April 1, 2010 
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April 1, 2010 [00:00:42] *** Sloar has joined #haiku[00:02:58] *** raichoo has quit IRC[00:06:29] <OmniMancer> DraX: ?[00:06:39] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[00:06:47] *** Kroki has quit IRC[00:07:21] <OmniMancer> Disreali: next week I will figure out what the hack was that makes llvm compile[00:07:32] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[00:08:08] *** impy has joined #haiku[00:08:54] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[00:09:17] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[00:11:42] *** jsmaniac has quit IRC[00:12:09] *** Geoz is now known as Jeoz[00:14:25] *** luroh has quit IRC[00:16:47] *** impy has quit IRC[00:17:57] *** impy has joined #haiku[00:20:22] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku[00:26:23] *** CK|Haiku has joined #haiku[00:27:12] *** l3thal_ has quit IRC[00:28:07] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[00:32:06] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[00:43:11] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:50:59] *** CK|Haiku has quit IRC[00:51:10] *** david3 has quit IRC[00:51:55] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[00:55:46] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku[01:05:06] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[01:11:46] *** mvfranz has joined #haiku[01:39:20] *** wildur has quit IRC[01:41:32] *** MrBlueSky has joined #haiku[02:07:59] *** nopper has quit IRC[02:10:36] *** cps1966 has joined #haiku[02:18:46] *** aldeck has quit IRC[02:19:14] *** Andrius has quit IRC[02:21:11] *** jvff has joined #haiku[02:21:20] <jvff> Hi =)[02:22:37] *** tgunr has quit IRC[02:23:58] <cps1966> hey can haiku do drives yet[02:24:07] <jvff> Does anyone know what the file_map_translate function does?[02:24:22] <jvff> Its from the file cache[02:26:24] <DraX> ``do drives''?[02:26:29] *** mvfranz has quit IRC[02:28:58] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[02:30:40] <cps1966> fromat them to befs[02:31:12] <cps1966> yesterdays nightly build[02:31:14] <DraX> you can format them, not so sure about partioning them though[02:32:07] <cps1966> my os bitches about doing them[02:32:49] *** tgunr has joined #haiku[02:33:16] *** MrBlueSky has quit IRC[02:33:49] *** cps1966 has left #haiku[02:36:14] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[02:47:35] *** oco has quit IRC[02:48:03] <OmniMancer> DraX: it can do intel partition map but I don't trust it DriveSetup to do anything except initialise a partition on a drive where I have important things[02:48:18] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku[03:00:17] <Disreali> omg! sound works?![03:00:26] * Disreali dances[03:00:45] <OmniMancer> yay[03:01:04] <OmniMancer> Disreali: next week I shall find out what hack I needed to make llvm work :P then I will tell you[03:01:55] <Disreali> cool[03:02:20] <Disreali> hopefully, I will understand more about llvm by then[03:02:26] <OmniMancer> :P[03:02:52] <OmniMancer> its just a hack to do with something to do with sigaction not working in the llvm/lib/System stuff[03:03:05] <OmniMancer> I hope nothing needs it since it won't work right if it does :P[03:03:12] *** MrBlueSky has joined #haiku[03:04:46] <mmadia> OmniMancer : "[HaikuPorts-devs] [PATCH v4 3/8] Handle lack of SA_SIGINFO" on http://lists.ports.haiku-files.org/pipermail/haikuports-devs-ports.haiku-files.org/ may be useful[03:05:03] <OmniMancer> hmmm[03:05:06] <OmniMancer> perhaps[03:05:19] <OmniMancer> or poking someone till they implement siginfo :P[03:05:27] <OmniMancer> I do have to go...[03:05:29] * mmadia pokes OmniMancer[03:05:37] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[03:06:06] * OmniMancer doesn't know how or have time, does need to fix the memory one though[03:06:11] <OmniMancer> see you guys next week[03:06:25] <Disreali> later[03:06:55] * Disreali reads jam documentation[03:07:48] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[03:08:03] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[03:08:10] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku[03:19:05] <Disreali> anyone remember wher the bestartup.wav was located?[03:27:51] *** MrBlueSky has quit IRC[03:35:52] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[03:36:02] *** margiolas has quit IRC[03:40:27] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku[03:41:59] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[03:43:19] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[03:44:45] *** Sloar has left #haiku[03:52:16] *** Nozy has quit IRC[04:05:11] *** OlaHughson has quit IRC[04:07:47] *** Jeoz has quit IRC[04:08:50] *** Disreali has quit IRC[04:14:57] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[04:24:19] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[04:24:45] *** Nozy has quit IRC[04:26:31] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[04:30:51] *** jvff has quit IRC[04:51:35] *** Barrett has quit IRC[04:56:41] *** prOSy has joined #haiku[05:15:50] *** l_n has joined #haiku[05:20:14] *** l_n has quit IRC[05:36:16] *** owll has joined #haiku[05:37:33] *** owll has left #haiku[05:52:27] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[05:56:50] *** madechidna has quit IRC[06:09:04] *** Koki_ has joined #haiku[06:16:49] *** Koki_ has left #haiku[06:20:00] * helf|laptop created a new background[06:20:03] <helf|laptop> thought it turned out nicely[06:20:03] <helf|laptop> http://www.flickr.com/photos/helfer/4479269575/in/photostream/[06:24:22] <jmayfield> springy[06:26:29] <AlienSoldier> just add spleeny to it :P[06:27:45] <helf|laptop> :p[06:27:49] <helf|laptop> took it today[06:28:18] <AlienSoldier> helf|laptop want to make mey with those?[06:28:22] <AlienSoldier> money[06:28:30] <helf|laptop> sure[06:30:26] <AlienSoldier> helf|laptop take a look at this http://www.istockphoto.com/index.php[06:32:13] <helf|laptop> oh sweet[06:34:31] *** prOSy has quit IRC[06:38:08] <helf|laptop> AlienSoldier, this looks pretty cool. ill haveto go through the application to become a seller this weekend[06:38:49] <AlienSoldier> i will do anything to prevent you to sell your NeXT :)[06:41:36] <helf|laptop> lol[06:41:48] <helf|laptop> i still havent put it on eBay,but i have someone interested in it[06:41:49] <helf|laptop> :p[06:44:00] <AlienSoldier> i wonder if we will ever see a Natami like project at recreate a NeXT, i guess the hardware is less documented[06:44:11] <helf|laptop> yeah, sadly[06:44:23] <helf|laptop> I wish someone would do it, tho[06:44:31] <helf|laptop> a 400mhz 68k NeXT would be epic :p[07:03:26] *** hdanak has quit IRC[07:08:20] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[07:11:41] *** CK|iPod has joined #haiku[07:16:21] *** hdanak has quit IRC[07:17:26] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[07:19:16] *** Alam_Squeeze has quit IRC[07:19:22] *** Alam_Squeeze has joined #haiku[07:22:44] *** mmadia has quit IRC[07:29:32] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[07:55:29] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[07:59:50] *** tgunr has quit IRC[08:05:13] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[08:07:58] *** wildur has joined #haiku[08:10:45] *** hdanak has quit IRC[08:11:01] *** kallisti6 has quit IRC[08:12:24] *** kallisti6 has joined #haiku[08:13:38] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC[08:13:52] *** CK|iPod has joined #haiku[08:15:38] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[08:23:47] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[08:30:24] *** e-jones has joined #haiku[08:59:11] *** tqh has joined #haiku[09:08:37] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[09:10:31] *** Mixer has quit IRC[09:12:18] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[09:16:40] *** jsmaniac has joined #haiku[09:18:09] *** jsmaniac has quit IRC[09:18:16] *** sprma has quit IRC[09:24:09] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC[09:30:06] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[09:34:21] *** raichoo has quit IRC[09:41:37] *** wildur has quit IRC[09:43:04] *** wildur has joined #haiku[09:44:14] *** The123king has joined #haiku[09:45:44] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[09:49:24] *** The123king has quit IRC[09:49:26] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[09:51:04] *** Andrius has quit IRC[09:55:34] *** Advant has quit IRC[09:56:34] *** Advant has joined #haiku[09:57:26] *** Mixer has joined #haiku[09:58:29] *** The123king has joined #haiku[09:59:45] *** The123king has quit IRC[10:00:12] *** Advant has quit IRC[10:01:35] *** The123king has joined #haiku[10:02:20] *** Advant has joined #haiku[10:24:30] *** hdanak has quit IRC[10:24:49] *** MasterStarman has quit IRC[10:25:20] *** chronoz has quit IRC[10:26:40] <eml> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5 for onboard network cards this problem might be work around-able by enabling "Onboard LAN boot rom" in BIOS. I'd like to share the information but I'm not sure where.[10:32:21] *** Advant- has joined #haiku[10:32:54] *** Advant has quit IRC[10:40:44] <JonathanThompson> eml: haikuware.com IIRC has a hardware compatibility matrix, and quite likely a place to post that sort of information as a hint for the general public not wanting to search through bug reports.[10:41:11] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[10:41:18] *** wildur has quit IRC[11:02:17] *** dakdagi has joined #haiku[11:06:51] *** tqh has quit IRC[11:11:40] <sevcsik> hi[11:13:27] <sevcsik> is it acceptable to implement services kit with curl, and later port it to the haiku network framework when it's ready?[11:35:12] *** ragcsee has quit IRC[11:43:45] *** tqh has joined #haiku[11:54:13] *** leszek has joined #haiku[11:54:40] <leszek> hi[11:56:32] *** Geoz has joined #haiku[11:56:32] *** ragcsee has joined #haiku[12:03:31] *** dakdagi has quit IRC[12:11:59] *** david3 has joined #haiku[12:16:01] <JonathanThompson> ho[12:23:30] *** fly-away has joined #haiku[12:28:58] *** wildur has joined #haiku[12:45:18] *** Geoz has quit IRC[12:47:31] *** Geoz has joined #haiku[12:57:04] *** nopper has joined #haiku[12:57:47] *** wildur has quit IRC[12:58:11] *** wildur has joined #haiku[13:07:08] *** tqh has quit IRC[13:12:57] *** wildur has quit IRC[13:13:04] *** NightlyUser has joined #haiku[13:15:32] <NightlyUser> hey guys, my wireless works with haiku[13:15:49] <NightlyUser> wohoo[13:16:05] <NightlyUser> intel3945[13:16:51] <NightlyUser> i feel really happy[13:16:57] <JonathanThompson> Lucky you![13:17:18] <NightlyUser> i'm still using the ethernet though[13:17:35] <NightlyUser> since i'm waiting for wep to be included[13:17:44] <JonathanThompson> Backup?[13:17:56] * JonathanThompson wants certain things in Colloquy fixed...[13:18:34] *** margiolas has joined #haiku[13:18:54] <NightlyUser> i was suprised to see it connect to a bt hotspot[13:19:25] *** Atomozero has joined #haiku[13:19:37] <NightlyUser> apparantly it just automatically connects to the nearest strongest unencrypted network[13:20:40] <NightlyUser> for those wondering, i'm using r36004 gcc4hybrid[13:27:06] *** kusum has joined #haiku[13:27:30] <kusum> Hello all[13:27:43] <kusum> Can i speak to any GSOC admin here?[13:27:49] <kusum> pls very urgent[13:29:16] <Auronandace> i think you'll find most of them on the mail list[13:29:40] <kusum> I had a new idea[13:29:41] <Auronandace> i prefer irc myself, but not all the admins do[13:29:51] <Auronandace> not that i'm an admin mind you[13:30:03] <kusum> I wanted to discuss and then do further research[13:30:13] <kusum> Auronandace: np[13:31:06] <Auronandace> you can voice your idea here if you like[13:31:28] <Auronandace> also, there's a forum on the haiku-os website[13:35:37] *** luroh has joined #haiku[13:36:24] <kusum> Auronandace: I was thinking of Wubi like ubuntu isntaller for Haiku too[13:37:38] <kusum> Auronandace: der?[13:38:17] <Auronandace> good idea, but i always got the impression that most people who are aware of haiku usually come from a linux background[13:38:59] <kusum> It's always good to have this option as it opens Haiku to al new dimension of users[13:39:07] <Auronandace> since linux users are much more likely to distro-hop[13:39:17] <kusum> once they get used to Haiku they wil start using it more[13:39:19] <Auronandace> but yeah, you're right[13:39:33] <Auronandace> it's good to have the option there[13:40:02] <kusum> I did a lot of research work on how to import this to other OS[13:40:19] *** BGA has joined #haiku[13:40:19] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o BGA[13:40:28] <kusum> I was wondering if some mentor would be interested to mentor me[13:40:46] <Auronandace> how would it be different from running haiku in a vm?[13:40:48] *** david3 has quit IRC[13:41:29] <kusum> vm is not so convenient if we want to make complete utilisation of OS[13:41:50] <kusum> if done in dual boot , the user can make best use of his hardware[13:42:51] <kusum> Auronandace: it's my opinion[13:43:19] <Auronandace> if the wubi installer for ubuntu is popular, then i don't see why not[13:44:01] <kusum> wubi would have atleast increased it's user percentage by 150%[13:44:19] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[13:44:33] <kusum> 90% of my campus student prefer having it on wubi than have it at all[13:45:11] <kusum> Auronandace: Could you tell me when can i talk to a GSOC admin here?[13:45:33] <Auronandace> i'm not really a coder, so i wouldn't know the complications of implementing it[13:45:46] <Auronandace> sorry, not sure who are the mentors[13:46:06] <kusum> I am already in touch with Agostino whos the original Author of Wubi[13:46:11] <kusum> he said he would help[13:47:08] <Auronandace> there's a gsoc 2010 page on the haiku-os website[13:47:21] <Auronandace> maybe that has contact info on there[13:48:00] <luroh> kusum: mmadia is the gsoc admin, he's from the u.s. east coast and is usually online in the afternoon, local time[13:49:01] <BGA> kusum: What do you want to know?[13:50:22] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[13:51:58] <kusum> BGA: Hello[13:52:11] <kusum> I wanted to develop Wubi like isntaller for Haiku[13:52:18] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[13:52:46] <kusum> BGA: I was wondering if Haiku would be interested to mentor this project[13:53:44] <kusum> BGA: I'm from India[13:53:52] <kusum> it's 5 in the evening[13:54:12] <kusum> Could you tell when i could contat mmadia ?[13:56:03] <BGA> kusum: I am not sure.[13:56:17] <BGA> I think we have the starts of an installer already in place.[13:56:22] <BGA> So this may overlap with that.[13:56:36] <kirilla> kusum: the haiku-development mailing-list is "always on" ;)[13:56:52] <BGA> No idea. But what exactly do you expect form him?[13:57:00] <BGA> from[14:00:26] <kusum> I just want to know if somebody will be ready to mentor this project[14:00:28] *** leszek has quit IRC[14:02:05] *** Atomozero has quit IRC[14:02:06] <BGA> kusum: Well, I just told you what the case is, didn't I? :)[14:02:27] <kusum> yeah[14:02:29] <kirilla> Do we have a core developer who is also skilled enough on the Windows side?[14:02:35] <kusum> could Matt help me with this?[14:02:40] <BGA> If you want to work on our current installer prototype, that would be ok. But I am pretty sure working on something else that overlaps with that would not.[14:03:07] <BGA> kusum: Well, he would ask me and the other mentors.[14:03:08] <kusum> AS i said I'm in touch with Agostino whos the Author of Wubi and said he will help me as required[14:03:29] <BGA> kusum: That is not the point.[14:03:39] <kusum> BGA: yeah true[14:04:35] <kusum> BGA: could you brief me on the installer made ? I mean what does it do[14:07:05] <kirilla> Wubi looks a bit like how BeOS R5 could be installed in a file on a FAT-formatted windows installation[14:07:39] <BGA> I think it is more of a proof of concept right now. But it is intended to make use of Haiku-specific stuff, like extended attributes, queries, node monitoring, etc...[14:08:56] <kirilla> BGA: is this some Windows-side Haiku installer you're talking about? (never heard of it)[14:09:16] <kirilla> BGA: or are you talking about the current Haiku Installer?[14:10:32] <kirilla> I wonder what the status is on the Haiku USB stick installer for Windows.[14:11:04] *** Atomozero has joined #haiku[14:12:42] <kirilla> kusum: so this is basically a tool that lets you install Ubuntu without repartitioning to dedicate a partition?[14:13:07] <kirilla> kusum: it does need to be rebooted into?[14:13:28] <kusum> kirilla:[14:13:44] <kusum> It needs to reboot to finish installation of the actual OS[14:14:01] <kusum> Wubi makes the base for installing it inside windows[14:14:12] <kusum> when we restart the actual OS is installed[14:14:28] <kirilla> And when you want to run it you have to exit Windows?[14:14:52] <BGA> kirilla: I am talking about an application installer that was discussed at some point (someone seem to have written a draft about it.[14:14:54] <saivert> doesn't it run off a harddisk image file?[14:14:57] <BGA> But now that you mention...[14:14:58] <saivert> via some GRUB magic[14:15:03] <kusum> it is similar to dual boot[14:15:10] <kusum> except that we dont have to make partition[14:15:14] <BGA> kusum: Do you mean installer as a *SYSTEM* installer or a generic app installer?[14:15:27] <saivert> GRUB can load harddisk images and boot them. no need for a partition for the OS[14:15:54] <kirilla> BGA: he's talking about Haiku-in-a-file on an NTFS filesystem[14:16:02] <saivert> thats what I thought[14:16:08] <kusum> in the grub file we have a line like this[14:16:09] <kusum> C:\wubildr.mbr = "Ubuntu"[14:16:16] <kirilla> BGA: and the installer to set that upp[14:16:16] <BGA> LOL![14:16:22] <kusum> kirilla: you are correct[14:16:22] <BGA> Then forget about all that I said.[14:16:40] <kusum> Haiku-in-a-file on an NTFS filesystem[14:16:40] * BGA should not enter any discussions before 9 am. :P[14:16:54] <kusum> BGA: what's the time now ?[14:16:54] <saivert> also doesn't Haiku already have a common installer system for apps?[14:16:56] <BGA> kusum: So yes, you can present your proposal.[14:17:00] <saivert> once you can booted to Haiku that is[14:17:03] <kusum> hehe great[14:17:07] <BGA> Just use the normal channels and the mentors will decide.[14:17:21] <BGA> kusum: 9:20 here.[14:17:22] <BGA> AM[14:17:28] <kusum> normal channels are GSOC website ?[14:17:39] <kirilla> kusum: student/project <-> mentor is a late-binding kind of thing[14:17:51] <kusum> i directly submit my proposal on GSOC website[14:17:56] <kusum> is it ?[14:18:08] <BGA> kusum: Yep.[14:18:17] <kusum> BGA: kirilla : you are the GSOC mentors for Haiku i believe[14:18:21] <kirilla> kusum: but we could probably give you an educated guess on the mailing-list whether or not we think it's feasible as a project and whether we have someone with the right skill set[14:18:35] <BGA> kusum: I am one of the mentors, yes.[14:18:45] <kirilla> kusum: I have not yet signed up for mentoring, and am still undecided[14:18:46] <kusum> BGA: great[14:18:46] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[14:19:00] <BGA> And I agree with kirilla. You can always mail haiku-development and get some feedback there.[14:19:03] <saivert> well if Grub is capable of setting up the harddisk image and booting it without any help from the Haiku kernel then it should be easy[14:19:10] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[14:19:30] <kirilla> saivert: Haiku has no write-support for NTFS[14:19:37] <saivert> on the other hand Microsoft supports loading Win7 and Win2008 R2 server from VHD images but that is becaue those operating systems has native VHD support in the kernel[14:19:41] *** kitallis has quit IRC[14:19:59] <kusum> kirilla: BGA : i just need a mentor for this project who is aware of the Haiku internals and give me tips on handling code on Haiku OS[14:20:01] <kirilla> saivert: which I think makes it "interesting" to support writing within the file. We don't want an ugly special-case[14:20:08] <saivert> so the bootloader just does minimal bootstrap of the image and the kernel does the rest[14:20:13] <kusum> rest I am sure with the Help from Agostino i will be able to do it[14:20:39] <kirilla> kusum: there may be substantial change in Haiku which are outside of what Aguostino can help you with[14:21:00] <kirilla> kernel and vfs[14:21:12] <kusum> yeah the changes with Haiku the mentor can guide me :)[14:21:26] <saivert> I just think it's the harddisk driver that needs to be swapped out with a driver that redirects calls to a file on any other filesystem[14:21:35] <kusum> Agostino will tell me on how to approach[14:21:37] <kirilla> kusum: NTFS write support is a whole GSOC (or more) just in itself...![14:21:38] <saivert> at least that is how MS does it[14:21:45] <saivert> with the VHD boot support[14:22:31] <saivert> kirilla: you don't need NTFS write support. just need to be able to memory map the file inside the NTFS filesystem. the image is fixed size and flat[14:22:43] <saivert> but sure you could have full NTFS support so you could do expanding images too[14:22:45] <kusum> we will have an windows setup .exe to do the necessary changes on windows part[14:23:05] <kusum> nsis is the setup creation language generally used on windows[14:23:10] <kusum> Wubi uses the same[14:23:32] <kusum> to create appropriate files , registry changes all are done using NSIS[14:24:43] <kirilla> saivet: I'm not familiar enough with Haiku's or any other vfs, but from what I've picked up, what I think that what you write is not currently possibly in Haiku[14:24:47] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[14:25:08] *** JoeyA has joined #haiku[14:25:10] <kusum> I need not worry about NTFS support at all[14:25:27] <kirilla> kusum: ask on the mailing-list[14:25:42] <saivert> kirilla: yes but didn't you want to boot Haiku from a file?[14:25:42] <kusum> installation process starts when logged in windows[14:25:55] <kusum> and then when we reboot and enter Haiku[14:26:04] <kirilla> educated guess: it's either a special-case hack, or a -lot- of work on the Haiku side[14:26:13] <kusum> then the rest of the installation process is carried on[14:26:32] <kusum> yeah quite a amount of work on Haiku side[14:26:35] <saivert> GRUB has a harddisk emulation feature but that works very slow and it was real mode based (BIOS call) (if I remember correctly)[14:26:46] <kirilla> loopback mounting of images work fine, but rw-mounting an image off a ro- fs is not currently support IIRC[14:27:08] <kusum> partman-auto-loop is used on Ubuntu installer code so that it reads from the file created on windows[14:27:26] <kirilla> once Haiku is up and running it will not use the BIOS calls to rw harddisks[14:27:44] <saivert> and it will still do all rw to the file?[14:29:24] <kusum> yes pretty much direct access[14:29:42] <saivert> yes but isn't all that handled by the GRUB code?[14:29:52] <saivert> since Haiku isn't aware of image loading[14:30:05] <saivert> it just thinks it was booted from a regular partition[14:30:26] <kusum> yes[14:30:30] <kirilla> It depends on what the Haiku VFS allows. Once Haiku is up and running there is no use of the BIOS and there is no use of GRUB code.[14:30:32] <saivert> unless you write support for that and include it in the Haiku kernel[14:30:46] *** User_ has joined #haiku[14:31:47] *** Colin_Finck has joined #haiku[14:32:49] <kirilla> Haiku has some very elaborate partition and filesystem scanning. It is very much aware of the partitions and filesystems. You can -not- just pass it an area on disk, via Grub or whatever- and tell it to restrict its reading/writing to that area (e.g. a file on an existing filesystem, a file which may also be fragmented)..[14:33:36] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[14:34:15] <kirilla> educated guess, it will need work done in Haiku to support this, and this adds work to the GSOC student (e.g. kusum) which can/should not be disregarded[14:35:11] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[14:35:50] <kirilla> kusum: I think the project is awesome and useful, but I think you're underestimating the work[14:37:07] <kirilla> also, I would find it more logical to make a dedicated -repartitioning- Installer (for Haiku, to be run within Windows, with uninstall possibility)[14:38:03] <kusum> wubi is just installed as another software which consumes space of about 15-20 gb as per the user has alloted and which can be installed and uninstalled at ease[14:38:22] <kirilla> but it's still a dual-boot[14:38:29] <kusum> the changing the grub is also very easy to remove one line[14:38:32] <kirilla> it's just shared filesystem space[14:38:45] <kusum> best part it's almost the exact dual boot[14:38:59] <kusum> user makes complete use of his hardware[14:39:20] <kusum> kirilla: could you please check your pm[14:39:38] <kirilla> looking[14:39:49] <kusum> kirilla: thank you[14:39:49] <Auronandace> i prefer a real dual boot, but there are users who will be afraid of partitioning, so this approach may suit them better[14:40:07] <kusum> Auronandace: you are absolutely correct[14:40:33] <kusum> Most of the windows users do not even install linux os because they are afraid of partitioning and loosing the grub[14:40:48] <kusum> they prefer not to take the pain[14:40:58] <Auronandace> the biggest obstacle then will be raising awareness of haiku to general windows users[14:41:05] <kusum> but Wubi is a revolution and a perfect anti-dote for their fear[14:41:22] <kirilla> If they are afraid of partitioning/shrinking using the services of Windows, they should be better off with a Haiku-dedicated virtual machine.. which we could re-brand as Haiku-Box or whatever[14:41:52] <kirilla> virtual machines can run at good, almost-native speed on modern hardware with virtualization support[14:42:25] <kirilla> either of qemu, virtualbox should work fine[14:42:29] <User_> well not really, I certainly notice a huge difference between running in VirtualBox and real hardware on my core i5[14:43:27] <saivert> only because of graphics limitations[14:43:43] <kirilla> User_: I think it'd be good enough, for the purpose of running Haiku as an application on Windows[14:43:57] <kirilla> (or Linux, MacOSX, ..)[14:44:10] <User_> well yes, but it's still a far cry from the 'real thing' in my opinion[14:44:11] <kirilla> surely less work[14:44:15] <User_> indeed[14:44:17] <kirilla> User_: true[14:45:20] <User_> also, if Haiku gets 3d acceleration in the future it will likely not be available in VirtualBox or other vm's since that would require specific guest addons[14:45:40] <kusum> which would be needed to code again[14:45:52] <kusum> overhead!! on haiku[14:46:07] <saivert> yes but I mean the stuff that suffers the most in a virtual machine is graphics[14:46:10] <saivert> not other stuff[14:46:21] <saivert> like plain cpu math operations etc[14:46:47] <User_> yes the gui is decidedly snappier on real hardware, but also things like compiling is faster from my subjective observation[14:47:14] *** jsmaniac has joined #haiku[14:47:25] <User_> btw why so few commits from Axel recently, he is no longer chained to the basement?[14:47:36] <saivert> they improved context switching by making use of the new Intel-V and AMD-V instructions but there are still some context switching related to Disk I/O I would hazard to guess[14:47:42] <saivert> don't really know that much about it[14:48:01] <User_> would make sense[14:48:06] <saivert> and you need the Disk performance when compiling[14:49:44] *** mmlr_mc has joined #haiku[14:50:48] *** jsmaniac has quit IRC[14:51:32] *** jsmaniac has joined #haiku[14:56:53] <kirilla> User_: he's more busy with work lately, from what I've heard[14:57:18] <User_> ahh, real life, always in the way :)[14:57:43] <kirilla> Not that Haiku stands and falls with Axel. (No disrespect intended.)[14:58:02] <kirilla> We have a lot of talented people.[14:58:23] <User_> heh, of course not. It's just that one is used to see him with ~10 commits per day, it's like a disturbance in the force ;)[14:58:42] <kirilla> heh[15:00:17] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[15:00:36] <helf> :D[15:00:37] <helf> http://rainwarrior.thenoos.net/music/moon8.html[15:02:10] *** david3 has joined #haiku[15:04:36] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[15:04:50] *** Atomozero has quit IRC[15:05:44] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[15:07:37] * JonathanThompson poits helf[15:08:22] * JonathanThompson is going to be royally screwed up for "sleep schedule" for a bit...[15:08:37] <JonathanThompson> Haven't slept yet this morning.[15:10:39] *** Barrett has quit IRC[15:15:11] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[15:15:17] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[15:16:00] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku[15:28:49] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[15:29:49] *** oZ] has joined #haiku[15:33:08] *** Barrett has quit IRC[15:33:31] *** JoeyA has quit IRC[15:35:08] *** vision2 has joined #haiku[15:35:14] <vision2> mmu_screen narf[15:35:27] <mmu_screen> plop[15:35:30] <vision2> priv[15:37:43] *** vision2 is now known as Dane_[15:38:25] *** Colin_Finck is now known as Colin_Finck|afk[15:39:41] *** jsmaniac has quit IRC[15:40:49] *** Disreali has quit IRC[15:40:50] *** jsmaniac has joined #haiku[15:41:12] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[15:46:46] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[15:47:45] *** mmlr_mc has quit IRC[16:02:00] *** Animal-X has joined #haiku[16:02:22] *** kirilla has quit IRC[16:06:36] <Dane_> ok you guys, I've got a real stumper and I have GOT to find a solution[16:07:01] <Dane_> Got a motherboard here that works in all other respects, but for some reason, the network cards I usually use don't work right in it[16:07:31] <Dane_> The motherboard will recognize the card initially and I can get it set up and working, but after a reboot, it says "network interface failed to initialize"[16:08:12] <Dane_> If I clear the network card in Network Prefs, and then restart the computer again, it finds it and I can set it back up, but the next time I reboot, I'm back to the same error.[16:08:26] <Dane_> Talking about BeOS[16:08:28] <Dane_> net_server[16:09:12] <Dane_> The card I'm using is a Realtek 8169 which has worked great for me until now. And the other card, the 3-com that has always worked in the past, doesn't even get recognized.[16:09:45] <Dane_> So I strongly suspect something different about the motherboard. I've tried different slots, disabling PNP, disabling onboard LAN, nothing has helped so far.[16:11:37] <Dane_> WHAT would make it work, then not work after a reboot so that the prefs have to be cleared, computer rebooted, and network reset?[16:11:39] *** Ola has joined #haiku[16:12:00] *** Ola is now known as OlaHughson[16:12:33] <NightlyUser> can you make a script that clears the network prefs at shutdown?[16:14:27] *** HaikUbuntu has joined #haiku[16:17:00] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[16:18:47] *** Colin_Finck|afk has quit IRC[16:19:42] <Dane_> BGA Any ideas about the problem above? It's got me completely baffled![16:21:21] <Dane_> NightlyUser Was wondering about something like that. The problem is, when the computer is rebooted, it's as though the computer no longer sees the network card.[16:26:31] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[16:34:46] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[16:36:44] <eml> Dane_: I had problems with my onboard card and a realtek 8139, something regarding IRQ interrupts. I enabled Onboard LAN boot rom and now it works[16:38:35] *** Sloar has joined #haiku[16:45:34] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[16:51:21] <saivert> also some NICs require a turn on signal from the driver[16:51:28] <saivert> but that is unrelated[16:51:29] <saivert> sorry[17:03:17] <CIA-45> andreasf * r685 /haikuports/branches/Jam/ (9 files in 6 dirs): Archive new snapshot, including Mono configure options[17:04:47] *** humdinger has quit IRC[17:16:04] *** e-jones has quit IRC[17:24:33] *** Sloar has quit IRC[17:24:36] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[17:25:59] * GeneralMaximus is freezing[17:26:26] <GeneralMaximus> i can't adjust the temperature on my AC. i can only turn it on or off :|[17:36:28] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[17:44:50] *** _maniac_ has quit IRC[17:45:43] *** leszek has joined #haiku[17:46:09] <leszek> re[17:47:29] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[17:52:45] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[17:54:18] <martinhpedersen> Hi Kokito![17:54:53] <Kokito> good morning martinhpedersen[17:54:57] <Kokito> brb[17:59:03] <NightlyUser> what sort of state is printing support in haiku?[18:00:25] <NightlyUser> does it use cups?[18:03:29] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[18:04:42] *** Ingenu_ has joined #haiku[18:06:55] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[18:06:57] *** Ingenu_ is now known as Ingenu[18:07:36] <Kokito> NightlyUser, Haiku has it's own print kit[18:07:43] <Kokito> which is not CUPS based[18:08:16] <Kokito> admittedly, I don't know if it even works and for what printers :)[18:08:25] <Kokito> how is it going martinhpedersen?[18:10:59] <NightlyUser> thanks[18:11:46] <Kokito> NightlyUser, I used to be able to print to my HP LaserJet 6L printer, although have not tried in almost one year[18:13:18] <NightlyUser> i have a lexus z640[18:13:31] <Kokito> NightlyUser, looks like there is support for Canon LIPS3/4, PCL5/6, PDF and Poscript. at least, that´s what the print kit shows when you try to add a printer[18:13:33] <NightlyUser> managed to get it working in xubuntu[18:14:29] <NightlyUser> had to make an rpm and use alien to install the driver[18:14:42] <martinhpedersen> Kokito, enjoying easter break here:) And you?[18:14:43] <NightlyUser> lexus not very linux friendly[18:15:02] <oZ]> lexmark?[18:15:09] <NightlyUser> thats the one[18:15:11] <NightlyUser> lol[18:15:17] <NightlyUser> lexus is a car[18:15:22] <Kokito> enjoying my morning coffee martinhpedersen :)[18:15:26] <oZ]> With that supported printer list, you aren't going get anything modern + inexpensive to work. ;)[18:15:39] <martinhpedersen> Hehe, nice ;)[18:17:10] <Kokito> oZ], true. there is talk about integrating CUPS into the print kit, so that many more printers can be supported. if I am not mistaken, it is one of GSOC ideas[18:18:00] <Kokito> there is even a project on OSDrawer, thought it's empty :)[18:18:28] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[18:31:06] <oZ]> I do remember seeing that on GSOC.[18:33:30] <Kokito> oZ], IIRC, there were even a couple of guys who claimed to have worked on it (separately), but I don't think any code ever surfaced anywhere from either of them[18:33:58] <oZ]> Blast![18:35:45] *** User_ has quit IRC[18:36:48] <NightlyUser> how posix compliant is haiku then?[18:36:58] * Disreali is idle: BRB[18:37:16] *** DmitryM has quit IRC[18:37:37] <NightlyUser> i know it's moreso than beos was[18:39:24] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[18:41:41] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[18:44:04] *** david3 has quit IRC[18:44:06] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku[18:45:58] *** margiolas has quit IRC[18:47:45] *** Megaf has quit IRC[18:50:18] *** humdinger has quit IRC[18:51:52] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[18:52:34] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[18:53:07] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[18:53:19] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[18:53:23] <kusum> Hello BGA[18:53:47] *** phoudoin has joined #haiku[18:55:53] <Auronandace> kusum: how'd your project proposal go?[18:56:15] <kusum> kirilla spoke about it to me[18:56:28] <kusum> He was pleased it's good project for Haiku[18:56:36] <kirilla> hi[18:56:43] <kusum> one setback can be lack of ntfs support in Haiku[18:56:48] <kusum> kirilla: Hello[18:56:54] <kusum> you just came ?[18:56:55] <kirilla> lack of write support in our NTFS[18:56:57] <kirilla> yep[18:56:59] <kusum> was searching for you[18:57:09] <kirilla> good thing I'm here then ;)[18:57:23] <kusum> lack of write support means we have read support present?[18:57:27] <cpr420> Haiku does have ntfs write i believe[18:57:36] <cpr420> just no one trusts it[18:57:40] <Auronandace> haiku does read ntfs yes[18:57:41] <kirilla> ah :)[18:58:02] <kusum> ohh ok[18:58:16] <kirilla> wast NTFS a gsoc some years back?[18:58:25] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[18:58:32] <kusum> what about ntfs-3g integration in haiku[18:58:39] <kusum> wont that solve the problem ?[18:58:46] <kirilla> isn't that what we have?[18:59:05] <kirilla> I haven't really followed the ntfs development[18:59:32] <kusum> ntfs-3g supports both read and write right ?[18:59:32] *** david3 has joined #haiku[18:59:38] <leszek> yes[18:59:48] <kusum> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS-3G[18:59:58] <kusum> Could someone tell me if I am wrong[19:00:09] <kusum> BeOS is also included[19:00:19] <kirilla> well, degree of integration is also a factor in whether something works fully[19:00:23] *** fly-away has quit IRC[19:01:04] <Kokito> I think ntfs-3g is included in Haiku[19:01:07] <kusum> does Haiku use its own grub module or gnu grub ?[19:01:20] <kirilla> kusum: no grub[19:01:23] <Kokito> haiku does not use grub[19:01:30] <Auronandace> it has it's own bootloader[19:01:34] <Auronandace> bootman[19:01:41] <Kokito> it has its own boot manager & menu[19:01:48] <Auronandace> you need to chainload it from grub[19:01:49] <kusum> ohh[19:02:21] <kusum> Why dint haiku prefer to integrate Grub into Haiku ?[19:02:48] <Kokito> because bootman is better :)[19:02:48] <kirilla> kusum: our bootman is a simple MBR-contained boot menu which chainloads a loader (any loader, any system.. even grub) off the boot record of a partition[19:03:01] <kusum> NTFS-3G supports all operations for writing files: files of any size can be created, modified, renamed, moved, or deleted on NTFS partitions[19:03:05] <Auronandace> the installer has instruction on how to add it to grub[19:03:11] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[19:03:43] <kirilla> kusum: you can load grub from bootman, if grub is installed not on the MBR but on the partition boot record of you Linux partition[19:04:07] <kirilla> kusum: you can also chainload Haiku from grub, if grub is your preference[19:04:25] <kusum> i guess then my problem is solved , kirilla[19:04:30] <kusum> what say ?[19:04:57] <leszek> kusum, you want a menu entry for haiku in grub ?[19:05:09] <kusum> I just need to figure out way to chainload the grub to bootman[19:05:25] <kusum> and include all OS list[19:05:29] <leszek> ?[19:05:38] <leszek> sry I don't get it[19:05:43] <kirilla> grub can load Haiku, yes, but bootman is then not part of the chain, as bootman is purely an MBR boot record[19:05:44] <kusum> leszek: Hello[19:05:56] <Auronandace> he wants to add haiku to grub[19:06:08] <Auronandace> then use grub to chainload bootman[19:06:11] <leszek> ah so my first guess was right[19:06:11] <Kokito> kusum, if you want to add Haiku to GRUB2, try this: http://haikuzone.net/tips/installation/adding-haiku-grub2-ubuntu-9.10[19:06:43] <kusum> is Haiku irc chat logged?[19:07:07] <Kokito> yes[19:07:32] <kirilla> kusum: you'd want to load the first stage Haiku boot loader, which lives at the partition boot record of the Haiku partition. This would have to work differently for your Wubi case, where there is no Haiku partition[19:08:20] <kirilla> kusum: 1) understand how Grub chainloads Haiku 2) figure out how to change this to fit Haiku-in-a-file-on-NTFS[19:09:03] <kirilla> kusum: I suggest reading the guides on how to install Haiku, and actually intalling Haiku on real hardware, adding an entry for grub to load it. This will help you understand[19:10:57] *** l3thal_ has joined #haiku[19:11:01] *** kusum has quit IRC[19:13:19] <kirilla> kusum: I could be wrong, but I think what you want to do is make a special version of Haiku's first stage bootloader (not bootman but the step after it) which is then loaded by grub. This loader would live as a file in the NTFS filesystem.[19:17:57] <kirilla> kusum: this is roughly how Haiku bootup happens: [bootman or Grub gets booted off the MBR of your disk] -> [loads a partition's boot record] -> [loads file haiku_loader on this BFS partition] -> [loads the Haiku kernel][19:18:24] <Auronandace> he's gone[19:18:40] <kirilla> grumble[19:18:50] *** jmayfield has quit IRC[19:19:06] <Auronandace> informative nonetheless[19:19:19] <kirilla> I hope I got it right[19:20:12] <kirilla> He wants to propose a GSoC project that is similar to Wubi. Installing Haiku to a file on an NTFS partition.[19:20:56] *** oZ] has quit IRC[19:21:52] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[19:22:39] <leszek> hmm... that brings me to a interesting idea, booting haiku from an bfs image stored on a ext4/ext3/jfs or whatsoever partition[19:23:19] <leszek> something similiar like the beos dos loader, back in the times of beos r5[19:23:29] <leszek> but for linux[19:23:39] <kirilla> there are two issues here, 1) loading Haiku off NTFS using grub might not work exactly as Linux. Haiku is different. 2) running Haiku off a filesystem-in-a-file on top of a NTFS filesystem. I have my doubts that this is possible currenlty.[19:24:31] <mmu_screen> leszek: I started writing a driver for IMAGE.BE hacks but it's not finished[19:24:40] <leszek> nice ;)[19:24:44] <kirilla> while we support filesystem images and mounting these, boot off one is likely a bit more involved[19:25:42] <leszek> kirilla, yeah for this we need haiku_loader and kernel + driver for reading the drives host (like FAT32 or NTFS) outside the image so it can be read[19:26:44] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[19:26:57] *** oZ] has joined #haiku[19:28:12] <kirilla> I suppose we would need solid NTFS write support for loopback(?) mounting an image read/write on top of it, to be feasible. I am right, mmu_screen?[19:28:35] <kirilla> s/I am right/Am I right[19:29:43] <leszek> hmm... if haiku has ntfs-3g support then we have solid NTFS write support. But I really don't much about it, perhaps its an outdated version[19:29:57] <leszek> +know[19:31:39] *** jmayfield has joined #haiku[19:33:25] <kirilla> http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/ntfs?order=date&desc=1[19:33:43] <kirilla> "Update NTFS-3g Library to stable 2009.4.4 version..."[19:34:19] <kirilla> http://dev.haiku-os.org/changeset/30944/haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/ntfs/settings[19:34:26] <kirilla> looks like we have write support[19:35:05] <leszek> :)[19:35:10] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[19:35:36] <leszek> kirilla, so we have a stable version[19:35:38] <leszek> :)[19:35:49] <kirilla> that's good[19:36:05] <leszek> bbl[19:36:09] *** leszek has quit IRC[19:36:15] <kirilla> cool, we're mentioned: http://www.tuxera.com/community/ntfs-3g-download/[19:36:59] <kirilla> time for an update maybe?: "The latest stable version is ntfs-3g-2010.3.6, released on March 7, 2010." :)[19:38:00] <mmadia> dev.haiku-os.org/newticket :P[19:38:39] <kirilla> mmadia: already there :)[19:39:10] *** Kroki has joined #haiku[19:39:44] <mmu_screen> hmm damn I get an SQL error when registering BG[19:40:15] <mmadia> In june, our copy was updated to version 2009.4.4[19:41:00] <mmu_screen> hmm, seems putting (0) in the tel number fails[19:41:00] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[19:41:12] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku[19:42:00] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[19:44:31] <Lelldorin1> hi all[19:46:24] <kirilla> bbl[19:46:26] *** kirilla has quit IRC[19:52:46] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[19:56:43] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[20:01:54] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[20:05:56] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[20:16:56] *** Styrbjorn has quit IRC[20:18:22] *** Styrbjorn has joined #haiku[20:18:25] *** duv has joined #haiku[20:20:50] <CIA-45> korli * r36018 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/midi/PortDrivers.cpp: Patch from Pete Goodeve to add time data to incoming MIDI (#5664)[20:23:52] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[20:24:35] *** wildur has joined #haiku[20:27:47] *** Advant_ has joined #haiku[20:28:55] *** Advant- has quit IRC[20:31:14] *** kusum has joined #haiku[20:31:45] <CIA-45> korli * r36019 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/midi/MidiPort.cpp: Patch from Pete Goodeve: add MidiPortGlue to have old midikit endpoints registered in new midikit (#5625).[20:36:43] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[20:36:55] <kusum> Kokito: Hello[20:36:59] <kusum> Auronandace: Hello[20:37:39] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[20:39:31] <kusum> Hello anyone here[20:39:37] <kusum> are the irc chats logged?[20:40:03] <AlienSoldier> yep[20:40:16] <kusum> could you give me the links[20:40:31] <kusum> i got d/c due to net connection[20:40:36] <kusum> want to check the messages[20:40:48] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[20:41:12] <AlienSoldier> kusum http://echelog.matzon.dk/logs/browse/haiku/1270072800[20:42:16] <kusum> AlienSoldier: thanks a lot[20:42:31] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[20:45:49] <kusum> AlienSoldier: do you know kirilla ?[20:46:44] <AlienSoldier> yes[20:47:15] <AlienSoldier> in a IRC way[20:47:58] <kusum> ohh ok[20:48:05] <kusum> do you know his email id ?[20:51:01] <AlienSoldier> no[20:51:29] <AlienSoldier> you can get him here at least once a day lately[20:52:59] *** Micc has joined #haiku[20:57:22] *** HaikUbuntu has quit IRC[20:57:57] *** shadowmaster is now known as shadowman[20:58:22] <CIA-45> korli * r36020 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/packageinstaller/ (9 files): Applied patch by sil2100 that enables handling of script files (bug #3762)[20:59:28] *** margiolas has joined #haiku[21:01:05] *** BGA has quit IRC[21:01:18] *** jsmaniac has quit IRC[21:05:57] *** duv has quit IRC[21:09:25] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[21:17:36] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[21:21:29] *** david3 has quit IRC[21:25:18] *** Advant_ is now known as Advant[21:30:43] *** shadowman is now known as shadowmaster[21:31:58] *** The123king has quit IRC[21:33:20] *** The123king has joined #haiku[21:38:31] *** tgunr has joined #haiku[21:39:10] <kusum> mmadia: Hello Sir[21:39:18] <kusum> mmu_screen: Hello Sir[21:39:52] *** tgunr has joined #haiku[21:41:04] *** mmadia has quit IRC[21:41:14] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[21:44:11] <mmadia> kusum , you pinged earlier?[21:44:38] <kusum> mmadia: yes Sir[21:44:59] <kusum> I believe you are the GSOC admin for Haiku[21:45:10] <kusum> just needed your opinion on an idea[21:46:08] <kusum> mmadia: Are you free now ?[21:46:16] <mmadia> sure.[21:46:38] <mmadia> you can mention it here, just know that mailing either the [haiku] or [haiku-development] mailing list would give the mentors a chance to provide additional feedback too.[21:47:02] <kusum> Having Windows based installer like Wubi for Haiku[21:48:32] <mmadia> sounds neat.[21:48:51] <kusum> I discussed this idea with bga , kirilla , Aurodance this afternoon[21:49:07] <kusum> we thought that ntfs support was not there[21:49:18] <kusum> but later realised ntfs-3g was present[21:49:23] <martinhpedersen> Sounds interesting:)[21:49:34] <kusum> so complete read-write support is present[21:49:48] <kusum> also the bootman is flexible enough to chainload grub[21:49:52] <kusum> which is awesome[21:50:27] <kusum> Advatages is : A lot more users will defenitely give Haiku a install[21:50:45] <kusum> dual boot functionality without partiotion[21:50:48] <martinhpedersen> What about the BeFS attributes then?[21:50:51] <kusum> problems[21:51:36] <oZ]> Wubi creates an ext disk image on the ntfs partition, doesn't it? So if that architecture is mirrored, you'd still boot into a BeFS partition.[21:51:50] <CIA-45> korli * r36021 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/packageinstaller/ (PackageInstall.cpp PackageInstall.h): forgot these files as part of the previous commit[21:52:03] <martinhpedersen> I see:) That would be awsome![21:52:28] <kusum> martinhpedersen: what are BeFS attributes?[21:53:03] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[21:53:29] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[21:54:04] <martinhpedersen> "(metadata) with indexing and querying characteristics to provide functionality similar to that of a relational database." From wikipedia:)[21:54:47] *** The123king has quit IRC[21:55:28] <martinhpedersen> If Wubi creates a disk image, we could use it with vmware also... so the user isn't forced to reboot for quick tasks:)[21:55:35] <kusum> I have got in touch with Agostino and Collin watson the Authors of Wubi[21:55:57] <kusum> who are ready to guide me whenever necessary as far as approach is concerned[21:56:06] <martinhpedersen> :D[21:56:16] <kusum> I have a rough outline prepared as well[21:56:34] <mmadia> kusum : you should certainly send a mail to one of haiku's mailing lists.[21:56:48] <kusum> the exact specifications for each part will take a little more time[21:57:06] <mmadia> most of the developers do not regularly follow irc[21:57:27] <kusum> mmadia: Will haiku be interested in having a Wubi like installer ?[21:57:50] <kusum> mmadia: I have been a succesful GSOC 2009 student :)[21:57:56] <mmadia> possibly[21:57:56] <kusum> under openSUSE[21:58:00] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku[21:58:46] <kusum> I'll get my rough outline to some shape and then send a mail to haiku developers list[21:58:58] *** Geoz has quit IRC[21:59:22] <mmadia> !countdown[21:59:43] <mmadia> heh, wrong channel. <socinfo> "countdown" is The time left for submitting a student project proposal: http://tinyurl.com/gsoc2010-student-deadline[22:01:16] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[22:01:57] <kusum> that's a nightmare for students especially me :)[22:04:07] <CyberKitsune> I just did a Topica search on haiku[22:05:20] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[22:06:06] *** Geoz has joined #haiku[22:09:12] *** oco has joined #haiku[22:12:16] *** PasNox has quit IRC[22:15:01] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[22:16:01] <Ingenu> plop[22:16:40] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[22:16:56] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[22:26:05] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[22:27:47] *** margiolas has quit IRC[22:27:48] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[22:27:57] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[22:27:59] *** margiolas has joined #haiku[22:31:03] *** leszek has joined #haiku[22:31:15] *** phoudoin has quit IRC[22:31:30] <leszek> re[22:31:55] *** raichoo has quit IRC[22:32:36] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku[22:32:37] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[22:32:43] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku[22:33:05] <kirilla> hi[22:33:50] <kusum> kirilla: Hello[22:33:59] <kusum> I hope i am not disturbing[22:34:01] <kirilla> hi![22:34:10] <kirilla> no no[22:34:28] <kirilla> just looking at some code[22:34:44] <kusum> Good news that ntfs support is there for Haiku[22:34:57] <kusum> i read the irc log[22:35:01] <leszek> :)[22:35:15] <kirilla> kusum: if you've replied to my reply, then I haven't read it yet.[22:35:40] *** CK|Haiku has joined #haiku[22:35:54] <kusum> kirilla: I havent replied yet to that mail[22:36:02] <kirilla> ah, oki[22:36:28] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[22:37:19] <kirilla> kusum: I don't think I can help much more on the topic without digging into Haiku and/or Wubi source[22:37:58] <leszek> wubi wouldn't be helpful here except for the windows bootloader part[22:38:14] <kirilla> kusum: I can help with general Haiku installation and project, website, resource knowledge though[22:38:58] <kirilla> leszek: the windows-side installer GUI might possibly be helpful, I don't know[22:38:59] <kusum> wubi is only to deal with window side modifications[22:39:06] <kusum> not much more trivial[22:39:21] <kusum> Wubi is open source too[22:39:22] <kusum> :)[22:39:28] <kirilla> leszek: creating the file, install/uninstall prepping[22:39:48] <kusum> but the auto-partman-loop code is key to the project[22:40:04] <CK|Haiku> Wubi just makes a virtual disk and has GRUB mount the windows disk for the vdisk however[22:40:09] <kirilla> please elaborate on that one, kusum[22:40:12] <kusum> which is the loopback system on ubuntu side[22:40:41] <kusum> on auto-partman-loop or wubi ?[22:40:54] <kirilla> the auto-partman-loop[22:41:18] <kirilla> and how it could be ported or be usable from Haiku[22:41:23] <kirilla> I don't understand that part[22:41:34] <kusum> portability might or might not be possible[22:41:40] *** chronoz has joined #haiku[22:41:53] <kusum> but we can use the wubi frontend and backend functionality well[22:42:38] <kirilla> a Linux loopback filesystem (not sure I understand that right) is likely not portable to Haiku[22:42:57] <kusum> yes[22:43:25] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[22:43:43] <Begasus> evening peeps[22:43:44] <kusum> it's got to be overwritten to Haiku specific[22:43:52] <kirilla> hi Begasus[22:44:23] <kusum> it's a loopback code to run the files stored in the image file in ntfs filesystem[22:44:33] <Begasus> hi kirilla[22:45:13] <kusum> ubuntu stores the OS image in root.disk file on windows which auto-partman-loop runs is the rough idea[22:47:16] *** david3 has joined #haiku[22:47:49] *** razor07 has joined #haiku[22:49:32] *** margiolas has quit IRC[22:50:06] <kirilla> I'm reading up on wubi..[22:54:13] <leszek> is_computer_on_fire() xD what a system call :P[22:54:18] <leszek> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5666[22:54:40] <kirilla> Haiku has a property which makes it less difficult to install for newbies: it only needs/expects a single partition[22:54:54] <kirilla> unlike Linux which traditionally has wanted at least two[22:54:58] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[22:55:11] <mmadia> did you see the screenshot, leszek?[22:55:21] <leszek> mmadia, yes ;9[22:55:30] <kirilla> I wonder who slipped that in :))[22:55:32] <leszek> a nice easter egg :)[22:56:05] * mmadia points to the calendar[22:56:25] <kirilla> doh :)[22:56:53] <kirilla> hillarious anyway[22:57:08] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[22:57:17] <leszek> heh[22:57:18] <leszek> e[22:58:15] <CK|Haiku> what does is_computer_on_fire() do?[22:59:01] *** Animal-X has quit IRC[22:59:19] <leszek> sets your computer on fire before the FBI storms your room :P[22:59:34] <CK|Haiku> XD[23:02:02] *** Kroki has quit IRC[23:02:06] <Ingenu> tells you whether your computer is on fire[23:02:30] <CK|Haiku> How does it know?[23:02:34] <Ingenu> a joke ;) always returns false[23:02:38] <CK|Haiku> ah[23:02:47] <CK|Haiku> lol[23:03:01] <Begasus> doesn't inform you when it actualy happens ;)[23:03:01] <Ingenu> yes they put jpkes in the API otself ^^[23:03:05] <Ingenu> itself*[23:04:33] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[23:07:33] <Begasus> hmm isn't there a gcc4 package for libtool in the optional packages?[23:11:12] <Kokito> SuperHappyDevHouse 37 is on! https://superhappydevhouse.org/Letter37[23:19:39] *** oZ] has quit IRC[23:27:19] <leszek> n8[23:27:23] *** leszek has quit IRC[23:37:23] *** Phlox has joined #haiku[23:37:48] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[23:39:53] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[23:42:02] *** jmayfield has quit IRC[23:45:14] *** wildur has quit IRC[23:45:53] *** kusum has quit IRC[23:46:26] *** kusum1 has joined #haiku[23:51:03] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[23:51:31] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[23:51:59] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[23:58:18] *** jmayfield has joined #haiku[23:58:52] *** Ingenu has quit 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