[00:00:14] <mischi> how long does building haiku take on a core2duo 2GHz ?
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[00:01:08] <luroh> i'd guess about 20 minutes or so, not counting build tools
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[00:02:37] <mischi> ok
[00:02:40] <mischi> thanks.
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[00:17:27] * JonathanThompson curses Apple with "Unknown error" reports upon renewing provisioning profile
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[00:23:49] <mischi> ok, haiku seems to have build :-)
[00:24:16] <mischi> i cannot find a libroot.so, only this:   ./haiku/generated/objects/darwin/lib/libroot_build.so
[00:24:55] <mischi> is this ok to rename to libroot.so and use for crosslinking?
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[00:26:54] <OmniMancer> ask mmadia
[00:26:58] <Advant> Is there a chmod command to dump the numerical value of the permissinos, or show it?
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[00:27:53] <mischi> would it be the same as in linux/bsd ?
[00:28:19] <OmniMancer> Advant: why don't you convert a string of w's r's and x's into and octal number yourself?
[00:28:39] <JonathanThompson> OmniMancer: thinking is highly overrated :p
[00:28:45] <Advant> OmniMancer: Don'y know the encoding for it
[00:28:54] <JonathanThompson> Seems too much like work ;)
[00:29:27] <mischi> read is 4, write is 2, execute is 1
[00:29:50] <OmniMancer> effectively the string directly maps to a binary number
[00:29:58] <OmniMancer> you then convert to octal :P
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[00:31:16] <Advant> ah simple enough I think
[00:31:33] <JonathanThompson> You put your MSB in, you put your MSB out, you put your MSB in, and you toggle it all about: you do the hokey pokey and you rotate yourself around: that's what it's all a-bit!
[00:32:00] <Advant> thanks guys
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[00:36:47] <DraX> Advant:
[00:36:47] <DraX> [16:42] alexbl@fortitudo: ~/metaweb/acredav/mwlog> stat -f "%Op" __init__.py
[00:36:48] <DraX> 100644
[00:36:48] <DraX>
[00:37:36] <Advant> ?
[00:37:54] <DraX> stat -f "%Op" file
[00:37:57] <DraX> returns the octal of the mode
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[00:39:42] <DraX> there are these awesome things, they're called manpages
[00:39:59] <OmniMancer> which don't exist on haiku :P
[00:40:19] <CIA-45> mmu_man * r35965 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/ports/pc_serial/ (Driver.cpp Driver.h SerialDevice.cpp SerialDevice.h):
[00:40:19] <CIA-45> Update copyrights. Mention TuneTracker Systems as a sponsor.
[00:40:19] <CIA-45> Add several ways to restrict UART probing when matching devices:
[00:40:20] <CIA-45> Use those to match 2 specific NetMos chips, and avoid screwing up when input_server tries to access UARTs at boggus ranges.
[00:40:35] <DraX> yes which is kind of offensive :/
[00:40:49] <Advant> DraX: thanks!
[00:41:17] <Advant> you would think ls could do it
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[00:43:32] <CIA-45> mmu_man * r35966 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/ports/pc_serial/Driver.h: Restore DEVICE_COUNT which was set to 2 for testing. We can do better :)
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[00:57:58] <[Evan]> I'm a GSoC student deciding whether to apply to Haiku. How important are the API language bindings relative to the other Haiku GSoC projects ideas?
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[01:13:56] <DraX> weee
[01:14:12] <DraX> totally know why some messages don't get through
[01:14:22] <DraX> imcomm doesn't support messages on the rendevous channel
[01:16:10] <OmniMancer> :(
[01:16:56] <DraX> no big deal
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[01:36:46] <DraX> god this protocol is awful
[01:37:08] <JonathanThompson> How awful is it?
[01:37:18] <DraX> in some perverse desire to retain backwards compatability there are like 5 ways to send/receive messages
[01:37:22] <JonathanThompson> So ful of aw that it makes you tilt?
[01:37:41] <DraX> i think i'm only exagerating by one
[01:37:50] <JonathanThompson> There's 6?
[01:37:58] <DraX> 4
[01:40:54] <DraX> i think there are three ways to do buddy icons
[01:41:38] <OmniMancer> I think AIM should be deprecated :P
[01:42:05] <OmniMancer> AOL should turn off the master server create a new system and migrate the accounts
[01:42:10] <OmniMancer> or even better use jabber :P
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[01:52:11] <jarz> Ok, I'm a noob and can't figure out the appropriate jam syntax to create a cd
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[01:54:37] <aldeck> jarz: jam @nightly-cd
[01:54:47] <aldeck> or @alpha-cd
[01:55:19] <aldeck> those build profiles are defined in build/jam/ReleaseBuildProfiles
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[01:55:54] <jarz> ah, at the end I get the line "...skipped haiku-alpha.iso for lack of <HaikuImage>haiku.image-copy-files..."
[01:56:09] <aldeck> you can also create your profiles inspired by those in your UserBuildConfig
[01:57:57] <aldeck> jarz: this error doesn't tell much, use jam with the -q option so that it quits on first error and paste the full output in pastebin so we can have a look
[01:58:30] <aldeck> jarz: you're following a guide in particular?
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[01:59:08] <jarz> attempting to go through the guide at http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/
[01:59:14] <aldeck> ok
[02:02:12] <jarz> ah, i see whats up
[02:02:26] <jarz> "failed C++ generated/objects/haiku/x86/release/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/pci/pci.o"
[02:04:49] <jarz> http://paste.dtella.org/1638
[02:04:59] <aldeck> ok looking
[02:06:28] <jarz> thanks for your help aldeck
[02:06:34] <aldeck> building on a 64bit linux?
[02:07:09] <aldeck> np jarz :)
[02:07:40] <jarz> Linux sol 2.6.31-19-generic #56-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 28 01:26:53 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
[02:07:57] <jarz> only 32 bits
[02:08:10] <aldeck> k
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[02:08:29] <aldeck> what did you use/type for configure
[02:08:57] <jarz> for buildutils?
[02:09:05] <aldeck> yep
[02:09:14] <jarz> ./configure --build-cross-tools ../buildtools
[02:09:37] <aldeck> ok
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[02:13:06] <aldeck> jarz: i've no idea what's going on. Must be something on your side, broken builds happen, but the build bot would've complained already
[02:13:14] <jarz> ok
[02:19:03] <aldeck> i dunno maybe you've got some leftover from a previous failed/misconfigured build. try removing generated/objects, and jam again
[02:20:11] <mmadia> yeah, BOM's almost done building 35966 w/o errors.
[02:20:34] * aldeck bips jarz ^
[02:20:42] <aldeck> ok thanks mmadia
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[02:21:01] <jarz> yeah, i'm removing the old
[02:21:11] <jarz> just did an svn update to the latest
[02:22:06] * JonathanThompson thinks aldeck is emulating him in another language
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[02:22:30] <aldeck> jarz: sorry you might have been confused by the guides on the site, those are a mess atm :)
[02:23:07] * aldeck don't want to be JonathanThompsonized !
[02:23:07] <jarz> Yes, I've noticed ;)
[02:23:25] <jarz> Yet another reason I should take a technical writing course before graduating.
[02:24:08] * JonathanThompson JonathanThompsonizes aldeck after his own image, but warped, leaving aldeck superwarped
[02:24:22] <aldeck> oh noes :)
[02:25:11] * aldeck encrypts JonathanThompson and eats the key
[02:25:33] * JonathanThompson notes nobody will ever be able to decipher aldeck correctly again once he gets mixed up
[02:25:43] <jarz> wow, it died horribly this time within interfacekit
[02:26:17] <aldeck> jarz: paste it, post it
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[02:26:39] <jarz> does #haiku have a preferred pastebin?
[02:27:00] <aldeck> i think we got haiku.pastebin.org
[02:27:13] <aldeck> doesn't matter much really
[02:27:25] <JonathanThompson> And if you don't use that, use what you will: the license means any code you post is meaningless.
[02:27:32] <jarz> http://haiku.pastebin.com/7PiBeFmd
[02:27:35] <JonathanThompson> That is, for worry.
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[02:28:26] <aldeck> jarz: hmm, that code has been touched today
[02:28:37] <mmadia> http://dev.haiku-os.org/changeset/35958
[02:29:32] <mmadia> what filesystem are you building on, jarz?
[02:29:42] <jarz> ext2
[02:30:02] <mmadia> did you use "--use-xattr" ?
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[02:30:36] <mmadia> and what's the output of  `jam -v` ?
[02:30:56] <jarz> I didn't use xattr, didn't realize the issue
[02:31:13] <jarz> Jam 2.5-haiku-20090626. OS=LINUX. Copyright 1993-2002 Christopher Seiwald.
[02:31:25] <mmadia> well, that's good.  --use-xattr cannot be used with ext2.
[02:31:39] * mmadia out of idesa
[02:31:41] <aldeck> jarz; dunno, you could try building an older rev with: svn up -r35957
[02:32:09] <aldeck> though i wonder why the BOm (the buildbot) didn't complain
[02:33:16] <jarz> what FS would you all recommend? reiser3?
[02:33:19] <mmadia> i'm pretty sure it built that or 35959.
[02:34:10] <aldeck> jarz: never had any problem with ext3 or ext4
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[02:35:17] <jarz> do you have xattr enabled through /etc/fstab then?
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[02:37:10] <aldeck> nope but rarely have an issue, i sometimes need to delete the generated/attributes folder
[02:37:34] <jarz> ok
[02:38:05] <jarz> i'm using an external disk for all of this since my laptop's disk is getting full
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[02:44:02] <aldeck> jarz: looking at the code and your error, it seems you still have the old revision of AffineTransform.cpp
[02:44:07] <jarz> ah
[02:44:17] <aldeck> sure the svn up went well?
[02:44:27] <jarz> it appeared to...
[02:44:51] <aldeck> that fTranformMatrix on line 15 has been removed
[02:45:19] <jarz> i found some free space on another partition, so i'm fetching sources now and will attempt to build everything in a little bit
[02:46:00] <aldeck> k
[02:49:57] <jarz> ls
[02:52:40] <jarz> xchat != bash...
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[02:53:11] <jarz> apparently my svn up didn't get all of the files last time
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[04:28:16] <CIA-45> scottmc * r678 /haikuports/trunk/net-misc/openssh/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Modified the pathnames.h file to put use haiku specific directories, some of these may be wrong, so more changes probably to come
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[05:35:46] <rohit123> How to compile haiku from use and use the new compiled kernel for booting?
[05:36:11] <rohit123> how to compile haiku from source and use the new compiled kernel for booting?
[05:36:40] <mmadia> are you building from Haiku or another OS?
[05:38:34] <mmadia> from within your generated folder, `jam -q kernel` will rebuild the kernel.
[05:38:56] <rohit123> I am building from haiku
[05:39:02] <rohit123> running in under Virtual Box
[05:39:48] <mmadia> check build/jam/UserBuildConfig.ReadMe  too, it'll tell you how to update the kernel.
[05:40:04] <mmadia> eg, compile it and copy it to the partition in one pass.
[05:40:10] <rohit123> Thank you
[05:40:30] <mmadia> though, if you try to replace your running kernel, things may go 'boom'
[05:40:41] <OmniMancer> yay for boom!
[05:41:49] <mmadia> ... i think there's a ticket enhancement to make haiku go "boom shakalaka" instead :P
[05:42:26] <OmniMancer> yay
[05:43:15] <rohit123> Why a C++ network stack framework is desired when curl is already present in Haiku?
[05:43:30] <DraX> the c++ network stack framework might be written with curl
[05:43:34] <DraX> it's just about providing a nice API for it
[05:44:17] <mmadia> also, stippi would have a better answer.
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[06:19:07] <OmniMancer> DraX: how goes your hacking?
[06:24:45] <DraX> drinking instead \o/
[06:27:26] <OmniMancer> ya
[06:27:52] <OmniMancer> yay
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[07:09:49] <DHowett> I have a strange feeling that the arm port is… defunct?
[07:10:33] <DHowett> Ah, nevermind, i was building it wrong
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[07:11:06] <DraX> as far as i know it basically doesn't work
[07:11:16] <Koki_> good evening folks
[07:11:22] <DraX> so it's probably only interesting if you intend to work on it
[07:12:35] <DHowett> I do intend to do so
[07:12:36] <DHowett> :P
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[07:32:11] <DHowett> wow, THAT was certainly interesting. Might have been a coincidence, but the first time i loaded the second-stage bootloader (netbsd) on this overo, my bluetooth mouse went insane
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[07:41:25] <DHowett> Hmm, uploading a 1.6MB file using the Kermit protocol with approximately one error per successful packet is.. slow? :P
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[07:47:22] <CIA-45> scottmc * r679 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/taglib/ (taglib.OptionalPackageDescription taglib-1.6.1.bep): Initial .bep file for taglib-1.6.1
[07:47:30] <Koki_> kermit protocol... using a 300 baud modem DHowett? :P
[07:48:19] <DHowett> Koki_: Felt like it :P
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[07:52:01] <Begasus> moin
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[07:54:53] <Koki_> DHowett: have not heard about the kermit protocol in like 2 decades :P
[07:57:38] <DHowett> Koki_: it's the quickest way I can upload stuff to boot on this ARM board, save swapping microSD cards, waiting for it to mount, etc., etc.
[07:57:40] <DHowett> Koki_: :D
[08:01:44] <Koki_> DHowett: working on an ARM port?
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[08:03:06] <DHowett> Koki_: trying
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[08:05:27] <Koki_> cool DHowett :)
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[08:07:56] <DHowett> but at 8kcps, I don't know if I can bear the wait :P
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[08:12:32] <OmniMancer> will shrinking a ntfs partition copy any files at the end away from the end or is there some tool that will properly compact it?
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[08:13:30] <DHowett> OmniMancer: I think ntfsresize -will- do it but i would trust the windows defragmenter more
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[08:19:32] <OmniMancer> I am defragmenting it first anyway
[08:19:42] <OmniMancer> not sure if I'm going to do it though
[08:21:17] <OmniMancer> I have too much stuff :P
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[08:26:55] <stargater> moin
[08:27:14] <Begasus> moin
[08:27:36] <stargater> ah hi begasus
[08:27:56] <stargater> Begasus,  i have sound now on my laptop with haiku
[08:28:05] <stargater> and the best is, i can record :-)
[08:28:21] <stargater> http://www.team-maui.org/dir/Haiku/SoundRecorder/SoundRecorder.png
[08:28:24] <Begasus> nice stargater  ;)
[08:28:56] <stargater> jep :-)
[08:30:59] <stargater> i have fun, my son and i play soundrecord :-)
[08:31:17] <stargater> the iPhone havs this too
[08:31:43] <stargater> so i am luky i need no iPhone, because i have haiku
[08:37:09] <OmniMancer> :P
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[08:51:32] <CIA-45> laplace * r35967 /haiku/trunk/data/catalogs/apps/bootman/fi.catkeys:
[08:51:32] <CIA-45> Added Finnish translation for bootman. Thank you Karvjorm.
[08:51:32] <CIA-45> Closes ticket #5642.
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[09:16:26] <eml> Yay! Finally got around to getting a working CD-rom for my old PC. Debian installed, now it's Haiku's turn! :)
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[09:29:01] <OmniMancer> I am trying to free space for a haiku partition :D
[09:29:14] <OmniMancer> is the windows bootloader in its own partition?
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[09:31:03] <Auronandace> i assume so
[09:31:15] <Auronandace> cos grub can chainload it
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[09:35:48] <OmniMancer> hmmm
[09:36:10] <OmniMancer> just want to know if I need to do anything weird before I put bootman in the MBR if I ever get to it :P
[09:37:12] <Auronandace> can bootman chainload other bootloaders then?
[09:38:56] <Auronandace> i've only ever used bootman in a vm on a disk dedicated to haiku, so i don't know what else it can boot
[09:39:53] <ragcsee> yep, bootman chainloads grub fine here
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[09:40:54] <Auronandace> i might try an experiment in virtualbox, see if it detects reactos
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[10:15:28] <CIA-45> laplace * r35968 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp:
[10:15:28] <CIA-45> Moved translators into a table. Avoids code duplication and should make
[10:15:28] <CIA-45> the implementation of the open TODO (sort languages alphabetically using
[10:15:28] <CIA-45> collators) easy.
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[10:27:12] <eml> Haiku installing :-)
[10:28:16] <OmniMancer> yay
[10:34:27] <OmniMancer> DraX: still up?
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[10:39:52] <rohit123> While compiling haiku from source I get the following errors >>> No such file of directory and Don't know how to make and *.cpp files. I am compiling in Virtual Box which is running Haiku
[10:40:21] <rohit123> I did the ./configure first
[10:40:27] <rohit123> running jam gives me these errors
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[11:06:12] <CIA-45> laplace * r35969 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp: Sort languages alphabetically using collators.
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[11:12:54] <mmu_screen> is >>> part of it ?
[11:13:01] <mmu_screen> maybe you have a conflicted file ?
[11:13:02] <mmu_screen> svn stat
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[11:25:23] <eml> Argh, no network :(
[11:26:33] <eml> Seems like haiku doesn't recognize the built-on(in,whatever) network card
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[11:33:19] <eml> Is there a command like dmesg on linux?
[11:35:21] <newbie_haiku> Applications> Devices.
[11:36:40] <eml> Not seeing it
[11:38:02] <newbie_haiku> ifconfig in Terminal. What is network card?
[11:40:01] <eml> That's the problem, ifconfig doesn't show anything else than loopback
[11:41:12] <newbie_haiku> Which chip on card or which motherboard?
[11:41:52] * eml tries to remember what he bought 8 years ago
[11:41:58] <eml> I think I have the box it came in somewhere, brb
[11:42:32] <eml> Asus A7V8X I believe
[11:43:19] <eml> BroadCom 10/100 LAN
[11:43:22] <eml> :p
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[11:48:17] <luroh> eml: have a look in /var/log/syslog for the device id
[11:48:45] <luroh> e.g. do a search for BCM
[11:49:30] <newbie_haiku> Broadcom BCM5702CKFB4
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[11:53:29] <newbie_haiku> a Haiku has a driver broadcom570x. Which revision Haiku?
[11:54:23] <eml> Looks like it does recognize the chip
[11:55:16] <eml> There's a vm_page_fault regarding w->Network or something :p
[11:59:36] <OmniMancer> it is better to have intel it works :D
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[12:06:24] <eml> =)
[12:06:57] <vooshy> kirilla: hi
[12:07:09] <kirilla> hi vooshy!
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[12:07:31] <kirilla> hope you don't mind my removing those keywords
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[12:08:15] <kirilla> I don't think keywords bring much extra to bug reports, esp in the presence of full text search
[12:13:32] <kirilla> btw, the background of that screenshot sure looks vooshy to me :)
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[12:36:51] <vooshy> kirilla: background my taste, but just a deviant art
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[12:45:29] <rohit123> The statement for gsoc 2010 ideas page mentions writing a api to replicate similar functionality as cURL. Does this simply mean a cURL implmentation in C++ and then extending an API out of it?
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[12:47:21] <OmniMancer> rohit123: this has been brought up before, I think either is acceptable but probably the most bug free way is make a C++ interface to curl
[12:48:36] <rohit123> So a C++ implmenation of cURL is a better idea
[12:49:03] <rohit123> A complete rewrite from scratch
[12:49:11] <OmniMancer> how did you get that idea from what I said?
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[12:49:19] <warpdesign> hello
[12:49:27] <OmniMancer> also I am not the person to ask these questions :P
[12:49:44] <vooshy> rohit123: post your question on the haiku-dev mailing list, stephen's webkit project is what uses the curl
[12:50:01] <rohit123> okay
[12:51:17] <warpdesign> is network supposed to be supported in virtualbox ?
[12:52:01] <kirilla> rohit123: just a bried reflection: if such a new kit is made a wrapper on top of curl it best to hide curl completely, making it possible to replace curl (in the future) while keeping the exact same C++ interface
[12:52:25] <kirilla> s/bried/brief
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[12:54:38] <rohit123> kirilla: Thank you for this insight. So it is not proposed to rewrite curl momentarily. A c++ wrapper to hide curl is supposed to implemented.
[12:56:05] <Auronandace> warpdesign: yes, but you need to makke it an intel network card
[12:57:22] <rohit123> warpdesign: select intel/pro1000 mt desktop 82540em as adapter type and Attached to: Nat .
[12:57:44] <kirilla> rohit123: you'd have to ask on the mailing-list, to find out which is preferred (reimplementation or wrapper API), but I think it's easier/faster/less bug-prone to go the wrapper way, as suggested by OmniMancer
[13:00:31] <OmniMancer> I don't see how he got the opposite impression by me suggesting that :/
[13:00:33] <kirilla> rohit123: I think in general when we expose functionality of 3'rd party libs via the Haiku API we try to contain/hide the underlying implementation.. e.g. libICU and the Locale Kit
[13:01:09] <OmniMancer> it is in general a good thing since then the impl may change without breaking things
[13:01:21] <eml> Hmm. It finds my ethernet chip/card, wants to load the driver but fails. "couldn't map interrupt", "PHY Reset would not complete", then init_hardware() and no hardware found.
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[13:05:31] <kirilla> eml: might have to wait on http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5
[13:05:57] <kirilla> unless there's some BIOS setting you can experiment with
[13:06:12] <kirilla> making the card get another IRQ
[13:07:11] <kirilla> I don't have much experience in this area though.
[13:08:04] <eml> http://www.haikuware.com/directory/view-details/drivers/network/broadcom-440x-10/100-ethernet-adapter I was thinking I'd try this one
[13:08:10] <eml> Just for the sake of it
[13:08:31] <eml> The driver should be placed in the /bin folder and then linked to the /net folder. <- what command is this? ln -s?
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[13:11:17] <MrSunshine__> eml, yes, and its /boot/system/add-ons/kernel something
[13:11:23] <MrSunshine__> it should be in not /bin /net :)
[13:11:43] <kirilla> If this driver is built for Haiku and available since 2008, and not currently part of Haiku 2010, it's probably no-good
[13:12:57] <kirilla> Getting device drivers on Haikuware is most likely not a good thing.
[13:13:18] <eml> Oh
[13:13:31] <warpdesign> rohit123: ok, thanks, i'll do that
[13:13:34] <eml> Well, I did it wrong I guess because my system still works and the problem persists =)
[13:13:48] <warpdesign> what are the differences between hybrid, gcc2, gcc4
[13:13:54] <warpdesign> I mean in a user pov
[13:14:46] <eml> kirilla: Guess I'll have to wait for that "fix", or perhaps I can find an old ethernet card here somewhere
[13:14:48] <kirilla> I don't think Haiku currently promises any binary compatibily for device drivers, so they're not guaranteed to work after 2 years
[13:14:53] <Auronandace> if you run a hybrid you can use apps that are compatible with both gcc
[13:15:18] <OmniMancer> warpdesign: gcc2 is more thoroughly tested and so is probably more stable
[13:16:27] <OmniMancer> the gcc2 hybrid is probably less likely to kdl, but I make no promises :)
[13:16:41] <warpdesign> ok, so for now it's only about stability ?
[13:16:51] <kirilla> eml: aren't cards with realtek chips available? I haven't shopped in a while
[13:17:02] <kirilla> 8139 or 8169 iirc
[13:17:02] <warpdesign> both have the same applications ? (i mean: there are not more/less apps for this or that compiler ?)
[13:17:08] <eml> kirilla: I'm not interested in buying anything :p
[13:17:17] <kirilla> eml: ah :)
[13:17:31] <eml> That would be my last resort
[13:17:31] <OmniMancer> warpdesign: if it's a hybrid you can run apps from both compilers :P
[13:17:43] <eml> kirilla: You speak of fiddling around in BIOS. What did you have in mind?
[13:17:58] <kirilla> warpdesign: some apps only build with gcc4 (e.g. WebPositive) but BeOS apps need a gcc2-built system to run, hence you want a hybrid system to run them all
[13:18:01] <OmniMancer> sometimes the bios lets you set IRQs
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[13:18:11] <rohit123> How to get svn to work in haiku. It works fine on host OS. I have a proxy environment. I have set http_proxy env variable in haiku. svn is not getting host???
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[13:18:47] <kirilla> rohit123: does everything else work? ping, route, dns?
[13:18:56] <rohit123> ping works
[13:18:59] <warpdesign> kallisti5: ok
[13:19:10] <rohit123> i can browse the internet
[13:19:12] <warpdesign> are there any drawbacks in using the hybrid version ?
[13:19:43] <kirilla> rohit123: I have no clues on the http proxy for svn, as I've never used that
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[13:21:16] <kirilla> eml: what OmniMancer said about setting IRQ. (or some general setting of assigning / not assigning IRQ or interrupts) I've never had to do it myself.
[13:21:59] <kirilla> warpdesign: more files to copy to the target volume when installing, making it take slightly longer :P
[13:22:48] <kirilla> rohit123: can you turn off the http proxy or is that outside of your control? campus network?
[13:23:05] <kirilla> warpdesign: in short, not really
[13:23:05] <rohit123> campus network.
[13:23:30] <eml> Oh well, couldn't find the IRQ for my onboard LAN in bios anyways. And no luck finding an old card
[13:24:05] <warpdesign> kirilla: then why are the two others provided ? this gives some confusion :) (and some more work i guess since the 3 ones have to be maintained..)
[13:24:27] <kirilla> rohit123: you can always crossbuild haiku from linux, macosx, freebsd, etc
[13:24:56] <kirilla> rohit123: if you have http proxy working with svn in any of those environments
[13:25:29] <rohit123> kirilla: okay. I have a host ubuntu system. I would try to cross compile it under ubuntu.
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[13:27:26] <eml> kirilla: There's a shop close to me that has a lot of used hardware, no doubt a few network cards. What should I be looking for?
[13:27:45] <kirilla> warpdesign: it's good to have them available for testing, as some bugs may show on a gcc2-built system but not in gcc4 and vice versa
[13:29:24] <OmniMancer> eml: intel 1000 pro if possible
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[13:30:00] <eml> Okay, anything else?
[13:30:46] <kirilla> eml: BELKIN 1X10/100/1000 PCI is supposedly based on Realtek 8169
[13:31:47] <eml> If a card is based on realtek 8169 I'm guessing it says that somewhere on it
[13:31:53] <eml> So I wrote 8169 and 8139 down
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[13:32:35] <kirilla> eml: I've heard someone say that the realtek were flaky, but they've always worked fine for me
[13:32:56] <eml> Anything's better than not working at all at this point :p
[13:33:03] <kirilla> eml: the intel cards are likely a good choice though
[13:33:11] <kirilla> realteks should be cheap
[13:33:33] <eml> I know the guy pretty well so I might just get away with it for free, or just a few bucks
[13:33:35] <kirilla> intel: http://www.dustin.se/pd_5010115189.aspx
[13:33:56] <kirilla> ~30 euro
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[13:34:29] <eml> 30 euro is still sort of an unnessecary expense if I buy it solely for Haiku :p
[13:34:43] <kirilla> rohit123: http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/
[13:35:12] <warpdesign> kirilla: indeed
[13:35:39] <kirilla> rohit123: http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/pre-reqs
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[13:36:08] <eml> By the way, I installed Haiku RC1 Alpha, do you think it'd work with a nightly image?
[13:36:15] <rohit123> kirilla: Thank you kirilla
[13:36:26] <kirilla> rohit123: np!
[13:37:01] <kirilla> eml: worth a shot. Worth a CD-R? ;)
[13:37:24] <vooshy> eml: give it a try, lots of fixes have been made since alpha1 http://www.haiku-files.org
[13:37:45] <kirilla> RW FTW!
[13:37:55] <eml> Luckily I didn't return the cd-rom I had to dig up to install debian & haiku.
[13:38:07] <Auronandace> eml, just out of curiosity did you have the ethernet cable in before you booted into haiku
[13:38:30] <eml> Auronandace: Yes I believe so. I'll reboot & make sure it's plugged in just to make sure
[13:39:17] <Auronandace> i know that when i plug in an ethernet cable after it boots, it doesn't pick up the network
[13:39:28] <Auronandace> i always need it in before it boots
[13:40:10] <eml> Sadly that wasn't the problem
[13:40:31] <Auronandace> i hope a nightly will be better for you
[13:40:36] <eml> Which version should I pick? gcc2?
[13:40:36] <kirilla> Auronandace: what card?
[13:40:43] <eml> And hybrid/not hybrid
[13:40:53] <kirilla> eml: gcc2hybrid is recommended
[13:41:07] <eml> Alright, downloading
[13:41:25] <Auronandace> kirilla: its an intelpro1000
[13:41:34] <kirilla> base system is gcc2 with gcc4 compatibility libs for running e.g. WebPositive
[13:41:42] <OmniMancer> gcc2hybrid is what the alpha is
[13:42:01] <OmniMancer> also once I booted with the cable in and the network card didn't show up :P
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[13:42:45] <eml> Umpfs, 80kb/s
[13:43:20] <kirilla> Auronandace: I'm having the similar issues with realtek 8139 and 8169, needing it to be plugged in at bootup, or else I have to do an "ifconfig dev.. auto-config"
[13:46:05] <kirilla> apart from these issues, the kernel's bsd network card compatibility layer does a good job of enabling a lot of hardware that would otherwise need drivers written from scratch by ourselves
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[13:48:26] <OmniMancer> yay
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[14:08:23] <CIA-45> jackburton * r35970 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/mail/ (DNSQuery.cpp DNSQuery.h):
[14:08:23] <CIA-45> Added some error checking to DNSQuery::GetDNSServers(), since it could fail.
[14:08:23] <CIA-45> Temporarily enabled debug to help with ticket #5655.
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[14:15:04] <Auronandace> i just tested whether bootman can chainload reactos
[14:15:06] <Auronandace> and yay
[14:15:11] <Auronandace> it works
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[15:02:25] <Hubert_> hey
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[15:52:47] <CIA-45> pulkomandy * r35971 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 6 dirs): Update & fix catkeys for ukrainian
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[16:24:03] <eml> Oh well, it says "Not implemented" under Driver Used when looking at my network card in Devices
[16:24:09] <eml> So I guess I got my answer :)
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[16:34:08] <mmu_screen> hmm
[16:34:11] <eml> Weird, there is a driver for my card, but it is not loaded
[16:34:32] <eml> http://haiku.it.su.se:8180/source/xref/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/broadcom440x/dev/bfe/ <- listdev says BCM4401 so this one should apply right?
[16:35:13] <mmu_screen> probably
[16:35:23] <mmu_screen> but maybe it doesn't have the PCI id in its list
[16:35:36] <mmu_screen> are you sure it's in the image ?
[16:35:47] <eml> I am not sure of anything
[16:36:31] <eml> id 0x4001 I'm guessing this is not the PCI id
[16:36:41] <eml> pci/device 9
[16:37:21] <eml> http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/wifi_intel_prowireless_3945abg this guy has the same problem (regarding his wired card, not the problem with wireless)
[16:38:30] <eml> Though it says device 4401 for me
[16:38:32] <mmu_screen> no the device number is the position on the bus
[16:40:02] <eml> mmhmm
[16:42:19] <kirilla> doesn't the "not implemented" meant that the general feature to list which driver is used for a certain piece of hardware, is currently not implemented?
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[16:42:32] <kirilla> not that the hardware is unsupported
[16:44:10] <kirilla> in which case the entire display of a driver (for a device) should be removed until it can show something meaningful (and which is less likely to to be misunderstood)
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[16:47:25] <kirilla> meaning not all info, but that specific line (Driver used)
[16:50:20] <eml> Oh
[16:50:36] <eml> Well, apparently the driver exists, but for some reason the hardware is not recognized and matched with it
[16:53:26] <kirilla> I think what you posted earlier hints that the driver is indeed loaded and recognises the hardware but finds itself unable to received interrupts for the device, and thus exits gracefully, unloading itself
[16:53:57] <eml> Meaning it simply doesn't work? :-P
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[16:55:30] <kirilla> it may not be a meaningful distinction to you, but if what I wrote is correct your assessment that the hardware is not recognized is then incorrect, and could put you or someone else on the wrong track, trying to figure out how to make this driver recognize your hardware
[16:55:38] <kirilla> when the issue is something else
[16:55:53] <eml> Oh alright =)
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[16:57:02] <kirilla> kernel/driver developer time being a resource that is very scarce, and miniscule in relation to the heap of missing hardware support, sadly
[16:57:39] <kirilla> so we have to be careful to chase the right problem :)
[16:57:45] <kirilla> so anyway :)
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[17:00:10] <eml> Thank you for clarfying ;)
[17:00:20] <rohit123> Just finished compiling haiku source. it created a haiku.image file in generated folder. I did a cross compile from ubuntu. How can use this image in virtual box.
[17:00:57] <kirilla> rohit123: this is a raw filesystem image. There are other build targets.
[17:01:05] <humdinger> rohit123: I think you'll need a vmware image
[17:01:26] <humdinger> Hi kirilla! How's it going?
[17:01:36] <kirilla> hi humdinger :)
[17:01:59] <kirilla> humdinger: I'm knee-deep in the source of Mail :}
[17:02:16] <humdinger> kirilla: so I've seen. Any bigger plans in the near future?
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[17:02:49] <rohit123> What is the use of this raw filesystem image?
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[17:02:53] <kirilla> making it work pretty much as people remember it :P
[17:03:22] <humdinger> rohit123: you can dd it to a usb stick or partition to run natively.
[17:03:37] <kirilla> rohit123: you can dd it to a USB stick or run something (which I don't recall) on it to make it a disk image suitable for e.g. vmware
[17:04:16] <kirilla> rohit123: check build/jam/UserBuildConfig.Sample for some easy configurability, setting up your own targets
[17:04:22] <kirilla> heh
[17:04:46] <rohit123> kirilla: thx again.
[17:04:48] <rohit123> humdinger: thx u too
[17:04:51] <kirilla> np!
[17:04:55] <humdinger> not at all
[17:05:37] <humdinger> kirilla: If you're tired of the Mail business... there's always ArmyKnife. :)
[17:05:55] <kirilla> humdinger: mostly layout stuff and internal code clean-ups (hopefully)  (in Mail)
[17:05:59] <humdinger> having album cover pictures in the id3-tags would be great. .)
[17:06:08] <kirilla> humdinger: yeah, my huge bad conscience, ArmyKnife. :P
[17:06:23] <kirilla> I should get back to that.. :P
[17:06:23] <humdinger> It works pretty well for me already.
[17:07:01] <kirilla> that's a relief at least :)
[17:07:19] <humdinger> All the linux apps I tried suck to a more or less degree. And they also don't seem to include the album cover tag. At least not so my phone recognizes it.
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[17:08:03] <kirilla> there's a whole lot in the taglib library that ArmyKnife doesn't make use of, including cover art
[17:08:22] <kirilla> which I (or anyone) should work on
[17:09:04] <humdinger> I still have great problems understanding "grown" code... I barely can make sense of what I write myself :)
[17:09:29] <kirilla> heh
[17:09:44] <kirilla> people write differently
[17:10:15] <humdinger> Dealing with Mail, you know what you're talking about...
[17:10:20] <kirilla> some write simpler than others, but what's simple to one person isn't necessarily simple to another
[17:11:32] <kirilla> yes, I'm trying to make the internals of Mail simpler, FWIW :]
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[17:12:11] <humdinger> very much appreciated. It'll make it easier for everyone to evolve the app in the future.
[17:12:18] <kirilla> I hope so
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[17:13:03] <kirilla> Tracker suffers in that way, being complex internally and thus hard to work on
[17:14:11] <humdinger> I'll guess we'll have to wait post-R1 for the long awaited Tracker-rewrite.
[17:14:30] <humdinger> FWIW, I realy like Tracker. Best file management of any any OS IMO
[17:14:45] <humdinger> If there weren't the apparently hard to fix little bugs...
[17:15:01] <kirilla> yeah :)
[17:16:49] <kirilla> mm... pasta and coffee :))
[17:16:59] <humdinger> gag
[17:17:34] <kirilla> Knödel und Bier? :}
[17:17:42] <humdinger> better :)
[17:17:48] <mmadia> frozen girlscout thin mint cookies and coffee :)
[17:18:02] <humdinger> also better
[17:18:20] <humdinger> Though freezing your girlscouts could get you into trouble.
[17:18:29] <kirilla> heh
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[17:20:38] <mmadia> luroh ?
[17:21:07] <luroh> mmadia
[17:21:36] <kirilla> together we shall rule the galaxy
[17:21:44] <kirilla> ;)
[17:21:56] <mmadia> want to /newticket or [haiku-development] about your experiences with the setwep binary?
[17:22:36] <luroh> sure, can do that
[17:23:32] <l_n> mmadia: got another vm_fault.. this time it tried to write to a write-protected area... not much else of use before/after the vm_fault in the syslog..
[17:24:14] <mmadia> l_n : excellent, can you check http://dev.haiku-os.org/query and /newticket if needed?
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[17:25:03] * l_n wonders who broke the vm code... :P
[17:25:25] *** MichaelWesten|iB has quit IRC
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[17:28:04] <mmu_screen> not me
[17:28:12] <mmu_screen> :p
[17:28:49] <mmadia> mmu_screen : would you want to document all of your various TODO's somewhere?
[17:29:26] <mmadia> ... it may help to newcomers to find something to do
[17:29:29] <mmu_screen> eh lol
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[17:29:45] <mmu_screen> indeed...
[17:29:53] <mmu_screen> maybe a wiki page
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[17:30:04] <humdinger> mmu_screen: BTW is the OSS <-> native audio driver issue resolved yet?
[17:30:27] <mmu_screen> it should be, though I don't think the fix has been commited to OSS
[17:31:12] <l_n> wouldn't a redirected grep find all todo's documented in the code? or are you referring to the TODO's in mmu_screen's brain?
[17:31:14] <rohit123> hey wow, the haiku raw image burned on usb stick works.......hurrah
[17:31:21] <rohit123> I love this OS
[17:31:25] <l_n> rohit123: you had doubts?
[17:31:35] <mmadia> in brain, l_n.
[17:31:58] <mmadia> like for projects and tasks that aren't yet part of the source tree
[17:32:18] <humdinger> mmu_screen: I see. Is the issue resolved for us Haiku users even if it's not yet committed to OSS?
[17:32:19] <kirilla> heh :) nice to hear of your progress, rohit123!
[17:32:35] <rohit123> kirilla: thanks and am really excited , lots of questions again
[17:32:47] <kirilla> rohit123: you're not Swedish by any chance?
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[17:33:11] <rohit123> kirilla: u r right but what makes you say that
[17:33:37] <kirilla> ro hit = gimme :) I'm Swedish, as is luroh and tqh
[17:34:05] <humdinger> Sweed!
[17:34:35] <rohit123> kirilla: land of linus trovalds, nokia and the inventor of irc
[17:34:37] <kirilla> and probably some others which I forget here in incognitoville
[17:35:14] <kirilla> rohit123: ah! Finlandssvensk?
[17:35:44] <rohit123> kirilla: well thats close by
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[17:36:51] <rohit123> Comping the source tree gave me a complete operating system with applications included.
[17:36:55] <kirilla> rohit123: there's both #haiku-se and #haiku-fi, both scarcely populated, but there in case you feel like conversing in either Swedish or Finnish
[17:37:14] <Kokito> good morning folks
[17:37:19] <kirilla> hi Kokito
[17:37:30] <kirilla> which reminds me.. coffee
[17:37:54] <rohit123> kirilla: I don't know these languages. I belong to India
[17:38:44] <l_n> hrm.. vision returns nothing when executing /names <channel>
[17:39:23] <kirilla> rohit123: oh, I misunderstood you then :) I thought you replied positive to my question of whether you were Swedish.
[17:39:45] <rohit123> kirilla: oh
[17:39:47] <mmadia> l_n :  /who <channel>
[17:40:24] <l_n> ty
[17:41:29] <rohit123> kirilla: I  had the entire source compiled and have the image burned on a usb stick. It workds.But this building process takes hours.  How does one make changes to the source and test them faster?
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[17:42:55] <kirilla> rohit123: when you jam again it should be a lot faster, since it has to rebuild only the targets that have change, or that depend on other targets that have changed (been edited or updated) since your last build
[17:43:02] <mmadia> rohit123 : did you read build/jam/UserBuildConfig.ReadMe?
[17:43:21] <mmadia> there's a section on 'update' or maybe 'update-all'
[17:43:25] <kirilla> rohit123: in short, you should not have to wait for a full build every time
[17:44:18] <kirilla> rohit123: additionally, if you'er working on a single application (for example src/apps/mail) you can cd to that subfolder, and run jam from there, which builds on the target "Mail"
[17:44:32] <kirilla> builds -only- the target Mail, I mean to say
[17:45:06] <rohit123> mmadia: I did, but did not make sense out of it then,  now when I need it badly i am going to read it seriously.
[17:45:33] <mmadia> kirilla : if their generated directory is named anything other than "generated", that may require  `jam -q -sHAIKU_OUTPUT_DIR=<something>`
[17:45:58] <kirilla> mmadia: oh, I didn't know that
[17:46:59] <mmadia> normally i try cd <differently-named-generated> ; jam -q <name-of-thing>
[17:47:07] <mmadia> like jam -q Installer
[17:47:39] <mmadia> though, i'm not sure how jam figures that out.
[17:47:53] <kirilla> yeah, that'd be faster than naming the output dir
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[17:56:53] <DraX> uhh
[17:56:57] <DraX> that's a lot of finnish translation
[17:58:05] <mmadia> i actually ended up temporarily blocking his account, to get his attention.
[17:58:43] <mmadia> my first email asking him to stop went unnoticed for 30~40minutes.
[18:01:06] <Kokito> mmadia, the HTA FAQ still tells translators to post their translations in Trac: http://hta.haikuzone.net/faq
[18:01:11] <rohit123> jam the second time does run very very fast.
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[18:12:02] <tm513> Has MPD ever been ported to Haiku?
[18:14:06] <tm513> also for the raw images you use dd to copy the image to a flash drive?
[18:14:23] <jarz> tm513, I believe so regarding dd
[18:14:38] <tm513> okay, shouldnt be to difficult
[18:15:01] <tm513> last time i tried running haiku on my netbook it wouldnt boot
[18:15:05] <tm513> that was last month
[18:17:56] <kirilla> tm513: how far did it get?
[18:18:09] <kirilla> tm513: and did you figure out the cause?
[18:18:53] <tm513> i was not able to find out the cause, i'm not really good at debugging
[18:19:04] <tm513> it got to the splash screen IIRC
[18:19:28] <kirilla> tm513: there's a boot options to show textual bootup output
[18:19:47] <tm513> like what?
[18:19:48] <kirilla> tm513: you can enter the boot menu by holding shift right at the start
[18:19:55] <tm513> ok
[18:20:24] <kirilla> tm513: like, all the hardware getting recognized, partitions found, kernel stuff
[18:20:35] <tm513> okay
[18:20:52] <tm513> I'm on an Acer Aspire One
[18:20:55] <tm513> NAV50
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[18:21:24] <kirilla> some of the aspire should work, I thought
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[18:22:43] <tm513> not sure
[18:22:53] *** Kroki has joined #haiku
[18:22:57] <tm513> certainly /didnt/ work on this one
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[18:23:06] <AlienSoldier> kirilla i missed the reason why it's moved from the bar to the shif? any idea why?
[18:23:27] <kirilla> something about clashing with Grub, I think.. don't know for sure
[18:23:45] <AlienSoldier> ok
[18:24:00] <kirilla> F8 migth work too
[18:24:14] <kirilla> though it was discussed to remove this again
[18:24:43] <AlienSoldier> num or cap lock would be great, you could not have to hold the button down :)
[18:26:07] <AlienSoldier> i wonder if it would be possible to do like on the amiga for ps/2 mouse, holding the 2 button
[18:26:17] <CIA-45> mmadia * r35972 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Added license for MkDepend
[18:26:26] <AlienSoldier> usb probably come too late in the game
[18:26:26] <tm513> gonna put a haiku install on my MP3 player
[18:26:29] <tm513> so i can boot it
[18:26:31] <tm513> :P
[18:26:51] <tm513> since all of my other flash drives dont have enough room
[18:29:37] <CIA-45> mmadia * r35973 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp: Changed the URL for MkDepend to not display the .html, similar to MAPM.
[18:30:22] *** mmadia is now known as mmadia42
[18:31:00] <tm513> well I'll be idle for a while
[18:31:07] <tm513> logging out of ssh
[18:33:38] <AlienSoldier> one thing i don't like about the about windows is that the list of contributor take long to appear.  It's as if it need to have it all in ram before display it.
[18:33:58] <AlienSoldier> it may look the system unresponsive
[18:34:16] <AlienSoldier> *make
[18:35:00] <helf> hiii
[18:35:39] <AlienSoldier> hi helf, sold all your possesion and walking along the interstate for new adventure yet?
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[18:39:52] <leszek> hi
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[18:40:40] <tm513> i have revision 35962 downloaded
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[18:42:58] <Kokito> martinhpedersen, nice release :)
[18:46:08] <tm513> it's copying :)
[18:46:40] <tm513> after this i'll be idling again
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[18:49:25] <tm513> slow transfer ftw
[18:51:16] * JonathanThompson poits helf
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[18:55:51] <CIA-45> pulkomandy * r35974 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): showimage ukrainian translation.
[18:58:31] <tm513> hi helf :P
[18:58:46] * tm513 is mrmacplus from 68kmla :P
[18:59:09] <CIA-45> mmadia * r35975 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[18:59:09] <CIA-45> * Added licenses for CQuantizer, MAPM.
[18:59:09] <CIA-45> * Updated AboutSystem to use them
[18:59:09] <CIA-45> * Removed trailing '/' from MkDepend's .SetURL
[18:59:15] <tm513> as it turns out i cant boot from my mp3 player
[18:59:31] <tm513> unless i find a way to add a menu to grub
[18:59:38] <tm513> *menu item
[19:00:56] <jarz> netboot?
[19:02:23] <tm513> using what? :P
[19:02:38] <tm513> i need to find a bigger flash drive
[19:03:50] <tm513> my zen mosaic works as a flash drive but doesnt go into "do not disconnect" mode until after the bios boots grub
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[19:09:21] <CIA-45> bonefish * r35976 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/debug/debug.cpp:
[19:09:21] <CIA-45> "syslog" debugger command: By default it now ignores the output added to the
[19:09:21] <CIA-45> syslog in the current KDL session. Added option "-k" for the former behavior.
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[19:11:27] <CIA-45> bonefish * r35977 /haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/loader/ (main.cpp menu.cpp):
[19:11:27] <CIA-45> Moved setting the debug syslog default to main(). Previously that was done
[19:11:27] <CIA-45> only when the boot loader menu was entered.
[19:12:31] <tm513> you guys make lots of commits
[19:18:04] <jarz> is that a bad thing?
[19:19:06] <Kokito> we are very commited :P
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[19:19:38] <DraX> tm513: why would you port mpd
[19:20:38] <DraX> haiku naturally provides a lot of the benefits, except possibly remote connections, if not all of them of sometihng like mpd or xmms2
[19:20:49] <DraX> and i say this as an xmms2 developer who has found no reason to port it :)
[19:21:48] <tm513> I dunno
[19:21:59] <tm513> sounds like a good idea
[19:22:05] <Kokito> heh
[19:22:08] <DraX> you can control playback with BMessages
[19:22:28] <DraX> you can query the file system for the benefits of a database-based player (though mpd doesn't really provide that)
[19:23:03] <DraX> you might want to make some nice APIs for doing some of this stuff, but the actual functionality is all there
[19:23:32] <tm513> I don't really have the knowledge to do that sort of stuff
[19:23:37] <Kokito> DraX, isn´t mpd something like BeInStereo?
[19:23:45] <tm513> I can port some things fine
[19:24:05] <DraX> Kokito: link?
[19:24:26] <DraX> tm513: those things are core to actually using a beos like OS
[19:24:32] <DraX> file system queries are prevasive and awesome
[19:24:38] <DraX> and you can send bmessages from the terminal with hey
[19:24:48] <tm513> mpd is a server, pretty much, Kokito
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[19:25:03] <Kokito> http://bebits.com/app/1789
[19:25:27] <tm513> it interfaces with the local sound interfaces and is controlled with a client
[19:25:31] <DraX> Kokito: mpd doesn't itself present a web ui, though there are clients that do so
[19:25:49] <DraX> mpd is kind of gross, but i'm biased
[19:25:52] <Kokito> ic DraX
[19:26:02] <tm513> either local or remote, plus you can server icecast, and http streams
[19:26:23] <Kokito> I think once NetBFS becomes viable, something like mpd is kind of a moot point though
[19:26:34] <DraX> i got involved with xmms2 because it allowed one to do some the cool stuff you could do with beos
[19:26:40] <DraX> mpd can't actually do any of those things
[19:26:44] <DraX> it's query interface is a joke
[19:27:00] <tm513> why though? mpd is well developed and is sort of de facto for this sort of thing
[19:27:26] <DraX> try and implement a client for mpd
[19:27:27] <tm513> since its a daemon the user wouldn't have to deal with the UNIX nastiness behind it
[19:27:35] <DraX> there are like 50 client libraries
[19:27:38] <DraX> all that work in different ways
[19:27:42] <tm513> just connect via a client yea
[19:27:47] <DraX> some that try to mimic async, even though the client doesn't support async
[19:27:52] <DraX> s/client/server/
[19:28:07] <Kokito> DraX, sounds like fun :)
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[19:28:29] <DraX> it doesn't let you query the metadata database in interesting ways so the burden of implementing stuff like smart playlists is entirely on the client authors
[19:28:43] <DraX> who all end up doing it in different horrific and incompatible ways
[19:29:21] <Kokito> that sux
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[19:30:41] <DraX> but like i said
[19:30:41] <kirilla> bbl
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[19:30:53] <DraX> haiku can do all this stuff already with a bit of elbowgrease
[19:31:01] <tm513> nice
[19:31:02] <DraX> and better
[19:31:31] <tm513> i gotta port something though :P
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[19:31:47] <tm513> i'd probably need a working port of wxWidgets though
[19:31:56] <DaneScott> mmu_screen: good news
[19:32:42] <l_n> tm513: IMO, the constant commits allow users like myself to real-world test the stuff these guys are doing faster..
[19:32:58] <l_n> i update about once a week to see if some bugs disappear or new ones show up.
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[19:33:39] <tm513> l_n: i wasn't criticising, btw, just making an observation ;)
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[19:35:43] <DraX> tm513: port as in, attempt to compile, or port as in write the necesary code to make it work? :)
[19:36:16] <l_n> tm513: understood. i was just making an observation about your observation. :P
[19:36:27] <tm513> write the necesary code :P
[19:36:27] <DraX> *yawn*
[19:37:06] <DraX> tm513: there are some recent patches to get cairo going that probably just need a bit of a hammer
[19:37:18] <tm513> i want to port odamex to haiku (an online DooM source port)
[19:37:31] <tm513> uses SDL and SDL_mixer
[19:37:32] <DraX> http://lists.ports.haiku-files.org/pipermail/haikuports-devs-ports.haiku-files.org/2010-January/000740.html
[19:37:42] <tm513> and timidity
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[19:37:49] <DraX> the patch is attached t othat message
[19:37:56] <tm513> ah
[19:38:07] <DraX> a cairo port would be very nice, would probably mean we could port libpoppler simply by compiling it
[19:38:18] <mmadia42> stippi may have some additional changes, but the cairo port has been put back on the shelf.
[19:38:42] <DraX> mmadia42: only because stippi opted not to do firefox, but there is no reason not to port cairo
[19:38:45] <mmadia42> there was even talk of making an API interface/wrapper for cairo.
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[19:39:22] <mmadia42> exactly. just no one is doing it right now.
[19:39:26] <tm513> we need google chrome :D
[19:39:35] <l_n> that would require the source..
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[19:39:42] <DraX> well if you want chrome, step one is to port skia
[19:39:45] <tm513> chromium
[19:39:54] <tm513> open source, l_n
[19:40:19] <DraX> http://code.google.com/p/skia/
[19:40:22] <DraX> skia is google's cairo
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[19:40:46] <DraX> and forms the foundation of chromium's rendering engine. Ie, if we ported chrome we wouldn't be using the haiku webkit port at all
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[19:41:05] <tm513> ah
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[19:41:45] <tm513> will the new netpositive use Gnash?
[19:42:25] <Kokito> not at this point in time tm513
[19:42:32] <DraX> it doesn't currently support npapi plugins
[19:42:33] <Kokito> but I think it is planned
[19:42:35] <DraX> but once it does, yes
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[19:42:57] <tm513> yea, i read about some of the progress
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[19:43:34] <tm513> so it basically will render pages just as chrome or safari would render them? webkit?
[19:43:47] <DraX> ish
[19:44:00] <DraX> it's worth noting that webkit ports tend to vary
[19:44:19] <DraX> much more than firefox ones do, since firefox requires everyone to go through cairo for the actual page drawing
[19:44:20] <tm513> itll be better than the slow firefox 2 there currently is though :P
[19:45:20] <DraX> it already is
[19:45:50] <DraX> ff2 is a perverse joke on any platform
[19:45:58] <DraX> well firefox is in general
[19:46:45] <tm513> firefox is slow
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[19:48:39] <DraX> vooshy: i don't know if you had a chance to try the aim caya yet, if so I actually think i know how to fix the bug were some messages don't arrive which i'll try and implement today
[19:49:20] <DraX> the AIM library i'm using doesn't have support for the entire icbm rendevous channel which includes extended messages
[19:49:37] <DraX> so it just should be a matter of implementing support for receiving extended messages
[19:50:38] <tm513> what about irssi on haiku?
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[19:50:51] <tm513> doesnt irssi just use ncurses?
[19:50:57] <DraX> think so
[19:51:11] <DraX> actually
[19:51:12] <DraX> LIB_DEPENDS=    glib-2.0:${PORTSDIR}/devel/glib20
[19:51:27] <tm513> thats it?
[19:51:39] <tm513> has it been ported before?
[19:51:48] <DraX> check on haikuports
[19:52:47] <DraX> it probably requires ncurses too, but not a special version
[19:52:48] <jarz> which javascript engine is WebPositive using?
[19:53:01] <DraX> jarz: i believe SFE without the jit
[19:53:39] <jarz> thanks DraX
[19:53:46] <tm513> haikuports doesnt have a compiled binary, havent looked in the source
[19:54:13] <DraX> haikuports doesn't have binaries i think
[19:54:30] <DraX> i guess the correct acronym is actually SFX
[19:54:33] <tm513> they do
[19:54:36] <DraX> but that's sound effects :P
[19:54:40] <cpr420> DraX: There are packages on the download page, but are package server is fubar
[19:54:48] <cpr420> s/are/our
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[19:55:33] <tm513> they have a patch for echat
[19:55:45] <DraX> ERC works :)
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[19:56:37] <tm513> does haiku come with ncurses?
[19:58:02] <vooshy> DraX: yeah i tried aim but realised i didnt have an account or anyone i knew on aim so couldnt test very well, it logged in ok
[19:58:13] <tm513> well i better stop wasting time and just find this stuff out by myself
[19:58:45] <DraX> vooshy: :D
[19:59:13] <DraX> AIM seems to be mostly a US people of around my age thing
[19:59:35] <tm513> is there a good java implementation on haiku?
[19:59:48] <tm513> theres aTunes that might run
[19:59:53] <DraX> there is no java implementation on haiku but there is a porting effort
[20:00:24] <vooshy> DraX: i used it about 6 years ago, but even then only had two buddies
[20:01:13] <DraX> it might also be possible to get llvm's vmkit to work on haiku
[20:01:21] <DraX> http://vmkit.llvm.org/
[20:02:28] <DraX> vmkit might be able to run the eclipse compiler to help with the bootstrapping process for openjdk too
[20:03:46] <tm513> gonna go burn haiku
[20:03:54] <tm513> to a cdrw
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[20:04:38] <jarz> I can test AIM if needed
[20:05:14] <DraX> jarz: http://alexbl.net/git/?p=caya-alex.git;a=summary
[20:05:47] <tm513> how about Pidgin for haiku :3
[20:05:56] <DraX> ...
[20:06:14] <DraX> i actually would have loved to have ported libpurple
[20:06:25] <DraX> but its dependencies are a bit annoying
[20:07:06] <jarz> DraX, I'll give it a go later today. Busy implementing malloc for a class.
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[20:07:55] <DraX> wanna implement a collecting malloc for the emacs bootstrap process? :D
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[20:09:45] <jarz> sry, i use vim atm ;)
[20:10:42] <jarz> Would that be coded in Emacs-Lisp?
[20:11:10] <DraX> no
[20:11:28] <jarz> thank $DIETY
[20:11:49] <DraX> emacs has a bootstrap phase where it loads a lot of elisp into memory and then dumps out a process with all the new data injected into it
[20:11:58] <DraX> as a new elf binary
[20:12:06] <leszek> oO , the screenshoter app now saves the screenshots files with localized filename, my screencast script is waste now :P
[20:12:18] <DraX> there are a few approaches to actually collecting the new data, and one of them is to write your own malloc
[20:12:23] <CIA-45> mmadia * r35978 /haiku/trunk/data/system/data/licenses/CQuantizer: Corrected CQuantizer license.
[20:12:33] <stpere> leszek: hehehe
[20:12:46] <jarz> sounds interesting DraX
[20:12:48] <stpere> just need to make X new version of it, that's all
[20:13:09] <DraX> on most *nix it just uses sbrk(0)
[20:13:16] <DraX> on os x it does the malloc thing
[20:13:17] <stpere> X being the number of language in the world
[20:13:35] <jarz> this project is basically a wrapper for sbrk(0)
[20:13:36] <DraX> stpere: or read the catkey file
[20:13:53] <stpere> hmm, I meant the version of the screencast
[20:13:56] <stpere> oh
[20:13:58] <stpere> right
[20:14:24] <jarz> http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cs354/lab4/index.html
[20:18:12] <OmniMancer> DraX: you can't do some trick iterating through areas or something?
[20:18:20] <CIA-45> mmu_man * r35979 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/ports/pc_serial/Driver.cpp:
[20:18:20] <CIA-45> Seems NetMos is another brand for MosChip, use the better known brand.
[20:18:20] <CIA-45> Add link to datasheet for the other supported chip. Seems their site wants people to register to get them, but google indexed the PDF directly anyway so...
[20:18:53] <DraX> OmniMancer: actually cpr420 found a good trick
[20:19:02] <DraX> but he gets a crash when using it anyway
[20:19:20] <DraX> http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/TheKernelKit_Images.html#get_image_info
[20:19:36] <DraX> actually provides pointers to the data and text blocks
[20:19:49] <tm513> if i repartition my drive, would i be able to install haiku and keep windows and linux?
[20:20:08] <jmayfield> haiku eats other oses
[20:20:12] <tm513> like resize a partition, create a 3gb one for haiku
[20:20:24] <tm513> :(
[20:20:33] <jmayfield> ignore me. i am being silly
[20:20:36] <OmniMancer> yes tm513 you can
[20:20:48] <tm513> awesome
[20:20:52] <tm513> is it difficult?
[20:22:20] <OmniMancer> DraX: that suggests you may still have to iterate!
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[20:29:22] <OmniMancer> DraX: could any of the elisp code be in a library's memory space?
[20:30:13] <DraX> doubtful
[20:30:19] <DraX> it crashes during the copying process i think
[20:30:24] <OmniMancer> hmmm
[20:30:42] <OmniMancer> probably does something evil, or you have unforeseen consequences!
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[20:40:56] <DraX> the best reference i can find on the oscar protocol has horrible ads that actually redirect my browser and play music with flash and other awful crap
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[20:42:17] <CIA-45> mmadia * r35980 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[20:42:17] <CIA-45> * Replaced MkDepend license file with a more generic BSD (Alternate 3-clause)
[20:42:17] <CIA-45> * Updated several program's license & URL
[20:42:17] <CIA-45> * Added a note about libxml2, libxslt, libexslt
[20:43:10] <jarz> Is it the opinion of the channel that more kernel developers are needed, or more application developers (and porters) instead?
[20:43:25] <mmadia42> yes to all  3.
[20:43:37] <DHowett> indeed :P
[20:43:37] <DraX> yeah i think it's hard to pick
[20:43:51] <DraX> we probably have the least kernel hackers but they seem to be very productive
[20:44:10] <jarz> ok, i'm more interested in kernel dev, but i'm just in an undergrad OS course at the moment
[20:44:30] <DraX> what good is school? :P
[20:44:37] <OmniMancer> :P
[20:44:53] * DraX has a cultural anthropology degree
[20:44:53] <jarz> i've been looking through Trac to find tickets i can handle
[20:44:54] <mmadia42> jarz : anything that can be done is needed and welcomed -- c/c++, translations, documentation, bug identification, web development, artistic design, audio design, .....
[20:44:56] <OmniMancer> I want a kernel dev to finish signals :P
[20:45:09] <jarz> like SIGINT signals?
[20:45:18] <DraX> i think he's talking about sigaction()
[20:45:22] <jarz> ah
[20:45:22] <OmniMancer> like the siginfo struct
[20:45:35] <jarz> that sounds interesting
[20:45:41] <OmniMancer> or more whatever goes behind it to make it work :P
[20:45:50] <jarz> i've hacked on a bit of Xinu's signals stuff
[20:46:06] <DraX> from looking at the code it honestly looks like all the stuff you need to do sigaction is mostly there
[20:46:07] <OmniMancer> but from the comment in the header file where its commented out I get the impression its hard and will be a while
[20:46:15] <DraX> i don't know what ingo is talking about when he says real-time signals are required
[20:46:20] <DraX> but then i'm probably missing something
[20:46:21] <OmniMancer> DraX: this is no sigaction
[20:46:27] <OmniMancer> not
[20:46:34] <DraX> yes it is
[20:47:05] <DraX> the siginfo struct is provided to a callback pased to sigaction
[20:47:11] <DraX> sigaction(2)
[20:47:12] <DraX> go read it
[20:49:13] <OmniMancer> okay fine :P
[20:50:18] <DraX> when i looked at it, it seemed to me that it supporting __sa_sigaction callback is actually almost implemented
[20:50:26] <DraX> s/that it/that/
[20:50:38] <DraX> but like i said i could be missing something
[20:52:32] <DraX> UTSL
[20:54:35] <MasterStarman> Is it possible to use the buildtools made for compiling Haiku for application cross compilation?
[20:59:03] <MasterStarman> Actually, I think I figured it out but just for clarification is trunk/generated/cross-tools/bin/ the tool chain root?
[21:00:45] <jarz> zomg i <3 c/c++ development and never want to do anything other than it
[21:00:59] <OmniMancer> why jarz?
[21:01:20] <OmniMancer> MasterStarman: all of the apps on haiku are compiled with that crosscompiler I believe
[21:01:29] <jarz> i just do, something about the low-levelness of it i think
[21:01:55] <jarz> granted i haven't invested time in python yet, so who knows how that (or a functional language) could blow my mind
[21:01:56] <MasterStarman> I'll try it and see... thanks
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[21:02:39] <OmniMancer> or you could look at low level x86 and be swiftly repelled :P
[21:03:12] <jarz> i don't like CISC assembly, had one lab in IA32 and didn't enjoy it
[21:03:21] <jarz> RISC assembly is much more fun
[21:03:31] <DraX> there is something rather nice about reading something like a binary protocol implementation in C
[21:03:35] <MasterStarman> lol, I'm the opposite of Jarz, I like high level stuff
[21:03:39] <MasterStarman> OBJ-C FTW
[21:03:45] <DraX> a lot of things turn out to be easier
[21:05:12] <OmniMancer> um
[21:05:21] <OmniMancer> OBJ-C != higher level :P
[21:05:40] <MasterStarman> Well, working with Cocoa, that's what I should have said
[21:05:59] <MasterStarman> Cocoa abstracts a lot of things from the programmer.
[21:06:18] <DraX> libFoundation
[21:06:33] <MasterStarman> that would be one of the things I work with
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[21:07:53] <MasterStarman> Despite having a garbage collector available I still use the release retain mechanism so I can keep track of memory
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[21:08:25] <MasterStarman> I like interfaces, building easy to use and intuitive interfaces
[21:09:06] <OmniMancer> if you look at how obj-C is implemented
[21:09:27] <OmniMancer> its effectively a runtime that would let you code object oriented stuff in C with a compiler that hides the ugly
[21:09:45] <MasterStarman> yeah, it was originally a preprocessor extension
[21:09:55] <OmniMancer> so was c++ :P
[21:10:09] <OmniMancer> however C++ produces code without millions of library calls
[21:10:12] <MasterStarman> didn't know that, makes sense though
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[21:10:22] <MasterStarman> hmm, maybe I'm less high level than I thought
[21:10:26] <OmniMancer> the first version was a preprocessor
[21:10:28] <DraX> OmniMancer: well c++ doesn't have fully dynamic dispatch
[21:10:32] <MasterStarman> I do prefer dynamic over static though
[21:10:44] <OmniMancer> DraX: yes yes yes but it makes small fast code :P
[21:11:04] <DraX> if you throw out dynamic dispatch you can implement objc without runtime requirements for messaging
[21:11:16] <OmniMancer> indeed
[21:11:26] <DraX> but that loses most of the cool features of objc
[21:11:28] <OmniMancer> but dynamic dispatch gives it most of its interesting things
[21:11:30] <MasterStarman> truen
[21:11:31] <DraX> like being able to intercept messages, etc
[21:11:33] <MasterStarman> and GCC will shit
[21:11:50] <OmniMancer> much like throwing out the name mangler in C++ loses everything :P
[21:11:54] <MasterStarman> lol
[21:12:16] <MasterStarman> when it comes down to it though a lot of this stuff seems to be programmer preference
[21:12:18] <CIA-45> bonefish * r35981 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/debug/debug.cpp: Fixed gcc 2 build.
[21:12:46] <MasterStarman> (that's not all of it obviously, but a good portion of it)
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[21:14:45] <DraX> i'm going to go read in the park
[21:14:47] <DraX> bbl
[21:14:47] <OmniMancer> yea a lot of stuff is preference
[21:14:51] <OmniMancer> bye
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[21:19:08] <MasterStarman> This is cool, changing the IDE made all the difference
[21:19:26] <MasterStarman> heh, maybe I should look at porting Eclipse to Haiku
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[21:20:25] <OmniMancer> MasterStarman: unless you plan on rewriting it in C++ which is a biiiiiiiiiiiiiig job, you have to port java
[21:21:02] <MasterStarman> Java on Haiku
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[21:21:05] <MasterStarman> I read something about that...
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[21:23:17] <MasterStarman> OmniMancer, well, it wouldn't be a one person job. I've said a lot but right now I plan to just stick around, meet people and learn the API
[21:23:47] <OmniMancer> :P okay, I have to go
[21:23:48] <OmniMancer> bye
[21:23:51] <MasterStarman> l8r
[21:24:45] <jarz> what ide were you originally using MasterStarman?
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[21:25:33] <MasterStarman> I tried a few, I had the best luck with projects in Paladin but its system of using an external editor wasn't really working
[21:25:42] <MasterStarman> If you have any suggestions...
[21:25:55] <MasterStarman> Preferably something I can use with the GCC2 version and the GCC4 version
[21:27:08] <jarz> ah, doing in Haiku development
[21:27:27] <jarz> i do my dev outside of Haiku
[21:27:42] <MasterStarman> can you help me get the cross compiler set up?
[21:28:06] <MasterStarman> I think I got it figured out but Eclipse is still having problems
[21:28:12] <mmadia42> MasterStarman : there may be a ticket on Trac with a script for it.
[21:28:24] <MasterStarman> I will look there, thanks
[21:28:25] <mmadia42> but cross-compiling apps is becoming outdated
[21:29:20] <MasterStarman> I saw that too (I've actually read most of your guidelines and quite a few of the news posts) but I still haven't found a good IDE to use in Haiku
[21:29:40] <MasterStarman> honestly, I'd be happy with a smart text editor with a nice project management interface
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[21:33:16] <MasterStarman> lol, I've been here for like 4 days, it's going to take a little while to get workflow sorted out
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[21:46:28] <helf> mmadia42, I spent 5 minutes with my box last night before the temps go too high without a fan. but it posted at 3.4ghz with a 1600mhz fsb with no complaints. good signs :)
[21:46:55] <mmadia42> the 9550?
[21:47:00] <helf> yep
[21:47:04] <mmadia42> nice!
[21:47:25] <helf> actually ran for about 10 minutes with just the heatsink at that speed before it hit ~68c and i turned it off. lol
[21:47:35] <helf> i couldnt run the cpu fan since it was about midnight and it would have woken everyone up
[21:49:48] <jarz> phenom quad core?
[21:50:13] <helf> no
[21:50:19] <helf> intel Q9550
[21:50:24] <helf> Core2 Quad
[21:50:42] <jarz> cool
[21:51:05] <helf> yeah, ill be happy with it for awhile once I get it running like I want :D
[21:51:12] <jarz> when i have the money, i'd like to have a core i7 setup, but its probably overkill
[21:51:45] <helf> heh, yeah :p
[21:51:56] <helf> ill just wait for free hand-me-down i5/7s in 10 years :p
[21:52:13] <helf> im upgrading off p3s to this core2 quad, so i know ill be happy for 5+ years on it
[21:52:24] <jarz> nice
[21:52:58] <jarz> i've got a core duo laptop right here, i'd like some more cores for virtual machines
[21:53:21] <helf> my goal is to run it at around 3-3.5ghz with a 2ghz fsb. i bought 2ghz ddr3 so the memory shouldnt be a bottle neck. just hoping the board can take it.
[21:56:20] <helf> I'm not going to know what to do when movie ripping takes 5 minutes instead of 45 :D
[21:56:43] <jarz> what P3's were you using?
[21:56:48] <helf> tualatins
[21:56:51] <helf> still using them ,actually.
[21:56:59] <helf> 1.4ghz tualatins
[21:57:29] <jarz> i've got a 500mhz katmai back home
[21:57:34] <helf> before them, it was a single 1.4ghz, and before that, dual 600s :p
[21:57:42] <helf> i got the dual tualatin rig off mmadia.
[21:57:55] <helf> I used my dual katmai 600 440bx box with 1gb ecc pc100 for *years
[21:57:55] <helf> *
[21:58:33] <helf> played battlefield 1942 with a pci fx5500 256mb video card fine ^_^
[21:58:39] <jarz> i used it for quite a while until i started having weird win2k issues, then i upgraded to an old p4
[21:59:15] <helf> ive had faster machines come and go. but i stuck with the p3s since they were always so reliable
[21:59:19] <jarz> ram was my biggest issue with the p3, i only had 384mb and the mb was limited to 768mb
[21:59:32] <helf> yeah, my gx1 that just died had a 768mb limit
[21:59:38] <helf> it was the perfect beos box, tho
[22:00:00] <helf> hardware was 100% supported, the ram maxed out at the max beos could handle, 1.4ghz tualatin celeron :D i miss that thing
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[22:02:55] <jarz> very cool
[22:03:25] <jarz> i've got a sunblade1k sitting here, maybe i'll try porting haiku to that -_-
[22:03:29] <helf> hehe
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[22:04:03] <helf> I need to get rid of a few more PCs, really.
[22:04:26] <helf> trying to thin everything out
[22:05:58] <stpere> the problem is that between the time where it's new and powerful, and the time it reachs the vintage stage, it's almost valueless :)
[22:06:13] * JonathanThompson poits helf
[22:06:24] <JonathanThompson> Thinning out the herd, are you, helf ?
[22:06:25] <jarz> unless its a mac
[22:06:59] <stpere> jarz: yeah, and that
[22:08:22] <helf> or an amiga
[22:08:23] <helf> or atari falcon
[22:08:25] <helf> or..
[22:08:26] <helf> :p
[22:08:34] <stpere> "vintage" cough
[22:08:37] <helf> im trying t osell my NeXT if someone would buy it
[22:08:42] <stpere> that's what I meant
[22:08:50] <helf> I haven't put it on eBay yet
[22:09:02] <helf> stpere,ah :)
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[22:43:31] <leszek> n8
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[22:56:18] <mmadia42> l_n ?
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[23:37:51] <CIA-45> siarzhuk * r35982 /haiku/trunk/ (42 files in 42 dirs):
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   March 27, 2010  
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