[00:01:35] *** noldsel has joined #haiku
[00:01:59] *** diogen has quit IRC
[00:04:07] *** brobostigon has quit IRC
[00:05:04] *** luroh1 has joined #haiku
[00:05:47] *** luroh has quit IRC
[00:06:43] *** genki has quit IRC
[00:10:15] *** Barrett_ has quit IRC
[00:12:24] *** ecin has quit IRC
[00:13:04] *** ecin has joined #haiku
[00:14:40] *** Andrius has quit IRC
[00:16:43] *** VinDuv_ has quit IRC
[00:24:38] *** Barrett_ has joined #haiku
[00:25:48] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku
[00:27:34] *** McBersas2 has quit IRC
[00:27:54] *** petterhj has quit IRC
[00:30:40] *** ecin has quit IRC
[00:33:07] <l_n> helf|laptop: it was a desktop ide card
[00:33:18] *** phoudoin has quit IRC
[00:34:29] <helf|laptop> l_n, i thougt your GFs laptop needed a hdd or am i confusing you with someone else?
[00:40:15] <l_n> might be.. my desktop ide bus took a shit on me. i found a card for $16 though.. just have to order it.
[00:44:10] *** petterhj has joined #haiku
[00:48:28] *** Nozy has quit IRC
[00:50:57] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC
[00:52:14] <Advant> Doesn't tar have an option to ungzip while untar'ing?
[00:52:41] <mmadia> yes.
[00:52:52] <Advant> didn't see it in man
[00:52:54] <mmadia> (i think)
[00:52:58] <DraX> ..
[00:52:59] <DraX> uhh
[00:53:02] <DraX> gunzip <file>
[00:53:06] <DraX> or gzip -d <file>
[00:53:11] <Advant> i know that
[00:53:15] <Advant> not the question i asked
[00:53:48] <Advant> seems osx tar can compress, dosen't list decompress though
[00:54:22] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[00:54:52] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[00:55:15] <l_n> tar xvf <filename> will autodetect compression and run it through the appropriate utility
[00:55:55] <l_n> this sucks.. i accidentally jabbed the tip of my index finger with a screwdriver at work today.. it's making it hard to type due to the pain..
[00:56:01] <DraX> that's not what he wants
[00:56:11] <DraX> he wants to remove the compression but leave a tar
[00:56:27] <l_n> no, he specifically said "while untar'ing"
[00:56:36] *** ziomatto has quit IRC
[00:56:36] <DraX> oh
[00:56:39] <DraX> i read that as without
[00:56:43] <DraX> it's z
[00:56:53] <DraX> if you're using bsdtar you can just do -xf
[00:56:58] <DraX> and it will automatically figure it out
[00:57:05] <l_n> linux tar does now, too.
[00:57:32] <l_n> i got spoiled on fbsd and out of habit left out the compression flag in lunix and it worked, much to my surprise.
[00:57:38] <mmadia> *gnu tar  ;)
[00:57:50] <DraX> you can basically do anything in bsdtar
[00:57:57] <DraX> will still work
[00:58:14] <DraX> and bsdtar is getting xzutil support
[00:58:48] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[00:59:29] <Advant> man perl on osx is pain in ass
[00:59:45] <Advant> can't ever get modules to install without a shit load of effort
[01:00:44] <DraX> that's os x for you
[01:00:57] <Advant> no kidding
[01:02:15] <DraX> it's fun hearing the folks at work bitch about trying to install python modules
[01:02:15] <helf|laptop> l_n, make sure that $16 ide card is bootable :p
[01:02:23] <helf|laptop> i bought mine thinking it might be a while back and its not
[01:02:25] *** OlaHughson has quit IRC
[01:02:54] <l_n> programming books are so tedious to start...
[01:03:52] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[01:03:54] <l_n> and the fact that i don't have access to sbcl makes reading 'practical common lisp' a bit more difficult. i miss save-lisp-and-die
[01:05:04] *** Kokito has joined #haiku
[01:05:04] <Advant> DraX: is proble installing, or compiling and passing tests to install?
[01:05:05] <Advant> problem
[01:05:13] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC
[01:05:37] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku
[01:06:40] <l_n> 'ello, OmniMancer
[01:07:38] <DraX> Advant: depends on the module
[01:07:44] <DraX> a lot of it is the weird pathes os x uses
[01:07:49] <DraX> all that Framework bs
[01:07:52] <CIA-50> kirilla * r35807 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/deskbar/BarApp.h: Change message constant to not use all upper case, which is the system namespace. Thanks Ingo.
[01:09:30] <Advant> I mostly favor cygwin on Windows
[01:09:58] <DraX> windows...
[01:10:01] <l_n> meh. that wasn't helpful. i just asked in #lisp if there was an argument to the sbcl build system to make it output more information when it fails, and i got told to cross-test with closures.. as if i'm trying to debug something i wrote that won't build instead of building sbcl itself..
[01:10:42] <Advant> though recent mistake of installing gcc 3 instead of gcc 4 caused me a lot of headache in installing perl modules
[01:10:57] <DraX> it's funny, for school i went to an almost entirely mac school (most of the labs, most of the students) and my work is almost all macs too
[01:11:04] <DraX> so i see very little windows
[01:11:17] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[01:13:22] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[01:14:00] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmadia
[01:14:29] <OmniMancer> poor drax
[01:14:52] * OmniMancer gives DraX some spare windows to brighten his rooms.
[01:16:20] <DraX> :P
[01:18:12] <Advant> DraX: were you actually doing much work in the labs? :P
[01:18:26] <Advant> I went to lab to bullshit on internet between a class or two
[01:18:41] <DraX> no, i had a laptop
[01:18:42] <DraX> :P
[01:19:02] <DraX> i used the labs to print papers occasionally
[01:19:11] <DraX> since i had free printing
[01:19:16] <Advant> my macbook is primarily a video player, have hdmi out to TV :)
[01:19:50] <Advant> There was this exploit for printing for free at my UNI on unix.  You print, then cancel but it would already be in prtiner memory queue
[01:19:58] <Advant> :)
[01:21:58] <Advant> This sucks, I can't get DBD::mysql to work with MAP
[01:22:02] <Advant> MAMP
[01:24:33] *** Koki_ has quit IRC
[01:27:08] <Advant> GUess I'm going to goto my windows desktop
[01:29:33] <saivert> yup. cancelling printout fails on a lot of printers
[01:30:14] <saivert> sometimes it works only half-way. you push cancel but then it just prints half the page and then feeds out the sheet of paper
[01:31:15] <Advant> Anyone suggest a WAMP? :)
[01:33:52] *** Nozy has joined #haiku
[01:36:03] <saivert> you just need someone for local testing and development?
[01:36:07] <saivert> then I guess anything goes
[01:36:15] <saivert> appserv, xampp, etc.
[01:36:24] <saivert> *something
[01:36:51] <Advant> i googled, wampserver came up, didn't know if its legit and good
[01:37:26] *** ecin has joined #haiku
[01:39:29] <saivert> I tried this last time: http://en.wlmp-project.net/downloads.php?cat=wlmp
[01:39:51] <saivert> but their Lighttpd build seems to be using up one my CPU cores after a while.
[01:40:00] <saivert> so not stable yet
[01:40:38] <saivert> Apache receives a lot more development and porting efforts so it's always a sure bet. Might consume a lot of memory but it's stable at least
[01:41:31] <saivert> I'm more of a fan of setting up things myself instead of relying on a all-in-one package.
[01:42:13] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[01:43:01] <Advant> yeah
[01:43:11] <Advant> well, doing individually on OSX was a fucking nightmare
[01:43:18] <Advant> utter cluster fuck
[01:43:35] *** petterhj has quit IRC
[01:43:56] <Advant> i had to upgrade to snow to fix basic dependency issues i was having
[01:44:39] <Advant> i'm running Win7, which adds to complications, I may build a quick XP vm to run this on
[01:44:39] <OmniMancer> :(
[01:44:44] <OmniMancer> go destroy apple
[01:45:11] <Advant> my last mactop :)
[01:45:22] <Advant> makes one nice media center though, hehe
[01:46:15] <saivert> Advant: if you are going to run a VM why not just go with Linux when you're at it? at least then you get a full webserver, mysql, php ready
[01:46:42] <saivert> they even have complete pre-made VM (or virtual appliances) that you can download and run in an instant
[01:47:31] <Advant> saivert: yeah, i've found SELinux to be a big hassel as well
[01:48:22] <saivert> I got Arch Linux with Lighttpd, php installed but I ran into issues with serving content from a mounted Samba share. seems like PHP doesn't like executing scripts located remotely
[01:48:31] <Advant> hehe
[01:48:45] <Advant> share is just another path, wonder why
[01:48:59] <saivert> when you run VMs you would like to have the web content located outside the VM's virtual HDD
[01:49:18] <saivert> so you don't have to have a HUGE virtual HDD with all the web content in
[01:49:28] <Advant> saivert: recommend any virtual appliances, maybe should searchf or xampp VA?
[01:50:08] <saivert> do you use vmware or xen or ?
[01:50:12] <Advant> vmware
[01:50:28] <saivert> look around: http://www.vmware.com/appliances/
[01:52:24] <Advant> only one xampp and has old version of perl, 5.8
[01:52:49] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku
[01:53:01] <OmniMancer> where new version is?
[01:54:05] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC
[01:55:22] <CyberKitsune> Hello
[01:56:12] <CyberKitsune> I have a GigaWire USB Headset, and Haiku isn't detecting it in Media
[01:56:28] <CyberKitsune> are USB Sound cards not implanted yet?
[01:58:52] <saivert> *supported. but yeah.. implanted was a nice one.
[02:00:13] <mmlr_mc> they aren't, no
[02:01:19] <CyberKitsune> heh
[02:01:21] <CyberKitsune> Well
[02:01:33] <CyberKitsune> My built in Soundcard is detected
[02:01:36] <CyberKitsune> but no sound
[02:01:37] <CyberKitsune> :<
[02:01:56] <saivert> no sound on VMWare either.
[02:02:21] *** Geoz has quit IRC
[02:02:33] <CyberKitsune> I get sound on VMWare, actually
[02:02:41] <saivert> you found a driver?
[02:02:55] <CyberKitsune> No
[02:03:11] <CyberKitsune> You need to set this in the config:
[02:03:16] <CyberKitsune> er
[02:03:19] <saivert> .vmx
[02:03:19] <CyberKitsune> your .vmx file
[02:03:22] <CyberKitsune> yeah
[02:03:29] <Advant> OmniMancer: new perl is 5.10
[02:03:53] <saivert> I know you have to have: ethernet0.virtualDev = "e1000"
[02:04:00] <saivert> because there is no AMD PCnet driver
[02:04:25] <CyberKitsune> Wait
[02:04:35] <saivert> sound.virtualDev = sb16
[02:04:37] <CyberKitsune> I don't have a custom sound device set wtf
[02:04:38] <CyberKitsune> Oj
[02:04:39] <CyberKitsune> Oh!
[02:04:45] <CyberKitsune> saivert, Don't do that
[02:04:48] <CyberKitsune> remove the sb16
[02:04:53] <CyberKitsune> and install OpenSound
[02:05:05] <CyberKitsune> in a terminal
[02:05:08] <saivert> well then it defaults to es1371
[02:05:16] <CyberKitsune> installoptionalpackage -a OpenSound
[02:05:20] <CyberKitsune> works for me
[02:05:24] <saivert> yes but is that a separate sound layer?
[02:05:32] <saivert> how does that work with apps?
[02:05:43] <CyberKitsune> It adds to the Haiku sound server iirc
[02:05:49] <CyberKitsune> it's like a collection of drivers
[02:06:01] <CyberKitsune> works great for me, MediaPlayer, VLC, etc
[02:06:24] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku
[02:06:25] <saivert> not that I actually need the sound in the VM. I listen to music in foobar2000 on windows
[02:06:57] <saivert> sound works fine on my laptop without OpenSound
[02:07:07] <saivert> Realtek sound chip. pretty universal
[02:07:50] <CyberKitsune> Mine's an Intel HDA
[02:07:59] <CyberKitsune> Detected, but no actual audio
[02:08:09] <CyberKitsune> due to probablly a pin setting
[02:08:23] *** ecin has quit IRC
[02:08:39] <CyberKitsune> I don't know that for sure though =V but if a dev could verify that, that
[02:08:44] <CyberKitsune> I don't know that for sure though =V but if a dev could verify that, that'd be awesome**
[02:08:54] <saivert> only thing that bugs me is lack of mouse integration. the mouse acceleration or accuracy in Haiku is completely weird when inside a VM
[02:09:15] <CyberKitsune> On physical hardware mouse is fine for me
[02:09:20] <saivert> I found a driver once, but forgot to bookmark the address
[02:10:52] <mmlr_mc> saivert: we do have a vmware mouse filter in the haiku repository
[02:11:07] <mmlr_mc> it's just not added by default because it conflicts on real hardware
[02:19:18] *** Colin_Finck has quit IRC
[02:20:20] *** triplez has quit IRC
[02:21:43] <mmlr_mc> for reference it is called vmware_mouse and supposed to be installed as an input_server filter add-on
[02:21:43] <OmniMancer> saivert: turn down the acceleration in the guest it messes with the acceleration in the host
[02:22:10] <mmlr_mc> it can be compiled from the tree
[02:22:29] <OmniMancer> otherwise just turn the accel down since the host accel does mess with it
[02:24:34] *** bradsco has quit IRC
[02:25:13] *** mmlr_mc has quit IRC
[02:26:32] <saivert> yes you can add vmware mouse in the jam file
[02:26:40] <saivert> just found it in the source tree. it's indeed there
[02:26:58] <saivert> http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/input_server/filters/vmware_mouse
[02:30:16] *** extor has quit IRC
[02:34:13] *** Barrett_ has quit IRC
[02:50:45] *** ecin has joined #haiku
[02:51:15] *** margiolas has quit IRC
[02:59:33] * Disreali_ is away: AFK
[02:59:41] <Disreali_> whoops
[02:59:49] *** Disreali_ is now known as Disreali
[03:00:14] *** aldeck has quit IRC
[03:00:55] *** zmisc has joined #haiku
[03:01:17] <zmisc> Is the VM image located on any FTP sites or HTTP only
[03:01:43] *** jmelesky has quit IRC
[03:01:49] <Disreali> I beleive it is just http.
[03:02:27] <Disreali> you can use wget or curl to d/l the file also
[03:06:30] *** oco has quit IRC
[03:10:51] *** Disreali2 has joined #haiku
[03:12:26] <Disreali2> greeetings
[03:15:37] *** Disreali2 has quit IRC
[03:16:14] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[03:17:29] *** |nfamy has quit IRC
[03:17:48] *** Disreali2 has joined #haiku
[03:27:41] <l_n> do use svn + jam to generate an image..
[03:27:45] <l_n> s/do/or/
[03:27:57] * l_n wonders how in the hell he made that error..
[03:33:01] *** leavengood has joined #haiku
[03:37:05] <OmniMancer> typing too fast so you mixed the order up and also hit d since its close to r?
[03:38:52] <l_n> it's also possible my brain was mixing up irc thoughts v. lisp stuff.
[03:40:44] <mmadia> too many keyboards on desk!
[03:41:16] <mmadia> anyone know of a util to test a PSU for load-related failures?
[03:41:33] <l_n> a multimeter?
[03:41:51] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[03:41:53] <OmniMancer> l_n: you are a lisper?
[03:42:29] <l_n> making a {2nd,3rd} attempt to get through pcl. i love the language, but can't find the time to finish even one book about it.
[03:43:03] <l_n> i got clisp to compile in haiku, but i accidentally nuked the altered source tree....
[03:43:33] <l_n> OTOH, it runs and compiles lisp code.
[03:43:43] <OmniMancer> :)
[03:43:57] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[03:43:59] <OmniMancer> I need to finish reading some of the nice lisp books
[03:44:21] <OmniMancer> mmadia: try disconnecting things one at a time till the PSU stops failing :P
[03:44:28] <leavengood> the best way to learn a language is try to right something serious in it
[03:44:57] <mmadia> it boots and seemingly works.. i'm wondering if it gets flaky under high load.
[03:45:18] <l_n> leavengood: no books, eh?
[03:45:42] <leavengood> l_n: nah books are good, but the real learning comes from trying to do something
[03:46:05] <leavengood> like I have that book recommended on the mailing list, Effective C++
[03:46:10] <leavengood> read through most of it a while ago
[03:46:22] <leavengood> but I never tried to apply it to some code, so I never REALLY learned it
[03:46:30] *** Kokito has quit IRC
[03:47:21] <l_n> yeah.. i can see how that works.. the book gives you the basic ideas, but you only learn how to apply them by *doing* something with it.
[03:47:32] *** Kokito has joined #haiku
[03:47:36] <leavengood> l_n: pretty much
[03:48:17] <l_n> hrm.. IIRC, the FFI in clisp is broken in the binary i built.. which is not good if i want to access the BeAPI from within a lisp program...
[03:48:25] *** Koki_ has joined #haiku
[03:48:49] *** Koki_ has quit IRC
[03:50:53] *** tic has quit IRC
[03:54:01] <OmniMancer> you won't be able to anyway
[03:54:10] <OmniMancer> lisp FFIs don't do C++
[03:55:40] <Disreali2> leavengood, that was an excellent interview. Is it link on the haiku-os main page?
[03:55:41] <OmniMancer> you will have to bind it to C first
[03:56:51] <Disreali2> hey wow. corey haim died
[03:57:04] <leavengood> Disreali2: I put up a blog post and put it on the front page
[03:57:24] <Disreali2> leavengood, very cool
[03:57:48] <Disreali2> I can't  resolve haiku-os.org atm
[03:59:11] <OmniMancer> l_n: ?
[04:01:22] *** Nozy1 has joined #haiku
[04:01:22] *** Nozy has quit IRC
[04:04:45] *** Kokito has quit IRC
[04:04:47] * Disreali2 is idle: beer run
[04:09:11] *** Kokito has joined #haiku
[04:09:43] <l_n> OmniMancer: bathing the 1.33333... yr old
[04:10:49] <l_n> ugh.. this show gets worse every episode... (american idol)
[04:12:17] <OmniMancer> ah
[04:12:37] <largo> Disreali2: haiku-os.org is working fine here.
[04:20:35] *** Nozy1 has quit IRC
[04:21:25] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku
[04:23:45] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[04:24:07] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[04:27:25] *** triplez has joined #haiku
[04:29:24] * Disreali2 has returned
[04:31:39] <largo> welcome back :)
[04:32:55] <Disreali2> thanks. it was  a nice walk to the local beer mart
[04:33:19] <leavengood> hehe
[04:33:29] *** kallisti6 has joined #haiku
[04:33:42] <Disreali2> beer is good food
[04:33:54] *** Syn- has joined #haiku
[04:34:30] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC
[04:34:53] * largo wishes he had beer right now. *sigh*
[04:35:08] <largo> leavengood: I'm checking out your interview. :)
[04:35:44] <leavengood> cool
[04:35:58] <leavengood> I listened to it earlier ;)
[04:36:04] <leavengood> not too bad I suppose, hehe
[04:36:09] *** kallisti5 has quit IRC
[04:36:37] * Disreali2 hands largo an Ommagang
[04:36:44] <largo> I have it paused at the moment though... my lying cheating whore of an ex girlfriend from ~7 years ago is pestering me on AIM... *sigh*
[04:36:47] * largo is far too nice to her.
[04:37:03] <leavengood> heh
[04:37:08] <largo> Disreali2: gracias! ;) (although I have no idea what that is..)
[04:37:11] <Disreali2> indeed largo.
[04:37:11] <leavengood> IGNORE ;)
[04:37:36] <largo> leavengood: well I feel bad... she had cancer and lost a kidney recently... my sympathy is getting the better of me. :P
[04:37:37] <Disreali2> 7 years ago? oy vay
[04:38:01] <largo> she's a sweet girl.. just a lying cheater who can't seem to help herself. :P haha
[04:38:08] <Disreali2> oh...  that is a different situation
[04:38:11] <leavengood> largo: yeah it is sometimes tough being a nice person :/
[04:38:57] *** biesi has quit IRC
[04:39:06] <largo> she's one of those girls that dreams of the fairytale romance and would fall for the guys on-line who would tell her everything she wanted to hear long enough to get her in bed.
[04:39:12] <largo> ah well. :) not my problem anymore.
[04:39:19] <Disreali2> largo: Ommagang is a Belgian Abby-style from Cooperstown, NY
[04:39:42] <largo> Disreali2: I wonder if I could get ahold of one up here in Michigan?
[04:39:51] <Disreali2> a local beer for me
[04:41:08] <Disreali2> largo,  if you can get Duval, you should be able to get Ommagang, as Duval own them now
[04:41:11] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC
[04:42:05] <largo> I'll probably ask my friend Arend... he's always buying microbrews and different beers...
[04:42:10] <largo> I'm generally a Bud Light guy. ;)
[04:42:48] *** biesi has joined #haiku
[04:42:59] <Disreali2> to each their own...
[04:44:35] <Kokito> good evening gentlemen
[04:44:58] <largo> I drink to get drunk, not generally to appreciate the finer qualities of the drink. hence 18 beers for $14 is better than 3 beers for $14. ;)
[04:45:04] <saivert> open source and micro brewing goes hand in hand
[04:45:06] <largo> Kokito: こんばんは～
[04:45:46] <zmisc> saivert: hehe
[04:46:01] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku
[04:47:03] <Kokito> hey largo こんばんは :)
[04:47:35] <largo> saivert: one of my friends microbrews... he wanted to get a few of us to go in on it with him and try making a bigger go of it.
[04:47:48] <saivert> yes, and what license ?
[04:48:00] <saivert> for the beer
[04:48:06] <largo> I don't know the details.
[04:48:30] <largo> like I said, I just drink my bud light. I'm quite ignorant of the ins and outs of microbrewing.
[04:49:00] <largo> zmisc: that would be cmecca by the way. ;)
[04:49:23] *** triplez has quit IRC
[04:49:52] <zmisc> I didn't know that
[04:53:05] *** kallisti6 has quit IRC
[04:53:33] *** triplez has joined #haiku
[04:57:35] *** kallisti5 has joined #haiku
[05:02:59] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[05:05:19] *** danlarkin has joined #haiku
[05:05:43] *** Kokito has quit IRC
[05:05:43] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[05:09:48] *** cmecca has joined #haiku
[05:09:54] <cmecca> did i hear microbrew questions? :P
[05:10:59] *** marmida has joined #haiku
[05:12:40] <CIA-50> scottmc * r632 /haikuports/trunk/app-editors/nano/nano.OptionalPackageDescription: Updated .OptionalPackageDescription file for nano to update copyright date.
[05:15:14] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[05:16:24] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[05:18:41] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku
[05:21:32] *** Disreali has quit IRC
[05:21:53] *** Disreali2 has quit IRC
[05:22:56] <mmadia> ... hopefully that'll be my last reboot for a while :)
[05:23:30] *** kallisti5 has quit IRC
[05:26:23] <OmniMancer> yay
[05:28:37] *** zmisc has quit IRC
[05:30:33] *** DBAlex has left #haiku
[05:31:43] *** prOSy has joined #haiku
[05:44:10] <largo> cmecca: well, saivert was talking about it. :)
[05:48:20] *** CK|iPod has joined #haiku
[05:48:28] *** triplez has quit IRC
[05:48:34] *** triplez has joined #haiku
[05:53:27] <panopticon> largo, did i thank you for helping me with the grub-entry?
[05:53:37] <largo> yes. :)
[05:53:41] <largo> my pleasure. :)
[05:55:53] <panopticon> how long have you been using Haiku?
[05:56:52] *** linkslice has joined #haiku
[05:57:15] *** linkslice has quit IRC
[05:57:32] *** linkslice has joined #haiku
[06:00:43] <saivert> cmecca: I was only asking what license (as in GPL, BSD, Creative Commons) the brew used
[06:00:45] *** PathagenX has quit IRC
[06:01:05] <saivert> more as a joke since I said before "open source and micro brewing goes hand in hand"
[06:01:31] *** kallisti5 has joined #haiku
[06:05:56] <jmayfield_> i think apple own the copyright on "use of hops with water and other ingredients to brew an alchoholic beverage in ones home"
[06:06:12] <CIA-50> mmadia * r35808 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/ (OptionalPackageDependencies OptionalPackages):
[06:06:12] <CIA-50> Removed the optional package "Firefox". People building their own images may
[06:06:12] <CIA-50> need to edit their UserBuildConfig to use "BeZillaBrowser".
[06:06:13] <jmayfield_> patent
[06:06:16] <jmayfield_> i mean
[06:06:26] *** leavengood has quit IRC
[06:06:59] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku
[06:09:25] <OmniMancer> you can't patent a concept, only a particular method
[06:09:33] *** largo has quit IRC
[06:13:17] *** largo has joined #haiku
[06:13:40] <jmayfield_> tell that to apple.. heh  some of their patents blur that distinction pretty well
[06:14:24] <OmniMancer> :(
[06:14:32] *** kallisti5 has quit IRC
[06:14:34] <OmniMancer> apple is just an evil evil company
[06:15:31] <jmayfield_> no shit.. almost as evil as the apple user people that perform moral/legal acrobatics in order to justify apples actions
[06:16:12] <jmayfield_> "hey.. its their company.. they can do what they want.. its business.."
[06:16:21] <jmayfield_> *punch to head*
[06:16:32] <jmayfield_> hehe
[06:16:55] <DraX> yes, fanboys are worse than apple itself
[06:17:20] <DraX> if people would stop putting up with what apple does things would probably be better for it
[06:17:22] <jmayfield_> what i love is how their insane rules for iphone apps are justifies as "quality control"..
[06:17:32] <Skipp_OSX> technically you can patent a concept
[06:17:36] <jmayfield_> usge control, more like it
[06:18:49] <jmayfield_> Skipp_OSX, like "unlocking  device using a gesture on an unlocking graphic"
[06:19:28] <jmayfield_> its called a SWITCH.. in real life you 'gesture' on switches to change their f'ing position..
[06:19:29] <Skipp_OSX> jmayfield_: sure, you can patent that
[06:19:33] <jmayfield_> how?
[06:19:35] <jmayfield_> its insane
[06:20:09] <jmayfield_> why cant i patent "using a hinge to facilitate the opening/closing of a door"?
[06:20:23] <Skipp_OSX> well, the gesture is a unique spin on the idea
[06:20:27] <jmayfield_> BS
[06:20:49] <jmayfield_> its an ancient idea that is now doable in software
[06:21:40] *** __goo__ has joined #haiku
[06:21:47] <Skipp_OSX> well, the Marconi company had the patent for communicating over radio waves at one time
[06:22:09] <jmayfield_> previous abuses dont legitimate current ones
[06:22:22] <jmayfield_> legitimize, whatever
[06:22:25] <jmayfield_> heh
[06:22:47] <Skipp_OSX> and since all computers use radio waves (electricity is a radio wave) if that patent was still valid the Marconi company would have the patent on all communication that happens on a computer
[06:23:22] <Skipp_OSX> so patenting basic concepts is nothing new
[06:23:41] <Bushmills> unless the computer was build from valves, operated on steam
[06:23:43] <jmayfield_> i want the patent on "use of a gesture to indicate 'fuck off' to another human"
[06:25:11] <Skipp_OSX> but you have to understand Apples position, if they don't patent the idea, someone else will
[06:25:46] <Skipp_OSX> patents are used by big companies to sue other companies and more importantly as a defense against other companies from suing them
[06:25:46] <jmayfield_> i understand that.. its still f'ing wrong, and somebody needs to end it
[06:26:38] <Skipp_OSX> almost all patent suits are filed by desperate companies trying to grab some capitol, not to protect a legit invention
[06:27:06] <Skipp_OSX> so yes, the patent system is basically broken, at least when it comes to software
[06:28:30] <Skipp_OSX> but, bedtime for me
[06:28:33] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC
[06:28:46] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC
[06:32:01] <OmniMancer> AFAIK the patenting system specifically prohibits patenting concepts, only implementations
[06:32:22] <OmniMancer> otherwise I could say patent the concept of living and force everyone to pay me money :P
[06:32:52] <OmniMancer> also skipp_OSX didn't have a very good understanding of the way computers work did he?
[06:32:53] <DraX> no since you can't patent something that people have already invented :P
[06:34:07] *** CK|iPod_ has joined #haiku
[06:34:07] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC
[06:34:08] *** CK|iPod_ is now known as CK|iPod
[06:34:34] <__goo__> I want to build the haiku source. Base system : Ubuntu 9.04 .  I already have gcc 4.3 , so i still have to build GCC 4.x binutils from buildtools?
[06:34:52] <DraX> mmadia: ^^^ :)
[06:34:55] <MrSunshine> __goo__, well goth gcc2 and gcc4 if you want a hybrid build
[06:35:01] <MrSunshine> as they are cross compielers
[06:35:25] <__goo__> ok
[06:35:27] <mmadia> yes, because you need to build a crosscompiler to build Haiku.
[06:35:39] <mmadia> ... as MrSunshine already said :)
[06:35:58] <mmadia> __goo__  : www.haiku-os.org/guides should help too.
[06:36:05] <OmniMancer> DraX: last I checked people did not invent life only use it :P
[06:36:14] *** cryptic has joined #haiku
[06:36:19] <__goo__> mmadia, Yea, i am  going through them too
[06:36:36] <jmayfield_> Life (tm) the cereal, and Life (tm) the game, however.. heh
[06:36:52] <jmayfield_> life cereal is tastey, i must say...
[06:38:23] <mmadia> in Ubuntu & python 2.6.4, any ideas why gcc's configure fails when built with these commands?
[06:38:34] * mmadia paste bins instead
[06:39:23] *** bradsco has joined #haiku
[06:39:43] <mmadia> http://haiku.pastebin.com/PQ653Bub
[06:41:09] <mmadia> that computer does indeed have flex installed and can build the cross-tools when the command is run directly in the shell prompt.  but trying to run the command from within python will always fail on the lex/flex check.
[06:41:49] <CIA-50> scottmc * r35809 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/OptionalPackages: Updated nano to 2.2.3
[06:42:05] <DraX> mmadia: maybe path is getting smashed or some other enviornment thing flex needs?
[06:42:33] <mmadia> i'm not even sure how to check.   the code runs on FreeBSD.
[06:45:31] *** luroh1 has quit IRC
[06:45:46] <mmadia> doing an subprocess.call("echo $PATH", shell=True) is consistent with the shell.
[06:47:57] <DraX> does config.log say anything interesting?
[06:51:46] <mmadia> not that i can tell.
[06:51:46] *** panopticon has quit IRC
[06:52:57] *** panopticon has joined #haiku
[06:56:31] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[06:56:47] *** theophilecf has joined #haiku
[06:57:47] <helf|laptop> jmayfield, I adore Life cereal
[06:58:10] <jmayfield_> me too
[06:58:24] <jmayfield_> ..as cereals go anyway
[06:58:36] <helf|laptop> I adore cereal
[06:58:37] <helf|laptop> :p
[06:58:40] <jmayfield_> frosted mini-wheats are good too
[06:58:44] * helf|laptop adores most food, actually
[06:59:07] <jmayfield_> and ya know... grape-nuts.. love em
[06:59:14] <MrSunshine> DraX, ok found incosistency in using the be_ClassName for pointers :P
[06:59:23] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[06:59:37] <MrSunshine> but as im rewriting most of the c bindings etc atm for them to be extendable in D im going over that =)
[06:59:58] <helf|laptop> jmayfield, oh man.. grapenuts
[07:00:09] <helf|laptop> i gotta go buy some. havent had that in a few months.
[07:00:17] <helf|laptop> grapenuts + random fruit = yay
[07:00:41] <helf|laptop> I'm going to show my southerness with this one - grapenuts warmed up + sorgum
[07:00:43] <helf|laptop> omg
[07:00:50] <jmayfield_> and the cereal of cereals.. cracklin oat bran
[07:01:21] <helf|laptop> *sorghum
[07:01:27] <helf|laptop> oat bran!
[07:01:33] <helf|laptop> stop it, you are making my hungry
[07:01:35] <helf|laptop> and its midnight.
[07:02:02] <DraX> MrSunshine: how are you going to make them extendable
[07:02:03] <DraX> ?
[07:02:30] <helf|laptop> jmayfield, apparently sorghum isnt made much
[07:02:31] *** MrBIOS-hm has quit IRC
[07:02:35] <helf|laptop> less than 1 million gallons annually
[07:03:04] <OmniMancer> DraX: He insists there is something troublesome about it, I say he is probably trying to make the wrong thing do the wrong thing...
[07:03:08] *** MrBIOS-hm has joined #haiku
[07:03:16] <jmayfield_> helf|laptop, hehe.. we arent all southerners.. hehe
[07:03:23] <helf|laptop> thank god
[07:03:24] <helf|laptop> :p
[07:03:54] <jmayfield_> i like the occasional bowl-o-grits
[07:03:57] <MrSunshine> DraX, pure virtuals just calls into D thats it, virtual functions always call into D, but at the same time asks D if they have been called (if the class in D has been overridden and the function in question has been called) if it has, no further call is made and its returned, if it has not been overloaded in D it calls the standard C function of the class
[07:04:01] <jmayfield_> savory though.. not sweet
[07:04:11] <helf|laptop> sweet grits is just weird
[07:04:15] <helf|laptop> I love grits, tho
[07:04:55] <helf|laptop> you make bacon then make the scrambled eggs in the bacon grease, then make the grits, then mix it all togother, add toast with honey/sorghum and voila, awesomeness on a plate
[07:05:06] <DraX> MrSunshine: hmm, i think i need to see it in code form
[07:05:11] <helf|laptop> and it takes like 15 minutes
[07:05:59] <MrSunshine> so with this technique, even if BView::Draw is called from within BWindow::Update till will call "BViewBridge::Draw()" that calls "bind_BView_draw_virtual(bool *hasBeenCalled); so BViewBridge::Draw() { bool called = false; int ret = bind_BViewDraw(&called); if(called) return ret; return BView::Draw(); }
[07:06:24] <DraX> ahh
[07:06:28] <DraX> ok i can see that now
[07:06:32] <MrSunshine> and as BViewBridge is the only instances that will be thrown into HaikuAPI from within D it will always call and check with D first if it has been overloaded or not :)
[07:07:04] <MrSunshine> its quite simple realy =) figured out yesterday how to check in D if a function has been overloaded or not also =)
[07:07:18] <MrSunshine> just need to make a template function for that and check inside D
[07:07:33] <helf|laptop> gotta go. night jmayfield
[07:08:04] <jmayfield_> night
[07:08:23] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku
[07:09:01] <MrSunshine> DraX, quite a bit more code in the bindings but its the only way i can figure how to be able to extend HaikuAPI as much as i like inside of D =)
[07:09:07] <MrSunshine> and still have everything work
[07:09:18] <DraX> yeah you do really want to be able to properly subclass
[07:09:23] <DraX> and get the correct virtual behavior
[07:09:26] <DraX> in your subclasses
[07:09:26] <MrSunshine> yeap =)
[07:10:42] <OmniMancer> I think I need to know more about D and see the code but I still don't think you should need to know those things since cycles shouldn't happen
[07:11:26] <DraX> i don't think cycles are the big issue
[07:11:33] <DraX> the big issue is static vs dynamic dispatch in c++
[07:11:57] <DraX> only some functions are actually overrideable
[07:11:59] <MrSunshine> OmniMancer, but thing is that C++ cant call D directly
[07:12:10] <DraX> nor the other way around
[07:13:30] <MrSunshine> OmniMancer, but cycles, what do you mean by that ?
[07:13:33] <OmniMancer> well yes but then because of the API design and the workings of C++ only the virtual ones can actually be overidden anyway
[07:13:51] <MrSunshine> thats why i said that "virutal functions has to call and ask D if its overridden in D"
[07:13:56] <MrSunshine> pure calls D ALWAYS
[07:13:59] <OmniMancer> you were complaining that if it didn't know that it had been subclassed it would just get into a loop
[07:14:06] <MrSunshine> and final just calls the c implementation
[07:14:50] <OmniMancer> can't you just always call the D method and ensure that there is always a D method to call?
[07:15:55] *** CK|iPod_ has joined #haiku
[07:15:55] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC
[07:15:57] *** CK|iPod_ is now known as CK|iPod
[07:16:27] <MrSunshine> OmniMancer, no, as alot of functions when they are just virtual has their own implemenation under it
[07:16:51] <MrSunshine> so you might for a BMemoryIO need to just override Position, not both Position and Seek
[07:17:14] <MrSunshine> so Position will call DBMemoryIO::Position, but Seeek will call BMemoryIO::Seek
[07:17:26] <MrSunshine> as Seek has its own C++ implementation and does not need to be edited =)
[07:18:04] <MrSunshine> so do Position but in this case lets say i want to print out the position to the screen each time its called then call the C implementation
[07:18:44] *** Disreali has joined #haiku
[07:20:07] <OmniMancer> so make the class in D call the C++ one unless it is overidden
[07:20:47] <MrSunshine> so that would be DMyBMemoryIO : DBMemoryIO { off_t Position() { Stdout.formatln("Position: {}", fPosition); super.Position(); // call C implementation }
[07:21:01] <MrSunshine> OmniMancer, BUT the problem is the C++ side
[07:21:58] <MrSunshine> as for example BWindow::Update calls BView::Draw from within C, so it will call BViewBridge::Draw as thats whats apped to the BWindow, and that if not calle dinto D will just call BView::Draw
[07:22:14] *** Disreali_ has quit IRC
[07:22:31] <MrSunshine> but if passed into D it will call IF overridden in D DBView::Draw hence eneabling me to chang ethe behaiviour of the function inside D =)
[07:22:32] <OmniMancer> why can't that one just always call not D
[07:22:47] <MrSunshine> OmniMancer, cause BView::Draw is an empty hook function
[07:22:52] <MrSunshine> in C++
[07:22:52] *** Kokito has joined #haiku
[07:22:56] <OmniMancer> sigh
[07:23:10] <MrSunshine> OmniMancer, i say the same about you, i dont think you get it =)
[07:23:16] <OmniMancer> I think I am just thinking of something you refuse to see and I don't feel like explaining
[07:23:21] <saivert> you guys talking about Digital Mars' D language?
[07:23:42] <OmniMancer> I also don't know about D so I am just speaking from a rather generic binding context...
[07:24:06] <MrSunshine> saivert, aye
[07:24:46] <saivert> so is that used much now?
[07:25:00] <MrSunshine> OmniMancer, well this problem does not exist if you dont want to be able to extend the API inside another language, so if i dont wanted that i could just call the not D function and be done with it =)
[07:25:03] <MrSunshine> saivert, some
[07:25:08] <saivert> and is there a push to make it some kind of first class citizen on Haiku?
[07:25:09] <MrSunshine> less interest then a year ago tho :/
[07:25:28] <MrSunshine> saivert, i love the language, and i want to be able to program haiku in it =)
[07:25:43] <saivert> well. most of Haiku is C++
[07:25:45] <MrSunshine> so ive ported ldc + tango and started writing bindings for HaikuAPI for it :)
[07:25:51] <MrSunshine> saivert, and c++ sux!
[07:25:52] <MrSunshine> :)
[07:26:04] <OmniMancer> MrSunshine: I think that the problem can be eliminated without the knowledge you want by various means
[07:26:12] <OmniMancer> C++ >> D
[07:26:21] <saivert> unless most of Haiku was written in D I don't see D as more than "just another language" on Haiku OS
[07:26:36] <MrSunshine> saivert, it isnt more then just another language on Haiku OS :)
[07:26:48] * OmniMancer writes a kernel in a scripting language to annoy people.
[07:27:08] <MrSunshine> D isnt a scripting language, and there has been device drivers for linux written in D =)
[07:27:10] <saivert> haven't there been OS projects that centered around some new language before?
[07:27:21] <MrSunshine> saivert, dunno =)
[07:27:32] <saivert> I actually wrote a Winamp plugin in D once. just as a proof of concept
[07:27:50] <saivert> it was easy though as Winamp uses a C struct based plugin architecure. no C++ classes or anything
[07:27:57] <MrSunshine> i think D is very powerful =)
[07:27:59] <MrSunshine> saivert, aye
[07:28:10] <MrSunshine> www.dsource.org/projects/odinseye <- my pet project =)
[07:28:31] <saivert> Winamp basically calls a entry point function in the plugin DLL which then returns a struct with function pointers to handle different things as initialization, deinitialization, etc
[07:28:57] <saivert> C is simple enough to interface pretty fine with most other languages
[07:29:01] <MrSunshine> mm, and as you can make the functions directly callable from C it should be a breeze =)
[07:29:15] <MrSunshine> c++ is a pain in the butt tho :(
[07:29:54] <saivert> so did they figure out some standard widget api for D?
[07:30:02] <saivert> I read about DFL once
[07:30:14] <MrSunshine> saivert, dunno =)
[07:30:19] <OmniMancer> saivert: even C++ must work that way as you would need C++ linkage to the dll to use it the other way
[07:30:32] <MrSunshine> i just care about HaikuAPI will never ever write apps for linux or windows again =)
[07:30:40] <saivert> yes but C++ uses name mangling
[07:30:43] <saivert> to carry type information
[07:30:44] <OmniMancer> I think common lisp is very powerful
[07:31:18] <saivert> and unless you know how to parse the mangled names you can't directly interface with it. The real alternative is to use something like COM or CORBA
[07:31:27] <OmniMancer> saivert: yes this is the reason that any loadable plugins must use Cish methods of obtaining the relevent data
[07:31:42] <saivert> yes, extern "C"
[07:32:10] <saivert> don't know if Haiku has a COM equivalent
[07:32:14] <OmniMancer> saivert: or have some C linkage function that will return an array of factory funcs
[07:32:35] <OmniMancer> also C++ is a pain to interface with but it is still a nice language
[07:32:46] <OmniMancer> also clang may ease the pain of interfacing to C++
[07:33:13] *** Nozy has joined #haiku
[07:34:01] <saivert> well with COM you never call into the code directly. Instead you got interfaces as frontends
[07:34:14] <saivert> I know a lot of people dislike that as well for whatever reason
[07:34:49] <MrSunshine> D 2.0 can call C++ virtual functions using extern (c++) if im not mistaking =)
[07:34:52] <saivert> so I was asking if Haiku had something equivalent
[07:35:00] <MrSunshine> but for the functions that is non virtual, no go :/
[07:35:28] <saivert> and I assume you know what I mean with COM, otherwise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model
[07:35:52] <OmniMancer> yes I know
[07:36:17] <OmniMancer> people don't like it cause it looks ugly to have library based object things in code and it adds extra indirection to stuff
[07:36:42] <OmniMancer> MrSunshine: can't see how that would work reliably across all C++ compilers especially without knowing the structure of the C++ calss
[07:36:54] <saivert> yes but it's the only way to keep stuff language neutral
[07:37:14] <saivert> Delphi Pascal can call into a COM object implemented in C++ f.ex
[07:37:18] <saivert> and vice versa.
[07:37:38] *** Nozy has quit IRC
[07:38:48] <OmniMancer> yes
[07:39:13] <OmniMancer> however you could do pretty much the same by having everything implement stuff with a modified Obj-C runtime :P
[07:40:39] *** Nozy has joined #haiku
[07:44:23] <saivert> I guess D-Bus can be used on Haiku
[07:44:24] *** Nozy has quit IRC
[07:44:47] <OmniMancer> probably but don't let PathagenX hear you say that
[07:44:55] <DraX> or me
[07:44:59] <saivert> so he doesn't like the KDE port then?
[07:45:06] <saivert> KDE apps for Haiku
[07:45:11] <OmniMancer> nor D-Bus no X11
[07:45:11] <DraX> dbus is an abomination
[07:45:27] <saivert> so what does Haiku has on offer then?
[07:45:36] <OmniMancer> I would like to have a nice universal object and communication library
[07:45:46] <DraX> uhh, BMessages ?
[07:45:48] <OmniMancer> but that is not going to happen
[07:45:51] <saivert> every OS has to have some component object model. or variation on it
[07:45:53] <DraX> you can get any app from the roster and send messages to it
[07:45:57] <OmniMancer> yes BMessages are nice, but they are in C++
[07:45:59] <saivert> you can't live without COM!
[07:46:04] <DraX> there is Hey
[07:46:13] <OmniMancer> you can live without COM
[07:46:14] <DraX> which gives BMessage sending abilites from the command line
[07:46:19] <saivert> OmniMancer: no. it's ugly
[07:46:21] <OmniMancer> indeed
[07:46:33] <OmniMancer> BMessages are a lovely system
[07:46:39] <saivert> and they do the same job?
[07:47:28] <DraX> yes/no
[07:47:39] <DraX> they don't provide the full proxy/interface thing
[07:47:55] <DraX> but every app listens for them and other apps can send them
[07:48:12] <saivert> and because of that you can offer services in your app
[07:48:14] <OmniMancer> they let you talk to anything :D
[07:48:24] <OmniMancer> there is also the scripting API
[07:48:26] <DraX> like if you want to get notifications that an ethernet device has gone up or down
[07:48:33] <DraX> you just ask the net notification layer to send you BMessages about it
[07:48:39] <saivert> then a BMessage is broadcasted?
[07:48:46] <OmniMancer> that uses BMessages to give a type of interfaces thing I think
[07:48:49] <saivert> okay. a subscription deal
[07:49:15] <DraX> i guess you could write an app that enumerates the roster
[07:49:19] <DraX> and sends bmessages to all of them
[07:49:26] <DraX> but i'm not sure what effect that would have :D
[07:49:58] <OmniMancer> that would probably just slow things down and be an incredibly pointless thing to do
[07:50:14] <DraX> subscription model makes more sense
[07:52:19] <OmniMancer> indeed
[07:52:41] <OmniMancer> also the scripting API defines how an application may ask another about what services it provides.
[07:53:22] <PathagenX> asfd;laksnjhsda DBUS?!
[07:53:25] *** ecin_ has joined #haiku
[07:53:32] <PathagenX> Get out, penguin lover!
[07:53:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmadia
[07:53:58] *** e-jones has joined #haiku
[07:54:05] <DraX> dbus is like, how can we take something that is necessary and important for an OS and just make it utterly horrible and unuseable
[07:54:22] <DraX> architecture astronatics to the max
[07:54:33] <PathagenX> Let's all just make Haiku Linux and be done with it.
[07:54:52] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku
[07:55:00] <DraX> OmniMancer: why did you wake the beast?
[07:55:31] <mmadia> DraX : running configure <buildtools> inside a shell script directly within the shell works.   running  subprocess.call("./that-script.sh", shell=True) fails the same way on lex/flex.
[07:56:10] <DraX> mmadia: just for kicks can you try os.system() :D
[07:56:20] <mmadia> fails. :(
[07:56:23] <PathagenX> DONE! Ported GTK and Gnome to Haiku! Someone tell everyone on OSNews!
[07:56:25] <DraX> same result?
[07:56:30] *** ecin has quit IRC
[07:56:30] *** ecin_ is now known as ecin
[07:56:36] <PathagenX> Working on HALD and UDEV as we speak.
[08:04:12] <OmniMancer> DraX: because its fun to watch him rant, it also makes people not talk about those subjects in here much :P
[08:04:30] <saivert> well.. SkyOS gave up on writing drivers and contemplates switching to Linux or FreeBSD kernel for tons of free drivers
[08:04:43] <saivert> you only really need your own userland
[08:04:47] <saivert> you can steal someone elses kernel
[08:05:07] <saivert> ;)
[08:05:44] <Kokito> skyos is dead
[08:06:14] *** lorglas has joined #haiku
[08:06:15] <saivert> I'm waiting for the "SkyOS is open sourced" report
[08:06:23] <saivert> then watching nobody cares
[08:06:32] <Kokito> keep dreaming saivert :)
[08:06:41] <H_MrSun> looks like my calling only derived functions method works atleast =)
[08:06:49] <H_MrSun> its hell following the code but ... :P
[08:06:50] *** Andrius has joined #haiku
[08:07:01] <PathagenX> Don't you have a kernel to recompile?
[08:10:36] *** diogen has joined #haiku
[08:12:05] *** diogen has quit IRC
[08:18:44] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku
[08:19:59] <Advant> saivert: no point in open sourcing it really ;)
[08:20:07] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC
[08:21:44] *** Disreali has quit IRC
[08:22:19] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku
[08:23:45] *** theophilecf has quit IRC
[08:24:09] *** impy has quit IRC
[08:24:49] *** impy has joined #haiku
[08:33:11] *** marmida has left #haiku
[08:33:17] *** Kokito has quit IRC
[08:39:07] *** AlexFera has quit IRC
[08:39:49] *** The123king has joined #haiku
[08:41:45] <mmadia> any vbox users awake?  i can't remember if vbox can use Haiku's .vmdk files as-is or need a conversion utility to run.
[08:42:55] <largo> I'm awake... but don't think I have vbox installed at the moment.
[08:43:31] * largo downloads
[08:43:33] *** The123king has quit IRC
[08:44:39] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku
[08:45:14] <largo> downloading the latest nightly vmware file too.
[08:45:25] <largo> mmadia: I'll go ahead and install virtualbox and try it out.
[08:45:37] <largo> give me ~5 mins.
[08:46:04] <mmadia> thanks... haikuware doesn't seem to have a port ;)
[08:47:24] *** panopticon has quit IRC
[08:50:45] <largo> wow... thanks to leavengood I just realized that I've been pronouncing VESA wrong for like 20 years. :'(
[08:50:57] <jmayfield_> ?
[08:51:03] <jmayfield_> veesuh
[08:51:05] <jmayfield_> ?
[08:51:07] <saivert> way-sah?
[08:51:08] <largo> I've been saying it as "Veesah" for years.
[08:51:16] <largo> it's supposedly pronounced "Vaysa"
[08:51:17] <largo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA
[08:51:35] <saivert> well it all depends on where you come from language wise
[08:51:47] <largo> it's veesuh to me. ;)
[08:51:48] <jmayfield_> hehe.. is there really a "right" way? isnt it dependent on accent/mother tongue?
[08:52:06] <saivert> there is no correct or wrong way to pronounce a strict sequence of letters like that. it's not like it is a word or anything
[08:52:11] <saivert> it's an acronym
[08:52:16] <largo> ok, done listening to http://www.omnes.tv/devicedrivers/episode1/
[08:52:19] <largo> installing vbox.
[08:52:27] <linkslice> even words have different pronunciations
[08:52:29] <jmayfield_> vaybocks
[08:52:36] <linkslice> wash/warsh etc...
[08:52:43] <linkslice> who cares?
[08:52:46] <linkslice> :p
[08:52:46] <jmayfield_> wush
[08:52:53] <largo> brb... it's going to dump my net connections when I install.
[08:52:55] <linkslice> pellow
[08:53:02] <jmayfield_> puhsketti
[08:53:29] <linkslice> heh
[08:53:43] <jmayfield_> when i was a kid, i said helicopter as "hoppy topper"
[08:54:16] <jmayfield_> and motorcycle as "momo beeko"
[08:54:31] <jmayfield_> heh
[08:54:47] <linkslice> 96 users in channel, not bad
[08:54:52] *** largo1 has joined #haiku
[08:55:04] <largo1> back.
[08:55:24] <linkslice> well, momo beeko is kind of dumb  ;)
[08:55:31] *** largo has quit IRC
[08:55:34] *** largo1 is now known as largo
[08:55:55] <linkslice> my son when he was younger wrote down what he wanted me to pick up from taco bell, he wanted 1 "breedo"
[08:58:21] <H_MrSun> strange stuff going on
[08:58:28] <H_MrSun> like voodoo magic
[09:00:58] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[09:03:15] <largo> bah. :/
[09:03:20] <largo> I was just about to tell him it works. :/
[09:08:51] <H_MrSun> gaah why isnt my function called
[09:08:52] <H_MrSun> :P
[09:09:07] <H_MrSun> overloaded a function in a class but when i call it the overloaded function isnt called for some reason
[09:09:22] <largo> if mmadia comes back, tell him the latest nightly works in vbox just fine without any changes.
[09:09:30] *** cizra has left #haiku
[09:11:58] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC
[09:13:20] *** linkslice has quit IRC
[09:19:51] <H_MrSun> gaah where the HELL does the damn function call go
[09:20:21] <H_MrSun> not BDataIO::Write, not BPositionIO::Write .... but where, as BMallocIO derives from BPositionIO that derives from BDataIO, IT FREAKIN SHOULD END UP IN ONE OF THEM
[09:20:23] <H_MrSun> but nooo
[09:20:26] <H_MrSun> it just disapears
[09:20:29] <H_MrSun> no crash, nothing :)
[09:23:38] *** Ingenu has quit IRC
[09:24:04] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku
[09:24:33] *** cmecca has quit IRC
[09:25:58] *** cmecca has joined #haiku
[09:26:26] *** cmecca is now known as Guest50845
[09:30:30] <H_MrSun> found the god damn problem
[09:31:05] <H_MrSun> for this to work it all has to be inherited from eachother or i have to implement all sub functions that is inherited in in each class
[09:31:06] <H_MrSun> sigh
[09:36:27] <H_MrSun> i think i just raped and slaiughtered my brain :/
[09:39:11] *** waveshaper has quit IRC
[09:40:03] *** markos_ has joined #haiku
[09:44:29] <OmniMancer> you also used an extraneous i
[09:47:26] *** PathagenX has quit IRC
[09:48:47] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku
[09:54:51] *** [Katisu] has joined #haiku
[10:10:44] <H_MrSun> found one problem with my aproach here, if i do override say "Seek() { super.Seek(); }" so call the base class seek, it will become cyclic and call itself over and over due to the check i do if its overridden or not :/ but imo, if i call super.Seek the address of super.Seek should be put there insted of the one of derived class.seek and hence it shouldnt trigger an overridden :/
[10:11:37] *** cryptic has quit IRC
[10:12:13] <OmniMancer> H_MrSun: I think you are probably over complicating the issue
[10:13:14] <H_MrSun> OmniMancer, might be but until someone gives me hard proof of some other concept this is the one ive got, you havent provided much proof of yours :P
[10:14:32] <OmniMancer> well first provide me with Docs on D's external interface so I may understand the workings of D
[10:16:11] <H_MrSun> external interface?
[10:16:12] <H_MrSun> its C
[10:16:15] <H_MrSun> its C functions
[10:16:24] <H_MrSun> no external interface to C++ whatever
[10:16:29] <H_MrSun> jsut bind the damn functions to C
[10:16:34] <H_MrSun> just like you have to do with C++ -> D
[10:19:57] *** Ghostride has quit IRC
[10:20:19] <H_MrSun> well found a way around the cyclic behaviour atleast :)
[10:20:20] *** Ghostride has joined #haiku
[10:20:33] *** prOSy has quit IRC
[10:21:02] <OmniMancer> sigh
[10:21:06] <H_MrSun> check if the object is of supertype or if its the inherited type, if its of supertype, call the C function, if its of inherited type, check if the actual function has been inherited if it has, call it else call the C function :P
[10:21:13] <OmniMancer> I mean what does it look like from outside of D?
[10:21:30] <H_MrSun> OmniMancer, like garbage if you do not faltten it to C like you do with C++
[10:21:35] <OmniMancer> whether its C++ C common lisp BF forth scheme elisp or anything else
[10:22:03] <H_MrSun> its an object oriented language with name mangling
[10:22:08] <OmniMancer> so you have to create things that are callable from C from D to?
[10:22:19] <H_MrSun> yes
[10:22:29] <OmniMancer> so in other words it is no better than C++ as far as its interoperability goes
[10:22:48] <H_MrSun> OmniMancer, nop not as far as i can tell =)
[10:23:19] <OmniMancer> well for a language with a decent external interface such as falcon, or any embeddable language this would be easier
[10:31:42] *** Malmis has quit IRC
[10:36:22] *** vooshy has joined #haiku
[10:36:54] *** Malmis has joined #haiku
[10:44:47] <CIA-50> humdinger * r35810 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp: Added all translators (as far as they mailed me their consent) of the user guide to the translation section of AboutSystem. Removed the second newline after every language heading.
[10:48:30] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC
[11:05:01] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku
[11:09:58] *** VinDuv has quit IRC
[11:14:02] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku
[11:14:13] *** petterhj has joined #haiku
[11:21:32] *** Garfield32 has joined #haiku
[11:23:08] *** Garfield32 has left #haiku
[11:23:42] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku
[11:29:46] *** __goo__ has quit IRC
[11:35:51] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC
[11:42:26] *** VinDuv has quit IRC
[11:42:55] *** triplez has quit IRC
[11:43:20] <largo> what is the performance bottleneck for BSnow? the video layer? It doesn't appear to be the CPU.
[11:46:02] *** Kernel86_ is now known as Kernel86
[11:47:01] *** wildur has joined #haiku
[11:47:13] *** petterhj- has joined #haiku
[11:50:27] <OmniMancer> largo: probably the way it does the millions of snow flakes falling and accumulating on the winodws?
[12:01:33] *** Ola__ has joined #haiku
[12:01:47] <largo> OmniMancer: that doesn't really tell me anything. ;)
[12:02:18] <largo> when I run it it seems like my 8 cores just sort of flicker with only moderate use.
[12:02:21] *** Ola__ is now known as OlaHughson
[12:02:34] <largo> I would have thought they'd have all been pegged and the snow flakes would have been much smoother.
[12:02:42] <largo> but it really doesn't look any different at all. :(
[12:04:49] *** triplez has joined #haiku
[12:06:50] *** Mixer has quit IRC
[12:08:40] <OmniMancer> the thing probably does the flakes in one thread, as it would need to since its drawing to a single surface thing
[12:09:15] *** Ingenu_ has joined #haiku
[12:10:05] <OmniMancer> since it would do them in a single thread only one of your 8 cores is used
[12:10:27] <largo> :'(
[12:11:52] *** Ingenu has quit IRC
[12:11:54] *** Ingenu_ is now known as Ingenu
[12:11:55] <largo> it seems like some part of the calculation of where they would go could take better advantage of more cores.
[12:12:03] <OmniMancer> no point
[12:12:27] <largo> I'm totally in the dark... so I'm just making wild ignorant guesses here. :)
[12:12:40] <OmniMancer> it would be so much effort locking and unlocking the surface to do the calculation for each flake in a number of threads that it would probably end up faster on one thread :P
[12:12:49] <OmniMancer> look at the code
[12:13:00] <OmniMancer> also the demo is probably from beos days
[12:13:11] <largo> I'm sure it'll be over my head, but I'll have a look. I'm really curious.
[12:13:15] <OmniMancer> where it was not used to having screen sizes above 1024x786
[12:13:34] <largo> did you ever run it on Be
[12:13:35] <largo> ?
[12:13:56] <OmniMancer> no
[12:14:02] <OmniMancer> I am not from that time :P
[12:14:14] <OmniMancer> but I guess because its called BSnow and not HSnow
[12:15:04] <OmniMancer> http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/apps/bsnow
[12:17:30] <OmniMancer> the bottle neck is probably that it was a demo that was written once and never improved :P
[12:17:58] <OmniMancer> if you want it improved poke mmu_man he wrote it :P
[12:18:30] *** brobostigon has quit IRC
[12:19:07] *** bradct has quit IRC
[12:21:35] *** BGA has joined #haiku
[12:21:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o BGA
[12:21:51] <OmniMancer> oh wait
[12:21:58] <OmniMancer> does BSnow use the pulse?
[12:22:55] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku
[12:26:34] *** martinhpedersen_ has joined #haiku
[12:29:27] <largo> hrm?
[12:29:30] <largo> what do you mean?
[12:30:08] <largo> do you mean does it look like it's using more than 1 core?
[12:30:09] <largo> yes.
[12:35:04] *** HaikUbuntu has joined #haiku
[12:37:38] *** ecin_ has joined #haiku
[12:38:22] <OmniMancer> I mean does it use the feature of views that lets them have a "pulse" method called at some rate
[12:38:51] * largo looks up... watches that sail over his head... :D
[12:38:59] *** ecin has quit IRC
[12:38:59] *** ecin_ is now known as ecin
[12:39:00] <largo> I think you overestimate my understanding of this stuff. ;)
[12:39:04] <OmniMancer> the answer is it looks like it does
[12:39:44] <largo> is the pulse something like a specific set rate at which it does the calculations or something? or at which it writes to the screen?
[12:41:28] <JonathanThompson> Pulse()
[12:41:48] * JonathanThompson suggests largo look up BWindow::Pulse() in the Book
[12:41:56] * largo does that.
[12:42:18] <largo> I've been growing a list of Haiku links to reference to learn. :)
[12:42:29] <largo> http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/
[12:42:34] <largo> is that the one I want to refer to?
[12:42:47] <OmniMancer> pusle is a thing which lets it be called back at regular intervals
[12:43:00] <OmniMancer> yes
[12:43:29] <OmniMancer> well the bsnow source is a mess :P
[12:43:41] <OmniMancer> but it does calcs in one thread only
[12:44:15] <JonathanThompson> Oops, BView::Pulse().
[12:44:46] * JonathanThompson wonders why that's in a BView and not the BWindow as a BView doesn't always exist with an actual BWindow
[12:45:02] <largo> http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/BView_Overview.html
[12:45:03] * largo reads...
[12:45:39] <JonathanThompson> Then again, the original designers didn't exactly do a clean design for the C++ API to start with.
[12:45:58] <OmniMancer> JT because the views may be pulsed wherever they are :P
[12:46:11] <OmniMancer> not only in windows?
[12:46:22] <OmniMancer> for example replicants?
[12:46:39] <JonathanThompson> Apparently, though it makes no sense when views aren't attached to a visible window.
[12:47:03] <OmniMancer> sure it does!
[12:47:07] <JonathanThompson> When part of a replicant, they're still attached to an owning visible window.
[12:47:25] <OmniMancer> what if they need a regular signal to perform calculations and such?
[12:47:42] <JonathanThompson> There's other methods you can use ;)
[12:48:08] <VinDuv> There is BMessageRunner
[12:48:50] <JonathanThompson> BView: the Class that Ate Manhattan
[12:51:53] <OmniMancer> :P
[12:52:13] <OmniMancer> lets make an object system where everything is a BView :P
[12:52:39] * JonathanThompson slaps OmniMancer sillier than normal
[12:53:17] * OmniMancer suggests we BMessage instead then
[12:53:44] * JonathanThompson slaps OmniMancer sillier yet, a difficult feat indeed!
[12:56:08] *** kPb_in has joined #haiku
[12:57:33] * OmniMancer suggests we use BObject :P
[12:58:21] <largo> heh... funny thread names...
[12:58:32] * largo catches a peek when looking at 'top'...
[12:58:55] <largo> this is aggravating... BSnow is not correctly killed when I restart... so it's running as soon as I come back. :(
[12:59:03] <largo> with no BSnow process.
[12:59:39] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku
[12:59:55] <OmniMancer> you are Neo? I am the Snow maker!
[13:00:06] <OmniMancer> um
[13:00:13] <OmniMancer> largo it is a replicant
[13:00:24] <OmniMancer> they are MEANT to not disappear across restarts
[13:00:26] <largo> how do I kill it?
[13:00:36] <OmniMancer> open home
[13:00:38] <OmniMancer> config
[13:00:44] <OmniMancer> Tracker (I think)
[13:00:57] <OmniMancer> then find the trackerShelf file (something like that)
[13:00:59] <OmniMancer> delete it
[13:01:03] <OmniMancer> and restart tracker
[13:02:03] <OmniMancer> I can't remember exactly where the file is
[13:02:08] <OmniMancer> but go loking for it
[13:02:24] <OmniMancer> and in future always remove the thing before restarting
[13:02:25] <largo> close enough.
[13:02:31] <largo> home config settings Tracker tracker_shelf
[13:02:52] <largo> all fixed. :D thanks.
[13:02:58] <OmniMancer> alternatively try starting BSnow again and seeing if it offers to remove it
[13:03:20] <largo> that worked the first time... then everything was kind of wonky when I did it again and that didn't work. ;)
[13:03:34] <largo> and then it was doing things like I couldn't close the little BSnow window etc.
[13:03:49] <largo> couldn't get to my desktop... (no right click menu, couldn't open the file system etc)
[13:03:55] <largo> so I did it through the terminal instead.
[13:04:32] <OmniMancer> :P
[13:04:51] <OmniMancer> well doing what I just told you will always fix the problem
[13:05:08] <OmniMancer> however it will also remove any other replicants on the desktop
[13:05:19] <OmniMancer> we really need a proper shelf editor :P
[13:05:24] <largo> hehe :D
[13:09:38] <largo> nice new icons by the way :)
[13:09:46] <largo> the new pointer looks smooth.
[13:09:57] <largo> (new cursors I mean)
[13:12:21] <OmniMancer> :P
[13:13:33] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/haiku/newpointer.png
[13:14:07] *** Advant has quit IRC
[13:14:15] <largo> I haven't look at the rest yet. just noticed that one.
[13:14:19] <DDevine> new one is better
[13:14:24] <martinhpedersen_> Agreed
[13:15:59] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku
[13:18:13] <OmniMancer> new >> old :D
[13:19:00] <largo> I concur. :D
[13:21:31] <martinhpedersen_> Is the new cursor in the latest nightly?
[13:22:15] <largo> yes.
[13:22:37] <martinhpedersen_> :)
[13:24:15] <martinhpedersen_> Oh, and one more thing! Can I just install over the old one? Or do I loose everything in the home folder then?
[13:24:44] <martinhpedersen_> Or some other bad things?;p
[13:25:11] *** largoh has joined #haiku
[13:25:24] *** sprma has joined #haiku
[13:27:21] <OmniMancer> you can install over old one
[13:27:29] <OmniMancer> home folder is untouched
[13:27:40] <martinhpedersen_> Nice, thanks :)
[13:28:02] <OmniMancer> be prepared for duplicated Desktop applets folder in deskbar menu since they changed the capitalisation
[13:28:26] *** Guest50845 is now known as cmecca
[13:28:32] *** cmecca has joined #haiku
[13:28:59] *** vooshy has quit IRC
[13:29:52] <martinhpedersen_> Ok, that's not the worst thing :) Download complete, brb;)
[13:30:03] *** martinhpedersen_ has quit IRC
[13:31:26] *** HaikUbuntu has quit IRC
[13:34:11] *** cmecca has quit IRC
[13:34:11] *** VinDuv has quit IRC
[13:34:12] <OmniMancer> night
[13:34:28] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku
[13:34:59] <largo> night :)
[13:35:30] *** drcouzelis has joined #haiku
[13:35:43] *** mmlr_work has joined #haiku
[13:37:53] *** Advant has joined #haiku
[13:39:02] *** martinhpedersen has joined #haiku
[13:39:42] <martinhpedersen> Well, that went smooth;)
[13:39:53] <OmniMancer> yay
[13:40:22] * OmniMancer wonders if anyone ever wrote a kernel in lambda calculus
[13:41:13] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC
[13:41:51] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[13:43:20] <largo> mmadia: you left before I could answer your question last night. ;)
[13:43:36] <largo> the answer being that the nightly vmware images run perfectly fine in virtualbox.
[13:43:45] <largo> I have both the gcc2hybrid and gcc4hybrid running.
[13:43:45] <mmadia> awesome.
[13:44:04] <kPb_in> hello all.. i m trying to reset my password at haiko-os.org .. it says m not allowed to reset my password.. wats da problem?
[13:45:57] <mmadia> what's your username?
[13:46:08] <kPb_in> mmadia, kunalbharati at gmail dot com
[13:48:50] <largoh> hrm... I think I'll fiddle with the resolution on here... brb...
[13:48:52] *** largoh has quit IRC
[13:50:43] <mmadia> kPb_in : i sent you an email.
[13:51:36] *** rennj has quit IRC
[13:53:00] <kPb_in> mmadia, hey thanx.. worked :)
[13:56:15] <kPb_in> i have downloaded programming the beos operating system book.. does this book still apply for haiku?
[13:56:38] <mmadia> for the most part, yes.
[13:59:48] <kPb_in> mmadia, ok.. i dont wanna go into source code modifying it.. just wanted to learn to write applications in it..
[14:02:13] <DDevine> kPb_in: Keep an eye on programming tutorials that are being posted on haiku-os.org
[14:02:40] *** hm_b has joined #haiku
[14:02:40] *** ecin has quit IRC
[14:02:50] *** ecin has joined #haiku
[14:02:59] <kPb_in> DDevine, o ya.. rite now its introduction to c++ rite?
[14:03:57] <DDevine> kPb_in: The first few are intro to C++ but the rest (probably the next one) will be about programming in Haiku.
[14:04:25] <DDevine> The sample applications in Haiku are pretty good examples though.
[14:04:47] <kPb_in> DDevine, ohk.. where can i find sample apps?
[14:05:28] <DDevine> In the Haiku source.
[14:06:48] <kPb_in> DDevine, ok..
[14:07:17] <kPb_in> DDevine, u r writing those tutorials?
[14:07:49] <DDevine> na,
[14:07:55] *** kitallis has joined #haiku
[14:08:12] <DDevine> The examples I was talking about you can find here: http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/apps
[14:10:01] <largo> is there a way to set a higher desktop resolution under virtualbox?
[14:10:06] <largo> or am I stuck at 1024x768?
[14:10:49] <DDevine> You shouldn't be stuck... but maybe that has something to do with the VESA driver.
[14:11:45] <kPb_in> DDevine, thanx :)
[14:11:46] <largo> even if I use the safe mode menu to specify 1600x1200@32bpp, it only changes for the boot screen...
[14:11:53] <largo> then drops back to 1024x768 for the actual desktop. :'(
[14:11:56] <Auronandace> i think you can set it in preferences, within haiku itself (not virtualbox)
[14:13:23] <largo> duh... I feel like an idiot. :P
[14:13:28] <largo> found it under Screen.
[14:13:33] *** cxvii has joined #haiku
[14:13:43] <largo> I'd looked through the preferences menu and didn't spot something that looked like it would control that...
[14:13:50] <DDevine> I assumed you were doing it in Haiku.
[14:13:51] <largo> (display, desktop, etc...)
[14:13:55] <largo> yeah.
[14:14:28] <largo> my mistake. sorry :(
[14:18:33] *** Syn- has left #haiku
[14:28:04] *** Mixer has joined #haiku
[14:29:55] <drcouzelis> @kPb_in: I just started doing application development in Haiku. I started by reading that book you mentioned. I loved the first chapter, and then just started using the old BeBook to learn and use the API.
[14:30:38] <drcouzelis> To learn the Haiku API, the only references are the header files and the old BeBook, right?
[14:31:30] <H_MrSun> kinda
[14:31:53] *** Ingenu has quit IRC
[14:32:10] <kPb_in> drcouzelis, nice :) i just wanted to know weather it still works for haiku
[14:32:27] *** Barrett_ has joined #haiku
[14:33:46] <DDevine> TigerDirect seems to be having some trouble with numbers.
[14:33:54] <DDevine> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5688375&Sku=H50-700U%20CA
[14:34:00] <DDevine> Oops wrong channel
[14:36:33] <kPb_in> drcouzelis, can i ur code from somewhere?? i will try to learn from it
[14:38:29] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku
[14:41:07] <drcouzelis> Sure, I'm very "open source". :D
[14:41:22] <drcouzelis> I decided to make a Tetris game first, just to get used to the API.
[14:41:54] <drcouzelis> I am "looking" at this code, for example when I get confused reading that book:
[14:42:21] <drcouzelis> http://www.haikuware.com/remository/view-details/games/classics/tetris
[14:42:36] <drcouzelis> (the download includes the source code)
[14:43:08] <JonathanThompson> drcouzelis: do a Tetris game in 5 dimensions to keep your mind limber ;)
[14:43:20] <drcouzelis> Too limber! :O
[14:43:28] <drcouzelis> That hurts just to think about.
[14:43:47] * JonathanThompson knows how to cause brain-pain
[14:44:15] <surrounder> hehe
[14:44:24] <drcouzelis> ...as for my new code, I've written some but haven't compiled and tested it yet. I'm just finishing up building my own gcc4-hybrid and optional packages CD.
[14:44:28] * JonathanThompson notes surrounder isn't denying that
[14:44:55] <surrounder> awww, it isn't that bad!
[14:44:57] <surrounder> just a little.... :P
[14:44:59] *** flameshadow has quit IRC
[14:45:29] <JonathanThompson> I don't suppose I told you I created a boardgame that's deeper than Go right before Christmas, did I, surrounder ? :D
[14:45:54] <surrounder> :|
[14:45:55] <surrounder> nope :P
[14:46:05] <JonathanThompson> Now I have :p
[14:48:08] <surrounder> hmm never played Go either
[14:49:19] <JonathanThompson> Also last year I created a solitaire card game a 3 year-old that can count and understand different suits can play, but a perfect card counter can't win even 50% of the time :p
[14:49:47] <JonathanThompson> And, it's always guaranteed at the start of the game that it's possible to win.
[14:49:56] <surrounder> hah
[14:49:56] <kPb_in> wats exactly are kits?? i see application kits, interface kit etc.. servers over microkernel?
[14:50:01] <JonathanThompson> (There are never card deals that can result in no progress)
[14:50:12] <surrounder> now that's quite impressive JonathanThompson
[14:50:22] <JonathanThompson> Think of them as related APIs for a task, kPb_in
[14:50:40] <JonathanThompson> surrounder: total rules including scoring fits in 82 words ;)
[14:51:18] <JonathanThompson> I've named that game "Inconceivable Solitaire"
[14:52:36] <JonathanThompson> Note that "There are never card deals that can result in no progress" as in before you make a mistake.
[14:52:59] <JonathanThompson> Most of the time, no matter how well you think things through, you'll make a wrong choice :p
[14:53:27] <kPb_in> JonathanThompson, ok
[14:53:58] <JonathanThompson> In some cases, kPb_in, they're in separate user space servers, but not all cases.
[14:54:20] <drcouzelis> So far I have been using code from the Application Kit ("BApplication class") and the Interface Kit. ("BWindow", "BMenuBar"...)
[14:54:31] <drcouzelis> ...for example.
[14:54:49] <JonathanThompson> Both of those are dealing with the App_Server.
[14:56:07] <kPb_in> JonathanThompson, ok
[14:56:32] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku
[14:57:11] *** VinDuv_ has joined #haiku
[15:00:06] *** VinDuv has quit IRC
[15:00:20] *** vooshy has joined #haiku
[15:01:12] *** panopticon has joined #haiku
[15:06:53] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku
[15:07:11] *** McBersas2 has joined #haiku
[15:07:58] *** drcouzelis has quit IRC
[15:14:17] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku
[15:14:30] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku
[15:15:12] <kitallis> BasicCommandLineTools only downloads sed? :S
[15:17:28] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku
[15:17:40] <CIA-50> humdinger * r35811 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/installer/InstallerApp.cpp: The bold title in Installer's about window encompassed a few letters of the regular text. Fixes #5555. Thanks diver.
[15:19:52] *** ZeroXp has joined #haiku
[15:23:27] *** stargater has joined #haiku
[15:23:35] <stargater> hi
[15:24:16] <ZeroXp> hi
[15:32:08] *** rennj has joined #haiku
[15:33:24] *** cxvii has quit IRC
[15:35:26] *** kPb_in has quit IRC
[15:43:36] *** bradsco has quit IRC
[15:43:37] *** McBersas2 has quit IRC
[15:46:19] *** flameshadow has joined #haiku
[15:49:40] *** cenan321 has joined #haiku
[15:49:47] *** oZ] has joined #haiku
[15:49:56] *** petterhj has quit IRC
[15:51:24] *** VinDuv_ has quit IRC
[15:51:41] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku
[15:52:43] *** martinhpedersen has quit IRC
[15:53:03] *** stargater has quit IRC
[15:53:21] *** cenan321 has left #haiku
[15:54:46] *** DDevine has quit IRC
[15:57:28] *** largo has quit IRC
[16:02:13] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku
[16:03:33] *** ereslibre has quit IRC
[16:03:50] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku
[16:04:00] *** waveshaper has quit IRC
[16:10:01] *** e-jones has quit IRC
[16:11:23] *** Kroki has joined #haiku
[16:16:24] *** aldeck has joined #haiku
[16:16:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck
[16:17:36] *** jan__64 has joined #haiku
[16:19:20] *** oZ] has quit IRC
[16:26:10] *** Disreali_away has joined #haiku
[16:29:03] *** Disreali_ has quit IRC
[16:29:05] *** largo has joined #haiku
[16:32:55] <kitallis> can anyone help me sort out these errors compiling llvm http://pastie.org/private/jtacxca5df6srrbvxwkkq
[16:34:03] *** sprma has quit IRC
[16:40:02] *** sprma has joined #haiku
[16:45:11] *** kitallis has quit IRC
[16:47:21] *** nova_ has joined #haiku
[16:48:45] *** Malmis has quit IRC
[16:49:01] *** oZ] has joined #haiku
[16:49:39] *** lorglas has left #haiku
[16:53:34] *** Malmis has joined #haiku
[17:00:18] *** oZ] has quit IRC
[17:01:11] *** oZ] has joined #haiku
[17:02:11] *** Nies has joined #haiku
[17:03:43] *** jan__64 has quit IRC
[17:04:34] *** cxvii has joined #haiku
[17:11:33] *** Kroki has quit IRC
[17:16:20] *** ereslibre has quit IRC
[17:20:06] *** ereslibre has joined #haiku
[17:22:05] *** Geoz has joined #haiku
[17:22:28] *** nova_ has quit IRC
[17:24:45] *** ZeroXp has quit IRC
[17:25:51] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku
[17:27:49] <largo> eek...
[17:28:11] <largo> using the compiled vmware mouse driver from http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/4630 pukes Haiku hard. :/ but only in SMP mode.
[17:28:25] <largo> if I disable SMP it runs just fine. :/
[17:28:41] <largo> should I try grabbing http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/input_server/filters/vmware_mouse and building that myself?
[17:30:40] *** VinDuv has quit IRC
[17:31:48] *** dakdagi has joined #haiku
[17:31:54] *** The123king has joined #haiku
[17:34:37] *** willll has joined #haiku
[17:37:08] *** oZ] has quit IRC
[17:44:43] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku
[17:47:49] <mmlr_work> largo: what's the problem?
[17:48:11] *** The123king has quit IRC
[17:51:54] <largo> mmlr_work: with what? the mouse driver?
[17:52:12] <mmlr_work> yup
[17:52:51] <largo> if I have SMP enabled it crashes the system. (using the one I downloaded from the trac link.)
[17:53:00] <largo> so I'm wondering if I should try recompiling it myself. :)
[17:53:20] <largo> if that makes a difference...
[17:54:16] <largo> with SMP disabled it works quite nicely :D
[17:54:41] <mmlr_work> in what way does it crash?
[17:55:17] <largo> KDL with a backtrace relating to SMP stuff from the look of it... let me get a screenshot of it.
[17:55:43] *** tqh has joined #haiku
[17:58:05] *** dakdagi has quit IRC
[17:58:08] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC
[18:00:08] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku
[18:01:31] *** Barrett_ has quit IRC
[18:03:49] <largo> I think it just wanted to make a liar of me. now it's not doing it... but the mouse also is back to being crappy regardless of whether I have that in or not.
[18:04:16] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku
[18:05:56] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35812 /haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/loader/ (pager.cpp pager.h): A simple pager implemented on top of the generic text console interface.
[18:06:29] <mmlr_work> maybe it doesn't get loaded
[18:06:43] <mmlr_work> note that the one attached to the ticket is a gcc2 build
[18:06:50] <mmlr_work> if you're running a gcc4 based system it won't work
[18:07:01] *** mmlr_work has left #haiku
[18:07:14] *** mmlr_work has joined #haiku
[18:07:24] <mmlr_work> gotta go now though, so see ya later
[18:07:28] *** mmlr_work has quit IRC
[18:08:13] *** noldsel has quit IRC
[18:08:23] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku
[18:08:45] *** oZ] has joined #haiku
[18:09:23] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35813 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
[18:09:24] <CIA-50> * Added create_ring_buffer_etc() which allows to re-create a ring buffer from
[18:09:24] <CIA-50> a given flat buffer.
[18:09:24] <CIA-50> * Added ring_buffer_peek() for random position reading from the ring buffer
[18:09:24] <CIA-50> without changing its state.
[18:09:57] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35814 /haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/platform/generic/text_menu.cpp: Updated boot loader copyright year.
[18:11:13] *** noldsel has joined #haiku
[18:18:57] <largo> that was probably the problem. I was testing it on a gcc4hybrid build.
[18:18:58] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku
[18:18:59] *** Ghostride has quit IRC
[18:19:07] <largo> building my own copy now (after pulling down the sources from svn)
[18:19:33] *** Bushmills has quit IRC
[18:19:52] *** panopticon has quit IRC
[18:20:24] *** Garfield32 has joined #haiku
[18:21:52] *** Garfield32 has left #haiku
[18:22:17] *** kitallis has joined #haiku
[18:23:40] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku
[18:25:33] *** Bushmills has joined #haiku
[18:26:16] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku
[18:26:20] *** martinhpedersen has joined #haiku
[18:28:11] <martinhpedersen> Ok, so I'm trying to get haiku running native on my macbook pro... It detects the wlan (AR5008), but can't seem to find any access points? Running r35808 (latest)
[18:28:31] <martinhpedersen> And, I have disabled security btw
[18:28:38] <martinhpedersen> Any thoughts?;)
[18:29:27] *** PasNox has joined #haiku
[18:29:52] <largo> martinhpedersen: does syslog say anything about what it's doing?
[18:30:38] *** Ghostride has joined #haiku
[18:30:42] <martinhpedersen> mhm, 2sec :)'
[18:31:56] <martinhpedersen> KERN: [net/atheroswifi/0] scan_task: chan   6g ->  11g [active, dwell min 20ms max 0ms]... guess that's the scanning?
[18:32:00] <martinhpedersen> and...
[18:32:13] <martinhpedersen> KERN: [net/atheroswifi/0] ieee80211_ref_node (ieee80211_send_probereq:1644) 0xcd7c8480<00:1e:52:70:00:41> refcnt 3
[18:32:31] <martinhpedersen> KERN: More than 99% interrupts of vector 11 are unhandled
[18:33:10] <martinhpedersen> It uses all the CPU power when it's scanning, intervals of 1 sec or so
[18:33:48] <largo> is your access point g only?
[18:33:58] <largo> odd side question.
[18:34:11] <martinhpedersen> nope, it's mixed right now... can that be it?:)
[18:34:39] <largo> my card gets detected as ar5008... but I have different issues with mine.
[18:34:53] <martinhpedersen> Hmm...
[18:34:55] <largo> (ar5416 I believe is the actual chipset in mine)
[18:35:30] <largo> device Network controller [2|80|0]
[18:35:30] <largo>   vendor 168c: Atheros Communications Inc.
[18:35:30] <largo>   device 0023: AR5008 Wireless Network Adapter
[18:36:01] <martinhpedersen> Is that a MacBook Pro? I'm pretty sure it acually is AR5008 in mine... but haven't checked:P
[18:36:16] <largo> mine connects, but then keeps switching media or something when I try to do anything... if it doesn't completely lock up the system (when SMP is enabled)
[18:36:27] <largo> no, mine's a PCI card from D-Link. :)
[18:36:47] <largo> same driver... different behavior.
[18:36:57] <martinhpedersen> ahh, ok;p Odd:p
[18:37:47] <martinhpedersen> When does it switch media? Do you get an IP?
[18:38:49] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35815 /haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/platform/bios_ia32/ (mmu.cpp mmu.h):
[18:38:49] <CIA-50> Added mmu_allocate_physical(), which allocates a specified physical memory
[18:38:49] <CIA-50> range.
[18:38:57] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku
[18:39:13] <largo> martinhpedersen: yeah, I get an IP (sometimes after a number of DHCP attempts)
[18:39:36] *** Xbertl has quit IRC
[18:39:36] <largo> it doesn't generally switch until after I've started doing something on the net... like connected to IRC, or started downloading a webpage or something.
[18:39:43] *** The123king has joined #haiku
[18:39:45] <largo> then it switches media and drops the connection.
[18:40:03] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku
[18:40:22] <martinhpedersen> Hehe, seems like we're both stuck then:p
[18:40:36] <martinhpedersen> Switching to pure G didn't help
[18:40:54] <largo> :(
[18:40:59] <largo> is that a dual core system?
[18:41:17] <martinhpedersen> jepp
[18:41:21] <largo> might sound odd, but give it a whirl with SMP disabled.
[18:41:52] <largo> that avoids hard system locks on my system with that driver. :P you never know... it might do something for you too. :P haha
[18:42:47] *** luroh has joined #haiku
[18:43:11] <martinhpedersen> Hehe, might work:) I'll give it a try;p But... is there any way to disable it within haiku itself? I don't have keyboard in the boot process;p
[18:43:25] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35816 /haiku/trunk/ (12 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[18:43:25] <CIA-50> kernel:
[18:43:25] <CIA-50> * The kernel syslog ring buffer is no longer emptied by the syslog sender
[18:43:25] <CIA-50> thread. Instead we only drop the oldest data from the buffer when we're
[18:43:25] <CIA-50> writing to it and there's not enough free space in it.
[18:43:26] <CIA-50> Advantages: We drop old data rather than the most recent data when the buffer
[18:43:26] <CIA-50> is full. The "syslog" KDL command has more data available now. So the odds
[18:43:40] *** VinDuv has quit IRC
[18:44:37] <largo> martinhpedersen: yeah...
[18:44:54] <largo> config settings  whatever... kernel :P
[18:45:21] *** Disreali2 has joined #haiku
[18:45:31] <martinhpedersen> hehe, so there is a config file somewhere then?;)
[18:46:15] *** Kokito has joined #haiku
[18:46:29] <martinhpedersen> Hi, Kokito :)
[18:46:33] <largo> home -> config -> settings -> kernel -> drivers -> kernel
[18:46:44] <largo> you edit that file... the top line
[18:46:50] <largo> uncomment that and it should disable SMP
[18:47:12] <martinhpedersen> Great, thanks :)
[18:47:17] <Kokito> hello martinhpedersen :)
[18:47:23] <martinhpedersen> Brb then, rebooting :)
[18:47:24] <Disreali2> did /boot/var get moved?
[18:47:28] <largo> k
[18:47:30] * martinhpedersen is idle: reboot
[18:50:07] *** The123king has quit IRC
[18:54:09] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku
[18:56:12] *** hm_b has quit IRC
[18:56:29] *** Disreali2 has quit IRC
[18:57:56] *** Disreali_away has quit IRC
[19:04:22] *** kitallis has quit IRC
[19:04:38] *** kitallis has joined #haiku
[19:09:35] *** sprma has quit IRC
[19:10:52] *** sprma has joined #haiku
[19:11:07] *** tqh has quit IRC
[19:12:30] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35817 /haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/platform/bios_ia32/debug.cpp:
[19:12:30] <CIA-50> Changed the location for the debug syslog buffer from 16 MB to 63 MB. On my
[19:12:30] <CIA-50> machine the previous location was overwritten, probably by GRUB.
[19:13:56] <martinhpedersen> Disabling SMP gave me a cursor, and a blue background... but nothing else;)
[19:14:24] <largo> :( that shouldn't happen.
[19:14:34] <largo> I disable SMP all the time without any trouble.
[19:15:13] <largo> there's definitely something wonky going on. ;)
[19:15:40] <martinhpedersen> Hehe, year definitely;)
[19:15:45] <Lelldorin1> hi all
[19:16:28] *** Mixer has quit IRC
[19:16:49] <largo> martinhpedersen: and multiple boot attempts didn't get any further?
[19:17:31] <martinhpedersen> Well, I tried two times... maybe I should give it some more time though...:p
[19:18:04] <largo> I just KDL'ed my Haiku. :'(
[19:18:37] <largo> I was going to suggest moving the atheroswifi driver to your desktop temporarily and trying the disabled SMP boot again.
[19:18:46] <largo> see if it works with that driver disabled.
[19:20:23] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC
[19:20:57] *** ahaaha has joined #haiku
[19:21:00] <martinhpedersen> KDL is never a good place to end up;p Yeah, I'll try that:) But, where do I find the drivers?:p
[19:23:20] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/haiku/handles.png
[19:23:29] <largo> martinhpedersen: just a sec... let me look.
[19:23:49] *** luroh1 has joined #haiku
[19:24:29] <largo> system -> add-ons -> drivers -> kernel -> bin
[19:24:31] <largo> I think it was...
[19:24:43] <largo> move that "atheroswifi" bin to your desktop or something
[19:24:44] *** luroh has quit IRC
[19:25:19] *** The123king has joined #haiku
[19:25:25] <martinhpedersen> nice, really appreciate it largo :)
[19:25:55] <largo> system -> add-ons -> kernel -> drivers -> bin
[19:26:01] <largo> sorry, got the order switched around. :P
[19:26:18] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku
[19:26:46] <martinhpedersen> Hehe, yeah I found it:)
[19:27:01] <largo> well I'm curious about that interrupts message as well.. but that's out of my league.
[19:27:12] <largo> one of the devs or someone like that would have to answer that.
[19:27:38] <martinhpedersen> I guess;p
[19:28:01] *** Mixer has joined #haiku
[19:28:39] <largo> anyhoo.. the image I posted was my kernel panic... each time I try to download the haiku source from svn it runs for a few minutes and then slows the system down to a crawl where it's essentially frozen... this time it crashed it.
[19:28:40] <largo> :(
[19:28:55] <largo> am I running out of file handles or buffer or something? :(
[19:32:07] *** PasNox has quit IRC
[19:32:47] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC
[19:33:05] *** martinhpedersen_ has joined #haiku
[19:33:12] *** PasNox has joined #haiku
[19:33:54] <martinhpedersen_> hehe, KDL the second I moved the driver... and the same blue screen with cursor again...
[19:34:45] <largo> ah... I forgot.. when I moved the driver, I used a livecd boot, mounted the haiku drive, moved it, and then booted the computer again. :/
[19:34:59] <largo> probably didn't like moving a driver that was in use. :P
[19:35:28] <martinhpedersen_> Hehe, no... I should have thought of that myself though;p
[19:36:33] <largo> I think that's enough for me for today... with that KDL I'm getting I can't download the source... and thus can't mess with the vmware mouse driver I wanted to mess with... so I guess it's bedtime for me.
[19:36:56] <martinhpedersen_> hehe, ok then:) Good night!
[19:36:59] <largo> martinhpedersen_: good luck with your troubleshooting. :)
[19:37:07] <martinhpedersen_> Thanks =)
[19:43:07] *** ereslibre has quit IRC
[19:47:50] *** Ingenu has quit IRC
[19:48:47] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC
[19:49:48] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC
[19:51:20] *** Barrett_ has joined #haiku
[19:51:34] *** luroh1 has quit IRC
[19:51:46] *** luroh has joined #haiku
[19:53:43] *** kitallis has quit IRC
[19:55:48] *** Disreali has joined #haiku
[19:56:07] *** tic has joined #haiku
[19:56:24] <Disreali> wow! vmplayer took dowm vista
[20:07:28] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku
[20:12:23] *** kirilla has joined #haiku
[20:19:32] *** martinhpedersen_ has quit IRC
[20:20:35] *** peerkoel has quit IRC
[20:21:07] <Disreali> does the transmission-daemon build on haiku?
[20:21:41] *** Barrett_ has quit IRC
[20:21:56] <mmadia> yes, HaikuPort's has a bep file for 1.7x that can be used as a guide.  it might be worth looking at the changeset for that revision too.
[20:23:38] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC
[20:24:22] *** Begasus has joined #haiku
[20:24:35] <DraX> dear aboutsystem.cpp commit, i don't care, love, alex
[20:24:36] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku
[20:24:51] <Begasus> evening peeps
[20:25:02] <Disreali> was it the tranmision or handbrake devs that are anti haiku?
[20:25:22] <DraX> handbrake was originally a beos app wasn't it?
[20:25:30] <Disreali> afternoon Begasus
[20:25:40] <Disreali> DraX, yes
[20:25:47] <Begasus> aloha Disreali
[20:25:58] <Begasus> long time no see ... how's it been?
[20:26:05] <DraX> which would lead me to believe that the handbrake devs are the anti-haiku ones ;)
[20:26:10] <mmadia> Disreali : originally Eric Petit made both of them
[20:26:20] <Disreali> original dev is not part of the handbrake team anymore
[20:26:33] <Disreali> last i heard
[20:26:35] <mmadia> though when i was trying to port 1.42 some of their other devs weren't to friendly towards Haiku.
[20:26:52] <helf> mmadia, hey, need something?
[20:27:01] *** peerkoel has joined #haiku
[20:27:03] <DraX> ohh, transmission has a nice rpc protocol
[20:27:13] <DraX> would be easy to do a beapi client for it
[20:27:20] <DraX> http://trac.transmissionbt.com/browser/branches/1.7x/doc/rpc-spec.txt
[20:27:27] <Begasus> mmadia, ! ;)
[20:27:29] <mmadia> helf : sorta... i was wondering if you knew any reliable ways to test a PSU on the fritz.
[20:27:33] <mmadia> Begasus ! :)
[20:28:18] <mmadia> and since my 1.42 attempts, eric did a proper port of 1.6x and last i heard 1.8 even builds out of the box  --- once the deps are installed.
[20:29:11] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC
[20:29:22] <Advant> Anyone suggest a linux distro that will make getting started dev pretty easy, i.e. not dealing with selinux, up to date packages, but will compile where needed?
[20:29:31] <DraX> my old thinkpad is actually still under warrenty, so i may be able to get the fan and battery-connector issues fixed for free :)
[20:29:47] <Begasus> as in compile Haiku Advant ?
[20:29:55] <Advant> nah
[20:30:24] <Advant> i downloaded this dsl xampp, but its more trouble than worth fucking with
[20:30:49] <Disreali> later all
[20:30:50] * Disreali is away: AFK
[20:30:54] <Begasus> cya Disreali
[20:31:24] <Begasus> no experience here with xamp Advant
[20:32:54] *** kirilla has quit IRC
[20:36:52] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku
[20:42:26] *** sprma has quit IRC
[20:44:38] <Begasus> hey PulkoMandy
[20:49:37] <PulkoMandy> hey
[20:53:27] *** The123king has joined #haiku
[21:00:37] *** stargater has joined #haiku
[21:00:40] <stargater> hi
[21:01:03] *** E-WolfShade has joined #haiku
[21:03:00] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku
[21:06:16] *** sprma has joined #haiku
[21:07:42] <Begasus> 'lo stargater
[21:09:57] <stargater> Begasus, hi
[21:12:25] <CIA-50> mmadia * r35818 /haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/platform/pxe_ia32/Jamfile: Fixes build for PXE NetBoot. Uncertain if additional changes are needed.
[21:12:42] *** The123king has left #haiku
[21:12:54] *** Barrett_ has joined #haiku
[21:17:11] *** tqh has joined #haiku
[21:17:18] *** margiolas has joined #haiku
[21:17:53] *** The123king has joined #haiku
[21:18:08] *** jan__64 has joined #haiku
[21:20:28] *** Barrett_ has quit IRC
[21:27:33] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC
[21:28:50] *** aldeck has quit IRC
[21:30:01] *** CaptainPike_hero has joined #haiku
[21:33:09] *** Cian has joined #haiku
[21:34:04] <Cian> mmadia around?
[21:34:25] <mmadia> yes, how goes?
[21:34:47] <Cian> is it in Haiku's best interests to send me to Cork? :P
[21:34:55] <mmadia> i haven't mailed the UCC guy yet.
[21:35:35] <Cian> I know Cork well, surprised people in UCC have time to worry about anything other than than 8 to 9 figure damage the flooding did though ;)
[21:35:57] <mmadia> if you're interested, i'm sure some people who've attendend shows in the past can give pointers or slides.
[21:36:14] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku
[21:36:42] *** CaptainPike_hero has left #haiku
[21:36:53] <Cian> if I can get some stuff on whats been done before, I can probably do it. I doubt they're going to be looking for extremely advanced info...
[21:37:39] *** cxvii has left #haiku
[21:38:24] <Cian> I think I'm the only person on the contributors list on the island anymore
[21:39:26] <mmadia> how close is UCC to you?
[21:39:45] <Cian> ~2hrs
[21:40:10] *** Nozy has joined #haiku
[21:40:51] <mmadia> would you want to mention this on one of the ml's, to see if people can help give you some presentation data?
[21:41:22] <Cian> might be an idea
[21:41:34] <mmadia> .. not that i know when Kevin was hoping to have a presentation.
[21:41:34] <Cian> who's given these in English before
[21:41:49] <Cian> I know theres been quite a few done by the core devs on the continent
[21:41:59] <mmadia> ryan, jorge, scott, bga, come to mind.
[21:42:07] <Cian> and tempting as it'd be to turn up with German slides, Cork people are't generallt as strange as me ;)
[21:43:48] <Cian> was thinking of asking ryan and scott anyway
[21:45:04] *** dakdagi has joined #haiku
[21:51:18] *** Barrett_ has joined #haiku
[21:54:26] *** Moiman has quit IRC
[21:54:39] *** BGA has quit IRC
[21:54:48] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku
[21:55:47] *** Moiman has joined #haiku
[21:58:36] *** jan__64 has quit IRC
[22:00:28] *** Disreali has quit IRC
[22:01:12] *** Disreali has joined #haiku
[22:03:51] *** helf|laptop has quit IRC
[22:03:56] *** Nozy has quit IRC
[22:04:09] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku
[22:04:32] *** sprma has quit IRC
[22:04:37] *** helf|laptop has joined #haiku
[22:04:51] * JonathanThompson poits helf|laptop
[22:04:54] <Skipp_OSX> is jmayfield here?
[22:05:28] <JonathanThompson> Try jmayfield_ also
[22:11:38] <Begasus> g'night peeps!
[22:12:25] *** Begasus has quit IRC
[22:14:30] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC
[22:16:13] *** saivert has quit IRC
[22:17:36] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku
[22:19:44] *** The123king has quit IRC
[22:31:18] *** romulo has joined #haiku
[22:31:37] <romulo> hi there
[22:32:03] <romulo> im trying to intsall haiku on an old laptop of mine but i get stuck on boot screen
[22:32:09] <romulo> maybe its the nightly build fault?
[22:33:43] <PulkoMandy> try pressing shift before the bootscreen shows and enable onscreen debug in the boot menu
[22:33:53] <romulo> hmm let me test
[22:33:55] <PulkoMandy> this way you can get some information on why it is having trouble
[22:36:29] *** alexixor has joined #haiku
[22:36:36] <alexixor> hi all
[22:37:06] *** Barrett_ has quit IRC
[22:37:11] <romulo> even enabling debug mode, i see nothing but the haiku logo
[22:37:27] <alexixor> I just tryied the latest haiku nightly and the wifi adapter on my laptop works!
[22:38:03] <alexixor> but  I don't know haow to select a network
[22:38:20] <romulo> alexixor: theres no utility for that yet i guess
[22:38:30] <martinhpedersen> what about wlanconfig?
[22:38:37] <martinhpedersen> not working?
[22:38:53] <alexixor> i did not know that this command exixtsts!
[22:38:55] <alexixor> :)
[22:39:08] <alexixor> I will check it out know
[22:39:11] <alexixor> now
[22:39:26] <romulo> i have the raw image here, how i record it on a dvd/cd to boot as live?
[22:40:16] <martinhpedersen> alexixor, you'll have to download it first;p
[22:40:18] <romulo> oh there are cd images on the site :D
[22:40:46] * H_MrSun is starting to get the hang of this C++ -> D binding stuff =)
[22:40:48] <H_MrSun> atleast a bit
[22:40:53] <martinhpedersen> alexixor: http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/haiku-wifi/files
[22:40:57] <H_MrSun> now inheritance of c++ classes work inside D =)
[22:41:06] <H_MrSun> and like OmniMancer said i overcomplicated stuff like hell =)
[22:41:23] <H_MrSun> atleast im man enough to admit it! =)
[22:41:40] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC
[22:42:00] <DraX> H_MrSun: yay!
[22:43:10] <H_MrSun> now its time to reboot this badboy and play some games before i go to sleep
[22:43:13] <H_MrSun> im like a freakin zombie
[22:43:35] <DraX> H_MrSun: are the changes checked in? ;)
[22:43:38] <H_MrSun> been programming for about 10 hours today, and doing math for my electrician education for like 3 hours, and i slept only 4 hours last night :P
[22:43:40] <H_MrSun> DraX, aye
[22:43:48] <H_MrSun> but no docs on how to use them, yet :P
[22:43:51] *** alexixor has quit IRC
[22:44:16] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku
[22:44:24] *** ecin has quit IRC
[22:44:40] <H_MrSun> ill be on as MrSunshine from now on
[22:44:41] <H_MrSun> bbl
[22:44:46] *** H_MrSun has quit IRC
[22:45:21] *** ahaaha has quit IRC
[22:45:46] <PathagenX> http://dailyshite.com/2009/12/happy-in-paraguay-fucked-up-star-trek-parody/
[22:46:03] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku
[22:47:16] *** saivert has joined #haiku
[22:47:38] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku
[22:49:16] *** Disreali has quit IRC
[22:50:38] <romulo> i recorded the disk image and it worked now :D
[22:50:41] <romulo> at least the live disk
[22:50:45] <romulo> will try to install and boot
[22:52:06] <Advant> why does there exist /usr/bin, /bin,/sbin,/usr/local/bin,/usr/local/sbin, etc?
[22:54:18] <Skipp_OSX> PathagenX, wow... just wow
[22:54:34] <PulkoMandy> Advant, we don't have all this on haiku
[22:54:43] <PulkoMandy> it's for easier maintenance of the system
[22:54:54] <Advant> yeah, not haiku directed
[22:55:38] <PathagenX> Data says a Haiku
[22:55:50] <PulkoMandy> sbin is for "static bin", these will run even if you delete everything else
[22:56:06] <PulkoMandy> and local is for stuff you install yourself, and are not managed by your linux package manager
[22:56:14] <Skipp_OSX> the reasons for all of the various bins are for historic reasons at this point
[22:56:28] <HeTo> PulkoMandy: it's superuser bin, not static
[22:56:29] <PulkoMandy> yes, they could be merged if people wanted so
[22:56:38] <DraX> what HeTo said
[22:56:43] <PulkoMandy> HeTo, depends where ... but yes that makes sense too
[22:56:46] <Skipp_OSX> should just all go in /bin and everything else a symlink
[22:57:04] <DraX> at least on freebsd /stand is static
[22:57:18] <DraX> i think openbsd still has /bin and /sbin as static
[22:57:19] <PulkoMandy> Skipp_OSX, I like to keep my "local" hacks separated from debian's stuff usually....
[22:57:32] <Skipp_OSX> and then hide those directories in the Tracker so nobody ever has to see those dirs again
[22:58:00] <PulkoMandy> I don't like hiding dirs from tracker
[22:58:07] <DraX> PulkoMandy: +1
[22:58:23] <HeTo> DraX: isn't it /rescue nowadays (since 5 series or something)?
[22:58:26] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, I don't like seeing dirs that only exist because Unix was designed in the 70s
[22:58:28] <PulkoMandy> this only create one more reason for opening terminal each time you need something done
[22:58:30] <Advant> OSX tries to pull same crap, hiding things :)
[22:58:46] *** ziomatto has quit IRC
[22:58:51] <PulkoMandy> if the dirs are here and we need them, let's show it
[22:58:52] <DraX> HeTo: yeah actually
[22:58:57] <DraX> i don't know when that change occured
[22:58:59] <PulkoMandy> if we don't need them, remove them altogether
[22:59:02] <MrSunshine> DraX, you working on something or what? :)
[22:59:07] <MrSunshine> or just following? :)
[22:59:09] <PulkoMandy> (and that's what we do)
[22:59:46] <Skipp_OSX> http://nimbledesign.com/post/441423115/the-path-of-most-resistance <--- most interesting line is: "for the average person, the file system is so complex that everything outside of the desktop and the documents folder appears to be a vast labyrinth which most likely hides booby traps and minotaurs."
[22:59:47] <DraX> MrSunshine: currently no, i've worked on a few things in the past, most of which unsuccessfully
[23:00:00] <DraX> MrSunshine: and right now haiku is having issues in virtualbox
[23:00:03] <DraX> so i'm sort of stuck
[23:00:10] <MrSunshine> aw, real hw ftw =)
[23:00:21] <DraX> yeah, i'm fixing up my thinkpad t61 for haiku
[23:00:34] <Skipp_OSX>  /bin /usr/bin /usr/sbin etc are full of booby traps and minitours for average users
[23:00:35] <PulkoMandy> Skipp_OSX, the layout on haiku is quite clear
[23:00:44] <DraX> i bought a new keyboard for it, and i just found out it's still under warrenty, so i'm going to try and get the fan and battery connectors replaced
[23:00:46] <curlyman> I thought haiku wasn't trying to be a UNIX.
[23:00:46] <PulkoMandy> in / you see all the volumes
[23:00:51] <mmadia> DraX : iirc, rolling back to an earlier version of virtualbox should help -- there might even be a ticket on Trac mentioning that.
[23:00:53] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, clear to you? or clear to the average computer user?
[23:00:53] <PulkoMandy> then you can just find your way inside
[23:01:07] <DraX> mmadia: so virtualbox 3.1.2 is broken for everyone?
[23:01:16] <Skipp_OSX> I would argue that it is anything but clear
[23:01:24] <PulkoMandy> in /boot you find system (that's clear), and home (that's ok too)
[23:01:30] <DraX> mmadia: i believe that older vbox may be incompatible with my kernel though
[23:01:41] <PulkoMandy> other stuff in /boot is only empty folders... so right we shouldn't create them
[23:02:06] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, the home directory is clear, the rest is a mess
[23:02:19] <PulkoMandy> you aren't supposed to mess with anything else :)
[23:02:26] <vooshy> DraX: theres always qemu
[23:02:27] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, well, it is clear to you and me, just not to the average user
[23:02:36] <PulkoMandy> the 'apps' folder holds apps, the 'preferences' one holds preferences
[23:02:42] <PulkoMandy> can we make that simpler ?
[23:02:45] <martinhpedersen> Wow, I can play 720p movies on my Haiku Box without frame drops... Didn't expect that at all!!:D
[23:02:54] <DraX> vooshy: yeah, though kqemu has been removed, which makes it pretty horrible
[23:03:15] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC
[23:03:16] <mmadia> DraX : http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5345#comment:1
[23:03:57] <DraX> mmadia: yup that's my bug
[23:04:02] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, you could make it simpler by hiding everything but /apps /preferences and /home
[23:04:22] <DraX> mmadia: but laptop soon, i think
[23:04:23] <Skipp_OSX> basically the user doesn't see anything that they are not expected to understand
[23:04:28] <vooshy> DraX: qemu 0.11.1 still has kqemu if you can run it
[23:04:54] <DraX> yes, there is a port for that
[23:04:55] <DraX> sweet
[23:05:04] <PulkoMandy> Skipp_OSX, I don't like the idea of hiding stuff
[23:05:11] <romulo> glteapot at 350 fps :D
[23:05:16] <PulkoMandy> it just makes things even harder when you need to mess with it
[23:05:23] <PulkoMandy> that's not solving the problem
[23:05:38] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, yeah I don't know a good solution really
[23:05:51] <PulkoMandy> educate the users ? :)
[23:06:28] <PulkoMandy> well, improving the names or adding a tracker column showing a short description of what to find/put in the folder could work
[23:06:50] <Skipp_OSX> well, if the system stuff was somewhere else, not hidden, just somewhere else
[23:07:02] <romulo> i wish there was a pidgin port for haiku
[23:07:14] <PulkoMandy> system stuff is in /boot/system ... putting it elsewhere would not make sense :)
[23:07:35] <vooshy> romulo: why, what im system do you want?
[23:07:40] <PulkoMandy> the common vs home stuff is still unclear even for devs right now
[23:07:45] <romulo> msn/aim/jabber
[23:07:46] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, I meant like if you accessed it from a different icon
[23:07:48] <DraX> MrSunshine: but yeah, tried to port emacs with varrying degrees of success, i have some code for really cool DNS stuff in net_server but it's not done, and I helped (ie prodded and cut and pasted some code) colin get wep working
[23:07:48] <PulkoMandy> so that may move when we get multiuser
[23:07:50] <Skipp_OSX> or something
[23:08:01] <PulkoMandy> mh
[23:08:22] <PulkoMandy> it does already have a different icon
[23:08:27] <PathagenX> I have a business, installing styrofoam nuns. Fuck a fruit basket.
[23:08:32] <PulkoMandy> and technically, it's really inside the disk
[23:08:37] <Skipp_OSX> one icon for regular files, another for "scary" files
[23:08:48] <PulkoMandy> so if it's a CD, you know that by removing it, you remove the system too
[23:08:49] <vooshy> romulo: if you can put up with terminal, i have a working msn client
[23:09:07] <romulo> centerim?
[23:09:13] *** Nozy has joined #haiku
[23:09:14] <vooshy> pebrot
[23:09:15] <PulkoMandy> I think it makes sense to show how things are done inside, it's not that complex, and the user will learn it
[23:09:16] *** tqh has quit IRC
[23:09:34] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, well, I agree with everything you said except the last part
[23:09:58] <PulkoMandy> when you try to hide such stuff, you don't make the system easier to learn, you havethe same height to crawl
[23:10:08] <PulkoMandy> but in one case it's a nice linear slope
[23:10:22] <PulkoMandy> and in the other you can go flat for a long time then encounter a big wall you have to jump
[23:10:48] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, well, the obvious solution is to just put everything on the Desktop, applications, files, downloads, everything
[23:11:08] <Skipp_OSX> and that is what most people do because the nice linear slope is too steep for them
[23:11:21] <PathagenX> When your cake is dry, the morlocks steal my shoe horn. Nasty ham wallet.
[23:11:24] <romulo> uh, doesnt haiku support usb devices?
[23:11:38] <romulo> ehci/uhci/ohci ?
[23:11:38] *** dakdagi has quit IRC
[23:11:44] <PulkoMandy> Skipp_OSX, I know no one doing that...
[23:11:55] <Cian> romulo it does...
[23:11:56] *** zmisc has joined #haiku
[23:11:58] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, anecdotal evidence isn't
[23:12:10] <PulkoMandy> of course
[23:12:19] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, of course people do that
[23:12:21] <PulkoMandy> but what do I know besides computer users I can see ?
[23:12:39] <romulo> Cian i just plugged a usb stick and it cant recognize it, maybe it cant mount ntfs?
[23:12:54] <Cian> it should have r/o NTFS in the default image
[23:13:05] <Cian> I've got a HDD that takes a bloody long time to mount
[23:13:09] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, you need to severely lower the bar of what you expect from people when it comes to computers
[23:13:11] <romulo> hmm it didnt automounted it
[23:13:27] <Cian> right click on the desktop and see if its in the mount list?
[23:13:38] <romulo> its not
[23:13:46] <PulkoMandy> I don't think so... computers or anything else, it just needs an effort to learn
[23:13:46] <Skipp_OSX> people use google to search for "facebook.com"
[23:13:47] <Cian> the ntfs driver is based on ntfs-3g from Linux so its fairly decent
[23:13:49] <romulo> mainly because the pendrive light is off i know its not working
[23:14:03] <romulo> maybe my uhci/ohci/ehci?
[23:14:16] <PulkoMandy> people use google to find google...
[23:14:17] <Cian> may sound very stupid but try another usb port, there could be an initialisation problem
[23:14:25] <Cian> those ports might not be on for whatever reason
[23:14:35] <Skipp_OSX> the purpose of the address bar is unknown, so expecting them to understand what /boot/system is is unreasonable
[23:14:52] <PulkoMandy> that's bad education and bad design
[23:14:59] <PulkoMandy> firefox autosearching things on google
[23:15:06] <PulkoMandy> that's hiding how an adderss bar is working
[23:15:20] <romulo> not working
[23:15:20] <PulkoMandy> you are not using it the right way, but it ends up working
[23:15:37] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, they admitted defeat...
[23:15:47] <romulo> what a flamewar :P
[23:15:56] <HeTo> Skipp_OSX: they don't need to understand what /boot/system is
[23:16:16] <HeTo> Skipp_OSX: they only need to understand that it's probably something you shouldn't fiddle with unless you know what you're doing
[23:16:45] <Skipp_OSX> HeTo, yes but by being there and not understanding it makes the disk icon a permanently scary place not to be entered ever lest you bork your system
[23:17:07] <Cian> romulo are you using USB input devices or not?
[23:17:26] <Skipp_OSX> better to just put everything on the desktop than ever double click the disk icon
[23:17:27] <PulkoMandy> Skipp_OSX, I think you can't just throw a computer at people and say 'use it'
[23:17:45] <PulkoMandy> there is an userguide... people won't read it of course
[23:17:45] <romulo> Cian, nop, only touchpad and keyboard
[23:17:48] <romulo> will try to plug a mouse
[23:17:51] <PulkoMandy> then it's not our fault
[23:18:05] *** ormandj has quit IRC
[23:18:12] <romulo> mouse worked
[23:18:14] <PulkoMandy> we have made things as easy as possible, explained them in a nice guide that's even linked on the welcome page
[23:18:28] <Cian> romulo strange, you might want to log up a bug for it. get listdev, etc for it
[23:18:33] <Auronandace> it can be rather amusing, yet frustrating, to see normally intelligent people sit infront of a computer and suddenly lose all common sense
[23:18:38] <PulkoMandy> so yes you need some training to work with a computer, like with any other tool
[23:19:01] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, well, maybe that is the best you can do, I think you can do better
[23:19:05] <romulo> Cian, i have no way to take data out of the pc :/
[23:19:06] <PulkoMandy> they don't lose common sense... you feel so because you already integrated how it works in your way of thinking
[23:19:10] <romulo> unless i boot some linux live and copy it
[23:19:26] <Cian> romulo retyping the USB relevant sections by hand ;)
[23:19:28] <romulo> theres anything like "dmesg" for haiku?
[23:19:30] <Cian> painful, but its for the cause...
[23:19:39] <PulkoMandy> romulo, cat /var/log/syslog
[23:19:39] <Cian> theres the syslog (/var/log/syslog)
[23:19:42] <romulo> hmm
[23:19:52] <romulo> yay
[23:20:09] <romulo> usb error echi 2: qtd(0x02863180) error: 0x00080248
[23:20:23] <romulo> error while setting device address
[23:20:37] <zmisc> How POSIX complient is Haiku?
[23:20:37] <Auronandace> like any other tool, you need to know how to use it, with me computers require a degree of reasoning and common sense
[23:20:53] <Cian> zmisc fairly. more so than BeOS by quite a margin
[23:20:57] <Skipp_OSX> actually Haiku could do better by indexing everything... and only showing files in applications, that way you never need to open the disk icon
[23:21:13] <romulo> pipe 16: timeout waiting for queued request to complete
[23:21:15] <PulkoMandy> indexing is planned
[23:21:22] <PulkoMandy> but you'd still need the disks
[23:21:27] <Auronandace> and many people are simply not bothered to invest the energy to learn to use it properly
[23:21:34] <PulkoMandy> how would you handle putting files on an usb stick ?
[23:22:22] <romulo> Windows already taugh users that files exist.  Forget the thinking to change that. Nobody wants the revolution. Everybody wants the stuff that "Just Works"
[23:22:35] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, sure you need the disks, but you never need to use them is the point, every user file in the system, music, movies, videos, applications, etc can go in a folder on the desktop. Then the apps use indexing to sort it all out
[23:23:01] <PulkoMandy> yes, you can do it that way
[23:23:05] <romulo> and if possible, for free
[23:23:12] <PulkoMandy> but what if some user somewhere finds folders simpler ?
[23:23:17] <romulo> Cian: saw the msgs?
[23:23:44] <Cian> romulo I did, but I'm not able to tell you what on earth they mean...
[23:23:47] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, then they can do that too, because on Haiku the filesystem is the index right
[23:24:04] <Cian> I'd suggest logging a bug with that data and also the PCI IDs of your controller (listdev should give that to you)
[23:24:10] <PulkoMandy> well, the fileystem can be used in both ways yes
[23:24:25] <Skipp_OSX> I like it!
[23:24:26] <romulo> Cian, looks familiar http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/2083
[23:24:37] <PulkoMandy> as of now the UI is quite focused on the file&folders view
[23:24:46] <PulkoMandy> that's a thing we could decide to change
[23:25:25] <PulkoMandy> the problem is getting whant you want from a query can sometimes be much harder
[23:25:37] <PulkoMandy> as the attributes are most of the time set by the system
[23:25:38] <romulo> theres any way to unload modules from kernel?
[23:25:45] <PulkoMandy> whereas the system never moves things around in folders
[23:25:52] <Cian> romulo have you got a build after the one mentioned there?
[23:26:13] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, but in the folder on the desktop with all my stuff in it situation that wouldn't matter
[23:26:17] <romulo> my build is pretty fresh
[23:26:25] <romulo> like from two days ago
[23:26:40] <Cian> check the about box, it'll give the SVN rev
[23:27:16] <romulo> 35786
[23:27:23] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, I know what you are getting at, you are getting at the way iTunes organizes your music in the filesystem for you...
[23:27:24] <Cian> so its after that one, then
[23:27:37] <Cian> time to open a new ticket / reopen that one
[23:27:42] <PulkoMandy> mh... I don't use iTunes
[23:27:43] <romulo> hmm
[23:27:48] <romulo> theres any way to disable ehci?
[23:27:52] <Skipp_OSX> automatically creates folders for artist and album and moves the files around in the fs
[23:28:02] <Cian> remove the ehci module
[23:28:03] <PulkoMandy> but yes this kind of things can be both useful and annoying
[23:28:21] <PulkoMandy> as it's both, you need an option to enable or disable it
[23:28:27] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, I agree, especially if your music collection doesn't easily fit into the artist/album format
[23:28:28] <PulkoMandy> and from that emerges useless complexity
[23:28:33] <romulo> Cian  how to?
[23:28:58] *** _maniac_ has joined #haiku
[23:28:59] <PulkoMandy> right... never know what to do with multiartists albums... :)
[23:29:00] <Skipp_OSX> like for classical music it is a pain because you almost never care about the artist that performed the music
[23:29:01] <Cian> its at somewhere like /boot/system/addons/kernel/busses (I'm not in Haiku atm)
[23:29:05] <Cian> drop it out to the desktop and reboot
[23:29:27] <PulkoMandy> Skipp_OSX, ok, for that the query system is way more useful
[23:29:28] <PathagenX> Fried cheese makes good eggs. The toast raped my mother though. Needs more penguin feet.
[23:29:41] <PulkoMandy> it can import the tags from your file and you query the way you want
[23:29:54] <Cian> do a search for ehci and you'll find it quick enough
[23:29:55] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, exactly, find me songs with composer="Beethoven"
[23:30:15] <romulo> yeah found
[23:30:16] <romulo> retesting
[23:30:19] <romulo> it boots so fast o.O
[23:30:24] <PulkoMandy> but it may not work for other stuff... for example I keep my school projects and documents each in a separate dir
[23:30:41] <PulkoMandy> that ease sorting them out, i think more than manual tagging
[23:30:43] <romulo> my usb device just worked now
[23:30:46] <romulo> ehci is really broke here
[23:30:53] *** oZ] has quit IRC
[23:30:53] <Cian> bug logging time
[23:31:27] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, couldn't you label the documents "school project 1" or whatever instead of using a directory
[23:31:27] <PulkoMandy> you also get the risk of files getting lost for having the wrong tags or no tags at all
[23:31:49] <PulkoMandy> maybe, but I like the tree struct for sorting
[23:32:07] <PulkoMandy> my projects dir is divided in two subdirs : school and personal
[23:32:16] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, yes I do too, I just don't think the average user does...
[23:32:19] <PulkoMandy> in personal I have a "code" and an "electronics" folder
[23:32:22] <PulkoMandy> and so on
[23:32:29] <PulkoMandy> in this case it just makes sense
[23:32:35] <PulkoMandy> while for music it doesn't
[23:33:15] <Skipp_OSX> right yeah that is true, makes more sense for music and pictures
[23:33:29] <PulkoMandy> I think you need a layer of folders, then inside each folder you can have tags
[23:33:30] *** oco has joined #haiku
[23:33:53] <PulkoMandy> a global thing wouldn't work sometimes, if I install some game usually I don't want the ingame music to land in my media player
[23:34:12] <PulkoMandy> folders are good for splitting stuff at the general level like that
[23:34:31] <PulkoMandy> but after some divisions it's better to switch to tags
[23:34:42] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, that is a good point, you also wouldn't want the system sounds to get added to your music
[23:34:56] <PulkoMandy> as the more fine-grained you go, the more overlapping you'll get between the categories you make
[23:35:04] <PulkoMandy> and tags will be better for that
[23:35:40] <Skipp_OSX> well, I think one thing the system could do for you is to tag documents by date
[23:36:12] <Skipp_OSX> so you could easily see the files that were accessed or modified today, yesterday, this week, this month, etc
[23:36:48] <romulo> hmm it loaded my wireless driver, but didnt turned it on
[23:37:01] <Skipp_OSX> recently accessed files are more likely to be of interest
[23:37:12] <romulo> and the last boot, it did
[23:37:22] *** luroh has quit IRC
[23:37:59] <PulkoMandy> haiku already does that
[23:38:05] <PulkoMandy> look at the example queries for mails
[23:38:21] <PulkoMandy> we have all the tech stuff needed
[23:38:27] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, okay well that is a good starting place
[23:38:37] <PulkoMandy> but we don't give it an easy exposure sadly
[23:38:58] <PulkoMandy> (it's not that easy to have an efficient, powerful and easy to use query builder)
[23:39:47] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, I agree that it is quite a technical, and anthropological challenge
[23:39:57] <PulkoMandy> and providing prebuilt queries is like enforcing the user to use them and not others, so that wouldn't work
[23:40:25] <DraX> qemu \o/
[23:40:26] <romulo> i gotta go, later i discuss the bugs with u guys. Thanks Cian and all others =]
[23:40:29] <romulo> haiku rocks
[23:40:30] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, but I think providing prebuilt queries for date accessed and date modified should be the exception
[23:40:44] <PulkoMandy> yes, you can provide them anyway
[23:40:52] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, since if you have no other starting point to find a document that gives you something to go on
[23:41:00] <PulkoMandy> but I think they should be made available as "samples" of what you can do
[23:41:20] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, I'd rather see them as default
[23:41:39] <PulkoMandy> depends on the ui anyway
[23:41:41] <Skipp_OSX> PulkoMandy, but just those two... they are the only exception
[23:42:08] <PulkoMandy> mh... befs doesn't store the 'date accessed', however
[23:42:10] <Skipp_OSX> like I said with iTunes the artist/album thing works *most* of the time but is really annoying when it doesn't
[23:42:31] <PulkoMandy> well, iTunes doesn't allow you to change the layout
[23:42:40] <PulkoMandy> queries are editable, so it would be ok
[23:43:10] <romulo> rhythmbox is the best player ever
[23:43:12] <DraX> you could probably build an api something like xmms2 collections ontop of bfs queries too
[23:43:19] <romulo> now im going o/
[23:43:26] *** romulo has left #haiku
[23:43:29] <DraX> http://wiki.xmms2.xmms.se/wiki/Collections_Concept
[23:43:34] <PulkoMandy> why would we need an api ? :)
[23:43:45] <PulkoMandy> mediaplayer and queries works well together
[23:44:01] *** ecin has joined #haiku
[23:44:16] <Skipp_OSX> the idea I think is that your media player should be as simple as possible and queries should be where all the power is
[23:44:25] <DraX> agree
[23:44:40] <DraX> but i think you're going to want custom query uis for music
[23:44:43] <DraX> especially for browsing
[23:44:50] <DraX> a lot of times browsing is forgotten
[23:45:10] <PulkoMandy> yes
[23:45:26] <Skipp_OSX> well, if all of the iTunes query options were available as queries that would be a start
[23:45:36] <PulkoMandy> most modern systems mix up file handling and browsing
[23:45:44] <DraX> yeah
[23:45:52] <Cian> BIYS had one of the best query based music libraries I've seen....
[23:45:55] <PulkoMandy> windows 3.1 separated them, amiga did too to some extent
[23:46:12] <Skipp_OSX> I think the UI for smart playlist is a bit too complex though
[23:46:40] <PulkoMandy> yes... keep it simple, coherent and efficient
[23:46:45] <Cian> throw in podcasts and video to the mix and its artist/album/ idea does hurt a bit though
[23:46:45] <PulkoMandy> use tracker as much as possible
[23:46:49] <Skipp_OSX> although Apple does provide a bunch of defaults which are useful
[23:46:59] <PulkoMandy> improve it if you need so, instead of creating something else besides it
[23:47:14] <Skipp_OSX> Top 25 Most Played, Recenty Added, Recently Played
[23:47:40] <DraX> all the data for that could be written as attributes
[23:47:44] *** E-WolfShade has quit IRC
[23:47:45] <DraX> and then you have a set of pre-defined music queries
[23:47:56] *** panopticon has joined #haiku
[23:47:57] <Skipp_OSX> DraX, exactly, and it _should_ is my point
[23:48:02] <PulkoMandy> mh
[23:48:16] <PulkoMandy> someone must have done that already
[23:48:18] <DraX> agree, one thing we did with xmms2 is let people write arbitrary values for any song
[23:48:31] <PulkoMandy> it's the more obvious exaple of queries
[23:49:21] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC
[23:49:37] <PulkoMandy> anyway... it's time to sleep here
[23:49:41] <PulkoMandy> 'night
[23:50:12] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC
[23:51:13] *** daste has joined #haiku
[23:53:33] *** McBersas2 has joined #haiku
[23:53:55] *** Nozy has quit IRC
[23:54:08] *** McBersas2 has quit IRC
[23:54:21] *** McBersas2 has joined #haiku
[23:55:35] <McBersas2> martinhpedersen :-))
[23:55:51] *** Nozy has joined #haiku
[23:55:57] <martinhpedersen> McBersas2 :)
[23:56:07] *** McBersas2 is now known as RaZzB3RrY
[23:57:07] *** Nozy has quit IRC

   March 11, 2010  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | >