[00:00:03] <umccullough> duglia, was referring to luroh's issue :)
[00:00:10] <duglia> 1 3,5" output and 2 3,5" inputs
[00:00:15] <umccullough> anyhow, i gotta go now
[00:00:16] <duglia> oh
[00:00:34] <umccullough> if mmu_screen pops on, ask him - he's the porter of OSS
[00:00:56] <umccullough> and owner of revolf.free.fr
[00:01:05] <duglia> i may send an email
[00:01:37] <MYOB> luroh it doesn't take DVD audio out over the cable - if thats what you mean?
[00:01:38] <luroh> MYOB: yes, works fine, sound and all
[00:01:46] <MYOB> woo
[00:01:55] <MYOB> more proof its begasus's dodgy drive then :P
[00:01:57] <luroh> i'm testing in vmware here
[00:02:09] <MYOB> ahh right
[00:02:21] <luroh> i can go test on some real hw as well if you'd like
[00:02:34] <MYOB> when you get a chance, that should be fine for now
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[00:13:48] <CIA-69> korli * r33954 /haiku/vendor/libpng/current/ (48 files in 2 dirs): updating libpng to 1.2.40
[00:13:55] <luroh> MYOB: yes, works fine on real hw as well
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[00:14:39] <CIA-69> korli * r33955 /haiku/vendor/libpng/1.2.40/: tagging libpng 1.2.40
[00:14:43] <luroh> this is with gcc2 only, no hybrid stuff
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[00:21:31] <MYOB> gcc2hybrid should be fine, its gcc4hybrid that appears to be teh problem
[00:21:38] <MYOB> and of course it won't run on gcc4 plain at all ;)
[00:22:11] <CIA-69> korli * r33956 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): updated libpng to 1.2.40
[00:22:48] <luroh> right
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[02:00:23] <ajitomatix> hello haiku folks!
[02:00:42] * ajitomatix is a haiku newbie
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[02:01:15] <ajitomatix> does anyone know how to upgrade to the latest nightly release from within an installed Haiku?
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[02:02:53] <mmadia> you dont :)
[02:03:44] <ajitomatix> mmadia do you mean that I shouldn't upgrade to the nightly?
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[02:03:57] <mmadia> the easiest way is to make a bootable usb stick, boot that, backup files, and re-install.
[02:04:42] <ajitomatix> i see, to make a bootable usb I'll need to do it from another OS is it?
[02:04:54] <ajitomatix> like using linux and the dd command?
[02:05:28] <mmadia> yeah.  you should be able to do that within Haiku.
[02:05:53] <mmadia> http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/making_haiku_usb_stick
[02:06:05] <ajitomatix> ah thanks. i'll read up.
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[02:10:22] <ajitomatix> after creating the usb disk, the disk would not be usable on other OSes as a regular USB storage disk correct?
[02:10:38] <ajitomatix> the dd command would effectively make it a BeFS USB ?
[02:10:57] <mmadia> correct on both accounts.
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[02:11:40] <mmadia> if you dd to the entire drive, which is the simplest method, the drive will be limited to the size of the image file.
[02:11:47] <ajitomatix> thanks mmadia. one last question, I should still be able to reformat that USB drive later as a normal FAT32 yes?
[02:12:21] <mmadia> yep.
[02:12:57] <ajitomatix> excellent! thanks, I really appreciate your help.
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[05:10:41] <haiku> Not much excitement here.
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[05:16:09] <Captain_Pike> Is there a working GUI-based ftp client for Haiku? I am attempting to run some SL/OpenGL tests in VirtualBox, and transferring files from host OS to Haiku via wget is very difficult.
[05:18:35] <mmadia> i've grown used to using scp
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[05:20:48] <Captain_Pike> Thanks, I will try that
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[05:56:19] <Captain_Pike> How does one set "include" paths for gcc? (I'm trying to compile an SDL program, which requires header files from boot/common/include/SDL)
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[05:57:35] <mmadia> if not,, check configure --help
[06:11:46] <Captain_Pike> Thanks, -I/path/to/directory/containing/header_name seemed to fix it.
[06:14:58] <alexsuraci> another day lost to playing with haiku
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[06:24:18] <umccullough> heh, i can think of worse ways to waste a day ;)
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[06:37:53] <Captain_Pike> Huh... Second time I've seen this runtime error in Alpha: "missing symbol GetTooltipAt_  5bviewG6BPointPP8BToolTip". Google pulls up nothing. Any ideas?
[06:38:18] <mmadia> what software causes that?
[06:40:58] <Captain_Pike> One moment... (finding software title)
[06:42:05] <CIA-69> scottmc * r468 /haikuports/trunk/media-gfx/tuxpaint/tuxpaint-cvs.patch: Patch for cvs head of tuxpaint, this allows it to build but there's still some crashing issues to figure out.
[06:43:08] <umccullough> i think that was an API that changed
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[06:49:43] <Captain_Pike> Regarding the ToolTip error: My own horribly written/linked/compiled SDL program throws the error, which is to be expected (moron at keyboard). However, I am sure I saw the same error earlier today in a "real" program. Sadly, I am unable to remember which program. If it happens again, Iwill report it properly.
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[06:51:00] <umccullough> well, it indicates that something was linked against a lib that contains it, but that it's missing now
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[06:51:28] <umccullough> considering it was added only 3 weeks ago: http://dev.haiku-os.org/changeset/32078/haiku/trunk/headers/os/interface/View.h
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[06:51:44] <umccullough> http://dev.haiku-os.org/changeset/32078
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[06:52:08] <umccullough> it's not too surprising
[06:52:16] <Captain_Pike> Ah, ok, thanks. I feel more sane now.
[06:52:30] <umccullough> i assume you're not using a recent trunk build
[06:52:45] <Captain_Pike> I am using the Alpha.
[06:52:48] <umccullough> it does mean, however, that someone has built something you're using on a more recent trunk build
[06:52:55] <umccullough> perhaps SDL itself
[06:53:12] <umccullough> or some other lib?
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[06:54:58] <Captain_Pike> It could very well be SDL. I think I may have downloaded a more recent SDL package. I will try to compile on a more recent nightly build.
[06:55:20] <umccullough> mm... well it's likely a bug anyway
[06:55:26] <Captain_Pike> Thanks for being so amazingly responsive, all :)
[06:55:31] <umccullough> since it indicates some kind of binary compatibility change
[06:56:01] <umccullough> i'm just not sure I remember what the deal was with that one
[06:56:20] <umccullough> looks like it was put in using one of the reserved methods from BView
[06:56:32] <Captain_Pike> I'm just fascinated that SDL works at all.
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[09:35:14] <CIA-69> axeld * r33957 /haiku/trunk/headers/posix/wchar.h:
[09:35:14] <CIA-69> * Removed superfluous wcstoul() version pointed out by Scott.
[09:35:14] <CIA-69> * Removed superfluous "int" before wcstol().
[09:35:14] <CIA-69> * Minor cleanup.
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[12:30:28] <CIA-69> axeld * r33958 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/input_server/filters/shortcut_catcher/KeyCommandMap.cpp: * Cleanup, no functional change.
[12:31:43] <CIA-69> axeld * r33959 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/input/AddOnManager.cpp: * Fixed warning.
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[14:09:29] <CIA-69> axeld * r33960 /haiku/trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
[14:09:29] <CIA-69> * Replaced "Mark As New" with a "Mark As?\195?\162?\194?\128?\194?\166" Tracker add-on that let you choose
[14:09:29] <CIA-69> among all defined status.
[14:09:29] <CIA-69> * Note, until bug #4851 is solved, the list Mail shows might differ from the
[14:09:29] <CIA-69> one "Mark As?\195?\162?\194?\128?\194?\166" shows.
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[15:36:04] <GeneralMaximus> evening :)
[15:36:15] <zizban> Morning
[15:36:31] <GeneralMaximus> hi zizban :)
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[15:41:57] * GeneralMaximus used Python to write the algorithms in his CompSci exam. The teacher can barely read C :/
[15:42:04] <GeneralMaximus> stupid, stupid, stupid experiment :(
[15:42:39] <zizban> d'oh!
[15:44:01] <GeneralMaximus> i did write PSEUDOCODE and underlined it several times before writing the algorithm, though
[15:44:05] <GeneralMaximus> i just hope he gets it
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[15:45:20] <zizban> Heh
[15:45:28] <zizban> ooo looksee a wifi gui to test!
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[15:56:12] <zizban> the wifi config app works great
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[16:17:32] <CIA-69> axeld * r33961 /haiku/trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
[16:17:32] <CIA-69> * Adjusted thread priorities of several system services based on a mail from
[16:17:32] <CIA-69> Mikhail Panasyuk: since worker threads often end up with B_NORMAL_PRIORITY,
[16:17:32] <CIA-69> it might be a good idea to give system threads a higher priority.
[16:17:32] <CIA-69> * Minor cleanup (mostly automatic whitespace).
[16:25:12] <zizban> I like what was said on the mailing list
[16:25:29] <zizban> "We decide on Alpha 2 or Beta until we figure out what we want to do for R1"
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[16:43:31] <CaptainPike> Does a web site exist that is dedicated to game development on Haiku, or should I set one up?
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[16:45:16] <mmadia> why would an entire website be needed?
[16:45:36] <mmadia> ... instead of a series of articles submitted to haiku-os.org
[16:46:40] <CaptainPike> That may be a better idea. I was thinking of documenting what I learn as I go along, and maybe compiling the bits and peices 've found from various sites.
[16:47:17] <CaptainPike> Maybe submittinf articles, plus a little blog somewhere.
[16:48:18] <mmadia> if you plan on having coding examples, you might be able to get an account at OSDrawer.
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[16:50:23] <CaptainPike> Ok, thanks. I will keep that in mind as I go along.
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[16:54:18] <umccullough> you could also do a blog on haikuware.com or something
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[16:55:36] <mmadia> morning umccullough.
[16:55:51] <umccullough> leaving soon :(
[16:55:55] <mmu_man> plop
[16:56:14] <mmu_man> I'll give another presentation of Haiku next week :)
[16:56:17] <mmu_man> http://ocs.inrialpes.fr/2009/?q=content/workshops_detailed_program
[16:56:23] <mmadia> i've fwd'd you some mail from Cafepress and Ellen.
[16:56:38] <umccullough> ok, i won't get to them until i'm at work
[16:56:39] <mmu_man> (they also goofed on the "linux distro", as always :p)
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[17:23:04] <CaptainPike> Regarding the creation of coding articles and blogs: Is it prefered to keep these things on haiku-os.org/OS Drawer, as opposed to spread about on various third-party web sites?
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[17:25:07] <mmadia> coding articles, guides, any hard information about Haiku -- definitely, as consolidating it to one location makes it easier for other people to find it.
[17:26:09] <mmadia> as far as the blog, haiku-os.org doesn't hand them out freely,  *but* if you submit a few nice articles you could request blogging permissions.
[17:26:13] <JonathanThompson> That being said, I doubt anyone would get too upset if they're on third-party sites, since this isn't a totalitarian regime.
[17:26:44] <CaptainPike> Ok, thanks.
[17:27:22] <Al2O3> was yesterday's build done at about 2:00 PM MST?
[17:27:26] <JonathanThompson> First of all, people would have to be aware you created third-party blogs/articles ;)
[17:28:37] <CaptainPike> That is a good point. :)
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[17:36:41] <CIA-69> scottmc * r33962 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/OptionalBuildFeatures: Updated openssl to 0.9.8l.
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[17:39:09] <CIA-69> anevilyak * r33963 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/tracker/mark_as/Jamfile: Fix build.
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[17:59:05] <zizban> Begasus: are you awake?
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[18:32:50] <CIA-69> axeld * r33964 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/tracker/mark_as/MarkAs.cpp: * GCC4 build fix.
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[18:42:07] <The123king> Someone call in the coroner. #Haiku is dead...
[18:43:09] * JonathanThompson calls The123king the coroner
[18:43:19] <JonathanThompson> Better change your clothes, The123king !
[18:43:34] <The123king> awwwm an, i'm wearing my best suit :(
[18:43:45] <zizban> Just release alpha 1.1 and this place will be hopping
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[18:44:05] <kitallis> No need to do that.
[18:44:08] <kitallis> I'm here.
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[18:45:07] <The123king> i tell you what, i'll run around wearing nothing and pretend to be a crazy person, screaming "Join #haiku!!!"
[18:45:16] <kitallis> No need to do that.
[18:45:17] <kitallis> I'm here.
[18:45:45] <kitallis> Do you feel waves buzzing through you? Can you feel it?
[18:46:10] <kitallis> It - the blood wizzing around?
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[18:46:36] <zizban> ya like woah dude
[18:46:38] <zizban> rad
[18:46:45] <kitallis> totally.
[18:46:50] <kitallis> RAD!
[18:47:23] <The123king> i feel the wind blowing round :/
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[18:47:41] <kitallis> See. I make things happen.
[18:47:47] <kitallis> Just like leavengood :S
[18:48:02] <leszek> hi
[18:48:06] <The123king> hola
[18:48:10] <kitallis> 'ol
[18:48:20] <JJack> yo
[18:48:34] <zizban> yo
[18:48:59] <The123king> goes up and down on a string?
[18:49:17] <JJack> You're thinking of substr
[18:50:04] <The123king> oh yeh, silly me#
[18:51:51] <zizban> did bebits go poof?
[18:52:00] <The123king> seems to be the case
[18:52:27] <zizban> ah
[18:52:29] <zizban> ok
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[18:54:07] <The123king> does the Haiku wifi stack connect to secure wifi networks yet?
[18:54:27] <mmu_man> no
[18:54:44] <The123king> awww shucks
[18:55:46] <mmu_man> it's not fininshed yet, you can send a patch :)
[18:57:57] <zizban> I can connect to my test unsecure point here. Pretty cool.
[19:00:04] <zizban> secure is part of the bounty. Give it time. I believe he has until december.
[19:01:55] <zizban> No maybe secure isn't part. Me bad.
[19:07:17] <JJack> To get the first part of the bounty, I've heard he's implemented the 'Wi' but not the 'Fi'
[19:07:54] <zizban> you can connect to unsecured wifi points with some atheros cards. Probably most of them.
[19:07:58] <zizban> but I only have one
[19:09:22] <CaptainPike> I listened to Ryan Leavengood's podcast interview with a Linux user's group last night. He did well, despite the fact that the Linux guys seemd horribly drugged and/or dying.
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[19:11:24] <zizban> drugged
[19:11:29] <JJack> I did the exact same thing. And thought the exact same thing.
[19:13:04] <JJack> Perhaps that's just what long-term exposure of Linux does to people.
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[19:13:24] <mmu_man> lol
[19:14:52] <zizban> heh
[19:15:09] * zizban is glad he escaped to NetBSD when he did
[19:15:51] <JJack> I don't know much about NetBSD. I know OpenBSD makes you paranoid though.
[19:16:21] <DraX> most of the problems effecting the bsds these days are the result of our willingness to accept linux braindamage
[19:16:23] <DraX> like HAL
[19:16:38] <DraX> and of course, not only do we get linux brain damage, but we get the old version of it
[19:16:47] <DraX> HAL is being replaced with DeviceKit, which is at least reasonable
[19:16:53] <mmu_man> udev wtf
[19:17:11] <mmu_man> DraX the name is nothing
[19:17:20] <DraX> the worst part is that at least freebsd has reasonable facilities for doing a lot of these things
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[19:17:30] <DraX> but they port the crapshoot instead of building tools that use the reasonable facilities
[19:17:42] <DraX> HAL _polls_ your hardware
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[19:17:52] <DraX> freebsd has a nice little notification domain for hardware changes
[19:18:00] <DraX> but yet they port HAL, polling and all
[19:18:02] <mmu_man> kevents or something
[19:18:11] <DraX> kevents is more like FD events
[19:18:12] <mmu_man> actually linux now has something alike
[19:18:15] <adamk> DraX: Well that's because they have oh...  One developer who handles most Xorg things..
[19:18:21] <DraX> adamk: not even
[19:18:34] <adamk> rnoland is my hero.
[19:18:43] <DraX> adamk: there are a bunch of people that handle gnome crap and they've let it infect the rest of the system
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[19:19:05] <DraX> it takes an iron-fist to install X without HAL crap now
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[19:19:23] <adamk> It takes one line in xorg.conf to tell Xorg not to use HAL for managing input devices.
[19:20:04] <adamk> And, of course, you are still welcome to use an xorg.conf to configure pretty much every aspect of Xorg.
[19:20:09] <zizban> FreeBSD went to requiring dbus and HAL for X.org
[19:20:20] <adamk> Again, it is not required.
[19:20:24] <zizban> NetBSD hasn't, thankfully
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[19:20:57] <zizban> I miss xorfconfig. The automatic tools are still not there (yet)
[19:21:16] <adamk> HAL and dbus are completely disabled on my FreeBSD machine here, yet it works flawlessly, so please stop spreading that misinformation.
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[19:22:13] <zizban> Hey, thats what I was told.!
[19:22:32] <zizban> people were complaing about it on #freebsd
[19:22:46] <zizban> personally, I don't care since I don't use FreeBSD.
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[19:23:43] <adamk> Yeah, half the folks on ##freebsd are quite helpful.  The other half don't know what they're talking about :-)
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[19:23:57] <zizban> Ya, I saw that ;)
[19:23:58] <adamk> Just don't tell them I said that :-)
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[19:24:18] <DraX> if you want to install from packages
[19:24:21] <DraX> you get hal/dbus instaled
[19:24:24] <DraX> you can make X not use them
[19:24:32] <DraX> but dbus is still started at boot
[19:24:42] <DraX> and anything else you install might use it
[19:24:51] <DraX> so if you really want to be dbus free, you have t compile all from ports
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[19:25:41] <DraX> i'd prefer to never have it within ten feet of my computer
[19:25:49] <HeTo> don't you pretty much have to compile everything from ports anyway, after the initial installation?
[19:26:01] <DraX> you can use packages
[19:26:05] <zizban> not always
[19:26:12] <DraX> the port build cluster used for regression testing port compiles
[19:26:18] <zizban> you just get the default install from the binaries
[19:26:38] <zizban> that's why I install from source on pkgsrc.
[19:26:56] <DraX> i hate installing from source
[19:27:02] <DraX> but i also hate what is the prevailing defaults
[19:27:07] <HeTo> yeah, and unless you always keep everything at the very latest version all the time, you'll have to compile stuff yourself because of breaking binary dependencies
[19:27:18] <adamk> I can't remember the last time I installed anything via packages on FreeBSD.
[19:27:22] <HeTo> when you wish to update stuff
[19:27:22] <adamk> Oh, except for OpenOffice.
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[19:27:28] <adamk> That never seems to build from ports for me.
[19:27:37] <DraX> upgrading is bad
[19:27:40] <zizban> I usually install wget and nano from packages
[19:27:41] <DraX> software always gets worse
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[19:28:22] <adamk> Not here.  I regularly update all the ports on my system.
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[19:28:31] <HeTo> DraX: which is why I usually don't update unless there are security vulnerabilities, or the newer versions have something new I need
[19:28:50] <DraX> which ends up requiring you to update a bunch of icky dependencies
[19:28:52] <DraX> ugh
[19:29:44] <HeTo> and then once or twice a year I update everything so that I won't have a hard time if I need to update something from an ancient version
[19:29:49] <adamk> I find that if I don't keep it up-to-date, and then decide I want to update something, it usually requires spending days updating 200-300 odd pieces of software.  I'd rather periodically update 20-30.
[19:29:59] <zizban> yes!
[19:30:13] <HeTo> but, esp. when I'm installing a security update, I don't want to update dozens of libraries at the same time
[19:30:51] <zizban> ya
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[19:31:24] <DraX> i find that i put off upgrading because whenever i od my system gets worse
[19:31:34] <DraX> like now X has this awesome feature where by it crashes when trying to open an Xv port
[19:31:53] <MYOB> I've just spent 30 seconds clicking frantically at the side of Pe only to remember I'm not using VB6
[19:31:54] <MYOB> oops
[19:33:36] <zizban> heh
[19:36:08] <MYOB> isn't going to be much help stepping over code either :P
[19:38:19] <zizban> X has that now? That's awesome ;)
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[19:38:59] <mmu_man> MYOB I tried to port the DontWorry BeIDE addon but it needs more work
[19:39:16] <CaptainPike> @mmu_man, during your next presentation, can you please remove your shoes then eat something you find on your foot?
[19:40:00] <MYOB> mmu_man I don't conciously remember what that did...
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[19:40:49] <zizban> I just want FreeCiv to work
[19:41:18] <mmu_man> CaptainPike ?
[19:42:36] <CaptainPike> I want Haiku to become as popular as Linux. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ
[19:43:16] <mmu_man> I'm not a penguin :p
[19:43:39] <MYOB> anyone care to remind me where the Deskbar folders are?
[19:43:40] <mmu_man> grr Flash™
[19:43:51] <mmu_man> MYOB ~/config/settings/be ?
[19:43:56] <mmu_man> or maybe not settings
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[19:45:04] <zizban> Flash sucks, Now that QT is ported we can get the new VLC that streams flash videos
[19:45:18] <zizban> I use it on NetBSD and it's awesome.
[19:45:48] <MYOB> zizban as the VLC porter here, no we can't... not unless I suddenly end up unemployed
[19:45:55] <mmu_man> zizban the old vlc does play flv
[19:46:01] <mmu_man> just not rtmp (sux)
[19:46:21] <mmu_man> MYOB let's all pray for this to happen :D
[19:46:41] <mmu_man> >:-)
[19:47:29] <zizban> Oh I know it does
[19:47:38] <zizban> But it doesn't stream it
[19:48:14] <MYOB> think its clean install time, bezilla will not open fully under any coercion now
[19:48:22] <zizban> yup
[19:48:53] <mmu_man> NetSurf :p
[19:49:18] <zizban> Aurora from the QTDemos!
[19:49:51] <Begasus> zizban ... around now
[19:49:59] <zizban> any other browsing pain aviable?
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[19:50:23] <zizban> Begasus Freeciv doesn't seem to work on Haiku
[19:50:28] <zizban> it would be cool if it did
[19:50:46] <Begasus> yeah .. been looking into a new port in the last days ...
[19:50:49] <mmadia> MYOB , i reported that issue.. seems 33770 is the most recent revision where bezilla loads properly everytime.
[19:50:53] <Begasus> running into some probs for the time being
[19:51:19] <zizban> ok
[19:51:25] <zizban> just checking
[19:51:40] <Begasus> yeah ... checked here too (I'm a port behind also) ;)
[19:51:49] <zizban> heh :)
[19:52:05] <Begasus> got it up on ZETA but haven't been able yet on Haiku
[19:52:14] <MYOB> mmadia ah, its not just me then
[19:52:24] <CIA-69> axeld * r33965 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/scheduler/scheduler_affine.cpp:
[19:52:24] <CIA-69> * Changed the affine scheduler to have more or less the same characteristics
[19:52:24] <CIA-69> as the BeOS scheduler. This makes MediaPlayer playback much better, as high
[19:52:24] <CIA-69> priority threads could lose their quantum to a worker thread twice in a row
[19:52:24] <CIA-69> with 4% probability before.
[19:52:25] <CIA-69> * I did not yet change the simple scheduler as well yet; maybe this isn't the
[19:52:29] <CIA-69> final one either.
[19:53:02] <zizban> I know it works on Zeta
[19:54:07] <MYOB> mmadia are you shouting enough about it? fairly serious problem
[19:55:23] <mmadia> ... there's only so much i can do.
[19:55:52] <MYOB> skweam and skwean until you're sick? :P
[19:55:59] <mmadia> i've narrowed the guilty revision down to 33771 thru 33777,
[19:56:02] <humdinger> hi mmadia.
[19:56:22] <mmadia> hi humdinger, i added StreaK|ON
[19:56:24] <humdinger> mmadia: Is it OK to send future language managers to you for wiki access?
[19:56:28] <humdinger> oh good
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[19:57:11] <mmadia> sure, that's one of the responsibilities i signed up for :)
[19:57:14] <StreaK|ON> ok, thx, mmadia
[19:57:28] <Begasus> bugger ... can't log into facebook due to SSL being disabled in BezillaBrowser ...
[19:57:30] <humdinger> cool. -->delegate
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[19:58:22] <mmadia> Begasus : did you try removing compreg.dat or even the entire profile directory?
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[20:00:02] <Begasus> yep mmadia ... no change
[20:00:33] <mmadia> did you delete boot/apps/BeZilla/ before unzipping the new one?
[20:01:02] <Begasus> hmm .. could be that I didn't ;)
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[20:02:19] <MYOB> seems I can't get it to open *at all* atm
[20:02:43] <MYOB> just sits hung with no windows
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[20:03:29] <mmadia> yup. that's why i'm still in 33770 :)
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[20:04:07] <mmadia> you may get lucky and it'll start properly -- but it seems random.
[20:04:07] <Begas_> expander crashed ....
[20:04:24] <MYOB> tempted to just go back to the alpha
[20:04:48] <pulkomandy> mh... Haiku build system is not compatible with gnu binutils gold. Just so you know (no one uses it yet anyway)
[20:07:31] <Begas_> hmm reboot
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[20:09:11] <Begasus> ow bugger ... nog firefox isn't starting at all anymore
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[20:10:08] <zizban> clean install!
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[20:12:57] <MYOB> race! lets see if the alpha downloads faster than it takes me to build R33770
[20:13:04] <zizban> heh!
[20:13:16] <MYOB> gettk
[20:13:20] <zizban> more excitement than I can stand around here
[20:13:29] <MYOB> getting anywhere from 30k to 120K
[20:13:34] <MYOB> 30K*
[20:13:37] <mmadia> http://haiku-files.org/raw/haiku-nightly-r33754-x86gcc2hybrid-raw.zip
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[20:13:59] <mmadia> the next newest is 33783 :|
[20:14:21] <zizban> I am using Alpha ! and I love it. off my lawn!
[20:14:33] <MYOB> wonder what the speed problem here is, Haiku or my BB provider
[20:14:41] <MYOB> 40-90K off Haiku Files there
[20:14:47] <MYOB> I've got 7.6Mbit...
[20:15:48] <JonathanThompson> Could also be the server you're connected to is busy/slow.
[20:16:05] <JonathanThompson> Or all the points between.
[20:16:35] <JonathanThompson> (One or more of all the points between)
[20:18:21] <Begasus> mmadia do you have a link to a 'working' BezillaBrowser? ;)
[20:18:37] <Begasus> or to the one that is in the alpha?
[20:18:56] <Begasus> should be a link up on the optional page for the alpha one I think
[20:19:58] <mmadia> http://haiku-files.org/files/optional-packages/BeZillaBrowser-2.0.0.22pre-x86-gcc2-2009-09-27.zip
[20:21:18] <Begasus> that's the one I have here atm ... and not working
[20:21:37] <mmadia> what revision are you running?
[20:21:56] <Begasus> I could tell you if I could start it ;)
[20:22:04] <mmadia> no, of Haiku :P
[20:22:07] <Begasus> but then again ... I wouldn't need another one :P
[20:22:11] <Begasus> ah .. the alpha
[20:22:17] <mmadia> really?
[20:22:26] <Begasus> yeah ;)
[20:22:37] <mmadia> http://haiku-files.org/files/optional-packages/BeZillaBrowser-2.0.0.22pre-r1a1-x86-gcc2-2009-09-08.zip
[20:22:41] <Begasus> thnx
[20:23:09] <mmadia> that build for R1A1 didn't include optimizations... there was a typo that disabled them.
[20:23:56] <humdinger> maybe that'S why I keep reading BeZilla takes half a minute to start. It's 5 seconds here.
[20:24:09] <humdinger> Firefox on Ubuntu however takes about 30 secs....
[20:24:34] <humdinger> that the "fast" Firefox 3.5 there....
[20:24:40] <Begasus> bugger .... looks like I scewd things up ;)
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[20:24:55] <Begasus> prOSy! ;)
[20:25:10] <prOSy> heya Begasus :)
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[20:27:59] <Begasus> oef .. got it back ... ;)
[20:28:02] <Begasus> thnx mmadia!
[20:28:05] <Begasus> 'lo AlienSoldier
[20:28:21] <AlienSoldier> Hi Begasus
[20:29:14] <MYOB> JonathanThompson HEANet's SF mirror was also slow
[20:29:18] <MYOB> and its ~20 miles away
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[20:29:57] <Begasus> yay ... got my browser back up few ;)
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[20:31:36] <luroh> i may not recall correctly here, but isn't SSL known to be b0rked in r1a1?
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[20:37:17] <JonathanThompson> Well, MYOB, I just had to hard reboot my iMac for the first time...
[20:37:32] <leszek> cu all
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[20:37:47] <JonathanThompson> Finder died, and Aqua died, it seems: it forgot how to handle keyboard input.
[20:38:07] <Begasus> howdy JonathanThompson
[20:38:12] <JonathanThompson> Howdy, Begasus.
[20:38:24] <JonathanThompson> Seems there's a few bugs they still need to squash in Snow Leopard :P
[20:38:40] <JonathanThompson> (At least, I *hope* it's Snow Leopard's fault, and not a dying hard drive)
[20:38:59] <JonathanThompson> Upon rebooting, the system decided it needed to reindex everything for Spotlight.
[20:39:18] <zizban> I gave up on the mac when leopard came out. I'm not into shades of gray for UI elements.
[20:39:54] <MYOB> zizban and you're using a BeOS derivative why? :P
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[20:40:19] <JonathanThompson> Touche´ MYOB ;)
[20:40:29] <zizban> I mean, the title bars, menu bars. Not the dialog buttons
[20:42:29] <MYOB> the download won
[20:42:42] <JonathanThompson> But you did not shoot the deputy?
[20:43:13] <JonathanThompson> (Yeah, a little bit of a jump from another song, and probably doesn't get played in the UK)
[20:43:43] <MYOB> I know I Shot The Sherriff, but I don't get the rest of the reference
[20:43:48] <MYOB> nor am I in the UK!
[20:44:19] <JonathanThompson> Or Ireland or any other area in that region ;)
[20:44:31] <JonathanThompson> "I fought the law, and the law won"
[20:44:38] <MYOB> our radio industry is far more modelled on the US than the UK's is
[20:44:57] <JonathanThompson> True, the BBC model doesn't exactly fly on average around the US.
[20:45:08] <MYOB> and The Clash's version of that would be well known
[20:45:12] <zizban> which is too bad since everything here is so much the same'
[20:45:19] <JonathanThompson> That, and there's no TV tax in the US, is there a radio receiver tax in the UK?
[20:45:32] <zizban> station to station, the same
[20:45:34] <MYOB> theres a TV licence in the UK
[20:45:41] <MYOB> and in pretty much every European nation
[20:45:51] <JonathanThompson> License/tax, no real meaningful difference in this case :p
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[20:46:32] <JonathanThompson> Is that paid yearly, or is it a one-time payment when you buy a new TV?
[20:46:39] <MYOB> it provides 5 full-time TV stations, 9 full time national radio stations and a rake of local stations ad-free in the UK though
[20:46:44] <MYOB> annually, one per househol
[20:47:13] <JonathanThompson> Well, I guess the big question is this: for that price, is that what the people that are forced to pay it, actually want?
[20:47:24] <zizban> that wouldn't fly here. people would see "tax" and panic
[20:47:30] <MYOB> here, being a hell of a lot smaller, it subsidises two fulltime TV stations and 9 fulltime radio stations, all national
[20:48:16] <MYOB> JonathanThompson the BBC has the highest market share in both TV and radio despite being outnumbered about 200:1 in TV and 2:1 in radio stations easily available
[20:48:56] <MYOB> siml
[20:48:58] <JonathanThompson> In which area are you stating that applies?  BBC has an american branch ;)
[20:49:03] <MYOB> UK
[20:49:14] <JonathanThompson> The big question, is why?
[20:49:26] <MYOB> similarly here RTE would dominate viewing, with the BBC second (we get it on overspill)
[20:49:33] <MYOB> programming quality and no bloody ads
[20:49:46] <JonathanThompson> The ads would be a big draw there.
[20:50:00] <zizban> BBC is digital here, which means you pay extra for BBC America
[20:50:02] <MYOB> even the commercial stations carry a fraction of the ads the US has
[20:50:04] <JonathanThompson> (or, rather, a lack of ads)
[20:50:11] <MYOB> zizban its digital in the UK also ;)
[20:50:24] <MYOB> and here, I'm getting on FTA satellite (in HD)
[20:51:04] <zizban> If I had a dish, I could get it for free
[20:51:18] <MYOB> UK's had over the air digital since 1997 I think, BBC's always been unencrypted on that; satellite unencrypted since 2003
[20:51:24] <zizban> But I pay for the digital channels
[20:51:27] <zizban> its worth it
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[20:51:50] <MYOB> I get the full UK lineup rather than the hacked down BBC Prime european service
[20:51:58] <MYOB> fairly standard here and the Netherlands to get the full thing
[20:52:29] <zizban> But we get Fox News ::snort::
[20:52:35] <MYOB> have that too, unfortunately
[20:52:50] <MYOB> comes on basic satellite
[20:52:59] <MYOB> yes, you're expected to pay for it...
[20:53:04] <zizban> ouch
[20:53:19] <MYOB> whereas CNN, Sky News, BBC News, Bloomberg are free
[20:53:35] <zizban> cool
[20:54:21] <MYOB> you only really need to pay here if you want to watch constant repeats on Discovery or Viacom's channels; or want premium sports and movies; or a decent range of HD
[20:55:06] <MYOB> two HD channels is a bit of an anemic service, but its better than the 1 I had for a long time
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[20:55:52] <zizban> interesting
[20:56:46] <MYOB> used to watch random German HD to justify the cost of the decoder
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[20:58:37] <zizban> We have random Mexican HD here
[20:59:34] <MYOB> that'd be more fun, I'd feel like I was in The Fast Show
[20:59:44] <zizban> eh
[21:00:14] <MYOB> British TV sketch comedy show
[21:00:18] <MYOB> one sketch was Chanel 9 Neus
[21:00:37] <MYOB> basically meant to be the low budget local TV stations you find when on holiday in Spain/Italy/etc
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[21:02:50] <MYOB> every episode had another fake infomercial for the 'gizmo' which appears to be some plumbing components and a satellite LNB painted red, but with a different use every week
[21:02:51] <zizban> OH
[21:03:00] <zizban> gotcha
[21:03:03] <zizban> siounds good
[21:03:20] <MYOB> worth youtubing some time
[21:04:11] <zizban> definately
[21:04:35] <MYOB> I'd expect cheap Mexican TV to be rather similar!
[21:04:52] <zizban> heh
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[21:12:33] <MYOB> going to reinstlal the alpah
[21:12:35] <MYOB> alpha
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[21:14:15] <zizban> Oh joy, cd player's volume doesn't work. I think I just woke up the next twenty cubicles over
[21:15:17] <DraX> who even uses cds anymore
[21:15:20] <DraX> your fault. :P
[21:15:36] <zizban> I was testing the CD player, actually.
[21:15:42] <zizban> There, that's more sane
[21:17:30] <zizban> Besides, without a Blondie CD what would life be?
[21:17:36] <zizban> Poorer, I say
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[21:26:40] <moochris> Has anyone got qemu running under Haiku alpha 1?
[21:29:39] <moochris> gdb reports a segment violation when I try running it
[21:30:21] <zizban> bad segment! bad!
[21:31:27] <moochris> indeed :)
[21:33:09] <DraX> anyone involved with osdrawer around?
[21:33:51] <mmadia> i'm not, but what's up DraX?
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[21:34:18] <DraX> mmadia: it no longer reports svn activity, and svn commit messages are not shown in the repository viewer after a certain point in time
[21:34:24] <DraX> i think it's related to their recent machine move
[21:34:40] <DraX> i know that colin couldn't commit ot haiku-wifi for quite a while because of the move
[21:34:43] <mmadia> yep, it is.
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[21:35:06] <DraX> it sucks
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[21:35:14] <DraX> i like to stalk the progress of qt-beos and haiku-wifi
[21:35:23] <DraX> and now I have to checkthem out to do that. :D
[21:35:23] <mmadia> pier was looking into why CIA & the ML's aren't working, but he hasn't figured it out yet.
[21:35:47] <DraX> becasue svn is an abomination? ;)
[21:36:03] <zizban> no, CVS is
[21:36:12] <mmadia> heh... they do support hg these days.
[21:36:16] <DraX> at least you know what to expect from cvs
[21:36:28] <DraX> svn promises so much, and gives so little
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[21:58:02] <Begasus> michaelvo! ;)
[21:59:00] <Hugen> sic, segv in JA2S on HaikuA1
[21:59:17] <michaelvo> hahahaha!
[21:59:29] <michaelvo> are testing ja2s already?
[22:00:40] <Hugen> how you see
[22:01:11] <Hugen> but RA and HOM&M2 work nice
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[22:18:06] <CIA-69> rudolfc * r33966 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
[22:18:06] <CIA-69> hopefully fixed NV44 (geforce 6100, 6150 and 6200) displaying trouble on analog
[22:18:06] <CIA-69> VGA connected screens on one output by using a workaround for a new unknown
[22:18:06] <CIA-69> register bit. Verified OK on a geforce 6200LE. Bumped version to 1.07.
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[22:21:58] <MYOB> mmadia is that nightly iso bootable? cause its not booting here...
[22:22:30] <mmadia> i don't personally test each image...only if it compiles.
[22:22:43] <MYOB> I assumed you'd used it when you linked me to it :P
[22:22:56] <Begasus> bugger ... running into a prob I've seen before in Freeciv ... Fatal error: you're trying to run me as superuser!
[22:23:08] <mmadia> i though i sent you a raw image & not an iso
[22:23:53] <MYOB> that... would be an issue
[22:24:06] <MYOB> mmadia I can't brain after work, generally :P
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[22:25:16] <CIA-69> axeld * r33967 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
[22:25:16] <CIA-69> * The pthread_thread structure is now allocated for all threads.
[22:25:16] <CIA-69> * Therefore, all pthread functions should now work fine on all threads.
[22:25:29] <MYOB> a day looking at VB = brain melted
[22:25:30] <Begasus> nice!
[22:26:26] * JonathanThompson freezes MYOB's brain
[22:26:58] <kirilla> just slightly out of shape
[22:27:36] <JonathanThompson> Shape?  Round is a shape!
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[22:29:03] <michaelvo> hahaha
[22:29:11] <DraX> pthread work... maybe for openjdk?
[22:29:13] * DraX hopes
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[22:29:50] <kirilla> Bachmann Returns! :))
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[22:30:07] <kirilla> Bachmann Forever?
[22:30:08] <DraX> he hasn't commited to hotspot in 11 days
[22:30:23] <DraX> i think because of pthread issues
[22:30:26] <kirilla> 11 days! the horror
[22:30:31] <michaelvo> helps a lot on port
[22:31:08] <kirilla> cool
[22:31:13] <mmadia> OpenJDK does use a distributed scm too
[22:31:20] <kirilla> I saw his bug/enhancement ticket on trac
[22:31:30] <kirilla> on pthreads
[22:31:40] <luroh> aye, 4888
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[22:32:25] <DraX> java would be so nice and shiny
[22:32:31] <kirilla> true, java would be nice
[22:32:56] <kirilla> java on a diet would be nice
[22:33:29] <DraX> java capable of running the our software at work
[22:33:31] <DraX> and compiling
[22:33:42] <DraX> s/the//
[22:34:44] <JonathanThompson> Remember one thing, DraX: "java" is a four-letter word ;)
[22:34:57] <DraX> trust me, i know
[22:35:00] * JonathanThompson waits for it
[22:35:07] <DraX> we regret the java decision every day
[22:35:24] <mmu_man> JonathanThompson so is BeOS
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[22:35:33] <kirilla> and lava
[22:35:38] <luroh> foss
[22:35:49] <JonathanThompson> Incorrect, mmu_man: that's 4 letters that's partially an acronym ;)
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[22:36:34] <JonathanThompson> Then again, so is... Unix, another four-letter word.
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[22:40:06] <TTUser> mmu_man How was the weekend?
[22:40:14] * TTUser DaneScott
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[22:40:30] <Begasus> DaneScott!
[22:40:36] <DaneScott> Begasus!
[22:40:55] <Begasus> how are you doing .. haven't seen you in a while
[22:41:13] <mmu_man> DaneScott very busy but very interesting, thx :)
[22:41:15] <DaneScott> Been doing fine.  Nothing too exciting, just all the usual stuff.  How 'bout you?
[22:41:45] <DaneScott> mmu_man Was it a Haiku demo opportunity or a coding get-together or ??
[22:42:00] <mmu_man> both actually
[22:42:07] <DaneScott> ic
[22:42:09] <mmu_man> it's an Alchimie :p
[22:42:34] * DaneScott assumes most people must know what that means.
[22:42:34] <Begasus> new job ... grandchild ... been busy here ;)
[22:42:39] <DaneScott> wooh
[22:42:42] <DaneScott> congrats
[22:42:42] <mmu_man> we had confs (including an Haiku one), a demo party, booths for robot makers and other vendors, and some local food producers
[22:42:45] <Begasus> thnx ;)
[22:43:06] <DaneScott> mmu_man where was it?
[22:43:18] <mmu_man> Tain l'hermitage (south of Lyon)
[22:43:24] <DaneScott> Begasus what's the new job?
[22:43:26] <mmu_man> you'll get a nice pic here: http://g3l.org/le_site/index.php?2009/11/07/275-g3l-en-direct-de-l-alchimie-2k9
[22:43:28] <DaneScott> mmu_man France?
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[22:43:53] <DaneScott> looks French alright
[22:44:04] <mmu_man> yep
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[22:44:27] <DaneScott> well, just doing a quick check-in...gotta get back to work...
[22:44:29] <DaneScott> ttyall later
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[22:46:24] <Begasus> and off he is ;)
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[23:00:00] <oco> hi
[23:00:22] <oco> mmu_man : lots of big screen at alchimie ;-)
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[23:00:38] <oco> it is no more the case at BeGeistert :-)
[23:00:56] <oco> there is no Amiga laptop ? ;-)
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[23:05:26] <MYOB> Begasus I never assumed you were old enough to have a grandkid :O
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[23:06:47] <Begasus> ;)
[23:07:00] <Begasus> not that far behind on koki ;)
[23:07:56] <mmu_man> oco yep :p
[23:08:04] <Begasus> k .. hopefully this will fix the root thing with freeciv ...
[23:08:06] <mmu_man> many Macs
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[23:10:18] <CIA-69> axeld * r33968 /haiku/trunk/ (202 files in 18 dirs):
[23:10:18] <CIA-69> * Ported libbind-6.0 to Haiku, and into our libnetwork.so.
[23:10:18] <CIA-69> * Got rid of the TLS/multi-thread hacks of the previous port.
[23:10:18] <CIA-69> * Took over irs/lcl_sv.cpp, and irs/lcl_ho.c, and irs/lcl_pr.c from the previous
[23:10:18] <CIA-69> version as they contain customizations.
[23:10:18] <CIA-69> * Removed unused files from libbind.
[23:10:22] <CIA-69> * Only barely tested, so beware.
[23:10:34] <Begasus> whoot!!! it works! ;)
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[23:11:37] <CIA-69> axeld * r33969 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/network/ping/ping.c:
[23:11:37] <CIA-69> * Fixed warnings.
[23:11:37] <CIA-69> * Automatic whitespace cleanup.
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[23:13:32] <kirilla> full freeciv goodness?
[23:15:16] <Begasus> well ... never played the thing as it should be played but it runs now yes ;)
[23:15:36] <kirilla> cool
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[23:17:43] <Begasus> http://www.flickr.com/photos/begasustro/4090318363/sizes/o/
[23:18:12] <kirilla> what's up with that linux tech show... is everyone on a phone line?
[23:18:50] <kirilla> s/is/was
[23:19:42] <kirilla> neat :)
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[23:22:15] <Begasus> grep can be a lifesaver at times ;)
[23:22:26] <kirilla> heh
[23:22:31] <kirilla> yay for grep!
[23:22:34] <MYOB> just watched the execution of Gary Glitter....
[23:22:40] <MYOB> ...unfortunately its a drama on C4
[23:22:47] <kirilla> execution?
[23:23:02] <Begasus> amiga already had that option in configure ... only had to add one for Haiku in there based on the one from Amiga ;)
[23:23:34] <MYOB> kirilla its a mock-documentary drama about what'd happen if the UK reintroduced the death penalty (as a small majority want)
[23:25:40] <kirilla> sounds interesting in theory
[23:25:59] <kirilla> the movie, not the death penalty
[23:26:18] <MYOB> very well made, C4 do drama quite well
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[23:28:30] <MYOB> they need to knock out a few decent dramas every winter to make up for using 800 hours of programming time on Big Brother every summer
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[23:33:33] <kirilla> I wouldn't mind seeing Swedish public-service television spend a lot less on entertainment now that there's a perfectly good working market.
[23:33:52] <kirilla> but apparently it's some kind of cultural fortress
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[23:35:06] <MYOB> your TV industry is regulated to death isn't it?
[23:35:14] <MYOB> hence all the Swedish channels operating out of London
[23:35:38] <MYOB> Viasat et al
[23:36:30] <MYOB> most of our "new" stations during the boom were UK licenced, they've nearly all gone out of business or been repatriated by takeovers nw
[23:36:49] <kirilla> our TV4 does operate from Sweden, I think.. and they are financed by ads
[23:37:23] <kirilla> SVT (public service) can't show any ads though, but they're financed by tax and a fee for owning a tuner/receiver
[23:38:06] <luroh> ...except for sports and whatever else they decide to get "sponsorship" for
[23:38:20] <kirilla> yeah..
[23:38:26] <kirilla> I wish they'
[23:38:39] * luroh just got fed up one day and threw out his tv
[23:39:09] <kirilla> I wish SVT would just focus on a very narrow form of public service
[23:39:24] <luroh> agree
[23:39:44] <MYOB> most public service broadcasters appear to have forgotten theyre meant to serve the bits not served by anyone else
[23:39:55] <MYOB> RTE here import UK content even though 80% of us get UK TV
[23:40:05] <kirilla> heh
[23:40:09] <MYOB> and 100% can get it if they actually want to (FTA satellite)
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[23:41:25] <MYOB> TV3 do the same but they're private and have a cheap line in to ITV UK shows because ITV used to own 45%
[23:41:48] <Begasus> there ... job is done for today ... early day tomorrow
[23:41:50] <Begasus> g'night peeps
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[23:42:22] <kirilla> I guess the internet will replace television from the ground up... but it would have been nice to have local channels with -good- local content, as opposed to no content and in shitty quality
[23:42:29] <luroh> nite Begasus
[23:42:50] <MYOB> kirilla the UK had that until Maggie Thatcher destroyed the regulatory system to punish one local franchiser for a documentary they made
[23:43:05] <kirilla> the iron lady :P
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[23:43:46] <MYOB> they had a loose network of channels that produced a common output but with lots of local optouts; one franchise (Thames) made a documentary critical of the government ("Death on the Rock") so she forced the regulatory system to be changed to ensure Thames didn't get a licence
[23:44:07] <MYOB> the licence system was changed from a 'beauty contest' to a pure cash auction at the same time
[23:44:25] <MYOB> basically killed the idea of ITV as a local network
[23:44:55] <kirilla> grr
[23:45:09] <MYOB> nearly all the franchisers merged in to one mega company leaving only the peripheral regions alone
[23:45:43] <MYOB> most of Scotland; Northern Irelands region and the Channel Islands region aren't in the mega-mess; the NI one because it makes most of its ad revenue off cable in Ireland
[23:45:52] <MYOB> 4.1M audience vs. 1.4M audience
[23:46:45] <luroh> i wouldn't be surprised if the internet will suffer a similar fate some day
[23:46:53] <MYOB> fragmentation?
[23:47:14] <MYOB> or all operatores making a mega-mess?
[23:47:46] <luroh> no, general degradation from something interesting and worthwhile to something just crappy
[23:48:09] <MYOB> well, thats been happening for some time
[23:48:10] <kirilla> we'll always have fidonet :}
[23:48:19] <luroh> be it the net neutrality issue or something else, everything has its peak
[23:49:36] <MYOB> could easily be spam that kills it yet
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[23:51:02] <luroh> it'll be the sum of many steps, i think
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[23:51:20] <MYOB> or suddenly hitting a wall in what capacity we can jam on to trans-atlantic links with newer optical encoders etc
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[23:51:58] <MYOB> I can just about remember the days when HEANET forced colleges to give every student in Ireland an email address to try and reduce the amount of hits to hotmail on its 1Mbit trans-atlantic pipe
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[23:52:30] <luroh> hehe :)
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[23:53:04] <MYOB> the first public ISP linked people across a 64kbit carrier to the US and on to the 'net there
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[23:53:26] <MYOB> being an island meant fairly shitty net links until people started using the west coast as a fibre landing point
[23:53:53] <luroh> ah, makes sense
[23:54:25] <luroh> welp, time to hit the sack
[23:54:34] <luroh> g'nite and http://twitter.com/big_ben_clock :)
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[23:54:50] <MYOB> I should head off at some stage also cause I've got a 260km drive tomorrow
[23:56:03] <MYOB> oh, 297km actually
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   November 9, 2009  
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