October 17, 2007 
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October 17, 2007 [00:00:57] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC[00:01:29] *** ndim has left #haiku[00:02:51] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[00:02:56] <miqlas> re![00:06:51] *** emitrax__ has quit IRC[00:11:38] *** kr1stof has left #haiku[00:15:46] *** judgen2 has joined #haiku[00:16:14] <judgen2> im ircin from withing haiku >o)[00:16:16] <judgen2> hrhr[00:17:48] <judgen2> surfin seems to work fine too[00:19:54] <judgen2> sound dont work properly, but thats no biggy[00:25:52] *** acidx has joined #haiku[00:35:29] *** judgen2 has quit IRC[00:39:25] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[00:43:02] *** Sikosis has joined #haiku[00:43:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Sikosis[00:49:38] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[00:50:18] *** flyinghippo|AWAY has joined #haiku[00:52:55] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[00:53:00] <Judgen> am i correct to assume that there are no gfx 2d driver for vmware, and i will have to do with vesa?[00:54:20] <AlienSoldier> no idea, what is the vmware grx defauklt driver hook?[00:54:31] <AlienSoldier> *grfx[00:55:35] *** wildur has quit IRC[00:57:36] <AlienSoldier> hum, seem it use it's own virtual card[00:58:34] <Judgen> yeah[00:58:36] <Judgen> sadly[00:58:40] *** rhu has quit IRC[00:58:56] <Judgen> but i think the sources are available from xorg atleast... maybe those can tell something[00:59:03] <Judgen> under gpl though[01:00:45] *** Psyduck has joined #haiku[01:01:06] <AlienSoldier> Judgen just ask to rudolf to code one overnight :P he like challenge :)[01:01:23] <Judgen> hasnt he quit coding?[01:01:29] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[01:01:38] *** rhu has joined #haiku[01:01:46] <AlienSoldier> he probablty slowed but he is back[01:03:11] <Judgen> anyone got an url to bone7a btw?[01:03:20] <Judgen> how nice =)[01:03:52] <AlienSoldier> i don't but i can mail it to you[01:04:36] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC[01:08:22] *** flyinghippo|AWAY has quit IRC[01:10:23] *** magnetron has quit IRC[01:11:05] *** jacktravis has joined #haiku[01:13:25] *** umccullough_work has joined #haiku[01:13:35] *** jacktravis has quit IRC[01:19:44] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[01:21:16] *** NeoOokami has joined #haiku[01:31:22] <pyCube> oh man..[01:31:35] * pyCube found a nice tea[01:31:44] <pyCube> heh..[01:31:53] <pyCube> sheesh.. i am becoming a tea nerd[01:32:15] *** oco has quit IRC[01:35:08] <Judgen> AlienSoldier: i found it on bebits[01:35:09] <Judgen> hehe[01:35:14] <Judgen> mr x has been at it again[01:35:40] <Judgen> i want tea too[01:35:52] <Judgen> all i got is some frosty cole[01:35:54] <Judgen> cola[01:40:22] <myrkraverk> Judgen, he's back?[01:40:54] <myrkraverk> ah, yes, that[01:41:05] <myrkraverk> he seems to be offline since april ;)[01:41:09] <Judgen> ok[01:41:18] <Judgen> too bad[01:41:40] <myrkraverk> yeah, we could have max with dano by now, I guess[01:42:06] <Judgen> hahaha beos says my cpu runs at 60 mhz[01:42:11] <Judgen> and the clock is just nuts[01:42:29] <Judgen> just booted it, and now i have over an hour of uptime =)[01:43:09] <myrkraverk> oh, my uptime is 13 hours -- which can be true[01:44:04] <myrkraverk> what is the best beos api tutorial?[01:44:06] <Judgen> my osx uptime says, 8 hours, but in vmware beos fgoes all nuts. just like in vpc[01:44:07] <myrkraverk> the oreilly book?[01:44:36] <Judgen> and why the hell does vmware fusion have suspend as default. It makes me nuts[01:44:41] <myrkraverk> Judgen, my beos is in qemu, and everything works there, except the clock is not in sync[01:44:54] <Judgen> myrkraverk: how fast cpu?[01:45:12] <Judgen> is there an accelerated 2s driver for qemu?[01:45:15] <Judgen> 2d[01:45:26] <myrkraverk> 1750MHz[01:45:44] <myrkraverk> which is pretty close, I think it's actually more like 1799, but what do I know?[01:45:55] <myrkraverk> Judgen, no idea[01:46:18] <myrkraverk> Judgen, as long as my beos is "fast enough" I don't care ;-P[01:46:33] <Judgen> i would like it to play videos...[01:46:39] <Judgen> but im kinda funny that way[01:46:50] <myrkraverk> ah ;)[01:50:19] <umccullough_work> qemu emulates chips&tech video right?[01:50:38] <umccullough_work> ct16550 or something[01:50:46] <umccullough_work> don't remember what it is[01:50:51] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[01:51:32] <umccullough_work> no, it's Cirrus Logic[01:52:07] <umccullough_work> Cirrus Logic GD5446[01:52:39] <Judgen> would be sweet if we had one of those drivers.[01:53:26] <myrkraverk> yes ;)[02:00:14] *** Judgen has quit IRC[02:04:28] * myrkraverk makes a mental note of "maybe make a qemu video driver for beos/haiku"[02:04:43] *** Psyduck has quit IRC[02:05:07] <myrkraverk> for some more line noise: already investigating an nfs 4 client for beos/haiku[02:05:59] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku[02:06:24] <myrkraverk> (investigating means: reading nfs 4 specs, beos fs api stuff (forgotten what I read some time ago) and getting a feel for the task -- investigating does not mean writing code ;-)[02:11:47] *** NeoOokami has quit IRC[02:15:25] <myrkraverk> does anyone here know the state of smp support in haiku?[02:27:03] <umccullough_work> it supposedly exists and works[02:27:12] <umccullough_work> what version of NFS did mmu_man work on?[02:28:14] <myrkraverk> axeld's blog has "not yet" from 2005 with the smb tag ;/[02:28:17] <myrkraverk> no idea[02:28:34] <myrkraverk> I haven't met mmu_man for quite some time now ;-P[02:28:51] <myrkraverk> I was looking for his ssh port, but his clapcrest site seems gone[02:28:56] <umccullough_work> well, i know there's already an NFS implementation in the tree... right?[02:30:22] <umccullough_work> http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/haiku/haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/nfs/[02:30:50] <umccullough_work> oh, v2?[02:38:39] <myrkraverk> aparently so[02:40:22] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[02:52:00] *** Darknesss has quit IRC[02:52:22] <myrkraverk> which is better, be_app->PostMessage(B_QUIT_REQUESTED) or b_app_messenger->SendMessage( B_QUIT_REQUESTED ) ?[02:55:20] *** pyCube has quit IRC[02:57:58] <umccullough_work> i've heard that PostMessage() kinda sucks[02:58:11] <umccullough_work> but i don't know the details[02:59:04] <umccullough_work> http://www.beunited.org/bebook/The%20Application%20Kit/Looper.html#PostMessage()[02:59:18] <umccullough_work> looks like the "BMessenger version is preferred" according to the annotated bebook[02:59:37] <myrkraverk> yes, that's what I was reading too[02:59:50] <myrkraverk> only, all the tutorials I've seen refer to app->PostMessage()[02:59:55] <umccullough_work> i think they even deprecated PostMessage() in Zeta because it had problems[03:00:02] <myrkraverk> ah[03:00:15] <umccullough_work> or suggested not using it anyway[03:01:21] <umccullough_work> http://www.osnews.com/story.php/7057/Send-Messages-in-a-Post-PostMessage()-API/[03:02:31] <myrkraverk> ah *reading*[03:02:52] <umccullough_work> So, i've seen code snippets where it #ifdefs around the BEOS_VERSION to use SendMessage() on zeta and PostMessage() on R5 :P[03:04:06] <umccullough_work> some nice input from Diane Hackborn in those comments[03:04:18] <umccullough_work> Dianne[03:07:22] *** acidx has quit IRC[03:10:16] <myrkraverk> yes ;)[03:15:12] *** Judgen has joined #haiku[03:15:21] <Judgen> yay now sound works too[03:15:36] <Judgen> it just lags something horriffic when i move the mouse[03:15:49] <Judgen> so if i hold still there is no problem =)[03:18:20] <myrkraverk> Judgen, vmware?[03:18:33] * myrkraverk doesn't care much about sound (yet)[03:18:35] <Judgen> yup[03:18:40] <umccullough_work> OSS?[03:18:49] <umccullough_work> last i tried OSS on haiku in vmware, it sucked[03:19:06] <Judgen> and networking woks fine too[03:19:25] <Judgen> im running both haiku and BeOS R5bone simoultaniously[03:19:50] <Judgen> and ubuntu =P[03:20:23] <Judgen> im going to install windows and amiga os3.9 soon too so i can play with them all at once =)[03:20:34] <myrkraverk> I'm just using r5 -bone and haiku, and both work just about equally well, with networking (in qemu)[03:20:48] <myrkraverk> I haven't bothered to bone my r5 yet[03:24:07] *** absabs has joined #haiku[03:28:01] <Judgen> hehe[03:28:39] <Judgen> seems haiku cant handly both my cores... BeOS seems to be able though[03:29:50] <Judgen> but ill have to wait , maybe forever to be able to install on this machine natively. There are no 8168 nic driver and no alv888 sound driver afaik.. and im pretty addicted to music.[03:33:16] <myrkraverk> ;)[03:43:20] *** M_199 has joined #haiku[03:45:37] *** Olathe has joined #haiku[03:46:45] <umccullough_work> isn't 8168 a variant of rtl8169?[03:47:12] <umccullough_work> anyhow, going home[03:47:32] *** umccullough_work has quit IRC[03:51:43] <Olathe> Is there a way to request a change to the VMware test image ?[03:52:46] <myrkraverk> as expected, using b_app_messenger.SendMessage( B_QUIT_REQUESTED ); works[03:52:58] <myrkraverk> (without it, the app doens't quit on window close)[03:55:01] <myrkraverk> and of course, it also works to use be_app->PostMessage( B_QUIT_REQUESTED );[03:56:04] *** M199 has quit IRC[03:57:06] <myrkraverk> now, for the 128bit question: what happens when two threads use be_app->PostMessage() at the same time?[03:58:41] <JonathanThompson> You get double-posting :)[03:59:56] *** mmadia has quit IRC[04:00:51] <myrkraverk> the question was about the thread safety of PostMessage()[04:00:57] <myrkraverk> in haiku, it aparently is ;)[04:01:17] <JonathanThompson> What my understanding is of BeOS is that it isn't as safe.[04:01:51] <myrkraverk> that's 1) unfortunate and 2) a little hard to ascertain ;)[04:02:07] <JonathanThompson> Depends on what/whom you have access to :P[04:02:34] <myrkraverk> I can always disassemble libbe.so ;)[04:04:24] <myrkraverk> on that note, where is libbe.so in beos?[04:04:36] <JonathanThompson> I honestly haven't looked.[04:05:22] <JonathanThompson> Sort of the BeOS thing, "If you have to think about it too much, it's probably not what you wanted it to be anyway"[04:06:36] * Hodapp thinks about that deeply... DAMMIT WTF[04:09:13] <myrkraverk> wasn't there once a be api project for unix systems?[04:09:22] <JonathanThompson> Cosmo.[04:09:37] <JonathanThompson> Or wait, Blue Eyed OS[04:09:43] <JonathanThompson> Well, perhaps a bit of both :)[04:10:09] <myrkraverk> what happened to them?[04:10:13] <myrkraverk> is the code still around?[04:10:45] <JonathanThompson> I don't know the answer to the latter.[04:11:05] <JonathanThompson> But, I think "Loss of interest and Real Life interruptions" hit for the first question.[04:11:30] <myrkraverk> ;)[04:15:44] <myrkraverk> a disassemble of libbe.so is only 5M and counting ;)[04:18:04] <myrkraverk> I hope my current 1G of free space (or so) is enough ;)[04:27:22] <myrkraverk> does beos have the concept of daemons?[04:27:37] <JonathanThompson> Servers are the equivalent.[04:27:44] <JonathanThompson> Or, the closest to it.[04:28:11] <JonathanThompson> Actually, there's the mail daemon.[04:28:23] <JonathanThompson> AKA "The Mail Server" I think.[04:31:23] <myrkraverk> so, if I want to make something that runs all the time, should I read about servers?[04:31:38] * JonathanThompson hands myrkraverk a ticket to ride on the South Lake Union Trolley on the day it opens[04:31:48] <JonathanThompson> I don't see why not :)[04:32:18] <stargater> n8[04:32:21] <JonathanThompson> Not much to read, I guess.[04:32:24] *** stargater has quit IRC[04:32:25] <JonathanThompson> night, Stamrogh[04:32:38] <JonathanThompson> D'OH! Too slow, tab-completion screwed up :P[04:32:48] <myrkraverk> ;)[04:33:00] <myrkraverk> I only know very little about unix daemons ;-P[04:33:11] <myrkraverk> and I know too little about beos ;)[04:33:28] <JonathanThompson> Well, things are greatly simplified in that there's NO security in BeOS/Haiku to worry about :P[04:33:56] <myrkraverk> that is one kind of simplicity I can live without ;)[04:34:00] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[04:47:09] <myrkraverk> there is nothing in PostMessage() assembly dump that screams *lock*[04:55:18] *** Cube-ness has joined #haiku[04:55:19] *** pyCube has quit IRC[05:02:02] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[05:02:03] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[05:04:06] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC[05:18:00] *** Cube-ness is now known as pyCube[05:24:59] <etteyafed> pyCube: Cube-ness is good[05:25:38] <pyCube> heh[05:40:43] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[05:46:26] *** absabs has left #haiku[05:53:46] *** etteyafed is now known as dooldle[05:53:53] *** dooldle is now known as etteyafed[05:58:32] *** JonathanThompson has joined #Haiku[06:00:51] <etteyafed> anyone know the mask for NickServ?[06:01:02] <myrkraverk> the mask?[06:01:12] <etteyafed> yeah[06:01:15] * JonathanThompson suspects it's not "Zorro"[06:01:18] <myrkraverk> etteyafed, you're afraid it's been taken over?[06:01:48] <myrkraverk> here, /whois shows nickserv@services[06:01:53] <etteyafed> yes thats it i am nutty[06:02:09] <myrkraverk> ;)[06:02:11] <etteyafed> yeah services.[06:02:18] <etteyafed> but . what[06:02:28] <etteyafed> etteyafe at 68-113-163-245 dot dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com is mine[06:03:04] <myrkraverk> so?[06:03:42] <myrkraverk> is there a mailing list, or a forum about beos app development?[06:03:56] <etteyafed> i need to get a mask in a etteyafed!etteyafed@*[06:04:06] <myrkraverk> now that beunited is gone, I don't know one ;/[06:04:09] <etteyafed> format but for NIckServe[06:04:33] <myrkraverk> huh?[06:04:43] <myrkraverk> you mean, you're trying and failing to register?[06:05:11] <etteyafed> like NickServ!services at irc dot freenode.net[06:05:16] <etteyafed> no i am registered[06:05:42] <etteyafed> well i will try what i have, just does not look right[06:05:57] <myrkraverk> ok, I don't even know what your trying ;)[06:06:18] <etteyafed> nor do i[06:07:01] <myrkraverk> ;)[06:07:25] <myrkraverk> damn, I hate your != you're errors, and I just made one myself ;/[06:08:56] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[06:29:17] *** frodobeg25 has quit IRC[06:38:10] *** frodobeg25 has joined #haiku[07:10:22] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[07:51:59] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[07:55:56] *** Cube-ness has joined #haiku[07:55:56] *** pyCube has quit IRC[08:00:06] <myrkraverk> am I alone here?[08:03:17] <cizra> yep[08:04:11] <etteyafed> I have a bot that has aiml[08:04:44] <etteyafed> does anyone want to meet her? it is a new one. /msg CherryCola[08:04:52] <etteyafed> it you do[08:05:05] <etteyafed> s/t/s/[08:16:30] *** magnetron has joined #haiku[08:32:56] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[08:34:22] <Begasus> morning peeps[08:41:35] <Judgen> gaah now that stupid group is everywhere[08:41:49] <Judgen> even intel uses their music in theur commercials[08:42:16] <Judgen> the commercials after each other... two of them even used the same song[08:55:58] *** kokito has quit IRC[09:03:08] *** Sikosis has quit IRC[09:19:19] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[09:40:51] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[09:55:54] *** stargater has joined #haiku[09:55:57] <stargater> moin[09:58:57] <plfiorini> moin stargater[10:09:13] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[10:09:33] <Ingenu> hi[10:10:53] *** Begasus is now known as Begasus_bbl[10:12:17] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[10:13:19] *** magnetron has quit IRC[10:44:04] *** Cube-ness has quit IRC[10:46:02] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[10:58:59] * JonathanThompson just saw gcc return the error message "Virtual memory exhausted"[10:59:42] *** meisje has joined #haiku[11:02:11] <IcePic> JonathanThompson: might be ulimits also.[11:02:33] <JonathanThompson> Well, I have had SeaMonkey running for a very long time, using most of my RAM, according to ProcessController.[11:02:45] <JonathanThompson> I terminated it nicely, and then restarted the compile, and it was fine.[11:03:11] <IcePic> ok.[11:03:25] <JonathanThompson> I don't have my VM preferences beyond the default, and compared to most these days, I have a small amount of RAM I'm running with.... but, it's not like I had anything extremely insane for code I was building.[11:03:42] <JonathanThompson> Obviously, though, STL causes it to use a lot of memory quickly :)[11:09:16] <pyCube> etc[11:10:01] <JonathanThompson> But, I have to blame it all on SeaMonkey leaking memory over the long-term.[11:10:16] <JonathanThompson> Or, at least it has a major case of heap fragmentation that never recovers to a decent level.[11:14:27] *** lorglas has quit IRC[11:15:11] <pyCube> hmm.. parts of new mexico look really nice[11:15:49] <JonathanThompson> Still bitten by living location wanderlust?[11:16:27] <pyCube> yeah[11:16:39] * JonathanThompson pictures pyCube as a gypsy Python developer, along with his family in a Dodge Caravan, using a laptop via wireless he siphons off others[11:16:58] <pyCube> someplace that would allow for a good solar option house wise would be cool[11:17:22] <JonathanThompson> Well, New Mexico and Arizona don't lack for sunny days :)[11:17:27] <pyCube> but also someplace where its possible to grow food[11:17:30] <pyCube> yeah[11:17:42] <pyCube> just not the particular region of az i am in now[11:18:01] <JonathanThompson> And despite the reputation (earned or not) Seattle uses solar-powered parking meters in quite a few places.[11:18:21] <JonathanThompson> (Reputation for being dark and cloudy)[11:18:38] <pyCube> well.. running a parking meter is different than running a house with 3 kids and my computers[11:18:39] <pyCube> heh[11:18:45] <JonathanThompson> Very true.[11:19:12] * JonathanThompson wonders if pyCube plugs his kids in at night like his computers[11:19:41] <pyCube> normally, a key aspect of sleep is to be 'unplugged'[11:20:17] <JonathanThompson> That's part of the reason why I've gone through the expense of having a completely separate room for my computer stuff to be in from the room I sleep and otherwise live in.[11:20:23] <JonathanThompson> There needs to be a balance of power.[11:20:49] <JonathanThompson> I really don't want to listen to my computer(s) powered on all night.[11:22:10] <JonathanThompson> I'm contemplating picking myself up a Mac Mini, as much as anything, because of the form factor.[11:23:33] <Thom_Holwerda> my laptop is now a dud :/[11:23:53] <JonathanThompson> What sort of dud do you have for a laptop?[11:23:55] <Thom_Holwerda> the battery was already dead (after less than a year!) and now the power adapter is broken[11:24:22] <Thom_Holwerda> the laptop is only 14 months old or so[11:24:34] <JonathanThompson> That stinks. Probably just past the warranty, right?[11:24:45] <Thom_Holwerda> yes[11:24:48] <Thom_Holwerda> and in addition[11:24:57] <Thom_Holwerda> it was bought in the US, it's a gift from OSNews' owner[11:25:14] <JonathanThompson> Can't get parts where you're at?[11:25:32] <Thom_Holwerda> it's a dell, so that wont be a problem... but a battery alone costs 120E or something[11:25:37] <Thom_Holwerda> and i need a new power adapter too[11:25:43] *** Darknesss has joined #haiku[11:26:06] <Thom_Holwerda> and the laptop itself is falling apart too[11:26:20] <Thom_Holwerda> ginges are broken, paint is chipping all over the place, keys are loose[11:26:25] <Thom_Holwerda> it's a disaster[11:26:28] <Thom_Holwerda> hinges*[11:26:29] * JonathanThompson leaves a mental note for himself, "Dude, DON'T get a Dell laptop!"[11:26:55] * Thom_Holwerda longs for his iBook[11:27:12] * JonathanThompson hands him the next best thing, the Pirate Apple version, the AyeAyeBook[11:29:03] <JonathanThompson> I was thinking yesterday, even though a Mac Mini isn't the fastest thing available, compared to what I currently own, I believe it'd still be faster than all I own, combined.[11:29:21] <Thom_Holwerda> 112E battery, 54E adapter[11:29:24] <Thom_Holwerda> jesus christ[11:29:30] <Thom_Holwerda> why dont they ask for a kidney[11:29:46] <JonathanThompson> It isn't as easy finding a good match :)[11:31:01] <JonathanThompson> Though given the choice, I'd far rather prefer having a dead laptop with no hopes of recovery from that, rather than anything related to kidney failure.[11:31:11] <JonathanThompson> Renal failure makes you feel like crap, to put it nicely.[11:32:13] <Thom_Holwerda> i was just kidding, obviously.[11:34:13] <Ketsuban> I hate this connection.[11:34:51] <JonathanThompson> ;/me hands Ketsuban a Samurai Sword to sever the connection he hates[11:35:10] <JonathanThompson> Darn typo.[11:37:44] <Ingenu> can you send me one and a licence to kill please ?[11:37:45] <Ingenu> ty[11:38:02] * JonathanThompson sends Ingenu one sword, but the license he can't arrange[11:38:53] <JonathanThompson> Be sure that you step carefully, and don't fall on your newly acquired sword by mistake, Ingenu: I don't want to need to use the high-pressure hose to clean up the mess![11:39:32] <Ingenu> :p[11:42:20] * JonathanThompson wonders if Ingenu is using his Real Life Name or just an anonymous username[11:42:57] <Ingenu> nickname[11:43:13] <JonathanThompson> Like Jack Burton (can't think of how to spell his real name)[11:43:18] <Ingenu> not like I couldn't use my real name though[11:43:23] *** Ingenu is now known as Rod[11:43:24] *** miqlas has quit IRC[11:43:28] <Rod> stupid[11:43:33] *** Rod is now known as Roderic[11:43:40] <Roderic> reserved[11:43:47][11:43:48] <Roderic> that sucks[11:43:54] <JonathanThompson> I know if Jack Burton used his full real name, it'd get truncated in here.[11:43:56] *** Roderic is now known as Ingneu[11:44:01] *** Ingneu is now known as Ingenu[11:44:30] <JonathanThompson> I think my name is at the limits of name lengths for the server to allow.[11:46:10] <MrSunshine> why is it that no commits has shown here in a couple of days?[11:46:20] <JonathanThompson> I think someone killed CIA.[11:47:01] <MrSunshine> CIA-5 is here[11:47:10] <JonathanThompson> Yes, but it appears to be a zombie only.[11:47:35] <Ingenu> mmh[11:47:48] <Ingenu> I've no log, but I think I saw some stuff passing by a couple of days ago[11:48:36] <Ketsuban> Ingenu: I'd like to see an IRC server which supported UTF-8 nicks.[11:49:12] <Ketsuban> I'd change my name to 欠番 just to take advantage of it. ;)[11:49:30] <MrSunshine> in the app server, does that one hold a offscreen bitmap for each window or just for the whole desktop ?[11:49:35] * JonathanThompson slaps Ketsuban sillier than normal with a horny salmon[11:49:42] <Ketsuban> Oh you~[11:49:56] <JonathanThompson> Does what one, MrSunshine?[11:50:16] <MrSunshine> wha? :)[11:50:23] <JonathanThompson> Exactly :)[11:50:30] <JonathanThompson> Resubmit your query: it was malformed :)[11:50:38] <Ketsuban> I think he's asking if the app_server does any desktop composition.[11:50:53] <JonathanThompson> Without clarification, I'm making no attempts to answer.[11:51:57] <Ingenu> I'm not convinced using 3D hardware for desktop GUI is such a good idea[11:52:06] <Ingenu> because it likely means more power consumption[11:52:13] <Ingenu> especially for laptops[11:52:56] <IcePic> then again, gfx chips only concentrate on 3d anyhow, so any acceleration is bound to 3d, which means making your 2d desktop a non-moving 3d surface allows for lots of neat speedups.[11:53:10] <JonathanThompson> I suspect the power consumption is proportional to the number of windows composited, so a simple user that only uses a couple of windows hardly affects anything, and can usually do fine without 3D compositing.[11:53:28] <MrSunshine> JonathanThompson, well if theres a drawing buffer for each window in the size of the window or if all windows are drawn to a buffer with the size of the screen directly[11:53:37] <Ingenu> the 3D core would have to be working, whereas it usually is offline on a laptop[11:53:54] <JonathanThompson> I believe the current App_Server has a single (well, n workspaces) bitmaps, and each view draws into that.[11:54:07] <JonathanThompson> Of course, you can also create explicit bitmaps not on screen as well.[11:54:42] <Ingenu> PicassoGL[12:00:03] * JonathanThompson heads off to the soft horizontal plane with fluffy disturbances[12:00:17] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku[12:02:48] *** andre_zzz is now known as Andre[12:02:53] *** Andre is now known as AndrevS[12:04:57] <MrSunshine> Ingenu, well visa seems to manage fine with 3d accelerated desktop[12:05:24] <MrSunshine> and you know graphic cards has power management aswell ? .. downclocking and stuff if im not mistaking :)[12:05:43] <Ingenu> only very modern GPUs have that[12:06:02] <Ingenu> AFAIR til last year all they had was 2d/3d cores on/off feature[12:06:42] <MrSunshine> not an issue for me tho .. not using so outdated computers :P[12:14:25] *** meisje has quit IRC[12:18:57] *** stargater has quit IRC[12:42:09] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[12:42:10] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton[12:45:53] *** BePower has joined #haiku[12:48:58] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[12:56:57] *** Euver has joined #haiku[13:07:18] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[13:08:18] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[13:12:07] *** Atomozero has joined #haiku[13:13:14] <MrSunshine> hmm... i wonder if perl compiles out of the box for beos ...[13:13:29] <MrSunshine> or if alot of hacking is needed :([13:14:18] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: it compiles[13:14:36] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: i did some perl-related work these days, but on haiku[13:14:48] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: there's support for beos (perl-5.8.8/hints/beos.sh)[13:15:30] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: if you use flock_server just copy flock_server/src/headers/flock.h from flock_server sources to /boot/home/config/include[13:15:32] <JBurton> Atomozero ma non lavori mai ?[13:15:33] <JBurton> :)[13:15:44] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC[13:16:17] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[13:16:20] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: and edit perl-5.8.8/hints/beos.sh because the flock_server check is broken unless cc is defined (just change beos.sh or link cc to gcc or do alias cc=gcc)[13:16:30] <Atomozero> JBurton proot holavorato come uno schiavo questa mattina[13:16:40] <plfiorini> Atomozero: lavoratoreeeeeeeeeeee[13:16:58] <Atomozero> i need $$$$$$$$[13:17:32] <MrSunshine> plfiorini, humm k :)[13:18:01] <JBurton> Atomozero same here[13:18:02] <JBurton> :P[13:18:28] <Atomozero> voi lavoratori dipendenti che news portate?[13:18:29] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: it would be better to compile it on haiku but i gave up because it's too slow on qemu or vmware[13:18:59] <JBurton> Atomozero appena finito una riunione[13:19:00] <MrSunshine> plfiorini, hehe im using vmware so :P[13:19:04] <MrSunshine> will take some time i guess :)[13:19:08] <JBurton> adesso mi sa che stacco e vado[13:19:09] <MrSunshine> but need a newer version[13:19:19] <IcePic> this might be a stupid question, so bear with me, but is gcc on haiku good enough to build perl, but not to make haiku self-hosting?[13:19:20] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: i am planning to compile some stuff on r5 into some zip to expand on the haiku image[13:19:33] <Atomozero> JBurton ciaooo[13:19:38] <JBurton> IcePic yeah it's stable[13:19:46] <JBurton> problem is with some headers[13:19:57] <plfiorini> IcePic: it's stable but it's the same version used in r5 (the one you find in bebits)[13:20:03] <IcePic> JBurton: ok, thanks.[13:20:24] <JBurton> bye all[13:20:26] <plfiorini> by[13:20:27] *** JBurton has quit IRC[13:20:36] <JonathanThompson> IcePic, it isn't gcc that's the limiting factor in self-hosting.[13:20:43] <IcePic> I somehow got the impression self-hosting was out because of issues while compiling on haiku, which I personally assumed was gcc related.[13:20:53] <JonathanThompson> It's Haiku itself, mainly the VM subsystem being incomplete and buggy.[13:20:54] * IcePic jumped somewhat to conclusions there.[13:21:05] <MrSunshine> i was also under that impression[13:21:14] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: i noticed it freeze somewhat[13:21:26] <JonathanThompson> gcc, or Haiku, plfiorini?[13:21:45] <JonathanThompson> (Or gcc running on Haiku)[13:22:14] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: on vmware/qemu compiling large programs like perl is a pain, the virtual machines get slower and slower[13:22:34] <JonathanThompson> Even when using BeOS in the virtual machine to do the building?[13:22:43] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: not tryed yet[13:23:20] <JonathanThompson> I don't currently own a machine with a fast enough CPU(s) and enough RAM to make it worth bothering via emulation, but fortunately, for the same reason, it works well natively :)[13:23:28] <JonathanThompson> (As well as Haiku works, anyway)[13:23:45] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: i got two horribly old machines, the first one is not so fast even for an empty zeta 1.2 desktop - i'm planning to "merge" the two machines to get a better old computer and run zeta, max and haiku[13:24:02] <JonathanThompson> What CPU, speed, and amount of RAM?[13:24:15] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: one has got a pentium 2 with 64M[13:24:35] <JonathanThompson> The other?[13:24:41] <plfiorini> the second which doesn't have a power supply now has got a pentium don't remeber what[13:24:50] <plfiorini> do you remeber those big pentium cpus?[13:24:51] <JonathanThompson> What year did you buy it new?[13:24:56] <JonathanThompson> Which one? :)[13:26:02] <JonathanThompson> IS it newer or older than the P2?[13:26:02] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[13:26:42] <plfiorini> it seems this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Intel_P3Slot.jpg[13:26:54] <MrSunshine> plfiorini, wtf ... perl stable doesnt have a configure file? :/[13:26:57] <plfiorini> but i am not sure if it's that or the overdrive[13:27:04] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: ./configure.gnu[13:27:19] <JonathanThompson> I wonder, if it is the overdrive, if BeOS will run on it...[13:27:38] <JonathanThompson> How much RAM in that one?[13:27:50] <IcePic> MrSunshine: I thought perl had two even[13:28:03] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: didn't check, those are "gifts"[13:28:08] <JonathanThompson> Ah.[13:28:09] <plfiorini> Jo[13:28:14] <IcePic> MrSunshine: one with caps'ed C, Config or Configure something[13:28:24] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: so i don't know when they bought those old machines[13:28:25] <JonathanThompson> Well, it sounds like your native running hardware is older and slower with less RAM than mine :)[13:28:34] <plfiorini> hehe[13:28:41] <MrSunshine> plfiorini, what is flock server?[13:28:41] <MrSunshine> :)[13:28:42] <JonathanThompson> (Which is an accomplishment of dubious value)[13:29:07] <JonathanThompson> Or, in other words, you've become an antiquated electronics dumping ground, plfiorini :P[13:29:12] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: client/server architecture to emulate flock() call because neither beos nor haiku has got it[13:29:21] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: check flock_server on bebits[13:29:29] <MrSunshine> plfiorini, its needed ?[13:29:48] <JonathanThompson> You need it, yes.[13:29:52] <plfiorini> yep[13:30:17] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: yes i am collecting old computers to run beos, my new hw seems unsupported[13:30:37] <JonathanThompson> That's sort of one reason I've not bought new hardware in so long...[13:30:44] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: but maybe my dual core amd 64 with 2gb ram can do much better even with vmware[13:30:57] <JonathanThompson> However, I need to be sure my current hardware doesn't die in the mean time.[13:31:22] <JonathanThompson> From what you told me you have in native hardware, I can answer "Yes" it will do GL Teapots MUCH faster :)[13:31:32] <JonathanThompson> Even with only VESA drivers in greyscale.[13:31:43] *** Begasus_bbl has quit IRC[13:31:48] <plfiorini> heheh but i don't need GL teapot :=)[13:32:01] <plfiorini> just some power to build perl, autoconf, etc...[13:32:08] <JonathanThompson> I ran BeOS on a work-owned 3.4 Ghz laptop under Virtual PC 2004, and even in greyscale VESA, it blew away this machine on teapots.[13:32:18] *** Begasus_bbl has joined #haiku[13:32:43] <MrSunshine> plfiorini, it cant find flock.h even tho i have it in home/config/include[13:32:47] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: if haiku can boot on these machines i can make some stuff build natively on haiku[13:32:55] <JonathanThompson> Well, my point is, plfiorini, that if it can blow my machine away doing GL Teapots, it'll be faster in practice on average for raw computing, because it doesn't need to virtualize so much.[13:33:11] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: yeah because it tries to build a program to test flock()[13:33:24] <JonathanThompson> Until Haiku is self-hosting, Haiku won't be worth trying to build anything on, plfiorini.[13:33:27] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: using cc compilter, try alias cc=gcc and then rerun configure.gnu[13:33:51] <JonathanThompson> And with 64 megs RAM, even a fast CPU would make that PAINFUL to build Haiku itself on.[13:34:04] <JonathanThompson> (Assuming the VM subsystem were perfect and complete)[13:34:20] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: which is not and i guess a part of my problems are there[13:34:45] <JonathanThompson> Honestly, that old real hardware and only 64 megs RAM? You're wasting a lot of time doing that.[13:35:04] <JonathanThompson> A VMWare rendition of BeOS will build faster, assuming you give it enough RAM to play with.[13:35:06] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: it's better to build some zip which will un pack on /boot on vmware/r5[13:35:32] <MrSunshine> plfiorini, and i have to run flock_server ig uess? :)[13:35:32] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: i'm also planning to buy 4gb of ram[13:35:39] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: yep :)[13:35:41] *** petterhj has quit IRC[13:35:48] <JonathanThompson> BeOS won't itself use that kind of RAM :)[13:35:52] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: flock_server & on /boot/home/config/boot/UserBootscript[13:36:03] * plfiorini can now remember a lot of beos paths[13:36:16] *** Begasus_bbl is now known as Begasus[13:36:16] <JonathanThompson> But, you should be able to run many instances of BeOS/Haiku comfortably at the same time with that RAM :P[13:36:42] <plfiorini> i've lost a lot of beos memories, relearning everything these days - but i'm doing some progress[13:37:12] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: that's what i wanted to do[13:37:17] <JonathanThompson> I expect I'll get a completely new (minus monitor) machine early next year, when the low-power versions of the Penryn generation Xeon are out.[13:37:42] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: i heard something about the next quadcore - it will be my next machine[13:37:48] <JonathanThompson> I haven't decided yet whether to start with 4 or 8 Gigs RAM with the dual xeons.[13:37:56] *** frodobeg25 has quit IRC[13:38:13] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: anyway i am user that when my current computer will be old, there won't be quadcores maybe 8-cores[13:38:27] <JonathanThompson> The ones still using the FSB, or the Nehalem, which has Intel's answer to HyperTransport?[13:39:02] *** AndrevS has quit IRC[13:39:05] <JonathanThompson> Well, this machine is 1999 technology, and I can't help but wonder if the next main machine I get (for whatever reason) will also end up being that old.[13:39:15] *** BePower has quit IRC[13:39:35] *** AndrevS has joined #haiku[13:39:56] <JonathanThompson> I can't help but get paranoid that this machine may die of old age and a battle damage, because it's had a hard life.[13:40:26] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: next year intel release 45nm Core 2[13:40:42] <plfiorini> FSB @1.600Mhz[13:41:02] <JonathanThompson> Yes, I'll be getting dual Penryns, I expect. The first Xeons come out November 12th this year, but I want the lower power ones.[13:41:26] <plfiorini> noooooooooooo http://punto-informatico.it/punto/20071017/netscape9.jpg[13:41:29] * JonathanThompson doesn't like sitting in front of blast furnaces that happen to process data[13:41:36] <plfiorini> ahahah[13:42:21] <JonathanThompson> Thw work laptop I had from January 2005 to September 2006 with the 3.4 Ghz P4 was a geek's birth control method, due to the incredible amount of waste heat it generated.[13:42:57] <IcePic> "as long as you had fun with it, you wont have sex?"[13:42:58] <IcePic> ;)[13:43:11] <JonathanThompson> Nah, it got so hot, it was bothersome :P[13:43:47] <JonathanThompson> It was more accurately a "Desktop Replacement" and they didn't encourage you to use it on your lap.[13:44:01] <JonathanThompson> And it didn't work well on your lap, either: it was prone to overheating and shutting down.[13:44:11] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: anyway if you don't do graphics, video and audio your next machine won't be old for the next 4 or 5 years[13:44:26] *** Begasus is now known as Begasus_bbl[13:44:27] <plfiorini> even if you use vista :P[13:44:28] <JonathanThompson> Even in the heat wave here last year where the computer room probably got to 120 F, this old computer ran steady.[13:44:49] <JonathanThompson> That's what I was thinking, plfiorini, as long as I have enough RAM :)[13:45:15] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: just buy as much ram as your pocket can[13:45:27] <JonathanThompson> This current machine can be expanded to 2 Gigs RAM, but it's too out of date to be worth it.[13:46:00] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: ram now doesn't cost so much, 2gb in a single module should be ~60 euro[13:46:20] <JonathanThompson> plfiorini, when I first bought this machine (more or less: I had to replace the first motherboard with a newer model because the first one died early) I got it with 256 Megs RAM, and people at work were asking, " JonathanThompson, what are you going to do with 256 megs RAM???"[13:46:36] <JonathanThompson> Well, FB-DIMMs are much more expensive :)[13:46:58] <JonathanThompson> Keep in mind, plfiorini, in 1999, this machine was actually more powerful than my company's main servers :P[13:47:11] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: my old computer (amd athlon xp @1,5ghz had 512mb ram and i thought it was enoguth)[13:47:16] *** jspiros_ has joined #haiku[13:47:37] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: i see it[13:47:52] <JonathanThompson> plfiorini, I'm perhaps also one of the few users that runs into the BeOS App_Server thread limit quite often :P[13:48:02] <plfiorini> ahahha[13:48:36] <JonathanThompson> I don't mind limits, as long as the system handles them gracefully.[13:48:47] <JonathanThompson> Sadly, BeOS... is far from graceful when it hits limits.[13:50:09] <JonathanThompson> If how it handled itself could be put into a sound bite, it'd be a resounding "SPLAT!"[13:50:10] *** jspiros_ has quit IRC[13:51:30] <MrSunshine> undefined reference to flock_close :([13:51:32] *** jspiros_ has joined #haiku[13:55:21] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:55:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[14:01:28] *** jspiros has quit IRC[14:02:15] *** rcjsuen_ has joined #haiku[14:07:27] *** rcjsuen_ is now known as rcjsuen[14:14:02] *** frodobeg25 has joined #haiku[14:15:29] <kad77> morning[14:18:44] <mmu_man> plop[14:20:12] <kad77> I'm so gla I set up my home office next to this picture window. awesome sunrises to wake to. :D[14:28:55] *** Euver has quit IRC[14:29:29] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[14:31:47] *** BePower has joined #haiku[14:41:30] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[14:56:35] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: mmmm i think you need -lflock[14:56:47] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: which should be put by hints/beos.sh[14:57:06] <plfiorini> maybe LDFLAGS=-lflock ./configure.gnu works[14:57:38] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: anyway, what you need to do with perl?[14:57:58] <plfiorini> autoscrewyourselftools?[15:02:36] <DeadYak> haha[15:02:37] <DeadYak> so true[15:02:59] <IcePic> autoconfiscated[15:17:10] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[15:26:58] <MrSunshine> plfiorini, llvm :P[15:28:01] *** meisje has joined #haiku[15:29:53] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: what's llvm?[15:30:07] <IcePic> a compiler[15:30:10] <IcePic> in the works.[15:30:29] <plfiorini> another compiler?[15:33:32] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[15:33:46] *** joostvb has joined #haiku[15:34:19] <joostvb> for those of you living near eindhoven, the netherlands: haiku installparty: http://enosig.org/archief/msg01176.html[15:41:39] *** meisje has quit IRC[15:49:06] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[16:13:32] *** TuneTracker has joined #Haiku[16:16:23] *** BePower has quit IRC[16:17:00] *** rhu has quit IRC[16:19:07] *** Begasus_bbl is now known as Begasus[16:19:42] *** rhu has joined #haiku[16:20:54] <Begasus> looks nice joostvb[16:24:42] *** reallyjoel has joined #haiku[16:29:33] <joostvb> Begasus: thanks :)[16:30:19] <Begasus> will do a post on BeBUG in a bit ;)[16:31:05] *** nielx has joined #haiku[16:46:42] *** zeristor has joined #haiku[16:50:46] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[16:56:29] *** rdmr has quit IRC[17:04:26] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku[17:16:29] *** Judgen has quit IRC[17:19:46] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[17:33:52] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[17:38:36] <Begasus> joostvb, is it the intention to do a Haiku install and or a Haiku demo at the meeting?[17:41:23] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[17:45:06] <joostvb> Begasus: install[17:45:13] <joostvb> Begasus: spreek je nederlands?[17:45:17] <Begasus> ja joostvb ;)[17:45:33] <Begasus> heb je al ervaring met het installeren van Haiku?[17:45:35] <joostvb> Begasus: well, there's not really a fixed plan, as you can read in the announcement[17:45:42] <joostvb> Begasus: nope, no experience at all[17:45:47] <Begasus> yeah read it ...[17:45:57] <joostvb> Begasus: i'd just like to try it, and see where it gets me[17:46:08] <Begasus> just wanted to get my facts straight for a post ;)[17:46:23] <Begasus> you could also create a live cd and check it that way ...[17:47:04] <joostvb> Begasus: ok, i'll do some rtfm-ing before[17:47:24] <Begasus> hehe ;)[17:47:58] <Begasus> also deppends on the hw a bit ... so running a live cd session could tell you if you have a chance on running it native ...[17:48:05] <joostvb> i saw the presentation at t-dose, that's the aanleiding[17:48:22] <Begasus> ah cool[17:48:30] <joostvb> it reminded me this was on my todo-list for a way too long time :)[17:48:32] <Begasus> didn't make it over there :s[17:48:37] <Begasus> hehe[17:49:09] <Begasus> so I gather Niels found some interested attendees ;)[17:49:20] <joostvb> absolutely, the talk was very good[17:49:30] <joostvb> and the audience was very interested indeed[17:50:15] <Begasus> shame I missed it ....[17:50:36] <Begasus> if I knew it was held in the early afternoon I probly could have made it over there ...[17:51:30] <joostvb> i believe it's captured on video[17:51:39] <joostvb> perhaps you can find it somewhere at www.t-dose.org[17:51:46] <joostvb> gotta go now: afk dinner[17:51:47] <joostvb> c u later[17:52:41] <Begasus> cu[17:54:43] *** rdmr has quit IRC[17:54:46] *** genkie has joined #haiku[17:59:06] *** mats has joined #haiku[18:00:56] *** Zaranthos has quit IRC[18:03:04] *** Zaranthos has joined #Haiku[18:03:14] *** reallyjoel has quit IRC[18:03:30] *** frodobeg25 has quit IRC[18:08:29] *** alpha-li1n is now known as alpha-lion[18:09:34] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[18:09:48] <Begasus> bugger ..; still cant wach the movie from tdose ... :s[18:09:55] *** BePower has joined #haiku[18:10:17] * JonathanThompson lobs a greeting from Mercer Island at Begasus[18:10:37] <Begasus> howdy JonathanThompson ;)[18:10:53] <JonathanThompson> Now that I'm awake after my fairly short nap...[18:13:03] <Ingenu> you elder[18:13:19] * JonathanThompson gets out his cane so he's able to get around[18:13:53] <JonathanThompson> Mind you, the "nap" was something started between 4-5 a.m. my time.[18:15:52] <Begasus> good to know you have a real life also ;)[18:15:56] *** DmitryM has joined #haiku[18:16:16] <JonathanThompson> Without a Real Life to be responsible for, this Fantasy Life would be unobtainable :)[18:17:36] <pyCube> so youre saying you have to have sin/nastiness/bad shit in order to know/appreciate good?[18:18:08] <JonathanThompson> That's not what I was thinking when I wrote that, but it's true, without the crap, you don't appreciate the food :)[18:18:24] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[18:19:11] <pyCube> "listen honey.. its just an apple.. besides, you dont appreciate this eden place enough"[18:20:10] *** DmitryM has quit IRC[18:29:25] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku[18:32:28] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[18:39:12] *** frodobeg25 has joined #haiku[18:41:01] *** rdmr has quit IRC[18:44:10] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[18:47:15] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[18:51:46] *** magnetron has joined #haiku[18:56:01] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[18:58:54] *** MangoFusion has joined #haiku[19:01:41] *** 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alpha-li1n has joined #haiku[20:32:36] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[20:34:44] *** Begasus has quit IRC[20:36:12] *** emitrax has quit IRC[20:36:33] *** TuneTracker has quit IRC[20:37:40] *** BePower has joined #haiku[20:41:56] *** emitrax__ has quit IRC[20:42:43] *** alpha-lion has quit IRC[20:44:43] *** Grapefroot has joined #haiku[20:44:54] <Grapefroot> so whats up guys[20:45:10] <Grapefroot> have you finished your work[20:45:19] <Grapefroot> i want to use haiku so common[20:45:25] <Grapefroot> iam a beos fan[20:45:37] <Grapefroot> do something[20:45:38] <AndrevS> hey[20:45:39] <Grapefroot> make it happen[20:46:11] <Grapefroot> beos was the best thing ever[20:46:23] <AndrevS> yeah.[20:46:35] <Grapefroot> and it would be a real alternative[20:46:50] <Grapefroot> the problem is the latest beos version dont run on my box[20:46:53] <Grapefroot> i dont know why[20:46:58] <Grapefroot> but i would like to use it[20:47:13] <AndrevS> did you aply the patches[20:47:22] <Grapefroot> no[20:47:23] <AndrevS> ( for example AMD patch, 512MB+ patch )[20:47:46] <Grapefroot> i had an annoying thing, that the rtl 8139 card didnt work[20:47:47] <AndrevS> so, if you have an AMD, or more then 512 MB of RAM, BeOS R5 won't run, unless you apply the patches[20:47:54] <Grapefroot> no network card was working[20:48:13] <Grapefroot> so there are still developers on beos?[20:48:47] <AndrevS> http://www.bebits.com/app/2116[20:49:02] <AndrevS> Be Inc. went down back in 2001[20:49:37] <Grapefroot> i know[20:49:45] <Grapefroot> iam sorry about that[20:49:48] <AndrevS> yeah...[20:49:59] <AndrevS> they were too early with Internet Applications....[20:50:06] <Grapefroot> true[20:50:21] <Grapefroot> i hope haiku will reach that status one day[20:50:31] <AndrevS> yeah... me too...[20:51:41] <Grapefroot> iam not a developer[20:51:48] <Grapefroot> otherwise i would help[20:52:00] *** frodobeg25 has joined #haiku[20:55:14] <AndrevS> same for me... just starting to learn a bit of c/c++ but not enough to do some real stuff....[20:55:29] *** SprMa has quit IRC[20:56:17] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[20:57:32] <Grapefroot> true true[20:58:13] *** meisje has quit IRC[21:03:59] *** Grapefroot has quit IRC[21:06:18] *** rgb has joined #haiku[21:20:28] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[21:25:30] *** BePower2 has joined #haiku[21:31:29] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[21:43:32] *** MangoFusion has quit IRC[21:43:53] *** BePower has quit IRC[21:44:02] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[21:44:24] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[21:47:14] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[21:49:15] *** Euver has quit IRC[21:54:45] *** morfj has quit IRC[22:01:56] *** stargater has joined #haiku[22:02:00] <stargater> Hi[22:02:12] * JonathanThompson starts up the chevron encoding process[22:02:47] <Thom_Holwerda> JonathanThompson: do you know the Double Chevron?[22:02:56] <JonathanThompson> Not personally :P[22:02:59] <stargater> :-)[22:03:35] <Thom_Holwerda> The Double Chevron is the badge of Citroen[22:03:36] * JonathanThompson wonders if Apple will also announce on October 26th that the Mac Mini is defunct for availability/purchase[22:04:34] <JonathanThompson> Let's face it: Apple got the form factor for something you can stick out of the way, very nicely done for that, without forcing you to get a laptop.[22:04:41] <JonathanThompson> Ok, so the RAM isn't that expandable, etc...[22:04:52] <Thom_Holwerda> the mini has a bigger problem than that[22:04:57] <Thom_Holwerda> its UGLY[22:04:58] <JonathanThompson> Which one?[22:05:05] <JonathanThompson> All a matter of taste :)[22:05:22] <JonathanThompson> Besides, if you saw what I'm sitting in front of, that's so not an issue in comparison :PPPP[22:05:49] <Thom_Holwerda> well, my current mac is a cube[22:06:16] <Thom_Holwerda> the only thing that would not be SUCH a bad step down from the cube would be the new imac[22:06:23] <Thom_Holwerda> and even that's considerably uglier[22:06:38] <johndrinkwater> put the mini inside the cube?[22:07:00] <Thom_Holwerda> i dont do stuff like that, warranty issues and such[22:07:05] *** nielx has quit IRC[22:10:26] *** Ketsuban has quit IRC[22:10:37] *** Ketsuban has joined #haiku[22:14:54] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[22:30:32] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[22:31:03] <Thom_Holwerda> god i hate slow news days[22:32:21] <MrSunshine> god i hate when i have no inspiration :)[22:32:49] <MrSunshine> in what files are the actual drawing of the interface done? ... the interface kit ?`[22:35:07] <MrSunshine> ye interface kit :)[22:36:23] <MrSunshine> is composite something thats actualy in the graphic card or what?[22:45:18] *** Ketsuban_ has joined #haiku[22:51:45] *** joostvb has left #haiku[22:53:51] *** TuneTracker has joined #Haiku[22:57:13] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[22:58:40] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[23:01:47] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[23:03:55] *** insomnia has quit IRC[23:04:22] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[23:05:12] *** Thomas__ has joined #haiku[23:06:19] *** Ketsuban has quit IRC[23:07:05] *** BePower2 has quit IRC[23:10:38] <Ingenu> night[23:10:47] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:15:35] *** TuneTracker has quit IRC[23:18:18] *** Ketsuban_ has quit IRC[23:19:39] *** rgb has quit IRC[23:27:37] *** emitrax has quit IRC[23:31:22] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC[23:40:42] *** insomnia has joined #Haiku[23:42:47] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[23:52:18] *** stippi has quit IRC[23:57:04] *** Cube-ness has joined #haiku[23:57:05] *** pyCube has quit IRC