November 26, 2009 
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November 26, 2009 [00:00:12] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[00:01:56] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[00:04:57] *** gtaw has quit IRC[00:05:06] *** javatexan has joined #haiku[00:08:08] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[00:08:58] *** Syn-- has quit IRC[00:10:04] *** SuPeRhOmEm has quit IRC[00:13:58] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[00:16:25] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[00:18:41] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC[00:26:52] *** dhalsimrocks has quit IRC[00:27:10] *** Andrius has quit IRC[00:27:40] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[00:28:51] <JonathanThompson> Haiku trademark/Microsoft violated!/Expect lawsuit soon![00:29:30] <mmu_man> nice one[00:29:45] <mmu_man> well it's not registered but still[00:29:56] <JonathanThompson> Darn it, I don't have a Windows Live ID (or can't remember it and the email address)...[00:30:26] <JonathanThompson> So, until I sign up (again) for an ID, I can't post that, and I don't have a Twitter ID :P[00:30:39] *** Logic has quit IRC[00:31:36] *** Barrett_ has quit IRC[00:31:48] *** fly-away has quit IRC[00:34:32] *** umccullough_w has joined #haiku[00:35:32] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[00:44:31] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[00:45:39] * umccullough_w rubs CIA-45's tummy[00:45:44] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[00:46:07] <mmadia> i've dropped a line in #cia , no one's responded yet.[00:46:26] <mmadia> there haven't been any changes to http://cia.vc/stats/project/OpenBeOS either :|[00:46:31] <umccullough_w> hmm[00:46:42] <umccullough_w> well, it works elsewhere ;)[00:47:17] <umccullough_w> hang on a sec[00:48:02] *** CIA-45 has left #haiku[00:48:10] <umccullough_w> let's try this[00:49:24] <umccullough_w> wow, must be busted[00:49:36] <umccullough_w> status: Waiting for bots to connect...[00:50:13] *** Darknesss has quit IRC[00:50:41] <JonathanThompson> Time to rebot it?[00:50:53] <umccullough_w> i did, it failed to bot[00:51:19] <JonathanThompson> Abot, Ignore, Rebot, Fail?[00:53:32] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:53:54] <HaikuBot1> Haiku will 64-bit?[00:54:03] <umccullough_w> someday[00:54:07] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[00:55:12] <mmadia> Nozy ?[00:55:15] <JonathanThompson> I predict Al2O3 will be 64-bit first :P[00:55:23] <Nozy> hey man[00:55:41] <mmadia> can you retry requesting a password from www.haiku-os.org?[00:55:46] <Al2O3> Not sure what the context of that comment was, but welcome it.[00:55:48] <Nozy> yep 2 sec[00:56:56] <Nozy> is not allowed to request a new password.[00:57:02] <mmadia> hrmm...[00:57:56] <TheNerd> weird indeed mmadia[00:58:26] <Nozy> email address is right[01:17:10] *** echelog has joined #haiku[01:18:30] *** Mazon has quit IRC[01:19:29] *** scanty has quit IRC[01:20:47] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[01:24:28] *** scanty has joined #haiku[01:25:48] *** alexsuraci has quit IRC[01:26:26] *** MadEchidna has joined #haiku[01:30:16] *** HaikuBot1 has quit IRC[01:34:50] *** J-Ho has left #haiku[01:35:57] *** joeyadams has joined #haiku[01:36:12] *** idefix_dommel has left #haiku[01:41:07] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[01:41:41] *** wildur 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#haiku[06:35:34] *** congocongo has joined #haiku[06:35:45] *** rennj has quit IRC[06:49:28] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[06:50:16] *** xvedejas has quit IRC[06:50:22] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[06:50:22] *** Al2O3_ is now known as Al2O3[06:51:35] *** rennj has joined #haiku[06:55:55] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[06:57:17] *** congocongo has quit IRC[06:57:41] *** mmadia has quit IRC[07:01:07] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[07:01:07] *** Al2O3_ is now known as Al2O3[07:12:33] <CIA-7> siarzhuk * r526 /haikuports/trunk/app-arch/cabextract/cabextract.OptionalPackageDescription: required description added.[07:16:00] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[07:18:47] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has joined #haiku[07:25:18] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[07:27:07] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[07:29:10] *** joshc_ has joined #haiku[07:32:22] *** redblue has joined #haiku[07:40:55] *** Geoz has quit IRC[07:43:35] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[07:53:10] *** miqlas has quit IRC[08:00:00] *** Mazon has joined #haiku[08:22:58] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[08:23:12] *** triplez has quit IRC[08:52:07] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[08:56:25] *** J-Ho has joined #haiku[08:58:49] *** kjalarr has joined #haiku[08:59:25] *** kjalarr has quit IRC[08:59:35] *** kjalarr has joined #haiku[09:00:40] <CIA-7> scottmc * r527 /haikuports/trunk/ (14 files in 6 dirs): Initial .OPD files for speex, libtheora, bladeenc and readline. Moved readline patches to patches directory and added .bep file for readline-6.0[09:09:18] *** gamaral has quit IRC[09:10:25] *** gamaral has joined #haiku[09:13:53] *** markos_ has quit IRC[09:14:05] *** eisenawesome is now known as eisensleep[09:14:43] *** gamaral has quit IRC[09:14:58] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[09:15:47] *** gamaral has joined #haiku[09:18:18] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[09:18:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[09:19:10] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[09:20:29] *** J-Ho has left #haiku[09:20:45] *** gtaw has quit IRC[09:21:47] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[09:22:37] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[09:39:08] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[09:47:15] *** andrewbachmann has joined #haiku[09:47:43] <andrewbachmann> well, I finally got haiku running at normal speed on my machine, thanks to axel[09:47:58] <andrewbachmann> now all I need is network support and I'll be set[09:49:24] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[09:54:08] <DraX> what network card?[09:57:51] <JonathanThompson> /me poits andrewbachmann for Thanksgiving[09:58:01] <JonathanThompson> Darn it![09:58:08] * JonathanThompson repoits andrewbachmann for thanksgiving[09:58:26] <andrewbachmann> it's some sort of intel wireless card[09:58:54] *** xcasexwrka has joined #haiku[09:59:14] <DraX> i think colin had gotten some of the intel wireless cards to compile[09:59:17] <DraX> though i suspect he needs firmware framework for them[09:59:21] <DraX> that probably isn't there yet[10:02:09] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[10:16:01] <CIA-7> scottmc * r528 /haikuports/trunk/media-sound/ (14 files in 6 dirs): .bep and .OPD files for blandenc, lame and vorbis-tools[10:23:34] <andrewbachmann> on ubuntu I seem to be using driver iwl3945 for my wireless[10:31:32] <andrewbachmann> I guess it's Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG wireless[10:32:44] *** saivert has quit IRC[10:39:05] <CIA-7> scottmc * r529 /haikuports/trunk/ (20 files in 15 dirs): .OPD files for libxslt, libcddb, allegro, libao, xvidcore, taglib, and flac, and various license files.[10:39:45] *** andrewbachmann has quit IRC[10:40:22] *** saivert has joined #haiku[10:44:24] *** fhein has joined #haiku[10:45:58] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has quit IRC[10:48:25] <CIA-7> scottmc * r530 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/allegro/allegro.OptionalPackageDescription: Fixed url[10:49:59] <CIA-7> axeld * r34268 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/mail/MailApp.cpp: * Made the cascading work a bit nicer and more consistent.[10:53:18] <CIA-7> scottmc * r531 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed more wrong license names.[10:55:18] *** joeyadams has quit IRC[10:58:30] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[10:59:32] *** andrewbachmann has joined #haiku[11:00:31] *** StreaK|ON has quit IRC[11:00:36] <andrewbachmann> it looks like colin will be working on the 3945abg wireless driver soon http://www.haikuware.com/blog[11:03:40] *** triplez has joined #haiku[11:03:41] *** andrewbachmann has quit IRC[11:04:28] <CIA-7> scottmc * r532 /haikuports/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed a few more license names, and filled in the copyright years on cabextract[11:05:53] <CIA-7> axeld * r34269 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/mail/MailApp.cpp:[11:05:53] <CIA-7> * Enlarged the cascading offset a bit, so that you can still read the title.[11:05:53] <CIA-7> * Cascading should really be solved in a shared source, so that all apps behave[11:05:53] <CIA-7> in the same way (I don't consider Mail's cascading to be how it should be[11:05:53] <CIA-7> either, btw).[11:09:18] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[11:09:42] *** binaryimpulse has quit IRC[11:14:03] <CIA-7> bonefish * r34270 /haiku/trunk/src/tools/ (bfs_shell/Jamfile fs_shell/Jamfile):[11:14:03] <CIA-7> Don't include HaikuBuildCompatibility.h in the [b]fs_shell build. It's not[11:14:03] <CIA-7> needed -- the code has its own complete platform abstraction layer -- and[11:14:03] <CIA-7> only causes problems.[11:18:03] <CIA-7> bonefish * r34271 /haiku/trunk/headers/build/ (5 files in 4 dirs):[11:18:03] <CIA-7> Renamed headers/build/config to headers/build/config_build, so it doesn't[11:18:03] <CIA-7> shadow the host platform's <config/...> headers anymore.[11:18:14] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has joined #haiku[11:20:25] <CIA-7> bonefish * r34272 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/fs_shell/fssh_api_wrapper.h:[11:20:25] <CIA-7> Undefine B_HAIKU_{32,64}_BIT macros before defining them. Fixes warning when[11:20:25] <CIA-7> building on Haiku, since those will be defined already -- by way of the host[11:20:25] <CIA-7> platform's <BeBuild.h>, which currently is included by the POSIX headers..[11:24:32] *** phalax has quit IRC[11:25:09] *** phalax has joined #haiku[11:27:02] *** slaine_ has joined #haiku[11:35:12] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[11:37:02] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[11:37:08] <Nozy> hi all[11:37:09] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[11:53:20] *** ari2-free has joined #haiku[11:53:39] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[12:02:16] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[12:04:05] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[12:04:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[12:07:18] <CIA-7> scottmc * r533 /haikuports/trunk/ (25 files in 21 dirs): More .OPD files and licenses[12:08:02] *** fran has quit IRC[12:11:02] <CIA-7> axeld * r34273 /haiku/trunk/Jamrules: * bonefish: Cleanup.[12:11:43] *** aldeck has quit IRC[12:12:21] *** markos_ has quit IRC[12:14:33] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[12:17:12] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[12:17:13] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[12:17:48] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[12:26:46] *** aldeck has quit IRC[12:28:32] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[12:28:38] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[12:29:10] <CIA-7> axeld * r34274 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/deskbar/ExpandoMenuBar.cpp:[12:29:10] <CIA-7> * Moved the double click check after the expander bounds check, fixing[12:29:10] <CIA-7> bug #5037.[12:29:46] *** kmargar has joined #haiku[12:33:57] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[12:34:37] <CIA-7> bonefish * r34275 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/ReleaseBuildProfiles:[12:34:37] <CIA-7> Added potential HAIKU_OFFICIAL_RELEASE macro definition to be defined in the[12:34:37] <CIA-7> release branch. This completes the build system part of #5036.[12:39:36] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[12:40:35] *** redblue has quit IRC[12:41:36] *** fhein has quit IRC[12:43:04] *** SiCuTDeUx__ has joined #haiku[12:57:50] *** kitallis_ has joined #haiku[12:58:29] *** markos_ has quit IRC[12:59:14] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[13:10:56] *** kitallis has quit IRC[13:15:13] *** triplez has quit IRC[13:15:18] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has quit IRC[13:15:57] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has joined #haiku[13:16:17] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[13:20:24] *** triplez has joined #haiku[13:26:25] <Nozy> http://svn.haiku-os.org/haiku/haiku/trunk/docs/userguide/en/installation/install-source-mac.html works with show lepperd[13:35:59] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[13:36:25] *** Geoz has joined #haiku[13:38:15] <CIA-7> scottmc * r534 /haikuporter/trunk/installhaikuporter.sh: Fixed missing newline[13:41:48] *** kitallis_ is now known as kitallis[13:46:34] <CIA-7> axeld * r34276 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp: (log message trimmed)[13:46:34] <CIA-7> * dir_vnode_to_path() now uses B_* error codes instead of POSIX ones, and also[13:46:34] <CIA-7> returns the correct error code if the buffer was too small (should be ERANGE[13:46:34] <CIA-7> instead of ENOBUF).[13:46:34] <CIA-7> * Also, it is now independent of B_PATH_NAME_LENGTH, and therefore should[13:46:37] <CIA-7> fulfill POSIX getcwd() requirements. This should also close ticket #3352.[13:46:38] <CIA-7> * Is there any reason to allocate another buffer instead of using memmove()[13:49:23] *** fly-away has joined #haiku[13:53:11] <CIA-7> scottmc * r34277 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/ (OptionalPackageDependencies OptionalPackages): Updated python build to use newer patch which was updated by Chris Roberts. Added Bzip2 and made it a dependency for python. This now allows python to extraxt .bz2 files.[13:56:45] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:56:45] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[14:03:23] *** raichoo has quit IRC[14:11:38] *** HaikuBot has joined #haiku[14:11:47] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[14:21:17] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[14:21:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[14:28:16] *** HaikuBot has quit IRC[14:33:11] *** triplez has quit IRC[14:36:09] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has quit IRC[14:36:38] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has joined #haiku[14:37:07] <jer> is it possible to rebuild haiku inside haiku?[14:37:44] * jer is assuming just the building haiku on beos instructions should suffice[14:38:04] *** Logic has joined #haiku[14:44:57] <OmniMancer1> yes you can I think there are even instructions for haiku[14:45:53] <jer> http://svn.haiku-os.org/haiku/haiku/trunk/docs/userguide/en/installation/install-source-beos.html <-- there's not[14:46:13] <jer> but i figure those instructions should Just Work(tm)[14:46:18] * jer will try tonight[14:48:47] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[14:50:19] <OmniMancer1> the stuff here: http://www.haiku-os.org/guides has no haiku instructions?[14:55:42] <aldeck> it's missing (the doc is being rewritten though)[14:55:47] <aldeck> just get the sources[14:55:58] <aldeck> then ./configure[14:56:02] <aldeck> then jam[14:56:07] <aldeck> jam -q[14:56:10] <aldeck> that's all :)[14:56:17] <jer> aldeck, alright, simple enough =][14:56:19] <jer> thanks[14:56:22] <aldeck> np[14:56:44] <aldeck> the result should then be in generated/haiku.image[15:04:35] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[15:07:02] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[15:08:15] *** SiCuTDeUx__ has quit IRC[15:17:29] <CIA-7> axeld * r34278 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs):[15:17:29] <CIA-7> * Removed the O_* modes that we currently don't and probably won't support[15:17:29] <CIA-7> (O_MOUNT, O_EXLOCK, and O_SHLOCK). I only left the non-standard O_TEMPORARY[15:17:29] <CIA-7> for the time being (as it shouldn't fool anyone).[15:17:29] <CIA-7> * Fixed libutil that already used O_EXLOCK, even though it did not do anything.[15:17:30] <CIA-7> * Moved O_NOCACHE, and O_NOFOLLOW to the section with implemented modes.[15:17:33] <CIA-7> * Added O_DIRECTORY.[15:18:02] *** phalax has quit IRC[15:18:05] <CIA-7> axeld * r34279 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp: * Added support for O_NOFOLLOW.[15:18:13] *** cizra has joined #haiku[15:18:24] <cizra> http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/koki/2009-11-25_what_do_you_know_about_haiku_logo lacks the image.[15:18:30] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[15:18:31] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[15:18:43] <CIA-7> axeld * r34280 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/ (Inode.cpp kernel_interface.cpp): * Implemented O_DIRECTORY in BFS.[15:18:59] *** phalax has joined #haiku[15:22:17] <CIA-7> axeld * r34281 /haiku/trunk/src/libs/util/pidfile.c:[15:22:17] <CIA-7> * Properly fixed libutil; we should not use O_TRUNC before having exclusive[15:22:17] <CIA-7> access to the file.[15:28:37] <CIA-7> axeld * r34282 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp:[15:28:37] <CIA-7> * Eliminated the extra buffer in dir_vnode_to_path(); we write directly to the[15:28:37] <CIA-7> specified buffer now.[15:32:19] <umccullough> happy turkey day to USians[15:32:43] <umccullough> and anyone else who doesn't mind :)[15:34:03] * jer doesn't mind, even though I'm in Soviet Canuckistan, and we had ours back in early October =][15:34:24] <jer> and have for almost 300 years now =p[15:39:35] * Ingenu has no clue what turkey day is, and is too lazy to ask google[15:39:51] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[15:39:52] *** ari2-free has quit IRC[15:39:54] <Ingenu> ah thanksgiving[15:40:05] *** raichoo has quit IRC[15:40:56] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[15:40:57] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[15:43:29] *** cryptic_ has quit IRC[15:44:47] *** prOSy has joined #haiku[15:45:53] *** Shoozza has left #haiku[16:10:16] *** aldeck has quit IRC[16:12:49] *** triplez has joined #haiku[16:17:42] *** ari-free has quit IRC[16:20:10] *** brrant has quit IRC[16:21:59] *** brrant has joined #haiku[16:24:33] *** prOSy has quit IRC[16:24:51] *** gtaw has joined #haiku[16:27:19] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[16:28:33] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[16:38:55] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[16:41:17] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[16:42:18] *** kitallis has quit IRC[16:42:33] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[16:42:38] <CIA-7> bonefish * r34283 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/keymap/Keymap.cpp:[16:42:38] <CIA-7> Replaced hardcoded printf()/scanf() format modifiers by the B_{PRI,SCN}*[16:42:38] <CIA-7> macros. This fixes the broken keymaps when building on a 64 bit host.[16:46:18] <CIA-7> bonefish * r34284 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/unzip/beos.c:[16:46:18] <CIA-7> The attr_info structure has a different size on x86_64, so we need to[16:46:23] <CIA-7> copy the fields individually. This fixes optional package installation.[16:46:49] <CIA-7> bonefish * r34285 /haiku/trunk/src/tools/vmdkimage/vmdkimage.cpp: Fixed 64 bit warnings.[16:49:30] *** Kroki has joined #haiku[16:54:47] *** fcr_ has joined #haiku[17:01:49] <CIA-7> axeld * r34286 /haiku/trunk/headers/build/BeOSBuildCompatibility.h:[17:01:49] <CIA-7> * Map O_NOTRAVERSE to rarely used or non portable O_ modes if possible.[17:01:51] <CIA-7> * Fixed indentation.[17:01:52] *** kmargar is now known as markos_[17:01:59] *** ari-free has joined #haiku[17:04:04] <CIA-7> axeld * r34287 /haiku/trunk/src/build/libroot/fs.cpp: * Minor cleanup.[17:09:25] *** markos_ has quit IRC[17:11:35] *** leszek has joined #haiku[17:11:54] <leszek> hi[17:12:36] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[17:14:23] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[17:15:57] *** The123king has joined #haiku[17:16:53] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[17:17:00] <CIA-7> axeld * r34288 /haiku/trunk/ (20 files in 10 dirs): (log message trimmed)[17:17:00] <CIA-7> * Added missing AT_EACCESS.[17:17:00] <CIA-7> * Implemented renameat(), faccessat(), fchownat(), fchmodat(), and mkfifoat().[17:17:00] <CIA-7> * Added stub for mknodat().[17:17:01] <CIA-7> * The kernel backend for faccessat() does not yet differentiate between[17:17:03] <CIA-7> effective and real user/group IDs, though.[17:17:05] <CIA-7> * Removed B_ENABLE_INCOMPLETE_POSIX_AT_SUPPORT, as we now support everything[17:19:00] <humdinger> Huhu. Any NetPenguin users here?[17:29:30] <gtaw> I guess not?[17:29:59] <The123king> ahhhh... a nice haiku-branded coffee from a Haiku-branded coffee mug[17:30:03] <CIA-7> axeld * r34289 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): * Forgot to add linkat(), this really closes #4928 now.[17:30:05] <The123king> :D[17:30:13] *** joeyadams has joined #haiku[17:30:41] <mmadia> ... haiku brande coffee?[17:31:13] <humdinger> Shame. NetPenguin began crashing recently and I don't know if it was a Haiku update or a result of BePodder messing up my system...[17:31:19] <humdinger> Java??[17:31:25] <humdinger> Is it finally herre? :)[17:31:31] *** fly-away has quit IRC[17:32:14] <The123king> ummmm... it turns out my coffee isn't Haku-branded :([17:32:32] <The123king> but the mug is awesome, and the size of a bucket :D[17:32:45] <CIA-7> axeld * r34290 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/dirent.c: * Minor cleanup.[17:33:58] *** cb88 has joined #haiku[17:34:47] <cb88> how do you go about jaming a single app? for instance jam into a haiku-image on a disk partition from linux[17:35:22] <humdinger> jam -q @PROFILE update name-of-app[17:35:48] <mmadia> neat[17:36:00] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[17:36:17] <humdinger> You have to use a UserBuildProfile, I think.[17:36:19] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[17:36:19] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[17:36:24] <cb88> so that would be ham -q @haiku-image update app[17:36:29] <cb88> *jam[17:36:46] <cb88> I have ham on the brain for some reason X.x[17:36:56] <mmadia> haiku-image isn't a profile[17:37:10] <mmadia> it's a target.[17:37:22] <mmadia> so no '@'[17:37:24] *** mmadia has quit IRC[17:37:32] <cb88> hmm.. ah.. Ic[17:38:05] <humdinger> Does it work outside UserBuildProfiles?[17:38:05] <cb88> that might be worth making a guide for.. at some point[17:38:21] <humdinger> And does it work with images as well, or just when builing into a partition.[17:38:28] <humdinger> I only do the latter, so I dunno...[17:38:35] <CIA-7> axeld * r34291 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp:[17:38:35] <CIA-7> * Use O_CLOEXEC when open directories, attribute directories, indexes, and[17:38:35] <CIA-7> queries.[17:38:58] <humdinger> cb88: it's already there.[17:39:11] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[17:40:07] <cb88> hmm I couldn't fined that...[17:40:13] <humdinger> http://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/installation/install-source-linux.html[17:40:30] <humdinger> The svn paths are out of date though.[17:40:39] <humdinger> It's not part of the user guide anymore.[17:40:59] <humdinger> Some day I have to hunt down the wiki pages/online guides for it.[17:41:02] <mmadia> humdinger : any thoughts on integrating the bits from /guides?[17:41:06] <humdinger> I thinkk they do exist somewhere...[17:41:16] <mmadia> http://haiku-os.org/guides[17:41:47] <humdinger> mmadia: You mean integrate what was in the user guide into those guides?[17:41:58] <mmadia> or vice versa[17:42:00] <cb88> ah.. well thanks im off to ingest large amounts of turkey...[17:42:21] *** The123king has quit IRC[17:42:24] *** cb88 has left #haiku[17:42:24] <mmadia> you're user guide is definitely better looking.[17:42:35] <humdinger> It's an awful lot of work... :)[17:42:45] <humdinger> And I'm no build expert in any way...[17:43:25] <humdinger> Maybe, I'll have a look into putting in at least some parts.[17:43:37] <humdinger> Breaking it down into chapters isn't easy.[17:47:06] <mmadia> i understand, i wrote most of the content at /guides. :|[17:47:13] <umccullough> the build guides are ever-changing anyway :P[17:47:31] <mmadia> in a way though, i feel that the build guides should be at Trac.[17:48:02] <umccullough> for example, i think the whole 32bit thing on 64bit hosts is about to change, or has already[17:48:15] <mmadia> id say it's still wip :)[17:48:17] <umccullough> given all ingo's 64bit host support he has added recently[17:48:58] <umccullough> maintaining a guide for it is like shoveling a sidewalk while it's snowing ;)[17:49:20] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[17:49:32] <humdinger> Getting in the spirit of the season, are you, Urias? :)[17:50:23] <umccullough> heh, i have to scrape the ice off my car every morning already :P[17:51:12][17:51:16] <umccullough> reminds me, i need to re-wrap my pipes[17:51:40] *** tqh has joined #haiku[17:52:02] <umccullough> yeah, we're still getting 50-60F here during the days, but the nights are freezing :([17:52:45] *** The123king has joined #haiku[17:52:46] *** miqlas has quit IRC[17:54:34] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[17:58:17] <CIA-7> axeld * r34292 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/unistd/directory.c: * Minor cleanup.[17:58:53] *** The123king has quit IRC[17:59:27] <CIA-7> axeld * r34293 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/system/syscalls.h: * This fixes the "'noreturn' function returns" warning in exit().[17:59:50] <CIA-7> axeld * r34294 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): * This fixes the remaining warnings in exit.c[18:00:30] *** The123king has joined #haiku[18:08:55] *** wildur_ has joined #Haiku[18:10:45] *** aldeck has quit IRC[18:11:01] * JonathanThompson considers that if pipes need to be re-wrapped, likely there's a design issue[18:12:07] <umccullough> yeah, the design issue is with the stupid tape that dissolves after years of weather[18:12:29] <umccullough> or, perhaps that's by design :([18:12:45] <JonathanThompson> How much weather are the pipes exposed to?[18:13:16] <JonathanThompson> umccullough: think of it this way: they're preventing the tape from being around like crap-filled plastic diapers centuries from now :p[18:13:21] <umccullough> i'm referring to the risers on my faucets in the yard and on the outside of the house[18:13:38] <JonathanThompson> Ah, ok.[18:14:07] <umccullough> the pipes in the crawlspace under my house are a different story[18:14:23] <umccullough> most of them are unwrapped as well, but the crawlspace retains enough heat that it generally doesn't matter much[18:14:38] *** J-Ho has joined #haiku[18:15:03] <JonathanThompson> Though I think it'd still be smart to properly insulate them.[18:15:22] <JonathanThompson> Even though IIRC you're not in an area that tends to get too extreme of temps.[18:19:05] *** binaryimpulse has joined #haiku[18:21:25] *** triplez_ has joined #haiku[18:21:56] <humdinger> A touchpad issue should be Trac component input_server right?[18:23:03] *** gtaw has quit IRC[18:23:15] <mmadia> or Drivers [blank],[18:23:44] <mmadia> ... i'm not sure if Drivers Mouse includes touchpads[18:23:58] <humdinger> It's related to the h/v scrolling area.[18:24:26] <humdinger> I finally found the reason for an annoying issue. Writing the bug report atm[18:28:59] *** tttonyyy has quit IRC[18:29:07] *** markos_ has quit IRC[18:30:19] *** triplez has quit IRC[18:30:20] *** triplez_ is now known as triplez[18:37:05] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[18:42:56] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[18:43:14] <mmadia> hi michaelvo[18:43:30] <michaelvo> hi mmadia[18:44:00] <mmadia> so, is your monitor hooked up to the radeon or the onboard video?[18:44:00] <michaelvo> I just finnished my reply[18:44:24] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[18:44:35] <michaelvo> I don't understand your question[18:44:43] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[18:45:40] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[18:45:41] <mmadia> "but I use DVI adapter at top of D-SUB Cable with my Radeon HD 2600 PRO on it," -- do you mean that a Radeon video card is being used in your pc?[18:46:09] <michaelvo> with the radeon = screen pleflet shows 15.2", with onboard nvidia = screen pleflet shows 17"[18:46:12] <michaelvo> yes[18:46:40] <michaelvo> so I take away the radeon and use the onboard video card[18:47:24] <michaelvo> there's no difference because both falls back on vesa driver[18:48:07] <mmadia> looking at your `listimage | grep graphics` the nvidia driver is indeed loaded.[18:49:03] <mmadia> where is the DVI adapter connected to: the monitor, onboard nvidia, radeon?[18:49:26] *** The123king1 has joined #haiku[18:49:36] *** StreaK|ON has quit IRC[18:49:58] <michaelvo> on onboard nvida.. I only use DVI adapter with radeon[18:50:35] <michaelvo> onboard nvidia = DSUB cable | radeonhd = DSUB cable+DVI adapter[18:52:04] <mmadia> what happens if you remove the radeon from the computer? will Haiku still use vesa for the onboard nvidia?[18:52:20] <michaelvo> Yes! is the current situation now[18:52:41] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[18:52:57] <michaelvo> because of this I wrote on that ticket[18:53:12] *** markos_ has quit IRC[18:53:21] <mmadia> by remove, i mean physically remove the radeon, place it on your desk, and then boot Haiku[18:53:32] <michaelvo> Yes.. I did it ;)[18:53:45] <michaelvo> my radeon is on my bed now[18:53:50] <mmadia> that sucks. :([18:54:15] <mmadia> ... especially as the same chipset works properly here.[18:54:26] <michaelvo> why it only occours with me?? I shot any rock in the jesus cross?[18:54:32] <michaelvo> haha[18:55:07] <michaelvo> Is correct? vesa driver loaded with nvidia driver?[18:55:40] *** luroh has joined #haiku[18:55:42] <mmadia> well.. the vesa driver is always loaded.[18:55:50] <michaelvo> huuuum[18:55:53] <mmadia> as it's used to display the boot logo.[18:56:01] <michaelvo> right[18:56:32] <michaelvo> I was thinking if I throw away vesa driver ... but you gave me the answer[18:56:33] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[18:56:35] <mmadia> but just because the vesa driver is loaded, it doesn't mean that Hiaku is not using the nvidia driver.[18:56:40] <umccullough> no, you don't remove vesa :)[18:56:46] <michaelvo> hahaha[18:56:52] <umccullough> to find out which driver is actaully being used - you can listimage | grep accel[18:57:00] <umccullough> that shows you which accelerant is loaded by the app_server[18:57:31] <michaelvo> 371 /boot/system/add-ons/accelerants/nvidia.accelerant 0x8b0000 0x8e7000 0 0[18:57:32] <michaelvo> TEAM 3817 (/bin/grep accel):[18:57:37] <mmadia> ah... i keep forgetting that bit.[18:57:50] <michaelvo> but in media pref don't show anything[18:58:03] <umccullough> why would media prefs show anything?[18:58:30] <michaelvo> so.. it's right?[18:58:40] <umccullough> you're using the nvidia driver[18:59:01] <michaelvo> video settings on the media pref.. video output:none[18:59:29] <umccullough> honestly, i have no clue what that's even for[18:59:42] <HeTo> that’s for things like full-featured DVB cards or DVD playback accelerators I suppose[18:59:55] *** gtaw has joined #haiku[19:00:00] <umccullough> encoding/decoding i guess[19:00:33] <umccullough> you use the screen preferences to interact with the video driver[19:00:34] *** leszek has quit IRC[19:01:13] <michaelvo> so it's all fine[19:01:21] <michaelvo> thanks for all the help[19:02:06] <michaelvo> but don't change what I'm thinking .. I was thinking with nvidia driver the black screen that I got with opengl demos will go away[19:02:21] <tqh> media settings is for tv cards, video cams and such in and output[19:02:40] <michaelvo> huum.. ok then![19:03:00] <umccullough> michaelvo, that's unrelated IIRC - i think there's a bug in the opengl stack[19:03:06] <umccullough> or bdirectwindow[19:03:36] <umccullough> if you're using SDL, it might even be related to SDL itself[19:04:08] *** The123king has quit IRC[19:04:08] <umccullough> that stuff might all work through vesa because of the difference in how vesa video is handled by the app_server[19:04:51] *** gtaw is now known as gtaw_bored[19:05:17] <michaelvo> no.. the app doesn't link with sdl[19:05:25] <michaelvo> it's a simple opengl demo[19:05:37] <michaelvo> with smokes[19:05:50] *** korli has joined #haiku[19:05:51] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[19:05:59] <umccullough> ask korli :)[19:06:11] <umccullough> or...actually, he doesn't do the opengl stuff IIRC :P[19:06:49] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has quit IRC[19:06:59] <umccullough> nope, that's mostly philippe[19:07:10] <michaelvo> it's phoudoin[19:07:23] *** tqh has quit IRC[19:07:47] <umccullough> although, bdirectwindow issues might be something stefano would know about[19:08:51] <korli> umccullough: good guess in the end :)[19:09:02] <michaelvo> hahaa :P[19:09:28] <umccullough> although, korli might know about your audio issues ;)[19:10:30] <michaelvo> yeah korli, I'm stucked on oss driver with hda[19:11:02] <korli> yeah a pity, you're on nvidia, right ?[19:11:33] *** SiCuTDeUx__ has joined #haiku[19:12:07] <michaelvo> yes[19:12:36] <michaelvo> listdev | grep Audio[19:12:57] <michaelvo> device Multimedia controller (Audio device) [4|3|0][19:12:58] <michaelvo> device 03f0: MCP61 High Definition Audio[19:13:17] <umccullough> i might have the same chip in this machine...[19:13:41] <umccullough> but i rarely boot haiku on it[19:14:12] <michaelvo> finally I got this machine to boot haiku ;)[19:14:27] <michaelvo> I won't upgrade soon[19:16:13] <mmadia> +1 audio issue with the same device id[[19:17:40] <michaelvo> I'll do a new tickt with the black screen problem[19:19:02] <michaelvo> mmadia good looking monitor[19:19:15] <michaelvo> cost US$ 200 in brazil[19:19:20] <michaelvo> very expensive[19:22:09] *** eisensleep is now known as eisenawesome[19:27:41] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[19:27:55] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[19:29:31] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[19:31:53] *** MadEchidna has joined #haiku[19:33:59] *** xvedejas has joined #haiku[19:34:22] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has joined #haiku[19:34:43] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has joined #haiku[19:35:10] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has joined #haiku[19:35:36] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has joined #haiku[19:35:37] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has quit IRC[19:35:58] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has joined #haiku[19:39:08] *** markos_ has quit IRC[19:42:50] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[19:44:24] <CIA-7> korli * r34295 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/network/tcpdump/config.h: avoid redefinitions[19:47:23] *** tqh has joined #haiku[19:48:02] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[19:51:19] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[19:53:38] *** impy has quit IRC[19:54:12] <CIA-7> axeld * r34296 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/tracker/TrackerIcons.rdef:[19:54:12] <CIA-7> * Patch by Matt to replace the leaf disk overlay with a bug for non-release[19:54:14] <CIA-7> versions. This closes ticket #5036.[19:55:09] *** fcr_ is now known as fcr[19:56:04] <StreaK|ON> Synthetic updated -> http://tiny.pl/hx5s4[19:56:25] <humdinger> Hi StreaK|ON[19:56:35] <humdinger> Sorry I'm offline most of the time... :)[19:56:44] <StreaK|ON> Hi :P[19:56:58] <humdinger> Or away eating...[19:57:28] <StreaK|ON> Can You create an account for language-translation purposes for me?[19:58:40] <humdinger> As soon as you guys put your style guide online. :)[19:58:48] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[20:01:09] <michaelvo> umccullough it's a sdl problem ... not our opengl[20:02:03] *** brrant has quit IRC[20:03:11] <StreaK|ON> ok, humdinger[20:03:35] <humdinger> rules, rules, rules... I know. :)[20:04:15] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[20:04:15] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[20:04:24] <StreaK|ON> no problemo, hehe :)[20:04:26] *** impy has joined #haiku[20:06:33] *** markos_ has quit IRC[20:13:52] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[20:14:03] *** thowe has quit IRC[20:16:40] *** ^kenhoob-it1 has quit IRC[20:17:30] *** gtaw_bored has quit IRC[20:20:00] *** slaine_ has quit IRC[20:24:23] *** Logic has quit IRC[20:25:37] *** fly-away has joined #haiku[20:26:18] *** ari-free has quit IRC[20:28:34] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[20:33:14] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[20:33:44] * michaelvo listening Disarmonia Mundi - Losing Ground.mp3[20:35:22] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[20:42:38] *** Albert2 has joined #haiku[20:43:38] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[20:47:49] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[20:47:56] <CIA-7> axeld * r34297 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/locale/Country.cpp: * Fixed broken FormatMonetary() versions which also fixes a warning.[20:53:59] *** humdinger has quit IRC[20:59:04] *** The123king1 has left #haiku[21:00:16] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[21:04:23] *** dpnux has joined #haiku[21:08:58] *** The123king has joined #haiku[21:09:35] <The123king> i want to upgrade from alpha to a recent trunk GCC4-hybrid. any rev suggestions?[21:10:25] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[21:12:08] <tqh> use the latest, report bugs, improve Haiku :)[21:15:34] <The123king> i kinda don't want my HDD to be eated either[21:15:54] *** philcostin has joined #haiku[21:18:59] *** xvedejas is now known as xved[afk][21:21:58] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[21:23:43] *** J-Ho has left #haiku[21:26:44] <Albert2> zhere do i find haiku applications[21:26:56] * kirilla wishes he had some Killepitsch Kräuterlikör..[21:27:11] <Albert2> working and new onces[21:27:28] <Albert2> not crap from bebits[21:27:33] <kirilla> Albert, there's haikufire.com (iirc), haikuware.com and bebits.com[21:27:35] *** korli_ has joined #haiku[21:27:40] <kirilla> ah :)[21:28:22] <Albert2> these 2 last are mirrors right[21:28:47] <kirilla> not mirrors[21:29:00] <kirilla> haikuware and bebits and haikufire are all separate web sites[21:29:03] <StreaK|ON> you can use Synthetic for full 100% haiku compatible apps[21:29:04] <StreaK|ON> :)[21:30:45] <Albert2> where do i find this 100% coton[21:31:16] <Albert2> ergh syntetic[21:31:32] <The123king> it'a on haikuware[21:32:11] <kirilla> there's a new script to enumerate/download/install from the available optional packages for Haiku.. but I can't find it :/[21:32:52] <Albert2> btw i today tried beos 5 , 5.1 , Weta demo 1 now Haiku[21:32:57] <kirilla> it was attached to a Trac enhancement ticket.[21:33:59] <Albert2> last ti;e i used BeOS for real zes a 1997 Preview version for PowerPC Apple or BeBox[21:34:16] <The123king> Albert2: You'd be better off with Haiku, BeOS is ancient (a#lthough what Haiku is trying to become)[21:34:17] <korli_> kirilla: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/4680#comment:6[21:34:23] <Albert2> i have the cd in front of ;e[21:34:31] <kirilla> thanks korli_[21:34:55] <kirilla> Albert2: cool, I also tried it myself back then, on a PowerMac[21:35:02] <StreaK|ON> Albert2: Synthetic -> http://tiny.pl/hx5s4[21:35:19] <The123king> Zeta has uncertain legal standings, BeOS is defunct and Haiku is incomplete, but the one that will probably work the best[21:35:19] <Albert2> anyone intrested in such a preview cd of beos for ppc dated 1997[21:36:00] * The123king is actually in Haiku as he speaks[21:36:32] <kirilla> Albert2: the script on this page should allow you to pick and choose from the so called optional packages: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/4680#comment:6 (which are few but good to have)[21:36:50] <Albert2> me too king m running in haiku now[21:37:04] <kirilla> I've got a BeOS DR8.2 CD.[21:37:08] <Albert2> in virtualpc on a g[21:37:36] <Albert2> G4 PozerMac Tiger[21:38:26] <The123king> Albert2: i'm running on real x86 hardware[21:38:30] <Albert2> trade for a previez cd M[21:38:47] <kirilla> hm... no :)[21:38:57] <Albert2> you get 5[21:39:06] *** dpnux has quit IRC[21:39:14] <The123king> i have no BeOS CD's. i actually only came across BeOS and Hauiku in the last 6 months[21:39:21] <kirilla> five g4 tigers? ;)[21:39:35] <Albert2> no 5 preview cd s[21:39:53] <Albert2> fro; beos ppc[21:40:20] <kirilla> I'm more into keeping my own copy for sentimental reasons[21:40:44] <The123king> if i ever win the lottery i'm getting a BeBox[21:41:06] <kirilla> they were supercool at the time[21:41:13] *** korli has quit IRC[21:41:27] <philcostin> it was acceptable in the 80s. it was acceptable at the tiiiiime.[21:41:29] <Albert2> there zhere better macclones imho[21:41:33] <kirilla> but today, sadly, not so much .. imo :)[21:41:55] <The123king> The BeBox was never a mac clone.... i don't think....[21:42:03] <kirilla> what were those quads... ?[21:42:11] <kirilla> umax?[21:42:15] <The123king> prototype BeBox's i think[21:42:22] *** HaikUbuntu has joined #haiku[21:42:41] <kirilla> there were a 4-cpu mac clone by someone[21:42:42] <Albert2> Umqx mde wuad 604[21:43:31] <Albert2> then again m mac os only used 2[21:43:34] <Albert2> lol[21:43:40] <kirilla> apple should have bought be and kept the clones going :P[21:44:11] <The123king> I dunno, if Apple had bought Be, i don't think Haiku would exist:|[21:44:20] <Albert2> maybe , but next is pretty good too[21:44:24] <StreaK|ON> any of You mastered Wonderbrush maybe?[21:44:39] <Albert2> nope but beos would be os x[21:44:39] <The123king> hmmm, better go wash my Haiku mug :)[21:45:06] <StreaK|ON> because i cannof find image -> resize function[21:45:15] <StreaK|ON> in wonderbrush[21:45:50] <Albert2> if so maybe support for classic would still been there today[21:46:51] <kirilla> I liked MacOS 8 and 9.[21:46:54] <The123king> it's all good speculating, but i'm just glad i have my Haiku :)[21:47:11] <The123king> i have to admit i've never in my life used classic Mac OS[21:47:37] <Albert2> i used to s;ile like most mac users with windows in many aspects , like bill gates is the borgm windows assimilates all[21:47:39] <Albert2> but[21:47:59] <Albert2> the real borg was a certain steve[21:48:06] <kirilla> It wasn't especially stable and the multitasking was technically not so good, but the look and feel was top notch, IMO.[21:48:20] <Albert2> who returnd fro; his next cube 2 apple[21:48:33] <Albert2> and he then assi;ilates o[21:48:43] <Albert2> ;acos to openstep[21:49:26] <The123king> I'm a (soon-to-be-ex-if-haiku-matures-good-enough) Windows user and i have never really had any issues with it as a piece of software. Microsoft is where my issues are[21:49:29] <eisenawesome> how come you keep typing semicolons instead of m's?[21:49:59] <The123king> probably not set his keyboard locale in Haiku ;)[21:50:06] <Albert2> azerty syndrome[21:50:07] <eisenawesome> heh[21:50:51] <The123king> that's something i like in Haiku too, you can completely remap the keyboard if you want :)[21:50:52] <Albert2> fixed :)[21:51:16] <kirilla> thanks Albert2[21:51:37] <Albert2> reqlly next users prolly use os x & laugh at macos users[21:51:57] <Albert2> fooled in thinking it was their os[21:52:05] <kirilla> heh[21:52:15] <kirilla> but were there ever that many next users?[21:52:40] <kirilla> I don't think I've ever met any old NeXT users IRL[21:53:02] <Albert2> omniweb makes os x soft today[21:53:12] <Albert2> but they have no mac roots[21:53:24] *** The123king has quit IRC[21:54:10] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[21:54:34] <Albert2> but it is relative , it's what's in inside[21:54:35] <kirilla> I tried one of the pre-OSX betas.. Yellow-something?.. was still very next-ish[21:55:01] <Albert2> & what's inside is next with a new look[21:55:18] <Albert2> & what's inside is next with a new look[21:55:44] <kirilla> well, everybody knows that. ;)[21:55:50] <Albert2> from 2000 til now all compatibility layers with Mac OS have been cut off[21:56:39] <Albert2> now only leaving carbon & maybe thats gone in 10.6 i dunno[21:58:09] <kirilla> oh yeah.. Rhapsody: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhapsody_(operating_system)[21:58:12] <Albert2> now only leaving carbon & maybe thats gone in 10.6 i dunno years he mqde the Mac users who still think they are Mac users , hence Mac OS X on Mac platform, but who have really been assimilated to NeXT[21:58:18] <kirilla> I was thinking of Yellow Box[21:58:46] <Albert2> yes i have rhapsody & the odd MacOS X 1.0[21:58:48] <kirilla> Next86[21:58:55] <Albert2> ergh server[22:00:17] <Albert2> so now i was thinking to swith to a liberal OS[22:00:29] <CIA-7> axeld * r34298 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/tracker/TrackerIcons.rdef: * Fixed wrong preprocessor statement, thanks Jeroen![22:00:39] <mmu_man> kirilla %28 %29 ![22:00:56] <mmu_man> () doesn't really go well in urls[22:01:04] <Albert2> like BSD , Linux , Haiku , maybe ReactOS[22:01:14] <kirilla> mmu_man: wha? :) I just cut&pasted[22:01:41] <kirilla> mmu_man: you want me to "link different" ;)[22:01:54] <mmu_man> yeah maybe it's just my new Mac :p[22:02:05] <mmu_man> still this it broken in many places[22:02:16] <mmu_man> Vision stops the url at _ as it doesn't count ( as part of it[22:02:25] <Albert2> well get a liberal pc[22:02:30] <mmu_man> just like accented chars shouldn't be used but escaped with %[22:02:41] <mmu_man> Albert2 I'll put Haiku on it too :p[22:02:42] <Albert2> Mac went crapware since they left PPC[22:02:53] <mmu_man> must first add EFI support though[22:02:59] <mmu_man> could install BootCamp maybe[22:03:00] <kirilla> Albert2: I assume you mean libre or "free"?[22:03:08] <Albert2> yeah[22:03:46] <kirilla> are PCs in general that much more free/open than Macs?[22:04:08] <Albert2> well have u ever tried to open an imac[22:04:18] <Albert2> & replace parts[22:04:35] <Albert2> with common available spare parts or extra parts[22:05:06] <kirilla> thank god, no, and I couldn't close my Mac mini properly efter having opened it -- but -- I love its small size[22:05:06] <Albert2> hail to those who build their own macs[22:05:42] <Albert2> the good macs where beige's[22:06:25] *** cizra has left #haiku[22:06:30] <Albert2> & back then already ran BeOS as a surplus to ac[22:06:35] <kirilla> I'm divided.. on one hand I want control over every computer part, on the other hand, I want something that just works, like the latest iMacs.. no cables[22:06:39] <mmu_man> I have a sexy black Performa 5400/180 here[22:06:39] <Albert2> MacOS[22:07:20] <Albert2> well thats a beige in camouflage[22:07:37] <Albert2> did it has a tv tuner ?[22:07:40] <mmu_man> yes[22:07:49] <mmu_man> but no ethernet, just a modem bleh[22:08:00] <mmu_man> anyway, Haiku doesn't boot on it yet[22:08:04] *** SiCuTDeUx__ has quit IRC[22:08:04] <Albert2> cos all hifi apperatus are black[22:08:04] <kirilla> cool, the packagefs builds okay now[22:08:09] <mmu_man> the antique OF has issues with output-device = screen[22:08:22] <mmu_man> need to install a terminal app on the other one and use a serial cable[22:08:34] <mmu_man> bloody GeoPort plugs[22:08:43] <Albert2> i had to do that to run CopeLand[22:08:56] * mmu_man doesn't really like the packagefs idea, but well let's see how it goes[22:09:12] <Albert2> not that copeland ran long[22:09:15] <mmu_man> I tried booting from floppy but it times out[22:09:56] <Albert2> what beos version u try on the 5400[22:10:11] <Albert2> i thk the BeOS Preview supports it[22:10:35] <Albert2> the beOS preview first boots Mac & then reboots to BeOS[22:10:59] <kirilla> mmu_man: yes, it will be interesting to see where it will lead, how well it works - and if its a dead end whether or not it could be used for something else[22:11:12] <Albert2> since the 5400 supports a simmular approuch for Linux & BSD[22:12:06] <Albert2> it's a way to avoid the buggy firmware[22:12:13] <Albert2> open firmware[22:12:19] <mmu_man> Albert2 I don't have a ppc beos CD here[22:12:23] <mmu_man> I tried Haiku[22:12:39] <Albert2> haiku on a ppc mac ?[22:12:46] <mmu_man> yes OldWorld OF (1.x & 2.x) are very broken[22:13:03] <Albert2> you have a haiku ppc build ?[22:13:05] <mmu_man> Albert2 http://unixzen.com/haiku-ppc/[22:13:14] <mmu_man> well it did build recently[22:13:18] <mmu_man> I fixed it several times[22:13:23] <mmu_man> though Ingo likely screwed it up[22:13:47] <Albert2> but isn't the hardware becoming to outdated[22:14:02] <Albert2> only ibm still makes Power[22:14:04] <mmu_man> http://haiku-files.org/ppc/[22:14:17] <mmu_man> well it's still useful[22:14:29] <mmu_man> we don't need 3GHz cpu in Haiku :p[22:14:41] <Albert2> i use it to show of Rhapsody & A/UX[22:14:57] <kirilla> doesn't motorola (forgot the new name) still make PowerPCs?[22:15:02] <Albert2> ergh A/UX is actually a Quadra[22:15:03] <kirilla> and AMCC[22:15:36] <Albert2> embedded in .... vacume cleaners & car electronics[22:15:51] <kirilla> vacume cleaners.. I think not[22:16:19] <kirilla> you're selling powerpc short[22:16:44] <Albert2> i know PPC is good too[22:16:56] <Albert2> look at xbox & playstation[22:17:25] <Albert2> which both run on something ibm branched out of th Power4-5 series[22:18:13] <Albert2> well maybe motorola ppc's are good to , but not like those from ibm[22:19:09] <Albert2> moto still not passed the g' series & their models are still g4 derivates[22:19:15] <kirilla> I'd rather see ultrasparc continue than powerpc .. if I could choose :)[22:19:40] <Albert2> buth they are used in car electronics & for scud rocked[22:19:58] <kirilla> haiku port![22:21:18] <Albert2> well i actually like to see an UltraSparc first[22:21:25] <Albert2> & keep it to[22:21:54] <Albert2> i once saw a rack of em[22:22:09] <Albert2> but there was 2 cm thick glass between us[22:22:23] <eisenawesome> owned[22:23:00] <Albert2> not to mention camera security[22:23:03] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[22:23:10] <CIA-7> stippi * r34299 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/registrar/ShutdownProcess.cpp:[22:23:10] <CIA-7> When we wait for one team, but then another aborts the shutdown process,[22:23:10] <CIA-7> we should make that team accountable, not the one we waited for. This should[22:23:10] <CIA-7> not have been a real problem, but this is more correct anyway.[22:23:19] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[22:23:28] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[22:23:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[22:23:34] <Albert2> not that i would have stolen one[22:24:24] <eisenawesome> no, of course not[22:24:28] <eisenawesome> that would be illegal[22:24:50] *** idefix_dommel has joined #haiku[22:24:50] <Albert2> no , but there was camera's[22:24:54] <Albert2> lol[22:26:01] <Albert2> hey how do i install opera in haiku[22:26:40] *** xved[afk] is now known as xvedejas[22:26:53] <Albert2> & how do i collapse windows to just yellow tabs[22:27:07] <kirilla> Albert2: the Opera for BeOS is ages old.. 3.x something?[22:27:31] <Albert2> it's the newest build they have[22:27:33] <kirilla> Albert2: there is no iconify in place .. or roll-up or whatever its called[22:27:34] <StreaK|ON> ugh.. you want to work with beos opera?[22:27:42] <StreaK|ON> imho waste of time[22:28:23] <Albert2> i see, how do i get latest firefox & mozilla[22:28:23] <kirilla> Albert2: bezilla should be more useful[22:28:31] <StreaK|ON> or SeaMonkey[22:28:33] <kirilla> Albert2: use that optional package script I linked to before[22:28:37] <Albert2> i keep ending upwith a bonecho (firefox) build[22:28:50] <kirilla> make it list optional packages and choose the bezilla package[22:29:03] <kirilla> (from within haiku ofc)[22:29:06] <StreaK|ON> or use arora[22:29:13] <StreaK|ON> browser[22:29:19] <StreaK|ON> with qtlibs[22:29:22] <kirilla> which needs the Qt download[22:29:25] <Albert2> but bezilla = firefox not mozilla[22:29:36] <StreaK|ON> synthetic -> internet and network -> browsers -> arora[22:29:37] <kirilla> Albert2: bezilla = ff[22:29:43] <Albert2> ergh mozilla =ofcorse seamonkey[22:30:07] <StreaK|ON> if you dl it from synthetic, it will download dependencies aswell[22:30:19] <StreaK|ON> without any trouble[22:30:21] <Albert2> nice[22:32:29] <StreaK|ON> btw.. current qt libs crashing on haiku nightlies since some time[22:32:36] <Albert2> ah col a package manager , just what i needed[22:33:15] <StreaK|ON> but works on a1r1 from september[22:35:11] <Albert2> package at a time ?synthetic can't install more then[22:35:21] <StreaK|ON> yes..[22:35:27] <StreaK|ON> only one[22:35:36] <Albert2> i can't select more then[22:35:44] <Albert2> 1[22:36:14] <StreaK|ON> and unfortunetly this will not change currently[22:37:05] <Albert2> why ?[22:37:13] *** gtaw has joined #haiku[22:37:28] <Albert2> a small step for developers but a big step for users[22:38:37] <StreaK|ON> because of limitations and the concepts i made while dev'ng a synthetic[22:38:54] <Albert2> on ubunto i usually have to deselect packages from updates or the total size is too big fr my disk to handle[22:39:42] *** philcostin has left #haiku[22:41:00] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[22:42:52] *** kitallis has quit IRC[22:44:43] <Albert2> why only system/bin & no system/sbin ?[22:45:55] *** phalax has quit IRC[22:46:25] *** phalax has joined #haiku[22:47:13] *** StreaK|ON has quit IRC[22:47:46] <umccullough> haiku isn't linux[22:48:23] <umccullough> you have /boot/system/bin, /boot/common/bin, and /boot/home/config/bin[22:49:13] <Albert2> boot/system/bin/ = /sbin ?[22:49:38] *** Nozy has quit IRC[22:51:01] <Albert2> Well Synthetic is pretty empty[22:51:26] <Albert2> i installed 2 packs out of about Max 30[22:51:50] <Albert2> most categories has zero entries[22:52:36] <Albert2> how about multi user support ? login in , normal / admin users , root / superuser ?[22:53:01] <kirilla> not yet[22:53:16] <Albert2> but it will eventually come ?[22:53:18] <kirilla> but count on it coming eventually[22:53:34] <Albert2> so now we all are like su ?[22:53:45] <kirilla> yes[22:54:37] <kirilla> I'm guessing R2 or R3, depending on how much time will pass between R1 and R2[22:55:18] <Albert2> Well root hasn't need to become a user , but rather a state a user can be in when he knows the password for it[22:56:55] <Albert2> R2 , R3 this sounds a awfully lot like MKLinux here[22:57:28] <kirilla> I expect Haiku to work similar to Linux and OSX when this gets completed.[22:57:59] *** crash_ has joined #haiku[22:58:06] <kirilla> Windows' variant works nicely too, IMO.[22:58:24] <kirilla> MkLinux.. no relation.[22:58:30] <Albert2> Well u should definetly think about remodelling to the Unix/linux file structure then[22:58:35] <kirilla> Release 1, release 2, ...[22:58:46] <kirilla> Albert2: that won't happen.[22:58:59] <Albert2> sure u can modify some parts like Apple did , but this will always backfire sometimes[22:59:47] <kirilla> I mean that I expect sudo:ing (loose concept) to work similar to how it works in MacOS/Linux/Windows.[22:59:58] *** Kroki has quit IRC[23:00:22] <kirilla> I hope that Haiku will avoid the bad flaws of especially Linux and Windows.[23:00:32] <Albert2> wait , if u cheat with the mountpoints all the Unix roor directories could start in your /system/[23:00:37] * cpr420 would prefer pfexec from solaris[23:00:41] <kirilla> the filesystem being one such flaw[23:00:50] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[23:01:10] *** nighty has quit IRC[23:01:19] <kirilla> /system would be off-limits to a non-su[23:01:21] *** nighty_ has joined #haiku[23:02:00] <Albert2> agree , but all the apps live in /system/[23:02:06] <Albert2> Well alot of em do[23:02:25] <kirilla> the system-provided apps, yes[23:02:43] <Albert2> so in future these apps will be root only[23:02:49] <kirilla> no[23:02:56] <Albert2> similar for the preferences[23:02:58] <kirilla> you will still be able to run them[23:03:15] <Albert2> but u want them to stay there then ?[23:03:17] <kirilla> just no writing below /system[23:03:28] *** tqh has quit IRC[23:04:04] <kirilla> you (or package manager) place other apps/software elsewhere[23:04:21] <kirilla> like in /boo/common (shared by all)[23:04:34] <kirilla> that would be "/boot/common"[23:04:51] <Albert2> i ussually not like windows but[23:05:00] <kirilla> or in your home folder, if you want your "own" apps there[23:05:20] <Albert2> something i do like of it & feel like a miss in OS X or all other User based OS's[23:05:28] <Albert2> is the "All" User[23:06:02] <Albert2> which essentially brings apps to All users available[23:06:52] <Albert2> so the /apps/ will be available for system provided but none SU Apps[23:06:57] *** PasNox has quit IRC[23:07:18] <Albert2> idem dito for prefpanes libraries & such[23:07:22] *** leszek has joined #haiku[23:07:22] <kirilla> what do you mean by SU apps?[23:07:47] <kirilla> admin apps?[23:07:52] <leszek> re[23:08:08] <Albert2> Apps that will require SU or Admin rights to execute , files that require same for viewing & altering[23:08:19] <leszek> ?[23:08:28] <leszek> su apps , nice xD[23:09:05] <Albert2> altering those files maybe even not permitted by su by system but only through an su software update Appliction[23:09:28] *** crash_ has quit IRC[23:09:53] <Albert2> lets say it like this why not look for the mistakes in OS X & learn from those[23:09:54] <kirilla> such a three-layer solution is not likely[23:10:06] *** crash_ has joined #haiku[23:10:38] <Albert2> & this "All" user feature like Windows has it is really awesome too[23:10:55] <kirilla> there is the kernel and the userland, and you have either super-user or not super-user, and any other userland-attempt att layered priveledges is bound to fail[23:11:16] <Albert2> yes[23:11:25] <Albert2> but u have multiple users[23:11:36] <Albert2> who use system wide apps[23:11:50] <Albert2> & who use their own apps[23:12:17] <Albert2> but sometimes some of em all use some apps buth these are non system wide[23:12:44] <kirilla> you mean group-specific apps[23:12:46] <kirilla> ?[23:12:46] <Albert2> Apple made a "shared" non user[23:13:00] <Albert2> but it is just a folder[23:13:34] <Albert2> what if the "all" user would log in always system controlled[23:13:46] <Albert2> together with any user[23:13:47] <kirilla> I don't know what the other developers are planning for multiuser, but I expect the expose all apps to all users to be the primary scheme and anything else to be the exception.[23:13:54] <Albert2> & they merge[23:15:03] <Albert2> Well thats how it works in Windows[23:15:16] <kirilla> anything that is just a matter of presentation is possible[23:15:19] *** manvich has joined #haiku[23:15:54] <Albert2> okay , thiw would essentually means that in the home for all users[23:16:06] <Albert2> so where the home folders would be[23:16:35] <Albert2> Would always be a "All" user which is protected[23:16:56] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[23:17:14] <Albert2> so for any user this "All" seems inaccessable for them[23:17:14] <kirilla> I don't quite follow what it is you want.[23:17:38] <Albert2> but an admin can enter in all users if only for supervision[23:17:55] <Albert2> so so can the su , the su'd installer[23:17:57] <rennj> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rbac[23:18:17] <Albert2> which means the installer was started by an admin anyhow[23:18:37] <Albert2> now all Apps , , pref panes , libs , other stuff[23:19:05] <Albert2> installed in all would be added to any user virtually as if it are his apps , etc[23:19:47] <Albert2> as links maybe to give the expierienced user some notice this are the All files[23:20:28] <Albert2> & now u mentioned groups[23:20:53] <Albert2> with groups , u can make All A , All B , AAL C , ...[23:21:15] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[23:21:36] <Albert2> now a group can be associated & only all users of the group see the group specific all[23:22:07] <Albert2> like all the users who need a lot of codecs are in a sepperate group[23:22:19] <kirilla> In a unix-like system a process runs as the user who runs it, with the access rights of the current user. It doesn't matter where it lives or who installed it.[23:22:29] <Albert2> exotic codecs will be installed in that groups all user[23:22:54] <Albert2> more commen decodecs would be placed in system wide 'all' user[23:23:31] <Albert2> The point is to make stuf accessible[23:23:59] <Albert2> & then it runs with the users rights since the All user is only virtual[23:25:20] *** phalax has quit IRC[23:26:17] <kirilla> I don't know to what degree Haiku aspires to make all aspects of the environment be presented differently depending on the group's a user belongs to. Overall the idea is to keep things simple. Not over-engineering,[23:27:15] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[23:28:09] <kirilla> But who knows where we will end up. There's a lot of discussion ahead, I'm sure.[23:29:15] <kirilla> It should not be impossible to support the things you have mentioned.[23:30:50] <kirilla> Albert2: if you have development skills and want to influence the future development of Haiku you might want to subscribe to the haiku-development mailing-list.[23:31:03] <Albert2> i think it would certainly be helpfull for system Administering[23:31:55] <Albert2> the problem is i cannot code , bu i tend to try alot , so see alot of differences & i look for the details[23:32:41] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[23:32:49] <kirilla> perhaps its just a matter of real/effective user/group and filesystem access rights[23:32:59] <Albert2> lets be honnest , if you think Windows is crap & u use it & still find in that huge pile of crap 1 very exelent feature[23:33:23] *** Andrius has quit IRC[23:33:44] <Albert2> hmm , maybe it's patented[23:34:02] *** leszek has quit IRC[23:35:24] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[23:35:34] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[23:35:34] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[23:36:12] *** surrounder has quit IRC[23:38:34] *** gobgob has joined #haiku[23:45:49] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:47:28] *** triplez has quit IRC[23:48:23] *** luroh has quit IRC[23:58:18] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[23:59:45] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC