April 24, 2011 
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April 24, 2011 [00:09:59] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[00:11:59] *** MAX2 has joined #haiku[00:31:03] *** veve-mao has quit IRC[00:40:52] *** heroid has joined #haiku[00:45:27] *** Malmis has quit IRC[00:49:53] *** impy has quit IRC[00:50:52] *** _marc` has quit IRC[00:59:00] <CIA-81> Caya GPL Protocols: barrett * r22 /trunk/protocols/msn/ (Jamfile MSN.cpp MSN.h): MSN Plugin, initial avatars support added[01:00:19] <CIA-81> Caya GPL Protocols: barrett * r23 /trunk/protocols/msn/ (MSNContainer.cpp MSNContainer.h): Missing MSNContainer class[01:04:21] *** Malmis has joined #haiku[01:07:29] *** Barrettt__ has joined #haiku[01:07:35] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #haiku[01:08:03] *** Barrett has quit IRC[01:08:39] *** impy has joined #haiku[01:09:14] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[01:10:38] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[01:10:38] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[01:10:50] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[01:23:00] *** DrHouse|Kerrigan has joined #haiku[01:25:19] *** Barrettt__ has quit 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Will07c5_ has quit IRC[08:40:34] *** impy has quit IRC[08:41:34] *** kPb_in has quit IRC[08:43:52] *** rakshasa_ has joined #haiku[08:54:50] *** rakshasa_ has quit IRC[08:59:32] <CIA-81> Haiku: humdinger * r41280 /haiku/trunk/data/catalogs/ (119 files in 67 dirs): Updated catkeys from HTA.[09:12:04] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[09:30:42] *** Cobi has quit IRC[09:35:40] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[09:36:45] *** TomManAway is now known as TomMan81[09:40:30] *** light has joined #haiku[09:42:08] *** Cobi has joined #haiku[09:52:16] *** TomMan81 is now known as TomManAway[09:55:06] *** S_Arms is now known as S_arms[09:56:11] *** Jessica_lily has quit IRC[09:58:20] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[09:59:54] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[10:09:02] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[10:10:54] *** TomManAway is now known as TomMan81[10:13:09] *** WebDawg has quit IRC[10:16:42] *** WebDawg has joined #haiku[10:32:55] *** vooshy has quit IRC[10:36:44] *** The123king has joined #haiku[10:49:56] *** 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TomMan81[15:17:31] *** PasNox has quit IRC[15:18:06] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[15:18:23] *** Pinaraf has joined #haiku[15:26:31] *** TomMan81 is now known as TomManAway[15:34:09] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[15:51:31] *** um|arc has quit IRC[15:54:31] *** MAX2 has quit IRC[15:57:51] *** negusnyul has joined #haiku[15:58:12] *** MAX2 has joined #haiku[16:18:07] *** kPb_in has joined #haiku[16:20:34] *** dflemstr has joined #haiku[16:36:39] *** kPb_in has quit IRC[16:36:55] *** Jessica_lily has joined #haiku[16:53:05] *** Stellar has quit IRC[16:56:48] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[17:01:11] *** kPb_in has joined #haiku[17:03:13] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #haiku[17:03:15] *** kPb_in has quit IRC[17:09:43] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[17:12:13] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[17:28:09] *** Stellar has quit IRC[17:33:58] *** Will07c5_ has joined #haiku[17:34:16] *** Will07c5_ is now known as Will07c5[17:45:53] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[17:54:54] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[18:12:43] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[18:14:11] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[18:20:32] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[18:20:48] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[18:22:55] *** mmadia has quit IRC[18:27:30] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[18:30:18] *** DrHouse|Kerrigan has joined #haiku[18:31:43] *** rdmr has quit IRC[18:45:19] *** Nies has joined #haiku[18:48:23] *** DrHouse|Kerrigan has quit IRC[18:55:37] *** GeekShadow has quit IRC[18:56:15] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[18:56:15] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[19:03:31] *** augiedoggie has quit IRC[19:03:52] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[19:07:00] *** cpr420 is now known as augiedoggie[19:08:45] *** diegoviola has joined #haiku[19:08:48] <diegoviola> i'm really tired of linux, everything is so half-assed on this OS, nothing works, too many bugs everywhere, heck even kernel bugzilla is dead right now: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/ -- and when lintards think an app is missing their typical attitude is "who needs that anyway?"[19:08:53] <diegoviola> I'm SICK of that.[19:10:36] *** Sh4ring4n_ has joined #haiku[19:14:08] <johnny_b> diegoviola: welcome in the cruel real world :|[19:15:05] *** Sh4ring4n_ has left #haiku[19:23:43] *** bosii has joined #haiku[19:31:03] <diegoviola> Linux lacks direction, everything is just very random[19:31:22] <diegoviola> then when people realize something sucks and they want to improve something[19:31:33] <diegoviola> like X -> Wayland[19:32:12] <diegoviola> idiots like this one popup and spread their shitty comments all over the place: http://swongled.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/nerd46422fm3.jpg[19:32:19] <diegoviola> nvidia doesn't give a fuck about it[19:32:30] <diegoviola> and Linux stagnates[19:33:01] <diegoviola> I'm sick and tired and I should've moved to OSX a long time ago[19:34:05] <johnny_b> true[19:35:17] <umccullough> wow, nice linux hate there :)[19:36:12] <johnny_b> i hope diegoviola won't search similarities whit linux in OSX ;)[19:36:28] <umccullough> haiku lacks some serious direction as well, IMO[19:36:32] <umccullough> <shrug>[19:36:49] <johnny_b> agreed[19:37:09] <diegoviola> well at least it's not stuck with X11[19:37:10] <umccullough> tends to be the nature of FOSS[19:37:44] <umccullough> x11 has a lot of strong points - but they tend not to benefit desktop or mobile usage[19:38:03] <johnny_b> unix sucks for desktop except OSX[19:38:38] <umccullough> a rootless X server is probably going to eventually be needed in order to port some obscure software to haiku[19:39:17] <johnny_b> for example?[19:39:29] <umccullough> good question :)[19:40:06] *** brunobratwurst has joined #haiku[19:40:12] <diegoviola> something else that annoys me about Linux is when I'm going to report a bug and then then users or developers complain that my bug report is too long or has many comments instead of being thankful that I even report something about their crap[19:40:17] <johnny_b> when x11 lands in haiku i'll jump out of boat right at that moment :S[19:40:22] <diegoviola> the more I use Linux the more I can find shitty bugs about it[19:40:38] <brunobratwurst> hello all[19:40:45] <johnny_b> welcome[19:40:48] <umccullough> johnny_b, even OSX has a rootless X server[19:41:10] <johnny_b> who cares?[19:41:21] <umccullough> people porting software to it apparently[19:41:31] <umccullough> since that's all it gets used for[19:41:51] *** bosii has quit IRC[19:41:58] <johnny_b> i'm not a big fan of that kind of ports[19:42:03] <umccullough> it's a lot easier to port something if it already supports x11 than having to write a new video backend for it[19:42:13] <umccullough> fair enough[19:42:26] <umccullough> but that's the chicken-egg issue that new operating systems must deal with[19:42:35] <HeTo> porting software or running some software on another machine[19:42:53] <umccullough> HeTo, that's one of the strong points of x11, but not the one that people care much about[19:42:54] <johnny_b> let me ask: what the point of using a nice shiny new OS with not native stuff?[19:43:05] <johnny_b> not worth the time to bother with it[19:43:11] <umccullough> johnny_b, what's the point of using a new shiny os with no software?[19:43:13] <umccullough> :)[19:43:27] <johnny_b> i prefer native solutions[19:43:50] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[19:44:06] <johnny_b> i don't want to use same stuff on haiku and linux[19:44:11] <umccullough> i prefer usable solutions[19:44:17] <HeTo> on our computer technology course we used a DLX processor simulator that would only run on Solaris/sparc[19:44:22] <umccullough> lack of solutions = lack of usability[19:44:47] <umccullough> to each their own i guess[19:45:13] <umccullough> some people point to google docs and say: "That's a good enough office suite for me" - but that's not a native solution either[19:45:29] <umccullough> <shrug>[19:45:35] <johnny_b> web apps are a different story[19:45:38] <HeTo> and since there are no sparc workstations at the university we used X and ssh to a server to run it[19:45:41] <umccullough> orly?[19:45:53] <diegoviola> sorry about my harsh rant, I don't hate Linux personally, it's just ""[19:45:59] <umccullough> web apps are just another platform like GTK, Qt, wxWidgets, etc.[19:46:11] <diegoviola> sorry about my harsh rant, I don't hate Linux personally, it's just "tough love"*[19:46:26] <johnny_b> i'm not a big fan of them[19:46:34] <diegoviola> I wanted to see Linux prevail since I started using it in 1999[19:46:38] <HeTo> you could display it on your own machine if you had one with an X server and ssh[19:46:41] <umccullough> but some people are - because they're cross platform and available anywhere[19:46:46] <diegoviola> but I realize now it will never happen[19:47:09] <umccullough> diegoviola, in some ways, linux has very much prevailed[19:47:14] <umccullough> just not on desktops so much[19:47:33] <umccullough> it has become pervasive for server, mobile, and embedded usage[19:48:19] <umccullough> it's a win for all FOSS as well[19:48:21] <johnny_b> forget about tux os, focus on haiku ;)[19:48:46] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[19:48:49] <umccullough> haiku shares code with most linux distros ;)[19:48:59] <umccullough> glibc for example[19:49:08] <johnny_b> heh[19:49:19] <johnny_b> switch to llvm immediately :)[19:49:26] <brobostigon> and bsd, the wifi drivers.[19:49:47] <umccullough> almost all of the network drivers are bsd, even ethernet[19:50:06] <umccullough> firewire stack comes from bsd too iirc[19:50:07] <brobostigon> i didnt know that, interesting.[19:50:24] <johnny_b> umccullough: is fw stack in working shape?[19:50:29] <umccullough> dunno[19:50:42] <umccullough> i don't think there's anything to use it either[19:50:45] <johnny_b> or left untouched after gsoc ? :)[19:51:00] <umccullough> it's been touched a little bit since then[19:51:38] <umccullough> only two things i have that support FW are my external HD and my DV camera[19:51:47] <umccullough> the external HD also has USB, so i never use FW for it[19:51:51] <Barrett> http://ezri.nextraweb.com/files/haiku/zuMi/1.png[19:51:54] <johnny_b> without a vision and direction haiku never will achieve the success of beos[19:52:15] <umccullough> no?[19:52:24] <umccullough> i'd say haiku already supercedes beos on most levels[19:52:38] <johnny_b> technically, probably[19:52:58] <umccullough> haiku isn't out trying to coerce vendors to install it on their computers or anything[19:53:49] <johnny_b> they'd be insane to do that[19:54:09] <johnny_b> whatever[19:54:29] <umccullough> it will be difficult to measure haiku's success - just like any FOSS project[19:54:34] <johnny_b> i _really_ miss a clear direction, focus and a strong leadership[19:54:36] <Barrett> umccullough, the media_kit is not a the level of the beos one...at least in terms of latency[19:54:45] <brobostigon> bugs like http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/3933 still kinda need more working out.[19:54:59] <Barrett> : ([19:55:09] *** TomManAway is now known as TomMan81[19:55:25] <umccullough> brobostigon, i'm not sure why that bug is still open - axel has a machien that reproduces it doesn't he?[19:55:28] <johnny_b> and the PR of haiku is really really sucks[19:55:49] <umccullough> johnny_b, ah?[19:55:55] <umccullough> because?[19:56:00] <brobostigon> umccullough: i do aswell, but it still hangs,except for that revision i mention atthe end of that bug.[19:56:16] <umccullough> brobostigon, ticket #5 is the biggest one for me[19:56:33] <brobostigon> umccullough: let e read, onemoment,[19:56:42] <johnny_b> because i feel that haiku doesn't want to attract people[19:56:52] <umccullough> how vague[19:57:09] <umccullough> sometimes i feel like haiku doesn't want to be "finished"[19:57:16] <umccullough> that's my major gripe[19:58:13] <johnny_b> true[19:58:24] <brobostigon> umccullough: the tracker isnt loading, can you elaborate onthe bug youmentioned.please.[19:58:28] <umccullough> as for attracting people - that's sort of the community's job i think ;)[19:58:42] <johnny_b> :D[19:58:56] <johnny_b> i don't think so[19:59:08] <umccullough> johnny_b, as someone who has attended several conferences myself - i know for certain that some of us are doing quite a bit to attract people, mostly developers and technical people who can further the project[19:59:35] <umccullough> it's difficult to make it a full time job and all when we're all volunteers[20:00:12] <johnny_b> planning and organization ;)[20:00:12] <umccullough> brobostigon, ticket 5 is the one about the lack of IRQ assignments in haiku - it relies on the BIOS to set IRQs for each hardware, which then causes sharing conflicts[20:00:18] <umccullough> johnny_b, by who?[20:00:31] <johnny_b> by the leadership[20:00:36] <umccullough> and those are?[20:00:36] <brobostigon> umccullough: ah, yes, i see now, thatis a problem.[20:00:44] <umccullough> haiku is a community project[20:00:58] <umccullough> there's technically no "leaders" other than those who have been around longer than others[20:01:09] <umccullough> anyone can step up[20:01:16] <umccullough> but few ever do[20:01:22] <johnny_b> what happened to koki?[20:01:32] <umccullough> he pissed too many people off apparently[20:01:49] <umccullough> there's plenty of mailing list history if you want to read about it[20:02:13] <umccullough> leadership isn't just a strong opinion[20:02:20] <umccullough> and i think he proved that :P[20:03:08] <johnny_b> :|[20:03:16] <umccullough> sad too, he had a lot of motivation and time[20:03:23] <umccullough> he had many ingredients[20:03:28] <brobostigon> if i canget a revision to boot on my eeepc 900, then i will put a syslog onto 3933.[20:04:21] <umccullough> anyway, i gotta go do the easter thing with my kids - have a great day guys :)[20:04:38] <brobostigon> bye umccullough :)[20:04:49] <umccullough> johnny_b, if you have some ideas about how to push things forward, feel free to email me privately or something[20:05:11] <umccullough> i don't bite too hard ;)[20:05:35] <johnny_b> :)[20:05:50] <johnny_b> i hope so[20:06:31] *** LeandroLuiz has quit IRC[20:06:32] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[20:11:28] *** TMM_ has quit IRC[20:12:14] *** diver has quit IRC[20:12:17] <johnny_b> hi vooshy[20:12:41] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[20:12:52] <vooshy> johnny_b: hi[20:17:52] <vooshy> johnny_b: how's things?[20:18:47] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[20:23:38] *** brunobratwurst has quit IRC[20:23:50] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[20:28:40] *** bjw_ has quit IRC[20:37:01] *** Barrett has quit IRC[20:42:34] *** dflemstr has quit IRC[20:42:59] *** dflemstr has joined #haiku[20:53:06] *** vision2 has joined #haiku[20:53:31] *** vision2 is now known as Visionofthefutur[20:58:58] *** Jessica_lily has quit IRC[21:00:10] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[21:02:18] *** DrHouse|Kerrigan has joined #haiku[21:11:41] *** Visionofthefutur has quit IRC[21:16:07] *** vooshy has quit IRC[21:16:34] *** TomMan81 is now known as TomManAway[21:17:16] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[21:17:40] *** diegoviola has quit IRC[21:32:55] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[21:34:28] *** diegoviola has joined #haiku[21:34:41] <diegoviola> hi again[21:38:25] <johnny_b> hi :)[21:43:20] *** netpositive has joined #haiku[21:52:15] *** Hubert_ has joined #haiku[21:52:54] *** TMM has joined #haiku[21:52:54] *** TMM has joined #haiku[21:58:42] *** brechtm has joined #haiku[21:59:25] <brechtm> hi[22:02:08] *** Jessica_lily has joined #haiku[22:02:34] <brechtm> I'm afraid I corrupted my Haiku partition(s)[22:04:56] *** ereslibre has quit IRC[22:05:19] <brechtm> hrm, not even booting now[22:06:12] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[22:06:12] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[22:06:28] <brechtm> checkfs reported lots of problems, but doesn't seem to be able to fix them all[22:06:36] <brechtm> still reports problems on a second run[22:07:35] <netpositive> :([22:08:10] <brechtm> any other tools besides checkfs I could use?[22:08:55] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[22:10:45] *** Subversor has joined #haiku[22:10:58] <augiedoggie> I'm not sure if axel's old tools still run on Haiku[22:11:07] <augiedoggie> or if they're helpful[22:11:13] <augiedoggie> http://www.pinc-software.de/docs/BFS-tools.html[22:11:45] *** Barrett has quit IRC[22:11:54] <brechtm> possibly, thanks![22:12:29] <brechtm> should've been more careful running Haiku from a partition in VMWare[22:14:55] <netpositive> brechtm: better get an old pc for playing with haiku[22:15:43] <netpositive> like IBM ThinkCentre S51 - small, quiet and haiku compatible[22:16:51] <brechtm> I have it running on an old PC too, but that's not the problem :)[22:17:42] <brechtm> VMWare can save the state of the VM, but that might leave the BFS partition in an odd state[22:17:55] <brechtm> so if I boot from that partition natively, it might cause corruption[22:31:33] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[22:37:06] *** Qeos has quit IRC[22:38:06] <netpositive> brechtm: test it :)[22:38:14] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[22:42:31] <brechtm> I already did, I think that's why I'm in trouble :)[22:44:40] <HeTo> booting from it natively shouldn't cause much corruption but if you resume the vmware savestate after that that will toast it[22:47:29] <brechtm> HeTo: deleting the affected files should makes things all right (on a filesystem level)?[22:48:00] <brechtm> I need to upgrade anyway[22:48:24] <brechtm> just hope my source files aren't corrupted[22:49:19] <HeTo> or at least the way I see it, booting from it natively: replay journal after an incorrect shutdown; booting from the savestate after that: mounting the same partition in two places (because the virtual machine has no clue what the real OS has done and assumes everything is in the same state as when it was suspended)[22:50:34] <HeTo> brechtm: I'm not sure, I wouldn't assume anything about the file system[22:50:38] <brechtm> sounds right to me[22:53:11] * netpositive crossing fingers i'm building my first nightly iso[22:55:03] <netpositive> fail :([22:56:15] <netpositive> can somebody help me in this topic ? :)[23:00:37] *** The123king has left #haiku[23:02:45] <brechtm> netpositive: what's the problem?[23:06:29] <netpositive> brechtm: i managed to crash jam[23:06:42] <netpositive> patience, patience and crash :)[23:06:48] *** ereslibre has quit IRC[23:07:05] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[23:07:29] <brechtm> netpositive: what error does it give you?[23:10:05] <netpositive> nothing. just crashed[23:11:07] <netpositive> the second start ended with vfork: Out of memory[23:13:01] <netpositive> weird[23:13:12] *** J-Ho has joined #haiku[23:16:31] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[23:20:47] *** impy has joined #haiku[23:23:48] <brechtm> in Linux?[23:24:31] <netpositive> no, in haiku[23:27:46] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[23:28:26] *** J-Ho has quit IRC[23:28:32] *** TMM has quit IRC[23:31:16] *** netpositive has quit IRC[23:33:34] *** Barrett has quit IRC[23:33:57] *** netpositive has joined #haiku[23:34:00] <netpositive> re[23:34:31] <netpositive> brechtm: it seems that turning on the virtual memory solved my problem :)[23:36:52] *** helf has quit IRC[23:37:39] <brechtm> netpositive: jam does need a lot of memory[23:37:57] <brechtm> (at least for a project the size of Haiku)[23:38:13] <brechtm> netpositive; how much physical am do you have?[23:38:26] <brechtm> IIRC it needs around 1GB or so...[23:39:13] <netpositive> 1GB(a bit less because of integrated video) and 1GB+ swap[23:42:45] <Hubert_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-IsGfG36hs[23:42:50] <Hubert_> :)[23:56:51] *** brechtm has left #haiku[23:57:15] *** Barrett has joined #haiku