I'll check
[01:48:16] <brechtm> jrabbit: this is haiku-files, not ports-space we're talking about, right?
[01:48:20] <jrabbit> (I don't think thats the latets 2.5 though)
[01:48:23] <jrabbit> brechtm: yeah
[01:48:37] <jrabbit> i donno who all is in charge of that :P
[01:48:40] <umccullough> it has pythong 2.4 also, fwiw
[01:48:43] <umccullough> python
[01:48:45] <brechtm> I don't have anything to do with that though :)
[01:48:55] <brechtm> (and not even with ports-space)
[01:48:56] <umccullough> jrabbit, it's a dreamhost server
[01:48:59] <jrabbit> ah
[01:49:22] <mmadia> brechtm : do you have sftp access to ports-space?
[01:49:28] <brechtm> but I'm in favor of Python ;)
[01:49:32] <jrabbit> no root? :P
[01:49:34] <brechtm> mmadia: no, just ports
[01:49:47] <jrabbit> I've got Python 2.5.4 I can check with
[01:50:22] <brechtm> as long as you're not using 3.0, there's a good chance it'll run
[01:50:52] <brechtm> 2.5 is missing the with statement though, but you can import it from __future__
[01:51:51] <jrabbit> yeah it ought to but I donno :P
[01:52:24] <jrabbit> yep it does
[01:52:45] <jrabbit> what serves the rss?
[01:59:48] <brechtm> goodnight
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[02:02:27] <mmadia> which rss, jrabbit?
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[02:12:49] <jrabbit> haiku-files.
[02:13:25] <jrabbit> It'd probably be simpler to replace all the php stuff on it ratehr than putting some to a WSGI server
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[04:45:31] <IIsi50MHz> Got my BaxterY script running via an alias.
[04:46:03] <IIsi50MHz> Had to specify the whole path, which sucks because if I ever move the client to another folder, drive or machine, I have to edit the alias.
[04:46:41] <IIsi50MHz> Alas, I still can't make it send to specific nicks/channels. Only to the current view. >.<
[04:46:52] * IIsi50MHz threatens the docs with the destruction of Alderaan
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[05:27:07] <IIsi50MHz> BaxterScript - a remote add-on for Baxter by Garoo
[05:27:08] <IIsi50MHz> Open this file with any text editor to type your commands
[05:27:10] <IIsi50MHz> BaxterScript - a remote add-on for Baxter by Garoo
[05:27:10] <IIsi50MHz> Open this file with any text editor to type your commands
[05:27:26] <scgtrp> ...?
[05:27:30] <IIsi50MHz> gah!
[05:28:10] <IIsi50MHz> Right-clicked, saw the default app was StyelEdit. Double-clicked...and it ran as a script instead of opening for editing.
[05:29:06] * IIsi50MHz mutters about out-of-sync menu names and stuff
[05:30:38] <IIsi50MHz> Good thing I didn't try that a few more times ^.^;
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[05:31:15] <IIsi50MHz> Hmm, it sent to the current view of each server.
[05:31:42] <IIsi50MHz> On the other server window, the server tab was current view, so it couldn't actually send. Just got erros back from the server.
[05:32:11] <IIsi50MHz> But this means...I can't use it for what I hoped: sending messages to channels/nicks specified in the file.
[05:32:22] * IIsi50MHz sighs
[05:32:38] <IIsi50MHz> Why must every IRC client's script support be dissappointing?
[05:33:18] <scgtrp> irssi's isn't! :D
[05:33:22] <scgtrp> ... besides being perl, of course
[05:33:41] <IIsi50MHz> Either it supports every language that runs on the OS and has no usable docs on how to interface them, or it has a proprietary language that's horribly incomplete/documented.
[05:34:47] <IIsi50MHz> Baxter supports script or compiled language that can do stdio. But it can't receive IRC commands from them?
[05:35:00] <IIsi50MHz> Only echoes to the current view or sends to the current view.
[05:35:59] <IIsi50MHz> Someday I'm gonna have to write a client, I guess.
[05:36:05] <CIA-81> HaikuPorts: scottmc * r1533 /haikuports/trunk/packs/optionalpackages/optionalpackages-0.6-gcc2.bep:
[05:36:05] <CIA-81> Marked tar opensound pe and python as broken, as they have various issues when building. This
[05:36:05] <CIA-81> should now allow the remaining gcc2 optionalpackages in the bep to build.
[05:37:16] <IIsi50MHz> I just need to code often enough that I don't have to keep looking so many things up. (:
[05:38:21] <IIsi50MHz> In old news, what's the BeOS/Haiku menu item "Identify" supposed to do?
[05:38:37] <mmadia> mimetyping.
[05:38:47] <IIsi50MHz> Has no visible effect.
[05:39:10] <IIsi50MHz> Right-click a file, click Identify, the menu closes...and nothing seems changed.
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[06:33:27] <michaelvo> hi augiedoggie!
[06:33:52] <michaelvo> hi kallisti5
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[07:02:44] <jrabbit> https://github.com/bvandenbos/twss
[07:02:50] <jrabbit> Science ^
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[10:01:22] <CIA-81> HaikuPorts: scottmc * r1534 /haikuports/trunk/dev-libs/libxslt/libxslt-1.1.26.bep: Cleaned up directories for libxslt.
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[11:28:16] <CIA-81> HaikuPorts: brecht * r1535 /portlogplugin/trunk/portlog/model.py: fixes adding a new port version
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[11:41:27] <Szikla_Szilard> Hello+
[11:42:42] <Szikla_Szilard> Haiku support in the new Chameleon bootloader: http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/7987/iconnd.png
[11:44:42] <Szikla_Szilard> http://forum.voodooprojects.org/index.php/topic,1882.msg9774.html?PHPSESSID=uldq2705iq1be1799eucmc65sjj4kjfu#msg9774
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[11:45:09] <tqh> nice
[11:48:32] <CIA-81> HaikuPorts: brecht * r1536 /portlogplugin/trunk/portlog/ (templates/portlog_port_add.html macro.py): auto-completion for license field on add port page
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[13:14:39] <threarth> hi
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[13:18:09] <wesbluemarine> hi
[13:18:19] <wesbluemarine> but the ARM port? :(
[13:22:05] <threarth> Does anyone know anything about haiku and intel 945gme?
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[13:27:45] <brechtm> threarth: probably not enough, but shoot
[13:28:37] <threarth> what do you mean?
[13:29:08] <brechtm> threarth: I probably don't know enough about it to be able to help you, but ask anyway
[13:29:51] <threarth> ok
[13:30:09] <threarth> I tried running haiku on an acer aspire one netbook,
[13:30:25] <threarth> with which I use i915 modules with linux
[13:30:46] <threarth> but with haiku i cannot set 1024x768res, only 800x600
[13:31:01] <threarth> so, does haiku work with i915 graphics?
[13:32:54] <brobostigon> threarth: i have i915 gpu, hereon my eeepc, used to work fine, however cant get it to bot anymore with the new ata stack, worked fine with the old ide stack. but the graphics always worked fine.
[13:33:31] <CIA-81> Haiku: tqh * r41294 /buildtools/trunk/jam/ (README.CHANGES make1.c):
[13:33:31] <CIA-81> Disabled the "..skipped x for lack of y..." message as it is not very useful information and hides the interesting info in noise (why it failed).
[13:33:31] <CIA-81> It should probably be a command line option as it might be interesting in some cases.
[13:33:31] <CIA-81> Also added a "Build Failure" at the end if there were failed targets.
[13:34:29] <threarth> brobostigon: hmm, and what can I do to set up it?
[13:36:22] <brobostigon> threarth: lasttime i was able to boot, it worked fine in native vesa, 1024*600, which is my eeepc's native resolution.
[13:36:47] <threarth> brobostigon: ok
[13:37:58] <brobostigon> threarth: sorry i cant be of more help, there,must be a way of setting it manually.
[13:38:18] <threarth> another question is: how can i put down network interface? i need to use only eth and not wlan, I tried with ifconfig but I still saw the dhcpcd settings of the wireless network which i didn't want
[13:38:19] <keenblade> On my dell i3010 keyboard does not work.
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[13:54:52] <brechtm> threarth: I'm assuming it's not using the Intel graphics driver, but the VESA driver... and it depends on the BIOS whether your native resolution is supported
[13:55:29] <brechtm> threarth: to disable wlan, you can move the driver out of the way
[13:55:36] <threarth> ah
[13:56:04] <threarth> brechtm: and to enable using intel graphics driver
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[13:57:07] <brechtm> threarth: /boot/system/add-ons/kernel/drivers/dev/net
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[13:57:29] <brechtm> threarth: I guess the i915 isn't supported... otherwise it should be picked up automatically
[13:58:43] <threarth> brechtm: ok; and to make vesa driver full working i need to check bios support?
[13:59:33] <brechtm> hrm, there seems to be support for the 915 in the intel_extreme driver though
[14:00:06] <brechtm> threarth: the BIOS exports the resolution or not, so not much you can do about it, I'm afraid
[14:01:31] <threarth> brechtm: i understood; with linux graphics works only with i915 drivers, not with vesa, and so I think it's with haiku. How can i give a try to intel_extreme? just unpack it if there is a package?
[14:02:04] <brechtm> is already included
[14:05:41] <brechtm> threarth: check /var/log/syslog
[14:05:47] <brechtm> threarth: and look for intel_extreme
[14:06:09] <brechtm> there's also a command to tell you which gfx driver is in use, but I can't remember it now
[14:06:24] <threarth> brechtm: ok, i've just downloaded the last nightly build so i'm going to reboot and try
[14:06:37] <threarth> brechtm: thank you very much
[14:07:41] <CIA-81> Haiku: tqh * r41295 /buildtools/trunk/jam/ (README.CHANGES make.c): Only write "...patience..." every 5000th target instead of 1000th.
[14:11:57] <brechtm> threarth: "listimage | grep accelerant" should work
[14:13:47] <threarth> brechtm: ok, I'll try it
[14:14:38] <brechtm> will list either vesa or intel_extreme
[14:16:53] <CIA-81> Haiku: tqh * r41296 /buildtools/trunk/jam/ (README.CHANGES make.c): Make the ..patience.. count comparison postinc so it shows one at the start and use every 10k target instead.
[14:17:28] <threarth> brechtm: ok. tnahyou, bye bye!
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[15:09:24] <wieldy_BIOS> hi
[15:09:35] <wieldy_BIOS> can I setup pppoe on Haiku os?
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[15:11:14] <wieldy_BIOS> anybody home?
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[15:15:11] <wieldy_BIOS> does anybody can write to chat?
[15:15:48] <wieldy_BIOS> morons
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[15:18:43] <keenblade> wieldy_BIOS: hi
[15:19:10] <OmniMancer1> keenblade: he already left :/
[15:19:29] <keenblade> wieldy_BIOS: lol
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[15:30:49] <johnny_b> hi
[15:31:44] <keenblade> johnny_b:  hi
[15:34:45] <johnny_b> hi keenblade
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[16:02:07] <mmadia> http://www.haiku-os.org/news/2011-04-30_haikuware_donates_2000_haiku_inc
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[16:07:28] <leszek> hi
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[17:36:01] <Senryu_user1> is there a magic secret to getting and downloading raw patchs and diffs from trac using webpositive
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[17:41:31] <mmadia> yes there is.
[17:42:09] * Senryu_user1 ponder if the secret will remain secret
[17:42:16] <mmadia> on the bottom of the attachment page:  "Download in other formats: \n Original Format"
[17:42:55] <Senryu_user1> yeah, I don't get that option
[17:43:36] <mmadia> http://dev.haiku-os.org/attachment/ticket/7445/app_server-DecorManager-DecorInfo.patch
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[17:44:09] <mmadia> without even being logged in, it's there.
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[17:44:19] <Senryu_user1> hang on link comming
[17:45:01] <Senryu_user1> http://www.filedump.net/dumped/screenshot11304264767.png
[17:45:05] <Senryu_user1> thats what I get
[17:45:18] <humdinger> scroll down
[17:45:20] <mmadia> on the bottom of the attachment page:  "Download in other formats: \n Original Format"
[17:45:33] <Senryu_user1> ahhh
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[17:52:57] <michaelvo> hum.. tickets with patches seems abandoned these days
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[17:53:58] <humdinger> it's all going to hell in a handbasket...
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[17:54:38] <umccullough> mmm... indeed, my last SDL 1.2 patch never made it into haikuports either :)
[17:54:47] * umccullough scoffs
[17:59:02] <Senryu_user1> the lie part is the going to hell portion, its already in hell, the handbasket is the illusion. there is no journey when you start at the destination!
[17:59:18] <mmadia> then take off and leave, Senryu_user1.
[17:59:29] <Senryu_user1> heh ?
[17:59:36] <michaelvo> umccullough: brilliant job!! thank you!!
[17:59:48] <mmadia> there's no place for such negativity.
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[17:59:59] <Senryu_user1> I was being sarcastic,
[18:00:09] <mmadia> i was not.
[18:00:32] <umccullough> michaelvo, i don't think you ever saw that second patch :)
[18:00:49] <umccullough> only scott did, but he said it didn't work right for him...
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[18:59:20] <michaelvo> umccullough: seriously? send to me then! a half of libraries doesn't build because the lack of libpng.pc or libpng-config files
[18:59:31] <michaelvo> in Haiku
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[19:24:14] <umccullough> i don't have any fix for libpng :)
[19:25:15] <umccullough> michaelvo, my second patch re-enables GL directmode rendering in SDL, and works around some cursor patch that was provided during GCI i think
[19:25:36] <umccullough> so, you get a small speed boost
[19:26:20] <michaelvo> I thought that was this http://haikuware.com/components/com_remository_files/file_image_2618/img_2618_01.png
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[19:26:36] <michaelvo> huum.
[19:27:45] <umccullough> michaelvo, that first patch enabled opengl to work, but i had disabled directmode
[19:27:59] <umccullough> the second patch fixed that problem so i could re-enable it
[19:28:06] <umccullough> private message me your email addr
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[19:48:05] <DaaT> hi
[19:48:17] <DaaT> anyone having problems joining open wlans?
[19:50:38] <umccullough> wifi on haiku is still pretty sketchy for me
[19:50:41] <umccullough> depends on chipset
[19:50:49] <umccullough> atheros seems to work ok, but my broadcom is flaky as hell
[19:50:56] <DaaT> atheros here :)
[19:51:17] <DaaT> thing is, i tell it to join my wlan and it just stays there "configuring" till the end of time
[19:51:18] <umccullough> for atheros, i can only get it to join a non-encrypted SSID
[19:51:23] <umccullough> heh
[19:51:43] <DaaT> yeah, I opened my wlan justo to test haiku with it
[19:51:46] <umccullough> i can't get WEP working... which makes me mad
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[19:52:18] <umccullough> i haven't tried in a while - it was working when i went to SCaLE a few months back
[19:52:31] <umccullough> it would join the first open ssid it found though
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[19:52:55] <umccullough> on the netbook, i have to disable drivers to get it working anyway due to IRQ sharing conflicts
[19:53:03] <umccullough> which also annoys me to no end
[19:53:38] <DaaT> i can imagine
[19:54:11] <DaaT> here I when i boot it up it joins an open wlan, which isn't mine :) When i tell it to join mine... *watches grass grow*
[19:54:18] <umccullough> lol
[19:54:26] <umccullough> you're using ifconfig or?
[19:55:42] <DaaT> yes
[19:56:08] <umccullough> yeah, i don't remember having much luck either
[19:56:20] <umccullough> fortunately, where i live, my ssid was the *only* open one :)
[19:56:28] <umccullough> since i live in BFE
[19:56:42] <DaaT> BFE?
[19:58:01] <umccullough> i suppose that's not an international term
[19:58:03] <threecreepio> middle of nowhere
[19:58:12] <umccullough> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfe
[19:58:49] <DaaT> oh ok :)
[19:59:09] <DaaT> 2 other open wlans here, stupid btfon (fonera) and btopenzone
[19:59:13] <DaaT> *shakes fist*
[19:59:16] <umccullough> lol
[19:59:35] <umccullough> these days, an open wlan here will get you raided by SWAT/FBI/ICE
[19:59:50] <umccullough> kick your door in and point guns at you
[20:00:06] <DaaT> nice...
[20:00:32] <DaaT> I wonder if there's a way to tell haiku which wlan you want it to connect to, by default
[20:00:33] <umccullough> yeah, makes me feel "safer"
[20:00:46] <DaaT> I can imagine... sheesh
[20:00:47] <umccullough> yeah, there's a way to specify in some config file
[20:00:52] <humdinger_afk> If you do MAC address blocking and don't allow new MACs to connect, an open network should be OK, right?
[20:01:03] <DaaT> ahh... common/settings/network maybe
[20:01:07] <umccullough> humdinger_afk, that's sort of a temporary hack
[20:01:19] <umccullough> it's still unencrypted traffic, and mac can be spoofed
[20:01:27] <DaaT> humdinger_afk: that's what I had in portugal, mac filter. Here I just use wpa
[20:01:28] <umccullough> someone just has to watch for traffic, and spoof the mac
[20:01:47] <DaaT> but yeah, like umccullough said, can be bypassed
[20:01:53] <umccullough> DaaT, when i used that, it broke my wired connection
[20:02:00] <umccullough> i had to delete the config file to get it working again
[20:02:06] <DaaT> ouch
[20:02:07] <humdinger_afk> Well, I live in a nice and quiet neighbourhood... :)
[20:02:13] <umccullough> same
[20:02:21] <DaaT> no prob here though, haiku doesn't recognize my eth card :)
[20:02:27] <umccullough> lol
[20:02:36] <umccullough> DaaT, axel did a blogpost on how to configure that file
[20:02:48] <DaaT> looking
[20:02:48] * umccullough looks
[20:02:59] <humdinger_afk> looked for it too :)
[20:03:11] <umccullough> ah, he x-posted it on haiku-os.org too
[20:03:11] <humdinger_afk> "gurkensalat"
[20:03:30] <umccullough> http://haiku-os.org/blog/axeld/2010-12-14_almost_not_there_yet
[20:03:30] <DaaT> thx humdinger_afk
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[20:04:49] <DaaT> so I need to create wireless_networks...
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[20:05:18] <umccullough> isn't there a preflet now that sits in the deskbar to show/join networks?
[20:05:27] <DaaT> there is
[20:05:27] <umccullough> or is it broke still
[20:05:32] * humdinger_afk clubs a babyseal and leaves
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[20:05:42] <DaaT> but like in terminal, if I try to join my wlan it does nothing
[20:05:49] <DaaT> actually freezes deskbar
[20:05:51] <umccullough> ouch
[20:06:00] <umccullough> have you checked for shared interrupts yet?
[20:06:10] <DaaT> nope
[20:06:23] <umccullough> if you jump to kdl and type "ints" it should tell you what drivers are sharing what
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[20:06:41] <umccullough> maybe your wlan is shared with usb or something shitty
[20:06:43] <DaaT> how do I jump to kdl?
[20:06:50] <umccullough> let's see
[20:07:05] * DaaT gets the trampoline ready
[20:07:06] <umccullough> alt-shift-sysrq-d ?
[20:07:11] <umccullough> something like that
[20:07:17] <DaaT> thanks
[20:07:26] <umccullough> i can't remember, been a while :)
[20:07:42] <DaaT> :)
[20:07:50] <umccullough> sucks on a laptop keyboard where the prnscreen/sysrq key requires Fn
[20:08:05] <helfujitsu> that drives me made
[20:08:06] <DaaT> true
[20:08:07] <helfujitsu> *mad
[20:08:09] <helfujitsu> this laptop is like that
[20:08:10] <CIA-81> HaikuPorts: scottmc * r1537 /haikuports/trunk/dev-libs/libxml2/libxml2-2.7.8.bep: Cleaned up directories for libxml2.
[20:08:25] <michaelvo> it's time to go to girlfriend's house.. 'till later guys
[20:08:34] <umccullough> helfujitsu, yeah, on one of my machines have to fiddle the keys a bunch before it works
[20:08:39] <umccullough> laptops
[20:08:44] <DaaT> c ya michaelvo
[20:08:45] <umccullough> netbook i think
[20:08:48] <helfujitsu> bye michaelvo
[20:08:59] <helfujitsu> umccullough, i never use "insert", dammit :p
[20:09:05] <helfujitsu> guess i could just change the key bindings
[20:09:19] <DaaT> ok, gonna reboot and see if i can get lucky
[20:09:23] <DaaT> bbiab
[20:09:24] <DaaT> thx umccullough
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[20:11:34] <umccullough> hmm.. maybe it's just Alt-Sysreq-D
[20:11:52] <umccullough> i thinkg shift key doesn't hurt though ;)
[20:12:23] <tqh> iirc you can write kdl or something in terminal
[20:12:43] <umccullough> wow, didn't know that
[20:12:53] <umccullough> i assume that's temporary ;)
[20:13:02] <mmadia> kernel_debugger
[20:13:15] <mmadia> good thing i've a ps2 keyboard hooked up :)
[20:13:45] <tqh> mmadia wins the prize.
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[20:28:12] <MuteClown> has anyone else had problems using haiku from a USB stick? always stops on the third icon when the logo pops up.
[20:28:29] <umccullough> stops?
[20:28:31] <umccullough> as in, crashes?
[20:28:39] <MuteClown> freezes more like
[20:28:42] <umccullough> or, as in freezes
[20:28:49] <umccullough> how long have you let it sit?
[20:28:56] <MuteClown> 15 min atleast
[20:29:00] <umccullough> hmm
[20:29:19] <umccullough> happen to have a serial port on that machine?
[20:30:01] <umccullough> fwiw, i've had plenty of issues, but it's usually either specific to a certain stick, or a certain machine
[20:30:23] <umccullough> Kingston DataTraveler G2 will pretty reliably fail for example
[20:30:43] <MuteClown> sigh mines a kingston
[20:30:54] <umccullough> well, the regular datatraveler works fine for me
[20:30:57] <umccullough> just not the G2
[20:31:28] <mmadia> https://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/R1/Alpha2/ReleaseAddendum#Haikufreezesafterafewsecondsatdesktop  ?
[20:31:42] <umccullough> however, i think mine crashes into KDL
[20:31:45] <MuteClown> just says data traveler nothing else
[20:31:53] <umccullough> mmadia, he said it's not getting past 3rd icon
[20:31:53] <MuteClown> 2.0 USB
[20:31:54] <mmadia> oh, 3rd icon.... nm.
[20:32:00] <umccullough> which i think is the disk icon?
[20:32:17] <umccullough> no, maybe that's the 4th
[20:32:29] <MuteClown> i think its hardware
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[20:32:49] <umccullough> yeah, you're probably gonna need to see the debug output
[20:32:59] <MuteClown> how do i do that?
[20:33:01] <DaaT> in Haiku, finally
[20:33:08] <DaaT> though had to use static, dhcp won't work
[20:33:09] <umccullough> serial port, null modem cable, second machine
[20:33:22] <MuteClown> arggg
[20:33:24] <umccullough> MuteClown, you can also drop into the debug menu before the splash screen and enable console debugging output
[20:33:32] <umccullough> might even find some options there that you can disable
[20:33:38] <umccullough> like ACPI, SMP, etc. to see if those help
[20:34:36] <umccullough> not sure if you can drop into KDL that early and inspect the running teams
[20:34:43] <umccullough> maybe you can, i dunno
[20:35:01] <umccullough> what's the debug menu keystroke now? is it still spacebar?
[20:35:05] <DaaT> anyone has gmail chat working on webpositive?
[20:35:26] <umccullough> gmail doesn't work properly unless you switch to HTML mode i think
[20:35:31] <umccullough> not sure about gchat
[20:35:39] <umccullough> but you can try caya :)
[20:35:51] <DaaT> ah yes, will try it
[20:35:52] <DaaT> thanks
[20:36:03] <DaaT> been a while since I've booted into haiku :)
[20:36:05] <umccullough> and on a totally unrelated note - i finally found my R/C battery charger!
[20:36:08] <umccullough> yay
[20:36:33] <umccullough> DaaT, yeah, same here - i haven't had time  lately :/
[20:36:57] <DaaT> :)
[20:37:06] * umccullough goes to find his batteries to charge 'em
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[20:42:41] <DaaT> caya's working nicely
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[21:32:34] <mmadia> michaelvo : it's best to not use trac for comments like that.
[21:33:07] <mmadia> .... the bug tracker (and commits list) should have the best signal-to-noise ratio.
[21:33:30] <mmadia> if you're curious, looncraz has even been showing up in IRC the past week or so.
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[21:34:30] <DaaT> mmadia, www.xda-developers.com loads ok in web+ over there? Or is it all messed up as well?
[21:34:51] <DaaT> (i'm on rev 577)
[21:34:56] <mmadia> the text isn't rendered as visible.   i might've event filed a ticket about it.
[21:35:57] <DaaT> you have? Cool :)
[21:36:14] <DaaT> kallisti5, here?
[21:39:04] <mmadia> DaaT : https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/7053
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[21:46:57] <DaaT> darn, lost connection
[21:47:04] <DaaT> kallisti5, here?
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[22:38:52] <mmadia> nice, brechtm :)
[22:39:51] <brechtm> mmadia: colorgcc?
[22:39:56] * mmadia nods
[22:40:20] <brechtm> mmadia: the jam output has been driving me nuts too many times :)
[22:40:40] <brechtm> so, there's talk about A3 again?
[22:40:44] <mmadia> you and tqh :)
[22:40:57] <mmadia> meeh... just tossing an idea up in the air.
[22:41:33] <mmadia> my involvement with Haiku, Inc. is causing concern over me aggresively pushing for A3.
[22:42:25] <brechtm> ?
[22:43:14] <mmadia> like Haiku, Inc. shouldn't be controlling the direction of the project, but rather supporting it.
[22:44:31] <brechtm> I don't see the problem
[22:45:19] <brechtm> who's concerned?
[22:45:28] <mmadia> me :)
[22:46:15] <brechtm> mmadia: does your involvement with Haiku Inc. affect your thoughts about Haiku development?
[22:46:37] <brechtm> I mean, wouldn't you be pushing for A3 hadn't you been involved?
[22:47:16] <mmadia> no.
[22:47:45] <mmadia> that second question is tricky though, i feel more obliged by being involved.
[22:48:45] <mmadia> .... as i also do gsoc and realize that a new release would help the potential students, attract new developers, help raise additional funds, identify more issues (or at least which issues are more common)
[22:48:52] <brechtm> well, it's still a democracy, so you have your vote
[22:49:17] <augiedoggie> it's not a democracy, the devs have stated that before
[22:49:27] <brechtm> or meritocracy
[22:49:57] <brechtm> so mmadia's vote weighs more :)
[22:50:16] <mmadia> hence my concern :P
[22:52:31] <brechtm> mmadia: you're right, you should be banned :)
[22:53:12] <|PulkoMandy|> well, everyone says we should do alpha3... it's just that no one wants to be release coordinator
[22:53:18] <|PulkoMandy|> hire someone ? :)
[22:54:39] <mmadia> if people agree to my idea on distributing the review process of changesets, i could do it.
[22:55:04] <|PulkoMandy|> I still don't think reviewing changesets is the way to go...
[22:55:37] <mmadia> mailto:haiku-development at freelists dot org | mailto:mattmadia at gmail dot com
[22:55:51] <|PulkoMandy|> we have about 30 committers with commit access, it should be possible to tell them to refrain from commiting experimental stuff in trunk for two weeks, and then do the release
[22:56:28] <mmadia> think of how many times essential functionality has been comprimised in trunk.
[22:56:49] <mmadia> whether it be networking, cache, optionalpackages, compile errors, etc.
[22:57:09] <umccullough> |PulkoMandy|, reactos *locks* their trunk when prepping for a release, giving only a couple people access to commit
[22:57:23] <umccullough> and reverting any changes that they must
[22:57:43] <|PulkoMandy|> we already hare a couple people with commit access :)
[22:58:32] <|PulkoMandy|> who should be locked out ? all the people with commit acces can be thrusted enough to get it working
[22:58:52] <umccullough> apparently not
[22:59:05] <mmadia> perhaps our bar for commit access is too high?
[22:59:22] <umccullough> there was, for example, a lot of optional package bustage right after the R1/A3 stuff started getting discussed
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[22:59:46] <|PulkoMandy|> mmadia: the problem is there are not enough branches and no way to lock only a part of svn for us
[23:00:08] <umccullough> this is, of course, why DVCS makes more sense
[23:00:08] <|PulkoMandy|> so people get commit acces to everything, or nothing
[23:00:16] <|PulkoMandy|> it can be done with svn actually
[23:00:27] <umccullough> last i heard, we had the ability to lock separate parts of the tree with HTTPS
[23:00:36] <|PulkoMandy|> yes, it's possible
[23:00:40] <|PulkoMandy|> but not used :)
[23:01:04] <mmadia> in a way, i'd like to see a "steady" branch -- something that isn't release-quality, but is a few steps behind trunk.
[23:01:16] <mmadia> eg, it's guaranteed to be more stable than trunk.
[23:01:31] <|PulkoMandy|> well, the trunk should be that actually, why would we want broken things in there ?
[23:01:33] <mmadia> *unless of course a changeset to trunk fixes an issue in 'steady'
[23:01:46] <umccullough> yes, usually the trunk is where stuff lands once it's "stable"
[23:01:52] <|PulkoMandy|> the idea is to use more branches and do all the work there
[23:01:59] <|PulkoMandy|> then just merge back when done
[23:01:59] <mmadia> not broken, but things currently being worked on.
[23:02:04] <umccullough> most projects would develop immature behavior in a branch
[23:02:32] <umccullough> that's one of the things that drives me nuts about haiku - is that it doesn't follow what i always considered 'proper' source control strategy
[23:02:37] <mmadia> ok, so we're back to the 'branching in svn is a pain'
[23:02:43] <|PulkoMandy|> yup
[23:02:51] <umccullough> it might be a pain, but somehow people do it ;)
[23:03:15] <umccullough> reactos has many "bringup" branches for example
[23:03:23] <umccullough> where people are working on entire new pieces
[23:03:31] <umccullough> or refactoring existing ones
[23:03:43] <|PulkoMandy|> another thing is the lack of long-term planning
[23:03:59] <umccullough> you mean like a roadmap?
[23:04:09] <|PulkoMandy|> setting a firm cadence (?) for releases (like every 6 month) would help with that
[23:04:10] <|PulkoMandy|> yes
[23:04:11] <umccullough> scheduled release dates that people must work within?
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[23:04:29] <|PulkoMandy|> so people can see 'hey, there's an alpha in just 3 mnth, I'd rather not break everything in trunk'
[23:04:31] <umccullough> yeah, that seems to push people to "finish by certain date, or postpone to next release"
[23:04:42] <|PulkoMandy|> with no date set people can just keep pushing the alpha away
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[23:05:21] <|PulkoMandy|> right now someone should just take over the decision process and get it done
[23:05:22] <umccullough> i think what's interesting is that when discussions about that kind of stuff crop up, some of the most senior developers tend to avoid/ignore the discussion
[23:05:47] <|PulkoMandy|> we're just bored of votes on various different dates where nothing happens
[23:06:01] <brechtm> |PulkoMandy|: Ubuntu has fixed release dates and every release, a lot of stuff breaks... but maybe that's not related :)
[23:06:16] <|PulkoMandy|> yes, this has drawbacks
[23:06:29] <umccullough> various BSDs do release cycles
[23:06:32] <|PulkoMandy|> but they have a 6 month schedule for full release, which is just insane
[23:06:33] <umccullough> it seems to work
[23:06:43] <brechtm> release by milestones might be better
[23:06:45] <mmadia> yeah, i'm not a huge fan of time base releaeses -- especially since most of Haiku's activity occurs in trunk, not branches.
[23:06:46] <umccullough> ubuntu suffers from a highly-distributed codebase
[23:06:49] <brechtm> but I have no experience with all that
[23:07:05] <|PulkoMandy|> brechtm: only if we lock anything out of the roadmap to get in
[23:07:12] <umccullough> think of the number of packages that must be aggregated to put together an ubuntu
[23:07:22] <umccullough> the number of separate developer teams
[23:07:27] <umccullough> it's amazing that it works at all :P
[23:07:45] <mmadia> if we had a continuously updated branch (be it trunk or a true branch) of relatively stable code, then doing releases should be easier.
[23:07:56] <brechtm> umccullough: but they also make bad deciusions... thinking of PulseAudio
[23:08:03] <umccullough> well yeah
[23:08:10] <umccullough> unity, is IMO, a horrible decision ;)
[23:08:29] *** TomMan81 is now known as TomManAway
[23:08:41] <brechtm> time-based released would require proper use of branching, I think (and thus a DVCS)
[23:08:43] <DaaT> I updated ubuntu on my gf's laptop, I only messed with it for a bit but don't dislike Unity
[23:08:50] <DaaT> of course, it was only 5 or 10mns
[23:08:50] <brechtm> umccullough: indeed
[23:08:50] <umccullough> brechtm, the important part is that they actually make decisions
[23:08:57] <mmadia> to me, the worse bit is excluding features / changesets based on waiting for someone(s) to commit a missing functionality.
[23:09:12] <brechtm> umccullough: every time I upgrade, either audio or bttv or both break
[23:09:27] <brechtm> I don't know why I think it's going to be different the next release :)
[23:09:27] <umccullough> DaaT, i couldn't for the life of me figure out any keyboard shortcuts for unity
[23:09:36] <DaaT> ah
[23:09:42] <umccullough> it seems like it was very much designed for mouse/touch usage
[23:09:48] <mmadia> at some point, we should be able to simply say "This feature is missing. If you are willing to implement it, we will love you -- or at least bring you a cookie."
[23:09:48] <DaaT> well, I didn't know any to begin with, so.... :)
[23:10:22] <DaaT> I don't like their change of the 3 top buttons from the right to the left of the window
[23:10:24] <|PulkoMandy|> mmadia: there used to be progress bars for the various kits somewhere... Maybe trac could be made to do that again
[23:10:34] <|PulkoMandy|> would also help setting up the roadmap
[23:10:47] <DaaT> though it seems it was in preparation for unity
[23:10:55] <umccullough> |PulkoMandy|, i think his point is that there seems to be people "sitting" on features
[23:11:02] <brechtm> mmadia: as much as I like the open source model, I do believe it hinders some things
[23:11:04] <umccullough> features that keep being made "blockers"
[23:11:14] <mmadia> but even with the FutureHaikuFeatures, i feel that there isn't agreement on what should delay R1.
[23:11:16] <brechtm> mmadia: and that's where funding can help a lot
[23:11:36] <DaaT> mmadia: wpa is one
[23:11:37] <umccullough> brechtm, funding seems to not help in every case
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[23:11:51] <brechtm> umccullough: I'm thinking of things that have to be done, but noone wants to do
[23:11:52] <DaaT> or lack of
[23:11:56] <umccullough> at least, very few of the devs seem to have the time/motivation to accept funding
[23:12:05] <mmadia> *limited funding
[23:12:13] <umccullough> limited...yes
[23:12:28] <umccullough> i suppose if we hired someone full time for $8000/month - that would be nice
[23:12:40] <brechtm> umccullough: 9-5 jobs tend to get in the way :)
[23:12:44] <mmadia> heck, i'd sacrafice chickens for that ;)
[23:13:00] <|PulkoMandy|> I may have some free time between my current internship and my next full-time job
[23:13:10] <|PulkoMandy|> in september or so
[23:13:16] <DaaT> mmadia: i'd sell you the chickens... for $8000
[23:13:18] <DaaT> :)
[23:13:21] <mmadia> heh!
[23:13:24] <brechtm> you can fund me for a year when I finish my PhD... but you might want to spend that on someone with some more experience :)
[23:13:48] <mmadia> progress = good use of funds, in my book.
[23:14:43] <|PulkoMandy|> anyway, looking at trac, we still have 33 bugs open in r1a3 milestone, most of them seems to be quite annoying hardware bugs
[23:14:59] <|PulkoMandy|> I'd expect the first step towards a release is to fix them ?
[23:15:12] <mmadia> i'd really like to see more non-C++ contracts --- writing for the Haiku Book,  #7486, setting up Pootle, ...,
[23:15:28] <umccullough> mmadia, but will that further us closer to R1 at this point?
[23:16:01] <mmadia> i could offer arguments for 'yes'.
[23:16:03] <umccullough> i think that's one of the major criticisms of the contract work currently
[23:16:12] <mmadia> or at least "enhance" R1.
[23:16:24] <umccullough> like the pkg management one... a lot of people felt that was "icing" on the R1 cake
[23:16:28] <umccullough> (not me, btw)
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[23:16:42] <umccullough> but i understand their sentiment
[23:16:46] <brechtm> umccullough: documentation should not be underestimated
[23:17:00] <umccullough> brechtm, sure, but is it a blocker for R1?
[23:17:10] <brechtm> umccullough: I would dare to say yes
[23:17:29] <mmadia> anything that could realistically help get a new contributor should be considered.
[23:17:30] <umccullough> there were a couple documentation "proposals"
[23:17:33] <brechtm> umccullough: we'd want to make it very easier for potential developers to contribute
[23:17:43] <mmadia> ... as long as it doesn't deviate from the overall R1 vision.
[23:17:53] <umccullough> brechtm, sure, but... are they going to contribute before R1 is done?
[23:17:59] <umccullough> i think that's a bigger hurlde
[23:18:03] <umccullough> hurdle
[23:18:07] <brechtm> that being said, I think the Haiku website already is a huge help for newcomers
[23:18:18] <brechtm> umccullough: good point
[23:18:51] <umccullough> i think there's far more people waiting to see if Haiku goes R1 than there are waiting for documentation to be written
[23:18:52] <mmadia> brechtm -- honestly, i'd like the drupal website to be completely replaced, but that's another topic ;)
[23:18:55] <umccullough> call it a hunch
[23:19:32] <brechtm> mmadia: but not the content, I hope?
[23:19:48] <umccullough> i imagine a lot of people aren't willing to invest time developing for an "unfinished" operating system
[23:20:10] <jrabbit> Well the trend is moving towards rolling releases
[23:20:14] <mmadia> content consolidation maybe.
[23:20:18] <umccullough> and the funny thing is - the definition of "finished" could be changed if we wanted to
[23:20:20] <jrabbit> so I think that'd be less of a problem soonish
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[23:21:41] <umccullough> jrabbit, you mean rolling alpha releases?
[23:21:48] <jrabbit> kind of
[23:21:57] <umccullough> how is that any different than nightlies?
[23:22:02] <jrabbit> Like even firefox is jumping on the bandwagon
[23:22:05] <jrabbit> umccullough: its not
[23:22:10] <umccullough> ok, just making sure
[23:22:23] <jrabbit> its jsut that people are "devaluing" stable-ness
[23:22:30] <umccullough> mm... maybe
[23:22:50] <umccullough> i think projects are putting effort into releasing their updates - the key is they're doing it in an automated fashoin
[23:23:05] <umccullough> stability should be improtant still
[23:23:19] <|PulkoMandy|> not for alphas :)
[23:23:24] <|PulkoMandy|> we make them way too polished :)
[23:23:28] <umccullough> yeah
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[23:23:37] <brechtm> how up to date are the unit-tests? :)
[23:23:50] <umccullough> up-to-date?
[23:24:04] <umccullough> i think the bigger question is: How complete are they
[23:24:11] <umccullough> and i think the answer is: hardly at all
[23:25:48] <DaaT> night
[23:27:05] <brechtm> umccullough: this is also something which will not be easily done by devs automatically
[23:27:33] <brechtm> umccullough: maybe organize quality assurance code sprints?
[23:28:43] <brechtm> how to enable stack-n-tile again?
[23:29:09] <|PulkoMandy|> setdecor -l
[23:30:25] <|PulkoMandy|> 'night
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[23:32:52] <brechtm> thanks... and me too
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[23:34:59] <mmadia> so basically,
[23:34:59] <mmadia>  trunk should be viewed as "relatively stable", not "bleeding edge".
[23:34:59] <mmadia>  branches should be used more often, even for temporary improvements.
[23:35:00] <mmadia>  	& there should be a way for trunk users to easily test out various branch components
[23:35:00] <mmadia>  alternatively, there should be a 'steady' branch, that is a few steps behind trunk
[23:35:01] <mmadia>  	& has individual components added as they are deemed "stable" (even if stable = requires more feedback than present on trunk)
[23:35:02] <mmadia>  at this point, "branching in svn is a pain' comes up.
[23:35:25] <jrabbit> git :P
[23:36:25] * threecreepio agrees.
[23:37:09] <AmineKhaldi> mmadia: git-svn and hg-svn come to mind
[23:37:28] <AmineKhaldi> ie using local git branches for example -> committing to master into one commit -> svn dcommit it
[23:37:51] <AmineKhaldi> this way you get to keep svn, while enjoying git/hg branches locally
[23:37:55] <AmineKhaldi> (something to consider)
[23:38:05] <mmadia> large commits aren't really appreciated, as they're harder to review.
[23:38:51] <AmineKhaldi> hmm
[23:38:56] <mmadia> in fact, it's better for devs to have their individual changesets to be funneled into one single viewable channel, so that people can comment on them.
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[23:39:07] <mmadia> eg, this path wont work.
[23:39:08] <AmineKhaldi> public review, point
[23:39:14] <jrabbit> for those that need svn its possible to use github :P
[23:39:34] <jrabbit> since it seems most people use another svn tool
[23:39:50] <threecreepio> i'd be one happy camper if haiku went over to github, but that seems like too much to ask for.
[23:39:55] <jrabbit> Maybe that shoyld be checked?
[23:40:04] <jrabbit> who actually uses `svn` svn? :P
[23:40:10] <mmadia> we have our own dedicated server, which can be customized.
[23:40:20] <jrabbit> threecreepio: well if it used git getting it on github would be simple
[23:40:35] <mmadia> http://www.haiku-inc.org/funded-infrastructure.html
[23:40:38] <jrabbit> i.e. just a shell script somewhere :)
[23:40:55] <jrabbit> mmadia: I'm just saying a mirror to github is trivial.
[23:42:03] <threecreepio> well yeah, there are mirrors up on github.. though i was thinking more in regards to actually using the pull request setup, issues etc. for contributing
[23:42:52] <jrabbit> theres also http://gitorious.org/ :P
[23:43:22] <jrabbit> http://gitorious.org/gitorious can be locally deployed for haiku
[23:43:52] <threecreepio> true enough, and bitbucket supplies much the same functionality for hg
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[23:44:28] <jrabbit> I dont know is github uses something public for their svn write acess
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[23:45:34] <jrabbit> https://github.com/blog/644-subversion-write-support
[23:45:44] <jrabbit> maybe I can ask them in their irc
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[23:59:14] <jrabbit> Ok git -> svn kind of is difficult
[23:59:26] <jrabbit> mmadia: maybe a hard number of what commiters use would be useful
[23:59:52] <jrabbit> see how many people we would "force" to use svn at github :P

   May 1, 2011  
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