March 4, 2010 
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | >
March 4, 2010 [00:01:01] <bjl> pretty recent interest[00:02:33] *** brad2ct has joined #haiku[00:04:00] *** H_MrSun has joined #haiku[00:04:37] <brad2ct> hi, sorry for the really basic question but i've never used gcc... how do i compile a simple C++ file? in windows it's just "cl - EHsc <filename>" but whats it under haiku?[00:06:12] *** mappy has joined #haiku[00:06:15] *** PathagenX has quit IRC[00:06:15] <HeTo> brad2ct: g++ file[00:06:51] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[00:07:15] <HeTo> if you want the output to be written with another name besides a.out you can specify that with -o[00:07:46] <mappy> i've been trying to run beos 5 personal in qemu, and i can't get out of the failsafe video driver... any suggestions?[00:08:24] <leszek> mappy, beos5 runs really sloppy in qemu , when runs at all :P[00:08:55] <mappy> i've noticed ^^;; but that's okay[00:08:57] <kirilla> brad2ct: there's also a makefile + makefile.engine, template kinda thing you can use for making simple multi-file project[00:09:06] *** H_MrSun has quit IRC[00:09:19] <leszek> gn8@all[00:09:21] *** leszek has quit IRC[00:09:31] <mappy> i extracted the harddisk and boot floppy from the official personal-edition installer, but it will only boot from the boot floppy and doesn't seem to read the vesa configuration from the hdd[00:09:32] <kirilla> brad2ct: if that sounds interesting just search for those two files and read them[00:12:05] <brad2ct> krilla, HeTo - thanks[00:12:12] <kirilla> np[00:13:47] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[00:14:04] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[00:14:14] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[00:16:50] *** brad2ct has quit IRC[00:20:16] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35750 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/debug/tracing.cpp:[00:20:16] <CIA-50> TracingMetaData::_InitPreviousTracingData():[00:20:16] <CIA-50> * More output.[00:20:16] <CIA-50> * Actually increment errorCount when encountering an error. The loop[00:20:17] <CIA-50> condition would never be false this way.[00:23:12] <DraX> can we get CIA support for the webkit repo? :)[00:23:18] <DraX> mmadia: ^^[00:24:26] <mmadia> iirc, that's best to setup as a post-commit hook.[00:24:41] <mmadia> otherwise cia would need to poll the repo every few minutes.[00:25:05] <DraX> mmlr_mc: ^^^ ;)[00:27:12] *** bradct has joined #haiku[00:30:30] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[00:34:47] *** Kokito has quit IRC[00:35:23] <zeus> Thanks everyone for (re)creating such a wonderfull operating system![00:35:44] <zeus> goodnight[00:36:06] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[00:36:11] *** zeus has quit IRC[00:40:45] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[00:42:43] <CIA-50> kirilla * r35751 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/mail/MailWindow.cpp: Partial clean-up.[00:43:29] <kirilla> goodnight[00:43:31] *** kirilla has quit IRC[00:46:05] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:50:33] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[00:51:44] <bradct> hrm my compiled binarys dont seem to run in the terminal when i try them[00:51:57] <bradct> even just a simple helloworld[00:52:45] <DraX> bradct: expand ``don't seem to run''[00:55:31] <bradct> nothing happens[00:56:00] <DraX> bradct: pastebin your source somewhere and the gcc line you used to compile it[00:56:11] <DraX> and how you tried to run it[00:56:47] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[01:01:14] <CIA-50> mmlr * r280 /webkit/trunk/: Add WebPositive.rsrc to the ignore list.[01:01:48] <DraX> yay![01:01:54] <DraX> mmlr_mc: \o/[01:02:00] <mmlr_mc> there you go[01:03:28] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[01:05:35] *** bradct has quit IRC[01:10:23] <DraX> dear n900, you suck, plesae stop tormenting me[01:22:39] *** oco has quit IRC[01:22:56] <drano> port haiku to your n900[01:23:03] <DraX> i don't own one[01:23:08] <DraX> and that would be incredibly stupid[01:23:32] <drano> haiku could be the next great smartphone platform[01:23:47] <DraX> haiku is a desktop os[01:23:52] <DraX> not a smartphone os[01:24:13] <drano> just you wait[01:39:20] <AlienSoldier> before there was workstation and personal computer, now there is only "desktop". phone and desktop will eventually merge[01:41:15] <AlienSoldier> i think haiku is small enought to be included in an advanture videogame as a fully working OS :)[01:41:23] <AlienSoldier> *adventure[01:56:55] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[01:58:33] *** bradct has joined #haiku[02:08:52] *** vooshy has quit IRC[02:09:04] *** mmadia has quit IRC[02:09:12] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[02:14:07] *** bradct has quit IRC[02:15:35] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[02:22:46] *** mmlr_mc has quit IRC[02:24:02] <largo> (8:25:44 PM) Chris Mecca: AAAAND[02:24:02] <largo> (8:25:48 PM) Chris Mecca: i just moved a bookshelf[02:24:02] <largo> (8:26:00 PM) Chris Mecca: and there looks to be a somewhat half assembled pc behind it that i forgot about?[02:24:04] <largo> hahaha[02:24:27] <largo> that's one of my friends that has a nice collection of classic PC's and OS's[02:24:41] <largo> it'll be interesting to see what's on that machine.[02:25:19] <largo> http://origin.wjoe.tv/~cmecca/sshots/[02:25:55] <largo> in case anyone is bored. (that server itself is an old SGI http://origin.wjoe.tv/cgi-bin/MachineInfo ) ;)[02:27:59] *** Xeon3D has joined #haiku[02:36:50] *** Xeon3D has quit IRC[02:47:12] *** mmadia has quit IRC[02:48:07] *** aldeck has quit IRC[02:48:22] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[02:52:41] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35752 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/slab/ObjectDepot.cpp:[02:52:41] <CIA-50> exchange_with_empty() did not set the freeMagazine return value to NULL when[02:52:41] <CIA-50> the maximum magazine count wasn't reached yet. With object_depot_store() not[02:52:41] <CIA-50> resetting its local variable, a magazine could thus be emptied and freed[02:52:41] <CIA-50> twice. Fixes #5489 and #5497.[02:56:47] *** mmadia has quit IRC[03:02:11] *** surrounder has quit IRC[03:06:32] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[03:07:07] *** Barrett has quit IRC[03:10:33] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[03:12:44] *** surrounder has joined #haiku[03:46:28] *** Micc has joined #haiku[04:26:59] *** mmadia has quit IRC[04:28:43] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[04:36:10] *** mmadia has quit IRC[04:36:28] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[04:40:09] *** mmadia has quit IRC[04:41:23] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[04:53:06] *** impy has quit IRC[04:56:09] *** l_n has joined #haiku[04:59:55] <l_n> btw, with the xemacs patch and building without gui support, xemacs works in Terminal[05:00:09] * l_n was looking at the PortLog on ports.haiku-files-org[05:00:20] <l_n> s/s-o/s\.o/[05:03:51] *** mmadia has quit IRC[05:05:23] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[05:05:47] <DraX> yeah but it's xemacs[05:06:15] <DraX> no js2-mode :([05:12:40] <l_n> nor will slime work properly.[05:13:15] <l_n> which reminds me.. i need to figure out exactly *what* goes horribly wrong building sbcl[05:13:22] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku[05:14:03] <l_n> what not hack js2-mode to work with xemacs?[05:14:46] <l_n> why*[05:14:53] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC[05:17:03] <DraX> it'd be more like a rewrite[05:17:22] <DraX> the way it does highlighting is using a feature that xemacs doesn't implement[05:17:28] <DraX> since they took a different approach[05:24:36] <l_n> there was some work done on gnu emacs, but iirc, it fails miserably after compiling successfully[05:25:47] <DraX> yeah i was the one that did the work[05:25:48] <DraX> :)[05:43:36] *** mmadia has quit IRC[05:49:08] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[05:56:20] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[06:02:39] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[06:05:47] *** geist has quit IRC[06:06:41] *** geist has joined #haiku[06:06:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o geist[06:13:06] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[06:18:19] <l_n> DraX: it seems so long ago that we had those conversations about emacs.. but i know it was only a few weeks[06:18:41] *** l_n has quit IRC[06:23:31] <OmniMancer> DraX: any chance of you attempting to compile llvm?[06:24:09] <saivert> http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/[06:24:13] <saivert> hours of entertainment[06:25:57] <OmniMancer> are they idiots saivert?[06:29:23] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[06:36:48] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[06:39:19] <bbjimmy> too bad WebPositive crashes on Facebook.[06:41:02] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[06:45:13] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[06:45:44] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[06:47:29] *** impy has joined #haiku[06:50:57] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[06:51:22] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[06:57:31] <CIA-50> scottmc * r622 /haikuports/trunk/app-editors/nano/nano-2.2.3.bep: Initial .bep for nano[07:02:52] *** sprma has quit IRC[07:08:02] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[07:08:53] *** sprma has joined #haiku[07:10:26] <saivert> OmniMancer: no it's actually a lot of valid posts. but yes it's form is a bit over the top aggressive, but that makes it fun[07:10:32] <saivert> *its[07:11:15] <saivert> and I doubt there is a lot of linux fans in here anyways. there is a reason you guys hang out in #haiku right?[07:13:30] *** Kokito has quit IRC[07:22:01] <flameshadow> I'm here for the cake. Someone promised cake.[07:24:18] *** i-hate-linux has joined #haiku[07:24:32] <i-hate-linux> yo[07:24:54] <i-hate-linux> I don't know much about beos[07:25:04] <i-hate-linux> Can someone help?[07:25:24] <flameshadow> Sure, except this is the Haiku channel.[07:25:44] <i-hate-linux> Yeah, but I know Haiku is a remake of it[07:25:51] <i-hate-linux> so my questions kinda overlap[07:26:36] <flameshadow> Ask away[07:27:03] <i-hate-linux> I just wanna know, why recreate it? What benefits did it offer? What sort of file formates does it use? That kinda thing[07:27:07] <i-hate-linux> It looks purdy[07:27:41] <flameshadow> BEcause it did a lot of things right[07:28:53] <flameshadow> I should say, it did a lot of things right without all the legacy.. in 1996[07:30:44] <i-hate-linux> cool[07:30:44] <i-hate-linux> Does it have a standard executable format? Like exes in 'doze?[07:30:44] <flameshadow> I haven't checked recently, but I assume it's ELF[07:31:30] *** sprma has quit IRC[07:37:30] *** {V} has joined #haiku[07:38:31] <i-hate-linux> ELF?[07:38:55] <flameshadow> Hm. used to be PEF[07:40:42] <flameshadow> ELF is Executable and Linkable FOrmat, PEF is Preferred Executable Format.. was used on the PPC version of the BeBox[07:41:32] *** noldsel has joined #haiku[07:41:58] <OmniMancer> is there any modern non 'doze OS that doesn't use ELF for its executables?[07:42:36] *** noldsel has joined #haiku[07:43:22] <flameshadow> modern?[07:43:29] <flameshadow> Irix still count as modern?[07:44:14] <flameshadow> I guess OSX.. seems they use Mach-O[07:45:08] *** noldsel has quit IRC[07:45:21] <flameshadow> Not sure what solaris uses[07:45:30] *** noldsel has joined #haiku[07:45:36] <OmniMancer> okay besides the two that are developed by major corporations then.[07:49:29] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[07:55:52] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku[07:56:58] <flameshadow> I'm sure I could find some OS that fits the bill[08:02:24] <OmniMancer> they are just rare[08:04:21] *** dreux has joined #haiku[08:05:54] <saivert> well all Linux derived systems use one form of ELF[08:05:59] <saivert> even embedded ones[08:06:39] <saivert> ELF works, why make a new format (oh wait,, it's linux we are talking about with a dozen package managers and distros)[08:07:05] *** dreux is now known as BePhantom[08:07:45] <jmayfield_> hi BePhantom[08:07:45] <flameshadow> If you're not going with a gnu toolchain, it might make sense to ditch ELF[08:08:06] <BePhantom> hello jmayfield[08:08:08] <saivert> yeah sure the Linux kernel can be repurposed to use another executable format[08:08:17] <saivert> again, why ?[08:09:23] <flameshadow> Well, let's say you're making a cross-platform OS and you want your executable file to support multiple architectures in a single binary[08:09:28] <flameshadow> Then you might run into trouble with ELF[08:09:59] <flameshadow> Whether those choices are wise is another issue.[08:10:24] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[08:11:01] <saivert> WIndows PE did allow for a 16 bit stub. usually only printing "This is a win32 executable" or something like that[08:11:20] <saivert> *does[08:11:26] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[08:11:39] * OmniMancer1 waves goodbye to himself.[08:12:26] *** e-jones has joined #haiku[08:16:14] * BePhantom is away: If you want to know where I am call a psychic! If you're too lazy to do that just leave me a message![08:17:00] <saivert> "Hey guys, I have an OS that boots in like a nanosecond. It's called GRUB-OS. It even has a text editor, just hit "e". Pretty sweet huh?"[08:17:44] <saivert> meh boring. going to sleep[08:18:02] <saivert> please don't touch any of my keys. I might wake up again then[08:24:41] * MrSunshine starts playing bongo with saivert's keys[08:28:36] *** PathagenX has quit IRC[08:29:23] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[08:33:59] *** BePhantom has quit IRC[08:35:29] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[08:36:34] *** Micc has quit IRC[08:40:28] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[08:50:30] *** stippi has joined #haiku[08:50:30] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[08:51:42] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku[08:52:40] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[09:07:37] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[09:08:11] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[09:10:32] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[09:18:10] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[09:27:30] *** i-hate-linux has quit IRC[09:52:17] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[09:52:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[09:52:38] *** aldeck is now known as aldeck_work[09:54:34] *** bjl is now known as bjl_afk[09:57:27] *** hmt has joined #haiku[09:58:39] <hmt> I've noticed that if you try installing Haiku over an existing install it offers to just replace existing files. Is this safe and reliable or must I do a clean install to properly upgrade?[09:59:16] <hmt> replace updated files, sorry[10:01:03] *** J-Ho has joined #haiku[10:09:42] *** Kroki has joined #haiku[10:10:30] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[10:10:31] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[10:11:57] *** mappyg has joined #haiku[10:12:59] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[10:14:44] *** mappy has quit IRC[10:21:36] *** stippi has quit IRC[10:35:41] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[10:37:27] *** Nozy has quit IRC[10:38:56] *** |Qeos| has joined #haiku[10:40:13] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35753 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/arch/x86/arch_vm.cpp:[10:40:13] <CIA-50> add_mtrrs_for_range(): Fixed computation of the register ranges. Per power of[10:40:13] <CIA-50> 2 size we might need to use two registers (for the start and the end of the[10:40:13] <CIA-50> range).[10:42:39] <hmt> I often get a 'PANIC: cache destroy: still has partial slabs' error when unmounting or accessing usb drives. I'm using a nightly from 24th Feb- might this have ben fixed since?[10:43:09] <CIA-50> stippi * r35754 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/DefaultDecorator.cpp:[10:43:09] <CIA-50> Fixed regression introduced in r35706. The decorator would not include the[10:43:09] <CIA-50> inner row/column of pixels of the resize knob anymore. (18 - 5 - 1 != 13)[10:43:12] *** Qeos has quit IRC[10:45:43] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[10:46:29] <largo> should you have to unmount a USB drive manually before unplugging it, if the files are already done being written? or will they not flush to disk until you manually unmount? I always got the impression that the point of USB drives was to be able to hot plug them and unplug them when you were done without having to manually mount and unmount.[10:46:34] <largo> perhaps I'm naive and ignorant. :D[10:46:54] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35755 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/arch/x86/arch_vm.cpp: panic() when running out of MTRRs. I know I'm gonna regret this...[10:46:56] <largo> (I've gotten some KDL's when futzing around with my USB stick)[10:47:02] <OmniMancer> largo: don't unplug it while its being used[10:47:19] <OmniMancer> that should be your least favourite thing to do[10:47:29] <largo> OmniMancer: I didn't. I wrote a small text file to it... watched the LED stop... waited a bit.. and then unplugged it. KDL. :([10:48:06] <OmniMancer> well maybe haiku doesn't like having things suddenly disappear, a reasonable request[10:48:26] <hmt> I've noticed that if you try installing Haiku over an existing install it offers to just replace updated files. Is this safe and reliable or must I do a clean install to properly upgrade?[10:48:30] <HeTo> largo: if it's mounted, it is in use[10:48:52] <CIA-50> stippi * r35756 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/power/enhanced_speedstep/frequency.cpp: Check for division by zero.[10:49:12] <OmniMancer> hmt: I don't think you can do it from the currently running haiku[10:49:13] <largo> either way, it shouldn't crash the system. a better solution I'd think would be a dialog saying "please don't do that" or something. ;)[10:49:20] <OmniMancer> but I have done it from another one[10:49:44] <OmniMancer> largo: treat it like an ipod[10:49:52] <OmniMancer> remove without ejecting on pain of death[10:50:07] *** leszek_ has joined #haiku[10:50:27] <hmt> OmniMancer: I was referring to booting off a CD or USB, running its installer and then pointing it to install over an existing install[10:50:30] <leszek_> hi[10:50:34] <leszek_> anyone build the fuse module yet ?[10:50:35] <CIA-50> stippi * r35757 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/partitioning_systems/intel/PartitionMap.cpp:[10:50:35] <CIA-50> I don't know what recent change may have caused this, but I had to introduce the[10:50:35] <CIA-50> check to avoid a division by zero when scanning my partition map in order to be[10:50:35] <CIA-50> able to boot. I cannot spot any regressions, I can still access all my partitions[10:50:35] <CIA-50> just fine.[10:50:38] <hmt> hi leszek_![10:50:51] <largo> users are stupid. unplugging a usb stick, which is fairly natural behavior, shouldn't crash your operating system. that's all I'm saying. I understand you're not supposed to do it... but that's rather irrelevant to my point.[10:51:02] <leszek_> I have problems building it, the tutorial does not work : http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/access_bfs_with_fuse[10:51:11] <OmniMancer> hmt: I have done it before and haven't experienced terrible things happening[10:51:33] <leszek_> jam bfs_fuse simply doesn't build anything, as it can't find bfs_fuse[10:51:44] <OmniMancer> we should find a way to warn the user the first 10 times then take their life for use by haiku on the 11 :P[10:52:13] <hmt> unplugging an unmounted stick shouldn't KDL, nor should unplugging a mounted one but to not expect file loss when unplugging a mounted drive is unfair/ dtupid[10:52:18] <hmt> dtupid?[10:52:19] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[10:52:21] <hmt> :)[10:52:46] <OmniMancer> unplugging a mounted drive should result in community service :P[10:52:51] <leszek_> :)[10:53:31] <OmniMancer> have your computer confiscated and added to the collective :P[10:53:48] <idefix_xifedi> leszek_: you did a jam "<build>bfs_fuse", right?[10:53:55] *** leszek_ is now known as leszek[10:54:14] <geist> yep. it's a bug[10:54:29] <geist> pulling the fs out from underneath it is an extremely complicated problem to solve properly[10:54:43] <OmniMancer> indeed[10:54:52] <geist> clearly haiku has a vm issue with it. as with all things os, tearing stuff down, especially unesxpectedly, is super hard[10:54:57] <OmniMancer> I would prefer people being conditioned to not pull out a mounted USB stick[10:54:58] <leszek> idefix_xifedi, I replaced <build> with the build directory (generatedgcc2hybrid)[10:55:14] <hmt> Yes but me and largo are getting KDLs unmounting or removing unmounted disks[10:55:26] <idefix_xifedi> ah no, you have to explicitely build "<build>bfs_fuse"[10:55:36] <leszek> ah ok[10:55:37] <OmniMancer> however it shouldn't be impossible to have the USB thing inform the FS that the device isn't there and have everything removed[10:55:44] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[10:55:52] <geist> OmniMancer: it's very very hard[10:56:11] <geist> there are tons of io in flight, pages in various states. fs cache deeply integrated into the VM, etc[10:56:13] <OmniMancer> :([10:56:17] <geist> very very nontrivial[10:56:34] <OmniMancer> can't we just have it trash everything when the USB stack says the device isn't there[10:56:41] <geist> yes. it's very nontrivial[10:56:42] <OmniMancer> and not guarantee the state of the USB stick :P[10:57:04] <geist> it should and i'm sure it tries, but i'm just not surprised if there's an edge case it can't handle[10:57:07] <geist> hence the panic[10:57:13] <OmniMancer> too bad USB sockets don't have locks on them that the computer can engage :P[10:57:26] <hmt> I've never understoodwhy Linux never seems to finish writing data to a drive until you unmount it. Surely the OS priority should be to write all data ASAP just in case the user does unplug the drive without unmounting? Windows does a better job of this[10:57:39] <flameshadow> If they had locks then one could not easily swallow it when the police smash down the door.[10:57:39] <OmniMancer> um[10:57:46] <geist> hmt: you lose a ton of performance with that[10:57:47] <leszek> hmt, it did back in the 90s :P[10:57:50] *** Kroki has quit IRC[10:57:51] <OmniMancer> windows knows it's a usb stick[10:57:59] <OmniMancer> linux trates it much like any other drive[10:58:10] <geist> windows treats removable media differently, and essentially mounts it with writethru cache[10:58:11] <leszek> hmt, but some thought it might be to slow, and implemented asynchron writes to usb[10:58:21] <geist> linux could totally do that, but really it'd be up to the user space to dcide to do that[10:58:33] <geist> ie, the kernel doesn't dictate policy on how you treat a file system[10:58:47] <hmt> case of bad defaults then[10:58:49] <geist> just so happens that i guess most linux distros dont have an option for that[10:59:15] <geist> it's an option you can override in windows too. 'optimize for quick removal' vs 'optimize for performance'[10:59:21] <geist> it just defaults it quick removal for removable media[10:59:41] <OmniMancer> which is reasonable[11:00:05] <geist> right, and this is also much more important if the removable media has a terribly crappy file system like FAT[11:00:20] <geist> where there are zillions of ways of corrupting it if you let the disk cache write things out willy nilly[11:00:53] <OmniMancer> indeed[11:01:10] <OmniMancer> they should really be forced to use journaled FSs on USB sticks[11:01:34] <geist> yep. alas the defacto file system for removable stuff is FAT[11:02:05] <OmniMancer> we should have a standard produced :P[11:02:08] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[11:02:14] <geist> good luck[11:02:22] <OmniMancer> and a nice easily implementable but good FS too[11:02:30] <largo> I'll try to keep a closer eye on the USB stuff and see if I get another KDL when doing something "by the rules". ;)[11:02:55] <OmniMancer> I count myself lucky if haiku can see my USB stick[11:03:03] <flameshadow> How well does haiku support dual displays?[11:03:18] <OmniMancer> not sure[11:03:28] <OmniMancer> I love its workspaces preflet though :D[11:12:02] *** PathagenX has quit IRC[11:28:40] <hmt> flameshadow: Not tried multi-head Haiku but far as I'm aware its on the TODO list hence prob unsupported[11:29:45] <MrSunshine> flameshadow, depends on display driver as far as i know[11:29:58] <MrSunshine> i think nvidia driver can do dual head[11:34:40] *** DDevine has joined #haiku[11:35:06] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35758 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Reverted unnecessary part of r35433.[11:36:43] *** Yaroze has quit IRC[11:37:25] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku[11:39:31] <largo> brb... off to try crashing my system. :D[11:39:43] <largo> (testing to see if my wifi hard lock problem is still in the latest nightly)[11:41:54] *** largo has quit IRC[11:45:38] *** rapha has joined #haiku[11:45:40] <rapha> Hi all![11:45:54] <rapha> I just tried out the Haiku Alpha under VirtualBox ... it's AWESOME![11:46:27] <rapha> Just two questions: what network card should I choose to make it work and how to change the screen resolution to 1280x800?[11:47:05] <OmniMancer> intel 1000/Pro[11:47:59] <rapha> okay[11:48:31] <leszek> resolution should be changeable by the Screen Prefernce app[11:48:50] <leszek> but be aware it uses vesa driver, so high resolutions might slow down a little bit[11:48:51] <OmniMancer> leszek: he wants a widescreen res[11:49:00] <leszek> ah my mistake[11:49:02] <leszek> xD[11:49:03] <OmniMancer> which vesa probably won't do[11:49:15] <OmniMancer> 1280x800 is a widescreen res[11:49:21] <leszek> yeah thats true[11:49:22] <OmniMancer> I know because my laptop uses it :P[11:49:49] <rapha> leszek: i found that preference app but it only shows 4:3 resolutions[11:50:07] <rapha> so right now you only have a vesa driver?[11:50:14] <leszek> rapha, thats a limitation of the vesa driver[11:50:16] <OmniMancer> what graphics card do you have?[11:50:17] <rapha> k[11:50:24] <OmniMancer> its a limitation of vesa itself[11:50:27] <rapha> OmniMancer: well, the VirtualBox graphics card obviously :-)[11:50:32] <OmniMancer> ah[11:50:38] <leszek> rapha, there are lots of other drivers but no virtualbox graphicscard one I guess[11:50:44] <OmniMancer> well then wait for someone to write a custom driver:P[11:50:46] <rapha> OmniMancer: the laptop itself has an Intel but afaik VirtualBox abstracts that away[11:50:56] <OmniMancer> there are plenty for nvidia and such[11:50:59] <rapha> k[11:51:08] <rapha> hmmm should it run natively on a ThinkPad T61?[11:51:09] <OmniMancer> just live with the 4:3 if possible[11:51:18] <OmniMancer> 1024x768 is close enough[11:51:20] <leszek> rapha, try it[11:51:30] <OmniMancer> try it that will decide :P[11:51:34] <rapha> k :)[11:51:49] <leszek> thinkpad has a intel chipset right ?[11:51:54] <rapha> will have to see if i can find a second harddrive lying around somewhere[11:52:04] <rapha> yes leszek[11:52:16] <leszek> ssd or ide ?[11:52:21] <leszek> s-ata sry[11:52:23] <rapha> the graphics card is an Intel X3100 as i have a cheaper model[11:52:23] <leszek> xD[11:52:30] <rapha> hmmm how do i find out if its ide or sata?[11:52:37] <rapha> (am under linux right now)[11:53:12] <leszek> gnome-device-manager :P[11:53:31] <rapha> "no such file or directory"[11:53:40] <OmniMancer> I have an Intel GMA 945 or something in here...[11:53:43] <OmniMancer> not fun :([11:53:46] <rapha> not?[11:53:55] <rapha> under linux the intel graphics cards are total bliss[11:53:59] <rapha> best driver support ever[11:54:11] <leszek> OmniMancer, there is a intel extreme driver I know, because its running fine with my eeePC 701[11:54:14] <OmniMancer> unfortunately this laptop has the best touchpad I have ever used on a laptop ever[11:54:20] <HeTo> it isn't, at least with i815[11:54:29] *** lorglas has quit IRC[11:54:30] <OmniMancer> indeed the not fun is more in relation to shaders don't work[11:54:40] <rapha> k[11:54:41] <HeTo> if you play a video with opengl, all the redraws from behind the video show through[11:54:46] <rapha> oh[11:54:48] <OmniMancer> :([11:54:51] <rapha> not like that with the X3100[11:55:18] <leszek> rapha, I guess the thinkpad can boot from usb[11:55:34] <rapha> yeah it can leszek[11:55:36] <HeTo> on FreeBSD the driver was totally broken for about a year at least with i865 or somesuch[11:55:49] <rapha> is there a guide on how to get the Haiku iso onto USB?[11:55:53] <leszek> then just use a usb stick and dd a haiku raw image (see nightlies) on it. No need to install[11:55:59] <OmniMancer> DO NOT USE THE ISO[11:56:09] <OmniMancer> USE THE RAW HDD IMAGE![11:56:16] <leszek> yes RAW[11:56:45] <rapha> omg[11:56:50] <OmniMancer> until mmadia or whoever gets the hack with the ISO RAW hybrid thing going you must use the correct image[11:56:57] <rapha> no need to shout like the world's gonna end :)[11:57:13] *** _4pLaY has left #haiku[11:57:24] * rapha d/l's the raw image[11:57:31] <OmniMancer> the world will end if you use the wrong image![11:58:02] <leszek> :)[12:02:00] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[12:02:42] <rapha> i can still remember when i was a kid we went to some kind of BIG trade show in Berlin and there was a company called Be of which I'd never heard and they showed off some cool operating system where they could play, like 5 videos at once[12:02:56] <rapha> never saw the thing again until some day haiku got mentioned on osnews[12:03:56] *** hdanak has quit IRC[12:05:00] <flameshadow> They had a booth at SCALE this year[12:05:08] *** Yaroze has quit IRC[12:05:29] <leszek> :)[12:06:35] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku[12:08:28] *** [Katisu] has joined #haiku[12:10:03] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[12:10:41] *** rapha has quit IRC[12:11:28] *** largo has joined #haiku[12:13:43] <largo> well, the bug certainly still appears present. :([12:17:39] *** largo has quit IRC[12:18:18] *** Hugen has joined #haiku[12:19:11] *** timezer0 has quit IRC[12:22:12] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[12:23:48] *** leszek has quit IRC[12:33:26] *** bowser__ has joined #haiku[12:34:09] *** bowser__ has quit IRC[12:40:03] *** largo has joined #haiku[12:40:25] *** vision3 has joined #haiku[12:40:28] <vision3> Hah![12:40:39] <vision3> It worked now, I think[12:40:41] <vision3> Can you hear me?[12:40:54] <largo> I can :)[12:40:55] <vision3> (rapha from before here)[12:41:10] <vision3> The Haikuware site said "Vision" was the most downloaded IRC client[12:42:10] <OmniMancer> you had to download vision :O[12:42:16] <vision3> well[12:42:44] <vision3> first tried "Bardak" and "Bowser" but none of them rly worked[12:43:23] <vision3> i wonder if ruby and firefox3 could be gotten to work under haiku, then i could actually rly use this[12:44:47] <vision3> and why are alt and ctrl swapped?[12:45:42] <OmniMancer> various reasons[12:45:46] <OmniMancer> they aren't swapped[12:45:47] <cizra> vision3: Ruby is probably easier to get working[12:45:57] <OmniMancer> just much functionality is exchanged[12:46:00] <vision3> ?![12:46:08] <OmniMancer> alt for copy paste is good for terminal![12:46:18] <OmniMancer> try it you can paste into the terminal[12:46:23] <vision3> ctrl-tab changes windows and alt-f brings up the search dialog in firefox, and you're telling me they're not swapped?[12:46:29] <OmniMancer> also ff3 needs decent cairo, so get porting![12:46:34] <vision3> heh[12:46:42] <vision3> first would need to learn C[12:46:49] <OmniMancer> correction[12:46:51] <OmniMancer> C++[12:46:55] <vision3> even worse[12:47:11] <OmniMancer> its the haiku specific parts of cairo that need fixing I believe[12:47:21] <OmniMancer> anyway the simpler way is to not want ff3[12:47:33] <vision3> hmmm ruby 1.8.4 on haikuware ... that's insanely old[12:47:34] <OmniMancer> and instead want the haiku native webkit browser they seem to be making :P[12:47:47] <OmniMancer> try building ruby, it may well just compile[12:47:54] <OmniMancer> I know falcon compiles fine[12:47:57] <vision3> er with gcc 2.95.something?[12:48:08] <OmniMancer> get a gcc2hybrid[12:48:14] <OmniMancer> and use setgcc gcc4[12:48:15] <cizra> No, why, Haiku has gcc 4.something[12:49:51] <vision3> ~> gcc --version 2.95.3-haiku-090629[12:50:56] <cizra> actually it has both[12:51:20] <OmniMancer> vision3: do you ignore me on purpose?[12:51:24] <vision3> er sorry no[12:51:37] <vision3> just used to my name showing up in YELLOW when talked to[12:52:23] <vision3> the gcc thing worked fine now[12:53:22] <OmniMancer> you get gcc4 now?[12:54:08] <vision3> yes, gcc --version responds with 4.3.3[12:54:32] <vision3> what should i use as a prefix for ruby's ./configure script?[12:54:48] <OmniMancer> can someone give me a list of the dirs in /boot/Develop/headers?[12:55:08] <OmniMancer> and I think /boot/common *should* work but is not necessarily recommended[12:55:12] <vision3> 3rdparty be bsd cpp glibc gnu os posix[12:56:03] *** BGA has joined #haiku[12:56:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o BGA[12:56:03] <vision3> hmm k /boot/common ... that seems to be in the PATH which is good[12:56:22] <vision3> the Haiku terminal feels strangely like it was a UNIX, but from what i gather it is not?[12:56:43] <BGA> vision3: The shell we use is Bash.[12:56:54] <vision3> that'd explain it[12:56:54] <BGA> But no, we are not Unix. We are just POSIX compliant.[12:57:02] <vision3> so the original BeOS didnt have a terminal at all?[12:57:12] <BGA> It did. Also bash.[12:57:23] <BGA> But it was less POSIX compliant than we are.[12:57:30] <vision3> heh ... "configure: error: cannot guess build type; you must specify one" ... so much for wanting to compile ruby[12:58:47] <vision3> i see BGA ... it is an awesome thing i'm running this on a modern-day computer anyway ... truly hope you get it to a stage where it's a serious alternative to windows or linux![12:59:38] <vision3> btw is there a setting for the file manager somewhere to have it be non-spatial? that's pretty annoying...[12:59:43] <OmniMancer> you need to hack the autoconf build system of your ruby a little[12:59:50] <BGA> vision3: This means that the BUILD system does not know about Haiku. I think you may solve that with an updated config.guess file.[12:59:51] <vision3> okay[12:59:59] <BGA> Other than that, I think Ruby has already been poorted.[13:00:02] <BGA> ported[13:00:27] <OmniMancer> probably[13:00:34] <OmniMancer> look for patches in haikuports[13:00:40] <vision3> yeah, but my goal was to see if i could do real work under Haiku, and for that I need a recent ruby ... the one on Haikuware is 1.8.4[13:00:50] <OmniMancer> also under tracker preferences turn on single window mode[13:00:52] <BGA> http://www.haiku-ports.de/packages/dev-lang/ruby/ruby-1.9.1-x86-gcc2-2009-10-28.zip[13:01:00] <OmniMancer> sigh[13:01:02] <BGA> http://ports.haiku-files.org/wiki/Downloads[13:01:05] <OmniMancer> you listen not[13:01:05] <vision3> oh that's a bit *too* recent[13:01:13] <vision3> the ruby world is strange in that regard[13:01:26] <OmniMancer> thou shalt look on haikuports[13:01:32] <vision3> sorry OmniMancer it's hard to listen to so much at once when your name doesnt highlight :)[13:01:34] * vision3 looks[13:01:54] <OmniMancer> im sure vision must have a setting for that..[13:02:02] <OmniMancer> also do you have a name other than vision3[13:02:55] <vision3> yeah but i don't want to use that for a couple of hours because when i left before there was this creepy bangladeshi guy who'd CTCP ping me all the time and ask for A/S/L and stuff[13:03:09] <vision3> like i said, i'm rapha from before[13:03:19] <OmniMancer> ah k[13:04:00] * OmniMancer just wants to be able to find you again :P[13:04:23] <cizra> .. and send you CTCP pings asking for A/S/L and stuff![13:05:20] <DDevine> ASL... I haven't heard that in years![13:05:26] <DDevine> Do kids still say that?[13:05:29] <vision3> knihtg i edom ltr otni noisiv tup ot deganam tsuj i wow[13:05:55] <vision3> wow[13:05:57] <OmniMancer> more so I don't lose the person[13:06:10] <vision3> rtl ot kcab ti hctiws tnac[13:06:16] <OmniMancer> what did you say vision3?[13:06:24] <vision3> !RORRIM[13:06:30] <DDevine> vision3: Ah yeah, you have to restart the irc client[13:06:33] <BGA> Oh... Podemos usar nossas linguas nativas aqui? :)[13:06:35] <vision3> lfor[13:06:37] <BGA> ;)[13:06:40] *** vision3 has quit IRC[13:07:19] *** vision2 has joined #haiku[13:07:21] <vision2> ah much better[13:07:32] <OmniMancer> well I exercised my backwards reading[13:07:36] <vision2> one funny OS you built there with IRC clients that write in mirror-language[13:08:10] <HeTo> the quit message wasn't mirrored[13:08:28] <vision2> good to know :-)[13:08:54] <vision2> is there some minimize-all-windows shortcut?[13:09:21] <OmniMancer> I think so[13:09:26] <OmniMancer> can't remember it though...[13:10:07] <HeTo> switchig to an empty desktop works better for me[13:10:12] <vision2> like the thing with the ctrl and alt keys ... might be practical for use in a terminal, but otherwise it's more annoying than anything[13:10:34] <HeTo> you can swap them[13:10:35] <OmniMancer> ctrl+alt+ left should move you to a new workspace[13:10:49] <OmniMancer> but I don't mind learning them that way[13:11:07] <vision2> OmniMancer: right now that's caught by VirtualBox[13:12:24] <vision2> HeTo: found it now, thanks![13:12:55] <OmniMancer> sigh[13:12:59] <vision2> this is one incredibly cool OS ... everything very clean and simple[13:13:04] <OmniMancer> then open the workspaces preflet and use that[13:13:57] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[13:14:30] <vision2> OmniMancer: sorry wasnt meant as a complaint![13:14:50] <OmniMancer> I was meaning as a work around[13:14:58] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[13:15:05] <OmniMancer> open the workspaces replicant its quite fun[13:15:12] <vision2> yeah i understand ... just you sighed and so i thought i had annoyed you which wasnt my intention[13:15:16] <OmniMancer> drag it to the desktop by the little handle too![13:15:27] <OmniMancer> I was annoyed with virtual box[13:17:03] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[13:17:11] <vision2> heheh the little hand is cool[13:17:20] <vision2> s/hand/handle[13:18:01] <vision2> Haiku strikes me as probably being more fun to use the higher the screen resolution[13:19:40] <OmniMancer> :P[13:20:07] <OmniMancer> also drag the silhouettes of the windows in the workspaces replicant around and watch the magic[13:20:13] <vision2> wow the CPU usage thing updates life ... cool[13:20:32] <vision2> ah yeah that kind of magic :)[13:20:58] <OmniMancer> I like a workspace switcher that lets you drag the windows around in real life :D[13:21:21] <vision2> a bit jerky tho under virtualbox[13:22:00] <vision2> lets see how it handles googlemail imap[13:22:07] <OmniMancer> but still responsive[13:23:34] <vision2> yeah[13:24:11] <OmniMancer> the best part is it tends to stay responsive rather than pausing all the time[13:25:44] <vision2> wierd now that the workspace switcher is open, virtualbox doesnt catch ctrl-alt-u/d/l/r anymore[13:26:00] <OmniMancer> :/[13:26:03] <OmniMancer> interesting[13:26:03] <vision2> hahahah! an OS with a built-in web server![13:26:15] <vision2> just cant find my inbox[13:26:22] <OmniMancer> :/[13:26:31] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[13:29:15] <vision2> i mean when you open "Mail" there's a button "Inbox" but it doesnt do anything[13:30:02] <CIA-50> stippi * r35759 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/power/enhanced_speedstep/frequency.cpp:[13:30:02] <CIA-50> Fixed error spotted by Axel, which I introduced in r35756. The bus value didn't[13:30:02] <CIA-50> get assigned anymore. Sorry about that![13:30:48] <OmniMancer> :/[13:30:57] <OmniMancer> I have never experimented with the mail stuff[13:31:08] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC[13:31:08] <OmniMancer> always use gmails web interface[13:31:13] <vision2> well, sooner or later it'll get Thunderbird anyhow[13:32:00] <vision2> as soon as there's Firefox 3 and some sane way to manage network connections (like NetworkManager) with working WiFi encryption, I'm gonna try to switch to this as my primary OS[13:32:33] <largo> vision2: http://mmlr.dyndns.org/[13:32:33] <BGA> vision2: I happen to be one of the developers that wrote all the mail subsystem we use.[13:32:43] <BGA> By default, emails are saved in ~/mail[13:32:45] <surrounder> vision2: networkmanager? sane? :P[13:32:57] <CIA-50> stippi * r35760 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/desklink/MediaReplicant.cpp: BView::Draw() is a no-op.[13:32:59] <OmniMancer> madness![13:33:25] <CIA-50> stippi * r35761 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/partitioning_systems/intel/PartitionMap.cpp: Fixed indentation issue in my previous commit.[13:33:32] <vision2> surrounder: networkmanager is the best thing that happened to computing since the invention of wifi[13:33:43] <surrounder> righty :D[13:34:04] <vision2> BGA: with an IMAP account, where do I see my on-server inbox then?[13:34:05] <OmniMancer> well then it can't be any good :P[13:34:30] <vision2> BGA: congrats about the "new mail" window though, it's awesome UI design, like most of the system seems to be[13:34:36] <surrounder> I see it as an extra layer of cruft on an operating system already filled with layers of cruft to be honest[13:34:47] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[13:35:06] <OmniMancer> having something to let you find and connect to wifi without command line possibly good[13:35:15] <OmniMancer> cruft bad[13:35:17][13:35:38] <BGA> vision2: IMAP has issues, unfortunately. But last time I checked, it kinda worked.[13:35:42] <BGA> Look inside ~/mail[13:35:49] <BGA> Do you see anything there?[13:35:50] <vision2> i dont see what you can dislike about a list of wifi access points and other connections[13:35:54] <vision2> nope BGA[13:36:00] <surrounder> vision2: nah, just seem to have a lot let issues with wicd :)[13:36:04] <BGA> There will probably be one directory per GMail label.[13:36:18] <BGA> Did you try to ask the mail daemon to check for new emails?[13:36:18] <surrounder> vision2: I dislike it because it interferes with the way you normally manage your (wired) networks[13:36:28] <BGA> Right click the Deskbar postbox icon.[13:36:58] <vision2> surrounder: then i got lucky or you the opposite - the most notable thing about networkmanager for me is that i dont notice it most of the time because it's just doing its job[13:37:06] <OmniMancer> surrounder: well we still need a GUI for connection to wifi networks[13:37:10] <vision2> BGA: yes i asked it to check every minute[13:37:45] <BGA> vision2: Yes, but ask it to check manually at least once.[13:37:48] <vision2> "right click the deskbar postbox icon" ... hum ... there's only a "Mail" icon[13:37:57] <BGA> I do remember a bug with IMAP where you had to do that.[13:38:01] <surrounder> vision2: well, that sounds nice indeed :)[13:38:08] *** hdanak has quit IRC[13:38:10] <BGA> I can not check it right now as I have no access to a Haiku installation. I am at work.[13:38:21] <vision2> surrounder: oh okay ... well ... when i plug in the cable it connects to the wired network ... that's what i expect[13:38:26] <BGA> Mail icon?[13:38:36] <BGA> You mean near where you see the time in the Deskbar?[13:38:46] <BGA> If not, you did not start the Mail Daemon. You should.[13:38:52] <BGA> Check teh second tab in preferences.[13:38:54] <vision2> BGA: below that, there's a list of open applications, one of which is Mail[13:38:55] <vision2> Aaaah[13:39:00] <BGA> No no no...[13:39:05] <BGA> Start the mail daemon.[13:39:12] <BGA> Than an icon will show up near the time.[13:39:23] <vision2> aaaah[13:39:25] <vision2> got it[13:39:43] <BGA> "daemon" here referes to the actual mail client (the one that connects to servers and fetches email".[13:39:49] *** mmlr_work has joined #haiku[13:39:51] <BGA> Mail is just the reader.[13:40:04] <vision2> yeah ... downloading 23 of 20106 messages[13:40:11] <BGA> There you go.[13:40:22] <vision2> slowly but steadily, yeah :)[13:40:27] <surrounder> hmm cool, was actually wondering about how to do that too :P[13:41:09] <surrounder> when Haiku boots again I'll definitly try it :) my netbook doesn't like the nightlies very much at the moment[13:41:35] <OmniMancer> night[13:41:36] <vision2> BGA: the fact that lots of things are different from what you're used to from Windows / Linux / Mac is interesting, psychology-wise. I constantly have to keep asking myself "is that something i like/dislike because what i'm used to or because of what it really IS"[13:41:39] <vision2> night OmniMancer[13:41:48] <surrounder> nn OmniMancer[13:41:59] <vision2> (where on earth is he?!)[13:42:07] <BGA> Well, in what coincerns email at least, the general concept is this:[13:42:19] <surrounder> vision2: .nz apparantly :P[13:42:49] <BGA> There is what we call mail_daemon. This does not have any interface at all and is just a background process that is responsible for connecting to servers and downloading emails for your accounts (oh, it shows the progress window, of course).[13:42:52] <vision2> oh okay surrounder :)[13:42:58] <OmniMancer> NZ[13:43:09] <BGA> Then there is the E-Mail preferences app. This is a completelly separate program where you configure your accounts.[13:43:20] <OmniMancer> it is nearly 2 in the moring[13:43:22] <BGA> Thne there is Mail, with is simply a mail reader.[13:43:26] <OmniMancer> I shall sleep now[13:43:33] <surrounder> hmmsleep <3[13:43:37] <BGA> Everything else you are used to do you do using the filesystem and the standard file browser interface.[13:43:48] <vision2> OmniMancer: i once had a server called Aotea, together with a guy from Auckland calling himself Paradon on IRC[13:43:50] <BGA> You create queries to do "folders".[13:43:56] <surrounder> I'm on call and got woken up at 02:30 and 03:30, I could use some sleep too :P[13:44:07] <BGA> You use the filwe browser so browse through your emails.[13:44:32] <vision2> BGA: that is very ancient-UNIX-y in concept, or at least sounds like it[13:44:44] <BGA> No, it is not.[13:44:54] <BGA> You use the *GRAPHICAL* file browser to do that.[13:44:59] <vision2> well, "everything is a file"[13:45:04] <vision2> (or a folder)[13:45:14] <BGA> Well, each email is a file.[13:45:22] <BGA> But I don't see what is ancient about this.[13:45:32] <BGA> This is actually a huge advantage.[13:45:39] <surrounder> it's no ancient, but I can see the unixy way in it[13:45:43] <vision2> not in a negative sense ... wrong word probably, but i'm not a native speaker[13:45:47] <OmniMancer> all clients fundamentally operate on that principle at some level :P[13:45:51] <vision2> should probably have said "original" instead of "ancient"[13:45:55] <vision2> i do see the advantages[13:46:22] <BGA> for example, to create a virtual folder that shows all your new emails, you simply create a query (using the system find tool) like this: Show me all my emails that have status New.[13:46:26] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[13:46:29] <surrounder> far easier to search your mail (grep for president :P)[13:46:44] <surrounder> BGA: that is quite cool[13:47:01] <BGA> You can also do things like: Show me all myu emails that I receveid form list X and that I did not reply to yet and are more than 5 days old.[13:47:09] <BGA> This is *VERY* powerfull.[13:47:14] <BGA> And queries are live.[13:47:27] <vision2> i'll test it in 20106 mails downloaded ;)[13:47:29] <surrounder> that sounds definitly handy[13:47:49] <BGA> Meaning that if you are looking to a query window that shows your unread emails and you read one of those, it will automatically (and immediately) be removed from that window.[13:47:54] <vision2> meanwhile, WebPositive is missing libicu-common.so and libicu-data.so[13:48:29] <vision2> i hate that when Thunderbird marks a message as spam but doesnt move it to the junk folder[13:50:25] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[13:50:53] <vision2> BGA: on slight annoyance with Mail; does the Mail Status window *have* to be on all workspaces at once without you being able to minimize it to the deskbar?[13:51:59] <mmlr_work> usually it's not on that long to be annoying[13:52:27] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[13:54:08] <vision2> niaga hceeps rorrim parc ho[13:54:12] *** vision2 has quit IRC[13:55:33] *** vision2 has joined #haiku[13:55:47] <vision2> Very funny behaviour, reversing the input text.[13:56:21] <BGA> vision2: You can hide it if you do not want to see it. But as long as it shows, it will show in all workspaces.[13:56:41] <BGA> You used to be able to change that, but someone else removed this feature.[13:56:49] <vision2> hmm[13:56:53] <vision2> :-([13:56:59] <vision2> nm found out how to hide it[13:58:03] <vision2> there should be some lobbying i guess to have the VirtualBox guys create Haiku GuestExtensions[13:59:05] *** GonoszTopi has joined #haiku[14:08:28] *** Animal-X has joined #haiku[14:08:35] *** Animal-X has quit IRC[14:15:18] *** Hugen has quit IRC[14:16:02] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[14:31:31] <vision2> bye all! and keep at it, rly awesome os![14:31:36] *** vision2 has quit IRC[14:34:42] *** alwaysGam3 has joined #haiku[14:35:10] *** murakawa has joined #haiku[14:36:02] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC[14:36:13] <murakawa> Hi,[14:37:04] *** l3thal has joined #haiku[14:52:49] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[14:55:25] *** stippi has joined #haiku[14:55:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[14:56:49] *** e-jones has quit IRC[14:57:09] *** e-jones has joined #haiku[15:02:14] *** _4pLaY has joined #haiku[15:04:21] <CIA-50> stippi * r281 /webkit/trunk/WebCore/platform/haiku/TemporaryLinkStubs.cpp: I knew Haiku has idle_time() somewhere... it's even implemented.[15:12:59] *** stippi has quit IRC[15:16:44] *** brennanos has joined #haiku[15:16:47] <brennanos> hi all[15:18:03] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[15:19:02] <Disreali> morning[15:20:52] <CIA-50> * r282 /:[15:23:48] <brennanos> if I were downloading a nightly build, would I want gcc2 gcc4 or hybrid[15:24:24] <mmlr_work> a gcc2 hybrid[15:24:52] <brennanos> ok[15:25:01] <brennanos> I will be back when its installed[15:25:08] <CIA-50> * r283 /:[15:25:15] *** brennanos has quit IRC[15:27:27] *** J-Ho has left #haiku[15:29:28] <CIA-50> stippi * r282 /webkit/trunk/WebKit/haiku/WebCoreSupport/FrameLoaderClientHaiku.cpp:[15:29:28] <CIA-50> * Don't force layout on frames in the page cache.[15:29:28] <CIA-50> * Reuse forceLayout() in forceLayoutForNonHTML().[15:29:28] <CIA-50> * Removed debug output from restoreViewState(), I've confirmed it this hook not[15:29:28] <CIA-50> important for us.[15:29:28] <CIA-50> * Added comments about eventually adding platform data to cached pages.[15:29:39] <CIA-50> stippi * r283 /webkit/trunk/WebKit/haiku/API/ (4 files): (log message trimmed)[15:29:39] <CIA-50> * Added methods for setting the default fonts and font sizes.[15:29:39] <CIA-50> * Added explicit Apply() method.[15:29:39] <CIA-50> * Removed debug output from BWebSettings::_HandleSetPersistentStoragePath().[15:29:40] <CIA-50> * Enabled the PageCache for each page, when it has been enabled globally. Makes[15:29:40] <CIA-50> going back/forward instant, unless WebCore thinks a page cannot be cached,[15:29:41] <CIA-50> then it's as fast as before (loading from memory cached resources). It does[15:30:48] <largo> mmlr_work: any reason to prefer the gcc2hybrid over the gcc4hybrid?[15:31:15] <mmlr_work> old stuff assumes a gcc2 base, so it's easier[15:31:26] <largo> gotcha.[15:34:30] *** m0ns00n has joined #haiku[15:34:33] <m0ns00n> Hello[15:34:50] <m0ns00n> I am wondering why less than 20% of the stuff I download from Haikuware works on Haiku[15:34:53] <m0ns00n> Even recent stuff[15:34:56] <m0ns00n> I just get errors[15:35:13] <m0ns00n> When do you consider the API stable enough to be reliable to compile binaries for?[15:36:04] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[15:36:41] <mmlr_work> the API is stable, but haikuware hosts a bunch of stuff without actually checking compatibility[15:37:09] <mmlr_work> it also depends on what system you have as a base and what software you download[15:37:33] <BGA> m0ns00n: Can you give some specific example?[15:37:49] <mmlr_work> some of the stuff hosted there depends on features/fixes that were introduced after the alpha1 release, hence you'd need a nightly as a base[15:37:53] *** mvfranz has joined #haiku[15:38:04] <m0ns00n> Well[15:38:06] <m0ns00n> BeBreakout[15:38:15] <m0ns00n> sim car[15:38:27] <mmlr_work> what's the issue with it?[15:38:27] <m0ns00n> various sdl games (after having installed SDL game libs)[15:38:32] <m0ns00n> they don't start[15:38:35] <m0ns00n> and crash immediately[15:38:48] <mmlr_work> what SDL libs did you install?[15:38:59] <m0ns00n> the x86 gcc 2[15:39:16] <m0ns00n> I think part of the problem is that Haiku is confusing people with gcc4/2?[15:39:16] <mmlr_work> there are numerous different versions floating around sadly[15:39:39] <mmlr_work> it's not really an issue for releases[15:39:47] <mmlr_work> they are hybrid anyway, so it doesn't really matter[15:40:42] <BGA> m0ns00n: THis is most likely a problem with SDL versions than anything else I would guess.[15:40:58] <BGA> As SDL is not part of Haiku, this is not really a Haiku problem.[15:41:18] <m0ns00n> BeBreakout is not SDL[15:41:18] <m0ns00n> :)[15:41:26] <m0ns00n> It is a beos native app.[15:41:27] <BGA> Note I am not saying something should not be done. I am just saying this does not mean our APIs are not stable.[15:41:48] <BGA> Oh... I misunderstood what you said.[15:41:53] <BGA> What is the crash with BeBreakout?[15:41:54] <m0ns00n> There are several apps[15:41:59] <m0ns00n> The minority of the apps I've tried run.[15:42:10] <mmlr_work> that'd hint at a binary compatibility problem[15:42:19] <mmlr_work> please file a bug report for that[15:42:22] <GeneralMaximus> how do i connect to my wireless network? the wireless interface doesn't appear in the Network preflet. (yes, i've run install-wifi-firmware.sh)[15:42:22] <m0ns00n> Lemme check[15:42:45] <BGA> Please post the backtrace.[15:42:47] <BGA> (privately)[15:43:03] <BGA> Let me know if you do not know how to get a backtrace.[15:43:14] <m0ns00n> I only get "...has encountered a error which prevents..."[15:43:35] <BGA> There should be a debug button in that alert.[15:43:42] <BGA> You should click it.[15:43:44] <BGA> Then type bt[15:43:47] <m0ns00n> Problem seems to be libroot[15:44:10] <m0ns00n> tcsetpgrp failed in terminal_inferior[15:44:18] <BGA> Nope. thatś notmal.[15:44:25] <BGA> Paste the bt output.[15:44:32] <m0ns00n> I can't[15:44:35] <m0ns00n> oh[15:44:35] <m0ns00n> sec[15:44:35] <mmlr_work> on haiku.pastebin.com[15:44:38] <m0ns00n> I can start vision[15:45:18] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku[15:45:31] <BGA> Duid you paste it there yet?[15:45:35] <BGA> Not seeing iot[15:45:36] <BGA> it[15:45:55] <mmlr_work> GeneralMaximus: if it doesn't show up at all it means the card wasn't detected/initialized[15:46:08] <mmlr_work> the syslog should tell you more about why that is[15:46:36] * GeneralMaximus checks the syslog[15:47:48] *** m0ns0ku has joined #haiku[15:47:48] <m0ns0ku> :)[15:47:50] <m0ns0ku> http://paste.ideaslabs.com/show/kpEzigbe2K[15:48:14] *** petterhj has quit IRC[15:48:18] *** Disreali has quit IRC[15:48:30] <mmlr_work> m0ns0ku: that's only the initial output[15:48:40] <mmlr_work> please paste the output of the "bt" command as well[15:48:44] <BGA> m0ns0ku: You need to type bt and enter on the window.[15:48:46] <BGA> And paste again.[15:50:42] <GeneralMaximus> mmlr_work: i've got several messages to the effect of "KERN: driver "broadcom43xx" added" and "KERN: devfs: reload driver "marvell88w8335" (3, 3146158)"[15:50:52] <GeneralMaximus> oops, not marvell[15:50:59] <GeneralMaximus> "KERN: devfs: reload driver "broadcom43xx" (3, 3146152)"[15:51:06] <Disreali_> vmware player is not opening the latest nightly on my system. are there changes that need to be made to the vmx file?[15:51:23] *** sprma has joined #haiku[15:51:32] <mmlr_work> GeneralMaximus: and there's no actual output from the driver?[15:51:33] <GeneralMaximus> mmlr_work: the card doesn't appear in /dev/net/, though[15:52:03] <GeneralMaximus> mmlr_work: nope, nothing[15:52:43] <mmlr_work> then it's most likely that no driver supports that specific card[15:53:07] <BGA> m0ns0ku: ?[15:53:36] <GeneralMaximus> mmlr_work: aww :([15:54:33] *** Disreali_away has joined #haiku[15:57:15] <mmlr_work> GeneralMaximus: what kind of card is it?[15:57:28] *** Disreali_ has quit IRC[15:58:05] <GeneralMaximus> mmlr_work: it's one of those Broadcom 43xx cards. 4322, iirc.[15:58:50] *** oZ1 has joined #haiku[15:58:53] <mmlr_work> updating the driver with current FreeBSD might work[15:59:12] *** oZ1 is now known as oZ][15:59:26] <GeneralMaximus> mmlr_work: you mean snagging the driver from FreeBSD?[15:59:36] <GeneralMaximus> mmlr_work: will it build fine on Haiku?[16:01:25] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[16:03:20] <mmlr_work> you'd need to apply the changes between trunk and the vendor branch[16:05:42] <GeneralMaximus> sounds scary[16:05:43] <GeneralMaximus> between the Haiku trunk and the FreeBSD repo?[16:06:21] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[16:08:38] *** mmlr_work has quit IRC[16:11:14] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[16:13:05] <Disreali_away> Is vmware player 2.5 known to have trouble with the latest nightlys?[16:13:20] *** Disreali_away is now known as Disreali[16:13:40] <oZ]> any particular reason you aren't running 3?[16:14:00] <Disreali> did not know it was avaliable[16:14:35] <Disreali> been offline for awhile. just got my system working again[16:16:33] <Disreali> anyone having success with qemu on on a vista host?[16:17:16] <oZ]> Ah, gotcha. Haiku is certainly running great on my Player 3 system, not sure about 2.5, but I would imagine it'd work. Also did well in VirtualBox, but haven't tried qemu.[16:18:12] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[16:24:08] <Disreali> thanks[16:24:13] <Disreali> later[16:24:30] * Disreali is away: AFK[16:26:23] *** fhein has joined #haiku[16:31:31] *** Andrius has quit IRC[16:32:56] *** mmadia has quit IRC[16:33:55] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[16:45:54] *** webmaven has joined #haiku[16:46:24] *** noldsel has quit IRC[16:52:20] *** marmida has joined #haiku[16:53:50] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[16:59:16] *** leszek has joined #haiku[16:59:21] <leszek> re[16:59:56] *** sprma has quit IRC[16:59:57] *** ivoire has quit IRC[16:59:57] *** ivoire has joined #haiku[17:00:12] *** murakawa has quit IRC[17:00:26] <oZ]> I'm sure this is a recurring theme in this channel, but I'm shocked and pleased at how stable Haiku is/is becoming.[17:02:27] <leszek> :)[17:05:12] <oZ]> I'm new here, and just lurking as I (re)explore the Be API, with the hope of contributing something, whether useful or useless, some time soon.[17:05:15] *** wildur has joined #haiku[17:10:17] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[17:15:27] *** sprma has joined #haiku[17:18:40] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[17:32:31] *** e-jones has quit IRC[17:32:59] *** webmaven has left #haiku[17:39:25] *** hdanak has quit IRC[17:45:53] *** The123king has joined #haiku[17:45:54] *** The123king has joined #haiku[17:46:07] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[17:47:26] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[17:48:35] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[17:49:25] *** l3thal has quit IRC[17:51:43] <CIA-50> scottmc * r623 /haikuports/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Updated ver info for nano in .opd file and an initial .bep file for apr-util (not working yet).[17:53:20] *** Stellar has quit IRC[17:53:58] *** Yaroze has quit IRC[17:54:16] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku[17:58:58] *** mmadia has quit IRC[18:03:37] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[18:04:29] *** tqh has joined #haiku[18:07:56] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[18:08:24] *** bjl_afk has quit IRC[18:10:47] *** Moiman has quit IRC[18:11:03] *** OlaHughson has joined #haiku[18:11:49] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[18:14:18] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[18:15:02] <CIA-50> stippi * r284 /webkit/trunk/WebKit/ (10 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)[18:15:03] <CIA-50> * Link against liblocale.so and load app catalog.[18:15:03] <CIA-50> * Took FontSelectionView from Haiku Fonts preflet, but almost rewrote it to[18:15:03] <CIA-50> adapt for WebPositive needs. It's now a BHandler, so that it can actually[18:15:03] <CIA-50> receive messages itself. The Fonts version is a BView which is never attached,[18:15:03] <CIA-50> and only receives messages, because the window forwards them. Implemented[18:15:04] <CIA-50> option to use separate style menu.[18:22:57] <CIA-50> stippi * r285 /webkit/trunk/WebKit/haiku/API/WebSettings.cpp: Commented a possibly irritating change from the last commit.[18:24:46] *** stippi has joined #haiku[18:24:46] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[18:25:23] *** alwaysGam3 has quit IRC[18:25:30] *** Moiman has joined #haiku[18:27:54] *** pica has joined #haiku[18:31:02] *** flameshadow has quit IRC[18:33:20] *** humdinger has quit IRC[18:35:32] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[18:36:24] *** sprma has quit IRC[18:42:44] <OlaHughson> mrr[18:45:39] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[18:47:07] * BGA will post a SCaLE/GSoC/Haiku piece on Google's open-source blog next week.[18:55:04] *** brian_ has joined #haiku[18:55:12] *** brian_ is now known as bjl[18:55:15] *** bjl is now known as bjl-[18:55:23] *** genki has joined #haiku[18:56:39] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[18:57:12] * Kokito posted a SCaLE report at: http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/koki/2010-03-03_my_impressions_scale_2010[18:57:25] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC[18:57:32] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[18:59:03] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[19:00:05] <DraX> Kokito: i get an access denied error when i try and read it[19:00:46] <Kokito> DraX, probably cache issue[19:01:11] <Kokito> are you logged in?[19:01:18] <DraX> no[19:01:42] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[19:02:17] <Kokito> content is cached for unlogged users, so it takes little a while[19:02:23] <Kokito> or just login :)[19:02:57] <DraX> don't have an account[19:03:08] <Kokito> create one[19:03:45] <Kokito> or wait :)[19:07:58] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[19:10:02] *** luroh has joined #haiku[19:14:05] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[19:15:18] *** leszek has quit IRC[19:16:28] *** adamk_ has joined #haiku[19:17:25] *** marmida has quit IRC[19:18:30] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[19:18:33] *** Colin_Finck has joined #haiku[19:18:46] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[19:22:02] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[19:23:18] *** Hugen has joined #haiku[19:23:43] *** Hugen is now known as ahaaha[19:25:13] *** Stellar has joined #haiku[19:27:04] <AlienSoldier> "A group of researchers plans to release a version of the Firefox browser that includes the built-in ability to view 3D graphics. They've integrated real-time ray tracing technology, called RT Fact, into Firefox and Webkit. Images are described using XML3D, and the browser can natively render the 3D scene."[19:27:06] <Kokito> yay! Web+ displays Japanese! thanks stippi![19:29:52] *** Andrius has quit IRC[19:33:05] <CIA-50> stippi * r286 /webkit/trunk/WebKit/haiku/WebPositive/BrowserWindow.cpp:[19:33:05] <CIA-50> Changed how auto-completion fills the choices. It doesn't remove choices with the[19:33:05] <CIA-50> same base URL anymore, but simply uses a lower priority for every less recent[19:33:05] <CIA-50> choice with the same base URL, and then sorts the result list after fetching.[19:33:05] <CIA-50> Previously, you would only get one choice for a given base URL, and that one was[19:33:05] <CIA-50> more likely a longer URL, since it was visited more recently than the start page[19:33:07] <CIA-50> of the respective site.[19:35:18] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[19:36:29] *** tqh has quit IRC[19:40:30] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[19:42:49] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[19:47:18] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[19:47:24] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[19:48:15] *** Kokito has quit IRC[19:48:18] *** The123king1 has joined #haiku[19:49:51] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[19:50:46] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[19:51:15] *** The123king has quit IRC[19:56:48] *** adamk_ has quit IRC[19:58:42] * aldeck_work is off skiing for the weekend![19:58:48] *** aldeck_work has quit IRC[19:59:44] *** n9986 has joined #haiku[20:03:23] <kirilla> nice[20:04:52] <kirilla> bbl[20:04:54] *** kirilla has quit IRC[20:05:37] *** Ingenu_ has joined #haiku[20:08:43] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[20:08:43] *** Ingenu_ is now known as Ingenu[20:09:11] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[20:09:36] <kirilla> Kokito:[20:09:51] <Kokito> yes kirilla[20:09:59] <kirilla> Kokito: I've been thinking[20:10:06] <kirilla> surprise! ;)[20:10:25] <kirilla> .. recently about solicting donations[20:10:25] <Kokito> good that you think :)[20:10:33] <kirilla> from orgs and coms[20:11:22] * Kokito listens[20:11:44] <kirilla> imagine if we could lure "the company that killed BeOS" (even some local branch of it) to donate to Haiku! photoshoot opportunity for them.. some open-source friendlyness.. and an awesome news story! :)[20:11:46] <cizra> aoeuaoeuups[20:11:46] <cizra> aoeu[20:12:08] <kirilla> perhaps a bitter pill for the community? :))[20:13:04] <Kokito> I suppose you are referring to M$, in which case I am pretty sure it would raise some eyebrows[20:13:26] <kirilla> Kokito: but mainly, seeing the progress made when having our core devs be able to work full time, wouldn't it be super if we could raise cash from outside our current community![20:13:35] <kirilla> indeed[20:13:54] <Kokito> it would definitely be great if Haiku could get corporate funding[20:14:08] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[20:14:14] <kirilla> some big netbook maker.. like asus perhaps[20:14:16] <Kokito> it's a very hard sell though[20:14:29] <Kokito> at least at this point[20:14:36] <kirilla> yup[20:14:44] <Kokito> when R1 is out, the story may be different[20:15:06] <kirilla> but, some "real" tech company might want to invest in relations with opensource programmers, via investing in the projects.. like Google does[20:15:09] <helf> getting a preinstallation deal with a netbook maker would be awesome[20:15:31] <oZ]> I think that would be double-likely as the ARM port progresses.[20:15:52] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[20:16:00] <Kokito> there may be a better likelyhood of that happening with smaller companies that sell hardware with linux[20:16:21] <Kokito> I am thinking companies like zareason, system76, etc.[20:16:58] <helf> Never heard of any of them :p[20:17:04] <kirilla> me neither[20:17:44] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[20:18:10] <Kokito> they are relatively small vendors[20:18:17] <kirilla> truly large companies might have pocket-change which may be a fortune to us at this point[20:18:22] <Kokito> but open source friendly[20:18:53] <DraX> Kokito: great post[20:18:56] *** pica is now known as flameshadow[20:19:18] <Kokito> kirilla, big companies want a business case before they open their wallet[20:19:53] *** judgen has joined #haiku[20:21:05] <Kokito> thanks DraX[20:21:42] <kirilla> what this project has accomplished so far is evidence of true talent, and reaching out to such talent should hopefully be worth some small donation[20:22:57] <kirilla> would it hurt the brand to solicit for donations from the fortune 500?[20:23:13] <Kokito> kirilla, if we had sponsorship packages, it would be easier to approach companies[20:23:33] <AlienSoldier> Kokito i would try greenpeace. BeOS was always able to run on obsolete machine before mozilla that single required big memory and cpu to be usable, with a native browser haiku could still run well on a 450Mhz machine with just 128M[20:23:37] <kirilla> something quid-pro-quo you mean?[20:24:03] <kirilla> soon we can sell WebPositive space to Google ;)[20:24:19] <oZ]> That's an excellent point.[20:24:27] <Kokito> yes kirilla[20:24:33] <kirilla> bookmarks == cash[20:25:20] <kirilla> or pennies :P[20:25:21] <Kokito> kirilla, I mentioned to BGA about suing search as a source of revenue; he said we did not have the volume[20:25:49] <kirilla> yeah..[20:26:09] <Kokito> we would need to finish the browser first :)[20:26:40] <drano> i wish it was not called webpositive[20:26:52] <Kokito> "we" being figure of speech, of course :)[20:27:04] <kirilla> it'll do for now :P[20:27:17] <kirilla> Hawaii wasn't too bad[20:27:24][20:27:37] <drano> hawaii is a good name yeah[20:28:26] <AlienSoldier> webpositive is perfect for me[20:29:20] <oZ]> I think it's a good, neutral name with some homage to the past without overdoing it.[20:29:28] <drano> i don't think there needs to be any homage[20:29:40] <oZ]> I consider it a side benefit, not a target.[20:29:41] *** bradct has joined #haiku[20:30:12] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[20:30:26] <AlienSoldier> ho, and i also forgot Daniel Langlois (founder of softimage and famous tech philantropist here)[20:31:06] <Kokito> the funding thing, I think it may be a good topic to bring up on the haiku-inc list[20:31:07] <surrounder> the name, is well...positive :) that's nice, and it might bring a smile to the faces of old BeOS users :) think it's nice![20:31:43] <kirilla> like .. eh.. BeHappy[20:31:58] <drano> it just doesn't seem serious enough[20:32:08] <surrounder> that instantly makes me think of a burger, dunno why :P[20:32:09] <Kokito> keeping a somewhat subtle connection with BeOS has a positive side effect, so I think Web+ was a good choice[20:32:24] *** saivert has quit IRC[20:32:31] <drano> like "look at our wacky OS that tries to hold on to all of this old stuff for whatever reason"[20:32:40] <AlienSoldier> plus you know just from the name it have to be a brower, unlike safari[20:33:07] <drano> chrome[20:33:07] <drano> firefox[20:33:09] <surrounder> drano: I don't think BeOS ever had the reputation of being a wacky OS[20:33:15] <oZ]> Well, if we talk about holding on to old stuff, we can talk about the window decorations, the deskbar anchoring, single user, and so on.[20:33:25] <drano> that's not the same[20:33:47] <kirilla> maybe we could call it Supersize[20:33:49] <kirilla> heh[20:34:11] <AlienSoldier> or royal with cheeze[20:34:14] <oZ]> Chicken McBrowser[20:34:17] <surrounder> lol[20:34:55] <kirilla> fishfinger[20:35:04] <AlienSoldier> McLovin[20:35:07] <jmayfield> webinator[20:35:23] <oZ]> hoarsesquirrel[20:35:55] <bradct> is there a process manager in haiku? ive got a runaway program i need to terminate[20:36:04] <kirilla> bradct: ctrl-alt-del[20:36:07] <jmayfield> Webosynclastic Infundibulum[20:36:14] <surrounder> haha[20:36:23] <kirilla> bradct: there's also a little icon in Deskbar called processcontroller[20:36:35] *** Barrett has quit IRC[20:37:04] <AlienSoldier> i wonder if Slayer still work in haiku[20:37:16] <kirilla> Slayer is a good name ;)[20:37:24] <bradct> kirilla, thanks, sorry for the lame noobish questions hah[20:37:33] <kirilla> bradct: np :)[20:39:03] *** saivert has joined #haiku[20:39:21] <kirilla> bbl[20:39:23] *** kirilla has quit IRC[20:40:47] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[20:43:04] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[20:43:12] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[20:47:06] *** Knutsi has joined #haiku[20:48:10] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[20:49:25] *** Knutsi has quit IRC[20:49:45] *** Knutsi has joined #haiku[20:53:55] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[20:59:51] <Kokito> http://haikuzone.net/files/temp/2010-03-05_webpositive-jp.png[21:01:12] <AlienSoldier> render quite well[21:02:54] <drano> that looks really nice[21:03:11] <drano> except for the slashdot part[21:04:19] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[21:04:23] <surrounder> looks good![21:04:53] <Kokito> yes, rendering is in fact pretty good[21:05:30] <Kokito> what Slasdot part drano?[21:05:54] <drano> you know, the part with slashdot in it[21:06:31] <Kokito> what's wrong with it? looks fine here (unless it is a joke, and I am not getting it)[21:07:43] <drano> it's a joke[21:11:21] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[21:11:26] *** Stellar has quit IRC[21:16:13] <Kokito> drano, I don't particularly dislike slashdot[21:16:27] <drano> alrighty[21:23:34] *** BGA has quit IRC[21:24:27] *** BGA has joined #haiku[21:26:59] *** orbframe has joined #haiku[21:31:41] *** tqh has joined #haiku[21:32:24] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[21:32:46] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o BGA[21:33:52] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku[21:34:59] *** fhein has quit IRC[21:36:28] <Knutsi> Haiku is so so snappy... feels wonderful to use it simply due to it's speed, and never getting in the way. Whatever you do with it in the future, don't loose this aspect of it. Just 0.10 for you there after using it for a full day (:[21:38:02] *** orbframe has quit IRC[21:39:35] *** mmadia has quit IRC[21:39:52] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[21:40:08] <kirilla> :)[21:41:13] <tqh> yeah, but we are gonna add bloat as a feature in r2 ;)[21:43:17] *** BGA has quit IRC[21:43:26] *** BGA has joined #haiku[21:44:16] *** BGA has left #haiku[21:44:47] <oZ]> lol.[21:44:49] <oZ]> TODO: bloat[21:44:53] <kirilla> "plans within plans"[21:45:52] <HeTo> tqh: just make it a setting defaulting to off :-P[21:46:48] <kirilla> kitty says: set to fluff plz![21:47:05] <Knutsi> increasing entropy is a feature, not a bug ;)[21:47:38] <tqh> HeTo, but that will disable all the shiny things, which is the other feature.[21:47:41] *** bjl- has quit IRC[21:48:12] <jmayfield> FIXME: not enough bloat[21:51:11] *** mmadia has quit IRC[21:51:22] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[21:51:30] * JonathanThompson fixes jmayfield so he doesn't reproduce into bloat[21:55:57] *** The123king1 has quit IRC[21:59:21] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[21:59:29] *** Knutsi has quit IRC[22:03:03] *** PasNox has quit IRC[22:03:51] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[22:04:14] *** PasNox has quit IRC[22:06:03] <largo> Kokito: how do you have Japanese set up on your system? :/ I got it showing up in BeZilla, but not Web+. :([22:07:14] <largo> should I just try the latest build and it might magically work? ;)[22:07:48] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[22:09:34] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC[22:10:13] *** PasNox has quit IRC[22:10:24] *** mmlr_mc has joined #haiku[22:10:28] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[22:10:46] *** PasNox has quit IRC[22:10:59] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[22:11:42] *** PasNox has quit IRC[22:13:47] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[22:15:02] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[22:16:28] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[22:16:40] *** oco has joined #haiku[22:17:06] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[22:17:26] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[22:23:06] *** RedNifre has joined #haiku[22:23:25] <RedNifre> hi![22:23:34] <RedNifre> Does Haiku have a standard character encoding?[22:23:38] <RedNifre> if so, which one?[22:23:42] <flameshadow> UTF8[22:23:51] <RedNifre> horray! :)[22:25:09] <RedNifre> And what about multiboot? Is there a boot manager that recognizes both Haiku, Ubuntu and Win7?[22:25:27] <RedNifre> (My Ubuntu Install did not find the installed Haiku "No OS found")[22:25:32] <kirilla> RedNifre: you usually chainboot Haiku[22:25:36] <flameshadow> Haiku's boot loader plays very well with others[22:26:18] <kirilla> RedNifre: there's a tool called "makebootable" which adds a 1st stage Haiku loader at the start of the partition[22:27:11] <kirilla> RedNifre: Haiku's MBR bootloader (aka bootman) can at least chainload any primary partition off the primary disk[22:27:25] <RedNifre> Hm, I guess I'm better off installing Haiku on a separate computer.[22:27:28] <kirilla> RedNifre: as long as those partitions have proper bootcode[22:27:46] <kirilla> RedNifre: Haiku can be chainloaded easily from Grub[22:28:35] <kirilla> RedNifre: the Haiku live CD sets up a Haiku partition with proper boot code so it can be loaded from Grub, so no worries[22:28:51] <kirilla> if you install, that is[22:29:33] <RedNifre> Is there a list of things that work well with the current haiku alpha? So far I noticed that I can surf the web. Is there other cool stuff, like OpenOffice and printing?[22:29:52] <kirilla> RedNifre: get a recent nightly instead.. the alpha 1 is way old[22:30:07] <RedNifre> Right. But where can I check what's possible atm?[22:30:10] <kirilla> http://www.haiku-files.org/[22:30:26] <RedNifre> I consider installing Haiku on an old desktop, since it boots so fast.[22:30:36] <Kokito> largo, I am actually cheating. :)[22:30:40] <kirilla> there's no list of tasks, hardware, etc afaik[22:31:07] <Kokito> using a special built for that screenshot[22:31:08] <kirilla> RedNifre: there's no flash or java, if you need those[22:31:39] <largo> Kokito: ah. :'([22:31:40] <kirilla> best way to check if you hardware is supported is to try it[22:31:47] <RedNifre> That's not the question.[22:32:07] <RedNifre> The question is if it makes sense to actually use Haiku as an OS already.[22:32:34] <RedNifre> Bare HTML is good, that way I can check email on that computer.[22:32:51] <RedNifre> is there any office stuff yet, or just a text editor?[22:33:31] <CIA-50> anevilyak * r287 /webkit/trunk/HOWTOBUILD.txt: Remove now-obsolete workaround from build instructions.[22:33:38] <RedNifre> Is there anyone here who actually uses Haiku seriously, or do you just install it for testing purposes?[22:34:04] <tqh> Kokito, great writeup about Scale btw.[22:34:48] <Kokito> thanks tqh :)[22:34:56] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[22:35:06] <tqh> RedNifre, I think google docs is the only office app option atm[22:35:21] <kirilla> RedNifre: I read my email and do most browsing in Haiku[22:36:03] <mmlr_mc> I know a few of us use it as their sole OS[22:36:11] <mmlr_mc> I do at least[22:36:34] <kirilla> I mean, I keep my email, files, history, everything in a real Haiku system[22:36:35] <mmlr_mc> really pretty much depends on what you usually do[22:37:29] <RedNifre> I wouldn't use it as my primary system, but if I have guests they could use it to quickly check email and www.[22:37:42] <kirilla> I still cross-build Haiku from linux though[22:38:36] <RedNifre> Thanks, I'll just try it and see what happens.[22:38:43] <RedNifre> Good night everyone![22:38:53] <kirilla> night RedNifre![22:38:59] *** RedNifre has left #haiku[22:39:08] *** bjl- has joined #haiku[22:40:02] <kirilla> haiku for guests.. that reminds me of installing Ubuntu for a friend, only to have him go straight home to download and install a pirated windows 7[22:40:11] <kirilla> people and habits[22:40:17] <Kokito> LOL[22:41:51] <largo> I personally want to get away from Windows for ideological reasons.[22:42:04] <largo> and Ubuntu (and Linux in general) just feel too haphazard.[22:42:13] <largo> I like the cohesive and unified feel of Haiku.[22:42:19] <largo> it's clean, consistent, simple etc.[22:43:28] <jmayfield> funny how so much of this could be pasted from irc sessions from 1998..same old same old[22:46:34] <drano> 2010 is the year of the haiku desktop[22:46:44] <DraX> *yawn*[22:46:52] <jmayfield> heh[22:47:59] *** adamk_ has joined #haiku[22:49:14] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[22:50:16] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[22:50:54] <DDevine> kirilla: If you installed Ubuntu for me, I would rather Windows 7 (or Fedora, Debian, Arch...)[22:51:43] <kirilla> yeah, me too, but I would have opted for a free/open Linux over a pirated and cracked Windows[22:51:59] <DDevine> But yeah, I used to rip everything I could but these days I have pretty much grown out of it.[22:52:06] <largo> I'm in Windows 7 right now.[22:52:14] <DDevine> It just doesn't seem quite right.[22:52:39] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[22:52:40] <DDevine> I still download TV and a little bit of music but rarely cracked programs anymore.[22:52:46] <largo> my wifi seems to have shaky support in Open Source in general.[22:53:02] <largo> it's almost unusable in Haiku now after the latest driver updates... it actually got worse. :([22:53:23] <largo> and in Linux it at least doesn't hard lock the system, but it does intermittently stall or just run terribly slow in general.[22:53:27] *** ahaaha has quit IRC[22:53:28] <largo> works peachy in Windows. :P[22:53:30] <DDevine> largo: I have never had Wifi troubles at all in Linux and that's not because I was particularly careful choosing hardware eigher.[22:53:59] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[22:54:19] <DDevine> I really have to get off the computer and get ready to go to work.[22:54:22] <largo> DDevine: this particular cards seems to have problem.[22:54:32] <largo> *s[22:55:04] <DDevine> I have to complete a 3 day Kaspersky AV course... It was free training...[22:56:00] <largo> :o[22:56:02] <largo> good luck :)[22:56:08] <kirilla> godspeed ;)[22:56:32] <DDevine> Today is the last day of it.[22:57:04] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[22:59:37] *** stippi has quit IRC[23:02:29] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[23:05:45] *** PasNox has quit IRC[23:07:26] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[23:09:57] <CIA-50> kirilla * r35762 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/mail/MailWindow.cpp: Partial clean-up.[23:11:11] * OlaHughson sits down and helps spiritually, and waits for final release :3[23:11:17] *** tqh has quit IRC[23:11:35] <OlaHughson> Alpha had crashed(?) [Debug] many times, for instance - playing a CD[23:12:40] <kirilla> OlaHughson: have you tried the more recent nightlies? http://www.haiku-files.org/[23:12:41] *** Colin_Finck is now known as Colin_Finck|afk[23:13:08] <OlaHughson> kirilla, i can always download, You are true, but i have no blank CDs. But I will try ;)[23:13:23] <kirilla> OlaHughson: do you have Haiku installed?[23:13:27] <oZ]> mount the raw image. :)[23:13:31] <OlaHughson> yes[23:13:38] <kirilla> if so you may be able to do ^^^[23:13:49] <OlaHughson> Hm,m?[23:14:02] <kirilla> mount the raw image and copy new files into place[23:14:16] <OlaHughson> ;o[23:14:18] <OlaHughson> :d[23:14:42] <mmadia> kirilla : that'll go boom.[23:14:48] <kirilla> preferrably to another partition though, as the system might go a little confused if the kernel has its add-ons folder pulled from under it[23:15:01] <kirilla> mmadia: how about if one renames system to system_old first?[23:15:05] <oZ]> Or even use Installer to copy from the image to the alpha. Admittedly, mine exploded the first time, but doing it over again on next boot worked great.[23:15:15] <oZ]> kirilla: not an a booted system, I assume. :)[23:15:27] <mmadia> axel might do something like that, but i've never tried.[23:15:39] *** RedNifre has joined #haiku[23:15:40] <kirilla> true, boot from existing alpha CD, desktop mode, mount new raw image, and copy/replace HD install[23:15:40] <oZ]> I'm hardcore[23:15:48] <oZ]> (n00b)[23:15:54] <OlaHughson> actually, I always wanted to use BeOS :) So i amk happy to see Haiku :3[23:16:02] <RedNifre> hey again. This site confuses me: http://www.haiku-files.org/vmware/ Which of these images is best for me?[23:16:17] <kirilla> hi RedNifre[23:16:44] <kirilla> the raw images can be written (e.g. with dd) to a usb stick[23:16:45] <RedNifre> I'm currently running Ubuntu and want to use virtualbox to check out the most recent Haiku build. But I don't understand http://www.haiku-files.org/vmware/[23:16:50] <oZ]> I use gcc4hybrid.[23:17:01] <RedNifre> What does that "hybrid" mean?[23:17:11] <oZ]> Includes libraries in the other gcc version for compatibility reasons.[23:17:18] <RedNifre> This is the first time I use virtualbox.[23:17:28] <RedNifre> I don't want to compile anything using Haiku.[23:17:30] <oZ]> Though I, personally, am not entirely sure if gcc2hybrid or gcc4hybrid is better.[23:17:42] <oZ]> If you're not using old Be apps, I assume it doesn't matter too much.[23:17:54] <RedNifre> Alright, then I use the most recent build.[23:17:55] <OlaHughson> i do not use, i has never used it^^[23:18:10] <Kokito> RedNifre, if I am not mistaken, for virtualbox, you use the CD images to install from[23:18:20] <kirilla> RedNifre: from a practical POV, hybrid enables having a few extra optional software packages available that need a gcc4 system[23:18:31] <HeTo> Kokito: Virtualbox can read VMware images[23:18:47] <oZ]> Oh, yeah, I also did an ISO install in Virtualbox, but that's just because I wanted to see an install. :)[23:19:00] <OlaHughson> HeTo, I can read books :o[23:19:09] <OlaHughson> And newspapers![23:19:24] <kirilla> woot! ;)[23:19:25] <Kokito> HeTo, I did not know that[23:19:32] <RedNifre> I'm not an OS expert and just want to try haiku. I already installed it on somebody else's PC, but I had to remove it, so I want to try it in a VirtualBox.[23:19:49] <oZ]> I'm out![23:19:51] *** oZ] has quit IRC[23:19:58] *** impy has quit IRC[23:20:21] <largo> I was told that the gcc2hybrid was better if you're going to be running old Be apps.[23:20:25] <largo> I use gcc4hybrid.[23:20:44] <mmadia> gcc2hybrid is better... it's the official release style.[23:21:07] *** Colin_Finck|afk has quit IRC[23:21:17] <largo> your options are: gcc4 alone, gcc2 alone, gcc4 with support for binaries from 2, or gcc2 with support for binaries from 4.[23:21:22] <largo> at least that's how I understand it.[23:21:39] <RedNifre> So the Hybrid is the "One size fits all" release? I'll take that.[23:25:08] <mmlr_mc> take a gcc2hybrid[23:25:17] <mmlr_mc> always take that[23:25:25] <mmlr_mc> it just has the most exposure possible[23:25:52] <RedNifre> exposure?[23:25:59] <RedNifre> What's that? (English is not my first language)[23:26:17] <mmlr_mc> as in is best tested due to being wide spread[23:26:47] *** Kokito has quit IRC[23:26:53] <RedNifre> The hybrid.zip seems to be corrupt.[23:26:56] <RedNifre> Ah, that's good.[23:27:13] <mmlr_mc> and since the official releases are going to be gcc2hybrid it avoids trouble[23:27:38] <RedNifre> does virtualbox eat the zip-file, or should I extract whatever is inside?[23:27:54] <RedNifre> (cause I can't extract and don't know if that's intended)[23:28:15] <mmlr_mc> it's supposed to be extracted[23:28:50] <OlaHughson> good it has a screenshot tool[23:28:51] <OlaHughson> http://simbaspaws.org/olahughson/rozne/pulpit/screenshot1.png[23:28:57] <RedNifre> Okay, then I have do download it again...[23:29:30] <CIA-50> kirilla * r35763 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/mail/ (Settings.cpp Settings.h): Settings class. See TODO comment in MailApp.h[23:29:52] <OlaHughson> btw, it fails[23:29:59] <OlaHughson> i have a Celeron . not Pentium IV[23:30:27] <RedNifre> test[23:30:51] *** RedNifre has quit IRC[23:31:40] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[23:33:28] <OlaHughson> Haiku used my built-in sound card. Too bad it don;t haves the drivers fotr my sb[23:34:11] <adamk_> OlaHughson, There's always OSS.[23:34:17] <OlaHughson> hmm?[23:34:57] <kirilla> is OSS available as an optional package?[23:35:08] <adamk_> OpenSound. It's a 3rd party collection of sound drivers. Cross platform. Originally developed on/for linux, available for FreeBSD, and even Haiku.[23:35:12] <adamk_> kirilla, Yes, though it's an older version iirc.[23:35:29] <adamk_> And it will crash your machine if you have a SB Live![23:35:57] <kirilla> isn't sb live supported by haiku without oss though?[23:36:06] <OlaHughson> adamk_, sb LIVE! 24bit[23:36:26] <kirilla> I think mine worked, at least it used to[23:36:41] <adamk_> OlaHughson, Yeah, that's not an emu10k1 sound card, so it should be safe.[23:36:59] <adamk_> kirilla, I've tried OSS on two machines with emu10k1 cards. It crashed the kernel on both.[23:37:25] <adamk_> Non-emu10k1 cards that are labelled as Live! cards are probably fine.[23:37:58] <OlaHughson> it;s actually audigy but marketed as live[23:38:12] <adamk_> OlaHughson, It's really not either, imo.[23:38:24] <kirilla> I suppose it would happen currently for any card supported by both OSS and Haiku - them fighting over the hardware and getting all tangled up[23:38:24] <adamk_> The only Live! cards are emu10k1 cards in my eyes.[23:38:37] <adamk_> kirilla, Not if you remove the native driver, as I did.[23:38:42] <kirilla> true[23:38:52] <adamk_> kirilla, It just crashes both machines.[23:39:14] *** Andrius has quit IRC[23:39:54] <adamk_> However OSS is the only way I can get audio from my on-board HDA at home.[23:40:53] <kirilla> better than not having sound I suppose[23:40:58] <adamk_> True :-)[23:41:36] <kirilla> does it affect latencies or anything about the system?[23:41:47] <kirilla> I have gotten the impression its a bit large, oss[23:41:48] <adamk_> The downside is that I can't have an SB Live! in my machine and use the HDA in Haiku as the HDA requires OSS which, in turn, crashes my machine if I have the Live! plugged in.[23:41:52] <adamk_> kirilla, Not that I noticed.[23:41:59] <kirilla> k[23:42:36] <kirilla> I might want to try it on this fujitsu-siemens G31M quad thing. Don't think the HDA is working natively with Haiku[23:42:53] <HeTo> I thought a system for determining which driver to use for a device was made around the alpha release[23:43:16] <adamk_> HeTo, Could be, I guess. I haven't tried that.[23:43:21] * OlaHughson uses Haiku on : Celeron 2.2Ghz, GF FX 5200, SB Live! 24bit, Maxtor 80GB, NEC DVD+/-RWDL[23:43:25] <kirilla> maybe oss hasn't been made to use that system yet[23:43:25] *** mvfranz has quit IRC[23:44:06] <kirilla> OlaHughson: that's almost exactly like my secondary box[23:44:20] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[23:44:22] <OlaHughson> ^^[23:44:50] <kirilla> great system, bx440 iirc[23:45:43] <kirilla> or did I remember that wrong[23:46:37] <kirilla> gotta sleep, later all![23:46:43] *** kirilla has quit IRC[23:47:15] *** PasNox has quit IRC[23:48:12] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[23:49:47] <adamk_> Haiku supports my hardware rather well. I just wish there was better support for my radeon.[23:53:34] *** urnenfeld has quit IRC[23:54:29] *** mmlr_mc has quit IRC[23:58:32] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku[23:59:24] *** OlaHughson has quit IRC[23:59:26] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[23:59:45] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[23:59:59] *** mvfranz has joined #haiku