March 12, 2010 
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March 12, 2010 [00:01:14] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[00:02:31] *** willll has quit IRC[00:02:53] *** RaZzB3RrY has quit IRC[00:04:04] <DraX> martinhpedersen: hoorah for twitter client \o/[00:04:05] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[00:04:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[00:04:13] <DraX> martinhpedersen: there was some feature i wanted but i forgot what it was :D[00:05:03] <martinhpedersen> Thanks DraX!;) Let me know if it comes to mind! :D[00:06:09] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[00:06:56] <DraX> infopopper integration might be nice but that wasn't it[00:07:17] *** PathagenX has quit IRC[00:07:59] <martinhpedersen> Oops, got disconnected from the bouncer;p Anything I missed?:p[00:08:30] <DraX> infopopper integration might be nice but that wasn't it[00:09:54] <martinhpedersen> infopopper integration seems like a good idea! Didn't even know there was an infopopper, but I will check it out:)[00:10:29] <mmadia> there's even been plans to integrate infopopper into Haiku itself.[00:10:32] <DraX> there has been some talk of making it a real api i think[00:10:36] <DraX> what mmadia said :D[00:11:04] <mmadia> http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/GoogleSummerOfCodeIdeas?version=25[00:11:16] * mmu_man has some long term plans about a task oriented API...[00:11:39] <DraX> that didn't make it on the official list though did it?[00:11:51] <mmu_screen> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/TrackerTasksMockup.png[00:12:17] <DraX> mmu_screen: that would be nice, especially instead of the download window in web+[00:12:35] <mmu_man> yeah, each app has its own task handler...[00:12:51] <mmu_man> eventually they could be grouped by app[00:13:00] <mmu_man> and expanded like Deskbar's expando[00:13:16] <mmu_man> bbl[00:13:18] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:13:38] <AlienSoldier> mmu_screen exactly what i mentioned in the webpositive comment, ryan mentioned he was having that in mind also, but your mockup is exactly what i was having in mind[00:15:54] <martinhpedersen> A api integrated into Haiku for notifications would be fantastic... like growl or something ;)[00:15:58] <DraX> might be nice to make it more bubbles than a window though[00:16:05] <DraX> not sure[00:18:41] <martinhpedersen> yeah, don't know how bubbles would look on haiku... could be interesting though ;p[00:19:03] <DraX> yeah it's hard[00:19:06] <DraX> you want a notification[00:19:13] <DraX> ie, something that actually gets your attention[00:19:18] <DraX> but for it to see haikuish[00:20:22] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35819 /haiku/trunk/src/tools/fs_shell/fuse.cpp: Build fix (on 64 bit hosts).[00:20:56] *** mmlr_mc has joined #haiku[00:21:38] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[00:23:01] <martinhpedersen> Hehe, and not be too anoying;p[00:23:09] <DraX> yeah[00:23:17] <DraX> though isn't that implied in haikuish? ;)[00:23:43] <martinhpedersen> Good point;)[00:24:12] <margiolas> hello can I have the link with the gsoc ideas? (I am not on my pc and I can't find the link[00:24:38] <mmadia> http://www.haiku-os.org/community/gsoc/2010[00:25:15] <margiolas> thanks[00:27:11] <Kokito> martinhpedersen, notification system for BeOS/Haiku: http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/infopopper[00:28:42] <margiolas> I have checked in the past some ideas is it positive to send a mail on the list with my approach on an idea?[00:28:48] *** willll has joined #haiku[00:28:57] <mmadia> most definitely margiolas.[00:30:04] <mmadia> by discussing and researching ideas sooner, you will be better prepared.[00:30:10] <martinhpedersen> Thanks Kokito:) So this infopopper, is it commonly used? I mean, is it worth a days work?:)[00:30:23] <AlienSoldier> the ide list this time is really good, other than abiword that i could liek without, it's pretty much nice thing to have[00:30:30] <AlienSoldier> *live[00:30:43] <AlienSoldier> *idea[00:30:53] <margiolas> mmadia:hm ok but i am considering about my experience on haiku, I have good experience with system development(basically on linux) but on haiku I have limited experiece[00:31:13] <Kokito> martinhpedersen, I used it a lot in ZETA, but never in Haiku.[00:31:38] <Kokito> martinhpedersen, according to http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/infopopper/news it does "run on Haiku very fine" ;)[00:31:44] <mmadia> do you build your own Haiku images, margiolas?[00:32:31] <mmadia> ... as that would be a good starting point.[00:32:32] <margiolas> mmadia: I have been playing with haiku some months now[00:32:40] <martinhpedersen> Ok, I have been thinking about a notification system for HaikuTwitter for a while... so I guess it's worth looking into :)[00:32:45] <margiolas> i have played with apis etc...[00:32:48] *** Cian has quit IRC[00:34:03] <vooshy> margiolas: out of curiosity, any examples?[00:34:25] *** daste has quit IRC[00:34:28] *** PasNox has quit IRC[00:35:24] *** mmadia42 has joined #haiku[00:35:27] *** mmadia has quit IRC[00:35:37] *** mmadia42 is now known as mmadia[00:36:59] <DraX> temacs builds again[00:37:07] <margiolas> vooshy: I have wrote some examples with appliation kit...[00:37:11] <DraX> lets see it fail horribly trying to byte-compile[00:37:35] <margiolas> and two days now i have started searching the kernel code...[00:37:53] <margiolas> I aim to take o deeper look in the weekend[00:38:41] *** zmisc has left #haiku[00:38:46] <vooshy> margiolas: not that i have any sway over who they choose, but sounds like you know enough to me[00:38:54] <margiolas> I have to say I am not a beos fun (I have never used beos) but I find the plilosophy of haiku instrdting[00:39:01] <DraX> margiolas: anything on the list you're particulalry interested in?[00:40:36] <margiolas> Drax:mayby the bootman expansion or the ext3 filesystem support[00:40:53] <margiolas> I had read in a older list version about arm port...[00:42:03] <mmadia> yes, i was pretty aggressive with trimming the ideas list.[00:43:20] <margiolas> mmadia: but i believe that arm port (or any arch port) mayby is something huge for a 3 month period[00:44:04] <mmadia> yes, i've concerns on mentor availability for it.[00:44:51] <margiolas> I have written a simplified os on a lego nxt (peripheral drivers etc) and I think it's huge work for a real os port[00:45:34] <mmadia> right, we're also open to the idea of doing a specific group of tasks within a very large task.[00:47:19] <DraX> sofar so good on emacs compile..[00:47:27] *** ecin has quit IRC[00:47:28] <AlienSoldier> looking at the bug tracker with all those color, it feel like a big complex tetris game you must clean all the bug before going to the next level (R1)[00:48:05] <mmu_screen> AlienSoldier: the mockup is years old :p[00:48:26] <AlienSoldier> mmu_screen it's been years i requested it also :P[00:49:57] <AlienSoldier> mmu_screen i mentioned it again lately because there is so much app needing "downloader" lately that it would be a good time to do it, or else everything will have his own eventually and it will angain be status quo.[00:50:12] <AlienSoldier> *again[00:50:41] <AlienSoldier> nothing kill an OS better than the good enough situation :)[00:51:09] <margiolas> mmadia: also i think it will be useful (for developers) an integration of hardware events on process monitoring[00:51:20] <margiolas> eg: L1/L2 cache misses[00:52:42] * AlienSoldier fear toyota pedal tread joining psycho killer[00:56:53] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[00:56:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[00:57:18] * martinhpedersen is away (Disconnected from bouncer...)[01:01:19] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[01:01:22] *** OlaHughson has quit IRC[01:07:43] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[01:15:10] *** Andrius has quit IRC[01:18:41] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[01:19:59] *** mmlr_mc has quit IRC[01:23:43] <l_n> DraX: temacs?[01:24:29] *** petterhj- has quit IRC[01:24:38] <l_n> n/m[01:25:03] *** romulo has joined #haiku[01:25:05] <l_n> i have to wonder how difficult it would be to inject the pdump code into gnu emacs[01:25:08] <romulo> im back[01:25:13] <l_n> since that seems to be the main issue[01:26:16] <DraX> uhh, no it's not[01:26:23] <Skipp_OSX> I would like to see notification support[01:26:48] <DraX> the issue actually changes every time i try and build emacs[01:26:56] <DraX> but it's generally some form of infinite loop somewhere[01:27:03] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[01:27:05] <Skipp_OSX> what are the chances of infopopper getting included in tree?[01:27:39] <romulo> can someone point me development tutorials for haiku? Im a professional C++ developer btw. Been using C++ for the last 6 years.[01:28:44] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[01:29:08] <vooshy> romulo: ive got net problems at the moment, but there is documentation on the haiku api on the website[01:29:41] <romulo> but some introductional tutorial too?[01:30:08] <romulo> i wish i knew more about networking, have wpa/wpa2 would be awesome (since i already have an atheros card btw :P[01:30:26] <vooshy> the blog on the website has started some tutorials but they are beginner c++[01:30:49] <romulo> hmm, if it messes with the api i dont mind :P[01:31:15] <vooshy> darkwyrm i think is the username[01:31:51] *** noldsel has quit IRC[01:32:00] <Skipp_OSX> romulo, well http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/programming_the_be_operating_system.pdf is a book from 1999 about programming the BeOS[01:32:35] <Skipp_OSX> romulo, but it is more about application programming than driver programming[01:33:20] *** aldeck has quit IRC[01:33:27] <romulo> i see[01:33:41] <romulo> downloading anyway[01:33:48] <romulo> should the beos samples be any use?[01:34:16] <Skipp_OSX> romulo, my best suggestion is to go to http://www.haiku-os.org/articles and find something that looks helpful for what you are trying to do[01:34:20] <romulo> for me, haiku looks likely to be more successful (in desktops) than linux, mainly because everytihng is integrated[01:34:45] <romulo> a graphicall package installer would be awesome[01:35:25] <Skipp_OSX> romulo, one is in the planning stage[01:35:30] <romulo> ah cool[01:36:05] <Skipp_OSX> romulo, actually the idea as discussed on the mailing list is pretty cool[01:36:16] <Skipp_OSX> romulo, it is kind of like Mac OS X packages with a twist[01:36:23] <Skipp_OSX> errr bundles[01:36:52] <romulo> dmg's installation are cool[01:36:52] <Skipp_OSX> however, apps aren't self contained like on OS X, but they appear to be to the user[01:36:57] <romulo> something like that would be awesome[01:39:08] <Skipp_OSX> romulo, here is a link: http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/PackageManagerIdeas[01:41:13] *** os_not_found has joined #haiku[01:41:42] <os_not_found> what feature had been added since de alpha release?[01:41:50] <os_not_found> de =the[01:43:29] <Skipp_OSX> os_not_found, well, the two main areas of improvment have been the locale kit and the layout kit, but there have also been many speed ups done by Ingo, unencrypted wireless support added[01:44:05] *** margiolas has quit IRC[01:44:49] <os_not_found> for what languages there are locales[01:44:54] <os_not_found> ?[01:45:20] <Skipp_OSX> os_not_found, here is a better source: http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/R1/ImprovementsSinceAlpha1[01:45:29] <os_not_found> ok[01:45:42] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[01:46:03] <os_not_found> in your opinion would you consider worth to build from source?[01:46:10] <os_not_found> just for using it?[01:46:20] <Skipp_OSX> os_not_found, well... you can download a nightly build[01:46:30] <os_not_found> mmhhh[01:46:45] <os_not_found> how updated it is[01:47:16] *** Geoz has quit IRC[01:47:17] <Skipp_OSX> os_not_found, http://haiku-files.org/[01:47:39] <Skipp_OSX> os_not_found, well the nightly's are updated... nightly, so it will be almost as updated as it can get[01:47:44] <Kokito> os_not_found, nightlies are updated daily :)[01:48:16] <os_not_found> nightly = nightly[01:48:24] <os_not_found> that was a fool question[01:48:32] <os_not_found> :-)[01:49:30] <os_not_found> can i down using Bittorrent ?[01:49:36] <Skipp_OSX> os_not_found, if you just want to try out a nightly, I'd suggest grabbing the vmware image and loading it up in virtual box[01:49:54] <os_not_found> vmware != virtualbox[01:50:08] <os_not_found> but i did understand your point[01:50:27] <Skipp_OSX> os_not_found, virtualbox can read vmware disk images though[01:50:34] <os_not_found> ehh?[01:50:39] <os_not_found> i never know[01:50:46] <os_not_found> about it[01:51:24] <os_not_found> thanks[01:52:01] <os_not_found> about BT ?[01:53:06] <Skipp_OSX> I don't understand[01:54:31] <os_not_found> download via bittorrent[01:54:52] <os_not_found> i dont like FTP/HTTP download[01:55:14] <os_not_found> i cant use all my bandwidith sometimes[01:55:15] <Skipp_OSX> os_not_found, sorry, I don't know of any[01:55:20] <Kokito> os_not_found, I don't know of nightly torrents, but you never know[01:55:32] <os_not_found> aplha 1 torrent ?[01:55:39] <Kokito> yes[01:56:13] <Kokito> somewhere here os_not_found: http://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku[01:56:13] <os_not_found> How the haiku ui should be , i want to help to improve haiku?[01:56:45] <Skipp_OSX> os_not_found, http://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku has alpha1 torrents[01:56:50] <os_not_found> ok[01:56:59] <os_not_found> about my other question[01:57:03] <Skipp_OSX> well, I gtg, sorry[01:57:08] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[01:57:09] <helf|laptop> hi[01:57:35] <os_not_found> How the haiku ui should be , i want to help to improve haiku?[01:57:39] <DraX> romulo: at this point the best documentation is probably UTSL :/[01:57:47] <os_not_found> link ?[01:58:15] <os_not_found> by the detecting problems in the apps ui[01:58:33] <os_not_found> and filing bugs[01:59:36] <vooshy> os_not_found: http://dev.haiku-os.org create an account, download haiku nightlies and each bug report in trac[01:59:47] <os_not_found> yes[02:00:04] <os_not_found> but i my point is how i recognize a ui bug[02:00:15] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[02:00:58] <vooshy> os_not_found: either will be obvious to yourself or haiku will enter KDL[02:01:19] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[02:01:56] <CIA-50> scottmc * r633 /haikuports/trunk/dev-lang/python/ (patches/python-2.6.5.patch python-2.6.5.bep): Initial .bep and patch files for python-2.6.5 (rc2)[02:02:04] <os_not_found> whats K D L[02:02:12] <helf|laptop> kernel debuger land[02:02:14] <helf|laptop> *debugger[02:02:19] <os_not_found> ahh[02:02:33] <helf|laptop> aka haiku/beos version of BSOD[02:03:10] <os_not_found> actually is not blue[02:03:18] <os_not_found> but black[02:03:39] <os_not_found> how it is the KDL[02:03:58] <helf|laptop> I said haikus *version* :p and BSOD can mean black or blue ;)[02:04:03] *** oco has quit IRC[02:04:04] <helf|laptop> iirc, its black in vista/windows 7. heh[02:04:13] <os_not_found> is the system still usable to limeted point[02:04:14] <os_not_found> ?[02:04:38] <helf|laptop> i think its pretty much dead until a reboot. but you might be able to tell it to 'continue' and itll keep going[02:04:40] *** dancxjo has joined #haiku[02:04:41] <helf|laptop> but i dunno how often that works[02:05:06] <os_not_found> you get KDL when ______________________ ?[02:05:20] <helf|laptop> when something goes horribly wrong :p[02:05:31] *** dancxjo has left #haiku[02:08:46] *** triplez has quit IRC[02:09:07] *** vooshy has quit IRC[02:15:56] * JonathanThompson poits helf|laptop[02:16:51] <helf|laptop> yo[02:16:59] <JonathanThompson> oy[02:17:25] <JonathanThompson> What's going on?[02:17:39] <helf|laptop> sitting at home preparing to put a lot of stuff on eBay[02:17:41] <helf|laptop> including my NeXT[02:17:46] <helf|laptop> finally decided to part with it. lol[02:17:52] * JonathanThompson falls over from shock[02:18:00] <helf|laptop> I think I prefer a better car than an old computer at the moment[02:18:08] <OmniMancer1> :P[02:18:16] <OmniMancer1> maybe you just prefer haiku :P[02:18:21] <helf|laptop> I can probably sell my collection for $500 or better[02:18:25] <JonathanThompson> You mean you like not having to push your car?[02:18:40] <helf|laptop> between that, the few other things im selling, i should be able to pay my loan off in like 4 months and then get another one and get better wheels[02:18:40] <helf|laptop> :p[02:18:44] <helf|laptop> no, my vans pretty reliable[02:18:48] <helf|laptop> but it gets 12mpg right now[02:18:53] <helf|laptop> and the engine is getting nosy[02:18:55] <helf|laptop> noisy[02:18:55] <helf|laptop> :p[02:18:58] <helf|laptop> 12mpg = suck[02:19:11] <JonathanThompson> That's better gas mileage than YOU get :p[02:19:17] <helf|laptop> it still sucks[02:19:18] <helf|laptop> :p[02:20:05] <helf|laptop> I may put the onyx2 on eBay. dunno how that will ever sell, tho[02:20:10] <helf|laptop> itll have to be local pickup only :p[02:21:23] * JonathanThompson sometimes thinks it'd be better if Objective-C crashed an app that tried to send a message to a null object...[02:25:02] <CIA-50> scottmc * r634 /haikuports/trunk/app-arch/tar/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Initial .bep file for tar-1.23, it's not yet working.[02:25:55] <AlienSoldier> helf|laptop make it local pick up, hot chick only... and 70s' funky music in the background[02:27:18] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[02:27:23] <romulo> nice package manager description[02:27:30] <helf|laptop> lol AlienSoldier[02:28:50] <helf|laptop> AlienSoldier, playing ballroom blitz[02:29:39] <DraX> damnit, segfault trying to bytecompile some cedet el file[02:30:13] <DraX> sig11[02:30:35] *** triplez has joined #haiku[02:31:40] <os_not_found> any good games for haiku?[02:32:37] <DraX> trying to compile random things is a good game[02:33:03] <JonathanThompson> Sure to get a random response on an alpha system![02:33:22] <OmniMancer1> os_not_found: not really, depends what you classify as good[02:35:22] <AlienSoldier> os_not_found not much my kind of game but there is free civ and a bunch of emulated game[02:37:43] *** Freakazoid has joined #haiku[02:39:40] <OmniMancer1> and I think ScummVM has been ported sort of[02:39:53] <AlienSoldier> not just sort of[02:40:02] <OmniMancer1> I think if I start some games programming I shall try on haiku so that we get something to play :P even if its terrible[02:40:43] <AlienSoldier> can't be worst than eugenia SDL game port[02:40:51] <AlienSoldier> *ports[02:41:35] <JonathanThompson> Oh, sure it can! :p[02:41:51] <JonathanThompson> All depends on whether OmniMancer1 creates a new game, or recreates something already done :D[02:42:05] <AlienSoldier> some good one i don't know if htey work, kobo delux, spijynx (or something like that) and deluxe snake[02:42:11] <helf|laptop> eugenia..[02:42:16] <helf|laptop> that woman is annoying :p[02:42:42] * JonathanThompson detects a larger pattern from people associated with the samesite...[02:43:09] <AlienSoldier> and there is worm, another one i did not test[02:43:55] * romulo is a games programmer[02:44:37] <DraX> grr, nightly haiku didn't help :([02:45:03] * AlienSoldier want Karateka vs Capcom :P[02:45:59] <DraX> i think this is the same place it failed last time :/[02:46:30] <AlienSoldier> i can't boot it anymore on my test PC from many nightly now[02:46:34] <Kokito> DraX, what problem are you having?[02:47:45] <DraX> signal 11 when i try and byte-compile cedet/srecode/mode.el[02:48:03] <Kokito> ah... that's way over my head :)[02:50:18] <DraX> i wonder if i can remove cedet from the build[02:52:07] <Kokito> you probably could, but the questions whether you should :)[02:52:36] <OmniMancer1> romulo: write haiku game?[02:54:13] <DraX> haiku mention.. sort of http://aruiz.synaptia.net/siliconisland/2010/03/if-i-was-microsoft.html[02:56:14] <helf|laptop> lol[02:56:17] <helf|laptop> OS ballot[02:56:18] <helf|laptop> thats great[02:56:32] *** noldsel has joined #haiku[03:00:09] *** Disreali_away has joined #haiku[03:01:51] <os_not_found> imagine a BSOD[03:01:51] *** Disreali_ has quit IRC[03:02:06] <os_not_found> recommending to switch to haiku[03:02:28] <os_not_found> or another os[03:02:36] <os_not_found> it would be great[03:04:06] <os_not_found> exacption at adress 0x0679797 ... lot of hex ... to solv the problem you could reboot (wont work ha ha) or switch to any of these oses[03:04:16] <os_not_found> haiku[03:04:20] <os_not_found> freebsd[03:04:22] <os_not_found> linux[03:04:25] <os_not_found> reactos[03:05:31] <romulo> reactos is no more[03:05:36] <os_not_found> why ?[03:05:44] <romulo> uh....read the news :P[03:05:50] <os_not_found> where[03:06:48] <os_not_found> link please[03:07:17] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku[03:08:42] *** danlarkin has quit IRC[03:09:37] *** Disreali_away has quit IRC[03:10:15] <romulo> ops[03:10:19] <romulo> confunded reactos :P[03:10:25] <romulo> with skyos :P[03:10:42] <romulo> infact reactos is better now[03:13:02] <AlienSoldier> those freaking "share this" pull down menu are the new pop up :([03:14:00] <os_not_found> do you know any osdev irc channel[03:14:16] <os_not_found> im banned from #osdev[03:18:07] *** wildur has quit IRC[03:19:43] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[03:20:49] <os_not_found> ??[03:22:27] <romulo> just by reading that haiku is completely written in c++ makes me happy[03:22:30] <romulo> and love it instantly[03:23:13] <OmniMancer1> :P[03:23:37] <OmniMancer1> AlienSoldier: make a blocker for them![03:23:49] <romulo> do we have boost?[03:23:52] *** ZeroXp has joined #haiku[03:25:12] <OmniMancer1> um[03:25:27] <OmniMancer1> I would like to say that since we have gcc4 some of the boost libs will run[03:25:39] <ZeroXp> hi[03:25:45] <ZeroXp> i need help[03:26:11] <romulo> im still trying to find a IDE good as visual studio[03:26:15] <romulo> mainly because of intellisense[03:26:47] <OmniMancer1> well in my opinion you should be able to write without it[03:26:55] <OmniMancer1> and codeblocks sort of has intellisense[03:27:21] <OmniMancer1> and hopefully the IDE someone makes using clang at some point in time will be awesome and destroy VS with its awesomeness[03:29:01] <romulo> sometime is not now :P[03:29:14] <romulo> i mainly use vim to develop, but viEmu inside visual studio[03:29:31] <romulo> nothing beats visual studio + visual assist for c++[03:29:35] <romulo> im trying to get used to emacs now[03:30:25] <OmniMancer1> :P don't get too used to it so far it doesn't work on haiku :P[03:30:44] * largo returns...[03:30:51] <OmniMancer1> yay largo :P[03:30:58] <largo> :D[03:31:49] *** ormandj has joined #haiku[03:32:19] <romulo> it doesnt work *yet*[03:32:20] <romulo> :D[03:32:41] <romulo> also im going to try eclipse and monodevelop[03:32:45] <romulo> they say good stuff about them[03:33:03] * largo eating some breakfast... then catching up on email and news etc.. then back to Haiku hacking.[03:33:21] <OmniMancer1> I think emacs is rather badly implemented in some ways :P[03:48:20] *** helf|laptop has quit IRC[03:49:23] *** Freakazoid has quit IRC[03:50:22] *** helf|laptop has joined #haiku[03:59:20] *** romulo has quit IRC[03:59:47] *** noldsel has quit IRC[04:14:00] *** ZeroXp has quit IRC[04:16:36] *** stargater has quit IRC[04:29:46] *** noldsel has joined #haiku[04:37:38] *** os_not_found has quit IRC[05:02:58] *** Disreali_away has joined #haiku[05:04:51] *** Disreali_ has quit IRC[05:05:27] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[05:11:19] *** MaxSuede has joined #haiku[05:11:45] *** MaxSuede has quit IRC[05:11:57] *** Advant has quit IRC[05:12:56] <l_n> DraX: i could've sworn you had said that emacs not dumping was one of the major problems with it..[05:13:12] * l_n is trusting his memory less and less these days..[05:18:08] *** Advant has joined #haiku[05:23:09] <CIA-50> scottmc * r635 /haikuports/trunk/dev-libs/apr-util/apr-util-1.3.9.bep: Updated .bep file for apr-util-1.3.9, this one seems to work, at least on gcc2.[05:23:22] *** ecin has joined #haiku[05:33:35] <DraX> l_n: that's an issue, but emacs supports not dumping[05:33:37] <DraX> l_n: the real issue is that it just doesn't work, for example it's segfaulting while trying to byte-compile cedet/srecode/mode.el[05:40:37] *** Kokito has quit IRC[05:49:02] <largo> bleh. I'm still having issues with this. :( every time I try pulling the svn haiku tree, it gets part way through after like 5 minutes... and then the system just suddenly slows to an almost freeze... just barely crawling...[05:49:11] <largo> I'm not out of memory... the CPUs aren't pegged...[05:49:28] <DraX> i've heard reports of that before i think[05:49:33] <DraX> always on real hardware also i think[05:49:33] <mmadia> does processcontroller show any unusual cpu activity?[05:49:39] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku[05:49:42] <largo> I got a KDL earlier when doing it.[05:49:56] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/haiku/handles.png[05:50:03] <largo> I'm in virtualbox doing it.[05:50:09] <largo> so I can get an easy screenshot. :)[05:50:30] <mmadia> oh hey, i've seen those panics too![05:50:40] <mmadia> can you dev.haiku-os.org/newticket this?[05:51:04] <largo> sure.[05:51:08] <mmadia> you can assign it to axel, as it's part of block_cache.cpp[05:51:15] <largo> k[05:52:26] *** joeyadams has joined #haiku[05:52:43] <CIA-50> scottmc * r636 /haikuports/trunk/sys-devel/flex/flex-2.5.35.bep: Fixed .bep for flex-2.5.35[06:00:37] <largo> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5562 good enough?[06:01:34] <mmadia> it's a good rule to include the actual panic message in the description or title.[06:01:45] <mmadia> this'll help reduce duplicates,[06:02:08] <largo> "PANIC: could not allocate parent"[06:02:09] <largo> that one?[06:02:23] <mmadia> yup[06:02:26] <largo> k[06:02:54] <mmadia> and upload a syslog too[06:03:26] <largo> PANIC: could not allocate parent - KDL (system slows to an almost freeze or kernel panics when checking out haiku svn trunk.)[06:03:34] <largo> or should I put the latter part in the body itself.[06:03:41] <largo> I'm trying to get the syslog at the moment. ;)[06:03:57] <mmadia> open /var/log/syslog[06:04:23] <largo> the system is basically frozen.[06:04:36] <largo> I was able to "car /var/log/syslog > syslogfoo.txt"[06:04:44] <largo> but it looks like it pretty much locked solid after that.[06:04:55] <largo> the clock still says 5 minutes ago. :/[06:05:29] <largo> if I kill it, will the file still be there?[06:05:43] <mmadia> yeah, there may be a syslog.old too.[06:06:25] <largo> k, I'll kill it, restart, and grab those.[06:12:18] <l_n> largo: what revision?[06:12:38] * l_n just updated svn to update his installs[06:13:55] <largo> r35808[06:16:01] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[06:21:12] *** the_ringmaster has joined #haiku[06:21:53] <the_ringmaster> can someone tell me what's going on here. I'm trying to build a simple haiku iso image. I've compiled with gcc4 http://pastebin.com/tWLNMBVs[06:24:52] <l_n> the_ringmaster: what was the ../.../path/to/haiku/src/haiku/configure command line you used?[06:25:32] <the_ringmaster> "./configure --build-cross-tools-gcc4 x86 ../buildtools/"[06:25:33] <l_n> wow.. i'm slipping.. i haven't used a metasyntactic variable in foo days.[06:25:55] <l_n> is there a reason you're building gcc4 only?[06:26:09] <the_ringmaster> just to see if I can even do it[06:26:11] <l_n> (since gcc2hybrid is the official recommendation and preferred method)[06:26:32] <the_ringmaster> once I successfully build it, I've move to userbuildconfig[06:27:03] <l_n> okay.. i would recommend the hybrid for compatibility reasons (older beos apps need the gcc2 libs IIRC)[06:27:18] *** MyChemicalSweatp has joined #haiku[06:27:29] <the_ringmaster> are there building issues with gcc4 or something?[06:27:37] <l_n> so, mkdir -p /path/to/src/tree/generated.x86gcc{2,4}[06:27:47] <the_ringmaster> I have cdrkit installed, so I know it can make an iso image[06:28:12] <l_n> the_ringmaster: beos never made it past gcc2, so anything built for beos r5 or zeta won't run on haiku if you don't use a gcc2hybrid.[06:28:26] <the_ringmaster> I never said I was going to run legacy apps[06:28:30] *** willll has quit IRC[06:28:54] <largo> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5562 updated with syslog etc.[06:29:10] <the_ringmaster> l_n: what does that command do, and is it in the documentation[06:29:15] <mmadia> the_ringmaster : what revision are you trying to build and from what os?[06:29:23] <the_ringmaster> hi mmadia[06:29:23] <MyChemicalSweatp> hey is haiku installable on recent AMD hardware or am i going to have to build an intel box[06:29:36] <jmayfield_> uh..[06:30:07] <the_ringmaster> I'm building whever it was this morning[06:30:10] <l_n> the_ringmaster: yes.. http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/gcc-hybrid[06:30:12] <the_ringmaster> can't seem to find the number[06:30:31] <l_n> the mkdir -p simply creates every dir in the path argument until it gets to the end[06:30:50] <mmadia> you can do `cd <into haiku source> ; svn info `[06:30:51] <l_n> the {2,4} makes two separate dirs[06:31:06] <CIA-50> augiedoggie * r637 /haikuports/trunk/dev-util/global/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Update global to 5.8.1[06:31:18] <the_ringmaster> 35818[06:31:23] <the_ringmaster> it tells me[06:32:24] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[06:33:49] <the_ringmaster> i'll read more and try again tomorrow[06:34:40] *** the_ringmaster has quit IRC[06:38:02] *** CK|iPod has joined #haiku[06:38:42] *** joeyadams has quit IRC[06:38:51] <l_n> meh.. ich brauche schlafen. gn8[06:39:01] <largo> gutenacht[06:39:36] *** l_n has quit IRC[06:48:13] *** Bushmills has quit IRC[06:48:50] *** MyChemicalSweatp has quit IRC[06:49:05] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[06:51:39] <CIA-50> scottmc * r638 /haikuports/trunk/dev-util/mercurial/ (mercurial-1.5.bep mercurial.OptionalPackageDescription): Initial .bep file for mercurial-1.5[06:53:40] *** Bushmills has joined #haiku[07:01:56] *** joeyadams has joined #haiku[07:03:04] *** [Katisu]_m has joined #haiku[07:03:54] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[07:05:28] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[07:05:28] *** [Katisu]_m is now known as [Katisu][07:13:28] *** panopticon has quit IRC[07:16:55] *** mmadia42 has joined #haiku[07:16:55] *** mmadia has quit IRC[07:18:43] *** mmadia42 has quit IRC[07:21:06] *** sprma has joined #haiku[07:23:52] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[07:26:10] *** sprma has quit IRC[07:26:20] *** Advant has quit IRC[07:27:33] *** CK|iPod_ has joined #haiku[07:27:33] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC[07:27:34] *** CK|iPod_ is now known as CK|iPod[07:28:06] <CIA-50> scottmc * r639 /haikuports/trunk/sys-devel/flex/flex-2.5.35.bep: Fixed the multiple src_uri so that it actually works now.[07:30:34] <CIA-50> augiedoggie * r640 /haikuporter/trunk/haikuporter: Change the way that the DESTDIR gets passed to the spawned shell.[07:30:56] *** Advant has joined #haiku[07:31:46] *** noldsel has quit IRC[07:32:16] <CIA-50> augiedoggie * r641 /haikuports/trunk/dev-util/mercurial/mercurial-1.5.bep: Modified the mercurial-1.5 bep file to allow automatic packaging.[07:38:17] *** CK|iPod_ has joined #haiku[07:38:17] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC[07:38:18] *** CK|iPod_ is now known as CK|iPod[07:40:56] <CIA-50> augiedoggie * r642 /haikuports/trunk/dev-util/mercurial/mercurial-1.5.bep: Fix typos for mercurial-1.5 bep file[07:46:28] *** joeyadams has quit IRC[07:51:51] *** ecin has quit IRC[07:53:23] *** MrBIO829 has joined #haiku[07:53:23] *** MrBIOS-hm has quit IRC[07:58:21] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[08:08:59] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC[08:20:19] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[08:25:07] *** Nozy has quit IRC[08:27:24] *** e-jones has joined #haiku[08:28:33] *** The123king has joined #haiku[08:29:49] *** The123king has quit IRC[08:39:23] *** MattLacey has joined #haiku[08:50:58] <MattLacey> anybody know much about the layout manageR?[08:52:26] *** Blub\0 has quit IRC[09:03:52] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[09:14:27] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[09:14:52] *** greenshift has joined #haiku[09:24:01] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[09:39:16] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[09:49:02] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[09:51:59] *** MattLacey has quit IRC[09:57:21] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[10:06:01] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[10:10:31] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[10:18:02] *** Blub\0 has joined #haiku[10:28:07] *** Blub\0 has quit IRC[10:30:03] *** Malmis has quit IRC[10:30:58] *** Blub\0 has joined #haiku[10:36:00] *** Malmis has joined #haiku[10:37:13] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[10:50:51] *** Malmis has quit IRC[10:54:41] *** mmlr_e71 has joined #haiku[10:55:58] *** Malmis has joined #haiku[10:56:39] *** smooki has joined #haiku[10:59:00] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[11:03:23] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[11:05:49] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[11:09:37] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[11:11:04] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[11:11:19] *** greenshift_ has joined #haiku[11:12:09] *** greenshift has quit IRC[11:12:46] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[11:18:50] *** triplez has quit IRC[11:19:12] *** wildur has joined #haiku[11:22:26] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[11:26:03] *** Blub\0 has quit IRC[11:26:55] *** greenshift_ has quit IRC[11:29:05] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[11:29:47] *** joeyadams has joined #haiku[11:33:18] *** H_MrSun has joined #haiku[11:41:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_screen[11:42:09] *** triplez has joined #haiku[11:43:20] <smooki> what netbook would be running haiku well please ?[11:46:07] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[11:46:16] *** Blub\0 has joined #haiku[11:48:59] *** Malmis has quit IRC[11:53:38] *** Malmis has joined #haiku[11:57:00] *** margiolas has joined #haiku[12:03:07] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[12:04:07] <CIA-50> stippi * r35820 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Fixed debug build.[12:11:02] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[12:19:18] *** jan__64 has joined #haiku[12:20:58] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[12:22:13] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35821 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/vm/vm.cpp: Let the compiler decide whether to inline or not.[12:28:06] *** PathagenX has quit IRC[12:37:19] <H_MrSun> ough, almost one file squashed, only 367 header files left after that ;P[12:38:04] <largo> :o[12:38:51] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[12:39:17] <H_MrSun> hopefully they will not leave such a freakin mess as this one did as its a tree of inheritance[12:39:34] <H_MrSun> BMallocIO -> BPositionIO -> BDataIO[12:39:37] <H_MrSun> ok 3 classes :P[12:39:45] <H_MrSun> but still had to figure it out ;P[12:40:09] <H_MrSun> and its hard to wrap my head around the back and forth thinking :)[12:41:36] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[12:41:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[12:41:57] <H_MrSun> i wonder what the license of "FindD.cmake" is ...[12:41:58] <H_MrSun> sigh[12:42:37] <H_MrSun> looks like Boost[12:46:28] <H_MrSun> hmm, when licenses and stuff, do i have to commit a copy of the license with the project for the file? :)[12:49:25] * largo unfortunately really can't comment on any of that stuff. :/[12:50:21] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[12:53:28] *** BGA has joined #haiku[12:53:28] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o BGA[12:55:34] <H_MrSun> yeey, now first stuff of hdb is also commited to the repository! =)[12:58:41] *** sprma has joined #haiku[13:04:12] *** sprma has quit IRC[13:16:54] *** petterhj has quit IRC[13:21:47] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[13:23:41] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[13:33:04] *** smooki has quit IRC[13:38:27] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[13:39:29] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[13:43:07] *** McBersaas has joined #haiku[13:43:09] <CIA-50> stippi * r35822 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/ (6 files in 2 dirs):[13:43:09] <CIA-50> Tried to fix all issues with running a DEBUG build of app_server.[13:43:09] <CIA-50> * CopyRegion should not need the HWInterface to be exclusive locked.[13:43:09] <CIA-50> * BitmapDrawingInterface does not need to be locked at all, since[13:43:09] <CIA-50> it doesn't use a shared HWInterface instance.[13:43:10] <CIA-50> * Window and Desktop should lock the HWInterface appropriately[13:43:11] <CIA-50> before invoking CopyRegion() on the DrawingEngine.[13:46:45] <largo> is there an easy way to setup a shared folder from Haiku in virtualbox? (between Haiku/vbox and the host OS... so I can copy files back and forth easily)[13:46:47] * largo googles...[13:48:06] <OmniMancer1> you need certain vbox related drivers that are probably not written yet[13:50:45] <largo> gotcha.[13:50:51] <largo> I'll go the FTP server route I guess.[13:51:04] <largo> I crashed deskbar and I'm going to try to repeat the crash.[13:51:12] <largo> if I can repeat it, I'll file an appropriate bug report. :)[13:51:59] *** ecin has joined #haiku[13:52:59] *** noldsel has joined #haiku[13:54:19] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35823 /haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/platform/bios_ia32/debug.cpp:[13:54:19] <CIA-50> Postpone clearing the debug syslog buffer signature to the time when going[13:54:19] <CIA-50> to start the kernel with the option disabled.[13:54:54] <Auronandace> that would make a good gsoc project, make guest additions drivers work with haiku[13:55:28] <Auronandace> i suppose they wouldn't do that until a stable haiku release?[13:56:42] <OmniMancer1> they have work done on drivers for haiku for vbox guest stuff[13:56:56] <OmniMancer1> just not sure what the state of doneness is[13:58:34] <Auronandace> neat[13:59:00] <Auronandace> at least haiku has been tested by the virtualbox makers[13:59:09] *** joeyadams has quit IRC[13:59:19] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[14:00:01] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[14:00:05] <OmniMancer1> at least it has been tested by everyone :P[14:00:28] <Auronandace> i was looking at their wiki[14:00:35] <OmniMancer1> I need sleep[14:00:38] <Auronandace> guest os support[14:00:43] <OmniMancer1> see you in the morning time[14:00:45] <largo> http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Guest_OSes[14:00:54] <largo> Auronandace: that?[14:00:59] <Auronandace> yup[14:01:02] <largo> odd, I was literally looking at it as you were talking about it. :P[14:01:45] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[14:02:11] <Auronandace> as a side note, i'm using webpositive to view the site[14:02:19] <Auronandace> r307[14:02:28] <Auronandace> it's really good[14:03:27] <Auronandace> all i really need in it is a bookmarks toolbar[14:06:50] * martinhpedersen is away (Disconnected from bouncer...)[14:07:48] <Auronandace> and a homepage button[14:15:57] <martinhpedersen> Saw someone msg'ed me, but did'nt see who...[14:16:48] <largo> wasn't me. :o[14:17:03] <martinhpedersen> hehe;p[14:17:29] <largo> I'm trying to recreate a crash.. and not having luck. :([14:18:14] <martinhpedersen> Sucks;/[14:18:22] * martinhpedersen is idle: Real life;)[14:20:16] *** hm_b has joined #haiku[14:21:46] <largo> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/4127[14:22:00] <largo> I was noticing this same thing and mucking about with it when I segfaulted Deskbar.[14:22:12] <largo> I'm wondering if I should add to the same ticket? :F[14:22:21] <largo> I don't know enough to know if they're related...[14:37:33] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[14:41:43] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[14:48:46] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[14:52:14] *** ecin has quit IRC[14:53:22] *** bradsco has joined #haiku[15:03:16] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[15:03:41] *** McBersaas has quit IRC[15:08:51] *** stargater has joined #haiku[15:08:52] <stargater> hi[15:09:33] <Auronandace> hi[15:12:17] *** Geoz has joined #haiku[15:25:05] *** helf has quit IRC[15:32:22] *** Ola has joined #haiku[15:32:51] *** Ola is now known as Guest61616[15:33:37] *** Guest61616 is now known as OlaHughson[15:41:05] *** helf has joined #haiku[15:41:28] *** Animal-X has joined #haiku[15:47:58] <H_MrSun> has the gnash port changed any yet? :)[15:48:02] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[15:48:39] <Disreali_away> mpmf[15:49:05] *** Disreali_away is now known as Disreali[15:49:32] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[15:49:36] *** ecin has joined #haiku[15:50:16] *** helf has quit IRC[15:53:15] *** helf has joined #haiku[15:56:09] <H_MrSun> something has bugged out ... cant click the icons on the desktop :)[15:57:57] <H_MrSun> have to click 3 times to open a folder on desktop[15:59:27] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[16:05:57] *** stargater has quit IRC[16:06:45] *** talimanB has joined #haiku[16:09:31] *** ecin has quit IRC[16:09:32] *** hm_b has quit IRC[16:10:03] *** ecin has joined #haiku[16:11:17] *** H_MrSun has quit IRC[16:12:37] *** H_MrSun has joined #haiku[16:13:31] * Disreali is now properly caffinated and awake[16:14:12] <largo> I just popped the breaker in my kitchen trying to microwave my ramen... and the landlords aren't home.[16:14:19] <largo> so no power in my kitchen for probably 5 more hours.[16:14:24] * largo is NOT a happy camper.[16:15:37] <helf> :o[16:15:40] <helf> no ramen!![16:19:34] <largo> yeah :'([16:21:07] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[16:29:55] *** talimanB has quit IRC[16:30:06] * Disreali is away: AFK[16:30:18] *** lorglas has quit IRC[16:30:37] *** joeyadams has joined #haiku[16:32:57] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[16:39:16] *** raichoo has left #haiku[16:42:03] *** e-jones has quit IRC[16:46:34] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[16:49:25] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[17:00:19] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[17:04:05] *** wildur has quit IRC[17:07:51] *** wildur has joined #haiku[17:08:14] *** wildur has quit IRC[17:31:02] *** mmlr_e71 has quit IRC[17:33:11] *** martinhpedersen has quit IRC[17:33:40] *** martinhpedersen has joined #haiku[17:43:35] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[17:46:37] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[17:47:13] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku[17:49:36] *** jan__64 has quit IRC[17:51:20] * martinhpedersen is away (Disconnected from bouncer...)[17:52:00] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[17:52:25] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35824 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/boot/addr_range.h: remove_addr_range() is actually called remove_address_range().[17:56:09] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35825 /haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/platform/bios_ia32/mmu.cpp:[17:56:09] <CIA-50> Ignore physical memory ranges that are smaller than 64 KB. Those don't[17:56:09] <CIA-50> contribute significantly to the usable memory, but possibly make the MTRR[17:56:09] <CIA-50> setup impossible. Might improve #5550.[18:04:18] *** tqh has joined #haiku[18:05:35] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[18:06:22] <CIA-50> aldeck * r35826 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/app/Roster.cpp:[18:06:22] <CIA-50> * When launching an app by signature, check against the correct device trash when checking if an executable is in the trash.[18:06:22] <CIA-50> When using find_directory(B_TRASH_DIRECTORY... to check if an entry is in the trash one should always pass the entry's volume otherwise you might be checking in the wrong trash.[18:06:22] <CIA-50> Might happen elsewhere in the tree, will have an opengrok look.[18:14:14] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[18:15:47] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[18:19:53] *** mmadia42 has joined #haiku[18:19:53] *** mmadia has quit IRC[18:21:38] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[18:23:41] *** ecin has quit IRC[18:24:26] *** ecin has joined #haiku[18:28:10] *** The123king has joined #haiku[18:30:26] *** margiolas has quit IRC[18:30:53] *** margiolas has joined #haiku[18:31:56] <CIA-50> mmadia * r35827 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/BitmapDrawingEngine.cpp:[18:31:56] <CIA-50> IsParallelAccessLocked() is defined as a debug-only conditional in the header.[18:31:56] <CIA-50> Fixes the build.[18:33:53] <CIA-50> mmadia * r35828 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/BitmapDrawingEngine.cpp: Two blank lines between functions.[18:34:59] <curlyman> has anyone tried getting libdispatch working on Haiku?[18:55:02] *** margiolas has quit IRC[18:55:30] *** margiolas has joined #haiku[18:56:03] * Disreali is away: food[18:58:45] *** Barrett has quit IRC[19:00:41] <CIA-50> mmadia * r35829 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs):[19:00:41] <CIA-50> * Introduced "MandatoryPackages", which is added to all default images[19:00:41] <CIA-50> * Renamed "BasicCommandLinesTools" to "Sed"[19:00:41] <CIA-50> * Removed isCDPackage's parameter from "Sed"s InstallOptionalHaikuImagePackage[19:00:41] <CIA-50> * Currently, "MandatoryPackages" only dependency is "Sed"[19:00:41] <CIA-50> * Fixes #5560[19:04:01] <CIA-50> mmadia * r35830 /haiku/trunk/ (Jamfile build/jam/HaikuImage): Moves the conditional adding of OpenSSL from HaikuImage to the root Jamfile.[19:04:05] *** |Rdam| has quit IRC[19:05:11] *** wildur has joined #haiku[19:11:55] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[19:14:47] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[19:17:59] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[19:23:50] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[19:24:42] *** kitallis has quit IRC[19:33:48] *** Kroki has joined #haiku[19:34:03] * Disreali is back (gone 00:37:59)[19:36:55] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[19:39:31] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[19:42:37] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[19:42:38] *** ereslibre has quit IRC[19:42:38] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[19:48:19] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[19:48:24] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[19:51:40] *** Fanskapet has quit IRC[19:51:43] *** leszek has joined #haiku[19:52:07] <leszek> hi[19:52:20] <Auronandace> hi[19:52:31] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[19:52:40] *** BeRReGoN has joined #haiku[19:57:06] *** joeyadams has quit IRC[19:57:37] *** NightlyUser has joined #haiku[19:58:27] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[19:59:22] *** Styrbjorn has joined #haiku[20:00:50] <NightlyUser> anyone been using webpositive?[20:01:10] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[20:01:18] <leszek> NightlyUser, I am using it when I am on haiku[20:01:45] <NightlyUser> have you tried r307[20:01:58] <NightlyUser> it's awesome[20:02:04] <The123king> How so?[20:02:23] <leszek> hmm... there is a new version ? xD need to download it[20:02:38] <NightlyUser> i wasn't expecting it to be so stable[20:03:37] <leszek> its stable as webkit is stable I guess. The GUI itself misses still some "major" features. But all in all awesome work[20:03:37] <NightlyUser> it requires a recent nightly cos it needs the new cursors[20:04:02] <leszek> there are new cursors ? the scalable ones ?[20:04:38] <NightlyUser> i know they look more clear[20:05:11] <NightlyUser> would one of the major features be bookmarks?[20:05:59] <leszek> bookmarks, history, password saver, html5 tags (especially video and audio), svg +[20:06:25] <NightlyUser> it doesn't do tooltips yet, does it?[20:06:27] <leszek> and seperate processes for each tab (I don't think it is implemented yet)[20:06:45] <leszek> NightlyUser, don't know[20:07:05] *** VinDuv_ has joined #haiku[20:07:08] <NightlyUser> i like the tooltips from xkcd[20:07:24] <NightlyUser> thats about the only place i need them in[20:10:07] <NightlyUser> i suppose the "go" menu could count as a kind of history[20:10:22] *** ormandj has quit IRC[20:10:33] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[20:11:19] <leszek> NightlyUser, history needs a little bit more ;[20:11:21] <leszek> ;)[20:12:30] <NightlyUser> at the very least, it stores all the sites you've been to[20:13:04] <leszek> also after a restart ?[20:13:15] <NightlyUser> haven't tried that[20:14:31] <NightlyUser> just tried[20:14:38] <NightlyUser> it seems it does[20:14:57] <Skipp_OSX> I know I am going to get flamed for this but I hate the name WebPositive[20:15:20] <Skipp_OSX> Isn't anybody worried about getting sued for trademark violation?[20:15:32] *** luroh has joined #haiku[20:16:12] <drano> Skipp_OSX: it's pretty bad, i think[20:17:30] <NightlyUser> i recon it's a decent name, but then again i have no imagination[20:17:48] <Skipp_OSX> I liked the name Tranquillity[20:17:52] <NightlyUser> if you asked me to name a browser i wouldn't know what to call it[20:18:13] <mmadia42> WebBrowser ;)[20:18:40] <NightlyUser> very generic![20:18:54] *** m0ns00n_ has joined #haiku[20:18:58] <m0ns00n_> :)[20:19:00] <m0ns00n_> evening[20:19:08] <leszek> Web+ is a good name[20:19:12] <Skipp_OSX> but that isn't the point, the point is that WebPositive is too close to NetPositive, so, Haiku could get sued over it by Access[20:19:18] <leszek> Webkit + NetPOSITIVE[20:19:18] <drano> they're not going to get sued[20:19:32] <drano> it's still a crappy name, though[20:19:35] <NightlyUser> tranquility does stay in keeping with the haiku theme, thats a good name[20:19:52] <drano> unimaginative, doesn't establish its own identity (when it's completely new and has no relation to netpositive), etc.[20:19:58] <leszek> Skipp_OSX, I don't think so, access will not sue them, as they don't get any money by this :P[20:20:01] <Skipp_OSX> NightlyUser, thank you, I wish I could take credit for it, but I think Ryan Leavengood thought of that name[20:20:32] <drano> plus, ApplicationNames LikeThis sound ReallyDated[20:20:42] *** margiolas has quit IRC[20:21:12] *** margiolas has joined #haiku[20:23:12] * JonathanThompson dates the applications[20:23:51] <leszek> Skipp_OSX, really ? I thought it was a "community decision"[20:24:30] <m0ns00n_> Skipp_OSX, Are you from the USA?[20:25:13] *** impulse_ has joined #haiku[20:25:13] <H_MrSun> phew, BDataIO.h is DONE![20:25:18] <H_MrSun> both in C and D =)[20:25:49] <DraX> \o/[20:25:51] <JonathanThompson> But where are the implementations in A and B, H_MrSun ???[20:26:16] <H_MrSun> JonathanThompson, HA HA HA .... :P[20:26:18] <DraX> puntastic[20:26:50] <H_MrSun> and looks like i wont have to change BMimeType much to make it functioning, as there are no virtual functions == not supposed to be overloaded =)[20:27:41] <DraX> sort of an interesting question is if in python bindings everything should be overrideable or not[20:28:48] <H_MrSun> if at all =)[20:29:08] *** impy has quit IRC[20:29:18] <DraX> since everything is ``virtual'' in python[20:29:21] <H_MrSun> well if they are not virtual in the Cpp header file, i do not allow overriding in D either, put a final on the class =)[20:30:25] <H_MrSun> i like the final keyword =)[20:30:35] <H_MrSun> "HELL NO YOU WONT OVERRIDE THIS CLASS!"[20:30:35] <H_MrSun> :09[20:30:37] <H_MrSun> :)[20:31:10] <H_MrSun> i wanna make a statusbar on the google code project page to keep track on how many % of it im done with :P[20:35:02] <NightlyUser> is anyone using the vision irc client in haiku?[20:35:08] <Skipp_OSX> leszek, it was not so much a community decision as a decision of the developers who took over the project[20:35:18] <Skipp_OSX> m0ns00n: yes I am from the US[20:35:28] <Kokito> NightlyUser, I am in Vision[20:35:37] <JonathanThompson> NightlyUser: if you're using IRC in Haiku, chances are it's Vision.[20:35:44] <NightlyUser> have you checked the about box[20:35:47] <m0ns00n_> Skipp_OSX, That's why I thought u were afraid of being sued :)[20:35:58] <NightlyUser> i thought it was funny[20:36:08] <Skipp_OSX> m0ns00n_: I am pretty sure people not from the US can get sued to![20:36:38] <JonathanThompson> Oh, don't worry: everyone on any continent or landmass can get sued! :p[20:36:46] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[20:36:54] <Skipp_OSX> s/to/too[20:37:05] * JonathanThompson sues kirilla as an object lesson[20:37:19] <H_MrSun> NightlyUser, i am and most are i guess =)[20:37:25] <kirilla> Oh, I object![20:37:36] <JonathanThompson> Objection overruled, kirilla ![20:37:46] <JonathanThompson> And in an OO court, overridden, too![20:38:02] <kirilla> I take exception to that :)[20:38:18] <JonathanThompson> Are you telling me you're beyond the point of no return value, kirilla ? :P[20:38:24] <kirilla> heh[20:38:37] <kirilla> longjmp into deadbeef[20:38:55] <JonathanThompson> The bus has gone to the wrong address :p[20:41:33] * kirilla quad-pumps the bus and gets back to JonathanThompson's EOF[20:42:09] <kirilla> and appends a null pointer[20:42:18] <kirilla> heh[20:42:29] * JonathanThompson has been null-terminated[20:42:36] <kirilla> :D[20:42:53] <kirilla> spawn a thread?[20:43:09] <JonathanThompson> At least share an area :)[20:43:12] <kirilla> haha[20:43:20] <NightlyUser> just imagine if software required a stunt coordinator[20:43:35] <JonathanThompson> Right: one that prevented unplanned crashes :p[20:43:41] <kirilla> John Foo[20:44:20] <kirilla> "we need const, lots of const"[20:44:24] <JonathanThompson> John Foo, Ann Foo, have a kid named Kung Foo![20:44:31] <m0ns00n_> Skipp_OSX, well, but we're not that used to it =)[20:44:56] *** Kokito_baxter has joined #haiku[20:45:38] <NightlyUser> is it just me, or is there a bug with mediaplayer?[20:45:53] <kirilla> witch![20:45:59] <kirilla> ;)[20:46:08] <curlyman> NightlyUser: If you can't describe it, it's not a bug. I used to tell my boss that. :)[20:46:29] *** Kokito_baxter has joined #haiku[20:46:35] <NightlyUser> try playing a music file through once in mediaplayer..[20:46:41] <NightlyUser> keep it open[20:46:47] <Kokito_baxter> hello from another native IRC client :)[20:46:55] <NightlyUser> then press play[20:46:57] <kirilla> hi kokito[20:47:05] <NightlyUser> it'll then play twice[20:47:06] <The123king> :o[20:47:08] <Kokito_baxter> hi kirilla[20:47:19] <Kokito_baxter> greetings from Baxter :)[20:47:30] <kirilla> heh :) is it nice?[20:47:45] <JonathanThompson> It's a baxter of an IRC client :p[20:47:51] *** VinDuv_ has quit IRC[20:48:03] <Kokito_baxter> it's OK, but I prefer Vision[20:48:14] <kirilla> I don't recall how well it works[20:48:42] <The123king> I need Haiku to work better with my nVidia 9600GT :/[20:48:48] * JonathanThompson recalls there's a darn good reason he went to using Vision in BeOS[20:48:49] *** margiolas has quit IRC[20:49:40] <Kokito_baxter> kirilla, considering that it is an "ancient" app, it works pretty well[20:49:46] <Ingenu> vision works better[20:49:55] <Ingenu> that's the reason[20:50:01] <Ingenu> the other will disco[20:50:10] <Ingenu> AFAIR[20:50:26] <JonathanThompson> disco?[20:50:43] * JonathanThompson hadn't heard that word used in.... whatever meaning Ingenu is using it in....[20:50:48] <Ingenu> disconnect[20:50:53] <kirilla> my 8800GT works very well in Haiku, with full HD resolution in vesa![20:50:59] <JonathanThompson> Ah, I was thinking of dancing :p[20:51:11] <Ingenu> I got that ^^[20:51:33] * JonathanThompson hopes Ingenu is Stayin' Alive[20:51:44] <Ingenu> I moved to Vision near "the end"[20:51:50] * JonathanThompson sings, "Ah, Ah, Ah, Ah!"[20:51:54] <Ingenu> I'm planning to[20:51:56] <The123king> i'm listening to Staying Alive[20:51:58] <The123king> :/[20:52:06] <kirilla> disco >> go funky >> spiral out of view[20:52:24] <kirilla> horrible[20:52:32] <JonathanThompson> Don't forget the styles of the clothing of the time, kirilla :p[20:52:47] <Skipp_OSX> or better yet, do forget[20:52:51] * JonathanThompson wonders if kirilla is old enough to remember them...[20:52:56] <Ingenu> I think the 80s were the worst[20:52:56] <kirilla> "thank god for emo"[20:53:07] <Ingenu> hair style & cloths[20:53:08] <Ingenu> ouch[20:53:43] <kirilla> JonathanThompson: born in the midseventies, so no quite old enough to see them with my own eyes[20:53:56] <JonathanThompson> I was born in 71, so I CAN remember them.[20:54:17] <kirilla> and you recovered lately? ;)[20:54:27] <The123king> 70's had the worst clothes[20:54:31] <JonathanThompson> Who said I ever recovered???[20:54:36] <kirilla> haha[20:54:54] <JonathanThompson> I still remember the plaid Toughskins I wore as a kid.[20:55:01] <The123king> mind you, i was born 1991 so all i have had to deal with is the Spice Girls and Aqua[20:55:16] <The123king> fun[20:55:21] <drano> it's so weird to think about that[20:55:23] <JonathanThompson> They were so tough, when you fell, the pants remained whole, but your skin underneath was STILL ripped up...[20:55:24] <Skipp_OSX> JonathanThompson, I didn't know that you were almost a quadragenarian[20:55:27] <drano> i think of myself as pretty young i guess[20:55:36] <kirilla> smurf hits[20:55:47] <drano> but people being born in 1991 and being on irc just seems bizarre to me[20:55:51] <The123king> bob the builder[20:55:58] * JonathanThompson feels ancient in the realm of computer hardware/software...[20:56:01] *** raichoo has left #haiku[20:56:10] <The123king> ...? I'm 18[20:56:35] <NightlyUser> 22 here[20:56:44] <JonathanThompson> Interesting conversation I had earlier this week with a freshmeat tech recruiter.....[20:57:18] <JonathanThompson> He made some rather interesting comments about the breadth of my experience exceeding his, as he recently changed careers from developing software to recruiting for it.[20:57:38] <JonathanThompson> Now, if he can get me gainful employment, I'll feel much better about the whole thing![20:58:27] <drano> i hate recruiters[20:58:33] <drano> nothing ever works out[20:58:49] <JonathanThompson> That's not been my experience all the time.[20:58:50] <Ingenu> :)[20:59:10] *** Kokito_baxter has quit IRC[20:59:21] <JonathanThompson> Too long in this hunt, unfortunately.[20:59:26] <NightlyUser> has anyone reproduced the mediaplayer bug i've been experiencing?[20:59:59] <kirilla> sorry NightlyUser, not currently in Haiku[21:00:04] <Ingenu> I don't reproduce bugs[21:00:08] <kirilla> haha[21:00:15] <Ingenu> no QA ! :P[21:00:18] <kirilla> we make'um![21:00:32] <Ingenu> I have the "works on my machine" label[21:00:40] <Ingenu> like all good programmers[21:00:40] *** koki_bowser has joined #haiku[21:00:52] <Ingenu> ^^[21:01:02] <koki_bowser> greetings, from yet another native IRC client: Bowser[21:01:24] <Ingenu> oh Bowser[21:01:24] <kirilla> what next! :P[21:01:32] <Ingenu> that sure bring back memories[21:01:46] <Ingenu> I was 20 last time I tried that[21:01:46] <kirilla> hello from the BeOS HotLine client?[21:02:05] *** koki_bowser has quit IRC[21:02:05] <Ingenu> BeShare ;p[21:02:30] <Ingenu> we shoukd really make that oart of the OS[21:02:41] <kirilla> yeah, BeShare was nicer, but there was a lot of music on Hotline servers[21:02:43] <Ingenu> BeOS was great because of it[21:02:56] <Ingenu> (ok pushing it a bit ;))[21:03:16] <H_MrSun> yeah, was BeShare that did whole of beos[21:03:16] <H_MrSun> :P[21:03:20] <Kokito> kirilla, I tried XChat for BeOS, but it did not work :)[21:03:21] <H_MrSun> nothing else ;)[21:03:54] <Ingenu> the place to ask for help and get/share files[21:04:15] <kirilla> I think the Muscle API on which BeShare is built is horribly oversized for the purposes of a chat/filesharing app[21:04:27] <kirilla> but I never really groked it[21:05:08] <kirilla> Kokito: XChat has a BeOS port?[21:05:13] <Ingenu> BeShare was the direct link to the community[21:05:26] <Ingenu> the place to meet people, chat, get help[21:05:27] <Ingenu> ...[21:05:58] <Ingenu> I think I saw XChat on BeOS[21:06:09] <kirilla> I've got a trac ticket about reviving BeShare as a support tool[21:06:10] <Kokito> kirilla, apparently so; it's on bebits[21:06:51] <Ingenu> I think BeShare would help[21:07:03] <Ingenu> if people in here moved to it that is ^^[21:07:06] <kirilla> which would not be the full BeShare, granted, but a useful no-nonsense connect and get help/directions[21:07:52] <kirilla> wonder if Haiku-ports have looked into it[21:08:21] <kirilla> they're the experts on how to get things to build[21:08:28] <JonathanThompson> A BeShareLite?[21:08:35] <kirilla> JonathanThompson: yes, sort of[21:08:36] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[21:08:40] <Kokito> kirilla, to be honest, I could not care less for chat on Haiku :)[21:09:08] *** Colin_Finck has joined #haiku[21:09:15] <Ingenu> it's for the community feel[21:09:25] <Kokito> I mean, xchat :)[21:09:40] <JonathanThompson> A recruiting firm I have been looking at their job site clearly has people who don't know jack about testing a system and creating working queries...[21:09:51] <JonathanThompson> Or designing a system.[21:09:57] *** ereslibre has quit IRC[21:10:20] <Kokito> if the Haiku package manager uses attributes, perhaps BeShare could be re-purposed for the distribution of applications[21:10:59] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[21:11:00] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[21:11:11] <NightlyUser> i'd love a haiku package manager[21:11:16] <kirilla> Kokito: nothing wrong in porting good, solid apps even if they're from Linux ;)[21:11:29] * JonathanThompson gasps[21:12:03] <Kokito> sure kirilla, but I would rather see native apps[21:12:07] <curlyman> NightlyUser: I'd love all apps to contain all their dependencies so that a package manager isn't needed.[21:13:15] <NightlyUser> curlyman: i'd rather have it in a repo so you download what you need, not like software on windows[21:13:34] <Ingenu> not me[21:13:54] <The123king> Anyone ever tried compiling Finch on Haiku?[21:13:58] <kirilla> Kokito: native, yes, but it's not a clear-cut thing what is native. One might base a client on a great library and it would be considered native even if the library is 10x the size of the native code parts.[21:13:59] <Ingenu> packaged app[21:14:09] <NightlyUser> that way you can trust the source of the software and you can mirror the repos[21:14:19] <Ingenu> 1 app = 1 package[21:15:06] <kirilla> not everything is an app[21:15:20] <JonathanThompson> And not every app is a package![21:15:22] <Kokito> wise words :)[21:15:35] <Ingenu> nonono[21:16:01] <Skipp_OSX> well, that is not exactly how package managment is proposed to work on Haiku[21:16:06] * JonathanThompson packages Ingenu app-ropriately[21:16:28] <NightlyUser> unfortunately dependancies are practically inevitable, i prefer the emphasis on having a central repository[21:17:17] *** ereslibre_laptop has joined #haiku[21:17:18] <Ingenu> autonomous apps[21:17:26] *** ereslibre has quit IRC[21:17:26] <Ingenu> HDD space is cheap[21:17:46] <kirilla> I don't think there's been anything decided on (guidelines for) package creation.. e.g. how to include dependenices and/or reference dependencies[21:18:44] <kirilla> but yes, I think the core devs see deps as inevitable, even though we aspire to have native apps be mostly self-contained[21:19:01] *** jan__64 has joined #haiku[21:19:08] <Skipp_OSX> Ingenu, hard drive space may be cheap but network bandwidth is not[21:19:26] <Ingenu> we download games[21:19:30] <drano> dependencies should probably be be integrated into the application's bundle or whatever[21:19:34] <NightlyUser> to me, the most important thing is having it all from one trustworthy source[21:19:37] <Ingenu> and HD movies[21:19:52] <drano> NightlyUser: that's not going to happen, because some stuff doesn't fit into that mold[21:20:09] <JonathanThompson> User's time and sanity aren't cheap.[21:20:11] <Ingenu> yep ship with what you need[21:20:18] <NightlyUser> having an official repo with a package manager to manage dependancies seems the most viable option[21:20:54] <JonathanThompson> I've done the package chase for setting up a development system using Linux for some out of date system configuration, and it was an absolute nightmare and then some.[21:21:03] <NightlyUser> you could also have a legacy apps repo for all the beos era apps[21:21:32] <Ingenu> I'd rather have bebits[21:21:34] <drano> why does it have to be a centralized repository? things for native apps work perfectly on mac os x[21:21:45] <drano> and there's no such thing as a package manager for end-user crap[21:21:48] <drano> there doesn't need to be[21:21:49] <Ingenu> and whatever installer BeOS had[21:21:59] <JonathanThompson> In such cases, distributed!=reliability as people choose what to host or not based on subjective desires.[21:22:10] <Ingenu> (improved as necessary, but dead simple, one click)[21:22:39] <JonathanThompson> And when one thing depends on another's library, and that library depends on other libraries, it all gets tangled rather quickly, even when there aren't cyclic dependencies (which are more common than desired).[21:22:51] *** ereslibre_laptop has quit IRC[21:23:04] <curlyman> I just downloaded Beam on Bebits and it requires liblayout, which I don't have. How hard would it be to just include all dependencies?[21:23:26] <DraX> what happens when there is a bug in a dependency that everything uses?[21:23:35] <DraX> like zlib[21:24:10] <drano> it's better to go the self-contained route than trying to create a package management dependency resolution monster clusterfuck[21:24:13] <JonathanThompson> Here's the problem: if you go and update a lib that everything uses to fix one bug, there's a chance you'll just introduce other bugs in the process: there's no simple correct single answer.[21:24:35] <curlyman> DraX: you accidentally remove it or the upgrade fails and your system is boned.[21:24:37] <drano> for about a million different reasons, some of which JonathanThompson has said[21:24:42] <JonathanThompson> At least, when it comes to having external libs used by multiple apps.[21:25:10] <kirilla> I'm kind of into the idea of having an package factory (e.g. HaikuPorts) making e.g. a quarterly release, and have the packagefs get a full new release (collection of packages) to download lazily, and mostly have a important security patches in between[21:25:58] <DraX> that's how pkgsrc sort of works[21:26:05] <Kokito> curlyman, if I am not mistaken, there is a Haiku-specific Beam optional package[21:26:09] <DraX> there are quarterly releases that are considered mostly stable[21:26:10] <kirilla> each such release (package collection) would be a QA:d[21:26:16] * JonathanThompson hates to think how much money his requirements of collecting various libs to setup a standard build system cost Yahoo...[21:26:22] <kirilla> DraX: I know :)[21:26:42] <DraX> kirilla: and i mostly agree with you on that[21:26:55] <DraX> because it also means that smooth upgrades can be thought about[21:26:59] <DraX> between quarterlies[21:27:04] <JonathanThompson> Felt like I was dealing with a plate of spaghetti strewn throughout the net and time.[21:27:07] <DraX> instead of the mess of out-of-bands upgrades[21:27:22] <Ingenu> hehe[21:27:24] <DraX> s/bands/band/[21:27:37] <kirilla> out-of-spaghetti?[21:27:52] <DraX> that too :)[21:27:57] <JonathanThompson> plate of spaghetti: read! :P[21:28:01] <DraX> clear upgrade-pathes is a huge issue[21:28:10] <kirilla> hehe.. just kidding JonathanThompson :)[21:28:32] <JonathanThompson> I'd find some set of libs for something, then find I couldn't use those with other things that also were what was available, therefore needing yet another version of libs from a different time.[21:28:33] <Ingenu> just ate spaghetti alla carbonara[21:28:37] <JonathanThompson> And on it went.[21:28:48] *** peerkoel has quit IRC[21:29:03] <Ingenu> magic[21:29:22] <JonathanThompson> Just when you think you're about done collating the entire system you need to work with, they change the goal on you,and you have to mostly restart all over again.[21:29:24] <Ingenu> I use as little libs as possible[21:29:27] <Ingenu> at home[21:29:32] <Ingenu> at work...[21:29:47] * largo is nibbling on the leftover broken chip pieces in the bottom of a bag of generic tortilla chips... ;_;[21:30:05] * JonathanThompson suspects perhaps largo is eating microchips[21:30:08] <kirilla> I wonder if there could be a testing package to accompany a package, to see if it works, which could be used by the package manger itself to self-QA, post-installation/removal of a package[21:30:14] <largo> *rimshot*[21:30:24] <JonathanThompson> What is yours, a Dorito???[21:30:27] *** _maniac_ has quit IRC[21:30:32] <JonathanThompson> (It's all about the Pentiums, Baby!)[21:30:39] <kirilla> for each package a testing package[21:30:44] <DraX> kirilla: that could be interesting, but it seems like you'd be writing your own testing packages a lot :)[21:30:55] <Ingenu> unit testing applies to package ?[21:31:03] <kirilla> somebody else will be forced to do it :)[21:31:08] <kirilla> "or else"[21:31:09] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/haiku/haiku-20100312.png <-- I redid the haiku logo for fun (bottom right)[21:31:16] <JonathanThompson> Only if you have small packages, Ingenu :p[21:31:18] <largo> I wanted real leaves... instead of the fleavers. :P[21:31:25] <kirilla> Ingenu: exactly :)[21:31:52] <Ingenu> largo: Core i7 3.14GHz...[21:31:56] <Ingenu> :p[21:32:21] <JonathanThompson> I take it you're running that under a VM, largo ?[21:32:24] <Ingenu> I'll go i7 860[21:32:46] <Ingenu> will that run Haiku live ?[21:32:54] <largo> JonathanThompson: yeah.[21:33:06] <Ingenu> my C2DE6600 never did[21:33:10] <Ingenu> bah[21:33:14] <largo> Ingenu: will what run it live?[21:33:20] <JonathanThompson> I thought so: I didn't think you could HAVE that low of a memory configuration with that sort of RAM and system :p[21:33:21] <largo> I have an actual install on this machine too.[21:33:27] * kirilla disassembles largo's tortilla starch[21:33:37] <largo> but there are serious problems with the atheroswifi drivers still, so I'm just using it in virtualbox for now.[21:33:52] <JonathanThompson> KIRILLA! NO disassemble! Wife is NOT a malfunction![21:33:57] <Ingenu> largo: Haiku on your PC[21:34:07] * JonathanThompson marries largo to his chips[21:34:08] <largo> Ingenu: ah, yeah. 8 cores.[21:34:18] <largo> Ingenu: it runs nicely.... aside from the wifi driver issue.[21:34:40] <JonathanThompson> largo: you're eating your wife![21:34:42] <largo> which constantly disconnects if I have SMP disabled, and if I don't have SMP disabled it will shortly hard lock the entire system. :P[21:34:45] <Ingenu> 4 :p[21:34:52] <largo> JonathanThompson: I'm not married (yet). :)[21:35:03] <JonathanThompson> That's why I married you to your chips :P[21:35:20] <Ingenu> hypertheading doesn't count as 'cores'[21:35:30] * JonathanThompson notes largo is all that AND a bag of chips[21:35:40] <largo> Ingenu: 4 what?[21:35:49] <kirilla> JonathanThompson: there's a cute old movie about a robot, called "No 5 is Alive" where he figures out mortality by disassembling (something) and trying to reassemble[21:35:52] <largo> ah.[21:35:53] <Ingenu> cores[21:36:03] <largo> 4 hyperthreaded cores. shows up as 8 cores in Pulse etc. :)[21:36:13] <largo> quad core, hyperthreaded is a lot to type. ;)[21:36:21] * JonathanThompson thinks perhaps kirilla has had a fault on his bus again going to the wrong address...[21:36:51] * kirilla shorts JonathanThompson's open transport[21:36:53] <largo> nice :D[21:37:18] <Ingenu> yeah[21:37:26] <Ingenu> we can test scalability[21:37:31] * JonathanThompson notes the shot goes right through without causing damage: it is, after all, an OPEN transport![21:37:34] <Ingenu> or rarher lack of[21:37:38] <Ingenu> ^^;[21:37:45] <Ingenu> rather*[21:37:53] <largo> hehe[21:38:04] <kirilla> scabalility[21:38:10] * JonathanThompson curses Colloquy[21:38:34] <Ingenu> I haz mobile Colloquy[21:38:43] <Ingenu> it's good[21:38:52] <drano> why does anyone use colloquy for the iphone when flowchat exists? very strange to me[21:39:07] <Ingenu> flowwhat ?[21:39:10] <JonathanThompson> Mac Colloquy slows me down horribly, but it seems to be the least buggy featureful Mac IRC client.[21:39:18] *** BGA has quit IRC[21:39:19] <Ingenu> (ignorance us bliss :p)[21:39:28] <kirilla> heh[21:39:41] <Ingenu> I'd need to check flowchat[21:41:09] *** leszek has quit IRC[21:43:10] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[21:44:30] *** peerkoel has joined #haiku[21:45:15] *** wildur has quit IRC[21:45:24] <Ingenu> I find this multiprocessing limitations on the iPhone disturbing[21:45:58] <drano> use backgrounder/proswitcher[21:46:06] <JonathanThompson> Elaborate, Ingenu .[21:46:11] *** cryptic has joined #haiku[21:46:15] <AlienSoldier> why, you don't like a portable C64 ?:P[21:46:32] * JonathanThompson slaps AlienSoldier sillier than normal :p[21:46:43] <Ingenu> can't run appstore & colloquy[21:46:49] <drano> use backgrounder/proswitcher[21:46:52] <Ingenu> or two user apps at once[21:47:08] <Ingenu> drano: I won't jailbreak[21:47:13] <AlienSoldier> JonathanThompson i watched a show about a company doing miniature tank the other day, guess how they call it... the badger :)[21:47:23] <drano> why?[21:47:33] <JonathanThompson> Badgers? We don't need no stinkin' badgers! :P[21:47:35] <Ingenu> I'm under guarantee ?[21:47:52] <drano> so what? in the real world it doesn't affect that shit[21:47:59] <drano> you can always restore it anyway[21:48:30] <drano> that's like not downloading an mp3 because you're afraid the RIAA might sue you[21:48:30] <curlyman> You're gonna give your iphone the SuperAIDS[21:48:39] <Ingenu> why can't Apple do it properly ?[21:48:47] <drano> it doesn't matter - they didn't[21:48:56] <kirilla> I'm with you, Ingenu[21:48:57] <curlyman> Ingenu: care to give a sane alternative?[21:48:59] <Ingenu> I don't download MP3 :p[21:49:05] <drano> but there's a solution you can use that fixes your problem right now[21:49:08] <Ingenu> I rip my CD myself[21:49:43] <Ingenu> curlyman: sane alt to what ?[21:50:08] <drano> nobody really needs "multitasking" on the iphone. what they actually want is the ability to run very very specific things in the background[21:50:13] <drano> chat clients and music players[21:50:17] <Ingenu> the iPad might help abiut that[21:50:19] <drano> that's all anyone ever wants to run in the background[21:50:23] <curlyman> Ingenu: the current system that the iPhone uses[21:50:25] *** Animal-X_ has joined #haiku[21:50:31] <Ingenu> it's a micro computer[21:50:56] <drano> i think they could solve that pretty quickly by just having a menu where you can allow 1 or 2 custom apps to stay resident[21:51:07] <NightlyUser> it's more of a micro appliance than a computer[21:51:07] <Ingenu> and multipeocessing is already supported[21:51:16] <Ingenu> just not for all apps[21:51:35] <Ingenu> I' listening to music & on colloquy right now...[21:51:42] <curlyman> drano: Maybe allowing an app to background one thread that only wakes up like once every 15 seconds?[21:51:51] <drano> no[21:52:18] <drano> just giving the user a pref pane that they can use to allow pandora or colloquy or aim or whatever people want[21:52:19] <Ingenu> yep running chat clients in the bckgrd would be enough[21:52:22] <drano> to act like the apple stuff[21:52:40] <Skipp_OSX> yes, it is annoying that background apps aren't allowed[21:52:57] <drano> you should just jailbreak and use proswitcher Ingenu[21:53:18] <drano> there's no point in being an idealist about it after you already have the phone[21:53:22] <Ingenu> thank you for the advice but I'll pass for now[21:53:25] *** leszek has joined #haiku[21:53:46] <Ingenu> I might change my mind later[21:53:47] <curlyman> My question is: How would Apple keep the battery life up if every app is allowed to pound away at the CPU all day long?[21:53:59] <drano> you didn't read my suggestion[21:54:09] <drano> not every app should be allowed[21:54:13] <drano> the user should just say what can[21:54:17] *** Animal-X has quit IRC[21:54:34] <curlyman> drano: so it would be an opt-in?[21:54:50] *** Animal-X_ has quit IRC[21:55:02] <Skipp_OSX> another thing that is annoying is that non-Apple apps can't run while asleep[21:55:04] *** oco has joined #haiku[21:55:05] *** Animal-X has joined #haiku[21:55:11] <NightlyUser> so conserving the battery gives apple the right to limit the iphone?[21:55:25] <drano> it doesn't LIMIT THE PHONE[21:55:28] <drano> they have the right[21:55:30] <drano> it's their product[21:55:47] <drano> it would only be "limiting" it if apps could do it before, but they were stopped later on[21:55:51] <drano> but they never could[21:55:54] <drano> so it's not "limiting" anything[21:56:02] <drano> it works as intended[21:56:14] <NightlyUser> he wants to run two apps, its physically possible, apple doesn't let him, i call that limiting[21:56:28] * Ingenu agreed[21:56:49] <drano> it is technically a limitation, but they have the "right" to do whatever they want[21:57:05] <NightlyUser> apple intends it to be an appliance[21:57:10] <drano> so?[21:57:13] <NightlyUser> thats why they limit it[21:57:32] <Ingenu> the iPad might help there[21:57:41] *** The123king has left #haiku[21:57:56] <Ingenu> I suppose it will have user multi processing[21:58:12] <NightlyUser> exactly my point! they want you to buy an ipad BECAUSE they limit their other product[21:58:30] <drano> no[21:58:40] <drano> it probably WON'T support multitasking any more than the iphone does[21:58:50] *** leszek has quit IRC[21:58:51] <drano> and even if they did[21:58:54] <curlyman> The IQ of this conversation is dropping[21:58:55] <drano> you don't have to buy their products[21:59:03] <JonathanThompson> An iPad isn't marketed as being a communications device where communications via real-time limitations on a network is the main thing: as a phone, which has the overriding need to be available and not dead.[21:59:19] <JonathanThompson> Like it or not, that's their engineering decision for the resources the iPhone comes with.[21:59:36] <drano> if you don't agree with what they do, don't use their stuff. it doesn't make sense to complain about it[22:00:18] * JonathanThompson wonders if Apple will include user apps multitasking in iPhone OS 4.0 and then what people will grump about :p[22:00:35] <Ingenu> ;)[22:00:40] <Ingenu> would be nice[22:00:40] <drano> all kinds of stuff, probably[22:00:52] <JonathanThompson> Logically, I'd suspect that 4.0 if it includes that, won't be available for before the iPhone 3GS due to memory limitations.[22:00:56] *** leszek has joined #haiku[22:01:15] <JonathanThompson> The original iPhone has only 128 MB RAM which is largely used up by the OS and Apple's background apps.[22:01:18] <Ingenu> possible[22:01:31] <Ingenu> so when can I run Haiku on my iPhone guys ?[22:01:39] <Ingenu> ;p[22:01:39] <JonathanThompson> And that compositing GUI is horribly memory-hungry.[22:01:43] <Ingenu> obvious solution[22:01:51] <curlyman> Ingenu: vnc[22:02:11] <JonathanThompson> I've seen a rather simplistic iPhone app that showed low memory warnings for whatever reason....[22:02:12] <Ingenu> your spoiling my fun ![22:02:14] <Ingenu> ;)[22:02:22] <Ingenu> you're*[22:02:33] <Ingenu> I think it shows that I'm tired[22:02:45] <JonathanThompson> Somehow, I don't think the old iPhones have enough resources to make multiple apps running very viable in a practical form.[22:02:57] <drano> they don't[22:03:09] <drano> the 3g was horrible if you tried to run more than one app[22:03:22] <Ingenu> are apps that resource hungry ?[22:03:36] <JonathanThompson> I've heard reports of perhaps 41 MB available to user apps.[22:03:43] <Ingenu> I remember my 128Ko computer[22:03:44] <drano> the ones that you care about running are[22:03:47] <Ingenu> it did stuff[22:03:50] <kirilla> doesn't mmu_screen have an openmoko?[22:04:04] <JonathanThompson> Ingenu: consider all the compositing and buffers needed for that, and how dynamic they are.[22:04:29] <Ingenu> one screen/app[22:04:38] <Ingenu> should be enough[22:04:44] <JonathanThompson> That's what you SEE....[22:04:58] <JonathanThompson> But how much is used to do all the layering?[22:05:08] <Ingenu> you know I'm a graphics programmer right ?[22:05:13] <JonathanThompson> Yes :p[22:05:17] <Ingenu> :p[22:05:24] <drano> are you?[22:05:29] <Ingenu> yes[22:05:42] <Ingenu> I'm making games[22:05:46] <JonathanThompson> He programs graphics: they're a new type of machine :p[22:05:54] <Ingenu> some of which sold well[22:06:06] <Ingenu> wouldn't be my fault though ;p[22:06:32] <Ingenu> yeah, we got graphics devices from Xerox, it's amazing[22:06:47] <Ingenu> we invented something call graphical user interface[22:06:57] <Ingenu> of course it 's only greyscale[22:07:07] <Ingenu> but think of the future ![22:07:17] <Ingenu> could be 16 COLORS[22:07:21] <Ingenu> ;)[22:07:21] <JonathanThompson> Sooner or later it'll add up to be real graphics :D[22:07:25] <curlyman> I used to work at a game company[22:07:40] *** olivdt_ has joined #haiku[22:07:40] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/haiku/haiku-20100312b.png[22:07:46] <Ingenu> curlyman: ah ? what department ?[22:08:19] *** olivdt_ has quit IRC[22:08:19] *** olivdt_ has joined #haiku[22:08:22] *** olivdt has quit IRC[22:09:37] *** olivdt_ is now known as olivdt[22:09:50] *** kirilla has quit IRC[22:11:10] <curlyman> I worked as one of two programmers for Sector 13 of Reactor Interactive reactorinteractive.net They were recently purchased by the other programmer's company.[22:11:35] *** ecin has quit IRC[22:11:55] *** ecin has joined #haiku[22:11:58] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[22:12:54] <Ingenu> AI, art, 3D, gameplay, physics ?[22:12:58] *** Malmis has quit IRC[22:13:29] <OmniMancer> ??[22:13:36] <curlyman> Ingenu: I wrote a way-cool particle system that used C++ STL. All programming. There were three people in the company. Two programmers and one art guy.[22:13:55] <Ingenu> oh[22:14:01] <Advant> i interview at ubisoft right after school, but I think me modding my xbox to write my own asteroids port brought on some concern :)[22:14:10] <Ingenu> good way to learn tons of stuff[22:14:22] <Ingenu> lol[22:14:49] <Ingenu> got interviewed at UBI too, very long ago[22:14:55] <Advant> my linear algebra was weak and I never did any of the math lifting, just used libraries others had written[22:14:56] <Ingenu> when I wanted to be game designer[22:15:26] <Ingenu> not eveeyone need good maths[22:15:40] <Advant> kind of glad I didn't, I would probably gotten bored with that[22:15:43] <curlyman> Ingenu: UBI Canada?[22:16:07] <Ingenu> nop it was 10 years ago[22:16:19] <Ingenu> at Ubisoft Annecy (France)[22:16:54] <curlyman> I hate the Programming == Maths bullshit. I failed out of Calculus and I got an A in Discrete Mathematics, which I would argue isn't a type of Math.[22:17:17] <Advant> i struggled in discrete, maybe didn't apply myself[22:17:32] <curlyman> Ingenu: Are you doing any iPhone/iPad games? or all bullshit DirectX?[22:17:35] <Ingenu> logic[22:17:47] <Ingenu> D3D[22:18:15] <curlyman> I hated DirectX.[22:18:15] <Ingenu> I'd need some hack to get the iPhone devkit workibg on Windows[22:18:31] * JonathanThompson thinks curlyman has a limited understanding of what math is...[22:18:32] <curlyman> Ingenu: boo[22:18:34] <Ingenu> but I know a couple people at PowerVR:p[22:18:53] <Ingenu> I prefered OpenGL[22:18:58] <Ingenu> until D3D10[22:19:06] <curlyman> Ingenu: I still have the original PowerVR card.[22:19:19] <Ingenu> so do I :)[22:19:27] <Ingenu> and the next[22:19:28] <AlienSoldier> i still have my Dreamcast :P[22:19:34] <Ingenu> and a dreamcast[22:19:38] <Advant> i need to go back and read that docs on how the NES gun worked[22:19:42] <Ingenu> 2 dreams[22:19:53] <Ingenu> and now an iPhone ^^[22:20:09] <Ingenu> Advant: what for ?[22:20:31] <Advant> Ingenu: the fact you could aim and shoo at objects on TV at that time was pretty ingenius[22:20:36] <Advant> shoot[22:21:10] <Ingenu> yeah[22:21:19] <Advant> wouldn't mind play some duck hunt or hogans alley right now[22:21:20] <curlyman> Ingenu: I'm going to start working on an iPad pinball game when I'm done with my current project.[22:21:21] <Advant> playing[22:21:32] <Ingenu> I vaguely remember it had something to do with refresh frequency[22:21:51] <Ingenu> Advant: get a Wii ;)[22:22:08] <Advant> those shooting games dont seem as fun[22:22:21] <Advant> i got a wii back in US, maybe I should bring it and my PS3 back[22:22:41] <Ingenu> curlyman: is your current project for iPhones ?[22:23:02] <curlyman> Ingenu: No, but that's all the guesses you get. :) It's unannounced.[22:23:24] <Ingenu> not bought a new console since I forgot my DS and all its games in a train[22:23:25] <Ingenu> obviously never got it back[22:23:36] <JonathanThompson> So, you've announced you have an unannounced project, so what does that really mean? :D[22:23:40] <Advant> but you made someone very happy[22:24:00] <Ingenu> I can tease too ![22:24:12] * JonathanThompson waits for it[22:24:21] <Ingenu> I know about the title of the next Total War[22:24:27] <Advant> OmniMancer: you still around?[22:24:31] <Ingenu> and another unannounced game ![22:24:33] <Ingenu> :p[22:24:43] *** Colin_Finck is now known as Colin_Finck|afk[22:24:46] <JonathanThompson> I suspect he's become a square, Advant :p[22:25:07] <Advant> jokes :)[22:25:11] <OmniMancer> I am around now[22:25:25] <JonathanThompson> OmniMancer: didn't you hear? It's hip to be square![22:25:48] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[22:25:56] <Advant> OmniMancer: See that NZ govt going to filter all traffic now?[22:26:13] <OmniMancer> not really[22:27:04] <Advant> not sure how fesible that is, maybe ISPs will just got everything[22:27:12] <Advant> s/got/log[22:27:57] <curlyman> Forcing ISPs to log everything is bullshit.[22:28:09] <OmniMancer> I say it will fall over eventually[22:28:43] <Advant> OmniMancer: Already traffic in/out of the country is slow :)[22:29:03] <Advant> I was pulling 1200KBps on a NZ FTP for CentOS distro which was nice[22:30:56] <JonathanThompson> I predict it'll be a very short time before users find something to send/receive pure crap that sets off alarms and fills up logs that causes the ISPs to tell the lawmakers they can go eat it.[22:31:35] <Advant> I couldn't even speculate how much data/sec would be pumping on avg[22:32:04] <JonathanThompson> Sort of like a former coworker of mine that ran a little batch file on booting MS-DOS that created hundreds of thousands of empty files on his system for the NetWare auditing system to catch and report.[22:32:18] <Advant> hehe[22:32:43] <JonathanThompson> Net result: the IT department showed him a HUGE stack of fanfold paper with the tens of thousands of bogus executables it reported, after it ran their printer out of paper one time.[22:33:02] <JonathanThompson> They... weren't pleased :p[22:33:19] *** ereslibre_laptop has joined #haiku[22:33:20] *** ereslibre_laptop has joined #haiku[22:34:10] <Ingenu> hehe[22:35:00] <JonathanThompson> Their scan was incredibly obnoxious.[22:36:02] * JonathanThompson remembers the days when rebooting computers tended to happen every day or close...[22:36:17] <JonathanThompson> I think they also tended to want you to leave computers turned off when you left work, too.[22:36:21] *** tqh has quit IRC[22:36:30] <Kokito> hola ereslibre_laptop[22:37:01] <JonathanThompson> Beyond that, due to what we were doing, we needed to reboot frequently to reconfigure the config.sys for drivers due to the 640K limit issue.[22:37:10] <JonathanThompson> I don't really miss those days ;)[22:39:59] <Ingenu> huh ?[22:40:08] <Ingenu> I still boot daily[22:40:22] <Ingenu> ah that[22:40:23] <Ingenu> yeah[22:40:41] <Ingenu> win32 junk was worst[22:40:53] <Ingenu> every hour or so[22:40:56] <JonathanThompson> Been 29 days since I rebooted my iMac.[22:41:09] *** ereslibre_laptop has quit IRC[22:41:20] <JonathanThompson> Though for some reason, it says I need to reboot to install the latest Safari update.[22:41:24] *** Ingenu_ has joined #haiku[22:41:27] * JonathanThompson shakes head[22:41:39] *** ereslibre_laptop has joined #haiku[22:41:39] *** ereslibre_laptop has joined #haiku[22:41:40] <vooshy> JonathonThompson: you know you want to, that reset buttons looking at you[22:41:41] <Ingenu_> I don't waste energy ![22:41:54] <Ingenu_> ol[22:41:57] <Ingenu_> lol[22:42:01] <Ingenu_> reset buttons[22:42:07] <JonathanThompson> vooshy: actually, no: it's on the back of the machine :p[22:42:20] <Ingenu_> they morphed to answer shitty windows needs[22:42:40] <Ingenu_> they used to be difficult to reach[22:43:10] <vooshy> JonathonThompson: hows the job hunt?[22:43:17] <JonathanThompson> Frustrating.[22:43:44] * Ingenu_ tends to be like that[22:43:58] <JonathanThompson> Got told by one recruiter yesterday when I inquired about a position that I'd been too unstable for job history.... there I am, being damned by choosing places that inevitably have layoffs.[22:44:17] <vooshy> JonathonThompson: have you ever thought of putting an application into haiku inc?[22:44:48] <JonathanThompson> An interesting thought.... I wonder what it pays, since if it isn't enough to pay expenses, I can't afford to as the only job.[22:45:15] <JonathanThompson> Unemployment is running out soon for the extended unemployment as it is...[22:45:29] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[22:45:31] *** Ingenu_ is now known as Ingenu[22:45:37] <JonathanThompson> And I'm living in a fairly expensive area, and have COBRA payments and a car payment, unfortunately.[22:46:10] <vooshy> oh well chin up, something will find you[22:46:14] <JonathanThompson> My rent is probably as cheap as it can get around here, actually.[22:46:30] <JonathanThompson> That's because I'm sharing a place with a guy that lives very cheap, and I[22:46:32] <JonathanThompson> m[22:46:45] <JonathanThompson> in the closest thing to the slums of Mercer Island.[22:47:14] <JonathanThompson> Where the building doesn't meet modern code, and I keep thinking my roommate's cell phone is ringing when it's one of the neighbors :p[22:47:31] <JonathanThompson> I know one neighbor enjoys a particular FPS game.[22:47:48] <vooshy> broken keyboard noises?[22:47:51] <JonathanThompson> And the upstairs neighbor of our upstairs neighbor has a really nasty and loud cough.[22:48:31] <JonathanThompson> As in: I thought it was someone in our most immediately upstairs neighbor's apartment, but met one of them, and they told me it was THEIR upstairs neighbor I'm hearing through the ceiling.[22:48:48] <vooshy> doesnt sound great, can understand why you leave your imac on, try and drown the noise out[22:48:53] * JonathanThompson is glad he's not living in their apartment[22:49:05] <JonathanThompson> That, and provide a little waste heat.[22:49:13] <JonathanThompson> My roommate refuses to turn on the heat.[22:49:13] <Ingenu> o_o[22:49:19] <Ingenu> O_o[22:49:27] <Ingenu> o_O[22:49:31] <Ingenu> O_O[22:49:48] <JonathanThompson> Not as big of a deal for him: he's got a regular job with a nice environment he can escape to.[22:50:03] <Ingenu> just turned mine up[22:50:10] <JonathanThompson> Oh, also: for the job hunt, there's no telling when I'll be contacted by a recruiter/potential employer.[22:50:12] <curlyman> JonathanThompson: You're a member of COBRA?[22:50:16] <Ingenu> office is so overheaten[22:50:23] <Ingenu> I find home cold[22:50:40] * JonathanThompson suspects curlyman doesn't catch the US reference to the non-cartoon[22:50:44] <Ingenu> stupid open space with tons of wasting computers[22:51:03] <JonathanThompson> Actually, my iMac isn't very noisy, and doesn't seem to generate much waste heat.[22:51:04] <Ingenu> I bet intel cpu waste more energy than they use[22:51:19] <JonathanThompson> It's a 2 Ghz Core 2 Duo.[22:51:44] * curlyman has free heat in his building[22:51:48] <JonathanThompson> And not very high-end built-in graphics.[22:52:02] <Ingenu> norhing is ever free[22:52:22] <JonathanThompson> So, not an awful lot of wasted power compared to a gamer's machine.[22:52:22] <Ingenu> expect the code you don't write neither run[22:52:50] <curlyman> Ingenu: Sun did a report that said Intel CPUs NOOP 50% of the time.[22:52:53] <Ingenu> (no there's no logical fault in my sentence :p)[22:52:59] *** leszek has quit IRC[22:53:41] <Ingenu> and more cores[22:53:45] <Ingenu> idling[22:53:56] <Ingenu> but still wasting[22:54:06] *** leszek has joined #haiku[22:54:20] <curlyman> Moral of the story? Buy an iPad.[22:54:46] <vooshy> curlyman: what is the obsession with that device?[22:55:12] <curlyman> vooshy: You can order it today. Tomorrow I'm be normal again[22:56:09] <curlyman> s/I'm/I'll[22:56:41] <vooshy> curlyman: good to know, wouldnt a clipboard and pen be more useful though?[22:57:09] <JonathanThompson> Depends on what you're wanting to do, vooshy :p[22:57:12] <curlyman> vooshy: How am i going to play games with a clipboard adn pen?[22:57:19] * JonathanThompson waits for someone to watch a movie on a clipboard[22:57:34] <Ingenu> I heard pidgins are slow for Australua[22:57:34] <curlyman> Games, movies, music, and Interporn[22:57:36] <Ingenu> u/i[22:57:44] <JonathanThompson> curlyman: I can think of some games you can play, but will YOU want to play them?[22:57:45] <vooshy> curlyman: hangman[22:59:25] <vooshy> curlyman: http://www.e4.com/video/jMTtofKSB4UjxayhIfHQac/play.e4[22:59:31] <JonathanThompson> Or: hangman: curlyman ![22:59:51] * JonathanThompson draws curlyman's face for missing a letter[23:01:17] *** ereslibre_laptop has quit IRC[23:03:01] <CIA-50> mmadia * r35831 /buildtools/trunk/gcc/gmp/configure:[23:03:01] <CIA-50> Changes the setting of M4 to =m4. Allows Python on linux to successfully[23:03:01] <CIA-50> compile the buildtools. Fixes #5561[23:08:34] *** jan__64 has quit IRC[23:09:25] *** rxt0 has joined #haiku[23:13:16] <curlyman> I would like to play D&D[23:13:31] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[23:13:42] <JonathanThompson> Do you have the DNA to play D&D?[23:14:36] <curlyman> JonathanThompson: ?[23:14:42] <JonathanThompson> :p[23:14:47] <JonathanThompson> Silly word games.[23:14:59] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[23:16:41] <Ingenu> D&D[23:17:02] <Ingenu> tell me you don't mean the tabletop miniature game[23:17:09] <curlyman> I like Angband and Spelunky[23:17:18] <Ingenu> but the older RPG[23:17:28] <curlyman> Ingenu: pen and paper[23:17:34] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[23:18:14] <Advant> Ultima on NES was fun[23:18:40] *** ecin has quit IRC[23:18:42] <curlyman> My older brother played Battletech tabletop[23:20:00] *** m0ns00n_ has quit IRC[23:20:28] *** Colin_Finck|afk has quit IRC[23:21:57] <Ingenu> curlyman: it was a pun about DnD4 not beong an RPG[23:22:03] <Ingenu> o/i[23:22:22] <Ingenu> previous versions were trying at least[23:22:32] <Ingenu> now it's just junk[23:24:25] *** Kokito has quit IRC[23:24:38] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[23:25:41] *** ivor42 has joined #haiku[23:30:01] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[23:30:42] *** leszek has quit IRC[23:31:32] <JonathanThompson> Aha! Just got a call from a recruiter, and it seems there's a chance I'll get an interview at Wizards of the Coast.[23:31:32] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[23:31:50] <JonathanThompson> It's been shortlisted.[23:31:57] <JonathanThompson> (My resume)[23:32:21] <vooshy> good luck, wish i knew who they are[23:32:33] <JonathanThompson> They're the people that make Magic: the Gathering.[23:32:48] <vooshy> ah ok[23:32:52] <JonathanThompson> AKA "Cardboard Crack" :p[23:33:34] *** Animal-X has quit IRC[23:34:55] *** MrBIO829 has quit IRC[23:35:09] *** MrBIO829 has joined #haiku[23:35:28] <vooshy> just remember for the interview there the "world leader in hobby games" lol[23:35:47] <JonathanThompson> :)[23:36:34] <Ingenu> they make DnD[23:36:50] <JonathanThompson> That, too.[23:37:09] <Ingenu> Star Wars RPG...[23:37:23] * JonathanThompson realizes he needs to crack down and whittle his M:tG deck down for a tournament tonight for employment purposes...[23:37:57] <JonathanThompson> IF I get in there, it's a requirement that I have a sufficient understanding of the M:tG rules: that's not a nice thing, but a required thing to have.[23:38:20] <JonathanThompson> Rather, for me to get in there, I must have that.[23:39:02] <Ingenu> google is your friend[23:39:26] <JonathanThompson> Reading them is one thing, understanding them well enough is another.[23:39:45] <JonathanThompson> I've read the rules, but I need to be even more fluent in things...[23:39:59] <JonathanThompson> The complete rules are around 90K words, IIRC.[23:43:52] <Ingenu> it's just a game[23:44:03] <JonathanThompson> True, but a very complex one.[23:44:22] <Ingenu> chess is better[23:44:31] <Ingenu> simple rules[23:44:41] <Ingenu> powerful consequences[23:44:43] <curlyman> Go is better than Chess[23:44:47] <Ingenu> = good[23:44:59] <JonathanThompson> And I've designed a game that's deeper than Go with simpler rules.[23:45:48] <Ingenu> I've designed a game simpler with more complex rules :p[23:46:15] <Ingenu> RPG tend to be likect[23:46:18] <Ingenu> that[23:46:42] *** leszek has joined #haiku[23:46:45] <JonathanThompson> For an RPG, it's precisely because there's a simple basic format with fill in the blanks that makes it work.[23:46:53] <AlienSoldier> i like rock pape scisor, very simple[23:46:54] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[23:46:54] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku[23:47:12] <JonathanThompson> I like cat and mouse, simpler still ;)[23:47:43] <AlienSoldier> it would be if only the mose, but cat are so complicated :P[23:47:49] <AlienSoldier> *mouse[23:47:56] <AlienSoldier> cat and moose would be interesting[23:48:23] <AlienSoldier> 2 anymal i never saw togueter .... ever[23:48:43] *** leszek has quit IRC[23:48:44] <AlienSoldier> wow i need to put some typo oil in mu joint[23:48:48] <AlienSoldier> *my[23:49:00] <Ingenu> lo[23:49:01] <Ingenu> lol[23:49:06] <AlienSoldier> hehe[23:49:08] <Ingenu> ^^[23:54:50] * JonathanThompson wonders if AlienSoldier is drinking drunken cats and typing with a moose doing spellchecking[23:56:21] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[23:56:23] <AlienSoldier> all that and some :)[23:57:37] <Ingenu> bedtime[23:57:52] <Ingenu> see you guys[23:58:15] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:59:46] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku