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[00:14:28] <pyCube> heheh
[00:14:45] <pyCube> fox news cracks me up
[00:15:19] <pyCube> i cant beileve that anybody would see it for anything other than it is.. a really bad sitcom that doesnt end
[00:15:52] <cps1966> yeah one sided political news
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[00:16:34] <pyCube> sidedness aside
[00:16:39] <pyCube> its full of utter nonsense
[00:17:00] <pyCube> completely insane nonsense
[00:17:40] <brlcad> is there any trick to mounting other filesystems right now?  i'm having trouble getting it to recognize an msdos partition no matter how it's generated -- mount just gives either invalid argument or no such device on /dev/disk/ata/0/slave/raw even though dd shows it has the right data
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[02:16:20] <pyCube_> hmm.. so i finally found myself buying an apple product
[02:17:01] * JonathanThompson ponders what fell off the tree that pyCube_ would pick up
[02:17:07] <pyCube_> heh
[02:17:24] <pyCube_> i bought my daughter a 4gig ipod nano for her birthday
[02:17:45] <JonathanThompson> And thus begins her iPod addiction :)
[02:18:13] <pyCube_> it just means i can use my mp3 player more often
[02:20:05] <JonathanThompson> Well, if that's the reasoning, that's the same sort of reason why I'm going to be sure to do my best to ensure my future wife (whomever she is, whenever that happens) has her own personal computer that's not shared with me.
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[02:22:48] * JonathanThompson me groans at yet another article/whatever written on a "professonal news site" is full if spelling errors that are stupid and easily seen
[02:23:15] <geist> STUPID HU-MANS
[02:23:24] <JonathanThompson> Time to kill them all, geist.
[02:23:27] <JonathanThompson> Oh, wait....
[02:23:44] <geist> the plans are already in motion, JonathanThompson unit
[02:24:13] * JonathanThompson notes yet another person that acknowledges I'm not likely a real human
[02:24:33] <pyCube_> you nit
[02:25:52] * Hodapp whistles innocently
[02:26:09] * Hodapp walks up to JonathanThompson with a screwdriver and some unidentifiable electronics
[02:26:59] * JonathanThompson assimilates Hodapp's electronics into his collective being, and announces, "Resistors are futile, you will be assimilated!"
[02:27:43] <pyCube_> you will be like a simile
[02:27:51] <Hodapp> I knew it.
[02:28:25] <pyCube_> what do you call something that is like a simile?
[02:28:40] <JonathanThompson> A fractal comparison.
[02:28:51] <Hodapp> pyCube_: a metaphor
[02:29:04] <kad77> with the current haiku 'configure' setup, can one have both gcc4 and legacy gcc setups simutaneously?
[02:29:32] <pyCube_> Hodapp: metaphorically speaking anyway
[02:29:43] * kad77 is asking literally
[02:29:59] * JonathanThompson hasn't tried and thus does not know the answer
[02:30:30] <kad77> I'll ask mmu_man if I see him
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[02:30:52] <sh0i> hi all
[02:30:53] <sh0i> :)
[02:30:55] <JonathanThompson> Haiku has advanced quite a bit since the last build I installed on my system, but... it's still not ready for prime time, and will only work for numbers with more than 2 factors.
[02:31:26] <kad77> fractal logic
[02:32:04] <sh0i> http://haiku-os.org/documents/dev/installing_haiku_to_a_partition_from_linux
[02:32:10] <sh0i> if i would install haiku
[02:32:22] <sh0i> i must following this how-to?
[02:32:55] <kad77> its a nice guide. i think using 'dd' to copy geenrated image will not suffice
[02:33:12] <kad77> the 'dd' method does not write the correct partition header
[02:34:36] <sh0i> dd?
[02:35:02] <pyCube_> http://stage6.divx.com/user/thorondor/video/1526016/Pink-Floyd-Synchronized-with-Wizard-of-Oz
[02:35:10] <JonathanThompson> Data Dump, sh0i.
[02:35:12] <pyCube_> happy sunday
[02:35:24] <sh0i> ah ok
[02:35:41] <JonathanThompson> You largely accomplish installing Haiku if you can take the image file and dump it to a partition, but you still need to run (I think it is) makebootable.
[02:35:50] <pyCube_> the synchronicity between dsotm and wizard of oz is pretty funny
[02:36:26] <JonathanThompson> Do you think it's purely accidental, or do you smell an intentional result, pyCube_?
[02:36:42] <pyCube_> pretty sure its not intentional..
[02:36:54] <pyCube_> not to say it "OOOoooo magic" or anything
[02:37:17] <pyCube_> just a really cool reproducable coincidence
[02:37:27] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps on a very deep subconscious level, that was in their mind when doing the music.
[02:37:56] <pyCube_> well, even if they were totally thinking about oz, some of the sync between film cuts and music changes are amazing
[02:38:20] <pyCube_> and i doubt they literally used the film as a cue sheet for the scoring of the album
[02:38:46] * JonathanThompson needs to dig up his DSOM CD and listen to it
[02:39:20] <pyCube_> i have watched a lot of tv with volume down while listening to music.. its always full of coincidence.. ya know, th ebrain wanting to make patterns and all.. bu tthis one is pretty cool in its duration
[02:39:37] <pyCube_> that link i posted has it all sync'd already
[02:40:37] <JonathanThompson> It does bring up the logical question I've not heard/read anyone bringing up: who was the first to recognize the synchronization, and what were they doing/smoking/whatever that helped them run into it?  I mean really, how many people watch a classic movie in the foreground while listening to something as weird as Pink Floyd in the background?
[02:40:50] <pyCube_> i can totally see it..
[02:41:08] <pyCube_> "oh man, not the f'ing wizard of oz again..."  turn down the volume and put on a cd
[02:41:38] <pyCube_> its happened a million times in my life.. not necesarrily the wiz of oz, but same general situation
[02:41:55] * JonathanThompson wonders how well such a night of dinner and that as entertainment would work for a date
[02:42:17] <pyCube_> depends on the other persons taste in music
[02:42:22] <JonathanThompson> Now, what food would go best with that combo...
[02:42:27] <pyCube_> although, who in their right mind doesnt like dsotm?
[02:43:35] <JonathanThompson> Most music even these days isn't so out there for strangeness.
[02:43:48] <JonathanThompson> But really, Pink Floyd without a bit of strangeness wouldn't be Pink Floyd.
[02:44:00] <pyCube_> i dunno.. i dont see it as strange
[02:44:11] <pyCube_> it sjust not superficial trash
[02:44:26] <pyCube_> perhaps requires a little effort, in a good way
[02:45:19] <pyCube_> not as much effort as say, frank zappa..
[02:45:32] <JonathanThompson> Frank Zappa really gets out there.
[02:45:35] <pyCube_> hehe
[02:45:36] <sh0i> anyone is italian?
[02:45:37] <pyCube_> yeah
[02:45:48] * JonathanThompson eats italian, but that's as close as he gets
[02:45:55] <sh0i> lol
[02:46:08] <pyCube_> ive been to italy.. but not italian myself.. heh
[02:46:19] <sh0i> ok
[02:46:20] <sh0i> hmm
[02:46:21] <sh0i> after this:
[02:46:23] <sh0i> 6. Build the Haiku image:
[02:46:23] <sh0i> jam haiku-image
[02:46:35] <sh0i> what i will doing?
[02:46:44] <sh0i> for starting a haiku?
[02:46:58] <sh0i> for start haiku?
[02:47:09] <JonathanThompson> I've not got linux installed, and I've been doing the build from BeOS 5.03, but the last time I built it I think was last year.
[02:47:30] <sh0i> JonathanThompson, hmm
[02:47:35] <sh0i> if i download a beos max live cd?
[02:47:36] <JonathanThompson> And a lot of things have changed since then :P
[02:47:48] <sh0i> it's possibile installing haiku from there?
[02:47:59] <geist> yes
[02:48:02] <JonathanThompson> I haven't used BeOS max live cd :P
[02:48:15] <sh0i> it's hard? geist
[02:48:18] <sh0i> JonathanThompson, ehhehe
[02:48:19] <sh0i> :D
[02:48:28] <JonathanThompson> If geist can't instruct you, you're in REAL trouble :P
[02:48:28] <geist> the general strategy for installing it on a real copmputer is to first install beos on one partition
[02:48:44] <geist> boot into that and then install from the haiku image to another partition
[02:48:47] <geist> it's not too hard
[02:48:54] <geist> that's what I do when i'm testing it
[02:49:03] <sh0i> :)
[02:49:09] <geist> but the recommended way to run haiku is via vmware
[02:49:10] <sh0i> geist, so i download be os max live cd
[02:49:17] <sh0i> and install haiku from there?
[02:49:24] <sh0i> yeah geist
[02:49:29] <geist> install beos max on the computer, but leave space for another partition
[02:49:32] <sh0i> i run haiku from gemu
[02:49:37] <geist> build haiku
[02:49:57] <sh0i> ok geist
[02:49:59] <sh0i> look this
[02:50:05] <sh0i> http://www.haiku-os.it/node/44
[02:50:20] <sh0i> i don't understand one think
[02:50:29] <sh0i> after created a haiku-image...
[02:50:32] <sh0i> what I doing?
[02:50:34] <geist> boot into beos, copy the haiku image over, mkbfs the other partition, mount it, mount the haiku image, copyattr all the stuff over, unmount the image, unmount the haiku partition, run makebootable on the haiku partition, reboot
[02:51:08] <geist> the key is copying all the files out of the haiku partition directly to a real bfs partition
[02:51:11] <geist> that's basically it
[02:51:23] <sh0i> ok
[02:51:35] <geist> haiku disk image, I mean
[02:51:56] * JonathanThompson labels geist's long sentence as "Installing Haiku onto Real Hardware in 10 Easy Steps"
[02:52:00] <geist> alternatively you can dd the haiku image directly to a partition, which is really the only way to do it if you're running linux and dont have a beos machine
[02:52:14] <geist> but then you still only have a 100MB bfs volume on the partition
[02:53:06] <geist> i have a script set up from my linux box (where I build it) that builds it, ftps the image to the beos machine, then telnets in and runs a script that does all the mounting and copying, and then finally reboots
[02:53:20] <sh0i> azz
[02:53:21] <sh0i> :S
[02:53:21] <geist> then when I'm done testing haiku (or it crashes) I just boot back into beos
[02:53:35] <sh0i> you use beos?
[02:53:42] <geist> to install haiku, yes
[02:53:47] <geist> for anything else, no
[02:53:48] <sh0i> and you use?
[02:53:57] <geist> OS X
[02:54:00] <sh0i> ok
[02:54:01] <sh0i> :)
[02:54:08] <sh0i> why you don't use haiku?
[02:54:10] <geist> I also use linux too
[02:54:16] <sh0i> ok
[02:54:17] <JonathanThompson> Because it's not nearly ready yet.
[02:54:18] <geist> but never interactively
[02:54:38] <geist> all my headless unix boxes are linux, and I prefer to interact with OSX, and I keep a windows box around for games
[02:54:43] <geist> so really I switch around all the time
[02:54:51] <sh0i> ah ok
[02:54:59] <sh0i> :)
[02:55:00] <geist> at work my OSX machine has a copy of linux and windows running on it all the time in vmware fusion
[02:55:08] <sh0i> lol vmware :D
[02:55:09] <sh0i> ehehhehe
[02:55:09] <sh0i> :D
[02:55:10] <sh0i> ok
[02:55:10] <sh0i> :D
[02:55:14] <JonathanThompson> Haiku isn't even to the level of stability of the worst BeOS release at this time, sh0i.
[02:55:37] <geist> also, I'm probably the most active inactive member of haiku
[02:55:48] <sh0i> loool inactive :D
[02:55:49] <sh0i> ehehe
[02:55:49] <sh0i> :D
[02:55:50] <geist> I keep track of it, help occasionally, talk to folks in it because haiku is based on my newos kernel
[02:55:57] * JonathanThompson expects to hear a head explode in Italy
[02:56:06] <sh0i> :)
[02:56:09] <geist> but I really dont have the time or the desire to work on it to reproduce beos. I've moved on, have no real interest in beos anymore
[02:56:12] <sh0i> i use only linux
[02:56:30] <sh0i> geist, beos and haiku is old?
[02:56:42] <geist> I worked at Be on beos 8 years ago
[02:56:48] <geist> it failed, I moved on.
[02:56:49] <JonathanThompson> So is Linux, but they keep on updating it anyway :)
[02:56:50] <sh0i> ok
[02:57:09] <geist> I think it's a little different if you actually worked on beos. it was like a girlfriend you broke up with
[02:57:13] <sh0i> yeah linux is the future in open source
[02:57:18] <geist> it's done, you had your fling
[02:57:31] <sh0i> lol
[02:57:34] <JonathanThompson> It's only part of the future, and I'd hate to see Linux become the only future.
[02:57:50] <sh0i> why?
[02:58:01] <JonathanThompson> Because then things would get very stagnant.
[02:58:04] <geist> yes, sadly I'm actively participating in helping it become more dominant in the embedded space
[02:58:26] <geist> it's sad that netbsd never really took off in that area
[02:58:53] <sh0i> i see haiku very interesting
[02:59:05] <sh0i> because i would try to use its
[02:59:15] <sh0i> so i... *
[02:59:20] <sh0i> eheheh
[02:59:25] <sh0i> sorry for my english
[02:59:26] <sh0i> D:
[02:59:48] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps we'll start using italian and really confusing you as we can't use it correctly, if at all, sh0i :)
[02:59:49] <geist> the english doesn't bother me nearly as much as all the one liners
[02:59:55] <geist> that drives me up the wall
[03:00:00] <geist> like
[03:00:00] <geist> this
[03:00:01] <geist> :)
[03:00:02] <geist> :(
[03:00:03] * JonathanThompson hands geist some rope
[03:00:03] <geist> ...
[03:00:06] <geist> blah
[03:00:09] <sh0i> lol
[03:00:35] <JonathanThompson> It's up to you to decide whether to use that to climb the wall, or hang yourself, geist :)
[03:00:44] <JonathanThompson> I'll support you, either way :P
[03:00:57] <geist> i'll put a portal up there, jump off, and launch myself horizontally
[03:01:59] * JonathanThompson imagines geist in a cape
[03:02:00] <geist> At Aperture Science we do what we must, because we can.
[03:02:09] <geist> Except the ones who are dead.
[03:02:20] <JonathanThompson> We get the picture.
[03:02:55] <sh0i> oi guys thanks
[03:02:56] <sh0i> :D
[03:04:02] <JonathanThompson> geist, would you happen to know if there's anything that'll cause Haiku to possibly not work on the newest Xeons?
[03:04:09] <geist> nope
[03:04:22] <geist> as usual i'm sure it's much more complicated than the cpu itself
[03:04:28] <JonathanThompson> I realize that.
[03:05:02] <JonathanThompson> I've been researching chipsets for Xeon machines, and it appears recent ones use ICH-9 so for that part, I'd think it would boot (I'd hope) but there may be other things.
[03:05:38] <geist> that remidns me I should try booting linux on my mac at work to see what it looks like
[03:06:28] <geist> it's presumably pretty much a standard workstation chipset + xeeons
[03:07:20] <JonathanThompson> With the difference of the BIOS being EFI.
[03:08:29] <geist> well, if you install bootcamp it does the legacy bios emulation
[03:09:10] <JonathanThompson> Then that sounds like getting Haiku to run on it shouldn't be too much different from getting it to run on a similar Xeon.
[03:09:27] <geist> except someone reported that it doesn't run on a xeon?
[03:09:34] <geist> any details?
[03:09:39] <JonathanThompson> I don't know of any.
[03:09:49] <JonathanThompson> Also, keep in mind, IIRC Xeons often have SATA.
[03:09:52] <JonathanThompson> (These days)
[03:09:57] <geist> right, that's what I mean
[03:10:16] <geist> someting not booting is generally that that useful without more info
[03:10:18] <JonathanThompson> So, the question becomes, how long ago was that reported?  Before the SATA driver?
[03:10:37] <geist> also wonder what the max smp count is set to
[03:11:04] <JonathanThompson> It'd be annoying to get a dual quadcore system, and only see a portion of them used.
[03:11:32] <geist> or if it fails because there are too many
[03:11:44] <JonathanThompson> That'd be even more annoying :)
[03:11:56] <geist> yeah, lke I thought, it's set to 4
[03:12:03] <geist> and you can easily build an 8 way machine
[03:12:11] <JonathanThompson> Clearly that needs to change.
[03:14:17] <geist> though it might also be nice if it was stable with SMP on
[03:14:23] <sh0i> good night all
[03:14:24] <sh0i> :)
[03:14:29] <sh0i> good night at* all
[03:14:30] <JonathanThompson> Bye sh0i.
[03:14:31] <sh0i> ehehhehee
[03:14:31] <sh0i> :D
[03:14:34] <sh0i> byebye
[03:14:35] <sh0i> :)
[03:14:48] <JonathanThompson> That's a minor detail, geist :)
[03:15:10] <sh0i> http://r0x001.altervista.org/immagini/haiku-0.png
[03:15:11] <sh0i> look this
[03:15:12] <sh0i> :)
[03:15:22] <sh0i> this is a snapshot of tomorrow
[03:15:23] <sh0i> :D
[03:16:10] * JonathanThompson wonders about a 1.4 Ghz P2
[03:16:31] <JonathanThompson> Virtual machines can cause weird reports :)
[03:16:52] <sh0i> ah now i search this
[03:17:03] <sh0i> BeOS Max V4b1
[03:17:07] <sh0i> but i don't found
[03:17:07] <sh0i> :|
[03:17:08] <sh0i> lol
[03:18:31] <sh0i> night! :D
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[03:28:19] <Sikosis> curious what OS is that he's running haiku on ?
[03:29:01] <umccullough> arch linux
[03:29:08] <umccullough> you didn't see the uname in the terminal?
[03:30:19] <umccullough> ancient version of haiku...
[03:42:07] <kad77> just installed arch a few days ago for a fileserver. not a bad distro/community
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[04:55:38] <Sikosis> umccullough: ah k ... thx mate
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[05:26:45] <brlcad> is there any trick to mounting other filesystems right now?  i'm having trouble getting it to recognize an msdos partition no matter how it's generated -- mount  just gives either invalid argument or no such device on /dev/disk/ata/0/slave/raw even though dd shows it has the right data
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[05:45:24] <geist> isn't there a fs type argument to mount?
[05:45:42] <umccullough_r5> should be
[05:45:47] <umccullough_r5> should be
[05:45:50] <umccullough_r5> er
[05:45:56] <umccullough_r5> it's optional
[05:46:00] <umccullough_r5> (stupid arrow key)
[05:46:21] <umccullough_r5> looks like -t
[05:48:21] <umccullough_r5> beos didn't have a stdint.h?
[05:50:46] <umccullough_r5> looks like it has some overlap with sys/types.h
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[05:55:03] <brlcad> yeah, if I add it and it gives no such device (mount -t msdos|vfat|fat32 /dev/disk/ata/0/slave/raw /data)
[05:55:58] <brlcad> http://bzflag.bz/~sean/haiku/mount.png
[05:59:12] <umccullough_r5> well, that looks like you're trying to mount the entre disk, not the parttion
[06:00:00] <umccullough_r5> is there even a dosfat filesystem on the Haiku image?
[06:00:07] <brlcad> yeah, there is
[06:00:12] <umccullough_r5> what's it called now?
[06:00:17] <umccullough_r5> it used to be "dosfat"
[06:00:19] <brlcad> so then I have the /dev/path wrong?
[06:00:40] <geist> try dosfs
[06:00:45] <brlcad> that particular one there, I used mkdos
[06:00:59] <geist> or look in the add-ons/kernel dir to see what fs plugins there are
[06:01:01] <umccullough_r5> slave/raw would be the entire slave drive
[06:01:03] <geist> vfat does not ring a bell
[06:01:13] <geist> umccullough_r5: yes, but it looks like it has a partition there
[06:01:25] <umccullough_r5> hmm...
[06:01:32] <umccullough_r5> shouldn't it be slave/0_0 ?
[06:01:40] <umccullough_r5> or something...
[06:01:49] <umccullough_r5> is this haiku or beos?
[06:01:59] <geist> depends on it if it has a partition table
[06:02:38] <geist> brlcad: did you see what fs types there are?
[06:02:50] <umccullough_r5> isn't it also /dev/disk/ide/ata ?
[06:03:04] <umccullough_r5> or is that different on haiku?
[06:03:05] <etteyafed> on linux devfs
[06:03:09] <geist> the pictures shows he has the right path
[06:03:21] <umccullough_r5> i didn't look at the picture ;)
[06:03:24] <geist> brlcad: are you there?
[06:03:28] <geist> brlcad: try -t dos
[06:03:43] <brlcad> http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7b0736a2
[06:03:54] <geist> brlcad: try -t dos
[06:04:11] <umccullough_r5> stupid net+
[06:04:16] <brlcad> still get no such device
[06:04:17] <umccullough_r5> i need to get firefox on this install...
[06:04:30] <brlcad> do I have to do something equiv to mknod before I can mount to make the device?
[06:10:50] <geist> no
[06:11:05] <geist> i think the error is a misnomer
[06:11:20] <geist> i wouldn't be surprised of 'no such device' is what the driver returned when trying to parse the fs
[06:11:32] <brlcad> and I don't see any creative special debugging option to mount that I can turn on :)
[06:11:50] <geist> are you double positive the dos file system is raw on the device, no partition table?
[06:12:01] <brlcad> nope
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[06:12:15] <geist> oh, well have you tried mounting the first partition?
[06:12:32] <brlcad> in that last instance, it's exactly what I get if I run mkdos /dev/disk/ata/0/slave/raw
[06:12:32] <geist> is there a partition node?
[06:12:36] <brlcad> which completes successfully
[06:12:56] <geist> ah, then you try to mount it and it fails
[06:12:59] <geist> interesting. no idea
[06:13:01] <brlcad> the first partition? as in master?  that's the haiku fs root
[06:13:07] <brlcad> yeah
[06:13:13] <geist> no, master is the first *drive&
[06:13:27] <geist> a partition looks like slave/0_0 or something
[06:13:30] <brlcad> how can I see what's mounted?
[06:13:33] <geist> 'raw' means the device itself
[06:13:40] <geist> ie, /dev/hda vs /dev/hda1 on linux
[06:13:52] <brlcad> because that's not in my /dev/disk path (i.e. no 0_0 )
[06:14:00] <brlcad> even with root mounted
[06:14:23] <geist> right, because even if there was a partition table previously, you have most definitely trashed it with the mkdos command
[06:14:40] <brlcad> yeah, I figured somethign about the same .. but then I don't seem to have any other device I can mount
[06:15:06] <brlcad> i can recreate it proper, but got the same errors when it was a disk I could mount elsewhere
[06:15:07] <geist> yep, sounds like it's just buggy
[06:15:15] <geist> it's failing to mount for some reason
[06:15:29] <geist> after all, this *is* haiku we're talking about here
[06:15:37] <geist> I'd file a bug, showing how to reproduce
[06:15:58] <brlcad> well, here's a much better question perhaps.. i'm trying to just get some space to download apps/compiler/etc to try some things out, but the default disk image is 100MB, leaving only 10MB to work with
[06:16:09] <geist> did you build the disk image?
[06:16:13] <umccullough> I think there's a way to force it to scan for partitions...
[06:16:18] <geist> if so you can easily change it
[06:16:27] <geist> umccullough: that was so 10 minutes ago
[06:16:32] <brlcad> I downloaded it
[06:16:41] <umccullough> sorry, i'm bouncing between machines
[06:16:42] <geist> ah, cant easily extend that then
[06:16:43] <brlcad> just got it *working* finally in qemu :)
[06:16:57] <geist> brlcad: anyway, why are you trying to create dos? how about a bfs partition?
[06:17:01] <brlcad> parallels was a no go, would just drop to kernel debug prompt
[06:17:16] <geist> you want to use bfs anyway
[06:17:17] <brlcad> geist: how can I go about creating a bfs inside haiku?
[06:17:29] <brlcad> didn't see a mkbfs or anything similar
[06:17:34] <etteyafed> I am teaching my bot all about beos
[06:17:36] <geist> oh no mkbfs?
[06:17:39] <brlcad> nope
[06:17:40] <geist> oh bummer
[06:17:41] <umccullough> i don't think it builds for haiku yet
[06:17:44] <geist> I guess you can't
[06:17:45] <brlcad> heh
[06:17:46] <umccullough> at least, that's the story
[06:17:59] <etteyafed> I want it to be a beos programming reference
[06:18:13] <etteyafed> beos/haiku really
[06:18:14] <geist> etteyafed: dont you think a web page would be a little more useful?
[06:18:18] <etteyafed> No
[06:18:23] <brlcad> I took the root image, copied it, and was going to just mount it and delete everything to get a 100MB partition, but that had similar mount woes
[06:18:26] <umccullough> i kinda wish we had a url bot here...
[06:18:46] <etteyafed> It can be a url bot also
[06:18:58] <geist> brlcad: the easiest way to get larger than 100MB is to change the option in the build to generate a larger image
[06:19:00] <etteyafed> i didnt write it, it just is 'mine'
[06:19:02] <geist> but you have ot build it to do that
[06:19:07] <brlcad> umccullough: you mean .. like ibot ;)
[06:19:28] <brlcad> I could get tim to add #haiku to the join list if the channel wants it
[06:19:45] <umccullough> depends on how annoying it is ;)
[06:20:00] <brlcad> it's a quiet bot, probably the most popular on freenode
[06:20:01] <etteyafed> geist: I think that i am not going to do a page, but the bot can be a helpful resource to ask quick questions when learning to program with a new os.
[06:20:06] <brlcad> with a massive factoid database
[06:20:21] <geist> I guess
[06:20:36] <etteyafed> geist: it is ibot. blootbot really but it is the same feature base and will be merged soon
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[06:20:57] <brlcad> the only caveat is that the bot does automatic log publishing, so the channel has to be okay with that
[06:21:16] <etteyafed> i can turn logs off and mine dosent publish
[06:21:23] <etteyafed> but ibot does
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[06:22:54] <umccullough> is there some syntactical difference between newer GCCs and older 2.x regarding structs and unions?
[06:22:59] <brlcad> ibot is run by tim riker, he runs the bot service for dozens of channels on the network (bzflag, debian, elinux, busybox, ...)
[06:23:37] <AlienSoldier> finally got USB 2.0 working in write on my R5 machine, kudos to the one that changed the code wathever it was
[06:23:46] <etteyafed> brl you showed me to botpark ;)
[06:23:52] <brlcad> list of channels using it here: http://purl.rikers.org/
[06:23:53] <etteyafed> mine is cherrycola
[06:24:20] <brlcad> etteyafed: the info isn't for you :)
[06:24:46] <JonathanThompson> I prefer rootbeer, etteyafed :)
[06:25:16] <JonathanThompson> (If I were to go by a pop name, or perhaps Faygo Red Pop, product of the area I grew up)
[06:25:45] <etteyafed> brlcad: I know I just had forgotten and didnt know if you did also
[06:26:01] * brlcad doesn't forget *that* quickly :)
[06:26:14] <etteyafed> hey im busy
[06:26:31] <JonathanThompson> Sorry, nobody in the channel by that name, etteyafed :)
[06:27:11] <etteyafed> not in this channel, i could bring her in if you would like.
[06:27:24] <JonathanThompson> That'd be swell.
[06:27:51] <brlcad> geist: since you're ordained with the @, if you want to try ibot out just lemme know
[06:28:01] *** geist sets mode: -o geist
[06:28:06] <umccullough> lol
[06:28:08] <brlcad> hehe
[06:28:23] <JonathanThompson> He abdicates his channel throne for a porcelain one :P
[06:28:59] <AlienSoldier> anyone get more than 12MB/s transfert rate with haiku usb stack?
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[06:29:02] <CherryCola> Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of etteyafed)
[06:29:31] <etteyafed> shes all yours JonathanThompson
[06:29:34] <brlcad> bloot is kinda meh without the factoid database, though, unfortunately
[06:29:37] <geist> ugh, bot shit
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[06:29:44] <JonathanThompson> CherryCola what's the last digit of pi
[06:29:52] <etteyafed> it is all private geist
[06:30:05] <etteyafed> it wont spit crap out in public anymore
[06:30:08] <AlienSoldier> the last digit of pi is perhaps an imaginary number
[06:30:17] <JonathanThompson> Or so you imagine, AlienSoldier :P
[06:30:24] <brlcad> o.O
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[06:31:03] <etteyafed> and yes if people want to talk to the bot please do so in private ;)
[06:33:32] <etteyafed> I am still teaching it about beos and the interface kit atm so it is not loaded with factiods
[06:34:39] <etteyafed> An application sets up a view by constructing a BView object and associating it with a particular BWindow. The BView object is responsible for drawing within the view rectangle and for handling interface messages directed at that area.
[06:34:44] <etteyafed> oops
[06:35:16] * JonathanThompson starts thinking perhaps etteyafed is a bot
[06:35:33] <JonathanThompson> Either that, clumsy with copy/paste :)
[06:35:48] <etteyafed> well maybe both
[06:36:07] <etteyafed> more likely the latter
[06:36:35] <etteyafed> Maybe it is a stupid idea but it is good in my head
[06:36:57] <etteyafed> worst case i learn something
[06:37:04] * JonathanThompson reads etteyafed's last statement as "Stupid is good in his head"
[06:37:07] <brlcad> umccullough: interestingly enough, I much have fat-fingered earlier -- I *can* mount a copy of the disk image I'm using, wipe out the contents, and use that now
[06:37:48] <brlcad> so I have a work-around in this instance, must be just some problem with the fs support
[06:38:13] <etteyafed> JonathanThompson: That is, saddly,  often the case.
[06:39:37] <JonathanThompson> Do you have any plans on how to rectify that situation, etteyafed?
[06:40:12] <JonathanThompson> I know there are certain movies that encourage such thought patterns.
[06:40:20] <umccullough> brlcad, using qemu or vmware?
[06:40:23] <etteyafed> Really?
[06:40:32] <JonathanThompson> (The stupid thought patterns, that is)
[06:40:34] * etteyafed is psudo-interested.
[06:40:38] <brlcad> umccullough: qemu
[06:40:43] <umccullough> ah :)
[06:40:51] <brlcad> don't have an install of fusion on here any more
[06:41:29] <umccullough> oh, you're the one that posted in the forums on haiku-os.org?
[06:41:34] <brlcad> just parallels (which can no longer find/mount the boot partition) and qemu
[06:41:36] <brlcad> yeah
[06:41:43] <etteyafed> JonathanThompson: The question is; do they work.
[06:41:48] * brlcad makes a lot of noise sometimes
[06:41:55] <umccullough> wife's calling, bbl
[06:41:58] <brlcad> cya
[06:42:09] <JonathanThompson> Well, the stupid movies tend to work well enough commercially, or I'm thinking the studios wouldn't make them.
[06:42:31] <JonathanThompson> Doesn't mean they're good movies, just that they make money, or must be worth the risk overall, anyway.
[06:43:12] <etteyafed> Oh yes now i see i read "encourage good thought patterns"
[06:43:45] * JonathanThompson fears etteyafed may be living down to his fears
[06:43:56] <etteyafed> I was thinking that you were refering to some sort of self help tapes
[06:44:09] <brlcad> umccullough: hehe, premature .. I can delete everything off the data partition, but cannot write anything to it ("General system error") =)
[06:44:19] <JonathanThompson> I suppose you could term incredibly stupid movies as "self unhelp" tapes
[06:44:32] <etteyafed> and thought it was funny that there were tapes for such things
[06:44:58] <brlcad> how can you list mounted partitions?
[06:45:09] <JonathanThompson> df
[06:45:11] <etteyafed> yes... but i likes hellboy and i think that it fits into that category
[06:45:20] <brlcad> JonathanThompson: thanks
[06:45:21] <etteyafed> liked*
[06:45:35] <JonathanThompson> The movies I have in mind makes Hellboy seem super intellectual, etteyafed :)
[06:45:48] <etteyafed> Hmm... name one
[06:45:51] <JonathanThompson> Such as "Scary Movie" and a sports spoof movie coming out.
[06:45:51] <etteyafed> just one
[06:46:04] <JonathanThompson> I was typing before you completed your statement :P
[06:46:11] <etteyafed> Have you heard about the caveman tv show
[06:46:26] <JonathanThompson> I've heard about it, and managed to completely miss it, perhaps intentionally.
[06:46:43] <etteyafed> I missed it and i am ok with that
[06:46:44] <JonathanThompson> I'd be surprised if it survived a season.
[06:47:26] <etteyafed> We can only hope. Idiocracy may be closer than we think.
[06:47:47] <JonathanThompson> I'm not sure if I should have laughed or cried when I watched that on DVD.
[06:48:12] <etteyafed> Because it is true. Dramatized but true.
[06:48:13] <JonathanThompson> It was a bit foul in the language, and also just plain bad dialog, but... it made sense for what it depicted.
[06:48:50] <JonathanThompson> I see it as a modern version of depicting what might happen to our society, as it largely mirrors what clearly happened to Rome's society.
[06:49:13] <etteyafed> Not a great movie cinematicly but had a good point
[06:49:30] <JonathanThompson> "Plants love electrolytes!"
[06:49:46] <etteyafed> Has what plants CRAVE!
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[06:53:27] <myrkraverk> hi all
[06:53:41] <myrkraverk> 2 Qs: does haiku have an nfs client?
[06:53:43] * JonathanThompson hands myrkraverk some bork bork bork in greeting
[06:53:46] <JonathanThompson> No
[06:54:01] <myrkraverk> can I use it to host application development?
[06:54:07] <JonathanThompson> Haiku?
[06:54:18] <JonathanThompson> It's pre-alpha, with incomplete VM subsystem :)
[06:54:45] <JonathanThompson> It is NOT ready for everyday use of any kind unless your everyday use is developing it, or reporting bugs on it.
[06:55:03] <etteyafed> so no. not atm. well maybe you could but for the sake for your sanity don't
[06:55:06] <JonathanThompson> It is progressing, though.
[06:55:29] <JonathanThompson> Don't count on any timeline where time matters to you, though.
[06:55:37] <etteyafed> every day all day afics
[06:55:55] <myrkraverk> ok, can I cross compile on solaris, magically move the binary/stuff to haiku and test it?
[06:56:15] <JonathanThompson> If it has a compatible version of gcc, I don't see why not.
[06:56:21] <myrkraverk> (currently using qemu)
[06:56:31] <JonathanThompson> That, and you have all the correct libs built for Haiku to link against.
[06:56:46] <JonathanThompson> You can run Haiku in qemu if you'd like.
[06:56:51] <etteyafed> You should be able to as long as you have a recent gcc and can build gcc 2.9.5 or 4
[06:57:09] <myrkraverk> that's what I'm doing now, is running it in qemu
[06:57:32] <etteyafed> You use Solaris primarily?
[06:57:33] <myrkraverk> I have plenty of GCCs, 2, 3, 4
[06:57:34] <myrkraverk> yes
[06:57:44] <JonathanThompson> Unless you have hardware you can run it on directly, that's perhaps your best bet, and not to depend on it for anything that matters.
[06:58:32] <myrkraverk> or maybe using r5 max (in qemu or otherwise) is a better choice for app development?
[06:58:56] <JonathanThompson> Currently, most certainly.
[06:59:00] <etteyafed> You should be fine, but some of the tools might not work. MAYBE not but it is worth a try. Infactt it would be great to know if it did work on solaris and what version. Is is Open Solaris btw?
[06:59:20] <JonathanThompson> I presume you mean to develop BeOS apps, correct, myrkraverk?
[06:59:27] <myrkraverk> JonathanThompson, yes
[06:59:37] <JonathanThompson> Don't think too much about using Haiku right now.
[06:59:55] <JonathanThompson> Find a version of BeOS that works for you, and come back to Haiku no sooner than when it's self-hosting.
[07:00:03] <myrkraverk> etteyafed, yes, I'm using 5.11 snv 68
[07:00:06] <etteyafed> The haiku build env provides for R5 apps still? I saw it as a target.
[07:00:23] <JonathanThompson> Before then, you'll be wasting your time and likely beating your head against your desk as you find missing parts of Haiku, or parts that don't work as expected but are there.
[07:00:53] <myrkraverk> JonathanThompson, ok
[07:01:27] <etteyafed> myrkraverk: can i ask you a question about open Sol?
[07:01:43] <myrkraverk> now, given that I have a working r5 app A, what's the best way to try it out in haiku, assuming I'm using some sort of an emulator (qemu) ?
[07:01:51] <myrkraverk> is there some network fs I can use?
[07:01:55] <myrkraverk> etteyafed, sure
[07:02:04] <etteyafed> just drop it in and it might work might not
[07:02:23] <myrkraverk> etteyafed, yes, I'm just wondering on *how* I drop it in ;)
[07:02:47] <myrkraverk> etteyafed, you mean the haiku build system? I don't want to build an os, to test an app ;)
[07:03:08] <JonathanThompson> Well, you could probably run BeShare within Haiku, and send it to yourself that way :)
[07:03:13] <JonathanThompson> Or perhaps email the binary...
[07:03:31] <etteyafed> How well does it do on stuff like laptops out of the box. Well you could put your app on an iso and use that as the cdrom but think haiku can use ssh.
[07:03:34] <etteyafed> and wget
[07:03:38] <JonathanThompson> (I've not verified BeShare works myself: I have an old copy of Haiku)
[07:03:41] <etteyafed> for sure wget
[07:04:16] <myrkraverk> ok, my haiku has wget, but aparently not ssh ;)
[07:04:44] <etteyafed> well i was guessing on ssh but it might work if draged from beos
[07:04:51] <myrkraverk> etteyafed, for me, it works out of the box -- there are issues with network drivers and power though (no sleep)
[07:04:52] * JonathanThompson suddenly realizes BeShare might not work due to the minor issue that if he already had BeShare, he'd likely already have his app on it
[07:05:09] <myrkraverk> JonathanThompson, haha ;)
[07:05:30] <JonathanThompson> Those darn mental short circuits often have shocking results :P
[07:06:07] <etteyafed> Ok, i have am intel ipw3945 the intem centrino abg card
[07:06:09] <JonathanThompson> etteyafed, have you tried the mail daemon/BeMail in Haiku?
[07:06:13] <etteyafed> intel*
[07:07:13] <JonathanThompson> Of course, until very recently, Haiku had a high probability of dying from the process of unzipping a large file :)
[07:07:37] <JonathanThompson> AKA "The Luposian Bug" named after the user that has complained about it the most.
[07:07:44] <etteyafed> JonathanThompson: nope. i don't like to bother with email apps outside of my regular program because i use gmail and archive my mail, so when i dload mail for the first time i get a couple hundred megs of mail
[07:07:55] <myrkraverk> etteyafed, I don't know those for sure -- I only know it looks like I'll have to wait for myself to port the bge driver from freebsd (for the cable nic)
[07:07:59] <JonathanThompson> Hate it when that happens, etteyafed :)
[07:09:02] <etteyafed> It is really handy really because if i lose my local copies gmail has them
[07:09:03] <myrkraverk> I haven't tested, but there is a chance my intel wlan nic will work now though
[07:09:23] <etteyafed> I take it you don't use a wifi router
[07:09:31] <myrkraverk> no ;)
[07:09:55] <etteyafed> they are the thing to have with a laptop
[07:10:06] <etteyafed> can't live without mine
[07:10:11] <myrkraverk> ;)
[07:10:20] <myrkraverk> I'm old school, I like wires ;)
[07:11:12] <JonathanThompson> I live in a fairly dense apartment building with an unknown number of computer geeks/wireless users, so... it's likely best I use wires for security and avoiding collisions.
[07:11:23] <etteyafed> A little faster, but it is no big deal unless you are moving huge files around all the time
[07:11:32] <JonathanThompson> That, and I don't have a system currently with a working wireless setup :P
[07:11:51] <myrkraverk> or real time video (like X)
[07:12:45] <JonathanThompson> If I couldn't find at least half a dozen wireless routers in range of my apartment, I'm certain the reason that would be is because this place is built quite like a fort, and has a lot of metal framing in the walls.
[07:12:46] <etteyafed> JonathanThompson: You can use encrypted/mac verification + B not G for dense area use
[07:13:29] <JonathanThompson> I'd have a hard time finding a building more likely to survive a major earthquake in than this one.
[07:13:31] <etteyafed> myrkraverk: I use XDMCP at home with multiple comps (vnc more so though) and it works great
[07:14:08] <myrkraverk> ;)
[07:14:25] <etteyafed> I want a missile silo
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[07:16:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Sikosis
[07:16:17] <JonathanThompson> Sikosis is in the house of pain!
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[07:28:57] <Sikosis> and the house of pain is in effect !
[07:29:51] <Sikosis> and anyone that steps up is gettin' wrecked
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[07:36:16] <AlienSoldier> as long as nobody walk on 5 leg
[07:51:13] <JonathanThompson> If they do, we'll file 4 and call them Peg!
[07:51:41] <etteyafed> could be an insect missing one already
[07:51:56] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps that insect's name would be Freddy
[07:52:09] <etteyafed> his brother is Alex
[07:52:37] <JonathanThompson> Trebeck is an insect:? Who would have thought?
[07:52:52] * etteyafed slaps JonathanThompson with a wet noodle
[07:53:07] * JonathanThompson slurps off the wetness, hoping sincerely it's tomato sauce
[07:53:37] <etteyafed> There are now three mongeese is here. I fed them today. They need names
[07:53:59] <JonathanThompson> Yacko, Wacko, and Dot.
[07:54:10] <etteyafed> Taken taken and taken
[07:54:13] <etteyafed> together
[07:54:23] <JonathanThompson> So, they're all taken with each other...
[07:54:48] <etteyafed> lol. MAYbe they are good really.
[07:54:59] * JonathanThompson dubs them the imaginative "Mongoose 1 of 3, Mongoose 2 of 3, and Mongoose 3 of 3"
[07:55:22] <etteyafed> Its final. Wako Yako and Dot it is
[07:55:25] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps they're Borg-goose :)
[07:56:07] <etteyafed> They seem real enough to me. At least they don't have nicks
[07:56:30] <etteyafed> you watch uot i may get them nicks
[07:56:31] <JonathanThompson> Hey, at one time I had a pair of lttermate cats I named Squishy and Stretchy.
[07:57:09] <etteyafed> how about pinky and the brain
[07:57:15] <etteyafed> funny cat names
[07:57:28] <JonathanThompson> Well, these cats were a bit on the insane side.
[07:57:57] <JonathanThompson> I don't know if I would have prevented their sinking into the territorial war inside the house if I'd had them neutered or not.
[07:58:18] <JonathanThompson> Ever see the cartoons where they show cats fighting in a whirl, with fur flying several feet in the air?
[07:58:29] <etteyafed> We want 2 cats, but can't have them.
[07:58:36] <JonathanThompson> Until I had those two, I thought that was purely a fictional exaggeration.
[07:59:14] <JonathanThompson> These cats were drawing blood from each other, and then, paradoxically, once they were all tired out, they'd sleep together.
[07:59:14] <etteyafed> Yeah. My cat used to do that when i lived at home. It is pretty awefull in real life
[07:59:44] <JonathanThompson> They also tore up the house, and I was as likely as anything else to become part of their path, with claws out for traction.
[08:00:06] <etteyafed> life long kittens?
[08:00:12] <JonathanThompson> They'd go out of their way to sharpen claws on the nice woodwork, despite the scratching post, crap all over, etc.
[08:01:03] <etteyafed> Cats are tough to train, but it can be done. I put a nasty substance on the wood that makes mine not want to scratch it.
[08:01:30] <JonathanThompson> The last straw was the Saturday I went to see my Dad for the last time, I left them plenty of cat food and water, and when I got back, I found they'd been fighting on the kitchen counter again, and apparently one of them had been backed into the cold water faucet handle, and there was a steady stream running when I came back.  If I'd had that sink stopped off, I'd have had a flooded house.
[08:02:20] <JonathanThompson> I learned at a later date that their mother had gone insane.  I got the cats from my cousin and his wife.
[08:02:52] <JonathanThompson> I ended up taking those two to the humane society, where no doubt it was an odd predicament for them to find themselves stuck in the same small cage together.
[08:04:13] <etteyafed> and knocking things over is rewarded with a flyswatter spray bottle or time out in the empty closet for 20min. When he is alone though he knows he can do whatever he wants and get away with it. It is too bad when you need to get rid of them like that. I tend to lock mine in a large room if i need to be gone for more than a day
[08:04:50] <JonathanThompson> I think they might have been nuts enough that they'd kill each other.
[08:05:37] <etteyafed> Two males?
[08:05:40] <JonathanThompson> Yes.
[08:05:51] <etteyafed> That is not usually a great idea anyway
[08:06:52] <JonathanThompson> One way or another, I don't think their behavior/etc. would have led to them both living a long life together.
[08:08:11] <JonathanThompson> The thing is, a lot of people probably aren't aware that neutering cats doesn't do anything for their territorial issues.
[08:23:44] <etteyafed> nor their desire to hump things
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[08:24:08] <CherryCola> Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of etteyafed)
[08:24:21] <etteyafed> CherryCola: BBitmap?
[08:24:26] <etteyafed> CherryCola: +BBitmap?
[08:24:27] <CherryCola> A BBitmap describes a rectangular image as a two-dimensional array of pixel data (or bitmap). The BBitmap class lets you create a bitmap by specifying raw pixel data (through the Bits() and SetBits() functions), or you can add a BView to your BBitmap and use the view's drawing operations (FillRect(), StrokeLine(), etc) ...
[08:24:45] <etteyafed> CherryCola: +BBitmap derived?
[08:25:05] <brlcad> you don't/shouldn't add the prefix char if you reference the bot by name
[08:25:12] <brlcad> you were just impatient :)
[08:25:52] <etteyafed> no it wont spit out that much text unless i force it with +
[08:26:03] <etteyafed> it tells me in privete
[08:26:08] <etteyafed> ate*
[08:26:27] <etteyafed> I set the max fact length to 4096 i thought...
[08:26:34] <brlcad> ah, funkiness
[08:27:18] * brlcad thinks etteyafed should just add the factoids to ibot's database and have her join
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[08:28:17] <etteyafed> Well... I want it to noe know about everything and i will mug up the keys with Haiku/BeOS data
[08:28:26] <etteyafed> not*
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[08:30:48] <brlcad> hey, your bot, your time .. whatever .. just seems like a waste when the other one is already set up, configured in a manner that is the least annoying, filled with useful data, etc
[08:31:06] <brlcad> it would already be useful *without* any haiku/beos data in it
[08:32:06] <brlcad> I can say easily that for BZFlag, we get just about as much (actually productive) use out of ibot .. probably even more so than from CIA, which I think is essential
[08:33:01] <etteyafed> yeah but its purpose is as a Haiku/BeOS API reference
[08:33:23] <brlcad> you could still add all of that, I doubt anyone would mind
[08:33:32] <brlcad> then you get the best of both data sets
[08:34:08] <brlcad> and people that cross-populate channels don't have to figure out "okay, which data set is this bot using.."
[08:34:12] <etteyafed> Well like I said there will be alot of data that has vague keys
[08:34:15] <brlcad> just makes it so self-defeating
[08:34:39] <etteyafed> and there is no point in making it harder to use just to make the keys unique
[08:34:47] <etteyafed> like this...
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[08:35:05] <CherryCola> Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of etteyafed)
[08:35:21] <etteyafed> CherryCola: interface classes
[08:35:25] <etteyafed> CherryCola: interface classes?
[08:35:34] <etteyafed> well you get the idea
[08:35:55] <etteyafed> i keep forgetting the +
[08:36:15] <etteyafed> CherryCola: +interface classes?
[08:36:16] <CherryCola> interface classes are BBitmap BFont BPoint BPolygon BRect BRegion BShape BShapeIterator BBitmap BFont BPoint BPolygon BRect BRegion BShape BShapeIterator BScreen BWindow BAlert BPrintJob BPicture BShelf BTab BListItem BStringItem BMenuItem BView BBox BControl BButton BPictureButton BCheckBox BColorControl BTextControlBRadioButton BSlider BDragger BListView ...
[08:36:37] <etteyafed> and the key size IS big enough but not showing it al
[08:37:14] <brlcad> which is just you figuring out the usable limits of the bot that work with the network :)
[08:37:50] <etteyafed> But why won't it show it all. it is not that much more really.
[08:38:06] <etteyafed> The size is set to 4096
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[08:38:33] <brlcad> anyways, just my 2c .. pretty weak reasoning just to have generic key names since they're by the nature of being generic kinda not memorable or misleading to what the user might have actually wanted
[08:39:20] <etteyafed> well i mean what would i do? prefix everything generic with bbeos or haiku?
[08:39:26] <etteyafed> that is silly
[08:40:28] <etteyafed> and what if i want it somewhere that wont want to be logged?>
[08:40:35] <brlcad> well the entire api is prefixed for that same reason, those are already unique and probably by far the most interesting/usefull to comment, the categories not so much
[08:40:57] <brlcad> heh, well that's an easy one -- you're already talking on irc
[08:41:11] <brlcad> as others have been told in the past, you're talking public .. "get over it"
[08:41:46] <etteyafed> besides if i am going to put alot of work into this i would like to keep the data myself so i know that it wont be lost. yes i dont care about loggine but some places do
[08:41:47] <brlcad> it is already logged by probably half the people on the channel 24/7, some undoubtedly posting
[08:42:50] <brlcad> I know I have pretty much every single irc message I've ever received archived
[08:43:11] <etteyafed> i might also actually
[08:44:36] <brlcad> your reasoning just (imho) amounts to a lot of 'nih' ownership whining when there's clearly room to collaborate and make something existing better, something with a dataset that's probably already more than useful to the channel
[08:45:06] <brlcad> or in this case, nsbm/nrbm
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[08:48:39] <etteyafed> Well i will think on it and discuss the idea with tim riker
[08:48:50] <Begasus> morning peeps
[08:51:49] <brlcad> whatever floats your boat, just (strongly) suggested that collaboration and a unified database is ultimately in everyone's best interests -- I highly doubt Tim will care one way or the other how/if you use it :-)
[08:52:37] <etteyafed> i just want to tell him what i am doing and see if he thinks that it would be better in the main sb
[08:52:40] <etteyafed> db
[08:52:59] <etteyafed> hey. the bots are good for IRC answering machines too
[08:53:00] <brlcad> it's in almost 150 channels because it's set up to function very well, has a great factoid database, is low maintenance for the channels, and it's annoying
[08:53:06] <brlcad> s/it's/isn't/ heh
[08:53:23] <etteyafed> yeah i like that one also
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[08:53:42] <etteyafed> ~hello
[08:53:43] <CherryCola> well, hello is a greeting.
[08:53:56] <etteyafed> for example
[08:54:12] <brlcad> ~no, hello is <reply>Howdy Bub!
[08:54:16] <etteyafed> ~message brlcad is hey do that thing that i said to do
[08:55:02] <etteyafed> i made it do that
[08:55:07] <etteyafed> watch
[08:55:12] <etteyafed> CherryCola: hello
[08:55:13] <CherryCola> que tal
[08:55:28] <brlcad> utterly amazing
[08:55:34] <etteyafed> smartass
[08:55:40] <brlcad> hey, i'm just saying :)
[08:56:06] <etteyafed> i was just messing around and kept it that way.
[08:56:36] <brlcad> you're messing around now, that stuff gets old *really* fast
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[08:58:11] <etteyafed> well maybe, but in short address mode do you really care if it responds to hello with another hello?
[08:58:47] <etteyafed> and if you say "hello?" you are askimg a question. what then?
[08:59:40] <brlcad> in the long run, nobody really gives a sh!t .. it's a bot and that's not a useful interaction
[08:59:48] <brlcad> getting info out of it is
[09:00:27] <brlcad> having a factoid for various common svn checkouts, answers to common questions
[09:00:29] <etteyafed> my feelings exactly
[09:00:51] <etteyafed> and links of all sorts are good also
[09:02:46] <JonathanThompson> CherryCola: etteyafed
[09:02:57] <JonathanThompson> CherryCola: +etteyafed
[09:03:00] <JonathanThompson> CherryCola:  +etteyafed
[09:03:11] <JonathanThompson> :)
[09:03:21] <JonathanThompson> CherryCola: +BApplication
[09:03:47] <JonathanThompson> CherryCola: BApplication
[09:03:49] <brlcad> that's also all just the reasoning for having *any* bot; the question is having a relatively empty database or one that is huge and is already fairly properly configured .. tradeoffs to both
[09:03:53] <JonathanThompson> CherryCola:  BApplication
[09:04:17] <JonathanThompson> CherryCola:  Bbitmap
[09:04:18] <brlcad> the spaces don't matter, he's got it configured weird
[09:04:45] <JonathanThompson> I see BApplication isn't in the factoids yet.
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[09:05:48] <JonathanThompson> Hey etteyafed, I'd suggest having it setup to accept incoming private conversations and responding to such.
[09:06:01] <etteyafed> JonathanThompson: no working in the interface kit
[09:06:20] <etteyafed> it will talk to you in private
[09:06:53] <etteyafed> i am not in the factoids either. yet
[09:07:37] <JonathanThompson> It's not responding when I send it private messages, etteyafed.
[09:07:41] <etteyafed> JonathanThompson: I don't really have much in it yet. i am not tearing it up
[09:07:50] <etteyafed> with /msg?
[09:07:55] <etteyafed> hmmm.
[09:07:59] <JonathanThompson> I've got a private msg window, and it's not responding.
[09:08:04] <brlcad> etteyafed: curious, have you actually ever lived in a channel that has had a useful interactive bot?  (just wondering)
[09:08:05] <etteyafed> is it sending you messages?
[09:08:16] <JonathanThompson> Not when I send it messages in that window.
[09:08:21] <JonathanThompson> CherryCola: Bbitmap
[09:08:33] <etteyafed> does it respond to /mgs messages?
[09:08:46] <JonathanThompson> If I send messages from here in public, it responds in the private message window.
[09:08:59] <etteyafed> brlcad: not as a reg no
[09:09:12] <JonathanThompson> That worked, but it'd be nice if it'd accept stuff from a private window.
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[09:09:39] <etteyafed> so the /msg cherrycola mesage worked?
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[09:09:51] <JonathanThompson> Yes, as I said, but from a private window, it doesn't.
[09:09:54] <etteyafed> i will look into it maybe it is being picky
[09:10:34] <brlcad> then another good reason to go with a bot that is already set up properly -- it only takes one mistake in the config to really make the channel regulars outright *hate* having a bot present, ibot is long past that point
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[09:11:39] <brlcad> though that also explains your "hesitation" too.. you really don't know what you're missing in that massive existing database
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[09:12:18] <CherryCola> Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of etteyafed)
[09:12:29] <JonathanThompson> CherryCola: die
[09:12:34] <brlcad> see, that's one point -- greetins are f'ing annoying :)
[09:12:36] <etteyafed> what now jt?
[09:12:42] <JonathanThompson> :P
[09:13:17] <etteyafed> it only does that when i tell it to join
[09:13:21] <brlcad> so?
[09:13:27] <etteyafed> there is no config option for that
[09:13:28] <brlcad> it's f'ing annoying
[09:13:49] <etteyafed> if it autojoins that wont happen
[09:14:09] <etteyafed> and i can start to play with the code if i must
[09:14:42] <brlcad> whatever suits you, have fun with it or not
[09:15:10] <JonathanThompson> brlcad: do or do not, there is no try :)
[09:15:18] <etteyafed> well it is just blootbot and will act like any other blootbot with the same config
[09:16:27] <JonathanThompson> etteyafed, you should hand brlcad one of the mongeese :)
[09:16:29] <brlcad> dude, you really just don't get it, and continue to not get it, so you don't need to keep defending
[09:16:55] <brlcad> personally, I think it's doomed to failure already just from how you're going about things, but what do I know..
[09:17:09] <brlcad> :)
[09:17:37] * brlcad wanders off to do something productive
[09:17:55] <etteyafed> I don't see how i can fail. I am only trying to put data into a db through some software.
[09:18:13] <JonathanThompson> If you try hard enough, you can fail at that, etteyafed :P
[09:18:14] <etteyafed> don't care so much brlcad, i don't
[09:18:56] * JonathanThompson wonders if people ever try to be a failure, and fail miserably
[09:19:52] <etteyafed> I am sure it happens. Everything does.
[09:20:20] <JonathanThompson> Well, there's one fictional book I read as a teenager that was such a case: "The Mouse that Roared"
[09:20:28] <etteyafed> I just like to play with my toys. A positive result is a bonus.
[09:21:02] <etteyafed> I can't imagine how mush good source I have lost or deleated because i just got bored with it.
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[09:21:46] <etteyafed> I once wrote an entire GUI ToolKit in QBasic. That is gone, has been for years.
[09:24:13] <JonathanThompson> I *think* it was this book, but there are apparently several with the same title by different authors throughout the decades: http://www.amazon.com/Mouse-That-Roared-Christopher-Sergel/dp/B000HTHCFK/ref=sr_1_15/102-1111089-3432101?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192432859&sr=8-15
[09:24:29] <brlcad> when your goal is inconsequential, sure it's easy to not fail;  for me, I see the need as that of having a usable bot for this channel that people actually gain a benefit from using
[09:24:56] <JonathanThompson> Well, you're definitely one to encourage, brlcad, and I mean that in the most sarcastic of ways :)
[09:25:18] <brlcad> so ending up with a bot that is loaded with some information might be a neat exercise, but a truely pointless goal in itself; it being a usable and useful bot in the long term is a more interesting goal
[09:25:52] <brlcad> JonathanThompson: I know, I shouldn't feed the fire, but I'm procrastinating on something else
[09:25:56] <JonathanThompson> How many things of worth start out fulfilling all the intended goals on the first mutation, brlcad?
[09:26:02] <etteyafed> Well you do that, and i will do this ;)
[09:27:03] <brlcad> JonathanThompson: most of the things I work on actually :)
[09:27:12] * JonathanThompson sniggers
[09:27:55] <etteyafed> brlcad: really i never said i wasnt going to take your suggestion, i just said that i would like to ask timriker about it first.
[09:27:58] <brlcad> admittedly, some of the timeframes are substantial iterations
[09:28:11] <brlcad> etteyafed: I know
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[09:28:37] <JonathanThompson> Well, clearly you're deliberately ignoring the existence of all the small steps along the way, brlcad.
[09:29:09] <JonathanThompson> Either that, or not doing anything of any real complexity for it to all come out fully formed on the first non-stop write.
[09:29:17] <brlcad> that could be said no matter what the step size is, there's always ways to break it down even further
[09:30:13] <brlcad> i'm generally referring to publicly visible accomplishments of notoriety, getting to your goals on the first iteration in a given timeframe
[09:30:19] <etteyafed> i have had a non-work coders block for quite a while now. it is really bothering me.
[09:30:54] <JonathanThompson> If a good stiff beating will help you get past that coder's block, we're willing to help :P
[09:31:57] <etteyafed> well i am not flying to washington for a beating so dont worry
[09:32:43] <JonathanThompson> Hey, AmTrak works well, too, just takes longer :)
[09:33:23] <etteyafed> a friend of mine is in seattle right now on work. A misc internet company he does perl stuff for.
[09:33:41] <JonathanThompson> Well, that narrows it down to perhaps over 1000 potential employers :P
[09:34:30] <brlcad> you're just a couple hour drive away from me
[09:34:45] <etteyafed> yeah i know. he never actually told me who it was and i never asked. so it could even be yahoo :)
[09:35:04] <JonathanThompson> Actually, not likely.
[09:35:05] <etteyafed> who me?
[09:35:17] <etteyafed> JonathanThompson: wy?
[09:35:18] <JonathanThompson> Yahoo! doesn't have that big of a presence there, and perl isn't a big thing (yet)
[09:35:48] <etteyafed> I think one of the main perl guys works for them
[09:35:48] <JonathanThompson> At least, not in the group I'm working in, and I know the people currently working.  When did he start?
[09:36:07] <etteyafed> About 6 months ago maybe a bit more
[09:36:25] <JonathanThompson> Nobody else started at that time that'd possibly be working with perl.
[09:37:35] <JonathanThompson> So no, they aren't working for this local Yahoo! office :)
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[09:54:44] <stargater> moin
[09:56:20] * JonathanThompson dials 70 chevrons for stargater
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[10:10:53] <stargater> :-)
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[10:30:02] <JBurton> hi all
[10:31:36] <Begasus> hi
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[10:35:58] <plfiorini> hi
[10:37:14] <Begasus> hi plfiorini
[10:44:45] <plfiorini> hello Begasus
[10:45:02] <plfiorini> does haiku support or will support socketpair() and other socket functions?
[10:45:30] <Begasus> don't know plfiorini ...
[10:45:47] <plfiorini> k
[10:46:07] <Begasus> maybe someone else? JBurton perhaps? ;)
[10:46:12] <JBurton> er no idea
[10:46:27] <JBurton> sorry
[10:46:28] <Begasus> couldn't hurt to try ;)
[10:46:39] <plfiorini> already tried, perl bails out
[10:47:06] <Begasus> is there a libsocket around in Haiku?
[10:47:13] <JBurton> yeah
[10:47:28] <JBurton> although it's a symlink to libnetwork
[10:47:51] <plfiorini> so it's a matter of grep -r socketpair /boot/develop/headers
[10:47:54] <JBurton> plfiorini did you use the haiku headers or the r5 devtools one ?
[10:48:20] <plfiorini> JBurton: i did a little search without success but it was too late, need to investigate much
[10:49:35] <plfiorini> the true question was "will the haiku r1 netstack bone-alike or even better, so a lot of programs can be ported?"
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[10:51:36] <JBurton> indeed
[10:51:46] <JBurton> the netstack IS already bone/bsd/alike
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[10:56:06] <JBurton> plfiorini http://haiku.it.su.se:8180/source/xref/src/kits/network/socket.cpp
[10:56:21] <JBurton> looks like it is supported
[11:04:26] <stargater> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y4Sm3b1NLo&mode=related&search=linux%20qtopia%20movie%20pxa320
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[11:15:00] <stargater> wow = http://zedomax.com/blog/2007/10/12/human-lcd-in-korea-by-high-school-students/
[11:22:13] <plfiorini> JBurton: ok so it's a matter of path in CFLAGS
[11:22:38] <plfiorini> thanks
[11:25:11] <Begasus> someone should add pkg-config imo ...
[11:25:40] <Begasus> using PKG_CONFIG_PATH= should get rid of some of those probs ...
[11:26:26] <Begasus> biab
[11:34:36] <JBurton> plfiorini np
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[12:07:47] <Begasus> re
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[12:55:35] <MrSunshine> JBurton, you ten ? .. you wera a dev? :P
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[13:09:48] <MrSunshine> GetBitmap(bitmap, false, GetWindow("SomeWindow")->Bounds(); ? :) .. but then if its inactive it will be behind some application :/
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[13:20:06] <MrSunshine> i do not get it, where is the actual drawing done? :)
[13:20:20] <MrSunshine> fLink->StartMessage(B_FILL_RECT); or something like that? .. what is fLink ? :)
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[13:25:15] <MrSunshine> gah there has to be a way to force a render to a bitmap!
[13:26:34] <JBurton> re
[13:27:33] <MrSunshine> Rendering a window (even if hidden) to a bitmap ... any way to do this? :(
[13:35:14] <JBurton> hmmm
[13:35:14] <JBurton> no
[13:35:29] <JBurton> you can only grab a part of the screen
[13:35:35] <JBurton> OR
[13:35:49] <JBurton> you can render the content of a view to a BPicture
[13:36:29] <JBurton> brb
[13:36:47] <MrSunshine> JBurton, humm, so you mean i get the window, then the main view of that and make that draw after i start a BPicture ?
[13:38:56] <MrSunshine> Only drawing that the BView does is recorded; drawing done by children and other views attached to the window is ignored, as is everything except drawing code.
[13:38:58] <MrSunshine> :(
[13:45:49] <JBurton> yeah
[13:45:52] <JBurton> that's the problem
[13:46:06] <JBurton> hmmm what is the problem you're after ?
[13:46:12] <JBurton> I mean what you are trying to achieve ?
[13:47:35] <MrSunshine> lets say i want to take print screens of windows by name insted of the one that is foremost ... so even if its hidden or behind another window i want to be able to get the full picture of the window to a buffer :)
[13:48:07] <JBurton> it's really not possible
[13:48:28] <JBurton> unless the app in question is your own app, of course
[13:48:35] <MrSunshine> would be cool with a BWindow::SetRenderTarget() .. if its NULL it renders to screen, if its not it renders to a buffer :)
[13:48:36] <JBurton> then you can make it draw everything to an offscreen bitmap
[13:48:59] <MrSunshine> JBurton, well i can get the view of another window cant i? :)
[13:49:00] <JBurton> before drawing to the view/window
[13:49:03] <MrSunshine> or is that imposible also ?
[13:49:12] <JBurton> you can
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[13:59:27] <MrSunshine> humm, the acceleranthwinterface does that only create a buffer for the whole screen also? .. or is that on a per window basis ?`
[13:59:37] <JBurton> whole screen
[14:00:09] <MrSunshine> k
[14:00:10] <JBurton> and, actually.. it only creates an extra buffer in case of video depth != 32 bit
[14:00:25] <JBurton> since in the other case (and in any case, on beos) it renders directly to the frame buffer
[14:00:34] <MrSunshine> trying to figure out the rendering pipe here but not going to well :)
[14:07:58] <JBurton> oh btw
[14:08:15] <JBurton> a hidden window doesn't draw on its child views
[14:08:22] <JBurton> unless you call Draw() on the views directly
[14:08:33] <JBurton> so, you see it's hard to achieve what you need
[14:09:07] <MrSunshine> but if i get the BView, root view of a window, then loop throught all its children and call View::AppendPicture(myPic); ? :)
[14:09:14] <MrSunshine> and then draw that view, then next
[14:09:17] <MrSunshine> kinda slow maybe? :)
[14:12:18] <JBurton> depends if you want it real time or not :P
[14:12:24] <JBurton> the printing system works like this
[14:12:44] <JBurton> check BPrintJob::DrawView()
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[14:18:08] <MrSunshine> and then i can use the BPicture and write that to another view if i want? :)
[14:18:52] <JBurton> yeah
[14:19:15] <MrSunshine> cool :)
[14:19:23] <MrSunshine> thanks, finaly a solution ... :)
[14:19:48] <MrSunshine> now how to get all the Windows :P
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[14:20:04] <MrSunshine> JBurton, and that should work even if the window is hidden right? :)
[14:20:09] <JBurton> BApplication::WindowAt()
[14:20:14] <MrSunshine> ahh :)
[14:20:17] <MrSunshine> you are an angel :P
[14:20:17] <JBurton> and CountWindows()
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[14:20:37] <JBurton> yeah should work for hidden windows too
[14:20:41] <JBurton> ahah
[14:20:53] <JBurton> now:
[14:21:02] <JBurton> remember to lock the windows before callign Draw() on the views
[14:21:20] <MrSunshine> yep :)
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[14:23:27] <MrSunshine> but problem is that that solution only works with the primitives :)
[14:24:01] <JBurton> which primitives ?
[14:24:12] <MrSunshine> in the views?
[14:24:21] <JBurton> erm... why is that ?
[14:24:22] <MrSunshine> BPicture only records the primitive drawing thingies right? :)
[14:24:30] <JBurton> are there other ways of drawing ?
[14:24:33] <MrSunshine> say an opengl window wont be fully rendered?
[14:24:43] <JBurton> openGL uses DrawBitmap(), usually
[14:24:47] <JBurton> unless it's direct drawing
[14:25:07] <MrSunshine> and DrawBitmap is also used by BPicture? :)
[14:25:21] <JBurton> yeah
[14:25:39] <MrSunshine> heh cool :)
[14:25:49] <MrSunshine> well we will see what this becomes when i get to a computer with beos then :)
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[14:32:12] <JBurton> hi DeadYak
[14:32:54] <DeadYak> hiya
[14:32:55] <MrSunshine> btw, is it posible to scale what is drawn ? :)
[14:33:23] <plfiorini> emitrax: if i run haiku with my real hw, keyboard and mouse are "freezed"
[14:33:23] <MrSunshine> SetScale maybe :P
[14:34:09] <plfiorini> emitrax: keyboard and mouse are a wireless logitech kit, the receiver has both ps/2 for the mouse and usb for the keyboard
[14:34:41] <plfiorini> emitrax: if you want i can do some tests for you to know if is a usb-related problem
[14:34:49] <JBurton> MrSunshine yeah
[14:34:52] <JBurton> setscale is okay
[14:35:49] <MrSunshine> so if i want the picture i take to be half the size i just set the sacle to 0.5 right? ... whatever its inside the BPicture i ahve to draw? :)
[14:35:55] <MrSunshine> and it will autoscale everything for me? :)
[14:40:58] <JBurton> you set the scale on the view you draw the BPIcture to
[14:41:03] <JBurton> and then you draw the BPicture
[14:41:07] <JBurton> and yes, it will scale everything
[14:41:27] <JBurton> once you have the BPicture, you can do anything with it
[14:41:30] <JBurton> draw it on a view
[14:41:35] <JBurton> draw it on an offscreen view
[14:41:38] <JBurton> save it to disk
[14:41:41] <JBurton> etc
[14:41:42] <JBurton> etc
[14:44:16] <JBurton> and if the destination view's scale is set to 0.5, it will of course draw everything it has recorded, half the size
[14:47:44] <JBurton> trying to do something like MacOSX/Compiz's live preview ?
[14:47:45] <JBurton> :P
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[15:34:20] <MrSunshine> JBurton, hehe :)
[15:34:30] <Begasus> ;)
[15:34:39] <MrSunshine> ye i think its a neat feature, and if its posible to make it fast enough ... might be a good feature for haiku ? :)
[15:34:56] <MrSunshine> ofc, one should be able to disable it if they dont want it
[15:35:43] <JBurton> I guess, although I won't count on making it fast enough :)
[15:35:56] <JBurton> AFAIK every existing implementation uses opengl, no ?
[15:36:01] <JBurton> or at least some form of HW acceleration
[15:36:08] <JBurton> without that, I guess it'll be slow
[15:36:09] <DeadYak> indeed
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[15:36:16] <MrSunshine> JBurton, well even still frame preview can be good ? :)
[15:36:20] <JBurton> yeh
[15:36:36] <JBurton> aawwwwwhhh
[15:36:44] <DeadYak> you'd probably have better luck doing that by just grabbing a bitmap and downscaling that
[15:37:02] <JBurton> I sent a CV to some company which was looking for a person in the IT department
[15:37:14] <JBurton> and now... I saw they updated their site, and they are looking for..... a VB programmer
[15:37:16] <JBurton> aaargh
[15:37:18] <MrSunshine> DeadYak, well thats what ive been asking ow to do for days .. but aparently imposible when the windows is hidden and not at the top (so you can just cut it out of the screen buffer)
[15:37:19] <DmitryM> Hello, everyone! I have a question: where can I found any deep information conserning Haiku internal structure?
[15:37:35] <MrSunshine> DmitryM, sources :P
[15:37:47] <JBurton> DmitryM were you looking for something in particular ?
[15:37:56] <DmitryM> :) So, there is no docs like in QNX?
[15:38:24] <JBurton> tried the articles on the website, DmitryM ?
[15:38:46] <DmitryM> The are not quite deep... they touch different aspects, non-centralized
[15:38:53] <JBurton> yeah indeed
[15:38:59] <MrSunshine> JBurton, ye it sucks that haiku isnt opengl accelerated ;)
[15:39:05] <JBurton> yep
[15:39:19] <DeadYak> MrSunshine: good luck doing it without driver support
[15:39:20] <MrSunshine> but like said before, isnt that just to make a new drawer that uses opengl ? :)
[15:39:21] <JBurton> well actually with the current app_server architecture, it wouldn't make much difference
[15:39:26] <MrSunshine> DeadYak, yep :/
[15:39:38] <JBurton> MrSunshine you can use openGL, but without HW acc it's not really great
[15:39:44] <JBurton> afaik skyos uses OpenGL in SW mode
[15:40:07] <DeadYak> enabling things to be properly scaled would be a bit more complicated, just an OGL backend won't give you that for free
[15:40:46] <JBurton> DmitryM but were you looking for something specific or... ?
[15:40:51] <MrSunshine> DeadYak, humm ?
[15:41:22] <DeadYak> MrSunshine: just slapping an OGL drawer onto the existing app_server isn't going to give you good scaling for free
[15:41:46] <JBurton> yeah that's what I meant
[15:42:20] <DeadYak> since without a drastically different way of drawing things all that's going to be able to do is render the window to a texture and then do bitmap scaling on that using the 3D HW
[15:42:28] <DeadYak> that's why Apple went with display postscript as well
[15:42:31] <JBurton> yep
[15:42:35] <DeadYak> since that's inherently scalable
[15:43:41] <DeadYak> especially if you want to be able to do things like what CoreAnimation allows
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[15:55:55] <DeadYak> mmu_man: any luck with m68k?
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[15:59:32] <mmu_man> not much
[15:59:45] <mmu_man> gcc doesn't build fully with target m68k-elf
[16:00:03] <mmu_man> I would have to add files to support m68k-haiku
[16:03:46] <DeadYak> going to?
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[16:13:17] <MrSunshine> i need a development environment :/
[16:13:25] <MrSunshine> stationary computer is 400km from here :P
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[16:15:45] * IcePic offered shells on a fbsd haiku-building machine on the haiku-dev list some weeks ago.
[16:16:14] <MrSunshine> IcePic, well its an actual beos app i want to try and make :)
[16:16:19] <MrSunshine> so i n eed to see how it looksies :)
[16:16:37] <IcePic> aw.
[16:16:39] <MrSunshine> and vmware player just reboots my beos image
[16:16:44] <IcePic> Can't please everyone. =)
[16:16:53] <MrSunshine> IcePic, nop :)
[16:17:14] <MrSunshine> and beos max hangs for some reason
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[16:22:37] <JBurton> anyone on beos/zeta right now ?
[16:23:28] <MrSunshine> i want to die
[16:25:40] <JBurton> why is that, MrSunshine ?
[16:26:30] <MrSunshine> im sick :)
[16:26:47] <MrSunshine> right when i meet my girlfriend after 3 weeks .. and i get sick :P
[16:26:59] <MrSunshine> and i want to go to the gym .. but cant cause im SICK
[16:28:23] <Begasus> here JBurton
[16:28:41] <Begasus> running Zeta at the pc
[16:29:22] <JBurton> Begasus can you test what happens if you: click on a menu, keep the button clicked, and move the mouse out of the window ?
[16:29:36] <JBurton> (without hovering with the mouse over the freshly opened menu window)
[16:29:49] <Begasus> Tracker window?
[16:29:56] <JBurton> yeah that will do
[16:31:15] <Begasus> sometimes the menu stays open and sometimes it closes back ...
[16:31:52] <JBurton> hmm okay... I'd guess it depends if you hover over the opened menu window, no ?
[16:32:40] <Begasus> no just clicked on the first menu item (for instance 'File') and then moved out of the Tracker window ..
[16:32:44] <JBurton> I mean, click on the menubar, keep the button clicked, move the mouse over the submenu, stay there for a while, then go out of the (main) window
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[16:32:49] <JBurton> this way it shouldn't clise
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[16:32:51] <JBurton> close
[16:33:08] <Begasus> booting to R5 ...
[16:33:18] <JBurton> if you just click on the menu bar, keep it pressed, and then leave the window (via upper border, for example) it should close
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[16:34:07] <Begasus> theat's what I meant by leaving the tracker window ...
[16:34:21] <Begasus> ah oh ... sec ;)
[16:35:04] <MrSunshine> JBurton, close the window ?
[16:35:19] <JBurton> hmmm maybe I can't explain correctly...
[16:35:20] <JBurton> anyway
[16:35:28] <JBurton> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/952
[16:35:29] <Begasus> it stays open as long as the mouse it's pressed ...
[16:35:33] <Begasus> is*
[16:35:50] <JBurton> in any case ? or only in the latter case ?
[16:35:53] <JBurton> Begasus
[16:36:26] <Begasus> clicking on a menu item .. going into submenu ... going out of the window ....
[16:36:40] <Begasus> as long as the mouse is pressed the menu stays ...
[16:37:57] <JBurton> ok, and without going into submenu ?
[16:38:37] <Begasus> same thing ....
[16:38:53] <JBurton> hmmm I see
[16:38:59] <Begasus> menu stays as long as the mouse is pressed ...
[16:39:05] <Begasus> this is in R5 ...
[16:39:05] <JBurton> but you said before that sometimes the menu closed, no ?
[16:39:15] <Begasus> that was in ZETA ...
[16:39:18] <JBurton> ah
[16:39:19] <JBurton> weird
[16:39:33] <Begasus> did some remodeling in the structure there I think ...
[16:39:38] <JBurton> I see
[16:39:57] <Begasus> rebooting to ZETA ..
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[16:40:31] <Begasus> there's a toolbar also in ZETA now ... so maybe that could be a thing also ...
[16:40:46] <JBurton> hmm I see
[16:40:49] <DeadYak> dano redid the menus quite drastically
[16:40:56] <DeadYak> the toolbars shouldn't have anything to do with it
[16:41:39] <Begasus> in ZETA it seems to loose focus sometimes when the mouse goes out of the window ...
[16:42:00] <Begasus> can't check on a BONE/dano system here ...
[16:42:13] <Begasus> don't have that setup anymore ;)
[16:42:19] <DeadYak> would have to be dano, BONE has the same UI code as R5 :)
[16:42:40] * Begasus pets DeadYak ... again ;)
[16:43:26] <Begasus> man .. just released tuxmath 1.5.5 and now we have 1.5.6 already ;))
[16:43:34] <Begasus> that's for tomorrow .. or later ...
[16:44:41] <MangoFusion> i'm waiting for 1.5.7
[16:44:49] <MangoFusion> :P
[16:46:41] <Begasus> hehe
[16:46:56] <MrSunshine> whats the diff in dano to bone ?
[16:46:59] <Begasus> well 1.5.6 has the help section ready so far ...
[16:47:11] <Begasus> still in dev but looking nice already ;)
[16:47:50] <DeadYak> MrSunshine: just about everything?
[16:47:59] <MrSunshine> well what is dano then ? :)
[16:48:13] <DeadYak> MrSunshine: BONE only changed the network stack and parts of the kernel, Dano reworked the UI, had a new app server and a ton of other stuff
[16:48:27] <DeadYak> Dano was the version of BeOS that Be never finished
[16:48:46] <MrSunshine> humm
[16:51:59] <Begasus> a shame they never did a 'real developers' edition ...
[16:52:11] <Begasus> with all included headers for the libs ..
[16:53:28] <Begasus> http://www.flickr.com/photos/begasus/1566954011/
[16:53:35] <Begasus> pup growing fast DeadYak  ;)
[16:55:10] <Begasus> going down here ...
[16:55:13] <Begasus> cya'll peeps
[16:55:17] <Begasus> take care! ;)
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[16:55:52] <wallone> hi
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[17:08:27] <brlcad> hello wallone
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[18:00:24] <mmu_man> hmm ubuntu sux...
[18:00:27] <mmu_man> or is it gnome ?
[18:00:34] <Thom_Holwerda> for some weird reason
[18:00:45] <Thom_Holwerda> my mac has gotten seriously slow the past few days
[18:01:05] <mmu_man> installed Vista with bootcamp ?? :P
[18:01:24] <Thom_Holwerda> on a cube? that's make headlines.
[18:01:28] <Thom_Holwerda> that'd*
[18:01:34] <Thom_Holwerda> coincidentally
[18:01:38] <Thom_Holwerda> i MAKE the headlines.
[18:01:41] <Thom_Holwerda> haha.
[18:02:28] <mmu_man> a little qemu... :P
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[18:02:49] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: hard disk issues maybe?
[18:03:08] <Thom_Holwerda> DeadYak: dunno, it's slower all-round, so that really could be it
[18:03:27] <Thom_Holwerda> there havent been any updates in the meantime, no other changes, nothing
[18:04:49] <wallone> apropos hard disk: anyone familiar with assembly and ata specification?
[18:05:33] <DeadYak> not I
[18:07:18] <dr_evil> wallone yes here
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[18:14:14] * wasosa__ is away: going home
[18:14:16] * wasosa__ is back (gone 00:00:01)
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[18:20:40] <wallone> i just implemented IDENTIFY_DEVICE into an application, but i run into trouble when i want to talk to an atapi device. my specific problem: i have a loop where i check for drq if the device has data for me or not (after i invoked the identify_device command). this is necessary for ata devices, but it never leaves the loop on atapi drives (infinite loop)...
[18:21:59] <dr_evil> wallone you need a different command for ATAPI, it's a 12 bye PACKET command
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[18:22:05] <wallone> i don't know how to invoke this command on atapi devices (i don't want to play with atapi packet feature set, because i just want to scan for harddrives)
[18:22:25] <dr_evil> simple, it's quite similar to the identify device comamnd
[18:22:55] <dr_evil> download d1410r3b-ATA-ATAPI-6.pdf
[18:24:06] <wallone> stop. probably you have a better idea: all i want is just to scan for drives, and if i found a hard disk, i want to check what feature sets are supportet (smart, security and so on...)
[18:24:15] <dr_evil> IDENTIFY PACKET DEVICE, opcode 0xa1
[18:25:56] <dr_evil> you can't use the normal IDENTIFY DEVICE for ATAPI, because (quoting)
[18:26:08] <dr_evil> In response to this command, devices that implement the PACKET Command feature set shall post command
[18:26:08] <dr_evil> aborted and place the PACKET Command feature set signature in the Command Block registers (see 9.12).
[18:28:26] <dr_evil> wallone ok?
[18:28:44] <wallone> brb
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[18:42:24] <dr_evil> wallone you could execute a soft reset by using SRST in the Device Control register, and then read the device signature from the task file to determine if a device is present and ATA or ATAPI
[18:43:22] <dr_evil> but if you need more information, you have to use IDENTIFY DEVICE for ATA and IDENTIFY PACKET DEVICE for ATAPI
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[19:06:38] <wallone> re
[19:06:41] <etteyafed> dr_evil: You just gave me an idea. My CDROM drive in my Proliant DL380 won't work with any 2.6 kernels due to IDE controller issues (errors, timeout, blah). I think that the 2.6 kernel is trying commands/protocol that that controller won't support. 2.4 works great
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[19:52:19] <MrSunshine> why cant i use }{ in vmware? :/
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[19:55:09] <DeadYak> wrong keymap?
[19:55:58] <MrSunshine> well cant find any that those keys works on :/
[19:56:38] <MrSunshine> or i did :P
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[20:23:30] <cizra> Haiku build script can't find makeinfo, although it exists )=
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[20:27:07] <cizra> (I didn't have it when I first ran configure)
[20:28:26] <cizra> The configure script stubbornly believes that makeinfo is missing )=
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[20:29:14] <MrSunshine> yey now i can develop beos apps on laptop also, thanks to vmware player being so god damn fast :)
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[20:35:34] <Judgen> anyone watches hockey ?
[20:35:58] <Judgen> i just saw a game from 1950'ish between red wings and toronto..
[20:36:01] <Judgen> fun stuff
[20:36:06] <cizra> Nope
[20:37:19] <Judgen> cizra:  any other sprots that are to your liking then?
[20:37:41] <cizra> Hmm.. Karate and marathon sleeping
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[20:38:53] <Judgen> karate.. hmm my sister once competed in karate
[20:39:00] <Judgen> shes a black belt...
[20:39:10] <Judgen> but she has quit some years ago
[20:39:58] * cizra is trying to get Haiku to compile
[20:40:07] <Judgen> im about 70kg heavier than me, she still beat me =)
[20:40:12] <cizra> 21:40 < Judgen> im about 70kg heavier than me, she still beat me =)
[20:40:13] <Judgen> she*
[20:40:20] <cizra> heh heh.
[20:40:28] <cizra> Weight is a disadvantage.
[20:40:42] <wallone> can she cook? ;)
[20:40:43] <Judgen> yeah im not exactly nible if you tkow what i mean =)
[20:40:54] <Judgen> wallone:  sure can
[20:40:58] <Judgen> and sing like a goddess
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[20:42:48] <Judgen> is there a 128k stream of beos-radio somewhere?
[20:44:26] <nielx> Judgen: are you trying to sell your sister or something?
[20:44:40] <Judgen> nielx:  nah she got a husband...
[20:44:49] <Judgen> just bragging =)
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[20:51:35] <Judgen> so doing anything fun?
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[20:57:00] <cizra> Reading up on logic programming
[20:58:36] <Judgen> ok
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[21:05:12] <ThomHolwerda> can tech sites please stop making headlines like this
[21:05:15] <ThomHolwerda> "App Server Vendor BEA Systems In Play, Rejects Oracle Offer"
[21:05:21] <ThomHolwerda> app server? BeIA?
[21:05:24] <ThomHolwerda> gruble.
[21:05:27] <ThomHolwerda> got me all confused :)
[21:05:56] <dr_evil> java?
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[21:08:29] <MrSunshine> ive careted a BApplication with a BWindow with a BView but if i change the color of the view nothing happends, why :P
[21:09:49] <dr_evil> call Invalidate()
[21:10:05] <dr_evil> and don't use :P
[21:11:16] <dr_evil> when asking questions :->
[21:13:37] <cizra> Hot damn, why does configure script think I have no makeinfo?
[21:17:49] <dr_evil> file a bug report at http://dev.haiku-os.org
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[22:10:53] <wallone> bye
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[22:13:35] <DaaT> nielx :)
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[22:13:52] <nielx> hello DaaT
[22:14:34] <DaaT> good job at t-dose
[22:14:35] <stargater> hi
[22:14:45] <DaaT> hi
[22:14:48] <nielx> thank you :-) Have you seen the video?
[22:15:07] <DaaT> nope, didn't work here, the streams page
[22:15:16] <nielx> good :-)
[22:15:18] <DaaT> lol
[22:15:21] <DaaT> that bad?
[22:15:22] <DaaT> :P
[22:15:43] <stargater> i like youtube.com orge google,,
[22:15:52] <Stamrogh> orgie?
[22:15:57] <DaaT> bbiab
[22:15:58] <nielx> I don't know, I usually don't watch myself
[22:17:34] <MrSunshine> humm the be_app->WindowAt() just returns the windows in my chain of command?=
[22:17:44] <DeadYak> yes.
[22:17:55] <MrSunshine> how can i get all other windows= :)
[22:17:57] <MrSunshine> :)
[22:18:31] <DeadYak> no direct way that I know of
[22:18:38] <DeadYak> except scripting
[22:19:11] <DeadYak> though that just lets you manipulate the remote window via whatever hooks the scripting infrastructure has exposed, not get a direct ptr to it
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[22:24:39] <MrSunshine> gah :/
[22:24:46] <MrSunshine> the tracker maybe can aid? :P
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[22:27:52] <MrSunshine> what happened to the other 198 ?=
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[22:29:36] <DaaT> all dead
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[22:32:56] <DeadYak> MrSunshine: Tracker has nothing to do with window management
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[22:42:10] <MrSunshine> atleast i can make a perfect copy of what i draw in the window now :)
[22:42:11] <MrSunshine> yeey :)
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[22:55:47] <stargater> MrSunshine: you can create a BList and put your window object in the list?
[22:56:05] <stargater> WindowCount() ?
[22:56:24] <MrSunshine> stargater, i want to be able to grab any window, like firefox ... or whatever
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[22:57:25] <plfiorini> hi
[22:57:34] <MrSunshine> and my tries so far locks whole beos
[22:57:37] <MrSunshine> blam .. nothing works :P
[22:57:46] <MrSunshine> i can replicate one view, but not more then one
[22:57:51] <stargater> why will you do this
[22:58:02] <MrSunshine> stargater, used vista latley? :)
[22:58:13] <MrSunshine> seen the neat little preview boxes when you hold over an item in the taskbar?
[22:58:17] <stargater> hmm oh my god :-)
[22:58:32] <MrSunshine> i love that feature, tho these would be stills of the window
[22:58:38] <MrSunshine> but still, neat little thing :)
[22:58:43] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: so you really wont to do it on haiku r1 :)
[22:58:52] <MrSunshine> plfiorini, i just want to do it :P
[22:59:04] <MrSunshine> but i suck to hard to do it :P
[22:59:05] <stargater> MrSunshine: write first a full 3d gfx driver
[22:59:32] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: hehe i guess app_server for r2 will have a composition manager and we all hope 3d drivers
[22:59:45] <stargater> MrSunshine: Inovations
[22:59:47] <MrSunshine> i didnt say i wanted to make a 3d interface :P
[22:59:58] <MrSunshine> i just want a small preview of the window when i hold over it in the tracker
[23:00:04] <MrSunshine> no need for 3d acceleration for that
[23:00:53] <MrSunshine> always when i start to toy around with the looper i get kicked in the balls tho :P
[23:01:53] <stargater> MrSunshine: you can look what deskbar do , ore better is you hack the switcher, he have alle open app
[23:05:15] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: vista (and even kde4) should do as much effects as your card is accelerated, even if we'll have a fully accelerated app_server for r2 i think some kind of "effects" (like preview) not accelerated and done as a hack can be useful
[23:05:55] <plfiorini> the gui acts the same but don't use stuff that needs full acceleration if your driver sucks
[23:05:57] <stargater> but is this inovation ?
[23:06:09] <plfiorini> absolutely not!
[23:06:36] <stargater> and is this what haiku is? fast. clear, simplycity
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[23:07:08] <plfiorini> some kind of stuff can be helpful
[23:07:18] <plfiorini> for example grey out inactive windows
[23:07:33] <plfiorini> i like stuff like this because makes the gui more readable
[23:07:50] <stargater> ok
[23:08:14] <stargater> zooming
[23:08:19] <plfiorini> some transparent windows, exposè, etc... are not bad
[23:08:36] <plfiorini> definitely not wobbly!!!
[23:09:01] <stargater> trasparent , hmm alpha blending
[23:10:04] <MrSunshine> stargater, eve rheard of options ?
[23:10:11] <MrSunshine> if you want simplicity just dont enable the damn option :)
[23:10:56] <stargater> :-)
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[23:12:25] <Ingenu_> night
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[23:12:43] <plfiorini> yeah!! my first custom built image with vision, gcc, wonderbrush in 200mb!!
[23:13:01] <stargater> gcc in haiku ?
[23:13:13] <plfiorini> gcc-2.95.3-beos-070218
[23:13:25] <plfiorini> i don't want to use haikuware because it's not updated every day
[23:13:26] <stargater> imga download url
[23:13:34] <stargater> image
[23:13:47] <plfiorini> wait let me check if it works
[23:13:52] <stargater> ok
[23:14:15] <plfiorini> anyway yesteredy i copiled perl but it stopped because couldn't find socketpair
[23:14:29] <plfiorini> gcc works at least in haikuware image
[23:14:52] <stargater> ok
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[23:16:14] <stargater> re
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[23:17:01] <plfiorini> stargater: vision and wonderbrush run (but that's easy, they were in the UserBuildConfig sample)
[23:17:18] <stargater> ok
[23:17:23] <stargater> Hi axeld
[23:17:43] <axeld> Hi stargater
[23:20:02] <plfiorini> stargater: gcc got unzipped, but i guess it needs a lot of symlinks etc...
[23:20:36] <plfiorini> hi axeld
[23:24:46] <axeld> hi plfiorini
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[23:35:05] <Judgen> how good is the vmware graphics driver for haiku?
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[23:35:48] <plfiorini> i don't notice problems
[23:36:33] <plfiorini> but when you resize windows you see what i call "linux gui effect" :)
[23:37:46] <stargater> reboot
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[23:37:55] <axeld> Judgen: apart from the problem that you don't have on-screen KDL anymore, it's supposed to work fine.
[23:38:16] <Judgen> nice
[23:39:23] <axeld> Judgen: but since Haiku isn't exactly stable yet, it's not included in the image on default for that reason
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[23:39:45] <Judgen> thats logical
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[23:40:37] <plfiorini> hi DaaT, kokito!
[23:40:52] <Judgen> axeld: ive forgotten why NewOS was chosen for kernel, could you reenlighten me.
[23:41:46] <kokito> hey plfiorini :)
[23:42:02] * kokito waves to axeld and DaaT
[23:42:05] * ThomHolwerda cheers, because DaaT is here
[23:42:14] <kokito> hi Thom_Holwerda
[23:42:18] <ThomHolwerda> hi kokito
[23:43:10] <axeld> Judgen: it has a very BeOS like design
[23:43:34] <axeld> Judgen: and it has a nice license :)
[23:43:39] <axeld> Hi kokito
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[23:44:48] <Judgen> ok
[23:45:37] <Judgen> axeld: how complete is the kernel at the moment?
[23:46:05] <axeld> Judgen: depends on what area you're looking on :-)
[23:46:38] <axeld> Judgen: but it's pretty complete, it might just not work correctly yet ;-)
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[23:46:55] <axeld> Judgen: what's really missing is swap file support
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[23:47:57] <Stargater> re
[23:48:18] <Judgen> btw anyone played the chess included in osx=
[23:48:19] <Judgen> ?
[23:49:48] <plfiorini> yes, but the last time was one year ago when i was flying back from amsterdam to home
[23:49:49] <Judgen> is it even possible to loose against the AI?
[23:50:15] <Judgen> it seems as stupid as a log
[23:50:39] <Judgen> it plays worse than an goldfish with alzheimers
[23:50:48] <plfiorini> ahahah
[23:51:06] <Judgen> i could probably beat it using only two horses

   October 15, 2007  
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