[00:04:01] *** AlexFera has quit IRC
[00:18:48] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[00:19:11] *** PathagenX has quit IRC
[00:19:16] <ver> well, in BeBook, it says IsReadable and IsWritable methods on BFile: "Note that these functions don't query the actual file to check permissions, they only tell you what the access request was when the BFile object was initialized." which makes me ask.. "Why not?"
[00:20:36] *** miqlas has quit IRC
[00:20:43] *** yourpalal has quit IRC
[00:21:00] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC
[00:21:04] <ver> because other than using BNode's GetStat and munging the flags: fReadOnly = !((getuid() == st.st_uid && (S_IWUSR & st.st_mode)) || (getgid() == st.st_gid && (S_IWGRP & st.st_mode)) || (S_IWOTH & st.st_mode)) (which to me looks sorta dirty) there isn't a simple way to check if a file has its 'w' bit unset.
[00:21:22] *** aldeck has joined #haiku
[00:21:22] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck
[00:23:21] <mmlr_mc> performance considerations or lazyness
[00:23:28] <mmlr_mc> more likely lazyness
[00:23:56] <ver> haha well, that said, i don't think having the two respective functions actually query permissions would break any applications
[00:24:05] <leszek> n8@all
[00:24:11] *** luroh has quit IRC
[00:24:16] *** leszek has quit IRC
[00:24:16] <ver> leszek: before you go, want to test this patch?
[00:24:29] <ver> or do you not have a builtroot sorted?
[00:25:55] <ver> here it is, if anybody wants to try it out: http://osgrid.foxmoxie.net/~doneill/stylededit-check-RO.patch (against current SVN)
[00:26:36] <ver> mmlr_mc: would you suggest i move these changes into IsReadable/IsWritable, or is the idea to keep things BeOS compatible?
[00:26:51] <ver> ie, follow BeBook literally
[00:27:07] <mmlr_mc> well, as you said I don't think it would actually break apps
[00:27:23] <ver> i'm just concerned about deviating from the documentation :p
[00:27:25] <mmlr_mc> not in a way they weren't broken before anyway
[00:27:54] <ver> well, Pe for example would have an extra check in that case, but it would still be binary compatible
[00:28:25] <ver> and as leszek pointed out other apps simply don't do the check as it stands, so in effect i think it would FIX apps
[00:30:01] <mmlr_mc> yeah, because otherwise they'd say IsWriteable() -> great, just write ahead
[00:30:19] <mmlr_mc> indeed I wasn't even aware of the shortcomming of these
[00:30:33] <mmlr_mc> I would've expected them to do exactly these checks
[00:36:04] *** stippi has quit IRC
[00:37:01] <ver> there doesn't seem to be an error specific to a file being read only, should i add one, or use B_READ_ONLY_DEVICE?
[00:37:30] <mmlr_mc> B_NOT_ALLOWED would fit
[00:37:35] <ver> alrighty
[00:41:05] *** kmargar has joined #haiku
[00:41:22] *** Xbertl has quit IRC
[00:41:27] *** markos_ is now known as Guest59993
[00:41:34] *** kmargar is now known as markos_
[00:44:11] *** Guest59993 has quit IRC
[00:45:21] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[00:47:03] *** PasNox has quit IRC
[00:48:07] <ver> my mistake, it just returns bool anyway :)
[00:49:19] *** PasNox has joined #haiku
[00:50:02] *** DBAlex has joined #haiku
[00:53:19] *** MattLacey has joined #haiku
[00:53:50] <MattLacey> no Stippi?
[00:54:02] <MattLacey> wanted to say how impressed I am with WebPositive
[00:54:12] <ver> it really is awesome
[00:54:24] <MattLacey> seems very stable, just used it to download about 3 different IRC clients before I managed to get one to work :)
[00:54:37] <mmadia> what's wrong with Vision?
[00:54:46] <MattLacey> I'm using vision now :)
[00:54:59] <MattLacey> it wouldn't connect at first, said some USER info was missing when I tried to connect to freenode
[00:55:03] <MattLacey> I restarted it though and it's fine now
[00:55:32] <MattLacey> Bowser won't let me add any nicks to it's list, and won't let me connect without any Nicks in the list
[00:55:55] <OmniMancer> :(
[00:56:46] <ver> i wonder what happens if i replace libbe.so 'on the fly'...
[00:56:50] <MattLacey> I'm not sure if that's a bug with Haiku or just with Bowser
[00:57:27] <ver> MattLacey: probably haiku, bowser works on r5 :/  i suppose it depends a lot on version also, though.
[00:57:33] <MattLacey> what's the best way to do Haiku dev with a virtual machine? use one stable build to do all your coding and building and just build images?
[00:57:58] <ver> that's how i do it, but with the svnroot.
[00:58:02] <ver> and qemu
[00:59:05] <ver> i'm impressed with the networking speed on haiku, in qemu SCP from host to guest is... amazingly fast.  1.2MBps?  r5 could *never* hit that on native hardware.
[00:59:09] <CIA-50> anevilyak * r35731 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/ (interface/TextView.cpp tracker/PoseView.cpp):
[00:59:09] <CIA-50> Remove Tracker's special DnD handling. Instead, BTextView/BTextControl now
[00:59:09] <CIA-50> honors drag messages containing entry refs and resolves the path of the first
[00:59:09] <CIA-50> one contained. Will work on a more sophisticated solution that would allow
[00:59:09] <CIA-50> optionally extracting the file text instead via right click drag context menu
[00:59:09] <CIA-50> when I have more time.
[00:59:13] <largo> mmadia: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2005-December/thread.html#59168  if you think that's relevant you might pass that on as well. it's taken from http://sources.zabbadoz.net/freebsd/lor/42.html
[00:59:39] <MattLacey> I'm running in VirtualBox in OSX atm
[00:59:44] <MattLacey> seems great apart from the mouse wheel
[00:59:58] <MattLacey> moving that just moves the mouse cursor up or down by a fixed distance with each click
[01:00:15] <ver> hehe that's pretty cute actually
[01:00:17] <mmadia> noted largo.  thanks.
[01:00:19] <MattLacey> I've got Haiku running native on another machine but until the wireless stuff matures it's not that useful
[01:01:22] <ver> i actually just noticed the wireless stuff.  that's a sign of the times, to me, that haiku is in the big leagues.
[01:03:15] *** diogen has joined #haiku
[01:03:22] <MattLacey> definitely :)
[01:03:35] <MattLacey> it's doing super well, just don't want to turn off encryption on my router ;)
[01:03:50] <MattLacey> though I do have two so I might open one and use mac restrictions
[01:03:58] *** diogen has quit IRC
[01:03:58] <MattLacey> just have to get round to doing it though!
[01:04:04] <DraX> i actually talked to bosii the other day
[01:04:15] <DraX> and he was going to look into the stuff i need to get wpa_supplicant ported
[01:04:20] <DraX> the notification bits
[01:04:26] <OmniMancer> yay
[01:04:27] <MattLacey> cool
[01:04:31] <DraX> i gave him what i'd done so far
[01:04:31] <MattLacey> that'll be good
[01:04:43] <MattLacey> esp with a nice front end - had a bugger of a time setting that up on Ubuntu a few years back
[01:04:44] <DraX> and told him what i thought needed to happen
[01:04:50] <OmniMancer> you should poke him until he does it :P
[01:04:56] <DraX> he's busy with thesis
[01:04:59] <MattLacey> what's the deal with Java these dyas
[01:05:01] <MattLacey> ?
[01:05:16] <DraX> haven't seen any activity in a month or so
[01:05:18] <DraX> :/
[01:05:24] <OmniMancer> make him change his thesis to being on the subject of haiku's wpa support
[01:05:34] <DraX> OmniMancer: well his thesis is about haiku wifi
[01:05:36] <OmniMancer> java is evil
[01:05:40] <DraX> java is necessary
[01:05:50] <OmniMancer> then make him fix the wpa for his thesis!
[01:06:01] <OmniMancer> java should be made unnecessary!
[01:06:08] <MattLacey> lol
[01:06:09] <MattLacey> I agree
[01:06:11] <mmadia> DraX : yeah, he'll be busy till the end of april.
[01:06:12] <MattLacey> I can't stand java
[01:06:17] <MattLacey> unfortunatley I have to use Eclipse for work
[01:06:29] <OmniMancer> you SHALL use something else!
[01:06:36] <MattLacey> can't :(
[01:06:39] <MattLacey> force.com development
[01:06:40] <OmniMancer> SHALL
[01:06:41] <DraX> MattLacey: i do java for work, but not in eclipse
[01:06:50] <DraX> if i had to use eclipse i'd cry
[01:06:52] <MattLacey> I need java to run eclipse :)
[01:06:55] <MattLacey> not to write java
[01:06:57] *** diogen has joined #haiku
[01:07:02] * MattLacey has vowed never to write any java ever again
[01:07:08] <OmniMancer> then don't use eclipse and your problem goes away
[01:07:09] <MattLacey> Eclipse sucks
[01:07:10] <ver> hopefully ipv6 soon too
[01:07:17] <DraX> eclipse is awful
[01:07:19] <MattLacey> I had an 8mb file the other day and it just couldn't deal with it at all
[01:07:24] <ver> hey i wrote eclipse :/
[01:07:32] <mmadia> ver : no one has expressed an intention to work on ipv6
[01:07:45] <MattLacey> ver which bit? :)
[01:07:56] <ver> MattLacey: i'll say the parts you all hate
[01:07:58] <ver> :D
[01:08:01] <OmniMancer> :P
[01:08:18] <OmniMancer> well the part I hate is that it takes too long to start is too big and too bloated!
[01:08:36] <OmniMancer> it is also written in java which buys it an instant dismissal
[01:08:41] <ver> mmadia: that's my intention actually.  i have an ipv6 stack about half written for Syllable, then i realized the network stack is a general mess, and.. since nobody really uses syllable and haiku is so advanced, it would be for the 'greater good' to move my efforts over to this side of the fence.
[01:09:16] <DraX> ver: cool!
[01:09:27] <MattLacey> tbh all I really don't like about it is that it doesn't fit in becuase it's Java
[01:09:34] <MattLacey> that and the fact that it can't deal with my 8mb files ;)
[01:09:42] <OmniMancer> :P
[01:09:51] <OmniMancer> try it with your 10GB files :P
[01:09:54] <ver> DraX: it's a pie in the sky dream, not a declaration. assume i won't release any code, and vanish into another project in 2-3 weeks...
[01:10:04] <DraX> ver: yes i do that ;)
[01:10:07] <ver> hehe ;)
[01:10:38] * mmadia chains ver to a radiator
[01:10:51] <DraX> i need to finish my haiku dns stuff actually
[01:10:59] <DraX> it's mostly done, but i got bored
[01:11:11] * aldeck chains a haiku dev machine to the radiator
[01:12:01] <MattLacey> I started to port Sydergy to Haiku last year then lost momentum
[01:12:15] <MattLacey> want to get back into some dev but never seem to have any free time outside of work
[01:12:24] <DraX> yup
[01:12:30] <DraX> that plus getting bored
[01:13:02] <MattLacey> well I got lots of Synergy building, I just had to write all the OS specific parts
[01:13:19] <MattLacey> but then I moved to Australia and that kinda stalled things then I just kinda stopped
[01:13:41] <MattLacey> might have to start again now i've got virtual box running
[01:14:48] <MattLacey> school boy error
[01:14:51] * MattLacey just div'd by 0
[01:15:49] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku
[01:15:56] *** aldeck_penguin has joined #haiku
[01:16:45] *** diogen has left #haiku
[01:17:04] <OmniMancer> :O an australian
[01:18:02] *** aldeck has quit IRC
[01:18:43] <MattLacey> well I'm British, just live here
[01:18:54] <MattLacey> hopefully by the end of 2011 I'll be dual nationality
[01:18:59] <MattLacey> British Australian :)
[01:20:41] * MattLacey downloads KOffice to see what it looks like
[01:20:50] <OmniMancer> well im south african and I live in new zealand :P
[01:21:23] <MattLacey> cool :)
[01:21:28] <MattLacey> north or south island?
[01:21:51] <stargater> reboot haiku and coding , cu
[01:22:01] *** stargater has quit IRC
[01:23:29] *** oco has quit IRC
[01:25:53] <OmniMancer> south
[01:25:56] <OmniMancer> christchurch
[01:26:40] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[01:27:13] *** petterhj has quit IRC
[01:34:06] <MattLacey> nice
[01:34:10] <MattLacey> I've got to see more of the south island
[01:34:14] <MattLacey> haven't done a lot of it
[01:34:15] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[01:34:20] <MattLacey> been around a few places int he north
[01:34:36] <MattLacey> and been snowboarding in Queenstown
[01:36:22] *** Megaf has joined #haiku
[01:37:25] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC
[01:38:10] <jmayfield> i am afraid to go to new zealand.  I am almost certain I wouldnt leave, and I cant afford to do that quite yet
[01:38:28] <jmayfield> er, new zedland, as non americans say
[01:38:40] <jmayfield> :-p
[01:39:35] <OmniMancer> :P
[01:39:50] <OmniMancer> you shall join us, yes, you shall come to new zealand
[01:39:55] <MattLacey> ha ha
[01:40:06] <MattLacey> the snow is better over there than in Australia that's for sure
[01:41:16] *** aldeck has joined #haiku
[01:41:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck
[01:41:56] <OmniMancer> :P
[01:42:02] <OmniMancer> silly hot australia :P
[01:42:20] <MattLacey> it's been quite cold this week in Melbourne
[01:42:25] <MattLacey> well it feels cold to me
[01:42:33] <MattLacey> definitely acclimatised
[01:42:38] <MattLacey> in the UK 18 would have been pretty warm
[01:42:51] <MattLacey> now I actually feel cold when it's below 20
[01:43:55] <MattLacey> man this is awesome - I keep switching away from Haiku to do web stuff then realise I don't need to
[01:44:40] <OmniMancer> :O
[01:44:56] <OmniMancer> here it has been warm lately
[01:45:07] <MattLacey> so nice having all the little bits work, like google's suggestions when you're typing in the search box etc.
[01:45:17] <jmayfield> 18c is about what it is here today
[01:45:22] <MattLacey> today's supposed to hit late 20s, up to around 25 so far
[01:45:33] *** aldeck has quit IRC
[01:45:58] *** Xeon4D has joined #haiku
[01:46:13] * JonathanThompson loves Expedia interview questions
[01:47:00] <MattLacey> oh actually it's 22, close enough :)
[01:47:03] <jmayfield> really, or sarcastically?
[01:47:14] <JonathanThompson> Great fun for the mind :)
[01:47:14] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku
[01:47:15] <MattLacey> http://www.earthsci.unimelb.edu.au/~awatkins/melbtemp.html
[01:47:27] <MattLacey> sweet! I just dragged that URL from web positive into this text box :)
[01:47:32] <JonathanThompson> Such questions as "How would you design YouTube?"
[01:47:43] *** l_n has joined #haiku
[01:49:39] *** Xeon3D has quit IRC
[01:50:02] <Advant> Anyone know a good open source timesheet tracking software?
[01:50:29] <JonathanThompson> Don't know of anything that fits, Advant
[01:50:50] <JonathanThompson> Shouldn't be too hard to write up something that uses a spreadsheet.
[01:51:14] <OmniMancer> where are you in the world jmayfield?
[01:51:28] <JonathanThompson> Though perhaps that doesn't readily fulfill ALL your desires/needs.
[01:51:35] <JonathanThompson> He's in the Crazy Place of CA.
[01:51:48] <OmniMancer> CA would be canada?
[01:52:01] * MattLacey assumed California
[01:52:01] *** l_n has quit IRC
[01:52:22] <JonathanThompson> No.
[01:52:24] <Advant> JonathanThompson: yeah, looking to put something in for as company grows as well
[01:52:37] * OmniMancer has stopped assuming that as ca is only california in the american context not the global one where it is canda :P
[01:52:41] <JonathanThompson> Oh, so not just for personal use.
[01:52:42] <OmniMancer> with an a
[01:53:00] <OmniMancer> and where is CA then if its not canada?
[01:53:16] <Advant> california, canada is .ca :)
[01:53:19] <MattLacey> Advant sounds likea  good time to start writing a timesheeting app for Haiku ;)
[01:53:25] <jmayfield> OmniMancer, California.. SF Bay are to be a little more specific
[01:53:32] <JonathanThompson> Myself, I'm living in a place that would be a BAD THING if there were an 8.8 earthquake for infrastructure.
[01:53:42] <Advant> MattLacey: looking for something php/sql based  project-open.org looks promising
[01:53:52] <MattLacey> is there a way to show the desktop in haiku?
[01:53:55] <JonathanThompson> Bridges are very intensely required around here for connections.
[01:54:28] * JonathanThompson wouldn't want to be on the Alaskan Way Viaduct during a big one
[02:02:13] *** mmlr_mc has quit IRC
[02:13:05] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku
[02:19:45] <Kokito> jmayfield, you live in the bay area?
[02:26:44] <DraX> bay area, bleh
[02:27:30] *** Nozy has quit IRC
[02:28:43] * Kokito wonders what 'bleh' means in this context...
[02:29:08] <flameshadow> Hard to get excited about the bay area
[02:29:16] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[02:29:31] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[02:29:39] <DraX> Kokito: a generic expression of my generic dislike of it here
[02:31:47] <Kokito> DraX, one man's meat is another man's poison :)
[02:32:25] <DraX> well the fact that meat is all to often considered poision out here may be part of my dislike ;)
[02:33:48] <Kokito> 'to each his own' then ;)
[02:37:53] <DraX> indeed
[02:39:40] *** jmelesky has quit IRC
[02:40:03] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku
[02:40:09] <Kokito> I like both meat and the bay area, so go figure :)
[02:41:01] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC
[02:44:50] *** Barrett has quit IRC
[02:46:52] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC
[02:47:42] <jmayfield> DraX, people are idiots.. whats that got to do with the bay area?
[02:47:44] <jmayfield> heh
[02:48:05] <helf|laptop> lots of vocal ones there
[02:48:06] <helf|laptop> :p
[02:48:23] <helf|laptop> jmayfield,  ever turned an automatic into a manual?
[02:48:29] <jmayfield> Honestly, i really cant stand the bay area in general.  sonoma and mendocino countries are where california starts to get interesting
[02:48:32] <helf|laptop> sounds like an interesting project to undertake
[02:48:38] <jmayfield> eesh.. sound un-fun
[02:48:48] <DraX> jmayfield: indeed
[02:48:49] <helf|laptop> I kinda want to do it to my van
[02:48:56] <helf|laptop> its a 4spd auto right now
[02:49:07] <jmayfield> DraX, i live in petaluma, and try to avoid driving any further south
[02:49:57] <Kokito> greetings from Trac jmayfield :)
[02:50:05] <DraX> i actually live in SF
[02:50:10] <Kokito> Trac > Tracy
[02:50:50] <jmayfield> i think i'd rather gouge out my eyesballs than live in the city
[02:51:17] <DraX> being as i don't know how to drive, i don't have a lot of choices
[02:52:52] <helf|laptop> driving is dead simple
[02:53:00] <helf|laptop> proof = look how many people can drive
[02:53:01] <helf|laptop> :p
[02:53:10] <helf|laptop> and i use the term "can" loosely
[02:53:22] <helf|laptop> jmayfield,  same. A visit is fine, but id rather live in the middle of nowhere
[02:54:05] <jmayfield> helf|laptop, the fact of "hey, i dont live in this hellhole" is one of the few positive aspects of cities
[02:54:30] <helf|laptop> :P
[02:55:01] <jmayfield> ya know what grates on my nerves? looking for parking... and worse, having to PAY to park. WTF?!
[02:55:20] <DraX> i generally like cities, but this is a joke of a city
[02:55:37] <jmayfield> Sf isnt bad for a large american city, i will admit
[02:56:02] <DraX> yes, yes it is
[02:56:04] <jmayfield> I prefer the berkely/oakland, when it comes to bay area.. but still
[02:56:30] <DraX> i have trouble actually calling it a city
[02:56:46] <jmayfield> its the asshole holier than thou liberal twats that get me
[02:57:05] <jmayfield> theyre nearly as bad as the asshole holier than thou conservatives i lived amongst in phoenix
[02:57:08] <helf|laptop> I love them. They make me feel good about not being that way
[02:57:25] <helf|laptop> I love hypocritical douchebags
[02:57:55] <jmayfield> one thing about liberals.. they are really good at putting bumperstickers on their cars
[02:58:02] <helf|laptop> heh
[02:58:09] <helf|laptop> lots of talk and not much else
[03:00:07] <jmayfield> there cetainly are a lot of narrow minded, selfish jerks in the ranks of teh nor cal liberals
[03:00:20] <helf|laptop> dear effing god
[03:00:23] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku
[03:00:50] <helf|laptop> god damnit
[03:01:20] <jmayfield> dag nabbit
[03:01:37] <helf|laptop> Windows handle thrashing its MIND out
[03:01:44] * JonathanThompson poits helf|laptop
[03:02:05] <helf|laptop> at least in XP, my music keeps playing and the gui doesnt lock up
[03:02:07] <helf|laptop> this is ridiculous
[03:02:17] <jmayfield> handle?
[03:02:22] <helf|laptop> handles
[03:02:27] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku
[03:02:49] <helf|laptop> *windows handles low memorst mind p
[03:03:25] <helf|laptop> mf.. hold on
[03:03:41] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC
[03:06:27] <helf|laptop> oh my god
[03:06:30] <helf|laptop> finally
[03:06:37] <helf|laptop> 6 minutes for that
[03:07:12] <helf|laptop> i had 80% of my 1gb of ram in use by applications, 20% for FS cache, had a torrent going and an mp3 playing and i try laughing the task manager to check something and ubuntu loses its mind
[03:07:14] *** diogen has joined #haiku
[03:07:30] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku
[03:08:10] <MattLacey> ouch
[03:08:15] <MattLacey> time to switch to haiku ;)
[03:08:26] <helf|laptop> heh
[03:08:33] <helf|laptop> haiku is far from doing everything I want
[03:08:40] <helf|laptop> *from being able
[03:08:46] * JonathanThompson wonders why helf|laptop would laugh the task manager
[03:08:54] <helf|laptop> heh
[03:08:56] <helf|laptop> launching
[03:09:20] <JonathanThompson> One of the more interesting typos I've seen :p
[03:09:44] <MattLacey> one of the things that impressed me most with BeOS back in the day was being able to play several mp3s at once
[03:09:51] <Advant> ;)
[03:09:56] <MattLacey> in win 98 I couldn't even scroll a window while playing an mp3 or the music would skip
[03:10:04] <OmniMancer1> :P
[03:10:18] <Advant> i'm going to get some beers
[03:10:29] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC
[03:10:35] <MattLacey> lol
[03:10:46] <MattLacey> timezones are a funny thing  - I was about to get more coffee
[03:11:09] <JonathanThompson> True beer drinkers have no requirements for time of day :p
[03:11:48] <MattLacey> lol
[03:11:59] <MattLacey> I have no requirements, just try and avoid it while working ;)
[03:12:07] * JonathanThompson is a false beer drinker and chooses not to drink
[03:12:50] <MattLacey> seems like yesterday I was mucking about with the app server demo when it drew rectangles for windows
[03:13:20] <saivert> yup. Win95/98 has "almost multitasking"
[03:14:48] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC
[03:14:53] <MattLacey> I think the scheduler must have just switched every second or something :)
[03:17:17] <helf|laptop> god damnit
[03:17:22] <helf|laptop> it didnt it again
[03:17:56] <helf|laptop> MattLacey, you had a horrible computer, then :p my p75 (non mmx) laptop with windowsmb of ram handles playing mp3s while doing other stuff fine :p
[03:18:06] <helf|laptop> oh my god. i have got to buy ram soon.
[03:18:14] <helf|laptop> or install an OS that isnt brainddead
[03:18:26] <Advant> I wish I had my old packard bell computer, maybe now I could figure out why Win95 wouldn't ever work on it
[03:18:49] <JonathanThompson> That was why it didn't work: Packard Hell!
[03:18:58] <Advant> :)
[03:19:07] <Advant> that and bubble jet prints were the devil
[03:19:48] <MattLacey> lol
[03:21:22] <Advant> trying to print out science project docs night before, and win3.11 would kernel dump and shit wouldn't print
[03:21:51] <MattLacey> I managed to get a windows for workgroups machine online a few years back
[03:22:02] <MattLacey> MS still have a TCP/IP patch available for download for it
[03:22:10] <MattLacey> got the 16-bit version if mIRC running :)
[03:23:15] <helf|laptop> :p
[03:23:21] <helf|laptop> and IE5.5 16bit? :p
[03:25:28] <MattLacey> didn't try that :)
[03:25:35] <MattLacey> was chuffed enough that i could use it for IRC
[03:33:07] *** aldeck_penguin has quit IRC
[03:39:54] *** diogen has quit IRC
[03:47:06] <largo> I had a packard bell that lasted me over a decade. I loved that little computer. :(
[03:47:36] <largo> but about a year or two after my cat spilled a glass of water in it, the minerals caused too much corrosion on the circuits and it slowly died. :'(
[03:49:39] <ver> i say your cat owes you a new PC
[03:49:52] <ver> AND a fresh class of water.
[03:49:55] <ver> glass*
[03:50:00] <ver> rum*
[03:50:23] <ver> the worst my cat does is segfault on my carpet
[03:50:51] *** aldeck_penguin has joined #haiku
[03:51:16] <helf|laptop> I still use my NeXT.
[03:51:22] <helf|laptop> it handles IRC, etc fine :p
[03:52:35] <jmayfield_> hmm
[03:52:39] * jmayfield_ gets home
[03:52:42] <largo> I have a nice turbo color slab... but too slow to use for me.
[03:53:01] <largo> 33mhz just seems like trying to will a stone to move with your mind when you're used to 3.3ghz. :(
[03:53:08] <helf|laptop> lol
[03:53:12] <helf|laptop> works fine for textual stuff
[03:53:28] <helf|laptop> trying to surf on it is an exercise in futility, tho
[03:53:41] <largo> couple buddies of mine recently picked up some sparc10's with NS3.3 on them (if I remember correctly).
[03:54:09] <jmayfield_> heh.. oh yeah, netscape....
[03:54:22] <jmayfield_> man.. its been a while
[03:54:29] <largo> *nextstep
[03:54:37] <largo> (and netscape) ;)
[03:54:50] <jmayfield_> right, that too..
[03:55:09] <jmayfield_> but man.. flashback to a previous life
[03:55:37] <largo> I remember starting netscape back then... start it up... go make some toast... get a glass of water... wander around the house for a bit... come back... still starting... :P
[03:55:44] <helf|laptop> netscape on nextstep?
[03:55:53] <largo> nah. this was on a windows laptop.
[03:57:22] <largo> my first machine that I ran for years was a 486 sx20 or something... that I upgraded to a dx33... and jacked the ram up from 2mb I think it was... to 12 etc.. upgraded the vid mem from 256kb to 512... and eventually a 1mb vid card etc... 300baud modem to 14.4, then 28.8, then 56 etc...
[03:57:46] <largo> Nextstep has some Omniweb browser or something.
[03:58:37] <jmayfield_> never had an x86 pre-pentium.. was all apple and commodore machines prior to that
[03:58:37] <helf|laptop> omniweb
[03:58:56] <helf|laptop> i still run omniweb on it
[03:59:01] <helf|laptop> i got it to load up gmail :D
[03:59:07] <largo> :D
[03:59:22] <helf|laptop> http://www.flickr.com/photos/helfer/3947037084/
[03:59:48] <helf|laptop> if only doing text based apps and some simple games, the NeXT is still snappy :) I enjoy it
[04:00:03] *** rennj has quit IRC
[04:00:12] <largo> I get super nostalgic when I start playing with NeXT stuff. :(
[04:00:17] <jmayfield_> never had a modem for my amigas, so my connectivity went from 300baud on my c64 to 33.6 on my first pentium machine
[04:00:25] * largo was a one time developer on the Window Maker window manager project.
[04:00:31] <helf|laptop> ah, cool
[04:00:39] <helf|laptop> have any stuff you wanna get rid of?
[04:00:44] <helf|laptop> NeXT that is? :p
[04:00:53] <largo> I promised my slab to a friend already.
[04:00:56] * MattLacey used to use Window Maker
[04:00:59] <MattLacey> really nice WM
[04:01:04] <largo> it's nice too... 21" color monitor with it.
[04:01:07] <jmayfield_> i try to like WM
[04:01:15] <jmayfield_> but it bugs me to omuch
[04:01:19] <jmayfield_> dunno why..
[04:01:25] <largo> I liked WM back in the day... but that boat sailed.
[04:01:41] <jmayfield_> i prefer xmonad or awesomewm
[04:01:43] <jmayfield_> heh
[04:01:45] <largo> probably 1998 to 2002 or so was my WM romance.
[04:01:58] <jmayfield_> that was my beos era
[04:01:58] <helf|laptop> largo, my set up http://www.flickr.com/photos/helfer/4283277107/
[04:02:19] <MattLacey> largo - around the same time
[04:02:23] <largo> oo... nice, you have the printer too. :D
[04:02:24] <MattLacey> I used to use it at University
[04:02:29] <MattLacey> everybody else ran windows
[04:02:35] <helf|laptop> yeah, havent tested it yet, tho. i gotta replace the rollers
[04:02:43] <largo> my buddy (one of the ones that just picked up the sparc setup) has his original next printer and cdrom drive too.
[04:02:43] <MattLacey> it was rather handy being able to tunnel x packets
[04:02:45] <largo> I have neither. :(
[04:02:55] <helf|laptop> i'd love the original cd drive
[04:02:59] <MattLacey> used to run programs on the uni machines and have the windows on my x :)
[04:03:05] *** SpaceGhostC2C has joined #haiku
[04:03:31] <ver> uh oh.  i broke the bug tracker.
[04:03:47] <ver> my last name (O'Neill) is triggering an SQL injection bug
[04:03:53] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/ns4pr1netconf1.png
[04:03:53] <JonathanThompson> Quick, file a bug report!
[04:03:57] <largo> ;)
[04:03:57] <ver> i think
[04:04:03] <mmadia> ver : what's your username?
[04:04:19] <helf|laptop> largo,  I had 4.0 installed on my slab at one point
[04:04:19] <ver> ver
[04:04:25] <helf|laptop> i love the dock thing but otherwise its useless :p
[04:04:30] <largo> yep.
[04:04:33] <helf|laptop> very few apps work at all
[04:04:40] <mmadia> what's the error, ver?
[04:04:44] <largo> but I'd been hunting for it for years and didn't even know it really existed until about a year or two ago.
[04:04:46] <MattLacey> I can't seem to log in to trac atm, though it says my email address is a reserved username
[04:04:55] <ver> Trac detected an internal error: UndefinedError: "projec" not defined
[04:05:01] <largo> I'd always been told it was just a design mockup shot that I'd seen.
[04:05:05] <ver> could be unrelated
[04:05:13] <ver> but i only get the error while logged in
[04:05:22] <helf|laptop> largo,  I had the iso somewhere
[04:05:27] <mmadia> are you able to file a ticket, ver?
[04:05:27] <helf|laptop> i think i deleted itto make room for music or such
[04:05:39] <helf|laptop> since it was not useful for anything and i didnt have original media :p
[04:05:40] *** SpaceGhostC2C has left #haiku
[04:05:40] <ver> negative.. The action that triggered the error was: GET: /newticket
[04:05:46] <largo> helf|laptop: oh, I have it now. :)
[04:05:49] <ver> but any action will trigger an error
[04:06:30] <ver> any of the tabs i mean, wiki, timeline, roadmap, browse source, view tickets, new ticket, or search.  i can logout though, and then everything works.
[04:06:32] <largo> largo: my slab is still stored in my parents basement though... my girlfriend would shoot me if I brought that behemoth here. (mostly the monitor. the slab is relatively tiny)
[04:06:38] <mmadia> can you nudge me tomorrow about this, ver?
[04:06:55] <ver> i certainly can, but i have patches to submit, darnit..
[04:06:56] <helf|laptop> heh
[04:07:08] <MattLacey> ok this code is annoying me too much - going for coffee
[04:07:10] <helf|laptop> largo,  yours wouldnt happen to have a dsp cache card in it?
[04:07:17] *** MattLacey is now known as MattLacey|Refuel
[04:07:30] <largo> I already have my 22" CRT sitting on my "desk" right in the living room. ;) that's bad enough. (and the full tower under it)
[04:07:47] <largo> helf|laptop: not sure. I'd honestly have to go check.
[04:07:59] <jmayfield_> 22" crt? wow! old skool!
[04:08:00] <helf|laptop> if it does
[04:08:05] <helf|laptop> ill pay you for it
[04:08:06] <helf|laptop> :p
[04:08:10] <largo> I barely ran it... forgot the root pass on it years ago... so it's been gathering dust.
[04:08:41] <helf|laptop> heh
[04:09:22] <largo> jmayfield_: yeah.. I picked it up (the CRT) back in ... oh.. 2003 or so... $240 refurbished... Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2040u 22".
[04:09:31] *** rennj has joined #haiku
[04:09:47] <helf|laptop> i used to have a ~22" SUN CRT
[04:09:53] <helf|laptop> farking heavy as hell
[04:10:03] <helf|laptop> it weighed at least 100lbs
[04:10:23] <largo> aside from the chips in the non-glare coating from a drunken change throwing fight it's still in good condition... although it has developed a weird quirk where every so often it will shudder a little and then the picture will pull in a half inch from either side and go brighter.... later it will go back... I've gotten used to it.
[04:10:27] <largo> been doing it for a year or so now.
[04:10:53] <largo> yeah... the NeXT monitor is like that... not something you want to move unless you absolutely have to. :'(
[04:11:20] <helf|laptop> :p
[04:11:33] <helf|laptop> I had a 17" monochrome frog stand CRT on my old mono slab
[04:11:35] <helf|laptop> i loved it
[04:11:44] <jmayfield_> i hated the crt days... i never had enough money to buy anything other than shitty quality ones, so theyd get all blurry and shitty in no-time
[04:11:56] <helf|laptop> yeah, that sucked
[04:12:01] <helf|laptop> most of mine have been trinitrons
[04:12:04] <helf|laptop> = awesome
[04:12:47] <jmayfield_> everytime i  finally get a new monitor.. "Oh ya, thats what white looks like.... oh yeah, fonts are supposed to be crisp..."
[04:13:00] <largo> my next monitor purchase is going to finally be a flat panel.
[04:13:17] <largo> I also do graphic design, so I've been holding off until the quality ones got cheaper.
[04:14:06] <helf|laptop> jmayfield, AA begs to differ on "crisp fonts:"
[04:14:23] <jmayfield_> heh
[04:14:27] <jmayfield_> depends
[04:14:39] <helf|laptop> Some dude got all pissy at my on OSN because I said I didn't like AAed fonts
[04:14:54] <helf|laptop> It was funny. I didn't even say they were a bad thing, just that I didnt like them
[04:15:06] <largo> haha... that reminds me of my old 15" or so that was so blurry that I could actually run 1024x768 interlaced (couldn't go higher or non int at that res) and you couldn't even tell because of how bad it was... it was so bad it actually made it better. :P
[04:15:07] <jmayfield_> well, i  dont think non-aa is the answer
[04:15:19] <jmayfield_> i cant imagine looking at non-aa fonts, tbh
[04:15:22] <helf|laptop> its not
[04:15:25] <helf|laptop> but i prefer it :p
[04:16:09] <helf|laptop> He went on and on about how itll make your eyes hurt to not have it. It messed with mine on like OSX having it enabled.
[04:16:31] <largo> I like well done AA fonts. not blurry ones. there can be a big difference between systems... even for the same fonts at the same sizes.
[04:16:44] <OmniMancer1> indeed
[04:16:47] <helf|laptop> I really dislike how they work in OSX
[04:16:55] <OmniMancer1> destroy the OSX
[04:17:08] <OmniMancer1> for it makes helf sad
[04:17:24] * OmniMancer1 is going home now so you won't have to put up with him for a while.
[04:17:27] <jmayfield_> i dislike most things about osx, unless the context is "..as compared to macos classic"
[04:17:31] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC
[04:18:13] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/DSCF1812.jpg
[04:18:16] <largo> my desk. :P
[04:18:36] *** mmadia42 has joined #haiku
[04:18:53] * Kokito likes ramen...
[04:19:01] <jmayfield_> aww
[04:19:03] <ianj> the only huge issue i have left with OS X is the finder
[04:19:11] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[04:19:11] <jmayfield_> re: note on computer :-p
[04:19:31] <MattLacey|Refuel> result!
[04:19:33] <largo> jmayfield_:  :P
[04:19:35] <MattLacey|Refuel> Got a free coffee
[04:19:36] <ianj> the only desktop systems in active development that even come close to how i think file management should work are haiku and GNOME
[04:19:38] *** MattLacey|Refuel is now known as MattLacey
[04:20:05] <ianj> nice CRTs and ramen bowl
[04:20:20] <largo> jmayfield_: my gf leaves me notes. :P I think they're sweet. :)
[04:20:21] <MattLacey> nuts just saw a PM from mmadia
[04:20:24] <MattLacey> missed him
[04:20:31] <mmadia42> yeah, he kdl'd.
[04:20:37] *** mmadia42 is now known as mmadia
[04:20:54] <jmayfield_> largo, heh.. didnt mean to imply it was anythign other than sweet
[04:21:00] <largo> :)
[04:21:05] <largo> I gave away the system on the left.
[04:21:07] <MattLacey> ah :)
[04:21:19] <MattLacey> if you could reset my password that'd be great :)
[04:21:29] <largo> old black man who works at Burger King where my mom goes for lunch needed a computer to talk to his granddaughter at college...
[04:21:33] <largo> so I donated it. :)
[04:21:37] <jmayfield_> ianj, trying to wrangle windows in osx is what kills me most immediately
[04:21:41] <largo> best I could do. :/
[04:21:50] <ianj> i actually like window management
[04:21:54] <jmayfield_> i donated my hair on sunday.. heh
[04:21:59] <ianj> if Mac OS 9 had had exposé, that would have been glorious
[04:22:09] <MattLacey> I find the window management of OSX the most annoying bit :(
[04:22:22] <MattLacey> really it's just the resizing that does my nut
[04:22:30] <ianj> the big problem i have with windows in OS X is that focus isn't handled very well sometiems
[04:22:33] <ianj> *sometimes
[04:22:38] <MattLacey> if they had modifier keys a bit like linux so you could move/resize windows anywhere I'd be much happier
[04:22:38] <helf|laptop> every os has that issue
[04:22:42] <helf|laptop> and it annoys me
[04:22:46] <ianj> also, my desk, since largo started it - http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7971/deskdc.jpg
[04:22:59] <helf|laptop> I'm not too fond of window management in osx, either. I also despise the universal menu bar. but whatever :p
[04:23:11] <largo> ianj: that surely tops mine ;)
[04:23:12] <jmayfield_> MattLacey, i agree.. which is why i tend towards tiling wms, and avoid the whole issue all togtehr
[04:23:16] <MattLacey> I am struggling a bit with Haiku atm in a 1024x768 window. Too used to my 1080p display
[04:23:18] <ianj> i'm a solid global menu bar fan
[04:23:28] <ianj> all of my GNOME setups have it now
[04:23:33] <largo> would it be taboo of me to say that the window management in Haiku is, so far for me, a bit more difficult than I'm used to?
[04:23:38] <helf|laptop> jmayfield,  i need a higher res monitor so i can go the tile route :)
[04:23:40] <ianj> except at work, because my work desktop has RHEL and RHEL is too old to build it properly
[04:23:55] <largo> at least as far as resizing, navigating betwixt etc.
[04:23:56] <MattLacey> largo it's easier in Haiku / BeOS
[04:24:01] <helf|laptop> ianj, it just annoys me :(
[04:24:03] <MattLacey> just right click on everything til you find what youw ant :)
[04:24:05] <jmayfield_> helf|laptop,  its a joy on my 30" screen at work
[04:24:06] <helf|laptop> i dunno why really
[04:24:18] <helf|laptop> jmayfield,  i bet :D
[04:24:21] <ianj> i hate per-window menu bars so much. i can live with them on a system that is otherwise good, but i really don't prefer it
[04:24:41] <ianj> i give GNOME and haiku a pass because they get file management right and that is ultimately more important
[04:25:05] <largo> well, resizing when the only way I know of is a tiny little few pixels wide angle on the bottom right... ? am I missing something?
[04:25:09] <helf|laptop>  i liie it since i can click on an apps menu and instantly use it instead of having to make the app the active one so the menu bar changes to it
[04:25:15] * largo is a total newb, so it's entirely possible.
[04:25:19] <largo> (even likely)
[04:25:52] <ianj> it's a combination of aesthetics and space efficiency that makes me like global menu bars
[04:25:58] <ianj> and fitt's law. fitt's law is so awesome
[04:26:07] * largo google's Fitt's Law
[04:26:07] <helf|laptop> fitts law can kiss my arse
[04:26:10] <helf|laptop> people worship it :p
[04:26:19] <jmayfield_> ..like the constitution
[04:26:20] <ianj> i don't worship it, but i respect it
[04:26:28] <largo> I also prefer file navigation in windows. ;)
[04:26:35] <helf|laptop> jmayfield, shaddup, you hippy
[04:26:35] <helf|laptop> :p
[04:26:39] <jmayfield_> heh
[04:26:45] <jmayfield_> i prefer not navigating files
[04:26:48] <largo> I hate "spacial finders" or whatever... where I have to open like 20 windows to get where I want... and then close them all again... what a pain.
[04:26:50] <ianj> i've got this old thinkpad with opensolaris on it, and no trackpad, just the trackpoint
[04:26:52] <jmayfield_> graphically that is
[04:27:01] * largo is a real GUI type.
[04:27:01] <helf|laptop> i love nipples!
[04:27:12] <ianj> i'd normally have a terrible time targeting menus with that thing, but with the global menu bar in GNOME, i can just shove the cursor to the top of the screen and be there
[04:27:25] <helf|laptop> yah, i dont habe that issue at all
[04:27:44] <helf|laptop> i almost never have issues yanking the mouse over to a menu item in a window and selecting it first try
[04:27:45] <largo> helf|laptop: I have a german friend who absolutely prefers the "nipples". I can't stand em.
[04:27:51] <helf|laptop> I love them
[04:27:51] <ianj> even with a really good mouse, i love the ease of targeting those menus
[04:27:55] <helf|laptop> I despise trackpads
[04:28:09] <jmayfield_> heh. i dont use a lot of gui, mouse dependent stuff anymore.. tiled wm, vim, and some terms..heh
[04:28:12] <ianj> some trackpads are terrible, but the good ones are pretty good
[04:28:18] <helf|laptop> they still suck
[04:28:19] <helf|laptop> imo
[04:28:19] <helf|laptop> :p
[04:28:33] <helf|laptop> I hate having to move my finger around so much
[04:28:35] <ianj> to each his own, i guess
[04:28:35] <helf|laptop> wow, that sounds lazy
[04:28:46] <ianj> as long as you don't like browser-style file managers, we can get along
[04:28:50] <helf|laptop> with the nipple i just apply pressure on one side or the other and it works
[04:28:55] <helf|laptop> ianj,  hell no
[04:28:58] <helf|laptop> thats just evil :p
[04:29:01] <largo> part of what really attracted me to Haiku was how simple and elegant it looks. coherent. clean. simple. and as a nice GUI.
[04:29:03] <ianj> alright, then
[04:29:05] <DraX> the nipple is the one true mousing device
[04:29:17] * helf|laptop high-fives DraX
[04:29:23] <DraX> especially on the newer thinkpads where scroll works with the middle button
[04:29:25] <jmayfield_> meh..
[04:29:32] <MattLacey> ho hum
[04:29:38] <MattLacey> better get back to fixing this damned bug
[04:29:44] <DraX> i can't use an external keyboard anymore, because using the mouse is such a pain
[04:29:47] <largo> ianj: browser style file managers?
[04:29:47] <jmayfield_> helf|laptop, do you use a joystick on non-laptops?
[04:29:48] <helf|laptop> we can all agree that nipples are at least better than the bolt on touch panels on current machines :p
[04:29:51] <largo> probably referring to what I like. ;)
[04:29:58] <helf|laptop> jmayfield,  no, i hate joysticks :p
[04:30:09] <jmayfield_> isnt a nipple a small joystick
[04:30:10] <jmayfield_> ?
[04:30:14] <helf|laptop> they dont compare
[04:30:21] <ianj> nipple > unibody macbook trackpad, at least
[04:30:22] <jmayfield_> ..man, thats sounds, um, euphamistic
[04:30:23] <helf|laptop> joysticks require your entire hands involvement
[04:30:27] <helf|laptop> lol
[04:30:37] <helf|laptop> the nipple requirs the top of one finger and minimal movement
[04:30:53] <helf|laptop> ianj,  oh god. i hate the trackpads on the new mb's
[04:31:03] <JonathanThompson> Touchy-feely playing with your joystick again, helf|laptop ?
[04:31:09] <helf|laptop> and my nipples
[04:31:31] * JonathanThompson loves that there's a bug in the Yahoo! comment character counter...
[04:31:37] <JonathanThompson> ows
[04:31:39] <largo> I can click through to where I need to be... then either just slap the backspace key, or click back to go back... I don't have to keep moving the mouse to close a whole trail of little windows across my screen that I have and had no interest in at all beyond having to traverse them to get where I wanted to be.
[04:31:42] <largo> I hate that.
[04:31:54] <JonathanThompson> I have 11 characters remaining, but I'm over the 4,000 character posting limit.
[04:34:16] <largo> on Haiku at least the "Copy to" menu lets you navigate to where you want to copy to, so you don't have to close TWO whole piles of useless windows. ;) kudos for that.
[04:34:49] *** aldeck_penguin has quit IRC
[04:35:19] <largo> speaking of Fitt's Law...
[04:36:02] <largo> I've noticed that in FireFox on windows, you can slap the mouse all the way to the right and be on the scrollbar... but if I recall correctly, in Linux, there's a 1 or 2 pixel border there at full screen that prevents this. I hate that.
[04:36:09] <ianj> thei always thought the BeOS feature of putting the whole filesystem in the contextual menus was awesome
[04:36:10] <largo> (in Gnome on Ubuntu)
[04:36:13] <ver> does bezilla support UTF8?
[04:36:23] <ianj> hm. never noticed that
[04:36:26] <ianj> i never maximize windows
[04:36:37] <jmayfield_> ianj, pgup/pgdown ?
[04:36:51] <largo> I maximize everything in Windows. that's what the taskbar is for... to navigate between them. :)
[04:37:05] <ver> it's too bad nobody uses windows...
[04:37:07] <helf|laptop> largo, you can do that in windows, too
[04:37:12] <helf|laptop> i have it set up in the context menu :D
[04:37:15] <ver> it really is an awesome OS, if only the world gave it a chance...
[04:37:16] <helf|laptop> copy to and move to options
[04:37:44] <helf|laptop> i actually like XP usually
[04:37:49] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/newfaqlogo4.png
[04:37:51] <largo> like that.
[04:37:53] <ianj> there's an article pinned up next to my boss's office door
[04:37:54] <helf|laptop> course mine is far from a normal install
[04:38:00] <ianj> part of it says "people are dumb and care about dumb things"
[04:38:08] <ianj> i firmly believe in that
[04:38:21] <helf|laptop> dumb things is subjective
[04:38:28] <jmayfield_> sometimes
[04:38:30] <ianj> people rush to the least common denominator
[04:38:30] <helf|laptop> like your aesthetics obsession :p
[04:38:34] <helf|laptop> ;D
[04:38:35] <ianj> haha
[04:38:44] <jmayfield_> farmville (etc) *is* dumb
[04:38:51] <ianj> yeah.
[04:38:56] <helf|laptop> but yeah, I hate the least common denominator crap
[04:38:57] <ianj> if something works well, it should look good too
[04:39:12] <MattLacey> my biggest gripe with windows is the crap command line
[04:39:21] <helf|laptop> they fixed that some what
[04:39:26] <MattLacey> nothing can touch Visual Studio though ;)
[04:39:32] <ver> vim?
[04:39:32] <MattLacey> best IDE ever
[04:39:39] <ver> edlin!
[04:39:43] * largo is big on aesthetics.
[04:39:47] <ianj> windows does not exist in my little world
[04:39:55] <MattLacey> I use vim a lot but Visual Studio is just fantastic
[04:39:55] * ver wonders if anybody remembers edlin
[04:39:59] <largo> if Haiku looked like crap, I wouldn't use it. I'm not kidding.
[04:40:05] <ianj> most of my hardware won't run windows anyway
[04:40:07] <ianj> yeah
[04:40:11] <ianj> i won't use anything that doesn't look good
[04:40:13] <largo> I have no desire to stare at ugly all day, no matter how technically brilliant it might be.
[04:40:21] <helf|laptop> my idea of good aesthetics is a UI that I barely run into
[04:40:33] <ver> largo: that's why i always hire supermodels at my programming shop.
[04:40:36] <MattLacey> WTF is wrong with this stupid damned language?!!
[04:40:38] <ianj> not being overdone is an important part of aesthetics
[04:40:39] <helf|laptop> lol
[04:40:53] <helf|laptop> one reason I adore workplace in nextstep
[04:40:58] <MattLacey> 4750.00/19000.0000 != 0.2
[04:41:02] <ianj> see, NeXTSTEP is good aesthetics
[04:41:08] <helf|laptop> yep
[04:41:08] <largo> ver: you don't need to stare at a technician for them to do their work. ;)
[04:41:09] <helf|laptop> lovely
[04:41:15] <largo> I sit right in front of this computer all day every day.
[04:41:20] <largo> staring right at it. ;)
[04:41:34] <helf|laptop> ianj, one of my "aesthetics" gripes are the freaking huge ass horrible shadows in the newest OSX releases
[04:41:39] <ver> largo: you're pointing out that i may not want to stare at supermodel technicians..
[04:41:41] <helf|laptop> they are tiny like in gnome like they should be
[04:41:46] <largo> ianj: it's NeXT or NEXTSTEP. ;) hehe
[04:41:47] <ver> i can assure you that is clearly not so
[04:41:48] <helf|laptop> they fuzz out WAY too far
[04:42:00] <ianj> i'm ok with the shadows, but i hate how everything is rounded
[04:42:05] <largo> ver: if you hire them, I'll come do business with you :D
[04:42:05] <helf|laptop> yeah
[04:42:06] <ianj> and the window controls
[04:42:10] <helf|laptop> I hate the shiny obsession
[04:42:13] <ianj> it's time to ditch the gumdrops
[04:42:14] <helf|laptop> hate it hate it hate it
[04:42:17] <largo> "I need a.... um.... something programmed...."
[04:42:17] <MattLacey> they don't bother me except for when I have a window full screen on one monitor and the shadow is rendered on the edge of the second monitor
[04:42:19] <helf|laptop> 7 is shiny
[04:42:21] <helf|laptop> osx is shiny
[04:42:24] <helf|laptop> kde is shiny
[04:43:07] * largo is pretty sick of shiny. again, part of the reason why I like Haiku so much.
[04:43:26] <helf|laptop> If haiku ever gets shiny, I'll hunt down the devs and give them what-for
[04:43:40] <ianj> i spent a lot of my computer time on IRIX these days, so i end up far away from shiny most of the time
[04:44:04] <largo> I do personally like the slight drop shadow behind windows... not like the recent OSX and Win Vista/7 stuff though. ugh.
[04:44:10] <DraX> haiku is a nice combination of, it should just work, and i'm not a moron that needs shiny
[04:44:10] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC
[04:44:14] <largo> just enough to make the front window stand off the background ones.
[04:44:15] <helf|laptop> I don't mind XP with classic mode, taskbar on the right side, fonts all set tiny, etc
[04:44:27] <helf|laptop> largo,  exactly
[04:44:33] <helf|laptop> largo, gnome does it pretty well
[04:44:38] <ianj> Haiku is an example of something that looks good without going after eye candy
[04:44:46] <helf|laptop> I actively sought out a hack to disable them in osx when i had it on my mini 9
[04:44:57] <helf|laptop> at 1024x600, they were actually causing issues
[04:45:13] <ianj> there's some little app from unsanity that kills window shadows
[04:45:26] <largo> I actually don't mind the unfocused window shadow in Windows now... but when you focus the window.. UGH... it turns into this super dark giant shadow. :(
[04:45:35] <largo> aesthetics fail.
[04:45:54] <ianj> everything in the windows vista/7 interface is too big for my taste
[04:45:59] <helf|laptop> yeah
[04:46:01] <helf|laptop> its all huge
[04:46:16] <helf|laptop> i wish 7 had a better theme you could apply
[04:46:33] <helf|laptop> the borders around windows and the window control widgets are too freaking huge
[04:46:35] <ianj> doesn't bother me
[04:46:38] <largo> I switched the taskbar back to small rectangle buttons with the titles in them. I hate the new squares in Win7.
[04:46:43] <ianj> because nothing i have runs it
[04:46:46] <largo> with "stacks" of icons etc...
[04:46:47] <helf|laptop> heh
[04:46:49] <ianj> but from afar... just an observation
[04:46:56] <helf|laptop> largo,  yeah
[04:46:57] <largo> makes me have to do a ton of extra clicks and mousing over and waiting etc...
[04:46:59] <largo> worthless.
[04:47:02] <helf|laptop> ianj, family members use it
[04:47:05] <helf|laptop> largo, yeah
[04:47:07] <ianj> ah
[04:47:12] <ianj> i was about to say
[04:47:16] <ianj> get an octane and call it a day
[04:47:16] <helf|laptop> most of the "enhancements" end up making you have to click more
[04:47:18] <helf|laptop> its annoying as hell
[04:47:29] <helf|laptop> i have an onyx2 :p
[04:47:32] <helf|laptop> forget the octane! ;)
[04:47:36] <ianj> haha
[04:47:36] <ver> is anybody missing 'sed' on their recent haikus?
[04:47:41] <ianj> you just aren't running it
[04:47:41] <largo> or how about the titlebar of the explorer in Win7? you could park a car in there. :(
[04:47:46] <helf|laptop> im scared to
[04:47:52] <helf|laptop> i have no idea how many watts it uses
[04:48:03] <helf|laptop> largo,  its crazy
[04:48:26] <helf|laptop> people go "well, resolutions and dpis are getting to the point that it doesnt matter".. its still using up too much space!
[04:48:35] <MattLacey> ver I have on 35437
[04:48:40] <MattLacey> I have sed I mean
[04:49:09] <ianj> helf, that argument kills me
[04:49:32] <ianj> we're not getting higher resolutions so we can display the same content we did on 800x600 displays, just with more decorations
[04:49:38] <DraX> ver: sed was removed from the base os
[04:49:39] <helf|laptop> its the same idiots that used to tell me current HDDs are fast enough that you dont have to defrag because the seek times are negligible. lol
[04:49:44] <DraX> ver: it's in an optional package now
[04:49:45] <ianj> we're getting them to display more content
[04:49:46] <helf|laptop> ianj,  pretty much
[04:50:02] <helf|laptop> 5ms * 40 seeks = slow
[04:50:31] <helf|laptop> i cant wait for my ssd to get here
[04:50:46] <mmadia> BasicCommandLineTools  = sed
[04:51:03] <DraX> ver: ^^^
[04:51:13] <helf|laptop> I take issue with the fact I can bog down a computer doing simplistic tasks in 2010 :p
[04:51:19] <ianj> i haven't defragged in years, actually
[04:51:35] <helf|laptop> ianj, on anything other than windows you dont really need to
[04:51:41] <ianj> mac os x defrags itself on the fly, and i'm not sure how IRIX and linux and solaris handle it, but i've never heard tell of it
[04:51:43] <ianj> yeah
[04:51:47] <ianj> that's what i thought
[04:51:47] <helf|laptop> but try using an xp install that hasnt been defragged in 4 years
[04:51:57] <ianj> so what is it about windows that makes it necessary to do this manually?
[04:52:09] <DraX> well ntfs probably doesn't
[04:52:10] <helf|laptop> it doesnt do onthe fly defragging
[04:52:16] <DraX> neither does anything else
[04:52:17] <helf|laptop> ntfs probably doenst what?
[04:52:24] <DraX> the file systems are designed to reduce fragmentation
[04:52:35] <DraX> fat is just really simple
[04:52:40] <DraX> and doesn't take stuff like that into account
[04:52:41] <helf|laptop> i know that?
[04:52:47] <helf|laptop> we never mentione fat
[04:52:52] <helf|laptop> fat hanst been used for a windows install in years
[04:52:59] <helf|laptop> *hasnt
[04:53:03] <largo> http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/wtfugh1.png
[04:53:07] <DraX> well ntfs avoids fragmentation
[04:53:29] <helf|laptop> its attempts to
[04:53:34] <helf|laptop> doesnt succeed very well :)
[04:53:47] *** l_n has joined #haiku
[04:53:50] <ianj> haha
[04:53:56] <ianj> nice highlighting of the fat titlebar
[04:54:05] <largo> ;)
[04:54:07] <l_n> ?
[04:54:08] <ianj> and holy shit. critical disk space situation
[04:54:15] <largo> l_n: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/phreadom/wtfugh1.png
[04:54:19] <helf|laptop> I know fragmentation is just inherent, but its still annoying
[04:54:39] <helf|laptop> heh
[04:54:45] <largo> ianj: yeah... H is the Haiku drive (75GB) and there's a 100GB Linux partition that doesn't show.
[04:54:51] <helf|laptop> my space situation usually looks like that :p
[04:54:54] <ianj> ah
[04:54:56] <helf|laptop> i never have enough hdd space
[04:55:15] <ianj> i'm OK for now, but i'll need to tack some disks onto my server later this year
[04:55:23] <largo> yeah. :( every time I buy a new drive and think of using it for backups... it just becomes more usable space. ;)
[04:55:28] <l_n> lmfao
[04:55:35] * MattLacey casts the world and his dog to a double
[04:55:51] <helf|laptop> largo,  yeah :p
[04:56:17] <helf|laptop> I'm a bit of a data packrat
[04:56:57] <largo> yeah... as you can see, so am I. :P
[04:57:02] * JonathanThompson stuffs helf|laptop into a compression hosery
[04:57:20] <largo> almost 20 years of garbage on here... all my past project files, websites, design work, server backups, etc...
[04:57:27] <largo> as well as all the usual cruft.
[04:57:38] <MattLacey> I can't deal with that kind of thing any more :)
[04:57:39] <helf|laptop> i have ~160gb game roms, 60gb ebooks, 700gb of divx files...
[04:57:45] <MattLacey> I used to have multiple machines and crap
[04:57:49] <l_n> erm.. doesn't most of the stuff you just listed qualify as 'cruft'?
[04:57:51] <MattLacey> now I just have one laptop and that's it :)
[04:57:58] <helf|laptop> largo,  yeah. i gotta start sorting stuff. i have crap going back to when i first started using PCs
[04:58:02] <helf|laptop> when i was 11 or so
[04:58:07] <JonathanThompson> MattLacey: you're an older version of helf|laptop ?
[04:58:13] <MattLacey> lol
[04:58:15] <ianj> i just can't do laptops
[04:58:16] <largo> MattLacey: I recently donated 7 computers and 11 monitors to GoodWill. just to clear out some room in my parents basement.
[04:58:18] <l_n> i have my 40G eee.. that's it.
[04:58:20] <helf|laptop> i still have lots of machines :p
[04:58:21] <largo> and there are still several more.
[04:58:24] <MattLacey> I used to hate laptops
[04:58:28] <helf|laptop> lol, largo
[04:58:29] <largo> I've only got this 1 machine here now... and a laptop for my gf.
[04:58:30] <MattLacey> I use it as a desktop machine really
[04:58:33] <ianj> i have one that i use when away from home
[04:58:35] <MattLacey> but I can't see the point in having a desktop now
[04:58:41] <MattLacey> MacBook Pro is all I need
[04:58:42] <ianj> but trying to use it as anything more aggravates me
[04:58:43] <helf|laptop> ive been putting working machines at the end of my driveway with "works, please take' signs
[04:58:45] <l_n> i would like to put together a rack mount cluster with old p3's and p4's
[04:58:48] <ianj> haha. mine's a MacBook Pro, too
[04:58:59] <helf|laptop> i like laptops
[04:59:00] <MattLacey> OSX just works, the hardware is sexy and works, I have a decent monitor attached
[04:59:01] <helf|laptop> and desktops
[04:59:07] <l_n> for no other reason than to be able to point at it and say, "that's my supercomputer." :P
[04:59:11] <helf|laptop> lol
[04:59:27] <MattLacey> I used to hate macs and laptops
[04:59:39] <helf|laptop> I want a laptop that can hold two mirrored 1tb drives
[04:59:42] <ianj> i'm down with macs... at least the modular ones
[04:59:48] <MattLacey> OSX was the best thing to happen to Macs
[04:59:49] <ianj> my main desktop is a power mac G4
[04:59:56] <helf|laptop> my issue with laptops is lack of space
[04:59:59] <ianj> i resisted OS X for a long time
[05:00:05] * JonathanThompson pets Snow Leopard
[05:00:05] <helf|laptop> im one of those weirdos that likes having everything with him :p
[05:00:06] <ianj> yeah
[05:00:10] <ianj> i can't stand laptop keyboards
[05:00:15] <ianj> and the small screens
[05:00:21] <helf|laptop> mine has a 15"
[05:00:29] <helf|laptop> 1280x800 i think
[05:00:31] <helf|laptop> its not too bad
[05:00:35] <l_n> meh. apple made me mad when they dropped atom support from os x and (attempted to) kill(ed) the netbook hobbyist segment
[05:00:36] <helf|laptop> but i run most apps full screen
[05:00:37] <MattLacey> ianj but they beat the hell out of lugging a desktop machine to your coffee shop ;)
[05:00:39] <ianj> it's OK for class and traveling, but i want a full keyboard and an array of monitors at home
[05:00:47] <largo> yeah... this is a Intel core i7 965 Extreme Edition quad core hyper threaded 3.2ghz (shows up as 8 cores), 6GB DDR333 at 1333mhz, the drive space you saw...  Radeon HD 4870 X2 (2GB), dual GBIT intel NICs, and 802.11B/G/N wifi etc.
[05:00:48] <ianj> ah
[05:00:53] <largo> I work on this machine.
[05:00:54] <ianj> i don't have that problem
[05:00:56] <helf|laptop> l_n, no great loss to me. it sucked on my mini9
[05:00:58] <ianj> not really a coffee shop guy
[05:01:01] <largo> so I want it to be a beast enough to do anything I want.
[05:01:04] <MattLacey> I have my MS Ergonomic 3000 + mouse at home
[05:01:11] <MattLacey> I work at home and have to get out of the place at times
[05:01:15] <JonathanThompson> I HAVE managed to get Snow Leopard .1 update into an unrecoverable state for Aqua....
[05:01:16] <JonathanThompson> 
[05:01:16] <helf|laptop> largo, im piecing together a Q9550
[05:01:17] <ianj> i work on computers in the office, then go home and work on computers there
[05:01:23] <MattLacey> so I go and work in the coffee shop for a couple of hours a week where they have wireless
[05:01:24] <ianj> when i go out, it's because i want to get away from the computers
[05:01:26] <l_n> MattLacey: heh.. i saw an Improv Anywhere prank where three or four people set up desktop rigs in a coffee shop one right after the other.. it was amusing.
[05:01:33] <MattLacey> ha ha
[05:01:35] <ianj> makes sense
[05:01:45] <helf|laptop> ianj,  I really dont care for coffee shops :p i dont get the obsession
[05:02:01] <ianj> i'm more of a dive bar guy than a coffee shop guy
[05:02:07] <JonathanThompson> helf|laptop: coffee, obsessions, addictions, all fit ;)
[05:02:19] <helf|laptop> I'm more of a "leave me the fuck alone" and stay at my house enjoying solitude guy
[05:02:26] <l_n> coffee shops used to be where i went when i wanted to be 'social'.
[05:02:27] <MattLacey> the coffee is really good in Australia
[05:02:33] <helf|laptop> heh
[05:02:41] <largo> helf|laptop: I hadn't actually planned on building this one yet... but my last one died for the 2nd time and I'd had enough...
[05:02:41] <helf|laptop> I also dont like coffee much :)
[05:02:46] <helf|laptop> largo,  :)
[05:02:50] <helf|laptop> largo,  i wish i had the money to do that
[05:02:55] *** PathagenX has quit IRC
[05:02:58] <helf|laptop> largo, i figured ill be happy on this q9550 for awhile.
[05:03:01] <largo> helf|laptop: and because it was so old, it wasn't worth rebuilding anymore... but to build a new one I really had to replace most of it.
[05:03:22] <MattLacey> I keep getting paranoid that the people downstairs are on my network
[05:03:23] <helf|laptop> gonna slap 8gb ram in it and 4*1tb drives and call it a day
[05:03:26] <MattLacey> even though I know they're not
[05:03:32] <largo> helf|laptop: yeah, part of the reason I went kind of big with this one... so that hopefully it will last awhile... I ran the last one for about 7 years.
[05:03:35] <MattLacey> but they're constantly playing the same music as me :)
[05:03:48] <helf|laptop> largo,  my main pc is still a dual 1.4ghz tualatin i got off mmadia
[05:03:48] <largo> and would have continued using it as a secondary machine for many more had it not died.
[05:03:52] <helf|laptop> before that it was still P3s :p
[05:04:00] <helf|laptop> the q9550 will last me a *long* while
[05:04:05] <helf|laptop> im really not very demanding on my machines
[05:04:07] <largo> haha.... awesome. :D
[05:04:18] <helf|laptop> this laptop is just a core duo 1.6 :)
[05:04:20] <l_n> i have yet to figure out why so many people think god did things they did for themselves... (american idol (recorded) is playing in the background and the guy was talking about how he said a prayer before some part of the comptetition)
[05:04:31] <largo> well, I admit.. I like playing the occasional game still too... (despite being almost 40)
[05:04:34] <l_n> competition, even.
[05:04:42] <helf|laptop> largo, nothing wrong with that :D
[05:05:01] <helf|laptop> people that decide they are too old for play are the ones that age the quickest and die the fastest
[05:05:03] <l_n> i think i'm going to locate a copy of duke nukem 2
[05:05:07] <MattLacey> I gave on PC gamging when I moved to Mac
[05:05:14] <l_n> maybe even duke nukem 1 as well
[05:05:14] <helf|laptop> thats because mac gaming sucks
[05:05:14] <helf|laptop> :p
[05:05:16] <MattLacey> I have a 360 though :)
[05:05:29] <helf|laptop> i still love my n64 and dreamcast
[05:05:33] <ianj> i'm grateful every day that i'm not a gamer because it means i can run pretty much whatever OS and platform i want
[05:05:33] <largo> l_n: amen to that. ;)
[05:05:37] <MattLacey> too much effort keeping a PC up to date with games
[05:05:42] <helf|laptop> ianj,  gamers can too
[05:05:42] <ianj> gaming pretty much tethers you to windows and PCs
[05:05:50] <helf|laptop> only if you are a *pc* gamer
[05:05:50] <MattLacey> much better to have dedicated hardware and have the games devs target a fixed platform
[05:05:51] <largo> l_n: (the stupid religious people on American Idol comment)
[05:05:58] <ianj> by gaming i mean PC gaming
[05:06:02] <l_n> largo: yeah, i kinda figured.
[05:06:03] *** Kokito has quit IRC
[05:06:05] <helf|laptop> specify :p
[05:06:05] <l_n> :)
[05:06:27] <helf|laptop> why are you watching american idol?
[05:06:36] <largo> I would still like to get Linux or something running on my old PS2 one of these days... just for geek thrills.
[05:06:42] <largo> I never got ahold of a Dreamcast...
[05:06:46] <helf|laptop> I need a spare
[05:06:48] <helf|laptop> i love mine
[05:06:50] <l_n> helf|laptop: it's on in the background.. i'm playing multiplayer Notepad.
[05:06:54] <helf|laptop> i have like 50 games for it
[05:06:55] <largo> although my buddy did and got Linux up on it with WindowMaker for one of the LWCE's we did.
[05:07:02] <helf|laptop> and an arcade controller
[05:07:04] <helf|laptop> its awesome
[05:07:16] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku
[05:07:16] <helf|laptop> i havent bothered trying linux on it
[05:07:18] <helf|laptop> kinda pointless
[05:07:34] <largo> it was just "for fun." :P
[05:07:34] <helf|laptop> i do have the mouse and keyboard for it as well
[05:07:38] <helf|laptop> heh
[05:07:41] <l_n> i had a copy of "skies of arcadia" for it once.. i also had a copy for the GC, but sold one and the other stopped working.
[05:07:43] <helf|laptop> not very exciting to me :p
[05:07:56] <l_n> helf|laptop: ^^
[05:07:57] <helf|laptop> i might try it some day when i get an ethernet adapter for it
[05:08:03] <l_n> in reference to the dreamcast
[05:08:17] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[05:08:19] <largo> well, I'm like a baby geek. far beyond the average user... but still a child to probably almost all the people in this room. ;)
[05:08:23] <helf|laptop> I haven't bought any current gen game systems yet
[05:08:30] <helf|laptop> waiting for hte next gen so prices plummet ;)
[05:08:33] <largo> so I take enjoyment out of things others take for granted.
[05:08:38] <helf|laptop> lol
[05:08:41] <helf|laptop> thats cool
[05:08:49] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku
[05:08:53] <helf|laptop> I've been getting bored with computing lately :/
[05:09:04] <helf|laptop> like, i want an ebook reader and once i get that i doubt ill touch my pc as much
[05:09:08] <largo> helf|laptop: that's why I started teaching myself Japanese. :)
[05:09:17] <helf|laptop> :)
[05:09:24] <helf|laptop> im turning into a typical user
[05:09:25] <largo> helf|laptop: I needed something new, challenging, and totally different... to open up new horizons etc.
[05:09:33] <helf|laptop> i just want to play my videos and listen ot music and nothing else anymore
[05:09:40] <helf|laptop> i should try that
[05:09:53] <helf|laptop> I do want to travel.
[05:10:05] <l_n> ich hat deutsch gelernt, aber mein deutsch ist jetzt nicht sehr gut.
[05:10:07] <largo> probably be a few more years until I make it over to Japan...
[05:10:09] <MattLacey> helf|laptop soon you'll end up with just a MacBook Pro :)
[05:10:11] <largo> but it's fun to learn.
[05:10:16] <helf|laptop> MattLacey,  uh, no
[05:10:17] <helf|laptop> :p
[05:10:20] <helf|laptop> I dislike OSX
[05:10:23] <helf|laptop> and their hardware
[05:10:23] <largo> l_n: ich nacht sprech du deutsch? :P
[05:10:24] <largo> lol
[05:10:26] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[05:10:26] <l_n> that was probably full of grammar and spelling errors.
[05:10:53] <helf|laptop> I really dislike MBP keyboards :p
[05:10:58] <helf|laptop> feel bizarre and mushy
[05:11:01] <MattLacey> lol, I find that when you get to the point where you just want something that works, Mac is the way forward
[05:11:09] <helf|laptop> I'll never get ot that point
[05:11:12] <MattLacey> never have to mess about with it
[05:11:16] <l_n> largo: that makes no sense :-/
[05:11:17] <largo> MattLacey: aside from Apple going draconian nuts lately.
[05:11:23] <helf|laptop> specially since I've had plenty of issues with our $16k mac pro at work
[05:11:27] <largo> I've decided I want nothing to do with Apple anymore.
[05:11:37] <MattLacey> yeah Apple are completely bat shit insane
[05:11:38] *** Nozy has joined #haiku
[05:11:41] <MattLacey> but I still like their products
[05:11:44] <helf|laptop> I don't get where people get the notion that macs are super stable
[05:11:47] <largo> the tablet was a totally locked down restricted "shop iTunes" device. made me sick and angry.
[05:11:51] <MattLacey> though I prefer MS accessories
[05:12:01] <helf|laptop> largo,  its a stretched iPod: Touch
[05:12:07] <largo> I'll stick with my PCs.
[05:12:15] <MattLacey> helf|laptop maybe they get that because they never have issues with their macs?
[05:12:18] <l_n> that probably should have been 'ich spreche kein deutsch' if i understand what you were saying.
[05:12:26] <largo> helf|laptop: yep. :(
[05:12:28] <MattLacey> in 2 years I've only ever had one lock up
[05:12:30] <helf|laptop> MattLacey,  they must never do anything on them besidesfacebook and itunes :p
[05:12:43] <helf|laptop> I've had all kinds of UI glitches and what not
[05:12:45] <largo> l_n: yeah. ;)
[05:12:47] <ianj> i'm distancing myself from apple even though i currently implement a lot of mac stuff
[05:12:57] <ianj> they're not going in a direction i can follow
[05:13:06] <MattLacey> I did some iPhone dev
[05:13:11] <MattLacey> couldn't bring myself to use Obj-C though
[05:13:15] <helf|laptop> ianj, that direction being "sane" ? :p
[05:13:19] <MattLacey> I used the bare minimum and did everything in C++
[05:13:21] <ver> i couldn't figure objc out :/
[05:13:22] <largo> I really really wanted a Mac when they started OSX...
[05:13:25] <l_n> ianj: i don't think even they can follow their own direction.
[05:13:27] <largo> and still did until recently...
[05:13:30] <MattLacey> and the iPad is a monumentally stupid device IMO
[05:13:41] * helf|laptop pokes JonathanThompson
[05:13:41] <ianj> the direction being all-in-one machines designed to be turnkey systems
[05:13:54] <helf|laptop> ianj,  "appliances"
[05:13:58] <helf|laptop> I believe that is the word
[05:14:09] <ianj> moving conventional desktops upmarket
[05:14:22] <l_n> isn't that what helped kill Be, Inc.? (i.e. attempting the 'internet appliance' with BeIA)
[05:14:28] <helf|laptop> they did it too early
[05:14:34] <ver> whenever i set up a 'turnkey solution' i crossed my arms resolutely, demanding that it prove it by turning my key for me.
[05:14:36] <helf|laptop> right now "cloud" BS is all the rage
[05:14:48] * largo generally hates the 'cloud' talk...
[05:14:52] <helf|laptop> Its nothing new
[05:14:52] <largo> although I use Gmail.
[05:14:55] * MattLacey is a cloud dev
[05:14:57] <helf|laptop> everyone treats it as such
[05:14:57] <largo> but that's about as "cloud" as I get.
[05:15:01] <l_n> no, thank you.. i'll keep my data and applications to myself
[05:15:01] <helf|laptop> yeah, heh
[05:15:04] <helf|laptop> I used flickr too
[05:15:08] <MattLacey> force.com can be super powerful
[05:15:11] <ver> gmail isn't cloud, it's a just squirrelmail on ajax..
[05:15:12] <helf|laptop> but I keep local copies of everything
[05:15:15] <MattLacey> but at the same time it can be a pain in the ass
[05:15:24] <MattLacey> I'm happiest with low level C coding
[05:15:25] <helf|laptop> I love squirrelmail
[05:15:32] <helf|laptop> we use it at work
[05:15:36] <helf|laptop> Its wonderful
[05:15:40] <ver> it's alright
[05:15:45] <helf|laptop> it doesntdo anything
[05:15:47] <helf|laptop> thats why i love it
[05:15:52] <l_n> squirrelmail? /me asks google.
[05:15:58] <ver> it does attachments nicely
[05:16:00] * largo too
[05:16:08] <helf|laptop> the fancy features like address completion firefox does after you send an email once to that address :p
[05:16:09] <ver> and very easy to mod, like adding pgp if you want
[05:16:24] * helf|laptop hugs squirrel
[05:16:33] <ver> i have this weird... like, hate on for it sorta, it's going away in time though
[05:16:48] <helf|laptop> everytime i use it I love it more
[05:16:52] <ver> i always figured squirrelmail was to blame for having super slow mail browsing times, but it turned out to be my imap server
[05:16:59] <helf|laptop> since its super fast and doesnt try to do anything but list your mail
[05:17:30] <ver> well, i do love courier.
[05:17:55] <ver> i changed it up, my MTA delivers my emails directly to a MySQL table
[05:18:00] <l_n> hrm.. maybe the *nix guys should be pointed at squirrelmail to be reminded of the Do One Thing And Do It Well philosophy
[05:18:04] <ver> no more 2-files to an e-mail rubbish
[05:18:24] <ver> l_n: it was developed on/for *nix, though..
[05:18:29] <helf|laptop> l_n, that philosophy is sadly dying :(
[05:18:37] <ver> don't blame the *nix guys, blame the win32 converts.
[05:18:48] <helf|laptop> I love gadgets
[05:18:52] <helf|laptop> when they are electronic :p
[05:19:04] <ver> plugin or battery powered?
[05:19:11] <helf|laptop> I prefer electronics devices/software that do maybe a few things well and not tons of shit
[05:19:13] * OmniMancer murders squirrel for being lua
[05:19:20] <ver> OmniMancer: it's php
[05:19:30] <helf|laptop> it may use lua scripts, tho
[05:19:34] <helf|laptop> ive never paid any attention
[05:19:36] * OmniMancer murders the squirrel that is lua
[05:19:37] <helf|laptop> i just know i love it
[05:19:40] <ver> i don't think it does
[05:20:03] <ver> back in the day, i wrote a webmail app using XUL, Ajax, and ... get this... C.
[05:20:10] <helf|laptop> heh
[05:20:22] <l_n> hrm.. now where in the hell did web+ put the file i just d/l'ed?
[05:20:26] * OmniMancer disambiguates his reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_(programming_language)
[05:20:29] <l_n> it never asked...
[05:20:30] <ver> l_n: /home/user
[05:20:38] <l_n> ver: thanks.
[05:20:43] <helf|laptop> the more computers advance, the less I want to use them :p
[05:20:44] <helf|laptop> its kidna sad
[05:20:57] <ver> helf|laptop: it is, i agree, but i can relate.
[05:21:08] <ver> the older my hardware is, the faster it boots.  i don't understand that...
[05:21:09] <jmayfield_> helf|laptop, youre missing the point.. i think its just you getting older.. heh
[05:21:17] <helf|laptop> probably
[05:21:18] <helf|laptop> :p
[05:21:32] <helf|laptop> its also the issue with things trying to be smarter than you are that gets on my nerves
[05:21:53] <ver> or the iphone, merely believing its smarter.
[05:21:54] <helf|laptop> like the newer cars that parallel park themselves... i mean, c'mon, is it really that hard? :p
[05:21:57] <OmniMancer> things should be as smart as they need to be
[05:22:14] <helf|laptop> people dont want to learn, they just want stuff done for them.
[05:22:21] <OmniMancer> the need to parallel park should be eliminated
[05:22:22] <helf|laptop> of course you have people arguing thats how it should be..
[05:22:27] <ver> helf|laptop: if it requires Joe Slob to lift a finger or bat an eyelash, then yes, it's a big fscking pita.
[05:22:31] <l_n> hrm.. too bad the cyberpunk equipment hasn't been invented yet....
[05:22:33] <helf|laptop> lol
[05:22:45] * ver agrees.  ver wants a Pip Boy 3000.
[05:22:48] <helf|laptop> l_n, oh man. tech like in ghost in the shell would be great
[05:22:48] * l_n has always thought shadowrun's deckers seemed cool :)
[05:23:05] <helf|laptop> of the "brain pal" in old mans war
[05:23:17] <OmniMancer> this should be done by making the car be at your destination with you in it, not go there, be there1
[05:23:18] <helf|laptop> *or
[05:23:35] <ver> hey good one helf, +5 for the obscure reference.
[05:23:43] <helf|laptop> I love that book :D
[05:23:51] <MattLacey> the idea of drive by wire cars scares the shit out of me
[05:23:57] <MattLacey> I can deal with it on the throttle
[05:23:57] <helf|laptop> MattLacey, me too!
[05:24:00] <MattLacey> but with steering
[05:24:05] <helf|laptop> like the beemers
[05:24:07] <OmniMancer> not drive by wire cars
[05:24:11] <OmniMancer> cars that do not drive
[05:24:12] <helf|laptop> i dont trust electronics enough for that
[05:24:14] <MattLacey> I value a physical connection between me and the angle the wheels are pointing
[05:24:21] <OmniMancer> cars that are where you want them to be
[05:24:24] <ver> i just read a great cypunk novel, lemmie find it...
[05:24:33] <OmniMancer> I don't trust a computer to even do the throttle :P
[05:24:37] <helf|laptop> MattLacey, hear the latest? toyota will have a sudden acceleration override built into all their cars by 2011.. wtf
[05:24:55] <helf|laptop> ill have to see how that works. because there are plenty of times when you mihgt *need* sudden acceleration
[05:25:06] <jmayfield_> I think a lot of people dont understand how to "feel" the road through the steering weel
[05:25:12] <OmniMancer> like if the car behind you does it :P
[05:25:12] <helf|laptop> jmayfield,  they dont
[05:25:24] <MattLacey> I don't know what's going on with Toyota
[05:25:27] <MattLacey> they used to make lodas of cool cars
[05:25:28] <jmayfield_> and when you mention it, they think youre being all poetic bullshitty
[05:25:28] <helf|laptop> jmayfield,  most people barely know how to direct the car in a specific direction
[05:25:28] <ver> i like how people buy SUVs to feel 'safer'.
[05:25:34] <MattLacey> these days it's all for old people
[05:25:41] <OmniMancer> I still say we should get rid of cars and replace them with things that let you be places :P
[05:25:41] * MattLacey used to have a Celica GT-Four
[05:25:43] <MattLacey> loved that car
[05:25:46] <ianj> yeah
[05:25:51] <helf|laptop> lol OmniMancer
[05:25:58] <ianj> toyotas turned into the dowdiest cars on the road
[05:25:58] <MattLacey> OmniMancer they should do that so I can drive around without other people on the roads :)
[05:26:03] <l_n> jmayfield_: agreed.. i view cars as cybernetic organisms when they are in motion. machines controlled by a human brain if the human is properly attuned to how the vehicle is telling him/her what's going on.
[05:26:11] <OmniMancer> but you can't drive around :P
[05:26:14] <MattLacey> Celica + MR2 + Supra were all awesome in the early 90s
[05:26:19] <MattLacey> WTF happened :(
[05:26:23] <helf|laptop> jmayfield,  i know exactly what you mean tho. you cna feel how well your car is running too pretty easily. ill sit in someones car and tell them they need a tune up and they are all "what?"
[05:26:46] <l_n> MattLacey: capitalism (read: greed, avarice, etc.) :P
[05:26:50] <OmniMancer> most people are idiots
[05:26:52] <helf|laptop> most people just see cars as a way to get to point B from point A
[05:26:54] <helf|laptop> nothing most
[05:26:57] <helf|laptop> *more
[05:27:14] <helf|laptop> They also lose all fear of dying when they get behind the steering wheel, it seems :p
[05:27:15] <MattLacey> aye
[05:27:17] <OmniMancer> I say we make them into things that make point A and B the same point :P
[05:27:26] <helf|laptop> OmniMancer, that would rock
[05:27:48] <helf|laptop> "you cant go faster than the speed of light, that is just ridiculous. instead we move the universe around the space ship"
[05:27:52] <l_n> OmniMancer: it seems you're speaking of folding space.. that requires a *lot* of mass in the middle (as far as i currently understand the concept)
[05:28:01] <helf|laptop> </ horribly butchered quote>
[05:28:18] <l_n> "They've gone plaid...."
[05:28:22] <helf|laptop> lol
[05:28:51] <l_n> i need to watch that movie again.
[05:28:57] <helf|laptop> i have it on dvd
[05:29:11] <l_n> Spaceballs: The Flamethrower
[05:29:14] <helf|laptop> i want to set up an HTPC at some point and dump all my dvds to it
[05:29:17] <ver> http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/8086 <- Here it is!  Great Cyberpunk novel.
[05:29:24] <MattLacey> ok time to concentrate - got to push some stuff live
[05:29:34] *** MattLacey is now known as MattLacey|AWOL
[05:29:36] <helf|laptop> never read it, thanks Vampyre
[05:29:38] <helf|laptop> er
[05:29:38] <helf|laptop> ver
[05:29:46] <OmniMancer> l_n: I would much rather skip all that complicated theory and such and just build something that does something
[05:29:55] <OmniMancer> it does not do it by a means it just does it
[05:30:00] <helf|laptop> If anyone hasn't read "Old Man's War" yet, go get it
[05:30:01] <helf|laptop> its awesome
[05:30:18] <OmniMancer> whether the thing we call "physics" says it should or not
[05:30:22] <helf|laptop> its by john scalzi
[05:30:39] <ver> have you read the sequels?
[05:30:44] <helf|laptop> nope
[05:30:52] <helf|laptop> my boss has them, but i havent borrowed them yet
[05:30:55] <OmniMancer> or even if you do not make point A and B the same you then just allow you to be at point A and then be at point B
[05:31:19] <OmniMancer> but this will take much thought :P
[05:31:25] <helf|laptop> or just have it put you in a stasis so it seems like it happened instantly
[05:31:43] <l_n> again the only way i can think to do that is folding space.. or dis/re-integration of matter (somewhat like star trek transporters)
[05:31:50] <ver> well, you can just 'svn merge' with reality see... then resolve such conflicts along the way.
[05:32:19] <helf|laptop> some days I wonder what it would be like to be a normal blissfully ignorant passerby
[05:32:19] <ver> besides, what's your problem with the ol' trebuchet?
[05:32:54] <OmniMancer> helf|laptop that is too much trouble
[05:32:59] <helf|laptop> it seems like the more I learn the more disgruntled I get :p
[05:33:12] <OmniMancer> also l_n you are not getting the point
[05:33:23] <OmniMancer> the point is we do not want to think of a way
[05:33:27] <OmniMancer> there will be no way
[05:33:31] <OmniMancer> it shall occur
[05:33:34] <OmniMancer> regardless of way
[05:33:42] <helf|laptop> you need a probability engine
[05:33:45] <OmniMancer> :)
[05:33:49] <OmniMancer> that is closer :P
[05:33:58] <OmniMancer> we need a thing that makes abstractions in reality
[05:34:17] <helf|laptop> acid, lsd, etc. do that :p
[05:35:34] *** bjl- has joined #haiku
[05:38:03] <l_n> helf|laptop: infinite improbability engine is better.
[05:38:18] <mmadia> HHGTTG?
[05:38:27] <l_n> hells yeah.
[05:39:13] <helf|laptop> yeah
[05:39:14] <helf|laptop> heh
[05:39:32] <CIA-50> scottmc * r618 /haikuports/trunk/dev-lang/yasm/ (yasm-0.7.1.bep yasm-0.8.0.bep): Fixed install to cd into the directory first.
[05:39:42] <ver> well, at the stage of computer language development, and the rate of progression...
[05:40:17] *** timezer0 has quit IRC
[05:40:31] <helf|laptop> anyone have any interest in two areca arc-1110 sata raid controllers? lightly used. run on anything from 32/33 pci up to 64/133, have 256mb ddr333 cache, raid-6 in hardware, quad ports...
[05:40:31] <ver> soon a natural language 'directive' will be able to execute a cascade of computations.. like.. 'write me a program that shows me how old i am' and bam, it'll spit out a perl-qt script, or something.
[05:40:35] <helf|laptop> in original boxes
[05:41:03] <helf|laptop> ver : im waiting for startrekesque computing
[05:41:07] <ver> after that, you'll just need to ask your pc to invent a teleporter.
[05:41:56] <l_n> hopefully it goes better than asking a computer for a cup of tea...
[05:41:59] <ver> ... of course, you'll end up with a teleporter written in Perl and Qt, meaning your buttons won't be aligned when you arrive and you won't be able to speak properly on the other side due to disgusting syntax
[05:42:11] *** timezer0 has joined #haiku
[05:42:31] * largo snickers ;)
[05:42:49] <l_n> at?
[05:43:01] *** DBAlex has quit IRC
[05:43:06] <bjl-> ver: doesn't qtdesigner do that already?
[05:43:15] <largo> l_n: ver's comment. ;)
[05:43:32] <largo> I was pondering the singularity.
[05:43:51] <largo> computer consciousness... self awareness... exponential "evolution" etc.
[05:44:04] <largo> and I wonder if they'd care what we asked for at that point.
[05:44:06] <bjl-> largo: it happened last week, it was on slashdot
[05:44:17] <largo> :O
[05:44:26] * largo unplugs his computer and hides under the couch.
[05:44:44] <l_n> is there a newer port of transmission than the .70 zipfile on haikuware.com?
[05:44:45] <bjl-> I would hide under my couch too if slashdot suddenly became self-aware
[05:45:29] <mmadia> l_n : look in ports.haiku-files.org's source tree.
[05:45:42] <l_n> the singularity frightens me. because i know it will occur, and i'm of the opinion that the machines *will* decide we're obsolete.
[05:45:51] <mmadia> you'll find it's bep file, which can help instruct you to build it.  gcc4 will be needed though.
[05:45:57] <largo> l_n: that's kind of the direction I lean.
[05:46:30] <mmadia> and if you do manage to build it, directions would be appreciated -- as i'd like to make it an OptionalPackage in the near future.
[05:47:27] <l_n> is intltool somewhere in that tree as well?
[05:47:59] <l_n> configure on 1.91 died looking for intltool >=0.40.0
[05:48:03] <mmadia> not that i recall, but the newer versions of inttool will build.
[05:48:50] <mmadia> gettext, intltool, libevent, XML-Parser are some deps taht come to mind.
[05:49:37] <l_n> oh, btw, i may have lost the modified xerces-c 3.1.0 src tree when my src partition got hosed.
[05:49:49] <l_n> but at least i got a working package up on haikuware :P
[05:51:53] <l_n> hrm.. tracking down build deps is so much fun...
[05:52:05] <mmadia> that's why i haven't done it yet :P
[05:52:33] <l_n> xml::parser is first
[05:55:17] *** Kokito has joined #haiku
[06:02:55] <ver> so... should bon echo (bezillabrowser) be able to select the 'right' font for a given language/encoding automatically?
[06:04:05] <ver> actually, i've noticed the system fonts don't switch automatically either, so i assume not.
[06:04:13] <Kokito> ver, I don-t believe it is automatic
[06:04:24] <l_n> funny how perl modules seem to assume you're building them on a *nix machine.
[06:04:39] <Kokito> there is no font overlay (yet) in Haiku
[06:04:50] <ver> the problem is if i set my language font, it won't render latin characters at all (since this font contains no latin characters)
[06:05:47] <ver> font overlay is like.. font organiser?
[06:05:53] <l_n> cyrillic or one of the asian languages?
[06:05:57] <Kokito> you can set different fonts for different languages
[06:06:15] <ver> l_n: shavian, en_GB@Shaw
[06:07:25] * Kokito is not sure what ver is trying to achieve
[06:08:16] <ver> http://osgrid.foxmoxie.net/?action=lang&lang=shaw
[06:08:17] <AlienSoldier> i want telepath font, font you don't have to read, they appear directly in your mind
[06:08:55] <mmadia> l_n : check haiku port for the XML Parser build log. ;)
[06:09:19] <ver> this example works fine in firefox on my system.  i could update my stylesheets to force andagi font for my shavian text, but ... well, other sites in shavian probably won't do that, it would be a hack :/
[06:10:31] * l_n wonders where stippi is
[06:10:47] <l_n> stippi: wo bist du?
[06:11:10] <ver> stippi: anata wa doko?
[06:11:29] <l_n> web+ is segfaulting. (built from svn)
[06:11:51] <mmadia> schlafen!
[06:12:09] * largo didn't realize that ver or stippi spoke Japanese.
[06:12:39] <ver> i don't know stippi at all..
[06:13:18] <l_n> mmadia: isn't like 07:00 in deutschland right now?
[06:13:19] <ver> and.. i don't
[06:13:21] <ver> :/
[06:13:49] <ver> l_n: i think so, 6am in france.
[06:13:53] <ver> which isn't far
[06:13:56] <mmadia> about, yes.  but he's been working a lot these past days.
[06:13:56] <l_n> s/n\'t\ l/n\'t\ it\ l/
[06:14:31] <DraX> 6.19 in .de
[06:14:31] <mmadia> i hear his current employer is a bunch of slavedrivers.
[06:14:44] <largo> ;)
[06:14:47] <DraX> [21:17] alexbl@fortitudo: ~> env TZ=Europe/Berlin date
[06:14:48] <DraX> Wed Mar  3 06:19:16 CET 2010
[06:16:46] <l_n> ah, i see. sprechen über schlafen, ich muss jetzt schlafen.
[06:16:49] <l_n> gn8
[06:17:11] <mmadia> spater.
[06:17:18] *** l_n has quit IRC
[06:17:30] <helf|laptop> mmadia, im breathing new life into that dual tualatin :p its becoming my file server/torrent box.
[06:17:55] <mmadia> what happened to shipping it south?
[06:18:19] <helf|laptop> I think what usually happens, Xeon4D ended up broke or something :)
[06:18:37] <helf|laptop> im going to buy another case for it that can hold a lot of drives and my use my areca controllers in it.
[06:21:23] <DraX> i wonder what lovely features stippi will bring us today :)
[06:23:57] <ver> probably nothing amazing.. just embedded flash, java, and vrml...
[06:24:02] * ver shrugs.
[06:24:50] <ver> That's pretty awesome that Haiku has Esperanto localisation.
[06:25:03] <helf|laptop> That is still alive?
[06:26:28] <ver> "Mi ne scias" I dunno..
[06:26:39] <ver> Last patch that I see is from 2 months ago.
[06:26:51] *** m__ has joined #haiku
[06:26:54] <ver> rebooting haiku into esper now though, so i'll let you know.
[06:27:26] <helf|laptop> have fun with that
[06:27:42] <ver> oh my.  KDL.
[06:27:48] <helf|laptop> Unless you are one of those lucky people that can pick up languages fast, esperanto has always seemed like an incredible waste of time
[06:27:59] *** bjl- has quit IRC
[06:28:16] <ver> *shrug* unless you want to read erotica at work in a constructed language
[06:28:39] <ver> actually, i doubt any exists
[06:29:05] <ver> speaking of, the livecd language/keymap selection doesn't offer esperanto
[06:29:10] <ver> so i'm inclined to think it is gone
[06:30:01] *** m_ has quit IRC
[06:33:04] <CIA-50> augiedoggie * r619 /haikuports/trunk/net-misc/curl/ (curl.OptionalPackageDescription curl-7.20.0.bep):
[06:33:04] <CIA-50> Updated curl to 7.20.0
[06:33:04] <CIA-50> Went with the autoconf version since their cmake files are known to have problems in this release.
[06:35:26] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC
[06:38:24] *** Andrius has joined #haiku
[06:41:49] <ver> i recently found my old R5 disc AND original box :)
[06:43:27] <CIA-50> scottmc * r620 /haikuports/trunk/dev-libs/openssl/ (4 files in 2 dirs): updated openssl to 0.9.8m
[06:43:32] <ver> and the locale selection app seems to be busted, or the control for it is, or the data it uses.  i add Esperanto, close, then when i reopen Locale, it has Azberjanian or somesuch selected instead.
[06:48:29] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku
[06:49:24] *** MattLacey|AWOL has quit IRC
[06:52:07] *** m__ has quit IRC
[07:11:48] <ver> wow.. ipv6 is in the future features plan, go haiku :p
[07:12:05] <mmadia> yeah, as unscheduled :P
[07:13:20] <Kokito> ver, stippi ha neteru to omoimasu :)
[07:14:23] <ver> Kokito: i don't know what that means :/
[07:15:36] <ver> mmadia: the IP stack of Haiku seems to suffer the same affliction as Syllable, IPv4 is inter-mingled into the general networking code- particularly, the interface code.
[07:16:08] <mmadia> ver ,for any other person, i'd suggest dev.haiku-os.org/newticket
[07:16:30] <Kokito> ver, you asked where was stippi in Japanese, right. well, 'stippi ha neteru to omoimasu' in JApanese means 'I think stippi is sleeping' :)
[07:16:54] <ver> well i wouldn't make a ticket, i'd just rip it apart and reassemble both pieces, leaving a trail of stepped-on-toes and a page or two of patches in my wake.
[07:16:57] <largo> can't we type in Japanese here?
[07:17:22] <Kokito> yes you can largo
[07:17:34] <largo> stippiさんはねてるとおもいます。
[07:17:36] <mmadia> and those patches would be best submitted as a /newticket
[07:17:43] <largo> but can others see it?
[07:17:49] <ver> certainly
[07:17:50] <Kokito> I can :)
[07:18:03] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku
[07:18:07] <Kokito> largo, for Japanese you can use #haiku-jp
[07:18:19] <largo> Kokito: interesting, thanks. :)
[07:18:21] * largo joins
[07:18:27] <largo> I'm just a beginner though. ;)
[07:18:28] <ver> #はいく-jp? :D
[07:19:45] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku
[07:23:10] <Kokito> anyway, movie time here. bbl
[07:26:02] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC
[07:26:10] <largo> later. :)
[07:45:22] *** fhein has joined #haiku
[07:47:12] *** PathagenX has quit IRC
[07:47:14] *** enmodal has joined #haiku
[07:51:55] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku
[07:59:05] *** Kokito has quit IRC
[08:02:10] *** Nozy has quit IRC
[08:05:02] *** linkslice has joined #haiku
[08:05:15] <linkslice> so what's the chances someone in here has a copy of virtual void?
[08:05:27] *** linkslice has quit IRC
[08:05:39] *** linkslice has joined #haiku
[08:05:42] <linkslice> oops
[08:09:41] *** e-jones has joined #haiku
[08:10:05] *** aschueler has joined #haiku
[08:10:16] <ver> is that the name of software, or do you actually want to see a virtual void?
[08:10:31] <linkslice> the beos song from back in the day
[08:11:06] <linkslice> i think it came on the beos pro 5 disk, but mine broke a few years ago
[08:11:10] <linkslice> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAK7GyxVzFk
[08:11:34] <MrSunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAK7GyxVzFk
[08:11:36] <MrSunshine> exactly :P
[08:11:41] <linkslice> lol
[08:11:52] <linkslice> I'm trying to find m3
[08:11:55] <linkslice> mp3
[08:11:56] <geist> http://classic.catrec.com/vv.mp3
[08:12:00] *** impy has quit IRC
[08:12:00] <geist> from the source
[08:12:26] <geist> well, that may have been one of the other mixes
[08:12:34] <geist> i think baron recorded a zillion versions
[08:13:15] <linkslice> i'm getting a 404
[08:13:15] *** impy has joined #haiku
[08:13:19] <geist> http://classic.catrec.com/cs/virtual-void.mp3
[08:13:26] <geist> another version
[08:14:04] <MrSunshine> only one thing missing for me to run haiku on my brand new laptop, network driver ...
[08:14:06] <MrSunshine> sigh
[08:14:09] <geist> another http://classic.catrec.com/vv2.1.mp3
[08:14:16] <MrSunshine> got it working yesterday but crashes when i plug in the cable :P
[08:14:44] <geist> oh, dont forget http://classic.catrec.com/5038.mp3
[08:15:55] <linkslice> ahhh there we go :-)
[08:17:39] <linkslice> baron arnold do 5038 too?
[08:18:11] <geist> yes
[08:19:34] <linkslice> I wonder if he'll do a haiku song :-)
[08:19:52] *** impy has quit IRC
[08:20:43] *** impy has joined #haiku
[08:24:19] <linkslice> now I got you all listening to the old be songs  :-D
[08:25:30] <MrSunshine> i need a smoke and a coffe
[08:25:32] <MrSunshine> dammit
[08:31:01] <AlienSoldier> a duo with JLG would be nice :P
[08:32:02] *** The123king has joined #haiku
[08:33:27] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC
[08:44:07] *** cpr420 has quit IRC
[08:55:26] *** PacoLinux has quit IRC
[08:56:57] <CIA-50> scottmc * r35732 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/ (OptionalBuildFeatures OptionalPackages): Updated openssl to 0.9.8m and curl to 7.20.0
[08:57:21] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku
[09:01:05] *** _4pLaY has joined #haiku
[09:15:29] *** hdanak has quit IRC
[09:17:25] *** stargater has joined #haiku
[09:17:37] <stargater> Hi
[09:20:28] *** linkslice has quit IRC
[09:23:52] * JonathanThompson loves getting email from recruiters after midnight
[09:26:35] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku
[09:27:39] * JonathanThompson poits PathagenX
[09:30:05] *** hdanak has joined #haiku
[09:36:19] *** stargater has quit IRC
[09:42:26] <MrSunshine> i must be doing something wrong
[09:42:43] <MrSunshine> why isnt my mail to haiku-development at freelists dot org getting there? :/
[09:43:15] <MrSunshine> maybe cause im not a member? .. humm
[09:49:12] <MrSunshine> yeey now it worked =)
[09:49:26] * JonathanThompson dis-members MrSunshine for grins
[09:49:37] <MrSunshine> meh!
[09:50:08] *** J-Ho has joined #haiku
[09:57:30] <ver> so... portaudio isn't as portable as i thought.
[09:58:48] <MrSunshine> is "port" standing for portable? :P
[09:59:19] * ver nods. Linux, Mac, OR windows.
[09:59:32] * ver explodes from so much selections in brain.
[10:00:10] <ver> the crazy part is each one has like 3 apis in there.  alsa, asihpi, asio, coreaudio dsound, jack, oss, wasapi, wdmks, wmme...
[10:00:12] <PathagenX> You poited me D:
[10:00:24] <surrounder> eekalsa :(
[10:05:15] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku
[10:11:15] <ver> i'm familiar with alsa and oss audio IO, and portaudio, but... the 'beos' way seems sorta... hairy.
[10:11:59] <MrSunshine> you can be hairy!
[10:12:00] <MrSunshine> ;P
[10:12:30] *** Kroki has joined #haiku
[10:13:06] <ver> i mean it's an awful lot of code to simply open the audio output and start streaming s16le samples
[10:18:42] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku
[10:25:36] *** aldeck has joined #haiku
[10:25:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck
[10:25:36] <PathagenX> More robust systems can sometimes not avoid being inherently overdesigned when you want to do something simple.
[10:32:19] *** ukev has joined #haiku
[10:34:06] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku
[10:35:36] <ver> well, luckily libao is ported, which will make things simpler...  has anybody tried compiling mysql on haiku?
[10:38:03] <waveshaper> ver: does portaudio include all the libs nomatter if you only use it for one platform?
[10:38:38] <ver> waveshaper: i'm not sure, but i wouldn't expect so
[10:38:47] <waveshaper> ver: yeh. hm.
[10:40:16] <MrSunshine> ver, nop but had postgresql or whatever its called working with obdc or whatever that is called working before :)
[10:41:45] <waveshaper> ver: I played abit with port audio but what I didnt like was that the implementation from platform to platform (talking about the user code, not the lib) change to much
[10:42:18] <waveshaper> ver: so to initialize the lib depending on what backend API you used changed. which force the code to be updated for each platform when you ported
[10:42:29] <waveshaper> so I ended up doing it myself
[10:45:24] <OmniMancer> well I doubt you have coreaudio on windows...
[10:56:23] *** aschueler has quit IRC
[10:56:40] *** timezer0 has quit IRC
[10:57:23] *** hdanak has quit IRC
[10:58:48] *** aschueler has joined #haiku
[10:59:29] *** timezer0 has joined #haiku
[11:02:22] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku
[11:04:38] *** tenzindd has joined #haiku
[11:05:22] *** tenzindd has quit IRC
[11:11:22] *** beos_zealot has joined #haiku
[11:12:00] *** hdanak has joined #haiku
[11:18:24] <ver> hum, that was a quick port..
[11:19:17] <ver> under half an hour to pull portaudio out and move it to libao, which i've never worked with in my life :p
[11:21:16] <ver> and... that's it, i've ported a tv station to haiku.  :/
[11:21:22] <ver> easier than i thought
[11:23:21] <OmniMancer> ??
[11:23:26] <OmniMancer> a tv station?
[11:26:17] <CIA-50> axeld * r35733 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/cache/block_cache.cpp: (log message trimmed)
[11:26:18] <CIA-50> * Replaced cached_block::accessed (the number of accesses) with last_accessed
[11:26:18] <CIA-50> (the time of the last access), as what we really want is a frequency/last
[11:26:18] <CIA-50> access time scoring, and accessed alone is useless for that.
[11:26:18] <CIA-50> * put_cached_block() no longer frees any unused blocks.
[11:26:18] <CIA-50> * The low memory handler will now only lock the cache if there is something
[11:26:19] <CIA-50> to do. Also, it did not take address space warnings into account.
[11:28:34] <ver> yeah, for the community channel in town...
[11:29:14] <ver> it reads a schedule from a mysql database, plays back via opengl or sdl and portaudio (now libao).  it uses lavc to decode
[11:30:03] *** BeFan has joined #haiku
[11:30:07] *** PathagenX has quit IRC
[11:30:08] <BeFan> Free Lockerz invite - http://mylro.org/lockerz/
[11:30:29] *** BeFan has left #haiku
[11:33:08] <ver> the controlling interface is in Qt, along with the channel guide and community info (basically a slideshow) apps and i haven't compiled Qt on my haiku boxes yet, but i must say, this 1:1 port with only *minor* tweaks outperforms the linux version on the same hardware, i'm shocked
[11:33:09] *** stargater has joined #haiku
[11:33:12] <stargater> hi
[11:33:16] <ver> heya star.
[11:33:24] <stargater> hi ver
[11:33:49] <OmniMancer> does this broadcast anywhere?
[11:34:07] <OmniMancer> also yay
[11:38:22] <ver> fort vermilion, alberta, but it's regional cable, not OTA
[11:39:51] <ver> er, in canada :)
[11:42:35] <stargater> cu
[11:42:48] *** stargater has quit IRC
[11:44:44] <OmniMancer> yay canada
[11:45:01] *** ukev has quit IRC
[11:49:38] <ver> mysql will take loads of coaxing to compile, lots of added #ifdef's
[11:49:38] *** hdanak has quit IRC
[11:50:09] <ver> but i shall submit the patches.
[11:51:27] *** Xeon4D has quit IRC
[11:51:37] <OmniMancer> I should check llvm still compiles
[11:51:43] <OmniMancer> or poke someone else to
[11:58:16] <ver> i don't really understand how to get sourcecode from haikuports
[11:58:25] <ver> forget really, i don't understand at all.
[11:59:07] *** diogen has joined #haiku
[12:00:03] <OmniMancer> :(
[12:00:16] <OmniMancer> why do you want sourcecode from hiakuports?
[12:01:44] <ver> i just want to grab some libraries for my gcc4 system
[12:01:58] <ver> but nearly all of the binary versions are gcc2 compiled
[12:02:31] <mmadia> some packages, are gcc in-sensitive.
[12:02:36] <aldeck> ver i only matters for c++ libs
[12:02:39] <aldeck> hey mmadia :)
[12:02:45] <mmadia> morning :)
[12:03:38] <aldeck> ver: but in any case, haikuports hosts patches and build instructions
[12:03:48] <aldeck> no source per se
[12:04:10] <OmniMancer> indeed
[12:04:23] <mmadia> ... which is something that doesn't sit well with me.
[12:04:24] <aldeck> (and binaries)
[12:04:29] <OmniMancer> can someone pleaseplease please check out llvm from SVN and build it with cmake?
[12:04:58] <mmadia> i hear OmniMancer was wanting to do it  ;)
[12:06:23] * OmniMancer swats at mmadia!
[12:09:41] *** hdanak has joined #haiku
[12:10:29] *** knottnhupfer has joined #haiku
[12:11:17] <ver> hey mmadia.
[12:11:57] *** diogen[ru] has joined #haiku
[12:11:58] <mmadia> morning
[12:11:59] <ver> you told me to pester you constantly about the bug tracker bug until you could 'takes nos mores'.
[12:12:16] <mmadia> right, what's the error again?
[12:12:41] <ver> actually, there's already an outstanding bug on it on the forums
[12:13:01] <mmadia> link?
[12:13:17] <ver> http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/trac_bug_not_letting_me_register_devhaikuosorg
[12:13:29] <ver> well, not exactly, but his error output matches mine.
[12:14:11] *** diogen has quit IRC
[12:14:12] *** diogen[ru] is now known as diogen
[12:17:41] <mmadia> ver : http://imagebin.org/87334 ?
[12:18:26] *** Colin_Finck has joined #haiku
[12:19:45] *** bjl has joined #haiku
[12:21:43] <mmadia> ver : try now.
[12:24:49] <bjl> morning
[12:27:45] *** bjl has left #haiku
[12:30:13] *** bjl has joined #haiku
[12:37:42] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku
[12:38:36] *** knottnhupfer has quit IRC
[12:38:50] <waveshaper> OmniMancer: does kernel streaming count as coreaudio? :p
[12:39:08] <OmniMancer> I mean the mac library :P
[12:39:17] <waveshaper> oh pf :p
[12:39:27] <waveshaper> see thats why I should own a mac aswell :/
[12:39:52] <OmniMancer> you also don't have any of the windows ones on linux
[12:40:06] <OmniMancer> so it could not include them regardless of platform :P
[12:42:18] <waveshaper> mh
[12:42:41] <waveshaper> kernel streaming on windows was a hack though :p
[12:42:56] <waveshaper> something they had to do to overcome the huge latency pre sp2 for xp
[12:43:10] <waveshaper> what it did was simple, skip the mixer
[12:43:13] <waveshaper> gained 30ms :p
[12:43:26] <OmniMancer> :P
[12:43:40] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku
[12:43:54] <OmniMancer> too bad per app volume control only appeared in vista
[12:44:15] <waveshaper> mhm
[12:44:28] <waveshaper> its painfull to see things that take so long before its considered
[12:44:55] <waveshaper> thats also why I get happy when I looked at the beos api for the first time and saw how they handled samples
[12:45:21] <waveshaper> modular mixer, extensive formats ++
[12:45:53] <OmniMancer> beos | haiku >> windows
[12:47:52] <waveshaper> its easy to fall into flaming windows ++, but from a developers perspective looking at that API, its impressive I think. sure it probably had its missing bits, as Ive also read in logs from haiku devs that they add this and that feature. but the layout is nice, naming, syntaxes etc
[12:48:02] *** raichoo has joined #haiku
[12:48:37] <waveshaper> and having a good API helps developing good software because it forces a pattern I think. having a bad API again does the oposite
[12:49:45] <OmniMancer> mhmm
[12:50:56] *** gwenael has joined #haiku
[12:53:34] *** gwenael has quit IRC
[12:54:07] *** gwenael has joined #haiku
[12:57:51] *** alwaysGam3 has joined #haiku
[12:59:27] *** Colin_Finck is now known as Colin_Finck|afk
[13:00:16] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC
[13:02:38] *** timezer0 has quit IRC
[13:04:45] *** timezer0 has joined #haiku
[13:05:02] <CIA-50> mmadia * r35734 /haiku/trunk/data/bin/install-wifi-firmwares.sh: Fixed a typo in DownloadFileIfNotCached. Fixes #5519.
[13:09:23] <ver> mmadia: seems to have worked!
[13:27:29] *** leszek has joined #haiku
[13:27:33] *** Animal-X has joined #haiku
[13:27:41] <leszek> hi
[13:30:00] <ver> hey leszek
[13:30:13] <ver> you didn't file a bug report on your stylededit issue :/
[13:30:21] <ver> .. so i did it for ya
[13:30:43] <leszek> ah ok
[13:30:49] <leszek> yeah it was late yesterday :P
[13:30:54] *** Colin_Finck|afk is now known as Colin_Finck
[13:33:19] <mmadia> ver : iirc, ticket reporters are automatically CC'd
[13:34:06] <aldeck> true, and also if you commented once on a ticket
[13:34:28] *** raichoo has quit IRC
[13:34:48] <ver> good to know, i wasn't sure, hehe.  but it put my addy there in italics so..
[13:35:20] <aldeck> ver: np :)
[13:41:23] * ver . o O ( i'm betting i should check that InitCheck() == B_OK prior to statting, now that i think about it. )
[13:48:15] *** sprma has joined #haiku
[13:53:54] *** Advant has quit IRC
[13:54:32] *** Advant has joined #haiku
[13:55:30] *** Andrius has quit IRC
[13:57:55] *** Andrius has joined #haiku
[14:03:38] *** diogen has quit IRC
[14:04:14] *** diogen has joined #haiku
[14:08:04] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku
[14:08:24] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku
[14:12:03] <ver> mmadia: well, it was worth a shot.  boss doesn't like the code :/
[14:30:57] *** Barrett has joined #haiku
[14:32:25] *** Barrett has quit IRC
[14:36:45] *** rfgergrthnre has joined #haiku
[14:39:12] *** DDevine has quit IRC
[14:53:09] *** ukev has joined #haiku
[14:53:38] *** fhein has quit IRC
[14:55:19] *** beos_zealot has quit IRC
[15:00:37] *** waveshaper has quit IRC
[15:03:52] *** hdanak has quit IRC
[15:07:37] *** adamk_ has joined #haiku
[15:21:21] *** hmt has joined #haiku
[15:21:50] <hmt> Is there a hosts file on Haiku?
[15:23:48] *** rfgergrthnre has quit IRC
[15:27:52] *** ukev has quit IRC
[15:28:10] *** timezer0 has quit IRC
[15:29:01] *** gwenael has quit IRC
[15:29:02] *** DmitryM has quit IRC
[15:29:02] *** martinhpedersen has quit IRC
[15:29:02] *** cherrypie has quit IRC
[15:33:31] *** timezer0 has joined #haiku
[15:33:31] *** gwenael has joined #haiku
[15:33:31] *** DmitryM has joined #haiku
[15:33:31] *** martinhpedersen has joined #haiku
[15:33:32] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku
[15:35:11] *** gwenael has quit IRC
[15:35:25] *** gwenael has joined #haiku
[15:36:31] <CIA-50> axeld * r35735 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/cache/block_cache.cpp:
[15:36:31] <CIA-50> * block_notifier_and_writer() will now flush 1000 blocks when reaching the soft
[15:36:31] <CIA-50> memory limit.
[15:36:31] <CIA-50> * Improved debug output.
[15:39:03] *** aschueler has quit IRC
[15:45:45] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC
[15:51:49] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35736 /haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/platform/bios_ia32/mmu.cpp:
[15:51:49] <CIA-50> Ignore physical memory below 1 MB. This is a work-around for buggy BIOSes
[15:51:49] <CIA-50> providing incorrect memory types. It doesn't cost us anything, since the
[15:51:49] <CIA-50> kernel reserves all but the unusable range later anyway. Should fix #1925.
[15:53:12] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC
[15:53:51] *** PacoLinux has joined #haiku
[15:54:20] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku
[15:54:29] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku
[15:56:03] *** Colin_Finck is now known as Colin_Finck|afk
[16:01:03] <hmt> I can't access an internal web site undet Haiku. Under Linux I had to add the servers host name to /etc/hosts - how can I do this under Haiku?
[16:01:26] <hmt> Does /etc/hosts work under Haiku too?
[16:01:57] <hmt> it doesn't exist by default
[16:04:43] <leszek> internal website on poorman webserver ?
[16:05:29] <hmt> nothing to do with poorman
[16:06:03] <hmt> We've got a moodle server that is accessed via its hostname
[16:06:31] <leszek> can't you just access it through IP adress ?
[16:07:09] <hmt> No.For some reason, you can access it fine from Windows browsers, but on other OSs you need to tell them the IP of the hostname via hosts file
[16:07:22] <hmt> its a linux sever though
[16:07:24] <aldeck> hmt: /etc/hosts works iirc, just create it
[16:07:44] <leszek> nice ;)
[16:07:52] <leszek> so try it with /etc/hosts :)
[16:07:59] <hmt> aldeck: OK, I thought it might. I should've tried first eh?
[16:09:01] *** AlexFera has quit IRC
[16:09:22] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku
[16:09:54] *** Colin_Finck|afk is now known as Colin_Finck
[16:10:18] <aldeck> hmt: np :) it possible that it gets moved in the future in a more haiku'sh place like /common/settings/network
[16:11:59] <hmt> aldeck: Doesn't work. I created /etc/hosts with one line:
[16:12:14] <hmt> IP.ADDRESS  hostname
[16:12:16] <aldeck> hmm, might have been moved already
[16:12:22] <aldeck> let me check
[16:12:50] <aldeck> try common/settings/network/hosts
[16:12:52] <CIA-50> axeld * r35737 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/slab/Slab.cpp: * The slab_cache command now also dumps the actual slab lists.
[16:12:59] <aldeck> /boot/common
[16:16:16] <hmt> aldeck: Thats fixed it thanks! Now I know where resolv.conf is too :D
[16:16:59] <aldeck> hmt: np :) though we might want to put an empty hosts files so that it's searchable
[16:23:03] <hmt> aldeck: good idea
[16:24:39] *** Yaroze has quit IRC
[16:24:42] <hmt> I want to make it so I can right-click on a .pdf and send it via FTP to my printer- whats the best way to achieve this under Haiku?
[16:25:17] <hmt> Or maybe drag a pdf onto a icon?
[16:26:17] <hmt> or maybe theres an even better method to automate this?
[16:30:25] <hmt> I know I can do it with a bash script (well I presume I can) but I'm wondering how to tie it into the gui
[16:33:15] *** e-jones has quit IRC
[16:35:13] <leszek> hmt, perhaps a simple add-on for the menu
[16:36:02] *** leszek has quit IRC
[16:36:35] <hmt> leszek: So how do you create them?
[16:37:02] <hmt> just missed him :(
[16:38:56] <idefix_xifedi> hmt, maybe with a Tracker Add-on: http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/TheTracker_AddOnProtocol.html ?
[16:51:17] <ver> i guess nobody will miss one stray coder from the project..
[16:51:20] *** ver has left #haiku
[17:00:46] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku
[17:01:11] *** Colin_Finck has quit IRC
[17:03:20] *** BGA has joined #haiku
[17:03:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o BGA
[17:12:21] *** fhein has joined #haiku
[17:19:56] *** humdinger has joined #haiku
[17:20:11] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku
[17:22:38] *** PasNox has joined #haiku
[17:23:10] *** mephju has joined #haiku
[17:23:52] *** hmt has quit IRC
[17:32:05] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC
[17:36:29] *** alwaysGam3 has quit IRC
[17:37:04] *** Kokito has joined #haiku
[17:39:11] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku
[17:43:05] *** Yaroze has quit IRC
[17:43:09] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku
[17:43:33] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku
[17:45:20] *** Ghostride has joined #haiku
[17:45:29] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku
[17:50:43] *** Yaroze has quit IRC
[17:52:39] *** tqh has joined #haiku
[17:53:18] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku
[17:58:07] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC
[18:01:37] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku
[18:03:59] *** jjido has joined #haiku
[18:06:07] *** PasNox has quit IRC
[18:07:06] *** PasNox has joined #haiku
[18:13:17] *** J-Ho has left #haiku
[18:13:18] *** vision2 has joined #haiku
[18:14:07] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku
[18:14:29] *** vision2 has quit IRC
[18:20:10] <CIA-50> mmadia * r35738 /haiku/trunk/ (8 files in 7 dirs):
[18:20:10] <CIA-50> Extended AddWifiFirmwareToHaikuImage to support a boolean, which determines
[18:20:10] <CIA-50> whether to extract the firmware archive onto Haiku Image or to simply copy
[18:20:10] <CIA-50> it intact. This allows the ipw2100 and iprowifi2200 firmware archives to be
[18:20:10] <CIA-50> copied onto the default images. Fixes #5523
[18:26:50] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku
[18:27:00] *** knottnhupfer has joined #haiku
[18:34:26] *** VinDuv has quit IRC
[18:36:44] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku
[18:37:39] <mmadia> GeneralMaximus : aside from the broadcom43xx, would you have an active internet connection once inside Haiku?
[18:38:22] <GeneralMaximus> mmadia: what do you mean? wired network works just fine, if that's what you want to know.
[18:38:56] <mmadia> yes.  good.  you'll be fine running the install-wifi-firmwares.sh  script.
[18:40:07] <GeneralMaximus> :)
[18:40:36] <CIA-50> stippi * r35739 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/ (Menu.cpp MenuBar.cpp MenuItem.cpp): (log message trimmed)
[18:40:36] <CIA-50> Patch in part by "yourpalal":
[18:40:36] <CIA-50> * Set the MENU_STATE_CLOSED state upon BMenu initialization.
[18:40:36] <CIA-50> * When drawing the label, use the parent bounds, including
[18:40:36] <CIA-50> item margins to truncate the label, when the parent menu is
[18:40:37] <CIA-50> closed.
[18:40:37] <CIA-50> Thanks a lot for the patch!
[18:42:32] *** humdinger has quit IRC
[18:44:33] <CIA-50> stippi * r35740 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/filetypes/FileTypesWindow.cpp:
[18:44:33] <CIA-50> Patch by "yourpalal": The previous hack to embed the menufield is no
[18:44:33] <CIA-50> longer necessary. Resolves #3637 - thanks!
[18:45:18] *** chris689 has joined #haiku
[18:47:18] *** mephju has quit IRC
[18:49:31] *** mephju has joined #haiku
[18:49:40] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku
[18:53:08] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC
[19:00:00] *** stippi has joined #haiku
[19:00:01] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi
[19:04:45] *** Vooshy has joined #haiku
[19:11:35] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku
[19:12:00] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku
[19:15:12] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku
[19:19:47] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku
[19:21:15] *** knottnhupfer has quit IRC
[19:24:23] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC
[19:33:55] *** chris689 has quit IRC
[19:36:47] *** jmayfield has quit IRC
[19:41:08] *** oZ1 has joined #haiku
[19:45:14] *** diogen has quit IRC
[19:50:41] *** DividebyNulality has joined #haiku
[19:51:21] <DividebyNulality> hello
[19:52:22] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku
[19:52:34] <DividebyNulality> I was about to install haiku on flash disk. Is there any collection of software that compiles well under this alpha release
[19:52:53] <DividebyNulality> I was hoping to compile basilliskII to run macos 7.5.3
[19:53:19] <DividebyNulality> ...or somewhere i should look?
[19:54:23] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku
[19:56:32] <DividebyNulality> perhaps a poem is desired, A nice comunication, just a little haiku
[20:00:37] *** DividebyNulality has left #haiku
[20:02:13] *** jmayfield has joined #haiku
[20:02:36] *** DividebyNulality has joined #haiku
[20:02:50] <AlienSoldier> DividebyNulality http://www.haikuware.com/directory/view-details/emulators/computer-systems/basilisk-ii
[20:06:53] *** NullPointer has joined #haiku
[20:09:59] *** DividebyNulality has quit IRC
[20:11:46] <CIA-50> jackburton * r35741 /haiku/trunk/src/system/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Move the code which checks for disabled apic earlier (in the boot loader).
[20:12:52] *** NullPointer has left #haiku
[20:14:56] *** humdinger has joined #haiku
[20:17:54] <CIA-50> axeld * r35742 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/disk_systems/bfs/BFSAddOn.cpp: * Cleanup.
[20:19:24] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC
[20:23:01] *** adamk_ has quit IRC
[20:25:41] *** Kroki has quit IRC
[20:26:13] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC
[20:33:10] *** zeus_ has joined #haiku
[20:36:10] <CIA-50> axeld * r35743 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/ (4 files):
[20:36:10] <CIA-50> * Removed the cookie field of the check_control structure; that really was
[20:36:10] <CIA-50> a stupid idea. Instead, the already existing fCheckCookie member is used.
[20:36:10] <CIA-50> * bfs_ioctl() now accesses all userland buffers safely, this should help with
[20:36:10] <CIA-50> #3264, and move the crash where it belongs.
[20:36:11] <CIA-50> * Changes not yet tested; they only affect checkfs.
[20:40:30] *** kirilla has joined #haiku
[20:40:52] *** Sryche has joined #haiku
[20:49:45] *** jan__64 has joined #haiku
[20:50:26] <Sryche> stippi, good work on webpositive \o/
[20:50:41] <Sryche> stippi, it's fast as hell :]
[20:52:02] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku
[20:53:11] *** timezer0 has quit IRC
[20:53:16] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku
[20:55:00] *** timezer0 has joined #haiku
[20:57:22] *** BGA has left #haiku
[21:18:00] *** oco has joined #haiku
[21:21:44] *** luroh has joined #haiku
[21:23:09] *** mephju has quit IRC
[21:27:36] *** mephju has joined #haiku
[21:29:30] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC
[21:30:21] *** oZ1 has quit IRC
[21:32:59] *** AlexFera has quit IRC
[21:33:36] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku
[21:34:44] <largo> is there a newer "release" of Web+ than what's on http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/stippi/2010-03-02_webpositive_emerges ?
[21:34:52] *** jan__64 has quit IRC
[21:35:11] *** dakdagi has joined #haiku
[21:35:26] <mmadia> http://mmlr.dyndns.org/ is now hosting nightlies
[21:35:54] <largo> mmadia: danke. :D
[21:36:59] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku
[21:39:38] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku
[21:40:44] *** Kokito has quit IRC
[21:42:08] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku
[21:42:46] *** joeyadams has joined #haiku
[21:43:46] *** oZ1 has joined #haiku
[21:43:53] *** oZ1 is now known as oZ]
[21:44:59] <kirilla> I don't suppose that's poorman serving trac over at Michael's?
[21:47:40] *** zeus__ has joined #haiku
[21:47:40] *** zeus_ has quit IRC
[21:49:03] <luroh> kirilla: Server: tracd/0.11.6 Python/2.6.4
[21:49:20] <luroh> a built-in web server, it looks like
[21:49:34] <kirilla> oh
[21:50:58] *** humdinger has quit IRC
[21:51:01] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku
[21:51:47] <kirilla> is ACPI just a kernel settings file option, or does one have to compile it in first?
[21:52:05] <luroh> just the setting
[21:52:13] <kirilla> thanks
[21:52:19] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC
[21:52:22] <kirilla> gonna see how it works
[21:53:30] <kirilla> bbl
[21:53:31] *** kirilla has quit IRC
[21:54:24] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku
[21:55:52] <CIA-50> mmadia * r35744 /haiku/trunk/data/bin/installoptionalpackage:
[21:55:52] <CIA-50> Exit immediately if wget fails to download any one of its files. This will
[21:55:52] <CIA-50> allow future runs to be successful. Fixes #5528
[21:56:13] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC
[21:56:33] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku
[21:58:37] *** leszek has joined #haiku
[21:58:49] <leszek> re
[21:59:37] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35745 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/add-ons/kernel/kernelland_emu/vm.cpp:
[21:59:37] <CIA-50> The usual cleanup after Axel. ;-) Define vm_page_num_pages() which is now
[21:59:37] <CIA-50> used by the block cache.
[22:01:06] *** jjido has quit IRC
[22:03:49] *** Sryche has quit IRC
[22:04:54] *** mephju has left #haiku
[22:05:07] *** Animal-X has quit IRC
[22:05:35] *** Ingenu_ has joined #haiku
[22:06:41] *** kirilla has joined #haiku
[22:08:33] <kirilla> anybody know how to give ACPI a proper workout? besides shutting down, and cat:ing /dev/acpi/namespace
[22:08:34] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[22:08:41] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[22:09:26] <leszek> kirilla, I think cpu fans are controlled by acpi , at least on notebooks
[22:09:36] <leszek> battery life also
[22:09:53] *** Ingenu has quit IRC
[22:09:54] *** Ingenu_ is now known as Ingenu
[22:09:59] <kirilla> oh yeah. maybe the CPUfrequency thing and the bat stat thing shows something now
[22:10:12] *** The123king has quit IRC
[22:10:45] <kirilla> apparently not
[22:11:30] <kirilla> stationary box though, so not really expected
[22:11:59] *** Vooshy has quit IRC
[22:13:02] <MrSunshine> anyone here ported any freebsd drivers .. network =)
[22:13:03] <MrSunshine> ?
[22:14:13] *** joeyadams has quit IRC
[22:14:25] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[22:16:14] <kirilla> idea: the B.O.M could announce a fresh rev for download in this channel
[22:16:52] <DraX> MrSunshine: no, but what are you trying to port?
[22:17:09] <MrSunshine> DraX, trying to update the marvell_yukon driver so that it works with my new laptop
[22:17:22] <MrSunshine> but aparently __haiku_disable_interrupts is needed in the newer revs of the driver
[22:17:54] *** PathagenX has joined #haiku
[22:18:18] *** zeus has joined #haiku
[22:18:49] <zeus> Hey guys! I'm running haiku in a VM and it runs REALLY smoothly, boots in precicely 7 seconds!
[22:19:02] <leszek> zeus, nice ;)
[22:19:13] <zeus> but when i move the mouse the CPU spikes, so it's not hardware accellerated
[22:19:23] <zeus> and the internet adapter doesn't exist
[22:19:36] <zeus> any tips on that?
[22:20:18] <leszek> zeus, on virtualbox use the intel driver for network
[22:21:01] <zeus> in haiku or virtualbox?
[22:21:21] <kirilla> in virtualbox
[22:21:47] <leszek> yes
[22:22:07] <kirilla> is it called ipro1000 or something like that maybe?
[22:22:50] *** bosii has joined #haiku
[22:23:13] <bosii> hey largo.
[22:24:15] <kirilla> in the virtualbox OSE (on Ubuntu) I can only spot two adapters.. both PCnet something
[22:24:47] <kirilla> (I have no idea what those are.)
[22:25:13] <leszek> kirilla, version 3 ?
[22:25:39] <kirilla> leszek: 2.0.4 I think :P
[22:26:14] <leszek> you need to update to version 3. Grep the deb of the full version from the virtualbox guys
[22:26:27] <kirilla> yah
[22:28:32] <zeus> when i move the mouse really fast it goes bullet time
[22:29:18] <kirilla> doesn't spike on real hardware, in my experience
[22:31:17] <leszek> zeus, you need the new virtualbox version and make sure to set the graphics memory in virtual machine to 32 MB for example
[22:31:51] <leszek> delete virtualbox-ose before installing the new version
[22:31:53] <oZ]> In VirtualBox, Haiku would be using the vesa driver, right?
[22:32:35] *** vooshy has joined #haiku
[22:33:01] <zeus> leszek, thanks i will do that (i see it has 8 mb video memory now :O)
[22:33:16] <leszek> oZ], might be
[22:33:34] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku
[22:33:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[22:33:55] <oZ]> So the pointer couldn't be accelerated anyway, right?
[22:34:07] <kirilla> oZ]: probably. A tooltip while hovering over the monitor image in the Screen preferences should reveal some info on which driver is in use, IIRC
[22:34:09] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[22:35:08] *** mmu_man has quit IRC
[22:35:27] <largo> bosii: heyas bosii :)
[22:35:28] <kirilla> I think acceleration is mostly turned off, but it performs surprisingly well even in vesa
[22:35:35] <largo> (sorry, was up making coffee)
[22:36:08] <kirilla> specifically there is no hardware cursor being used by Haiku currently
[22:36:13] <HeTo> I think the VESA API provides mouse cursor acceleration
[22:36:26] <kirilla> but is it used?
[22:36:29] <zeus> "mouse cursor acceleration" lol
[22:36:45] <kirilla> sprite :)
[22:36:52] <largo> bosii: did you need some more information?
[22:36:58] <DraX> bosii: \o/
[22:36:59] <largo> or need me to test something?
[22:37:52] <bosii> largo: mmadia informed me about your bad experiences with the atheroswifi driver in smp mode.
[22:38:04] <largo> bosii: yes.
[22:38:13] <HeTo> kirilla: probably not if even the native drivers aren't accelerated, but it would be theoretically possible
[22:38:34] <bosii> largo: would it possible to open a trac ticket appending the listdev output, and the syslog?
[22:39:07] <bosii> largo: i'm currently short on time and by using trac you ensure that the problem you encounter will be addressed :)
[22:39:13] <bosii> Drax: hey
[22:39:15] <largo> bosii: sure. is there any difference between the two with SMP disabled? or is the syslog with SMP disabled fine?
[22:39:31] *** Nozy has joined #haiku
[22:39:34] <zeus> Networking works, i can't get freenode to play along with vision though
[22:39:46] <zeus> and Java doesn't seems to exist either
[22:39:50] <largo> zeus: I got on freenode fine with Vision.
[22:39:58] <kirilla> zeus: correct, no java yet
[22:40:43] <kirilla> zeus: in vision, you have to create a network (e.g. freenode), then add servers to it (addresses to connect to)
[22:40:52] <zeus> i get USER Not enough parameters.
[22:41:02] <zeus> And ** No ident response
[22:41:05] <DraX> bosii: how's the thesis going?
[22:41:09] <bosii> largo: the syslog which gets written during smp activated would be prefered
[22:41:12] <zeus> it's properbly just me though
[22:41:18] <CIA-50> zooey * r35746 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/OptionalPackages:
[22:41:18] <CIA-50> Fixing #5518:
[22:41:18] <CIA-50> * applied Matt's patch (somewhat changed) that corrects the links for gcc4's
[22:41:18] <CIA-50> libstdc++.so and libsupc++.so in case of a gcc2 hybrid (they must point
[22:41:18] <CIA-50> to /system/lib/gcc4/... instead of /system/lib/...)
[22:41:22] <zeus> let me try the video buffer
[22:41:22] <largo> bosii: ok. thanks.
[22:41:23] <bosii> DraX: time consuming...
[22:41:30] <bosii> largo: one more thing
[22:41:42] <largo> ja?
[22:41:57] <bosii> largo: experince shows that the syslog_buffer_size is usually to small (klein ;) for wifi debugging
[22:42:17] <bosii> largo: would be nice if you can increase it before getting the syslog.
[22:42:35] <largo> what is the easiest way to do that?
[22:42:43] <bosii> largo: a value of 1024000 approved to get the best results..
[22:42:49] <bosii> largo: are you in Haiku currently?
[22:43:00] <largo> not at the moment. I can reboot into it and come back in here.
[22:43:21] <bosii> largo: would be nice of you.
[22:43:24] <largo> k. brb.
[22:43:39] *** largo has quit IRC
[22:44:44] <kirilla> zeus: I think you may want to set up a default name, and then checkbox a option called "use default identity" (something like that) for the freenode network you've got set up
[22:45:08] <leszek> zeus, I have virtualbox 3.1.4 with the newest haiku nightly , it uses vesa driver and I only assigned 5 mb to the virtual graphics card, mouse is running very smoothly no problem no lags. How much memory have you assigned to your virtualmachine ?
[22:45:13] <kirilla> pardon the confusing instructions :)
[22:45:40] *** largo has joined #haiku
[22:46:26] <bosii> largo: wb. you'd need to modifiy the kernel settings file
[22:46:39] *** largo has quit IRC
[22:47:23] *** oZ] has quit IRC
[22:48:44] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC
[22:48:50] <zeus> leszek, i'm using the alfa haiku and virtual box
[22:48:56] *** largo has joined #haiku
[22:49:05] <largo> wow... I had a little trouble getting Vision to connect too. :/
[22:49:09] <largo> anyhoo...
[22:49:11] <largo> OS Uptime [Haiku]: 5 mins 0.183 secs
[22:49:18] <largo> bosii: I'm in Haiku now.
[22:49:32] <bosii> largo: k
[22:49:34] <zeus> Whoa
[22:49:41] <bosii> largo: you need to edit the kernel settings file
[22:50:09] <zeus> PANIC: acquire_spinlock(): Failed to acquire spinlock 0x801333c4 for a long time!
[22:50:22] <bosii> largo: should be in home/config/settings/kernel/drivers
[22:50:35] <zeus> Thread 132 "extended PS/2 Mouse 1 watcher" running on CPU 0
[22:50:39] <zeus> in the kernel debugger
[22:51:00] <zeus> leszek, virtual box 3.2.4
[22:51:06] <zeus> * 3.1.4
[22:51:26] *** peerkoel has quit IRC
[22:51:43] <largo> bosii: #syslog_buffer_size 131768
[22:51:46] <largo> edit that line?
[22:51:56] <zeus> leszek, and i have 128MB's of video memory assigned and 1024MB of base memory
[22:52:02] <largo> uncomment and change to... what was it again?
[22:52:50] *** zeusHaiku has joined #haiku
[22:52:57] <CIA-50> colin * r35747 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/wlan/atheroswifi/ (43 files in 7 dirs):
[22:52:57] <CIA-50> Updating the atheroswifi driver to the FreeBSD HEAD svn rev 204100. This enables
[22:52:57] <CIA-50> support for some of the newer 9k chipsets. For example my Eee PC 1005 HA can
[22:52:57] <CIA-50> now be used with WiFi.
[22:53:00] <zeusHaiku> Hello from haiku guys !
[22:53:01] <bosii> largo: to 1024000
[22:53:04] <leszek> :)
[22:53:07] <zeusHaiku> i think i'm in love
[22:53:20] <kirilla> zeus: you can find some info on the spinlock by typing "spinlock 0x801333c4" in KDL
[22:53:23] *** fhein has quit IRC
[22:53:30] <zeusHaiku> It's clean, simple and i expected much more trouble getting things working
[22:53:52] <leszek> :)
[22:53:53] <kirilla> zeus: maybe even who/what is/was holding the spinlock
[22:54:11] <largo> bosii: then reboot with SMP enabled, and grab a copy of the listdev and syslog before it locks up and write up a trac entry describing the issue and attach them. :)
[22:54:19] *** peerkoel has joined #haiku
[22:54:43] <zeusHaiku> kirilla, i already rebooted (so fast :!) sorry if it was relevant for debugging
[22:54:46] <bosii> largo: well the listdev can be grabed in non-smp mode, there is no difference
[22:54:56] <largo> k
[22:55:11] <kirilla> zeus: I hope you won't see too many of those KDLs :) but this is alpha still
[22:55:32] <bosii> largo: can you cleanly reboot haiku once it locked up?
[22:55:53] <bosii> largo: i mean does ctrl+alt+entf still work?
[22:56:00] <kirilla> zeus: we hope that people report any bugs they encounter, and for that its good to learn a few things about KDL.. like "bt" for backtrace
[22:56:02] <largo> bosii: what do you mean by cleanly reboot? I have to power the computer off. it's a complete hard lock. whole system freezes solid.
[22:56:39] <largo> I can't get into the KDL or anything. KB is unresponsive as far as I know.
[22:57:11] *** tqh has quit IRC
[22:57:20] <bosii> largo: ah ok the you can cleanly reboot :) well by definition of a kernel developer, at least ;)
[22:58:02] <bosii> largo: when you in kdl you would need to issue some commands...
[22:58:31] <largo> but I can't get into KDL or anything. I just have to press the power button on the computer. :P
[22:58:49] <largo> what's the ctrl+alt+entf ?
[22:58:57] <bosii> largo: ups, you said don't...
[22:59:06] *** ziomatto has quit IRC
[22:59:19] <bosii> entf would be del on an english keyboard
[22:59:34] <largo> ah. yeah, that does nothing either.
[22:59:37] <largo> it's locked solid.
[22:59:43] *** dakdagi has quit IRC
[23:00:59] <bosii> largo: mom.
[23:02:16] <kirilla>  = plz wait ;)
[23:02:30] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku
[23:02:30] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[23:02:33] <largo> danke. I guessed it was short for "moment" ie; one moment. :)
[23:02:51] <kirilla> Alt+SysReq+D should enter KDL
[23:03:02] <largo> I can get into the KDL fine otherwise. like right now.
[23:03:08] <kirilla> (if that was desired)
[23:03:20] <largo> but when it freezes like that, nothing reponds. I can't get into the KDL or anything. totally frozen.
[23:03:41] <largo> I used it to get a list of the "ints" etc.
[23:03:50] <leszek> largo, perhaps an acpi problem, do you activated it ?
[23:03:59] <largo> and also to do a backtrace when I crashed Haiku on some file operations etc. :)
[23:04:18] <largo> leszek: how do I check if ACPI is active or not?
[23:04:25] <largo> I didn't do anything to manually activate ACPI...
[23:04:52] <zeusHaiku> my mouse is glitching all over the place!
[23:04:53] <leszek> aha ok, then its deactivated
[23:05:00] <kirilla> I'm guessing the /dev/acpi/.. is only there when activated
[23:05:14] <leszek> hmm... zeusHaiku its working fine here. Thats strange
[23:05:19] <largo> no /dev/acpi/.. here
[23:05:35] <bosii> largo: btw, how far do you come when booting in SMP?
[23:05:37] <zeusHaiku> leszek maybe it's becouse of the nightly build
[23:05:52] <kirilla> and its activated by editing the kernel settings file in  ~/config/settings/kernel/somehting/settings
[23:05:54] <CIA-50> bonefish * r35748 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/vm/ (4 files):
[23:05:54] <CIA-50> Override Fault() method for VM{Device,Null}Cache to prevent vm_soft_fault()
[23:05:54] <CIA-50> from inserting a clean page, if a fault happens. VMNullCaches are used by the
[23:05:54] <CIA-50> slab's memory manager -- all page faults in slab areas are serious bugs and
[23:05:54] <CIA-50> we want to panic() immediately.
[23:06:07] *** zeus__ has quit IRC
[23:06:23] <largo> bosii: occasionally it will lock up as soon as I get to the desktop... but otherwise it might take 5, 10 minutes or whatever... it seems an easy way to crash it was to try installing BeZillaBrowser.
[23:06:53] <leszek> zeusHaiku, maybe its because of your resolution, which one do you have ?
[23:07:00] <largo> or surfing a web page etc.
[23:07:31] <zeusHaiku> leszek, 1600x1200 now
[23:07:36] <bosii> largo: well if you come that far, than we can give the syslog a try, even if there aren't the latest bits in it.
[23:08:03] <leszek> zeusHaiku, that might be the problem. I have it running @ 800x600 here :P
[23:08:07] <bosii> largo: so it would be good to delete the current syslog file before attempting the smp boot
[23:08:12] <largo> bosii: yeah, I was watching the syslog when it crashed before and there was nothing new in the syslog when it crashed.. just the same stuff.
[23:08:15] <kirilla> zeus: is that a nightly build you've got, or the old Alpha1?
[23:08:20] <largo> (tail -f /var/log/syslog in a terminal)
[23:08:38] <largo> bosii: ok, will do.
[23:08:50] <bosii> k
[23:08:55] <largo> brb. ;)
[23:09:08] <zeusHaiku> kirilla, Alpha1 where do i get the nightly?
[23:09:25] <kirilla> zeusHaiku: http://www.haiku-files.org
[23:09:33] *** largo has quit IRC
[23:09:49] <kirilla> zeusHaiku: there are CD images, vmware images and raw ones, which may work nicely on a USB stick
[23:10:40] <zeus> take the gcc2 or gcc4? or the hybrid?
[23:11:03] <zeus> you guys are very helpfull btw
[23:11:04] <zeus> thanks
[23:11:06] <kirilla> zeusHaiku: any hybrid, preferrably, but gcc2hybrid is our standard
[23:11:23] <kirilla> you're welcome! :)
[23:11:36] <leszek> :)
[23:12:21] <kirilla> zeusHaiku: we've got optional software available by running a script called "installoptionalpackage", which is a temporary fix sort of
[23:13:18] * mmadia pets bash scripting
[23:13:20] <kirilla> zeusHaiku: and some of those packages need gcc4, so a hybrid build of Haiku with both gcc2 and gcc4 is best to be able to run all of the available packages of ported software, like VLC, firefox (bezillabrowser) etc
[23:14:03] *** Kokito has joined #haiku
[23:14:18] *** VinDuv has quit IRC
[23:14:34] <leszek> zeus, btw. here a youtube channel with constantly updated haiku screencast, showing some basics: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=26CCC5ED170B3216
[23:14:41] <kirilla> very nice and useful script! kudos mmadia!
[23:14:44] <leszek> *screencasts
[23:15:16] <zeus> wish it was ready to use normally :P
[23:16:20] <kirilla> define normally! ;)
[23:17:13] *** enmodal has quit IRC
[23:21:47] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC
[23:24:56] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku
[23:26:16] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku
[23:27:06] *** Nozy has quit IRC
[23:28:20] <leszek> zeus, it only takes some steps and it can be quite a nice os for surfing the web on a netbook (wifi of course with wpa working)
[23:28:43] *** PasNox has quit IRC
[23:29:12] <zeus> Normally - usually
[23:29:16] *** largo has joined #haiku
[23:29:19] <zeus> most of the times
[23:30:03] <zeus> i won't be able to play any games, java, flash, photoshop or any of the applications i usually use
[23:30:28] <zeus> and most monolithic or just big applications run only on windows
[23:30:41] <zeus> sometimes on mac
[23:30:44] <zeus> even less on linux
[23:30:54] <zeus> another OS barely comes along
[23:31:08] <zeus> with other words: i will have to run specific software
[23:31:46] <largo> got the log etc... and just for fun I locked the system up again. took less than 2 minutes. :) (I started using the internet at 7m38s, and it was frozen at 9m24s)
[23:34:06] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC
[23:34:12] <kirilla> zeus: you're right of course. There is hope though :) perhaps not for Photoshop
[23:34:18] <CIA-50> augiedoggie * r621 /haikuporter/trunk/haikuporter:
[23:34:18] <CIA-50> Removed old source download code.
[23:34:18] <CIA-50> Renamed several class methods to be more descriptive and consistent.
[23:34:18] <CIA-50> Consolidated the duplicated command running code into a single method(runCommandSequence).
[23:34:18] <CIA-50> Minor coding style and whitespace changes.
[23:35:15] <bosii> largo: ok. please create a new bug report in dev.haiku-os.org. i'll get some sleep now ;)
[23:35:18] <zeus> kirilla, at least you'll have easy to understand and fast programs am-i-rite?
[23:35:25] <bosii> bye
[23:35:29] <zeus> bye
[23:35:46] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku
[23:35:47] <kirilla> zeus: that's the plan!
[23:37:03] *** AlexFera has quit IRC
[23:37:34] *** bosii has left #haiku
[23:37:36] <kirilla> we need more developers with more time
[23:37:51] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku
[23:37:56] <kirilla> zeus: did you try the new browser yet?
[23:38:08] <leszek> :)
[23:38:49] <kirilla> zeus: should be available from here: http://mmlr.dyndns.org/chrome/site/nightlies/index.html
[23:39:07] <leszek> Web+ is , even if it isn't final, the best browser right now for haiku
[23:39:13] <zeus> WAT THE FUAAAK
[23:39:14] <kirilla> it needs a recent haiku hybrid build to work though
[23:39:16] <zeus> WAT THE FUCKKKK
[23:39:21] <zeus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwqi9HnN17w&feature=channel
[23:39:23] <zeus> WHAT THE EFF
[23:39:32] <zeus> THAT BOOK ANIMATION IS INSANE!
[23:39:39] <zeus> that was before 2000 !
[23:39:45] <zeus> wth
[23:40:00] <leszek> :)
[23:40:12] <zeus> is haiku that good already?
[23:40:22] <leszek> scroll forward to the 2 tv card plus add effects directly section in the video
[23:40:46] <leszek> zeus, the app is working: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDR4xH5sjr0
[23:41:06] <kirilla> those demos were supercool in their time, but they are likely very simple by todays standards
[23:41:09] <zeus> thats epic!
[23:41:20] <zeus> the demo's are still cool
[23:41:29] <leszek> :)
[23:41:30] <zeus> just not never seen before
[23:41:52] <zeus> it just amazes me how apple catches high eyes with an app that worked smoothly back then
[23:41:56] <kirilla> it truly was epic, at the time :)
[23:42:03] <zeus> look it's an e-book, you can flip pages
[23:42:08] <kirilla> heh
[23:42:10] <zeus> *clap* *clap*
[23:42:17] <leszek> :)
[23:42:47] <zeus> some other guy *clap* "wooow i wish my ipod could do that" *claps more*
[23:43:19] *** brobostigon has quit IRC
[23:43:22] *** zeusHaiku has quit IRC
[23:43:28] <CIA-50> stippi * r35749 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/Menu.cpp:
[23:43:28] <CIA-50> Fixed hovering over a sub-menu to let it open automatically, which I broke
[23:43:28] <CIA-50> with my previous commit.
[23:44:31] *** mmlr_mc has joined #haiku
[23:44:39] *** Xbertl has quit IRC
[23:44:55] <kirilla> zeus: there is a java on beos videos as well, which shows some of the work done, which may eventually lead to java on Haiku
[23:45:17] <kirilla> but I think that work is on hold at the moment
[23:45:34] <zeus> It's not THAT important (to me at least) so thats ok
[23:45:55] <zeus> today a good browser is the most important
[23:45:59] <kirilla> I need Java so I can run Oracle.. ;PPP
[23:46:17] <kirilla> I have to endure it daily at work
[23:46:23] <zeus> the ipad prooves that in a ahead-of-it's-time way.
[23:46:50] <zeus> and google is working on it in a ALL-YOU-PC'S-ARE-BELONG-TO-US WAY
[23:47:00] <kirilla> interesting world we find ourselves in
[23:48:45] <largo> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/5532  good enough? :)
[23:51:07] <kirilla> you might want to set a component.. drivers > network probably
[23:51:30] <kirilla> (or system > kernel if it was suspected to be a general problem in the kernel)
[23:52:35] *** luroh has quit IRC
[23:52:55] <largo> I'm not qualified to make that differentiation. ;)
[23:53:23] <largo> I know on the FreeBSD side it sounds like a mix of the two.
[23:53:29] <largo> from what I read of the bug reports there.
[23:53:53] <largo> for Haiku I don't really know, as it's a different kernel etc... so the problem could be solely related to the driver for all I know.
[23:53:57] <bjl> 'lo
[23:54:11] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC
[23:54:15] <largo> bjl: howdy
[23:54:26] <bjl> does anyone here watch the contact at haiku-os dot org email address?
[23:54:37] <zeus> How does haiku deal with multiple screens?
[23:55:31] <kirilla> bjl: I think the responsibility was passed on recently from one person to another, but I don't remember who the new guy is
[23:55:43] * zeus does some personal maintanence and will be back in an hour or so
[23:56:16] <bjl> kirilla: I've emailed / contacted a few people as to whether or not anyone is interested in contributions to the nfs implementation a couple of times
[23:56:36] <kirilla> bjl: have you tried the haiku-development mailinglist?
[23:56:46] <bjl> I could give it a whirl
[23:56:49] <bjl> but no
[23:57:12] <kirilla> that's the best place, since we're all there in one place
[23:57:22] <bjl> hah of course =]
[23:57:48] <bjl> alright, I'll e-mail that and see what comes of it
[23:57:55] <bjl> thank you kirilla
[23:57:57] <kirilla> there's been someone asking about mounting nfs lately, on the ML, I think
[23:58:00] <kirilla> np bjl!
[23:58:18] *** stippi has quit IRC
[23:58:47] <bjl> well, I work with it quite a lot and thought that I might be able to help
[23:59:12] <kirilla> bjl: here's a recent thread: http://www.freelists.org/post/haiku-development/Status-of-NFS
[23:59:40] *** Andrius has quit IRC

   March 3, 2010  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | >