November 3, 2009 
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November 3, 2009 [00:02:26] *** netstar has joined #haiku[00:02:40] <netstar> Does anyone know a workaround for the marvell yukon problems?[00:04:12] <netstar> I'm going to experiment bbs. only got one cable[00:04:22] *** netstar has left #haiku[00:13:43] *** aldeck has quit IRC[00:20:41] *** diogen[ru] has joined #haiku[00:21:06] *** netstar_ has joined #haiku[00:21:19] *** Barrett has quit IRC[00:21:19] *** netstar_ is now known as netstar[00:23:07] *** Andrius has quit IRC[00:23:40] <netstar> Hmmm[00:23:51] <netstar> I am experimenting with marvell yukon[00:23:59] <netstar> mixed results[00:24:41] <luroh> netstar: a 10 Mb hub or switch might help, if you have one lying around[00:24:49] <netstar> I guessed that[00:25:12] <netstar> I think crossover is 10baseT right?[00:25:29] <netstar> I had a 10MB hub[00:25:34] <netstar> YEARS ago[00:25:40] <netstar> and even then it was archaic[00:25:48] <netstar> you can't change media either with ifconfig[00:25:54] <netstar> I would like to force 10baseT[00:26:02] <netstar> am I still here?[00:26:05] <luroh> yep[00:26:07] <netstar> wow[00:26:13] <netstar> we are making progress[00:27:17] <luroh> i'm not sure what you mean by crossover...crossover cable?[00:27:56] <JonathanThompson> He's got Jennifer Love Hewitt in a box, luroh :)[00:29:53] <luroh> sorry, that one went right over my head, JonathanThompson[00:30:13] <JonathanThompson> There's a series called "Ghost Whisperer" starring her.[00:30:32] <JonathanThompson> Typically, by the end of the episode, she tells the ghost(s) to crossover.[00:30:38] <netstar> am I here?[00:30:41] <luroh> oh, i see[00:30:50] * luroh doesn't watch tv[00:30:51] <JonathanThompson> She's someone who sees dead people ;)[00:31:01] <luroh> netstar: yes[00:31:26] *** fly-away has quit IRC[00:32:37] <luroh> i'll leave you to play peek-a-boo with netstar now, JonathanThompson :)[00:32:40] <luroh> g'nite[00:32:47] *** luroh has quit IRC[00:32:48] <JonathanThompson> Seeya, luroh :)[00:32:53] <JonathanThompson> (Too slow)[00:35:10] *** noisetonepause has quit IRC[00:39:46] *** netstar_ has joined #haiku[00:40:30] *** netstar has quit IRC[00:44:50] *** netstar_ has quit IRC[00:46:00] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[00:48:53] *** ukev has quit IRC[00:49:52] *** euank has joined #haiku[00:52:33] <euank> What features are implemented in our ACPI module? Just wondering as my laptop doesn't boot with it selected, and one of my radeon bug reports seems to have magically solved itself. It had been suspected that the radeon bug was due to no ACPI (backlight on laptop didn't work)?[00:53:05] <JonathanThompson> Magical bugs are always the most lovely bugs :)[00:53:12] <JonathanThompson> (I can't comment beyond that)[00:54:38] <euank> meh[00:55:13] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[00:55:18] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[00:57:30] <mmadia> euank, keep an eye out for tqh -- he did some recent work on acpi[00:59:37] <euank> thanks[01:01:20] *** [1]umccullough has joined #haiku[01:01:25] *** [1]umccullough_t has joined #haiku[01:01:30] *** MegafHaiku has quit IRC[01:02:25] *** DraX has quit IRC[01:02:35] *** DraX has joined #haiku[01:07:34] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[01:09:50] *** mortuosplango has quit IRC[01:10:31] *** oco has quit IRC[01:19:30] *** umccullough_tv has quit IRC[01:19:30] *** umccullough has quit IRC[01:19:30] *** [1]umccullough_t is now known as umccullough_tv[01:19:30] *** [1]umccullough is now known as umccullough[01:23:37] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[01:28:08] *** mvfranz has joined #haiku[01:29:45] *** cb88 has joined #haiku[01:32:09] *** HaikUbuntu has quit IRC[01:35:29] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[01:37:57] *** netstar has joined #haiku[01:38:39] <netstar> is there anyway to force media to 10baseT?[01:38:55] <netstar> it says 'operation not supported'[01:43:09] *** netstar has quit IRC[01:43:39] <euank> maybe done via ifconfig?[01:44:00] <euank> what network adapter?[01:44:15] <mmadia> <netstar> Does anyone know a workaround for the marvell yukon problems?[01:45:03] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[01:45:11] <euank> what time was that posted?[01:45:30] <euank> I noticed the other day that the IRC log at loads more posts that I see on my pc????[01:46:18] <mmadia> sometime earlier tonight... echelog should have an exact timestamp.[01:47:13] <euank> 20 mins before I joined :)[01:47:46] *** netstar has joined #haiku[01:48:26] <netstar> Hi again, regarding marvell yukon, can I make Haiku go into 10baseT mode, it says not supported, any help?[01:48:47] *** amuck_ has quit IRC[01:48:49] <netstar> I'm relying on IRC as anything large will kill the connection[01:49:00] <JonathanThompson> Don't know what to tell you.[01:49:10] <euank> u good at hacking drivers?[01:49:10] *** miqlas has quit IRC[01:49:11] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps you can check if there's a bug report about that, and if not, file one.[01:49:24] <netstar> euank as it happens yes[01:49:35] <JonathanThompson> Wait, you want it to go down to 10baseT???[01:49:44] <euank> you could probably hack the driver to do si if it's not supported via api[01:49:45] * JonathanThompson notes that's really slow ;)[01:50:18] <JonathanThompson> Can you upgrade the connected hardware to go faster? That might be your sanest solution :P[01:50:19] <euank> PHY_CT_SP10[01:50:41] <netstar> JonathanThompson are you from scotland?[01:50:47] <JonathanThompson> Nope.[01:50:49] <netstar> okay[01:50:54] <JonathanThompson> Well, family history, yes....[01:50:57] <euank> 8-) I am[01:51:09] * JonathanThompson isn't sure how that's relevant[01:51:16] <cb88> yes it is a good idea to overclock you network card[01:51:19] * cb88 hides[01:51:38] <netstar> if only I had some old cable[01:51:58] <cb88> uh what is the diffence with new cable?[01:52:03] * JonathanThompson throws Flue Powder on top of cb88 and makes him disappear into a random location with angry dragons[01:52:13] <cb88> nnnoooo[01:52:32] <euank> have a look in msk_miibus_statchg()[01:52:41] <mmadia> 10baseT only needs 2pair, iirc.[01:52:57] <cb88> ic...[01:52:58] <netstar> I can't get the code onto this box to do it[01:53:05] <euank> haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/marvell_yukon/dev/msk/if_msk.c[01:53:06] <euank> ah[01:53:25] <euank> what u connecting at currently?[01:53:31] <euank> 10, 100, or 1000[01:53:36] <euank> 10, and 100 both use 2 pair[01:53:41] <netstar> 100 but it's bogus[01:53:44] <mmadia> maybe 99 :P[01:54:08] <netstar> any large chunks and it spews and I have to reboot[01:54:22] <euank> set your MRU to something small?[01:54:34] <netstar> what do you suggest?[01:54:36] <netstar> I tried that[01:54:46] <euank> 750, then 400, then 200...[01:54:51] <euank> 1500 is around normal[01:55:05] <euank> of course it depends where in the driver the problem is[01:55:12] <euank> might make no difference[01:55:39] <euank> I'm sure this has been a lonn ongoing issue with the marvel yukon stuff[01:55:44] <euank> *long[01:56:32] <netstar> I'll try your suggestions[01:56:34] <netstar> thanks[01:56:35] <netstar> man[01:57:10] *** netstar has quit IRC[01:58:37] <mmadia> *sniff* OSDrawer's down[01:58:54] <euank> maybe washing it's dirty socks[01:59:39] *** netstar_ has joined #haiku[01:59:47] <netstar_> minimum MTU is 501[02:00:18] <euank> have a look in msk_ioctl() it seems to suggest what else can be tinkered with[02:00:24] <netstar_> I can't[02:00:28] <netstar_> I have one cable[02:00:35] <netstar_> and one port[02:00:36] <euank> I'm not upto speed on what ifconfig can do[02:00:38] <netstar_> no switch[02:00:56] <euank> ok let me google...[02:00:59] <netstar_> thanks[02:01:17] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[02:01:33] <netstar_> I know it's an unresolved bug, modified 3 days ago but a workaround would be nice[02:02:19] <euank> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1903[02:02:21] <netstar_> If I could hack the kernel code I would, I'm an ex kernel hacker, but my hardware situation is okay but not good enough for hacking kernels[02:02:26] <netstar_> what does it say[02:02:30] *** joeyadams has quit IRC[02:02:34] <netstar_> www will kill my connection[02:02:37] <euank> Yesterday I have asked on IRC about possibility to switch network media to some non-default value under Haiku. mmu_man was so kind that very quickly added media selection option into ifconfig. Following tests and comments in commits e-mail list show me that the problem is a bit deeper. :-)[02:02:43] <euank> I register this ticket just to document "media option" issue. At the moment this looks like a bug: option is available for user selection in ifconfig but is not supported by Haiku network. Should we rollback media option changes or finish media change possibility in Haiku network?[02:02:53] <euank> The solution is manual change of media type to 10 MBit. This fixes my problem. At the moment I have hardcoded 10 MBit media mode in my local copy of Haiku rtl8139 driver. I can use and test network under Haiku now so this problem is not urgent or significant for me. ;-)[02:03:35] <euank> I could probably hack the driver for you and sent it to you, but you'd have to piece it to gether in100byte chunks over IRC....[02:03:36] <euank> :)[02:03:50] <netstar_> lol[02:04:00] <netstar_> would it take you long?[02:04:06] <netstar_> because I have other machines I could copy from[02:04:10] <netstar_> just one cable![02:04:19] <euank> it would take me longer to find out where to put the hack[02:04:48] <netstar_> okay I'll aim for that, tomorrow I'll get my behemoth 1GHZ P3 on the go and start hacking[02:05:49] <euank> you might want to also see if you can find some stats on the interface, perhaps it's a jumbo packet code issue, hw checksumming error, or something unrelated to media type?[02:06:11] *** GonoszTopi has quit IRC[02:07:28] <euank> IFCAP_RXCSUM capability is intentionally disabled as the hardware[02:07:28] <euank> has serious bug in Rx checksum offload for all Yukon II family[02:07:28] <euank> hardware. It seems there is a workaround to make it work somtimes.[02:07:36] <euank> exceprt from the driver[02:08:54] <netstar_> okay will test that out a b c d etc[02:09:02] *** netstar_ has quit IRC[02:13:32] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[02:14:49] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[02:17:51] *** netstar has joined #haiku[02:18:15] *** adamk_ has quit IRC[02:21:08] *** netstar has quit IRC[02:21:57] *** ari-free has quit IRC[02:22:56] *** euank has left #haiku[02:30:44] *** triplez has quit IRC[02:31:51] *** diogen[ru] has quit IRC[02:40:07] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[02:50:57] *** triplez has joined #haiku[02:58:01] *** paul0 has joined #haiku[03:30:12] *** Disreali has quit IRC[03:38:29] *** Geoz has quit IRC[03:47:29] *** cb88 has quit IRC[03:51:28] *** oxocoffee has quit IRC[03:58:09] *** thotypous has quit IRC[03:59:20] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[04:00:58] *** jprostko has joined #haiku[04:01:51] *** RandomInsano has joined #haiku[04:05:25] *** codemac has left #haiku[04:11:45] *** RandomInsano has quit IRC[04:12:14] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku[04:13:36] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC[04:13:52] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku[04:18:26] *** mattlacey has joined #haiku[04:24:12] *** netstar has joined #haiku[04:25:33] *** netstar has left #haiku[04:27:57] *** netstar has joined #haiku[04:38:14] *** amuck has quit IRC[04:38:38] *** amuck has joined #haiku[04:41:33] *** skarmiglione has left #haiku[04:48:27] *** mmadia has quit IRC[04:53:40] *** umccullough_tv has quit IRC[04:56:36] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[05:04:58] *** netstar has quit IRC[05:06:00] *** dralston has joined #haiku[05:09:18] *** knottnhupfer has joined #haiku[05:14:37] *** knottnhupfer has quit IRC[05:14:43] *** knottnhupfer has joined #haiku[05:27:02] *** mvfranz has quit IRC[05:36:26] *** paul0 has quit IRC[05:41:46] *** HaikuCoder has joined #haiku[05:42:08] <HaikuCoder> I trashed my belkin 54g wap[05:42:13] <HaikuCoder> I have no idea how[05:42:19] <HaikuCoder> it just broke[05:43:56] *** HaikuCoder has quit IRC[05:52:00] *** HaikUbuntu has joined #haiku[05:54:22] <michaelvo> have a problem with fminf and fmaxf funcions[05:54:34] <michaelvo> our posix/math.h doesn't implement them[06:04:19] *** prOSy has joined #haiku[06:16:09] *** amuck has quit IRC[06:18:27] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[06:23:49] *** kallisti5 has joined #haiku[06:24:49] <kallisti5> FYI, I've uploaded a copy of the Qt4 Libraries I compiled this evening and a copy of the Qt based Arora web browser to haikufire[06:24:51] *** DarthShrine has joined #haiku[06:24:55] <kallisti5> http://haikufire.com/?appid=xqNyrf7CO1BCw5TIDiubO9ylp0HmRg3E[06:25:26] *** DarthShrine has left #haiku[06:25:38] <kallisti5> feel free to let me know if they don't work[06:36:48] <michaelvo> thanks kallistic5[06:41:54] *** prOSy has quit IRC[06:42:05] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[06:50:21] *** ari-free has joined #haiku[06:54:28] *** mattlacey has quit IRC[06:56:50] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[07:02:34] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[07:03:03] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[07:12:23] *** nutela has joined #haiku[07:12:38] *** jmayfield__ has joined #haiku[07:13:24] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[07:15:45] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC[07:23:30] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[07:31:37] *** nutela has quit IRC[07:38:08] *** dralston has quit IRC[07:38:19] *** redblue has joined #haiku[07:39:42] *** redblue has quit IRC[07:41:34] *** redblue has joined #haiku[07:41:43] *** Andrius has joined #haiku[07:47:25] *** nutela has joined #haiku[07:55:41] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[07:56:22] *** [Katisu] has joined #haiku[07:57:01] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[07:57:08] *** miqlas has quit IRC[08:02:07] *** KE7TMA has joined #haiku[08:02:18] <KE7TMA> hey yall[08:02:32] <KE7TMA> anybody know how to define a custom resolution?[08:02:51] <KE7TMA> I have been poking around all over the place and can't seem to find a config file for that[08:04:03] <cherrypie> pretty quiet here at the moment, so you'll have to sit n wait a bit or you can try post on the forums[08:04:13] <KE7TMA> oh sure[08:04:15] <KE7TMA> not a problem[08:04:24] <KE7TMA> haiku sure is a heck of a thing though[08:04:35] <KE7TMA> i downloaded a bunch of apps from bebits[08:04:43] <KE7TMA> they all ran without issue[08:05:15] <cherrypie> nice :) yeah has a lot of potential[08:05:57] <KE7TMA> well it seems perfect for netbooks[08:06:08] <KE7TMA> years ago i used beos as my main OS[08:06:13] <KE7TMA> for like 2 years[08:06:15] <michaelvo> ;)[08:06:21] <michaelvo> very cool[08:06:22] <cherrypie> same here[08:06:23] <KE7TMA> it was awesome[08:06:41] <KE7TMA> actually my hard drive died and I didn't have one big enough for windows 95[08:06:49] <KE7TMA> so my buddy said, here, try *this*[08:06:57] <cherrypie> I pop a copy of haiku in a vm every couple months and play for a bit[08:07:00] <KE7TMA> windows 98 rather[08:07:07] <cherrypie> yeah BeOS was great in those days[08:07:07] <KE7TMA> yeah i have it going in vbox now[08:07:14] <cherrypie> not much as missing[08:07:24] <KE7TMA> it looks and feels damn near identical[08:07:27] <cherrypie> as = was[08:07:42] <KE7TMA> well, i had everything I needed[08:07:54] <cherrypie> yep[08:08:11] <KE7TMA> it was kind of nice, going from windoze to an austere OS like beos[08:08:25] <KE7TMA> after I could afford a new hard drive ;-)[08:08:35] <KE7TMA> I went straight to freebsd[08:08:50] <KE7TMA> this is after it was pretty clear that damn french guy was intent on running BeOS into the ground[08:09:02] <KE7TMA> then to the mac, where i remain even now[08:09:44] <cherrypie> lol yeah I went windows -> linux -> beos -> linux -> OS X[08:10:51] <cherrypie> been on the mac since 03 or so, never really missed life in x11 but I still miss BeOS[08:11:50] <cherrypie> the mac gave me what I wanted, a sensible ui with a sensible cli, which was why I like BeOS so much[08:12:26] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[08:13:16] *** ari2-free has joined #haiku[08:16:50] *** DocPheniX has quit IRC[08:17:04] *** DocPheniX has joined #haiku[08:17:33] <cherrypie> may have to try haiku on my netbook now that you've put the idea in my head :)[08:25:40] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[08:26:30] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[08:28:08] *** mattlacey has joined #haiku[08:31:50] *** HaikUbuntu has quit IRC[08:36:33] <KE7TMA> heh[08:36:35] <KE7TMA> excellent[08:36:42] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[08:36:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o aldeck[08:36:43] <KE7TMA> yeah, mac has a decent gui[08:37:02] <KE7TMA> i like it because it has one of the better API sets out there[08:37:09] <KE7TMA> nothing touches smalltalk, though[08:40:09] *** mattlacey has quit IRC[08:40:30] *** jmayfield__ has quit IRC[08:40:33] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[08:42:16] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[08:42:59] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[08:46:10] *** nutela has quit IRC[08:55:19] <OmniMancer> evil evil smalltalk[08:55:22] <OmniMancer> :P[08:56:09] <m0ns00n> Morning[08:56:19] <KE7TMA> evil smalltalk?[08:56:28] <KE7TMA> that's crazy talk[08:56:36] <KE7TMA> now, c++, that's evil ;-)[08:57:02] <KE7TMA> what did Alan Kay say? "I invented the term 'Object-Oriented' and c++ is not what I had in mind"[08:57:44] <OmniMancer> well the inventor of the word does not have claim to its use :P[08:57:52] *** fcr has quit IRC[08:58:02] <KE7TMA> no but c++ is a pain in the ass[08:58:39] <OmniMancer> it gives you fast small code while still having reletively high level features[08:59:25] <KE7TMA> yeah but it's hardly object oriented[08:59:33] <KE7TMA> you can call a function an object bot that doesn't make it one[09:00:31] <OmniMancer> there is a difference between pure object orientation and object orientation[09:00:34] *** Zaranthos has quit IRC[09:01:08] <OmniMancer> C++ never calls a function an object[09:02:42] <aldeck> well you can make a function object if you want[09:03:10] <OmniMancer> if you like but it doesn't have to be[09:03:19] <OmniMancer> but in C++ functions are not objects[09:03:21] <aldeck> if you need it, i mean :)[09:03:22] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[09:03:30] <OmniMancer> you can have objects that can be treated as functions though[09:03:45] <aldeck> what i'm saying :)[09:04:06] *** KE7TMA has quit IRC[09:05:01] <OmniMancer> there is an important distinction[09:05:07] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[09:05:11] <OmniMancer> but not all languages have to have everything as an object[09:05:21] <OmniMancer> common lisp is an interesting language though :P[09:07:10] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[09:07:31] *** Zaranthos has joined #Haiku[09:11:09] * JonathanThompson wonders what the object of this discussion is oriented towards :P[09:11:16] <JonathanThompson> And what function does it serve???[09:11:33] * MrSunshine_ needs to make motor mountings for his cnc mill ... sigh )[09:11:39] <MrSunshine_> why cant the motors just go on there and voila :P[09:11:52] <JonathanThompson> What would be the fun in THAT?[09:11:59] <MrSunshine_> JonathanThompson, that i could start milling =)[09:12:14] <MrSunshine_> and now ive fucked up the leadscrews so i cant do manual milling either with it :P[09:12:17] <JonathanThompson> That is, the motors just going right in there :)[09:12:36] * JonathanThompson hands MrSunshine_ an "I'm clearly an idiot" award[09:12:46] <JonathanThompson> Those are very important parts of CNC mills![09:12:57] <MrSunshine_> JonathanThompson, nah ... ive taken them down so they can fit in the motors couplings =)[09:13:10] <MrSunshine_> but now the manual stuff doesnt fit on them =)[09:13:24] * JonathanThompson worked for a CNC machine manufacturer on control software for 3.5 years[09:14:17] <MrSunshine_> oh =)[09:14:18] <MrSunshine_> cool :)[09:14:29] * MrSunshine_ is converting a Seig X1 micro mill =)[09:14:41] <JonathanThompson> The last project I was on was a press brake application.[09:15:04] <JonathanThompson> I was in charge of overall design, and code review, and responsible for making it designed for test.[09:15:20] <JonathanThompson> No cyclic dependencies in over 200,000 lines of code as of the time I was laid off.[09:15:24] <MrSunshine_> sooo, then you write us a cnc software native to haiku ? :)[09:15:34] * JonathanThompson laughs[09:16:10] <JonathanThompson> I had contemplated trying to consider BeOS at the time for such sorts of things....[09:16:36] <JonathanThompson> BeOS was in no way nearly as good/stable for that as truly needed, though, because BeOS handles errors with a "Hell if I care!" attitude.[09:16:49] <JonathanThompson> Error? Bah, I'll just puke![09:16:51] <MrSunshine_> hehe =)[09:17:30] <JonathanThompson> I don't know what you're using for software, but we used OpenGL for a lot of the system.[09:17:33] <OmniMancer> JT: what happens if you specify a library twice on the linker invocation?[09:17:43] <MrSunshine_> JonathanThompson, emc2 to run the mill[09:17:43] <JonathanThompson> It gets looked at twice.[09:17:54] <JonathanThompson> You may need to do that if there's a cyclic dependency.[09:18:09] *** glootech has quit IRC[09:18:11] <JonathanThompson> If there isn't one, it's a NOP, effectively.[09:18:52] <OmniMancer> okay so you can handle cyclic library dependencies?[09:18:52] <JonathanThompson> Unless, of course, you're doing something wonky with having more than one lib with the same name, but they aren't binary duplicates.[09:19:02] <JonathanThompson> Yes, that's how you MUST handle them.[09:19:32] <JonathanThompson> There is NO other way.[09:20:28] <OmniMancer> k[09:20:42] <JonathanThompson> (Though far preferable to not EVER have cyclic dependencies of any type by design)[09:21:17] <JonathanThompson> If you ever find yourself needing to list a lib twice, see if you can figure out how to break things up so there's no cycle.[09:21:22] <JonathanThompson> Do it ASAP.[09:21:30] <JonathanThompson> Those things just get bigger and harrier.[09:22:50] <OmniMancer> is there any problem that is solved most cleanly by cyclic stuff?[09:23:04] <JonathanThompson> No, not really.[09:23:11] <OmniMancer> we shall have to find one[09:23:27] <JonathanThompson> If you're going to do some cyclic stuff, make sure it's entirely a class-within-a-class.[09:23:58] <JonathanThompson> The Visitor pattern is a case of a pattern that's inherently cyclic.[09:24:07] <JonathanThompson> But I maintain there's better ways of doing things.[09:24:37] <JonathanThompson> Part of the problem with the Visitor pattern (besides being cyclic) is it has a combinatorial explosion problem when you add more classes.[09:25:42] * JonathanThompson sincerely hopes OmniMancer is joking[09:25:54] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps time travel code ;)[09:27:18] <JonathanThompson> Here's another thing to think about, OmniMancer: if you have cyclic code, and there's more than one thread, that's going to make it far easier to find a way to deadlock or have race conditions.[09:28:13] <OmniMancer> indeed[09:28:22] <OmniMancer> I was being sarcastic[09:28:23] <JonathanThompson> Oh, BTW: the structure of the BeOS C++ GUI API? Cyclic.[09:28:34] <OmniMancer> and joking[09:28:41] <OmniMancer> its cyclic?[09:28:44] <JonathanThompson> Ask AKA JackBurton about the mess that's caused him for dealing with menuing.[09:28:47] <JonathanThompson> No joke.[09:29:00] <JonathanThompson> Look in BeOS headers, note all the friend declarations.[09:29:09] <JonathanThompson> Everything seems to be connected to BApplication.[09:29:25] <JonathanThompson> All those private methods? Absolutely horrible way to do things in a public API.[09:29:55] <JonathanThompson> If you need things to be public at all to other classes at a theoretically lower level of the hierarchy, you've screwed the pooch.[09:30:19] <JonathanThompson> There are huge numbers of friend declarations in the headers.[09:30:49] <JonathanThompson> Friend declarations have good uses, but not how they're used mostly in the BeOS C++ API.[09:31:50] <JonathanThompson> I don't know if things have been changed notably in Haiku for the AppKit and other classes for all those things.[09:32:05] <JonathanThompson> (I've not looked at things in a very long while)[09:32:26] <OmniMancer> can't change the structure?[09:32:32] <JonathanThompson> However, it's interesting to note: friend declarations have absolutely no bearing on binary compatibility.[09:32:51] <JonathanThompson> There's ways they could do it, if they think it through, to fix a lot of it.[09:33:00] <JonathanThompson> Or, I think there may be.[09:33:07] <JonathanThompson> But I suspect maybe not.[09:33:24] <OmniMancer> well the beauty of C++ is that some things are compiler only[09:33:54] <JonathanThompson> But, the abstraction is just naturally cyclic how they designed it for BeOS.[09:34:12] <JonathanThompson> BMenus are horribly cyclic in their relation to everything.[09:34:19] <OmniMancer> :([09:34:27] <JonathanThompson> As a result, there's one distinct bug that pops up in using them in BeOS I hated.[09:34:32] <OmniMancer> having to have stuff lock a BAppilcation sounds bad to me[09:34:47] <JonathanThompson> It is.[09:35:02] <JonathanThompson> The only thing that should ever lock a BApplication is itself and main().[09:35:18] *** DocPheniX has quit IRC[09:35:48] <OmniMancer> things should only lock things they own or use[09:35:54] <JonathanThompson> Exactly.[09:36:02] <JonathanThompson> And if there's a cycle, all bets are off.[09:36:19] <OmniMancer> because you could end up calling something that is locked[09:36:26] <JonathanThompson> Correct, that can happen.[09:36:51] <OmniMancer> yay for hanging :D[09:37:06] <JonathanThompson> Now, a method to avoid that would be for the upper level item to hand a signal object to the lower level object to raise the Bat Signal.[09:37:08] *** joshc has joined #haiku[09:37:25] <JonathanThompson> Then, when the higher level object notes that signal has been set, it locks and queries the lower level object.[09:38:09] <OmniMancer> hmmm[09:38:14] <JonathanThompson> That signal could be a BMessage, a Benaphore, or semaphore.[09:38:21] * OmniMancer needs to learn concurrent stuff.[09:38:28] <OmniMancer> Benaphore :P[09:38:32] <JonathanThompson> Or something else that's asynchronous and non-blocking.[09:38:58] <JonathanThompson> Or, for that matter: atomic adds/subtracts/ etc.[09:39:08] <JonathanThompson> And have the higher level object poll it.[09:39:21] <JonathanThompson> (If things aren't critical to look at immediately)[09:39:35] <OmniMancer> an asynchronous write to a remote location :P[09:40:51] <JonathanThompson> The R2 API really needs to change for long-term sanity, despite a lot of people having the impression that the BeOS API is so clean :p[09:41:18] <OmniMancer> well the BeOS API is cleaner than the C APIs of other OSs[09:41:20] <OmniMancer> :P[09:41:26] <JonathanThompson> Well, if you're not using an internal abstract data type, or comparison functions defined outside the class, friend statements are enemies :P[09:42:00] <JonathanThompson> Curiously (I know I'll have some people get upset with this) Windows has a more logically structured (not cyclic) Win32 API for the GUI stuff.[09:43:09] <JonathanThompson> The worst mess in BeOS's GUI API? BView by a long shot.[09:43:18] <JonathanThompson> It's the class that ate Manhattan ;)[09:43:46] <JonathanThompson> If you look hard enough, you'll probably find the kitchen sink buried in the folds of the fat.[09:44:08] *** DDevine has joined #haiku[09:45:21] <OmniMancer> but the win32 one is C :([09:45:47] <JonathanThompson> That doesn't make it any worse for object-oriented design and implementation: that's purely syntactical.[09:46:01] <JonathanThompson> An HWND is essentially the replacement for a this pointer.[09:46:25] <OmniMancer> no but it makes it ugly to write :([09:46:28] <JonathanThompson> But, unlike BeOS, the size of what's represented by an HWND is completely opaque besides the size of an HWND.[09:47:16] <JonathanThompson> Microsoft can go and do all sorts of wild changes under the hood, and as long as the semantics for old functionality remains the same, it doesn't matter for all the applications.[09:47:51] <JonathanThompson> They'll link up nicely and work as expected: go mucking around with the BeOS API even a little bit that changes the size/layout and you've possibly broken everything.[09:48:29] <JonathanThompson> Oh, and if you're looking for an application written for BeOS that's a mess, look at OpenTracker :)[09:49:14] <JonathanThompson> There's easily probably only a percent or two of code you can reuse without creating another OpenTracker derivative entirely.[09:49:18] <OmniMancer> that is one problem with C++[09:49:22] <JonathanThompson> Everything else is a big cycle.[09:49:28] <JonathanThompson> The fragile base class problem?[09:49:44] <OmniMancer> if its in Obj-C then it doesn't have the trouble either[09:50:07] <JonathanThompson> If you don't use virtual functions in the system binary API, but only in what you give to it, it wouldn't be a problem at all.[09:50:46] <JonathanThompson> There's ways to structure things in C++ that would only have you needing to know the size of the system API's pointer inside it, and you pass in objects to override behavior that the system calls via callbacks.[09:51:28] <OmniMancer> or you could write the whole API in self :D[09:51:37] <JonathanThompson> That sounds like fun :D[09:51:51] <JonathanThompson> I've never worked with Self, but I've read the online paper describing it.[09:52:25] <JonathanThompson> The funny thing to me is it sounds very much like a scripting language I had in mind to create ;)[09:52:29] <OmniMancer> prototype object FTW[09:52:33] <OmniMancer> Io[09:53:04] <OmniMancer> prototype object system is more powerful than class based[09:53:34] <JonathanThompson> I'd have to agree: I could see how you could emulate a class-based one with the prototype.[09:53:47] <OmniMancer> yes you can[09:53:52] <OmniMancer> but not the other way around[09:53:54] <JonathanThompson> But, not so easily the other way around with existing code.[09:54:03] *** knottnhupfer has quit IRC[09:54:11] <OmniMancer> you would need some sort of weird language feature[09:54:25] *** DDevine has quit IRC[09:54:58] <JonathanThompson> Obj-C is, oddly enough, one of the more likely ones to possibly compare to Self for object->prototype system.[09:55:09] *** nutela has joined #haiku[09:55:18] <JonathanThompson> At least, with the additions to the language Apple made with Leopard, IIRC.[09:56:06] *** DDevine has joined #haiku[09:56:28] <JonathanThompson> Now, if Self could be implemented to have comparable speed to C code, along with decent concurrency speeds, that'd make it a killer language for actual app/OS development.[09:56:50] <JonathanThompson> And I think the OS developers would be able to make a heck of a lot faster progress if they could do that with the kernel especially ;)[09:57:46] <JonathanThompson> The thought that you could prototype objects, test them, and if everything works as planned in the tests, just kill the parent objects and make them the new parent, without recompiling.... while running.[09:58:03] <m0ns00n> Make a javascript compiler =)[09:58:21] <JonathanThompson> Self isn't remotely like JavaScript :)[09:58:36] <m0ns00n> No, but it's a prototype oo language[09:58:43] <m0ns00n> Caring for instances rather than classes[09:58:58] <OmniMancer> um there is a lot of work in the compiler to make self fast[09:59:19] * JonathanThompson needs to put more time into mastering JavaScript for employment purposes, and create something useful with it for that reason at least...[09:59:41] <JonathanThompson> I forget what I read about the speed of Self.[09:59:55] <JonathanThompson> Not sure if it really mentioned much about it in that paper.[10:00:02] <JonathanThompson> Or I just forgot.[10:00:32] <OmniMancer> they went to a lot of trouble to make it fast[10:00:39] <JonathanThompson> Now, here's an interesting thought: a bastard lovechild cross between Self and Erlang.[10:01:08] <OmniMancer> :P[10:01:18] <m0ns00n> I think Javascript should be used more in real world apps[10:01:27] <m0ns00n> Would be cool with a proper javascript compiler[10:01:36] <m0ns00n> It is so fast to develop apps with[10:01:56] <OmniMancer> I wish self had a windows port :([10:01:58] <JonathanThompson> I have ideas for how R2 could look/function and be structured, that'd greatly leverage JavaScript developers.[10:02:08] <m0ns00n> Give me GUI bindings for Haiku in Javascript and you'd have lots of apps in an instant =)[10:02:20] *** nutela has quit IRC[10:02:22] <OmniMancer> I am discriminated against for happening to use windows :([10:02:24] <JonathanThompson> And.... that's a lot of the reason I have in mind for some of my ideas :)[10:02:44] <m0ns00n> The basic javascript (without DOM) would work great with gui apps[10:02:49] <OmniMancer> you could use common lisp for OS development :P[10:03:01] <JonathanThompson> Besides the fact that with what I've had in mind for a bit, usability for those that need it for disabilities of any type would be helped a lot, too, as a direct side-effect.[10:03:25] <m0ns00n> var win = new Window ( ); win.open ( ); win.cleanup = function ( ){ ... }; win.onClose = function ( ){ this.cleanup ( ); }[10:03:51] <JonathanThompson> I think Palm with their "WebOS" have it about half right.[10:03:52] <m0ns00n> With javascript support in Haiku you'd have a whole lot of web devs who'd be very happy too[10:04:07] <JonathanThompson> The trick is to go all right.[10:04:14] <JonathanThompson> Go to the logical extreme.[10:04:17] <OmniMancer> I should see if self compiles :P[10:05:43] <JonathanThompson> I know, OmniMancer: instead of JavaScript, all browsers should use Self instead :P[10:05:50] <OmniMancer> :P[10:05:53] <OmniMancer> or Io[10:09:15] <OmniMancer> I need to look into what the self compiler requires[10:09:51] <OmniMancer> I severely hope it does not need C[10:09:52] <OmniMancer> X[10:09:55] <OmniMancer> not C[10:10:49] <OmniMancer> I would try out self if it worked on windows :([10:11:34] <JonathanThompson> Is this the latest version? http://research.sun.com/self/release_4.2/release.html[10:12:06] <OmniMancer> 4.3[10:12:15] <OmniMancer> http://research.sun.com/self/release_4.3/release.html[10:12:30] <OmniMancer> but 4.3 is only sparc solaris ad macos[10:12:34] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[10:12:56] <OmniMancer> It saddens me that it does not seem to be portable :([10:13:12] <geist> such is the fate of many research projectsw[10:13:12] <JonathanThompson> The 4.2 release was supposed to address porting.[10:13:58] <OmniMancer> sigh[10:14:41] <JonathanThompson> OmniMancer: read here: "Although our code is completely independent of theirs, we would be remiss if we did not mention Gordon Cichon and Harald Gliebe, who have also done an x86 port of Self. Their port runs on both Linux and Windows (which ours does not, yet - we would be thrilled if some kind soul were to port this latest version of Self to either of those platforms)."[10:15:10] <OmniMancer> I think the problem is that they went to such extents to make the compiler optimising that it is hard[10:15:16] <OmniMancer> where can we find their port?[10:15:17] *** jprostko has quit IRC[10:15:37] <OmniMancer> aha[10:15:56] <OmniMancer> oh[10:15:56] <JonathanThompson> http://selflanguage.org/download/index.html[10:16:06] <OmniMancer> that's how they do windows...[10:16:10] <JonathanThompson> Don't see the windows version there, but Linux is there.[10:16:11] <OmniMancer> cygwin :([10:16:14] <JonathanThompson> Ack.[10:16:20] <JonathanThompson> They took the easy way out.[10:16:24] <JonathanThompson> (And ugly)[10:16:26] <OmniMancer> which is better than nothing atleast[10:16:31] <OmniMancer> atleast it runs![10:17:12] <JonathanThompson> Seems my good deed is done for the day, now the rest of the day I can be pure evil ;)[10:18:45] <OmniMancer> sigh[10:18:51] <OmniMancer> can you help port it?[10:19:08] <JonathanThompson> I honestly don't have the time I can afford to do that.[10:19:19] <OmniMancer> :([10:19:23] <JonathanThompson> I'm currently unemployed and unless that gets extended (like I hope) I'm hosed.[10:19:47] <JonathanThompson> And I desperately need to work on other things to add skills for employment purposes.[10:19:53] <OmniMancer> ah[10:20:05] <JonathanThompson> I don't think I've seen a single reference to Self for a job situation.[10:20:21] <JonathanThompson> I really shouldn't be spending time in here ;)[10:21:04] <JonathanThompson> Self at least has a compatible license to Haiku's.[10:21:19] <OmniMancer> yay[10:21:27] <OmniMancer> so when do we port haiku to self :P[10:21:34] <JonathanThompson> Though I think, sadly, using Self would make Haiku even more of a marginal language choice to alienate possible developers.[10:21:57] <JonathanThompson> It'd be an uphill battle, both ways :P[10:24:05] <OmniMancer> :P[10:24:12] <OmniMancer> rewrite the API in self :P[10:25:02] <JonathanThompson> We don't need no stinkin' fragile base class problem :D[10:27:04] <JonathanThompson> Interesting statistic: "The Self VM is over 100,000 lines of C++, and I’m kinda scared of it."[10:27:13] <JonathanThompson> So, sounds manageable ;)[10:27:56] <JonathanThompson> Hmmm... still plagued by long compile times....[10:28:09] <JonathanThompson> I'm betting there's huge cycles in the structure, then.[10:28:40] <JonathanThompson> Because a 128 MB RAM p2 is more than enough to handle that much code and build quickly if there aren't cycles.[10:30:06] <OmniMancer> :([10:30:12] <OmniMancer> it is a VM though[10:31:18] <JonathanThompson> Doesn't mean it should suffer from long compile times.[10:31:24] *** nutela has joined #haiku[10:31:39] <OmniMancer> llvm suffers long compile times for me in haiku :([10:31:39] <JonathanThompson> Back in 2001, we could do a full build of about 200K lines in < 10 minutes, no problem, on that machine I was mentioning.[10:31:44] <JonathanThompson> Under Windows NT 4.0.[10:31:50] <OmniMancer> yay[10:32:04] <JonathanThompson> All in the way it's structured.[10:32:05] <OmniMancer> self should have a nativecode compiler[10:32:10] *** nutela has quit IRC[10:32:10] <OmniMancer> like sbcl[10:32:15] <OmniMancer> sbcl is nice :D[10:32:34] <OmniMancer> we need to create a common lisp system that works like the smalltalk GUI stuff[10:33:47] *** DDevine has quit IRC[10:34:02] *** DDevine has joined #haiku[10:34:33] <JonathanThompson> Way past the time I should be in bed...[10:35:09] <OmniMancer> :([10:35:15] <OmniMancer> common lisp is quite nice[10:35:54] <OmniMancer> it has a class based object system but it is very dynamic[10:36:02] <OmniMancer> you can change the class of an object at runtime[10:36:17] <OmniMancer> and it usually has a decent metaobject protocol[10:42:20] * OmniMancer cries because the windows self VM needs cygwin installed[10:42:28] * OmniMancer hates installing cygwin[10:48:32] *** mortuosplango has joined #haiku[10:48:32] *** HaikuBot has joined #haiku[10:50:10] <OmniMancer> unfortunately it seems that the latest self version is in part self hosting so one cannot port it easily :([10:50:26] <OmniMancer> or atleast there is no well defined boundry between VM code and self code[10:50:40] <OmniMancer> wait maybe there is[10:51:30] <OmniMancer> someone should make it be able to use Qt as a windowing system :([10:52:42] *** Kernel86__ has joined #Haiku[10:54:46] *** Kernel86|Laptop has quit IRC[10:59:09] *** michail has joined #haiku[11:13:25] *** ReformatMe has quit IRC[11:21:02] *** slaine_ has joined #haiku[11:27:44] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[11:34:30] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[11:35:00] *** mattlacey has joined #haiku[11:37:20] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[11:41:07] *** nighty_ has quit IRC[11:45:33] <Barrett> http://www.haikuware.com/directory/view-details/development/app-installation/restore-sony-usb-storage-media[11:45:40] <Barrett> windows software[11:45:41] <Barrett> lol[11:58:24] *** nighty_ has joined #haiku[11:58:34] <mmu_screen> I think we should add radio buttons to select the OS when submitting stuff here... with a Windows one that automatically rejects things :)[11:58:55] <OmniMancer> ??[11:59:58] <Barrett> mmu_screen, good idea lol[12:00:32] *** raichoo has quit IRC[12:00:42] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[12:00:43] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[12:04:25] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[12:08:37] *** nighty_ has quit IRC[12:10:21] *** broadcast has joined #haiku[12:10:52] *** nighty_ has joined #haiku[12:10:55] *** diogen has joined #haiku[12:11:54] <CIA-46> axeld * r33866 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/keymap/ (KeyboardLayoutView.cpp KeyboardLayoutView.h):[12:11:54] <CIA-46> * Some keymap labels now have an abbreviated version that is used when the key[12:11:54] <CIA-46> gets too small for the full text.[12:11:54] <CIA-46> * This closes enhancement ticket #4024.[12:14:33] *** mattlacey has quit IRC[12:15:20] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[12:22:49] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[12:22:54] <StreaK|ON> Hiya[12:24:39] <StreaK|ON> Hey guys can you explain mi one thing about the future of GCC4hybrid. I heard from my friend [ known on haiku scene ] that support for gcc4 will bi dropped in r2, and focused on gcc2hybrid. Its this true?[12:24:55] <StreaK|ON> *me *be :)[12:27:03] *** nighty___ has joined #haiku[12:29:44] <OmniMancer> what is meant[12:29:59] <OmniMancer> is that binary compatability for the current API on gcc4 will be dropped[12:30:06] <OmniMancer> and you will have to recompile[12:31:32] <OmniMancer> gcc2 binary compatability may be retained due to BeOS compatability[12:31:36] <OmniMancer> this is how I understand it[12:31:50] <OmniMancer> I doubt they will drop gcc4 support[12:31:57] <OmniMancer> because they will want to move to gcc4[12:33:27] *** fly-away has joined #haiku[12:34:48] <markos_> OmniMancer: i got the exactly opposite impression, that gcc2 will be dropped completely -eventually- and only the gcc4 ABI will be supported[12:35:15] <OmniMancer> I think they might do that[12:35:26] <OmniMancer> but they may keep comaptability for BeOS stuff[12:36:03] <markos_> personally, i don't think it it's worth it anymore, but that's just MHO[12:37:19] <markos_> many beos apps are old/obsolete/binary only and don't even work anymore so retain compatibility with what exactly[12:37:58] <markos_> haiku's future is not in old apps, but otoh if there is no cost in keeping compatibility then sure, why not[12:40:22] *** adamk_ has joined #haiku[12:40:28] *** nighty_ has quit IRC[12:41:10] *** hisoka999 has joined #haiku[12:42:32] <OmniMancer> no but keeping the compatability prevents regressions for now[12:43:21] *** michail has quit IRC[12:47:12] *** triplez has quit IRC[12:47:40] *** StreaK|ON has quit IRC[12:48:51] * mmu_man almost finished with this "some useful haiku projects" thread[12:48:52] <mmu_man> bleh[12:50:41] *** michail has joined #haiku[13:06:20] *** triplez has joined #haiku[13:17:09] *** nighty_ has joined #haiku[13:19:17] *** netstar has joined #Haiku[13:19:39] <netstar> Any marvell_yukon hackers here?[13:20:16] *** nighty___ has quit IRC[13:23:41] *** netstar has quit IRC[13:26:43] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[13:29:01] *** diogen has quit IRC[13:29:35] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[13:29:51] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[13:31:11] *** sprma has joined #haiku[13:33:10] *** netstar has joined #Haiku[13:33:18] <netstar> Needing help with marvell yukon[13:33:24] <netstar> using 10baseT doesn't work[13:33:30] <netstar> mtu changes dont noticably work[13:33:42] <netstar> I force 10baseT from the gateway[13:33:49] <netstar> disable all IPv6[13:35:51] *** netstar has quit IRC[13:36:12] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[13:41:41] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[13:46:29] *** thotypous has quit IRC[13:51:02] *** netstar has joined #Haiku[13:51:31] *** netstar has quit IRC[13:52:09] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[13:56:29] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[13:56:34] *** Geoz has joined #haiku[13:57:35] *** netstar has joined #Haiku[13:59:35] *** redblue has quit IRC[14:00:48] *** netstar has quit IRC[14:02:54] *** peerkoel has quit IRC[14:02:58] *** DrVim has joined #haiku[14:04:14] *** peerkoel has joined #haiku[14:05:55] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[14:08:45] *** phalax_ has quit IRC[14:08:57] *** phalax_ has joined #haiku[14:16:18] <OmniMancer> are there any plans for xen support?[14:17:47] *** hisoka999 has quit IRC[14:20:26] *** DaneScott has joined #haiku[14:20:40] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[14:20:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[14:20:54] <DaneScott> plop mmu_man[14:21:35] <mmu_man> plop[14:22:06] *** netstar has joined #Haiku[14:22:27] <mmu_man> DaneScott it just came to me that you likely still use R5... and the BONE tty manager has different calls on the same version... shrug[14:22:36] <mmu_man> hence the crash[14:23:02] <mmu_man> I'm adding runtime detection of this as I'm getting tired of building 2 bins and risking using the wrong one[14:23:14] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[14:23:22] <DDevine> OmniMancer: Xen HVM I guess you mean. Haiku works fine with KVM.[14:23:47] <OmniMancer> I mean the xen hypervisor[14:23:48] <netstar> any advice trying to workaround marvell_yukon, should I set the network to full or half duplex at 10baseT and what MTU should the router and the box have, any help gratefully received![14:23:56] <DDevine> OmniMancer: that's what I was talking about.[14:24:08] *** DrVim has left #haiku[14:24:24] <mmadia> netstar : you may have better luckm on the [haiku] mailing list at this point.[14:24:41] <netstar> I can't hold a browser connection[14:24:47] <netstar> but do you mean post?[14:24:58] <DDevine> I don't think Xen DomU support is worth the effort.[14:25:20] <DDevine> I'm not sure why Haiku doesn't work in Xen HVM mode though.[14:25:35] <OmniMancer> what is Xen HVM?[14:26:00] <DDevine> Hardware assisted virtualization, rather than using paravirtual drivers.[14:26:17] <DDevine> That's how you can run Windows in Xen.[14:26:20] <OmniMancer> ah requiring VT or pacifica support[14:26:25] <OmniMancer> it should[14:26:28] <DDevine> Intel VT or AMD-V[14:27:22] *** hisoka999 has joined #haiku[14:27:24] <OmniMancer> does haiku work under that?[14:27:52] <DDevine> With Haiku being a desktop oriented OS I don't think that Xen support is a high priority.[14:28:10] *** nutela has joined #haiku[14:28:26] <DDevine> OmniMancer: Yes, it works fine with the KVM Hypervisor, and obviously works well using virtualization extensions in VirtualBox and VMware.[14:30:22] <OmniMancer> if you use xen hvm do you get emulated devices instead of the real ones?[14:30:46] <DDevine> Actually, the other way around.[14:30:51] <DDevine> I know what you meant though.[14:31:39] <OmniMancer> I read somewhere it uses the qemu hardware layer for the VT assisted VMs[14:32:19] <DDevine> Yes, Qemu does the actual emulation voodoo.[14:32:47] <OmniMancer> so you do not get real devices as you could if you had xen aware drivers?[14:32:50] <DDevine> But the speed comes from the guest os being able to run on the actual physical hardare.[14:33:41] *** netstar has quit IRC[14:34:00] <DDevine> I'm actually being a bit too simplistic.[14:34:13] <DDevine> I have to go now though, goodnight.[14:34:42] <OmniMancer> night[14:34:46] <OmniMancer> the point is[14:34:55] <DaneScott> mmu_man: sorry was away[14:34:59] <OmniMancer> you won't get the native GFX from VT[14:35:23] <DDevine> No, that's actually why I said I was being too simplistic before.[14:35:24] <DaneScott> mmu_man: What are the implications?[14:35:44] <mmu_man> DaneScott just some more code, but then it shouldn't crash anymore[14:35:59] *** netstar has joined #Haiku[14:36:06] <DDevine> I would like to see CouchDB on Haiku btw. (have to go now, cyas)[14:36:19] *** DDevine has quit IRC[14:36:34] *** phalax_ has quit IRC[14:36:59] *** phalax_ has joined #haiku[14:37:01] *** Irakawa has joined #haiku[14:37:04] <OmniMancer> yea I think you can get the native GFX through some means[14:37:05] *** netstar has quit IRC[14:42:28] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[14:44:09] *** DaneScott has quit IRC[14:45:21] *** judgen has joined #haiku[14:45:30] *** dru_ has joined #haiku[14:45:45] <judgen> Is OSS included by default in haiku nowdays?[14:45:53] <judgen> or is it a spearate download?[14:45:56] <mmu_man> judgen no[14:46:16] <mmu_man> due to some conflicts with native drivers[14:46:22] <mmu_man> should be fixed someday[14:46:28] <judgen> awseom[14:46:36] <mmu_man> ++[14:46:37] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[14:46:41] *** alexsuraci` has joined #haiku[14:50:11] *** saivert has quit IRC[14:52:27] *** judgen has quit IRC[14:53:49] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[14:55:43] *** saivert has joined #haiku[14:56:39] *** hoelzro has joined 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IRC[16:24:11] *** nutela has joined #haiku[16:28:13] *** adamk_ has quit IRC[16:28:14] *** saivert has quit IRC[16:28:25] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[16:29:00] *** adamk_ has joined #haiku[16:29:18] *** netstar has joined #Haiku[16:30:18] <netstar> Does anyone have the link for the QT demo pack GCC4 on hand?[16:30:26] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[16:33:19] *** netstar has quit IRC[16:34:01] *** saivert has joined #haiku[16:36:46] *** Irakawa1 has left #haiku[16:36:55] *** oxocoffee has joined #haiku[16:41:12] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[16:42:43] *** nighty_ has quit IRC[16:49:21] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[16:49:23] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[16:50:35] *** HaikuBot has joined #haiku[16:54:19] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[16:54:54] *** nighty_ has joined #haiku[16:57:23] *** michail has quit IRC[16:57:32] *** _Qeos_ has joined #haiku[16:58:11] *** prOSy has joined #haiku[16:58:31] <prOSy> hiya[16:58:37] <gtaw> hara[17:03:18] *** nutela has quit IRC[17:04:03] *** |Qeos| has quit 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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[18:42:56] * JonathanThompson types it in reverse[18:42:58] <JonathanThompson> bob[18:43:06] <michaelvo> What is this?[18:43:07] <michaelvo> hua[18:43:24] * michaelvo wants play too[18:45:24] <JonathanThompson> Word games.[18:45:37] <JonathanThompson> .semag droW[18:46:49] *** baia has joined #haiku[18:47:30] *** ricardojose has quit IRC[18:48:59] *** slaine_ has quit IRC[18:50:07] *** skarmiglione has joined #haiku[18:53:28] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[18:55:57] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[18:56:07] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[18:57:21] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[19:01:55] *** slaine_ has joined #haiku[19:02:45] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[19:04:01] *** nutela has quit IRC[19:05:34] *** tqh has quit IRC[19:07:12] *** OberWrk has left #haiku[19:07:14] *** Skipp_OSX has joined #haiku[19:07:23] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[19:07:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[19:07:30] *** jan__64 has joined #haiku[19:12:35] *** paul0 has joined #haiku[19:20:29] *** Skipp_OSX has left #haiku[19:25:39] *** netstar has joined #Haiku[19:31:23] *** Malmis has quit IRC[19:33:56] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[19:34:56] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[19:39:01] *** Colin_Finck has joined #haiku[19:41:34] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[19:43:20] *** jmayfield has quit IRC[19:43:52] *** jprostko has joined #haiku[19:44:34] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[19:45:09] <The123king> how far is wifi support coming along?[19:45:45] *** joeyadams has quit IRC[19:51:19] <CIA-46> michaelvoliveira * r455 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/jbigkit/patches: patch for the new version[19:52:37] *** skarmiglione has left #haiku[19:57:57] *** netstar has quit IRC[19:59:02] <CIA-46> michaelvoliveira * r456 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/jbigkit/jbigkit-2.0.bep: update lib[19:59:02] <CIA-46> michaelvoliveira * r457 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/jbigkit/patches/jbigkit-2.0.patch: update lib patch[19:59:26] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[19:59:37] *** glootech has joined #haiku[20:06:02] <StreaK|ON> re[20:07:02] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[20:07:06] *** Colin_Finck has quit IRC[20:07:29] <michaelvo> in the next time , try this game[20:07:31] <michaelvo> http://www.haikuware.com/directory/view-details/games/classics/smash-battle[20:07:36] <michaelvo> *marvelous*[20:08:17] *** Malmis has joined #Haiku[20:08:22] <StreaK|ON> to bad im using GCC2H and it not work.. :?[20:08:23] <StreaK|ON> :/[20:08:53] <michaelvo> UPDAte !![20:08:57] <michaelvo> hahaha[20:09:25] <StreaK|ON> ok, gimme FHeroes2 then .. gimme, gimme :)[20:09:30] <StreaK|ON> will check :)[20:10:36] * StreaK|ON dl'ing Smashbattle[20:10:44] <Hugen_> michaelvo : http://www.ohloh.net/p/10198[20:11:26] <Hugen_> and http://ja2.dragonriders.de/[20:11:26] <Hugen_> michaelvo do you rebember? :)[20:11:48] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[20:12:01] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[20:12:06] <michaelvo> :P[20:13:06] *** adamk_ has quit IRC[20:13:10] *** prOSy has quit IRC[20:13:38] <StreaK|ON> will try itthen with gcc4 libs[20:14:19] <michaelvo> but will got a crash on media_server_addon :( and no sound can be played[20:15:14] <StreaK|ON> that excellent homm2 MIDI music gone.. damn :/[20:16:07] <Hugen_> michaelvo error in our SDL, Haiku, media server or sdl games?[20:16:48] <michaelvo> in media_server_addon because it's gcc2 running gcc4 stuff[20:17:11] <Hugen_> michaelvo gcc2hybrid with sdlgcc4 in dir /gcc4 not work too?[20:17:31] *** joshc has quit IRC[20:17:36] <Hugen_> and crash too[20:17:38] <Hugen_> ?[20:17:46] *** joshc has joined #haiku[20:17:51] <Hugen_> yep[20:18:04] <Hugen_> work in 80% :P[20:18:53] <michaelvo> homm2 MIDI could be two things: haiku don't support .mix files or I make some mistake on buil libmikmod gcc4 (I'll check this one now)[20:19:02] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[20:19:04] <michaelvo> build[20:21:36] *** korli has joined #haiku[20:21:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[20:23:49] *** Barrett has quit IRC[20:24:01] * michaelvo building JA2 to Hugen_[20:24:17] <StreaK|ON> excellent :P[20:24:39] *** nutela has joined #haiku[20:24:39] <StreaK|ON> Hugen, you know what ask for , right :)[20:24:56] <StreaK|ON> it starts with ..M[20:24:58] <StreaK|ON> hehe[20:25:02] <StreaK|ON> :)[20:25:45] <StreaK|ON> anyway, ill check fh2 on gcc4 libs in about 30 min[20:26:04] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[20:26:25] <michaelvo> sorry about that but this game don't make with gcc2[20:27:17] <StreaK|ON> jagged aliance should work on DBX[20:27:20] <StreaK|ON> well[20:27:34] <StreaK|ON> but not JA2[20:27:36] <StreaK|ON> :/[20:28:05] <Hugen_> StreaK|ON: MAME?[20:28:46] <Hugen_> michaelvo: yep, only >gcc3[20:28:51] * michaelvo found an error on JA2[20:28:56] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[20:28:56] * michaelvo squashed[20:29:08] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[20:29:17] <Hugen_> but we have gcc4 and sdldev for gcc4 too[20:31:41] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[20:31:49] *** jprostko has quit IRC[20:33:14] <Hugen_> michaelvo: or maybe new port of MAME[20:33:52] <AlienSoldier> i guess sdlmame is the best bet[20:33:54] *** raichoo has quit IRC[20:34:20] <StreaK|ON> SDLMAME / XMAME maybe..[20:34:23] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[20:34:28] <AlienSoldier> xmame is obsolete[20:34:32] <StreaK|ON> let me see what possibilities we have[20:34:38] <AlienSoldier> sdlmame is up to date[20:35:29] *** jan__64 has quit IRC[20:35:58] <Hugen_> maybe standard MAME :P[20:36:03] <Hugen_> http://mamedev.org/[20:36:15] <StreaK|ON> oh.. yes.. http://www.zophar.net/mame/sdlmame.html[20:36:32] <StreaK|ON> its pretty damn new , so SDL MAME[20:36:47] <StreaK|ON> 0.134[20:37:27] <StreaK|ON> i think original mame will be harder to port..[20:39:18] * StreaK|ON thinking about new ver of his MAME GUI ..[20:41:18] * AlienSoldier want GUI with file names and attribute. like something that would parse the list of games and populate a directory with the name and do the attribute to them like artist for mp3[20:43:01] *** crash_ has joined #haiku[20:45:43] <StreaK|ON> nice idea[20:46:11] <AlienSoldier> a full blown GUI is nice to have, but i would use a lite GUI more[20:46:41] *** Kroki has joined #haiku[20:48:10] <StreaK|ON> i need to think :)[20:49:09] <AlienSoldier> you need to decide now, you have crocs under you and a flaming rope over you[20:50:09] *** adamk_ has joined #haiku[20:50:24] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[20:51:48] <StreaK|ON> uh, man , i feel like pitfall from a2600 :)[20:52:06] *** ReformatMe has joined #haiku[20:52:33] <michaelvo> I got some interessanting erros in ja2[20:52:39] <michaelvo> I'll investigate[20:52:51] <CIA-46> michaelvoliveira * r458 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/ftgl: library to use arbitrary fonts in OpenGL applications[20:56:07] <CIA-46> korli * r33867 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): added missing posix functions[20:56:46] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[20:56:55] *** Kroki has quit IRC[20:58:54] <CIA-46> rudolfc * r33868 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/accelerants/matrox/engine/mga_bes.c: comment update only. Confirmed G200 not capable of HDTV overlay, G450 and G550 are capable.[21:02:14] *** tqh has joined #haiku[21:05:27] *** nutela has quit IRC[21:05:47] <CIA-46> michaelvoliveira * r459 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/ftgl/ftgl-2.1.3-rc5.bep: simply build made with a simple hack. see: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/3232[21:15:56] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[21:16:11] <CIA-46> michaelvoliveira * r460 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/ftgl/ftgl-2.1.3-rc5.bep: edited bep file[21:16:13] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[21:16:46] *** diogen[ru] has joined #haiku[21:19:04] *** redblue has joined #haiku[21:19:41] *** oxocoffee has quit IRC[21:20:25] *** korli has quit IRC[21:22:36] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[21:23:13] *** broadcast has quit IRC[21:26:37] *** raichoo_ has joined #haiku[21:26:39] *** raichoo has quit IRC[21:26:54] *** nutela has joined #haiku[21:26:59] *** kallisti5 has quit IRC[21:27:03] *** kallisti6 is now known as kallisti5[21:27:04] *** kallisti5 has quit IRC[21:27:07] *** kallisti5 has joined #haiku[21:27:20] *** raichoo_ is now known as raichoo[21:27:20] *** kallisti6 has joined #haiku[21:28:48] *** raichoo has quit IRC[21:28:52] <kallisti5> tired fingers[21:29:23] *** scanty has quit IRC[21:29:27] <kallisti5> haikufire.com now has a better less crappy logo and basic paging system[21:29:49] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[21:29:52] <StreaK|ON> need to see it..[21:30:28] <StreaK|ON> yes.. nicer[21:31:08] <michaelvo> but... it was nice already[21:31:29] <michaelvo> *huuum! upgrades*[21:31:30] <alexsuraci> it's only at 5 per page for testing right?[21:31:43] <StreaK|ON> i liked 1st layout better than previous.. and this is better than first :)[21:32:00] <michaelvo> sad that arora still buggy[21:32:10] <michaelvo> more buggy than qtbrowserdemo[21:32:17] <StreaK|ON> qt demo isnt arora[21:32:27] <StreaK|ON> some people are confused[21:32:34] <StreaK|ON> already[21:32:53] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[21:34:07] *** joeyadams has joined #haiku[21:34:41] <StreaK|ON> ugh.. i see you have there real arora :)[21:34:51] <StreaK|ON> nice... need to test it[21:34:57] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[21:35:04] <Hugen_> Streak: yep, nightmare[21:37:28] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[21:37:44] <MYOB> has there been any improvements to the scheduler at all in the past ~600 revs or so? clicky audio under load is slowly driving me insane...[21:39:46] <alexsuraci> MYOB: you're not alone, but for me it's more of gaps than clicks/skips[21:40:12] <alexsuraci> and it happens intermittently, not sure if load is a factor. may be different issues.[21:40:17] *** DraX has quit IRC[21:40:33] <MYOB> what I'm getting is a load issue, svn or compiling does it[21:41:06] <alexsuraci> ah[21:41:07] <MYOB> idling its fine[21:43:31] *** oco has joined #haiku[21:45:33] <tqh> MYOB, was it you who provided the timingtest?[21:46:42] <MYOB> tqh no[21:47:02] <tqh> ah[21:49:48] <MYOB> the primary reason there isn't updated OpenTTD or nmap or VLC builds for Haiku is my brain being melted when trying to use it - can't use a PC without music...[21:52:29] *** andreas_dr4006 has joined #haiku[21:52:54] *** fhein has quit IRC[21:54:45] *** bosii has joined #haiku[21:55:25] *** bosii has left #haiku[21:56:36] *** korli has joined #haiku[21:56:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[21:57:20] *** nutela1 has joined #haiku[22:00:32] *** The123king has quit IRC[22:01:58] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[22:02:54] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[22:03:30] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[22:03:40] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[22:07:15] <kallisti5> alexsuraci: its only 5 pages for testing[22:07:44] <kallisti5> StreaK|ON: qt libs include the qtdemo browser[22:08:54] *** nutela has quit IRC[22:08:55] <StreaK|ON> downloaded arora, seems to be as fragile as browse - demo [ hangs almost in the same places ].. need to test it more[22:09:22] <kallisti5> so did installing my QT packages and arora work?[22:09:34] <kallisti5> or did you just run arora on your pre-packaged ones?[22:09:48] <kallisti5> (I hope I got everything needed for those qt4 libs[22:10:11] <kallisti5> err.. prepackaged should be pre-existing[22:10:28] <StreaK|ON> started arora on older qt libs[22:10:31] <kallisti5> ah[22:10:47] <StreaK|ON> ah, yes it could be qt libs error not arora itself :)[22:10:57] <StreaK|ON> download qt libs aswell[22:12:19] <StreaK|ON> so these qt libs on HF are newer than libs from Haikuware?[22:12:52] <StreaK|ON> anyway .. i'll dl it and see..[22:14:11] <kallisti5> the qt libs i provided are based on svn r75.. not sure what version the ones on haikuware are based on[22:16:14] <michaelvo> where I get qmake?[22:16:16] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[22:16:53] *** nutela1 has quit IRC[22:17:58] *** Colin_Finck has joined #haiku[22:18:14] <kallisti5> michaelvo: that package on haikufire should include qmake[22:18:39] <michaelvo> ah!! thanks[22:19:03] <kallisti5> let me know if its not included.. cause that would be a big oops on my part :)[22:19:37] <michaelvo> ok, resting to haiku now[22:19:40] <michaelvo> resinting[22:19:44] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[22:20:59] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[22:22:14] * michaelvo downloading qt[22:22:20] *** nutela has joined #haiku[22:22:31] * michaelvo from haikufire[22:22:36] *** nutela has joined #haiku[22:23:01] <michaelvo> can I upload on haikufire?[22:23:33] <kallisti5> not yet[22:23:37] <kallisti5> its on the todo list[22:23:42] <michaelvo> ok[22:23:56] <kallisti5> right now you can submit an entry (including a url)[22:24:13] <michaelvo> I could send to you to post[22:24:16] <kallisti5> sure![22:24:22] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[22:24:42] <michaelvo> I will send a screenshot[22:24:54] <kallisti5> you can upload a screenshot[22:24:55] <kallisti5> also an icon[22:25:04] <michaelvo> very nice!![22:25:23] <michaelvo> dcc[22:25:31] <StreaK|ON> Kallisti5 are you planning to add an RSS thingy to every category in haikufire?[22:25:40] *** tqh has quit IRC[22:25:51] *** baia_ has joined #haiku[22:25:56] <kallisti5> Streak: like of new apps.. or of all apps?[22:26:15] <michaelvo> I like of /app/45404545440 number feature of bebits[22:26:26] *** baia has quit IRC[22:26:32] <kallisti5> ah. that would be cool[22:26:41] <kallisti5> maybe somekind of api.haikufire.com[22:26:41] <StreaK|ON> all apps[22:27:37] <StreaK|ON> it wolud be nice to have something like manager for haiku apps that uses simple rss / xml[22:27:49] <kallisti5> yeah.. that was a big goal in the begining[22:28:03] <kallisti5> i won't be the one making it though.. my c++ is kind of eh[22:28:03] <StreaK|ON> it could be easy to develop an efficient[22:28:07] <kallisti5> yeah[22:28:11] <kallisti5> brb[22:28:28] <michaelvo> somebody uses rudolf nvidia drivers here?[22:29:07] *** mattlacey has joined #haiku[22:31:37] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[22:32:08] <michaelvo> all stucked in the vesa mode[22:34:51] <StreaK|ON> ugh, arora on qt4 libs is significant faster[22:35:01] <StreaK|ON> speed monster[22:35:14] <michaelvo> yes. but very buggy[22:35:36] <michaelvo> qt is a amazing piece of software[22:35:42] <StreaK|ON> on libs provided on HF[22:35:51] <michaelvo> haiqt[22:36:20] *** Barrett has quit IRC[22:36:31] <michaelvo> download at 12.5kb from HaikuFire[22:36:43] <michaelvo> 87.5j unused[22:36:48] *** luroh has joined #haiku[22:36:52] <StreaK|ON> "speed of light"[22:37:38] <kallisti5> michaelvo: you only got 12.5kb/s?[22:37:43] *** prOSy has joined #haiku[22:38:23] <michaelvo> eh! brazilian net are slow these days.[22:38:39] *** nutela has quit IRC[22:38:39] <michaelvo> I got a phone call but they replies that is normal[22:39:40] <MYOB> I get ~100KB/sec here, line is a lot faster though[22:40:00] <StreaK|ON> kallisti5: i downloaded arora from HF with 15-20kb/s on 8mb broadband, aswell[22:40:40] <MYOB> dropping to about 55KB now[22:41:28] <michaelvo> yesterday I want to change to 2mbs but not supported here yet[22:43:23] <StreaK|ON> wire infrastructure sucks in smaller cities.. it's pain[22:43:47] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[22:47:43] <michaelvo> up to 30kb \0/[22:49:33] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[22:52:41] *** diogen[ru] has quit IRC[22:53:47] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[22:54:25] * michaelvo installing qt[22:55:38] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[22:56:09] *** PasNox has quit IRC[22:58:45] *** joshc has quit IRC[22:59:42] <michaelvo> owo!! far better than qtdemo[23:06:06] <StreaK|ON> faster[23:06:13] <prOSy> bootman[23:06:20] *** Hugen_ has quit IRC[23:06:53] *** fcr has joined #haiku[23:07:07] <prOSy> lol, wrong keyboard...[23:08:07] <StreaK|ON> :)[23:09:34] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[23:14:16] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[23:14:33] *** mattlacey has quit IRC[23:16:11] *** StreaK|ON has quit IRC[23:17:39] *** fcr has quit IRC[23:26:37] <kallisti5> yeah, arora feels faster[23:26:56] <kallisti5> and its nice using something a little more updated then Firefox 2.0[23:27:48] *** dru_ has quit IRC[23:32:12] <MrSunshine_> arora works on haiku ? :)[23:32:46] <mmadia> is http://dev.osdrawer.net/ down for anyone else?[23:33:51] *** miqlas has quit IRC[23:33:51] <luroh> yep[23:35:58] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[23:36:33] <mmadia> i think i broke it :|[23:36:52] *** JJack has joined #haiku[23:37:36] <mmadia> pulled BOM's svn history a few times while learning hgsvn, pumped 30~40 commits upstream too.[23:38:52] <luroh> it was down for some time yesterday as well, maybe he's just doing something[23:39:18] <luroh> or he could be using webfaction[23:39:28] <luroh> :>[23:39:39] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[23:40:52] <michaelvo> I was trying to write a driver for my radon hd 2600 pro card[23:41:08] <michaelvo> based upon xf86 radonhd driver[23:41:14] <michaelvo> but is not for me[23:41:15] <mmadia> no, he fixed the issue from last night :([23:41:19] <michaelvo> hahahaha[23:41:42] <JJack> Wow, Haiku has 22 mailing lists.[23:42:17] <luroh> and still people spam the dev list...[23:42:32] <luroh> oops, was i thinking out loud again?[23:43:00] <luroh> i'd better get some sleep, nite[23:43:04] *** luroh has quit IRC[23:43:54] <michaelvo> I will took too[23:46:01] *** paul0 has quit IRC[23:46:36] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[23:48:42] *** Colin_Finck has quit IRC[23:49:33] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[23:49:33] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[23:49:45] *** MYOB has quit IRC[23:50:57] *** adb has joined #haiku[23:53:14] *** dflemstr has quit IRC[23:56:06] *** raichoo has quit IRC[23:59:11] *** [r4] has quit IRC[23:59:52] *** redblue has quit IRC