November 14, 2009 
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November 14, 2009 [00:00:10] <helf|laptop> egarim, um, CDMA is deployed not just in the USA afaik[00:00:17] <helf|laptop> its just not as widespread as gsm by a long shot[00:00:38] <egarim> also, the long-term prospects of EV-DO's continued speed increases are dubious for highly technical reasons. T-Mobile's 4G network is already coming on line while Verizon's plans seem to be evaporating.[00:00:52] <egarim> well, it's also used in China[00:00:55] <egarim> but that's basically it[00:00:59] <helf|laptop> see :P[00:01:02] <helf|laptop> not just the usa ;)[00:01:09] <helf|laptop> nah, I may switch providers in the near future[00:01:14] <helf|laptop> sprints coverage here kinda sucks[00:01:15] <egarim> and it's a different band, so the devices aren't interoperable even though the wireless stack is the same[00:01:21] <helf|laptop> and the lack of phone options is frustrating[00:02:02] <egarim> like, the G1 is only world-capable because in addition to T-Mobile's weird 1700 band, it also supports the int'l bands[00:02:05] <helf|laptop> are there any android phones that arent sliders that have a qwerty keypad?[00:02:12] * helf|laptop despises trying to use onscreen keyboards[00:02:18] <egarim> I just realized how far we've drifted off-topic, ha[00:02:23] <helf|laptop> heh[00:02:23] <egarim> I'll stop contributing ^^[00:02:33] <helf|laptop> no, this is how conversations work ;)[00:02:46] <egarim> actually, ON-TOPIC, I'm thinking about making a Haiku skin for Android[00:02:57] <egarim> and matching icons[00:03:01] <helf|laptop> i almost bought the samsung phone for sprint today[00:03:08] <helf|laptop> but then i noticed its running vanilla cupcake[00:03:20] <helf|laptop> i think ill wait for a 2.0 phone[00:03:23] <egarim> like imagine that little app tray tab at the bottom styled like a window tab - glorious yellow[00:03:38] <egarim> wha? that thing's running 1.5?[00:03:40] <egarim> that's weird[00:03:59] <egarim> way to be behind the times, Sprint <<[00:04:17] <helf|laptop> its samsung, not sprint[00:04:17] <helf|laptop> :P[00:04:20] <helf|laptop> well, it might be 1.6[00:04:22] <helf|laptop> but i think its v1.5[00:04:29] <egarim> 1.6 would be Donut[00:04:41] <helf|laptop> pretty sure i read its running cupcake[00:04:43] <helf|laptop> id have to verify[00:04:51] <egarim> I wonder what's after Eclair[00:04:53] <egarim> Fritter?[00:05:00] <helf|laptop> fudge[00:05:05] <egarim> wow[00:05:06] <egarim> nice[00:05:11] <helf|laptop> then i can tell people im packing fudge[00:05:12] <helf|laptop> ho ho[00:05:17] <helf|laptop> no, i have no idea.[00:05:22] * egarim groans.[00:05:41] <helf|laptop> anyways, ive only used 1.5 phones[00:05:46] <helf|laptop> so im hoping 2.0 is better[00:06:14] <helf|laptop> at this point, i just want a phone that isnt having issues with the radio getting stuck in weird states requiring multiple resets tofix[00:07:03] <egarim> I've had some major improvements since switching to CyanogenMod[00:07:27] <kolla> is there a way I can map capslock to work as ctrl?[00:07:33] <egarim> but the G1's hardware restrictions are really frustrating[00:07:38] <kolla> (or else I go mad)[00:07:53] <helf|laptop> egarim, its ugly, too, imo :)[00:07:56] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[00:08:00] <helf|laptop> I HATE the chin most android phones sported for awhile[00:08:00] <kolla> oh, found it[00:08:04] <kolla> elegant[00:08:06] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[00:08:36] <egarim> How do you do key reassignment in Haiku? I hope it's more straightforward than xmodmap[00:08:41] <helf|laptop> i love my old house sometimes. i have juno reactor thumping at a comfortably loud level and you can barely hear it on the bottom floor :)[00:08:49] <helf|laptop> prefs keyboard app[00:08:50] <helf|laptop> iirc[00:08:56] <egarim> oh[00:08:59] <egarim> elegant indeed[00:09:00] <kolla> egein keymap tool, you can drag and drop the keys to whatever location you want[00:09:11] <helf|laptop> oh right. isnt that how beos did it?[00:09:12] <kolla> uhm.. egarim, I meant[00:09:13] <egarim> wow, that's nice[00:09:32] <helf|laptop> egarim, things like that are what happens when stuff is sensibly developed ;)[00:09:32] <kolla> helf|laptop: dont remember[00:09:39] <egarim> heh, in case my name confounds, it's just "mirage" backwards[00:09:49] <helf|laptop> i was wondeirng :P[00:09:52] <kolla> I never ownen a beos system, and never bothered to mess up someone elses keyboard :)[00:10:01] <helf|laptop> oh :)[00:10:16] <helf|laptop> i have a 100% beos compatible system i need to get rid of[00:10:19] <egarim> I'm trying really, really hard not to forcibly swap CTRL and Alt[00:10:26] <egarim> trying to get used to the Haiku usage[00:10:26] <egarim> heh[00:10:30] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[00:11:00] <egarim> Ctrl+Tab to bring up the Twitcher and Alt+S to save are probably my most ingrained muscle memories[00:11:16] <egarim> er, are the hardest to do because of those memories (Alt+Tab and Ctrl+S)[00:12:38] <helf|laptop> i didnt have too much of an issue with the swap[00:12:45] <helf|laptop> but that might have something to do with me being an os whore[00:12:52] <helf|laptop> and running different OSes all the time[00:13:21] <egarim> I've used nothing but Ubuntu for the past year or so[00:13:33] <egarim> well, actually I did try Fedora at one point in there[00:13:42] *** Advant_ has quit IRC[00:13:47] <helf|laptop> im running ubuntu, too[00:13:52] <helf|laptop> at the moment[00:13:55] *** miqlas has quit IRC[00:14:00] <helf|laptop> still have an XP machine and my NeXT running nextstep[00:14:09] <HeTo> I had to learn the BeOS order for command because I certainly didn't want to alt+c in terminal to send SIGINT[00:14:09] <egarim> Ubuntu is my mainstay, but Haiku is already almost usable for my laptop[00:14:14] *** Advant_ has joined #Haiku[00:14:16] <egarim> just needs a word processor ^^[00:14:36] <helf|laptop> HeTo, the lack of consistency in windows/unix OSes when it comes to that is annoying[00:14:54] <egarim> oh, right, and I use Windows at work, but that is utterly against my will <<[00:17:05] <helf|laptop> 'eh, I don't harbor any kind of hatred towards it :P[00:17:11] <helf|laptop> which is apparnetly rare on the 'net[00:17:20] <helf|laptop> it can get annoying at times, tho[00:17:21] <egarim> I don't hate it, I just don't like using it[00:17:30] <helf|laptop> cool[00:17:36] <helf|laptop> used OSX?[00:17:47] <helf|laptop> I've tried to use it.. but I just cant stand the mac interface[00:17:49] <egarim> I've used it, but only very passingly - on a Mac at school[00:18:46] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[00:18:51] <egarim> OS X offends me a great deal less than Windows, I will say that[00:19:14] <egarim> at least when I drop into a Terminal I can use ls and grep and all that good stuff[00:19:41] <egarim> but the interface doesn't agree with the way my brain works[00:20:33] <helf|laptop> heh[00:20:44] *** yamokidzu-it has quit IRC[00:20:49] <helf|laptop> offends :P[00:20:51] <helf|laptop> I love that word[00:21:01] <kirilla> yeah, what's up with that WIMP thing anyway.. ;P[00:21:10] *** duaneb has joined #haiku[00:21:17] *** broadcast has quit IRC[00:21:21] <egarim> WIMP?[00:21:29] <kirilla> windows, icons, menu, pointer[00:21:34] <mmu_man> != WiMP[00:21:38] <egarim> ohh[00:21:40] <mmu_man> (Windows Media Player)[00:21:47] <egarim> heh[00:23:10] <egarim> I, of course, take no issue with windows, menus, icons, and a cursor. Specifically I detest the Dock and the utterly ludicrous placement of the menu bar[00:23:22] <kirilla> heh :)[00:23:57] <kirilla> I don't think I would mind those much, if I was using OSX[00:24:09] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[00:24:18] <kirilla> but I liked classic MacOS, so maybe I'm disqualified[00:24:24] *** joshc has quit IRC[00:24:29] <egarim> Windows 7 seems to have taken up its own version of the Dock, which is great news. As though Windows wasn't confusing enough already[00:24:45] <HeTo> the menu bar at the top of the screen is good, I'd use it if KDE 4 supported it[00:24:58] <egarim> KDE 4 dropped that?[00:25:07] <HeTo> because you can place icons, the clock and a few other controls on the same bar[00:25:17] <fly-away> Windows 7 seems to have taken up its own very suck version of the Dock[00:25:37] <egarim> well, to say a feature of Windows is bad is rather redundant ^^[00:25:38] <mmu_man> except the dock idea is not really new...[00:25:40] <HeTo> egarim: yes, they haven't implemented it workingly yet on Plasma[00:25:48] <kirilla> I do like a screen that looks "open" upwards, so the apps stand on something, rather than hang from something[00:26:17] <egarim> now there's the kind of URL tr.im was invented for[00:26:18] <egarim> heh[00:26:21] <HeTo> but, I haven't used OS X really, but the Dock in it surely looks idiotic[00:26:46] <kirilla> bbl[00:26:50] *** kirilla has quit IRC[00:27:01] <egarim> I don't like having apps I often run mashed in with apps that are running[00:27:18] <HeTo> I liked the NeXT Dock, too bad it's not implemented in many other places[00:27:27] <egarim> never used NeXT[00:27:52] <egarim> though I understand that's what MacOS is ultimately derived from[00:27:56] <HeTo> egarim: well, I don't think I'd like having apps that I often run mashed with apps that I run less often but am running now[00:28:37] <egarim> though now that I think of it, that's exactly what Android does[00:28:50] <HeTo> however using the slot for the app I often run to provide access to the app when I'm running it is sensible[00:29:03] <egarim> so I guess it's just a typical case of "only if it's done just right"[00:29:43] *** leonard_ has joined #haiku[00:29:46] <egarim> I don't like that system, HeTo, because it makes launching multiple instances of something unnecessarily convoluted[00:30:03] <HeTo> I especially like the way you add things to the Dock: you just drag the application's icon from wherever it is on the desktop (at the bottom left by default) to the Dock[00:30:10] <egarim> like, what if I want two windows - I have to click it, then right-click it and do something most likely, since clicking it again would just focus it[00:30:17] <HeTo> egarim: that's why every app should have a new command, accessible by cmd+n[00:30:36] <leonard_> hi[00:30:37] <egarim> but that makes me go to the keyboard for that[00:30:45] <egarim> it's just inefficient and not the way I prefer to do business =)[00:30:55] *** raichoo has quit IRC[00:30:59] <HeTo> except for apps where it doesn't make sense to open two instances (liek a preferences panel for instance)[00:31:27] <HeTo> egarim: of course you could access it from the application menu[00:31:29] <egarim> but then you're asking the app developer to decide whether it makes sense for two of those to be open, which the app developer is likely to get wrong[00:31:45] <egarim> there might be perfectly valid reasons to open two preferences panels at the same time[00:32:20] <egarim> limiting the user in the interest of making an inconvenient interface work seems like a double-whammy to me[00:32:40] <egarim> anyway, this is why I latched onto Linux. Everyone gets what they want. =)[00:33:02] <HeTo> not of the same preferences panel usually; and if you do open two of them, they aren't likely to work right (changes made in one probably don't propagate to the other, and the system ends up in the state specified by whatever was closed last/wherever you last pressed OK)[00:33:39] <egarim> That would be the app developer's fault, now wouldn't it?[00:33:57] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[00:34:05] <egarim> I'm a QA engineer by trade, and that is just the kind of thing I'd log a bug against[00:34:18] <HeTo> yes, which is why it should be the app developer's responsibility to add the new window functionality[00:34:27] <HeTo> if you add it, you can expect it to work right[00:35:00] <egarim> but then you're at the mercy of the app developer to add it. If they overlook it, the app loses functionality that 90% of the time would work automatically[00:35:13] <HeTo> and of course, the menu command should by default be in an application menu when you create a new project[00:35:19] <egarim> you seem to be suggesting the special-casing of the general case.[00:35:56] <egarim> anyway this is turning into a debate, which doesn't belong here. ^^[00:36:06] <HeTo> I don't think I've seen any NeXT or GNUstep app that could use cmd+n but doesn't have it[00:36:08] <egarim> it's just a difference of opinion anyway[00:36:18] <HeTo> not that I've tried a lot of them, though[00:36:28] <egarim> I've never used NeXT[00:36:37] <egarim> or GNUstep[00:37:24] <HeTo> and theoretically you could have a default implementation for the new command that launches a new instance of the application, although I don't think NeXT does it that way (they prefer single instance if I'm not mistaken)[00:39:35] <egarim> allowing the application to decide whether or not it is reasonable to run more than one instance limits the user, so it's just bad policy in my book[00:39:48] *** gtaw has joined #haiku[00:41:05] *** lstarnes has joined #haiku[00:41:16] *** HaikuBot has quit IRC[00:41:29] <egarim> now, I can see the case of an app with very complex storage or whatever - a game, for example - that would take a ton of work to make it cope with other instances, explicitly preventing that action by detecting that another instance is running and aborting (as they do), but giving over the right to decide that the app can be launched at all to the developer lessens the power of the user, which goes against the tenets of free software[00:42:37] *** StreaK|ON has quit IRC[00:43:00] <HeTo> so, what are you exactly saying? it is sensible to give the developer the possibility to prevent multiple instances, but it mustn't be made too easy?[00:43:19] <HeTo> and what if someone implements a library that makes it easy, anyway?[00:44:08] <egarim> I'm saying that applications should be able to run multiple instances in parallel by default. That is all I am saying.[00:44:27] <egarim> well, slightly further, that doing so shouldn't require the app developer to do anything[00:45:23] *** egarim has left #haiku[00:45:38] <HeTo> as I said, you can have that in the new application template, and some way of having multiple windows should be there (whether it's through multiple instances or just multiple main windows); meh, just leave, then[00:48:07] *** kirilla has quit IRC[00:48:45] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[00:57:05] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[00:58:06] <kolla> heh, zsh-3.16.1 - that's ancient :)[01:01:24] *** duaneb has quit IRC[01:02:28] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[01:02:41] *** Advant_ is now known as Advant[01:06:50] *** crash_ has quit IRC[01:11:46] *** redblue has joined #haiku[01:19:23] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[01:19:26] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[01:28:57] *** mvfranz has joined #haiku[01:30:51] *** glootech has quit IRC[01:31:08] *** glootech has joined #haiku[01:35:21] *** xvedejas has quit IRC[01:44:30] *** impy has quit IRC[01:50:42] *** oco has quit IRC[01:51:30] *** miqlas has quit IRC[01:58:16] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[02:00:05] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[02:00:46] *** egarim has joined #haiku[02:00:53] *** The123king has quit IRC[02:01:10] *** amuck_ has quit IRC[02:01:31] <egarim> /me has returned![02:03:14] *** henrym has quit IRC[02:03:42] *** henrym has joined #haiku[02:03:52] <egarim> so much crashing[02:04:03] * JonathanThompson returns egarim to sender()[02:04:17] <egarim> aww[02:05:53] <egarim> i always get mail for some Martin Winger, who im pretty sure is dead.[02:06:23] <JonathanThompson> So, he's a Wrong Winger, and not a Right Winger.[02:06:34] <egarim> he was like 85 when my grandfather bough this house from him 30 years ago <<[02:06:37] <egarim> lokl[02:07:20] <egarim> so he's either dead or an impressive 115[02:07:52] <egarim> <- mildly surprised at her own ability to add[02:08:32] * JonathanThompson falls over in shock[02:08:41] <JonathanThompson> A female Haiku user???? Amazing! :D[02:09:18] <JonathanThompson> We need more![02:09:50] * JonathanThompson doesn't understand why such communities are so heavily male-biased[02:10:22] <egarim> yeah, i never understood that either[02:10:37] <JonathanThompson> But, it seems to be the reality.[02:11:03] <egarim> considering half my developer coworkers are women[02:11:15] <egarim> oo[02:11:32] <JonathanThompson> I don't know where you're at, but I don't think I've seen that statistic anywhere I've worked.[02:13:02] <JonathanThompson> I can't help but think there's a lot of cultural stereotyping/expectations that lead to the imbalance.[02:13:15] <JonathanThompson> Peer pressure, partially, I suspect has a lot to do with it.[02:13:19] <AlienSoldier> JonathanThompson skynet come back to the past and kill them all[02:13:28] <JonathanThompson> That must be it, AlienSoldier :P[02:13:32] *** kolla has quit IRC[02:13:37] <AlienSoldier> only logical reason[02:14:04] * AlienSoldier poit the terminator[02:14:18] * JonathanThompson has trained AlienSoldier well[02:14:54] <AlienSoldier> it's the Pavlov poit[02:15:05] <JonathanThompson> Are you drooling yet?[02:16:01] <AlienSoldier> i don't know, i am paralysed from the lower jaw :P[02:16:19] * JonathanThompson hands AlienSoldier a bib[02:16:53] <JonathanThompson> Get back from a dental appointment earlier today, AlienSoldier ?[02:16:56] *** fly-away has quit IRC[02:17:31] <AlienSoldier> no just needed a reason to hide that i drool like a pervert[02:17:34] *** triplez has quit IRC[02:17:57] * AlienSoldier hope he creep JonathanThompson so he will not sleep for weeks[02:18:09] * JonathanThompson hasn't known enough perverts to note that they're drooling-queens[02:19:07] * JonathanThompson doesn't think AlienSoldier will succeed in his dastardly quest[02:23:20] <egarim> bastardly deeds would be a good band name[02:24:35] <JonathanThompson> That's a good one, perhaps for hard/acid rock or rap.[02:24:45] <egarim> but yeah, about half of my coworkers who are developers are women, though that seems more common than true geeks like myself, heh.[02:25:05] <egarim> that is, it's a work thing[02:25:30] <egarim> or some kind of foul power metal[02:25:32] <egarim> haha[02:25:34] <JonathanThompson> As in, most do it at work, but don't live the life outside of work?[02:25:54] <egarim> heh... 'programmer chicks do it at work'[02:25:57] * JonathanThompson wonders how many dreams he's had with code in them[02:26:00] <egarim> sorry, i had to[02:26:19] * JonathanThompson wonders which 'it' is being referred to ;)[02:26:22] <egarim> yeah i guess so[02:26:59] <JonathanThompson> Hmmmm... perhaps my sentence earlier left room for misinterpretation :P[02:28:30] <AlienSoldier> must be "downloading porn"[02:28:31] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[02:29:08] <egarim> most english sentences do, heh[02:29:30] <JonathanThompson> Precisely vague.[02:29:43] <egarim> haha[02:29:48] <JonathanThompson> Of course, you should check out languages of the orient for pluralization issues :)[02:29:56] <egarim> 'precise' is such a precise word[02:30:02] *** haiku has quit IRC[02:30:28] <AlienSoldier> it coee before cise[02:30:31] <AlienSoldier> *come[02:30:42] <egarim> Watakushi-wa amerjin desu![02:30:55] <JonathanThompson> Are you sure it wasn't your typing hands that are paralyzed, AlienSoldier ?[02:31:29] <egarim> precise is one of my favorite words[02:31:36] <egarim> evince is even better[02:32:15] <egarim> and it is a Linux PDF reader, which is cool[02:33:05] <JonathanThompson> Don't forget to learn about (if you don't already know it) the word quaquaversal.[02:33:19] <JonathanThompson> Truly a useful word for esoteric descriptions of things like dynamite explosions![02:33:37] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[02:35:43] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[02:36:04] <AlienSoldier> I prefer Dolemite explosion[02:36:19] <egarim> i do not know that word! thanks[02:36:25] <egarim> heh, dolemite[02:37:04] <egarim> if i weren't taking a geology class right now, i wouldn't have gotten that[02:37:06] <egarim> ^^[02:37:24] <JonathanThompson> It'd take eons for it to sink in? :)[02:37:40] <JonathanThompson> Or aeons depending on locality of spelling.[02:39:46] <egarim> heh[02:40:35] *** mvfranz has quit IRC[02:44:59] <egarim> doh, roasted grub[02:46:16] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[02:51:30] *** haiku has joined #haiku[02:52:26] *** egarim has left #haiku[02:52:55] <haiku> Has NathanP dissappeared?[02:53:11] *** egarim has joined #haiku[02:53:16] <egarim> ah[02:53:18] <egarim> Vision[02:54:48] <egarim> frying food without a spider is rather difficult work[02:55:05] <haiku> spider?[02:56:50] <egarim> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_(Cooking)[02:56:55] <egarim> bah, urlfail[02:58:08] <egarim> it's a shallow wire mesh basket on the end of a handle used to hoist food out of frying oil[02:59:59] *** MadEchidna has joined #haiku[03:00:40] <egarim> that is very strange[03:00:44] <egarim> this mouse was working before[03:00:49] <egarim> oh, and it's working now[03:00:55] <egarim> ah, alpha software[03:04:46] <egarim> BeZilla seems to hang randomly. Does anyone else experience this?[03:06:30] <haiku> hangs, how?[03:06:31] <egarim> on second inspection, it appears to be a DNS issue and not the browser[03:07:01] <haiku> it takes about 7 seconds to load in VM[03:07:54] <haiku> are there any plans on a webkit based browser?[03:08:50] <haiku> perhaps porting Opera[03:10:37] *** amuck has quit IRC[03:12:28] *** egarim has quit IRC[03:15:42] *** haiku has quit IRC[03:21:16] <AlienSoldier> haiku a webkit browser is in development[03:21:33] <AlienSoldier> + the QT browser[03:31:56] *** wildur has quit IRC[03:35:26] *** triplez has joined #haiku[03:39:25] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[03:43:00] *** adb has quit IRC[03:43:43] *** xvedejas has joined #haiku[03:47:58] *** redblue has quit IRC[03:57:07] *** adb has joined #haiku[03:59:59] *** henrym has quit IRC[04:09:57] *** egarim has joined #haiku[04:11:24] *** egarim has quit IRC[04:11:47] *** egarim has joined #haiku[04:12:00] <egarim> looks like these atheros drivers still have some 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#Haiku[08:30:25] *** redblue has joined #haiku[08:30:59] *** joshc has joined #haiku[08:32:06] *** impy has quit IRC[08:33:15] *** skarmiglione has joined #haiku[08:41:06] *** nutela has joined #haiku[08:41:33] *** triplez has quit IRC[08:41:49] *** wildur has quit IRC[08:43:10] *** MrSunshine__ has quit IRC[08:43:21] *** gobgob has joined #haiku[08:47:42] *** gtaw has quit IRC[08:51:00] *** nutela has quit IRC[08:52:44] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[08:53:49] *** mmadia has quit IRC[09:02:59] *** Hugen has joined #haiku[09:06:40] *** markos__ has joined #haiku[09:08:12] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[09:09:41] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[09:11:46] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[09:12:39] *** MrSunshine is now known as sys2[09:16:18] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[09:17:03] *** markos_ has quit IRC[09:17:03] *** markos__ is now known as markos_[09:24:57] *** yamokidzu-it has joined #haiku[09:36:26] <CIA-69> pulkomandy * r34026 /haiku/trunk/data/catalogs/preferences/network/fr.catkeys:[09:36:26] <CIA-69> Improved translation for network preferences :[09:40:13] *** michail has joined #haiku[09:44:31] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[09:47:04] *** fhein has joined #haiku[09:48:28] *** tqh has joined #haiku[09:50:03] *** miqlas has quit IRC[09:50:06] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[10:12:38] *** michail has quit IRC[10:19:44] *** michail has joined #haiku[10:20:35] *** phalax has joined #haiku[10:25:41] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[10:35:16] *** HaikuBot has joined #haiku[10:43:19] *** markos__ has joined #haiku[10:43:49] *** markos_ is now known as Guest64380[10:44:02] *** markos__ is now known as markos_[10:48:29] *** dres has joined #haiku[10:52:54] *** dflemstr has joined #haiku[10:57:15] *** nutela has joined #haiku[11:00:54] *** Guest64380 has quit IRC[11:01:27] *** binaryimpulse has quit IRC[11:01:40] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[11:05:03] *** michail has quit IRC[11:06:08] *** The123king has joined #haiku[11:09:02] *** michail has joined #haiku[11:13:15] *** broadcast has joined #haiku[11:18:53] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[11:18:59] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[11:21:14] <farhaven> is there some kind of lspci for haiku?[11:21:27] <farhaven> my ethernet card isn't supported and i want to find out what card i actually have[11:21:29] *** kitallis has quit IRC[11:21:42] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[11:22:10] <tqh> there are some list.. type cmds[11:22:19] <farhaven> thx[11:22:31] <farhaven> ah, listdev does what i want[11:22:35] <farhaven> thanks a lot :D[11:22:50] <sys2> gah i want my haiku laptop now! =)[11:22:53] <tqh> np[11:22:58] <farhaven> btw, there was this freebsd network driver compat layer, right>[11:23:19] <farhaven> so basically i just rip out the freebsd driver for my card, compile it and then i'm good to go?[11:23:21] <tqh> yes there is, but drivers need to be compiled with it[11:23:30] <tqh> farhaven, in best case yes[11:23:35] <farhaven> wonderful :D[11:23:45] <farhaven> sys2: guess what i'm trying to get to run atm :D[11:23:51] <sys2> worst case you have to hack it .. or add more features to the compat layer etc :P[11:23:57] <farhaven> runs fine on my dell latitude 2100 so far, only ethernet and wlan are not working[11:24:05] <farhaven> sys2: cool :D[11:24:05] <sys2> farhaven, well the laptop im soon receiving is totaly compatible with current haiku[11:24:09] *** kitallis has quit IRC[11:24:10] <farhaven> neat[11:24:12] <sys2> graphics, network, usb, cdrom etc etc etc[11:24:12] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[11:24:12] <sys2> =)[11:24:13] <farhaven> even wlan?[11:24:16] <sys2> no wlan in it :/[11:24:21] <sys2> its for a dev station so[11:24:25] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[11:24:29] <farhaven> wtf kind of laptop is that?[11:24:30] <sys2> it will stand still and be wired up to the wall :P[11:24:34] <sys2> farhaven, old =)[11:24:43] <sys2> P4 2.66GHz .. its like 5 years or older =)[11:25:01] <sys2> its my sisters old laptop so :)[11:25:13] <sys2> runs haiku blazingly fast but windows is like mocking throught the ick[11:25:21] <farhaven> hehe[11:25:24] <farhaven> no surprise :D[11:25:37] <farhaven> i showed haiku to some guy at the local hackerspace last week[11:25:40] <sys2> and they got no use for it so i can get it very cheap =)[11:25:46] <farhaven> he put it in a vbox and waited for booting up[11:26:03] <farhaven> after 20 seconds he was still waiting and i was like "dude, it's done... you can use it now"[11:28:30] *** kitallis has quit IRC[11:28:46] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[11:29:50] *** nutela has quit IRC[11:30:17] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[11:34:07] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[11:35:05] <kirilla> Goood morning, Hai-ku-naam![11:36:10] <kirilla> hot builds off new cool servers![11:40:17] *** fly-away has joined #haiku[11:40:55] *** michail has quit IRC[11:41:08] *** phalax has quit IRC[11:41:53] *** phalax has joined #haiku[11:42:18] *** binaryimpulse has joined #haiku[11:43:39] *** yamokidzu-it has quit IRC[11:45:02] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[11:46:48] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[11:47:17] <PasNox> hello all[11:47:51] *** michail has joined #haiku[11:55:56] *** saivert has quit IRC[11:56:52] *** kitallis has quit IRC[11:57:09] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[11:58:41] *** kitallis has quit IRC[11:58:59] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[12:01:11] *** saivert has joined #haiku[12:04:08] <farhaven> hmm, is there some documentation about the fbsd compat layer?[12:04:27] <farhaven> i.e. a guide or something on how i rip out an fbsd driver and compile it on haiku[12:04:55] <farhaven> or better yet, does anyone have some kind of documentation for the broadcom bcm5764 chipset?[12:10:08] *** Andrius has quit IRC[12:12:44] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[12:17:31] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[12:20:20] *** SiCuTDeUx__ has joined #haiku[12:21:05] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[12:25:29] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[12:39:02] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[12:39:06] *** killermouse0 has joined #haiku[12:41:46] *** tqh has quit IRC[12:43:00] <CIA-69> korli * r34027 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/bash/bashline.c: uses B_COMMON_SETTINGS_DIRECTORY/network/hosts[12:43:37] *** Sryche has quit IRC[12:48:30] <kirilla> farhaven: good question. You might want to ask that on the haiku-development mailing-list[12:48:38] <CIA-69> korli * r34028 /haiku/vendor/bash/current/ (24 files in 6 dirs): applied patches 001-035[12:53:54] <kirilla> farhaven: there's no official documentation as far as I can tell[12:54:11] <kirilla> nothing in the Haiku book: http://factory.haiku-os.org/documentation/Haiku_Book_doxygen/html/[12:54:19] <kirilla> no blog post[12:54:35] <kirilla> and no article: http://www.haiku-os.org/articles[12:54:41] <kirilla> brb[12:57:27] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[12:59:04] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[13:00:05] <farhaven> thx :)[13:06:01] <CIA-69> korli * r34029 /haiku/vendor/bash/4.0p035/: tagging bash 4.0p035[13:07:06] <CIA-69> korli * r34030 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/bash/ (22 files in 5 dirs): merge patches 001-035[13:08:07] *** wildur has quit IRC[13:08:56] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[13:09:33] <kirilla> np, farhaven[13:10:51] <kirilla> http://www.haiku-os.org/news/2007-05-08/haiku_getting_a_freebsd_network_driver_compatibility_layer[13:11:07] <kirilla> but I think a few things have changed since then[13:12:32] <kirilla> Colin Günther might know. I think he's worked a lot with that layer lately, with his wifi work[13:14:44] <kirilla> http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/haiku-wifi[13:15:27] *** triplez has joined #haiku[13:16:26] <killermouse0> hello people[13:16:27] <farhaven> excellent, thanks a lot[13:16:51] <killermouse0> is there something like a comparison of haiku against other OSes ?[13:16:57] <kirilla> hi killermouse0[13:17:00] <killermouse0> I'd like to see the highlights[13:17:44] <killermouse0> I'm curious what draws people to haiku ? is it the look and feel ? or are there specific applications ? or is it nostalgia ?[13:17:56] <kirilla> I'm not aware of any such table of features[13:17:56] <farhaven> for me its nostalgia[13:18:02] <killermouse0> ok[13:18:05] <farhaven> i've been a beos user back in the days[13:18:18] <farhaven> so this is like visiting old friends after a long time :D[13:18:25] <killermouse0> farhaven, I can totally understand that :)[13:18:48] <killermouse0> farhaven, are you a haiku developper ?[13:18:54] <kirilla> I never stopped using BeOS, so I feel right at home in Haiku :)[13:18:56] <killermouse0> or user ?[13:19:00] <farhaven> killermouse0: user[13:19:16] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[13:19:19] <killermouse0> kirilla, what is your typical computer usage then ?[13:19:56] <kirilla> email, web browsing, making apps, listening to music[13:19:58] <killermouse0> for myself, I need basic stuff like an office suite of some sort, internet browser and few stuff really[13:19:59] <kirilla> sort of[13:20:07] <markos_> farhaven: nostalgia is good -I was an old BeOS user too :)- but there are many more reasons to use it. it's light it's blazingly fast, it's actually FUN to code for with such a clean API, and it gives most modern OSes a run for their money :)[13:20:35] <farhaven> yup, i really liked the performance when i had it running on my old k6/2[13:20:36] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[13:20:46] <farhaven> it was...[13:20:48] <farhaven> refreshing :D[13:21:01] <killermouse0> markos_, what is the language of choice ? I've started browsing the sources, seems to be plain C++, is it correct ?[13:21:17] <farhaven> yes[13:21:31] <kirilla> I like that the system is complete enough and still so easy to have an overview/understanding it.[13:21:34] <markos_> i didn't use x86 version, i had bought the ppc version -when it was promoted as a macos replacement, it actually screamed on an old 603@180Mhz :)[13:21:46] <killermouse0> :)[13:22:30] <markos_> played multiple mp3s and mpg movies on the faces of a rotating OpenGL cube, /without/ 3d accelaration... well that was a feat back then -even now :)[13:22:38] <killermouse0> markos_, the API thing, does it mean that application that are ported from other OSes won't feel as well integrated in Haiku then ?[13:22:38] <kirilla> I tried the Pre-R3 PPC versions on PowerMac and got hooked, but I couldn't use it myself until R3.[13:22:45] <markos_> that was... er '96[13:22:51] <markos_> or sth like that[13:23:00] <killermouse0> wow, long time users :D[13:23:48] <kirilla> oh yeah[13:23:53] <markos_> killermouse0: the idea is to write native apps, not port, unless it's something really important -like eg. qt/webkit or sth like that[13:24:08] <killermouse0> markos_, ok I get it[13:24:10] <markos_> and i absolutely agree on that[13:24:24] *** michail has quit IRC[13:24:28] <markos_> let's not make haiku into another linux or windows clone[13:24:42] <killermouse0> but then it seems like all other OSes have a huge head start as far as the software library is concerned[13:25:05] <killermouse0> doesn't it feel a bit like re-inventing the wheel ?[13:25:16] <markos_> they do. each has its purpose, i wouldn't use haiku to write Office docs, just as I wouldn't play games on linux as well. But![13:25:31] <killermouse0> like, say, I need an accounting software a la gnucash ?[13:25:34] <markos_> don't forget that haiku is just on alpha version[13:25:37] <kirilla> if a qt compatibility layer for Haiku is done well, and it's not too alien to how Haiku works, the apps should feel almost "native"[13:25:44] <markos_> in that case, you should use linux for now[13:26:27] <killermouse0> markos_, I see ... so Haiku is not yet a general purpose OS[13:26:43] <kirilla> qt is being worked on, it seems, but not by the Haiku project themselves currently[13:26:46] <markos_> haiku is fun to use, but unless you have minimal needs of reading mail and compliant websites -ie no flash, strange things- it's not there yet, imho[13:26:47] <killermouse0> I mean, you can't really use it as your only OS, or can you ?[13:26:55] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[13:26:58] <markos_> you can, depending on your needs[13:27:00] <killermouse0> ok :)[13:27:19] <markos_> if your #1 activity is coding haiku apps, then it's definitely usable as a main OS :)[13:27:25] <killermouse0> lol[13:27:27] <kirilla> oh yes :)[13:27:27] <killermouse0> sure :)[13:27:33] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[13:28:05] <markos_> but i wouldn't use it -yet- to view facebook or youtube games -it probably will happen, just not yet[13:29:08] <killermouse0> beZilla is a fork of mozilla, right ? what is the native web browser of haiku ?[13:29:11] <killermouse0> is there one ?[13:29:20] <killermouse0> there must be one, I guess :)[13:29:34] <kirilla> one is being created based on webkit, but it's still very early[13:29:41] <markos_> even skype will probably be available since skype will opensource the gui and one could write a native client for haiku that would link to the binary blob that handles the protocol -I hope so at least[13:30:16] <markos_> but all this will have to wait, i think the devs are way too busy with the main OS[13:30:19] <kirilla> there are a coupe of browsers, but bezilla is what truly gets the work done, for now, in Haiku[13:30:32] <killermouse0> kirilla, there wasn't one for BeOS neither ? or is there a licence problem with it or something like that ?[13:30:41] <markos_> it's not bad, it's just not terribly modern[13:30:52] <kirilla> killermouse0: beos wasn't open-source, so we can't use "NetPositive"[13:31:02] <killermouse0> ok ![13:31:03] <kirilla> that would be copyright-infringement[13:31:18] <kirilla> and NetPositive was truly basic[13:31:25] <killermouse0> I see[13:31:27] <noisetonepause> beyond basic[13:31:31] <killermouse0> :D[13:31:40] <noisetonepause> no css or javascript support[13:31:41] <noisetonepause> at all[13:31:41] <kirilla> I like(d) it though[13:31:47] <noisetonepause> at the time it was fine[13:31:51] <markos_> arora iz da shit now![13:32:01] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[13:32:07] <noisetonepause> uzbl.org is my favourite[13:32:07] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[13:32:12] <kirilla> if you infect Haiku with qt.. ;)[13:32:34] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[13:32:38] <markos_> well, uzbl is not really the avg user's choice :)[13:32:47] <CIA-69> korli * r34031 /haiku/vendor/freebsd/current/dev/bge/ (if_bge.c if_bgereg.h): update bge to current (r199267)[13:32:54] <noisetonepause> markos_: i'm not average[13:32:55] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[13:32:59] <kirilla> heh[13:33:12] <kirilla> my mom says I'm above average ;)[13:33:25] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[13:33:27] <noisetonepause> kirilla: your mom says i'm above average too[13:33:27] <kirilla> jk[13:33:35] <noisetonepause> (SMILEY!)[13:33:44] <killermouse0> what are the biggest shortcomings at the OS level right now ? I've seen people asking for stable wifi ... what else ?[13:33:44] <kirilla> *grumble* :))[13:33:46] <markos_> noisetonepause: good for you, i was referring to a normal browser :)[13:33:49] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[13:34:14] <noisetonepause> killermouse0: for me, it'd be lack of acpi sleep[13:34:19] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[13:34:25] <killermouse0> noisetonepause, ok, laptop user[13:34:27] <markos_> acpi in general[13:34:31] <noisetonepause> mm, yeah[13:35:14] <markos_> killermouse0: no 3d yet also, probably gallium3d will fix that, but that one still has a long way to go[13:36:16] <killermouse0> markos_, you mean software 3D ?[13:36:33] <markos_> no, hardware 3d support, software 3d exists[13:36:44] <CIA-69> korli * r34032 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/broadcom570x/dev/bge/ (if_bge.c if_bgereg.h): merge bge vendor (r28601-r34031)[13:36:58] *** glootech_ has joined #haiku[13:37:14] <killermouse0> ok[13:38:10] *** Silicon_Wolf has joined #haiku[13:38:13] <Hugen> markos: if for aljen had helped with at least one more programmer that we would soon gallium[13:38:26] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[13:39:13] <Hugen> markos: and so maybe the year...[13:40:18] <killermouse0> markos_, I don't understand how gallium3d would help ? isn't that a layer on top like opengl or direct3D ?[13:40:27] <Hugen> bbl[13:40:38] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[13:41:08] <markos_> well, it's way to convert opengl commands into gfx chipset commands, it's platform agnostic -more or less- so it can work in linux, haiku -and just some time ago it was demoed on AROS[13:41:15] <Hugen> gallium it's driver for hardware 3D[13:41:18] <markos_> it uses LLVM[13:41:34] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[13:41:42] <adamk_> Hugen: Not necessarily. gallium3d can use a software renderer, and that's already been ported to Haiku.[13:42:02] <Hugen> yes, of course too - softpipe[13:42:08] <killermouse0> ok[13:42:22] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[13:42:50] <markos_> Hugen, adamk: i'm curious as to how gallium3d's own softpipe compares to haiku's builtin -i take it they're not the same[13:43:10] *** MegafEee has joined #Haiku[13:43:28] <adamk_> markos_: The current one is just the normal Mesa software renderer. I honestly don't know how much it differs from the newer gallium3d one[13:43:41] <markos_> ok[13:43:52] <adamk_> My guess is that they are remarkably similar most being from the same project.[13:43:53] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[13:44:06] <Hugen> bbl[13:44:08] *** Hugen has quit IRC[13:45:02] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[13:47:57] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[13:49:52] *** yamokidzu-it has joined #haiku[13:50:30] *** demetrio has joined #haiku[13:51:47] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:51:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[13:52:24] *** michail has joined #haiku[13:53:19] *** glootech has quit IRC[13:53:56] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[13:57:47] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[13:59:43] *** Fawkes has joined #Haiku[14:03:32] *** yamokidzu-it has quit IRC[14:03:56] *** yamokidzu-it has joined #haiku[14:04:30] *** yamokidzu-it has quit IRC[14:06:58] *** demetrio has quit IRC[14:08:13] *** Megaf has joined #Haiku[14:09:27] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[14:13:25] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[14:14:57] *** Barrett has quit IRC[14:17:08] *** Fawkes has quit IRC[14:20:05] *** MegafEee has quit IRC[14:34:32] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[14:34:54] *** redblue has quit IRC[14:39:56] *** crash_ has joined #haiku[14:41:03] *** michail has quit IRC[14:42:39] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[14:42:57] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[14:43:12] *** kirilla has quit IRC[14:44:05] *** Megaf has quit IRC[14:44:31] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[14:46:19] <farhaven> can i somehow build only a small part of the haiku sourcetree?[14:46:37] <farhaven> i only need one driver specifically, and building the complete system seems a bit superflouus then[14:46:46] *** Hugen has joined #haiku[14:48:21] *** broadcast has quit IRC[14:49:28] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[14:51:42] *** MYOB has quit IRC[14:52:10] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[14:52:20] *** MYOB has quit IRC[14:53:00] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[14:53:24] *** glootech has joined #haiku[14:58:41] *** 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IRC[17:02:00] *** killermouse0 has quit IRC[17:06:49] *** killermouse0 has joined #haiku[17:07:04] *** leszek has joined #haiku[17:07:22] <leszek> hi[17:08:49] <Baivan> hi[17:09:09] <Hertta> Hi[17:14:53] *** michail has joined #haiku[17:15:22] *** MegafEee has quit IRC[17:25:05] *** adb has joined #haiku[17:25:11] *** adb_ has joined #haiku[17:26:22] *** adb_ has quit IRC[17:28:59] *** impy has joined #haiku[17:30:01] <farhaven> hmm, can i somehow list used kernel addons and force loading of a certain module?[17:36:49] *** kallisti5 has quit IRC[17:36:52] *** kallisti5 has joined #haiku[17:37:58] *** binaryimpulse has left #haiku[17:40:20] *** mmadia42 has joined #haiku[17:40:53] *** mmadia has quit IRC[17:41:12] *** yamokidzu-it has quit IRC[17:41:32] *** kallisti5 has joined #haiku[17:41:53] *** kallisti6 has joined #haiku[17:42:30] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[17:45:24] *** gtaw has quit IRC[17:48:01] *** Barrett has quit IRC[17:52:42] *** leszek has quit IRC[17:55:00] *** Xbertl 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*** nutela has quit IRC[19:27:20] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[19:28:49] <waveshaper> if there is one thing I hate about UI and I can only reference the OS I use the most, sadly Windows, is that when Im in an app and it gets an event from some other process, pops up and window, that window takes focus. why .. and why isnt that a problem ?[19:29:12] <waveshaper> I honestly could not care if there was 10000 windowses opening, just leave me typing happily in notepad pls[19:30:04] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[19:30:30] <kirilla> waveshaper: agreed[19:31:33] *** mvfranz has joined #haiku[19:32:09] <CIA-69> korli * r34038 /haiku/vendor/coreutils/current/ (312 files in 5 dirs): update coreutils to 7.6[19:33:09] *** kirilla has quit IRC[19:33:35] <waveshaper> the mouse focus thing that was used in beos I guess and is now used in haiku is great I think. but I cant say Ive notice the focus problem in haiku though..[19:33:54] <waveshaper> it might be that haiku is alot more friendly when it comes to alerts[19:34:02] <waveshaper> its just more quiet and it feels better :p[19:38:05] <mmu_man> seems the AROS Gallium3D port runs not too bad already... (Flash™ warning!)[19:39:34] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[19:41:23] <CIA-69> korli * r34039 /haiku/vendor/coreutils/current/src/ (remove.c rm.c seq.c shred.c): with patch c99-to-c89.diff[19:42:03] <CIA-69> korli * r34040 /haiku/vendor/coreutils/7.6/: tagging coreutils-7.6[19:48:58] *** mvfranz has quit IRC[19:51:28] *** Kroki has quit IRC[19:51:48] *** Kroki has joined #haiku[19:58:06] *** KalElLyon has joined #Haiku[19:58:16] <KalElLyon> Hi every one :-)[19:58:54] <KalElLyon> I've just managed to make my WiFi Atheros card to work with Haiku but I dont knwo how to select the WiFi I want to connect[19:59:35] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[20:00:53] <tqh> KalElLyon, I believe the only way atm is by the tool mentioned here: http://www.haikuware.com/blog[20:02:52] <KalElLyon> Excellent, thanks ![20:03:04] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[20:05:36] *** SiCuTDeUx__ has quit IRC[20:07:49] *** Kroki has quit IRC[20:09:06] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[20:12:03] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[20:13:03] *** xvedejas has quit IRC[20:13:14] *** xvedejas has joined #haiku[20:18:33] <CIA-69> korli * r34041 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/coreutils/ (317 files in 5 dirs): merge coreutils 7.6[20:18:57] *** pfoetche1 has quit IRC[20:20:36] *** warpdesign_zzzz has left #haiku[20:22:56] *** korli has quit IRC[20:25:09] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[20:35:28] <CIA-69> mmu_man * r34042 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/arch/ppc/arch_thread.cpp:[20:35:28] <CIA-69> Force C linkage on those two, fixes them being undefined after the .c to .cpp rename.[20:35:28] <CIA-69> Fixes part of #4965.[20:36:19] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[20:39:46] *** gobgob has quit IRC[20:40:43] *** GerbilSoft has joined #haiku[20:49:51] *** amuck has joined #haiku[20:56:29] *** redblue has quit IRC[20:59:19] *** GerbilSoft has quit IRC[20:59:59] *** thotypous has quit IRC[21:01:49] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[21:04:00] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[21:05:21] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[21:11:22] *** kitallis has quit IRC[21:11:41] *** leszek has joined #haiku[21:12:11] <leszek> re[21:20:00] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[21:28:22] *** Kroki has joined #haiku[21:32:42] *** baizas has left #haiku[21:37:12] *** kirilla has quit IRC[21:41:31] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[21:49:37] *** Hugen has quit IRC[21:57:01] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[21:59:40] *** kirilla has quit IRC[22:00:01] <CIA-69> bonefish * r34043 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/package/ (14 files in 2 dirs):[22:00:01] <CIA-69> Added support for data compression via zlib. Compression support for the TOC[22:00:01] <CIA-69> and package attributes sections is still missing, though.[22:05:45] *** expensivelesbian has joined #haiku[22:05:55] <expensivelesbian> hello[22:06:23] <expensivelesbian> had a bad install of Haiku today, which is annoying as I hoped this new machine would play nice with haiku (and vice versa)[22:06:24] <adamk> Anyone know what usb cams are supported by the usb_webcam add-on?[22:07:05] <expensivelesbian> I can install, but when booting to desktop, either through the LiveCD or a proper install, the soundcard makes a nasty noise, and then the machine restarts[22:08:56] <mmu_man> adamk only mine for now :p[22:09:14] <mmu_man> sonix based cheapo cams[22:09:19] <mmu_man> hard to find[22:09:49] <mmu_man> http://www.macally.com/EN/product/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=119 this one works, but the driver doesn't work in alpha1 yet[22:10:03] <mmu_man> I probably missed a local change to commit[22:10:24] <sys2> how will the usb webcam addon work ? ... will people be able develop 3rd party and just make an addon for it ?[22:11:25] <mmu_man> sys2 it publishes media nodes that you can use in CodyCam and other apps[22:11:48] <sys2> mmu_man, i was more thinking about adding more webcams to it[22:11:54] <sys2> support for more webcams[22:11:57] <mmu_man> it's modular, so you can add code to support other brands. It has support for loading external addons, but it's not enabled atm[22:12:19] <mmu_man> it'd probably result in loading dozens of addons in what is already an addon so...[22:12:30] <sys2> ye was that i was thinking .. cause if say a company would like to develop a driver for it and not open the source, there has to be addon support :)[22:12:52] <mmu_man> see http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/media-add-ons/usb_webcam[22:13:09] <mmu_man> well the code to load addons is here, just not used[22:13:21] <sys2> ok =)[22:13:36] <adamk> Heh...[22:13:39] <adamk> Alright, thanks :-)[22:14:17] <mmu_man> see http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/media-add-ons/usb_webcam/CamRoster.cpp#L147[22:15:26] <mmu_man> hmm actually I think I forgot to pass the symbol name as string here :)[22:17:26] <DraX> yes i'm sure companies are jumping to develop drivers for haiku :P[22:23:21] <sys2> DraX, ofc =)[22:23:33] <sys2> DraX, atleast we have to give them the choice[22:23:59] <DraX> i mean in this case i think it's fine because it's already supported[22:24:00] <sys2> not making webcam addons loadable and have to be in the source of the usb_webcam thin gwould force them to release code == no interest at all from most[22:24:12] <sys2> DraX, ofc if its supported[22:24:20] <sys2> but new webcams and chips for them come all the time[22:24:31] <DraX> i mean doing addons for drivers is supported[22:24:34] <mmu_man> sys2 well it does't mean vendors can't release myfoobar_webcam.media_addon to support theirs[22:25:05] <sys2> mmu_man, aye but then they have to write the full media addon dont tey? :)[22:25:17] <sys2> alot cheaper to just implement the actual driver =)[22:25:39] <DraX> not really they can copy the current one[22:25:43] <DraX> and just implement their driver[22:25:51] <sys2> DraX, ahh true :)[22:25:55] <sys2> as its MIT/BSD[22:26:02] <sys2> didnt think of that =)[22:26:17] <DraX> but for all intents and purposes they don't exist[22:26:28] <DraX> so we should be concerned with what makes it easier for us to implement usb webcam drivers[22:26:34] <DraX> and not what makes it easier for them to do so[22:26:42] <sys2> ye true :)[22:26:52] <sys2> and i think addons for the media_addon is the easiest way? :)[22:27:43] <DraX> can those addons have addons too?[22:27:47] <DraX> exponential addons![22:32:53] <sys2> addons are a thing that makes beos/haiku so beautifull imo :)[22:33:04] <sys2> so simple to add support for everything to all apps that uses it :P[22:38:05] <expensivelesbian> hi, if my PC is rebooting on Haiku install/boot, who should I tell? How should I tell it?[22:38:19] <expensivelesbian> "loud and proud", obviously[22:41:03] <CIA-69> kirilla * r34044 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/tracker/zipomatic/ (12 files): (log message trimmed)[22:41:03] <CIA-69> Work in progress: Tiling window placement, screen-center-preferring with[22:41:03] <CIA-69> semi-fixed slots. Not sure I like it. (It looks nice as long as the windows stay[22:41:03] <CIA-69> equally sized, which they don't.) Settings weren't used anymore, and could be[22:41:03] <CIA-69> removed. Clean-ups. Changed archive creation to not update an existing archive,[22:41:05] <CIA-69> but instead create a new archive with a slightly altered filename along-side the[22:41:07] <CIA-69> existing file. Lock added to safe-guard pipe redirection. A window's[22:49:55] <umccullough> file ticket, complete with serial debug output if possible[22:50:18] <umccullough> spontaneous reboot usually means a triple-fault[22:52:16] <CIA-69> korli * r34045 /haiku/vendor/wget/current/ (474 files in 14 dirs): update wget to 1.12.0[22:53:04] *** CapitanPicoZ has joined #haiku[22:54:46] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[22:56:46] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[22:57:45] <CIA-69> korli * r34046 /haiku/vendor/wget/1.12.0/: tagging wget 1.12.0[23:05:22][23:05:27] <CapitanPicoZ> :S[23:06:09] <mmadia42> what sentence is it used in?[23:06:29] <kirilla> Deskbar handle?[23:06:36] <CapitanPicoZ> yes[23:06:41] <kirilla> grip area[23:06:53] <kirilla> it's a texture for extra friction[23:07:04] <kirilla> little knobs[23:07:07] <kirilla> bumps[23:07:31] <CapitanPicoZ> ok, thanks :)[23:07:34] <kirilla> or the reverse of bumps[23:07:45] <CapitanPicoZ> thanks[23:07:48] <kirilla> np :)[23:08:56] *** tqh has quit IRC[23:10:42] *** KalElLyon has quit IRC[23:10:59][23:12:17] <CapitanPicoZ> ah, I got it: Zona resaltada better ;)[23:12:34] <kirilla> perhaps you could say "movement handle" or something, in Spanish of course[23:13:00] <kirilla> grip strip[23:13:49] <kirilla> movas la Deskbar por el grip strip :}[23:14:19] <CapitanPicoZ> hehe :) you mean: "mueves" ;)[23:14:33] <kirilla> mueves .. con .. algo algo[23:15:17] *** killermouse0 has quit IRC[23:15:24] <CapitanPicoZ> yes[23:21:51] *** monsoon has joined #haiku[23:23:15] *** expensivelesbian has quit IRC[23:26:24] <CapitanPicoZ> well, bye and thanks for your help ;)[23:26:44] <CapitanPicoZ> well, bye and thank you for you help :)[23:26:58] <CapitanPicoZ> ups, sorry :)[23:27:12] <CapitanPicoZ> I lost the channel ;)[23:27:41] <CapitanPicoZ> bye anyway[23:27:48] *** CapitanPicoZ has left #haiku[23:29:00] *** The123king has quit IRC[23:31:11] <kirilla> :)[23:32:33] *** redblue has joined #haiku[23:36:44] <CIA-69> dlmcpaul * r34047 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/plugins/ffmpeg/gfx_conv_mmx.cpp: ensure buffers are aligned 32 for SSE2 should fix #4948[23:39:10] *** phalax has quit IRC[23:40:30] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[23:44:20] *** dflemstr has joined #haiku[23:46:06] *** dflemstr_ has joined #haiku[23:46:15] *** dflemstr_ has quit IRC[23:46:45] *** dflemstr_ has joined #haiku[23:49:46] *** pARAd0X85 has joined #haiku[23:49:53] <pARAd0X85> hi[23:50:12] <pARAd0X85> I have a question about the port of Qt to Haiku[23:50:42] <pARAd0X85> I heard someone recently ported Qt to Haiku, I want to know how he has did that[23:51:00] <kirilla> dunno :)[23:51:04] <DraX> the source is available[23:51:14] <kirilla> took the source, added stuff, presto :)[23:51:29] *** crash_ has quit IRC[23:51:43] <kirilla> Is it hosted on OsDrawer?[23:51:45] <DraX> http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/qt-beos[23:52:38] <kirilla> http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/qt-beos/repository/show/trunk[23:52:41] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[23:53:08] <pARAd0X85> I mean, when you have the source, which part in code you should modify[23:53:17] <pARAd0X85> and how to proceed ?[23:53:25] <pARAd0X85> port class by class ?[23:54:02] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[23:54:40] <pARAd0X85> which parts we should modify first[23:54:57] <DraX> *shrug*[23:55:04] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[23:55:15] <kirilla> Some classes don't need to be ported.. Others need to be ported..[23:55:27] <kirilla> it all depends[23:55:53] <sys2> pARAd0X85, i would go with implementing a stub class of all the classes needed to be implemented[23:56:11] <sys2> print out the name of the funciton, and run apps from console to see whats getting called and implement them in that order =)[23:56:24] <sys2> so i can get one app running, then moving on to the next to see if that prints something[23:57:04] <pARAd0X85> kirilla, data access classes seems to be used as they are. But for QGraphicsView, how have you done ?[23:57:06] <kirilla> It's probably a set of libraries, and you probably don't need to do all of them in a single step[23:57:14] *** joshc has quit IRC[23:57:28] *** joshc has joined #haiku[23:57:35] <kirilla> no idea, haven't looked at it[23:58:01] *** monsoon has quit IRC[23:59:50] *** tombhad-AC has joined #haiku