November 13, 2009 
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November 13, 2009 [00:02:00] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[00:02:18] <MYOB> Captain_Pike FireFTP in bezilla used to work well, not tried it in some time...[00:02:48] <MYOB> theres also NetPenguin and that ancient Beatware FTP app around if you're using gcc2 or gcc4hybrid[00:02:52] <Captain_Pike> "Compose" button, then attached a small text file to the email message, then "send" button. It displayed "sending" for several minutes until I gave up. It now occurs to me that I have not tried to send an email message without attachments either.[00:03:21] <Captain_Pike> The good news is that I was able to paste my text into Google Docs, and successfully save.[00:04:00] <mmadia> hrmm.. try "Save Now" before sending.[00:04:08] <Captain_Pike> Ok, will try now.[00:04:37] *** joshc has quit IRC[00:05:39] <Captain_Pike> mmadia, sending an email without attachments works. (By hitting normal "send" button. Will now try "save now" with small attachment)[00:07:18] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[00:07:37] <Captain_Pike> "save now" worked just fine. File is retievable in other OS via Gmail :)[00:08:15] <Captain_Pike> "retrievable". Cool, a new way to tranfer files via VM.[00:09:09] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[00:10:05] *** tombhad-AC has joined #haiku[00:10:23] *** The123king has quit IRC[00:10:58] *** crash_ has joined #haiku[00:11:36] *** sIRC has joined #haiku[00:13:03] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[00:17:26] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[00:21:14] *** ccosta has joined #haiku[00:21:43] *** luroh has quit IRC[00:24:01] *** NathanP has joined #Haiku[00:24:35] <NathanP> I just noticed that I have a Creative SoundBlaster on this machine.[00:25:58] <NathanP> TIme to hook up a second cable cord for TV on the PC now. :)[00:27:45] *** ccosta has quit IRC[00:29:44] <NathanP> Back, with very long TV cables.[00:30:48] *** Sryche has quit IRC[00:31:21] *** mortuosplango has quit IRC[00:31:42] *** mortuosplango has joined #haiku[00:32:14] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[00:33:57] <MrSunshine_> hmm, strange. . got a pc that my gf had before, its kinda a desktop pc with the monitor and the computer built together[00:34:18] *** xvedejas_ has joined #haiku[00:34:29] *** xvedejas has quit IRC[00:35:03] <MrSunshine_> when trying to boot haiku i get to the boot menu, then if i just continue i just get a test picture on screen, if i take debug output i get the full text output then nothing, if i take safe video mode, then i get the test picture, if i go to select safe video mode, i only have "Standard VGA" in the list, no resolutions ... and selecting that just gives me a test picture[00:35:14] <MrSunshine_> it has a Intel 82815 Graphics card[00:35:18] *** Fawkes has joined #haiku[00:35:27] *** adb has quit IRC[00:35:58] <kirilla> I wonder if that one is supported.[00:36:24] <MrSunshine_> should be in VESA mode right ?[00:36:32] <MrSunshine_> but as it doesnt even show vesa stuffs :/[00:36:32] <kirilla> if you can somehow access the partition from elsewhere, try removing all files named intel_extreme[00:36:49] <MrSunshine_> kirilla, that shouldnt be loaded when i select safe graphics mode[00:36:49] *** adb has joined #haiku[00:36:58] <kirilla> if the driver gets it wrong with the 815, I mean[00:37:02] <kirilla> I guess not[00:37:31] <MrSunshine_> http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/colour_band_boot[00:37:33] <MrSunshine_> same problem :P[00:38:02] <MrSunshine_> but no solution there[00:38:15] <MrSunshine_> just says to select failsafe graphics mode, and i have none in the list![00:38:43] <kirilla> well, I'm stumped :/[00:40:48] <MrSunshine_> hmm, how does haiku draw th eVESA stuff?[00:40:50] <MrSunshine_> linear or banking +[00:41:01][00:41:20] <kirilla> that sounds familiar[00:41:30] <CIA-69> korli * r34015 /haiku/trunk/headers/posix/termios.h: added some definitions in termios.h[00:41:58] *** MYOB has quit IRC[00:44:05] <CIA-69> korli * r34016 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/bash/ (383 files in 13 dirs): merge bash-4.0 to trunk. kept most haiku stuff.[00:44:13] *** kallisti5 is now known as kallisti5-awy[00:47:00] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[00:49:04] *** E-WolfShade has joined #haiku[00:50:30] *** Geoz has quit IRC[00:51:00] *** ccosta has joined #haiku[00:51:17] *** Geoz has joined #haiku[00:52:14] <NathanP> We now have TV on the PC.[00:53:12] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[00:53:52] *** kaoron has quit IRC[00:53:52] <Fawkes> Is is possible to use a BeOS R5 orinoco driver with Haiku?[00:54:16] <E-WolfShade> Which reminds me, how's wifi support coming in Haiku?[00:54:22] <mmu_man> Fawkes not if it uses a net_server addon to configure itself[00:54:29] <NathanP> No sound, though.[00:54:31] <NathanP> I am saddened.[00:54:37] <mmu_man> tried OSS ?[00:54:45] <Fawkes> mmu_man: Could the Bone driver work?[00:55:10] <NathanP> It's ZevenOS 2.0.[00:55:17] <NathanP> Got TV tuner working, just no sound.[00:55:18] <Fawkes> Oh. Wait. Addon - as in some kind of GUI?[00:55:26] <Fawkes> I think it uses a text file.[00:55:28] <NathanP> Been having to configure sound allot. Only issue in this release so far.[00:55:33] *** korli has joined #haiku[00:55:34] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[00:56:03] <Fawkes> Actually... a second though strikes. I don't think it supported WEP.[00:56:35] <mmu_man> Fawkes it might yes[00:58:24] <Fawkes> I'll give it a try then over the weekend.[00:59:21] <Fawkes> Hopefully my machine will take to Haiku better than it did BeOS. No idea why, it would just hang seconds after getting to the desktop (and complaining that it didn't have a driver for the graphics card)[00:59:31] *** aldeck has quit IRC[01:00:01] <Fawkes> (Although I could have sworn I had BeOS running on it sometime prior to that)[01:00:21] <mmu_man> MrSunshine_ don't you at least have a PCI video card around to replace it until it works ?[01:00:52] <mmu_man> Fawkes yes the wifi stack only works on open APs for now[01:01:34] <MrSunshine_> mmu_man, its a laptop/stationary computer[01:01:36] <MrSunshine_> built in stuffs[01:01:48] <MrSunshine_> some kind of stupid hybrid[01:02:02] <Fawkes> I'm sure I can sort something out. Either set up a new AP, or temporarily disable WEP on my eixsting one.[01:02:32] <MrSunshine_> with a bigger monitor then a laptop and a foot that contains the computer parts and then ordenary holes for keyboard, mouse etc at the sides[01:03:03] <mmu_man> eeeBox alike ?[01:03:09] <MrSunshine_> dunno[01:03:17] <Fawkes> Sounds like our "All-in-Ones" we have at work.[01:03:23] <MrSunshine_> its something my gf dragged with her when she moved in[01:03:23] *** mortuosplango has quit IRC[01:03:51] <MrSunshine_> mmu_man, its all in one shell tho ... the monitor is a bit tiltable but its stuck on top of the foot[01:05:05] <MrSunshine_> http://hallyutech.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/celrun_lluon_a1_all_in_one_pc.jpg ye something like that but much older[01:05:11] <E-WolfShade> mmu_man: How's wifi (and wifi drivers) support coming?[01:05:36] <NathanP> Blargh.[01:05:37] *** korli has quit IRC[01:05:41] <NathanP> This be driving me batty.[01:06:14] <E-WolfShade> MrSunshine_: That looks pretty cool[01:06:24] <MrSunshine_> E-WolfShade, tha one does but not mine :P[01:06:29] <MrSunshine_> as i said .. much much older :P[01:06:39] <MrSunshine_> celeron 1ghz, 128mb ram (i know ram needs upgrade)[01:06:45] *** amuck_ has quit IRC[01:06:52] <mmu_man> MrSunshine_ ah lol, looks like they retrofitted a laptop mobo :)[01:07:03] <MrSunshine_> mmadia, aye[01:07:04] *** Fawkes has quit IRC[01:07:10] <mmadia> aye[01:07:12] <E-WolfShade> <TAB> fail @ MrSunshine_[01:07:28] <Captain_Pike> Does anyone know of a Haiku wifi-supported ExpressCard? My laptop has no CardBus slot. Only ExpressCard.[01:07:32] <MrSunshine_> so no just "update" the graphics card[01:07:53] <CIA-69> korli * r34017 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/bash/pathnames.h: forgot this file[01:07:54] <mmu_man> Captain_Pike actually i think it's cardbus that might not be supported[01:07:58] <mmu_man> not sure though[01:08:12] *** adamk has quit IRC[01:08:57] <Captain_Pike> I guess I could theoretically open the laptop and install a mini pci-express card.[01:09:07] *** fly-away has quit IRC[01:09:26] *** tuna__ has joined #haiku[01:09:27] <E-WolfShade> Haiku needs support for the Atheros and ZD1211(B) chipsets for wifi, seeing as they're the most common afaik[01:09:39] *** korli has joined #haiku[01:09:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[01:10:22] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[01:11:47] *** PathagenX has quit IRC[01:12:39] <mmu_man> E-WolfShade there is an atheros driver already, ported from freebsd[01:12:46] <E-WolfShade> I know[01:13:02] <E-WolfShade> I have three machines running on wifi, two desktops and a laptop[01:13:10] <E-WolfShade> They each have common chipsets[01:13:25] <E-WolfShade> Atheros, ZD1211(B), and Broadcom[01:13:53] <E-WolfShade> Broadcom may be tricky to support =P, but ZD1211(B) might just need a FreeBSD driver port[01:16:41] <tuna__> i've never even seen a zydas chip here in north america[01:16:44] <tuna__> europe yes[01:16:52] <E-WolfShade> lol[01:16:58] * E-WolfShade lives in the US and has one[01:17:07] <tuna__> you unfortunate bugger[01:17:08] <tuna__> haha :)[01:17:10] <tuna__> j/k[01:17:19] <E-WolfShade> 2Wire adapter using the ZD1211(B) chipset that I got from AT&T[01:17:42] <E-WolfShade> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0ace:1215 ZyDAS WLA-54L WiFi[01:17:58] <tuna__> openbsd has zydas support[01:18:11] <E-WolfShade> All the BSDs do afaik[01:18:12] <tuna__> so even if freebsd doesn't shouldn't be too hard to put into haiku[01:18:18] <tuna__> there you go[01:18:28] <tuna__> it will get done... apparently.[01:18:53] <E-WolfShade> FreeBSD and NetBSD I KNOW have the driver, OpenBSD I didn't know but apparently you do[01:19:09] <tuna__> yah its zyd(4) in their man pages[01:19:11] <tuna__> I thin[01:19:12] <tuna__> k[01:19:36] <E-WolfShade> The Broadcom adapter in my old laptop is a 2Wire one from AT&T too[01:19:45] <E-WolfShade> IBM Thinkpad 600E from 1999 ^^[01:20:08] <tuna__> you need to get the model[01:20:15] <tuna__> #[01:20:39] <E-WolfShade> It's upstairs in my bro's room, I don't feel like getting up =P[01:21:13] <E-WolfShade> It's got a P2 360MHz, 280MB RAM, and a 12GB HDD (actually a little under 11GB)[01:21:31] <tuna__> good little haiku machine[01:21:37] <E-WolfShade> Yup[01:21:39] <tuna__> these things will get done[01:21:44] *** wildur has quit IRC[01:21:48] <tuna__> but until then you might have to buy some adapters that already work[01:22:28] <E-WolfShade> Nah, gonna make a minimal install of Debian on it until Haiku supports Broadcom, or until ReactOS hits 1.0.0[01:22:39] <E-WolfShade> Which will happen... never, lol[01:23:03] <tuna__> try damn small linux[01:23:08] <tuna__> will run faster than debian[01:23:12] *** gtaw has joined #haiku[01:23:32] <E-WolfShade> Hell no, kernel 2.4 ftl[01:23:46] <E-WolfShade> I need a new-ish kernel for the b43 driver[01:24:16] <E-WolfShade> I'm actually waiting for TinyMe 2009[01:25:04] *** lstarnes has quit IRC[01:25:28] *** crash_ has quit IRC[01:28:01] *** joeyadams has joined #haiku[01:28:19] *** SuPeRhOmEm has quit IRC[01:29:04] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[01:33:43] <tuna__> never heard of TinyME[01:34:10] <NathanP> Blargh, what was the command I needed to switch to Alsa.[01:34:20] <E-WolfShade> tuna__: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=tinyme[01:34:51] <E-WolfShade> Minimal PCLinuxOS-based distro[01:35:13] <tuna__> yuh i see that[01:35:16] <tuna__> try the alpha version[01:35:34] <NathanP> Try ZevenOS.[01:35:41] <E-WolfShade> meh, I'll wait for the Stable release, I've got time[01:35:46] *** korli has quit IRC[01:35:46] <NathanP> Very nice and fast, albeit the sound is being an ass.[01:35:54] <E-WolfShade> NathanP: I will never use anything Ubuntu-based again...[01:36:08] <NathanP> It's technically Xubuntu-based. :p[01:36:17] * E-WolfShade wants a rolling release distro with up-to-date packages yet stability[01:36:24] <E-WolfShade> Which is why I want Debian Testing[01:36:31] <NathanP> Well, ZevenOS is fairly stable from what I've seen.[01:36:42] <NathanP> I'm just going to gut the hell out of it and replace some things with what I prefer.[01:36:50] <NathanP> :p[01:37:15] <E-WolfShade> NathanP: My major point there was for a rolling-release distro...[01:37:27] <NathanP> What's a rolling-release distro?[01:37:42] <E-WolfShade> It means you don't have to upgrade every six months =P[01:38:05] <NathanP> Where's the fun in that?[01:38:14] * NathanP says, looking at his Arch Linux box.[01:38:24] <E-WolfShade> NathanP: Arch is a rolling release distro...[01:38:30] <NathanP> It is!?[01:38:35] <E-WolfShade> Duh...[01:38:40] <NathanP> I had no idea![01:38:57] <E-WolfShade> If I install an Arch ISO from 2007, it will work fine with packages from 2009[01:39:04] <E-WolfShade> NathanP: Are you trolling?[01:39:20] <NathanP> No, not really.[01:39:25] <NathanP> Though I don't suggest using 2007 ISO.[01:39:33] *** kirilla has quit IRC[01:41:26] <NathanP> I hate PulseAudio.[01:41:31] <NathanP> With a blind passion.[01:42:13] <E-WolfShade> The latest version is supposed to be quite good if you bother to configure it[01:42:28] * E-WolfShade wouldn't know from experience, as he uses OSS[01:42:32] <NathanP> I have.[01:42:35] <NathanP> I prefer ALSA, still.[01:42:46] <E-WolfShade> I prefer OSS over ALSA[01:42:52] <E-WolfShade> Seems to work better for games[01:43:10] <NathanP> Here's Synaptic currently completely removing PulseAudio.[01:43:13] <NathanP> Good riddence.[01:43:40] *** triplez has quit IRC[01:45:03] <NathanP> One thing I do like about Debian/Ubuntu: Apt.[01:46:01] <E-WolfShade> I'm personally found of the way BeOS/Haiku and OS X handle software installs[01:46:18] <NathanP> AKA: Drag and drop folders?[01:47:09] <E-WolfShade> Yup[01:48:14] <tuna__> GUI package systems are necessary to get people to try your OS[01:49:08] <E-WolfShade> Drag and drop + "Installed programs" list for removing software = awesome[01:51:48] *** lstarnes has joined #haiku[01:52:34] *** fengshaun_ has joined #haiku[01:52:51] <fengshaun_> how can I set launchbox to open every time I boot?[01:58:18] *** NathanP has quit IRC[02:00:34] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[02:02:42] *** mvfranz has joined #haiku[02:03:03] *** tuna__ has quit IRC[02:05:07] *** GonoszTopi has quit IRC[02:06:28] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[02:08:53] *** Barrett has quit IRC[02:10:32] *** gobgob has quit IRC[02:10:37] *** oco has quit IRC[02:12:32] *** fengshaun_ has quit IRC[02:14:36] *** Irfan9727 has joined #haiku[02:15:05] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[02:16:45] *** Irfan9727 has quit IRC[02:16:49] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku[02:20:57] *** js has quit 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cd in the INSTALL section.[04:38:16] *** haiku has quit IRC[04:45:46] *** fengshaun_ has joined #haiku[04:55:27] *** lstarnes has quit IRC[05:02:41] *** fengshaun_ has quit IRC[05:02:43] *** triplez has quit IRC[05:04:33] *** adb has joined #haiku[05:21:27] *** adb has quit IRC[05:31:28] *** gtaw has quit IRC[05:32:31] *** gtaw has joined #haiku[05:34:40] <CIA-69> scottmc * r484 /haikuports/trunk/sys-devel/gettext/ (patches gettext-0.17.bep patches/gettext-0.17.patch): Initial .bep files for gettext.[05:37:33] *** redblue has quit IRC[05:39:43] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[05:51:26] *** kwag has quit IRC[05:58:43] *** kokito has left #haiku[06:16:42] *** triplez has joined #haiku[06:16:52] *** mvfranz has quit IRC[06:20:00] *** Sryche_ has quit IRC[06:20:36] *** prOSy has joined #haiku[06:21:21] *** gwenael has quit IRC[06:26:44] *** gwenael has joined #haiku[06:27:00] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[06:31:34] *** mmadia has quit IRC[06:32:37] *** yann64 has joined #haiku[06:33:04] *** yann64 has left #haiku[06:37:40] *** HaikuBot has joined #haiku[06:45:15] *** gtaw has quit IRC[06:48:29] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[06:52:45] *** triplez has quit IRC[07:12:02] *** skarmiglione has joined #haiku[07:19:35] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[07:20:08] *** mmadia has quit IRC[07:21:31] *** prOSy has quit IRC[07:23:52] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[07:24:34] *** joeyadams has quit IRC[07:27:13] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[07:37:38] *** miqlas has quit IRC[07:38:13] <CIA-69> scottmc * r485 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/ (flac sdl-mixer/sdl-mixer-1.2.10.bep flac/flac-1.2.1.bep): Initial .bep file for flac, and new .bep file to cover new sdl-mixer release 1.2.10[07:39:45] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[07:43:02] *** fhein has joined #haiku[07:51:27] *** glootech has quit IRC[08:03:13] *** nutela has joined #haiku[08:03:36] *** Geoz has quit IRC[08:04:25] *** nutela has quit IRC[08:06:08] *** nutela has joined #haiku[08:13:06] *** DDevine has joined #haiku[08:16:46] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[08:19:08] <CIA-69> scottmc * r486 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/sdl-image/sdl-image-1.2.9.bep: New .bep file for new release of sdl-image now at 1.2.9[08:21:51] *** redblue has joined #haiku[08:27:26] *** nutela has quit IRC[08:27:31] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[08:36:37] *** glootech has joined #haiku[08:44:16] *** joshc has joined #haiku[09:00:50] *** DDevine has quit IRC[09:01:36] *** glootech has quit IRC[09:02:38] *** DDevine has joined #haiku[09:04:56] *** DDevine has quit IRC[09:05:47] *** DDevine has joined #haiku[09:20:11] *** henrym has joined #haiku[09:26:14] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[09:31:29] *** fhein has quit IRC[09:44:36] *** nutela has joined #haiku[09:52:50] *** knottnhupfer has quit IRC[09:54:44] *** henrym has quit IRC[09:55:01] *** henrym has joined #haiku[10:00:36] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[10:01:16] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[10:06:56] *** gwenael has quit IRC[10:11:58] *** gwenael has joined #haiku[10:15:21] *** triplez has joined #haiku[10:18:14] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[10:23:50] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[10:28:29] *** nutela has quit IRC[10:44:03] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[10:48:21] *** nutela has joined #haiku[10:52:36] *** skarmiglione has quit IRC[10:59:15] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[11:00:57] *** nutela has quit IRC[11:01:30] *** binaryimpulse has quit IRC[11:13:05] *** markos_ has quit IRC[11:15:00] *** Logic has joined #haiku[11:22:59] *** HaikuBot is now known as RISC[11:23:09] *** RISC is now known as HaikuBot[11:25:44] <m0ns0on> Yohooo![11:25:44] <m0ns0on> =)[11:27:01] *** nutela has joined #haiku[11:29:57] <OmniMancer> yes?[11:33:06] *** triplez has quit IRC[11:36:42] *** fly-away has joined #haiku[11:38:37] *** fly-away has quit IRC[11:38:54] *** fly-away has joined #haiku[11:41:32] <DDevine> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/11/qualcomm-hopes-snapdragon-smartbooks-take-bite-out-of-atom.ars[11:41:39] <DDevine> Bring on the ARM netbooks![11:41:59] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[11:41:59] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[11:42:04] <surrounder> nice![11:47:08] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[11:55:56] *** nutela has quit IRC[11:59:01] <warpdesign_zzzz> arm is for mobile..[12:00:10] <DDevine> warpdesign_zzzz: Not anymore.[12:00:20] <warpdesign_zzzz> oh yes still...[12:00:21] <DDevine> Well, still for mobile devices yes.[12:00:39] <DDevine> But they have evolved beyound that.[12:00:54] <DDevine> Take the ARM Cortex A9 CPUs for example/[12:02:31] <DDevine> You can keep your nasty x86 netbooks. Give me an ARM netbook anyday.[12:02:33] *** adamk has joined #haiku[12:02:43] <OmniMancer> will you port everything?[12:02:56] <DDevine> I wish, but there currently is enough to keep my happy.[12:02:58] * JonathanThompson re-ports OmniMancer[12:03:22] <JonathanThompson> OmniMancer: did you see bash 4.0 has been added to the Haiku repository?[12:03:54] <OmniMancer> has it?[12:04:05] <OmniMancer> is it included in any of the latest nightlies?[12:04:13] <JonathanThompson> I saw it go by in commit messages in the last 12 hours or so.[12:04:20] <OmniMancer> I would like to see how many tests llvm passes...[12:04:22] <JonathanThompson> Unless I misinterpreted things.[12:05:00] <OmniMancer> okay[12:05:19] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[12:06:12] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[12:06:16] *** wildur has quit IRC[12:11:38] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[12:14:19] *** fhein has joined #haiku[12:17:17] *** nutela has joined #haiku[12:18:09] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[12:18:12] *** crash_ has joined #haiku[12:27:32] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[12:29:03] *** redblue has quit IRC[12:32:30] *** triplez has joined #haiku[12:33:17] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[12:34:55] *** lharc has quit IRC[12:45:13] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[12:45:13] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[12:47:25] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[12:52:36] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[12:52:48] *** triplez has quit IRC[12:57:40] *** nutela has quit IRC[13:05:46] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[13:06:28] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[13:08:03] *** glootech has joined #haiku[13:18:04] *** nutela has joined #haiku[13:19:35] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[13:23:26] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[13:23:26] *** raichoo has quit IRC[13:27:48] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[13:33:23] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[13:34:38] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[13:36:09] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:36:10] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[13:38:43] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[13:39:32] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[13:39:49] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[13:39:55] *** DDevine has quit IRC[13:48:12] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[13:49:45] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[13:50:09] *** thotypous has quit IRC[13:53:06] *** ghane_ is now known as ghane[13:56:02] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[13:56:04] *** Matias has joined #haiku[13:56:08] *** nutela has quit IRC[13:57:48] *** hoelzro has joined #haiku[13:59:07] *** Matias has quit IRC[13:59:13] *** thotypous has quit IRC[13:59:29] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[14:07:18] *** fran has joined #haiku[14:15:17] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[14:18:20] *** nutela has joined #haiku[14:19:01] *** axeld has joined #haiku[14:19:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[14:21:25] <axeld> Does anyone have a good method on how to reproduce #4917? It annoyed me once to often today, but since then, I failed to reproduce it.[14:21:36] <axeld> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/4917[14:28:46] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[14:30:55] *** axeld has quit IRC[14:31:13] *** axeld has joined #haiku[14:31:14] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[14:32:27] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[14:36:56] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[14:37:20] <CIA-69> bonefish * r34018 /haiku/trunk/ (30 files in 3 dirs):[14:37:20] <CIA-69> Implemented a tool ("package") that implements creation and extraction of[14:37:20] <CIA-69> packages of the newly invented Haiku Package format[14:37:20] <CIA-69> (http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/PackageFormat). It basically works, but it's[14:37:20] <CIA-69> still work in progress (e.g. compression is not implemented yet), as is the[14:37:21] <CIA-69> format itself.[14:39:46] *** smokeybandit has left #haiku[14:41:57] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[14:43:43] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[14:44:19] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[14:45:56] <CIA-69> jackburton * r34019 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/AppearPrefView.cpp: Added a check which makes WebDings fail the IsFontUsable() check.[14:47:42] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[14:49:04] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[14:49:35] <MrSunshine_> oh a package format for haiku ? :)[14:50:05] *** thotypous has quit IRC[14:50:38] <MrSunshine_> will that be able to install and uninstall like the pkgs for BeOS? :)[14:51:17] <MrSunshine_> might be up to the reader of the package tho :P[14:51:32] <MrSunshine_> just read the package, check the files and remove them as they are stated in the package i guess[14:52:38] *** nutela has quit IRC[14:53:03] *** idefix_dommel has joined #haiku[14:54:19] *** dru_ has joined #haiku[14:57:58] <CIA-69> jackburton * r34020 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/AppearPrefView.cpp: Added TODO comment, removed leftover.[15:00:08] *** triplez has joined #haiku[15:01:18] *** idefix_dommel has left #haiku[15:13:42] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[15:13:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[15:14:14] *** knottnhupfer has joined #haiku[15:17:42] *** nutela has joined #haiku[15:20:46] *** broadcast has joined #haiku[15:22:05] *** prOSy has joined #haiku[15:22:37] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[15:23:27] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[15:28:38] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[15:29:45] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[15:31:59] *** gwenael has quit IRC[15:33:07] *** binaryimpulse has joined #haiku[15:39:01] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[15:44:13] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[15:47:51] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[15:53:26] *** broadcast has quit IRC[15:55:56] <CIA-69> axeld * r34021 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/powerstatus/PowerStatusView.cpp: * charging/discharging text was mixed up.[15:56:26] *** sprma_ has joined #haiku[15:57:14] *** m0ns0on has quit IRC[15:58:05] *** nutela has quit IRC[16:04:13] *** sprma has quit IRC[16:04:13] *** sprma_ is now known as sprma[16:05:37] *** thotypous has quit IRC[16:06:32] *** leszek has joined #haiku[16:06:54] <leszek> hi[16:07:09] *** gwenael has joined #haiku[16:07:59] *** axeld has quit IRC[16:15:49] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[16:16:53] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[16:17:14] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[16:17:26] *** gwenael has quit IRC[16:17:59] *** nutela has joined #haiku[16:28:39] *** skarmiglione has joined #haiku[16:29:00] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[16:31:00] <CIA-69> axeld * r34022 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/powerstatus/PowerStatusView.cpp:[16:31:00] <CIA-69> * Now it should work correctly, but apparently, the battery info is not updated[16:31:00] <CIA-69> in the way it should be.[16:34:19] *** nutela has quit IRC[16:35:26] *** ukev has quit IRC[16:35:57] *** axeld has joined #haiku[16:35:58] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[16:39:00] *** idefix_dommel has joined #haiku[16:44:19] *** idefix_dommel has left #haiku[16:53:28] *** gtaw has joined #haiku[16:54:13] *** ari-free has quit IRC[16:55:07] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[17:00:39] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[17:01:03] *** dflemstr has joined #haiku[17:05:29] *** prOSy has quit IRC[17:05:41] *** JimiDini has joined #haiku[17:10:40] *** ari-free has joined #haiku[17:14:09] *** skarmiglione has left #haiku[17:14:23] <CIA-69> scottmc * r487 /haikuporter/trunk/haikuporter:[17:14:23] <CIA-69> Updating haikuporter to 0.40 based on HaikuBot's patch and some minor tweaking.[17:14:23] <CIA-69> This version adds DISTRO creation, that is automatically building the package[17:14:23] <CIA-69> and then zipping up the resulting binary. New command lines options are added[17:14:23] <CIA-69> in this version so be sure to run haikuporter -h to see what's changed.[17:20:57] *** adamk has quit IRC[17:23:37] *** miqlas has quit IRC[17:23:43] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[17:24:00] <GeneralMaximus> hi :)[17:25:45] *** adamk has joined #haiku[17:34:40] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[17:35:17] *** kallisti5-awy is now known as kallisti5[17:35:37] *** helf has quit IRC[17:37:48] <CIA-69> axeld * r34023 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/ListView.cpp:[17:37:51] <CIA-69> * Disabled calling _FontChanged() on SetFont() - since any item can temporarily[17:37:53] <CIA-69> change the font in its DrawItem() method, this is not the way to go.[17:37:57] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[17:37:58] *** adb has joined #haiku[17:38:15] <gtaw> I think axeld works for the Matrix...[17:38:51] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[17:42:27] *** amuck_ has joined #haiku[17:42:54] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[17:43:24] *** GeneralMaximus has joined #haiku[17:45:07] *** luroh has joined #haiku[17:45:50] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[17:49:51] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[17:52:54] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[17:56:10] <JonathanThompson> gtaw: perhaps there's a glitch in the Matrix?[17:59:17] *** Logic has quit IRC[18:00:27] *** Hugen has joined #haiku[18:04:27] *** gtaw has quit IRC[18:07:22] *** Ishmael has joined #haiku[18:08:33] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[18:09:29] *** The123king has joined #haiku[18:14:20] *** nutela has joined #haiku[18:16:29] *** axeld has quit IRC[18:19:37] *** skarmiglione has joined #haiku[18:19:54] *** tqh has joined #haiku[18:20:35] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[18:20:43] *** knottnhupfer has quit IRC[18:22:32] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[18:25:07] *** zizban has joined #haiku[18:26:56] *** helf has joined #haiku[18:27:09] <helf> ih[18:27:11] <helf> hi[18:28:09] *** Negr0 has joined #haiku[18:31:13] *** Ishmael has quit IRC[18:32:17] *** Andrius has quit IRC[18:34:52] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[18:38:08] *** fhein has quit IRC[18:40:31] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[18:43:54] <JonathanThompson> yo, helf[18:44:09] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[18:45:26] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku[18:49:38] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[18:50:58] *** GeneralMaximus has quit IRC[18:54:26] *** adamk has quit IRC[18:55:44] *** HaikUbuntu has joined #haiku[18:56:54] *** aldeck has quit IRC[18:56:54] *** Negr0 has quit IRC[18:58:26] *** nutela has quit IRC[19:01:05] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[19:05:38] *** jmelesky_ has joined #haiku[19:09:54] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[19:12:30] *** jmelesky_ is now known as jmelesky[19:13:10] *** sprma_ has joined #haiku[19:13:24] *** leszek has quit IRC[19:23:19] *** sprma has quit IRC[19:23:19] *** sprma_ is now known as sprma[19:25:32] *** jmelesky_ has joined #haiku[19:29:10] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[19:29:52] *** jmelesky_ is now known as jmelesky[19:31:38] *** JimiDini has quit IRC[19:33:34] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[19:40:21] *** _Qeos_ has joined #haiku[19:42:06] *** bverre has quit IRC[19:44:18] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku[19:45:03] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[19:46:05] *** monsoon has joined #haiku[19:46:18] <monsoon> :)[19:46:31] <monsoon> What's up?[19:46:41] *** nutela has joined #haiku[19:49:40] <helf> hi[19:51:35] *** databridge has joined #haiku[19:51:36] *** atomozero has joined #haiku[19:51:52] <databridge> hey the alpha version of haiku is real good[19:52:07] <kitallis> lol[19:52:10] <zizban> better than many betas I've tried over the years.[19:52:35] <databridge> i use it on my old pentium 3 notebook[19:52:38] <databridge> works fine and fast[19:52:51] <databridge> i`m so happy with that[19:53:11] <farhaven> hmm, does anyone have a hint where the vim stuff is stored? specifically color schemes[19:54:31] <databridge> i have a question, is opengl a software mode and no a hardware interface like directx?[19:54:35] <m0ns00n> databridge, It is awesome[19:54:48] <m0ns00n> databridge, I've used the alpha since it was released[19:54:59] <zizban> I use the alpha on my dell laptop[19:55:02] <databridge> m0ns00n, we waited so long[19:55:03] <zizban> pretty sweet[19:55:03] <adamk_> databridge: Yes, software only.[19:55:10] <m0ns00n> databridge, I play games on it, surf with Bezilla and "Aurora"/QT Demo, I code on it etc[19:55:14] <adamk_> databridge: At the moment. OpenGL *can* use hardware, but not on Haiku.[19:55:19] <m0ns00n> databridge, I have no problems with it really..[19:55:24] <databridge> ah ok[19:55:38] <databridge> but you can playing games smoothly without having a real driver?[19:55:43] <zizban> I use mine to work on NaNoWriMo, plus record stuff for our radio station[19:55:56] <m0ns00n> databridge, OpenGL is just another way of gaining hardware acceleration[19:56:06] <m0ns00n> databridge, OpenGL has "Software only drivers"[19:56:09] <adamk_> That's a bad description.[19:56:15] <adamk_> opengl is a 3D API :-)[19:56:21] <m0ns00n> databridge, Gallium3d is one alternative on another platform[19:56:54] <databridge> i was wondering how the cards working fine in vesa mode[19:56:59] <m0ns00n> Anyway, I'm looking forward to alpha2[19:57:11] <m0ns00n> databridge, there are 2d drivers for haiku[19:57:15] <zizban> I have a driver for nvidia card. 2d only[19:57:23] <m0ns00n> databridge, accessing 3d functions are more complex =)[19:57:48] <databridge> is someone working on 3d drivers now?[19:57:54] <m0ns00n> yes[19:58:04] <m0ns00n> somebody else might be better suited to fill you in =)[19:58:22] <warpdesign_zzzz> well, gallium is designed to be cross platform[19:58:29] <warpdesign_zzzz> guess that's what's interesting about it[19:58:33] <adamk_> gallium3d has been ported, but not with any of the 3D drivers, only the software renderer.[19:58:38] <warpdesign_zzzz> no need to rewrite drivers again and again..[19:58:47] *** |Qeos| has quit IRC[19:59:05] <adamk_> mesa is pretty cross platform. gallium's major advantage is better use of shaders.[20:00:04] <zizban> amd it's not like there is a lot of use for 3d on Haiku right now[20:00:25] <adamk_> It'd be cool to have hardware accelerated openarena, but yeah, that's probably it.[20:00:42] <databridge> opensource is the future[20:01:09] <JonathanThompson> Funny, I'm thinking a lot of people would say it is now.[20:01:31] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[20:01:54] <adamk_> I do recall seeing commits regarding direct rendering drivers, which would be the next step to getting 3D acceleration via gallium3d.[20:02:01] <adamk_> But it's probably quite a ways off.[20:03:30] <m0ns00n> AROS doesn't it have hardware accelerated 3d through gallium already?[20:03:48] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson, It is, only it is still fighting to get out of the "Open Source = Linux" paradigm...[20:05:47] *** adb has quit IRC[20:06:58] <zizban> AROS is stuck in the "Every amiga user is used to TV resolutions so high dpi and reolsutions for you" mode.[20:07:01] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[20:07:15] <zizban> drives me bannanas. Their screen resolutions give me headaches.[20:07:23] <databridge> aros also rocks[20:07:25] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[20:07:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[20:08:11] <impy> zizban: thats changing as we speak :)[20:08:22] <databridge> everything different than microsoft rocks[20:08:58] <zizban> impy: good because I actually like what Aros is doing[20:09:23] <databridge> amiga os was great[20:09:45] <warpdesign_zzzz> amigaos lacked (and lacks) memory protection, resource tracking,..[20:09:57] <helf> but its better than winderz!1111[20:10:19] <impy> warpdesign_zzzz: aros already has some initial memory protection[20:12:22] <warpdesign_zzzz> impy: some initial isn't full memory protection..[20:12:36] <warpdesign_zzzz> you can't have full memory protection without breaking the api[20:12:39] <warpdesign_zzzz> that's the point..[20:14:35] <zizban> well, sometimes OSes have to make compromises to retain that comptability[20:14:50] <zizban> I hear some OS is still using GCC 2.95. GASP![20:14:56] <warpdesign_zzzz> well, even apple, mircrosoft,.. are breaking compatibility...[20:15:11] <warpdesign_zzzz> after some decade, you have to move on...[20:15:34] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[20:15:49] <zizban> ya but it's not people are rushing to develop for Aros[20:15:58] <zizban> so you need those legacy apps bad[20:16:27] <impy> warpdesign_zzzz: sort off.. but eventually... it'll have it[20:16:54] <warpdesign_zzzz> impy: i don't think so[20:17:19] <warpdesign_zzzz> uae can be used for these legacy apps..[20:17:52] <zizban> so you are telling would be users, "Our OS isn't good enough, use an emulator"?[20:18:19] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[20:18:49] <warpdesign_zzzz> ?[20:19:14] <zizban> anyway, just playing devil's advocate[20:19:20] <impy> zizban: aros can't run native amiga os applications right now either[20:19:26] <warpdesign_zzzz> I'm telling the users: you wanna use your 20 years old applications ? uae will be built into the os and will take care of that[20:19:40] <warpdesign_zzzz> new apps though, will have to use the new memory protected api[20:19:40] <impy> aros is only source compatible with amigaos[20:19:43] <m0ns00n> zizban, Ever wonder why people aren't rushing? =)[20:19:47] <warpdesign_zzzz> then i break it..[20:20:06] <impy> even if aros would aim to be binary compatible[20:20:21] <zizban> off to see a client[20:20:23] <helf> MS should have dropped all backwards compatibility in 7 and just integrated a nice VM running an XP session[20:20:24] *** zizban has quit IRC[20:20:25] <impy> it wouldn't work at all in the x86 port[20:20:39] <m0ns00n> Must be AmigaOS classic sources modified for compilation with gcc and then without gui[20:20:48] <warpdesign_zzzz> helf: they integrated a vm running xp..[20:21:02] <m0ns00n> Anyway, AROS might get there[20:21:10] <m0ns00n> As long as they get something better than Zune[20:21:12] <m0ns00n> Open Source MUI[20:21:17] <m0ns00n> or anything else.[20:21:36] <m0ns00n> Zune pretty much killed my efforts with the OS[20:21:37] <impy> well... there was feelin once[20:21:45] <impy> but development seemed to have ceased on that[20:21:46] *** adb has joined #haiku[20:21:46] <m0ns00n> Yes, but feelin was abaondined[20:21:49] <m0ns00n> Abandoned..[20:21:52] <helf> warpdesign_zzzz, no, the integrated a really crappy, half hearted attempt at a vm with xp[20:22:01] <helf> they didnt even really "integrate" it[20:22:02] <impy> m0ns00n: still its open sourced[20:22:03] <helf> and its not in the home versions iirc[20:22:07] *** adb has quit IRC[20:22:14] <m0ns00n> impy, Yes, but that's no magic pill[20:22:15] <impy> so its never fully abandoned :)[20:22:22] <warpdesign_zzzz> anyway, what i mean is that's it's been 10-15 years since new amigaos have been written: be it morphos, os4 or aros.. they had plenty of time to implement new memory protected apis, and cross apis available on 68k/ppc, much like apple did with carbon..[20:22:29] <m0ns00n> impy, Just because general relativity is common knowledge, can you make an a-bomb?[20:22:48] <warpdesign_zzzz> but they didn't.. so 15 years later, we have a lot new native apps that will need to be rewritten, again and again..[20:22:58] <impy> warpdesign_zzzz: i believe aos4 has a full memory protection mode[20:23:07] <warpdesign_zzzz> impy: you're dreaming[20:23:08] <impy> but i'm not 100% sure[20:23:17] <warpdesign_zzzz> impy: none has memory protection[20:23:28] <warpdesign_zzzz> you would need a sandbox approach[20:24:37] <helf> aos4 has limited memory protection[20:24:44] <impy> m0ns00n: well nope; but it isn't impossible.[20:26:51] <m0ns00n> impy, That's besides the point :) And underlines my point :)[20:27:33] <m0ns00n> Anyway, AmigaOS is the best C style OO coding platform I've ever seen.[20:27:42] *** nutela has quit IRC[20:27:49] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[20:27:53] <m0ns00n> IMO, BOOPSI style object oriented coding is the most elegant c-style implementation[20:27:55] <JonathanThompson> As long as you don't mind not having memory protection :P[20:28:00] <m0ns00n> YEs[20:28:09] <m0ns00n> But for coders this is often a plus =)[20:28:16] <m0ns00n> It's the users who get the common crash =)[20:28:40] <m0ns00n> For demo coders, memory protection is not a primary goal.[20:28:45] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[20:28:48] <m0ns00n> Or at least for Amiga coders =)[20:28:54] <JonathanThompson> Well, you know what? I'm not so convinced it's such a great thing for coders: if you have more than one application running at the same time, how can you be so sure which app stomped memory all the time?[20:28:57] *** oco has joined #haiku[20:29:14] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson, It's a tried and tired discussion[20:29:32] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson, To put it in a string: memory prot. is the way to go, everyone knows this.[20:29:38] <JonathanThompson> If all you're doing is demo apps, it doesn't matter.[20:29:54] <JonathanThompson> Or, a single app at a time :)[20:30:02] <helf> lisp machines didnt have memory protection and they are rock solid :P[20:30:25] <JonathanThompson> helf: they may not have pointer and array overrun issues, but they'll still have bugs :P[20:30:29] <m0ns00n> Amiga was one of the first multitasking OS'es (everyone knows this) so multitasking and non-memprot systems could work. That's not the issue really.[20:30:47] <JonathanThompson> So, "rock solid" is a dubious thing if you consider it needing to visibly crash before you call it crashy.[20:30:49] <m0ns00n> In computing, never *really* believe in ideal situations.[20:30:49] <helf> no no[20:30:58] <helf> first multitasking "home computer" OSes[20:31:15] <helf> mainframes and whatn ot had been multtiasking since multics and CTSS[20:31:17] <m0ns00n> Memory protection has never made sure no crashing could occur.[20:31:22] * JonathanThompson repeats what helf says[20:31:22] <m0ns00n> helf, read my line agai[20:31:23] <m0ns00n> n[20:31:38] *** henrym has quit IRC[20:31:44] <helf> ah, yeah[20:31:58] *** henrym has joined #haiku[20:32:01] <helf> still, would be better to say "one of the first home computer OSes that multtiasks" :)[20:32:11] <m0ns00n> sure, precision noted =)[20:32:19] <m0ns00n> Linux still is crashing[20:32:28] <m0ns00n> The problem to be solved is still not 100% solved[20:32:35] <m0ns00n> Coding utopia is still not reached =)[20:32:52] <OmniMancer> code has bugs[20:32:59] <m0ns00n> Yes[20:33:00] <OmniMancer> fixing bugs makes more bugs[20:33:03] <m0ns00n> And implementations has holes.[20:33:08] <OmniMancer> no[20:33:23] * JonathanThompson loves the bug/feature continuum[20:33:26] <OmniMancer> the code that embodies the implementation has bugs :P[20:33:30] <m0ns00n> :)[20:33:33] <JonathanThompson> Is it a bug, or a feature, or a featured bug?[20:33:51] <m0ns00n> Patches might not have intended powah[20:33:52] <m0ns00n> :)[20:33:56] <impy> and hardware has bugs too[20:34:00] <m0ns00n> ofc[20:34:06] <JonathanThompson> Tell me it ain't so ;)[20:34:12] <m0ns00n> But they still keep adding features![20:34:13] <impy> it aint so :([20:34:15] <m0ns00n> Open source or no![20:34:26] <JonathanThompson> Thanks, impy, I asked for it, and you delivered :P[20:34:38] <m0ns00n> IMO, kde4 is the ultimate feature nightmare...[20:34:43] <m0ns00n> They ruined a userbase imo.[20:34:59] <m0ns00n> I used it since 1.x days. They just had to ruin it[20:35:23] <impy> JonathanThompson: ;p[20:36:03] <JonathanThompson> At least you're good for something, impy, instead of simply being good for nothing :P[20:37:05] <impy> okay?[20:37:29] <JonathanThompson> :)[20:37:50] * JonathanThompson makes a wild guess without checking that english isn't impy's first language[20:38:28] <m0ns00n> :)[20:38:42] <m0ns00n> as long as his first language aint Goo![20:38:44] <m0ns00n> =)[20:38:51] <JonathanThompson> Go, or Goo?[20:38:53] <m0ns00n> :D[20:39:01] * JonathanThompson thinks that could get someone into some sticky situations[20:39:04] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson, You're a coder?[20:39:10] <JonathanThompson> Yes.[20:39:16] <JonathanThompson> That's one word that can be used ;)[20:39:19] <m0ns00n> How did you like google's new toy?[20:39:35] <helf> I'm quite fond of Gnime[20:39:37] <helf> Gnome[20:39:52] <helf> they have kept it simplistic over the years.. even with all the bitching that goes on[20:39:57] <JonathanThompson> I've not fully investigated it: I've got too many other languages I need to get proficient in that have companies hiring for before I can invest my time/effort/sanity in a new one that may never catch on.[20:40:03] <helf> it runs well and stays out of the way. i love it[20:40:28] <m0ns00n> helf, Yes. Just for how long. And just so it's said, they should focus even more on fixing bugs. Some of their bugs are years and years old and are central to the desktop.[20:40:47] <JonathanThompson> They're featured bugs, in other words :P[20:41:04] <helf> m0ns00n, true[20:41:07] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson, Basicly, it's like C, just with fewer features and done syntactically a bit different...[20:41:11] <impy> JonathanThompson: you've guessed correctly[20:41:13] <helf> m0ns00n, i hope they don't start adding random crap for no reason[20:41:25] <helf> m0ns00n, users want "bling" and it usually destroys things[20:41:32] *** adb has joined #haiku[20:41:39] <m0ns00n> helf, more like always ...[20:41:50] <m0ns00n> helf, the desktop was almost perfected in the 90's[20:41:51] * JonathanThompson finds an old Apple 2GS keyboard to plug into adb[20:42:13] * JonathanThompson waits for helf to mention NeXTStep[20:42:13] <m0ns00n> helf, the constant struggle to teach "grandma" how to use a computer is futile[20:42:37] *** dru_ has quit IRC[20:42:43] <JonathanThompson> No, resistance is futile :P[20:42:46] <m0ns00n> helf, and opposite in making the desktop more efficient for people who actually should use a computer[20:43:05] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson, :) No, Locutus taught us differently :P[20:43:08] <helf> that is one reason I still love using nextstep on my NeXT[20:43:08] *** adb has joined #haiku[20:43:23] * JonathanThompson plugs in an ancient Apple 2GS keyboard into adb[20:43:28] <helf> its fast, efficient and has NO bling as *all*[20:43:29] <m0ns00n> :D[20:43:34] <helf> :)[20:43:42] *** adb has quit IRC[20:43:57] <m0ns00n> IMO, I hope the linux crowd doesn't destroy Haiky R2.[20:44:01] <JonathanThompson> Must be he didn't like that keyboard, or perhaps it was hot-swapped, and that blew some circuits :P[20:44:10] <m0ns00n> I see many wanting to change Haiku into becoming another unix..[20:44:29] <m0ns00n> In the name of userfriendlyeness![20:44:29] *** adb has joined #haiku[20:44:29] <mmu_man> actually I thought ADB was created for the IIGC first[20:44:43] <JonathanThompson> Haiku==desktop OS, and should be optimized accordingly.[20:44:43] *** adb has quit IRC[20:44:52] <JonathanThompson> IIGC?[20:44:52] <helf> m0ns00n, god.. I HATE that crap[20:44:54] <m0ns00n> Right now, it's working pretty sweet.[20:45:04] <helf> so many people also seem to think that Haiku is already based on "linux"[20:45:10] <mmu_man> GS[20:45:12] * helf hates stupid people[20:45:15] <m0ns00n> :D[20:45:16] <m0ns00n> hehe[20:45:16] <helf> IIGS[20:45:19] <helf> something I still want[20:45:24] <m0ns00n> I bet you haven't taken the vaccine then :P[20:45:29] <JonathanThompson> Yes, that's what I said, mmu_man :P[20:45:46] <mmu_man> :p[20:46:00] <mmu_man> now, if only this ppc mac would boot haiku...[20:46:03] <mmu_man> OF2 sux[20:46:12] *** yamokidzu-it has joined #haiku[20:46:33] <helf> The amount of nuttery surrounding lunix is amazing[20:46:53] <mmu_man> beware! lunix != linux[20:46:55] <JonathanThompson> Well, there has to be an equal number (or more) nuts for every bolt within :P[20:47:19] <helf> mmu_man, I use lunix in reference to an online joke[20:47:36] *** skarmiglione has quit IRC[20:47:50] <mmu_man> http://lng.sf.net :p[20:48:26] *** nutela has joined #haiku[20:48:36] <helf> heh[20:48:39] <helf> never seen that :P[20:50:04] * JonathanThompson reads descriptions with curious eyebrows raised[20:50:05] *** adamk has joined #haiku[20:50:31] <helf> it has amazing number of features for a c64 OS[20:51:12] <mmu_man> :)[20:51:20] <helf> lol[20:51:24] <helf> 0.37 bogomips[20:51:24] <helf> http://lng.sourceforge.net/lunix/c128_lun.png[20:51:26] <MrSunshine_> yey, sisters old laptop, a P4 2.66GHz runs haiku very well, NIC supported, graphics supported, usb working etc =)[20:51:26] <helf> thats awesome[20:51:45] <MrSunshine_> and i can buy it very cheap =)[20:51:53] <helf> cool :)[20:52:11] <JonathanThompson> Now you'll have your own portable furnace to run Haiku on, MrSunshine_ :P[20:52:26] <MrSunshine_> aye =)[20:52:43] <MrSunshine_> they just have to check for pictures etc they want to backup first =)[20:53:12] * JonathanThompson has no interest in picking up any P4 machine after his experiences with a work-issued desktop replacement portable[20:53:30] <m0ns00n> MrSunshine_, I have a similar success[20:53:30] <JonathanThompson> That thing was the biggest POS for the power it used.[20:53:47] <JonathanThompson> 3.4 Ghz P4 laptop, overheated way too readily.[20:53:49] <m0ns00n> MrSunshine_, Just can't figure out how to turn off the inner speaker. (it is sharing volume with the audio out)[20:54:01] <MrSunshine_> heh =)[20:54:31] <MrSunshine_> cut the cables :P[20:54:32] <m0ns00n> MrSunshine_, Otherwise, very stable system - but alpha1 can't run Haiku compiled apps from bebits etc it seems, only BeOS ones.[20:54:33] <m0ns00n> :)[20:55:06] <m0ns00n> Must be api changes? I dunno..[20:55:12] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[20:55:22] <m0ns00n> Download the BeOS version of a given app and you're fine.. =))[20:56:35] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[20:57:39] *** adb has joined #haiku[20:59:58] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[21:05:28] *** Hugen has quit IRC[21:09:38] *** leszek has joined #haiku[21:09:56] <leszek> hi[21:10:12] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[21:10:50] *** databridge has quit IRC[21:10:50] <helf> JonathanThompson, my p4s have been rock stable :P[21:10:54] <helf> even at 4.7ghz[21:16:41] <m0ns00n> wow[21:16:44] <m0ns00n> that's much[21:16:52] <m0ns00n> most sold pc[21:16:59] <m0ns00n> s today are < 3ghz[21:17:03] <helf> yeah[21:17:03] <m0ns00n> still[21:17:06] <m0ns00n> since 2002-3[21:17:23] <helf> even at 4.7ghz, it wouldnt hold up much of a fight against a $60 core2 chip[21:17:29] <helf> i gave it to my little sister. heh[21:17:40] <helf> it runs photoshop cs4 and what not really wlel[21:17:58] <OmniMancer> most of them now are < 3ghz but are multicore[21:18:17] <helf> frequency doesnt matter much if you arent doing much with it :P[21:18:25] *** kitallis has quit IRC[21:18:34] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[21:18:59] *** xvedejas has joined #haiku[21:19:17] <AlienSoldier> i expect over 100G processor once they finnaly decide to go spin tronic, thoe elecronic cpu really are victorian now[21:20:34] <saivert> spin tronic?[21:21:33] <AlienSoldier> electron spin logic[21:22:38] <m0ns00n> Interesting[21:22:49] <m0ns00n> I'm mostly interested in more ghz beef, not more cores[21:22:55] <m0ns00n> Any limit is intimidating =)[21:23:24] <helf> pretty much any new core2/i5/7 series chip can hit 4ghz without too much issue[21:23:32] <AlienSoldier> i saw some "squid" josephson junction circuit about 15 years ago that were running at around 70G[21:23:40] <m0ns00n> wow[21:24:09] <AlienSoldier> they were not "processor", but they could be used in them, and at those speed, you can make them lot simpler[21:25:08] <helf> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/solids/squid.html[21:25:16] <saivert> what is G?[21:25:18] <thebolt> it isn't all about frequency though :P[21:25:54] <AlienSoldier> saivert sorry, hhz[21:26:00] <AlienSoldier> *ghz[21:26:02] <saivert> GHz[21:27:05] <thebolt> Atoms N270 runs at 1.6GHz, still only gives you .3 GFlops..[21:27:07] <AlienSoldier> It's like Intel and it's "light peak" protocol, i made someting similar... when i was in coledge with 286 computer[21:27:08] *** nutela has quit IRC[21:27:22] <AlienSoldier> they just are NOT an innovative company[21:27:30] <thebolt> or a .19GFlops/GHz[21:27:33] <saivert> yes, but light can only be used to replace copper in signalling[21:27:37] <saivert> it's not useful for much else[21:27:39] <saivert> as far as I know[21:28:00] <saivert> so they are supposed to replace copper traces on a motherboard's PCB with light channels?[21:28:08] <mmu_man> hm is it today that we are supposed to have a maintainance on svn. ?[21:28:16] <helf> what will that do? remove minute latency issues? :P[21:28:20] <saivert> the graphics card is thus connected to the motherboard via fiber optics?[21:28:27] <AlienSoldier> saivert why not, teh technology exist , it's called solgel[21:28:28] <thebolt> other processors can give up to at least 10-15Gflops/GHz[21:28:35] <helf> thebolt, thats a really simple chip, too. in-order and all[21:28:46] <thebolt> helf: sure[21:28:56] <thebolt> helf: just what i wanted to point out.. frequency isn't all :P[21:29:00] <helf> :)[21:29:20] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[21:29:21] <helf> my 4.7ghz pentium 4 was showing just double the bogomips of my core duo 1.6 laptop :P[21:29:26] <helf> which is kinda sad[21:29:33] * helf knows bogomips isnt a good measurement[21:29:55] <thebolt> i'm pretty sure our custom-designed DCT-processor will outperform a modern P4 in jpeg encoding..[21:30:09] <helf> wouldnt surprise me[21:30:13] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[21:30:16] <thebolt> but we're only running at 25Mhz[21:30:20] <helf> custom chips usually outperform general purpose chips in a given task[21:30:31] <thebolt> (otoh, we do 4 8x8 blocks per clock cycle.. )[21:31:23] <saivert> so sol-gel has the property of transmitting light?[21:31:39] <helf> i still dont see why light would help much[21:31:48] <helf> sinvce you'd still have to convert it to electrical signals once it got to a chip[21:31:56] <thebolt> pipelined, so once you input a big enough image (or a sequence of it) it processes 6.4 GPixels/s ;) have to write good code for that[21:32:06] <thebolt> anyhow, i'm off to drink some beer[21:32:09] <helf> nice, thebolt :P[21:32:33] <saivert> unless the CPU itself processes light instead of electrons[21:32:59] <saivert> it would not generate any heat as a waste product[21:33:43] <AlienSoldier> saivert it's a process, it can be used to deposit optical material[21:34:52] <saivert> most of the stuff humans have invented gives off heat as a waste product. heat is such an abundant form of energy yet very useless form[21:35:49] <AlienSoldier> saivert waht would be "cool" is to emmit coherant infrared heat :)[21:43:54] <helf> what would be awesome is a 0% waste of energy do to heat :)[21:45:40] *** leszek has quit IRC[21:46:12] *** leszek has joined #haiku[21:47:30] <saivert> yes, and I think light would make that possible.[21:47:43] <saivert> pure light (not irradiant light) doesn't have any heat[21:48:24] <saivert> just need to find a way to manipulate that like we now do with electrons[21:48:41] *** nutela has joined #haiku[21:48:57] <saivert> or maybe it's just a pipe dream. who knows[21:50:38] <AlienSoldier> it's possible to do a light computer[21:51:47] <AlienSoldier> light wave can add up and substract and you can "stop" light in what could be memories (but the size is probably to big now)[21:52:04] <m0ns00n> thebolt, you have to be off to drink some beed? *sigh* :P[21:53:47] <AlienSoldier> the way to currently reduce heat in computer is a technique called "reversible computing", another thing nobody want to do[21:58:42] *** bcreactos has joined #haiku[21:59:12] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[21:59:31] <m0ns00n> AlienSoldier, I'm gonna be happy when raytracing is as fast as using layers in gimp =)[21:59:53] <m0ns00n> Probably gonna happen soon. It would rock a great deal :)[22:00:23] *** bcreactos has quit IRC[22:01:02] *** egarim has joined #haiku[22:05:58] <AlienSoldier> i want ray tracing badly. There is so much stuff that come free with it i don't get why it's not comming faster. i guess all video game maker no longuer making their own engine is for a lot in this[22:06:40] *** hoelzro has quit IRC[22:08:52] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[22:12:58] *** dflemstr has quit IRC[22:14:06] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[22:16:55] <OmniMancer> AlienSoldier: its not exactly for free[22:17:01] <OmniMancer> its more like you make everything slow[22:17:14] <OmniMancer> in order to easily get a bunch of hard to do things[22:18:06] <OmniMancer> also most of the things that raytracing does nicely are not in video games[22:18:49] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[22:20:38] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[22:22:17] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[22:23:11] <AlienSoldier> OmniMancer well, you get a lot of thing for free, like collision mast being the same as the visual model[22:23:20] <AlienSoldier> *mask[22:24:04] <OmniMancer> not exactly free[22:24:08] <OmniMancer> just convenient[22:24:15] <AlienSoldier> right[22:24:26] <egarim> awfully close to free[22:25:00] <OmniMancer> more of a convenience of the method[22:25:10] *** noisetonepause has joined #haiku[22:25:17] <OmniMancer> like shadows in raytracing are easy to do[22:25:28] <egarim> but certain significant things become rather difficult, so it's a pretty even trads... except for the incredible slowdown[22:25:33] <OmniMancer> but come at the cost of all rendering being slower due to the use of raytracing[22:25:57] <OmniMancer> the slowdown can be mitigated by massive parallelism[22:26:27] *** nutela has quit IRC[22:27:29] <OmniMancer> because each ray is effectively separate from the other rays[22:28:34] <egarim> One nice thing about raytracing is it is automatically maximally culled - nothing gets rendered that won't be displayed.[22:32:26] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[22:32:38] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[22:37:24] <egarim> I'm curious as to how this topic got brought up. Is there some nifty ray tracing stuff for Haiku?[22:38:16] <OmniMancer> egarim: nothing that won't get displayed will be rendered, but it may be considdered...[22:38:36] <OmniMancer> especially with simple ones where collision is tested against all objects[22:39:09] <egarim> well, that would be an awfully naive implementation[22:40:26] <egarim> a similarly naive polygonal rendering engine would be just as wasteful[22:40:28] <OmniMancer> its small toy raytracers that are going to be used on small scenes[22:40:52] <OmniMancer> where the whole scene is a few objects and most of them are in the frame anyway[22:41:13] <egarim> as might have been evinced by my prior question, I didn't know what ray tracers we were talking about. =)[22:43:22] <OmniMancer> someone started talking about them :P[22:43:48] <OmniMancer> what is the best way to tell what a ray may intersect with to minimise tests?[22:44:06] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[22:48:50] <egarim> I don't know what the best way is, but a good first step is to use octrees to ignore chunks of objects that aren't even in the right direction[22:50:44] *** michail has joined #haiku[22:52:05] <egarim> I suspect there are probably some good research papers online that would outline more advanced techniques[22:55:02] <CIA-69> oruizdorantes * r34024 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/bluetooth/ (CodeHandler.h btCoreData.h): Add class to handle all code values to be sent in the ports[22:55:32] <egarim> e.g. http://is.gd/4Uvfz[22:57:15] <AlienSoldier> egarim subject pop out of the quantum flux here :P[22:57:33] *** monsoon has quit IRC[22:58:34] <mmu_man> eh, didn't see this one ; http://tweakers.net/nieuws/62496/haiku-os-krijgt-na-acht-jaar-ontwikkeling-de-alfastatus.html[22:59:34] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[22:59:53] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[23:00:29] <CIA-69> oruizdorantes * r34025 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/bluetooth/btCoreData.h: File not yet ready, revert[23:02:19] *** urnenfeld has quit IRC[23:02:28] *** atomozero has quit IRC[23:03:10] <egarim> Google Translate seems to be getting better at this, though the grammar still leaves me scratching my head.[23:05:03] *** m0ns00n has quit IRC[23:05:22] *** egarim has quit IRC[23:06:04] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[23:17:03] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[23:26:11] *** michail has quit IRC[23:27:11] *** TheNerd has joined #haiku[23:27:40] *** PacoLinux has quit IRC[23:28:46] *** PacoLinux has joined #haiku[23:29:19] *** kolla has joined #haiku[23:29:54] <kolla> problem.. I installed haiku to a partition, but when it boots from there it never gets past the "rocket" in the splash[23:30:47] <leszek> kolla: try booting with safe mode options (press spacebar right before bootscreen)[23:31:01] *** demetrio has joined #haiku[23:31:11] <kolla> ok, thanks... it was something like that I was looking for :)[23:31:54] <kolla> ah, cool... lots of options[23:32:09] * helf|laptop is in for a B movie marathon tonight![23:32:24] <helf|laptop> A Boy and His Dog, Robot Monster, and Wizards[23:32:25] <helf|laptop> ^_^[23:33:06] <kolla> booting with text output to screen :)[23:33:55] <kolla> ah, some usb trouble or something[23:34:41] *** broadcast has joined #haiku[23:34:49] <kolla> acquire_spinlock(): Failed to acquite spinlock 0x80129c28 for a long time![23:34:55] *** tqh has quit IRC[23:35:00] <kolla> s/acuite/acquire[23:35:30] *** egarim has joined #haiku[23:36:01] <kolla> yes, booting without usb devices plugged in works[23:37:17] <kolla> ok, retry with only usb mouse+kbd in[23:37:48] <kolla> nope, then it stops again[23:39:41] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[23:42:12] <kolla> ok, vaguely annoying... I cant have neither mouse or keyboard inserted in usb when booting, or else it wont come up :)[23:42:21] <kolla> nor[23:42:28] <Ingenu> http://innovationweb.branchez-vous.com/upload/2009/01/google-chrome-challenges-ms-os.jpg[23:42:58] <Ingenu> :)[23:49:10] <Yaroze> HAHAH[23:50:12] <helf|laptop> heh[23:50:17] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[23:50:20] <helf|laptop> thats pretty great[23:50:28] * helf|laptop doesn't have much hope for Google OS, tho[23:50:29] <Yaroze> yeh i laughed :D[23:50:43] *** leszek has quit IRC[23:50:55] <Yaroze> helf|laptop: googles os runs great here :)[23:51:12] <helf|laptop> what are you running it on?[23:51:37] <Yaroze> helf|laptop: my cellphone[23:51:39] <helf|laptop> lemme rephrase it; I have next to no interest in it :P[23:51:43] <helf|laptop> android?[23:51:46] <Yaroze> yeh[23:51:58] <helf|laptop> I've played with it... meh :P[23:52:04] *** fengshaun has joined #haiku[23:52:29] <helf|laptop> I need a new phone.. I've toyed with getting an android one. but i cant decide[23:52:38] <helf|laptop> i almost think i should just get another flipphone[23:52:59] <egarim> I've got a rooted G1. Android is great, but the Dream is one cheesy bit of hardware.[23:53:20] <helf|laptop> I just don' see why people are drooling over the UI so much[23:54:24] <Yaroze> helf|laptop: thats because people like us dont like bloated UIs etc :P[23:54:46] <egarim> Different people drool over different things. As far as phone interfaces go, it's second to none. I suppose iPhone OS would be on par if it had widgets, a modular architecture, and a compass.[23:54:49] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[23:55:34] <helf|laptop> egarim, subjective :P[23:55:39] <helf|laptop> Yaroze, good point[23:55:57] *** Barrett_ has joined #haiku[23:56:25] <helf|laptop> egarim, no accounting for some peoples tastes ;)[23:56:32] <HeTo> helf|laptop: have you considered the N900?[23:56:35] *** kirilla has quit IRC[23:56:41] <Yaroze> helf|laptop: you can get a bash terminal instead of the ui if you want to :D[23:56:42] <egarim> Well, objectively, purely in terms of feature availability, it is without equal.[23:56:44] *** Andrius has quit IRC[23:56:46] <helf|laptop> HeTo, im stuck on sprint for the time being[23:56:52] *** Barrett has quit IRC[23:57:29] <egarim> Sprint has an Android phone. *grin*[23:57:34] <helf|laptop> HeTo, it wont work on sprint, right?[23:57:36] <helf|laptop> egarim, i know[23:57:37] <helf|laptop> two[23:57:44] <egarim> yes, two[23:57:46] <HeTo> not sure how its interface works in practice, though, they've revamped it quite a lot since 770/N8x0 series[23:57:47] <helf|laptop> the htc hero and the samsung something or other[23:57:54] <egarim> Behold II[23:57:55] <egarim> I think[23:58:00] <helf|laptop> HeTo, isnt it running maemo?[23:58:05] <helf|laptop> egarim, i didnt see it today when i was looking[23:58:07] <kolla> I suppose ipv6 support is not something anyone is doing anything about?[23:58:17] <helf|laptop> egarim, im actually looking at getting a new phone.. but i cant decide on what[23:58:26] <helf|laptop> im kind of sick of "smart phones" that end up being buggy POSes[23:58:30] <HeTo> helf|laptop: idk, you Americans with your non-GSM systems, operator locks and all[23:58:33] <egarim> I'm thinking of switching from T-Mobile to Verizon to get the Droid <3[23:58:44] <helf|laptop> HeTo, CDMA has some upsides over GSM :P[23:58:50] <HeTo> helf|laptop: it's Maemo, yes, but the GUI is redesigned[23:58:54] <helf|laptop> egarim, ill admit, the droid looks sweet[23:58:58] <egarim> and GSM some upsides over CDMA[23:59:02] <helf|laptop> right[23:59:07] <egarim> CDMA is only deployed in the US, for instance[23:59:09] <HeTo> Expose on a phone looks cool, though :-P[23:59:19] <helf|laptop> but i dont do world traveling (sadly :( ) so it is of no importance to me[23:59:20] <egarim> which is fine for me, but useless for most of my friends.[23:59:32] *** haiku has joined #haiku