April 16, 2011 
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April 16, 2011 [00:03:58] *** kirilla has quit IRC[00:05:49] <CIA-81> HaikuPorts: scottmc * r1509 /haikuports/trunk/app-text/libpaper/libpaper-1.1.24.bep: Added aclocal --install option to libpaper bep.[00:05:51] *** Nico-izo has quit IRC[00:06:33] *** Nico-izo has joined #haiku[00:08:05] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[00:17:45] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[00:29:27] *** augiedoggie has joined #haiku[00:29:52] *** Nico-izo has quit IRC[00:29:56] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[00:31:37] *** Nico-izo has joined #haiku[00:33:35] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[00:34:33] <CIA-81> HaikuPorts: scottmc * r1510 /haikuports/trunk/dev-util/gperf/gperf-3.0.4.bep: Cleaned up directories for gperf.[00:39:09] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[00:41:21] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[00:44:41] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[00:53:36] *** gabrielh has joined #haiku[00:55:48] <gabrielh> When reading the spec for EHCI numbers are almost always listed with a trailing letter which is either h or b[00:55:57] <gabrielh> e.g. 00b[00:56:05] <gabrielh> or 16h[00:56:14] <gabrielh> do these stand for binary and hexadecimal?[00:56:35] <gabrielh> Looks that way to me, but I'd like to be sure.[00:58:16] <IIsi50MHz> Yes, this is defacto standard.[00:58:55] <gabrielh> Thanks[00:59:01] <IIsi50MHz> Bitte[01:05:00] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[01:09:54] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[01:10:18] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[01:14:09] *** diver has left #haiku[01:15:07] *** diver has joined #haiku[01:16:46] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[01:19:05] *** diver has left #haiku[01:21:35] *** diver has joined #haiku[01:23:02] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[01:24:02] <augiedoggie> ther goes the neighborhood :P[01:24:07] <augiedoggie> +e[01:24:20] <helfujitsu> hi IIsi50MHz[01:24:23] <mmadia> yargh[01:24:27] <helfujitsu> morning, mmadia :D[01:24:37] <mmadia> might as well be :P[01:25:41] <helfujitsu> lovely weather here ^_^[01:25:58] <helfujitsu> its storming[01:31:31] *** mmadia has quit IRC[01:31:39] *** GeekShad0w has joined #haiku[01:33:18] *** GeekSh4dow has joined #haiku[01:33:57] *** Alam_Squeeze has quit IRC[01:35:17] *** GeekShadow has quit IRC[01:36:48] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[01:37:32] *** GeekShad0w has quit IRC[01:49:22] *** brechtm has left #haiku[02:00:14] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[02:00:26] *** mmadia has quit IRC[02:00:32] *** [r4] has quit IRC[02:04:38] *** KnutBluetooth has quit IRC[02:04:46] *** Barrett has quit IRC[02:07:10] <IIsi50MHz> allo helfujitsu[02:17:51] <gabrielh> If a value is listed as Reserved in a spec, does that mean we should consider this value invalid?[02:18:44] <gabrielh> I mean, if I get passed this value should I stop execution and produce an error?[02:18:52] <scgtrp> as in an enumeration value or something? or a field somewhere?[02:18:59] <scgtrp> ah[02:19:01] <gabrielh> in a field somewhere[02:19:13] <gabrielh> valid values like between 00b-11b[02:19:15] <scgtrp> if the field itself is reserved, just ignore the value[02:19:18] <gabrielh> 11b is listed as Reserved[02:20:06] <scgtrp> i'd consider that an error condition[02:20:11] <IIsi50MHz> It means you shouldn't use that value for yourself because its meaning has not been defined.[02:20:26] <scgtrp> IIsi50MHz: he's asking about if something else gives him that[02:20:31] <gabrielh> Ok, so receiving that value would constitute an error.[02:20:41] <IIsi50MHz> Not necessarily.[02:20:46] <gabrielh> I'm asking a device.[02:21:05] <scgtrp> if anything uses that it'll be in the future and hopefully the driver will have been updated by then[02:21:07] <IIsi50MHz> What if your code gets run after the reserved value is defined as valid?[02:21:11] <gabrielh> The thing is, a mask is already applied so I'm only going to get values that lie between 00b-11b[02:21:14] <scgtrp> s/uses that/uses that and isn't on fire/[02:21:18] <gabrielh> All values are defined except for 11b which is reserved.[02:22:05] <gabrielh> Yeah, that's my worry.[02:22:17] <gabrielh> I would say that I should allow the value.[02:22:29] <scgtrp> unless there's some sensible default action you can do, i'd produce an error[02:22:31] <gabrielh> But I've been asked by someone to write some code that checks for valid values.[02:22:59] <scgtrp> a reserved value is invalid until it's not reserved anymore[02:23:08] <gabrielh> Alright.[02:23:13] <gabrielh> That makes sense.[02:23:17] <gabrielh> I don't think there'd be a good default value.[02:23:33] <gabrielh> although there's a clear pattern[02:23:39] <gabrielh> 00b = 1024 elements[02:23:44] <gabrielh> 01b = 512 elements[02:23:49] <gabrielh> 10b = 256 elements[02:23:52] <gabrielh> 11b = Reserved[02:24:11] <scgtrp> i'd go with an error there, there's nothing saying the future meaning will be consistent with that pattern[02:24:14] <gabrielh> Probably no support for 128 elements anywhere else, although I don't really know[02:24:21] <gabrielh> alright[02:24:24] <gabrielh> Thanks[02:25:14] <scgtrp> better to just not support something yet than accidentally send the 'release magic blue smoke from all chips' command[02:25:48] <gabrielh> True, although I think in this case it would just result in buffer overruns.[02:27:58] <scgtrp> those tend to be bad as well[02:40:11] *** GeekSh4dow has quit IRC[02:41:32] *** vision3 has joined #haiku[02:41:55] *** PasNox has quit IRC[02:57:58] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[03:00:04] *** Alam_Squeeze has joined #haiku[03:23:25] *** kurain has joined #haiku[03:31:55] <vision3> Aloha[03:33:46] <IIsi50MHz> mora[03:34:05] <vision3> Oi[03:34:42] <IIsi50MHz> vea?[03:34:54] <vision3> See[03:42:46] <vision3> Cheese ?[03:45:09] <kurain> cheese what[03:45:39] *** Tilduke has quit IRC[03:48:23] <IIsi50MHz> crackers[03:50:38] <augiedoggie> cake[03:50:53] *** Tilduke has joined #haiku[03:51:19] <vision3> cheese cake ?[03:51:33] <vision3> cream cheese icing on a chocolate cake ?[04:06:35] *** diver has quit IRC[04:08:15] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[04:23:30] <gabrielh> I wrote some code that I'd like to submit as a patch. Should I create a bug ticket and then submit a patch to that ticket?[04:23:53] *** brianb has quit IRC[04:24:15] <gabrielh> It wasn't really so much a bug fix as adding basic functionality. Should I consider it an enhancement?[04:35:16] *** brechtm has joined #haiku[04:37:32] *** brechtm has left #haiku[04:38:23] *** impy has quit IRC[04:39:26] *** Olathe has quit IRC[04:39:49] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[04:43:27] *** impy has joined #haiku[04:45:24] *** Olathe has quit IRC[04:49:20] *** vision3 has quit IRC[04:51:02] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[04:51:38] *** gabrielh has quit IRC[05:07:41] *** bryan_w has joined #haiku[05:08:02] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[05:18:32] *** elliottcable is now known as ec|jaculated[05:29:30] *** Tilduke has quit IRC[05:29:52] *** systemww has joined #haiku[05:32:20] *** PasNox has quit IRC[05:39:37] *** systemww has quit IRC[05:45:04] *** Alam_Squeeze has quit IRC[05:47:47] *** Alam_Squeeze has joined #haiku[05:48:08] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[05:52:10] *** Olathe has quit IRC[05:52:28] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[05:55:06] *** bryan_w has quit IRC[05:56:39] *** bryan_w has joined #haiku[05:57:47] *** Tilduke has joined #haiku[05:58:55] *** Olathe has quit IRC[05:59:23] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[06:01:25] *** Olathe has quit IRC[06:10:39] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[06:12:06] *** Olathe has quit IRC[06:15:27] *** dsharpe has joined #haiku[06:16:17] *** deesharpe has quit IRC[06:19:56] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[06:22:03] *** Nozy has quit IRC[06:22:53] *** Disreali has quit IRC[06:23:17] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[06:26:46] *** Nozy has quit IRC[07:05:10] *** bryan_w has quit IRC[07:10:26] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[07:12:04] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[07:17:50] *** Olathe has quit IRC[07:18:51] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[07:33:46] *** Olathe has quit IRC[07:34:25] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[07:34:39] *** Tilduke has quit IRC[07:37:41] *** Tilduke has joined #haiku[07:42:01] *** johnny_b has joined #haiku[07:42:02] *** Olathe has quit IRC[07:42:17] <johnny_b> hi[07:42:28] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[07:43:57] *** Tilduke has quit IRC[07:49:27] <kurain> hi johnny_b[07:51:24] *** IIsi50MHz has quit IRC[08:02:54] *** Olathe has quit IRC[08:12:55] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[08:14:18] *** Olathe has quit IRC[08:17:56] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[08:24:37] *** brianb has joined #haiku[08:25:57] *** kurain has quit IRC[08:32:45] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[08:32:56] <Begasus> morning peeps[08:33:09] <NeonLicht> Morning, Begasus.[08:33:23] <Begasus> hi NeonLicht[08:40:43] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[08:46:56] *** Olathe has quit IRC[08:50:33] *** Stellar has quit IRC[08:50:53] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[08:51:38] *** Olathe has quit IRC[08:55:57] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[08:56:48] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[08:57:04] *** Nozy has left #haiku[08:58:29] *** PasNox has quit IRC[08:58:43] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[09:15:52] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[09:33:01] *** home-alone has joined #haiku[09:33:48] <home-alone> what is the philosophy behind the creation of Haiku OS[09:34:47] *** idefix_dommel has joined #haiku[09:35:45] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[09:35:47] *** redblue has quit IRC[09:36:17] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[09:36:37] <NeonLicht> http://www.haiku-os.org/search/node/philosophy[09:36:43] <augiedoggie> http://haiku-os.org/about[09:37:56] *** idefix_dommel has left #haiku[09:38:36] *** home-alone has quit IRC[09:39:20] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[09:42:40] *** idefix_dommel has joined #haiku[09:49:19] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[09:49:58] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[09:52:51] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[09:54:07] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[09:54:25] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[10:15:17] *** Begasus has quit IRC[10:17:56] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[10:18:03] *** tqh has joined #haiku[10:27:56] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[10:33:34] *** Pinaraf has joined #haiku[10:34:06] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[10:39:42] *** glitchy has quit IRC[10:49:42] *** TomManAway is now known as TomMan81[10:53:21] *** idefix_dommel has quit IRC[10:55:37] *** Ingenu has joined 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#haiku[12:53:20] *** negusnyul_ has joined #haiku[12:56:03] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[12:56:19] *** Olathe has quit IRC[13:11:03] *** tqh has quit IRC[13:16:25] *** Pinaraf has joined #haiku[13:36:37] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[13:58:08] *** tqh has joined #haiku[14:03:17] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[14:03:45] *** Nozy has quit IRC[14:11:08] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[14:24:38] *** johnny_b has quit IRC[14:38:19] *** gouchi has joined #haiku[14:40:19] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[14:40:39] <auronandace> hey guys, is there a way to edit the ticket description of my own ticket in trac on dev.haiku-os.org?[14:41:24] <OmniMancer> you should be able to[14:41:34] <vooshy> auronandace: i think you can when logged in[14:42:16] <OmniMancer> you must be logged in ofcourse[14:42:28] <auronandace> i am logged in, but its not apparent how to edit the description[14:42:51] <auronandace> it lets me edit the ticket itself, like set blockers and whatnot[14:43:11] <auronandace> but i don't know how to edit the description[14:45:41] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[14:47:10] <vooshy> auronandace: just had a look, i see what you mean - i thought it was possible but you may need to just reply[14:48:07] *** AmineKhaldi has quit IRC[14:48:20] *** AmineKhaldi has joined #haiku[14:48:48] *** AmineKhaldi__ has quit IRC[14:48:56] <auronandace> vooshy: thanks, i'll give it a go and report back[14:50:19] *** brechtm has joined #haiku[14:50:37] *** AmineKhaldi has quit IRC[14:50:50] *** AmineKhaldi has joined #haiku[14:57:40] <auronandace> vooshy: it just adds it as a comment[14:58:10] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[14:58:53] <auronandace> vooshy: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/7019/[14:58:55] *** brechtm has left #haiku[15:02:00] <vooshy> auronandace: its a trac thing http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/411[15:04:03] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[15:04:18] <auronandace> vooshy: i see, oh well[15:05:58] <auronandace> vooshy: the problem with my ticket is that the description isn't fully accurate, i discover the problem further on into the comments so f someone came across my ticket and just read the description then the problem is slightly wrong[15:06:59] <auronandace> vooshy: i suppose when trac next gets upgraded for haiku we can then add edits to the description[15:07:21] <mmadia> you can't do that now?[15:07:37] <auronandace> no[15:07:50] <auronandace> it just adds it as a comment[15:08:10] <auronandace> unless i'm being stupid (which wouldn't be a first)[15:08:19] <mmadia> at the bottom, isn't there a collapsed field "Modify Ticket" ?[15:08:36] <auronandace> yes, but it doesn't include the description[15:09:11] <mmadia> what does it include?[15:09:44] <auronandace> everything above the description, like setting blockers and milestones and so forth[15:09:56] <auronandace> but not the description itself[15:10:12] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[15:10:24] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[15:10:29] <mmadia> can you take a screenshot? http://imagebin.org/[15:11:15] <stpere> oh my god! just made kiwi jam ^_^[15:11:23] <stpere> seems absolutely tasty :)[15:13:57] <auronandace> mmadia: imagebin.org/148526[15:16:17] <auronandace> mmadia: http://imagebin.org/148526[15:16:22] <mmadia> hmmm. i see.[15:29:31] *** zizban has joined #haiku[15:43:54] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[15:44:39] *** zizban has quit IRC[15:49:06] *** MAX2 has quit IRC[15:50:04] *** Qeos has joined #haiku[15:58:46] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[16:00:56] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[16:04:02] *** MAX2 has joined #haiku[16:07:16] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[16:07:18] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[16:09:17] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[16:19:31] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[16:19:36] *** [r4] has quit IRC[16:27:08] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[16:33:13] *** johnny_b has joined #haiku[16:33:26] <johnny_b> hi[16:34:07] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[16:34:18] <vooshy> johnny_b: hi[16:34:51] <johnny_b> greetings, vooshy[16:35:14] <vooshy> johnny_b: you manage to resize your image?[16:35:19] <johnny_b> can i copy the raw image to my hdd, right?[16:35:42] <johnny_b> nay, Anarchos had problem w/ image resizing :)[16:36:26] <vooshy> johnny_b: yes you can copy it to your harddisk by either booting it and installing direct or by dd'ing to a spare hdd[16:37:12] <johnny_b> i have dd'ing on my mind[16:38:17] <vooshy> only problem with dd'ing is the partition wont grow - installing will give you the free space aswell[16:38:46] <johnny_b> true[16:38:53] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[16:38:56] *** The123king has joined #haiku[16:40:16] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[16:49:31] *** lollo64it has quit IRC[16:57:13] *** bryan_w has joined #haiku[17:00:06] *** duvjones has quit IRC[17:00:57] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[17:01:22] *** ana_s has joined #haiku[17:01:40] *** lollo64it has joined #haiku[17:04:45] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[17:07:00] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[17:08:56] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[17:12:06] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[17:12:19] *** Pinaraf has joined #haiku[17:14:33] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[17:16:03] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[17:27:28] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[17:27:41] *** Pinaraf has joined #haiku[17:29:34] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[17:31:22] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[17:34:10] *** ana_s has quit IRC[17:36:12] <johnny_b> gcc2hybrid anyboot image is downloading :)[17:48:52] *** negusnyul_ has quit IRC[17:53:54] <johnny_b> does somebody use haiku on amd780g/sb710 machine?[17:55:09] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[17:55:17] <mmadia> the sb600 chipsets have been reported to have some issues on dev.haiku-os.org[17:56:59] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[17:58:31] <johnny_b> sorry, amd780g/sb700[17:58:47] <johnny_b> yeah, haiku crashes because of usb[17:59:17] <johnny_b> shall i fill a ticket for the bug report?[18:00:11] <vooshy> have a search for the sb600 and add your comments to the ticket[18:04:03] <johnny_b> hmm[18:05:18] <johnny_b> the recommended solution is disabling legacy support in the BIOS[18:05:23] <johnny_b> for usb[18:06:04] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[18:06:21] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[18:07:05] <johnny_b> need to test it, later[18:07:29] *** johnny_b has quit IRC[18:09:39] *** bjw_ has joined #haiku[18:12:06] *** johnny_b has joined #haiku[18:12:50] <johnny_b> disabled the legacy support but crashed again[18:16:44] *** johnny_b has quit IRC[18:21:10] *** johnny_b has joined #haiku[18:22:47] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[18:23:07] *** farhaven has joined #haiku[18:24:27] <johnny_b> i hoped that i can use haiku on my primary machine[18:24:49] <farhaven> dumb question: is there some sort of list of WiFi error codes? At university I tried connecting to an open ESS WiFi network with my wpi3945, but the card only said "assoc failed (Reason: 17)"[18:24:53] <farhaven> and i[18:25:01] <farhaven> i'd like to know what that code stands for[18:25:02] <johnny_b> i have the same issue like http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/4718[18:26:02] <johnny_b> but only disabling the whole usb subsystem makes haiku boot which is not acceptable :|[18:29:53] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[18:30:16] <johnny_b> farhaven: sorry i can't help you :([18:32:50] *** Nico-izo has quit IRC[18:33:00] <farhaven> then i'll just linger around until someone can :)[18:35:52] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[18:38:24] *** The123king has quit IRC[18:41:04] *** Nico-izo has joined #haiku[18:43:11] *** tqh has quit IRC[18:45:18] *** tqh has joined #haiku[18:48:20] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[18:49:06] *** AmineKhaldi has quit IRC[18:50:07] *** AmineKha- has joined #haiku[18:50:16] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[18:51:12] *** ana_s has joined #haiku[18:51:32] *** tqh has quit IRC[18:54:19] *** AmineKha- is now known as AmineKhaldi[18:54:25] *** AmineKhaldi has joined #haiku[19:07:15] *** Nico-izo has quit IRC[19:07:15] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[19:07:33] *** Nico-izo has joined #haiku[19:08:37] *** Nico-izo has quit IRC[19:08:40] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[19:09:07] *** kurain has quit IRC[19:10:08] *** MAX2 has quit IRC[19:13:37] *** systemww has joined #haiku[19:16:15] *** MAX2 has joined #haiku[19:20:00] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[19:27:58] *** [r4] has quit IRC[19:31:58] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[19:39:33] *** ana_s has quit IRC[19:47:10] *** bubble_ has joined #haiku[19:53:45] *** aphedox has joined #haiku[19:53:56] *** aphedox_ has quit IRC[19:55:05] *** negusnyul has joined #haiku[19:55:35] <johnny_b> szia negusnyul[19:56:41] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[19:56:45] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[19:56:48] <negusnyul> johnny_b: üdv[19:58:39] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[20:18:33] *** humdinger has quit IRC[20:18:40] *** home-alone has joined #haiku[20:18:55] <home-alone> why does haiku use Hybird modular kernel design[20:22:59] *** glitchy has joined #haiku[20:23:16] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[20:25:04] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[20:25:41] *** home-alone has quit IRC[20:27:15] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[20:30:36] *** vooshy has quit IRC[20:31:21] *** home-alone has joined #haiku[20:31:35] <home-alone> hi[20:32:07] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[20:35:04] <johnny_b> home-alone: yes, it does :)[20:35:25] <johnny_b> home-alone: what kind of kernel should it use?[20:37:04] <home-alone> no i am happy with that[20:37:22] <home-alone> is it a Monolithic-based kernel..??[20:38:42] <johnny_b> nay, it's hybrid[20:39:23] <home-alone> unlike linux[20:42:55] <HeTo> just like Linux[20:44:48] <home-alone> why dont it use linux kernel then[20:45:08] <HeTo> although calling it hybrid is just a buzzword[20:46:40] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[20:46:40] <home-alone> why dont it use linux kernel then..?????[20:49:40] *** umccullough has joined #haiku[20:50:30] <HeTo> because that's the decision Haiku made[20:51:07] <jrabbit> it's a big difference[20:51:08] <HeTo> the Linux kernel API and ABI change every month so binary drivers on it are cumbersome[20:51:15] <jrabbit> I don't know how [ortable the useland code works.[20:51:23] <jrabbit> s/works/is[20:51:34] <jrabbit> I think theres alot of reliance on B_* :P[20:51:38] <HeTo> also the idea of Haiku is to have a full, well-integrated operating system[20:52:04] <jrabbit> home-alone: basically for the same effect a coder would need to be a linux kernel hacker[20:52:30] <jrabbit> home-alone: you mgiht was well say why not XNU or HURD[20:52:45] <johnny_b> or L4[20:53:13] <HeTo> also, there was at least one project that tried to build a BeOS clone on Linux, and it didn't succeed[20:53:22] <scgtrp> the linux kernel relies more than you'd think on userspace working a certain way[20:53:43] <home-alone> HURD and XNU kernels are not as mature as Linux or to less extent kfreebsd[20:54:08] <scgtrp> you'd wind up just implementing a compatibility layer over it[20:54:10] <johnny_b> home-alone: did you read that thread on kernels on haiku forum, didn't you?[20:54:37] <home-alone> i didnt ..link please[20:55:05] <johnny_b> no, hell, no[20:55:13] <HeTo> Xnu and FreeBSD have very mature kernels[20:55:22] <home-alone> actully i am very interested in haiku development thats why i am curious[20:55:40] <johnny_b> trust me, it's nothing related to haiku development[20:55:54] <johnny_b> more to flaming and troll feeding[20:56:11] <home-alone> i am sorry..???[20:56:42] <home-alone> you mean i am trolling...??[20:56:57] <johnny_b> this kernel design story always ends in a flamewar[20:57:05] <johnny_b> no, you don't[20:57:29] <johnny_b> but it's not the cornerstone of haiku development[20:57:41] <home-alone> oh , ok[20:57:58] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[20:58:19] <johnny_b> you can read and understand the kernel code and decide if it's monolithic or hybrid[20:58:27] <jrabbit> home-alone: LOL[20:58:27] <home-alone> i know , i have already taking avtive role in haiku ports[20:58:28] <johnny_b> but it's not the point about haiku[20:58:42] <jrabbit> I think XNU is tons older then linux home-alone[20:59:20] <home-alone> older dosent mean maturer[20:59:39] <johnny_b> it's curious that nobody speaks about xinu ;)[21:00:06] <umccullough> maybe cuz nobody has heard of it[21:00:40] <johnny_b> iirc xinu inspired the beos system design[21:01:02] <johnny_b> xinu is not unix[21:01:03] <johnny_b> :)[21:01:32] <home-alone> xnu is OS X kernel[21:02:15] <home-alone> priamary next kernel[21:02:15] <johnny_b> xinu != xnu[21:04:08] * umccullough gets tired of the "why not <insert-favorite-kernel>" discussions :/[21:04:13] <home-alone> from what background you guyz come from[21:05:02] <johnny_b> umccullough: i understand you but it'll never end ...[21:05:10] <umccullough> that's why i get tired of it[21:05:38] <umccullough> it's beena constant during the entire project[21:05:45] <umccullough> and will always be so[21:05:49] <home-alone> do you activelt develop for haiku...???[21:05:56] <umccullough> me personally? no[21:05:59] <home-alone> actively[21:06:05] <johnny_b> people come here to speak and use haiku and always want the features of their previous/current system[21:06:17] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[21:06:19] <johnny_b> it's senseless[21:06:20] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[21:06:28] <umccullough> not entirely senseless[21:06:37] <umccullough> but resistance to change is frustrating[21:06:57] <umccullough> when someone says: "there might be a different way to do the same thing" and the response is: "I want it my way!"[21:07:09] <johnny_b> haha[21:07:12] <home-alone> i have used haiku on fairly old hardware and it worked just fine[21:07:14] <umccullough> it's like the vim vs emacs shit[21:07:30] <johnny_b> true[21:08:22] <augiedoggie> everyone knows emacs is better[21:09:03] <home-alone> vim is fine lol[21:09:12] <johnny_b> my oh my :|[21:09:28] <johnny_b> mcedit is the best :p[21:09:47] <jrabbit> whats sad is the haiku text editor kinda sucks :\[21:09:50] <home-alone> what about nano[21:09:54] <umccullough> jrabbit, you mean pe?[21:09:55] * vooshy prefers stylededit[21:09:56] <johnny_b> let's go back to the right track[21:09:59] <jrabbit> mhm[21:10:03] <umccullough> i don't mind pe at all[21:10:12] <umccullough> once you get used to it[21:10:14] <home-alone> gedit[21:10:15] <jrabbit> which one is suppsoed to syntax hilight?[21:10:16] <johnny_b> is it possible that a nightly iso is corrupted?[21:10:21] <scgtrp> i'd like if it had tabs[21:10:22] <umccullough> jrabbit, that's pe[21:10:24] <jrabbit> oh[21:10:30] <umccullough> scgtrp, haiku has tabs[21:10:33] <scgtrp> also: we should switch haiku to use the nt kernel! :D[21:10:34] <jrabbit> I don't seem to get it...[21:10:43] <scgtrp> umccullough: not enough for the number of windows i tend to have open when i'm coding[21:10:45] <umccullough> scgtrp, use the stack and tile decorator ;)[21:10:48] * jrabbit likes textmate[21:11:11] <home-alone> Do you think Proprietary software should co-exist with FOSS[21:11:11] <umccullough> scgtrp, also, there's a keystroke to switch between windows of the same app[21:11:26] *** Qeos has quit IRC[21:11:29] <jrabbit> home-alone: you're not very good at trolling[21:11:47] <umccullough> why shouldn't proprietary software co-exist?[21:11:52] <home-alone> i am trying not to :)[21:12:35] <home-alone> I think much innovation comes from open software ( and in general from open research)[21:12:41] <johnny_b> if it's a good app, fits my needs and affordable then I buy it[21:12:46] <johnny_b> it's so simple[21:13:28] <umccullough> i still to FOSS mostly, but i'm not adverse to the occasional closed app[21:13:32] <umccullough> *stick[21:14:05] * scgtrp sees open source-ness as a nice feature but not really required[21:14:21] * jrabbit uses good software[21:14:25] <scgtrp> ^[21:14:28] <home-alone> from where i belong people hate proprietary software and they want it to vanish[21:14:49] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[21:14:54] <umccullough> sure, but it will never vanish[21:15:05] <vooshy> ah belong, so your owned?[21:15:13] * jrabbit tends to favor paid-for software that benefits FOSS[21:15:16] <home-alone> yes they should not vanish[21:15:42] <home-alone> i am not owned , i disagree[21:16:28] <johnny_b> :)[21:16:50] *** Qeos has joined #haiku[21:16:56] <home-alone> my english is not very good that causes misunderstanig some times[21:17:07] <jrabbit> otherwise I don't really pay for software.[21:17:36] <jrabbit> which isn't a problem with foss and closed source freeware :P[21:17:57] <home-alone> what if the proprietary software vanishes..??[21:18:12] * umccullough isn't worried about that[21:18:15] <jrabbit> ^[21:18:25] <johnny_b> we get a lot of starving programmers :)[21:18:35] <home-alone> :)[21:18:39] <jrabbit> I'm not starving yet.[21:18:59] <umccullough> you can make plenty of money writing FOSS anyway, it just requires a slightly different business model[21:19:25] <umccullough> a business model that most businesses can't comprehend ;)[21:19:28] * jrabbit payd for wine[21:19:44] <johnny_b> is it not opensource? :O[21:19:49] <jrabbit> it is[21:19:55] <johnny_b> :)[21:20:05] <jrabbit> but Crossover is run as a business[21:20:11] <home-alone> theorotically it can be done but very difficult to execute[21:20:15] <umccullough> i donate to plenty of FOSS projects - is that similar to paying? :)[21:20:19] <vooshy> jrabbit: red or white grape?[21:20:26] <jrabbit> (they're the only wine proprietary software that commits to upstream)[21:22:01] <home-alone> That's why I prefer FOSS, in general. Even if every piece of proprietary software on my computer killed itself, I'd still be able to boot up, send an email, view the web, etc. My computer is mine.[21:26:30] *** home-alone has quit IRC[21:27:06] *** home-alone has joined #haiku[21:27:53] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[21:29:15] *** [r4] has quit IRC[21:29:49] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[21:33:52] <johnny_b> greeting pulkomandy[21:35:53] <home-alone> hi[21:42:37] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[21:42:53] * Disreali has returned[21:49:47] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[21:54:32] *** umccullough has left #haiku[21:56:06] *** [r4] has quit IRC[22:01:08] *** home-alone has quit IRC[22:10:53] *** bubble_ has quit IRC[22:14:52] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[22:16:18] *** Nico-izo has joined #haiku[22:25:24] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[22:26:32] *** Cobi has quit IRC[22:32:54] *** deesharpe has joined #haiku[22:34:35] *** dsharpe has quit IRC[22:46:36] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[22:47:17] *** vooshy has quit IRC[22:49:49] *** _marc` has quit IRC[22:51:20] *** TomMan81 is now known as TomManAway[22:52:03] *** asb has quit IRC[22:53:09] *** asb has joined #haiku[22:53:29] *** Tahvok has joined #haiku[22:57:45] *** alexixor has joined #haiku[22:58:02] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[23:00:54] *** alexixor has left #haiku[23:01:03] *** DrHouse|Hyperion has joined #haiku[23:01:19] *** alexixor has joined #haiku[23:04:04] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[23:11:29] *** alexixor has left #haiku[23:13:10] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[23:13:31] *** dsharpe has joined #haiku[23:14:23] *** [r4] has quit IRC[23:14:59] *** deesharpe has quit IRC[23:15:56] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[23:17:20] *** Stellar has quit IRC[23:20:25] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[23:34:33] <johnny_b> what's the state of the arm port?[23:40:04] *** systemww has quit IRC[23:43:03] <mmadia> idle. iirc, it may boot enough for it to KDL.[23:44:00] <johnny_b> :([23:46:41] <johnny_b> i suppose powerpc port is stalled too[23:51:13] *** GeekShadow has joined #haiku[23:52:35] <Disreali> johnny_b: the one dev working on it has been busy with real life issues[23:53:27] <johnny_b> ithamar?[23:58:22] <Disreali> ithamar is one of the devs working on arm. no arm comits lately. iirc the one ppc dev is Italian. I forget his nick[23:58:44] <mmadia> andreas f.[23:58:58] <Disreali> thanks