October 12, 2007 
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October 12, 2007 [00:07:07] *** stargater has joined #haiku[00:07:12] <stargater> hi[00:15:17] *** Perndog has quit IRC[00:24:28] *** joejaxx has joined #haiku[00:26:13] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku[00:30:24] *** [1]umccullough has joined #haiku[00:31:56] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[00:37:23] *** kr1stof_ has joined #haiku[00:42:20] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[00:46:43] *** nielx has quit IRC[00:48:43] *** kr1stof_ is now known as kr1stof[00:49:02] *** umccullough has quit IRC[00:49:03] *** [1]umccullough is now known as umccullough[00:51:43] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[00:52:08] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[00:56:37] *** Sikosis has joined #haiku[00:56:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Sikosis[01:02:19] *** bikedude880 has joined #haiku[01:05:52] *** ndim has joined #haiku[01:19:56] *** oco has quit IRC[01:23:35] *** wildur has quit IRC[01:34:09] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[01:37:10] *** skeebeedee has quit IRC[01:42:56] *** mode2 has quit IRC[01:44:37] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[01:44:37] *** pyCube__ has quit IRC[01:44:37] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[01:44:45] *** Cube-ness has joined #haiku[01:45:38] *** kad77 has quit IRC[01:46:54] *** bikedude880 has quit IRC[01:47:25] *** bikedude880 has joined #haiku[01:49:11] *** cyrann has joined #haiku[01:53:17] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[01:53:19] *** petterhj has quit IRC[01:53:55] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[01:55:29] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[01:55:36] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[02:00:16] <bikedude880> Does it matter what the partition is formatted as when dd'ing the hd image to it?[02:02:59] <bikedude880> I'm assuming "EB" (BeOS fs) is acceptable?[02:05:30] *** mode2 has joined #haiku[02:07:34] <AlienSoldier> what is the status on the realtek 8169 in BeOS Bone, is this available somewere os it it stuck in yellowtab conflict?[02:08:04] *** stargater has quit IRC[02:10:03] <AlienSoldier> *or is it[02:15:23] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC[02:23:04] *** bikedude880 has quit IRC[02:24:50] <AlienSoldier> JonathanThompson[02:37:16] * wasosa__ is away: going home[02:47:05] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[02:58:03] *** kokito has quit IRC[03:18:54] *** umccullough_work has joined #haiku[03:20:41] <umccullough_work> geist, http://norcal-hug.org/?q=image/tid/9[03:21:13] <umccullough_work> geist, you have any pics?[03:24:59] <geist> nope, didn't bring my camera[03:25:17] <umccullough_work> must have been stippi or oliver i saw taking pictures[03:36:55] *** M199 has joined #haiku[03:39:36] *** agony__ has joined #haiku[03:48:07] *** agony_ has quit IRC[03:48:47] *** umccullough_work has quit IRC[03:49:59] <DeadYak> yay, new radiohead album[03:51:04] <pyCube> hmm.. any good?[03:51:10] <DeadYak> I like so far[03:51:24] <Hodapp> I need to go download that[03:54:51] *** M_199 has quit IRC[03:55:12] <mode2> support though local artist!@[03:55:25] <mode2> Buy their album off ebay![03:55:35] <pyCube> support the local bread company![03:55:38] <DeadYak> I bought it off their website[03:55:57] <Hodapp> I just bought some CDs from Cardamar[04:02:16] *** marinello has quit IRC[04:10:31] <geist> oh yeah, that reminds me. need to get that[04:10:54] <Hodapp> they take paypal?[04:12:21] <geist> dunno[04:14:50] <mode2> thou** rather[04:16:37] *** aldeck has quit IRC[04:21:06] *** jevin has quit IRC[04:27:53] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[04:32:16] * JonathanThompson writes into his policy manual, "Never buy fish from a man wearing only a codpiece!"[04:36:10] *** bikedude880 has joined #haiku[04:37:09] <bikedude880> Getting ready for a native install[04:37:30] * JonathanThompson wonders what nationality bikedude880 will install :)[04:38:00] *** scanty has joined #haiku[04:38:15] * JonathanThompson lobs a codpiece made of cod at scanty in greetings[04:38:49] * scanty wonders if it is salted cod.[04:39:15] <JonathanThompson> After it's been worn, surely it'd qualify as being assaulted :P[04:39:27] <bikedude880> Promising so far...[04:39:37] <scanty> ah, like the two pretzels walking down the street...[04:39:46] <JonathanThompson> Yup.[04:39:56] <JonathanThompson> One was plain, the other was a salted.[04:40:55] <JonathanThompson> I made a scary observation on the way out of the parking lot from work tonight, scanty: if I'm not careful, I might become an expert at all things Berkeley DB! ACK![04:41:14] <scanty> okay, yeah, that's pretty scary :)[04:42:11] <bikedude880> HDD is almost ready[04:42:17] <JonathanThompson> Meanwhile, my commute after tomorrow will be a little longer.[04:42:22] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC[04:42:26] <scanty> why, did you move house?[04:42:32] <JonathanThompson> Yahoo is moving to larger digs this weekend, in downtown Bellevue.[04:43:12] <pyCube> i discovered a google building near my house the other day[04:43:17] <JonathanThompson> Where we'll be at will be temporary on the first floor, while they finalize the more permanent location on the 6th floor of the same building.[04:43:23] * JonathanThompson shudders[04:43:26] <JonathanThompson> :)[04:43:42] <JonathanThompson> Though I've got one of those less than 1/2 hour commute away, also :P[04:44:11] <scanty> ah gotcha.[04:45:16] <JonathanThompson> While working on fixing one problem test utility, I tracked down that the same reason that utility is faulty is also the same reason that there's a data loss in the main product when it comes to reclaiming data sets.[04:45:26] <scanty> I'm trying to find work, but so far the closest thing is about an hour's drive[04:45:31] <bikedude880> Running BeOS install, then dd'ing raw hdd image over to disk[04:45:32] <scanty> so I can't do that and school at the same time.[04:45:44] <JonathanThompson> That does become a PITA, granted, scanty.[04:45:55] <bikedude880> Oh, and JonathanThompson... USA :P[04:46:02] <JonathanThompson> Though if you could work it such that the bus route (or simiar) worked out well between them, you could do work on the commute.[04:46:10] <bikedude880> Got lucky with USB support[04:47:19] <scanty> I already did some figuring.... it won't work out witth busses.[04:47:25] <JonathanThompson> I've been looking and somewhat planning what sort of system I'll be buying in the next 4-5 months, and considering that in the Intel world, the minor problem is that in a year or so, they'll have Nehalem out with going away from their old FSB, but... I don't want to wait that long, and I'm looking at getting a dual Xeon system.[04:47:37] <scanty> it takes me about 30 min to get to school if I drive, if I go by bus it's at least an hour to 1.5 hours.[04:47:44] <JonathanThompson> And of course, I want/need something that's also Haiku-compatible.[04:48:14] *** rennj has joined #haiku[04:48:43] <JonathanThompson> With the recent SATA driver being added and (likely) working well enough, and (I think) the USB for the same ICH working as well, I'm guessing a recent Intel Xeon platform should be Haiku-compatible.[04:49:25] <JonathanThompson> Though with 8 cores and enough RAM, even if not, I'd be able to run many OS's virtually, far faster than I can run any single one on this beast natively :P[04:50:19] <scanty> hehe what do you need 8 cores for?[04:50:46] <bikedude880> What don't you need 8 cores for :P[04:50:58] <JonathanThompson> scanty, when I bought this machine (or mostly, since I had to replace the original model motherboard with another one when the first one died) people at work were asking me, "Jonathan, what are you going to do with 256 megs RAM?"[04:51:21] <JonathanThompson> After all, I was getting a system more powerful than their corporate servers, for personal use.[04:51:29] <JonathanThompson> Surely there was no logical reason to do THAT![04:51:41] <JonathanThompson> This was back in 99, of course, for perspective.[04:51:43] <scanty> haha[04:51:53] <scanty> well I hope this 8 core job lasts you a looong time.[04:52:00] <JonathanThompson> So, are you going to ask me again? :P[04:52:11] <scanty> probably.[04:52:12] <scanty> :P[04:53:01] <JonathanThompson> scanty, perhaps I'll run various Windows mutations, Syllable, SkyOS, Haiku, Linux, etc. all at the same time, and pick and choose at random which I want to use at any given time, without rebooting :P[04:53:41] <scanty> haha[04:54:12] <JonathanThompson> I won't bother with anything less than 4 GB RAM to start when I get the next system.[04:54:22] <JonathanThompson> I might decide to spring for 8, I don't know.[04:54:29] <bikedude880> x38 chipset :P[04:54:41] <JonathanThompson> That's not dual Xeon compatible, bikedude880.[04:54:46] <bikedude880> True...[04:54:50] <scanty> so it's 64-bit[04:54:51] <scanty> ?[04:54:55] <scanty> the 8-core job?[04:54:58] <JonathanThompson> Yes, I'll be getting Xeons.[04:55:00] <bikedude880> Also doesn't support SLI, the bastards...[04:55:10] <JonathanThompson> I won't buy a new 32 bit-only processor at this time.[04:55:25] <JonathanThompson> (Not for a PC or a laptop)[04:56:07] * JonathanThompson wonders if it'll even be a year after Haiku is released as 32 bit that there'll be a 64 bit mutation[04:56:39] <JonathanThompson> Of course, I'm not crazy enough to put a release date on a 1.0 final Haiku release...[04:56:54] <bikedude880> Heh[04:57:07] <bikedude880> Ooh shit...[04:57:18] <bikedude880> Kernel crashed XD[04:57:26] * JonathanThompson detects an intersection between a sewer system and a ventilation system[04:58:26] <pyCube> hmm.. qt designer 4 is nice too[04:59:07] <pyCube> i even played with qthread earlier.. hehe :-p[05:00:03] *** acidx has quit IRC[05:11:06] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[05:24:15] *** mmadia has quit IRC[05:24:20] <bikedude880> Ah... now the fun part...[05:24:53] <bikedude880> Trying to dd the raw hd image to a partition that already contains a BeOS install[05:25:17] <umccullough> why is that any different than otherwise?[05:25:25] <JonathanThompson> Seems you're making it harder than it needs to be.[05:25:33] <bikedude880> Yeah, I know[05:25:49] <JonathanThompson> I'd create first the BeOS install partition, and with that, then create another BFS partition from within BeOS.[05:25:50] <bikedude880> I don't have much space to play around with though[05:25:51] <umccullough> dd doesn't care what was on the partition prior[05:26:04] <umccullough> bikedude880, haiku needs like 500mb at most[05:26:10] <JonathanThompson> But, he's copying (I believe) from the BeOS partiition.[05:26:23] <umccullough> you can build haiku from a 4gb beos partition[05:26:28] <umccullough> so, less than 5gb total[05:26:56] <umccullough> maybe even a 3gb beos partition and a 256mb haiku partition if you're really tight[05:27:08] <JonathanThompson> Unless you're building the whole Mozilla suite, that should be more than large enough for all BeOS/Haiku software, period.[05:27:38] <umccullough> haiku source is like 1gb on disk (using SVN)[05:28:03] <umccullough> maybe 800mb[05:31:31] <pyCube> neat.. building standalone binary versions of my pyqt4 app work..[05:32:20] <pyCube> bundles up all the libs and whatnot into a single executable[05:33:05] * scanty wonders how big the bundle is :)[05:33:14] <pyCube> ~4mb[05:33:37] <scanty> that's big..... unlesss it'a a big app[05:33:38] <scanty> I dunno.[05:33:39] <scanty> ^_^[05:33:55] <pyCube> its almost all libs[05:34:04] <pyCube> the code part is tiny.. even if its a big app[05:34:05] <pyCube> hehe[05:34:16] <scanty> ah[05:34:17] <pyCube> i dunno 4-5 megs is totally acceptable[05:34:20] <scanty> so they're statically linked in?[05:34:25] <pyCube> yeah[05:35:02] <scanty> bleh[05:35:04] <Perndog98> hey so anybody saying any haiku's?[05:35:05] <bikedude880> 5 minutes from hoping that the BeOS loader will recognize both installs :D[05:35:17] <umccullough> eh?[05:35:25] <pyCube> 5 megs exec beats the hell out of trying to get people to install python and qt4 and whatever other 3rd party libs i might use[05:35:30] <umccullough> if you just dd'd over your beos install, you screwed it[05:35:49] <bikedude880> umccullough: I'm re-running the installer and making a second partition[05:35:56] <umccullough> uh[05:35:59] <umccullough> ok[05:36:13] <umccullough> bikedude880, did you build it in beos?[05:36:30] <bikedude880> Define "it"[05:36:36] *** Perndog98 has left #haiku[05:36:39] <umccullough> did you build Haiku in beos?[05:36:44] <bikedude880> No[05:36:49] <umccullough> i see...[05:36:54] <bikedude880> I'm going to start off with a raw hd image[05:36:59] <bikedude880> dd it over[05:37:13] <bikedude880> Hence the two partitions[05:37:17] <umccullough> i guess i'm confused - dd destroys the target[05:37:42] <umccullough> why bother formatting the target partition at all?[05:37:56] <scanty> yah, dd writes raw anyway.[05:37:58] <scanty> so it shouldn't matter[05:38:36] <umccullough> bootman doesn't "detect" beos partitions... it just chainloads[05:39:19] <bikedude880> http://beosmax.org/wiki/index.php/An_Easy_Guide_to_Install_Haiku[05:39:25] <bikedude880> Easier than dd[05:39:37] <umccullough> you said you dd'd it[05:39:43] <bikedude880> I said I was going to[05:40:08] <umccullough> why, didn't the copy work?[05:40:21] <bikedude880> I haven't done it yet, hence "going to"[05:40:26] <scanty> JonathanThompson, are you still around?[05:40:36] <umccullough> um...[05:40:49] <umccullough> either you're confused about what "dd" is, or, i'm missing some significant point here[05:41:05] <bikedude880> I think you're just confused[05:41:10] <umccullough> i guess[05:41:17] * bikedude880 hasn't been too clear[05:41:30] <umccullough> copying files from bfs to bfs has absolutely nothing to do with dd[05:42:33] <umccullough> but anywa, i've got better things to do than ponder what others are doing on their hard drives - so ttyl[05:42:40] <JonathanThompson> Nope, I've faded into obscurity again, scanty :P[05:43:02] <scanty> JonathanThompson, if I send you a HD in the mail, do you think you can install BeOS R5 onto it for me with the IDE replacement drivers?[05:43:25] <JonathanThompson> I must say, that's the most unusual question I've been asked in awhile :P[05:43:34] <JonathanThompson> I expect I could.[05:43:37] <scanty> well, I currently have no means to get R5 onto my P4 system[05:43:44] <scanty> because the CD won't boot.[05:44:02] <JonathanThompson> Have you looked at using VMWare or VPC?[05:44:11] <Yaroze> scanty: install it with a Virtual Machine[05:44:15] <JonathanThompson> I know I got BeOS to run using VPC on the Kubotek laptop.[05:44:24] <scanty> nono, I want to run it natively[05:44:32] <Yaroze> u can install it to a real harddrive using vmware[05:44:37] <scanty> oh really?[05:44:58] <scanty> but how will I get the IDE drivers on there[05:44:58] <JonathanThompson> And it won't be running in a VMWare machine after that?[05:45:04] <scanty> since I don't think network is supported[05:45:56] <JonathanThompson> What's the size of your hard drive, scanty?[05:45:58] <Yaroze> Compact Disc? :D[05:46:21] <scanty> JonathanThompson, either 20 or 30 GB[05:46:25] <scanty> err, 40[05:46:30] <scanty> I ahve to check what I have downstairs.[05:46:33] <JonathanThompson> Ok, I had to ask, because this is such an old machine :P[05:46:33] *** Cube-ness has quit IRC[05:46:49] <scanty> I might want to dual boot winxp on it in 30GB, and have BeOS in the other 10GB[05:46:57] <JonathanThompson> The 250 GB drive it currently has is less than half used for availability due to BIOS issues.[05:47:01] <scanty> since I don't really need that much space in BeOS since I'm going to be dev mosty.[05:47:04] <scanty> mostly*[05:47:33] * JonathanThompson wonders if Haiku would run on scanty's box currently[05:48:06] <Yaroze> worth a try[05:48:26] <JonathanThompson> I'm thinking that perhaps if it does, you could springboard from that and copy BeOS over.[05:48:47] <scanty> oh that is an idea.[05:48:52] <JonathanThompson> Since Haiku is certainly not ready at this time for anything beyond testers to report bugs, and developers to fix them :)[05:48:53] <Yaroze> doesnt Max BeOS have the needed drivers?[05:48:57] <scanty> is it easy to install haiku to aa hard drive[05:49:02] <scanty> Yaroze, yeah it does, but I dont' want BeOS Max[05:49:10] <JonathanThompson> If you have a way to dd it, sure.[05:49:11] <Yaroze> scanty: well steal the drivers then[05:49:29] <Yaroze> boot it, install BeOS and copy the Max drivers :)[05:49:41] <JonathanThompson> I'm guessing you have a way to run Linux on that box easily?[05:49:53] <JonathanThompson> (No partitions to worry about preserving)[05:49:59] <scanty> Im running linux currently.[05:50:08] <JonathanThompson> Should be an easy thing, then.[05:50:23] <scanty> okay, maybe you can help me out this weekend?[05:50:31] <JonathanThompson> It's been awhile :P[05:51:01] <scanty> heh[05:51:04] * JonathanThompson has Haiku from last year on a partition that he's not booted since he last filed bug reports[05:51:07] <scanty> maybe I'll just mail you that hard drive then.[05:51:38] <JonathanThompson> I wonder how readily you can mount a BeOS install CD from Haiku...[05:51:54] <scanty> or if haiku won't crap out whilst installing BeOS[05:52:08] <JonathanThompson> That's entirely possible.[05:52:13] <JonathanThompson> Luposian Bug or not.[05:52:22] <JonathanThompson> (Which sounds like it was finally fixed)[06:14:42] *** scanty has quit IRC[06:15:40] *** bikedude880 has quit IRC[06:25:29] *** kokito has joined #haiku[06:30:44] *** LeandroLuiz has quit IRC[06:55:24] *** Darknesss has quit IRC[06:56:45] *** Darknesss has joined #haiku[07:04:45] *** Darknesss has quit IRC[07:19:21] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[07:23:59] *** __ToddB__ has joined #haiku[07:29:19] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[07:32:37] *** nielx has joined #haiku[07:35:29] <Begasus> morning peeps[07:40:59] *** kad77 has joined #haiku[07:48:37] *** absabs has joined #haiku[08:06:17] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[08:41:11] *** frodobeg25 has quit IRC[08:48:22] <Sikosis> have a good weekend everybody ... be good ...[08:48:26] *** Sikosis has quit IRC[09:02:17] *** kokito has quit IRC[09:05:08] *** mat_geek has left #haiku[09:07:55] *** joltz has quit IRC[09:17:53] *** Kernel86_ has joined #Haiku[09:17:53] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[09:18:06] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[09:24:00] *** Begasus has quit IRC[09:29:18] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[09:31:27] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[09:33:17] *** pyCube has quit IRC[09:34:06] *** mats has joined #haiku[09:34:28] *** __ToddB__ has quit IRC[09:38:46] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[09:39:04] *** emitrax has quit IRC[09:39:11] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[09:48:21] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[09:52:42] *** mode2 has quit IRC[09:58:36] <CIA-5> jackburton * r22511 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/stylededit/StyledEditWindow.cpp:[09:58:36] <CIA-5> StyledEdit didn't print anything if there's only one line (bug #1288).[09:58:36] <CIA-5> Note, though, that printing in StyledEdit is still very much broken.[09:58:36] <CIA-5> Often it prints only the current page, for example.[09:59:23] *** Judgen has joined #haiku[10:02:27] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[10:02:30] <Stargater> moin[10:07:22] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[10:07:34] <plfiorini> hi[10:09:38] <Judgen> anyone using osx atm?[10:09:46] <Judgen> or to be more exact colloquy[10:22:30] <Judgen> not very talkative today huh?[10:47:14] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[10:47:15] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton[10:47:18] <JBurton> hi all[10:47:33] <absabs> hi[10:53:11] <plfiorini> hi[10:57:21] *** Judgen has quit IRC[11:02:08] <JBurton> ciao plfiorini[11:02:19] *** absabs has quit IRC[11:04:36] <plfiorini> ciao JBurton[11:04:43] <plfiorini> i love friday!!![11:06:06] <JBurton> yeah me too :)[11:16:38] *** Hoern has joined #Haiku[11:23:54] *** Stargater has quit IRC[11:31:24] *** Judgen has joined #haiku[11:44:34] <CIA-5> jackburton * r22512 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/TermView.cpp: Check keys against "raw_char" instead of "key"[11:44:53] *** Judgen has left #haiku[11:53:14] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[12:23:54] <CIA-5> axeld * r22513 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/ (5 files in 2 dirs):[12:23:54] <CIA-5> Started working on a test application for the scheduler; it uses the scheduler[12:23:54] <CIA-5> of the kernel directly, and emulates the kernel's API where necessary.[12:23:54] <CIA-5> Not complete at all yet, but I already found one serious bug in our current[12:23:54] <CIA-5> scheduler with it :-)[12:26:03] <CIA-5> axeld * r22514 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/thread.cpp: Removed the "next_*" in queue debugger commands.[12:29:11] <CIA-5> axeld * r22515 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/scheduler.cpp: (log message trimmed)[12:29:11] <CIA-5> * The loop that should select a thread of the next priority class actually did[12:29:11] <CIA-5> not work; it would always choose the last thread of the current priority.[12:29:11] <CIA-5> IOW a thread was never skipped, and lower priority threads were never called[12:29:11] <CIA-5> when a higher priority thread was running - from the POV of the scheduler,[12:29:14] <CIA-5> we only has real time threads...[12:29:15] <CIA-5> * Improved "run_queue" KDL output.[12:30:03] *** Penix has quit IRC[12:49:39] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku[12:59:39] *** acidx has joined #haiku[12:59:52] * JonathanThompson laughs wildly into the channel[13:02:10] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:02:11] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[13:06:38] *** Hoern has quit IRC[13:07:01] *** judgenquireiras has joined #haiku[13:07:44] *** judgenquireiras is now known as judgen[13:19:06] *** JBurton has quit IRC[13:24:13] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku[13:31:40] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC[13:35:41] *** Darknesss has joined #haiku[13:58:32] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[14:01:09] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[14:06:10] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[14:11:29] *** judgen has left #haiku[14:19:01] * plfiorini cries wildly into the channel becase there are still 4 hours of work left[14:20:04] <Ingenu> yeah[14:20:09] <Ingenu> 4 hours stuck at work[14:20:20] <Ingenu> doesn't necessarily mean doing anything useful though...[14:30:17] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[14:38:10] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC[14:55:29] *** TuneTracker has quit IRC[15:07:19] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[15:09:14] * DeadYak pets mmadia[15:10:40] * mmadia hands yak a cup of beverage[15:12:11] * mmadia doesn't have work today *grin*[15:12:23] <DeadYak> you suck :P[15:12:23] *** nielx has joined #haiku[15:12:26] <DeadYak> mm, beverage[15:12:27] <nielx> hola[15:12:42] <mmadia> greetings[15:12:53] <nielx> Thom_Holwerda: are you going to Eindhoven this weekend?[15:17:11] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[15:18:41] <Thom_Holwerda> nielx: nope, sorry[15:27:45] <nielx> too bad :-)[15:28:34] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[15:40:20] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[15:54:22] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[15:54:31] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[15:57:02] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku[16:00:23] *** mode2 has joined #haiku[16:01:50] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[16:02:35] <mmu_man> plop[16:02:38] <mmu_man> urnenfeld hi[16:02:41] <mmu_man> dr_evil[16:03:34] <dr_evil> http://www.theonion.com/content/video/use_of_n_word_may_end_porn_stars[16:03:37] <dr_evil> hi mmu_man[16:03:55] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[16:04:21] <dr_evil> I feel tired[16:05:11] <DeadYak> oh, theonion[16:05:50] *** magnetron has joined #haiku[16:05:53] <mmu_man> peel off the news[16:07:06] <mmu_man> hmm couldn't get a working m68k-apple-elf-gcc -([16:07:16] <mmu_man> it bailed when trying to make crt files[16:08:49] <urnenfeld> hi mmu_man ! ;)[16:09:11] <urnenfeld> mmu_man: werent u the vnc porter?[16:09:47] <mmu_man> hmm I ported a server once, never really finished (BeVNC)[16:09:54] <mmu_man> and I made some chanegs on VNCViewer[16:10:15] <urnenfeld> ever tested in haiku that version ?[16:10:48] <mmu_man> don't think so[16:12:49] <urnenfeld> aham, its about that redstonesoftware contact we did in the norcal meeting[16:14:12] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[16:16:24] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[16:16:48] <Lelldorin1> hi all[16:21:12] <plfiorini> mmm didn't remember where i found the easy tasks[16:21:28] *** MangoFusion has joined #haiku[16:22:17] <plfiorini> found![16:29:57] <kad77> mmu_man: VNC for haiku would rock; I use vnc daily[16:35:17] <mmu_man> well existing servers should work[16:35:19] <mmu_man> they are just slow[16:35:38] <mmu_man> urnenfeld commercial company interested in haiku ?[16:35:57] <kad77> the gui thing?[16:36:21] <mmu_man> you mean ?[16:36:34] <mmu_man> clients should work as well[16:36:51] <mmu_man> brb[16:38:07] <plfiorini> ca[16:38:31] <plfiorini> although not directly related to haiku, can you install zeta 1.2 on a 2gb machine?[16:39:34] <plfiorini> it would be cool to install zeta on my computer to create, format, ... befs partion and for example copy files from haiku image or boot a beos in real hw[16:39:50] <kad77> mkfs for haiku would be cooler. :D[16:40:25] <plfiorini> even disk setup, installer, fully working kernel and gui, killer applications, million of users, ...[16:40:27] <plfiorini> :D[16:41:06] <kad77> some day, it will happen. the userbase may take a bit longer, but who knows[16:41:48] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[16:41:53] *** brlcad has joined #haiku[16:42:02] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[16:45:56] <Lelldorin1> plfiorini: i have a system with 2 gb ram, zeta runs perfect[16:46:24] *** meisje has joined #haiku[16:47:54] <plfiorini> Lelldorin1: ok then i think it's another problem, it hangs on the splash screen or gives a kdl[16:48:35] <plfiorini> amd 64 x2, 2gb ram, nforce 4 sata, ide cdrom, sata and sata2 disks[16:48:47] <Lelldorin1> plfiorini: laptop or pc? i have problem witrh usb2 on my leptop, so the system doesnot run there[16:48:56] <plfiorini> Lelldorin1: pc[16:49:18] <plfiorini> that's the lspichttp://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1544[16:49:24] <plfiorini> lspci -> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1544[16:49:51] <plfiorini> sata should be supported and even if it's a 64bit dual core it should run 32bit software[16:50:22] <Lelldorin1> yes i have a amd 64 too and sata drives[16:50:44] <plfiorini> i will try disabling a lot of stuff from the boot menu, for example bios, dma, user addons, ...[16:51:06] <Lelldorin1> yes this will be a good move[16:51:34] <plfiorini> 16mb for the integrated geforce 6150 should be good[16:51:50] <Lelldorin1> i have run haiku on my harddisk and it runs too, but my mouse will not supported[16:52:34] <plfiorini> damn! i bought an unsupported controller i think :([16:52:59] <Lelldorin1> :-(+[16:53:08] <plfiorini> i am happy to have an old computer so once i got a new power supply it will run zeta and haiku[16:53:25] <dr_evil> plfiorini http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1544#comment:1[16:56:25] <plfiorini> i think i've tried[16:56:39] <plfiorini> but i will try when i'll be at home[16:56:42] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku[16:57:04] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku[17:10:56] *** __ToddB__ has joined #haiku[17:11:56] *** rdmr has quit IRC[17:12:09] *** __ToddB__ has quit IRC[17:13:24] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[17:13:33] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[17:14:56] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[17:26:39] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku[17:34:08] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[17:34:57] *** rdmr has quit IRC[17:37:04] *** kad77 has quit IRC[17:38:56] *** wildur has quit IRC[17:38:57] *** mode2 has quit IRC[17:48:30] *** mode2 has joined #haiku[17:53:25] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[17:56:07] *** rdmr has quit IRC[17:56:11] <CIA-5> axeld * r22516 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Cleanup.[17:59:57] <CIA-5> axeld * r22517 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs):[17:59:57] <CIA-5> Started a create_display_modes() function that should be used by accelerants[17:59:57] <CIA-5> to create their mode list. Once it's done, it should cover all possible cases,[17:59:57] <CIA-5> and allow the base mode list to reside in the app_server (under Haiku, at least),[17:59:57] <CIA-5> so that all drivers will benefit from an updated list.[17:59:58] <CIA-5> Right now, it might already work to a degree, but it's not yet tested.[18:00:07] *** mode2 has quit IRC[18:02:12] * wasosa__ is back (gone 15:24:56)[18:02:17] * wasosa__ is away: going home[18:02:21] * wasosa__ is back (gone 00:00:01)[18:08:25] *** frodobeg25 has joined #haiku[18:08:43] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[18:17:59] *** numbah has quit IRC[18:21:41] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[18:28:41] *** etteyafed has joined #haiku[18:30:56] <etteyafed> I didn't know that the Proliant DL380s came with forced induction systems. But they do. And their IDE controllers aren't supported by the Linux 2.6 kernels.[18:36:14] <etteyafed> Really I don't see what is so hard about including a standard ATA/33/66/100 controller on the board. If there is going to be a controller why not make it a standard one. The thing won't support fixed disks or anything over UDMA/25. Terrible waste of my time trying to figure out if the drive or controller were faulty. But nope, works just fine with a 2.4 kernel.[18:36:23] *** numbah has joined #haiku[18:38:46] *** LeandroLuiz has quit IRC[18:46:41] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[18:49:25] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22518 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/string/ (memmove.c strchr.c): Patch by Vasilis Kaoutsis: Style cleanup.[18:49:59] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22519 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/poll.c: Patch by Vasilis Kaoutsis: Correctly set errno on error.[18:50:28] <CIA-5> axeld * r22520 /haiku/trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)[18:50:28] <CIA-5> * Started accelerant extension to be able to get the preferred mode from[18:50:28] <CIA-5> the accelerant, as well as its EDID info. B_GET_PREFERRED_DISPLAY_MODE and[18:50:28] <CIA-5> B_GET_EDID_INFO are both optional. The preferred mode will be taken from the[18:50:28] <CIA-5> EDID info if only the latter hook is implemented, or the former returned an[18:50:28] *** pyCube has quit IRC[18:50:29] <CIA-5> error.[18:50:32] <CIA-5> * Currently, the app_server should correctly set the preferred mode on start,[18:50:57] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[18:52:34] <mmu_man> why not add multi screen support too ? :)[18:52:39] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[18:54:51] *** kokito has joined #haiku[18:55:14] <kokito> good morning folks[18:57:40] *** BePower has joined #haiku[18:58:03] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[19:00:45] *** genkie has joined #haiku[19:01:06] *** genkie has quit IRC[19:01:34] <brlcad> howdy mmadia[19:01:47] <brlcad> oops, wrong tab-completion[19:02:11] * brlcad wonders who were the guys at the summit[19:11:58] <kokito> brlcad: stippi, oliver and ryan[19:16:12] <brlcad> kokito: ah, thanks![19:16:14] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[19:17:22] <brlcad> is ryan the guy that did the icons and color palette?[19:18:06] <brlcad> I think he's the guy I spent most of the time talking to, pretty cool guy[19:22:39] <kokito> brlcad, ryan is porting the webkit to haiku[19:22:57] <kokito> the icons were made by stippi[19:23:13] <kokito> and oliver is working on a bluetooth stack for haiku[19:23:29] <kokito> brlcad, were you at the summit?[19:28:30] <brlcad> yeah[19:28:42] <brlcad> talked for a while with one guy in particular, I suppose it was stippi[19:29:54] <brlcad> didn't get to talk to him until the day after, so I didn't know his irc nick -- just recall his face[19:30:11] *** Judgen has joined #haiku[19:30:20] <kokito> brlcad, the day after, at the Wild Palms?[19:30:31] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[19:30:32] <brlcad> yeah[19:30:33] * kokito wonders if he knows brlcad[19:30:39] <brlcad> were you there?[19:30:40] <kokito> I was there too brlcad[19:30:43] <kokito> yes :)[19:30:45] <brlcad> ooh![19:30:48] <brlcad> then maybe it as you![19:30:54] <kokito> LOL[19:31:09] <brlcad> over by the pool?[19:31:25] <kokito> yes[19:31:32] <kokito> hold on[19:31:32] <brlcad> okay, makes more sense[19:31:39] <brlcad> so you guys had four folks there?[19:31:50] <brlcad> or those real names you mentioned[19:32:16] <kokito> http://norcal-hug.org/?q=image/gsoc-2007-haiku-mentor-appreciation-day/jorge-and-travis[19:32:21] <brlcad> one guy with dark hair didn't get to talk to[19:32:27] <kokito> I'm the old guy to the left[19:32:47] <kokito> that was maybe Oliver; he is the quiet type :)[19:32:53] <urnenfeld> :)))[19:33:03] <brlcad> hrm.. it wasn't you :)[19:33:11] <urnenfeld> who are you then brlcad i am confused[19:33:25] <brlcad> urnenfeld: I was there for BZFlag[19:33:49] <brlcad> all three of us were coding by the pool the day after (well two of us were coding, the other was just chilling)[19:33:50] *** oco has joined #haiku[19:34:15] <urnenfeld> ahh ahhh yes i met with you just when u departed i think...[19:34:39] *** aphedox has quit IRC[19:34:42] *** aphedox has joined #haiku[19:35:00] <brlcad> you have the dark black hair or the light reddish hair?[19:35:42] <urnenfeld> black hair :) the other is Stippi :)[19:36:12] <urnenfeld> http://norcal-hug.org/?q=image/gsoc-2007-haiku-mentor-appreciation-day/whole-group-%28except-me%29[19:36:21] <urnenfeld> there you will indentify us better :)[19:37:00] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[19:37:25] <brlcad> ah yeah, that helps[19:37:50] <brlcad> and now stephan rings a bell better ..[19:37:55] <urnenfeld> :)))[19:38:00] <brlcad> awesome, so you guys had five guys there[19:38:22] <urnenfeld> well as mentors we were 3... but other north california people joined us[19:38:23] <brlcad> all for haiku, or multiple projects and happen to also be haiku folks?[19:38:28] <brlcad> gotcha[19:38:37] *** joltz has joined #haiku[19:38:58] <urnenfeld> i also bet was stephan as i was making the checkout and was busy with the suitcases[19:39:03] <brlcad> we had a couple devs that work over at vmware, but we just went out to get beers with them beforehand[19:39:10] <brlcad> contemplated having them try to just show up[19:39:37] <brlcad> yeah, I see him now -- definitely was stephan/stippi[19:39:51] <brlcad> you showed up right as we were rushing off to the airport[19:40:39] <brlcad> er, to checkout then to airport .. we were a bit late from chatting as it was[19:41:12] <urnenfeld> so what are you doing in these lands ? some coding ? :)[19:41:35] <brlcad> i've been in here several times before :)[19:41:36] *** Haicube has joined #haiku[19:42:01] <urnenfeld> ohh[19:42:10] *** rgb has joined #haiku[19:42:15] *** nielx has quit IRC[19:42:38] <brlcad> got a few bug reports in and fixed, someone helped with a few networking issues like a year ago in particular that took a few days to bug hunt[19:42:55] <urnenfeld> all we ended having more connection than what we expected[19:45:20] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[19:46:37] <brlcad> yeah, quite an event[19:46:54] <brlcad> was talking with someone almost the entire time, and didn't even meet a third of the folks that attended[19:47:20] <brlcad> nice to see a few guys again that I usually see at siggraph though[19:49:58] *** BePower has quit IRC[19:50:13] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[19:53:13] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku[19:57:16] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[19:57:25] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku[19:59:21] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[20:03:18] *** tic has quit IRC[20:04:43] *** tic has joined #haiku[20:06:41] *** TuneTracker has joined #Haiku[20:06:55] <TuneTracker> Wow, 82 people in here![20:07:01] <TuneTracker> That's the most I think I have ever seen![20:07:10] *** genkie has joined #haiku[20:09:06] <kokito> 83[20:10:33] <dr_evil> bye[20:10:45] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[20:17:48] <etteyafed> 82[20:17:52] <etteyafed> ;)[20:18:37] <etteyafed> We should get a bot in here. That might be fun. There is a nice ruby bot in some ruby channel[20:19:49] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[20:23:49] <etteyafed> ping[20:24:06] *** alpha-li1n has joined #haiku[20:24:39] *** etteyafed has quit IRC[20:24:49] *** etteyafed has joined #haiku[20:25:23] *** kad77 has joined #haiku[20:28:34] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[20:29:25] <emitrax> hi[20:29:57] <Mazon> etteyafed: there are already bot(s) in here...[20:31:23] *** Hoern has joined #Haiku[20:31:38] <emitrax> 87 ;)[20:31:53] <etteyafed> I know. I want an inter-active channel bot. Not like CIA. I mean just a tool bot. To preread links, do message watching and such. Well I can live without it anyhow.[20:32:06] <emitrax> some statics of the chan would be nice[20:32:19] <etteyafed> yeah, that kind of stuff.[20:33:37] <Mazon> there already is ...[20:33:52] <Mazon> check topic[20:34:54] <etteyafed> Thanks, I have been using IRC for the last 10 years and didn't know about topic ;)[20:35:34] <Mazon> http://echelog.matzon.dk/?haiku - message watching, http://echelog.matzon.dk/stats/haiku.html stats[20:39:16] <etteyafed> I think that emitrax and I are refering to an *in-channel* or *on-irc* type of interface.[20:40:23] <Mazon> meh, that'll just lead to spamming[20:41:51] <etteyafed> It could. The bot would have to be very well behaved and setup to not vomit on the channel. Any remotely verbose communication with it would need to be done in private messages.[20:41:58] *** alpha-lion has quit IRC[20:42:04] *** alpha-li1n is now known as alpha-lion[20:42:10] <Mazon> true[20:44:05] *** agony__ has quit IRC[20:44:22] <etteyafed> It is not a real need. I just thought it would be neat. It could be done in such a way that would not be intrusive. However I didn't want to bring a bot in here not knowing the policy on such things. It would be rather rude.[20:45:22] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[20:46:15] *** M199 is now known as Master199[20:47:25] <etteyafed> info[20:47:29] <etteyafed> sorry[20:51:05] <Haicube> What is it with the american patent system?[20:51:13] <brlcad> etteyafed: apt/ibot/jbot is probably one of the most extensive bots on freenode[20:51:52] <brlcad> already runs in dozens of major channels, can talk to tim to have it added if others are interested[20:52:19] <etteyafed> brlcad: Do you know of a channel that it can be found in? I don't really need a huge set of features, just some basic stuff.[20:52:20] <brlcad> massive knowledge database and lots of useful/amuzing/interesting command hooks with automatic logging[20:52:39] <brlcad> CV on riker: http://www.utosc.org/speakers/tim-riker[20:53:01] <brlcad> etteyafed: yeah, can join #bzflag or #botpark[20:53:43] <brlcad> or just /msg ibot[20:55:27] <brlcad> probably most renowned as the debian 'apt' bot or maybe ibot[20:58:20] *** SprMa has quit IRC[21:01:14] <emitrax> how do I *switch* a svn working copy of haiku from anonymous to members?[21:01:32] <emitrax> I tried with svn switch svn+shh... but it does not work[21:04:26] *** genkie has quit IRC[21:04:46] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC[21:11:28] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku[21:14:23] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[21:20:26] *** lorglas has quit IRC[21:22:16] *** rdmr has quit IRC[21:24:01] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[21:24:24] <plfiorini> hi[21:24:26] <plfiorini> just a question....[21:24:28] <plfiorini> i'm looking at some haiku preflets for font sensitivity problems[21:25:11] <plfiorini> background preferences app, the right box has a Image menufield[21:25:50] <plfiorini> i noticed that the code does resizetopreferred() and the menufield takes the size of the default entry (which is a long name)[21:26:02] <plfiorini> and draws outside the box with font 18[21:27:16] <plfiorini> the rect passed to the bmenufield constructor is right, so the question is: is it right that the resizetopreferred() doesn't take into account the rect?[21:33:20] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[21:33:34] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[21:39:19] <etteyafed> So if i run a blootbot form my computer it will join any channel i tell it to and me my botslave ;)[21:39:39] <etteyafed> wrong channel sorry[21:42:40] * JonathanThompson burps into the channel[21:43:20] *** stargater has joined #haiku[21:43:23] <stargater> hi[21:43:26] <plfiorini> prot[21:43:33] <plfiorini> hi stargater[21:43:48] <stargater> hi plfiorini[21:44:24] <plfiorini> damn jam doesn't recompile my changes[21:44:33] <plfiorini> i wonder what i've done wrong ![21:44:42] <etteyafed> hello JonathanThompson.[21:44:56] <JonathanThompson> Greetings, etteyafed, plfiorini, insane asylum in general :)[21:45:11] <stargater> JonathanThompson: and i ?[21:45:20] <plfiorini> hello JonathanThompson![21:45:33] <JonathanThompson> I guess you'd fall into that definition until you made it known you were active, stargater :P[21:45:41] * JonathanThompson dials a bunch of chevrons for stargater[21:45:45] <plfiorini> gotta go[21:45:47] *** plfiorini is now known as pl_away[21:45:56] <stargater> :-)[21:46:29] <JonathanThompson> If you're lucky, they don't lead directly to a black hole, a sun about to go supernova, a replicator planet, or a wraith planet :)[21:46:58] <JonathanThompson> Or to an Ori-infested place, either.[21:51:28] *** BePower has joined #haiku[21:51:39] <pyCube> worse yet.. a Planet Hollywood[21:51:50] * JonathanThompson falls over from shock[21:51:51] *** nielx has joined #haiku[21:52:09] *** nielx has quit IRC[21:52:23] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku[21:55:39] <etteyafed> How do prople feel about blootbot?[21:55:48] <Haicube> blootbot?[21:57:21] * JonathanThompson hopes it isn't a binary vampire[21:58:22] <etteyafed> Just another interactive IRC bot w/www search html parseing loging and many other features.[21:58:24] <pyCube> blootbrot[21:58:37] <kad77> i prefer blootoh[21:58:51] <pyCube> man.. if irc servers dispensed brot.. mmmm[21:59:15] <kad77> brats don't translate to digital well[21:59:34] <JonathanThompson> Likely to lose something in the translation, as they're analog by nature :)[21:59:35] <pyCube> i prefer brot[22:00:04] <Haicube> I don't really care ^^[22:00:19] <pyCube> does it matter[22:00:19] <Haicube> If I'd want a bot, I'd go get me a terminator =)[22:00:20] <pyCube> ?[22:00:39] * JonathanThompson hands Haicube a SCSI terminator to start from[22:00:50] <kad77> 50 pins babee[22:00:59] <Haicube> Cheers[22:01:06] <JonathanThompson> What? You aren't using 68 or 80 pin cables yet?[22:01:12] * JonathanThompson notes Haicube is out of date[22:01:14] <kad77> i'm all about the 80s[22:01:23] <Haicube> I don't even use SCSI dude... I'm into the SATA crap I believe[22:01:42] <kad77> well with SAS it comes full circle, dunit?[22:02:03] <JonathanThompson> The biggest practical problem long-term is that not all OS's I might want to work with support decent SCSI controllers that are now available.[22:02:29] <Haicube> Because of the OS or because of the vendors?[22:02:36] * kad77 is literally compiling LSI megariad into a linux kernel right now[22:02:37] <JonathanThompson> That, and these days, with hard drive capacities, there's not a really great reason to get SCSI, especially with the other options available.[22:03:02] <Haicube> Well, scsi is great as far as I know, except for pricing... aren't they like killing themselves with the pricing they use?[22:03:10] <kad77> JT: well, there are financial reasons. SAS/SCSI is way higher $ per MB[22:03:27] <JonathanThompson> Well, regardless of whether the vendors provide data or not, if the OS can't boot from SCSI or the driver isn't available, it makes no practical difference at that point, unless you feel like writing the driver AND have the information at hand.[22:03:39] <JonathanThompson> That's a good reason these days, too, kad77.[22:04:03] <kad77> If you want reliability, the price is reasonable for business. Although some SATA drives are claiming 1mil MBFT now[22:04:04] <JonathanThompson> There are valid reasons for the pricing, Haicube, in that you do tend to actually get better hardware.[22:04:08] <Haicube> feel like writing one? Dude, how about knowing how to first?[22:04:22] <kad77> i bought some drives with that claim + 5 year warranty rather inexpensively, but we'll see[22:04:27] <JonathanThompson> Ok, for a lot of people, that'd be a big show-stopper :P[22:04:30] <Haicube> JonathanThompson, well, 10x better HW? Seems pricing tend to be at about 10x the price...[22:04:49] * JonathanThompson thinks Haicube hasn't really looked at SCSI vs other pricing in too long[22:04:58] <Haicube> probably not[22:05:02] <Haicube> just remember it being expensive[22:05:31] <Haicube> anyway, I really don't care about that neither at this stage... just give me an external HDD rack with 5TB and I couldn't care less if it's USB2 or External SATA =)[22:05:35] <JonathanThompson> I have a long history with SCSI, and it was never THAT expensive for the same thing, assuming that non-SCSI had the equivalent.[22:05:36] <kad77> JT: i was saying in channel yesterday I found a great source of fairly new (one to two year old) hardware SAS/SATA raid controllers. PCIe[22:05:44] <kad77> $80 a piece (worth $350 new)[22:06:41] <Haicube> Or to be honest, HDD isn't really a problem at all for me these days... what I'd like is some decent OS to run and some really intelligent software on top ^^ .... now Haiku is getting closer, however the other software stuff is lagging behind =([22:06:44] <JonathanThompson> SCSI was one of the first external-sane hard drive interfaces.[22:06:55] <pyCube> scuzzy.. dirty low life[22:07:06] <JonathanThompson> But it gets the job done, pyCube :)[22:07:23] <Haicube> and if not that, my perverted distributed computing habbits rather brings me to Dual Quad Cores and stuff like that ^^[22:07:48] * JonathanThompson reminds himself to not let Haicube have access to his next box[22:08:21] <Haicube> don't worry dude... I got boxes, not the problem really... think I got about 4 boxes in the office and about 5 boxes at home... not really a problem.[22:08:32] <JonathanThompson> :)[22:08:33] <Haicube> Make that 5 in the office, forgot about one[22:08:49] <Haicube> and on top of that, I got some old Sun machine I don't know where to throw[22:09:00] <JonathanThompson> I wonder what the performance change of computers will be over the next 5 years.[22:09:30] <Haicube> expect them dual Quad cores to start dropping in next year, and after that I believe we'll see dual optocores in about 3-4 years from now...[22:10:02] <JonathanThompson> But, how much real performance will we get from 16 cores with all the other technical limitations, not counting software?[22:10:13] <Haicube> Then expect some more bloat to get produced to motivate a gigacore or something[22:10:50] <JonathanThompson> A friend of mine asked what are the weaknesses of my current system when I mentioned I'd be getting a new machine with server hardware.[22:11:04] <Haicube> JonathanThompson, well, think of it this way... imagine them datacentres who suddenly can decrease their energy consumption with loads by eliminating quite a few boxes and putting DB servers and HTTP servers on simply half of the boxes....[22:11:05] <pyCube> bloat has got to be one of the most easily tossed yet completely inaccurate terms around, these days[22:11:21] <pyCube> "can do more stuff" != bloat[22:11:27] <JonathanThompson> The conclusion I came to is that other than the keyboard and mouse, and (for a time) the CRT, everything has changed for the technology, and I can't possibly reuse much of anything attached to this computer.[22:12:06] <pyCube> i mean.. the way it gets used, you'd think that what people REALLY want is a c64, with quad xeon, 8 gig ram expansion[22:12:07] <Haicube> pyCube, well, I really don't see (at this current stage) what would need a dual optocore for an everyday user... HW hasn't been an issue for quite a while really[22:12:31] <JonathanThompson> I did forget to mention one possible weakness: I can't help but wonder when my system will die of old age and wear, if only from the electrical shocks it's had over its lifetime.[22:13:03] <kad77> yeah, its back to software. seen quite a few stalls the last few days on this machine. no errant processes, just buggy software[22:13:09] <Haicube> JonathanThompson, HDD failure seems to be the most common for me, along with memorys screwing up and the actual power supply...[22:13:23] <pyCube> Haicube: except that people do things like digital video and photography.. and expect lots of fancy effects and transitions.. and for it to be fast[22:13:28] * JonathanThompson wonders how many computers have been plugged in and powered on while running and gotten a direct lightning strike into house wiring, and are still in use[22:13:36] <Haicube> pyCube, True, but that's not the everyday user[22:13:44] <pyCube> its a lot of everyday users[22:13:49] <Haicube> pyCube, for Datacentres and Powerusers, more Ghz and Cores will be more than welcome[22:14:00] <Haicube> pyCube, I'd call that poweruser really...[22:14:07] <pyCube> not anymore[22:14:08] * JonathanThompson wonders what sort of user he'd be classified as :)[22:14:13] *** Lola has joined #haiku[22:14:20] <Haicube> pyCube, definition error 404.... =)[22:14:27] <Haicube> JonathanThompson, Lunatic user?[22:14:41] <JonathanThompson> :)[22:14:54] <JonathanThompson> Where in the scale does that fit, Haicube? :)[22:15:34] * JonathanThompson awaits the answer[22:15:48] <Haicube> pyCube, either way, consider it this way. say 60% of all comps are somehow driven by "companies" as in desktop usage. Their HW needs are really satisfied by now. What you talking about the fancy stuff, that hardly increase productivity I'd say. Hence, I doubt it really motivates "upgrading" beyond current HW failing....[22:16:02] <pyCube> i'll admit.. i dont use anywhere near the dual amd64 cou that i have here[22:16:09] <pyCube> cpu[22:16:30] * JonathanThompson awaits the answer[22:16:33] <Haicube> JonathanThompson, I guess somewhere beyond Poweruser and beyond normal user.... sort of like mostly in a segment far worse than normal user, but every now and then with some odd needs forcing you beyond the poweruser stuff ^^[22:16:46] <JonathanThompson> I see :)[22:16:53] <Haicube> pyCube, Ah, so you better start with Distributed Computing then, don't let 'em spare cycles go to waste ;P[22:17:05] <JonathanThompson> If you want to abuse a laptop, do 3D cad software development on it :)[22:17:06] <pyCube> nonsense[22:17:54] <JonathanThompson> However, I'm no longer working for that company and on that software: they laid me off September of last year, and reclaimed the 3.4 Ghz P4 laptop that I constantly overheated.[22:18:05] <JonathanThompson> Now I'm just working with huge databases at work.[22:18:10] <kad77> JT: I was thinking of putting an A64 3700+ in one I have. That might be abuse[22:18:13] <Haicube> seriously though. Gaming drives stuff forward, and what I really think is that at some point, I expect the "screens" to be revolutionized so they actually show stuff in 3d. So Flat Screens become Phat screens, and suddenly the need of Quad Quad cores are a need for everyone =)[22:18:34] <JonathanThompson> 3D display devices already exist, Haicube.[22:18:48] <JonathanThompson> They just aren't nearly up to the resolution of 2D screens, and aren't very affordable yet.[22:18:49] <Haicube> JonathanThompson, yes, but they have to be everyday to drive the CPU industry dude[22:18:50] *** rgb has quit IRC[22:19:20] <Haicube> besides, the 3d display stuff really isn't that "smooth" yet... not to mention, there has to be software that utilize it's functionality too, we're talking at least 5+ years and most likely closer to a decade to become common stuff[22:19:22] <JonathanThompson> I figure within 5 years, nVidia/ATI will be working on their own hologram accelerator cards.[22:19:38] <pyCube> as long as ram prices stay relatively low, i am happy[22:19:50] <Haicube> LoL... pyCube ..[22:20:02] <pyCube> i like ram[22:20:04] * JonathanThompson imagines his future kids whining that 1 Terabyte RAM is too small to work within[22:20:17] <Haicube> hehe[22:20:31] <MangoFusion> i hate bloat[22:20:40] <pyCube> what is bloat?[22:20:43] <Haicube> what's wrong with boats?[22:20:43] <JonathanThompson> Then, of course, I'll bore them into insanity as I explain I first learned to program computers with as much as 8K RAM :P[22:21:14] <Haicube> JonathanThompson, you were lucky... I used to lick the street in the morning for 3 hours before my father let me use a computer with 1k ram...[22:21:17] <pyCube> i like when apps make good use of ram[22:21:28] <pyCube> its like, um, the reason i bought ram[22:21:33] * JonathanThompson wanders back to the office to prepare to pack what little he has to pack to move to the new building that he'll be working out of Monday[22:21:56] <JonathanThompson> pyCube, I promise to waste RAM efficiently with my IDE :)[22:22:05] <pyCube> hehe[22:22:14] <pyCube> stick as much as makes sense in ram, for sure[22:22:17] <JonathanThompson> (That is, use it to proper advantage, and try to keep it from growing heap usage/fragmentation for no good reason)[22:22:22] *** Lola has quit IRC[22:22:23] <kad77> these types of things are fun: http://www.bipom.com/simulator51.shtm[22:22:30] <pyCube> leaks are different.. but please, use ram![22:23:08] <JonathanThompson> I suspect a lot of developers get this crazy idea, "Let's put everything in as small of structures as possible to save RAM!" and not realizing that in practice, a lot of small objects mixed with other sizes eventually causes massive heap expansion with empty space.[22:23:19] <Haicube> since all you guys are wise and all that... may I just ask... this whole stuff with SVG....[22:23:28] *** BePower has quit IRC[22:23:29] <JonathanThompson> What about it?[22:23:29] <pyCube> once i decided to feed eclipse the ram it wants, its great! very fast[22:23:39] <JonathanThompson> It's another effective way to use more CPU, that's for sure :)[22:23:52] <MangoFusion> not using a Memory Manager... haha[22:23:56] <Haicube> I get the feeling Adobe has their SVG reader or whatever they call it, Firefox uses its own, and IE uses Adobes stuff... is there any standards in there which actually works all over?[22:24:02] <MangoFusion> cassic[22:24:03] <MangoFusion> *classic[22:24:06] <JonathanThompson> pyCube, I haven't yet decided whether my next box will start with 4 gig RAM, or if I'll perhaps spring for 8.[22:24:09] <Haicube> And what is Haikus stance on them SVG stuff?[22:24:20] <pyCube> svg is nice[22:24:33] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[22:24:33] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[22:24:37] <pyCube> i wish more people would use it web wise.. svg + javascript is actually pretty cool[22:24:38] <JonathanThompson> I don't think Haiku has a stance on it: there's a Haiku-specific icon rendering language used.[22:24:47] * JonathanThompson actually leaves[22:25:09] <Haicube> I just bought a server software which displays stuff in SVG charts, however, it works fine with IE, not with Firefox and has some "bitmap translator from SVG" included.... so just trying to figure this stuff out[22:25:20] <MangoFusion> i wish Firefox had SVG animation support. now that would rock[22:25:40] <Haicube> I sort of figure SVG to be the future, and the Flash crap etc being proprietary crap[22:25:55] <mmu_man> SVG in IE ? are you sure ?[22:26:00] <Haicube> or whatever... either way, I just wanna figure out if SVG is something which is just too new to be supported[22:26:06] *** meisje has quit IRC[22:26:12] <pyCube> MangoFusion: seeing as adobe bought flash etc, future of svg fanciness is unfortunately not looking so good.. i assume[22:26:12] <mmu_man> IE still has broken PNG transparency, so SVG...[22:26:19] <Haicube> mmu_man, not 100% obviously, but I think IE uses Adobe Reader as a plugin doesn't it?[22:26:20] *** Judgen has quit IRC[22:26:30] <mmu_man> might be[22:26:38] <Haicube> mmu_man, that's how I figure it to work at least[22:26:45] <MangoFusion> yes. Flash is more likely to stay at the top than SVG is[22:26:46] <mmu_man> IE6 was already using the Quicktime plugin to display PNG...[22:26:59] <mmu_man> MangoFusion shamely yes[22:27:08] <pyCube> svg + js could easily replace a lot of what flash is used for[22:27:14] <mmu_man> because it's not a standard but there is money to spend on it[22:27:28] <mmu_man> pyCube yes but no company makes advertisement on it[22:27:30] <MangoFusion> though i think those alternate implementations (Gnash, swfdec) are slowly coming along so maybe its not that bad[22:27:49] <Haicube> well as far as the dev told me that I'm buying the software from, the neat thing with SVG is that he can basically build any chart I'd like, since SVG is extremely flexible... and we're only talking static objects. However, due to the nature of SVG, it scales bizarelly well....[22:27:50] <Haicube> comments on that?[22:27:51] <mmu_man> it's still a proprietary technology[22:27:53] <MangoFusion> maybe i'm being too optimistic[22:27:54] <MangoFusion> haha[22:27:56] <pyCube> mmu_man: no good svg + js authroing tools[22:27:59] <pyCube> authoring[22:28:02] <mmu_man> er, remove that "technology" word[22:28:10] <mmu_man> it's not worth it[22:28:12] <Haicube> @mmu_man SVG = Proprietary?[22:28:17] <mmu_man> this word is overrated now[22:28:18] <mmu_man> no[22:28:20] <mmu_man> Flash is[22:29:01] <Haicube> @mmu_man .. Right, which is one of the reason we're betting on SVG... as far as I know (standing to be corrected), SVG is open for anyone to fool around with, just that some companies (Adobe) offer their reader, Like Mozilla integrate their own?[22:29:18] <Haicube> in my Novice view, SVG is sort of like XML[22:29:23] <pyCube> if there was a good "make animated/interactive svg things" application, it'd probably get used more[22:29:24] <pyCube> hehe[22:29:33] <pyCube> svg is xml[22:29:45] <Haicube> pyCube, we're only using Static objects and have no intention to go for animated crap[22:30:05] <pyCube> things that move are crap?[22:30:08] <MangoFusion> i've not found one good program to make animated SVG's that i could try out or was free / open source :([22:30:14] <Haicube> It's primarily a web based app we buy with the ability to show stuff online, scales well, and has the option of looking very well on print[22:30:23] <pyCube> yeah[22:30:40] <Haicube> and Flash hardly works with Print at all as far as I know...[22:30:42] <pyCube> well, still.. an app for authoring avg and adding interactivity via js would be neat[22:30:55] <pyCube> svg[22:30:56] <Haicube> either way, I tend to think anything related to Flash makes me hurl[22:31:06] <pyCube> thats retarded[22:31:10] <pyCube> flash is flash[22:31:14] <pyCube> things liek flash arent[22:31:24] <brlcad> howdy mmu_man[22:31:36] <Haicube> yah, but 95% of the stuff which is produced in Flash seems to be made by people who hate productivity. All them websites etc are hopeless UI wise.... at least if you ask me[22:32:20] <Haicube> @mmu_man since you seem to know the subject (at least far better than me), if something is written in SVG, would it be possible to render it on both IE and firefox?[22:32:21] <mmu_man> 95% of flash things have no point, and are bad because they impair the site (it's not a *website* anymore) usability.[22:32:21] <pyCube> yeah.. and because some people have abused something (say, animated stuff), all animated stuff must therefore be crap[22:32:47] <mmu_man> Haicube there are probably svg rendering libs usable from php[22:32:54] <brlcad> mmu_man: was talking about you just on Monday, how goes it with getting an opengl stack in haiku going? :)[22:32:55] <Haicube> pyCube, Nope, just that my expectations are put LOW to say the least... so I tend to block most flash stuff[22:32:59] <mmu_man> there used to be gif making libs[22:33:03] <Haicube> @mmu_man... right[22:33:03] <brlcad> s/Monday/Sunday/[22:33:20] <mmu_man> brlcad you should ask phoudoin and korli :p[22:33:52] <pyCube> i used to do that in a web app.. built dynamic svg xml and rendered it to png[22:34:18] <Haicube> @mmu_man ... I always figured you see, that apps like Powerpoint/Keynote/Impress should really utilize SVG instead of that crappy bitmap/Metafile technology stuff.... wouldn't that be neat?[22:35:15] <Haicube> pyCube, Ah, that's a possibility I suppose, since that would mean that the Scaling is perfect and simply by converting it to desired format you get it perfect again, just that in PNG it's "locked"[22:35:18] <Haicube> right?[22:35:37] <pyCube> once rendered to whatever res.. sure[22:35:53] <pyCube> but firefox displays svg now[22:35:54] <pyCube> heh[22:35:59] <pyCube> dunno about ie[22:36:02] <brlcad> mmu_man: hehe, k (and it was all-good btw ;)[22:36:03] <pyCube> or others[22:36:05] <Haicube> @mmu_man, suppose I could get my hands on a very sophisticated SVG Charting library, wouldn't it be "easy" to build a charting app native in Haiku around that?[22:36:56] <pyCube> Haicube: storing charts as svg is good, as you could convert it to whatever if needed[22:36:59] <mmu_man> Haicube if svg were not text based it could be used internaly in haiku, like DisplayPDF in OSX and DisplayPostscript in NExt :)[22:37:21] <mmu_man> actually there are ways to put SVG in binary, not sure it's standardized yet[22:37:32] <Haicube> @mmu_man so you're saying the problem is that it's text based?[22:37:34] <Haicube> how can that be?[22:37:39] <MangoFusion> convert it to.... swf! :)[22:37:43] <pyCube> hehe[22:37:45] <Haicube> Yuk[22:37:49] <mmu_man> well text wastes a lot of place[22:38:08] <Haicube> @mmu_man... ah, but basically you mean TExt then as in "non compiled" so to speak?[22:38:11] <pyCube> it compresses well :-p[22:38:12] <mmu_man> it's nice (xml), but for use by desktop compositing engines it would be slow[22:38:17] <mmu_man> as it would have to parse it everytime[22:38:39] <mmu_man> well the SVG format is XML, so it's plain text[22:38:52] <Haicube> @mmu_man I see.... but assume I got the library (in text), wouldn't it in a "compilation" be parsed then? Or wouldn't an app be abled to use the parsed stuff?[22:39:18] <MangoFusion> i'd figure the parser would be intelligent enough to store things in memory in some form of binary format so it didn't have to keep parsing it ;)[22:39:50] <Haicube> @mmu_man, well desktop "compositing engines" are one thing, but then you're talking like SVG Tracker I suppose ? ??? If we're talking a charting app, that speed would hardly be noticeable now would it?[22:40:02] <mmu_man> no[22:40:09] <Haicube> ah, ok ? =)[22:40:10] <mmu_man> I mean like DisplayPDF[22:40:18] <Haicube> <--- probably making a complete fool out of myself[22:40:35] <Haicube> @mmu_man ah, I see I think[22:40:42] <pyCube> svg is a nice storage format because its easy to make/mod, and its not res bound, and its easily comverted to other things[22:40:58] <mmu_man> well standalone apps just parse the file on open and have an internal object tree to represent it[22:41:36] <Haicube> too technical... anyway, let's not bother about it today... the consultant will drop by on sunday thru wednesday, I'll probably learnmore about it then...[22:42:12] <pyCube> parsing and rendering an svg chart should be fast[22:42:16] <Haicube> BRB[22:45:43] <Haicube> back[22:46:31] <mmu_man> http://www.silicium.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18159 for those who want a 2nd hand UMPC to try and install Haiku on maybe ? :p[22:46:35] <mmu_man> (it's not mine)[22:47:50] <pulkomandy> +++[22:47:52] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[22:51:11] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[22:53:13] *** Lola has joined #haiku[22:54:41] *** Lola has quit IRC[23:00:32] *** brygu1 has joined #haiku[23:00:35] *** Lola has joined #haiku[23:01:28] *** Lola has quit IRC[23:06:13] *** Lola has joined #haiku[23:10:39] *** Judgen has joined #haiku[23:18:01] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:20:59] *** Haicube has quit IRC[23:21:36] *** aphedox has quit IRC[23:21:54] *** aphedox has joined #haiku[23:31:55] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC[23:37:24] <emitrax> if I configure my build system for gcc-4, then try to compile an image, getting an error, reconfigure for gcc-2.95, then retry to compile an image, will it continue from where it stopped or will it restart all over again?[23:41:53] *** LeandroLuiz has quit IRC[23:42:53] *** Euver has joined #haiku[23:53:56] *** stargater has quit IRC[23:55:28] *** oco has quit IRC[23:57:50] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[23:57:51] <Stargater> re