March 20, 2010 
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March 20, 2010 [00:04:53] <Kokito> so, what do I need to do to create a query to show all emails for the last 7 days?[00:05:32] <Kokito> Sear email by attribute When after 7 days does not seem to do the trick[00:07:38] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[00:08:59] *** Advant has quit IRC[00:09:03] <JonathanThompson> Try after a certain date 7 days earlier, Kokito[00:09:27] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[00:09:39] <ragcsi> uh, i need some help[00:09:46] <ragcsi> i can't boot haiku from my hard drive[00:09:52] <JonathanThompson> Don't we all?[00:09:57] <ragcsi> i guess we do :/[00:10:04] *** Advant has joined #haiku[00:11:37] <Kokito> JonathanThompson, if I enter a specific date, the query does work[00:11:50] <JonathanThompson> IIRC there's a >= operator.[00:12:15] <kieselsteini> ragcsi: what is your problem? What do you mean with, don't boot? What exactly don't work?[00:12:19] <Kokito> but I don't know the syntax to tell the query to pickup files from the last 7 days[00:12:23] <JonathanThompson> It's been awhile since I've done it in BeOS/Haiku and I don't have it ins talled currently to try.[00:12:59] <ragcsi> kieselsteini: right after the grub menu (1.97) i just get a black screen[00:13:20] <ragcsi> sometimes with a flashing cursor, sometimes juts a black screen[00:13:21] <kieselsteini> have you installed the bootmanager?[00:13:30] <jmayfield_> hi JonathanThompson[00:13:38] <JonathanThompson> Hi jmayfield_[00:13:40] <Kokito> ragcsi, what video do you have?[00:13:56] <JonathanThompson> Do you have a timeline for your transition out of your position?[00:14:12] <jmayfield_> yeah.. end of year[00:14:50] <JonathanThompson> Well, if that's so, at least you've got time, though it still sucks to know things are likely coming to an end.[00:14:56] <jmayfield_> on a kinda-related note...i started fiddling with java[00:15:00] <JonathanThompson> How long have you been with them?[00:15:12] <jmayfield_> almost 3 years[00:15:31] <jmayfield_> since nearly the beginning of the co[00:15:48] <JonathanThompson> Have they told you that if you left before that time on your own, they wouldn't be upset?[00:15:58] <JonathanThompson> I mean: they need to be realistic.[00:16:18] <JonathanThompson> Unless they get another comparable contract, they can't keep you, and perhaps don't need you, either.[00:16:21] *** amaurymedeiros has joined #haiku[00:16:39] <jmayfield_> my remaining time there is secure[00:16:57] <jmayfield_> its worth it for me to stay[00:17:06] <JonathanThompson> I wish I knew what to expect of the job market in the future.[00:17:09] <jmayfield_> for both me and the co[00:17:10] <jmayfield_> heh[00:17:22] <JonathanThompson> Well, in our field, being there that long is actually unusual :p[00:17:54] *** tqh has joined #haiku[00:18:13] <jmayfield_> i picked up an android device.. gonna fiddle in that world a bit in the meantime[00:20:39] <ragcsi> Kokito: gma500 :/[00:21:02] <JonathanThompson> Good thing you've got quite a bit of time for headsup, jmayfield_[00:22:05] <ragcsi> kieselsteini: bootmanager? you mean haiku's instead of grub?[00:25:26] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[00:25:58] *** tqh has quit IRC[00:28:42] *** raichoo has quit IRC[00:29:31] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[00:31:40] *** vooshy has quit IRC[00:38:36] *** Barrett has quit IRC[00:39:25] *** kieselsteini has quit IRC[00:42:03] *** aspule has joined #haiku[00:43:07] <aspule> :o[00:44:12] <aspule> Hello?[00:44:28] <OmniMancer> Hello![00:44:33] <mmadia> greetings.[00:44:47] <aspule> Wah. Hello.[00:46:12] <aspule> Out of ninety nine people on the list , only seeing two replies.. Never mind. I come to pose big question![00:46:29] <ragcsi> hello![00:46:36] <aspule> Ooh, three![00:46:37] <ragcsi> that makes it 3 :p[00:46:39] <OmniMancer> you sound like you have never been on IRC before[00:46:52] <OmniMancer> its a place where people ignore you with extreme prejudice![00:47:17] <aspule> I have, but I'm a bit rusty. Last time I used IRC was when in 1995[00:47:31] <OmniMancer> ah[00:47:44] <aspule> I'm now using Opera Chat, which I've never used before...[00:48:12] <DraX> as long as i can remember irc has been a land of idlers[00:48:37] <OmniMancer> indeed[00:48:48] <OmniMancer> only tiny channels are relatively active[00:48:58] <OmniMancer> but anyway you had a question aspule?[00:49:08] <aspule> ..and expecting every single line I write to generate at least 120 responses per sentance[00:49:29] *** dflemstr has quit IRC[00:49:41] <aspule> .. Yes. Haiku - An exciting development![00:50:14] <aspule> Beos was cool, but couldn't "cut the mustard[00:50:46] <OmniMancer> ask question![00:51:10] <aspule> however Haiku seems to have at least come up with a Supermarket brand standard (bare with me)[00:52:48] <aspule> brand of OS. With CPU's now hitting 8 core wonder machines, how far behind (in a good way - considering no one gets billions of dollars of funding) are we at this stage?[00:53:24] *** kazaa_lite has joined #haiku[00:53:40] <kazaa_lite> hi all[00:53:52] <largo> kazaa_lite: ahoy matey.[00:53:54] <aspule> Whatto![00:54:06] * largo waits to figure out what aspule is trying to say.[00:54:20] <kazaa_lite> what does that mean?[00:54:37] <kazaa_lite> which language is 'ahoy matey'?:P[00:55:05] <largo> kazaa_lite: ahoy matey is pirate language... which oddly seems fitting given your pirate software themed moniker. ;)[00:55:24] <kazaa_lite> hehehe[00:55:27] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[00:55:38] <jmayfield_> ahoj is czech, iirc[00:55:39] <kazaa_lite> how many people are actively contributing to this project?[00:55:50] <aspule> Oh. OK, how far are we in supporting, at least dual core, at least ATI Radeon, WIFI, It's entirely possible that I've logged on to the wrong channel..[00:56:41] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[00:57:05] <kazaa_lite> how can i download the source code of haiku?[00:57:32] <aspule> "how can i download the source code of haiku?" - Web site?[00:57:48] <kazaa_lite> cannot see the link to download source?[00:57:54] <DraX> kazaa_lite: http://www.haiku-os.org/development[00:57:59] <kazaa_lite> errr... sorry for '?'[00:58:07] <kazaa_lite> its 12:01AM in london[00:58:13] <DraX> http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/get-source[00:59:12] <kazaa_lite> DraX: how many people are actively contributing to this project?[00:59:25] <aspule> "its 12:01AM in london" - Just about time to meet up in Waterloo Station for some dirty rave!!![00:59:37] <DraX> kazaa_lite: some number[00:59:41] <DraX> *shrug*[00:59:56] <kazaa_lite> aspule: hehehe..... what are your plans for tomorrow?[01:00:54] <aspule> Wake up, go to work. Or not! I'm not in London, but I encourage you none the less![01:01:03] <kazaa_lite> DraX: sorry found sounding a bit stupid.... but just trying to quickly get the idea of current state of the project and see if i could be of any help[01:01:32] <DraX> kazaa_lite: there is always room for help[01:01:37] <kazaa_lite> aspule: cool[01:03:01] <kazaa_lite> DraX: ok.... i thiink instead of looking for some quick start, i think i should spend some time to look around things and then discuss things... it would be definitely annoying for you to answer any random thoughts drooping out of my head[01:04:29] <aspule> kazaa_lite: Yes. Good point, I'm nothing to do with the project and am probably hoping they'll do the same for me.[01:05:05] <kazaa_lite> hehehe[01:05:16] <aspule> I would love to see Haiku just suddenly become the new Linux[01:07:02] * kazaa_lite downloading the code.... i wish it is very very small:P[01:07:04] <ragcsi> god, i hope it won't become anything like a linux :p[01:07:13] <aspule> A few weeks ago me parents pooter had a bit of a Window faliure. Booted Haiku off a CD and fixed the three random DLL's and bonza![01:07:58] <aspule> ragcsi Yes, I know what you mean, but image Haiku install, Linux hardware support![01:08:31] <aspule> "Image" I meant "imagine"[01:10:21] <ragcsi> actually, my gma 500 performs better on haiku than on linux :p[01:11:58] <kazaa_lite> has usb support been implemented on haiku?[01:12:27] <aspule> ragcsi Sweet! I've not bothered to install Linux (for the obvious reasons) on my newish PC.[01:13:18] <kazaa_lite> is there some list of applications that have been ported to haiku?[01:13:49] <aspule> kazaa_lite: There's an entire web site...[01:14:22] <aspule> www.haikuware.com[01:14:38] <DraX> ports are not generally what haiku needs, at least for gui apps[01:14:51] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[01:14:55] <DraX> new native apps that do things in the haiku/beos way and take advantage of the awesome is what's desireable[01:15:50] <OmniMancer> so what did he ask?[01:15:57] <kazaa_lite> ahan[01:15:59] <mmadia> ragcsi : Haiku's VESA mode is very effecient.[01:16:02] <l_n> mmadia: jam -q -j2 install-haiku (usually. other times it's jam -q install-haiku)[01:16:17] <kazaa_lite> OmniMancer: All sorts of information is helpful to me[01:16:37] <mmadia> l_n : you can try that pastebin -- it's pretty much the same, just better organized.[01:16:37] <largo> aspule: well, those things you mention are progressing. there is a fair amount of early wifi support, but WEP and WPA etc is still in the works... video is well supported as VESA currently, but without more specific 3D support or vendor specific support that I know of... SMP is working fine and being improved on for more cores etc... (I run a hyper threaded quad core system)[01:16:48] <DraX> wep works[01:16:50] <DraX> *cough*[01:17:27] <mmadia> has anyone tested that script DraX?[01:17:33] <largo> aspule: I also have a Radeon HD 4870 X2 (2GB) in here... which is probably vastly overkill as it's only using it for VESA.. but it does full color 1600x1200 quite nicely. :)[01:17:38] <DraX> mmadia: not that i know of :([01:17:46] *** Kroki has quit IRC[01:19:33] <OmniMancer> so what did aspule actually ask?[01:20:28] *** Animal-X has quit IRC[01:21:20] <largo> (7:59:20 PM) aspule: Oh. OK, how far are we in supporting, at least dual core, at least ATI Radeon, WIFI, It's entirely possible that I've logged on to the wrong channel..[01:21:24] <aspule> All in the last 35seconds: I get that it'll be a long time before you catch up with M$f**k & SpaxkOSX, and I am still amazed that you guy's keep hammering on, but (OmniMancer) how long (if you could put a timescale on this kind of thing) would it become a viable option for people to switch...[01:22:34] <mmadia> well, you can test it and decide what's missing in order for you to switch, aspule.[01:22:44] <mmadia> ... as everyone's OS needs are different.[01:22:48] <aspule> ...from using the corroded, crashable pointlessly overloaded OS I use now (Windows), and start to use Haiku as my main?[01:23:57] <largo> aspule: try out a nightly build Live-CD or something. :)[01:24:08] <largo> http://haiku-files.org/cd/[01:24:15] <OmniMancer> aspule: In my opinion the major barrier to people moving OS is lack of software[01:24:16] <DraX> honestly i have a list of musts, and really only one of them involves hardware and the hardware support part of it is done[01:24:34] <OmniMancer> unfortunately this is a thing that prevents itself from changing[01:25:09] <aspule> The only, so far problem with Haiku is that A) It's not fully hardware integrated, and thus B) not fully supported by blah blah & blah.[01:25:22] <aspule> DraX! I have to say before[01:25:29] <aspule> you read the[01:25:42] <OmniMancer> because devs make software for what people use so unless people move they won't change the platform they dev for[01:25:42] <largo> aspule: what do you mean by not fully hardware integrated?[01:25:42] <jmayfield_> down with blah blah & blah![01:26:01] <OmniMancer> you do not need 3d acceleration to use an OS[01:26:01] <aspule> last post that I fully support EVERYTHING you are doing!!![01:26:06] <mmadia> aspule : the fact that you don't realize that Haiku supports multi-core (and hyper-threading) does not help your generalize statements.[01:26:17] <aspule> You guy's are just wonderful![01:27:10] <OmniMancer> haiku probably makes better use of multicore/SMP than any other OS[01:27:17] <aspule> mmadia - Ooh does it?[01:27:23] <largo> aspule: I have an intel i7 965EE quad core hyper threaded 3.2ghz with 6gb ddr333 ram and aside from not addressing half my ram (due to current 32bit limits), it used all my cores just fine.... it used my 802.11N wifi right "out of the box"... it started up in full color 1600x1200 right "out of the box".... it saw all my drives just fine... "right out of the box" (a mix of SATA and ATA) etc...[01:27:25] <OmniMancer> YESSSSSSS[01:27:49] <mmadia> and if you took the time to read some faqs or test it (even in qemu, vbox, vmware) you would know.[01:27:53] <largo> aspule: so what do you mean by "not fully hardware integrated" ?[01:28:10] <OmniMancer> he probably means what we lack aero :P[01:28:34] <mmadia> largo : it doesn't matter what he means -- he clearly doesn't know what Haiku has nor is capable of.[01:28:35] *** anirudhnair has quit IRC[01:28:54] <OmniMancer> indeed :P[01:28:54] *** Nozy has quit IRC[01:28:56] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmadia[01:29:11] <largo> I'm just trying to help correct that. ;)[01:29:20] <aspule> Hold up!!![01:30:05] <aspule> My ATI card didn't work at all. Turn off 'n' plug in my NVidia card and no problem[01:30:25] <OmniMancer> does your ATI support vesa?[01:30:37] *** OlaHughson has quit IRC[01:30:49] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[01:31:33] <aspule> On an AGP, Christ! The things got more numbers the John, Luke and Jeffery put together!.[01:31:38] <aspule> Anyway!!![01:33:59] <OmniMancer> try haiku then make a judgement on how long it will be till you can use it[01:34:21][01:34:57] <OmniMancer> haiku is a free OS[01:35:00] <largo> aspule: pay for an official license? it's free.[01:35:11] <OmniMancer> AFAIK there will never exist an official license[01:35:25] <aspule> 'OmniMancer try haiku then make a judgement on how long it will be till you can use it" - I started using Beos and it was great! then Beos went away and then nothing..[01:35:34] <mmadia> aspule : http://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq[01:35:34] <largo> aspule: have you done any research at all on this? or did you just try out the "Alpha1" ?[01:35:40] <ragcsi> (send me $120 on paypal to get on official license)[01:35:44] <ragcsi> j/k[01:35:48] *** joeyadams has joined #haiku[01:35:56] <largo> aspule: read the FAQ, and then try out the latest nightly build CD like I said. THEN come ask questions. :)[01:36:07] <largo> http://haiku-files.org/cd/[01:36:14] <aspule> ...then Haiku came along and I got exited...[01:36:31] <l_n> mmadia: what pastebin?[01:36:37] <OmniMancer> if you absolutely want to pay money then perhaps donate or put money on a bounty for some feature you desire[01:36:37] <aspule> ...then Haiku hit (i think) a stalling point...[01:36:45] <largo> aspule: well that's good. :) but you're getting a little ahead of yourself with the questions. ;)[01:36:49] <OmniMancer> haiku is still being developed[01:36:55] <ragcsi> stalling point?[01:36:59] <OmniMancer> its not finished yet[01:37:04] <aspule> ...and now I simply ask (headbutts a desk) !!![01:37:10] <ragcsi> i heard of haiku a few months ago[01:37:10] <aspule> I KNOW !!!!![01:37:12] <ragcsi> a very few months ago[01:37:14] <mmadia> l_n : http://haiku.pastebin.com/sPQ0kqWJ[01:37:26] <OmniMancer> and also the OS dev team is not able to write all software that runs on it...[01:37:26] <ragcsi> since that, wifi support[01:37:28] <aspule> HELLLLLLLP[01:37:29] <ragcsi> with native browser[01:37:31] <ragcsi> and stuff :p[01:37:42] <OmniMancer> aspule: in short we cannot tell you as we don't know[01:37:52] <OmniMancer> it took 9 years to release the alpha :P[01:38:38] <aspule> ok. I'm sure you'll do it. I hope you'll do it[01:39:17] <OmniMancer> however it is largely usable so far[01:39:28] <aspule> The day you do it (whatever it is i'm expecting) I'll give you another hundred pounds![01:39:33] <OmniMancer> it just lacks software mostly I think[01:39:47] <aspule> That's the big problem[01:40:03] <OmniMancer> however software is not what the OS devs provide :/[01:40:26] <aspule> No, but a rigid API is...[01:40:31] <OmniMancer> and since windows is the most used OS all major devs and even hobbyists develop for windows, and also to a lesser extend linux[01:40:50] <OmniMancer> the API is still compatible with the BeOS one I believe[01:41:02] <OmniMancer> although it may still change since it does need some improvements[01:41:05] <ragcsi> im actually here to get familiar with haiku and then get on app coding :p[01:41:07] <jmayfield_> i don t know anybody the devs specifically for windows[01:41:23] <mmadia> the GCC2 API is stable.[01:41:52] <OmniMancer> jmayfield: I mean that all commercial devs are not going to target haiku since they won't see the gain in doing so.[01:41:53] <mmadia> *ABI i mean.[01:42:51] <aspule> Any Delphi complier available on Haiku?[01:42:57] <aspule> Or BASIC[01:43:05] <aspule> Or just C++[01:43:09] <largo> by the way... when I run the installer from the CD on the latest nightly build... the languages list on the left has a ton of German entries, a ton of English, and several of some of the others etc.... is it supposed to be like that? :( it seems very wrong.[01:43:41] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[01:44:03] *** Nozy has quit IRC[01:44:55] <l_n> aspule: i got clisp to compile, but forgot what i did...[01:45:09] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[01:46:34] <aspule> l_n: aspule: i got clisp to compile, but forgot what i did... Indicative of a good night out?[01:47:24] <l_n> no.. days of change this...change that... forget what this was when you changed that... :P[01:47:41] *** personian has quit IRC[01:48:14] <mmadia> `hg init .`[01:48:29] <mmadia> learn it, use it, love it. ;)[01:48:47] <aspule> What? Changed :p for :o and then deleted ;) and just used :'([01:49:07] <l_n> something like that.[01:50:44] <l_n> that's not as bad as me forgetting to tarball the edited source trees of stuff i was working on and re-init'ing the partition..[01:52:07] <aspule> But anyway, I seem to have gotten into arguments that I didn't have any intention of getting into... ... and hadn't planned on getting out of!!! But anywhoo, Haiku programmers KEEP AT IT!!!!! You guy's are the best! I will keep of following until my feet get sore or mind chafed!!! Good Night Alllllll!!!!!=====------![01:53:06] <aspule> Where's the button to exit????[01:53:15] <l_n> ...far too excitable that one.[01:53:23] <l_n> aspule: cmd-w[01:53:27] *** aspule has left #haiku[01:54:22] *** aspule has joined #haiku[01:54:56] <ragcsi> sigh[01:54:57] <aspule> Yup, that worked...[01:55:07] <ragcsi> still can't get grub to load haiku[01:55:15] <ragcsi> (or, can't get haiku to load from grub)[01:55:38] *** aspule has left #haiku[01:55:59] *** aspule has joined #haiku[01:56:01] *** aspule has left #haiku[01:56:07] <l_n> ...[01:57:10] <OmniMancer> ragcsi: what part isn't working?[01:57:47] <ragcsi> i have no idea, i select haiku from the grub menu and all i get is a black screen[01:57:58] <ragcsi> with the cursor flashing in the corner[01:58:01] <l_n> is the partition bootable?[01:58:14] <ragcsi> yes[01:58:35] <l_n> did you install the bootloader to the partition?[01:59:37] *** personian has joined #haiku[02:03:47] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[02:03:49] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[02:04:12] <ragcsi> hmm[02:04:23] <ragcsi> what bootloader to which partition[02:04:54] <l_n> the haiku bootloader to the haiku partition[02:04:59] <l_n> the one that you have to chainload[02:06:59] <ragcsi> was that the write boot sector button on the installer gui[02:07:11] <ragcsi> or i have to do that manually?[02:07:30] *** amaurymedeiros has quit IRC[02:08:32] *** Nozy has quit IRC[02:08:53] *** judgen has quit IRC[02:09:03] <largo> ragcsi: I'm guessing you selected the wrong partition.[02:09:12] <largo> ragcsi: that same thing happened to me when I got it wrong. :)[02:09:27] <largo> ragcsi: do you know which partition on which disk it is?[02:09:36] <ragcsi> yep[02:09:51] <ragcsi> double checked it[02:10:02] <ragcsi> did fdisk -l from ubuntu, and ls from grub[02:10:04] <largo> ragcsi: in Grub the first number is the actual number of the disk, counting from 1. so the 2nd disk would be "2". but the partitions are counted from 0.[02:10:07] <ragcsi> so im a hundred percent sure[02:10:19] <largo> so the 3rd partition would actually be "2" also.[02:10:27] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[02:10:37] <largo> ragcsi: and which disk/part was it from fdisk?[02:10:57] <ragcsi> sda3[02:11:07] <largo> so it would be 1,2[02:11:31] <largo> is that what you used?[02:12:36] <largo> or was it the other way around? ;)[02:12:38] * largo double checks.[02:12:51] <ragcsi> hmm[02:13:03] <ragcsi> the ls command at grubs command line[02:13:13] <ragcsi> doesn't even list anything like that[02:13:36] <ragcsi> it says hd0, hd0,5 hd0,3 and hd0,1[02:13:40] <largo> ah, the other way around.[02:13:44] <largo> so you'd be 0,3[02:13:45] <largo> sorry.[02:13:49] <ragcsi> yeah[02:14:23] <largo> menuentry "Haiku" { set root=(hd2,3) chainloader +1 }[02:14:34] <ragcsi> ls (hd0,3) says: partition hd0,3 Filesystem type befs, label Haiku[02:14:39] <ragcsi> so its definitely the one[02:14:47] <largo> menuentry "Haiku" {[02:14:47] <largo> set root=(hd2,3)[02:14:47] <largo> chainloader +1[02:14:47] <largo> }[02:14:52] <largo> that's my Grub entry...[02:14:59] <ragcsi> yep, mine is the same but with 0,3[02:15:00] <largo> which version of Grub are you using? the 1.97b4 ?[02:15:05] <ragcsi> yes[02:15:44] <largo> which version of Haiku?[02:15:47] <ragcsi> also, i have tried overwriting the mbr with bootman[02:15:55] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[02:15:57] <ragcsi> so haiku booted just fine[02:16:04] <ragcsi> but i couldnt access my linux that way[02:16:13] <ragcsi> so reinstalled grub, and its still the same black screen[02:16:18] <ragcsi> latest nightly haiku[02:16:23] <largo> weird.[02:16:53] <ragcsi> anyway, i hate grub2[02:17:02] <ragcsi> probably just gonna revert to an older grub[02:17:09] <ragcsi> and try it that way :/[02:17:26] <ragcsi> do you think the nightly build might have to do with it?[02:18:47] <mmadia> iirc, grub2's configuration is different than grub(1)'s[02:18:53] <largo> not sure... I haven't run a nightly on my actual hardware in like 2 weeks or so?[02:19:02] <ragcsi> yeah, i liked grub1s way more[02:19:02] <largo> mmadia: yes, it is.[02:20:05] <ragcsi> hmm[02:20:40] *** Nozy has quit IRC[02:20:47] <ragcsi> gonna download alpha1[02:21:33] *** petterhj- has quit IRC[02:24:00] *** martinhpedersen has quit IRC[02:24:17] *** martinhpedersen has joined #haiku[02:25:22] *** martinhpedersen is now known as labatec[02:25:51] *** labatec is now known as martinhpedersen[02:26:19] * martinhpedersen is away (Disconnected from bouncer...)[02:28:13] <ragcsi> hmmmmm[02:28:53] <ragcsi> i might know the cause[02:29:16] <ragcsi> now that i look at it, fdisk actually says that several partitions "do not end on cylinder boundary"[02:29:33] <ragcsi> gonna give gparted a try to fix that[02:29:59] <ragcsi> i acutally resized an ext4 partition to get some free space for the befs[02:30:06] <largo> anyone else running Haiku in a VM, or on a multi-core system? (4+ virtual cores or more)[02:30:29] <largo> I'm having a problem where the more cores I enable in Virtualbox, the worse my audio performance.[02:30:41] <mmadia> Ingo runs on an i7[02:30:43] <largo> I'm trying to play an MP3, and with only 1 core enabled it plays just fine.[02:31:06] <largo> at 4 cores it skips quite noticeably.... and at 6 cores it's really horrible.[02:31:26] <Skipp_OSX> largo: so how many physical cores do you have?[02:31:32] <largo> http://www.miaowmusic.com/mp3/Miaow-03-Lentement.mp3[02:31:36] <largo> that's the track I'm testing with.[02:31:47] <largo> Skipp_OSX: 4 physical cores. hyper-threaded.[02:31:55] <largo> the OS's see it as 2x the # of cores.[02:32:50] <Skipp_OSX> largo: okay so, you should be able to emulate at least 4 cores then without suffering... but perhaps it could be VirtualBox that is causing the problem, not Haiku[02:33:00] * martinhpedersen is away (Disconnected from bouncer...)[02:33:18] <largo> Skipp_OSX: I don't remember having this problem before.... running even 8 cores.[02:33:26] <largo> (virtually)[02:33:32] <largo> let me try an older nightly.[02:34:03] *** noldsel has joined #haiku[02:36:43] <Skipp_OSX> I can't even get Haiku to boot on qemu with -smp = 4 (I have 2 cores)[02:37:09] <largo> I don't notice a problem on nightly r35893.[02:37:30] <largo> but it's very noticeable on 35914.[02:37:36] <OmniMancer> largo: In my experience sound doesn't work well in VBox[02:37:39] <largo> identical configs on both.[02:38:11] <largo> OmniMancer: something seems to have changed in recent nightlies to affect it.[02:38:20] <saivert> using the OpenSound drivers?[02:38:23] <largo> I wasn't having a problem in earlier builds, regardless of the number of cores...[02:38:29] <largo> saivert: no.[02:38:43] <largo> just whatever the default sound is.[02:38:58] <saivert> probably not a good idea to use more virtual cores than actual physical cores[02:39:06] <saivert> if that is even possible[02:39:20] <largo> anyway... I wasn't having a problem before... even setting it to 8 cores (which you can do with a hyperthreaded quad core just fine).[02:39:46] <saivert> well I'm not talking hyperthreading cores[02:39:49] <largo> but with the recent nightlies the sound has gone skippy... and it seems to deteriorate with the addition of cores.[02:39:52] <saivert> I'm talking the number of cores you assign to the VM[02:40:03] <saivert> that should not exceed the total threads of your HOST CPU[02:40:25] <largo> saivert: virtualbox sees my system as having 8 PHYSICAL cores.[02:40:34] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[02:40:35] <largo> so I'm not exceeding anything.[02:40:37] <saivert> yes which is what quad + HT gives you[02:40:44] <saivert> so you are fine in that regard[02:40:52] <largo> which is what I've been saying.[02:40:53] <Skipp_OSX> yes, so, 4 is a safe bet, 8 is still good[02:41:08] <largo> I even turned it down to 4 to leave myself room in the host OS in case Haiku went nuts.[02:41:11] <saivert> I was just giving out advice that wasn't needed then[02:41:12] <largo> which happened once. :P[02:41:16] <saivert> go me![02:41:39] <saivert> maybe I should start being captain obvious as well. HEY the water is wet[02:41:48] <largo> I just turned it back up to 6 a bit ago to see how it would affect the audio problem and it made it a LOT worse.[02:41:55] <largo> I turned it back down to 1 and the sound was perfect.[02:42:00] <largo> let me try the older build with 6 cores.[02:42:08] <saivert> but I'm using vmware though[02:43:15] <Skipp_OSX> nothing promising in the svn log for that revision range[02:43:50] <OmniMancer> largo: its always been skippy and unusable for me[02:43:50] <largo> well, r35893 just puked a bit at 6 cores too...[02:44:01] <largo> I'm going to drop back and try an earlier build.[02:44:19] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[02:46:35] *** Ghostride has quit IRC[02:46:36] *** Kokito has quit IRC[02:48:09] <OmniMancer> I wonder if a laptop will ever have one of the 6 core i7s :D[02:48:55] <ragcsi> wow, i hate gparted. at the point where no actual operations are made, just planning, i accidentally resized a ~130gb partition to ~13gb, then i fixed it[02:49:11] <ragcsi> and when i hit apply, it actually shrank the fs then grew it :/[02:55:58] <l_n> hehe.. the usb humping dog amuses me greatly.[02:56:14] <JonathanThompson> o_O[02:56:32] <OmniMancer> ragcsi it is better to exit without applying changes then[02:56:41] <cherrypie> a lot of partition software works like that[02:56:51] <cherrypie> all changes you make get added to pending[02:57:06] <cherrypie> then you commit[02:57:08] <ragcsi> it didnt actually display any list of pending operations[02:57:26] <ragcsi> at least not that i saw[02:57:36] <l_n> JonathanThompson: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/japanfan/9c89/[02:58:28] * JonathanThompson shakes head[02:58:51] <cherrypie> yeah they usually only have a bit of text somewhare saying "X operations pending" or something, long time since I used gparted though... regardless something to keep in mind for future software a lot works like that[02:59:02] <l_n> i got one as a bit of a joke from my dad for christmas[02:59:19] <l_n> just found it while picking up a few things around the house.[03:00:10] <cherrypie> generally will be a menu item to cancel all pending operations somewhere on guified tools[03:00:43] <largo> well, it also looks like I as I increase the number of cores, the actual activity between the cores jumps up greatly too.... at 6 cores they're all jumping all over the place, regularly spiking between 20 and 70% or so....[03:01:48] <JonathanThompson> Amdahl's Law in effect, likely at the kernel level.[03:01:56] <JonathanThompson> Probably thrashing the caches.[03:02:03] <JonathanThompson> And ping-ponging.[03:06:09] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/haiku/smp-chatter.png[03:06:27] <largo> exact same vm doing the exact same thing.... only difference is the number of cores.[03:06:57] <mmadia> dev.haiku-os.org/newticket[03:06:59] <OmniMancer> oh[03:07:06] *** spvensko has quit IRC[03:07:20] <OmniMancer> does haiku do processor affinity?[03:07:25] <JonathanThompson> It occurs to me: what if that's a VM-only thing?[03:07:35] <largo> JonathanThompson: that's also what I'm wondering.[03:07:52] <JonathanThompson> I mean, how accurately does the VM get timing seen?[03:08:00] <largo> I can update to the latest nightly on my actual hardware and test between 1 and 8 cores on there.[03:08:02] <l_n> does anybody know exactly what the replicant graphic is supposed to be? it looks like a little brown hand to me..[03:08:47] <largo> l_n: I never really thought about it... it looked like a little coffee bean, or brown arrow head pointing down to the right or something. :P[03:08:55] <largo> l_n: I just kind of overlooked it.[03:09:33] <l_n> i thought about it being an arrow as well.. also a fountain pen nib... brown smudge... etc.[03:14:08] *** The_Ringmaster has joined #haiku[03:15:47] <l_n> hrm.. i forgot to stir my coffee again. lotsa sugar at the bottom of the cup.[03:17:06] *** personian has quit IRC[03:18:12] <largo> I kind of caffeine OD'd earlier today... so I've got a cold half pot of coffee sitting there. :([03:18:24] <largo> and now it's close to bedtime, so I shouldn't have anymore.[03:23:08] *** joeyadams has quit IRC[03:23:41] *** mmadia42 has joined #haiku[03:23:42] *** mmadia has quit IRC[03:24:17] <The_Ringmaster> a panasonic I believe[03:24:52] <The_Ringmaster> never mind that comment[03:24:54] <The_Ringmaster> LOL[03:27:10] * largo waves two fingers in front of everyone and says in a soothing voice "I saw no comment..."[03:27:58] <largo> (or probably more accurately "you saw no comment..." :( my jedi powers are weak.)[03:28:57] * The_Ringmaster puts on sunglasses and takes out a flashing device. Now you won't remember a thing[03:30:33] *** bknoedel has joined #haiku[03:31:21] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[03:31:22] *** mmadia42 has quit IRC[03:31:25] *** MrBlueSky has quit IRC[03:47:40] *** bknoedel has quit IRC[03:50:24] <l_n> largo: i almost thought you forgot to close a set of parentheses.[03:55:35] *** personian has joined #haiku[03:58:03] *** geist has joined #haiku[03:58:04] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o geist[04:00:08] * largo is off watching the latest "Ricky Gervais Show".[04:00:28] <mmadia> hi geist[04:00:42] <geist> hey he[04:00:48] <geist> had a power outage this morning[04:00:57] <geist> just got around to booting up the puter again[04:03:20] <mmadia> fun :)[04:08:02] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[04:12:43] *** wildur has quit IRC[04:19:02] *** spvensko has joined #haiku[04:29:45] <The_Ringmaster> how does haiku fair in an outage?[04:29:59] <The_Ringmaster> is bfs fault tolerant enough?[04:30:11] <mmadia> it is journaled, which helps.[04:35:21] *** Snappo has joined #haiku[04:42:50] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[04:45:50] *** kallisti6 has joined #haiku[04:46:22] * Snappo pokes mmadia with a baguette[04:54:58] <l_n> mmadia: with the nightlies including the wifi drivers now, i have to wonder if there's any real reason for me to compile haiku myself. can you think of any that might justify compiling on an ssd?[04:57:07] <mmadia> no, if only for the health of the ssd.[04:57:26] *** mmadia has quit IRC[04:58:27] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[04:59:48] <Snappo> nightlies including the wifi drivers you say[05:00:05] <Snappo> hey mmadia, how far down the road is support for broadcom wifi[05:00:11] <Snappo> any idea?[05:00:29] <DraX> there is already a broadcom driver[05:00:33] <DraX> but yoyu may need bwn instead of bwi[05:00:37] <DraX> and that's another story[05:00:39] <l_n> i'm using a bcm43xx right now[05:00:44] <l_n> :)[05:01:01] <mmadia> l_n : you should test the wep thingie :)[05:01:07] <l_n> i don't use wep.[05:01:19] <l_n> it would only confuse the others in the house.[05:01:44] <l_n> and i use any unsecured networks i find without remorse, so i would be a hypocrite if i restricted mine.[05:02:19] <l_n> (damned morals... always getting in the way of progress..)[05:04:29] <The_Ringmaster> as usual[05:06:35] *** l_n has quit IRC[05:07:05] *** l_n has joined #haiku[05:07:28] <l_n> i must remember to /count/ the number of windows && the number of times i press alt-w[05:08:09] *** kallisti6 has quit IRC[05:08:12] <Snappo> <mmadia> l_n : you should test the wep thingie :)[05:08:15] <l_n> and be sure keypresses <= (open_windows - 1)[05:08:16] <Snappo> I could test it :3[05:08:21] <Snappo> I didn't know this was around[05:08:29] <Snappo> man you guys need to blog more :V[05:08:54] <l_n> meh. blogging. irc is where real people post random thoughts. ;)[05:09:03] <Snappo> mmadia, I've been unemployed for a couple weeks ago and I have some pro blogging experience with downloadsquad[05:09:17] <Snappo> maybe I could help bring some of these things to the attention of the public[05:09:28] <Snappo> unless that's the whole point, to keep it to choice people for now[05:09:43] <Snappo> <DraX> but yoyu may need bwn instead of bwi[05:09:54] <Snappo> is there any documentation I can look at?[05:10:03] <l_n> afaik there's only one broadcom43xx driver[05:10:12] <DraX> haiku wifi is done with a freebsd compatability layer[05:10:15] <Snappo> because if I can get wifi working on my Eee PC I'm not using Ubuntu on there anymore :D[05:10:21] <DraX> freebsd recently replaced their broadcom driver bwi(4)[05:10:26] <DraX> with another bwn(4)[05:10:37] <DraX> but bwn(4) isn't easy to port to the comptability layer because it uses a new buss[05:10:39] <l_n> Snappo: all you need to do is have a hardwire net connection to d/l the firmwares via install-wifi-firmwares.sh[05:10:39] <Snappo> oh[05:10:43] <DraX> s/buss/bus/[05:11:08] <Snappo> l_n and where is that script stored?[05:11:13] <l_n> in the nightly[05:11:21] <DraX> MrSunshine looked into porting it i think[05:11:29] <l_n> /boot/system/bin/install-wifi-firmwares.sh[05:11:53] <l_n> damnit. vision needs to sort when /foo/bar/baz is a path and *not* a command.[05:12:08] <l_n> s/v.*on/irc\ clients/[05:12:47] <Snappo> that is SICK[05:13:20] <l_n> no, tubgirl was sick.[05:13:25] <l_n> :P[05:14:32] <Snappo> haha[05:14:37] <Snappo> I need to go get a nightly now[05:14:48] <Snappo> also mmadia one of my friends is whining that the nightlies don't have firefox[05:14:50] <Snappo> is this so[05:15:03] <l_n> installoptionalpackage -a BeZillaBrowser[05:15:21] <Snappo> man[05:15:31] <Snappo> is there a manual for all this cool stuff or do I have to ask in irc every time :P[05:15:54] <DraX> we need installoptionalpackage -a WebPositive :P[05:16:00] <DraX> mmadia was looking into that i think[05:16:26] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[05:17:52] <l_n> Snappo: irc == TFM[05:17:59] <l_n> at least for now.[05:18:13] <Snappo> ha[05:18:14] <Snappo> I like that[05:18:16] <l_n> oh, and that file Welcome on your haiku desktop.[05:18:29] <Snappo> haiku is so amazing ~[05:18:37] <Snappo> I would have never dreamed it would come out so well 10 years ago[05:18:47] <Snappo> it's already exceeded beos in so many way[05:18:49] <l_n> i gave up on linux about 1-1.5mo ago because of haiku.[05:18:49] <Snappo> *ways[05:18:59] <Snappo> I'll give up on Linux too if the wifi works for me[05:19:16] <l_n> and i've never even used beos (or a clone) until haiku[05:19:21] <DraX> i wish i could give up on *nix :([05:19:31] <l_n> why can't you?[05:19:46] <DraX> immediatly off the top of my head java, and openvpn[05:19:57] <Snappo> yeah Openvpn is good[05:20:02] <DraX> need both for work[05:20:12] <Snappo> that's why you just set up a home server with linux and use haiku on your terminal :)[05:20:14] <DraX> i'm not claiming they're good, or i want them, i just need them for work[05:20:21] <DraX> yeah, not the same[05:20:38] <Snappo> meh[05:20:46] <Snappo> I don't see why there couldn't be an openvpn port[05:20:53] <l_n> DraX: any luck with gnu emacs yet?[05:20:54] <Snappo> I'm suprised there isn't yet frankly[05:21:04] <DraX> l_n: actually cpr420 made an awesome discovery today[05:21:15] <l_n> und das ist?[05:21:20] <DraX> i haven't tried it yet, but looks like we can get through a build with CANNOT_DUMP set[05:21:30] <DraX> some switch to the garbage collector that makes the stars align[05:21:43] <DraX> openvpn would require a tun/tap driver[05:21:48] <DraX> which would probably be pretty easy[05:21:56] <DraX> other than that should be pretty straight forward[05:22:01] <Snappo> oh man I just realized[05:22:03] <l_n> if only we could have emacs without that damned gpl...[05:22:07] <Snappo> I can do my C learning on Haiku :D[05:22:15] <Snappo> since all I really need is an editor and GCC[05:22:50] <l_n> Snappo: i have a common lisp implementation running in haiku if you like lisp..[05:23:19] <Snappo> l_n basically, I have no programming knowledge, and I just bought a book on C[05:23:24] <Snappo> so I'm working through that[05:23:37] <l_n> Snappo: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book[05:24:20] <Snappo> oh[05:24:23] <Snappo> o_o[05:24:25] <Snappo> well then[05:25:19] <l_n> i just have to remember how in the hell i got it to compile.[05:25:51] <l_n> i actually had libsigsegv installed before i wiped my old haiku install (it was breaking self-compiled images)[05:26:18] <l_n> (not libsigsegv, the haiku install (methinks.. really, i dunno what caused the builds to hang))[05:26:43] <Snappo> I'm half expecting someone to tell me that the Gens/GS port is progressing now :P[05:26:54] <l_n> the what?[05:27:37] <l_n> DraX: was that using stable emacs release or repository code?[05:28:13] <DraX> repository code, stable emacs doesn't have cedet[05:28:15] <DraX> so may actually work[05:28:28] <DraX> without the magical gc switch[05:29:29] <l_n> Snappo: you have heard of tinyurl, nicht wa?[05:30:18] <Snappo> ha yeah I have[05:30:24] <Snappo> sorry I didn't realize I was on Twitter :V[05:32:52] <l_n> that was so wrong...[05:33:26] * l_n thinks all of the servers hosting twitter need to have their hdd's spun up until they catch fire and the entire server farm is destroyed.[05:34:22] <Snappo> hey now[05:34:44] <Snappo> maybe I'll learn lisp and make a twitter client on Haiku[05:34:47] <Snappo> just to piss you off :V[05:35:01] <DraX> there is a twitter client for haiku[05:35:10] <DraX> HaikuTwitter by martinhpedersen :)[05:35:13] <Snappo> oh[05:35:14] <Snappo> :P[05:35:20] <Snappo> Man Haiku is so great <3[05:35:23] <Snappo> I just can't get over it[05:35:25] <DraX> http://code.google.com/p/haikutwitter/[05:38:08] <Snappo> I wonder, is anyone working on an ARM port of Haiku?[05:38:36] <Snappo> because now that I think about it, the main thing people whine about when it comes to non-x86 is lack of flash support and such[05:38:42] <Snappo> but Haiku doesn't have flash anyway :P[05:38:43] <Snappo> so no loss[05:38:54] <l_n> gnash has been ported.[05:39:31] <l_n> and the haiku stuff has been merged into the gnash trunk[05:39:42] <Snappo> well fair enough but I just mean support for the official flash plugin[05:39:58] <l_n> it'd be nice if autotools' config.guess could be permanently updated to include haiku[05:40:08] <Snappo> at any rate, all I'm saying is Haiku on x86 wouldn't be that different than haiku on another arch[05:40:14] <Snappo> except for no BeOS binary support[05:40:20] <Snappo> x86 binary I mean[05:40:28] <Snappo> also, remember this :P http://www.osnews.com/story/3692[05:41:50] <Snappo> I remember going to the yellowtab site almost every week when it was still vapor ware[05:42:13] <Snappo> hey does Haiku support USB mass storage?[05:45:23] <Snappo> hey which build do you think I should get for least amount of headaches l_n[05:45:34] <Snappo> gcc2, gcc4 hybrid, or gcc2 hybrid[05:45:39] *** CIA-50 has quit IRC[05:45:41] <Snappo> I'm leaning toward gcc4 hybrid[05:46:12] *** codedread has joined #haiku[05:46:25] <luroh> get the gcc2 hybrid[05:46:37] <Snappo> why's that luroh[05:47:10] <luroh> that's the official release flavour, probably least headaches if you want to run old beos software[05:47:41] <Snappo> ok[05:48:41] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[05:49:52] *** CIA-45 has joined #haiku[05:51:43] *** Andrius has quit IRC[05:51:55] <codedread> quick question from a noob: I've got VMWare Fusion and tried out Alpha 1 and the nightly[05:52:05] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[05:52:13] <codedread> is there a vm of haiku that contains WebPositive yet?[05:53:47] <mmadia> codedread : not yet.[05:53:51] <codedread> and also, what are the difference between the hybrid and none here http://haiku-files.org/vmware/[05:53:54] <codedread> mmadia: ok[05:54:11] <mmadia> mmlr.dyndns.org has a link for the newest revisions of Web+[05:54:30] <codedread> i can't seem to get network access yet either in my haiku vms[05:54:34] <mmadia> this explains the hybrids : http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/gcc-hybrid[05:54:36] <l_n> but you'll need to build svn haiku for web+ because of stippi's work to the app_server[05:54:39] <codedread> (only localhost appears when i type ifconfig)[05:55:01] <mmadia> l_n : today's nightly is new enough for now.[05:55:15] <codedread> this is just a half-hour diversion for the night, not interested in building atm[05:55:18] <l_n> mmadia: hrm.. didn't realize the nightly had already been built.[05:55:30] <l_n> oh.. it's 01:00[05:55:49] <mmadia> *35914 i mean[05:58:29] <l_n> the Locale prefpane has angered me. it won't set my clock to 24hr format.[05:58:46] * l_n glares at the clock laughing at him in its 12hr format.[06:05:28] <l_n> good night. time to go to bed. i'm sure my wife and kid are both passed out by now.[06:06:56] *** Ola has joined #haiku[06:07:05] <l_n> codedread: check the network prefpane.. make sure your interface is set to dhcp.[06:07:22] *** Ola is now known as OlaHughson[06:07:24] <l_n> (more importantly, make sure it's there :P)[06:07:25] <codedread> l_n: you're talking about in haiku or in vmware?[06:07:32] <l_n> codedread: haiku[06:07:43] <codedread> yeah, there's nothing there :([06:08:03] <codedread> don't have this problem with other vms (ubuntu, win)[06:08:10] <l_n> do you have a usb stick/sd card lying around you could write the image to?[06:08:27] <codedread> write the image to?[06:08:42] <l_n> run it on real hardware by booting from usb or sd card[06:08:51] <codedread> ah, no not really[06:08:59] <OmniMancer> codedread: what network interface is it set to?[06:09:14] <codedread> OmniMancer: there are no adapters listed in the network preferences[06:09:21] <OmniMancer> in vmware![06:09:25] <codedread> from the vmware side, Network is set to NAT[06:09:34] <codedread> which is what my other vms do[06:09:34] <l_n> okay.. i really need to sleep now.[06:09:38] <l_n> gutenacht.[06:09:43] <codedread> l_n: good night, thanks[06:09:50] <OmniMancer> no what adapter is vmware set to![06:10:12] <codedread> in vmware, the Network Adapter has three options "Share the Mac's network connection (NAT)"[06:10:15] <codedread> (which is what I have)[06:10:22] <codedread> "Connect directly to the physical network (Bridged)"[06:10:28] <OmniMancer> sigh[06:10:34] <codedread> "Create a pirvate network available only to the Mac (Host Only)"[06:10:42] <OmniMancer> if vmware won't let you change the emulated device then it is EVIL[06:10:57] <codedread> sorry, don't understand[06:11:08] <OmniMancer> I want to know what network card vmware is showing to the vm[06:12:04] <codedread> those are the only network-related settings i can see[06:12:20] <codedread> this is VMWare Fusion, not sure if I mentioned that[06:14:19] <codedread> reading http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/running_haiku_vmware_mac now[06:15:24] <OmniMancer> because you must usually use an intel pro 1000 ethernet adapter in a vm[06:15:49] *** kallisti6 has joined #haiku[06:20:56] *** OlaHughson has quit IRC[06:22:07] *** codedread has quit IRC[06:22:23] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[06:22:39] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[06:25:41] *** MadEchidna has joined #haiku[06:26:00] <MadEchidna> hey what's the command to install bezilla again?[06:26:02] <MadEchidna> I'm in haiku now[06:26:30] *** mmadia has quit IRC[06:26:40] *** personian has quit IRC[06:33:01] *** spvensko has quit IRC[06:33:35] <MadEchidna> so I ran the wifi firmware installer[06:33:40] <MadEchidna> now what <_<[06:35:01] <DraX> now you contemplate your existence[06:37:08] <MadEchidna> ha[06:37:10] <MadEchidna> no seriously[06:37:15] <MadEchidna> do I just reboot and cross my fingers or what[06:43:45] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[06:47:11] *** prOSy has joined #haiku[06:49:26] *** largo1 has joined #haiku[06:50:54] *** largo has quit IRC[06:54:39] *** MadEchidna has quit IRC[06:55:45] *** The_Ringmaster has quit IRC[06:57:26] *** MadEchidna has joined #haiku[06:59:08] <MadEchidna> fff[06:59:16] <MadEchidna> I have a bcm 4328[06:59:22] <MadEchidna> no haiku wifi for me[07:02:00] <MadEchidna> so what do you guys think about package managers in Haiku[07:02:09] <MadEchidna> is it the way to go or no (for R1 I mean)[07:02:20] <MadEchidna> on one hand it's nice to be able to keep everything up to date[07:02:49] <MadEchidna> but at the same time there's something to be said for a stable base and static binaries[07:08:37] <OmniMancer> well I say the package manager would have to actually be good if it existed, and while you may have the option of adding your own repos to it, the official haiku repo should be carefully maintained to make sure all the packages work and are actually useful.[07:13:49] <MadEchidna> it just bothers me how package based OSs break compatibility[07:14:02] <MadEchidna> you could take a beos app on a disk to someone else's house and it would run[07:14:06] <MadEchidna> not so much in this world[07:16:37] <MadEchidna> I like how OSX does it[07:16:44] <MadEchidna> self contained blobs of software[07:16:53] <MadEchidna> and one strong steady os api[07:22:58] *** CK|iPod has joined #haiku[07:39:03] <jmayfield_> uh.. ok[07:46:42] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[07:49:55] *** essiene has joined #haiku[07:50:31] *** CK|iPod_ has joined #haiku[07:50:32] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC[07:50:33] *** CK|iPod_ is now known as CK|iPod[07:56:33] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[08:02:48] *** essiene has quit IRC[08:02:57] *** Kokito has quit IRC[08:03:11] *** essiene has joined #haiku[08:04:32] *** essiene has quit IRC[08:04:55] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC[08:05:20] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[08:06:56] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[08:15:01] * JonathanThompson laughs[08:15:07] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[08:20:55] *** sprma has joined #haiku[08:23:46] *** kitallis has quit IRC[08:26:52] *** impy has joined #haiku[08:28:36] *** impy has joined #haiku[08:30:15] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[08:30:47] *** The123king has joined #haiku[08:31:26] * martinhpedersen is away (Disconnected from bouncer...)[08:33:35] *** tqh has joined #haiku[08:36:09] *** tqh has quit IRC[08:39:49] *** tqh has joined #haiku[08:40:24] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[08:44:33] *** tqh has quit IRC[08:46:03] *** Advant- has joined #haiku[08:46:46] *** Advant has quit IRC[08:47:22] *** vooshy has quit IRC[08:48:35] *** stargater has joined #haiku[08:48:39] <stargater> moin[08:51:02] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[08:51:37] *** nickfromdc has joined #haiku[08:52:54] *** nickfromdc has quit IRC[08:53:14] *** nickfromdc has joined #haiku[08:55:22] *** fhein has joined #haiku[08:58:13] *** largo1 is now known as largo[09:01:32] <vooshy> largo: hi[09:01:42] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[09:01:53] <largo> vooshy: re :)[09:02:16] <largo> my gf came home at 3am and woke me up. :/ after ~3.5 hours of sleep.[09:02:22] <largo> so I'm back in front of the computer. ;)[09:02:32] *** nickfromdc has quit IRC[09:02:58] <vooshy> i wont ask what your gf was doing at 3am[09:03:19] <vooshy> you still looking for a bleeding edge Web+?[09:05:13] <largo> did you get a newer one to build? :o[09:05:23] <vooshy> www.vooshy.co.uk/haiku/web+/WebPositive-r334.zip[09:05:37] <largo> awesome, thanks. :)[09:06:01] <vooshy> www.vooshy.co.uk/haiku/web+/acid3.png i cant believe how far its come along[09:06:11] <largo> :O !![09:06:17] <largo> yeah, I'm really excited about it...[09:06:33] <largo> it's so awesome to have a "native" browser that's so clean and fast and good looking. :D[09:06:51] <largo> and modern![09:07:21] <vooshy> oh i threw in haikulauncher too[09:08:12] <largo> :D[09:08:35] <largo> I'm probably going to update my actual native hardware Haiku install tonight...[09:08:48] <largo> to test out the SMP "chatter" issue...[09:09:03] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/haiku/smp-chatter.png[09:09:20] <largo> I want to see if I can replicate that straight on the actual hardware and not just in a VM.[09:10:04] <largo> that just seems like WAY too much jibba-jabba comin' from the CPUs. ;)[09:10:35] <largo> it's so bad that as I add more cores, the system performance actually degrades... which is the opposite of the effect I'd expect.[09:12:49] <vooshy> largo: i suppose their should be some conversation between cpu's but it does seem alot for playing an mp3[09:17:35] *** cryptic has quit IRC[09:18:56] <largo> well yeah, considering that's what it looks like idle as well.[09:19:07] *** cryptic has joined #haiku[09:21:06] *** helf2 has joined #haiku[09:21:10] *** helf has quit IRC[09:21:29] *** helf|laptop has quit IRC[09:21:29] *** helf2 is now known as helf|laptop[09:22:29] *** helf has joined #haiku[09:24:29] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[09:24:35] <OmniMancer> I am no expert but it looks almost like some task is jumping between all the CPUs?[09:29:01] *** stargater has quit IRC[09:29:06] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/haiku/smp-chatter2.png[09:29:20] <largo> here's a default clean boot running idle.[09:29:32] <largo> on 1 core, 4 cores, and 8 cores.[09:30:43] <largo> there is a very clear dramatic degradation of performance as you scale here. but it might just be some side effect of running it in Virtualbox.[09:30:56] <largo> so I'm going to test on the native hardware...[09:31:08] <geist> current scheduler doesn't do much with cpu affinity[09:31:40] <largo> is there a way to limit it to 4 cores on the native hardware? maybe disable 2 of the physical cores through BIOS or something?[09:31:51] <largo> I want to replicate the 1,4,8 test natively.[09:34:09] <JonathanThompson> largo: Pulse.[09:37:26] *** zardoz has joined #haiku[09:38:41] <largo> JonathanThompson: ah, brilliant. :D[09:38:54] <JonathanThompson> KISS at its finest :D[09:38:55] * largo grabs the latest nightly raw.[09:39:04] <largo> indeed. :D[09:43:48] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[09:46:31] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[09:56:46] <MrSunshine> la la la[09:57:19] <kitallis> lol singin' in the morn' sunshine eh[10:16:43] *** impy has quit IRC[10:20:34] *** noldsel has quit IRC[10:21:21] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[10:25:29] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[10:26:54] *** kieselsteini has joined #haiku[10:27:00] <largo> ok, brb... rebooting to test the SMP stuffs.[10:27:10] *** largo has left #haiku[10:27:14] <Lelldorin1> moin[10:30:30] *** fhein has quit IRC[10:31:04] <kieselsteini> hiho[10:35:21] *** frood has joined #haiku[10:41:03] *** vooshy has quit IRC[10:53:29] <The123king> what an anyboot image then?[10:53:55] <frood> hmm?[10:54:54] <The123king> What's anyboot?[10:55:09] <frood> The anyboot can be burned to compact discs, written directly to USB sticks, or used with QEMU[10:55:30] <The123king> Hmmm[10:55:47] <The123king> it's just i've never seen one before, is it a format Haiku has developed or what?[10:56:25] <frood> i dont know. it's the one I use though. I DD it to a usb stick in Fedora and boot from it. works great[11:02:58] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[11:03:55] <OmniMancer> no it's a trick that is done due to the cd filesystem specification[11:04:07] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[11:04:16] <OmniMancer> it specifies a bunch of free space at the beginning of the disk which is just enough to put in an MBR[11:05:00] <OmniMancer> because of that you can then have a CD image as the first part then the HDD image as the second part with the MBR in the small block of empty space at the beginning pointing to the HDD image as a partition[11:11:51] *** largo has joined #haiku[11:12:08] <The123king> Ahhhhh..., so it's technically two partitons, one for the cd image and one for the HDD image?[11:12:31] <largo> well, that was informative in a few ways.[11:12:39] <largo> (my Haiku expedition)[11:12:44] <The123king> :o[11:12:59] <frood> so how come the file sizes are the same?[11:13:04] <frood> cos of gzip magic?[11:13:20] <largo> what are you guys talking about?[11:13:24] <largo> the VMware image?[11:13:42] <frood> the anyboot image. what is it, and how it works[11:14:07] *** kazaa_lite_ has joined #haiku[11:14:25] <largo> I have no idea what the anyboot image is. :)[11:14:30] <largo> URL?[11:14:57] <The123king> http://haiku-files.org/anyboot/[11:15:26] *** kazaa_lite has quit IRC[11:15:26] *** kazaa_lite_ is now known as kazaa_lite[11:15:46] <Lelldorin1> The123king: images they are bootable[11:16:08] <largo> anyway, for those interested in my findings from my Haiku on native hardware test.... it looks like the SMP issue is just with Virtualbox... 8 cores ran like hot butter on the native hardware... perfectly. However my wifi issues are still there... totally unusable, still hard locks the system in short order, drops the connection every few seconds when it's not hard locking etc. :'([11:16:48] <frood> I replaced the wifi card in my netbook and now it runs haiku pretty sweet.[11:16:56] <Lelldorin1> The123king: any because you get there gcc2 and gcc4[11:17:02] <Lelldorin1> The123king: images[11:18:30] *** surrounder has quit IRC[11:19:08] <largo> frood: yeah... if I had the money I'd pick up a new card. :([11:19:44] <frood> wasn't too expensive iirc. but taking apart the netbook was a struggle[11:20:07] <frood> i'd love a proper wifi gui app though. i could always write one I suppose[11:23:26] *** surrounder has joined #haiku[11:27:32] <frood> does anyone else find that when they swap the ctrl and alt keys, it doesn't always persist through applications?[11:28:13] <Lelldorin1> i like the alt key[11:28:19] <Lelldorin1> dont change :-)[11:28:21] <Lelldorin1> please[11:29:37] <Lelldorin1> frood: you can change this in the keymaop settig with one click[11:29:55] <frood> yeah i do that. and then alt-tab will switch. but youstill have to ctrl-f4 to exit bezilla[11:30:00] *** Engleek has joined #haiku[11:30:06] <frood> its not consistent[11:30:54] <Lelldorin1> frood: ok only can chaged by the developers of firefox[11:31:20] <Lelldorin1> frood: you change only the system and other developers need to app a optio like this to support[11:32:43] <frood> but it's alt-f4 in all other OS's and its CTRL-F4 in Haiku. Even when you change it in the keymap setting[11:33:05] <frood> not wait. when you change it with the keymap setting, neither ctrl-f4 or alt-f4 work[11:33:14] <Lelldorin1> ah[11:34:53] <frood> i'll just stick to defaults.[11:35:02] *** sprma has quit IRC[11:35:20] <HeTo> the Firefox port isn't very well integrated, it might not notice that the setting gets changed[11:35:36] <frood> i get the same problem with Pe[11:35:40] <frood> i think it's a bug[11:36:59] <kieselsteini> HeTo: Firefox will be replaced soon with WebPositive[11:37:04] <frood> can't wait.[11:39:40] <frood> its well worth reading this user guide (http://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/contents.html) if you haven't already. so many nice little tricks[11:40:28] <Lelldorin1> frood: the same her: http://www.besly.de[11:41:20] <frood> ah nice. thanks[11:41:22] *** timezer0 has joined #haiku[11:41:41] <Lelldorin1> frood: ost of them i german but many english too[11:42:21] <Lelldorin1> ost=most[11:45:02] *** wildur has joined #haiku[11:45:06] <frood> We should set up a wiki on haiku-os.org and start correlating all this stuff. http://betips.net/ too[11:45:54] <Lelldorin1> frood: i have tried simething like this, but they want to do they own stuff.[11:46:40] <frood> an official wiki would be sensible though. i think.[11:46:45] <Lelldorin1> so you eed to wait for completing the haiku guide[11:47:28] <Lelldorin1> frood: they are wikis about haiku ad i have tried to add the weblink to the besly on it, but they say it is ot haiku only, becuase the site is beos, haiku and zeta[11:47:46] <Lelldorin1> not enough haiku stuff o it, but the most tutorials are useable for all systems[11:49:37] <Lelldorin1> all system: beos, haiku and zeta[11:51:08] <Lelldorin1> sorry my english is not good and my "n" key dont want to be useable[11:51:29] <frood> Way better than my German.[11:52:17] <Ingenu> get a new keyboard ;)[11:52:43] <Lelldorin1> Ingenu: no i dont have the money i visit begeistert next month :-)[11:53:12] <Ingenu> not all keyboards are expensive[11:53:26] <Ingenu> but then I only like naturals[11:53:34] <Ingenu> which are expensive[11:53:40] <Lelldorin1> Ingenu. was a joke, i have another one here[11:54:12] <Lelldorin1> so changeed[11:54:16] <Lelldorin1> lol[11:54:46] <Lelldorin1> nnnnnnnnn[11:54:48] <Lelldorin1> good[11:55:17] <frood> is there a HCL somewhere? If I wanted to build the perfect haiku pc?[11:56:00] <Lelldorin1> haikuware have one: http://www.haikuware.com/index.php?option=com_sobi2&Itemid=100135&lang=en&sobi2Task=usersListing but id ont know if it is good[11:58:55] <Lelldorin1> ned to buy some food, see you later[11:59:07] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[12:01:14] <OmniMancer> frood: also take into account that haiku changes a lot[12:01:57] <Ingenu> hardware support should only improve hopefully[12:02:16] <Ingenu> so a compatible computer should remain so[12:05:54] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[12:07:04] <frood> i've often thought that maybe they should pick on a netbook to fully support. of course add device drivers as they go, but ensure that that one netbook works brilliantly.[12:07:28] <frood> then users/devs could buy that netbook knowing it will always be supported and can give the best haiku has to offer[12:10:11] <cherrypie> afaik my lenovo s10 is supported well, I haven't got around to trying yet though[12:10:55] *** zardoz has quit IRC[12:13:33] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[12:14:28] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[12:16:19] *** santafe has joined #haiku[12:16:19] *** timezer0 has quit IRC[12:20:01] <frood> its similar specs to my netbook so yeah, it should be[12:20:09] <frood> i had to replace the wifi card in mine though.[12:20:28] *** korli has joined #haiku[12:20:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[12:20:51] <frood> ah you have a Broadcom BCM43xx. that'll work.[12:22:24] *** HaikuBot has joined #haiku[12:23:45] *** HaikuBot has quit IRC[12:29:16] <kieselsteini> bye guys[12:29:28] *** kieselsteini has quit IRC[12:31:05] <cherrypie> yep, ethernet and bluetooth are the only things I'm not sure on, but they're not crucial[12:31:28] <cherrypie> both broadcom also[12:31:45] <frood> i don't think theres any bluetooth support in haiku yet[12:32:57] <cherrypie> one of the google soc ppl was working on it from memory, no idea what came of it[12:36:33] <cherrypie> I've been meaning to put haiku on an sd card to have a play with it[12:37:09] <cherrypie> have it on a vm here, but it'd be kind of cool on the netbook[12:38:08] <frood> it runs painfully slow off an SD card. works ok from a usb stick though. on my netbook that is.[12:39:27] <cherrypie> I might see if I can find a decent expresscard ssd in that case[12:40:52] <frood> that'd be cool[12:41:50] <cherrypie> yeah, I don't really want to mess with the hdd, it's pretty nicely setup with winxp/mac os dual boot[12:42:23] <frood> i might see if it boots on this Dell laptop i'm using now. It has a swappable hard drive which is useful[12:42:34] <cherrypie> nice[12:42:49] <cherrypie> mine requires adventures with a screwdriver :D[12:43:03] <cherrypie> which isn't necessarily an issue, but not so convenient[12:43:15] <frood> haha yeah.[12:43:27] <frood> the expresscard ssd, if it works, would be perfect[12:43:44] <cherrypie> yep, just need to find a small one which isn't painfully slow[12:44:16] <cherrypie> 16gb or so would do the job nicely for OS experimenting[12:45:33] <frood> ohh bring on wifi wpa support[12:45:43] <frood> would make me so happy lol[12:45:52] <cherrypie> oh? no wpa support yet?[12:46:03] <frood> nah just open afaik[12:46:23] <OmniMancer> open and I think wep might work[12:46:31] <cherrypie> kk[12:46:39] <OmniMancer> wpa should be done when wifi stack is working[12:46:44] <cherrypie> cool cool[12:47:09] <cherrypie> my quota would last like 24hours if I dropped my wifi security to wep[12:47:25] <frood> which tool do you use to configure it? i'm using wlanconfig from http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/haiku-wifi/files[12:47:35] <frood> which doesnt support any encyrption[12:48:15] <cherrypie> I'm unfortunately right on the edge of a commercial area, wifi theft is rampant here[12:48:33] <frood> i locked down my home wifi to my mac address. but even thats not exactly secure. best I can do though[12:48:41] <cherrypie> and cause being in Australia, data is pricey[12:48:50] <frood> i guess i could turn off ssid broadcasting[12:49:28] <OmniMancer> frood I think there was some script ask mmadia or DraX[12:49:39] <frood> kk[12:49:40] <cherrypie> lost 3gb of data today which pissed me right off[12:50:02] <OmniMancer> cherrypie: I am in NZ[12:50:07] <cherrypie> one of the systems on the network was being hammerd by traffic from limelight networks[12:50:22] <OmniMancer> turn on mac filtering turn of ssid broadcasting[12:51:02] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[12:51:21] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[12:53:20] <cherrypie> my wifi is adequately secure atm... this was just unfortunate traffic that hit one of the housemates systems[12:54:15] <cherrypie> had to use wireshark to figure out what was going on[12:54:53] *** Kroki has joined #haiku[12:54:54] <frood> my home connection is a 3G modem :( a lost 3GB would cost me a fortune[12:55:09] *** korli has quit IRC[12:55:11] <cherrypie> ouch, yeah that'd be painful[12:56:33] <OmniMancer> owowow[13:00:37] *** dflemstr has joined #haiku[13:02:47] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[13:03:26] *** kazaa_lite has quit IRC[13:03:42] *** kazaa_lite has joined #haiku[13:07:11] *** impy has joined #haiku[13:12:55] <frood> so you can see why I'd like WPA support sometime soon[13:15:33] <OmniMancer> indeed[13:20:50] <frood> i might just use a long network cable[13:21:00] <frood> open wifi is fine for cafe's and the like[13:27:56] <saivert> how about CDMA network?[13:27:58] <OmniMancer> you can use macfiltering which is about as good as WEP[13:28:05] <saivert> like mobile broadband[13:28:18] <frood> OmniMancer, yeah that's what i'm using for now.[13:31:30] *** saivert has quit IRC[13:38:54] *** saivert has joined #haiku[13:39:58] <CIA-45> stippi * r35921 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/HyperTextView.cpp: Use the new follow link cursor for hypertext actions...[13:41:18] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[13:47:02] *** Garfield32 has joined #haiku[13:48:06] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[13:48:11] *** judgen has joined #haiku[13:48:18] *** Garfield32 has left #haiku[13:48:53] *** Kroki has quit IRC[13:54:12] *** saivert has quit IRC[13:55:31] *** kitallis has quit IRC[13:57:14] *** Kroki has joined #haiku[13:57:24] <frood> what's that?[13:58:07] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[13:59:57] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[14:01:33] *** saivert has joined #haiku[14:11:30] *** personian has joined #haiku[14:13:23] *** Advant_ has joined #haiku[14:14:23] *** MrBlueSky has joined #haiku[14:15:08] *** Advant- has quit IRC[14:15:09] *** sprma has joined #haiku[14:15:40] *** sprma has quit IRC[14:15:55] *** margiolas has joined #haiku[14:15:57] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[14:18:40] *** kirilla has quit IRC[14:19:01] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[14:19:01] *** saivert has quit IRC[14:23:32] *** Ola has joined #haiku[14:23:56] *** Ola is now known as OlaHughson[14:26:51] *** saivert has joined #haiku[14:31:36] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[14:35:54] *** saivert has quit IRC[14:36:02] *** wildur has quit IRC[14:41:07] *** frood has quit IRC[14:41:45] *** saivert has joined #haiku[14:43:58] *** stargater has joined #haiku[14:44:01] <stargater> hi[14:52:05] <kirilla> hello stargater[14:53:47] <stargater> hi kirilla[14:54:19] *** Mixer has quit IRC[14:55:17] <kirilla> stargater: you did Pairs, right?[14:55:33] <stargater> yes i did[14:55:34] <kirilla> s/did/made[14:55:45] <stargater> :-)[14:55:45] <kirilla> any more work on the way? :)[14:55:57] <stargater> on pairs ?[14:56:09] *** PasNox has quit IRC[14:56:30] <kirilla> more apps I mean[14:56:37] <stargater> yes[14:56:39] <stargater> http://www.team-maui.org/dir/projects/TicTacToe/ttt.png[14:56:54] <kirilla> ah :)[14:56:56] <stargater> i play with haiku draws[14:57:07] <stargater> why you ask ?[14:57:23] *** willll has joined #haiku[14:57:33] <kirilla> just interesting to hear what people are doing :)[14:57:55] <stargater> and i have on osdrawer 2 biger projects = artpaint and a team maui project for a burn app for haiku[14:57:59] <kirilla> I haven't followed bebits or haikuware in a very long while, so I may have missed some cool apps[14:58:10] <kirilla> cool[14:58:31] <kirilla> it would be nice to see artpaint continue[14:58:34] <stargater> what is cool apps ?[14:58:40] <kirilla> dunno[14:59:03] <kirilla> useful apps, mostly[14:59:16] <prOSy> cool apps? where ice-bears will fall too because slippy apps ?[14:59:19] <prOSy> ;-)[14:59:33] *** jan__64 has joined #haiku[14:59:41] <kirilla> heh[14:59:54] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[14:59:59] <prOSy> attention! apps are slippery when cool... or so...[15:00:02] <prOSy> ;-)[15:00:30] <kirilla> lickable interfaces you definitely should not lick! ;][15:00:30] *** saivert has quit IRC[15:01:15] <prOSy> kirilla: LOL[15:03:28] *** bradsco has quit IRC[15:03:53] <kirilla> I'm still waiting for the perfect calendar app, helping me manage the complexity of everyday life.. like watering my plants, remembering birthdays, remembering days I should absolutely -not- be late for work, holidays, etc[15:05:02] <kirilla> problem is I'm allergic to the the common interfaces.. day/week/month view[15:06:14] <kirilla> also I'm not sure a fully Tracker-based calendar is -all that- as some people make it out to be[15:06:46] <kirilla> one of these days.. :P[15:08:33] *** saivert has joined #haiku[15:08:57] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[15:12:57] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[15:14:21] <stargater> kirilla, you like a calendar app ? , ok, then write (description) what made a good calendar app[15:14:21] *** saivert has quit IRC[15:14:23] *** impy has quit IRC[15:14:41] <stargater> and a mokeup from the gui[15:14:42] <kirilla> I don't know :) I haven[15:15:00] <kirilla> I've never seen one I like :P[15:15:10] <stargater> and a list what funktion is a mast have[15:16:09] <kirilla> I will think about it[15:17:06] *** The123king1 has joined #haiku[15:17:58] *** The123king has quit IRC[15:19:44] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[15:20:09] <CIA-45> stippi * r35922 /haiku/trunk/ (11 files in 3 dirs):[15:20:09] <CIA-45> * Tweaked the thumbsize of the pointing hand cursors.[15:20:09] <CIA-45> * Repurposed the FollowLink cursor as CreateLink cursor.[15:20:09] <CIA-45> * Created a new FollowLink cursor based on a design by Justin Stressman, thanks![15:20:09] <CIA-45> It compiles and I proof-read the commit, otherwise I didn't test, yet.[15:21:38] *** saivert has joined #haiku[15:22:51] <Anarchos> is someone planning some dev around "music assisted by computer" on haiku ?[15:24:15] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[15:24:35] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[15:27:11] *** mmadia is now known as mmadia_haiku[15:27:55] *** |judgen| has joined #haiku[15:28:12] *** PieterPan has joined #haiku[15:30:24] *** judgen has quit IRC[15:30:49] <kirilla> Anarchos: No, but do you mean primarily playback of media (consumer) or musician-oriented tools?[15:31:36] <Anarchos> last one :)[15:32:05] <kirilla> it would be cool to see some activity there[15:32:08] <Anarchos> after all, we got the inherited THE media os ;)[15:32:20] <kirilla> heh[15:34:33] <Anarchos> what is this new kernel.so file about ?[15:35:10] <kirilla> where?[15:35:36] <Anarchos> "/generated/objects/haiku/x86/release/system/kernel/kernel.so"[15:43:12] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[15:44:51] *** santafe has left #haiku[15:46:30] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[15:47:52] <Anarchos> kirilla i never say a .so with kernel before[15:48:43] <kirilla> I think some code is used both in the kernel and in userland[15:49:20] <kirilla> that could be the reason for kernel.so, that code being made available to userland as a shared library[15:49:58] <kirilla> e.g. to filesystems running both in the kernel and in the UserlandFS thing[15:50:28] <stargater> anyone have a idear for write document for the haiku book ?[15:51:28] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[15:52:13] <kirilla> how to write, make changes, or ideas for new content?[15:52:17] <l_n> kirilla: and isn't one of the ideas to be able to run the haiku kernel on top of itself in userspace? that may be a reason for the lib[15:52:55] *** pgr has joined #haiku[15:53:04] <kirilla> l_n: I don't think that's the primary reason for that lib[15:53:05] <Kokito> good morning folks[15:53:09] <kirilla> hi Kokito[15:53:56] <kirilla> l_n: I don't recally anyone doing any substatial work towards a usermode kernel[15:54:05] <kirilla> err. recall[15:54:54] <mmadia_haiku> grok the sources http://haiku.it.su.se:8180/source/search?q=kernel.so[15:56:06] <kirilla> mmadia_haiku: what does it tell us?[15:56:52] <kirilla> is it for exposing parts of libc in the kernel?[15:57:00] <mmadia_haiku> some drives like mouse and keyboard need it to be built[15:57:09] <stargater> kirilla, new docu for BCursor whas nice to have on Haiku Book[15:57:34] <mmadia_haiku> maybe enough for just ensuring those drivers are using a sane kernel ?[15:58:00] <stargater> hi Kokito[15:58:18] <Kokito> hallo stargater :)[15:58:37] <kirilla> stargater: the development page says "Haiku Book (nightly builds, work in progress)", so I guess it's a matter of making patches for the text files in the subversion repository[15:59:02] <kirilla> which when commited, show up at http://api.haiku-os.org/[16:04:24] <PieterPan> I want to report a bug about my mouse trackpoint (rubber knob in the middle of the keyboard of the laptop), but first I want to gather some more information. I know how to get the syslog, but how can I get more ps2 information (I'm guessing it is ps/2)[16:04:31] *** mmadia_haiku has quit IRC[16:04:48] *** nielx has joined #haiku[16:04:55] <nielx> did anybody say 'haiku book'?[16:05:12] <kirilla> heh[16:05:52] <PieterPan> Does anyone know how I can (safely) restart the input server from a terminal?[16:06:12] <stargater> yes nielx[16:06:50] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[16:07:23] *** dakdagi has joined #haiku[16:07:34] *** kirilla has quit IRC[16:07:34] <nielx> shoot[16:07:36] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[16:08:27] <Anarchos> PieterPan /system/servers/input_server &[16:09:11] <kitallis> do we have any collection of example cpp files using the haiku api? some kinda package anywhere?[16:09:34] <stargater> nielx, how to write document for the Haiku Book ?[16:09:54] <stargater> eg. a BCursor Document whas nice to have[16:09:58] <nielx> do you know doxygen?[16:10:14] <PieterPan> Anarchos Thanks, and I suppose I should kill it before, separated with a ;[16:10:26] <stargater> i have no work with doxygen[16:11:00] <stargater> nielx, who found BHandel haiku book doxygen file ?[16:11:12] <nielx> I think I made that[16:11:22] * PieterPan tries[16:11:38] <mmadia> kitallis : not really, the best path is to find a simple application that displays the behaviour you're looking to implement.[16:11:43] <nielx> But if you document the functions for me, I can put it in a doxygen format[16:11:53] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[16:12:40] <stargater> nielx, nice but a howto why can made a ducument[16:13:05] <stargater> withput doxygen = a web tool for this whas nice to[16:13:25] <nielx> stargater: yes, but there is no such tool[16:14:25] <stargater> nielx, you see my english is not so good, but can you discutate this with other developer, who the best and fastes way is for add document for the haiku book[16:14:59] *** PieterPan has quit IRC[16:15:00] <stargater> or that the devs, add a document when some stuff is not in bebook[16:15:06] <nielx> stargater: well, go ahead, motivate them :)[16:15:14] *** PieterPan has joined #haiku[16:16:19] <stargater> nielx, :-) i see the problem,and i found no howto to write doxygen haiku book dokuments[16:16:38] <nielx> stargater: http://api.haiku-os.org/apidoc.html[16:23:03] <stargater> nielx, the haiku_book folder is missing on http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/documentation[16:23:33] <nielx> it's under trunk/docs/user[16:23:41] <nielx> (still has to be moved someday)[16:26:48] <stargater> hmm why user ?[16:27:07] <nielx> legacy[16:27:18] <stargater> developer is better and a haiku_book folder on top is better[16:27:46] <nielx> sure[16:28:01] <nielx> but since nobody is very actively working on it, it will stay where it is now[16:30:46] *** PieterPan has quit IRC[16:30:50] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[16:31:11] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[16:31:38] <stargater> nielx the minimal is work on haiku book is, copy the header and set the API as Haiku book[16:31:48] <stargater> /fn and co[16:32:00] <stargater> and a saml description[16:32:06] <stargater> what think you ?[16:32:48] <stargater> can you make a folder haiku_book on top /src/docs/user[16:33:12] <nielx> stargater: you could but why?[16:34:35] <stargater> why not all infos found in bebook[16:34:36] <Kokito> Anarchos, in BeOS, to restart the input_server you use "/system/servers/input_server -q". has that changed in Haiku?[16:34:39] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[16:35:02] <stargater> nielx, ore can we add/edit the bebook ?[16:35:04] <nielx> no[16:35:14] <nielx> the license does not allow that[16:35:17] <stargater> so now have we the WHY :-)[16:35:59] <Kokito> stargater, the license does not allow derivatives[16:37:01] <stargater> Kokito, this is the point, why ask for haiku book[16:37:26] <Kokito> I am not sure I understand your question stargater[16:37:47] <stargater> eg, BCursor have new Cursors, but in Bebook is this not found, so it whas better we can make this in haiku book[16:37:52] <Anarchos> Kokito i don't know[16:37:53] <stargater> hehe[16:38:08] *** Kroki has quit IRC[16:38:12] <Anarchos> i just killed it in tema monitor and it restarts automatically[16:38:24] <stargater> nielx, and you ? understand me ?[16:38:25] *** dakdagi has quit IRC[16:39:03] <nielx> yes, but there is so much more to document ...[16:39:20] <Kokito> stargater, the haiku book needs to be written[16:39:56] <stargater> nielx, yes, but it is better we make small steps (no steps is nit so good)[16:40:06] <stargater> nit = not[16:40:15] <nielx> please realise that someone needs to take those steps[16:40:51] <stargater> you are the Haiku Book maintrainer and maker :-)[16:40:57] <Kokito> stargater, the bebook serves the purpose of documenting at least the basic API until the haiku book gets more traction[16:41:02] *** margiolas has quit IRC[16:41:30] *** margiolas has joined #haiku[16:42:50] *** n9986 has joined #haiku[16:43:23] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[16:53:37] *** echelog has joined #haiku[16:55:07] *** E-WolfShade has joined #haiku[16:55:35] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[16:55:41] *** Advant_ has quit IRC[16:56:46] <kirilla> it's a huge project, rewriting the bebook from scratch[16:57:23] <nielx> it is[16:57:25] * Kokito nods[16:57:37] <nielx> I do think a tool to make it easier might inspire people[17:01:50] <kirilla> yes, making patches for doxygen markup isn't overly tempting :P[17:04:22] *** pgr has quit IRC[17:04:26] <kirilla> perhaps a bi-directional web service, sort of like the HTA, allowing concurrent access to doxygen-prepped source in the svn repo, admin-committed in batches[17:04:49] <nielx> kirilla: sure, but it is a huge undertaking[17:05:02] <nielx> just to design and code a basic tool[17:05:03] <kirilla> I can only imagine[17:05:50] <Anarchos> kirilla one day i dream to port http://musescore.org to haiku :)[17:06:11] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[17:06:52] <kirilla> neat, Anarchos[17:06:57] <stargater> nielx, doxygen is a good tool for make api documents ?[17:07:08] <nielx> yes[17:07:14] <nielx> look at its website[17:07:21] *** Styrbjorn has quit IRC[17:08:11] <kirilla> damn firefox keeps hanging on youtube videos *grumble*[17:08:15] <stargater> ok, but i not soure o drive to BG 22, but when then will aks markus maier, he made the zeta doxygen api in yellowtab times[17:08:29] <stargater> i hope i can motivate him[17:08:40] <stargater> help to add the api[17:09:11] <Kokito> nielx, could this http://drupal.org/project/api be used for the haiku book?[17:09:35] * largo returns... (^_^)/[17:09:49] <nielx> Kokito: no that seems to be for existing drupal documentation to be integrated into a drupal website[17:10:24] <kirilla> heh largo[17:12:11] <Kokito> nielx, could it not be modified for the haiku book? it may be easier than starting from scratch[17:12:45] <CIA-45> stippi * r335 /webkit/trunk/WebKit/haiku/WebPositive/ (4 files):[17:12:46] <CIA-45> * Converted BrowsingHistory.h/cpp to Haiku coding style.[17:12:46] <CIA-45> * Probably fixed a race condition on program launch. If you started typing[17:12:46] <CIA-45> into the URL field really fast, the static instance in[17:12:46] <CIA-45> BrowsingHistory::DefaultInstance() could be created by two threads, which[17:12:46] <CIA-45> may be responsible for the "recursive init" exception that GCC throws in[17:12:47] <CIA-45> this situation. It's not easy to trigger, maybe this was it.[17:12:49] *** scriptdevil has joined #haiku[17:13:54] <scriptdevil> Hey. I wish to start contributing to the Haiku project too. Not through the GSOC. Maybe one of the apps or libraries. Can anyone suggest something that needs some love?[17:14:47] <Ingenu> mmmmh[17:14:51] <scriptdevil> I am quite proficient at C++. I haven't done anything in Haiku other than running the OS via qemu. And yeah. I just checked out the trunk using svn[17:15:22] <nielx> Kokito: it is only for displaying existing documentation, not for editing it[17:15:31] <Ingenu> you'd have to ask the devs, not sure they are around atm (different timezones, real life...)[17:15:34] <Kokito> ah, ok nielx[17:15:44] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[17:16:01] <mmadia> scriptdevil : there's much that can be done... after using it for some time, you'll find some areas that are lacking.[17:16:15] <Kokito> nielx, is there such a thing as a doxygen (wysiwyg) editor?[17:16:37] <mmadia> ... though, ask about those areas as there maybe some existing code to use scriptdevil.[17:17:00] <scriptdevil> Ok :)[17:17:29] * Kokito wonders if a Doxygen editor for Haiku could be a viable GSoC project[17:17:54] <nielx> Kokito: well, I have a design blueprint for it in my mind, I can make it a suggestion[17:18:02] <nielx> (I'm not going to apply myself)[17:18:52] <stargater> i tool whas nice = read the headerfile and make automaticly the API documents in the other step is the descriptions[17:19:26] <nielx> stargater: I guess it would be easier to use Doxygens XML output[17:19:41] <nielx> so you won't have to write a C-header parser yourself[17:19:52] <Kokito> if having such a tool would help spearheading Haiku documentation, it may be worth putting it up as a gsoc suggestion[17:20:45] <stargater> nielx, have you a example for a XML output ?[17:20:57] <nielx> no, but you can make one yourself[17:20:59] <Anarchos> kirilla i wonder which professionnal tools for music on beos existed.[17:21:17] <stargater> ?[17:21:50] <nielx> stargater: look for the instructions on getting doxygen output[17:21:52] *** Styrbjorn has joined #haiku[17:21:56] <nielx> it will also generate xml[17:22:22] <kirilla> Anarchos: I don't remember if there were any truly professional apps actually released.[17:23:03] <stargater> nielx, you mean this http://api.haiku-os.org/apidoc.html#commands[17:23:31] <Anarchos> cubase and T-racks maybe ?[17:23:42] <kirilla> Anarchos: oh yeah, T-racks[17:23:51] <kirilla> and there were some midi sequencers[17:25:47] <Anarchos> kirilla what a pity my sound card is not recognized on haiku ![17:25:48] <kirilla> if only it was easier to port Qt and GTK apps... :P[17:25:54] <nielx> I mean this: http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/starting.html (step 2)[17:26:08] <nielx> but for you especially in easy terms: 1. download & install doxygen[17:26:15] <nielx> cd trunk/docs/user[17:26:17] <nielx> doxygen[17:26:21] <nielx> find the output under generated[17:26:50] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[17:27:27] <Anarchos> kirilla a standard AC'97 Audio Controller[17:28:16] <kirilla> Anarchos: I hear the AC'97 aren't as standardized as they're said to be[17:28:58] <stargater> nielx, work doxygen in haiku ?[17:29:17] <nielx> stargater: yes, there is a pre-compiled binary on Bebits (I think)[17:29:27] <nielx> sorry[17:29:31] <nielx> or haikuware[17:29:41] <Anarchos> kirilla it is an intel one[17:29:50] <stargater> ahh why is this not in the optionalpackage ?[17:30:00] <Anarchos> kirilla listdev say device 24c5: 82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Audio Controller[17:30:23] <stargater> and as 3rdParty trunk ore tools trunk in haiku self ?[17:30:48] <kirilla> Anarchos: but did Intel make it themselves, and is it the same as in the previous and next chipsets or even sibling chipsets ? :)[17:30:58] <nielx> stargater: because it was made long before the Optionalpackage stuff[17:31:09] <nielx> you can also get the source[17:31:12] <nielx> it compiles cleanly[17:31:19] <Anarchos> kirilla no idea[17:31:19] <stargater> ok then can this add now ?[17:31:42] *** tqh has joined #haiku[17:31:48] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[17:31:53] <kirilla> Anarchos: you are right though that anything Intel we should try our best to support, since so many have those[17:31:53] <stargater> better is it, when it is a part in the haiku trunk[17:32:31] <scriptdevil> 1.2 GB checkout :-o :D[17:32:43] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[17:32:59] <kirilla> I wish I had more time/skills/determination[17:33:06] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[17:33:21] <Anarchos> kirilla i can help but i don't know where to start[17:33:24] <stargater> nielx, http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/tools => this is a good place i think[17:33:37] <stargater> for doxygen[17:33:38] <nielx> don't think so[17:33:43] <stargater> why ?[17:33:47] <nielx> everybody is in the process of moving stuff out of the repository[17:33:58] <nielx> if it comes back in a more easy fashion it is through optionalpackages[17:34:43] <stargater> nielx, but this doxygen app is need for make a API dokumentation[17:34:55] <nielx> stargater: look at haiku-development list for that discussion[17:35:02] <stargater> so it is better into the trunk[17:35:07] <stargater> ahh ok , hmm[17:35:26] <stargater> hmm other question wat is this => http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/tools/docbook[17:36:02] <MadEchidna> ooh, I just had an idea[17:36:14] <MadEchidna> I was sad last night as my broadcom wifi isn't supported yet[17:36:26] <MadEchidna> but my other jumper laptop has an intel card[17:36:28] <kirilla> Anarchos: what we need is device driver development, but I think you have to have the right mindset, as it doesn't seem quite as rewarding as making GUI apps[17:36:30] <MadEchidna> I'll just swap em[17:36:44] <nielx> stargater: that's for (some of) this documentation:http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/documentation[17:37:19] <kirilla> Anarchos: and once hardware is supported, people take it for granted :P[17:37:59] <scriptdevil> kirilla: I think I will start looking out to driver dev then :D I know it will take quite some time before I come out with a good driver. But then :P I like being in the background too :P[17:38:24] <kirilla> scriptdevil: awesome :)[17:39:03] <Anarchos> kirilla i like to learn to do hardware dev :)[17:39:36] <kirilla> scriptdevil: I suggest starting simple, so you don't get stuck and lose interest[17:39:51] * JonathanThompson notes a strange mismatch between username and stated goal :p[17:40:22] <scriptdevil> JonathanThompson: That was back when I was 16 and I thought I was the coolest in town because I knew Ruby[17:40:35] <JonathanThompson> What changed that perception?[17:41:00] <scriptdevil> JonathanThompson: I am currently on my way to a PG in VLSI tool design :P From July[17:41:11] <scriptdevil> JonathanThompson: I realized that I hated GUI design[17:41:13] <kirilla> Anarchos and scriptdevil: these pages may still be relevant: http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/DeviceDrivers.html[17:41:24] <JonathanThompson> PG=?[17:41:26] *** spvensko has joined #haiku[17:41:33] <scriptdevil> Post Graduate course[17:41:39] <JonathanThompson> Ah, ok.[17:41:45] <scriptdevil> (Not Parental Guidance :P)[17:41:52] <JonathanThompson> Deeper, less visibility to most :D[17:42:26] <scriptdevil> JonathanThompson: Yeah. I prefer being anonymous. :P[17:42:30] <Anarchos> JonathanThompson maybe he crossed the way of a beautiful blonde :)[17:42:45] <JonathanThompson> Stranger things have happened :)[17:42:55] <JonathanThompson> Maybe now he's hiding for his wife![17:43:11] <Anarchos> kirilla i know them but i lack the official doc of my sound card[17:43:39] <kirilla> I thought Intel was all about open :P[17:43:55] * JonathanThompson envisions Anarchos developing a sound driver that causes 1 in 1000 cards to catch on fire due to some missing information and bad hardware design[17:43:59] <scriptdevil> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.intel.com%2FAssets%2FPDF%2Fspecupdate%2F290745.pdf&ei=G_ykS5v5AouzrAfr4vzwCA&usg=AFQjCNEVrNSHO53-sCucclAK1h9EtPagBQ[17:44:16] <scriptdevil> Errr... Bad link :P[17:44:32] <JonathanThompson> One that proves you're a geek :p[17:44:36] <scriptdevil> I wish Google did gave an option to paste only the final link[17:44:47] <kirilla> nice scriptdevil[17:44:48] * Snappo poits JonathanThompson[17:44:57] * JonathanThompson reads about the 82810DB I/O controller[17:45:02] *** mmadia has quit IRC[17:45:10] <JonathanThompson> me repoits Snappo[17:45:15] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[17:45:17] <kirilla> link worked for me[17:45:27] *** spvensko has quit IRC[17:45:39] <JonathanThompson> Oops, typo on my part.[17:45:49] <JonathanThompson> 82801DB[17:46:24] <Snappo> oh good, the wifi card in this system is a 2915ABG[17:46:31] <Snappo> that'll work fine, just fine[17:46:41] <JonathanThompson> All But Garbage?[17:46:55] <scriptdevil> ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/845g/29865701.pdf is a better link[17:47:00] *** Snappo has quit IRC[17:47:26] <scriptdevil> I am jumoung to early conclusions :-([17:48:27] <scriptdevil> Ok.. Am off.. Will be back if I have some problems with reaching my goal :P[17:48:42] * JonathanThompson expects scriptdevil to be back soon ;)[17:48:46] <kirilla> heh :)[17:48:55] <JonathanThompson> Rule of thumb: documentation is ALWAYS wrong![17:48:59] <kirilla> and welcome to do so![17:49:13] <scriptdevil> www.intel.com/assets/pdf/datasheet/290744.pdf is the actual datasheet however.[17:49:18] <scriptdevil> finally got it right![17:49:21] <JonathanThompson> And your point is?[17:49:36] * kirilla points JonathanThompson[17:49:41] <JonathanThompson> Official documentation is more likely to be wrong :p[17:49:52] <JonathanThompson> (In my experience!)[17:50:04] *** MadEchidna has quit IRC[17:50:06] <JonathanThompson> kirilla: points, or poits?[17:50:15] <kirilla> sproints![17:50:21] *** scriptdevil has left #haiku[17:50:34] <JonathanThompson> Ah, a new mutation! Did it come out on New Year's Day?[17:50:54] <Anarchos> scriptdevil remember that BePDF is broken on haiku :)[17:51:08] <JonathanThompson> Too slow, Anarchos ;)[17:52:28] * kirilla wonder if there's a Ruby IDE called Rugby[17:52:49] * JonathanThompson thinks kirilla should punt one[17:52:53] <kirilla> haha :)[17:53:08] * kirilla punts JonathanThompson[17:53:24] * JonathanThompson is not sprointed, pointed, and punted[17:53:25] <kirilla> oh wait, that'd be spunts[17:53:26] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[17:53:50] <Anarchos> JonathanThompson i tried to file a bug about BePDF but i could not succeed[17:53:54] <Kokito> Anarchos, BePDF is in fact on the slow side, but it does work[17:54:36] <Ingenu> code doesn't need doc, it is the doc already[17:55:11] <Anarchos> Kokito "Missing symbol : _t24__default_alloc_template2b0i0._S_free_list"[17:55:19] <JonathanThompson> Ingenu: scriptdevil was working with hardware docs :)[17:55:24] *** tqh has quit IRC[17:55:34] <Ingenu> mhhh[17:55:43] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[17:55:45] <Ingenu> doesn't work then[17:55:51] <Kokito> Anarchos, working fine here on r35895. what haiku rev are you running?[17:56:03] <stargater> Ingenu, you mead read the header ?[17:56:16] <Ingenu> yes[17:56:49] <Ingenu> well designed software needs headers and some comments[17:56:57] <Anarchos> Kokito r35327[17:57:08] <Ingenu> if you gave contracts and invariants it helps[17:57:17] <Ingenu> have*[17:57:18] <Anarchos> Kokito but jam runs out of memory when trying to build a more up to date versions[17:57:25] <JonathanThompson> That's your problem, Anarchos: you're woefully out of date :p[17:57:51] <Anarchos> JonathanThompson i know . Should i just rebuild the kernel to let BePDF run ?[17:57:59] <Ingenu> 500 days old ?[17:58:09] <JonathanThompson> Is that a rhetorical question?[17:58:23] <JonathanThompson> Remember, you signed up for the insanity :)[17:58:28] <Ingenu> or do we have more than a revision per day[17:58:44] <kirilla> usually more[17:59:00] <kirilla> every commit is a revision[17:59:04] * Ingenu is regular user : download, install, use[17:59:18] <Ingenu> ah[17:59:24] * JonathanThompson thinks perhaps Ingenu gets enough digital fiber in his diet[17:59:31] <kirilla> Ingenu: http://cia.vc/stats/project/OpenBeOS[17:59:39] <Ingenu> didn't think it used SVN revision[17:59:59] <kirilla> it?[18:00:21] <kirilla> Haiku has revisions, BePDF probably has some revisions of its own[18:00:28] <Ingenu> yeah, I'm software dev[18:00:34] <kirilla> ah, sorry :)[18:00:48] <Ingenu> but for an unkown reason my brain switched off a couple weeks back[18:01:02] <Ingenu> still trying to get it back up and runninh[18:01:05] <Ingenu> h/g[18:01:15] <kirilla> spring affects some people[18:01:15] <Ingenu> (typos due to iPhone)[18:02:55] *** MadEchidna has joined #haiku[18:03:13] <MadEchidna> fff, I don't know what kind of slot this wifi card uses but it's not minipci :([18:03:56] *** bradsco has joined #haiku[18:04:13] *** Streak|ON has joined #haiku[18:04:17] <Streak|ON> hiya[18:04:18] <Ingenu> I'm not sure I ever saw a minipci slot[18:04:26] <MadEchidna> really?[18:04:34] <kirilla> I wish no developers had to work for a living. It seems to limit their productivity.[18:04:37] <MadEchidna> it was standard for a pretty long time in laptops[18:04:46] <Ingenu> but I remember ISA, VLB and stuff[18:05:02] <MadEchidna> but this Eee pc has a much smaller slot[18:05:07] <Ingenu> never been into small computers ^^[18:05:12] <Kokito> Anarchos, you may want to update your installation[18:05:19] <kirilla> hi Streak|ON[18:05:20] <MadEchidna> the wifi card is about the size of a Zippo[18:05:28] <Anarchos> Kokito i know i am trying to rebuild it piece by piece[18:05:48] <Ingenu> kirilla: but... we do code for food...[18:06:30] <Ingenu> I think you wished Haiku inc could hire devs instead[18:06:45] <Kokito> Anarchos, might be better to do a clean install from a nightly build[18:06:47] *** wildur has joined #haiku[18:07:06] <Anarchos> Kokito too hard for me : haiku is my only OS...[18:07:14] <kirilla> I wish I had a job that made my skills++[18:07:34] <Anarchos> kirilla i am doing so silly J2EE for a bank ....[18:08:05] *** bradsco has quit IRC[18:08:05] <Ingenu> kirilla: skill++ is that a way to mean you want your skills bloated ?[18:08:06] <Ingenu> ;p[18:08:15] <kirilla> Anarchos: I'm sure its better than a lot of other jobs though[18:08:24] <Kokito> Anarchos, do you have an extra partition?[18:08:29] <Ingenu> Anarchos: at least you get well paid[18:08:30] *** bradsco has joined #haiku[18:08:45] <kirilla> Ingenu: I wish my wallet was a little more bloated at times :)[18:09:09] <bradsco> Is anyone here savvy with OSX environment variables?[18:09:16] <Anarchos> Ingenu 2000 per month (after taxes)[18:09:43] <Ingenu> what currency ?[18:09:49] <Anarchos> Ingenu euros[18:10:25] <Ingenu> I get a little more with 10 years experience[18:10:29] <Ingenu> :p[18:10:44] <Anarchos> i work since 2006 :)[18:10:50] <Ingenu> silly game craft (nowhere near an industry)[18:11:14] <HeTo> bradsco: are they somehow different from Unix environment variables?[18:11:47] <bradsco> not in syntax, but damned if I can't find the source to remove some[18:12:40] <Ingenu> Anarchos: why not run a released OS too ?[18:12:59] <HeTo> so you're asking about the OS X login/boot process[18:13:03] *** burmas has joined #haiku[18:13:08] <Anarchos> Ingenu haiku alpha you mean ?[18:13:25] *** burmas has joined #haiku[18:13:35] <HeTo> for which I have no better suggestion than the normal check dotfiles, especially any shell initialisation files[18:13:46] *** burmas has joined #haiku[18:13:47] *** burmas has quit IRC[18:13:59] <Ingenu> no I meant Windows[18:14:07] *** burmas has joined #haiku[18:14:12] <Anarchos> Ingenu never on my computer (TM) :)[18:14:17] <Ingenu> something rather well tested and reliable for daily use[18:14:30] *** burmas has joined #haiku[18:14:30] <Ingenu> and user friendly[18:14:43] <bradsco> HeTo: Yep, scouring the drive for them.. just not having much luck yet[18:14:43] <Ingenu> (before anyone suggests linux)[18:14:55] <E-WolfShade> LINUX![18:14:55] *** The123king1 has quit IRC[18:14:57] <E-WolfShade> *cough*[18:14:58] <Anarchos> Ingenu haiku is user friendly to me :)[18:15:00] <Ingenu> bah I bought Vista, will buy 7[18:15:07] <E-WolfShade> ew Vista[18:15:10] <Ingenu> byt unreleased[18:15:15] <Ingenu> still alpha[18:15:26] <E-WolfShade> Even Microsoft doesn't try to stand up for Vista[18:15:45] <surrounder> win 7 is so nice[18:15:48] * surrounder pets his install[18:15:53] <Ingenu> you can't stand up idiots when they are your customers[18:15:57] <E-WolfShade> lol[18:16:50] <Ingenu> there's only 1 thing that annoys me in Vista, it's its ability to fuck up directory opyions[18:16:54] <Ingenu> y/t[18:17:38] * nielx is working on PyHaiku again ... frustration![18:18:36] <DraX> isn't there already Bethon?[18:18:42] * kirilla abbreviates: Payku[18:18:51] <mmadia> PayMe :P[18:19:35] <kirilla> mmadia: a rather desperate move, don't you think? ;))[18:19:40] <Ingenu> who needs python ?[18:19:44] <Ingenu> C for all[18:19:45] *** owll has joined #haiku[18:19:52] <Ingenu> period[18:19:53] <mmadia> always worth a shot, kirilla :)[18:19:54] <Ingenu> ;p[18:20:00] <kirilla> heh[18:20:55] *** owll has left #haiku[18:23:28] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[18:26:04] <Anarchos> grrr musescore is using Cmake instead of make[18:27:30] <stargater> Ingenu, then we need a haiku book , when all read the headers[18:27:34] <kirilla> Anarchos: it's available as an optional package though[18:30:15] <eml> nielx: Lots of praise from me![18:30:27] <eml> For working on PyHaiku[18:30:43] <stargater> PyHaiku ?[18:30:51] <eml> Python in Haiku[18:31:21] <stargater> with haiku api bindings ?[18:31:38] <nielx> well, more than just api bindings[18:31:56] <DraX> what's wrong with bethon?[18:32:19] <nielx> DraX: there is nothing inherently wrong with it, the only thing is that when you are using it you are basically coding C++ in python[18:32:20] <stargater> url ?[18:32:29] <nielx> stargater: way to early to share[18:32:41] <stargater> ah ok[18:32:46] <DraX> alright[18:32:51] <stargater> yous you swing ?[18:33:01] <stargater> yous = used[18:33:04] <nielx> no[18:33:06] <nielx> handcrafted[18:33:13] <stargater> ok :-)[18:33:36] <DraX> nielx: you should talk to MrSunshine, he's working on hand drafted D bindings[18:33:37] <stargater> in TKthinker style ?[18:33:44] <eml> nielx: Did you restart the project from scratch? You said you're working on it "again" :p[18:33:53] *** PieterPan has joined #haiku[18:33:55] <DraX> s/dra/cra/[18:33:59] <nielx> eml: well, I have a start from scratch from a month ago[18:34:10] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[18:34:26] <eml> Alright :)[18:35:11] <eml> nielx: I could possibly help out with documentation or so, not that I'm even a decent coder but if you have something that doesn't require me to be a genious I'm up for it[18:35:24] <nielx> I'll keep that in mind[18:35:35] <nielx> but I'm in the very preliminary stages right now[18:35:49] *** burmas has quit IRC[18:36:55] *** burmas has joined #haiku[18:36:57] *** burmas has quit IRC[18:37:15] *** burmas has joined #haiku[18:37:35] *** burmas has joined #haiku[18:37:37] *** burmas has quit IRC[18:37:49] <eml> Sure, just throwing it out there[18:37:56] *** burmas has joined #haiku[18:38:32] <stargater> so cu[18:38:38] *** stargater has quit IRC[18:39:32] <mmadia> burmas : there are websites like http://pastebin.com for pasting & sharing large blocks of text[18:41:24] *** kirilla has quit IRC[18:43:10] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[18:43:39] *** spvensko has joined #haiku[18:43:40] <eml> what is this supposed to mean? whatever, it's not related to your ban goochie, hope you'll clear it up when your ban expires[18:44:50] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[18:45:07] *** MadEchidna has quit IRC[18:45:35] *** fhein has joined #haiku[18:45:50] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[18:46:20] * martinhpedersen is away (Disconnected from bouncer...)[18:47:42] <humdinger> mmadia: the moderation was probably trigger by the line "> list." in the mail. :)[18:48:40] *** mmadia42 has joined #haiku[18:48:50] *** mmadia has quit IRC[18:52:08] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[18:53:08] *** E-WolfShade has quit IRC[19:00:26] <eml> Dangit, haiku-r1alpha1.image too big for my usb disk :-([19:00:31] <eml> usb stick*[19:00:52] *** Streak|ON has quit IRC[19:02:49] <CIA-45> stippi * r336 /webkit/trunk/WebKit/haiku/WebPositive/ (4 files):[19:02:50] <CIA-45> * Added General page in Settings window with option to specify the maximum[19:02:50] <CIA-45> age (in days) of items in the browsing history.[19:03:26] <mmadia42> how big's your usb stick, eml?[19:03:52] <eml> 512mb[19:04:00] *** aniN has joined #haiku[19:04:21] <eml> Image is 600mb[19:04:34] <mmadia42> a nightly image will fit : http://haiku-files.org/[19:04:46] *** mmadia42 has quit IRC[19:05:10] <eml> MrSunshine: Thanks! Though, which one should I pick?[19:05:56] <eml> Oh he went off[19:06:57] <largo> the RAW[19:07:00] <largo> the latest one.[19:07:11] <largo> eml: do you have Linux installed?[19:07:14] <eml> gcc4?[19:07:15] <eml> largo: No[19:07:23] <largo> which OS are you on now?[19:07:26] <eml> I can't get my CD writer/driver to boot on my old PC[19:07:32] <eml> I'm on windows at the moment[19:07:39] <eml> On my macbook, I intend to install haiku on and old pc[19:07:42] <eml> an old*[19:07:55] <largo> well, I think the macbook would have dd?[19:08:07] <largo> I'm not really familiar with what command line tools come on the Macs.[19:08:14] <eml> Writing the image is not the problem[19:08:24] <eml> gcc4 or gcc2?[19:10:51] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[19:12:26] <largo> well, the devs recommend gcc2hybrid.[19:12:28] *** spvensko_ has joined #haiku[19:12:32] <largo> as that's what the actual releases are.[19:13:43] <eml> okay[19:14:15] <eml> Too bad the download speeds are so slow, can't make a last attempt to boot this old pc[19:15:33] *** spvensko has quit IRC[19:18:05] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[19:19:57] <largo> eml: the speeds from the server aren't slow... is your connection slow?[19:21:04] <eml> I guess they're located far away from Finland. What I meant is that my DL speed from those servers is slow, my bad. I max out at ~1.5 mb/s[19:21:40] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[19:21:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[19:21:47] *** jsj has joined #haiku[19:23:18] <kitallis> cpr420, hey[19:23:36] <cpr420> I know nothing of ruby :)[19:23:41] <kitallis> damn.[19:23:42] <cpr420> just kidding[19:24:07] <kitallis> have you tried compiling rubinius?[19:24:25] <cpr420> no[19:24:29] *** MadEchidna has joined #haiku[19:24:32] <cpr420> it's on my todo list[19:24:57] <kitallis> well, would you like to try right now? free?[19:25:14] *** Mixer has joined #haiku[19:25:27] <MadEchidna> well I just tried to install gnash on a recent gcc2 hybrid build and it's not working :([19:25:27] <cpr420> my computer is currently busy fighting with a git repo[19:25:45] <kitallis> hm, alright[19:25:49] <cpr420> doesn't it need llvm and a bunch of other stuff[19:25:55] <MadEchidna> the dependencies script seemed to run fine but when I tried to watch an swf it said "are you sure you instaleld the dependencies?"[19:26:08] <kitallis> i have compiled llvm[19:26:35] <kitallis> i've also made some bindings over a BWindow application :>[19:26:38] <eml> By the way, has anyone here installed haiku on their macbook?[19:27:02] <MadEchidna> Haiku on a macbook eh[19:27:14] <MadEchidna> kind of seems like a downgrade at least in it's current state :V[19:27:37] <aldeck> emi: a few people have, not sure how far it's supported though[19:27:53] <kitallis> i've repacked ruby1.9, the ruby header file directory wasn't placed in the lib/../i586 directory it seems[19:27:58] <cpr420> kitallis: I'll give it a try, i think my git clone is hosed anyhow[19:28:02] *** kirilla has quit IRC[19:28:17] <kitallis> cpr420, \o/[19:28:27] <eml> aldeck: Yeah looks like a no-no[19:28:39] <aldeck> emi: why?[19:28:53] <eml> MadEchidna: Not like I intend to run haiku as my primary os :p[19:29:03] <eml> aldeck: Just wondering :)[19:29:14] <cpr420> kitallis: you have a package or a diff ready for llvm?[19:29:18] *** marmida has joined #haiku[19:29:30] <aldeck> emi: you could search for bug tickets with "macbook" to see current issues[19:29:35] <kitallis> cpr420, yes, just a second[19:30:08] *** PieterPan has quit IRC[19:30:48] <aldeck> emi: looks like a try-try to me :)[19:31:07] <eml> aldeck: Forums told me that it's probably not going to work at the moment. I can always fix my old pc that refuses to boot CDs next weekend (don't have time for it tomorrow :(.)[19:31:21] <largo> I have a question.... I have a link to WebPositive on my desktop. to run the application. I have a zip for the latest WebPositive also on my desktop. when I run expander, which will be default expand to a folder called "WebPositive", it does it without any complaint, but no folder is actually created because I already have something by the same name on my desktop.[19:31:36] *** Kokito has quit IRC[19:31:43] <MadEchidna> >_>[19:31:45] <aldeck> emi: unfortunately forums are not really followed by the main devs[19:31:46] <largo> shouldn't there be an error or something? Or is it actually expanding into a hidden part of the WebPositive executable or something?[19:31:50] <MadEchidna> http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/stippi/2010-03-19_webpositive_matures[19:31:53] <MadEchidna> this is good stuff :D[19:32:04] <largo> MadEchidna: http://mmlr.dyndns.org/[19:32:05] <eml> aldeck: Still[19:32:53] <kitallis> cpr420, http://pastie.org/private/uyvpzeqyea9a61q7fl1iiw.[19:33:03] <MadEchidna> dyndls <)<[19:33:11] <MadEchidna> is someone hosting this off their DSL or something :P[19:33:21] <eml> aldeck: I'd rather run haiku on a pc so I can keep my macbook running another os anyways. Oh and it's eml, not emi. :-D[19:33:29] <eml> Now I'm out, have a great Saturday everyone[19:33:53] <aldeck> eml: ah small screen :)[19:34:10] <MadEchidna> meanwhile on another network...[19:34:14] <MadEchidna> <franz> you're the haiku community representative here mad <MadEchidna> is that what I am :|[19:34:18] <aldeck> MadEchidna: yep and it's hosted on haiku[19:34:34] <MadEchidna> heh[19:35:31] <humdinger> largo: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5335 may be the same bug.[19:37:02] * largo looks[19:37:08] *** Barrett has quit IRC[19:38:12] <largo> humdinger: I think that gives a warning now. I'm pretty sure I've tried to delete a folder and had it give me an actual error for that.[19:38:14] * largo tests.[19:39:22] * JonathanThompson tests largo testing[19:39:26] <JonathanThompson> Pass or fail?[19:39:59] <largo> interesting...[19:40:04] <largo> it just merges them now...[19:40:07] <largo> with no message.[19:40:16] <largo> so any folder will just overwrite any folder already there..[19:40:21] <largo> and the same with any same named files.[19:40:25] <JonathanThompson> That seems.... bad...[19:40:26] <largo> silently overwritten.[19:40:31] <largo> yeah :([19:40:40] <humdinger> are you sure?[19:40:55] <largo> I made a folder called "Testing" and deleted it.[19:40:59] <largo> it went into the trash.[19:41:03] <JonathanThompson> If there were a sure way to undo that operation, that'd be one thing.[19:41:03] <humdinger> Here, it looks like the file foobar is still in the Trash. The folder just vanishes.[19:41:10] <largo> So I made another and deleted it.... no message.[19:41:18] <largo> so I made another and copied an MP3 into it... deleted that...[19:41:24] <largo> it merged into the one already there...[19:41:27] <kitallis> cpr420, takes a hell lotta time :> try a -j(n)[19:41:36] <largo> made another with the WebPositive-r336.zip in it...[19:41:38] <humdinger> My original bug concerned a file foobar not a folder.[19:41:47] <largo> deleted that... merged into the one in the trash that now had the 2 files in it...[19:41:59] <largo> made another one with the Web+ zip in it... deleted.... no message...[19:42:15] <cpr420> kitallis: won't help me, i'm single core[19:42:16] <largo> I'd have to change the date on the zip file and see if it updates the one in the trash with the newer one or something.[19:42:29] <kitallis> cpr420, aww[19:42:42] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[19:42:54] * JonathanThompson wonders if there are brain transplants[19:43:12] <JonathanThompson> Or, perhaps we'll have to recore you, cpr420 :p[19:43:27] <largo> humdinger: Foobar deleted after Foobar becomes "Foobar copy" in the trash.[19:43:36] <largo> but folders, and files in folders, just overwrite.[19:43:52] <JonathanThompson> Ah, an inconsistency.[19:44:16] <humdinger> largo: not if you first delete a file "foobar" and then delete a folder "foobar".[19:44:24] <humdinger> then the folder never reaches the Trash[19:44:32] <largo> I just confirmed... it does indeed silently overwrite any files in the folders by the same names too.[19:44:47] <humdinger> before (like in te ticket described) the folder wasn't trashed at all[19:44:57] <largo> humdinger: ah... more trouble then :)[19:45:00] * JonathanThompson predicts largo will be writing a detailed bug report very soon[19:45:22] <humdinger> if so, maybe add to the one I mentioned.[19:45:24] <largo> just deleted completely.[19:45:57] <largo> humdinger: yeah, I'll just expand on your ticket if you don't mind. :)[19:46:36] <humdinger> OK. I just added what has changed since the original text.[19:47:02] <humdinger> BTW, Zumi is the best: http://zumi.xoom.it/myhaiku[19:47:53] *** wildur has quit IRC[19:49:39] <largo> yeah... I was looking at those. awesome![19:50:54] <humdinger> That tux at the bottom looks a bit Homeresque. :)[19:53:06] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[19:53:28] *** tqh has joined #haiku[19:54:52] *** thotypous has quit IRC[19:57:15] <largo> humdinger: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5335[19:57:20] <largo> hopefully that's ok. :)[19:58:38] <humdinger> very nicely done :)[19:59:06] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[19:59:17] * JonathanThompson poits mmadia in greetings[19:59:24] * largo tips hat and bows slightly. "glad to be of service."[19:59:25] <humdinger> There has been talk in the past about a "Trashed" attribute which you called "deleted on" in your ticket.[19:59:36] * mmadia waves[19:59:43] <JonathanThompson> That's something that should exist.[19:59:45] <largo> humdinger: it sounds like the common sense approach to me.[19:59:50] *** kokito has joined #haiku[19:59:53] <JonathanThompson> That, and original location.[19:59:58] <largo> ah, yes.[20:00:04] <humdinger> There already is a "Original name" attribute. Which should be on by default...[20:00:34] <largo> what purpose does the "original name" attribute serve?[20:00:38] <humdinger> which is the original location.[20:00:42] <JonathanThompson> Well, there's original name, but what if you have multiple files with the same original name but aren't the same file and came from (of course) different original locations?[20:00:55] <humdinger> name == location.[20:00:58] <humdinger> badly named[20:01:06] <largo> "ah" again. ;)[20:01:08] <humdinger> It has been discussed before...[20:01:26] <largo> well it sounds like the start of the solution is already there..[20:01:33] <largo> just not ideally implemented (yet).[20:01:42] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[20:02:10] <JonathanThompson> No, unless it includes the full path, it is NOT.[20:02:22] <humdinger> it does[20:02:32] * JonathanThompson screams at Colloquy[20:03:18] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[20:03:28] <Anarchos> where can i find latest files to install ?[20:03:29] <largo> humdinger: well, so the path and filename info is already there. perhaps the trash itself could then handle indexing the deleted items with the inclusion of the "trashed" attribute or something?[20:03:37] <Anarchos> not a raw image, just the files[20:04:04] *** burmas has left #haiku[20:04:07] <largo> or if there is a way to track the deleted files without having to add an actual file attribute? I don't know how the file attributes currently work.[20:04:26] <largo> Anarchos: grab the latest iso and mount it?[20:04:53] <largo> I read today that Haiku will mount a Haiku ISO just like a read/write filesystem.[20:05:20] <humdinger> Tracker just has to add a "Trashed time" when it marks a file as trashed. Just like it does the "Original name" to be able to "Restore" it.[20:06:31] <largo> well, my thinking was to make this stuff transparent to the trash beyond maybe a "Trashed" date listed in the file properties detailed view of the Trash.[20:06:58] <largo> so you could have a list of "Testing" folders differentiated in the Trash by their "Trashed" attribute listed along with file size, modified date, etc.[20:07:47] <Anarchos> largo i screwed up my haiku...[20:07:58] <largo> Anarchos: "ohhh... the humanity!"[20:08:06] <Anarchos> if i put the beos kernel on haiku, will it work ?[20:08:13] <largo> no clue :/[20:08:17] * JonathanThompson laughs[20:08:21] <largo> I wouldn't think so.[20:08:26] <largo> they're different at the low level.[20:08:27] <humdinger> Normally, files/folders with the same name should suffixed with "(copy 1,2,3...)". the original name and trashed date can then help you to see what's what.[20:08:41] <mmadia> it'll work as well as if you put linux's kernel on Haiku ;)[20:08:43] <largo> Anarchos: you can just install Haiku over itself.[20:08:52] <largo> Anarchos: it will just replace the system files and leave your files intact.[20:09:17] <mmadia> upgrading like that is ill-advised though.[20:09:28] <largo> humdinger: why would you need the "copy, copy1" etc... when you could just differentiate based on the Trashed time?[20:09:31] <Anarchos> largo yes but install from where ?[20:09:32] <largo> you're adding complexity.[20:09:33] <mmadia> we're still pre-R1 and things are prone to change.[20:09:42] <largo> the point is K.I.S.S. :)[20:10:25] <humdinger> largo: You have a point there. OTOH, it's inconsistent with the rest of Tracker behaviour.[20:10:29] <largo> I suppose you could just rename the root folders that go into the trash and avoid the name conflicts within them...[20:10:34] * JonathanThompson blows largo a K.I.S.S.[20:10:39] <humdinger> creating some new folders will also append a copy...[20:10:43] <Anarchos> mmadia fuck, i just replace my haiku kernel with a more recent one i built and it is rebooting at startup...[20:10:56] <largo> humdinger: I see the point of not introducing an inconsistency just for the Trash.[20:11:56] <humdinger> I also think it would make the Trash part of Tracker to complex. You just can't have files with the same file name in a folder...[20:12:39] <MadEchidna> * JonathanThompson laughs[20:12:41] <largo> well I was thinking of the Trash as not just a normal folder.[20:12:44] <MadEchidna> I bet when you laugh it sounds like this[20:12:47] <largo> but a special repository for deleted files.[20:12:53] <MadEchidna> "BAH HA HA HA HA HA HA! MWWWAAH AHAHAHAHAHA[20:13:12] <JonathanThompson> More resonant, MadEchidna :p[20:13:15] <mmadia> humdinger : it already can.[20:13:18] <largo> for instance inside the Trash would actually be folders named like /Trash/Trashed234576423587362/ActualTrashedFolder[20:13:29] <largo> but when you open the Trash, you'd only see "ActualTrashedFolder".[20:13:35] *** impy has quit IRC[20:13:37] <mmadia> humdinger: delete /boot/SomeFile and /non-boot-volume/SomeFile[20:13:39] <largo> the timestamped part would be hidden by the Trash folder.[20:13:48] <humdinger> largo: I actually don't know the background that well. I am wondering, however, how it's all handled when Trash folders of different partitions are merged...[20:13:53] <largo> so you'd see same named folders, but they'd have a different Trashed date.[20:14:03] <largo> I know I'm going off on a complex tangent. :P[20:14:11] *** kokito has left #haiku[20:14:11] <largo> just thinking out loud. ;)[20:14:15] *** kokito has joined #haiku[20:14:27] <humdinger> mmadia: exactly. :)[20:14:36] <humdinger> mmadia: how is that handled?[20:14:48] <Anarchos> i have beshare, maybe i can download an entire distro ?[20:14:50] <mmadia> two entries for "SomeFile"[20:15:08] <mmadia> remember, they're stored in each partition's trash folder.[20:15:23] <mmadia> so there's no name collision.[20:15:46] <humdinger> right.[20:16:14] <mmadia> when you do delete /boot/SomeFile ; touch /boot/SomeFile ; delete /boot/SomeFile is when you'll see the "SomeFile, SomeFile\ copy"[20:16:21] <humdinger> The problem described in our ticket only crops up when they are on the same volume[20:17:18] <humdinger> for folders, that is.[20:17:56] *** Advant has joined #haiku[20:19:16] <mmadia> #5335 ?[20:19:20] <OmniMancer> Anachos: download a raw or cd image, put it somewhere bootable, boot from it and install over your haiku[20:19:51] <humdinger> mmadia: exactly.[20:19:51] *** kallisti6 has quit IRC[20:21:29] *** tqh has quit IRC[20:25:33] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[20:31:26] <humdinger> BTW, there's already a ticket for the "Trashed date" attribute: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5247 by mmadia[20:32:42] *** kallisti6 has joined #haiku[20:32:48] <CIA-45> pulkomandy * r35923 /haiku/trunk/data/catalogs/apps/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Update to ukrainian translation.[20:37:50] <MadEchidna> http://www.haikuware.com/20100129463/vlc-104-on-haiku[20:37:50] <MadEchidna> WHAT[20:37:51] <MadEchidna> WHAT[20:37:56] <MadEchidna> why was I not informed[20:38:39] <humdinger> I prefer MediaPlayer myself... :)[20:39:27] <largo> interesting...[20:39:29] <largo> 2 points...[20:39:58] <largo> first, Trying to delete the "WebPositive" folder from the apps folder when you already have a link named "WebPositive" in the Trash DOES throw an error.[20:40:02] <largo> I knew I'd seen an error before.[20:40:15] <largo> second, I'd completely forgotten what started this whole Trash discussion. :P[20:40:19] <largo> my expander issue. :P[20:41:31] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[20:41:40] <largo> vooshy: welcome back :)[20:41:58] <vooshy> largo: hey :)[20:42:25] <largo> MadEchidna: Qt UI... :([20:42:29] <kitallis> cpr420, %?[20:42:34] <cpr420> 98[20:42:40] <largo> I thought there was a real effort NOT to port Qt and GTK etc to Haiku?[20:42:59] <mmadia> it was a 3rd party effort.[20:43:10] *** kallisti6 has quit IRC[20:44:04] <mmadia> ... aside from keeping it out of Haiku, there isn't much we can do to prevent what someone else want's to code.[20:44:30] <largo> true. :F[20:44:50] <vooshy> mmadia: we can always attempt to educate the qt crowd to native apps though... :)[20:45:26] <jmayfield_> why does it matter?[20:45:50] <drano> people think that if qt exists for haiku, nobody will write native apps[20:45:52] <drano> which is stupid[20:45:55] <humdinger> compare Arora to Web+[20:45:56] <jmayfield_> portability is a good thing, imo[20:46:20] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[20:46:20] <drano> since the people who are going to be interested in haiku are going to be writing native apps[20:46:39] <jmayfield_> humdinger, its possible to have 2 apps using the same api to do the same thing, and for one to be a lot better than the other[20:46:47] *** prOSy has quit IRC[20:46:50] <AlienSoldier> i don't have a problem with QT app, but i would not like to se them have yellow tab, just make them look different enough[20:46:51] <cpr420> kitallis: finished. Have you done any initial work on rubinius?[20:47:13] <kitallis> cpr420, nope[20:47:14] <noisetonepause> is it/will it be possible to write apps that use, say, a qt gui but runs a native message loop to respond to bmessages?[20:47:27] <noisetonepause> or a qt app that uses the media kit?[20:47:35] <kitallis> apart from changing the shebang :P[20:47:41] <humdinger> jmayfield_: Sure. Just the motivation to code something using Haiku feature is a lot smaller when there's a "perfectly fine" Qt app already.[20:47:47] <kitallis> which led to some ELF header reading problem[20:48:14] <jmayfield_> humdinger, thats a personal problem, not a reason to restrict anybody..[20:48:16] <kitallis> cpr420, PM?[20:48:17] <jmayfield_> heh[20:48:20] <cpr420> sure[20:48:44] <humdinger> Nobody can restrict anybody. Open Source rules. :)[20:49:30] <jmayfield_> humdinger, i would think that more often than not, portability outweighs fancy native specificness..not always, but usually..[20:49:51] *** aniN has quit IRC[20:49:59] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[20:51:21] *** Kroki has joined #haiku[20:51:25] <vooshy> jmayfield_: each to their own, i dont consider native apps fancy, they just do the job required[20:51:41] <humdinger> jmayfield_: That may be right, esp. from a dev POV. Personally, that's not why I use Haiku.[20:52:04] <jmayfield_> i am not anti native app.. but i can totally see how a lot of times wanting to have the thign run on many platforms is something youd choose[20:56:53] <largo> personally I like simplicity and consistency.[20:57:01] <largo> I dislike different UI looks.[20:57:08] <largo> it's one of the things I really like about Haiku.[20:57:09] <jmayfield_> across platofrms, or inside one?[20:57:15] <largo> inside one.[20:57:40] <largo> like I like the look of Mac OSX... but I don't want that look suddenly popping up in the middle of Haiku.[20:57:57] <jmayfield_> i see.. see, my immediate interp of 'consistency' is using the same tool in the same way across many platofrms[20:58:45] <largo> like I don't like the whole GTK/Qt thing on Linux... the different copy/paste key combos... mouse combos etc... doing different things for every app.[20:58:57] <largo> I've been using Linux for like 12 years and I have always hated that from day 1.[20:59:17] <largo> I realize it's one of the 'strengths' of the platform... I've just never liked it. :)[20:59:21] <jmayfield_> i have been using it forever as well, and cant say that i have ever encountered the problem youre talking about[21:00:00] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[21:05:02] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[21:05:16] <humdinger> laters guys[21:05:31] *** humdinger has quit IRC[21:14:26] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[21:17:39] *** kallisti6 has joined #haiku[21:18:38] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[21:23:16] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC[21:25:10] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[21:28:37] *** saimen has joined #haiku[21:29:39] *** bradsco has quit IRC[21:30:21] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[21:30:49] <largo> jmayfield_: middle click paste. copy on highlight. along with ctrl-c/ctrl-v or shift-del/shift-ins or whatever...[21:31:18] <largo> so you can highlight something and copy something and they'll be in 2 different copy buffers... and you can paste from those 2 different buffers as well at the same time etc.[21:31:52] <largo> different keybindings between apps... like general edit apps versus pico, nano, etc...[21:32:12] <largo> ctrl-c copies in one app.... gives line number in another... completely kills another, etc.[21:32:56] *** kokito has quit IRC[21:33:57] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[21:37:25] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[21:39:24] <JonathanThompson> largo: don't you like consistent inconsistencies? :)[21:39:48] <OmniMancer1> the problem with portability is that you cannot exploit the nice things of any of the platforms[21:39:58] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[21:40:47] <jmayfield_> OmniMancer1, sure, and sometimes that is a problem..[21:40:57] <Ingenu> random poll[21:41:02] <ragcsi> i vote yes[21:41:06] <marmida> 42[21:41:11] <jmayfield_> null[21:41:15] <Ingenu> I hesitate between 1 & 2 screens[21:41:21] <OmniMancer1> pretty much there are a lot of things in haiku that are nice but cannot be used in the name of "portability"[21:41:23] <Ingenu> any advice ?[21:41:53] *** genki has joined #haiku[21:41:58] <marmida> do you mean monitors or desktops?[21:42:00] <largo> OmniMancer1: elaborate please? :)[21:42:05] * largo likes learning. :)[21:42:22] <JonathanThompson> /dev/null is the answer[21:43:03] <OmniMancer1> largo: like the media kit, it exists only in haiku and BeOS[21:43:18] <OmniMancer1> the one thread per window and whole GUI API[21:43:23] <jmayfield_> so what? apps that do media stuff exist everywhere[21:43:26] <OmniMancer1> replicants and shelves[21:43:31] <OmniMancer1> yes[21:43:47] <OmniMancer1> but it means that "portable" media apps cannot exploit haiku to its fullest[21:44:01] *** saimen_ has joined #haiku[21:44:01] <saivert> well most apps don't need to exploit any OS specific functions[21:44:06] * Ingenu monitors[21:44:18] *** jan__64 has joined #haiku[21:44:19] <OmniMancer1> agreed for many apps it doesn't matter that much[21:44:19] <jmayfield_> OmniMancer1, then this app your talking about should maybe be native[21:44:42] <marmida> i love having dual monitors in my linux setup[21:44:50] * JonathanThompson monitors Ingenu monitoring others[21:45:03] <saivert> if you somehow make a text editor that uses some neat OS specific thing then that is just to show off that OS specific thing and not neccessarily useful[21:45:13] <jmayfield_> right[21:45:39] <OmniMancer1> yes[21:46:09] <largo> s/your/you're[21:46:09] *** saimen has quit IRC[21:46:10] *** saimen_ is now known as saimen[21:46:11] <largo> ;)[21:46:11] <OmniMancer1> however in many areas there are things that could be used that are OS specific that may make the program nicer, but will also mean that moving it is hard[21:46:26] <Ingenu> I'm not big brother[21:46:29] <jmayfield_> maybe[21:46:30] <OmniMancer1> I have to go now though[21:46:50] <Ingenu> I'm just not seeing the points of multimonitor setup[21:47:03] <saivert> also most operating systems are very similar. they still use the same concepts that we learned back in the 80s[21:47:04] <OmniMancer1> jmayfield_: if I am not out of date copy paste still doesn't work with Qt on haiku?[21:47:24] <jmayfield_> dunno[21:47:54] <OmniMancer1> also I would like to see an OS that has a "killring" type copy paste system[21:47:54] *** kieselsteini has joined #haiku[21:48:12] <OmniMancer1> where copying a new thing pushes the old thing back instead of replacing it...[21:48:16] <saivert> and Linux still requires the app to be running in order to copy paste something from it.[21:48:18] <kieselsteini> hiho[21:48:29] <saivert> there is no intermediary buffer[21:48:32] <DraX> OmniMancer1: there is a thing for os x that does that[21:48:59] <saivert> killring ?? sure you mean a stack[21:49:08] <OmniMancer1> DraX: I would like it on haiku, hint hint nudge nudge[21:49:11] <saivert> push a string to the stack[21:49:12] <DraX> it's called the kill ring in emacs[21:49:15] <saivert> pop it off to paste[21:49:20] <OmniMancer1> killring is an emacs term[21:49:24] <DraX> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/info2www?(emacs)Kill%20Ring[21:49:26] <saivert> I don't speak lolmacs[21:49:39] <saivert> programmers call that a stack[21:49:45] <DraX> well it's not actually a stack[21:49:49] <DraX> if you read the kill ring description[21:49:52] <cpr420> OmniMancer1: http://www.bebits.com/app/2514 is close to what you're talking about[21:49:58] <saivert> well it sounds like a stack, smells lika stack then it is a stack[21:50:00] <saivert> isn't it?[21:50:00] <OmniMancer1> if anything is a circularly doubly linked list[21:50:11] <OmniMancer1> no[21:50:13] <OmniMancer1> its a rinf[21:50:14] <OmniMancer1> ring[21:50:25] <OmniMancer1> copying (killing) puts it in the ring[21:50:35] <saivert> so the ring just grows[21:50:43] <saivert> there is no beginning, and no end[21:50:43] <OmniMancer1> pasting (yanking) copies it out of the ring.[21:50:48] <OmniMancer1> indeed[21:50:56] <Ingenu> JonathanThompson: what's your setup, screen wise ?[21:51:02] <saivert> but you said you could pop it off[21:51:08] *** saimen_ has joined #haiku[21:51:12] <saivert> so it must have a pointer[21:51:19] <JonathanThompson> 1680*1050 20" iMAc.[21:51:35] <JonathanThompson> (With perhaps some capitalization differences)[21:51:40] <OmniMancer1> you can paste it[21:51:48] <DraX> you can browser and modify the whole kill ring too[21:51:52] <DraX> s/browser/browse/[21:51:56] <OmniMancer1> but just like a clipboard pasting does not remove it from the clipboard[21:51:58] <jmayfield_> how is a ring any different than a stack?[21:52:02] *** fhein has quit IRC[21:52:09] <OmniMancer1> a stack only has a top[21:52:13] <OmniMancer1> and it grows[21:52:17] <jmayfield_> is the 'ringness' all in how you access the satck?[21:52:20] <OmniMancer1> and you can't navigate through it[21:52:24] <saivert> well the whole point was to keep stuff when copying text[21:52:26] *** saimen has quit IRC[21:52:26] *** saimen_ is now known as saimen[21:52:28] <OmniMancer1> its not a stack if you access it that way[21:52:36] <saivert> a FIFO buffer[21:52:42] <OmniMancer1> the point is you get a clipboard history[21:52:48] <DraX> omg, why are we having this argument[21:52:55] <OmniMancer1> but I must go now[21:53:01] <saivert> because people don't know what a stack and FIFO buffer is[21:53:03] <OmniMancer1> DraX: put a kill ring in haiku :P[21:53:04] <DraX> who cares if its a stack or a ring or a orange-juice[21:53:06] <jmayfield_> DraX, i think its a discussion..[21:53:24] <ragcsi> DraX: i do, i'd prefer orange-juice[21:53:32] <OmniMancer1> now I shall go and be back in 2 hours or so and perhaps pick up from where we left off :P[21:53:35] <saivert> I see the poing of a FIFO buffer based clipboard system[21:53:38] <saivert> but not this ring thing[21:53:41] <saivert> *point[21:53:46] <jmayfield_> ragcsi, for drinking perhaps.. not as a method of obtaining a copy history[21:54:04] <OmniMancer1> saivert: what if you want to paste the thing under what was last copied?[21:54:17] <OmniMancer1> now I REALLY must go[21:54:19] <saivert> then you would need some UI mechanics to let you pick something from the "history"[21:54:24] <jmayfield_> saivert, so you can.. copy copy copy, then selectively paste as required[21:54:42] <OmniMancer1> forward and back[21:54:47] <OmniMancer1> and a browser too would be nice[21:54:53] <OmniMancer1> now I am going, goodbye[21:54:53] <saivert> On Windows I had this clipboard history app which kept everything that was ever copied to the clipboard[21:54:58] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[21:55:05] <jmayfield_> copy becomes a "i will need this at some point" op, instead of "i need this now"[21:55:06] <saivert> and you could recall from it with a popup menu[21:55:15] * largo gets a headache from the killring stuffs.[21:55:27] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC[21:55:48] <saivert> it even remembered file copy operations (when copy/pasting from the Explorer file browser)[21:56:29] <jmayfield_> i have to admit.. i rarely, if ever, find a normal copy stack insufficient[21:57:11] <DraX> i use the emacs kill ring as a normal cut/paste mechanism[21:57:32] <saivert> the software I'm talking about is Clip-X http://bluemars.org/clipx/[21:57:45] <saivert> handy if you ever find yourself on a Windows PC[21:58:02] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[21:58:16] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku[21:58:58] *** marmida has left #haiku[22:01:30] *** Disreali has quit IRC[22:03:20] *** kieselsteini is now known as kieselsteini|awa[22:04:01] <Ingenu> JonathanThompson: why waste money on a Mac ?[22:04:15] <JonathanThompson> Packaging?[22:04:16] * martinhpedersen is away (Disconnected from bouncer...)[22:04:45] <JonathanThompson> I didn't really need something with a lot of internal expandability, considering USB2 and etc.[22:04:47] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[22:05:13] <JonathanThompson> And it's the first computer I've bought new since moving back into the apartment scene, and I only have so much space.[22:05:16] <Ingenu> still more expansive than parts assembled[22:05:39] <JonathanThompson> Besides, I wanted to get into iPhone development.[22:05:55] <Ingenu> mmmh[22:06:14] <Ingenu> go iPhone only ! be a man, like me ![22:06:22] <Ingenu> ;)[22:06:26] * JonathanThompson laughs[22:07:38] <Ingenu> need to get a computer, not sure about number of screens[22:07:50] <Ingenu> never used more than one[22:07:51] <Kroki> the more the bettar[22:08:11] <Ingenu> honestly, I see the point of 3[22:08:14] <Ingenu> or 1[22:08:26] <Ingenu> but 2.... useless for games[22:08:35] <vooshy> try and remember you only have two eyes though[22:08:54] <Ingenu> not sure I'd want to spend money on an aux screen either[22:09:04] <Ingenu> yeah[22:09:45] <Ingenu> I'd much prefer BeOS virtual desktops and a great screen[22:09:48] <ragcsi> i have a 20" screen too, at 1680x1050[22:09:50] <Ingenu> 2 screens look like a windows work around[22:09:52] <ragcsi> and it's totally enough[22:10:19] <Ingenu> thinking about full HD[22:10:24] <ragcsi> also, you press 2 buttons and get a completely different screen[22:10:33] <Ingenu> or a 22" 1680.1050[22:10:48] <Ingenu> ragcsi: on windows ?[22:11:32] <ragcsi> idk, there must be some software for that too[22:11:48] *** kitallis has quit IRC[22:12:05] <kirilla> microsoft has or used to have something like that[22:12:22] <ragcsi> http://virtuawin.sourceforge.net/[22:12:40] <ragcsi> first google result :p[22:13:06] <kirilla> in its collection of extras, but its been ages ago.. 10 years maybe, so I could be wrong[22:13:36] <Ingenu> mmh[22:13:49] <Ingenu> I remember trying a number over years[22:13:57] <Ingenu> nothing as good as BeOS[22:14:07] <kirilla> agreed[22:14:13] <Ingenu> even though with Aero it ought be trivial[22:15:16] * largo prefers 1 big screen.[22:15:21] <largo> 22" 1600x1200 here.[22:15:30] <largo> I plan to go even bigger when I move to flat panel.[22:15:42] <largo> (I'm on an old 4:3 CRT)[22:16:36] <largo> when I was 15 years younger I'd be running this at 2048x1536 ;)[22:16:46] <largo> my old eyes can't take that tiny text anymore though. :'([22:17:46] *** _arjen_ has left #haiku[22:18:05] *** dflemstr has quit IRC[22:18:17] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[22:18:28] <kirilla> big screen, 64x64 icons, large fonts :)[22:18:32] *** dflemstr has joined #haiku[22:18:33] <jmayfield_> you dont have to use small fonts with high res[22:18:37] <jmayfield_> yeah[22:19:16] <kirilla> bbl[22:19:18] <Ingenu> yep[22:19:20] *** kirilla has quit IRC[22:19:36] <Ingenu> I'm usong large fonts just want HD for gfx[22:20:29] *** Kokito has quit IRC[22:21:28] <jmayfield_> i like my 30 inch monitor at work.. fullscreen vim![22:22:19] <largo> I'm lazy. :)[22:22:25] <largo> I don't want to have to try adjusting all my fonts...[22:22:34] <largo> and there are inevitably ones that get missed...[22:22:47] <largo> 1600x1200 is plenty of space for now.[22:23:03] <largo> plus it's the "native resolution" for my monitor supposedly.[22:23:06] * JonathanThompson was running his old P3 system with 19" monitors at 2048*1536....[22:23:14] <largo> above that things start to get a little less sharp.[22:23:36] <JonathanThompson> Had to borrow the Haiku Screen preferences and hack it onto my BeOS 5.03 setup, as BeOS doesn't support that natively.[22:24:08] *** nielx has left #haiku[22:24:21] <JonathanThompson> Why Be thought it'd be good to use enums for screen resolutions is beyond me: they should have worked with x*y* bit depth specs instead, with some large enough value for each one.[22:24:30] <largo> I just played through Far Cry again a week or two ago... ;) turned everything up as high as it would go... 2048x1536, 8x AA, 16x anisotropic filtering, HDR, glare, flares, self shadowing etc... stuff I had to tweak the config files for... :P[22:24:33] <JonathanThompson> And specify the aspect ratio of the display device as well.[22:24:45] <largo> still a pretty nice looking game for its age.[22:24:55] <jmayfield_> so my wife took off this morning in my car.. hehe. her first solo road trip in it..she was stoked[22:25:06] <Ingenu> 16bit x y[22:25:07] <largo> from 6 years ago.[22:25:19] <Ingenu> should be enough for some time ;)[22:25:50] <JonathanThompson> Possibly, but what if we start having electronic wallpaper displays? ;)[22:25:55] <Ingenu> largo: don't start crysis ^^[22:25:56] * martinhpedersen is away (Disconnected from bouncer...)[22:26:14] * JonathanThompson shoots martinhpedersen dead[22:26:21] <AlienSoldier> i play pacman with full detail[22:26:24] <Ingenu> bouncer ?[22:26:28] <Ingenu> lol[22:26:38] <largo> Ingenu: I've beat Crysis, and played through Warhead twice... once in English, once in Japanese. ;)[22:26:41] <largo> I love those games.[22:26:44] <largo> absolutely beautiful on here.[22:27:19] <largo> JonathanThompson: I just saw the ThinkGeek wifi detector t-shirt today. :P[22:27:27] * JonathanThompson loves some of the stupid poster's questions/replies on OS Snooze[22:27:50] <JonathanThompson> "How did writers survive the Xerox machine?"[22:28:04] <largo> Ingenu: it was actually the very first thing I did when I built this new machine. ;D hahaha[22:28:21] *** E-WolfShade has joined #haiku[22:28:26] <largo> (had to get my money's worth)[22:28:33] <JonathanThompson> Could it be: it cost so much time and effort that in all but the most exceptional cases, it was easier and cheaper to just buy the original book legitimately?[22:28:58] <JonathanThompson> (And you tended to end up with a worse quality copy than the original besides)[22:28:59] <largo> it's like movies... if I like a movie enough to keep it, I'll buy the DVD or whatever.[22:29:12] <Ingenu> largo good gfx card ?[22:29:17] *** jan__64 has quit IRC[22:29:19] <largo> and I'd rather have a professionally made book than a pile of crap photocopies.[22:29:24] *** jan__64 has joined #haiku[22:29:32] <largo> Ingenu: Radeon HD 4870 X2 (2GB)[22:29:33] *** brechtm has joined #haiku[22:29:44] <largo> it's a dual GPU card.[22:29:47] <JonathanThompson> Simply put: even with photocopiers, it's still far too involved to copy books to make it worthwhile.[22:29:48] <Ingenu> ah[22:30:00] <brechtm> hi[22:30:01] <largo> JonathanThompson: indeed.[22:30:10] <Ingenu> applying the "one processor is not enough" to gpu[22:30:11] <largo> brechtm: howdy :)[22:30:16] <largo> Ingenu: yep.[22:30:29] <largo> the problem is I have bad cooling in this machine... stock CPU cooler etc... :([22:30:35] <largo> it all runs hot...[22:30:44] <Ingenu> ah ?[22:30:51] <brechtm> largo: better hot than noisy, I'd say :)[22:30:53] *** humdinger has quit IRC[22:30:54] <largo> and with the bad CPU cooler if I put the system under full load it will spike up over 90C and even hit 100C if I sustain it.[22:30:58] <Ingenu> I run everything with stock coolers[22:31:03] <largo> so no running 8 instances of Folding@HOME :'( !![22:31:10] <Ingenu> but then I have a P180 case[22:31:20] <largo> I have an old Lian-Li PC70 full tower.[22:31:23] <JonathanThompson> Right: need to cut that down to only 7 instances, right?[22:31:23] <AlienSoldier> game console heat to much and have fan now, soon phone with also have fan[22:31:26] <largo> bought it ~8 years ago.[22:31:31] <jmayfield_> i havent been as anxious for an os update release as i am now in a long time[22:31:31] <Ingenu> stop wasting energy to find aliens would you ?[22:31:47] <ragcsi> my old pc used to overheat each summer[22:31:51] * JonathanThompson imagines people sharing calls on a cell phone in the winter to keep warm[22:31:54] <jmayfield_> android 2.1 update coming! heh[22:31:56] <ragcsi> it was fine in the winter tho :p[22:32:07] <largo> folding@home is protein folding simulations to help cure cancer and alzheimers etc. :P[22:32:16] <largo> little more immediately useful than searching for aliens.[22:32:19] <MadEchidna> jmayfield_: psh, I've had 2.1 on my HTC Kaiser for weeks :V[22:32:27] <jmayfield_> heh[22:32:33] <MadEchidna> of course that's a hack[22:32:46] <Ingenu> ah not seti[22:32:46] <MadEchidna> I flashed my phone with Linux, no more Windows Mobile :D[22:32:48] <largo> this machine seriously cranks out the heat.[22:32:59] <largo> I used to keep my room heated with just my computer and monitor. :P[22:33:01] <Ingenu> been so long I forgot those things[22:33:03] <MadEchidna> my other laptop over heats when the sun hits it[22:33:24] <MadEchidna> did you guys ever hear that story about the guy who originally designed BFS?[22:33:39] <MadEchidna> Supposedly he did over night stress tests on floppy disks[22:33:39] <Ingenu> got some heat related troubles I think[22:33:44] <Ingenu> really annoying[22:33:50] <largo> big old 22" Mitsubishi diamontron CRT... full tower with 750W PSU, dual GPU vid card, hot CPU, 6 HDD's, etc...[22:33:50] <MadEchidna> and he noticed they'd fail every morning at 6[22:33:54] *** Barrett has quit IRC[22:34:03] <MadEchidna> so he spent the night in the offices to see why the failure kept happening[22:34:06] <largo> system pours out heat just like a small room heater. :P[22:34:13] <MadEchidna> at 6am, lo and behold, a sun beam hit the disk drive[22:34:17] <MadEchidna> and it failed :P[22:34:17] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[22:34:20] <ragcsi> LOL[22:34:39] <largo> MadEchidna: haha... that's awesome. :D[22:34:42] <MadEchidna> yeah[22:34:46] <MadEchidna> gotta love Be lore[22:35:01] <MadEchidna> That's my favorite story after the epic hike to the beach that JLG lead[22:36:20] *** genki has quit IRC[22:37:10] <JonathanThompson> Got to love hardware :)[22:39:33] <largo> my CPU is idling at just over 50C[22:40:06] <largo> my video card is idling at 67C[22:40:14] <MadEchidna> how can you tell your cpu freq in haiku[22:40:18] <largo> so ~52C idle for my CPU, 67C for my GPU. :([22:40:29] <largo> MadEchidna: open the About dialog.[22:40:29] *** jan__64_ has joined #haiku[22:40:42] <largo> top of the main menu.[22:40:50] <largo> (whatever the main feather/leaf menu is called)[22:41:00] <MadEchidna> uh[22:41:02] <MadEchidna> I don't see any temps[22:41:04] * largo grumbles about the fleafther thing....[22:41:08] <largo> oh, temps.[22:41:17] <MadEchidna> hahah that's what I meant[22:41:17] <MadEchidna> sorry[22:41:20] <largo> I thought you meant frequency as in clock speed. :P[22:41:30] <MadEchidna> I said freq but I meant temp[22:41:44] <largo> ;)[22:41:53] <largo> I honestly don't know. I'm cheating... I'm in windows.[22:42:07] <MadEchidna> that's terrible[22:42:11] <largo> the atheroswifi drivers still hard lock my system.[22:42:18] <largo> so I run Haiku in Virtualbox for the time being.[22:42:24] <largo> kind of a show stopper bug for me. :([22:42:25] <kirilla> MadEchidna: epic hike? I think I missed that one[22:42:30] <largo> as I have no other means of getting on-line.[22:42:48] <MadEchidna> oh[22:43:01] <xcasex> kirilla: you filthy old bastard. are you spreading dissent among the plebs yet again?[22:43:16] <kirilla> xcasex: heh :)[22:43:21] <JonathanThompson> Didn't you know that's his primary hobby?[22:43:24] <vooshy> largo: i solved mine with a 15m cat6 cable[22:43:24] <MadEchidna> kirella: reportedly, JLG had an idea to take the whole Be team on a hike from their office in menlo park to the shore[22:43:37] <MadEchidna> and he told everyone to wear comfortable shoes[22:43:44] <MadEchidna> but a bunch of people wore new shoes anyway[22:43:46] <largo> vooshy: were this my house it would have long since been solved. ;)[22:43:47] <MadEchidna> blisters everywhere[22:43:52] <JonathanThompson> OH NO!!!!![22:43:52] *** jan__64 has quit IRC[22:43:55] <kirilla> haha[22:44:04] <MadEchidna> everyone finished though[22:44:28] <kirilla> fresh air and blisters <:)[22:44:47] <JonathanThompson> MadEchidna: is Saturn bigger than Uranus?[22:44:48] <largo> when I lived up north a few years back and moved from my apartment to a house kitty-corner on the same block, I ran a cat5 out my second story window of the apartment, across the yards, and into my new house for a week until I got the cable account setup at the new place. ;)[22:44:51] <largo> that was fun. :P[22:45:03] <kirilla> sounds like company picknick on the cheap though :P[22:45:13] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[22:45:53] <largo> here we're in an apartment above a 3 stall garage...[22:46:08] <largo> and my apartment is at the far end from where the AP is downstairs in the garage on top of a fridge.[22:46:55] *** E-WolfShade has quit IRC[22:47:16] <largo> so I'd have to run cat6 the length of the apt... down a hall, past a few doorways, crossing the hall, through the bathroom, through a wall into a crawlspace between the apartment and the main house, through a wiring hole in the floor, into the garage and down to the top of the fridge.[22:48:02] <JonathanThompson> Down the hallway and through the woods/To Grandmother's house we go!/This is the way/We rig up the sleigh/To run CAT6 wire, you know![22:48:10] <MadEchidna> cat6 what[22:48:23] <JonathanThompson> He was planning for the future ;)[22:49:00] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[22:49:04] <MadEchidna> heh[22:49:10] <largo> 15 meters from here to get to the hole in the floor... 3 or 4 more to make it to the AP.[22:49:24] * largo just got out the tape measure. ;)[22:49:40] * JonathanThompson idly wonders what's the measure of a largo[22:50:07] * largo resists impulse to make blue comment.[22:50:21] <MadEchidna> largo: I have a much simpler solution for you[22:50:32] <largo> MadEchidna: what's that?[22:50:33] <MadEchidna> just get a Linksys wrt router[22:50:38] <MadEchidna> and install DD-WRT on it[22:50:41] * largo is horribly procrastinating today...[22:50:41] <kirilla> bbl[22:50:42] <MadEchidna> then, set it up as a bridge[22:50:46] *** kirilla has quit IRC[22:50:46] <MadEchidna> that's how I used to use Haiku[22:50:55] <MadEchidna> then you can just use it like a normal router :D[22:51:16] <largo> MadEchidna: I might actually have the old Linksys AP in a box here... let me check.[22:51:20] *** kieselsteini|awa is now known as kieselsteini[22:51:22] <MadEchidna> sweet[22:51:24] <largo> but it's only G.[22:51:29] <MadEchidna> meh, who cares[22:51:30] <MadEchidna> not me[22:51:36] <vooshy> largo: pull the fridge in the garage out and use a powerline adapter into your apartment[22:51:42] <largo> the problem is still signal strength through the floor and walls[22:51:53] <largo> which is the reason I got the N access point and new wifi card.[22:51:57] <MadEchidna> oh[22:52:02] <largo> fixed my loss of signal.[22:52:17] <MadEchidna> well that's actually part of why I used the WRT instead of my wireless card[22:52:25] <largo> it's a good idea.[22:52:31] <MadEchidna> not only did it mean wired ethernet for Haiku, but I used it as a repeater[22:52:49] <MadEchidna> while I was getting one bar at best before, I got 4 bars with the wrt in repeater mode[22:52:50] <largo> I have 2 GBIT NICs in here gathering dust too. :P[22:53:03] <MadEchidna> so you might actually find it works okay :D[22:53:40] <MadEchidna> I used to live in a camper so I got wifi from the house[22:54:30] <largo> marvell_yukon[22:54:44] <largo> on the internal nics.[22:56:37] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[22:56:43] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[22:56:59] <MadEchidna> i wish I had a longer ethernet cable[22:57:04] <MadEchidna> this one is only 5 feet long[22:57:10] <MadEchidna> I have to sit hunched over :P[22:57:54] *** OlaHughson has quit IRC[22:57:58] <ragcsi> when's your birthday[22:58:05] <ragcsi> i'll get you a 10 feet long![22:58:29] <MadEchidna> August :|[23:02:29] <largo> :'([23:02:36] <largo> I have a 30 footer.[23:02:57] <largo> good for running across the room to my wifi music bridge when I need to configure it...[23:04:09] *** leszek has joined #haiku[23:04:28] <leszek> h[23:04:30] <leszek> i[23:04:38] <largo> :[23:04:39] <largo> )[23:06:02] <MadEchidna> ^[23:06:03] <MadEchidna> _[23:06:07] <MadEchidna> ^[23:06:08] <MadEchidna> so[23:06:37] <largo> my procrastinatory tendencies are overpowering me....[23:06:44] <largo> I feel like having another beer and playing a game...[23:07:10] <largo> when I should be working on this logo for a website I need to get done in the next day or two.... (small site for a friend's painting business)[23:11:21] <Ingenu> night[23:11:44] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:12:36] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[23:13:34] <ragcsi> largo: try and only keep a limited amount of beer in the fridge[23:13:45] <ragcsi> it works for me, if i don't buy much, i can't drink much :p[23:13:59] <largo> I just bought a 12 pack this morning. :/[23:14:05] <largo> and that IS limited for me. ;)[23:14:25] *** leszek has quit IRC[23:14:26] * largo is already on #3[23:14:32] <largo> but hey, it's happy hour here. :)[23:14:37] <largo> (6:18PM now)[23:15:49] <largo> ragcsi: I was actually going to try picking up O'Douls or something today... so I could have some non-alcoholic beers while I worked... I've never tried that before.[23:16:15] <largo> I know they exist... just never tried them. and they didn't have them where I picked up the beer today so I just got my regular old bud lights.[23:17:52] *** brechtm has quit IRC[23:18:02] *** impy has joined #haiku[23:18:07] <MadEchidna> largo: they have many other brands as well[23:18:18] <ragcsi> you don't wanna try non-alcoholic beer[23:18:21] <MadEchidna> the store by my apartment has at least 6 different brands[23:18:27] <ragcsi> i had one sip of it in my life[23:18:30] <ragcsi> and it was more than enough[23:18:32] <MadEchidna> I like odouls it's okay[23:18:34] <ragcsi> they taste like shit :/[23:18:38] <MadEchidna> but I don't see the point[23:18:39] <ragcsi> at least here they do[23:18:43] <MadEchidna> beer doesn't give me a buzz though[23:18:51] <MadEchidna> I can drink a whole six pack and it's like water[23:19:35] <largo> MadEchidna: same here.[23:22:35] <ragcsi> anyway, drinking non-alcoholic beer is the first step towards sex dolls :p[23:22:43] <stpere> lol[23:23:25] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[23:24:00] <vooshy> think the key is light beer, you need the strong stuff[23:24:31] <stpere> ragcsi : that's my new facebook status :P[23:24:55] <largo> ragcsi: ack! well I'm glad I'm drinking my real beer then. :)[23:26:11] <largo> oddly enough, I've found that bud ice, which is actually cheaper and has a higher alcohol content, gives me headaches. :([23:26:29] <largo> but even higher alc content stuff (like the microbrews my friend brings over) don't.[23:26:36] <largo> so I just stick with bud light. :)[23:27:14] <largo> I'm trying to balance the alc content with not getting fat. ;)[23:28:46] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[23:29:07] *** jan__64_ has quit IRC[23:31:18] <ragcsi> sigh[23:31:36] <ragcsi> time to continue my experiments, aka "how to boot my haiku day #2"[23:32:47] <vooshy> ragsci: what stage are you at?[23:33:27] <vooshy> or even ragcsi, sorry[23:34:39] <ragcsi> at the stage of despair and acceptance[23:35:04] <ragcsi> black screen after grub menu[23:35:18] <vooshy> give me the run down e.g. hardware, other os, mbr etc and i shall help[23:36:07] <ragcsi> mmkay its an asus 1101ha[23:36:34] <ragcsi> i have an ubuntu installed and a haiku[23:36:46] <ragcsi> one hard drive, 3 partitions, one for ubuntu, one for swap, one for haiku[23:37:15] <vooshy> ragcsi: ok where did you download haiku from? and which type?[23:38:02] <ragcsi> nightly, gcc2 hybrid[23:38:10] <ragcsi> latest build[23:38:25] <vooshy> cd or raw or anyboot?[23:38:33] <ragcsi> raw[23:39:00] <vooshy> ok, what did you install from usb stick?[23:40:26] <ragcsi> whatever the installer installed[23:41:40] *** StreaK|ON has quit IRC[23:43:00] <vooshy> ragcsi: do you have your grub config file?[23:44:03] <ragcsi> jsec[23:44:15] <ragcsi> let me set up my netbook here[23:48:02] * martinhpedersen is away (Disconnected from bouncer...)[23:52:06] *** ragcsi_ has joined #haiku[23:52:20] <ragcsi_> http://pastebin.com/FC71jNjB[23:53:25] *** idefix_haiku has joined #haiku[23:53:42] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC[23:57:31] *** Kroki has quit IRC[23:58:28] <vooshy> ragcsi_: http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/adding_haiku_grub2_menu[23:58:47] <ragcsi> yeah, ive done this[23:58:55] <vooshy> right at the bottom there is something about adding an EOF ?[23:59:41] <ragcsi> i had that problem too, its a problem with update-grub