April 7, 2011 
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April 7, 2011 [00:03:16] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[00:13:59] <CIA-81> Haiku: czeidler * r41190 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/ps2/ (5 files): (log message trimmed)[00:14:00] <CIA-81> simple click or becomes a tap drag. ALPS does not send these events.[00:14:00] <CIA-81> speed is 200 pixel/s. In theory synaptics has different event frequency modes[00:14:01] <CIA-81> which would result in a different edge motion speed in the previous approach.[00:14:21] *** bryan_w has joined #haiku[00:16:24] <mmu_man> scgtrp: all builds here, try with the vars I gave[00:22:36] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:23:10] *** mmu has quit IRC[00:29:00] *** petterhj has quit IRC[00:35:02] *** xplt has quit IRC[00:37:38] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[00:46:34] *** Nies has quit IRC[00:51:06] *** xplt has joined #haiku[00:52:56] *** Nies has joined #haiku[01:07:43] *** Tilduke_ has quit IRC[01:09:07] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[01:20:49] *** diegovio1a has joined #haiku[01:23:42] *** diegoviola has quit IRC[01:27:01] * scgtrp reappears[01:32:50] *** surrounder has quit IRC[01:33:24] <scgtrp> what.[01:33:27] <scgtrp> that actually worked[01:34:45] *** surrounder has joined #haiku[01:38:52] *** Senryu_user1 has joined #haiku[01:39:08] *** Aman has quit IRC[01:45:48] *** gabrielh has quit IRC[01:53:19] *** dancxjo has quit IRC[02:07:09] *** scgtrp|haiku has joined #haiku[02:08:01] *** dancxjo has joined #haiku[02:33:44] *** Barrett has quit IRC[02:35:36] *** fengshaun has joined #haiku[02:49:00] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[02:49:14] *** mmadia has quit IRC[02:52:48] <scgtrp|haiku> how do i make haiku load a kernel module?[02:55:04] <augiedoggie> they're loaded on demand[02:55:58] <scgtrp|haiku> not possible to force it? how do i get it to load the vbox module?[02:56:38] <augiedoggie> well, you're outside my area of knowledge, but ...[02:56:58] <augiedoggie> i think you publish the device path and if something asks for that device it gets loaded[02:57:12] *** Geoz has quit IRC[02:58:32] *** Barrett has quit IRC[03:02:25] <scgtrp|haiku> clearly i have a bit to learn[03:04:43] <augiedoggie> it'd be better to ask that on the mailing list, there are only a few people in this channel that would know[03:06:15] <augiedoggie> there are some scattered articles on the website[03:07:56] <scgtrp> yeah, i'm finding a bit but not enough to fully understand how things work[03:12:08] <diegovio1a> linux systems libraries isn't so bad at all that i think now[03:12:09] *** diegovio1a has left #haiku[03:12:28] <scgtrp|haiku> waitwhat?[03:12:29] *** helfujitsu has quit IRC[03:13:27] *** helfujitsu has joined #haiku[03:15:16] *** dancxjo has quit IRC[03:24:00] *** MUILTFN has quit IRC[03:28:50] *** dancxjo has joined #haiku[03:47:02] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[03:47:07] *** MUILTFN has joined #haiku[03:48:55] *** Disreali has quit IRC[03:49:24] *** MAX2 has quit IRC[03:55:30] *** ereslibre has quit IRC[04:01:04] *** DraX has quit IRC[04:01:05] *** gwenael has quit IRC[04:01:05] *** Vampyre has quit IRC[04:01:05] *** DDevine has quit IRC[04:01:05] *** mrsunshine has quit IRC[04:01:05] *** ec|detached has quit IRC[04:01:05] *** Guest81056 has quit IRC[04:01:05] *** scgtrp has quit IRC[04:01:10] *** DraX has joined #haiku[04:01:10] *** DraX has joined #haiku[04:02:04] *** fengshaun 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jrabbit has quit IRC[05:05:05] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[05:11:35] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[05:23:05] *** Tilduke has joined #haiku[05:32:56] *** oco2 has quit IRC[05:33:10] *** gabrielh has joined #haiku[05:33:21] *** xplt has quit IRC[05:41:56] *** looncraz has joined #haiku[05:42:25] <looncraz> "Unhandled archive extension in InstallOptionalHaikuImagePackage" WTF does this mean?[05:43:28] <Senryu_user1> strange, usually means the file format if forgien.[05:43:43] <Senryu_user1> try running it again, it could have pooped out halfway download[05:43:56] <looncraz> will do[05:44:12] <looncraz> I think I got this error trying to install webpositive as well, but opensound was not an issue[05:44:31] <looncraz> I'm running r41186[05:44:31] <Senryu_user1> could just be the server is being flaky[05:45:13] <looncraz> will see..[05:46:27] <looncraz> hmm, did it again,[05:46:34] *** viper0984 has joined #haiku[05:46:38] <looncraz> Installing : ...[05:46:38] <looncraz> Extracting ...[05:46:39] <looncraz> Unhandled archive extension in InstallOptionalHaikuImagePackage()[05:46:40] <looncraz> ... something went wrong when installing packages.[05:46:45] <looncraz> oops, sorry[05:47:20] <looncraz> Seems it is trying to do something to nothing ;-)[05:47:29] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[05:48:11] <looncraz> hmm, gonna switch back to 49050 ...[05:48:12] *** looncraz has quit IRC[05:55:08] *** looncraz has joined #haiku[06:29:22] *** MUILTFN has quit IRC[06:30:42] *** viper0984 has quit IRC[06:34:05] *** leo_kreep has joined #haiku[06:38:40] *** looncraz has quit IRC[06:38:58] *** peerkoel has quit IRC[06:42:20] <Senryu_user1> who wants a functional copy of Xvideoservicetheif for haiku ?[06:43:09] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[06:44:41] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[06:57:49] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[07:05:46] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[07:10:07] <Senryu_user1> video downloader that actually works for Haiku[07:10:11] <Senryu_user1> Requires QT 4.8[07:10:14] <Senryu_user1> http://www.filedump.net/dumped/xvideoservicethief1302153016.zip[07:10:24] <Senryu_user1> www.qt-haiku.ru[07:10:33] *** bryan_w has quit IRC[07:11:18] *** Disreali has quit IRC[07:44:23] *** Senryu_user1 has quit IRC[07:46:08] *** dancxjo has quit IRC[07:54:09] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[08:01:15] *** dancxjo has joined #haiku[08:19:18] *** kPb_in has joined #haiku[08:30:13] *** Pinaraf has joined #haiku[08:42:44] *** J-Ho has joined #haiku[08:50:45] *** The123king has joined #haiku[08:58:18] *** yogesh has joined #haiku[08:58:24] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[08:58:29] <yogesh> hello[09:03:03] *** ana_s has joined #haiku[09:10:51] *** WebDawg has joined #haiku[09:10:56] *** adominguez has joined #haiku[09:19:17] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[09:22:43] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[09:23:10] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[09:28:46] *** fengshaun has quit IRC[09:28:51] *** WebDawg has joined #haiku[09:32:51] *** WebDawg has joined #haiku[09:35:51] *** WebDawg has joined 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kPb_in has joined #haiku[11:23:49] *** Geoz has joined #haiku[11:26:36] *** ab5tract has quit IRC[11:27:26] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[11:35:19] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[11:41:20] *** stippi has joined #haiku[11:41:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[11:44:38] *** stippi has quit IRC[12:04:43] *** bruce_loco has joined #haiku[12:21:00] <CIA-81> Haiku: kirilla * r41191 /haiku/trunk/data/common/boot/post_install/add_catalog_entry_attributes.sh: Create parent folders, if missing. More robust.[12:25:21] *** idefix_dommel has left #haiku[12:34:13] *** Nies has joined #haiku[12:50:00] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[12:59:52] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[13:03:59] *** Stellar has quit IRC[13:06:37] *** bruce_loco has quit IRC[13:17:54] *** Colin_Finck|lap is now known as Colin_Finck|afk[13:22:04] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[13:30:16] *** Stellar has quit IRC[13:46:59] *** petterhj has quit IRC[13:51:11] *** chackal_sjc has joined #haiku[14:05:00] *** Colin_Finck|afk is now known as Colin_Finck|lap[14:07:05] *** dancxjo has quit IRC[14:09:26] <CIA-81> Haiku: kirilla * r41192 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/mail/DeskbarView.cpp: Remove old debugging output.[14:10:48] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[14:19:38] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[14:43:56] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[14:44:30] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[14:47:05] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[14:47:37] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[14:49:09] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[15:05:54] *** dru_ has joined #haiku[15:08:36] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[15:08:40] *** Stellar has quit IRC[15:08:40] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[15:40:08] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[15:47:38] *** kPb_in has quit IRC[15:52:05] *** Colin_Finck|lap is now known as Colin_Finck|afk[15:56:44] *** tim_ has joined #haiku[15:56:51] <tim_> hi guys[15:58:10] <tim_> whats haiku mainly used for?[16:00:44] *** MUILTFN has joined #haiku[16:02:25] <senryu_user> whatever yoiu like[16:04:26] *** talimanB has joined #haiku[16:04:26] *** talimanB has left #haiku[16:04:28] <tim_> does it support flash?\[16:04:36] *** talimanB has joined #haiku[16:05:45] *** oZ] has joined #haiku[16:10:26] <senryu_user> kind of[16:13:19] *** augiedoggie has quit IRC[16:14:26] *** negusnyul has joined #haiku[16:15:50] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[16:27:55] <dru_> I would consider Flash support to be Con, not a Pro :-)[16:29:13] *** DrHouse|Kerrigan has joined #haiku[16:29:26] <senryu_user> well, most people just want to download or watch videos[16:29:51] <senryu_user> html5 webm will likely change the dominant role of flash hopefully[16:30:08] <tim_> hopefully[16:30:29] <senryu_user> well I can give you a link to a program that will let you download videos[16:30:34] <tim_> im going to try it in :[16:30:40] <tim_> my vm[16:31:08] <talimanB> vm with flash not a good idea[16:31:17] <senryu_user> no flash is very very CPU heavy[16:31:20] <tim_> i ment try haiku in vm[16:31:28] <talimanB> =)[16:31:30] <senryu_user> oh, yeah please do. Its a great OS[16:31:50] <tim_> i saw it on hak5 it looked alright[16:32:11] <tim_> but i got to try it out for myself to get an honest opinion[16:32:12] <senryu_user> its a nice os. Just getting closer all the time lately.[16:32:23] <senryu_user> biggest problem is the lack of apps.[16:33:16] <tim_> what kernel does it have?[16:33:28] <talimanB> haiku kernel =)[16:33:37] <tim_> an original kernel?[16:33:44] *** bruce_loco has joined #haiku[16:33:46] <senryu_user> the haiku kernel, which is a fork of the newos kernel which was a improved version of the BeOS kernel[16:34:04] <tim_> sweet a whole new experience :)[16:34:11] <senryu_user> its addictive[16:34:17] <tim_> im a linux geek you see :D[16:34:37] <tim_> senryu_user: most new ideas are addictive[16:34:53] <talimanB> i think you can find a lot of linux geek there -)[16:34:55] <senryu_user> spend a few minutes with haiku on real hardware and you'll find everything else infurating to use[16:35:34] <tim_> i like the technical that linux brings to me :D[16:35:35] <talimanB> build/hack haiku-os on linux box -)[16:36:07] <senryu_user> Haiku has alot of the same capability, no multi user though.[16:36:22] <senryu_user> well theres experimental multiuser support you can enable if you compile your own[16:36:54] *** Colin_Finck|afk is now known as Colin_Finck|lap[16:36:58] <talimanB> and haiku is pure fast for netbooks, my old eeepc =)[16:37:07] <talimanB> no linux on eee now, just haiku[16:37:18] <tim_> does the utilities have ping and tracerouting built into the terminal?[16:37:34] <senryu_user> I am not sure but it supports most bash functionality IIRC[16:37:41] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[16:38:05] <kirilla> tim_: we have ping and traceroute[16:38:07] <talimanB> and you got gcc[16:38:12] <tim_> cool[16:38:27] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[16:38:29] *** kieselsteini has quit IRC[16:38:37] <tim_> hold on testing it out[16:38:49] <senryu_user> I think most of the big popular tools are supported to. Theres a few servers to on www.haikuware.com to[16:39:09] <kirilla> tim_: Haiku is pretty posix compatible, so most such utilities should port without too much effort, even though things aren't always as simple as just "make, make install"[16:39:18] <senryu_user> http://haikuware.com/directory/internet-network/servers/[16:40:29] *** J-Ho has left #haiku[16:40:37] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[16:40:57] <talimanB> you can run installoptionalpackage in terminal to get some more packages, also[16:44:09] <tim_> the installer is abit tricky on vm[16:46:41] <senryu_user> really ?[16:48:09] <tim_> yeah especially the partitioning editor[16:48:40] <kirilla> I agree sort of.[16:48:47] <tim_> never been a fan of the old partitioning layout[16:49:00] <tim_> but apart from that[16:49:04] <tim_> its very nice[16:49:17] <kirilla> It does make you do things in a few steps, e.g. create an intel layout, create partitions, initialize them[16:49:37] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[16:49:59] <kirilla> Ideally it would let you ask for an end result, and have it do the necessary steps leading to it.[16:50:22] <tim_> the icons could be a little less cartonny but thats not really a problem[16:50:43] <kirilla> tim_: when you say "old partitioning layout", what do you mean?[16:50:43] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[16:52:09] <senryu_user> the icon designs are inhereted from the BeOS IIRC or very very similar.[16:52:18] <tim_> i use the example of ubuntu it has a slider for the partitioner but i havnt seen such an old partition editor since the last time i tried slackware[16:53:49] <kirilla> I suppose Slackware made you enter start and end sectors for partitions. We're definitely not -that- bad. :)[16:54:47] <tim_> but for new users its still confusing[16:55:05] <talimanB> =)[16:55:38] <tim_> also i think haiku needs to move away from the traditional files and folders interface[16:56:09] <surrounder> bad idea[16:56:35] <tim_> i see the market changing with the rise of the tablet[16:56:49] <tim_> ubuntu has changed its interface[16:57:01] <tim_> mac is starting to change[16:57:03] <talimanB> nothing wrong w/ troditions[16:57:08] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[16:57:27] <senryu_user> really I thought the haiku partition and installer were blaringly obvious, then again I have been using pc's sinc ethe days when dos ruled the world and the first mac's were still selling new and the appleIIe was popular.[16:57:38] <tim_> true but that will allways drag on productivity[16:58:06] *** bruce_loco has quit IRC[16:58:09] <kirilla> tim_: you mean your "angry birds" productivity? ;)[16:58:17] <tim_> no[16:58:19] <tim_> lol[16:58:31] <scgtrp> what[16:58:42] <kirilla> I think the tablet is an interesting development. I'd love to see Haiku evolve.[16:58:42] <scgtrp> i still don't get why people are opposed to files and folders...[16:58:57] <senryu_user> I was playing GTA1 or 2 on a win7 phone the other day.[16:59:11] <tim_> everything in life evolves or faces exstinction[16:59:21] <scgtrp> if it has a reason to evolve, sure[16:59:27] <scgtrp> change for the sake of change is silly[16:59:52] <senryu_user> scgtrp, are you implying that sometimes people just like to change stuff, becuase ![16:59:56] <tim_> scgtrp: because people want easier stuff to do[17:00:13] <senryu_user> how does tossing the concept of files/folder make the computer easier to use ?[17:00:14] <tim_> thats why tablets will take over the laptop and even the desktop[17:00:15] <scgtrp> easier how? what are you even proposing?[17:00:20] <scgtrp> pfft[17:00:48] <scgtrp> do you also believe pc gaming is dead? :P[17:01:16] <tim_> well put it this way whats easier and quicker click a few icons or clicking a load of index boxes then clicking an icon[17:01:20] <senryu_user> tablets will never replace desktops, what they will do is get the people who only use their computer for websurfing off the platform. Look at the next HD standards, there is no way that tablets will be able to edit that type of video. The dekstop isn't going anywhere.[17:01:30] <scgtrp> tim_: ... uh, what?[17:01:34] <senryu_user> all a icon is a folder with a icon on it[17:01:39] <tim_> doesnt matter[17:01:59] <senryu_user> in reality folder don't even exist.[17:02:06] <senryu_user> neither do files[17:02:28] <senryu_user> there just 10011010110101001010101 on the disk, the gui and the os construct them into chunks of data and containers we call files and folders[17:02:43] <talimanB> lol[17:02:57] <senryu_user> its the truth[17:04:04] <scgtrp> tim_: that means you need to organize files in less silly ways, not abolish files (what would you replace them with?)[17:04:43] <Ingenu> http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/honest_dog_tag.jpg[17:05:04] <kirilla> dudes, I have an idea.. it's going to revolutionize the interface.. replacing the mouse pointer with a shovel! :P[17:05:08] <talimanB> back to 1998, Be is cool, for me, now, when I show ppl haiku, they think its still cool[17:05:11] <scgtrp> kirilla: :D[17:05:11] <talimanB> =)[17:05:30] <kirilla> :][17:05:40] <Ingenu> abstracting the file system is a good idea IMO[17:05:48] <Ingenu> with fast & live queries like in BeOS[17:05:59] <scgtrp> abstraction is completely different from abolishing[17:06:01] <Ingenu> you don't need a file browser, you just decide that people go through apps[17:06:07] <Ingenu> and apps are the center of everything[17:06:28] <scgtrp> and then you've broken cli, good job[17:06:31] <Ingenu> well in that way it's hidden[17:06:34] <kirilla> goodbye document-centrism, hello app-centrism[17:06:34] <senryu_user> well, what good is a OS without apps ?[17:06:43] <Ingenu> the user only have a concept of files[17:06:56] <senryu_user> what good are apps without data ?[17:06:58] <Ingenu> kirilla, yep[17:07:05] <senryu_user> what good are apps without a OS[17:07:30] <senryu_user> seems like there all pretty tightly linked unless application developers want to compile for every hardware configuration[17:07:40] <senryu_user> DOS sucked[17:07:41] <Ingenu> it's not too far from what iOS provides[17:07:47] <senryu_user> iOS[17:07:48] <kirilla> yes, data is interesting, especially with everyone moving to web services, cloud whatever[17:08:00] <senryu_user> I think the cloud won't be able to deliver[17:08:08] <scgtrp> Ingenu: fair enough, but if i want to directly browse files i expect the os to get out of my way and let me do it[17:08:12] <senryu_user> first off HD content will absolutely destroy bandwidth[17:08:42] <Ingenu> sure[17:08:44] <tim_> so are most of you saying that youd rather stick with something just because its tradition and let it die instead of evolveing to the needs of the people[17:08:46] <senryu_user> can you imagine trying to edit a video over the cloud ?[17:08:47] <Ingenu> file browsing is an app[17:08:48] <scgtrp> Ingenu: and how do you do files that can be opened in more than one application?[17:08:50] <Ingenu> it would just be different[17:08:56] <senryu_user> how about recording music[17:09:06] <senryu_user> or editing a large HD picture[17:09:09] <Ingenu> you start the app you want[17:09:09] <scgtrp> do you just throw everything in one folder and force the user to use search?[17:09:12] <Ingenu> then you open files[17:09:18] <Ingenu> the app decides what it's compatible with[17:09:18] <senryu_user> the round trip latencys aren't going to work[17:09:22] <Ingenu> nothing new there really[17:09:26] <scgtrp> i'm asking about organization, not opening[17:09:38] <Ingenu> you just query files, you don't deal with them[17:09:41] <Ingenu> directly[17:09:45] <Ingenu> no folders, no hierarchy[17:09:46] <senryu_user> I think the doler concept provides a nice way to the average human to organize the data[17:09:56] <scgtrp> Ingenu: good luck storing source trees! :D[17:10:09] <senryu_user> the issue is making sure that the apps have a very dedicated structure that the user doesn't have to relearn for every new app[17:10:10] <scgtrp> i *like* folders, i expect an operating system to let me use them[17:10:12] <Ingenu> just because it's hidden doesn't mean it's not there[17:10:17] <scgtrp> they make more sense to me than searching[17:10:23] <Ingenu> as I said it's an different way to view it[17:10:27] <Ingenu> from the user perspective[17:10:27] <senryu_user> doler=folder[17:10:44] <Ingenu> no, you don't like folders, you are used to them[17:10:46] <Ingenu> :p[17:11:02] <scgtrp> no, i'm pretty sure i like them. don't try to tell me how i think, i think i know that better than you[17:11:03] <Ingenu> whether you like them or not depends on what alternative you have tried[17:11:04] <senryu_user> theres nothing wrong with folders and the BeOS file system make serach very easy[17:11:09] <kirilla> data.. yum![17:11:42] <Ingenu> I suppose if you ate dog food forever you wouldn't be able to like anything else[17:11:43] <senryu_user> Well considering I have been using computer for 25 years I am totally ok with the folder concept and I have used other system. Most were a complete pain in the ass[17:11:46] <Ingenu> but that's not really the topic[17:12:16] <Ingenu> but people have no fucking clue about files and what not[17:12:17] <scgtrp> Ingenu: it's not a matter of being used to it. they literally are easier for me to use than throwing everything in one place and searching.[17:12:21] *** vooshy has quit IRC[17:12:28] <Ingenu> I've seen people unable to open a file which wasn't in the recent history[17:12:34] <tim_> its not what you like its what the general population likes[17:12:42] <Ingenu> why do you think that solution is meant for the general public ?[17:12:53] <scgtrp> i am currently running windows 7 with the search components completely removed, and it's awesome[17:12:56] <senryu_user> um, have you used the BeOS file system ?[17:13:02] <senryu_user> finding stuff in haiku is super easy[17:13:18] <Ingenu> used BeOS and live queries ?[17:13:20] <tim_> people these days are gettong more fond of the tablet interface[17:13:21] <Ingenu> they are fast[17:13:22] <scgtrp> tim_: i don't ask that my way is the only way supported, i only ask that it is supported at all[17:13:23] <Ingenu> nothing like windows[17:13:37] <scgtrp> Ingenu: nope, i have no use for them[17:13:43] <senryu_user> tablet interface isn't any different[17:13:46] <kirilla> data collections exist in a lot of forms[17:13:47] <Ingenu> tablet interface is app centric, simple[17:13:57] <senryu_user> its just window dressing its a fancy decorator[17:14:15] <tim_> senryu_user: you saying that you put windows and andriod together there the same[17:14:18] <talimanB> tim, the tab interface just an app[17:14:20] <senryu_user> personally I find linux appliance annoying to use[17:14:31] <Ingenu> well what we do is : I want to listen to X, and we do remember were we put X and then we go through the hierarchy to find it back[17:14:44] <senryu_user> tim yeah there basically the same thing, some underlying differences in the mechanism but the biggest differences are window dressing.[17:14:51] <scgtrp> Ingenu: i have still not heard a solution for storing a source tree with a thousand makefiles which all have the same name in one folder[17:14:55] <Ingenu> what I think is easier is : I want to listen to X, ask the computer to play it :p[17:15:09] <senryu_user> um, query the file and double click it[17:15:14] <senryu_user> its not rocket science[17:15:28] <Ingenu> yes[17:15:33] <Ingenu> don't browse through your folders[17:15:33] <kirilla> scgtrp: we're the special case :I[17:15:38] <Ingenu> just ask it to find it for you[17:15:39] <scgtrp> Ingenu: again, i am not asking that searching isn't supported, that's silly. i'm asking that the os doesn't force me to do things the way that the os designers thought i'd like[17:15:40] <senryu_user> so query[17:15:49] <Ingenu> I just think that going through the player to do that might be better[17:16:16] *** tim_ has quit IRC[17:16:26] <Ingenu> well the idea is that you replace the "open" window with a "search" window as the standard in apps[17:16:41] <Ingenu> if you want to play with your filesystem, you have a filebrowser app or whatever[17:16:42] <scgtrp> and then you're forcing me into a paradigm that doesn't work for me.[17:17:06] <Ingenu> just like you ARE forced into another paradigm atm[17:17:14] <scgtrp> yes, but this one works for me ;)[17:17:28] <scgtrp> by all means, go ahead and *support* it[17:17:28] <Ingenu> you're just used to it[17:17:32] <Ingenu> people will be used to the new system[17:17:33] <senryu_user> http://www.filedump.net/dumped/screenshot11302189477.png[17:17:36] <scgtrp> *facepalm*[17:17:42] <senryu_user> http://www.filedump.net/dumped/screenshot21302189477.png[17:17:43] <scgtrp> "you're used to it, but it really sucks. trust me!"[17:17:44] <Ingenu> why shoudl it be more difficult for them because it was for you ?[17:17:49] <senryu_user> http://www.filedump.net/dumped/screenshot31302189477.png[17:17:53] <senryu_user> that wasn't that hard[17:18:01] <scgtrp> Ingenu: i am *not* proposing not allowing searching[17:18:13] <scgtrp> Ingenu: i am proposing not removing existing features in an attempt to get people to use new features[17:18:13] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[17:18:34] <Ingenu> I want a paradigm shift[17:18:35] <senryu_user> or are the new features even better ?[17:18:41] <Ingenu> that implies changing existing stuff[17:18:41] <scgtrp> senryu_user: for some people, sure[17:18:42] *** prkc has joined #haiku[17:18:45] <senryu_user> you know what they say about wanting[17:19:05] <Ingenu> well as an experienced user I don't really care[17:19:06] <scgtrp> some people work with guis better than with terminals. should we abolish terminals?[17:19:07] <Ingenu> I'll adapt[17:19:09] *** Clay_ has quit IRC[17:19:14] <senryu_user> want in one hand shit in the other, see which one files up first[17:19:15] <Ingenu> and I'm quite good with the current way[17:19:27] <Ingenu> however, my experience shows that I'm in a minority[17:19:37] <Ingenu> most people have no clue how to use a computer[17:19:40] <scgtrp> Ingenu: ... i think you're still not getting what i'm saying.[17:19:44] <Ingenu> and another system might just be way better[17:19:57] <Ingenu> but as long as people used to the old way will be unwilling to change...[17:20:02] <Ingenu> resist change[17:20:07] <Ingenu> the most annoying thing in human nature[17:20:12] <Ingenu> (one of rather)[17:20:12] * scgtrp gives up and wanders off to be productive[17:20:46] <Ingenu> you said you didn't want to change the default "Open" window when it's the whole point of the new system...[17:21:17] <scgtrp> did i at any point use the word 'default'?[17:21:19] <senryu_user> Ingenu folders/files/ these are all abstractions[17:21:33] <senryu_user> the truth is that folders work just fine[17:21:37] <Ingenu> I think it's a pain to have too many options[17:21:52] <scgtrp> i disagree. set it up how you want it then forget about it[17:21:55] <senryu_user> Ingenu you a mac user ?[17:21:56] <scgtrp> let others do the same[17:21:57] <Ingenu> people I've seen using computers are clueless about files & folders[17:21:59] <Ingenu> they just don't get it[17:22:06] <scgtrp> fair enough. make searching the default, even[17:22:08] <Ingenu> and don't tell me the majority of people aren't like that[17:22:20] <senryu_user> Ingenu not to be rude but , are they people you watching mentally disabled ?[17:22:22] <scgtrp> but *don't completely disallow me from doing things the 'old-fashioned' way*[17:22:32] <Ingenu> no they aren't[17:22:34] <scgtrp> that's all i ask.[17:22:40] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[17:22:40] <NeonLicht> The majority are, Ingenu.[17:22:42] <senryu_user> would could be simpler ? I mean its a file cabinet[17:22:55] <senryu_user> ever use a file cabinet ?[17:23:03] <Ingenu> scgtrp, mmh because I think two "Open" windows is twice the work ;p[17:23:11] <scgtrp> Ingenu: except one is already implemented.[17:23:15] <Ingenu> but yes you could have an option in the OS somewhere to do it[17:23:28] <Ingenu> file centric or folder centric option[17:23:30] <senryu_user> http://www.closetsideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/file-cabinet.jpg[17:23:37] <scgtrp> write new code, add radio button to preferences window somewhere[17:23:41] <senryu_user> the thing is, you always have the cabinet[17:23:49] <scgtrp> other way: write new code, remove old code[17:23:56] <scgtrp> it's not really that much more work[17:24:03] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[17:24:09] <senryu_user> the thing is, if you take the file folders out of the cabinet you just get a big ass mess ![17:24:40] <senryu_user> its like saying your anti orginazation ![17:24:52] <Ingenu> well I could see users being app centric[17:24:57] <Ingenu> and devs being file centric[17:25:00] <Ingenu> it makes sense[17:25:16] <senryu_user> apps are file centric[17:25:17] <scgtrp> i would argue that the majority of developers are familiar with folders[17:25:20] <Ingenu> in fact I don't think we could do it any other way[17:25:44] <Ingenu> yes not only they are, but they'll have to ship a whole set of files for their app anyway[17:25:53] <Ingenu> so it makes more sense for them to see the naked truth[17:26:03] <senryu_user> umm, what truth is that ?[17:26:07] <Ingenu> but an abstraction layer above that is likely a good idea for users[17:26:08] <kirilla> I think Haiku needs to step up to the UI development that is taking place.[17:26:13] <senryu_user> how would propose library segrgation ?[17:26:44] <Ingenu> from the file system point of view or even OS nothing would change[17:26:52] <senryu_user> what if 2 librarys have similar or the same file name ?[17:26:54] <talimanB> no need to change, it exists for its own nature =)[17:26:55] <Ingenu> (or almost, it would just auto save documents were appropriate)[17:27:23] <Ingenu> abstraction... it doesn't mean the underlying concept has changed, just the way to access it for the user[17:27:48] <Ingenu> your view of the system is different, the way you use it is different, under the hood there's barely any change[17:27:49] <senryu_user> the user will notice absolutely no difference[17:27:59] *** kampsun has joined #haiku[17:28:08] <senryu_user> except that now instead of having things organized its a big damn mess[17:28:08] <Ingenu> files will be easier to find[17:28:15] <senryu_user> no they will be harder to find[17:28:20] <Ingenu> apps will be the heart of the system[17:28:25] <Ingenu> they'll just remember what app does waht[17:28:27] <Ingenu> period[17:28:45] <senryu_user> each app could share or have its own data structure currently[17:28:49] <Ingenu> start vlc to watch videos, start clamp to listen to music[17:29:09] <senryu_user> you could have a single folder every app puts it data into. then you could call it Clusterfuck[17:29:33] <talimanB> just like Launcher, ADW-Launcher or any other xLaunchers of android-tab[17:29:41] <Ingenu> kirilla, why do you think so ?[17:30:00] <senryu_user> haiku has some ui issues.[17:30:09] <senryu_user> nothing huge but some stuff is counter intuative[17:30:31] <Ingenu> ah[17:30:37] <Ingenu> well it's still alpha[17:30:40] <Ingenu> so feature complete[17:30:42] <Ingenu> but nothing esle[17:30:44] <Ingenu> else*[17:31:13] <kampsun> Hey, I'm reading "Learning to Program with Haiku" and in Lesson 15 there's a so called layout of Haiku. What interest's me where can I find some more info about kernel and these servers displayed there?[17:31:21] *** GedMurphy has quit IRC[17:31:23] <kampsun> Sorry for that wall of text. :|[17:31:46] <Ingenu> wall of text ?[17:31:47] <Ingenu> where ?[17:31:47] <talimanB> once i saw title bar in the middle of window, is that bug?[17:32:09] <Ingenu> sliding thing ?[17:32:12] <Ingenu> no it's a feature[17:32:17] <Ingenu> you can make them slide[17:32:19] <talimanB> k[17:32:35] <Ingenu> sliding tabs I think it was called[17:32:41] <kirilla> Ingenu: I just think things need to be simpler, easier, more consumable[17:33:05] <Ingenu> kirilla, do you have idea or a source of inspiration to achieve that ?[17:33:16] <kirilla> less moving windows around, storing documents actively, doing backups, managing stuff :P[17:33:38] <Ingenu> kampsun, I read about that a long time ago for BeOS, I have no idea were you could find anything, so use your favourite search engine...[17:33:46] <talimanB> i think base system is strong and stable, decorations and theme is for UI enhance[17:33:51] <kirilla> Ingenu: not really, no[17:34:02] <talimanB> ppl can install third party enhancement app on any system[17:34:09] <talimanB> just like mod[17:34:09] *** TomManAway is now known as TomMan81[17:34:14] <talimanB> no big deal[17:34:26] <Ingenu> I don't trust third party tools to change my system[17:34:31] <Ingenu> that's a pretty big deal IMO[17:35:16] <senryu_user> Kampsun I think this is what you were asking about http://www.haiku-os.org/documents/dev/laying_it_all_out_part_1[17:35:37] <kirilla> bbl[17:35:38] *** kirilla has quit IRC[17:36:02] <senryu_user> yet you trust third party for your system ?[17:37:56] <talimanB> at least i trust irrsi themes =)[17:38:06] <talimanB> irssi, sorry[17:40:07] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[17:41:06] <kampsun> senryu_user: Actually I was more or less talking about layout of operating system as such. Like displayed on that picture: http://i.imgur.com/Bs8zY.png[17:41:57] <kampsun> And what I was asking about the inner workings of Kernel and Servers portraied on that picture.[17:43:22] <kampsun> Or maybe not so much inner, but atlest the overview.[17:45:26] *** TomMan81 is now known as TomManAway[17:49:10] <talimanB> http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/haiku_kernel_architecture_questions_0[17:52:49] *** talimanB has quit IRC[18:01:26] *** prkc is now known as negusnyul[18:02:20] *** Colin_Finck|lap has quit IRC[18:02:50] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[18:03:37] *** MUILTFN has quit IRC[18:10:11] *** kampsun has quit IRC[18:14:02] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[18:18:13] *** prkc has joined #haiku[18:21:13] *** MadVector has joined #haiku[18:21:22] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[18:22:00] *** duvjones has quit IRC[18:34:48] *** senryu_user has quit IRC[18:36:31] <CIA-81> Haiku: humdinger * r41193 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/screenshot/ScreenshotWindow.cpp: Using DefaultItemSpacing() and DefaultLabelSpacing() as suggested by Axel.[18:40:12] *** augiedoggie has joined #haiku[18:50:25] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[18:56:30] *** kPb_in has joined #haiku[18:57:24] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[18:57:34] *** asb_ has quit IRC[19:00:56] *** asb has joined #haiku[19:05:17] *** negusnyul_ has joined #haiku[19:08:49] *** prkc has quit IRC[19:08:54] *** TomManAway is now known as TomMan81[19:10:34] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[19:13:30] *** nagesh has joined #haiku[19:13:41] *** adominguez has quit IRC[19:20:10] *** MUILTFN has joined #haiku[19:20:33] *** _marc` has quit IRC[19:20:39] *** ab5tract has joined #haiku[19:22:18] *** TomMan81 is now known as TomManAway[19:22:38] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[19:24:14] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[19:25:58] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[19:29:00] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[19:35:21] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[19:36:32] *** Senryu_user has joined #haiku[19:40:02] <Senryu_user> does anyone here know how to attach a icon to a program ?[19:40:13] <Senryu_user> I have google and either I missed it or its obscrueed.[19:41:18] <Teknomancer> right click File Types[19:41:20] <Teknomancer> and drop the icon in[19:41:21] *** Xorlev has joined #haiku[19:41:59] *** Xorlev has left #haiku[19:42:20] <Senryu_user> hmm[19:42:22] <Senryu_user> hang on[19:42:59] <Senryu_user> not really sure[19:43:33] <Senryu_user> I got file types open, do you just drag the icon into the icon box ?[19:45:44] <Senryu_user> that didn't work[19:47:40] <Senryu_user> there a link ?[19:48:40] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[19:55:57] *** kPb_in has quit IRC[19:56:17] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[19:57:12] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[20:01:45] <scgtrp> wheee[20:01:49] * scgtrp can has new monitor[20:03:14] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[20:04:39] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[20:05:44] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[20:06:04] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[20:06:17] <Senryu_user> nice, what did you get ?[20:07:36] <lorglas> hello[20:08:02] <Senryu_user> hi[20:08:41] <lorglas> knew anyone, on which date the next begeistert is?[20:09:06] <Senryu_user> I haven't seen any announcements[20:10:34] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[20:11:16] *** lollo64it has quit IRC[20:11:25] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[20:12:31] *** lollo64it has joined #haiku[20:12:35] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[20:16:10] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[20:17:30] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[20:18:09] *** negusnyul__ has joined #haiku[20:21:43] *** negusnyul_ has quit IRC[20:22:32] *** TomManAway is now known as TomMan81[20:23:34] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[20:24:24] *** Senryu_user has quit IRC[20:26:56] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[20:27:16] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[20:28:13] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[20:29:34] *** lollo64it has quit IRC[20:34:16] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[20:45:59] *** Pinaraf has joined #haiku[20:48:10] *** Nies has quit IRC[20:50:01] <lorglas> cu[20:50:07] *** lorglas has quit IRC[20:50:39] *** dru--_ has joined 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IRC[22:16:41] *** fengshaun has joined #haiku[22:18:11] *** cnuke has joined #haiku[22:19:16] *** elliottcable is now known as ec|detached[22:22:29] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[22:24:35] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[22:28:15] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[22:30:55] *** TomMan81 is now known as TomManAway[22:32:25] *** dru--_ has quit IRC[22:38:43] <CIA-81> Haiku: korli * r41194 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/busses/usb/ (ehci.cpp ohci.cpp): added traces for unimplemented isochronous transfers for ehci and ohci[22:40:47] *** Senryu_user has joined #haiku[22:41:49] *** Senryu_user has quit IRC[22:47:47] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[22:49:05] *** MadVector has quit IRC[22:51:01] *** |WiZ| has quit IRC[22:53:24] *** oZ] has quit IRC[22:54:40] *** supereater14 has joined #haiku[22:55:39] <supereater14> when i try to boot haiku on this one computer, i get rainbow stripes[22:56:15] <supereater14> anyone know why?[22:57:00] <augiedoggie> don't you like rainbows?[22:57:17] <supereater14> well, i was hoping to get a desktop...[22:57:55] <augiedoggie> you might go into the boot menu and turn on a safe video mode[22:58:12] <augiedoggie> hold shift before it boots[22:58:18] <supereater14> hold on...[22:59:02] <CIA-81> Haiku: korli * r41195 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/media-add-ons/usb_webcam/ (CamDevice.cpp CamDevice.h Producer.cpp):[22:59:03] <CIA-81> * style fixes.[22:59:03] <CIA-81> * added SuggestVideoFrame() so that this can be overriden.[22:59:44] <supereater14> hmmm... still not working[23:00:21] <augiedoggie> there are two different video mode options, there is one in the other menu like "use failsafe"[23:00:29] <augiedoggie> did you try both?[23:02:50] <supereater14> okay, will try now, btw here's a pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30217529@N03/5598430865/[23:03:14] <augiedoggie> looks like some kind of monitor test screen[23:03:21] <augiedoggie> I haven't seen that from haiku before[23:04:20] <augiedoggie> btw, you need to clean your computer area :P[23:04:32] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[23:04:56] *** ec|detached is now known as elliottcable[23:05:10] <idefix_xifedi> that's the 16 color test screen Haiku shows when it can only use vga[23:05:23] <supereater14> okay, now nothing shows up on the screen...[23:05:36] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[23:06:19] <idefix_xifedi> it looks like even vesa is not working if you get that screen when you boot Haiku without modifying any boot options[23:07:07] <supereater14> well, it works on one of my other computers...[23:07:34] <idefix_xifedi> yes, but apparently not on this one :)[23:08:12] <supereater14> yeah, i guess it just wasn't made for computers made before 2000, oh, well[23:09:02] *** supereater14 has quit IRC[23:09:02] <augiedoggie> it can run on much older machines[23:09:52] *** oZ] has joined #haiku[23:10:23] <idefix_xifedi> it runs on my computer from 1998[23:10:58] <idefix_xifedi> what kind of video card does that computer have?[23:11:12] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[23:11:27] *** MUILTFN has quit IRC[23:12:38] <idefix_xifedi> oh, he's gone...pity[23:13:39] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:19:03] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[23:22:33] *** oZ] has quit IRC[23:26:10] *** MUILTFN has joined #haiku[23:28:04] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[23:28:53] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[23:29:10] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[23:35:03] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:44:29] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[23:51:38] *** AlonzoTG has quit IRC[23:53:56] <CIA-81> Haiku: korli * r41196 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/media-add-ons/usb_webcam/addons/uvc/ (UVCCamDevice.cpp UVCCamDevice.h):[23:53:56] <CIA-81> * improves traces[23:53:56] <CIA-81> * added _ProbeCommitFormat() and _SelectBestAlternate()[23:53:56] <CIA-81> * to be noticed: BUSBInterface::SetAlternate() isn't const and there is no mean to get a non-const BUSBInterface.[23:54:07] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku