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[00:42:33] <mmu> arf, nic lockup
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[01:58:57] <CIA-5> mmlr * r28234 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/tracker/PoseView.cpp:
[01:58:57] <CIA-5> Don't select anything in type ahead mode when no match is found anymore. This
[01:58:57] <CIA-5> makes sure that the best match just stays selected instead of always selecting
[01:58:57] <CIA-5> the topmost pose.
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[04:16:22] <Kokito> good evening folks
[04:16:31] <zizban> Good evening
[04:17:44] <Kokito> hey zizban
[04:17:52] <RandomInsano> A'hoy
[04:18:57] <Kokito> hola RandomInsano :)
[04:19:21] <RandomInsano> Heh. Hello
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[04:41:58] * Kokito pings geist
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[04:45:04] <geist> sup
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[05:03:46] <DeadYak> geist: thanks for the tip :)
[05:04:02] <geist> yeah, he rules
[05:05:11] <DeadYak> indeed he does
[05:05:47] <geist> a lot of his new stuff doesn't rule so much
[05:05:53] <geist> but the second half is almost entirely floyd
[05:05:56] <Kokito> just saying hi geist
[05:05:57] <geist> and they do Echoes!
[05:06:01] <geist> hi Kokito
[05:06:03] <Kokito> hey DeadYak
[05:06:03] <geist> what's up?
[05:06:08] <DeadYak> geist: ooh, that was a great song
[05:06:10] <Kokito> not much
[05:06:12] <DeadYak> Kokito: hiya
[05:06:23] <geist> DeadYak: kinda sad though, Richard Wright is there
[05:06:23] <Kokito> watching TV and browsing the net a bit
[05:06:31] <DeadYak> geist: :(
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[06:06:39] * JonathanThompson peeps DeadYak
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[06:23:55] * DeadYak meeps at JonathanThompson
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[06:35:32] * JonathanThompson returns an ACK after a brief delay from going to the store
[06:35:48] <DeadYak> lol
[06:38:30] <JonathanThompson> Is it really so surprising?
[06:38:55] <DeadYak> no :P
[06:39:31] <JonathanThompson> I must truly be insane: I keep going with my personal trainer on Saturday mornings to run on mountain trials, despite not having the greatest balance :P
[06:40:00] <JonathanThompson> (Beautiful views over the edge of the trail, overlooking the cliffs)
[06:40:22] <DeadYak> we joined that insanity here today :P
[06:40:26] <DeadYak> we went on a ~4 hour hike
[06:40:29] <DeadYak> my feet hate me right now
[06:41:08] <JonathanThompson> Also with the realization that if I fell over the edge of these trails, the only way they could get to me is on foot, with a long, tough hike back on crazy trails to where a car could go, or even a helicopter.
[06:41:19] <RandomInsano> You know, I went on a four hour walk to the mall and people called me insane. If I'd called it 'a scenic hike through the city' I would have been fine
[06:41:24] <JonathanThompson> It was only about 4 miles this morning.
[06:41:40] <JonathanThompson> Now you know what you need to do in the future, RandomInsano :P
[06:42:00] <RandomInsano> Indeed
[06:42:02] <JonathanThompson> And yet, there are women that will readily walk around inside a mall more than 4 hours on their feet while shopping.
[06:42:25] <DeadYak> well, there's a slight difference between 4h of walking and 4h of hiking down sharp rocks and stuff :P
[06:42:42] <JonathanThompson> The last time we had gone to the trails, it was somewhere between 6-8 miles of varying running speeds and fast walking, for around 2.5 hours.
[06:43:11] <JonathanThompson> DeadYak: I have special trail running shoes for this sort of thing: regular road shoes would be even more insane.
[06:43:36] <JonathanThompson> The most common thing on Cougar Mountain is fallen trees, roots, mud, etc.
[06:43:54] <JonathanThompson> Oh, and don't go too far off the trail even where it's remotely level, due to blackberry bushes.
[06:44:09] <JonathanThompson> And.... watch out for bears and cougars ;)
[06:44:21] <RandomInsano> Attractive older women?
[06:44:36] <DeadYak> hahahahahaha
[06:44:38] <JonathanThompson> I'm talking about 4-legged varieties ;)
[06:44:44] <RandomInsano> heh
[06:45:21] <JonathanThompson> Though the trails I've been on, I've seen far more unleashed and leashed dogs semi-attached to owners.
[06:45:38] <JonathanThompson> A couple of women on the trail this morning had some rather fierce and powerful dogs with them ;)
[06:45:50] <RandomInsano> Good things dogs aren't prone to running off cliffs
[06:46:00] <JonathanThompson> Though on at least one of the trails, it'd be insane in my mind to have a dog along.
[06:46:22] <JonathanThompson> I could readily see one messing up your balance at a very bad spot, of which there are many.
[06:46:45] <RandomInsano> Does anyone know what a 'command overflow buffer' is? I'm reading over the S3 accelerant code
[06:46:59] <JonathanThompson> Probably exactly what it sounds like.
[06:47:20] <DeadYak> best guess, the chip has a limited size buffer for graphics commands, the overflow buffer holds the pending ones it hasn't processed yet until it has room
[06:47:36] <RandomInsano> Like a queue of what needs to be done?
[06:47:40] <DeadYak> yes.
[06:47:53] <RandomInsano> Interesting. Go hardware people
[06:48:13] <JonathanThompson> I find it interesting they have a buffer for it.
[06:48:21] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: most 3d chips do
[06:48:25] <JonathanThompson> That is, an overflow buffer for it.
[06:48:29] <DeadYak> well, at least a command buffer
[06:48:34] <DeadYak> I'd assume the overflow buffer is purely software
[06:48:46] <JonathanThompson> That would make more sense in my mind.
[06:48:58] <RandomInsano> It has an address in video memory
[06:49:00] <DeadYak> a hardware overflow buffer wouldn't really make sense to me, since, if it has room for an overflow buffer, why not just make the command buffer itself larger
[06:49:04] * JonathanThompson checks his command overflow buffer
[06:49:22] <RandomInsano> 	// Note that the X.org developers stated that the command overflow buffer
[06:49:22] <RandomInsano> 	// (COB) must END at a 4MB boundary which for all practical purposes means
[06:49:22] <RandomInsano> 	// the very end of the video memory.
[06:49:26] <JonathanThompson> What did you say again? :)
[06:49:50] <DeadYak> that could actually make sense, store 'em in spare VRAM and you can get 'em to the chip much more quickly than if you were to DMA them from RAM
[06:50:04] <RandomInsano> Meh, I'll talk to the driver writer.
[06:50:14] <RandomInsano> Exactly
[06:50:19] <DeadYak> is it that important? :)
[06:50:28] <JonathanThompson> As opposed to writing to the talking driver? :)
[06:51:13] <RandomInsano> For system speed? I suppose so. I'm taking a class on computer system optimization, and the less you access main memory the better blah blah
[06:51:33] <DeadYak> I meant more, is it that important for you to know exactly why
[06:51:43] <RandomInsano> Heck no, but it's interesting
[06:51:48] <JonathanThompson> There's so much that's not likely always accurate, you need to know the specific hardware.
[06:52:35] <JonathanThompson> However, it's at least good to learn that the theoretical perfect constant access time system doesn't usually exist like they'd want you to believe while teaching programming languages.
[06:52:58] <JonathanThompson> Theorize all you want, but after going by some theory, measure it and verify.
[06:53:27] <JonathanThompson> And, premature optimization is the root of all evil, and leads to nasty bugs more often than not that could have been avoided.
[06:53:48] <JonathanThompson> First just make it work: if it isn't fast enough, then profile it and see what's using the time, etc.
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[06:54:03] <RandomInsano> So don't trust your compiler eh?
[06:54:13] <JonathanThompson> It isn't always accurate ;)
[06:54:29] <JonathanThompson> Then again, neither are programmer's and their theories of what will be fastest.
[06:54:49] <RandomInsano> True 'nuff
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[06:55:44] <JonathanThompson> Though unless you take care for the implementation, a linked list that doesn't make links and stuff that's stored close in RAM will often be a real pig for performance.
[06:56:42] <JonathanThompson> You could possibly have the structure with the pointer to the data straddling pages, and then the data it points to also straddling pages, therefore causing 4 pages of overhead each time you go to a new element to look at it, for example.
[06:57:04] <RandomInsano> Shifting topics completely, how many graphics calls does BeOS/Haiku make to the graphics accelerant?
[06:57:20] <JonathanThompson> How many different types?
[06:57:21] <RandomInsano> Or, types
[06:57:26] <RandomInsano> Yeah
[06:57:38] <RandomInsano> I'd imagine draw lines, etc
[06:57:48] <JonathanThompson> I don't recall it being all that much for BeOS, and I suspect not much different for Haiku.
[06:57:52] <RandomInsano> Is there a default accelerant that would have them all?
[06:58:05] <JonathanThompson> I don't know the answer to that.
[06:58:21] <RandomInsano> That's fine
[06:58:35] <DeadYak> there's a header indicating which ones can be implemented if that's what you mean
[06:58:39] <RandomInsano> I'll poke at the VESA code
[06:58:49] <DeadYak> VESA won't do you any good, that one's by definition unaccelerated
[06:58:53] <RandomInsano> That would do.
[06:59:11] <RandomInsano> In fact, that's exactly what I mean... :D
[06:59:18] <DeadYak> headers/os/add-ons/graphics/Accelerant.h
[06:59:25] <RandomInsano> thanks
[06:59:48] <DeadYak> for all practical intents and purposes, the only ones that *really* matter are the blitting functions
[07:00:14] * JonathanThompson blits DeadYak
[07:00:37] <RandomInsano> For movements, etc. I played with GDI blitting in Windows. SO VERY SLOW
[07:01:11] <JonathanThompson> Did you first use a memory device context before blitting the drawn bitmaps to screen smoothly?
[07:01:47] <DeadYak> actually, come to think of it, the only ones Haiku uses are blits, rect fills and hardware cursor
[07:01:53] <RandomInsano> I just sent it hWnd stuffs or somesuch. I haven't messed with it for over six years... It was just sort of learning
[07:02:51] <JonathanThompson> Granted, it wasn't a video game, but I had decent enough visual performance on a 486 doing what I described, for displaying CNC code scrolling by on the screen on a CNC machine while it was machining.
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[07:03:26] <JonathanThompson> Most bitmap systems are likely to tear visibly if you don't draw them offscreen first.
[07:03:28] <RandomInsano> Well, compaired to DirectDraw7 blitting it was incredibly slow
[07:03:39] <RandomInsano> Or draw them at VSync
[07:03:47] <JonathanThompson> There is that, too.
[07:03:50] <DeadYak> vsync is much harder to get correct though
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[07:04:11] <JonathanThompson> hsync is the harder one than vsync.
[07:04:38] <RandomInsano> I used it in a 3D engine I programmed in QBasic. Drew it offscreen and memcopy to visible at VSync
[07:04:42] <JonathanThompson> IIRC vsync is once per frame, while hsync is once per scanline.
[07:04:58] <RandomInsano> That seems right to me
[07:05:39] <DeadYak> right but the horizontal pixel clock's usually a *lot* faster, much harder to notice tearing on that
[07:06:04] <JonathanThompson> IIRC certain computers (Amiga, Apple 2GS) used that to advantage to get more colors.
[07:06:33] <JonathanThompson> I *think* the Apple 2 series had an hsync interrupt, or at least register it could follow.
[07:06:40] <JonathanThompson> I know it had vsync.
[07:07:00] <DeadYak> Amiga did all kinds of crazy analog manipulation tricks in that department
[07:07:18] <DeadYak> iirc that's how they had that nifty little trick going where one window like say, a game could be running at a different resolution from the rest of the desktop
[07:08:03] <JonathanThompson> I remember the Apple 2GS had an interesting graphic mode per scan line that was such that if you set one pixel to a given color, every 0'd pixel after it was drawn that same color on the horizontal line.
[07:08:25] <JonathanThompson> Not as powerful as the Amiga HAM mode, though.
[07:08:36] <JonathanThompson> (But likely much easier to make use of)
[07:08:37] <DeadYak> that sounds almost like huffman coding done in hardware
[07:08:53] <RandomInsano> I never had anything but a Commodore 64 from that era to the 486SX
[07:09:10] <JonathanThompson> Well, if you just have one pattern that says "Repeat the last pattern" that's easy to implement.
[07:09:19] <RandomInsano> Hardware demo scene stuff is pretty impressive
[07:09:23] <DeadYak> yeah, I had a C128 here
[07:09:51] <JonathanThompson> I had hands-on of an Apple 2C at home from the Christmas of '84 until I moved away from home.
[07:09:54] <anarchos> my first computer was a PII-233 :P.  you guys are old :P
[07:10:14] * JonathanThompson lobs anarchos a puppy chew-toy
[07:10:37] <RandomInsano> I'm not old, the powers that bought the computers in my household were just... frugal
[07:10:37] <DeadYak> how old were you when you got your first one? :P
[07:10:49] <JonathanThompson> My first 2 PC's I bought on my own after moving out weren't that fast, anarchos ;)
[07:11:01] <JonathanThompson> (P2
[07:11:08] <anarchos> i think i was about 15
[07:11:10] <JonathanThompson> didn't exist yet)
[07:11:17] <anarchos> whenever beos r4.5 came out :P
[07:11:29] <DeadYak> see, I got my c128 when I was like.. 5?
[07:11:39] <anarchos> i installed redhat linux 5.2 then thought it was crap, and moved onto beos :P
[07:11:41] <RandomInsano> My first PC was a 486SX at age 14 (1998) and a C64 at age 9. I upgraded every six months after my first IBM compatible
[07:11:48] <DeadYak> when I was 15 I had somewhere around a 486DX4/100
[07:11:54] <JonathanThompson> I was 13 when the Apple 2C showed up on the scene.
[07:12:08] <anarchos> well i did have access to a 486 before that, but i couldnt do stuff such as install linux onto it and stuff because it was my dads :P
[07:12:31] <JonathanThompson> Correction: you could have, but you'd be in serious crap if you did :P
[07:12:42] <anarchos> right :P
[07:12:45] * DeadYak never really got into installing linux, even on his own computers
[07:13:01] <DeadYak> and in this day and age, it tortures me enough at work, I have absolutely zero desire to try and use it as a home desktop
[07:13:07] <anarchos> heh
[07:13:23] <JonathanThompson> OSX works rather well for home use, and still has serious UNIX underpinnings if you really want it.
[07:13:40] <JonathanThompson> All without the install nightmares of Linux.
[07:13:50] <anarchos> i'd like to see haiku with that
[07:13:58] <RandomInsano> I love OSX but hate Apple and Steve jobs.
[07:13:59] <DeadYak> already has it
[07:14:08] <JonathanThompson> I would love to see Haiku running on it, too.
[07:14:11] <DeadYak> we have a hell of a lot more posix than BeOS ever did
[07:14:14] <JonathanThompson> (The iMac)
[07:14:17] <anarchos> nice :D
[07:14:29] <DeadYak> not that it really matters for anything other than command line tools mostly
[07:14:34] <anarchos> yeah
[07:14:37] <JonathanThompson> I think Haiku would be very happy, indeed, with the dual core with 4 GB RAM ;)
[07:14:42] <anarchos> and portability, i'd assume
[07:14:47] <DeadYak> uh
[07:14:51] <DeadYak> posix has zero to do with hardware portability
[07:14:57] <anarchos> i meant software
[07:15:04] <JonathanThompson> I don't regret upgrading this machine from the stock 1 GB to 4 GB RAM.
[07:15:08] <DeadYak> again, for command line tools mostly
[07:15:12] <anarchos> yea
[07:15:14] <DeadYak> we don't and won't ever be using X11
[07:15:21] <anarchos> oh hell no
[07:15:29] <DeadYak> so GUI toolkits and related stuff will still involve heavy changes regardless
[07:15:32] <RandomInsano> I love how well Haiku runs on my laptop. It corrupted a file I was working on, but other than that, I loves it
[07:15:39] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps someone will go through the torture to port it, but it won't be part of the base distribution ;)
[07:15:55] <RandomInsano> I hate X so very very much
[07:16:03] * JonathanThompson spouts "Pre-alpha!" as a disclaimer
[07:16:04] <anarchos> but im thinking stuff like mysql and other things of that nature, would be nice to just be able to compile stuff and it just works
[07:16:10] <DeadYak> ugh, mysql
[07:16:12] <DeadYak> such a piece of shit
[07:16:18] <anarchos> just an example :P
[07:16:24] <RandomInsano> Biggest reason for Linux desktop problems is X
[07:16:31] <DeadYak> no, no it isn't.
[07:16:37] * JonathanThompson is stuck torturing a Postgresql-derived database at work
[07:16:39] <DeadYak> Linux's desktop problems start at the kernel
[07:16:59] <JonathanThompson> And then it just spirals out of control when you get the Dependency Hell, of which X has little to affect.
[07:17:04] <DeadYak> specifically the kernel developers retarded insistence on not maintaining a stable ABI
[07:17:07] <JonathanThompson> (But it can make it fun, too)
[07:17:08] <RandomInsano> I'm not going there because the kernel doesn't hate when I switch my video card
[07:18:14] <DeadYak> and various other inanities amongst the GUI toolkits, 20 different sound APIs, etc.
[07:18:24] <DeadYak> if you think X is Linux's problem then you're kidding yourself
[07:18:44] <RandomInsano> It's just the piece of it I hate the most.
[07:18:46] <JonathanThompson> It's the freedom of choice to the logical extreme that is extremely illogical for sanity.
[07:19:00] <DeadYak> freedom of choice + complete lack of integration
[07:19:16] <DeadYak> that's all well and good for a server, but complete suck if you want any hope of a sane desktop
[07:19:18] <RandomInsano> Everything else works well enough. It's bloated and slow, but works for me
[07:19:28] <DeadYak> says you :P
[07:19:36] <RandomInsano> Mehs!
[07:19:51] * JonathanThompson wishes he could get Haiku to run on one of the 32 core systems he uses at work
[07:20:29] <anarchos> that would be so sick to see a screenshot of :)
[07:20:34] <slaad> Then you can run a hojillion copies of BSnow!
[07:20:40] <JonathanThompson> Though Haiku would be clueless as to what to do with the 32 GB RAM ;)
[07:20:44] <RandomInsano> The process explorerer icon...
[07:21:24] <JonathanThompson> Hopefully, a 64 bit version of Haiku won't be long after the first 1.0 release.
[07:22:27] <JonathanThompson> Of course, currently, the only thing I can think of that'd reasonably use that much RAM in Haiku would be if something like the database I'm working on/with at work were ported to it.
[07:22:41] <JonathanThompson> And it'd have to be 64 bit Haiku to do so.
[07:23:34] <anarchos> yeah but in the future 4gb+ ram will be standard
[07:23:42] <anarchos> low end systems come with 2gb these days
[07:23:43] <JonathanThompson> 1.  I'm not sure if the code is currently 32-bit clean at this time and 2. it was designed to use everything available.
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[07:24:05] <JonathanThompson> And... it's really meant to be run on more than one node.
[07:24:23] <JonathanThompson> (So Haiku's network speed would matter for performance, too)
[07:24:58] * JonathanThompson is glad he doesn't have to worry about paying the electric bill for the system that is being setup for it right now
[07:28:39] <RandomInsano> Wow, there really isn't much in the way of 2D acceleration calls. Six total... Three different blits, two fills, one invert.
[07:28:54] <JonathanThompson> As I said, not too many ;)
[07:29:44] <RandomInsano> Someone needs to add gradient fills in there. Make that gradient demo app run supa fast
[07:30:44] <RandomInsano> And maybe the vector icons and junk
[07:31:23] * JonathanThompson hands a complex primitive to RandomInsano
[07:31:53] <RandomInsano> Yes, well. Blah
[07:32:10] <RandomInsano> Draw it black and AND the colour on?
[07:32:27] <RandomInsano> I take back my vector comment!
[07:32:51] <JonathanThompson> As long as you don't go off on a tangent.
[07:33:07] <RandomInsano> I shall try my best
[07:33:37] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps you can create a tesseract primitive.
[07:33:49] <RandomInsano> I assure you I cannot
[07:33:59] <JonathanThompson> How do you know until you try?
[07:34:06] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps you'll find you've saved time!
[07:34:16] <RandomInsano> Well, with my current knowledge on the subject anyhow
[07:34:20] <JonathanThompson> (There's a small space complexity to save time, though)
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[11:33:43] <ddew|bofh> hello ladies
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[11:34:51] <leszek> hi
[11:34:55] <ddew|bofh> hiya
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[14:22:24] <CIA-5> julun * r28236 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[14:22:24] <CIA-5> * reintroduce member fOffscreen which got removed in r2917
[14:22:24] <CIA-5> * check if locking the offscreen window succeeds before calling delete on it
[14:22:24] <CIA-5> * don't return offscreen windows in CountWindows and WindowAt (works now as on R5)
[14:22:24] <CIA-5>  fixes ticket 1522, 1591, 1946, 2318 and propably more
[14:22:27] <CIA-5>  While creating an BBitmap in BApplication the bitmaps window looper would
[14:22:29] <CIA-5>  be added to the applications gLooperList, thus calling Quit() on that window
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[15:52:31] <BrunoBratwurst> I am in Sennryu now how to acces my PC partitions?
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[16:39:37] <leszek> re
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[17:51:18] <umccullough> buildtools don't compile on ubuntu 8.10? that's a new one ...
[17:51:35] <umccullough> built for me last time i tried ;)
[17:55:31] <umccullough> wait...
[17:55:56] <umccullough> oh wait, i'm using 8.04
[17:55:57] <umccullough> duh
[17:56:02] <umccullough> 8.10 is beta :)
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[19:07:19] <Chowder> hi all
[19:07:41] <Chowder> so what revision is haiku up to?
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[19:08:25] <DeadYak> Last Changed Author: axeld
[19:08:25] <DeadYak> Last Changed Rev: 28242
[19:08:25] <DeadYak> Last Changed Date: 2008-10-19 10:59:23 -0500 (Sun, 19 Oct 2008)
[19:13:15] <umccullough> the cia link in the topic should be able to tell you that too :)
[19:13:16] <umccullough> http://cia.vc/stats/project/OpenBeOS
[19:13:27] <DeadYak> or trac's timeline
[19:13:29] <DeadYak> and morning umccullough
[19:13:36] <umccullough> or that ;)
[19:13:38] <umccullough> 'morning
[19:14:00] <umccullough> wow, cia is actually slow today
[19:14:02] <Chowder> ՅՃՂՁՁ
[19:14:09] <umccullough> says 28236
[19:14:27] <Chowder> really?
[19:14:32] <DeadYak> I was noticing CIA was severely lagged at pasting commit messages yesterday
[19:14:49] <umccullough> trac timeline is working though: http://dev.haiku-os.org/timeline
[19:14:58] * umccullough kills CIA-5
[19:15:51] * umccullough kicks CIA-5
[19:15:54] <umccullough> hmm...
[19:15:59] <umccullough> cia is dead
[19:17:38] <Yaroze> anyone using a morex casing?
[19:18:11] <Chowder> ՕՔՓՖ
[19:18:29] * DeadYak blinks
[19:18:35] <DeadYak> text encoding problems?
[19:18:36] <umccullough> Chowder, i just get rubbish here :)
[19:18:42] <Chowder> intersting
[19:18:56] <Chowder> I'm messing with ASCII characters
[19:19:07] <Chowder> asian characters are like the thousands
[19:19:12] <Chowder> 碐
[19:19:13] <umccullough> unicode
[19:19:17] <Chowder> right
[19:19:17] <DeadYak> those are unicode
[19:19:29] <Chowder> ooo
[19:19:35] <DeadYak> ASCII only goes up to 127 or 255 depending on if you're using extended ascii or not
[19:19:41] <Chowder> tell me if anyone hears a beep
[19:19:43] <Chowder> 
[19:19:47] <umccullough> uh...
[19:19:48] <umccullough> no
[19:19:59] <DeadYak> ascii bell sent across IRC like that won't work heh
[19:20:04] <umccullough> you have more than one machine?
[19:20:09] <Chowder> i suppose no one is on xchat?
[19:20:16] <DeadYak> lol I hate xchat
[19:20:23] * Yaroze is "on" xchat
[19:20:24] <Chowder> the beep works on xchat
[19:20:27] <umccullough> i use xchat on my ubuntu boxes
[19:20:43] <Chowder> Yaroze, you probably have the system beep turned off if you didn't hear it
[19:20:44] <umccullough> a smart client would throw that crap away :)
[19:21:13] <Chowder> I like xchat
[19:21:18] <DeadYak> or it only works if you're doing it locally
[19:21:19] <Yaroze> Chowder: hear what?
[19:21:21] <Chowder> i used to use mIRC on windows
[19:21:22] <umccullough> Chowder, you can always go to #teststupidirctheories if you wanna play ;)
[19:21:26] <Chowder> Yaroze, a beep
[19:21:39] <Yaroze> Chowder: i never hear beeps.. visual beeps ftw
[19:22:04] <Chowder> DeadYak, nope, someone else can use u007 and you'll hear it if you're on xchat
[19:22:30] * umccullough makes a mental note to stop using xchat if it doesn't have a feature to disable that
[19:22:44] <Chowder> umccullough, it's called disable the system beep
[19:22:47] <Chowder> :D
[19:22:55] <Chowder> you can also disable it in xchat
[19:22:59] <umccullough> any irc client that allows abuse that way is trash
[19:23:03] <Chowder> as well as all other sounds
[19:23:31] <umccullough> fortunately there's always /ignore
[19:23:31] <Chowder> I tried hydra, bitchx, and other ones, I find xchat to be the cleanest
[19:23:43] <umccullough> oh, you're on windows using xchat?
[19:24:03] <Chowder> nope, but i'm speaking of when I used to use XP
[19:24:07] <Chowder> I'm on ubuntu
[19:24:18] <umccullough> gnome-xchat is crap, btw
[19:24:30] <Chowder> meh, to each his own
[19:24:33] <umccullough> i always go back to the regular version :P
[19:24:46] <umccullough> it's in the "third party" packages
[19:25:05] <Chowder> i also use the regular xchat
[19:25:10] <umccullough> the gnome-xchat version is way stripped down
[19:25:13] <umccullough> feels dumb
[19:25:18] <DeadYak> sounds like most of gnome!
[19:25:24] <umccullough> well, there's that ;)
[19:25:39] <umccullough> i never did try konversation when i was playing with kubuntu
[19:25:53] <Chowder> ever use enlightenment?
[19:26:04] <Chowder> it looks great on YDL
[19:26:18] <Chowder> and very lightweight
[19:26:22] <DeadYak> umccullough: Konversation's what I use at work
[19:26:41] <umccullough> so, i gather it's not bad then? ;)
[19:27:25] <DeadYak> it works
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[19:27:35] <DeadYak> it generally stays out of my way anyhow
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[19:28:59] * umccullough wonders if cia will come back
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[19:37:59] * CIA-5 hugs umccullough
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[19:38:02] <umccullough> :D
[19:38:37] <Chowder> o hai
[19:39:15] <umccullough> cia commit site is busted here though :(
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[20:09:14] <leszek> re
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[20:52:13] <PulkoMandy> +++
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[21:18:09] <Hoern> hi
[21:18:14] <Hoern> hi
[21:18:26] <thotypous> hi
[21:18:37] <Hoern> DeadYak: here?!
[21:18:55] <DeadYak> yes
[21:19:00] <Hoern> ah, cool
[21:19:23] <DeadYak> what's up?
[21:19:45] <Hoern> DeadYak: just had an interesting problem in vision. When setting an server to primaty it disappers from the list
[21:20:01] <Hoern> DeadYak: any idea?!
[21:20:13] * DeadYak blinks
[21:20:19] <DeadYak> can't say I've ever seen that..
[21:20:34] <Hoern> never change a runnig system *grummel*
[21:20:34] <DeadYak> on Haiku or BeOS?
[21:20:37] <Hoern> BeOS
[21:20:39] <DeadYak> oh
[21:20:59] <DeadYak> I wouldn't even be able to debug on BeOS any more these days, doesn't run on any of my PCs here
[21:21:32] <Hoern> never changed that setting in at least 5 years :-)
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[21:22:16] <Hoern> DeadYak: ok, seems like I have to have a look in the code for myself :-)
[21:22:57] <DeadYak> I can't think of any good reason why it'd just disappear though
[21:23:56] <Hoern> DeadYak: ah, ok, adding a server as secondary also doesn't work
[21:24:14] * DeadYak blinks
[21:24:19] <DeadYak> what did you do? :)
[21:24:29] <Hoern> DeadYak: adding a server?! ;-)
[21:24:41] <Hoern> uh, settings file is a flatened message?!
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[21:24:48] <DeadYak> yes.
[21:25:04] * Hoern somehow likes ascii settings ;-)
[21:25:42] <DeadYak> flattened BMessage means I don't have to write my own parser / save code though :P
[21:25:56] <DeadYak> and it's better at representing hierarchical data anyways
[21:26:11] <Hoern> DeadYak: flattened BMessage means that I can't just add my server by hand ;-))
[21:26:27] <DeadYak> you shouldn't ever have to :P
[21:26:42] <DeadYak> like I said, I've never seen a problem with manipulating the server list before, I have no idea what went wrong there
[21:26:45] <Hoern> that's the theory ;-)
[21:27:01] <Hoern> DeadYak: it works with the latest Haiku version?!
[21:27:15] <DeadYak> what, Vision or server edits?
[21:27:25] <Hoern> server edits in vision
[21:27:34] <AnEvilYak> yes
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[21:27:57] <Hoern> ok, so first thing for me is to check if I have the latest version
[21:28:11] <AnEvilYak> yes, you do
[21:28:19] <AnEvilYak> the only newer versions are Haiku builds
[21:28:32] <AnEvilYak> and the only difference there is mostly to do with the version response and a few other little things
[21:28:56] <AnEvilYak> wonder if your settings file became corrupted somehow
[21:29:17] <Hoern> AnEvilYak: mot until i tried to edit the server settings
[21:29:49] <AnEvilYak> well, like I said, no idea sorry
[21:29:51] <Hoern> AnEvilYak: and all settings are ok except that edited servers don't get added
[21:30:01] <AnEvilYak> I edit server settings all the time and it works fine
[21:31:26] <Hoern> AnEvilYak: ok, just did an cvs up and it seems there are lot's of changes
[21:31:34] <AnEvilYak> uhhhh
[21:31:35] <AnEvilYak> don
[21:31:36] <AnEvilYak> err
[21:31:39] <AnEvilYak> don't use the sourceforge build
[21:31:49] <Hoern> ah, ok
[21:31:58] <AnEvilYak> that's work in progress to rewrite it to use haiku's layout management
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[21:32:39] <AnEvilYak> if you're on R5, just stick to the last bebits build, there haven't been any changes that'd matter for R5 since then
[21:32:51] <Hoern> AnEvilYak: ah, ok that explains messages like "ResizeView.cpp is no longer in the repository"
[21:33:26] <Hoern> AnEvilYak: hmm, I remember that I had some patch concerning tab completion
[21:35:13] <Hoern> AnEvilYak: ok, found an zipped older version, just try that one - brb
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[21:35:46] <Hoern> re
[21:36:22] <AnEvilYak> wb
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[21:39:11] <Hoern> AnEvilYak: ok, that version also has strange problems but you can edit at least one entry (hmm, but that couls also the case with the other version)
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[21:48:01] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[21:48:37] * AnEvilYak plops mmu_man
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[21:49:26] <mmu_man> plop
[21:49:30] <thotypous> plop
[21:49:30] <Hoern> re
[21:50:04] <thotypous> Fw:
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[21:53:03] <dr_evil> pong
[21:53:08] <AnEvilYak> hi dr_evil
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[22:06:40] * AnEvilYak trouts BGA
[22:07:01] <BGA> AnEvilYak: Hey.
[22:07:38] <AnEvilYak> hiya
[22:08:32] <AnEvilYak> BGA: dumb question, do you actually have a timezone set?
[22:08:49] <BGA> Yes.
[22:08:50] <AnEvilYak> which?
[22:08:59] <BGA> Brazil/East
[22:09:45] <thotypous> plop BGA :D
[22:10:01] <AnEvilYak> hm, still seems ok here even with that TZ
[22:10:14] <BGA> AnEvilYak: Reboot and try again.
[22:10:19] <BGA> Also, are you on a SMP machine?
[22:10:31] <BGA> Because my problem looks a lot like a race condition.
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[22:10:42] <BGA> thotypous: Hello.
[22:14:50] <thotypous> BGA, hi :D is it already possible to use a dialup modem with haiku?
[22:16:03] <thotypous> I'd like to help improving that if it's already not finished
[22:17:57] <thotypous> mmu_man said me a tty controller was missing, or something like that (I really don't remember well)
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[22:19:43] <mmu_man> yes, the tty control code from the tty driver needs to be separated to a module that can be used from serial drivers
[22:19:57] <mmu_man> btw we also miss an rs232 driver
[22:20:00] <mmu_man> not for long
[22:21:16] <thotypous> I'm interested in that, but I never coded for Haiku :P
[22:21:38] <thotypous> as I was speaking to mmu_man, I started implementing Si3055 HDAudio modem support in OpenSound
[22:23:01] <thotypous> so we could support hardmodems (when rs232 gets implemented), softmodems (only in x86, using slmodem) and cellphone - GSM/1xRTT/GPRS/3G/etc. (using usb-serial)
[22:23:59] <mmu_man> I must add select() support in beos code in OSS first
[22:24:10] <mmu_man> we have the usb_serial driver already
[22:24:14] <thotypous> yep
[22:24:15] <mmu_man> just misses the tty layer as well
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[22:24:33] <BGA> mmu_man: No. You need to fiz OSS first. :)
[22:24:39] <BGA> The audio part, I mean.
[22:24:43] <mmu_man> :p
[22:24:45] <BGA> fix
[22:24:51] <mmu_man> yeah I noticed that bug here
[22:24:58] <mmu_man> weird I never saw it before
[22:25:03] <thotypous> which bug? :P
[22:25:57] <BGA> mmu_man: So, you know OSS better than I do... How would you go about debugging it?
[22:26:05] <AnEvilYak> BGA: single CPU here
[22:26:13] <BGA> Note that whatever it is, it may be also responsible for it going silent again oin media restarts here.
[22:26:25] <BGA> AnEvilYak: k.
[22:27:21] <AnEvilYak> though it's odd that it'd be a race, there's only one CPU involved there
[22:27:24] <AnEvilYak> err
[22:27:25] <AnEvilYak> one thread
[22:28:16] <BGA> Well. Something *IS* wrong. Check teh screenshot I added to the ticket.
[22:28:22] <BGA> That is anything but normal. :)
[22:29:03] <AnEvilYak> odd
[22:29:33] <BGA> Note that the bug seems to be in the Time preferences app.
[22:29:38] <BGA> As the deskbar time was ok.
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[22:39:25] <BGA> mmu_man?
[22:39:29] <mmu_man> re
[22:39:43] <BGA>  [18:26] <BGA> mmu_man: So, you know OSS better than I do... How would you go about debugging it?
[22:39:43] <BGA>  [18:26] <AnEvilYak> BGA: single CPU here
[22:39:44] <BGA>  [18:27] <BGA> Note that whatever it is, it may be also responsible for it going silent again oin media restarts here.
[22:40:30] <mmu_man> I'll make a debug build of the media node, it's possible it's just discarding the buffers
[22:41:01] <mmu_man> one could also before media_server is started, try adding osstest to Bootscript to see if it works
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[22:43:23] <thotypous> brb
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[22:45:48] <Hoern> cu
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[22:46:48] <BGA> mmu_man: Go for it. :)
[23:08:35] <BGA> mmu_man: Gotta go. Keep me posted if you find the time to look into OSS.
[23:08:41] <mmu_man> sure
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[23:13:54] <thotypous> mmu_man, which is the bug BGA referred to? is there a ticket #?
[23:17:45] <mmu_man> dunno
[23:18:03] <mmu_man> audio doesn't work the first few seconds after boot
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[23:18:20] <thotypous> ah
[23:18:31] <thotypous> he said it at the mailing list, I think
[23:18:35] <mmu_man> it's weird as it works fine in zeta
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[23:30:17] 
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[23:34:01] <AnEvilYak> is it? :P
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[23:36:40] <mmu_man> at least in france
[23:37:10] 
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[23:40:56] <anarchos> she is hot
[23:41:25] <anarchos> wrong window, sorry :P
[23:41:48] <AnEvilYak> mmu_man: could be, I've not heard of that saint before :)
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[23:55:06] <thotypous> mmu_man, does Haiku supports only OHCI USB controllers?
[23:55:24] <mmu_man> no it should support others now
[23:55:40] <thotypous> hm, great :D
[23:57:44] <thotypous> I need to {port the vmware modules to linux 2.6.27} or {install haiku in my real hardware} so I can test the USB stuff
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   October 19, 2008  
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