October 15, 2008 
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October 15, 2008 [00:11:27] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[00:13:19] <CIA-5> axeld * r28111 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/ (BlockAllocator.cpp BlockAllocator.h Debug.cpp): (log message trimmed)[00:13:19] <CIA-5> * Each allocation group now lazily maintains the largest free block separately,[00:13:19] <CIA-5> so that allocations can be directly fulfilled from that block without having[00:13:19] <CIA-5> to search for it.[00:13:19] <CIA-5> * This should further improve the allocator's performance, but it could need[00:13:22] <CIA-5> more tuning (ie. when to rebuild the free block).[00:13:24] <CIA-5> * Added debugging code to check if the largest block is maintained correctly;[00:15:07] *** cyrann has quit IRC[00:21:23] <luroh> oops, that made haiku kdl at boot, at the disk icon[00:22:35] *** thotypous has quit IRC[00:24:00] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC[00:24:12] <DeadYak> luroh: what did, that last commit?[00:24:18] <luroh> yes[00:24:31] <DeadYak> trying it here..[00:24:39] <DeadYak> well, after a build[00:25:46] <luroh> serial.txt says:[00:25:50] <luroh> group 17 first free too late[00:25:50] <luroh> PANIC: bfs 0x91379e80: group 17 largest differs: 16384.0, checked -1.0.[00:27:21] <DeadYak> that would seem to be the debugging code mentioned in that commit[00:28:18] <DeadYak> hmm[00:29:57] <CIA-5> axeld * r28112 /haiku/trunk/src/tools/vmdkimage/vmdkimage.cpp:[00:29:57] <CIA-5> * Changed how the string for the UUID hash is build.[00:29:57] <CIA-5> * Accidently did not start at different positions in the string to build the[00:29:57] <CIA-5> hash, but just added some value to the hash...[00:32:19] * DeadYak enables BFS tracing for good measure[00:33:17] <luroh> (28112 didn't help, btw)[00:33:26] <DeadYak> yeah, it wouldn't have, it didn't touch any BFS code[00:33:33] <luroh> right[00:33:47] <DeadYak> still building here, got a whole day's worth of changes to update[00:35:04] <anarchos> so you don't have to compile everything to get the latest changes? cool[00:36:20] <DeadYak> huh?[00:36:29] <luroh> anarchos: normally, you just have to rebuild the affected targets, not the whole lot[00:36:36] <DeadYak> that's exactly what I'm doing, but it only has to rebuild stuff that's affected by the changed files[00:37:05] <anarchos> yeah cool[00:37:21] <DeadYak> that's pretty much how every larger scale build system in a software project works :)[00:37:40] * anarchos is not a coded :P[00:37:45] <anarchos> coder[00:37:56] <luroh> (unless something's occasionally fubar'ed)[00:38:10] <DeadYak> right, changes to the build sys itself can break that ability[00:38:13] <DeadYak> nothing's perfect[00:40:14] <DeadYak> though even if I did have to do a full rebuild every time, only takes about 20-30 minutes here[00:40:35] <anarchos> that's not bad[00:41:27] <DeadYak> now let's see what happens here...[00:41:36] <DeadYak> luroh: just for reference, how big a partition / disk?[00:41:46] <dr_evil> vmdkimage build a UUID hash? amazing[00:42:00] <CIA-5> axeld * r28113 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/BlockAllocator.cpp:[00:42:00] <CIA-5> * Fixed the wrong check for the largest block: it was always checked, no matter[00:42:00] <CIA-5> if the largest block was marked invalid or not. Thanks for testing, luroh :-)[00:42:00] <CIA-5> * Fixed warning.[00:42:05] <luroh> vmware image, 800 MB[00:42:13] <DeadYak> ah, there it is[00:42:28] <DeadYak> how did he know about that?[00:43:21] <luroh> he must have implanted something in my brain during BG[00:43:21] <anarchos> axeld is magic[00:43:24] <DeadYak> hm, interesting, mine insta-rebooted at the boot sector[00:43:28] * DeadYak -aq's[00:44:08] <geist> count dooku ate my balls[00:44:33] <DeadYak> lol[00:45:07] *** MegafEee has joined #Haiku[00:46:39] * luroh mentally confirms to axeld that 28113 indeed fixed the problem[00:46:48] <DeadYak> lol[00:46:50] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[00:46:58] <luroh> g'nite :)[00:47:02] <DeadYak> night luroh :)[00:47:05] *** luroh has quit IRC[00:48:25] <CIA-5> axeld * r28114 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/BlockAllocator.cpp: * I obviously need some sleep: messed up the fix, and forgot some parenthesis...[00:49:52] <DeadYak> hm, doesn't build with allocation group debugging disabled[00:52:18] *** oco has quit IRC[00:53:07] <dr_evil> I should sleep, but House is on TV (RTL, germany)[00:53:17] <DeadYak> ha[00:53:26] <DeadYak> as in House, M.D.?[00:54:25] <anarchos> i hate house :P. same thing happens every week. "omg he has <insert crazy disease>", "oh no the drugs we gave him are killing him!!", "oh wait, it's <disease #2)"[00:54:29] <dr_evil> yes[00:56:24] *** _maniac_ has joined #haiku[00:57:30] <CIA-5> axeld * r28115 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/ (BlockAllocator.cpp BlockAllocator.h): * Fixed build when DEBUG_ALLOCATION_GROUPS is not defined, thanks Rene.[00:57:38] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[01:06:02] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[01:08:36] *** Dane_ has joined #Haiku[01:08:37] *** mmlr has joined #haiku[01:08:44] *** Dane__ has joined #Haiku[01:08:46] *** Dane__ has quit IRC[01:08:48] <Dane_> blink blink[01:08:53] <Dane_> boy, those beam-ins are getting rougher every day[01:09:03] * Dane_ shakes cobwebs from head[01:09:04] *** thebolt|away is now known as thebolt[01:09:05] <mmlr> I'm usually monitoring the irc logs for bug reports like that ;-)[01:09:39] * Dane_ looks around channel, decides to dust[01:10:32] <dr_evil> hi mmlr[01:10:39] <mmlr> hi dr_evil[01:10:48] <dr_evil> I wasn't able to join this evening[01:10:59] <mmlr> yeah, apparently[01:11:19] <dr_evil> and most likely unable for the rest of the week[01:11:36] <mmlr> oh, why's that?[01:14:26] <dr_evil> renovating friday evening, most likely meeting window builder thursday, not yet sure what tomorrow will bring[01:15:39] <mmlr> ah ok, schade[01:15:50] * Dane_ takes out vacuum (pardon noise)[01:16:16] <Dane_> dr_evil could you lift your feet up for a sec?[01:20:11] <dr_evil> nope[01:21:49] *** helf2 has joined #haiku[01:22:02] <helf2> hi[01:27:16] *** wildur has quit IRC[01:28:55] *** mmlr has quit IRC[01:38:28] *** flssrswkgd has joined #haiku[01:39:38] *** Dane_ has quit IRC[01:44:59] *** _maniac_ has quit IRC[01:45:12] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[01:50:27] *** [Katisu] has joined #haiku[01:51:13] *** mat_geek has joined #haiku[01:56:19] *** hdanak has quit IRC[01:58:36] *** mmadia has quit IRC[01:58:51] *** alexsmith has joined #haiku[01:58:57] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[02:01:31] *** MegafEee has quit IRC[02:02:10] <CIA-5> axeld * r28116 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/View.cpp:[02:02:10] <CIA-5> * GetMouse() now survives being called with NULL parameters for location or[02:02:10] <CIA-5> buttons.[02:02:10] <CIA-5> * Automatic whitespace cleanup.[02:30:39] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[02:34:04] *** mat_geek has quit IRC[02:35:02] *** mmadia has quit IRC[02:40:16] *** umccullough_w has joined #haiku[02:45:10] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[02:45:10] *** pyCube has quit IRC[02:54:05] *** thebolt is now known as thebolt|away[03:05:07] *** markos_ has quit IRC[03:08:45] *** umccullough_w has quit IRC[03:10:09] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[03:20:39] <CIA-5> axeld * r28117 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/BlockAllocator.cpp:[03:20:39] <CIA-5> * Fixed a bad bug (that I introduced with one of the last commits...) that[03:20:39] <CIA-5> could check memory beyond the block and then tried to allocate that on the[03:20:39] <CIA-5> correct block (would possibly lead to KDL).[03:20:39] <CIA-5> * Made AllocationBlock::Allocate() and Free() inline.[03:31:31] *** mats has quit IRC[03:31:55] *** anarchos has quit IRC[03:37:02] *** AnEvilYak has joined #haiku[03:38:11] *** alexsmith has left #haiku[03:42:43] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC[03:42:52] <DeadYak> hmmm[03:45:45] <mmadia> .. ?[03:45:56] <DeadYak> one of today's changes seems to have broken BMenu for me[03:45:58] <DeadYak> trying to figure out which[03:46:18] <DeadYak> ah[03:46:19] <DeadYak> 28116 was it.[03:54:59] <DeadYak> aha, found the problem I think...[03:55:37] <thotypous> fix fix fix :D[03:55:45] <DeadYak> testing..[03:55:54] <DeadYak> can only build and reboot so quickly[03:56:39] <DeadYak> yep, that was it...rebooting to commit[03:56:53] <thotypous> :D[03:58:47] <CIA-5> anevilyak * r28118 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/View.cpp:[03:58:47] <CIA-5> Fix regression introduced in r28116: Due to the change in variable names, the[03:58:47] <CIA-5> wrong version of ConvertFromScreen() was now used, resulting in the calculation[03:58:47] <CIA-5> being computed and thrown away. This broke BMenu, probably amongst other things.[04:00:34] *** AnEvilYak has joined #haiku[04:02:01] <DeadYak> thotypous: there ya go[04:02:44] <thotypous> you are fast :P[04:03:20] <DeadYak> meh, it was a one line fix, hardest part was figuring out what change caused it[04:03:39] <DeadYak> (and then staring at said change long enough)[04:08:16] <thotypous> hehe[04:14:40] *** Kernel86 has joined #Haiku[04:31:35] *** helf2 has quit IRC[04:44:46] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[04:47:16] *** thotypous has quit IRC[04:47:55] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[04:59:17] *** mmadia has quit IRC[05:00:06] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[05:02:03] <DeadYak> DHowett: how's it going?[05:02:22] <DHowett> Pretty well; how about yourself?[05:02:39] <DeadYak> can't complain :)[05:03:01] <DHowett> :)[05:14:09] *** daste has quit IRC[05:26:14] *** Koki7 has joined #haiku[05:26:24] <Koki7> hello haiku folks[05:28:12] <DHowett> 'lo Koki7.[05:28:42] <Koki7> hey DHowett[05:28:51] <Koki7> what's new in the Haiku world these days?[05:29:35] <DHowett> I can't say I'm qualified to say.. been hanging at the very fringe of the community lately =\[05:31:40] <DeadYak> Koki7: lots of bugfixes and stuff the past few days[05:31:48] <DeadYak> ongoing code sprint :)[05:32:04] <Koki7> code sprint... nice![05:32:27] <DeadYak> put it another way, there were something like 60 commits today[05:33:06] <Koki7> yay[05:33:16] <umccullough> lol, couldn't stay away eh? ;)[05:33:22] * DHowett consumes glyphs.[05:33:26] <DeadYak> evening urias[05:33:37] <Koki7> hey umccullough[05:34:40] <Koki7> ping Gareth[05:35:23] * anarchos throws a fire extinguisher at koki[05:36:27] <DHowett> I'm not quite sure what to make of this.[05:36:59] <anarchos> ever see super troopers?[05:37:13] <DHowett> Nope ;)[05:37:14] <Koki7> anarchos, I live in norcal :)[05:37:27] <anarchos> at the end, people are throwing stuff at the drugged out kid and everytime he got hit he would say 'ping!'[05:37:28] <DeadYak> DHowett: make of what?[05:37:37] <anarchos> then farva throws a fire extinguisher at him[05:37:41] <DHowett> DeadYak: The fire extinguisher bit :)[05:37:43] <DeadYak> oh[05:38:29] * Koki7 thinks he may have missed the point on the fire extinguisher comment from anarchos[05:38:33] <umccullough> DeadYak, lots of good commits today?[05:38:43] <DeadYak> umccullough: some interesting stuff, yeah[05:38:45] <anarchos> i apologise[05:38:59] <Koki7> anarchos, no big deal[05:39:01] <Koki7> :)[05:39:07] <umccullough> i really haven't had time to digest the commits lately[05:39:19] <anarchos> :)[05:40:07] *** Koki7 has quit IRC[05:40:12] *** anarchos has quit IRC[05:40:29] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[05:40:37] *** Koki2 has joined #haiku[05:42:17] <Koki2> ouch... firefox crashed[05:42:43] <DeadYak> wb[05:50:47] <Koki2> oh... 21K+ views > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAc-NDR35Sk[05:51:53] <anarchos> heh[06:02:21] * umccullough should do a "Haiku under heavy load" video ;)[06:02:34] <umccullough> just too lazy to set it all up i guess[06:02:58] <umccullough> Koki2, btw - i believe that APIC timer issues that caused the performance degradation for you may be fixed now[06:04:03] <AlienSoldier> running many video is too easy now, what about running all neogeo game all at once :)[06:04:13] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC[06:09:19] <Koki2> umccullough, you mean I should now be able to run 20 videos at the same time w/o dropped sound & video frames? :)[06:10:07] <umccullough> lol, sure ;)[06:13:10] <Koki2> well, don't have any BFS partitions anymore, so it will have to wait[06:15:58] <Koki2> would be nice if I could try haiku on my dual core machine, but it would have to be on a partition at the higher end of my 500GB HDD, which Haiku does not support (or at least, it did not until recently)[06:17:37] <DeadYak> Koki2: that was fixed this week[06:19:13] *** Monni has left #Haiku[06:20:12] <anarchos> what about ram, can you use 4gb? (or 3.5 or whatever it works out too)[06:23:35] <Koki2> DeadYak, is LB48 now supported then?[06:23:50] <Koki2> *LBA48[06:24:45] <DeadYak> Koki2: it's now supported correctly, yes.[06:24:53] <Koki2> oh, nice[06:25:16] <DeadYak> anarchos: in theory sure, in practice it will wind up being eaten into by your graphics frame buffer and a few other things[06:25:28] <DeadYak> also note that haiku's addres space is a 2GB split, so 2GB of that will be usable by apps, max[06:25:54] <umccullough> you can use 4gb without haiku crashing now at least ;)[06:26:08] <umccullough> before, the MTRRs were incorrectly detected[06:26:20] <umccullough> but that was months ago that it was fixed[06:26:36] <DeadYak> yeah, I remember Korli fixing that[06:26:48] *** thebolt|away is now known as thebolt[06:26:53] <Gareth> umccullough: ping[06:27:03] <Koki2> hey Gareth![06:27:04] <umccullough> Gareth, ping Koki2[06:27:13] <Gareth> Koki2: hey :)[06:27:31] <Gareth> Koki2: I thought you were out :)[06:27:48] <Koki2> just visiting Gareth :)[06:28:04] <Gareth> ah okay cool.[06:31:49] <Koki2> cool... Anthy for Haiku > http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4902467[06:36:19] <anarchos> all i see is some crazy japanese stuff going on :P[06:36:28] <anarchos> login box?[06:37:18] <Koki2> ah, yeah, you need to login...[06:37:35] <DeadYak> I forget, Anthy's a CKJ IME isn't it?[06:38:00] <Koki2> that is correct DeadYak[06:38:14] <Koki2> it is the IME of choice in open source OSes[06:38:17] <DeadYak> cool[06:40:14] * JonathanThompson purrs into the channel in sausage links[06:40:25] * DHowett consumes JonathanThompson's glyphs.[06:40:36] <JonathanThompson> GIGO[06:40:46] * JonathanThompson awaits DHowett's output, tremulously[06:40:52] <DHowett> [I don't know. The concept of something consuming glyphs came from a commit message i read recently in haiku][06:40:57] * DHowett is not sure how to respond to that.[06:41:07] <DHowett> :P[06:41:20] <DeadYak> DHowett: hah[06:41:26] <JonathanThompson> You know, it could sound so wrong, you just waiting to eat my sausages...[06:41:32] *** thebolt is now known as thebolt|away[06:41:36] <DHowett> [bride's cake.][06:41:39] <DHowett> DeadYak: :)[06:41:51] <DeadYak> I remember that commit :)[06:43:00] <Gareth> Koki2: hm. so since Koki2 has "retired", whose interested in heading up the Haiku presence at SCALE 7x? :)[06:43:22] *** M199 has joined #haiku[06:43:38] <Koki2> umccullough would be a good candidate, Gareth :)[06:43:52] <Koki2> together with BGA, of course[06:44:17] <Gareth> Okay cool.[06:44:32] <umccullough> Gareth, i'd like to do SCaLE, but i'm not sure I'll be able to attend personally[06:44:52] <umccullough> I can certainly help prep for it[06:45:25] <Gareth> Okay. where are you based?[06:46:03] *** Rakhun has quit IRC[06:46:38] <umccullough> Gareth, i'm north of Sacramento[06:46:54] <Gareth> ah okay..[06:47:13] <umccullough> a trip to socal is kinda expensive for me ;)[06:47:34] *** Master199 has quit IRC[06:47:34] *** M199 is now known as Master199[06:48:32] <Gareth> yeah. it can be..[06:48:45] <Koki2> Gareth, there is a local Haiku guy (Joe) who has helped us the last two years[06:48:58] <Gareth> shaved head and glasses?[06:49:13] <Koki2> yep, that's him :)[06:49:20] <umccullough> and also, Doug Shelton is in the socal area[06:49:27] <Koki2> true[06:49:28] <umccullough> aka tigerdog[06:49:44] <Koki2> but he seems to always be very busy :)[06:49:53] <umccullough> i know that feeling ;)[06:52:35] <Koki2> Gareth, have you talked to BGA?[06:53:53] <Gareth> Koki2: yes. I mentoned the CFP was out for SCALE...and mentioned that we're looking for dotORG exhibitors.[06:54:39] <Koki2> cool[06:58:05] *** hdanak has quit IRC[07:02:43] <Koki2> Gareth, did you by any chance attend the Ohio LinuxFest?[07:04:09] * umccullough notes that was a disappointment for Haiku[07:04:19] <umccullough> as in, nobody ended up going AFAIK[07:05:46] <umccullough> bbiab[07:05:51] <Koki2> umccullough, is that so?[07:10:39] <Koki2> oh oh... Karl writing open letters to Haiku Inc... :P[07:11:24] <DeadYak> Karl vom Dorff?[07:11:31] <Koki2> yes[07:12:02] <Koki2> http://www.haikuware.com/20081012248/dear-haiku-inc[07:12:25] <Koki2> it's fun to catch up with all the Haiku stuff :)[07:13:19] <DeadYak> that open letter ignores a simple problem though[07:13:35] <DeadYak> one of the HCD students was going to be paid for by the google money for the GSoC students[07:13:50] <geist> beos, it's the os[07:13:54] <DeadYak> hah[07:13:55] <geist> just hit that in my playlist[07:13:58] <DeadYak> that song kicks ass[07:14:13] <geist> one of the many alternate versions that were recorded[07:14:21] <DeadYak> there were alternate versions?[07:15:59] <DeadYak> ugh, crap, how did it get to be 12:15 already[07:16:15] <geist> TIME MARCHES ON[07:16:21] <Koki2> one second at a time, DeadYak[07:16:21] *** thebolt|away is now known as thebolt[07:16:23] <JonathanThompson> Time marches inexorably forward for us rather simple beings[07:16:40] <geist> FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS[07:16:41] * JonathanThompson wonders if geist is riding the wave he is[07:19:24] <Koki2> http://www.teachwithmovies.org/guides/for-whom-the-bell-tolls-DVDcover.jpg[07:27:00] *** M199 has joined #haiku[07:30:15] <Koki2> ok, good night folks[07:30:32] *** Koki2 has quit IRC[07:34:46] *** Stefan100 has joined #haiku[07:36:49] *** anarchos has quit IRC[07:40:07] *** Master199 has quit IRC[07:40:08] *** M199 is now known as Master199[07:50:20] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[07:57:40] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[08:06:51] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[08:09:16] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[08:14:54] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[08:55:41] *** thebolt is now known as thebolt|away[09:07:12] *** silverpower has quit IRC[09:32:40] *** AndrevS has quit IRC[09:39:12] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[09:39:12] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[09:57:43] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku[09:57:46] <ddew|bofh> g'morning[09:58:48] <ddew|bofh> gah, my macbook is pissing me off[09:59:07] <ddew|bofh> great design but it's the most crippled machine i've ever used[10:05:40] <CIA-5> mmlr * r28119 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/os/driver_settings.c:[10:05:40] <CIA-5> Initialize the parameters to NULL so that a later reload doesn't try to free[10:05:40] <CIA-5> uninitialized memory. Fixes a crash on boot with a preloaded settings file[10:05:40] <CIA-5> present that wasn't used before the boot device was available (like the vm[10:05:40] <CIA-5> settings file).[10:07:39] <CIA-5> mmlr * r28120 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/os/driver_settings.c: Fix typo.[10:09:31] <DHowett> ddew|bofh: See the new ones?[10:10:44] <ddew|bofh> yeah[10:11:10] <HeTo> is the old plastic screen matte or glossy btw?[10:11:23] <ddew|bofh> glossy[10:11:30] <ddew|bofh> and led backlighting[10:11:33] <ddew|bofh> atleast mine is :)[10:11:48] <ddew|bofh> but regardless, i'm starting to think it was a crappy buy[10:12:15] <ddew|bofh> great battery time and sexy hardware doesn't make up for being crippled[10:13:48] <HeTo> then I might consider getting the new one for the NVidia and the looks[10:14:28] *** adb has quit IRC[10:15:09] <HeTo> although I'll probably hate the glass but maybe I won't hate it that much more than a normaal glossy screen[10:15:46] <ddew|bofh> glossy screen is ok but if you want to run anything but mac os x and dual boot with windows you're SOL[10:16:05] <ddew|bofh> unless they've done some radical changes in the new revision[10:19:23] *** adb has joined #haiku[10:26:40] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[10:28:38] *** Hoern has joined #Haiku[10:30:12] <anarchos> windows won't run on glossy screens? :P[10:30:29] <ddew|bofh> eh?[10:30:31] <Hoern> hi[10:30:37] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[10:31:27] <anarchos> "if you want to run anything but mac os x" makes it sound like only mac os will run on glossy screens[10:31:38] <anarchos> :P[10:31:58] <ddew|bofh> no it doesn't, unless you're too retarded to read the rest of the sentence :)[10:33:39] <ddew|bofh> gah, this is really pissing me off. i just can't get rid of os x[10:34:28] <anarchos> i still don't get it. :P[10:35:24] <ddew|bofh> ok, i'll simplify. you can forget about easily running anything but mac os x and possibly dual boot with windows[10:35:47] <ddew|bofh> gettting rid of mac os x entirely is unpossible and running any other oses on it is problematic[10:37:03] <anarchos> oooh i see[10:37:16] <anarchos> why get rid of os x? :P[10:37:20] * anarchos hugs his macbook[10:37:48] <ddew|bofh> because os x is annoying and troublesome[10:38:04] <geist> oh?[10:38:08] <geist> do tell ddew|bofh[10:38:14] <geist> why can't you run anything else on it?[10:39:06] <ddew|bofh> it's technically some of the time if you want to run linux and can accept not all your hardware working[10:39:20] <ddew|bofh> still requires a version of os x installed[10:39:24] <ddew|bofh> *technically possible[10:39:24] <geist> oh?[10:39:27] <geist> why so?[10:39:39] <DHowett> Why? I mean. The EFI handles booting the operating system...[10:39:50] * geist looks over at his macbook with ubuntu on it[10:39:59] * geist wonders how it must not exist, and yet exists[10:40:06] * DHowett looks over at his Aspire One with OS X on it.[10:40:07] * ddew|bofh looks at his macbook with ubuntu on it too.[10:40:12] <DHowett> Oh wait, that doesn't lend to the discussion.[10:40:26] * geist looks over at his VAX[10:40:36] <DHowett> Mmm, vaxen :P[10:41:16] * geist wonders how i am able to not have OSX on this machine[10:41:22] <geist> being that ddew|bofh says it is unpossible[10:41:39] <ddew|bofh> to get it fully working[10:41:49] <geist> ...[10:41:54] <ddew|bofh> hence the use of the term unpossible as opposed to impossible[10:42:18] <geist> okay, gonna cut off the fud here. you can put windows and/or ubuntu on a mac just fine[10:42:29] <geist> you'll have the usual driver issues with any other laptop[10:42:34] <geist> may or may not have the right drivers for wifi, etc[10:42:41] <geist> but there's nothing special about macs[10:42:46] <ddew|bofh> windows is no problem, unless you want to use the touchpad or something[10:42:59] <geist> dude, cut the fud man[10:43:03] <ddew|bofh> and linux works a lot of the time[10:43:11] <geist> it works fine[10:43:26] <geist> at least, it works as well as any other laptop. there's nothing special about it[10:43:32] <ddew|bofh> oh it does? not according to various bugzillas[10:43:50] <geist> works fine for me. most annoying thing is the single button actually[10:43:56] <geist> but i mostly use an external mouse anyway[10:44:01] <geist> and there's some sort of hack for that[10:44:21] <geist> sleep works, mostly, wifi works, etc[10:44:22] <ddew|bofh> it's running way hot for me[10:44:37] <geist> perhaps, I mostly run it tethered[10:44:47] <geist> i wouldn't be surprised if the linux power management isn't as good[10:44:55] <geist> i knowthe apple guys tweaked the hell out of it[10:45:06] <geist> and it's pretty tuned for that exact machine[10:45:06] <ddew|bofh> and getting battery status working occasionally requires me to unplug it, pull the battery and reboot[10:45:40] <geist> okay, but how do you extrapolate this to 'all macs dont work', and the implicit reverse of that which is 'everything that's non macs will work fine'[10:45:55] *** leszek_fh has joined #haiku[10:45:57] <geist> i postulate that pretty much any given random laptop is gonna have similar issues with linux[10:46:08] <leszek_fh> hi[10:46:13] <geist> some may have better supported hardware, some may not[10:46:18] <ddew|bofh> i've never stated that all macs don't work[10:46:32] <ddew|bofh> i said that other oses on macbooks is problematic[10:46:44] <geist> and that it's unpossible to not have OSX on it[10:46:56] <geist> it was pretty strong wording. even if you didn't state anything precisely, you implied all sorts of stuff[10:47:18] <geist> and yes, you're gonna get me on a technicality[10:47:24] <geist> i'm going on what i read into your statement[10:47:37] <ddew|bofh> not my problem :)[10:47:50] <ddew|bofh> people are free to read anything into what i say, it's their right[10:47:52] <geist> it is the responsibility of the speaker to get their ideas across clearly[10:48:12] <geist> or risk being misinterpreted, and thus have to deal with the fallout, which is very much their problem[10:48:19] <ddew|bofh> if that's what their intention is[10:48:39] <ddew|bofh> on occasion people enjoy venting their frustration[10:48:47] <geist> LIES![10:48:53] <geist> IRC IS ALL ABOUT TRUF[10:49:00] <CIA-5> axeld * r28121 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/BlockAllocator.cpp:[10:49:00] <CIA-5> * Fixed another check, the warning "first free too late" was printed even[10:49:00] <CIA-5> though there was no problem.[10:49:00] <CIA-5> * Nevertheless, improved output of that warning :-)[10:49:15] <ddew|bofh> heh[10:49:28] <geist> (and while we argue on the internet, someone toils away making great things)[10:49:29] <ddew|bofh> hopefully i'll get graphics working here soonish[10:49:46] <geist> anyway, i actually went back to osx + vmware with linux on it[10:49:58] <geist> linux worked well enough on the laptop, but not that much better than just vmware[10:50:01] <geist> so this way i got both[10:50:12] <geist> it's a work machine, we use ubuntu as the standard desktop[10:50:29] * anarchos shudders at the thought of polluting his macbook with linux ;)[10:50:49] * geist leaves most of his linux boxes headless, in a dark room[10:50:55] <geist> like God intended for unix to be[10:51:00] <ddew|bofh> my problem is that i don't use mac os x and would ideally want either a linux/other dualboot or strictly windows on it[10:51:08] <ddew|bofh> hehe[10:51:21] <anarchos> i gave linux a chance for about 10 years[10:51:27] <geist> yeah, but if you dont use osx there's a whole lot less of a reason to get a mac[10:51:35] <geist> unless you just really like the pretty case[10:51:38] <ddew|bofh> i run linux on servers and occasionally to build haiku. that's it[10:51:46] <anarchos> ok[10:51:51] <anarchos> linux for server = good[10:51:57] <anarchos> linux for desktop = not so good[10:52:08] <geist> i have to say, ubuntu on a well supported box aint half bad[10:52:16] <ddew|bofh> i really like the hardware, and it's a pretty good bang for the buck on the mbp[10:52:29] <geist> once you install a good terminal (xfce4-term, or whatever it was) and some real fonts (mscorefonts, Monaco)[10:52:32] <DHowett> ... you're serious.[10:52:35] <ddew|bofh> backlit kbd, high-red screen with led backlighting and excellent battery time[10:53:03] <geist> it runs firefox well enough, i can play music, and it lets me get work done with less of an incentive to go play games[10:53:07] <DHowett> but the price point. comparable computers are dwarfed, nay, sucked up in DROVES into that price.[10:53:34] <ddew|bofh> not really, there's more to hardware than just the parts[10:53:42] <geist> ddew|bofh: yep, and the new case looks great. the shiny screen does not[10:53:48] <anarchos> i found with linux, i spent hours and hours and hours getting it "just right"[10:53:48] <ddew|bofh> there's also stuff like build quality, ease of maintenance etc to think of[10:53:52] <anarchos> while i had fun doing it[10:54:03] <anarchos> i realized how much time i was wasting doing nothing productive.[10:54:06] <DHowett> ddew|bofh: Unless you got an air. No maintenance whatsoever, at least for you ;)[10:54:10] <anarchos> so i bought a mac :P[10:54:34] <ddew|bofh> DHowett: as long as i can upgrade ram and harddrive i'm good :)[10:54:36] <geist> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360095019639[10:54:39] <geist> SNAKE PROOF[10:54:42] <DHowett> ddew|bofh: :)[10:55:08] <DHowett> HAHA[10:55:11] <DHowett> geist: love it.[10:55:12] <ddew|bofh> and hardware battery meters are nice to have :)[10:55:25] <DHowett> ddew|bofh: dell got that one right years in advance.[10:56:12] <ddew|bofh> i've played around with some xps laptops and to me they felt plastic[10:56:41] <DHowett> geist: further love the description,. "And toss that little devil in there."[10:56:45] <ddew|bofh> it's not like i went out and blindly bought a macbook because i like how they look :)[10:56:50] <DHowett> ddew|bofh: the xps yes..[10:56:55] <DHowett> ddew|bofh: of course, understandably[10:57:11] <DHowett> a particular gem: If your baby gets to be longer than about 19", you'll have to lay him on his side and fold him up a little. It won't hurt'm. They're made to fold.[10:57:13] <geist> snakes in a crib man[10:58:01] <ddew|bofh> Notice there's even a coil spring at each corner so "what's-his-name" doesn't get beaten around too badly as you roll his cage out back.[10:58:06] <ddew|bofh> nice little gem[10:59:24] <geist> well, he kids about snakes, but when i used to live near houston we would occasionally find snakes in the house[10:59:32] <geist> once in the entryway, must have come in through the door[10:59:35] <geist> not a bad one[10:59:46] <geist> and one particularly bad case where there was a copperhead wrapped around the toilet[10:59:53] <geist> must have come up through the pipes[11:00:00] <geist> and those guys are poisonous[11:00:13] <ddew|bofh> gnarly[11:00:32] <ddew|bofh> things like that makes me glad i live in an apartment downtown[11:02:40] <anarchos> i have a friend who's into snakes. it's kinda weird. i came home after being away for a couple years and he's covered in tattoos and has like 5 illegal snakes[11:02:53] <geist> snakes are pretty cool[11:03:07] <geist> i grew up where they were everywhere. you could go out and find out in 5 minutes if you wanted to[11:03:14] <anarchos> he is currently being evicted from his apartment because of the snakes[11:03:24] <geist> so you learn to respect em and leave em alone[11:03:44] <CIA-5> zooey * r28122 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/debug/tracing.cpp:[11:03:44] <CIA-5> bonefish + zooey:[11:03:44] <CIA-5> * added tracing of stack traces to userspace entries[11:05:24] <geist> like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CopperheadInLeavesCU.JPG was my backyard[11:06:01] * anarchos wonders if there would be a big enough market in Vancouver for a dedicated chess store[11:09:12] *** DHowett has left #haiku[11:09:51] *** slaad has quit IRC[11:10:31] *** slaad has joined #haiku[11:11:53] <CIA-5> axeld * r28123 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/BlockAllocator.cpp:[11:11:53] <CIA-5> Cleanup in AllocateBlocks():[11:11:53] <CIA-5> * Replaced "group" with groupIndex, "group" is now a reference to the[11:11:53] <CIA-5> AllocationGroup.[11:11:53] <CIA-5> * Renamed some variables for clarity.[11:11:54] <CIA-5> * No functional change.[11:19:29] *** Hoern has quit IRC[11:21:00] <ddew|bofh> yay, love the economic rebound :D[11:21:25] *** slaad has quit IRC[11:21:28] <ddew|bofh> made 3K euros in three days[11:22:06] <mmu_man> I'm not there yet[11:22:23] <mmu_man> ADP.FR went up to 90EUR last year...[11:24:28] <ddew|bofh> i've got mostly samsung[11:24:59] <ddew|bofh> well not mostly, but a lot[11:25:22] <ddew|bofh> and it going from 136 to 167 was nice[11:28:16] <CIA-5> zooey * r28124 /haiku/trunk/ (31 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)[11:28:16] <CIA-5> bonefish + zooey:[11:28:16] <CIA-5> * Fixed a general problem with respect to overriding of the reserved[11:28:16] <CIA-5> virtual function slots: instead of statically invoking the method[11:28:16] <CIA-5> that corresponds to the reserved slot on the class that contains the[11:28:17] <CIA-5> slot, we now invoke the virtual Perform() method. Perform() then dispatches[11:28:21] <CIA-5> the method invocation to the "proper" class, i.e. the highest class in the[11:30:59] *** cherrylap has joined #haiku[11:34:17] * anarchos also loves the economic shit going down[11:34:35] <anarchos> i made about $2100 with the canadian dollar TANKING compared to teh US[11:34:56] <ddew|bofh> i'm just glad i don't have any amrican investements :)[11:35:00] <ddew|bofh> *american[11:35:34] * anarchos just had USD[11:35:37] <anarchos> not investments[11:36:28] <anarchos> i almost pulled the trigger when the cdn got to .95 then i was too lazy[11:36:45] <ddew|bofh> can't wait for this whole mess to stabilize. my moodswings over the past few weeks has been insane :)[11:36:48] <anarchos> and with my good luck it fell the biggest amount ever in history the day after i was gonna do it :)[11:37:05] <ddew|bofh> one day i lost 5K and the next I made 6K and so on[11:37:53] <anarchos> i'd say get out now :P[11:37:57] <mmu_man> w00t, BeOS praised on ibm.com :D[11:37:58] <mmu_man> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-beos.html[11:38:23] <anarchos> you know that the largest single day gain before this current mess was like the day of the stock market crash in the late 20s early 30s[11:43:23] <geist> haha, *after* beos focus shifted too[11:49:34] <mmu_man> 2001 :)[11:50:25] <mmu_man> "On its intrinsic merits, BeOS R5 is probably the best desktop operating system you can find nowadays. "[11:50:29] <mmu_man> :))[11:57:12] *** leszek_fh has quit IRC[11:58:21] <anarchos> lol[11:58:52] <geist> yeah, that guy picked a real winner[11:59:05] <anarchos> especially for web development[11:59:06] <geist> like 2 months later be ceased to exist[11:59:31] <anarchos> couldn't think of worst platform for webdev[11:59:36] <anarchos> with the lack of browsers, etc[12:00:16] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[12:02:20] <anarchos> http://www.PalinAsPresident.com/ hahaha[12:02:32] * geist is scared to look at that[12:03:44] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[12:04:20] <anarchos> is hilarity[12:04:34] <geist> heh[12:04:53] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[12:12:32] <ddew|bofh> ok, please tell me that she never said iranistan[12:13:35] *** Yaroze has quit IRC[12:13:43] <Teknomancer> lol[12:17:17] <ddew|bofh> omfg, i so did not know that. palin herself is the originator of the lipstick pitbull[12:19:04] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[12:24:02] <CIA-5> axeld * r28125 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/ (TermConst.h TermView.cpp TermView.h):[12:24:02] <CIA-5> * When resizing the Terminal, we now show a small BStringView that displays the[12:24:02] <CIA-5> current size of the Terminal in characters.[12:24:02] <CIA-5> * Minor cleanup.[12:31:17] *** _maniac_ has joined #haiku[12:32:58] <geist> ddew|bofh: yeah[12:33:03] <geist> she's nuts, and that's really scary[12:33:06] <geist> i know the type[12:33:21] <geist> to think she'd be that close to the presidency...[12:33:29] <ddew|bofh> i feel sorry for you americans, if mccain wins she's probably gonna be the president within a few years[12:33:49] <geist> yeah, especially that, since there's a very nonzero chance she'd be prez[12:34:00] <ddew|bofh> the guy's 72, the stress of being in charge of the worlds mightiest country will kill him[12:34:00] <geist> she's scarier than bush, though they're from the same mold[12:34:28] <ddew|bofh> the thing that frightens me the most is having someone who believes that rapture is imminent in charge of the nuclear football[12:34:35] <geist> the sad thing is mccain isn't a bad guy, it's just as soon as you get into the election machine you gotta tow the line[12:34:38] <anarchos> but he's a POW. what doesn't kill him makes him stronger![12:35:06] <ddew|bofh> just look at bush, when he became president 8 years ago he looked young, now he looks 80 :)[12:35:11] <geist> i have a lot of respect for the guy, and not just the POW stuff. he just has lost a lot of control as soon as you enter the machine[12:35:19] <anarchos> hah. mccain not a bad guy? more like 'slightly-less-evil-then-the-rest-of-the-evil-motherfuckers'[12:35:42] <geist> oh man i wish he had beaten bush a few years back[12:35:48] <geist> he at least isn't a total nutjob[12:35:56] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i'm sure he's very well qualified and he even regained some of my respect when he urged the people at his rallies to stop bashing obama.[12:36:12] <geist> yeah.[12:36:14] <anarchos> bah[12:36:15] <ddew|bofh> but i seriously doubt his judgement in choosing palin as a vp[12:36:18] <geist> hell no if i'll vote for him[12:36:27] <geist> and yeah, the palin thing is totally lame[12:36:30] <anarchos> that thing was a ploy[12:36:37] <geist> clearly just to get elected, not a real choice[12:36:39] <anarchos> that woman who called obama was a plant[12:36:42] <ddew|bofh> anarchos: stating the fucking obvious :P[12:36:45] <geist> whereas biden, he's a good guy[12:36:50] <anarchos> called obama an arab :P[12:36:54] <geist> probably not even the best choice for vp for getting elected[12:37:12] <anarchos> biden sucks too[12:37:20] * anarchos is a bitter canadian[12:37:22] <geist> he's a smart guy that listens to experts[12:37:23] <ddew|bofh> she's proven to be utterly unqualified for any serious political work[12:37:33] <geist> that's the key, we need smart people that surround themselves with other smart people[12:37:38] <ddew|bofh> indeed[12:37:39] <geist> not just go off and do their own thing (bush, palin)[12:37:45] <anarchos> everyone, mccain, palin, obama, biden, they're all the fucking same[12:37:48] <ddew|bofh> where i think obama's made a better choice of vp[12:38:03] <anarchos> i thought obama had a chance to be different, but not after his vote for the telecom immunity[12:38:06] <ddew|bofh> biden is insanely qualified imo[12:38:07] <geist> anarchos: mostly, except for bush and palin, they're off the scale[12:38:09] <anarchos> just shows he's the fuckin' same as the rest[12:38:30] <geist> that's the really weird thing about this election, almost everyone is senators[12:38:39] <geist> which almost never happens, becuas eyou have an endless supply of dirt[12:38:44] <anarchos> yeah but when it comes down to it, the real issue, that being that major corporations control this world, nothing changes[12:38:45] <geist> governers are pretty safe[12:39:37] <geist> senators you can always go dig up a bill they had to vote for or against for reasons that are not obvious (had too much pork, wanted more pork, etc)[12:39:51] <geist> it's not cut n' dry[12:40:18] <geist> OTOH at least they're senators and not representatives[12:40:42] <geist> senators are supposed to be a little more autonomous and not just follow their constituents (sp?)[12:40:54] <ddew|bofh> as i'm not an american i haven't looked to deeply into the underpinnings of the lections. i have a basic grasp of how it works and who the candidates are. and from what i've seen so far obama appears to be more grounded in reality[12:41:09] <ddew|bofh> *too[12:41:16] <geist> yeah, my big fear is once he gets elected he'll end up being another Carter[12:41:24] <geist> on the other hand at this point that may be what we need[12:41:27] <geist> I dunno[12:41:41] <anarchos> you guys need to stop electing fucked up people :P[12:41:45] <anarchos> including obama[12:41:50] <ddew|bofh> judging by how mccain's handled himself lately i'm not sure of his capabilities[12:41:53] <geist> oh come on, your country is just as fucked[12:42:01] <geist> i hear about it all the time from canadians at work[12:42:05] <anarchos> i don't debate that[12:42:10] <ddew|bofh> america has potential to become the greatest country on earth again[12:42:21] <ddew|bofh> once you get rid of the religious wackos in office[12:42:46] <geist> thankfully at least this election isn't setting itself up as a 'values' election[12:42:58] <geist> mccain isn't that guy, obama isn't that guy[12:43:08] <geist> at least neither of them are nutjobs[12:43:14] <anarchos> what we (US/CAN/World) need to do (and im serious) is ban all existing political parties. and then ban any person who's ever been a member of any political party from every participating in politics again[12:43:21] <geist> that values bullshit was insane[12:43:22] <anarchos> then, there might be a fighting chance[12:43:23] <ddew|bofh> it's pretty ironic that a country funded by pantheists on atheistic values is so obsessed with religion[12:43:50] <geist> anarchos: living up to your namesake i see[12:44:43] <anarchos> nothing will ever change[12:44:53] <ddew|bofh> anarchos: so you want people with zero experience of politics running world affairs? it's like asking a surgical procedure to be made by a car mechanic[12:45:05] <ddew|bofh> worst. idea. ever.[12:45:54] *** aljen has quit IRC[12:46:25] <anarchos> US goes republican, democrate, republican, back and forth, and what really ever happens? NOTHING. you have healthcare? have you quit invading/fucking with other countries? etc etc[12:46:33] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[12:46:52] <anarchos> sure there are some issues-of-the-day that get addressed, but when it comes down to it, they're all the same party[12:47:23] <anarchos> same with canada. conservative, liberal...what the difference? absolutly nothing of value[12:47:25] <ddew|bofh> well do you know of another way that's proven to work?[12:48:00] <geist> hmm, wish i could put more ram in this laptop[12:48:11] <geist> only 2GB, starts to hurt a bit on OSX with a couple of login sessions[12:48:14] <anarchos> stalin's purges? ;p[12:48:24] <ddew|bofh> maybe stalinism or even a theocracy?[12:48:35] <geist> one thign OSX aint is memory efficient[12:48:58] <anarchos> ddew|bofh: first step would be breaking up nations into much smaller pieces[12:49:21] <geist> anarchos: oh come on, dont be so naieve[12:49:23] <anarchos> ie states and provinces are their own deals. maybe some loose affiliations to help with trade[12:49:27] <geist> a lot of shit happens.[12:49:47] <geist> it can always be a *lot* worse[12:49:59] <anarchos> but it could be a lot better[12:50:02] <geist> could be living in the Congo or something[12:50:20] <geist> someone said the best thing about the US is it's totally predictable[12:50:21][12:50:25] <anarchos> yup. and if i lived in the congo i'd strive to make it better, too[12:50:29] <geist> and with that comes stability[12:50:39] <geist> anarchos: yeah but you probably died as an infant. game over[12:51:19] <ddew|bofh> fuck progress and improvements, we should go back to how we lived 15000 years ago[12:51:21] <geist> dont be so naive[12:51:22] <anarchos> so you're one of those "love it or leave it" people, huh?[12:51:41] <anarchos> there is never, ever anything wrong with striving to make society a better place.[12:51:45] <geist> i'm a realist, humans are involved, so you have to deal with them[12:51:59] <geist> anarchos: of course. but how you go about it varies[12:52:08] <geist> tearing it all down is not necessarilly the best strategy[12:52:13] <ddew|bofh> striving making a society better is awesome, but do your homework first[12:52:33] <anarchos> geist: if you dont 'tear it all down', nothing will change.[12:52:39] <geist> wrong.[12:53:57] <ddew|bofh> tearing it all down would mean that we'd have to start from scratch, losing roughly 2000 years of experience in the process[12:54:09] <ddew|bofh> that's just stupid[12:54:30] <anarchos> i'm not saying we go back to living in caves and having no accumulated human knowledge[12:55:33] <ddew|bofh> but what you're proposing is essentially getting rid of democracy and starting over[12:55:49] <anarchos> no[12:55:54] <anarchos> starting over...yes[12:56:09] <anarchos> democracy is vital[12:56:32] <ddew|bofh> democracy hinges on people actually knowing what the system is, how it works and how to deal with issues that pop up[12:57:01] <anarchos> hah, i bet you 95% of canadians have no idea how their government works[12:57:30] <anarchos> ask anyone anything besides a very very basic question and they will all be stumped[12:57:32] <ddew|bofh> which is why they're not running it[12:58:58] <ddew|bofh> the reasoning that most people don't know politics well enough to run a country is the reasoning behind representative democracy[13:00:28] <anarchos> exactly[13:03:04] <anarchos> but my vision for canada is a hybrid parliamentary/republic system (porportional representation, no first-past-the-post) combined with much smaller governing areas, so people actually have a chance at knowing what's going on[13:03:46] <ddew|bofh> you're assuming that most people would want to know everything that's going on[13:04:17] <anarchos> right[13:04:24] <anarchos> but, here's where it gets awesome[13:04:31] <ddew|bofh> and proportinal representation isn't all it's cracked up to be, neither are smaller governing areas[13:05:07] <anarchos> so say i have my MP, and i think he does a good job (i voted for him, afterall), so everything works pretty much as it does now[13:05:49] <anarchos> but where my plan deviates is, that every citizen would be able to vote online, on an issue-by-issue basis[13:05:59] <ddew|bofh> proportional representation makes for difficult decision-making as well, there's been some unholy alliances here[13:06:08] <ddew|bofh> direct democracy?[13:06:13] <ddew|bofh> are you nuts?[13:06:17] <anarchos> hybrid direct[13:06:55] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku[13:06:57] <anarchos> what im trying to say is basically every person in the country gets one vote for everything in the house. but say i dont want to vote (like 90% wont)[13:07:11] <anarchos> then my MP casts my vote for me[13:07:13] <ddew|bofh> a system where a tv commercial can have more impact on the politics rather than actual investigation of issues?[13:07:17] <ddew|bofh> sheesh[13:07:30] <ddew|bofh> it'd be a lobbying hell[13:07:34] <anarchos> there would need to be some checks and balances[13:07:43] <ddew|bofh> "vote nay os issue 152 and get a free ham"[13:07:50] <ddew|bofh> *nay on issue[13:08:02] <anarchos> i've been thinking the same thing[13:08:26] <ddew|bofh> and not to mention peer pressure[13:09:24] *** cherrylap has quit IRC[13:10:18] <anarchos> ....maybe we create 300 'ghost' seats in parliament. where we have a regular parliament with 304 seats. then we have 304 ghost seats. the ghosts seats would be controlled by direct voting[13:10:33] <anarchos> or maybe not a 300/300 split. but people should have the balance of power[13:10:40] <ddew|bofh> sort of like how we vote on important questions here then[13:11:05] <anarchos> huh?[13:11:21] <ddew|bofh> yeah, we already do something similar called public votes[13:11:50] <ddew|bofh> on things like joining the eu, joining the emu or nuclear power[13:12:04] <anarchos> yea, kinda[13:12:09] <anarchos> but much more accessable[13:12:13] <anarchos> being online[13:12:38] <ddew|bofh> are you nuts?[13:12:54] <ddew|bofh> online voting, do you have any idea how insecure that is?[13:13:07] <anarchos> we'd figure out a way[13:13:53] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:13:53] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[13:14:08] <ddew|bofh> ok, let's say you figure that out. now you just need to solve the two remaining roadblocks of lobbying and education[13:14:20] <anarchos> right[13:14:39] <anarchos> for the lobbying...im thinking the hybrid parliament/direct democracy[13:14:48] <ddew|bofh> or would you like people voting on something they know nothing about because they get free stuff or see a cool commercial?[13:14:58] <anarchos> but there is a huge risk of what you said before, people voting for dumb shit that'll help them out[13:15:05] <ddew|bofh> well duh[13:15:25] <anarchos> that is why, we do a system such as the hybrid direct vote/parliament[13:15:28] <ddew|bofh> that's why we have representative democracy, so that educated people make decisions[13:15:39] <anarchos> where maybe the direct vote portion would be 'less' powerful than the parliament[13:15:50] <anarchos> so maybe it needs 75% support, or something[13:16:14] <ddew|bofh> so in a sense you'd want to give people the illusion that their opinion matters while it really doesn't?[13:16:44] <anarchos> but im thinking of situations like the iraq war (in canada). we had a PM that thank god didn't get us into that mess, but our current PM was all for it before he was PM[13:16:48] <ddew|bofh> color me conservative but i don't like the idea of deception on such a massive scale[13:16:52] <anarchos> and there was huge popular support against it[13:17:26] <anarchos> but if our current PM was PM then we'd be in iraq, so my system would allow people to be the other check in the checks and balance system[13:18:12] <anarchos> ddew|bofh: i dont think it's deception. would be if the parliament wasn't elected. the MPs would still be accountable to their constituancy[13:18:15] <ddew|bofh> and how do you think people would vote if the commercials were saying that canadia was under the threat of fundamental terrorists?[13:19:04] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[13:19:04] *** pyCube has quit IRC[13:19:04] <ddew|bofh> or even if influental countries like the us joined the war and slammed canada for not helping out?[13:19:06] <anarchos> polls (make what you will) put canada at 85% against the iraq invasion[13:19:16] <anarchos> ddew|bofh: exactly what happened.[13:19:44] <anarchos> ddew|bofh: but we had a PM with some balls (and i think the hundreds of thousands in the streets saying 'don't even think about getting involved' helped)[13:19:55] *** cherrylap has joined #haiku[13:20:03] <ddew|bofh> well that was without the people having any influence on the war, how do you think the people would have reacted had there been massive campaigns going on?[13:20:05] <anarchos> but, this is the exact situation im thinking of[13:20:30] <ddew|bofh> politicans are corruptable, people even more so[13:20:56] <anarchos> that's why im sayin' that this direct democracy portion wouldnt be the be all and end all[13:21:08] <anarchos> like people couldnt pass a bill saying "give everyone $1m!!"[13:21:59] <ddew|bofh> why not? if that's what the people want then it should be possible[13:22:29] <anarchos> sure. elect a party that'll give everyone $1m then :P[13:22:46] <anarchos> but what i am thinking is that the people should hold the balance of power[13:23:11] <ddew|bofh> problem with people holding the balance of power is that people are stupid and short sighted[13:23:19] <anarchos> right[13:23:33] <ddew|bofh> meaning that they could essentially block a proposition for the good of the country[13:23:41] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[13:23:47] <anarchos> yup[13:23:55] <anarchos> but who's to say that?[13:23:59] <ddew|bofh> and that's of no worry to you?[13:24:03] <anarchos> everyone though NAFTA was the bees knees[13:24:09] <anarchos> and look how that turned out[13:25:04] <anarchos> anyways im gonna go for a smoke[13:25:41] <ddew|bofh> heh, public support of NAFTA was 70%[13:27:08] <ddew|bofh> even after being in effect for 10 years[13:35:57] <anarchos> support is a loaded word. if you look at 'support' it's very high, but if you look at the numbers who want to reform it, it's huge[13:36:11] <anarchos> i think nafta vs. no free trade at all, people are in support[13:38:09] *** rdmr has quit IRC[13:38:40] <ddew|bofh> i'm not sure what you're proposing here, you mean that if people had more influence an agreement between three countries would somehow be revised?[13:39:36] <anarchos> yes[13:39:54] <ddew|bofh> how?[13:40:31] <ddew|bofh> canada isn't a majority of the countries in the nafta agreement[13:41:02] <anarchos> canada (or the US/Mexico) can unilaterally withdraw[13:41:09] <anarchos> if they wanted[13:41:34] <ddew|bofh> and what impact would pulling out of it have on the canadian economy?[13:41:55] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[13:41:55] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC[13:41:55] *** AlienSoldier has quit 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mmu_man * r28126 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/ (TermScrollView.cpp TermView.cpp): Fix the BeOS build. Yeah I know I'm the only one building Terminal on Zeta...[13:55:51] <mmu_man> anyone here with an audio card that's only supported with an old (R3) API driver in BeOS ?[13:55:57] <mmu_man> (= not multiaudio)[13:56:22] <mmu_man> Haiku should support it with the legacy.media_addon, but I think it's not finished.[13:56:25] <mmu_man> Anyone tested it ?[13:59:18] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[13:59:59] *** Guest31836 has quit IRC[14:00:01] *** bryguy[lap] has quit IRC[14:00:01] *** adb has quit IRC[14:00:01] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[14:00:02] *** Gareth has quit IRC[14:00:02] *** Zaranthos has quit IRC[14:00:03] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[14:00:03] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC[14:00:28] *** licksjp has quit IRC[14:00:41] *** CIA-5 has quit IRC[14:00:41] *** xcasex[work] has quit IRC[14:00:42] *** quinq has quit IRC[14:00:43] *** [JT] has quit IRC[14:00:43] *** miqlas has quit IRC[14:00:44] *** giszo has quit IRC[14:00:44] *** Malmis has quit IRC[14:00:44] *** stef has quit IRC[14:00:44] *** Mazon has quit IRC[14:00:45] *** Styrbjorn has quit IRC[14:00:45] *** markos_ has quit IRC[14:00:45] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[14:00:45] *** Master199 has quit IRC[14:00:45] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[14:00:45] *** MindChild has quit IRC[14:00:45] *** tic has quit IRC[14:00:47] *** numbah has quit IRC[14:00:48] *** Vampyre has quit IRC[14:00:48] *** helf has quit IRC[14:00:48] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC[14:01:14] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[14:01:15] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[14:01:15] *** rkbm has quit IRC[14:01:15] *** thebolt|away has quit IRC[14:01:16] *** geist has quit IRC[14:01:22] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[14:01:29] *** stpere has quit IRC[14:01:29] *** kallisti5 has quit IRC[14:03:22] *** geist has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** kallisti5 has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** numbah has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** stpere has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** thebolt|away has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** rkbm has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** helf has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Vampyre has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** stef has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Styrbjorn has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Mazon has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Malmis has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** giszo has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** tic has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** [JT] has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** MindChild has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Kernel86 has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Master199 has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** adb has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Zaranthos has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Guest31836 has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** quinq has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** CIA-5 has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** xcasex[work] has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** bryguy[lap] has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** Gareth has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** licksjp has joined #haiku[14:03:22] *** irc.freenode.net sets mode: +oo geist mmu_man[14:08:55] *** johndrinkwater has quit IRC[14:18:41] <miqlas> Hohoho! I made it: http://boly.hu/~miqlas/0/cucc_vissza.php[14:18:53] <miqlas> Working :)[14:20:00] <ddew|bofh> i'm guessing new status page?[14:20:13] <ddew|bofh> my hungarian is a little rusty :P[14:22:28] <CIA-5> axeld * r28127 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/ (TermView.cpp TermView.h):[14:22:28] <CIA-5> * Moved duplicated initializers to the _InitObject() method.[14:22:28] <CIA-5> * Cleanup.[14:30:57] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[14:33:12] <CIA-5> axeld * r28128 /haiku/trunk/headers/posix/sys/socket.h: * Added a comment to SO_BINDTODEVICE.[14:42:47] <CIA-5> bonefish * r28129 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/input/usb_hid/KeyboardDevice.cpp: mmlr: On some keyboards another keycode maps to backslash.[14:42:55] *** bryguy[lap] has quit IRC[14:43:10] *** mats has joined #haiku[14:45:19] *** bryguy[lap] has joined #haiku[14:47:28] <CIA-5> axeld * r28130 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/ (TermApp.cpp TermApp.h):[14:47:28] <CIA-5> * When switching Terminals via Command-G, we now also take the workspace[14:47:28] <CIA-5> information into account, ie. we now behave like the Terminal on BeOS, and only[14:47:28] <CIA-5> allow to switch between the Terminal windows of one workspace.[14:53:15] <miqlas> ddew|bofh , i want put some Haiku developement progress bar to my blog, and now it works :) http://boly.hu/~miqlas/index.php/haiku/[14:54:27] <miqlas> If anybody want this code, please, pm me.[14:55:02] <ddew|bofh> looks a lot clearer than the milestone page even if i can't read the labels :)[14:55:08] <miqlas> This code dinamically get the data from the Haiku roadmap (http://dev.haiku-os.org/roadmap )[14:56:02] <ddew|bofh> well done[14:56:03] <miqlas> The text: Actual development status, Apha1, R1 relese, other things, webpage[14:57:24] <ddew|bofh> cheers, i could guess what the others meant but "Tervezetlen" had me stumped :)[14:58:44] <miqlas> Tervezetlen = Unscheduled[14:59:07] <miqlas> But it don't work in IE :([14:59:36] <ddew|bofh> a lot of things don'e work in IE :/[14:59:40] <ddew|bofh> *don't[15:00:26] <helf> morning[15:00:33] <ddew|bofh> g'morning[15:00:58] *** acidx has joined #haiku[15:01:27] <helf> lmao[15:01:27] <helf> http://www.google.com/search?q=goog[15:01:37] <helf> read the text ads on the side[15:01:40] <helf> reload a few times[15:01:41] <ddew|bofh> hehe[15:01:52] <ddew|bofh> i like the first result better :P[15:02:06] <ddew|bofh> and i see no ads[15:02:13] <helf> text ads[15:02:15] <helf> on the side[15:02:30] <ddew|bofh> there are none[15:02:39] <helf> or do you have adblock set to block those?[15:02:42] <ddew|bofh> nope[15:02:45] <ddew|bofh> i use chrome[15:03:00] <helf> so googles chrome is blocking their own ad system?[15:03:10] <helf> 1.[15:03:10] <ddew|bofh> quite possible :)[15:03:10] <helf> Before you jump out of[15:03:10] <helf> that window, why not spend your[15:03:10] <helf> last remaining dollars at Woot?[15:03:10] <helf> woot.com[15:03:18] <helf> 1.[15:03:18] <ddew|bofh> hehe[15:03:18] <helf> Buy stuff. All is well.[15:03:18] <helf> Remain calm. Keep spending.[15:03:18] <helf> Keep spending. Remain calm.[15:03:18] <helf> woot.com[15:03:25] <ddew|bofh> haha[15:03:28] <helf> 1.[15:03:28] <helf> You're broke. So what?[15:03:28] <helf> You could live without gadgets, but[15:03:28] <helf> can you really call that "living"?[15:03:28] <helf> woot.com[15:03:31] <helf> etc etc[15:03:37] <ddew|bofh> fucking brilliant[15:03:56] <ddew|bofh> the thing that cracked me up though was that yahoo finances ranked higher than google finances[15:04:03] <helf> ha[15:04:10] <helf> ive only been using google finance[15:04:35] <ddew|bofh> i like yahoo finances, great for checking stock quotes[15:04:48] <Teknomancer> on the iPhone?[15:04:57] <Teknomancer> yahoo finances is what gets the stock[15:06:23] <helf> .DJI is back down[15:06:44] <Teknomancer> how is "JAVA" doing ;) :P[15:07:19] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[15:07:29] <helf> "Community banking executives around the country responded with anger[15:07:29] <helf> yesterday to the Bush administration's strategy of investing $250[15:07:29] <helf> billion in financial firms, saying they don't need the money, resent[15:07:29] <helf> the intrusion and feel it's unfair to rescue companies from their own[15:07:30] <helf> mistakes."[15:07:36] <lorglas> hello[15:07:45] <helf> way to go small banks :P[15:07:49] <helf> hi lorglas[15:07:53] <ddew|bofh> still nowhere near the craphole it was in last week[15:07:59] <helf> are you legolas's cousin?[15:08:10] <helf> ddew|bofh, yeah[15:08:17] <helf> 7800 dip was pretty bad :P[15:08:34] <ddew|bofh> a little bit :P[15:08:48] <helf> its 9:09[15:08:51] <helf> why arent hte markets open[15:08:57] <ddew|bofh> the current financial situation is giving me high blood pressure and strokes[15:09:20] <helf> the current financial situation isnt affecting me much[15:09:24] <helf> at the moment[15:09:25] <ddew|bofh> one day i'm losing 10K USD and the next day i'm earning 15K[15:09:36] <helf> i has no monies[15:09:39] <helf> on the up side[15:09:45] <ddew|bofh> my brain can't hack that kind of turbulence[15:09:49] <helf> Our gas is at $2.97/G here[15:09:49] <helf> ^_^[15:09:51] <helf> take that, sucka[15:10:02] <ddew|bofh> yeah, we have a nice price drop too :)[15:10:06] <ddew|bofh> *had[15:10:08] <helf> $2.79 for cheap crap[15:10:19] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[15:10:24] <helf> OPEC is freaking out because oil is hovering around $80/Bbl[15:10:33] <helf> uh, guys, you did just fine when it was much lower than that[15:10:37] <helf> gready bastards[15:10:57] <ddew|bofh> it's just typical, when i buy a small car the gas prices drop 20% next month :P[15:11:02] <helf> hehe[15:11:08] <CIA-5> axeld * r28131 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/sudoku/SudokuWindow.cpp: * Adjusted the difficulty levels a bit to fit better with what you likely get.[15:11:10] <helf> yeah, its why i suffer through the spikes[15:11:23] <helf> this price drop will probably slow adoption of smaller cars somewhat[15:11:37] <helf> if it stays under or in the low $3 range, people wonth ave muchincentive[15:11:51] <helf> i could afford to keep driving my drinker at $6-7 range...[15:11:55] <helf> and I make squat :P[15:12:03] <ddew|bofh> hehe[15:12:14] <helf> $2.97 is just heaven[15:12:33] <ddew|bofh> i'm a fan of small gocart like cars anyway, the low mileage is just a bonus :)[15:12:50] <helf> It'll cost me a whopping $81 to fill up if I'm completely empty. so that means my weekly top offs will only be ~$35[15:12:58] <helf> yeah, I love micro cars[15:13:06] <helf> I also have a soft spot for enormous hulks[15:13:21] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[15:13:21] <helf> basically, if it has wheels and I don't think it's ugly, I want it[15:13:45] <helf> oh, my dad might more or less lose his job because of one tiny speeding ticket[15:13:49] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i love big cars too. but for driving around town nothing beats a micro.[15:13:51] <helf> its retarded[15:14:02] <ddew|bofh> because of the radar warner?[15:14:04] <helf> ddew|bofh, yeah, thats why i want to get my rabbit going. it aint a micro. but its close[15:14:05] <miqlas> 1 Gallon benzin 9 US dollar here in Hungary.[15:14:06] <helf> no[15:14:20] <helf> ddew|bofh, no, its worse[15:14:32] <ddew|bofh> like going 90 in a 20 zone?[15:14:37] <helf> he was doing 45mph, the speed limit was 45mph. BUT, it was a school zone that we didnt notice. so the limit was 35mph[15:14:44] <helf> so they got him for 10 over and a school zone[15:14:54] <helf> no big deal, really. just a few points on his license, if any and a small fine.[15:15:11] *** thebolt|away is now known as thebolt[15:15:12] <helf> his COMPANY has its own point system. 10mph over is 6 points. school zone is ANOTHER 6 points[15:15:14] <ddew|bofh> not to be an ass but that's what speeding tickets are for. school zones are the single most important places to keep an eye out[15:15:21] <helf> this is even though it was in his personal vehicle[15:15:30] <ddew|bofh> that's a little harsh[15:15:32] <helf> you can get a max of 13 points with his company before they yank you from a truck[15:15:49] <helf> he still has 6 points on his company point systems from a wreck he had awhile back[15:15:53] <ddew|bofh> max 13 points even on your personal record and not during work hours?[15:15:57] <helf> thats 18 points if he cant get the tic,ket thrown out or reduced[15:16:04] <helf> yeah. its retardedc[15:16:07] <helf> *retarded[15:16:13] <ddew|bofh> yeah, that's pretty fucked[15:17:05] <ddew|bofh> understandable, but still over the top[15:17:20] <helf> I can understand them doing points even for a personal one[15:17:28] <helf> but wtf, score it less than if he was in an actual rig[15:17:44] <ddew|bofh> indeed[15:18:15] *** MindChild has quit IRC[15:19:42] <ddew|bofh> hehe, call me weird. but seeing a 100/100mbit connection completely maxed out gives me great pleasure :P[15:19:59] <ddew|bofh> bittorrent, how i love thee[15:20:45] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[15:22:49] <helf> lol[15:22:51] <helf> niiice[15:23:14] <helf> max i ever see is 15-20% utilization :([15:23:16] <ddew|bofh> all nicely encrypted too :P[15:23:34] <helf> i run mine encrypted only with no legacy support with ipv4 and 6[15:23:53] <helf> and radomized ports[15:23:56] <helf> randomized[15:24:00] <ddew|bofh> i'm guessing public trackers?[15:25:00] <helf> yeah... i dont belong to any private trackers[15:25:01] <helf> well[15:25:02] <helf> i do[15:25:08] <helf> but i cant remember my account info[15:25:15] <ddew|bofh> heh[15:25:23] <ddew|bofh> i'm on a couple of them[15:25:31] <helf> and i dont download enough to bother[15:25:38] <helf> i dont download movies :P[15:25:46] <helf> i buy the DVDs to waht i want to see[15:25:49] <helf> pressed dvds last longer ;)[15:26:01] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i mkostly dl tv[15:26:21] <helf> lmao[15:26:26] <ddew|bofh> mainly because we get the shows so late and there are no hdtv providers here that i can use a dvr with[15:26:29] <helf> they are coming out with a porno called nailin' palin'[15:26:46] <ddew|bofh> yeah, saw that one. the talent look pretty similar too[15:26:57] <helf> I don't think we've ever had a politician thats arroused this many people[15:27:01] <helf> pun intended ;)[15:27:27] <ddew|bofh> any mention of punnage in a comment immediatly nullifies any cleverness :P[15:27:56] <helf> hehe[15:27:58] <helf> d'oh[15:28:00] <helf> :P[15:28:03] <ddew|bofh> :)[15:28:16] <ddew|bofh> www.wwtdd.com and www.deceiver.com are two the greatest blogs on the planet[15:28:29] <ddew|bofh> wwtdd is like perez hilton but mean...and funny[15:29:06] <helf> LOL, on a real police report...[15:29:21] <helf> "Deputy responded to call about vehicle stopping at mail boxes. It was the mail man."[15:29:46] <ddew|bofh> uhhmm...i'm at loss for words here[15:29:52] <ddew|bofh> the stupid, it hurts![15:30:03] <helf> heh[15:30:14] <helf> Apparently the markets open at 9:30 and not 9am[15:31:11] <helf> 175 point drop already :)[15:31:13] <ddew|bofh> heh, i think i've found the reason Obama's so popular in polls: http://5.media.collegehumor.com/collegehumor/ch6/6/2/collegehumor.6af525066e99d00d78ce8372307dd18b.jpg[15:31:17] <ddew|bofh> warning, NSFW[15:31:49] <helf> heh[15:32:17] <ddew|bofh> hehe, wwtdd is teh funnay[15:32:50][15:32:50] <ddew|bofh> 1. Batman"[15:32:52] *** MindChild has joined #haiku[15:34:10] <helf> lol[15:34:13] <helf> nice[15:34:44] <helf> being 82 and still screwing 19 year old twins would be amazin[15:34:53] <helf> being 21 and screwing 19 year old twins would be amazing[15:35:17] <ddew|bofh> hell, being 21 and screwing _any_ twins would be neat[15:35:24] <helf> i was getting to that[15:35:31] <helf> being 21 and screwing would be amazing[15:35:31] <helf> :P[15:35:51] <ddew|bofh> seriously though, hefner has got to be the envy of all men[15:36:07] <ddew|bofh> anyone saying otherwise is either gay or lying, quite possibly both[15:36:17] <helf> hehe[15:36:52] <ddew|bofh> shedloads of cash and a mansion with tons of scantily clad ladies prancing around. that's gotta suck[15:37:51] <helf> yeah, totally[15:37:55] <helf> i dont know how he does it[15:37:55] <helf> "Investors are moving closer to treating everyone in the industry the same, which is what happens when you socialize the system as we're doing now," said Mr. Najarian. "In this case, that means pulling J.P. Morgan back to everyone else's level and bumping everyone else closer to the status J.P. Morgan held before."[15:38:14] <helf> im glad someone is mentioning the socialization bit :P you rarely hear it[15:39:10] <ddew|bofh> well everyone knows that socialization is just lib-speak for totalirian communism :P[15:39:14] *** leszek has joined #haiku[15:39:36] <leszek> re[15:39:37] <ddew|bofh> it's not like socialistic influences has worked anywhere else...[15:39:53] <ddew|bofh> well, except for europe :P[15:39:57] <helf> hehe[15:40:03] <helf> where it really hasnt worked[15:40:06] <helf> people just like to think it has[15:40:33] <ddew|bofh> yeah, government sanctioned healthcare sucks[15:40:47] <ddew|bofh> and the free schooling is just awful[15:42:02] <ddew|bofh> heh, wwtdd on Britney's latest video:[15:42:04] <ddew|bofh> "The snifter of brandy says "sophisticated lady", whereas the skin tight pants say "do me" and the blood red wig adds "...in the ass."[15:43:32] <helf> lol[15:44:32] <helf> public (free) schooling here is awful[15:48:52] <ddew|bofh> here in .se it's awesome[15:49:06] <ddew|bofh> look at places like Chalmers, KTH and Lund[15:49:43] <Teknomancer> .se==sweden?[15:49:49] <ddew|bofh> indeed[15:49:59] <Teknomancer> ok[15:50:29] <thebolt> ddew|bofh: or linköping :P[15:50:42] <ddew|bofh> our free unis rank among the highest in europia[15:50:45] <ddew|bofh> heh[15:52:01] <ddew|bofh> lith used to be a fav ftp mirror of mine[15:52:03] <Teknomancer> my friend is in an uni in Stockholm[15:52:07] <Teknomancer> before he was in Umea[15:52:23] <Teknomancer> for 6 months, he said it was so lonely and cold he almost went mad, so shifted to Stockholm.[15:52:40][15:53:08] <Teknomancer> i don't know, didn't look it up, but from what he said he didn't like it[15:53:17] <thebolt> hehe[15:53:43] <Teknomancer> heck even Germany where I am seems lonely to me compared to India... there is like streets and gas staions and everything but nobody there.[15:53:46] <Teknomancer> pfft[15:54:12] <Teknomancer> well and the most boring thing i have ever witnessed in my life are Sundays in Germany.[15:54:22] <ddew|bofh> blame religion[15:54:37] <Teknomancer> what has religion got to do with this ??[15:54:38] <Teknomancer> hehe[15:54:41] <ddew|bofh> sundays here in europe is like eating cow in india[15:54:54] <ddew|bofh> well, rather doing stuff on sundays[15:55:02] <Teknomancer> i know[15:55:18] <ddew|bofh> that's because of religion, sundays being the christian sabbath[15:55:38] <Teknomancer> i don't tihnk it's because of that...[15:55:43] <ddew|bofh> well it is[15:55:50] <Teknomancer> i dunno, anyway - it's NULL.[15:56:05] <ddew|bofh> :)[15:56:18] <Teknomancer> i have to waste time on weekdays to go to shops[15:56:29] <Teknomancer> when I can rather be in the office being more productive[15:56:29] <Teknomancer> damn it[15:56:33] <ddew|bofh> germany is also lutheran, much like .se and it's only in the past few years shops have started to keep open on sundays etc[15:56:45] <Teknomancer> whats lutheran?[15:56:56] <ddew|bofh> it's a branch of protestantism[15:57:05] *** lorglas has quit IRC[15:57:08] <ddew|bofh> which in turn is a branch of christianity :)[15:57:14] <Teknomancer> the only thing i know about protestantism is that its not catholic[15:57:29] <Teknomancer> or rather the 'other' group[15:57:38] <Stefan100> dude. sweden is religious?[15:58:22] <ddew|bofh> Stefan100: well, yeah. it was only relatively recently that the church separated from the state[15:58:33] <ddew|bofh> and we still have an opt-out church tax[15:58:47] <MindChild> Teknomancer: Ok, think of christianity as "grocery stores" as a whole concept. Catholics are Walmart. Everything other store that sells groceries is Prodestants[15:58:56] * Stefan100 tries to remember last time he saw religion and politics mixed here[15:59:00] <helf> http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/128668/detail/[15:59:03] <helf> lol, that is awesome[15:59:05] <Stefan100> minus kristdemokraterna.[15:59:11] <helf> some one edited the presidential debate[15:59:29] <ddew|bofh> Stefan100: two words. friskolor och bidrag[15:59:39] <ddew|bofh> assuming you're swedish :)[15:59:47] <Stefan100> I am.[16:00:15] <Stefan100> so. religious free-schools (?) and subsidies to religious institutions?[16:00:29] <ddew|bofh> yups[16:00:37] <ddew|bofh> financed by our taxes[16:01:03] * Stefan100 shrugs[16:01:24] <Stefan100> very little compared to some countries ;0)[16:01:26] <helf> This somehow reminds me of my favorite explanation for English's weirdness. "English mugs other languages in back alleys and roots through their pockets for loose grammar."[16:01:43] <ddew|bofh> Stefan100: how much is irrelevant, it's the principle :P[16:01:50] <ddew|bofh> hehe[16:02:09] <Stefan100> "English doesn't borrow from other languages. It knocks them over down dark alleys and goes through their pockes through loose grammar." ;)[16:02:15] <ddew|bofh> english can blame a lot of the funky grammar on swedish :)[16:02:17] <helf> yeah, that one[16:02:18] <helf> :D[16:02:20] <helf> i love that one[16:04:45] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[16:05:33] <CIA-5> axeld * r28132 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/ (TermView.cpp TermView.h):[16:05:33] <CIA-5> * Added a _MouseDistanceSinceLastClick() that returns the square of the pixel[16:05:33] <CIA-5> distance of the last click and the point passed in.[16:05:33] <CIA-5> * Use this one to delay starting of character wide selections.[16:05:33] <CIA-5> * Also, treat double/triple clicks as single clicks if the mouse moved too far.[16:06:38] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[16:23:39] *** paul0 has joined #haiku[16:37:23] *** leszek has quit IRC[16:37:52] *** leszek has joined #haiku[16:37:57] *** MindChild has quit IRC[16:38:02] *** leszek has quit IRC[16:38:20] *** MindChild has joined #haiku[16:38:33] <ddew|bofh> heh, neato. looks like sagan might be this planet's most well spread writer[16:38:42] *** MindChild has quit IRC[16:38:57] <ddew|bofh> i had no idea he was the guy behind the voyager plaques[16:39:09] *** MindChild has joined #haiku[16:39:39] * DeadYak read plagues at first glance[16:39:48] <ddew|bofh> heh[16:45:00] <CIA-5> axeld * r28133 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/pairs/ (PairsView.cpp PairsView.h):[16:45:00] <CIA-5> * When adding new bitmaps, Pairs now checks if it already got it (in case two[16:45:00] <CIA-5> apps are using the same icon).[16:45:00] <CIA-5> * This fixes bug #2694.[16:45:44] <CIA-5> stippi * r28134 /haiku/trunk/data/artwork/icons/Misc_Sphere: Added a simple sphere for using as a reference for other icons.[16:53:40] *** andguent has joined #haiku[16:53:48] <CIA-5> stippi * r28135 /haiku/trunk/data/artwork/icons/ (App_Chat App_NetSurf File_RSS_Feed): (log message trimmed)[16:53:48] <CIA-5> Patch by zuMi:[16:53:48] <CIA-5> * A new icon for NetSurf (although the original logo can and has been made[16:53:48] <CIA-5> into a HFIV icon by Guiseppe, but I find the surfing monkey quite cool[16:53:48] <CIA-5> and would prefer that if it's alright with the NetSurf crew.)[16:53:51] <CIA-5> * A new icon for a Chat application, or perhaps the Chat Kit server? :-)[16:53:53] <CIA-5> * A new icon for RSS Feeds. Either for a file/bookmark type or an app?[16:57:16] <CIA-5> stippi * r28136 /haiku/trunk/data/artwork/icons/App_Firefox:[16:57:16] <CIA-5> Created a Firefox icon from the original SVG logo that can be downloaded[16:57:16] <CIA-5> from Wikipedia. I tried to fix any issues and approximate the original logo[16:57:16] <CIA-5> as best as I could. (tqh, I can send you an .rdef if you need it.) The icon[16:57:16] <CIA-5> size could be further reduced by re-using paths. I named a couple of paths[16:57:19] <CIA-5> accordingly when I spotted duplicates.[16:59:57] *** MindChild has quit IRC[17:00:51] <CIA-5> stippi * r28137 /haiku/trunk/data/artwork/icons/ (172 files):[17:00:51] <CIA-5> I re-saved all icons in Icon-O-Matic (actually to get the proper icons[17:00:51] <CIA-5> in Haiku), but the binaries have appearantly changed slightly, probably of[17:00:51] <CIA-5> some optimization that Icon-O-Matic is now doing. No functional or visual[17:00:51] <CIA-5> changes should have taken place.[17:03:54] *** AndrevS has joined #haiku[17:04:49] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[17:07:21] *** thebolt is now known as thebolt|away[17:10:39] *** tqh has joined #haiku[17:13:41] *** Yaroze has quit IRC[17:15:10] *** luroh has joined #haiku[17:16:24] *** MindChild has joined #haiku[17:26:58] <CIA-5> axeld * r28138 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/andrew/:[17:26:58] <CIA-5> * Removed the old "andrew" code. IIRC it was a start to rework Terminal, but[17:26:58] <CIA-5> it's so outdated by now, that it's hardly of any use now. Of course, it's[17:26:58] <CIA-5> still in the SVN history if you want to have a look at it :-)[17:30:33] *** thotypous has quit IRC[17:32:34] *** boh666 has joined #haiku[17:34:00] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[17:34:17] <ddew|bofh> rofl, there are few things as pathetic as guys striking out on a russian mailorder bride tour[17:34:35] <DeadYak> ....[17:35:06] <CIA-5> aldeck * r28139 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/tracker/ (4 files):[17:35:06] <CIA-5> * There was indeed a problem with my previous attempt at fixing #353. This should be much[17:35:06] <CIA-5> better![17:35:26] <ddew|bofh> watching a documentary about it, pretty interesting actually[17:35:31] *** Rakhun has joined #haiku[17:36:48] <CIA-5> stippi * r28140 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/plugins/avcodec/codectbl.cpp: Enable the H.264 codec in the avcodec decoder.[17:37:40] <CIA-5> stippi * r28141 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/plugins/matroska/matroska_reader.cpp: Small cleanup.[17:38:03] <DeadYak> ooh, h.264[17:38:37] *** sprma has joined #haiku[17:38:51] <luroh> hmm, i think aldeck might have broken something there, i'm getting:[17:38:57] <luroh> generated/objects/haiku/x86/release/kits/tracker/DeskWindow.o: In function `BPrivate::BDeskWindow::AddTrashContextMenu(void)':[17:38:57] <luroh> DeskWindow.cpp:(.text+0x1c16): undefined reference to `BPrivate::BShowingAwarePopUpMenu::BShowingAwarePopUpMenu(char const *, bool, bool, menu_layout)'[17:38:57] <luroh> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status[17:39:02] <DeadYak> looking[17:39:11] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[17:39:33] <CIA-5> stippi * r28142 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/plugins/matroska/matroska_codecs.cpp:[17:39:33] <CIA-5> * Add some more tracing.[17:39:33] <CIA-5> * Add the case where H.264 info needs to be extracted.[17:39:33] <CIA-5> (Had this laying on my hard drive for a while, hope you have not worked[17:39:33] <CIA-5> on it again, David...)[17:40:30] <DeadYak> luroh: might know what the problem is already...[17:40:42] <luroh> sweet[17:40:51] <CIA-5> stippi * r28143 /haiku/trunk/data/artwork/HAIKU alpha logo - white on blue - big:[17:40:51] <CIA-5> Before anything bad happens to my Haiku disk, check the WIP alpha logo into[17:40:51] <CIA-5> the repo... It's not supposed to be final yet.[17:42:11] <CIA-5> anevilyak * r28144 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/tracker/Jamfile: Fix build (ShowingAwarePopupMenu was not added to libtracker's build, resulting in undefined sym errors).[17:42:17] <DeadYak> luroh: give that a shot[17:42:33] * luroh builds[17:42:55] <luroh> oh yeah, that did it :)[17:43:55] <Lelldorin1> hi all[17:44:21] <luroh> good evenlong, Lelldorin1[17:44:35] * luroh goes looking for a h264 sample file[17:44:52] <DeadYak> luroh: thanks for the heads up :)[17:45:12] <ddew|bofh> ah, gotta love mtroska.[17:45:25] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku[17:45:30] <ddew|bofh> any word on embedded subtitles working or is that too advanced still? :)[17:46:25] <ddew|bofh> that's one of my fav features of it[17:46:43] <DeadYak> don't think I've ever seen anything related to that offhand, but I honestly don't have any matroska files to try it with[17:47:19] <ddew|bofh> yeah, it's not incredibly common yet[17:47:28] <ddew|bofh> great foreign language movies though[17:47:35] <ddew|bofh> *great for[17:48:03] *** sprma_ has quit IRC[17:48:25] <NeonLicht> has anybody tried to make a multiboot pendrive? I'd like to be able to boot from a pen drive and select which image (file contained whithin the pendrive) to boot from[17:48:45] <ddew|bofh> ought to be doable[17:49:06] <DeadYak> in theory all you'd need is a normal partition table on the pen drive[17:49:34] <ddew|bofh> and installing bootman on it[17:49:57] <DeadYak> that too[17:50:36] <HeTo> bootman won't do it if the OSes are as image files on the pen drive[17:50:42] *** Monni has joined #Haiku[17:50:54] <HeTo> unless Haiku bootman is a big evolution over the BeOS one[17:51:32] <DeadYak> HeTo: ah, I assumed he meant images dd'd to different partitions on the drive[17:51:37] <ddew|bofh> ah, missed the bit about booting image files[17:51:40] *** sprma_ has joined #haiku[17:51:48] * ddew|bofh blames his lack of sleep[17:51:53] <DeadYak> mm....[17:52:07] <NeonLicht> it could be that way also, DeadYak, but is it opssible to dd to a partition instead of a full device?[17:52:08] <DeadYak> I think mmu_man made haiku's zbeos fmap capable at some point, but I'm not sure how complete that is[17:52:18] <DeadYak> NeonLicht: if the stick has a partition table it should be[17:52:35] <NeonLicht> it could be either way (dd images or images copied into a partition on the pendrive) acrually[17:52:39] <mmu_man> DeadYak it can find images in the partitions known to it[17:52:51] *** paul0 has quit IRC[17:52:51] <mmu_man> (that is, BFS and AmigaFFS for now)[17:52:55] <HeTo> does Haiku still need makebootable to be run when the partition offset changes?[17:52:56] <ddew|bofh> can't grub also boot from images?[17:52:57] <DeadYak> mmu_man: is that assuming they're named image.be?[17:53:01] <mmu_man> I'm actually writing the FAT code[17:53:11] <mmu_man> DeadYak yes, but we can change that eventylaly[17:53:38] <NeonLicht> ddew|bofh: it doesn't seem to be able to... I've been reading about it for a couple of hours... there are dozens of questions (w/o answers everywhere :-)[17:53:51] <DeadYak> mmu_man: neat, thanks :)[17:54:13] <ddew|bofh> NeonLicht: i'll take your word for it :)[17:55:03] <NeonLicht> ddew|bofh: my word(s) is(are): "it doesn't seem to be able to" :-)))[17:55:32] <NeonLicht> or, at least, I haven't been able to find the way or somebody who says it can, you know, haha[17:55:45] <ddew|bofh> was just thinking since it's pretty advanced as far as filesystem support and chainloading goes it'd be a pretty natural next step[17:56:04] <NeonLicht> that's what I though, too[17:56:57] <ddew|bofh> i was also thinking of wubi[17:57:01][17:57:28] <ddew|bofh> wubi boots from an image, correct?[17:57:36] <ddew|bofh> kinda like how beos4win worked[17:57:44] <HeTo> if you load something like memdisk with grub, that can emulate a BIOS hard drive[17:57:48] <ddew|bofh> well, beospe[17:58:08] <HeTo> but that only works as long as the OS uses BIOS for disk access[17:58:45] <ddew|bofh> ah, so it takes an image-file and pretends it's a bios drive?[17:58:58] <NeonLicht> mmmhhhhh... I'm just thinking that Ubuntu CD-Live has a 'memtest' boot option which might be booting a floppy disk image... go to check that out...[17:59:11] <NeonLicht> title Ubuntu 8.04.1, memtest86+[17:59:16] <NeonLicht> kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin[17:59:21] <NeonLicht> that's interesting[17:59:43] <HeTo> NeonLicht: no, memtest86+ is a multiboot-compatible (ELF?) image[17:59:43] <NeonLicht> :/boot# file memtest86+.bin[17:59:43] <NeonLicht> memtest86+.bin: Linux x86 kernel[17:59:43] <ddew|bofh> well it doesn't have to be anything but a large binary[17:59:50] <ddew|bofh> memtest is a fairly small ap[17:59:54] <NeonLicht> I've just seen that, HeTo, haha[17:59:55] <ddew|bofh> *app[18:00:22] <NeonLicht> let see how "The Ultimate Boot CD" does it :)[18:00:32] *** sprma has quit IRC[18:00:48] *** boh666 has quit IRC[18:01:10] <ddew|bofh> this might be worth looking into[18:01:11] <ddew|bofh> http://backports.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?s=4e27913b61985e091376fbdf16d9ab42&t=946356[18:01:40] <NeonLicht> No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator[18:01:55] <HeTo> but that guide uses memdisk (which is a Linux-kernel-like binary separate from GRUB, I think it originates from syslinux), and that takes the image as an initrd (which is also loaded to memory by GRUB)[18:03:18] <ddew|bofh> NeonLicht: odd, it's the link i used straight from google[18:03:32] <ddew|bofh> it's about loading loop images from a harddrive any way[18:03:41] <NeonLicht> from Grub??[18:03:43] <HeTo> works for me[18:04:00] <HeTo> NeonLicht: are you sure you copied the part after the ? character?[18:04:04] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[18:04:08] <NeonLicht> sure, HeTo[18:04:16] <aldeck> evening :)[18:04:20] <DeadYak> hi aldeck :)[18:04:38] <aldeck> hey thanks for your fix Rene :)[18:04:39] <ddew|bofh> it'd be nice if you could chainload a file[18:04:44] <DeadYak> aldeck: np :)[18:04:50] <DeadYak> how are things going over there?[18:05:00] <ddew|bofh> like root (hd0,1)/haiku.image and then chainloader +1[18:05:10] <NeonLicht> dd'ing diferent images to diferent partitions would be enough for me, also, but I don't see how to do so[18:05:11] <aldeck> DeadYak: pretty well![18:05:23] <NeonLicht> yess, ddew|bofh, that'd be really excellent[18:05:48] <HeTo> ddew|bofh: you can chainload a file with GRUB[18:05:49] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: that would be difficult though since you can't directly chainload an image, as it lacks a boot sector[18:05:50] <aldeck> DeadYak: working on my old tracker bug list[18:06:15] <ddew|bofh> NeonLicht: you don't even have to use dd. you can create 4 partitions on the drive with fdisk, run drivesetup to imake filesystems, copy the files over, install bootman and then run makebootable on the drives[18:06:20] <NeonLicht> DeadYak: but an image has to have a way of being booted, since I can boot from a dd'd image to a pendrive[18:06:33] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: sure, but it'd be nice _if_ :)[18:06:41] <HeTo> but the problem is the boot sector in the file, if any, isn't probably made to recognise the situation that the disk is just a file somewhere[18:06:43] <DeadYak> NeonLicht: you have to run makebootable on the drive too, no?[18:07:17] <NeonLicht> ddew|bofh: I've tryed the "makebootable" thing dozens (really) of times and I haven't been able to get it to work for me (on hard drives)... I would prefer to avoid that on a more complicated media, as a pendrive :-)[18:07:53] <NeonLicht> DeadYak: no, I don't... I justt dd if=haiku.image of=/dev/sdX and I am ready to boot from /dev/sda[18:10:43] <NeonLicht> http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=27244 ---> By now I am running two Puppy flavors from pendrive, with multi-boot option (standard Puppy 3.01, pcPuppyOS rc6, or WinXP from hard disk), and I find that I'm now using WinXP for barely 10% of the time. (But he doesn't say how he does it :-)[18:11:16] <CIA-5> stippi * r28145 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)[18:11:16] <CIA-5> packageinstaller:[18:11:16] <CIA-5> * Reworded info_prepare() for clarity.[18:11:16] <CIA-5> * info_get_package_version() and info_get_package_name() were returning[18:11:16] <CIA-5> memory from a local variable. They return an error code now, possibly[18:11:16] <CIA-5> from info_prepare().[18:11:18] <CIA-5> installedpackages:[18:13:05] *** Euver has joined #haiku[18:13:47] <CIA-5> stippi * r28146 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/Gradient.cpp:[18:13:47] <CIA-5> patch by Artur Wyszynski:[18:13:47] <CIA-5> * Fixed some bugs in the archiving code.[18:13:59] <ddew|bofh> NeonLicht: odds are he's running a partitioned flashdrive[18:14:50] <NeonLicht> no idea[18:15:50] <ddew|bofh> heh, you know you have a messed up sleeping pattern when sunset is the cue for your body to wake up[18:16:01] <NeonLicht> I'm looking at the frugal installation of Puppy Linux now... let see if I understand what a "frugal instalation" is :)[18:16:08] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: no, that just brands you as an alpha geek :P[18:16:15] <ddew|bofh> hehe[18:16:37] <ddew|bofh> night time is the right time and all that :P[18:16:39] <NeonLicht> he says he is using frugal installation of Puppy, actually[18:18:33] <ddew|bofh> isn't frugal a distro?[18:19:31] <NeonLicht> ddew|bofh: it's a way of installing Puppy Linux into HD/Pendrive... it seems tha it means it loads form HD/Pendrive into memory (as in LiveCD) and run from there[18:20:35] <ddew|bofh> ah, neat[18:20:55] * ddew|bofh hasn't been a FSF/GNU/Linux hippie in years[18:21:06] *** xcasex has quit IRC[18:21:09] <ddew|bofh> so i may be slightly out of touch with the latest developments :P[18:25:16] *** xcasex has joined #haiku[18:33:51] <Yaroze> NeonLicht: bootup puppy, then run the installer.. it will allow you to install to usb[18:34:13] <Yaroze> you can choose if you want it to run as a livecd or as a real install[18:35:35] *** Teknomancer has left #haiku[18:35:51] *** tqh has quit IRC[18:35:56] <NeonLicht> I know, Yaroze, thanks[18:36:39] <Yaroze> NeonLicht: then why did you ask? :P[18:36:46] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[18:37:18] <NeonLicht> Yaroze: I didn't ask that :)[18:37:36] *** tqh has joined #haiku[18:39:52] *** johndrin1water is now known as johndrinkwater[18:41:13] <Yaroze> NeonLicht: nvm im tired :P[18:41:58] <NeonLicht> Yaroze: we can tell because of your tongue out of your mouth all the time XDDDDDD[18:46:39] <Yaroze> :P what tongue? :P[18:46:59] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[18:47:18] <NeonLicht> hahahaha[18:48:16] <Yaroze> :P what?[18:48:50] <Yaroze> ;)[18:49:19] <NeonLicht> noting XDDDDD[18:49:35] <NeonLicht> you must be really tired... I think I'll let you alone XDD[18:49:46] <Yaroze> hehe[18:50:01] <NeonLicht> (man this guy's got probs XDDDD)[18:55:56] *** AndrevS has quit IRC[19:01:26] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[19:01:52] <lorglas> hello[19:05:16] *** lorglas has quit IRC[19:08:02] <CIA-5> stippi * r28147 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/pairs/PairsView.cpp:[19:08:02] <CIA-5> patch by Artur Wyszynski:[19:08:02] <CIA-5> Build fix.[19:13:52] *** cherrylap has quit IRC[19:14:50] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC[19:18:52] <CIA-5> bonefish * r28148 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/BPlusTree.cpp: Calm down debug output a bit.[19:19:21] *** boh666 has joined #haiku[19:30:12] *** thotypous has joined #haiku[19:32:11] *** luroh1 has joined #haiku[19:35:33] *** leszek has joined #haiku[19:42:46] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[19:43:00] *** Korli has joined #haiku[19:43:00] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Korli[19:44:27] <CIA-5> aldeck * r28149 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/appearance/APRView.cpp:[19:44:27] <CIA-5> * Augmented the cellSize of the BColorControl to 8, it was previously clamped to that value[19:44:27] <CIA-5> anyway, but now BColorControl actually respects this setting.[19:44:45] *** korli_ has joined #haiku[19:48:20] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[19:48:45] *** luroh has quit IRC[19:59:31] *** luroh1 is now known as luroh[20:07:37] *** luroh has quit IRC[20:11:25] *** luroh has joined #haiku[20:16:34] <andguent> i am getting a lot of skipping targets because of missing <build>rc and <build>xres ... what may did go wrong?[20:16:50] <DeadYak> andguent: do jam -q and it'll stop on the first error[20:16:58] <andguent> ah right...thanks[20:20:41] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[20:21:18] <plfiorini> hello![20:30:41] *** MegafEee has joined #Haiku[20:31:48] *** hdanak has quit IRC[20:33:30] <andguent> why is the build process calling the ar tool of my host system? (in another words: why isn't it calling the ../buildtools/ stuff?)[20:34:54] <tqh> on what platform are you compiling?[20:34:59] <andguent> os x[20:35:27] <tqh> ah and you did all the buildtools steps and so on..[20:35:42] <andguent> i don't actually know why...but even on a fresh system with newly installed developer tools from apple my ar tool is totally screwed up[20:35:50] <andguent> yes i did that[20:36:09] <andguent> i read on the mailing list on guy succeeded building the legacy gcc on osx[20:36:17] <andguent> i followed his instructions and it worked out well[20:36:31] <tqh> hmm, no clue then but probably a problem with OS X[20:36:54] <andguent> so the build system is normally not supposed to call the host ar?[20:37:13] <DeadYak> don't think so...*checks*[20:37:43] <tqh> it does build those tools for the host platform though.[20:38:04] <DeadYak> yeah, ar and such are part of the cross compiler toolchain[20:38:44] <DeadYak> andguent: if you look at generated/build/BuildConfig, what's your value for HAIKU_AR?[20:38:58] <tqh> but for the host ones xres and rc would use the host compiler, and if your ar is messed up...[20:39:02] *** MegafEee has quit IRC[20:39:29] <andguent> yeah it's still complaining about the xres and rc thing[20:39:51] <DeadYak> yeah, for the host tools that are used as part of the build process, it will use the host ar and friends, good point[20:39:55] *** oco has joined #haiku[20:39:57] <andguent> my usual workaround is replacing the ar call with libtool...which works generally well...although i understand this is a horrible hack[20:40:08] *** paul0 has joined #haiku[20:40:39] <tqh> the solution is probably to fix ar.[20:40:42] *** HaikuwareDev has joined #Haiku[20:40:42] *** HaikuwareDev has quit IRC[20:40:46] <DeadYak> I don't know enough about OSX to help you here I'm afraid[20:41:02] <tqh> me neither, I just like to chat :)[20:41:16] <andguent> what surprises me is that the buildsystems doesnt stop when rc/xres is failing to build[20:41:27] <andguent> even with -q[20:41:54] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[20:47:11] *** markos__ has joined #haiku[20:48:13] *** markos_ is now known as Guest93889[20:48:52] *** markos__ is now known as markos_[20:50:53] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[20:53:08] *** korli_ has quit IRC[20:57:10] <andguent> tqh: the ar implementation on osx seems to be totally broken. in fact it is not binutils but an inhouse implementation from apple[20:57:46] <andguent> tqh: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/ar.1.html[20:58:38] <tqh> so the host handling of ar might need some love to work on OS X.[20:59:02] <andguent> probably[20:59:34] <DeadYak> wonder why they'd roll their own ar....something to do with mach-O maybe?[20:59:51] <andguent> the only reason why others got it compiling under osx seems to me that they either had their own homebrewn gnu toolchain or (which is far more likely) put fink/darwinports paths in first place of their $PATH[21:00:04] <helf> i thought you said "roll their own car" for a second[21:00:11] <helf> I was going to chime in with "BECAUSE WE CAN SHUTUP"[21:00:11] <DeadYak> you would :P[21:01:54] *** Guest93889 has quit IRC[21:02:18] *** boh666 has quit IRC[21:03:05] <AlienSoldier> canada elected "bush" 2 time in a row also :([21:04:04] <Teknomancer> hi AlienSoldier[21:04:29] <AlienSoldier> hi Teknomancer[21:05:02] *** serj has joined #haiku[21:05:11] <serj> hi guys[21:05:17] <serj> i need some jam guru[21:05:32] <serj> i want to copy a directory contents to the img[21:05:46] <serj> so i use CopyDirectoryToHaikuImage[21:06:11] <AlienSoldier> the trick is to not use copper ion for jam, it's toxic, you need to use calcium and acid, egg shell with lemon juice work fine[21:06:15] <serj> but i do not know how to specify that i want to copy onlt .so files[21:06:51] <serj> niiiiiiiiiiice[21:07:12] <AlienSoldier> haaa, that jam :) i'm clueless about that one :P[21:07:19] <tqh> not sure you can filter what it copies from directory.[21:07:40] <serj> than why can i specify what to exclude !![21:07:44] <DeadYak> offhand I don't either, you could zip just the .so's and have it unzip them to the image as an alternative though[21:08:31] <serj> ok CopyDirectoryToHaikuImage is just a function written in that jam scripty thing <(sorry don't know it's name)[21:09:01] <serj> can someone tell me how can i modify it so that it does what i want[21:09:24] <serj> i dont want to have manual steps[21:10:49] *** Teknomancer has left #haiku[21:10:53] <serj> any hint what's the timezone for the majority of this channels users[21:11:05] <DeadYak> everywhere[21:11:11] <DeadYak> not that many people are good with jam though[21:12:00] <Monni> I would use AddFilesToHaikuImage instead... that way you can specify what files to copy...[21:12:04] <serj> do you know some chan where i can ask jam questions #jam does not exist[21:12:29] <DeadYak> maybe the boost channel, iirc they use it too[21:12:31] <DeadYak> I might be wrong on that though[21:13:04] <serj> oh you're right[21:13:17] <DeadYak> AddDirectoryToHaikuImage is a haiku rule though, so I'm not sure they'd be able to help you so much with that[21:13:30] <DeadYak> see build/jam/MiscRules for its definition[21:13:41] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[21:13:41] <serj> i know[21:13:44] *** _maniac_ has quit IRC[21:13:50] <DeadYak> brb meeting[21:19:21] *** MegafEee has joined #Haiku[21:19:27] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[21:20:09] <andguent> now a clean binutils version of ar lies in the path and still it fails at this point...man i am going nuts on that one o_O[21:22:03] <serj> so what's the point of failure?[21:22:19] <andguent> it complaints about an "unsupported operation"[21:22:27] <andguent> operation being just: rc[21:22:31] <JonathanThompson> It gives you something to look forward to in case of future success ;)[21:22:57] <andguent> but it's fucking ar...it's like failing at 1+1[21:23:37] <serj> try stracing gives a clue every time[21:25:21] <andguent> i have to stick to ktrace ;)[21:26:01] <andguent> but i am currently becoming so frustrated that i rather fire up vmware with a linux image and just built it their[21:27:20] <serj> ah[21:27:29] <serj> die hard to the core[21:27:52] <serj> how bout gdb[21:28:13] <serj> but then i guess vmware will be easier[21:29:26] <andguent> the strange thing is now when i type "ar" in the shell the binutil version will be called[21:29:50] <andguent> so the path is set up in the right way from that perspective[21:30:00] <serj> are you sure[21:30:15] <serj> how about those env shell settings[21:30:31] <andguent> ar -V ... GNU ar ...[21:30:56] <serj> yep but what's your PATH env[21:31:29] <andguent> the first thing is /opt/local where i've installed that ar[21:32:40] <serj> could it be jam then[21:33:18] <andguent> dunno...is there a way to find out what jam is actually calling and how?[21:33:23] <tqh> you might need to rebuild buildtools[21:33:39] <andguent> what i just did[21:33:54] <tqh> jam -v[21:34:05] <andguent> Jam 2.5-haiku-20080327. OS=MACOSX. Copyright 1993-2002 Christopher Seiwald.[21:34:15] <serj> aw tqh can you give me some jam hints[21:34:42] <tqh> no, saw your question.[21:34:48] <serj> ok[21:36:44] *** silverpower has joined #haiku[21:40:33] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[21:40:51] <andguent> arghs...now i physically removed the apple ar from the bin folder and the gnu one is the only exec "ar" left on the system[21:40:54] <andguent> still the same shit[21:41:24] <andguent> thats really driving me nuts...because i always had this ar problem and i seem to be the only fucking person to have it.. thats so frustrating[21:42:42] <VinDuv> andguent: What is your Mac OS X version ? Haiku is building fine on my Mac (with Mac OS X 10.5 and the original /usr/bin/ar)[21:42:52] <andguent> 10.5[21:42:56] <andguent> intel[21:43:17] <andguent> it happens only on intel...my powerbook is fine (not with haiku of course but with the general ar problems)[21:44:14] <VinDuv> You could try to download the last Xcode version (3.1) from connect.apple.com[21:44:18] *** leszek has quit IRC[21:44:43] <andguent> i have this problem since 2.0[21:44:53] <andguent> and now installed 3.1[21:45:43] <andguent> maybe i just need to reinstall the system... but nah thats even worse[21:46:07] <CIA-5> stippi * r28150 /haiku/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs):[21:46:07] <CIA-5> Patch by Artur Wyszynski with some changes by myself:[21:46:07] <CIA-5> * Resolved TODO: The type of the gradient is no longer encoded twice in the[21:46:07] <CIA-5> app_server link protocoll.[21:46:07] <CIA-5> * Moved instantiation of the BGradient into the LinkReceiver::ReadGradient()[21:46:08] <CIA-5> method.[21:46:10] <CIA-5> * Check success for (at least) ReadGradient() in ServerWindow.[21:48:24] <VinDuv> IIRC, the build does strange things if your HFS+ partition is not case sensitive[21:48:44] <andguent> i put all the stuff in a case sensitive thing[21:48:45] *** tqh has quit IRC[21:49:56] <andguent> i stop for now...i would get mad. i am so helpless ...it has to be something so obivous...look, it's just this stupid everyday tool "ar" which is not working...that can't be possible[21:51:36] *** Stefan100 is now known as Iceball[21:51:40] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[21:53:03] *** Iceball has quit IRC[21:53:16] *** Iceball has joined #haiku[21:55:41] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[21:59:45] *** Iceball is now known as Stefan100[22:00:00] *** Stefan100 is now known as Iceball[22:01:36] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[22:02:53] *** nutela has joined #haiku[22:03:13] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[22:04:39] <nutela> Good evening[22:05:56] <serj> good it is[22:07:43] <nutela> that's ncie[22:08:26] <nutela> hmm matroska_reader, h.264.codec enabled nice[22:15:30] <nutela> quiet here[22:15:50] <helf> hey nutela[22:15:52] <Iceball> khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan[22:16:00] <nutela> Hi helf![22:16:06] <nutela> wazzup?[22:16:19] <helf> From the pits of HELL I glare at thee![22:16:23] <helf> not much[22:16:23] <helf> you?[22:16:26] <helf> bored at work[22:16:31] <helf> putting off inventory aas long as possible[22:16:31] * nutela looking for a media center[22:17:05] <nutela> my kid got name's day today bought her a train from duplo (lego)[22:17:56] <nutela> here in cz every day has a different first name and each day people who have the same name celebrate[22:18:17] <nutela> so today is Tereza :-)[22:19:45] <helf> To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.[22:19:51] <helf> moby dick has some of the best lines ever[22:19:52] <nutela> http://cia.vc/blog/2008/01/still-alive-honest/ check the 419 comments ha![22:20:06] <helf> nice, nutela :P[22:20:09] <nutela> hehe[22:20:36] <nutela> 419=scam[22:20:43] <nutela> IIRC[22:21:11] * DeadYak signs up to have several million dollars transferred to his bank account from Nigeria[22:21:23] *** oco has quit IRC[22:21:56] <nutela> I was looking at the tvix 6500, is has no wifi but otherwise is is the same price as the ps3, wonder if it will give me more[22:22:00] <nutela> Hi DeadYak![22:22:11] <DeadYak> hiya[22:22:19] <nutela> glad to see um 'you' -r text[22:23:12] <DeadYak> pardon?[22:23:27] <nutela> seen anything BeGeistert related? was this past weekend... wanted to go but cheap plane tickets were long gone[22:23:41] *** Iceball is now known as Stefan100[22:23:42] <nutela> DeadYak glad to see you[22:23:54] <DeadYak> likewise :) I think a few people have posted photos from BG but...[22:24:01] <DeadYak> other than that, mostly been seeing commits[22:24:32] <nutela> building right now[22:25:05] *** Euver has quit IRC[22:26:46] *** AndrevS has joined #haiku[22:27:30] <nutela> seen the fountain btw? got a part of the sound track from a gf, very nice[22:27:38][22:27:48] <nutela> too bad my mail box exploeded by it almost[22:28:11] <nutela> and now anything orignal from you helf ;-)[22:28:56] <helf> :][22:30:12] <nutela> is that all?[22:30:14] <nutela> ;-)[22:30:29] *** serj has quit IRC[22:31:21] *** aldeck has quit IRC[22:32:06] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[22:32:40] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[22:36:15] <nutela> cu later[22:36:22] <nutela> g'night[22:39:54] *** korli_ has joined #haiku[22:44:28] *** andguent has quit IRC[22:45:03] *** sprma_ has quit IRC[22:46:46] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[22:48:49] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[23:04:52] <PulkoMandy> +++[23:04:58] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:06:44] <CIA-5> stippi * r28151 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/TextView.cpp: (log message trimmed)[23:06:44] <CIA-5> zooey + stippi:[23:06:44] <CIA-5> * Fix the calculation of the fTextRect member. The BeOS behavior (and also the[23:06:44] <CIA-5> previous Haiku behavior) was to recalculate the "bottom" always. This was not[23:06:44] <CIA-5> taken care of in SetTextRect() (needs to override the passed bottom).[23:06:47] <CIA-5> * The insets are already tracked in fLayoutData, use this in[23:06:49] <CIA-5> _UpdateScrollBars() to calculate the correct data width/height (an[23:13:25] <CIA-5> aldeck * r28152 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/tracker/ (5 files):[23:13:25] <CIA-5> * Simply check if fTrashContextMenu->Window() is non NULL. This should be the definitive[23:13:25] <CIA-5> solution :)[23:19:20] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[23:19:27] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[23:20:06] <dr_evil> puhhh, finally home[23:20:35] <DeadYak> evening :)[23:23:39] <CIA-5> axeld * r28153 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/system_info.cpp: * The "info" KDL command now also dumps the built-in SVN revision.[23:26:28] *** oco has joined #haiku[23:26:47] <dr_evil> looks like 3 running computers are enough to heat the living room[23:27:10] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[23:27:48] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[23:28:05] <DeadYak> dr_evil: hahaha[23:28:18] <DeadYak> dr_evil: or 1 P4? :-)[23:30:29] <dr_evil> 1 Athlon, 1 E8400, 1 E6600[23:30:36] <DeadYak> ah[23:30:48] <dr_evil> and about 13 TB of storage[23:30:56] <DeadYak> :o[23:31:08] <dr_evil> and this notebook ;)[23:31:52] <dr_evil> well, I used the servers, by downloading 1 mp3 file while beeing at girlfriends this evening :)[23:32:20] <DeadYak> do I[23:32:22] <DeadYak> err[23:32:31] <DeadYak> do I want to know what kind of setup you have managing all that storage?[23:32:35] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:34:26] <dr_evil> oh it's pretty simple. one machine with 16 500GB harddisks running as RAID6 on a hardware controller, and another machine with 6 1TB drives in software RAID5[23:34:56] <dr_evil> the other machine has only a single harddisk and is soon to be removed anyway[23:35:08] <dr_evil> of 120 GB that is[23:35:27] <DeadYak> are those external arrays or do you have a very very large case? :)[23:36:13] <dr_evil> the 6 harddisks fit into a mini tower[23:36:25] <dr_evil> the 16 into a slightly larger big tower case[23:36:51] <DeadYak> 6 hdds in a mini tower? I rarely see any with close to that many drive bays[23:37:13] <dr_evil> perhaps it's midi[23:37:25] <dr_evil> about 40 cm high[23:37:54] <DeadYak> are you using the bays where things like CD drives would normally go for hard disks or... ?[23:38:08] *** Stefan100 has quit IRC[23:38:09] <dr_evil> yes[23:38:23] <DeadYak> ah ok, that makes more sense )[23:38:24] <DeadYak> er :)[23:38:29] <DeadYak> I was thinking 6 internal bays[23:39:50] <AlienSoldier> vertically use the space of the 5 1/4 bay would allow for lot of HD, and the airflow would be better[23:40:23] <AlienSoldier> of course that would need to build custum bracket[23:40:37] <AlienSoldier> *custom[23:42:05] <dr_evil> the 16 machine has two stacks with 8 hdds and two 12cm fans each, hold together by cardboard[23:42:19] <DeadYak> lol nice[23:43:39] <AlienSoldier> does it have DVNO printed in gold?[23:44:09] <dr_evil> err what?[23:44:13] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[23:44:31] <dr_evil> you don't believe? I have some old pictures[23:44:41] <AlienSoldier> i beleive :)[23:44:52] <dr_evil> http://overhagen.de/hdd_stack1.jpg http://overhagen.de/hdd_stack2.jpg http://overhagen.de/hdd_stack3.jpg http://overhagen.de/hdd_stack4.jpg http://overhagen.de/hdd_stack5.jpg[23:44:53] <AlienSoldier> already saw pic of some big server you got[23:45:49] <dr_evil> yes, I have to admitt, its an old server case, slightly larger than a big tower. but you could fit them into a big tower, too[23:46:25] <AlienSoldier> when are you moving to SSD? :P[23:46:57] <DeadYak> :o[23:47:02] <dr_evil> too expensive. usually the machines are not running 24/7[23:47:25] <DeadYak> :o[23:47:27] <DeadYak> damn[23:47:38] <dr_evil> btw. cardboard is very nice to build such stuff. it's not so noisy as using metal, and easier to fit[23:47:39] <DeadYak> impressive and scary all at once :)[23:47:49] <dr_evil> it is really stable[23:49:01][23:49:30] <dr_evil> all fans are working[23:49:59] <AlienSoldier> those HD beg to soak in mineral oil :P[23:51:01] <AlienSoldier> i guess if all are working at same time, noise must be noticable[23:52:02] <dr_evil> no. you notice the fans, but not the discs[23:53:08] <anarchos> zing[23:54:18] <dr_evil> I should setup wake-on-lan and move them to the cellar, soon[23:56:34] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[23:57:11] *** luroh has quit IRC