[00:00:09] <nielx> but the nightly build I have runs surprisingly well!
[00:00:28] <nielx> in VMware that is
[00:01:30] <stargater> ok, thats a problem :-) hehe no, Haiku is "pre" Alpha
[00:01:49] <stargater> but haiku goes day by day closer
[00:03:01] <pyCube> yeah.. so the new radiohead album is pretty not bad
[00:03:10] *** fanskap has quit IRC
[00:03:30] *** Styrbjorn has joined #haiku
[00:03:43] <stargater> haiku have some improvments = new icon format (Haiku vector ..) (its uses under 1k, wow, thx attribute resource), antialaising ...
[00:05:32] <stargater> haiku as desktop os , verry speedy, clean , technical good (one API for the system) ,,,
[00:07:09] <pyCube> one api?
[00:08:33] <stargater> BeAPI
[00:08:49] <pyCube> and thats a good thing for a desktop os?
[00:09:18] <stargater> this is good for developers
[00:09:31] <pyCube> why?
[00:10:28] <stargater> the API is a stuff from the os
[00:10:41] <pyCube> i knwo what the beapi is
[00:10:45] <stargater> one hands
[00:11:11] <pyCube> i am just thinking that for an app developer, they might be interested in bringing their app to as many platforms as possible
[00:11:26] <pyCube> wider audience/customer base
[00:13:01] <stargater> oh yes, many platforms = java , python
[00:13:22] <brlcad> heh
[00:13:37] <pyCube> so why then is the beapi so great for desktop os/app devs?
[00:13:44] <CIA-5> nielx * r22543 /haiku/trunk/docs/user/support/Locker.dox: Correct typo. Fix bug #1548
[00:14:32] <nielx> pyCube: multithreading baked in
[00:14:35] <brlcad> Be's API is one of the best well-designed APIs for application development, clean consistent interfaces for the most part that encourage application developers to write applications that will operate smoothly on the OS
[00:14:53] <nielx> I enjoy the feel of the Qt API more though :-)
[00:14:56] <pyCube> brlcad: on ONE os
[00:15:07] <stargater> in beos the beapi it writen for the beos
[00:15:10] <pyCube> and says who, re: best/well design api?
[00:16:03] <brlcad> pyCube: yes, and?  there's nothing that prevents anyone from attempting to write portability libraries for other environments
[00:16:06] <nielx> brlcad: it's not entirely consistent, which I notice since I document it
[00:16:11] <stargater> pyCube:  the point is , beos have one API not 100
[00:16:14] <brlcad> also doesn't diminish the utility of the api
[00:16:32] <pyCube> stargater: i dont see how that is a good thing
[00:16:48] <pyCube> ..or a bad thing..
[00:16:49] <brlcad> nielx: nothing is *entirely* consistent .. but they did pretty darn good, particularly compared to most other major APIs
[00:17:23] <umccullough> nielx, you didn't show up in #t-dose ;)
[00:17:29] <nielx> ah, sorry!
[00:17:31] <nielx> :-)
[00:17:38] <stargater> bbl
[00:17:49] <umccullough> nielx, do you know if it will be recorded?
[00:17:52] <umccullough> in the morning
[00:17:55] <nielx> it will not
[00:17:59] <umccullough> bummer
[00:18:04] <nielx> unfortunately, only in the main room there's a camera
[00:18:29] *** magnetron has quit IRC
[00:19:06] *** BePower has quit IRC
[00:19:14] *** C_Highlander has quit IRC
[00:19:21] <pyCube> i dunno.. from what I remember from back in the beos days.. the beapi makes cooperation with other not-beos things a real pain in the ass
[00:19:52] <umccullough> Ed__, the person here with the most knowledge about haiku/newos internals is geist
[00:20:02] <nielx> pyCube: yes, but so is pure windows programming
[00:20:06] <pyCube> and i just dont see "fuck you! i am the best, i am gonna go sit in my room by myself!" as a good quality for a dekstop os
[00:20:07] <nielx> or Cocoa programming
[00:20:37] <nielx> the difference between Haiku/BeOS and Windows apps which can be abstracted (see Qt or wxwidgets) , is that the haiku eventloop is fundamentally different
[00:20:42] <nielx> in that it's not really a loop
[00:21:01] <nielx> because of this fundamental difference, it requires a certain paradigm in the programs that are made for it
[00:21:08] <pyCube> the over-infatuation with threads is kinda dumb, imo
[00:21:32] <brlcad> then maybe the OS simply isn't for you :)
[00:21:40] <nielx> well, review your opinion
[00:21:53] <nielx> since the only way for processors to evolve is to increase the number of cores
[00:22:11] <umccullough> multithreading is certainly the future...
[00:22:17] <nielx> multithreaded applications automagically gain speed on that kind of hardware
[00:22:24] <pyCube> "the only..".. pretty narrow in scope there
[00:22:38] <brlcad> Be made the benefits of having a threading infrastructure from the ground up rather clear, things that you could do on the OS without applications have interactivity hiccups for example, excessive multimedia fluidity even when overloaded, etc
[00:23:56] <pyCube> and it couldnt do a lot of more important stuff
[00:24:11] <nielx> well, pyCube, let me add 'with current technology'
[00:24:18] <pyCube> had weird limits
[00:24:20] <nielx> plus, multicores seem to make sense too!
[00:24:55] <nielx> well, since geist once disclosed, the beos kernel wasn't advanced in any way
[00:25:25] <nielx> it imposed artificial limits because no one expected those limits to be crossed soon
[00:25:38] <nielx> and because no one knew what would happen if the limits were higher
[00:25:55] <nielx> they did not expect Be to die and leave behind a crippled OS
[00:26:52] <pyCube> sure
[00:26:57] <brlcad> they were also entirely under active development with only limited resources to focus on specific areas
[00:27:10] *** plfiorini_ has joined #haiku
[00:27:26] <pyCube> but everything people know about beos is via those hardcoded limits and smoke/mirros
[00:27:28] <pyCube> rs
[00:27:37] <pyCube> it was a demo
[00:27:46] <brlcad> so even seemingly 'simple' things like multiuser were shelved as a system limitation for the time being because in the big scheme of things, that wouldn't really make/break them
[00:27:57] <pyCube> designed to wow people with 30 mp3s playing at once
[00:27:58] <pyCube> hehehe
[00:28:24] *** procton has joined #haiku
[00:29:17] <nielx> yes, because it is a hobby OS!
[00:29:22] <pyCube> right
[00:29:49] * brlcad fails to see the point of pyCube's trolling
[00:30:02] <pyCube> uh
[00:30:03] <pyCube> eat shit
[00:30:13] <pyCube> i was asking questions about peopel assertions
[00:30:39] <pyCube> "beos is like, the best!!".. and i ask, "why?"
[00:30:57] <pyCube> i dont care if it is or isnt
[00:31:02] <brlcad> there's not a single question in the the last half hour from you other than that why there
[00:31:02] <pyCube> just curious
[00:31:29] <pyCube> ok
[00:31:37] <brlcad> just a lot of "I don't get it" and navel gazing comments
[00:31:43] <pyCube> uh huh
[00:33:15] <brlcad> beos was one of the very best at clean multithreading, seemless uninterrupted user interaction regardless of the task
[00:33:51] <brlcad> the "smoke/mirros" as you put it were just a gimmick, but they made a point .. one that you simply couldn't make with another OS at the time by a long shot
[00:34:19] <brlcad> that putting attention to multiprocessor and scheduler interactivity vertically through applications was a good thing, and that it worked
[00:34:51] <pyCube> what if the task is say, mounting a shared folder on a network.. or printing.. or browsing a modern web page?
[00:35:06] <brlcad> there wasn't enough time/resources/funding to do anything other than work on proving that the base was a solid framework
[00:35:24] <pyCube> and it was proved in a box in the late 90's
[00:35:25] <pyCube> fine
[00:35:30] <pyCube> i am all for that
[00:35:32] <pyCube> but
[00:35:41] <brlcad> but you want a polished/finished OS
[00:35:47] <pyCube> no
[00:35:48] <brlcad> well that takes lots of time and resources
[00:35:49] <pyCube> i dont want anything
[00:35:55] <pyCube> thats not at all what i am saying
[00:36:03] <brlcad> what are you saying then?
[00:36:28] <Hodapp> why have you the name of a CAD that was open-sourced by the government?
[00:36:41] <pyCube> i am questioning the logic of assuming that a point proved in a box in 1999 means that the ideas unboxed in the real world will still be as 'cclean' and 'fast' and all that
[00:37:53] <brlcad> ubiquitous car analogy, if I'm trying to build a new car that is being marketed as the "next best thing" in terms of performance and usability with 2000 MPG efficiency, I don't worry about things like the air conditioner or even the placement of the steering wheel until there's active backing support
[00:38:17] <brlcad> they never got that as a commercial company, but now have it reincarnated in the form of this open source community
[00:39:06] <brlcad> Hodapp: I'm the project lead
[00:39:14] <Hodapp> Cool
[00:39:36] <brlcad> lead developer, principle maintainer, whatever you want to call it
[00:39:37] <pyCube> i guess it just seems like people are really infatuated with all things be.. as if they could do no wrong.. BeWhatever is obviously and always the best whatever ever made
[00:39:53] <pyCube> so i just asked why the beapi was such a good thing for devs
[00:40:01] <brlcad> they did tons of things wrong, that's why it never took off commercially :)
[00:40:04] <Hodapp> pyCube: You'll get that with anything... Apple, Ford, Chevy, Coca-Cola, whatever.
[00:40:07] <pyCube> its alwasy assumed here.. so i asked
[00:40:30] * Hodapp conjures up images of captain redneck with his giant Ford pickup truck with a picture of Calvin pissing on a Chevy logo
[00:40:47] <pyCube> heh
[00:40:48] <umccullough> pyCube, give us zealots some piece ;)
[00:40:49] <brlcad> but just because they made lots of critically bad decisions as a company (both technically and strategic) doesn't mean that they also didn't do a lot of good things
[00:40:51] <umccullough> lol
[00:41:07] <pyCube> brlcad: right.. hence my question
[00:41:10] <pyCube> ing
[00:42:01] *** plfiorini has quit IRC
[00:42:10] <pyCube> beapi may very well be the best thing since sliced bread.. or not.. just wonder why people say it is
[00:42:11] <pyCube> etc
[00:42:36] <pyCube> i am hoping its more than knee-jerk zeal
[00:43:04] <brlcad> frankly, my perception of the beapi being "good" is due to the clear separation and provision of various system services, and a really clean event-driven infrastructure that encourages applications to be written in a manner that necessarily makes them be "good citizens" on the OS so that the system is *always* responsive
[00:43:37] <brlcad> the sorts of guarantees you simply cannot have with many of the other APIs due to their inherint design
[00:43:53] <kokito> nielx, don't sweat it :)
[00:44:55] <pyCube> brlcad: i remeber its really easy to make your code segfault in beos/beapi
[00:45:00] <pyCube> hehe
[00:45:21] <brlcad> some of them (like Cocoa, Java, Mono, etc) have picked up similar services since BeOS was first introduced, some have picked up some other nice clean coding aspects too (e.g. Qt), so there is overlap
[00:46:20] <brlcad> it was really easy only if you didn't understand threading issues -- it sort of required that understanding because it was necessary for the application to behave on the system level
[00:46:41] <brlcad> as well as some issues that simply weren't taken care of because it was incomplete
[00:47:31] <pyCube> brlcad: the impression i got from beos during the years i used it almost exclusively was that they had a lot of really great ideas.. clearly bettre than others at the time.. but great ideas and great implementation of said ideas are 2 different things
[00:48:06] <brlcad> quite agreed
[00:48:29] <brlcad> great implementation mostly boils down to polish, though .. stuff that just takes time and manpower
[00:48:34] <pyCube> which is why haiku as a reimplementation of beos r5 felt weird to me
[00:48:54] <brlcad> because the ideas were still great
[00:49:06] <brlcad> and the implementation while not complete was still pretty much a proof of concept
[00:49:09] <brlcad> that worked
[00:49:30] <pyCube> i understand
[00:50:34] *** urnenfeld has quit IRC
[00:50:37] <pyCube> its just that 'reimplement some old idea' doesnt seem very beosy.. heheh
[00:50:57] <brlcad> many of those "old ideas" are still great ideas
[00:51:04] <pyCube> sure
[00:51:05] *** NeoOokami has quit IRC
[00:51:08] <brlcad> a slew of them have since been picked up by other groups
[00:51:15] <pyCube> absolutely
[00:51:35] <brlcad> but not everything, some of them (like top-to-bottom multithreading) are problematic to do in other systems, but was some of the best aspects of the OS
[00:57:00] <pyCube> but, back to the original issue that i questioned.. to me, a good desktop os would be one thats easy to port things like qt and gtk to, as well as being sweet native wise
[00:57:12] <pyCube> one api, in that sense, seems like a bad thing
[00:58:06] <brlcad> and the question? :)
[00:58:37] <pyCube> it was: why is one api a good thing?
[00:59:10] <brlcad> if haiku becomes popular, I highly doubt there will be just one api
[00:59:33] <pyCube> if people would feel better, they could call the ports BeQt and BeGTK, etc
[00:59:34] <brlcad> gtk would likely eventually get ported, same for qt perhaps
[00:59:35] <pyCube> :-p
[01:00:24] <pyCube> i am sure they would
[01:00:29] <brlcad> but just as GTK works on Mac OS X, the Carbon and Cocoa frameworks are the ones that are presented by the operating system maker
[01:01:09] <pyCube> right
[01:02:11] <pyCube> well, i learned to code with the beapi.. and i'll be honest,  its not my favorite
[01:02:39] <pyCube> thats not to say its bad or anything..
[01:02:57] <brlcad> Apple could very well port Cocoa to Windows and Linux, for example, they even used to way back when (and undoubtedly still do which is what got them iTunes on Windows) -- but that's all pretty much very insignificant to do so, would take a significant amount of effort, and be a maintenance burden
[01:03:17] <pyCube> yeah
[01:03:24] <brlcad> they likewise could have supported GTK or Qt or something else as *the* OS, but it was determined to be inadequate to their needs
[01:03:32] <brlcad> haiku's not really any different
[01:03:36] <pyCube> i know
[01:03:56] <brlcad> they may be good toolkits, but they're inadequate to what they're trying to do, and outside the scope
[01:04:09] <pyCube> yep
[01:04:17] <geist> also DOODOO
[01:04:36] *** wildur has quit IRC
[01:04:37] <pyCube> i certainly wasnt suggesting haiku use qt or gtk as the native api
[01:04:49] <brlcad> and would be a maintenance burden, distracting from the real work that is needed _today_ .. i.e. work on the kernel, getting things fundamentally stable, making sure things work as they're already expected to work
[01:05:01] <pyCube> was just wondering why somebody said one api is best
[01:05:04] <brlcad> geist: hehe
[01:06:27] <brlcad> have already said what the benefits of that particular API are -- you certainly don't have to agree, but there it is -- for better or worse, it's still a better design than most of the existing non-proprietary alternatives
[01:08:57] <aldeck_> one api equals less docs, and i see the be api as the first layer to your hardware, you can "stack" any api over it, theres no limitation on the kind of software/api you can run over it (hi! btw)
[01:09:46] <brlcad> less docs, less complexity, easier to maintain, easier to build upon, easier to optimize, ..
[01:10:04] <pyCube> anyway.. this is way far away from what i thought i was responding to some minutes ago.. hehe
[01:10:25] <aldeck_> i leaned c++ on beos, and liked it a lot because i could use all the power of my machine with only on book
[01:10:40] <aldeck_> *learned
[01:11:14] *** frodobeg25 has quit IRC
[01:11:57] <aldeck_> i didn't mind what language or what system it was, i just wanted easy access to the machine's power, be it audio, video, computation
[01:17:48] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22544 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/storage/ (DiskSystemAddOnManager.cpp DiskSystemAddOnManager.h): Implemented loading/unloading of add-ons.
[01:22:33] <CIA-5> sbenedetto * r22545 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/busses/usb/ (uhci.cpp uhci.h uhci_rh.cpp):
[01:22:33] <CIA-5> * Fix some bugs introduced by myself ;)
[01:22:33] <CIA-5> * Removed IOC bit on last TD. To find out whether the TD removed is the
[01:22:33] <CIA-5> last one of a transfer it simply iterate through every transfer submitted. Not the best
[01:22:33] <CIA-5> solution, but should be ok for now. Improvements will be made when there will be some driver to test it with.
[01:22:36] <CIA-5> * Clean up
[01:22:49] *** frodobeg25 has joined #haiku
[01:26:05] *** franxico has joined #haiku
[01:41:20] *** kad77_work has joined #haiku
[01:41:25] <franxico> somebody say something :)
[01:41:32] <kad77_work> something
[01:41:37] <geist>
[01:41:44] <franxico> yeah France lost
[01:41:45] <kad77_work> :D
[01:41:49] <franxico> rugby
[01:41:52] <franxico> lol
[01:42:01] * JonathanThompson points to the technical problems encountered trying to port the HotSpot VM to BeOS and wonders, "How in hell are you supposed to port some types of things to BeOS that every other OS can do readily enough?"
[01:42:04] <franxico> welldone England
[01:42:07] * kad77_work is working on a PC in an Irish pub
[01:42:42] <kad77_work> JT: I don't think everything in BeOS was quite finished. :)
[01:42:54] <JonathanThompson> There are certain low-level things that other OS's have support for that BeOS doesn't at all, and I'm presuming it'll be added to Haiku, but... BeOS never had that great of memory management support.
[01:43:26] <JonathanThompson> I'm not convinced they even *thought* about the sort of thing I'm referring to, kad77_work :P
[01:43:27] <franxico> time to do one ;)
[01:43:48] <aldeck_> yep i remember mmap missing for example, but it's in haiku now iirc
[01:43:53] <kad77_work> Some of those could be addded during the R1 phase; I don't think they would be as likely to break anything legacy as they wouldn't be trying to use them?
[01:44:14] <JonathanThompson> Certainly, such things shouldn't break the current backwards compatibility.
[01:44:20] <franxico> yeah
[01:44:31] <JonathanThompson> And new applications using them, well, it's not like that's a *real* problem.
[01:44:51] <kad77_work> Features now open to sweat equity investment then
[01:44:54] <JonathanThompson> The applications that will use them couldn't be made (in a reasonable way) to work in BeOS anyway.
[01:45:41] <kad77_work> BeOS is dead anyway, anything ported to Haiku helps it along, etc
[01:45:54] <franxico> did you see that ?? http://norcal-hug.org/?q=image/gsoc-2007-haiku-mentor-appreciation-day/gsoc-2007-mentor-summit-stairs-marked
[01:46:00] * JonathanThompson whispers "Lock-in!" ftw
[01:46:09] <aldeck_> i think haiku is/will be a lot more standard than beos was. new netstack, more posix
[01:46:22] <franxico> we have people already to work until R14 !!!]
[01:46:23] <kad77_work> "Bribe-In"
[01:46:35] <franxico> everything is set :)
[01:47:01] <franxico> Haiku R14
[01:47:24] <JonathanThompson> Makes me think of the versioning numbers of CAD software :P
[01:47:44] <kad77_work> I wonder if devs are open to using "PR1" as in preview release for pre-R1 betas
[01:47:51] <kad77_work> BE used to do that, fwiw
[01:48:17] <aldeck_> wasn't it DR1 ?
[01:48:24] <kad77_work> er, maybe
[01:48:29] *** TheNerd has quit IRC
[01:48:30] <JonathanThompson> Yeah, DR1.
[01:48:33] <kad77_work> have to look at my CDs when I get home
[01:48:52] <kad77_work> last one I noticed was PR/DR1.5
[01:49:27] *** kennyjb402 has joined #haiku
[01:49:33] *** DaaT has quit IRC
[01:50:07] <kad77_work> although DR.71 could be ok. release snapshots all the way to R1, ala MAE. Should spot us a few more years <g>
[01:50:13] * franxico thinks that nobody understood his joke :P
[01:50:17] <kad77_work> *MAME
[01:51:03] <kad77_work> bad joke anyway. mame took a decade to hit 1.0, so it was in bad taste too
[01:51:25] * JonathanThompson wasn't paying attention at the time the joke was typed
[01:51:54] <JonathanThompson> There's Refraction, which IIRC had up to beta 9, and it seemed major portions of it were rewritten each time.
[01:52:13] <JonathanThompson> Rewritten/added.
[01:52:44] <kad77_work> Everyone does it their own way, but I would hope betas are feature freezes. major rewrites in beta seems like bad form
[01:52:59] <JonathanThompson> Well, that's Refraction's development history.
[01:53:26] <JonathanThompson> My response on reading the history as it went along was "WTF???  What's "beta" ssupposed to mean???"
[01:53:47] <kad77_work> "no tech support" -google
[01:54:23] <umccullough> beta usually means "feature complete, but buggy"
[01:54:47] <kad77_work> thats what I expect, mostly
[01:54:59] <JonathanThompson> Well, Refraction extended the meaning to mean "This is a major upgrade of bugs/features and new functionality added"
[01:55:16] <kad77_work> although google is light on bugs, I think they just don't wish to support some things :)
[01:55:17] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, i would guess that sometimes before something comes out of beta, the developers realize they f'd up :D
[01:55:23] <umccullough> and they start over ;)
[01:55:37] <JonathanThompson> Well, the number of times seemed amazing to me :)
[01:55:43] <umccullough> there are actually some legal implications as well...
[01:55:50] <umccullough> at least in the US IIRC
[01:56:03] <JonathanThompson> For google?
[01:56:08] <umccullough> it's a way to avoid any kind of warranty
[01:56:14] <kad77_work> right
[01:56:33] <umccullough> and also avoids certain licensing issues perhaps
[01:56:54] <umccullough> i've read somewhere that use of GPL'd code in a "closed beta" doesn't require releasing of the code
[01:57:12] <umccullough> not sure if that holds in court
[01:57:13] <franxico> if programming = introduce bugs in a software, beta exists to fix them :)
[01:58:36] <JonathanThompson> Well, Refraction extended beta=add completely new stuff, rewrite whole sections of old stuff, rinse, repeat until satisfied :)
[01:58:51] <umccullough> it happens i guess...
[01:59:06] <umccullough> there are a lot of OSS projects that take years to reach 1.0 ;)
[01:59:41] <[Katisu]> speaking of court, need to follow the patent suit against linux
[01:59:53] *** oco2 has quit IRC
[02:00:00] <[Katisu]> apparently a patent on workspaces
[02:00:11] <JonathanThompson> I love how all the paranoid people are saying Microsoft is behind it.
[02:00:15] <kad77_work> slashdot and groklaw will cover it enough
[02:00:23] <JonathanThompson> Ok, so some former Microsoft employees joined that company...
[02:00:23] *** rhu has quit IRC
[02:00:36] <kad77_work> apple apparently settled on it already, as did MS, so it is a valid troll
[02:00:38] <JonathanThompson> I guess that means Microsoft is trying to take over Yahoo!, too, amongst other things :P
[02:00:53] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22546 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/disk_systems/Jamfile: Missed to add this one.
[02:00:59] *** nielx has quit IRC
[02:01:41] * [Katisu] wonders how many other Xerox patents the troll owns
[02:03:05] *** NeoOokami has joined #haiku
[02:04:10] *** franxico has quit IRC
[02:06:50] <pyCube> i dunno.. not so obvious != not true.. isnt that the point of checking it out.. to see if things are or arent?
[02:06:57] *** rhu has joined #haiku
[02:07:05] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22547 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
[02:07:05] <CIA-5> Decided that BPartition::ImmutableDelegate would basically be a big
[02:07:05] <CIA-5> collection of no-op methods, which could as well be implemented in
[02:07:05] <CIA-5> BPartition itself. This makes the Delegate hierarchy unnecessary:
[02:07:05] <CIA-5> MutableDelegate becomes Delegate, and we save a few casts as a side
[02:07:06] <CIA-5> effect.
[02:07:45] <pyCube> assuming something isnt real just because its too convenient for some anti-ms trolls is just as silly as being all freak out anti ms
[02:08:29] <umccullough> i think the more interesting discussions are the ones that suggest patent reform
[02:08:36] <kad77_work> ditto
[02:08:43] <aldeck_> +1
[02:08:58] <umccullough> i don't honestly care if microsoft is bankrolling someone
[02:09:00] <kad77_work> if only the congress critters were more active in discussing that, though
[02:09:05] <pyCube> JonathanThompson: hey.. i lost a bit of weight today... lopped off a couple years worth of hair
[02:09:08] <pyCube> hehe
[02:09:17] <umccullough> pyCube, i lopped a few months myself ;)
[02:09:32] <pyCube> i get a haircut once every couple years or so it seems
[02:09:55] <[Katisu]> I'm curious who exactly complied with the patent for the past 16 years
[02:10:06] <pyCube> of course, i am stupid.. i cut it off AFTER al lthe suymmer heat..
[02:10:10] * pyCube smacks self
[02:10:26] <umccullough> well, that's part of the patent thing - you can be in violation as long as nobody seems to care :P
[02:10:30] * JonathanThompson wonders if pyCube now feels 10 pounds lighter and is 5 hat sizes smaller
[02:10:46] <umccullough> and that's dumb
[02:10:55] <pyCube> i was semi-planning on waiting till halloween.. was gonna get the mullet to end all mullets
[02:10:57] <[Katisu]> yeah, but I believe you have to defend it within a certain time frame
[02:11:04] <pyCube> but i couldnt take it any longer
[02:11:08] <[Katisu]> kind of like compuserve and gif files
[02:11:09] <umccullough> [Katisu], i think that's exclusive to trademarks
[02:11:12] <umccullough> not patents
[02:11:17] <JonathanThompson> Chances are BeOS was in violation of it, and oddly enough, I suspect they can't do anything about Haiku since it probably wasn't even far enough along during the term.
[02:11:40] <JonathanThompson> Trademarks are the only ones where if you don't defend them, you lose them.
[02:11:43] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, I suspect they'll only go after companies with money
[02:11:55] <umccullough> so, Haiku should remain safe
[02:12:18] <JonathanThompson> Well, IIRC, it would extend to somewhere in 2004, and IIRC, Haiku wasn't even far enough along in implementation for it to matter at that time.
[02:12:24] <[Katisu]> yeah, but if anyone serious wants to use haiku?
[02:12:27] <umccullough> and honestly, linux is safe as well, the code won't disappear or anything
[02:12:53] <johndrinkwater> bit stupid, only wanting compliance with companies that make a lot of money (kinda highlights trolling)
[02:13:04] * JonathanThompson thinks that company should rename themselves to "The Yellow Submarine Patent Holding Company"
[02:13:30] * JonathanThompson starts singing, "We all live in a yellow submarine"
[02:13:40] <kokito> did I hear yellowTAB? :P
[02:13:46] <umccullough> lol
[02:13:50] <aldeck_> hehe
[02:13:55] <JonathanThompson> That's your mental problem, kokito, not mine :P
[02:14:00] <umccullough> "we all live in a yellow-tabbed submarine"
[02:14:07] <aldeck_> lol
[02:14:21] * umccullough switches tabs
[02:14:22] <kokito> never mind JonathanThompson :P
[02:14:25] * JonathanThompson wonders how many long horizontal window borders that submarine has
[02:14:39] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22548 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/storage/DiskSystemAddOnManager.cpp: gcc 4 fix.
[02:15:10] * aldeck_ wonders if we should add periscopes to the window tabs
[02:16:10] * JonathanThompson suggests also that drain plugs are added at the same time
[02:16:19] <JonathanThompson> And don't forget the screen doors :P
[02:19:23] * umccullough adds a swamp cooler
[02:20:45] *** joltz has joined #haiku
[02:28:22] *** sh0i has quit IRC
[02:32:02] *** kad77_work has quit IRC
[02:37:09] *** aldeck_ has quit IRC
[02:37:16] *** Olathe has joined #haiku
[02:37:34] <Olathe> Do the nightly vmware builds include gcc ?
[02:38:18] <miqlas> no
[02:39:55] <Olathe> Is there a preferred method of installing it ?
[02:40:41] *** kennyjb402 has quit IRC
[02:41:02] <kokito> miqlas!! :)
[02:45:28] <umccullough> Olathe, not exactly
[02:45:38] <umccullough> but you can download it from bebits and unzip it somewhere on the image
[02:47:09] <kokito> Olathe, this may help you too: http://haiku-os.org/documents/dev/installing_haiku_to_a_partition_from_linux
[02:48:43] <Olathe> Cool, I'll try it from bebits.
[02:49:18] <Olathe> I'm glad to see the networking working so well :)
[02:50:44] *** agony has joined #haiku
[02:55:09] *** agony has quit IRC
[02:56:08] *** agony has joined #haiku
[03:01:58] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC
[03:17:49] *** NeoOokami has quit IRC
[03:25:59] *** agony has quit IRC
[03:28:18] *** agony has joined #haiku
[03:31:06] *** Disreali has quit IRC
[03:33:10] *** mmu_man has quit IRC
[03:38:10] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[03:42:54] *** M_199 has joined #haiku
[03:44:45] *** Olathe has left #haiku
[03:44:48] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku
[03:54:57] *** Master199 has quit IRC
[04:02:09] *** aphedox_ has joined #haiku
[04:04:04] *** aphedox has quit IRC
[04:33:49] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku
[04:42:16] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC
[04:54:08] *** acidx has quit IRC
[04:54:52] *** Stamrogh has quit IRC
[04:55:00] *** LeandroLuiz has quit IRC
[05:03:31] *** [Katisu] has joined #haiku
[05:18:26] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC
[05:37:10] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC
[05:44:14] * JonathanThompson wonders where scanty has been hiding
[05:49:53] * JonathanThompson notes the first time he's ever had OSNews.com come up with an "OSNews is currentlyu down for maintenance.  We will be back shortly." message
[05:50:31] * JonathanThompson finds darkwyrm has deleted his new WordPress blog, on the same day
[05:51:10] * Hodapp stares blankly
[05:51:34] * JonathanThompson reads Darkwyrm's latest news, and stares at least as blankly at his announcement
[05:52:18] <Hodapp> if only my life were interesting enough to write a blog
[05:52:35] <JonathanThompson> I'm not sure mine is, outside of cranes falling on top of me.
[05:52:35] <Hodapp> but alas, most days I could copy and paste from the last day
[05:52:47] <Hodapp> geez, why'd you walk underneath a falling crane?
[05:52:56] <JonathanThompson> No, it followed me home!
[05:53:46] <JonathanThompson> A Microsoft attorney on the top floor of the building had it kill him as he was watching TV: I was in the stairwell directly under where it hit, when it hit.
[05:54:08] <Hodapp> Hmmm.
[05:54:11] <Hodapp> What attorney?
[05:54:18] <JonathanThompson> Patent attorney, IIRC.
[05:54:22] <JonathanThompson> Not long on the job.
[05:54:33] <Hodapp> An evil one?
[05:54:44] <JonathanThompson> Didn't get to know him to figure that out.
[05:55:14] <JonathanThompson> I'd like to think the apartment management wasn't nasty enough to insist that his estate pay the early termination fee for the lease.
[05:55:31] <JonathanThompson> Then again, considering what they did with me, it wouldn't surprise me :/
[05:57:27] <JonathanThompson> When I lived in Indianapolis, in the same summer, I had a couple of kids spin out their camaro through my backyard, and end up parked back-end in to the neighbor's rear bedroom on the south of me, and the people they failed to pass correctly hit the north neighbor's fence, and damaged one of my trees, and then also my house got struck directly by lightning on one end while I was taking a shower at the other end, frying half the stu
[05:57:27] <JonathanThompson>  plugged in.
[05:57:43] <JonathanThompson> And this computer was powered on and online at the time it hit, too.
[05:58:11] <JonathanThompson> It fried the PCI NIC that I had put in it to replace the built-in NIC that got fried from an indirect lightning zap prevously.
[05:59:11] <JonathanThompson> So, other than getting laid off in 2001 and not being able to find work, having massive kidney stone problems and then a degenerative inner ear thing hit me, I guess I've led a fairly boring life.
[05:59:16] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku
[06:00:08] <JonathanThompson> I think for the most part, my life could be summed up as long periods of positively boring events punctuated by (often painful) pure chaos of weird types.
[06:02:17] <pyCube> heh
[06:02:26] <pyCube> man.. you need some change or something
[06:02:36] <JonathanThompson> Of which type? :P
[06:02:46] <pyCube> of your own doing/choice
[06:02:55] <JonathanThompson> I guess I do.
[06:03:16] <pyCube> its not like you get a do-over
[06:03:23] <pyCube> at this life business
[06:03:25] <JonathanThompson> Sadly, that's too true.
[06:03:47] <JonathanThompson> I'm not certain where things are heading long-term with my current employment.
[06:04:14] <JonathanThompson> I'd like to think I'm in some long training period before doing the regular dev stuff, but, if the time comes up at the end of the contract, and that doesn't change, I'll make the change.
[06:04:50] <pyCube> its it something you want to do.. this job?
[06:04:55] <JonathanThompson> I'm not enjoying what I'm doing currently, as either I wasn't given a straight answer as to what I'd be working on and doing.
[06:05:09] <JonathanThompson> I'm currently doing SDET work.
[06:05:23] <JonathanThompson> That bores the hell out of me, and I feel I'll have my skills get dull, too.
[06:05:40] <pyCube> what do you actually WANT to do, nevermind practicality, reality and all that stuff for a minute?
[06:05:48] <JonathanThompson> And, I'm getting to see how FUBAR their stuff is in general, and shaking my head.
[06:06:07] <JonathanThompson> I wish to develop software and work on the main product, not be doing test code constantly.
[06:06:25] <JonathanThompson> I'd rather do the architectural type stuff, too, to be more precise.
[06:06:39] <JonathanThompson> I get none of that with the test stuff I'm doing.  Sure, I'm writing code, but, it's not the same.
[06:06:39] <pyCube> any software, or is there some strand of it in particular that you really love?
[06:06:56] <JonathanThompson> Deeply technical stuff, I guess.
[06:07:49] <JonathanThompson> I love doing large design type of stuff.
[06:07:54] <JonathanThompson> I get none of that with what I'm working on.
[06:07:55] <pyCube> sounds like you need to invent/create something of your own
[06:08:15] <JonathanThompson> Yes, and I'm doing that, slowly, with my IDE, when I have the combination of both energy and time.
[06:08:53] <pyCube> yeah.. but being stuck testing somebody elses code as a living seems to be an obstacle
[06:09:02] <JonathanThompson> With what I have in mind to do within that, that requires far more diversity than what I'm running into at the contract.
[06:09:40] <JonathanThompson> What's really driving me nuts is that when I make recommendations, chances are I won't have them be taken seriously.
[06:10:06] <JonathanThompson> I've had a recent management change due to my original manager deciding to go to Microsoft Research, so I'll see how it works out.
[06:10:09] <pyCube> yeah.. like you get treated as a monkey
[06:10:19] <pyCube> but youdont wanna be a monkey
[06:10:46] <JonathanThompson> But, if they won't take mt recommendations with seriousness, I'll leave, I don't have the sanity to throw away by uselessly doing a headdesk manuever.
[06:11:45] <JonathanThompson> I'm not certain how close to the market rate for my skills it is I'm making, etc. but, I don't work only for money.
[06:12:24] <JonathanThompson> Besides, if they won't use me to advantage when I try to help, that's wasting their money, too, besides my time and sanity.
[06:12:27] <JonathanThompson> I see no point.
[06:13:31] <JonathanThompson> The guy that went to Microsoft Research, well, if he continues the pattern of development I see evidence of, I wonder how well he'll do there.... I see evidence that he's responsible for a huge amount of the stupid crap I'm running into.
[06:13:35] <pyCube> i know i wouldnt be coding if i wasnt doing what i am doing
[06:13:44] <JonathanThompson> "Stupid crap" meaning he clearly didn't test his code.
[06:13:55] <pyCube> i couldnt be a 'go to work and work on some project i have no connection to' kinda person
[06:14:41] <pyCube> i dont particularly care for programming for programmings sake.. dont enjoy it at all.. i like to make stuff, and code is a neat medium to work in
[06:14:55] <JonathanThompson> If Coinstar had a position open for me, I'd go back in a heartbeat, even though I'd likely be making less money.
[06:15:39] <JonathanThompson> They treated me as a useful member of the team, and during the odd downtimes while waiting for QA to do stuff, etc. I was assigned a research project to carry out for them.
[06:16:01] <pyCube> cool
[06:16:08] <JonathanThompson> In other words, I got to do something of real value to them, and they had me in the guts of their system immediately, much as I've had it at past employers.
[06:17:08] <JonathanThompson> Sadly, my weird misfortune life had it such that the manager above my hiring manager messed up my chance to get hired permanently by them by doing financial stuff under the table.
[06:17:25] <JonathanThompson> That upper manager was escorted out of the building during the time I was working on that contract.
[06:17:40] <JonathanThompson> I guess I'm just lucky in an unlucky way.
[06:17:41] <pyCube> i really just want to turn this period of my life into a farm and the ability to basically retire
[06:18:40] <JonathanThompson> I, too, am one of those that just has to create.
[06:18:56] <JonathanThompson> And that's one of the things that's driving me a bit nuts, I guess: I'm not really allowed to create.
[06:19:20] <JonathanThompson> And yes, code is a great medium to create things in, I agree.
[06:19:45] <JonathanThompson> I'm not certain I care all that much which language I do it in, as long as it isn't too much of a PITA to type/read/write.
[06:21:33] <JonathanThompson> Just ask some of my cousins for examples of my creations :P
[06:21:50] <JonathanThompson> Like the 80-sided box I wrapped a wedding present in...
[06:22:06] <JonathanThompson> And, of course, there's my mad scientist kitchen experiments.
[06:22:48] <pyCube> heh
[06:23:13] <JonathanThompson> I do have a notable disability in the kitchen, though: no sense of smell.
[06:23:29] <pyCube> well, i want to fill a gap at work, person wise, but its difficult to describe the gap
[06:23:38] <JonathanThompson> (At least, not any sense of smell of practical use)
[06:24:29] <JonathanThompson> So, I guess I most likely miss out on the subtler taste/smell things.... but... I can't tell!
[06:24:39] <pyCube> basically me, but with years more experience in sw design
[06:24:40] <pyCube> hehe
[06:25:31] <pyCube> i get tired of second guessing myself.. thinking i might be overlooking something critical that i'd not miss had I more years of experience and training
[06:25:50] <JonathanThompson> So, I don't know how my current contract will end up: will they hire me permanently, or not?  I must say, I've not exactly had much ambition to get things done quickly....
[06:26:20] <JonathanThompson> I saw the discussion about the Be API earlier today, and I had to laugh at it all, pyCube :P
[06:26:36] <pyCube> oh? heh
[06:26:41] <JonathanThompson> The Be API is a prime example of people learning on the job, but the worst thing is, their mistakes were frozen in code permanently :P
[06:27:18] <pyCube> yeah
[06:27:23] <pyCube> i want to avoid that
[06:27:32] <pyCube> i know i am learnign on the job
[06:27:38] <JonathanThompson> Just ask JackBurton and DeadYak about how FUBAR the menu handling is in BeOS by design.
[06:27:49] <pyCube> but i want a co-architect with a mentor bent
[06:27:58] <JonathanThompson> Well, no school will teach you all you need to know.
[06:28:14] <JonathanThompson> I'd like to think I could fulfill that sort of role.
[06:29:47] <JonathanThompson> One of the things that's frustrated me greatly there is that at least in the subsystem I've been assigned to, my C++ knowledge and design abilities exceed that of the manager that left for Microsoft Research, and now I'm stuck dealing with the crap he left behind.
[06:31:01] <JonathanThompson> An example of a FUBAR bug that demonstrated not testing code while also not understanding C++ properly involved a routine that restored a database from a logfile, but due to using alloca() which allocates on the stack, and not doing the scoping correctly, it was completely corrupting the entire database it restored.
[06:31:27] <JonathanThompson> It would have been incredibly simple to verify that the data made sense from a restore, IF it had been tested.
[06:31:52] <JonathanThompson> I found the bug by doing code review of the stuff, which he'd gone over before, but hadn't found it previously.
[06:31:57] <JonathanThompson> I.... wasn't impressed.
[06:34:37] <JonathanThompson> Should I end up applying/interviewing for a position at The Evil Giant, I won't mention him as someone I know...
[06:34:49] <pyCube> heh
[06:35:19] <pyCube> ya never know.. does who you know matter more than what the person you know knows?
[06:35:38] <JonathanThompson> I don't know, you know, so no, I can't give an answer of yes or no :)
[06:36:11] <pyCube> no?
[06:36:38] <JonathanThompson> Well, I do know that Microsoft doesn't get anal retentive and only accept people that have a college degree from higher-end schools.
[06:37:06] <JonathanThompson> They tend to be better about that than Google, and actually consider candidates that have experience even without the high-falutin' college paper.
[06:37:36] <pyCube> in a field like software, it seems like a bad idea to be bitchy about ones papers
[06:38:15] <pyCube> its not like writing code is like brain surgery
[06:38:29] <JonathanThompson> BGA had submitted my resume back last year, and they looked at my ITT Tech background, and were scared off.
[06:38:30] <pyCube> ..even writing good code
[06:38:50] <pyCube> .. and bad code can be fixed, unlike a bad brain operation
[06:39:08] <JonathanThompson> Ok, so ITT Tech and the degree I got through there wasn't exactly a computer science degree, and there's no reasonable expectation that much of anything was covered, etc. but... it doesn't mean all that much, either.
[06:39:41] <JonathanThompson> And, of course, my observation was that at the time, I could out code the instructors I had that were teaching it.
[06:39:48] <JonathanThompson> I know I drove one batty, in fact.
[06:39:56] *** kokito has quit IRC
[06:40:31] <JonathanThompson> The thing is, I didn't do what was extremely advanced stuff, but... I was more able to do such stuff than the instructor I had at the time.
[06:40:44] <pyCube> maybe this is my lack of training showing, but i think that getting things done is more important than fancy code
[06:40:53] <pyCube> ..as code can be reworked
[06:41:06] <JonathanThompson> And, of course, what really miffed him was when I caught him using a C final exam that I challenged him on, since I could tell it wouldn't even compile :P
[06:41:55] <JonathanThompson> True enough... I just wanted to make nicer output, and have a little more flexibility as to matrix size for transforms.
[06:42:30] <pyCube> i like to get the ideas out and in some form of workingness as early as i can
[06:42:36] <JonathanThompson> To do that, since I didn't have any instruction on how to use pointers in Pascal, I suballocated 2D arrays in a single larger single dimension array.
[06:43:38] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC
[06:44:20] <pyCube> i use a series of functional prototypes as my explore/spec stage.. heh
[06:45:55] <JonathanThompson> I'd have to state that mostly what I got out of ITT Tech for programming was access to software tools and hardware to run it on, and exposure to a few related problems to solve for the field, but, they didn't teach me how to think like a software developer/computer science type of person in thought process.
[06:46:20] <JonathanThompson> I had already been doing more advanced stuff while in junior high/high school, really, in Applesoft BASIC.
[06:47:20] <JonathanThompson> I don't know if any of their programs that "Learn how to be a computer programmer!" or whatever really are any good or not, but I strongly suspect it'd be worth more financially to get self-help books or websites, and teach yourself how to program.
[06:47:27] <pyCube> i had no choice but to figure out how to code
[06:47:51] <geist> JonathanThompson: did you work with lasers?
[06:48:00] <JonathanThompson> I can't help but wonder if having ITT Tech listed for a programming diploma might be more of a negative than having nothing formal at all.
[06:48:07] <JonathanThompson> A small amount, geist.
[06:48:08] <pyCube> pretended i knew what i was doing, and somebody took me seriously
[06:48:11] <geist> JonathanThompson: was not working with lasers what you used to think?
[06:48:22] <JonathanThompson> For computer programming?  No.
[06:48:27] <geist> JonathanThompson: sounds too complicated
[06:48:38] <JonathanThompson> I went into the electronics engineering technolgy/automated manufacturing technology program.
[06:49:50] <JonathanThompson> So yes, I've programmed robots and other automation in my past.
[06:50:20] <JonathanThompson> I've also wired up part of an assembly line in a CD production plant, too, FWIW.
[06:50:39] <JonathanThompson> It can be entertaining, having to get in/out of clean room suits.
[06:50:58] <JonathanThompson> And all your coworkers (and yourself) look like giant bunny rabbits :P
[06:52:15] * JonathanThompson wonders if his one ITT Tech classmate that also started at the same time is still there, servicing the injection molding machines
[06:52:34] <pyCube> I've been coding a "real" app lately.. i had a good excuse
[06:52:41] <pyCube> and i am having a ton of fun.. hehe
[06:52:56] <JonathanThompson> What makes it "real" versus not in your mind, pyCube?
[06:53:24] <pyCube> its not in my mind.. it was sarcasm, as a lot of people try to down play web apps as being 'not real' or whatever
[06:53:41] <JonathanThompson> I see.
[06:54:00] <JonathanThompson> Web pages without any intelligence to them, that's clearly not an application.
[06:54:05] <pyCube> so its real in the sense that its a qt4 app, not in a browser
[06:54:32] <JonathanThompson> I wouldn't list my current website as an applicaiton, that's for sure :)
[06:54:54] <JonathanThompson> But, at this time, I have no need for a web application or even a site that approaches that.
[06:55:03] *** aphedox_ has quit IRC
[06:55:25] <pyCube> i am building a nice xmlrpc based api.. working with some other people that are writing web frontends.  In order for me to have a nice test situation, i made a qt4 app that ties into it all
[06:55:42] *** aphedox_ has joined #haiku
[06:56:02] <pyCube> helps me debug things.. gives me context from the 'using the api' angle
[06:56:19] <pyCube> also helps me make nicer interfaces
[06:56:30] <JonathanThompson> GUI interfaces, or code?
[06:56:34] <pyCube> code
[06:57:54] <pyCube> also, using the methods in some application helps me to anticipate convenience methods that I will eventually get asked to create
[06:58:31] <JonathanThompson> The thing to watch out for is that you don't try to think too far ahead of what's needed now, and add all sorts of things that may end up not being used later.
[06:58:54] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC
[06:59:11] <pyCube> sure
[07:00:27] <pyCube> i really like to explicit separation you get when you are thinking in terms of writing webservices, and whatever for frontend
[07:02:40] <umccullough> .t gmt
[07:02:45] <JonathanThompson> Oh, and realize when you need to refactor things, and not be afraid to do it: I point to BView as a prime example of where that wasn't done when it should have been :)
[07:02:45] <BuildFactory> Sun, 14 Oct 2007 05:02:21 GMT
[07:02:55] <pyCube> what was cool for me was that i have been pretty much exclusively working on this xmlrpc stuff for a while now.. writing code, getting feedback from the frontend guys, etc.. and when i turned to make something using the methods, i took only a couple hours to have a nearly fully functional clone of our flagship product
[07:03:03] <JonathanThompson> BView has WAY too much in it.
[07:03:12] <pyCube> nothign but ui code and making xmlrpc calls
[07:03:53] *** Stamrogh has joined #haiku
[07:04:46] <pyCube> and after years of html/css/javascript hell when you want something like a sortable column listview, being able to do theTree = QTreeView() is like, heaven.. heheh
[07:05:24] <pyCube> or better yet, just draw the damn thing in qt designer
[07:05:26] <JonathanThompson> BOutlineListView is another hack where they went the wrong way.
[07:05:48] <JonathanThompson> It would have made more sense to have only BOutlineListView than to have BListView as well.
[07:06:21] <JonathanThompson> Instead, the BListView is the base class of BOutlineListView, and the data structures and methods to manipulate them don't fit properly.
[07:06:30] <pyCube> this little qt4 thing is the first time i have really used a gui tool like qt designer
[07:06:39] <pyCube> its pretty nice actually
[07:07:02] *** stargater has quit IRC
[07:07:32] <JonathanThompson> Some hardcore developers swear that GUI designers are evil, lazy, whatever, but... if you have a good one, they can save a lot of time, if you know how to use it.
[07:07:57] <JonathanThompson> Though honestly, Microsoft could do better with theirs that ships with Visual C++/Visual Studio.
[07:08:21] <pyCube> i keep it simple..use it just for ui layout/naming
[07:08:49] <pyCube> and subclass the output, do all the slot/signal stuff etc there myself
[07:09:18] <pyCube> that way i can always reopen the ui file, move things, add things, etc, and not break my code
[07:11:22] <JonathanThompson> I wonder if purist's minds would change in the BeOS world if BeOS actually had a good GUI editor available.
[07:11:42] <pyCube> i like to code by hand, but i'll admit, i am more interested in functional code, problem solving, than hand coding ui layout
[07:11:59] <pyCube> so being able to quickly draw my ui is nice
[07:12:13] <pyCube> its really all i want out of a gui editor
[07:12:14] <pyCube> hehe
[07:12:23] <JonathanThompson> A GUI is definitely one thing I think you should use tools to make as quick as possible to make nice.
[07:13:08] <JonathanThompson> Nothing I've used in BeOS has qualified for being easy to use and powerful and not crash-prone.
[07:13:25] <pyCube> yeah.. its the differnce between a tool that tries to code FOR you versus one that helps YOU code
[07:14:27] <pyCube> things like code completion from code and libraries etc.. super handy stuff
[07:14:57] <pyCube> but even things like refactor tools.. they scare me
[07:15:02] <JonathanThompson> Oh, that reminds me of some of the sins of the code I have to work with at work :)
[07:15:32] <JonathanThompson> I'll need to start using an editor with auto-completion sooner or later, or spend some time and correct so many horrible spellings it'd make you scream.
[07:15:43] <pyCube> hehe
[07:16:07] <pyCube> well, for python, i absolutely swear by pydev for eclipse
[07:16:18] <JonathanThompson> Such things as things with "Length" as part of the variable name being spelled "Lenght"
[07:17:01] <pyCube> i like the little misspelled squiggly underlines i get when i do some code error, syntax or spelling
[07:17:20] <JonathanThompson> I've also seen one of the most creative spellings of "Manager" as part of a class name, one I can't remember of the top of my head, because it is a true WTF.
[07:17:30] <JonathanThompson> off
[07:17:45] <JonathanThompson> They added a whole extra syllable.
[07:17:46] <pyCube> i have misspelled student as studnet an amazing amount of times...
[07:18:01] <pyCube> hehe
[07:18:07] <pyCube> and my software runs in schools around the country
[07:18:16] <JonathanThompson> Oh, the irony :)
[07:18:20] <pyCube> "teacher, whats a studnet?"
[07:18:30] <JonathanThompson> Stuff that's supposed to be teaching kids how to spell, etc. with bad spellings :)
[07:18:31] <pyCube> hehe
[07:18:58] <JonathanThompson> We'll just call it " pyCube Poison" and be done with it :)
[07:19:01] <pyCube> heh.. studnet never made it out to production..
[07:19:21] <umccullough> we often use the word "Coverages" in our product and documentation... makes me chuckle all the time
[07:19:55] <brlcad> :)
[07:20:04] <JonathanThompson> When I worked for the CD plant, often in our documents we'd use "Masterable" and invariably, Word would ask us if we meant "masturbate"
[07:20:17] <pyCube> the other routine error is: elsE:
[07:20:56] <JonathanThompson> You need an auto-correction for that one, pyCube :)
[07:21:18] <pyCube> i have sudp set as an alias for sudo on all my machines
[07:21:44] <umccullough> just so you can encourage your mistakes?
[07:21:48] * JonathanThompson considers a tacit IDE feature request
[07:22:02] <pyCube> i am not concerned about spelling when i want to run somethign as root
[07:22:02] <JonathanThompson> That way he can make them efficiently, umccullough :)
[07:22:26] <umccullough> pyCube, no? - maybe you should also have an rn alias for rm ;)
[07:22:41] * JonathanThompson slaps umccullough sillier than normal
[07:22:42] <pyCube> thats different
[07:22:47] <umccullough> heh
[07:23:12] <umccullough> who knows, maybe someday there will be a sudp
[07:23:24] <pyCube> if i wasnt intending to do sudo, i cant see how i'd accidentally mange to type sudp
[07:23:34] * JonathanThompson notes it takes rm -r some time to clean up loaded directories on volumes of several terabytes
[07:24:08] <pyCube> sudp.. what happens after you swear infornt of your mother
[07:24:29] * JonathanThompson notes sudp is also another 4-letter word
[07:24:36] *** Stamrogh has quit IRC
[08:16:45] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku
[08:27:11] *** plfiorini_ is now known as plfiorini
[08:29:58] *** Begasus has joined #haiku
[08:30:34] <Begasus> morning peeps
[08:33:00] <plfiorini> moin
[08:35:11] *** magnetron has joined #haiku
[08:36:38] <plfiorini> is there a way to force haiku to boot with the vesa driver instead of the nvidia one which causes a freq. out of range?
[08:37:56] <Begasus> boot into safe video mode?
[08:38:28] <plfiorini> yes that's another way to tell :)
[08:38:45] <plfiorini> i tried to hit space w/o success
[08:39:02] <Begasus> did you select the desired video mode also?
[08:39:31] <Begasus> it's not enough to just select safe video mode ... you have to select the resolution also
[08:39:45] <Begasus> second thing to try is to disable user add-ons
[08:39:50] <plfiorini> i couldn't see any menu like in r5, maybe it was too late
[08:39:58] <Begasus> ah ..
[08:40:16] <plfiorini> and i first thought the menu was not implemented yet
[08:40:17] <Begasus> mf ... not sure if those options are included in the Haiku bootmanager already ...
[08:40:46] <plfiorini> wait a second, i try to boot /dev/sda4 with qemu
[08:41:53] <plfiorini> no menu yet
[08:42:08] *** insomnia has quit IRC
[08:42:51] <Begasus> not sure if it can handle the R5 manager to select safe options ...
[08:43:31] <plfiorini> can i edit a system file?
[08:45:07] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku
[08:45:22] <Begasus> well the kernel file in /boot/home/config/settings/kernel/ should hold some options ... but I've never played with that in Haiku
[08:45:33] <Begasus> +drivers
[08:52:01] <Begasus> hmm how do I start a partition (/dev/sda7) in qemu?
[08:52:26] <plfiorini> qemu -hda /dev/sda7
[08:52:58] <Begasus> I meant using the qemu launcher ;)
[08:53:07] <Begasus> but I could try that too .. ;)
[08:53:18] *** lorglas has joined #haiku
[08:53:36] <plfiorini> what's the qemu launcher?
[08:54:12] <plfiorini> (my firewire disk is dying)
[08:54:21] <Begasus> a gui for qemu
[08:55:00] <plfiorini> i'm sure there should be a config option to set the hda file
[08:55:41] <Begasus> does it need to be mounted?
[08:57:58] <plfiorini> no
[08:58:08] <Begasus> think I need to set it bootable ;)
[08:58:21] <plfiorini> yes
[08:58:26] <plfiorini> try qemu -hda /dev/sda
[08:58:43] <plfiorini> it should display your bootloader
[08:59:10] <plfiorini> i booted the haiku i previously installed to disk now :)
[09:00:36] <plfiorini> mmmm no option for vesa
[09:06:53] *** plfiorini has quit IRC
[09:06:54] *** lorglas has quit IRC
[09:12:29] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku
[09:12:52] <plfiorini> Begasus: i found an option, just move the nvidia driver ;)
[09:13:13] <Begasus> that's an option too ;)
[09:13:24] <plfiorini> hehe :)
[09:14:08] <Begasus> it's a bit like not using user add-ons ... (can't if they're not around) ;)
[09:14:39] <Begasus> I think it still doesn't boot the hda because of sata here ...
[09:14:54] <Begasus> the image it self boot good ...
[09:15:13] <plfiorini> my problem with sata got resolved recently
[09:15:34] <plfiorini> but i saw on dev.haiku-os.org that other people got the same problem
[09:15:45] <Begasus> problem is also that I'm building with gcc4 (wich seem to have some problems recently) :(
[09:15:47] <plfiorini> have you tried a very recent rev?
[09:15:53] <plfiorini> yeah i tried it
[09:16:00] <Begasus> just build the latest rev ...
[09:16:01] <plfiorini> some executables don't start
[09:16:22] <Begasus> it doesn't even boot native here on the laptop (sata)
[09:16:45] <plfiorini> i have two generated directories, one for gcc2 one for gcc4 so i will give another try to gcc4 builds in the future
[09:17:35] <Begasus> hd space doesn't allow me to do them both on the laptop ;)
[09:17:49] <plfiorini> that's why i bought a 500G hd
[09:17:57] <plfiorini> but mine is not a laptop
[09:18:46] <Begasus> can't use the spare 120GB hd for the laptop 'cause it's IDE ...
[09:18:55] <plfiorini> :(
[09:19:36] <plfiorini> i need a method to learn faster, like in matrix
[09:19:38] <Begasus> this one is a 80GB .. but shared with Vista,Zeta and a Haiku partition (running ubuntu atm)
[09:19:52] <Begasus> I'm past the learning stage ;)
[09:20:26] <plfiorini> heh i need to learn how the app_server works because there's a thing i would develop
[09:20:38] <plfiorini> the current behaviour of haiku is annoying
[09:20:57] <plfiorini> if you change the font you have to restart the applications to get the new setting
[09:21:31] <plfiorini> it would be better if the app_server could send a message to the applications to redraw themselves because the font setting got changed
[09:22:30] <Begasus> wouldn't that require the app itself to somehow refresh?
[09:23:59] <plfiorini> i thought about a special message that BWindow handles in MessageReceived() and redraws its childs with an Invalidate() maybe
[09:24:18] <Begasus> you lost me at BWindow ;)
[09:24:26] <plfiorini> :)
[09:24:45] <Begasus> but it's good to see that people are active !
[09:25:10] <plfiorini> i don't have much free time but i would like to do some coding when i got a free slot
[09:25:28] <plfiorini> because haiku r1 alpha must be released soon!!! :)
[09:26:24] <Begasus> still quite some hw probs that need resolving I think ...
[09:26:57] <plfiorini> i can't work in kernel space
[09:27:30] <plfiorini> if i had the knowledge i could help in this area... :(
[09:28:38] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku
[09:28:59] <Begasus> sticking to porting some stuff and maybe later on in the process do some translations ...
[09:29:08] <Begasus> morning Ingenu
[09:29:29] *** joltz has quit IRC
[09:31:52] <plfiorini> what's the status of the cups port?
[09:32:27] <Begasus> idle atm ...
[09:32:29] <plfiorini> anyone working on it?
[09:32:37] <Begasus> vasper has been working on it ...
[09:33:06] <Begasus> but he ran into some probs ... and has some other priorities atm ...
[09:33:18] <plfiorini> ok so i can investigate
[09:33:19] *** stargater has joined #haiku
[09:33:23] <stargater> moin
[09:33:24] <plfiorini> hi stargater!!!
[09:33:27] <Begasus> moin
[09:33:39] <stargater> wow thats fast plfiorini
[09:34:22] <plfiorini> i installed a new cpu
[09:35:03] <plfiorini> Begasus: at least yT released the patches, so i can port the diff to the latest version and try
[09:37:03] <Begasus> yeah plfiorini ... but you need some newer libs etc to be able to build ...
[09:38:11] <JonathanThompson> Just got back from the grocery store, plfiorini, and I read the back comments.  The most logical thing for font size changes/etc. would be to send a single message to each application that's GUI, because that's an application-wide setting.
[09:38:16] <Begasus> plfiorini, http://vbeosa.blogspot.com/
[09:38:21] <Begasus> howdy JonathanThompson
[09:38:23] <JonathanThompson> It'd also likely be less overhead doing it that way as well.
[09:38:34] * JonathanThompson lobs an insane greeting involving a codpiece at Begasus
[09:38:58] * Begasus googles for codpiece ...
[09:39:05] <JonathanThompson> :)
[09:39:50] <JonathanThompson> Friday I was joking about them, and then the late late show on CBS was also joking about them, so... I don't know, codpieces must be on the minds of people in the world recently :P
[09:40:17] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: ok thanks, now i open a ticket so me or other people can do it
[09:40:50] <JonathanThompson> Sadly, the font update issue is by design, so that's an incompatible-to-BeOS request.
[09:41:25] <JonathanThompson> Definitely should be fixed with something that's less static in R2 :)
[09:42:03] <plfiorini> Begasus: thanks
[09:42:22] * Begasus gladly returns the codpiece to JonathanThompson ... no need for it here (yet) ;)
[09:43:05] <JonathanThompson> Thursday I was joking that as part of my personal policy, I'd amend it to add, "Never to buy fish from a man wearing only a codpiece, especially one made of cod"
[09:43:10] <Begasus> np plfiorini  .. no need to do work twice ;)
[09:43:23] <Begasus> but maybe you could mail him and ask him 'bout his progress?
[09:43:34] <Begasus> or even some pointers ;)
[09:43:57] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: heheh i thought that, a lot of cool things will happen in R2
[09:44:20] <JonathanThompson> I have in mind a few things myself that would be quite source-incompatible with R1 apps.
[09:44:31] <JonathanThompson> For one thing, BView is just a monstrosity that lost its focus horribly.
[09:44:52] *** AlexForster has quit IRC
[09:44:52] <JonathanThompson> And just ask DeadYak and JackBurton about how FUBAR the BMenu handling really is.
[09:44:59] <plfiorini> Begasus: yep, it's what I am doing - anyway it seems his work has been done on R5 so maybe the port will be easier on haiku (for example flock is missing in r5)
[09:45:20] * JonathanThompson has a flock server running on his R5 machine for svn
[09:45:37] <plfiorini> yeah i know flock_server
[09:48:04] <Begasus> flock can be enabled in Perl afaik ...
[09:48:29] <Begasus> atleast I heard that compiling Perl with flock should get some progress ...
[09:48:52] <Begasus> that should enable you to compile latest autoconf/automake etc ...
[09:49:21] <Begasus> doesn't mean it supports it though ... can't check it myself ... ;)
[09:49:55] <plfiorini> posix/fcntl.h /* for use with flock() - TODO: this should be moved to sys/file.h *if* we'll support flock() one day */
[09:50:09] <Begasus> hehe
[09:50:18] <plfiorini> something tells me haiku doesn't support flock()
[09:52:18] <JonathanThompson> There's a lot of things it doesn't support, and one I wish it could have already is using pre-existing drivers for things like IDE and SCSI.
[09:52:21] <JonathanThompson> Oh well.
[09:52:37] <JonathanThompson> That's why my next system will have a supported SATA controller and drive :/
[09:53:56] <JonathanThompson> Without the SATA support (even though I undestand it's not quite all there yet) Haiku would remain limited to those with older IDE controllers/drives and SATA running in IDE emulation, and those running it in VMWare and such virtual machines.
[09:54:53] <Begasus> yep ...
[09:55:46] <JonathanThompson> I think a big reason for me not to be in too much of a hurry to get a new machine is waiting for Haiku to catch up in terms of what it supports.
[09:56:03] <JonathanThompson> That, and I'm waiting for Xeons that aren't out yet...
[09:56:30] <Begasus> so .. that and support for Xeons ... should give you some waiting time then JonathanThompson  :P
[09:56:32] <pyCube> the next computer i buy will probably be for my wife
[09:56:47] <JonathanThompson> I don't think the Xeons themselves will be an issue, Begasus.
[09:56:57] <Begasus> really should have a look at the daughters laptop ..
[09:57:02] <JonathanThompson> I may be wrong, but I expect they won't be a meaningful factor.
[09:57:03] <Begasus> dualcore?
[09:57:08] <pyCube> big hd, lots of ram, and one of them fancy drawing pad input thingies
[09:57:16] <JonathanThompson> Dual quadcore is my plan, Begasus.
[09:57:26] <Begasus> w00t :)
[09:57:37] <plfiorini> dual quadcore?
[09:57:38] <Begasus> planning on going apple pyCube ? ;)
[09:57:44] <pyCube> nah
[09:57:45] <JonathanThompson> Low-power mutations, so I can run without heating up my apartment as much: that means I have to wait a little longer for the low-power parts :)
[09:58:02] <JonathanThompson> Yes, plfiorini, dual Penryn generation Xeons.
[09:58:30] <plfiorini> JonathanThompson: I think it will costs too much for my pocket
[09:58:55] <JonathanThompson> Well, I'm making decent enough money, don't have any debts right now, no woman in my life, and really old hardware....
[09:59:24] <JonathanThompson> And for all I know, I'll have to make my next system last as long as I've had this one, because some life-changing event that screws up the concept of regular upgrading.
[10:00:31] <JonathanThompson> Besides, I have my thoughts that computer speed won't increase all that much in the next 5 years without a really major change of technology anyway.
[10:00:40] <Begasus> you were planning to buy a new system 5 years back IIRC JonathanThompson ;)
[10:00:41] <plfiorini> i just bougth this on january,so it must live for 3 years
[10:00:53] <Begasus> or even longer ;)
[10:01:08] <JonathanThompson> Begasus, that may be true (actually, I'm not sure 5 years ago, as that wouldn't have worked too well) but reality got in the way.
[10:01:21] <plfiorini> it will die when dual quadcore will cost like this amd 64 x2
[10:01:58] <JonathanThompson> I had bought this machine (mostly) in 99, had to replace the original model motherboard in January 2000 because it died, and couldn't get the exact same one, and I've been using this motherboard since then, and both CPU's the entire time.
[10:02:36] <JonathanThompson> And this machine has had some bad things happen to it, like a direct lightning strike.
[10:03:03] <Begasus> ;)
[10:03:04] <JonathanThompson> So, I can't help but get the nagging feeling that regardless of what I want, I have to be prepared for it to die of old age and battle damage.
[10:05:01] <JonathanThompson> I'd ideally like to get a new machine with as few moving parts as possible, because moving parts=failure points.
[10:05:14] <Begasus> I think you can get a pretty nice base system that doesn't cost to much atm and should be as good as the one you have atm ...
[10:05:40] <JonathanThompson> Considering the age and speed of my CPU's, that's not aiming at any machine that's new :P
[10:06:13] <Begasus> no but could replace the one you have atm and be prepared if things really go bad :P
[10:06:33] <JonathanThompson> The good thing is that I have two other PC laptops, so it'd be a minor annoyance.
[10:06:41] <Begasus> ah ;)
[10:07:27] <JonathanThompson> So, I'm not THAT worried and hurried.
[10:07:40] <Begasus> nah .. not if you have backup hw ...
[10:08:21] <JonathanThompson> And, like it or not, chances are I can't afford to not become proficient in working on Vista software, so I need to get something that's worth bothering with.
[10:08:44] <JonathanThompson> I could in theory upgrade the RAM in this machine to 2 gigs, but... it'd still be a poor Vista machine, I believe.
[10:09:28] <Ketsuban> Vista runs comfortably on 512MB (although that's the only thing that will run). 1GB is passable, 2GB is ample.
[10:09:31] <JonathanThompson> I'm not certain if I have a PSU limitation, or a fried AGP slot, but I tried a new nVidia card in it, after the TNT2 scanty shipped me died.
[10:10:17] <JonathanThompson> Since I didn't have another machine to do testing with, I couldn't verify what the issue was, so I spent the least amount of money/time I could, and just reverted to a PCI GeForce 5500.
[10:11:14] <JonathanThompson> CompUSA (they were still around at the time) when I asked them if they could figure certain things out, made it clear that regardless of what I wanted/needed, they were completely incapable of doing what needed to be done to properly diagnose things, so... they had to process a returned card.
[10:11:15] <JonathanThompson> Idiots.
[10:11:20] <Begasus> running Vista on this laptop (512MB) is a pain here ...
[10:11:32] <geist> running vista on * is a pain
[10:12:28] <JonathanThompson> I'm not certain how much getting an AGP slot card for this machine would help it over the PCI mutation, considering I'm not doing 3D gaming.
[10:12:46] <JonathanThompson> And as it is, I know this card I have now couldn't be saturated with my CPU's capacity anyway.
[10:13:01] <JonathanThompson> (For 3D stuff)
[10:13:52] <JonathanThompson> Though it probably wouldn't hurt for 2D stuff, since I like to run at a high resolution and bit depth.
[10:15:04] <Begasus> ;)
[10:17:51] * JonathanThompson wonders if BeOS uses any additional RAM beyond the 12 megs for this 2D screen out of the 256 megs video RAM
[10:18:26] *** Euver has joined #haiku
[10:18:31] <Begasus> taking a look at the settings should help you out there ;)
[10:18:41] <JonathanThompson> Sadly, no.
[10:18:55] <JonathanThompson> There's nothing in the settings for Preferences to indicate such useful information.
[10:19:02] <Begasus> vm?
[10:19:13] <JonathanThompson> virtual memory?
[10:19:30] <Begasus> yep
[10:19:41] <JonathanThompson> I don't think the video driver would place the video RAM under the main VM management at all.
[10:19:44] <JonathanThompson> So, I don't think that'd help.
[10:19:48] <Begasus> hmm ..
[10:19:51] <Begasus> nope
[10:20:06] <Begasus> well you could write a small app to check the ram usage ;)
[10:20:34] <JonathanThompson> Without looking at the code for the driver, I don't think so.
[10:20:55] <JonathanThompson> At least, not for how much video RAM is being used.
[10:23:35] <JonathanThompson> I strongly suspect Haiku R2 will go with a compositing app_server, and thus, these cards with lots of video RAM will actually be used in a meaningful way under Haiku, where they're not under BeOS.
[10:26:00] *** sarcas has joined #haiku
[10:30:54] *** Stamrogh has joined #haiku
[10:31:48] *** BuildFactory has quit IRC
[10:33:58] *** genkie has joined #haiku
[10:50:51] <stargater> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZZtqjTwp4M&mode=related&search=STK1000%20AVR32%20pong%20embedded%20systems%20linux
[10:51:37] <stargater> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c38jUdeRV30
[10:54:49] *** BePower has joined #haiku
[11:03:19] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku
[11:04:17] <Ingenu> hi
[11:07:52] *** cyrann has quit IRC
[11:09:34] *** wildur has joined #Haiku
[11:18:58] *** MauriceK has quit IRC
[11:20:57] *** genkie has quit IRC
[11:21:04] *** stargater has quit IRC
[11:31:28] *** wasosa_ has joined #haiku
[11:31:29] *** wasosa__ has quit IRC
[11:51:14] <plfiorini> things like autoconf, perl automake, ... goes in /boot/home/config right?
[11:51:17] *** BePower has quit IRC
[11:51:45] *** BePower has joined #haiku
[11:53:09] <Begasus> as long as the Haiku maintainers don't include it in the system lib's/bin's one would say yep ;)
[11:55:05] *** Thom_Holwerda has joined #haiku
[11:55:14] * Thom_Holwerda grumbles
[11:56:25] *** emitrax has joined #haiku
[11:58:11] <emitrax> hi
[11:58:45] <Begasus> hi
[12:02:12] <plfiorini> hi emitrax!
[12:02:32] <plfiorini> Begasus: i'm porting sqlite, but it needs a lot of deps
[12:02:49] <plfiorini> Begasus: since i will wait vasper for cups
[12:03:10] <Begasus> hmm ... sqlite ... isn't there something around for that?
[12:03:14] <plfiorini> Begasus: perl should run fine, it supports beos though - i think i just need to add haiku to the supported os
[12:03:18] <Begasus> from Baldur IIRC ...
[12:03:47] <plfiorini> Begasus: don't know i never followed Haiku development so much as in these days
[12:03:57] <plfiorini> Begasus: i saw a .tar.gz from zeta
[12:04:10] <Begasus> well it was done with Zeta afaik ...
[12:04:23] <Begasus> with/in ...
[12:04:43] <Thom_Holwerda> and osnews is down again
[12:04:45] <Thom_Holwerda> damnit
[12:04:54] <plfiorini> but i would like to port the changes to haiku for the latest sqlite version, anyway without large files support and flock it won't be a great port
[12:09:54] <Begasus> I suppose there will be other dependencies that need to be for filled also ...
[12:10:18] <Begasus> quite a few missing libs in Haiku atm ...
[12:10:44] <plfiorini> autotools and perl should run fine, just need to s/beos/haiku/
[12:11:10] <plfiorini> once i got latest versions compiled i am sure sqlite will tell me it needs other stuff
[12:12:16] <Begasus> probly ;)
[12:12:32] <plfiorini> and then i will try to port :)
[12:12:45] <plfiorini> and send patches to upstream
[12:12:55] <Begasus> keep us informed ;)
[12:13:49] <plfiorini> yep
[12:16:19] <plfiorini> oh shit ff died
[12:17:39] <Begasus> hehe
[12:19:31] <plfiorini> it died on linux, i am experiencing some stability issues
[12:20:20] <Begasus> trying to check how I can apply a patch ...
[12:22:15] <plfiorini> so... afaik haiku netkit is similar to bone so perl Configure shouldn't skip what R5 didn't support
[12:23:32] *** BePower has quit IRC
[12:28:04] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku
[12:42:10] *** Euver has quit IRC
[12:44:18] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku
[12:46:34] *** BePower has joined #haiku
[12:46:48] <Lelldorin1> hi all
[12:47:26] <Begasus> hi Lelldorin1  ;)
[13:04:03] <CIA-5> axeld * r22549 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/ (WindowLayer.cpp WorkspacesLayer.cpp): (log message trimmed)
[13:04:03] <CIA-5> * WindowLayer::InWorkspace() was actually nowhere used the way it was
[13:04:03] <CIA-5>  implemented; it now only returns wether or not the window is part of the
[13:04:03] <CIA-5>  list specified by the index. This fixes bug #195 and #1553.
[13:04:03] <CIA-5> * HasInSubset() would report "true" for app-floating windows vs. modal app
[13:04:06] <CIA-5>  windows which was wrong.
[13:04:09] <CIA-5> * Removed SameSubset() as it isn't needed at all.
[13:11:25] *** M_199 has quit IRC
[13:12:59] *** begasus_ has joined #haiku
[13:23:44] <CIA-5> axeld * r22550 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/ListView.cpp: MakeEmpty() now also calls _FixupScrollBar() - this fixes bug #1558.
[13:24:57] *** Begasus has quit IRC
[13:26:18] <MrSunshine> in haiku can i grab a window and render it to an image? :)
[13:26:22] <MrSunshine> (beos/haiku)
[13:26:41] <MrSunshine> like GetWindow("Tracker")->RenderToBitmap(buffer); ? :)
[13:27:02] <plfiorini> print screen gets the whole screen, don't know for a single window
[13:27:12] <plfiorini> it saves a png into ~
[13:37:05] <MrSunshine> plfiorini, yeah ... but it has to be able to render to a buffer ... imo :)
[13:38:33] <plfiorini> MrSunshine: that would be cool
[13:39:46] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC
[13:40:11] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku
[13:44:35] <MrSunshine> any beos devs here that know anything about it? :)
[13:45:47] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC
[13:50:08] *** begasus_ is now known as Begasus
[13:51:08] <Begasus> hmm ... any reason why the nv.settings file for nvidia cards isn't included in the settings folder in Haiku?
[13:51:09] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku
[13:51:12] <Begasus> wb Lelldorin1
[13:51:29] <Lelldorin1> re
[13:53:02] <plfiorini> omg haiku slows down and vmware is writing a lot to the disk
[13:53:11] <plfiorini> doing a lot of i/o to my real hdd
[13:55:51] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC
[13:56:00] *** nielx has joined #haiku
[13:56:23] <nielx> hiya
[13:57:46] <Begasus> hi nielx
[13:58:11] <nielx> congrats!
[13:58:28] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku
[13:59:28] *** BuildFactory has joined #haiku
[13:59:31] <Begasus> congrats?
[13:59:40] <Begasus> ps ... still in Eindhoven?
[13:59:45] <nielx> yes :-)
[14:00:00] <nielx> I'm writing my report
[14:00:27] <Begasus> great!!
[14:00:33] <Lelldorin1> hello all: is there a haiku image with drivers for usb, mouse, etc? or there are only images for emulation?
[14:01:09] *** emitrax_ has joined #haiku
[14:01:16] <Begasus> the raw images can be used to install native ..
[14:01:26] <Begasus> ;)
[14:01:30] <Lelldorin1> but my mouse does not run
[14:01:33] <Begasus> checking the pup ...
[14:02:38] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku
[14:04:48] <Begasus> re
[14:07:17] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[14:08:34] *** SprMa has joined #haiku
[14:09:28] <MrSunshine> so anyone has any idea if i can render a window to a bitmap using beapi ?
[14:12:55] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku
[14:12:56] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil
[14:14:58] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC
[14:17:22] *** acidx has joined #haiku
[14:19:15] *** emitrax_ has quit IRC
[14:19:44] *** emitrax_ has joined #haiku
[14:21:19] <MrSunshine> dr_evil, you are app server hacker? :)
[14:21:28] <MrSunshine> or interface kit hacker: )
[14:21:33] *** Hubert_2 has joined #haiku
[14:21:41] *** Hubert_2 is now known as Hugen
[14:21:54] <dr_evil> neither
[14:21:55] <Hugen> hi all
[14:22:01] <Hugen> hi Begasus
[14:22:23] <MrSunshine> dr_evil, ok ... but you dont happend to know if i can capture a full window and render it to a bitmap ? :)
[14:22:27] <MrSunshine> insted of the full desktop ..
[14:22:37] <Hugen> one question: where is ahci sata driver for testing??
[14:22:42] *** emitrax has quit IRC
[14:22:44] *** oco has joined #haiku
[14:22:45] <Hugen> ;>
[14:23:16] <Begasus> hi Hugen !
[14:23:27] <Hugen> :)
[14:23:28] <Begasus> long time no see ... all well?
[14:24:10] <Hugen> yes, I'm in German now.
[14:24:13] <nielx> Message posted :-)
[14:24:41] <Begasus> how long before you take the stand nielx ?
[14:24:55] <Begasus> ps .. if you see Andre say hi from me there ;)
[14:24:58] <Hugen> when is BG??
[14:24:59] <nielx> Begasus: it was two and a half hours ago!
[14:25:03] <nielx> and I saw Andre :-)
[14:25:04] <Begasus> eeps ;)
[14:25:19] <Hugen> and where is driver for SATA??
[14:25:20] <Begasus> mf .... thought it was around 4pm .. :/
[14:25:27] <nielx> yes, in the former schedule, it was
[14:25:27] <Begasus> Hugen, should be in the builds
[14:25:33] <Begasus> bugger ...
[14:25:34] <Hugen> ah
[14:25:39] <nielx> but don't worry
[14:25:45] <nielx> we've got video!
[14:25:50] <nielx> www.citytv.nl
[14:25:50] <Begasus> cool!!;)
[14:26:17] <nielx> it's just I don't watch myself :-)
[14:27:09] <Begasus> tss ... firefox needs vlc plugin there it seems ...
[14:27:14] <Hugen> Begasus: in image Haiku??
[14:28:00] <Begasus> yeah Hugen .... atleast I think it is ... should be build if it's included in the Haiku tree (or I could be wrong, but I though someone mentioned it earlier here)
[14:28:52] <Hugen> heh and apart driver is doesn't exist? :D
[14:30:13] <Begasus> don't think it's posted on BeBits or anywhere else ...
[14:30:36] <Begasus> you should ask the maintainer ;)
[14:31:12] <Hugen> yea :)
[14:31:43] <Hugen> Begasus: Did you know when is BG??
[14:31:48] <MrSunshine> well i guess ther eis no way then :((
[14:31:55] <CIA-5> axeld * r22551 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
[14:31:55] <CIA-5> * Now uses the new create_display_modes() function.
[14:31:55] <CIA-5> * Now supports the new B_GET_EDID_INFO hook under Haiku.
[14:31:55] <CIA-5> * Fixed build under BeOS.
[14:32:05] <Begasus> haven't heard anything concrete yet Hugen  ...
[14:32:26] <Hugen> hmm, ok
[14:33:11] <Begasus> http://www.flickr.com/photos/begasus/1566954011/
[14:33:16] <Begasus> pup is growing fast ;)
[14:36:36] *** Hugen has quit IRC
[14:37:15] <nielx> speak to you all later!
[14:37:18] *** nielx has quit IRC
[14:47:18] *** BePower has quit IRC
[14:49:58] *** Thom_Holwerda_ has joined #haiku
[14:49:58] *** Thom_Holwerda has quit IRC
[15:03:14] *** magnetron has quit IRC
[15:05:52] *** magnetron has joined #haiku
[15:08:59] *** miqlas has quit IRC
[15:10:45] <CIA-5> korli * r22552 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/HaikuImage: removed pcmcia-cs tools
[15:13:13] <Begasus> cu later peeps
[15:14:12] *** Begasus has quit IRC
[15:21:30] *** SprMa has quit IRC
[15:22:37] *** TheNerd has joined #haiku
[15:25:17] *** SprMa has joined #haiku
[15:33:27] *** laka has joined #haiku
[15:35:03] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku
[15:38:50] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku
[15:41:16] <laka> hello all. i'm not really using haiku or beos. i have a question concerning OO in operating systems: what happens if the OS-developpers add a new private member to an OS class, for example to BApplication. Have all applications (subclassing BApplication) to be recompiled?
[15:43:29] *** urnenfeldb has joined #haiku
[15:52:45] <CIA-5> axeld * r22553 /haiku/trunk/ (build/jam/HaikuImage data/etc/inputrc):
[15:52:45] <CIA-5> * Added PackageInstaller to the image.
[15:52:45] <CIA-5> * Added an inputrc to the image that should have the same effect as the recent
[15:52:45] <CIA-5>  bash readline default changes for other apps that use readline.
[15:54:01] <CIA-5> julun * r22554 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/time/ (30 files): (log message trimmed)
[15:54:01] <CIA-5> * implemented Time, Date, DateTime classes to be used in CalendarView
[15:54:01] <CIA-5> * implemented new Calendarview, capable to show/hide week numbers and day names
[15:54:01] <CIA-5>  weekstart sunday/monday and getting the current selected date etc...
[15:54:02] <CIA-5> * updated mail addresses
[15:54:04] <CIA-5> * make use of the new calendar view in time prefs
[15:54:06] <CIA-5> * changed required classes to use the new date, time classes
[15:55:11] *** rdmr has joined #haiku
[15:57:32] <laka> bye
[15:57:37] *** laka has quit IRC
[16:02:50] *** BePower has joined #haiku
[16:03:16] *** MYOB has joined #haiku
[16:07:20] <Thom_Holwerda_> still no osnews
[16:07:33] <Thom_Holwerda_> goddamnit i hate being dependent on americans.
[16:07:44] *** Thom_Holwerda_ is now known as Thom_Holwerda
[16:10:42] <MrSunshine> i do not get it how someone writes a driver from the specs ... its like nothing there .. just alot of registers with strange names :P
[16:11:58] <urnenfeldb> i know wht u feel MrSunshine
[16:12:07] <MrSunshine> looking at the ati specs atm :)
[16:12:21] <MrSunshine> there is no explenation to them! :P
[16:14:52] *** urnenfeldb has quit IRC
[16:16:16] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC
[16:18:59] <MYOB> I wonder does the Croke Park stadium announcer still have a job today; apparently we were playing "West Germany" last night :P
[16:24:30] <Thom_Holwerda> MYOB: hahahahaa
[16:26:25] <MYOB> may as well have been west germany, they played like arse for an apparently excellent team and had to resort to some very dirty tackles to prevent goals
[16:26:35] <MYOB> one of which was definately a straight red card
[16:26:49] *** meisje has joined #haiku
[16:27:33] <MYOB> and based on injuries we were basically playing with "Ireland B, featuring special guests Shay Given and Robbie Keane"
[16:27:58] <Thom_Holwerda> we lost
[16:28:01] <Thom_Holwerda> against romania.
[16:29:26] <MYOB> 0-0 for us
[16:29:32] <MYOB> in a stadium the DFB apparently slagged off...
[16:29:40] <Thom_Holwerda> that's a win for you
[16:29:51] <MYOB> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Croke_Park_from_the_hill.jpg
[16:30:44] <MYOB> thats apparently a "poor" stadium...
[16:30:56] <Thom_Holwerda> i like it
[16:32:41] *** Judgen has joined #haiku
[16:32:48] <MYOB> only 82,500 capacity like :P
[16:32:54] <MYOB> (76,000 for soccer)
[16:33:21] <Judgen> re?
[16:33:37] <Judgen> i finally fell through and bought a mac
[16:33:51] <MYOB> BOLD BOY! go stand in the corner and think about what you've done
[16:34:27] <Judgen> *cries and moans* i dont wanna stand in the corner =(
[16:35:55] <Thom_Holwerda> osnews is back up!
[16:36:01] * Thom_Holwerda hales the Americans
[16:36:04] <Thom_Holwerda> hailes*
[16:36:08] <Judgen> i thought the mac would boot slower.. kinda like on the G4 i had a long time ago
[16:36:40] <Thom_Holwerda> haha, half of the background img is gone though
[16:38:35] <Judgen> i didnt think the avalabillyty of mac games though
[16:38:46] <Judgen> its so many
[16:38:58] <Judgen> *believe*
[16:40:29] <MYOB> all I play on my Mac is SC4
[16:40:34] <MYOB> because my copy of SC4 is the Mac one :P
[16:40:46] *** emitrax_ has quit IRC
[16:40:59] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[16:41:20] <Judgen> 4?
[16:41:23] <Judgen> SC4?
[16:41:34] <Judgen> starcraft4 =)
[16:41:45] <Thom_Holwerda> simcity 4.
[16:41:50] <Judgen> aaah
[16:42:02] <Judgen> is there an intel version of sim city?
[16:42:20] <Judgen> i have sim city 3000 working via bootcamp
[16:42:21] *** emitrax has joined #haiku
[16:44:31] <MYOB> there is
[16:44:50] <Judgen> http://judgen.googlepages.com/Mitt_skrivbord.jpg
[16:44:51] <MYOB> buy the PPC version and the UB is a download from Aspyr's website
[16:44:51] <Judgen> hehe
[16:45:00] <Judgen> MYOB: ok
[16:47:49] <MYOB> I also have FM2007 for Mac but its a dual format CD and I play it on Windows...
[16:49:28] <MYOB> right, bbl
[16:49:38] *** emitrax_ has joined #haiku
[16:50:04] <Judgen> FM?
[16:50:40] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[16:55:43] <Judgen> football manager?
[16:59:13] *** BePower has quit IRC
[17:00:39] *** emitrax has quit IRC
[17:05:22] <CIA-5> sbenedetto * r22555 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/busses/usb/ (ohci.cpp ohci.h ohci_hardware.h ohci_rh.cpp):
[17:05:22] <CIA-5> * License changed: I've successfully contacted Jan-Rixt Van Hoye, and he gave me his bless :)
[17:05:22] <CIA-5> * Usual clean up
[17:06:50] *** meisje has quit IRC
[17:07:01] *** Judgen has left #haiku
[17:07:44] *** emitrax_ has quit IRC
[17:08:07] *** MYOB has quit IRC
[17:10:09] *** emitrax_ has joined #haiku
[17:11:22] *** MangoFusion has joined #haiku
[17:19:26] *** MauriceK has quit IRC
[17:19:33] *** genkie has joined #haiku
[17:25:37] *** SprMa has quit IRC
[17:26:44] *** genkie has quit IRC
[17:28:28] *** emitrax_ has quit IRC
[17:28:55] *** emitrax_ has joined #haiku
[17:31:10] *** emitrax_ has quit IRC
[17:33:56] *** nielx has joined #haiku
[17:33:57] *** rdmr has quit IRC
[17:34:11] <nielx> re
[17:34:51] *** emitrax has joined #haiku
[17:35:10] <umccullough> hi nielx
[17:35:27] <nielx> hi umccullough, I think I did it :-)
[17:35:39] <umccullough> it went well?
[17:36:18] <nielx> yes, but ask Ed__, he was there :-)
[17:36:50] <umccullough> "dipswitch" in #t-dose told me last night he was going to have someone record it ;)
[17:36:54] <umccullough> hope he did
[17:37:14] *** urnenfeldb has joined #haiku
[17:37:37] <nielx> yes he did
[17:37:42] <nielx> have a look at www.citytv.nl
[17:43:29] <umccullough> is the recording still available? those appear to be live links
[17:44:37] <nielx> well, it should be available, but it might just be available later
[17:49:24] <umccullough> cool, let me know if you ever get a link to a download or something (I can't stream from here anyway)
[17:54:45] <nielx> I'll look into it
[17:54:55] <nielx> I might ask for the rights to put it on the Haiku website
[17:55:03] <nielx> (if it's any good)
[17:58:33] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku
[18:00:23] <kad77> this would help extract the video: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3006
[18:19:42] *** rdmr has joined #haiku
[18:30:13] *** urnenfeldb has quit IRC
[18:32:40] *** emitrax has quit IRC
[18:32:52] *** cps1966 has joined #haiku
[18:34:09] <brlcad> drat, the disk images no longer "just work" for some reason
[18:34:44] <brlcad> tried a variety of contortions, but haiku keeps failing at the boot screen saying it could not mount a boot device
[18:39:42] *** sp3ctrum has joined #haiku
[18:39:49] * Thom_Holwerda waves
[18:39:56] <Thom_Holwerda> nielx: how was Eindhoven?
[18:41:13] *** Euver has joined #haiku
[18:42:04] *** BePower has joined #haiku
[18:52:06] *** MangoFusion has quit IRC
[18:53:17] <brlcad> btw, this is under Parallels, have tried with two separate disk images, both converted and not, all failing the same -- here's a serial log if anyone can gleam something more interesting out of why it's failing:  http://bzflag.bz/~sean/haiku/serial_r22554_20071014.txt
[18:55:35] <CIA-5> axeld * r22556 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/real_time_clock.c: Fixed various style issues.
[18:58:10] *** MauriceK has quit IRC
[19:06:56] <MrSunshine> any devs here now that know if i can capture the full drawing of a window to a bitmap ?
[19:06:57] <nielx> Thom_Holwerda: it was okay
[19:07:07] <MrSunshine> (char buffer)
[19:07:22] <Thom_Holwerda> good attendance?
[19:07:37] <nielx> 25 people
[19:07:38] <nielx> so yes
[19:07:43] <nielx> especially for a sunday morning
[19:08:36] <nielx> the programming KDE 4 had the same attendance
[19:09:45] <Thom_Holwerda> wow
[19:09:46] <Thom_Holwerda> thats not bad
[19:09:51] <nielx> not at all :-)
[19:10:03] <nielx> and I think it went well
[19:10:10] <nielx> though it's a bit difficult when you're the speaker
[19:10:43] <etteyafed> I wonder what would be involved in getting haiku to load itself off a cd and into a ramdisk at boot...
[19:11:31] <etteyafed> i could do it in linux and load haiku from there but haiku won't use the linux ramdisk.
[19:13:09] <Thom_Holwerda> nielx: generally, presenters know full and well the quality of their work
[19:13:25] <Thom_Holwerda> so if you feel it went well, it most likely indeed go well
[19:13:30] <nielx> well, let me put it this way then, I think I lost three people
[19:13:42] <nielx> which I'm very much aware of, since I'm a teacher
[19:13:55] <Thom_Holwerda> when im presenting, i can easily see who im losing, and who is still listening
[19:14:09] <Thom_Holwerda> the best feeling is when you are presenting in a group, and you take back listeners
[19:14:26] <Thom_Holwerda> that dropped out on the previous member of your group :)
[19:14:50] <nielx> I think I had a good, varied speech
[19:15:07] <nielx> it was too bad Haiku decided to freeze on me
[19:15:43] <Thom_Holwerda> oops
[19:15:46] <Thom_Holwerda> that hurts
[19:15:57] *** hUMUNGUz has joined #haiku
[19:15:58] <nielx> yes, well
[19:16:12] <nielx> it did not stress me out
[19:16:31] <nielx> I sort of expected it :-)
[19:16:36] <nielx> I wowed them with the boot speed
[19:16:41] <nielx> even withing vmware
[19:17:19] *** kokito has joined #haiku
[19:17:33] <kokito> nielx!! :P
[19:17:51] <nielx> kokito !!!
[19:18:05] <kokito> you almost beat KDE talk's attendance record! :)
[19:18:19] <nielx> yes !
[19:18:31] <nielx> and KDE was at a descent timeslot
[19:18:36] <nielx> so I'm happy
[19:18:48] <kokito> you should definitely be!
[19:19:08] <nielx> have you read the report?
[19:19:18] * kokito is reading now
[19:19:49] <MrSunshine> kokito, what part of haiku were you involved with? :)
[19:20:53] <kokito> MrSunshine, if you are asking about what part of the code, then the answer is "none" :)
[19:21:24] <kokito> I was the marketing lead for a while, and now keep doing marketing related stuff on the side
[19:21:49] <etteyafed> Has anyone heard of the linux kernel thing that is trying to boot a forign os from a running kernel?
[19:22:11] <etteyafed> maybe it is fictional
[19:23:29] *** meisje has joined #haiku
[19:25:10] <Thom_Holwerda> haha, Mandriva's Adam Williamson (AdamW) just submitted a link to a review of Mandriva 2008 to osnews... his submission read: "write your own text, i have a hangover :P"
[19:25:12] <Thom_Holwerda> :P
[19:26:14] *** rx has joined #haiku
[19:26:22] *** etteyafed is now known as tx
[19:26:34] <nielx> hehe
[19:26:41] <nielx> I'd just mention that
[19:26:41] *** tx is now known as etteyafed
[19:26:41] <MrSunshine> kokito, humm, i thought you were a part of the code :)
[19:26:43] <MrSunshine> but my miustake
[19:27:33] *** insomnia has joined #Haiku
[19:27:41] * etteyafed throws several large snakes into the channel.
[19:27:46] <CIA-5> axeld * r22557 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
[19:27:46] <CIA-5> Applied patch by Julun: time computations based on an algorithm by Fliegel,
[19:27:46] <CIA-5> and van Flandern (1968), instead of those inefficient loops we had before.
[19:27:46] <CIA-5> Thanks!
[19:28:12] <etteyafed> feeding the mongeese i am.
[19:28:38] <kokito> MrSunshine, can't write a single line of code, even if I wanted to
[19:29:14] <MrSunshine> aww :)
[19:29:20] * MrSunshine pats kokito on the head
[19:29:21] <MrSunshine> :)
[19:30:31] <etteyafed> I can code but I am under a curse that only lets me code of it is something that I don't want to do but am getting paid for.
[19:30:37] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku
[19:30:49] <etteyafed> of == is
[19:33:16] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC
[19:35:04] *** MYOB has joined #haiku
[19:38:02] *** TheNerd_LT has joined #haiku
[19:39:42] <MrSunshine> MYOB, you then, were you a dev? :P
[19:40:59] *** Disreali has joined #haiku
[19:41:39] <MYOB> MrSunshine wha?
[19:41:48] <MrSunshine> MYOB, are you a haiku dev or not? :)
[19:42:05] <MYOB> I'm not. Why?
[19:42:22] <MYOB> theres some small amounts of code in there that are mine, hence I'm on the Contributors list, thats about it
[19:42:24] <MrSunshine> k, looking for someone that can answer a interface kit question .. but no one seems to react on the question :)
[19:42:55] <MrSunshine> if its posible to render the full image of just 1 window into a bitmap ..
[19:43:00] <MrSunshine> memory buffer
[19:43:38] *** emitrax has joined #haiku
[19:43:41] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku
[19:44:26] <urnenfeld> how much ram do you need to build haiku? its normal that with 256MB fork complains about no memory ?
[19:44:59] <MrSunshine> you dont have a swap ?
[19:45:04] <MrSunshine> what OS you compiling on ?
[19:45:10] <urnenfeld> R5
[19:45:43] <urnenfeld> around all the process there was around 50MB physical free
[19:47:34] <urnenfeld> but i did not pay attention at all process... and vm is enable.. ufff
[19:48:34] *** BePower has quit IRC
[19:48:52] *** Yaroze has quit IRC
[19:49:47] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku
[19:52:23] *** MangoFusion has joined #haiku
[19:52:34] *** emitrax has quit IRC
[19:54:37] <nielx> MYOB: !
[19:54:40] <nielx> hola
[19:55:09] <urnenfeld> hola=hello in dutch ?
[19:56:16] <MYOB> nielx hello
[19:56:55] <nielx> no, hallo is hello
[19:57:43] <urnenfeld> amm
[20:03:04] <MangoFusion> translate.google.com
[20:04:12] <kokito> MrSunshine, send a message to the Haiku development list, and you will most likely get an answer
[20:04:34] <etteyafed> urnenfeld: I had that problem. Giving it alot more swap fixed it. Took forever though. I think 512 is enough maybe even less.
[20:09:35] *** insomnia has quit IRC
[20:11:22] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku
[20:12:01] *** hUMUNGUz has quit IRC
[20:12:50] <etteyafed> I am forking linux 2.6.23. Calling it SuperLinux ;)
[20:12:53] <etteyafed> So far we have support for All hw in the world and can run any windows software x-cept the viruses. Still working on getting it to make me toast in the morning.
[20:13:30] <MangoFusion> for that you should fork it again
[20:13:40] <urnenfeld> etteyafed: i am trying now ... without leaving alive either the deskbar... :( more swap is not an option for me :(
[20:13:43] <etteyafed> Also, we are able to choose either desktop models or server models on install
[20:13:58] <etteyafed> Well good luck then
[20:14:10] <MangoFusion> then you can charge double for support
[20:14:12] <MangoFusion> :P
[20:14:21] <etteyafed> urnenfeld: It will be tough without enough memory.
[20:14:31] *** stargater has joined #haiku
[20:14:34] <stargater> Hi
[20:14:49] <urnenfeld> hi sarcas
[20:14:54] <urnenfeld> hi stargater
[20:15:16] <urnenfeld> swap has around 350 already plus the 256 installed... crossing fingers...
[20:15:36] <etteyafed> I am thinking that super linux is going to drop X and use an AppServer model that supports gtk and the X protocol
[20:15:59] <stargater> hi urnenfeld , BeGeistert is in December 7 . 8, 9 .12.2007
[20:16:33] <etteyafed> plus it runs on a 33mhz 386 w/4mb ram at blazing speeds.
[20:16:50] <urnenfeld> i think i have holydays that week:) i still ahve a choice :) stargater
[20:17:04] <MangoFusion> sounds ambitious
[20:17:08] <nielx> stargater: where will it be?
[20:17:41] <etteyafed> MangoFusion: It is here already. In my mind. There it will stay.
[20:18:54] <CIA-5> julun * r22558 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/time/ (5 files):
[20:18:54] <CIA-5> * implemented gmt/ local time switch, not working atm but will investigate
[20:18:54] <CIA-5>  note: i think it should be enough to only call _kern_set_tzfilename(..) as the timezone offset and
[20:18:54] <CIA-5>  dst would have been set by clockconfig on boot or from the time prefs panel while switching the
[20:18:54] <CIA-5>  timezone. so the comment in _user_set_tzfilename should not be count and no update would
[20:18:57] <CIA-5>  be needed. it should only take the sIsGmt boolean take into account when getting the time.
[20:19:13] <Thom_Holwerda> etteyafed: yeah, and i have an idea that will bring worldpeace,a cure for cancer and aids, and end hunger
[20:19:26] <Thom_Holwerda> it is already here. in my mind. there it will stay.
[20:19:28] <Thom_Holwerda> ;)
[20:19:31] <etteyafed> End hunger? I eat for that.
[20:19:54] <etteyafed> jk but i guess it is not really funny for the truly hungry
[20:20:26] <Thom_Holwerda> i am hungry atm.
[20:20:33] <Thom_Holwerda> i need to cook but im too lazy to
[20:21:01] <Thom_Holwerda> ah what the hell, ill go and cook dinner
[20:24:02] *** alpha-li1n has joined #haiku
[20:25:10] <brlcad> woo hoo, works under Q/Qemu
[20:28:12] <stargater> nielx: in "Düsseldorf / Germany"
[20:36:51] <stargater> urnenfeld: thats whas nice when you can come
[20:41:12] <stargater> etteyafed: x is not slow, but the sheduler for x is not on top of the System(Kernel) priority.
[20:41:31] *** alpha-lion has quit IRC
[20:41:46] *** MangoFusion has quit IRC
[20:44:18] *** alpha-li1n is now known as alpha-lion
[20:46:19] *** meisje has quit IRC
[20:46:54] *** kokito has quit IRC
[20:48:18] *** emitrax has joined #haiku
[20:53:54] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[20:57:04] *** rdmr has quit IRC
[20:58:52] *** sarcas has quit IRC
[20:59:36] *** TheNerd_ has joined #haiku
[21:06:07] *** TheNerd_LT has quit IRC
[21:11:55] <nielx> stargater: ah, düsseldorf is just two hours away by train
[21:12:20] <stargater> you came from NL ?
[21:12:49] <nielx> yes
[21:13:04] <stargater> ah cool Ithamar too
[21:13:34] <stargater> but i have not here e mail addy :(
[21:14:51] <stargater> ah i must mail the syllable maintrainer
[21:16:59] <nielx> today, I sort of re-realized what an amazing system BeOS/Haiku is
[21:20:05] *** BePower has joined #haiku
[21:28:11] <stargater> :-)
[21:29:04] *** MYOB has quit IRC
[21:38:40] <urnenfeld> etteyafed: worked! just input server, registrar & terminal running in system!!
[21:44:08] *** dr_evil has quit IRC
[21:45:44] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku
[21:58:57] *** {V} has quit IRC
[22:05:05] *** MangoFusion has joined #haiku
[22:21:30] *** dr_evil has quit IRC
[22:21:49] *** {V} has joined #haiku
[22:22:18] <plfiorini> yeah i won an old pc
[22:22:29] <plfiorini> going to install zeta and haiku on it!!
[22:27:04] *** sp3ctrum has left #haiku
[22:31:35] *** Judgen has joined #haiku
[22:38:55] *** TheNerd_ is now known as TheNerd_LT
[22:43:55] *** flyinghippo|AWAY has joined #haiku
[22:45:01] <Ketsuban> Ping.
[22:46:00] <plfiorini> Pong
[22:46:07] <PulkoMandy> Pang
[22:47:07] <plfiorini> plung
[22:47:44] <JonathanThompson> Flush!
[22:49:52] <plfiorini> prot
[22:54:35] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC
[22:55:52] <urnenfeld> stargater: any offical begeistert site?
[22:56:19] * JonathanThompson suggests that regardless of physical location, it'll be online to some degree
[23:00:14] <stargater> urnenfeld: www.begeistert.org , but not up to date, in the next week
[23:00:31] <stargater> charlie develop the backend
[23:03:28] *** BePower has quit IRC
[23:04:34] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC
[23:05:00] *** BePower has joined #haiku
[23:10:00] *** MauriceK has quit IRC
[23:10:23] <nielx> later all
[23:10:27] *** nielx has quit IRC
[23:11:15] *** BePower has quit IRC
[23:11:22] *** magnetron has quit IRC
[23:17:27] *** TheNerd_LT has quit IRC
[23:19:58] *** magnetron has joined #haiku
[23:23:03] <Ingenu> night
[23:23:14] *** Ingenu has quit IRC
[23:24:39] *** wildur has quit IRC
[23:26:46] <urnenfeld> danke stargater
[23:42:33] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC
[23:53:48] *** Master199 has joined #haiku
[23:56:04] *** Judgen has quit IRC

   October 14, 2007  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | >