April 22, 2011 
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April 22, 2011 [00:09:43] *** helfujitsu has joined #haiku[00:12:52] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[00:24:57] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[00:28:54] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[00:37:46] *** MAX2 has quit IRC[00:39:06] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[00:55:29] *** diver has quit IRC[01:05:53] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[01:11:37] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[01:12:25] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[01:12:53] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[01:17:04] *** _marc` has quit IRC[01:22:44] *** helfujitsu is now known as disguised[01:23:08] *** disguised is now known as helfujitsu[01:27:52] *** diver has joined #haiku[01:30:34] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[01:49:19] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[01:50:17] *** deesharpe has quit IRC[01:51:03] *** genIII57 has joined #haiku[01:54:55] *** Frek has quit IRC[01:56:46] *** DocPheniX has joined #haiku[01:58:02] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[02:00:30] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[02:01:39] *** impy has quit IRC[02:10:01] *** genIII57 has quit IRC[02:16:52] *** impy has joined #haiku[02:20:21] <mmu> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_netsurf_gopher_vs_fx2_001.png[02:25:39] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[02:25:50] <mmadia> neat[02:27:19] *** GeekShadow has quit IRC[02:29:51] <helfujitsu> hello hello[02:30:09] <mmadia> how's it going?[02:31:19] <helfujitsu> good :D just updated the firmware on my astak and changed the boot/shutdown logos[02:31:36] <helfujitsu> i was going to sell it, but this update sped it up a ton, improved the screen quality, and the fonts look far better.[02:33:24] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[02:35:43] *** mmu has quit IRC[02:46:46] *** MAX2 has joined #haiku[02:57:23] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[03:08:52] *** MAX2 has quit IRC[03:14:27] *** mmadia has quit IRC[03:41:55] *** trn has quit IRC[03:42:46] *** dflemstr has quit IRC[03:46:58] *** trn has joined #haiku[04:04:48] *** Senryu_user1 has joined #haiku[04:05:21] <Senryu_user1> got a bit of a issue with USB thumb drives not being recognized by the system.Any ideas?[04:07:20] <IIsi50MHz> I only had that problem on BeOS, sorry.[04:08:48] <Senryu_user1> it was working, now its not.[04:09:21] *** Nozy has quit IRC[04:09:31] <IIsi50MHz> If you updated to a nightly, that might be why. I don't update Haiku very often.[04:09:32] <Senryu_user1> I don't think its a problem with the usb port, My mouse is on the same hub and it works fine. Just won't detect the thumb drives.[04:10:15] <IIsi50MHz> I know they're working on usb 3.0 support, so we might have some regressions[04:15:04] <Senryu_user1> hmm its a older nightly 40852[04:21:37] <IIsi50MHz> \-:[04:21:39] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #haiku[04:22:30] <Senryu_user1> bit confused unless it doesn't like my new motherboard but I installed to this HDD with this motherboard from USB and other USB devices are working properly. The motherboard does have usb3.0 on it however.[04:34:52] <Senryu_user1> well, off to try a nightly.[04:34:56] <Senryu_user1> cya'll later[04:35:00] *** Senryu_user1 has quit IRC[04:36:50] *** impy has quit IRC[05:08:56] *** S_Arms has quit IRC[05:36:39] *** MAX2 has joined #haiku[05:40:03] *** LeandroLuiz has quit IRC[05:49:30] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[06:43:15] *** doublegg has joined #haiku[06:49:27] *** IIsi50MHz has quit IRC[07:05:34] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[07:17:00] *** phoudoin has quit IRC[07:25:10] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[07:27:42] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[07:30:59] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[07:32:33] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[07:54:49] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[07:56:34] *** lorglas has quit IRC[08:04:05] *** johnny_b has joined #haiku[08:04:11] <johnny_b> hello[08:19:23] *** negusnyul_laptop has joined #haiku[08:20:20] *** negusnyul_laptop is now known as negusnyul[08:24:52] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[08:31:24] *** kPb_in has joined #haiku[08:39:09] *** Will07c5 has quit IRC[08:52:38] <CIA-81> Haiku: czeidler * r41272 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/ps2/movement_maker.cpp: Fix wrong debug output and disable it, might help with #7448.[08:52:54] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[08:59:16] <johnny_b> hi mmu_man[09:23:59] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[09:30:08] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[09:53:38] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[09:53:50] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[10:00:11] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[10:14:17] *** lukove has joined #haiku[10:20:06] *** lukove has joined #haiku[10:24:56] *** lukove has quit IRC[10:28:23] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[10:34:34] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[10:40:11] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[10:52:47] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[11:04:11] *** The123king has joined #haiku[11:11:13] *** kPb_in has quit IRC[11:11:25] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[11:12:57] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[11:17:58] *** impy has joined #haiku[11:20:16] *** peerkoel has quit IRC[11:26:56] *** peerkoel has joined #haiku[11:35:01] *** mrsunshine has joined #haiku[11:46:26] *** kPb_in has joined #haiku[11:49:21] *** DrHouse|Kerrigan has joined #haiku[12:02:04] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[12:18:24] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[12:18:24] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[12:33:34] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[12:44:03] *** johnny_b has quit IRC[12:46:24] *** johnny_b has joined #haiku[12:48:26] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[12:51:34] *** Issac-S has joined #haiku[12:55:02] *** duvjones has quit IRC[12:55:12] *** Issac-S has quit IRC[12:59:00] *** dflemstr has joined #haiku[13:09:30] *** kPb_in has quit IRC[13:15:03] *** kPb_in has joined #haiku[13:22:08] *** Barrett has quit IRC[13:35:00] *** Jessica_lily is now known as Cpy[13:38:35] *** doublegg has quit IRC[13:42:58] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[13:49:32] *** impy has quit IRC[13:52:27] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[14:07:15] *** impy has joined #haiku[14:10:10] *** Barrett has quit IRC[14:19:22] *** diegoviola has joined #haiku[14:19:24] <diegoviola> hi[14:19:52] *** deesharpe has joined #haiku[14:28:25] *** deesharpe has quit IRC[14:33:54] *** deesharpe has joined #haiku[14:45:43] *** phoudoin has joined #haiku[14:45:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o phoudoin[14:46:02] <phoudoin> hi[14:54:54] <diegoviola> what's the graphics system in haiku?[14:55:19] <diegoviola> does it has its own?[14:55:46] <diegoviola> window system[14:56:23] <diegoviola> will nvidia/ati support it, or it does use open source drivers?[14:56:58] <phoudoin> Haiku have it's own graphic system, yes.[14:57:16] <diegoviola> nice[14:57:32] <diegoviola> impressive[14:57:50] <phoudoin> And have his own hardware (open source) drivers, mostly inspired by xorg 2d drivers.[14:58:09] <phoudoin> but some were written from scratch, like the intel_extreme one.[14:58:26] <diegoviola> impressive[14:58:31] <phoudoin> Plus we have a quite good vesa driver as fallback.[15:00:20] <diegoviola> nice[15:00:36] <diegoviola> what do you guys think of the Wayland display server?[15:02:42] <diegoviola> I know it's not Haiku related but I would like to know your opinion since you guys wrote your own display system also.[15:02:44] <diegoviola> :)[15:04:45] <phoudoin> well, if we had 3D hardware support, I guess having a graphical interface composer using it will make sens since long. And Wayland is a very interesting example of one.[15:05:23] <diegoviola> interesting[15:05:58] <diegoviola> I always admired BeOS for being really fast, I think Haiku is great also.[15:07:46] <mrsunshine> well the graphics system is from beos[15:07:51] <mrsunshine> like everything else almost :P[15:08:09] <mrsunshine> (not the source, but the way stuff works) if im not mistaking :P[15:08:48] *** ereslibre has quit IRC[15:09:19] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[15:11:35] *** ereslibre has quit IRC[15:11:52] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[15:13:48] *** ereslibre has quit IRC[15:13:53] *** ereslibre_laptop has joined #haiku[15:13:53] *** ereslibre_laptop has joined #haiku[15:15:05] *** _marc` has quit IRC[15:19:39] *** aphedox has joined #haiku[15:20:21] *** ereslibre_laptop has quit IRC[15:20:38] *** ereslibre_laptop has joined #haiku[15:22:35] *** aphedox_ has quit IRC[15:23:18] *** prkc_laptop has joined #haiku[15:24:18] *** prkc_laptop is now known as negusnyul[15:33:28] <diegoviola> i see, thanks[15:39:38] *** ereslibre_laptop has quit IRC[15:53:33] *** Will07c5 has joined #haiku[15:59:00] <mrsunshine> diegoviola, haiku is designed to be a drop in replacement for R5 so =) after R1 of haiku i guess stuff can start changing (tho drivers seems to require modification to work fully with haiku)[15:59:29] <diegoviola> nice![15:59:41] <diegoviola> keep up the great work, thanks for all your work :)[15:59:46] <diegoviola> looking forward to use Haiku[16:02:32] *** ereslibre_laptop has joined #haiku[16:03:35] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[16:04:57] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[16:05:31] <NeonLicht> Hi diegoviola. :-)[16:11:08] *** LeandroLuiz has quit IRC[16:11:47] <diegoviola> NeonLicht: hi :)[16:12:09] <NeonLicht> How did you hear about Haiku, diegoviola?[16:14:55] <diegoviola> NeonLicht: acquaintances and sites like osnews.com[16:15:27] <diegoviola> I hope more OSs other than Linux, Windows Mac will gain more attention[16:15:53] <NeonLicht> I thought you were interested in languages, not in OSs! :-)[16:16:08] <diegoviola> I always been interested in OSs :)[16:16:12] <diegoviola> and also languages[16:16:22] <diegoviola> :)[16:16:28] <NeonLicht> Same here.[16:16:43] <diegoviola> I like high level languages like Ruby, etc[16:17:01] <diegoviola> but someday I hope to learn C very well also to help OSS projects[16:17:07] <NeonLicht> Oh, I meant human languages, like English, actually, haha.[16:17:14] <diegoviola> oh :)[16:17:17] <diegoviola> nice[16:18:06] *** HaikuBuntu has joined #haiku[16:18:17] <diegoviola> I like Wayland a lot, I hope it will supplant X for desktops, etc[16:18:33] <diegoviola> I mean, it's about time.[16:19:29] <diegoviola> I will download Haiku and try it now[16:19:34] *** HaikuBuntu has quit IRC[16:19:42] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[16:19:51] <surrounder> diegoviola: you still have too much fragmentation in linux, don't think replacing X will help a lot[16:20:26] <diegoviola> yep[16:20:34] <diegoviola> i agree[16:20:52] <diegoviola> Haiku is a lot better in that regard[16:21:10] <surrounder> definitly[16:21:12] <diegoviola> Linux unfortunately didn't took much care in that sense[16:21:17] <NeonLicht> Why should X be replaced? It works very well.[16:21:30] <surrounder> diegoviola: I don't really care about *nix on the desktop[16:22:22] <surrounder> I use it because I work with *nix all day but I don't recommend it anymore for people to use it on their desktops[16:22:34] <surrounder> only if they really want to learn :)[16:22:35] <diegoviola> surrounder: i see[16:23:45] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[16:25:13] <diegoviola> surrounder: but haiku is also unix-like, no?[16:25:18] <surrounder> the only thing ubuntu and other 'desktop' linux distro do is kill off the simplicity and transparancy and exchange it with 'user-friendly' tools[16:25:42] <johnny_b> diegoviola: no[16:25:57] <diegoviola> NeonLicht: X is starting to show its age i believe, take laptops for instance, NVIDIA can't support their optimus gpu's properly because X is not designed for that.[16:26:20] <diegoviola> they will have to rewrite X to support that i believe[16:26:34] <surrounder> that sounds somewhat strange[16:26:46] <surrounder> diegoviola: you have a link confirming that ?[16:27:00] <NeonLicht> Why would anybody buy a laptop with a Nvidea card? :)[16:27:08] <diegoviola> not sure where I heard it[16:27:23] <diegoviola> nvnews i believe[16:27:29] <diegoviola> let me check[16:28:24] <surrounder> diegoviola: https://launchpad.net/~hybrid-graphics-linux[16:29:41] *** Cpy is now known as Jessica_lily[16:30:10] <diegoviola> nice[16:34:11] <diegoviola> I heard it here: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2395714&postcount=112[16:34:15] <diegoviola> a user on nvnews[16:34:32] <diegoviola> sorry, that's not from nvidia or Xorg staff itself, so I apologize :)[16:35:18] <diegoviola> I know Wayland supports this graphics switching though[16:35:34] <surrounder> ah well, we'll see[16:36:47] <surrounder> prefer to use something with good open drivers anyhow :)[16:37:13] <surrounder> *slaps himself for buying a netbook with some crappy ralink in it*[16:38:27] <johnny_b> surrounder: good open source gfx drivers? :)[16:39:01] <surrounder> johnny_b: luckily I don't need much :P[16:39:12] <surrounder> the intel stuff is good enough for me[16:39:55] <johnny_b> intel and the graphics in the same sentence :)[16:41:32] <surrounder> good enough if you don't play games[16:41:39] <surrounder> never had an issue so far[16:44:09] <johnny_b> this applies almost for all integrated gfx solutions[16:44:52] <johnny_b> but intel gma900 works great in haiku[16:45:11] <johnny_b> at least monitor uses its native resolution so i'm pleased[16:46:40] <diegoviola> what software runs on haiku at this point, and how stable is the OS?[16:46:42] <diegoviola> for daily usage[16:46:48] <diegoviola> does firefox, vlc, mplayer and stuff like that runs?[16:46:53] <diegoviola> libreoffice[16:47:20] <diegoviola> software used commonly on desktops[16:48:31] <johnny_b> the whole os + irc client (vision) + webpositive (webkit based browser) uses only 128MB on my haiku machine[16:48:50] <johnny_b> i prefer native apps[16:49:53] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[16:50:02] <surrounder> johnny_b: that is really nice[16:50:11] <johnny_b> i haven't issues with stability[16:50:29] <johnny_b> surrounder: it's a ThinkCentre S51 with 1GB memory[16:50:31] <diegoviola> nice[16:50:31] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[16:50:58] <johnny_b> yep, really cool :)[16:50:59] <surrounder> still need to install it in a vm sometime[16:51:40] <johnny_b> my opinion is that haiku (like beos) shines really with native apps[16:51:49] <surrounder> agreed[16:52:04] <johnny_b> so i'm not a big fan of half-ass porting[16:54:03] *** Barrett has quit IRC[16:54:04] <phoudoin> diegoviola: older firefox and vlc ports runs fine on Haiku[16:54:50] <phoudoin> But Haiku has now native browser (WebPositive, using webkit like Chrome, Safari and android does) and his own MediaPlayer app[16:55:40] <phoudoin> MediaPlayer is now a very decent player, but still lacks streaming and DVD navigation.[16:56:16] <phoudoin> The backend is media kit, which rely a lot on ffmpeg, like VLC does.[16:56:45] <diegoviola> phoudoin: nice[16:56:50] <diegoviola> i will try those[16:56:57] <diegoviola> what version of haiku should i get?[16:57:01] <diegoviola> if i'm trying it for first time[16:57:10] <diegoviola> and should i run it on real hardware or vm?[16:58:10] <phoudoin> a nightly image (haiku-files.org), and both real hardware and vm is supported (the former being better for the end-user experience ;-) )[16:58:11] <johnny_b> phoudoin: really? mediaplayer presented a nice crash for me yesterday :)[16:58:24] <johnny_b> diegoviola: i vote for real hw[16:58:46] <diegoviola> ok i will try[16:58:47] <diegoviola> thanks guys[16:58:58] <johnny_b> welcome :)[16:59:05] <phoudoin> like latest VLC for Windows which goes crazy CPU eater on some mkv I've at home. Okay, it's not a crash, just a bug ;-)[16:59:54] <phoudoin> johnny_b: I guess you do have capture the crash backtrace and rush to find an existing ticket about it or file a new one, right ? :-)[17:03:07] <diegoviola> so haiku is not unix-like?[17:03:13] <johnny_b> phoudoin: i made a screenshot about the crash and backtrace but i not feel really competent with tickets[17:03:21] <johnny_b> diegoviola: no, it's not[17:03:40] <johnny_b> it has bash and posix layer[17:03:57] <diegoviola> johnny_b: i recall looking at the file system hierarchy and it reminded me from unix a bit[17:04:11] <diegoviola> from the terminal[17:04:16] <diegoviola> not sure if that was beos or[17:04:25] <phoudoin> it was[17:04:34] <phoudoin> but it's not an Unix operating system[17:04:38] <diegoviola> ok[17:05:06] <diegoviola> what's the difference please?[17:05:22] <phoudoin> But it's far more Unix-similar than any other non-unix operating system I known, FWIW[17:06:08] <phoudoin> I doesn't conform to what is required to be called an Unix.[17:06:29] <diegoviola> nice[17:06:54] <phoudoin> most obviously, the file system layout is not a Unix one.[17:08:04] <diegoviola> i wish more people would move on from unix, it seems that most people is stuck with the mentality that unix is the ultimate philosophy and design of OSs[17:08:37] <surrounder> it is imho, so far[17:08:51] <diegoviola> sure unix is nice, i like pipes and the shell, etc[17:09:01] <surrounder> it runs EVERYWHERE and for servers it's still the way go[17:09:12] <diegoviola> sure but for desktop?[17:09:40] <surrounder> 16:20 surrounde| diegoviola: I don't really care about *nix on the desktop[17:09:52] <surrounder> only MacOSX did/does alright[17:09:59] <diegoviola> I don't like having to mess around with X11 to start my graphics system[17:10:07] <surrounder> same here[17:10:52] <diegoviola> UNIX is great, don't get me wrong[17:11:04] <surrounder> indeed[17:11:12] <surrounder> but not the clickety modern incarnations[17:11:51] <diegoviola> I like the evolution of programming languages, ie. the high level languages that are appearing these days, I wish it would be the same with OSs also[17:12:15] <diegoviola> OSs seems to be too stuck with the 80s mentality[17:12:28] <diegoviola> nothing wrong with that though[17:12:29] <diegoviola> :D[17:12:40] <surrounder> think desktops will die out anyhow in favour of dedicated (media) machines and stuff like tablets[17:12:56] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[17:13:09] <phoudoin> and Haiku is not that well prepared to such targets either.[17:13:28] <phoudoin> prepared = ready[17:13:52] <diegoviola> surrounder: it will take a while i think[17:13:56] <diegoviola> surrounder: for that to happen[17:13:58] <diegoviola> it's happening already[17:14:09] <diegoviola> but 90% of the world still have a big computer on their desk[17:14:16] <diegoviola> and laptops/netbooks also[17:14:51] <diegoviola> the webapps will help with that i think[17:14:51] <surrounder> yes, but what I don't really get is that a large portion of the linux community still wants to 'conquer' the desktop[17:14:54] *** heroid has joined #haiku[17:15:16] <diegoviola> surrounder: they are obsessed i think[17:15:17] <diegoviola> :D[17:15:30] <surrounder> diegoviola: yes, webapps are nice for that, and that's where unix shines - in the datacentre[17:15:32] <diegoviola> they want to beat Microsoft[17:15:54] <diegoviola> yes[17:16:01] <surrounder> by being a extremely divided bunch of clowns? :P[17:16:05] <surrounder> *an[17:16:15] <diegoviola> lol[17:17:17] *** S_Arms has joined #haiku[17:18:21] <diegoviola> i believe desktops will still be there for those people who do work, etc[17:18:25] <diegoviola> like programming, etc[17:18:34] <diegoviola> programming on a small form factor is probably annoying[17:18:48] <diegoviola> but i believe we'll see a lot of those smaller devices[17:18:53] <diegoviola> the next years[17:19:46] <johnny_b> geez, more small devices[17:20:00] <johnny_b> mobile phones are almost useless now[17:20:08] <diegoviola> yep[17:20:21] <johnny_b> and it can be even more ... such a bright future :|[17:20:27] <johnny_b> worse[17:27:24] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[17:32:30] *** GeekShadow has quit IRC[17:33:42] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[17:34:27] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[17:35:10] *** kPb_in has quit IRC[17:38:00] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[17:40:53] *** kPb_in has joined #haiku[17:48:23] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[17:49:24] *** LeandroLuiz has quit IRC[17:59:41] *** geoid has joined #haiku[17:59:55] <geoid> greetz[18:00:21] <geoid> tell me, should haiku run on an Intel mac?[18:02:37] <GeneralMaximus> it doesn't work on mine.[18:07:15] *** geoid has quit IRC[18:10:51] *** shanxS has joined #haiku[18:17:33] *** Barrett has quit IRC[18:24:34] *** The123king has quit IRC[18:27:14] *** ereslibre_laptop has quit IRC[18:27:39] *** ereslibre_laptop has joined #haiku[18:31:04] *** ereslibre_desk has joined #haiku[18:31:59] *** ereslibre_laptop has quit IRC[18:33:07] *** Pinaraf has joined #haiku[18:33:51] *** phoudoin has quit IRC[18:36:20] *** ereslibre_uni has joined #haiku[18:37:16] *** ereslibre_desk has quit IRC[18:40:53] *** ereslibre_uni has quit IRC[18:41:11] *** ereslibre_uni has joined #haiku[18:42:34] *** Jessica_lily has quit IRC[18:43:30] *** Jessica_lily has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[18:44:34] *** Jessica_lily has quit IRC[18:45:04] *** ereslibre_uni has quit IRC[18:45:22] *** GeorgeZZ has joined #haiku[18:45:27] *** GeorgeZZ has left #haiku[18:45:34] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[18:52:31] *** ereslibre_uni has joined #haiku[18:52:31] *** ereslibre_uni has joined #haiku[19:03:17] *** duvjones has joined #haiku[19:04:54] *** Issac-S has joined #haiku[19:05:07] *** duvjones has quit IRC[19:11:40] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[19:12:30] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[19:12:35] <plfiorini> hello[19:12:58] *** PasNox has quit IRC[19:17:35] *** mmu has joined #haiku[19:18:58] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[19:22:18] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[19:22:56] *** LeandroLuiz has quit IRC[19:26:56] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[19:31:17] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[19:43:57] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[19:46:59] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[19:49:55] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[19:51:02] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[19:51:48] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[19:57:38] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[20:00:30] *** Jessica_lily has joined #haiku[20:03:01] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[20:10:32] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[20:28:58] *** Cobi has quit IRC[20:30:13] *** impy has quit IRC[20:30:33] *** impy has joined #haiku[20:32:23] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[20:35:15] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[20:35:41] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[20:39:20] *** Barrett has quit IRC[20:41:52] *** humdinger has quit IRC[20:50:57] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[20:51:22] *** vooshy has quit IRC[20:51:56] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[20:54:35] *** AmineKhaldi is now known as Amine|aminekhald[20:55:43] *** Amine|aminekhald is now known as ReactOS|Amine[20:55:47] *** Jessica_lily has quit IRC[21:00:46] *** Jessica_lily has joined #haiku[21:03:34] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[21:05:42] *** Barrett has quit IRC[21:06:48] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[21:08:55] *** mmadia is now known as haiku|mmadia[21:09:32] *** stippi has joined #haiku[21:09:33] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[21:10:15] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[21:11:18] *** GeekShadow has quit IRC[21:14:10] *** stippi is now known as haiku|stippi[21:15:44] *** haiku|mmadia is now known as mmadia[21:16:01] *** ReactOS|Amine is now known as AmineKhaldi[21:16:41] *** haiku|stippi is now known as stippi[21:17:51] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[21:25:41] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[21:27:40] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[21:34:52] *** DrHouse|Kerrigan has quit IRC[21:35:05] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[21:35:44] *** phoudoin has joined #haiku[21:35:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o phoudoin[21:37:32] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[21:38:03] *** Barrett has quit IRC[21:39:17] *** Issac-S has quit IRC[21:39:39] *** duvjones has joined #haiku[21:44:20] <diegoviola> where do i get the nightly images?[21:45:10] <vooshy> diegoviola: www.haiku-files.org[21:46:50] <diegoviola> thanks[21:49:09] <AlienSoldier> what is the cheapest PCI soundcard supported in Haiku? I am at my wits end with Opensound.[21:49:32] <phoudoin> builtin HDA[21:49:46] <phoudoin> oh, wait...[21:50:18] <AlienSoldier> buildin HDA work on my acer aspice one, but i don't have sound on any of my other PCs[21:50:37] <AlienSoldier> they are all PIII and P4 era PC[21:51:45] <pulkomandy> that's likely AC97, not HDA ...[21:51:53] <AlienSoldier> i sure could trow some money for C-media or soundblaster native drivers[21:52:02] <AlienSoldier> like those on R5[21:52:03] <pulkomandy> or some worse weird things for the PIII one ...[21:52:08] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[21:52:36] <AlienSoldier> pulkomandy the other PC don't have on board audio chip at all[21:53:05] <pulkomandy> write a pc speaker driver ?[21:53:24] <pulkomandy> there was some for windows 3.1 or 95... very bad quality and using up all the CPU :)[21:53:49] <AlienSoldier> i need top quality, those are the PC i use all the time[21:54:53] *** vooshy has quit IRC[21:54:58] <pulkomandy> anyway, writing a driver isn't too hard, so you can buy any PCI board... buy two and send one to an haiku developper :)[21:55:32] <phoudoin> or both :-) ![21:55:44] *** aphedox has quit IRC[21:55:44] *** stippi has quit IRC[21:55:53] <AlienSoldier> well, soundblaster card are like mold, it exist in many basement[21:55:57] *** Will07c5_ has joined #haiku[21:56:11] *** aphedox has joined #haiku[21:56:17] <AlienSoldier> i just don't get why we don't have such a driver already[21:56:37] <pulkomandy> plain old soundblaster are ISA card, not sure that works in Haiku[21:56:40] <AlienSoldier> it make a whole class/era of computer unusable with haiku[21:56:42] <pulkomandy> no idea about the PCI ones[21:57:21] <diegoviola> how do you install software on haiku? are all the programs in haiku linked against system libraries also, like on linux?[21:57:26] <AlienSoldier> i was refering to the PCI ones, i have one of the ISA that said that gave quite more quality sound than the PCI (less hiss)[21:57:51] <phoudoin> emu1k cards should be very cheap too, and we have a driver for that[21:58:22] <phoudoin> diegoviola: yes, and there is usually *no* install step[21:58:38] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[21:58:59] <diegoviola> phoudoin: no install step, so how do you install software?[21:59:01] <AlienSoldier> phoudoin i am not a sound card guru, are those emu1k ones related to audigy ?[21:59:03] *** Will07c5 has quit IRC[21:59:21] <phoudoin> for drivers, most often there is a symlink named "drop xxxx here" asking you to drop the "xxx" file here, and hop, the driver binary file is where the kernel will detect and load it.[21:59:44] <phoudoin> AlienSoldier: I'm not either.[21:59:51] <AlienSoldier> hehe[21:59:55] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[22:00:24] <phoudoin> SBLive/Audigy, yes[22:00:48] <diegoviola> no install step, please tell me how do you install software then[22:00:50] <diegoviola> or you don't install it?[22:01:07] <AlienSoldier> all my soundblaster are of the ensonic flavor i think, i will have to try later card i guess[22:01:14] <phoudoin> you don't, you just place it where you want[22:01:33] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[22:02:01] <diegoviola> ok and the software that you download comes bundled with all the libraries or?[22:03:39] *** zz_Kaimei is now known as Kaimei[22:05:47] *** Jessica_lily has quit IRC[22:24:59] *** Barrett has quit IRC[22:26:58] <AlienSoldier> phoudoin ok i finished reading on those card. About the EMU10K1 diver, is it as a separate driver or is it in the image?[22:30:01] <pulkomandy> diegoviola: that's the problem[22:30:20] <pulkomandy> the idea is as Haiku is feature rich already, you shouldn't need other libs[22:30:34] <pulkomandy> so eiter software bundle them anyway or you have to track them yourself[22:30:48] <pulkomandy> that's why we are working on a package manager[22:31:02] <pulkomandy> but trying to keep it simple and not enforcing anything[22:32:18] <AlienSoldier> diegoviola most app will work in their own directory. If we take VLC for example, you unzip it, open the VLC directory, double click the VLC binary and woila, the app is running.[22:32:55] <diegoviola> nice[22:34:29] <AlienSoldier> diegoviola on R5 there was a lib pack that contained most of the lib needed by ported app. Once that was installed, you never bothered to hunt a lib ever again.[22:35:18] <phoudoin> AlienSoldier: the emuikx driver is in the image already[22:35:29] <phoudoin> just plug a card and reboot[22:36:07] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[22:36:25] <AlienSoldier> ok, thank you, i think i should be able to hunt one down (i only have soudblaster 64, 128 and c-media at the moment)[22:37:05] <diegoviola> AlienSoldier: i see, i believe part of why Windows and OSX are successful is because software is very easy to install on those platforms, sure it might be insecure and duplication and blah blah blah, but most people really don't care, they just want to install their programs and be done with it.[22:37:53] <diegoviola> Linux on the other hand link everything against a single lib but good luck trying to downgrade a app[22:38:22] <diegoviola> people other than geeks hate it[22:38:43] <AlienSoldier> Amiga OS also used lot of lib, but most where coherant and almost never changed version, it was really nice to install amiga stuff[22:39:15] *** heroid has quit IRC[22:39:18] <diegoviola> nice[22:39:42] <AlienSoldier> i am quite a geek and i don't like to install stuff in linus, for me linux distro are all separate OS[22:39:56] <AlienSoldier> once i treat them like that it make lot more sense[22:40:12] <AlienSoldier> *linux[22:41:06] <diegoviola> Linux is fine if you want to use the software that your distro ships by default[22:41:31] <diegoviola> if you want to downgrade you'll be in hell[22:42:25] *** duvjones has quit IRC[22:42:52] <AlienSoldier> in real unix system is was quite nice to install stuff also, but then i was also treating them all as distinct OS[22:43:47] <AlienSoldier> i used Atari system, but i never owned one so i don't know how the installing was.[22:44:30] <CIA-81> Haiku: phoudoin * r41273 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/net/DHCPClient.cpp:[22:44:30] <CIA-81> Made message retransmission delay +1/-1 randomized as required per RFC2131[22:44:30] <CIA-81> spec (see paragraph 4.1)[22:44:43] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[22:44:44] <diegoviola> I use Arch Linux and the other day I had to downgrade MySQL from 5.5 to 5.1, it was a complete PITA to downgrade. I tried to uninstall MySQL 5.5 and removing that wanted to remove my Desktop Environment also.[22:44:48] <diegoviola> fuck that shit[22:45:01] <diegoviola> I had to compile MySQL 5.1 under /opt and make it work there[22:45:22] <diegoviola> a complete PITA I tell you[22:45:36] <HeTo> a KDE user, I see[22:46:06] <diegoviola> I can use whatever DE I want, or WM, it doesn't matter to me[22:46:21] <diegoviola> I'm not fan of any DE or WM[22:46:26] <diegoviola> they all suck[22:46:30] <diegoviola> X sucks[22:46:42] <HeTo> I don't know about Arch but with Debian I would have tried to build the older version from source, then downgrading it from the package manager (without separate uninstallation/reinstallation steps)[22:47:08] <HeTo> of course that would fail if the KDE packages actually require a newer MySQL but there's not much you can do about that[22:47:20] *** mmadia has quit IRC[22:47:28] <HeTo> diegoviola: AFAIK KDE is the only DE that requires MySQL, although I could be wrong[22:47:41] <HeTo> at least I don't remember hearing GNOME requiring it[22:47:49] <diegoviola> Gentoo makes it "easier" to downgrade with their ebuilds but it still sucks because if your whole system is compiled against package A and you want to downgrade package A you still have to rebuild the entire system which takes LOTS of time.[22:50:31] <diegoviola> system libraries is fine until you have to downgrade[22:50:40] <diegoviola> ok sorry for my rant[22:54:03] <diegoviola> X, KDE and GNOME are all fine, all WM/DE's[22:54:14] <diegoviola> sorry[22:54:15] <diegoviola> :)[22:55:15] <NeonLicht> X is great, KDE and Gnome both badly suck. :)[22:58:49] <diegoviola> what are your views on Wayland?[23:07:01] <NeonLicht> I don't know it well, so I don't really have anything to say about it.[23:10:47] <diegoviola> I like system libs and Linux, it's just that it's a pain to downgrade something sometimes when it should be a simple task[23:11:38] <diegoviola> but then again I don't need to downgrade too often[23:15:16] <diegoviola> NeonLicht: Wayland is a new display system for Linux[23:16:08] <diegoviola> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs9Ly5ldR9A[23:16:21] <diegoviola> it can host Xorg for running X11 apps[23:16:52] <NeonLicht> I know, diegoviola, but I don't know it well enough to give an educated opinion.[23:16:59] <diegoviola> np[23:17:26] <diegoviola> I hope it does replace X on desktops systems[23:17:52] <jrabbit> X11 level tools do suck :)[23:21:56] <diegoviola> I don't like X11 really, the same way I don't like ALSA, why on earth a display system would require me to make configurations on /etc/X11/xorg.conf it's beyond me, it's like if X didn't had a brain.[23:22:15] <diegoviola> I don't have problems to configure that, I've been doing that for the last 8 years or something[23:22:20] <diegoviola> but it's lame[23:22:33] <diegoviola> the same way that it's lame to configure ALSA's ~/.asoundrc[23:22:37] <diegoviola> yikes[23:22:46] <HeTo> I hope they don't put client-side decoration into Wayland[23:23:18] <HeTo> that's maybe the biggest annoyance of Windows window management[23:23:25] <diegoviola> these things are improving though, with HAL and PulseAudio, etc[23:24:08] <HeTo> diegoviola: you shouldn't have to even write xorg.conf nowadays[23:24:19] <HeTo> or have it at all[23:24:48] <HeTo> that said, when things don't go as they should, it's still nicer to have the possibility than not have, although of course that's no excuse for when things do go wrong[23:25:30] <diegoviola> sure[23:26:12] <diegoviola> HeTo: unfortunately some drivers like NVIDIA still requires that I have a xorg.conf, otherwise they won't start at all[23:26:25] <diegoviola> but i don't hate to write them myself[23:26:40] <diegoviola> when i install the nvidia driver it will install a file like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf[23:26:52] <diegoviola> with a very minimal config[23:27:13] <diegoviola> https://gist.github.com/937725[23:27:19] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[23:27:37] <diegoviola> it's much better than before but still it's not as automatic[23:30:23] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[23:30:37] <diegoviola> if i remove that file X won't start at all[23:30:38] *** Stellar has quit IRC[23:30:45] <diegoviola> it will complain that i don't have the vesa or nv driver[23:30:48] <diegoviola> when i have the nvidia one[23:31:04] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[23:31:49] <diegoviola> but anyways :)[23:32:03] <diegoviola> does the Haiku graphics system requires a configuration like that also?[23:32:41] <CIA-81> Haiku: phoudoin * r41274 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/net/ (NetServer.cpp Settings.cpp):[23:32:41] <CIA-81> Check node monitoring messages to handle them only when it make sense.[23:32:41] <CIA-81> Before, the "interfaces" settings file creation/removal notification was[23:32:41] <CIA-81> leading to a attempt to configure/remove an interface named[23:32:41] <CIA-81> "/boot/common/settings/network/interfaces"![23:32:42] <CIA-81> Could help fixing issue #7475.[23:51:11] <CIA-81> Haiku: phoudoin * r41275 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/net/DHCPClient.cpp: Add dhcp_message::FindOption(), to retrieve a specific option.