October 11, 2007 
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October 11, 2007 [00:03:15] *** guma has joined #haiku[00:03:22] *** agony_ has joined #haiku[00:05:32] *** magnetron has quit IRC[00:07:40] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku[00:09:44] *** MauriceK has quit IRC[00:10:13] *** acidx has joined #haiku[00:11:10] <Ingenu> night[00:11:29] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[00:11:43] *** emitrax has quit IRC[00:12:43] *** guma has quit IRC[00:22:31] *** oco has quit IRC[00:27:25] <kad77> mmu_man: for the cdr problem, I am using the freeware program above - it is managing to read through the few errors![00:27:45] <mmu_man> fine[00:27:58] <kad77> The DVD-RAM problem requires me to buy a certain drive (sony 830u or something) and use a different bit of software[00:28:08] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[00:28:33] <kad77> mmu_man: who did the work modifiying gcc4 to work for beos?[00:28:48] <mmu_man> oliver I suppose[00:29:06] <kad77> does he drop in here?[00:30:25] <mmu_man> not much[00:31:27] <kad77> yeah, I don't know his handle. maybe I have seen him as OliverT[00:36:14] <mmu_man> might be[00:47:46] *** agony_ has quit IRC[00:48:54] *** agony_ has joined #haiku[00:57:28] *** petterhj has quit IRC[01:07:19] *** kr1stof has left #haiku[01:10:59] *** agony_ has quit IRC[01:17:24] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[01:17:43] *** BuildFactory has quit IRC[01:20:45] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[01:22:09] *** TheNerd_LT has joined #haiku[01:22:55] <mmu_man> hmm where's axel ?[01:23:04] <mmu_man> he's here usually at that time :)[01:23:13] <DeadYak> only on mondays lately[01:35:08] *** [1]kad77 has joined #haiku[01:43:08] * wasosa is away: going home[01:52:34] *** kad77 has quit IRC[01:52:34] *** [1]kad77 is now known as kad77[02:10:40] *** Sikosis has joined #haiku[02:10:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Sikosis[02:10:46] *** judgen has quit IRC[02:18:44] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC[02:21:30] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[02:22:22] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC[02:36:28] *** TheNerd_LT has quit IRC[02:42:15] *** Cube-ness has joined #haiku[02:42:16] *** pyCube__ has quit IRC[02:42:16] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[02:58:16] *** pyCube__ has joined #haiku[03:02:08] *** AnEvilYak has joined #haiku[03:06:04] *** frodobeg25 has quit IRC[03:11:00] *** Darknesss has quit IRC[03:36:00] *** Darknesss has joined #haiku[03:37:30] *** M_199 has joined #haiku[03:55:28] *** Master199 has quit IRC[03:57:48] *** acidx has quit IRC[04:23:53] *** Darknesss has quit IRC[04:27:33] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC[04:39:39] * JonathanThompson laughs at the latest iPhone class action lawsuit filed against Apple & AT&T mentioned on Ars[04:44:13] * pyCube__ laughs at iphones[04:45:17] <JonathanThompson> What's so darn funny is I bet Apple very carefully went through all the possible scenarios as to legalities long before announcing it, and has precedence all documented to backup every reason for what they're doing.[04:45:50] <JonathanThompson> And really, it's not like they said, "The iPhone will be open!" and in fact, were very explicit about what it would be, warts and all.[04:46:32] <umccullough> what's the class action about this time?[04:46:45] <JonathanThompson> I can't help but wonder if they were counting on this big snarl of people thinking Apple MUST open things up, all for the publicity.[04:46:45] <umccullough> bricking phone or something?[04:46:54] <JonathanThompson> Look on Ars, umccullough :)[04:47:01] <JonathanThompson> They're going for big money, too.[04:47:03] * umccullough grudgingly opens a browser[04:47:14] <umccullough> i don't read ars much :P[04:47:18] * JonathanThompson hands umccullough a replacement package of grudges to replace his used ones[04:47:46] * JonathanThompson sweeps umccullough's used grudges off the floor, carefully not touching them (who knows what's inside?)[04:52:06] <JonathanThompson> So, what do you think, umccullough? You think Apple had this planned before release, and did their homework to verify the legality, etc. and this is all part of an expected media frenzy?[04:53:03] *** stargater has quit IRC[04:56:02] <umccullough> i wouldn't be surprised if this is going to be apple's way of proving out stupid the DMCA is[04:57:11] <umccullough> i bet they'll claim that they must retain full control over the phone and the software that is installed to ensure that it cannot be used to play "illegal content"[04:57:22] <umccullough> or some bullshit like that[04:57:23] <kad77> AAPL == $167usd yesterday[04:57:37] <kad77> up $50 in 6 mo. FWIW[04:57:49] <umccullough> yeah, did you see goog is f'ing nuts?[04:57:56] <umccullough> $625 today[04:58:08] <kad77> well, they refuse to split on top of it[04:58:09] <JonathanThompson> I wonder how that affects employee options and stock purchases :P[04:58:38] <JonathanThompson> And for comparison, there's Yahoo!s stock :P[04:58:44] <kad77> although it's been at $500 for a long time, so $625 seems like a modest increase .. dunno, have to check charts[04:59:06] <umccullough> on the other hand, my ATML is up 5% today ;)[04:59:46] <kad77> GOOG up te $125 in 12 mo.[05:00:40] <kad77> umc: know where to chat with oliver tappe, or just by email?[05:03:40] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[05:39:33] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[06:00:09] <umccullough> kad77, i don't know how to get ahold of him :/[06:01:14] <Sikosis> i didnt see anything about the iphone on ars ... just about AT&T's TOS[06:03:31] *** cizra has left #haiku[06:06:07] <umccullough> Sikosis, it was further back[06:06:07] <umccullough> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071010-bricks-apps-and-warranties-oh-my-apple-att-hit-with-800-million-suit.html[06:07:06] <Sikosis> well Californian Timothy Smith, California resident Lucy Rivello and Washington resident Paul Holman are idiots ...[06:07:58] <Sikosis> the iphone was locked into the at&t deal cos they were only carrier that would suppose the push email so thats why they asked for the exclusive 2 year deal[06:08:09] <Sikosis> dont like it ... dont buy an iphone ... no one forced them to[06:08:40] <Sikosis> and if they hacked it and got bricked by the latest firmware, then the joke and yokes on them[06:08:58] <geist> heh[06:09:01] <Sikosis> stupidity tax[06:09:09] <geist> nasty ol apple picked on the widdle kiddies[06:09:31] <umccullough> omg, my hacked iphone is broked[06:10:10] <pyCube__> can i sue somebody? my phone came with.. *gasp*.. windows[06:10:13] <geist> awww, umccullough gets a cookie[06:10:19] <Sikosis> like i can understand why apple wants to control the platform ... they dont want to open it up too much otherwise u end up with palm's problem of having 3rd party apps crashing the device[06:10:28] * umccullough eats the cookie and everything is right as rain[06:10:28] <Sikosis> pyCube__: lol[06:10:36] <geist> fun with SMART[06:10:51] <geist> looking at failing drives, didn't know the error logs were that exhaustive[06:11:01] <geist> but modern drives keep a pretty detailed log of every failure[06:11:19] <pyCube__> so, i really like qt4[06:11:22] <umccullough> that's cuz they're SMART ;)[06:11:29] <geist> SMRT[06:11:41] <umccullough> SMRF?[06:11:42] <geist> got these two 300GB drives that are being little bitches[06:11:48] <geist> guess I should just toss em, they're unreliable[06:11:54] <pyCube__> ...from a programming angle that is[06:11:56] <geist> both have like 40 errors in their logs[06:12:04] <umccullough> ew[06:12:12] <umccullough> i should check my drives more often...[06:12:31] <geist> there's a nifty daemon you can run that monitors your drives and emails you if you start having errors logged[06:12:33] <umccullough> not even sure how to check them from windows...[06:12:37] <geist> even stuff the OS never sees[06:12:48] <geist> well, on linux. i think with windows you're screwed[06:12:59] <umccullough> yeah, i was thinkin' something like that...[06:13:08] <DeadYak> geist: is the log stored in nvram on the hdd itself or something?[06:13:17] <umccullough> hdd itself iirc[06:13:20] <DeadYak> interesting[06:13:31] <DeadYak> I thought it only provided immediate notifications, didn't realize it could store them[06:13:37] <umccullough> that way the drive can scream loudly just before it croaks[06:13:42] <pyCube__> what if the place where it stores the log is itself corrupted?[06:13:56] <DeadYak> a screaming hard disk would be kinda cool[06:13:58] <umccullough> pyCube__, i suspect that would be an obvious sign :)[06:14:10] <umccullough> DeadYak, you've never heard one? ;)[06:14:13] <pyCube__> umccullough: what if that was the only place that was corrupted?[06:14:14] <geist> yeah[06:14:20] <geist> yeah there is quite a bit there[06:14:35] <geist> smartctl lets you see what tests it can run, the logs from previous runs, schedule tests[06:14:54] <geist> and look at the various logs. error logs, self test[06:15:01] <umccullough> geist, looks like SpeedFan on windows displays SMART info[06:15:20] <umccullough> sort of just shows a count of warnings, and a "health" meter[06:15:37] <umccullough> with an option to "perform an indepth analysis of this drive"[06:15:41] <kad77> there is a hddhealth freeware that is incredibly detailed[06:15:47] <umccullough> ... should i push the button?[06:15:59] <kad77> http://www.snapfiles.com/get/hddhealth.html[06:16:11] <geist> for kicks I'm sticking these two as a raid1 and letting it rebuild[06:16:12] <umccullough> cool, takes me to some website where it shows me the analysis of my drive....oh...wait[06:16:15] <kad77> I tried it a few weeks ago, a lot of SMART detail[06:16:15] <geist> see if it'll even make it all the way[06:16:33] <geist> pretty fast IO actaully, it's sustaining 70MB/sec from one to the other[06:17:04] <umccullough> Your hard disk is a Maxtor 6L080M0 with firmware BANC1G10.[06:17:04] <umccullough> The average temperature for this hard disk is 36C (MIN=27C MAX=47C) and yours is 31C.[06:17:10] <umccullough> :)[06:17:19] <kad77> umc: you ever upgrade firmware in your drives?[06:17:23] <umccullough> it tells me the seek time is abnormal and i should watch it[06:17:28] <umccullough> kad77, never...[06:17:47] <kad77> I've just been hearing about it now that I've been researching SATA RAID[06:17:57] <geist> it's pretty easy on linux nowadays[06:18:03] <kad77> good to know[06:18:06] <geist> and cpus are fast enough i wouldn't bother with a dedicated card[06:18:20] <kad77> I got a dedicated card on ebay for $70[06:18:44] <kad77> fast 8 port sas/sata model (hardware xor, etc)[06:18:52] <geist> i'd do a bunch of research before you put it in use[06:18:56] <geist> a lot of those are pieces of crap[06:19:13] <kad77> this is an LSI, its good. intel 333 IOPS processor[06:19:26] <geist> suit yourself[06:19:28] <kad77> PCIe 4x sot[06:19:57] <umccullough> i used the nforce4 chip on one of my boards to RAID0 a couple 320gb's - it's f'ing fast[06:20:13] <kad77> geist: I mainly went this route because of recovery. I've read over and over that it is much more straitforward with hardware[06:20:22] <umccullough> it's just a "junk" server at work...[06:20:27] <kad77> although the highpoint cards looked good, and were software assisted[06:20:40] <geist> except where the hardware fucks up and you have no way to fix it[06:20:42] <umccullough> kad77, get yourself another controller[06:20:49] <umccullough> that way if the controller dies, you have a backup[06:20:56] <kad77> good idea[06:21:06] <geist> also if you put it in use make sur eyou know how to recover[06:21:20] <geist> break the array a few times, make sure it can fix[06:21:22] <kad77> you can get deals on these cards, because many ppl don't realize a SAS card will handle SATA[06:21:23] <umccullough> and also good to swap a disk after a year of use even if it doesn't die[06:21:49] <geist> and maybe dont do what i did and buy 4 disks on the same day[06:21:56] <geist> and then have 2 of them fail right next to each other :)[06:21:57] <umccullough> always good to have disks of different age in your RAID so they don't all fail at the same time[06:21:58] <kad77> I bought a spare 500gb disk for this case, if I need to get a RMA[06:22:29] <umccullough> geist, it's not likely to happen actually ;)[06:22:33] <umccullough> geist, did they overheat?[06:22:37] <geist> no[06:22:52] <kad77> geist: yeah, I usually space out the disks from different retailers. but this was home budget, and I went with who had the steepest discount.[06:23:13] <geist> actaully that's not really what happened. it sounds dumb when i say it but one of them started acting funny a few months back and i ignored it[06:23:22] <umccullough> heh[06:23:23] <kad77> I think I will bang on the array for 24/7x14 to see what happens first[06:23:38] <geist> and so it was just a matter of time before a second one failed while the first one was acting up[06:24:01] <umccullough> geist, happens more often than you think actually...[06:24:10] <geist> though i was totally unhappy with my nas box because it totally shit the bed when the raid failed out from underneath it[06:24:33] <umccullough> ouch[06:24:38] <geist> a lot of times I would have just been able to reset it and get the data off before replacing[06:24:56] <geist> but anyway, I dont have that much data anyway, so I'm just going with a redundant copy on another physical machine strategy for a while[06:25:02] <geist> rsync it every night[06:25:28] <geist> i had planned on having terabytes of movies and whatnot at this point, but that didn't really fall through[06:25:31] <umccullough> i rarely backup anything actually....[06:25:38] <kad77> yeah, I am going to backup critical data to another machine daily. tapes for some. the rest will have to chance it.[06:25:39] <geist> so I really just have the same hundred GB of data I copy around[06:26:41] <umccullough> i have some redundancy - my 300gb external drive has backups of a lot of crap[06:26:54] <umccullough> but i don't keep it updated ;)[06:27:03] <kad77> well, thanks for the advice and stirring up my nervous feelings about a SATA NAS RAID :D[06:28:21] <kad77> i would think raid 1 is good. there are LSI cards that will do that with IDE if you have some drives eating up space[06:28:36] <kad77> For $60 I could put 4 of these 160gb drives into raid5[06:30:13] <umccullough> for $60 you can get a new 300gb drive[06:31:02] <kad77> well, i mean I can do something useful with these drives[06:31:06] <geist> yeah, I basically decided that unless I need massive amounts of data, spending money on say two 500GB drives (about $200) and puttig them in seperate boxes makes more sense[06:31:24] <geist> then i dont have to dick with raid and it's fast[06:31:27] <umccullough> kad77, you can software-raid them for a lot less than $60 ;)[06:32:07] <kad77> master/slave on two PATA ports won't be nearly as good as four PATA ports[06:32:30] <kad77> plus, it works on other OS. :)[06:32:38] <umccullough> oh, PATA?[06:32:58] <kad77> yeah, I was side commenting you can even find IDE RAID5 controllers on ebay[06:33:03] <kad77> old stuff from 2000 or so[06:33:26] <geist> meh, just use sw[06:33:36] <geist> the slowdown from sharing a channel on PATA is pretty negligable[06:33:57] <geist> generally speaking you get one of the two: raid, performance[06:34:00] <kad77> I may with a spare board, at some point.[06:34:02] <umccullough> it'd actually be hard to find a machine that supports more than 4 pata devices :P[06:34:22] <geist> unless you want to get a caching raid controller, but than that's a whole new can o' worms[06:34:27] <kad77> umc: yeah, the RAID IDE card shows as a scsi device[06:34:28] <umccullough> but you can RAID5 with 3 drives[06:34:53] <kad77> geist: yeah, this is a 256mb DDR2 caching raid controller. 140mb/s write[06:35:00] <kad77> 170mb/sec read[06:35:07] <geist> does it have battery backup?[06:35:13] <kad77> optional ($40)[06:35:18] <pyCube__> whats all that io speed for?[06:35:19] <kad77> I'm running UPS for now[06:35:19] <geist> dont use it without battery backup[06:35:24] <geist> it's worthless otherwise[06:35:34] <geist> it's worse than worthless, it's dangerous[06:35:44] <kad77> for sure, I want to see the card working with teh drives before I get the battery[06:46:51] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[06:52:03] *** Disreali has quit IRC[06:52:29] *** [Katisu] has joined #haiku[07:04:39] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[07:27:06] *** umccullough has quit IRC[07:28:02] *** umccullough has joined #haiku[07:32:03] *** mats has quit IRC[07:50:28] *** umccullough has quit IRC[08:02:32] *** agony_ has joined #haiku[08:06:31] *** umccullough has joined #haiku[08:16:19] *** kokito has quit IRC[08:17:39] *** Euver has joined #haiku[08:31:47] *** Sikosis has quit IRC[08:42:28] *** pyCube__ has quit IRC[08:42:28] *** Cube-ness has quit IRC[08:42:30] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[08:44:37] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[08:48:07] *** frodobeg25 has joined #haiku[08:59:17] *** Cube-ness has joined #haiku[09:11:24] *** Euver has quit IRC[09:20:48] *** ddt_7th has joined #haiku[09:26:50] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[09:34:51] *** Penix has quit IRC[09:46:59] <CIA-5> axeld * r22504 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/ (sem.c thread.cpp):[09:46:59] <CIA-5> * IDs are now generally written as decimal numbers, rather than hexadecimal.[09:46:59] <CIA-5> * Fixed warnings with debug output turned on.[09:46:59] <CIA-5> * Shuffled functions around a bit.[09:46:59] <CIA-5> * Minor cleanup.[09:48:24] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[09:49:06] <CIA-5> axeld * r22505 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/vm/vm.cpp: No need to print and try NULL at all.[09:55:14] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[09:55:26] <plfiorini> hi[09:57:22] *** joltz has quit IRC[09:59:25] *** wasosa_ has joined #haiku[10:01:21] <CIA-5> axeld * r22506 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)[10:01:21] <CIA-5> * Reworked stealing pages: the page thief thread is gone now,[10:01:21] <CIA-5> vm_page_reserve_pages() and vm_page_allocate_page() will now steal pages from[10:01:21] <CIA-5> the inactive queue as needed.[10:01:21] <CIA-5> * We currently never steal active pages anymore, but this might need to be[10:01:22] <CIA-5> revised later (therefore, the page scanner never waits anymore, but uses[10:01:25] <CIA-5> mutex_trylock() to lock a cache).[10:02:32] *** ddt_7th has left #haiku[10:03:53] *** Penix has joined #haiku[10:10:49] *** wasosa__ has joined #haiku[10:11:06] *** wasosa_ has quit IRC[10:14:01] *** BuildFactory has joined #haiku[10:17:28] *** wasosa has quit IRC[10:23:28] *** Sikosis has joined #haiku[10:23:31] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Sikosis[10:24:17] *** slaad has joined #haiku[10:24:55] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[10:30:21] <CIA-5> axeld * r22507 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/ (port.c team.cpp):[10:30:21] <CIA-5> * IDs are now generally printed as decimal values.[10:30:21] <CIA-5> * Removed old port test code, it doesn't belong there.[10:30:21] <CIA-5> * Cleanup.[10:59:55] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[11:02:00] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[11:17:09] *** Darknesss has joined #haiku[11:28:50] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku[11:41:39] *** Player1 has joined #haiku[12:00:08] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[12:31:01] *** aphedox has joined #haiku[12:46:41] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[12:47:18] *** TheNerd_WK has joined #haiku[13:12:18] *** TuneTracker has quit IRC[13:16:45] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku[13:19:53] * Thom_Holwerda waves[13:33:31] *** zanga has joined #haiku[13:33:45] <zanga> hi all :)[13:37:26] <Thom_Holwerda> hi[13:40:03] <zanga> i was just looking around to see whether setting up a freenode channel could be of help to my project in the future[13:41:09] <zanga> however I do like haiku os a lot and am anxious to see the R1 release :)[13:55:47] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[13:59:18] <zanga> see you[13:59:19] *** zanga has quit IRC[14:15:06] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[14:15:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton[14:15:09] <JBurton> hi all[14:21:49] *** Sikosis has quit IRC[14:28:10] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[14:31:06] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[14:34:43] *** Yaroze has quit IRC[14:42:21] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku[14:42:49] *** _stippi_ has joined #haiku[14:44:52] *** stargater has joined #haiku[14:44:54] <stargater> Hi[14:45:40] *** BuildFactory has quit IRC[14:50:42] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[14:50:56] *** acidx has joined #haiku[15:00:49] *** stargater has quit IRC[15:02:55] *** _stippi_ is now known as stippi[15:03:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[15:03:24] <JBurton> hi stippi[15:03:29] <stippi> hi JBurton[15:04:24] <stippi> JBurton: let me type a really long line so I can see the TextControl scrolling in action down in Vision... oh this line is not nearly long enough yet[15:04:26] <stippi> oh[15:04:28] <stippi> it works[15:04:39] <stippi> but in BeOS it would scroll one char at a time[15:05:04] <JBurton> oh[15:05:08] <stippi> is the new behaviour intentional?[15:05:24] <JBurton> not really, but well, I suppose it is not so bad eitehr[15:05:26] <JBurton> I mean[15:05:41] <JBurton> it basically centers the point where you are typing, no ?[15:05:46] <mmu_man> plop[15:05:49] <stippi> not too bad yes[15:06:00] <stippi> let's see if we can get used to that[15:06:11] <stippi> I suppose it is easy to change should we think it is necessary...[15:06:15] <JBurton> yeah[15:07:18] <DeadYak> I can change that if you like, I couldn't remember R5's default scrolling behavior off the top of my head[15:11:36] *** Player1 has quit IRC[15:18:58] <stippi> hi DeadYak[15:19:12] <DeadYak> hiya :)[15:19:29] <stippi> I think if you are watching where you type, it is better not to have it jerk too much[15:20:19] <DeadYak> that was kind of the point of doing a jump[15:20:28] <DeadYak> it scrolls once, but then the view stays stable for a while[15:20:31] <DeadYak> instead of constantly moving as you type[15:20:47] <stippi> I see where you're comming from[15:21:33] <DeadYak> I've seen both approaches in other OSes though, so obviously there's some disagreement as to which is better :P[15:21:46] <DeadYak> or in the case of the Linux box I'm on right now, I can see both in the same OS :P[15:21:46] <stippi> what does MacOS X do?[15:21:56] <DeadYak> mm[15:21:59] <DeadYak> one sec, let me check the mini behind me[15:22:05] <stippi> :-)[15:22:12] <stippi> you are well equipped...[15:22:40] <DeadYak> I'm at work[15:22:51] <DeadYak> and the text input in Safari at least scrolls char by char[15:23:37] <stippi> I'm wondering if we shouldn't stick to what we are used to from BeOS. But I am willing to try it for a while.[15:23:56] <DeadYak> that's fine by me :) I just couldn't recall the BeOS behavior[15:24:08] <DeadYak> and this was what the code in place already did[15:24:22] <stippi> anyways, it's really nice that you have been working on this[15:24:41] <DeadYak> it just didn't work on text controls because it was manipulating the scrollbars directly which (obviously) are nonexistent in a BTextControl[15:25:14] <DeadYak> I'll look at that when I get home if you want, I've kind of hit a wall with BMenu anyways :/[15:26:58] <stippi> I'll be arround[15:27:15] <stippi> have you talked to JBurton about the BMenu problem you have hit?[15:27:24] <DeadYak> the other day briefly but he had to leave[15:27:37] <DeadYak> the main problem is something that was added in R5's release notes[15:27:42] <DeadYak> namely SetTrackingHook[15:28:06] <DeadYak> I don't see a way to support that without the use of the tracking thread[15:28:17] <stippi> I've read a bit on that, but then I was not sure if it means custom tracking at all...[15:28:45] <DeadYak> that's what it sounded like to me anyways[15:28:59] <DeadYak> on the other hand the release notes is the only place I've seen it mentioned so I'm not sure anyone's even using that[15:29:10] <DeadYak> and it seems you could do custom tracking logic just as easily by overriding the mouse hooks[15:29:13] <stippi> which way around do you mean? custom or not custom tracking? :-)[15:29:17] <DeadYak> custom[15:29:41] <DeadYak> as best as I can interpret it, the hook gets called and takes over tracking from there[15:29:42] <stippi> it is documented in the BeBook[15:29:52] <DeadYak> I only found it in the Be Book in the Release Notes section[15:30:04] <stippi> but it looks to me it only provides a hook function to be called when tracking is done, or not?[15:30:05] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[15:30:15] <DeadYak> stippi: no, that's MenusEnded()[15:30:36] <DeadYak> afaik[15:31:10] <CIA-5> jackburton * r22508 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs):[15:31:10] <CIA-5> PaletteConverter now exports a static InitializeDefault() method, which[15:31:10] <CIA-5> can be used (and is, by _init_interface_kit()) to initialize the ...[15:31:10] <CIA-5> er... default instance of[15:31:10] <CIA-5> PaletteConverter using the system color map, thus avoid building the[15:31:11] <CIA-5> list of colors, which takes some time. Fixes bug #505.[15:31:59] <DeadYak> Sets the callback function that's called when the object is tracking the mouse. Any mouse movement will cause func to be invoked?it isn't just invoked when the mouses moves to a new menu items (for example). The state data is passed as an argument to func. Note that state is not copied.[15:32:09] <DeadYak> though ....[15:32:10] <DeadYak> hmm[15:32:19] <DeadYak> come to think of it, that could just be called by MouseMoved[15:35:01] <JBurton> first of all[15:35:23] <JBurton> I haven't tested what R5 does, but I simply found simpler to just call that hook every time the trackign loop repeats[15:35:28] <JBurton> second:[15:35:35] <JBurton> that hook it's not really a tracking hook[15:35:55] <JBurton> but simply an extra way to be able to exit the tracking loop[15:36:04] <DeadYak> nod[15:36:10] <DeadYak> based off the description I'm not sure that's the intent :)[15:36:35] <DeadYak> though the description does leave a lot of things vague :/ i.e. do we call it before or after we've done our own processing on the mouse movement[15:36:40] <JBurton> yeah[15:36:44] <JBurton> I simply did some tests[15:36:56] <DeadYak> I don't know of any app that actually uses it though so....[15:36:59] <JBurton> it's used, for example, when you drag some icon in tracker with the right button[15:37:05] <JBurton> afaik[15:37:09] <JBurton> and, also by deskbar[15:37:12] <JBurton> IIRC[15:37:42] <JBurton> DeadYak well check the tracker's code, you'll see that the intent was that one[15:37:56] <DeadYak> good to know, I didn't realize Tracker used it[15:38:39] <JBurton> wait. let me check the right place[15:38:51] <JBurton> http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/haiku/haiku/trunk/src/kits/tracker/NavMenu.cpp?rev=17052&view=markup[15:40:38] <JBurton> now you just need to search where is the trackign hook :P[15:40:51] <DeadYak> hm, that only does an init of it...[15:40:54] <stippi> SetTrackingHookDeep()... ![15:40:56] <DeadYak> don't see the actual hook function there[15:41:12] <DeadYak> time to dig into PoseView[15:41:16] *** el_gringo has joined #haiku[15:42:03] <JBurton> yeah told ya[15:42:05] <JBurton> :P[15:42:37] <DeadYak> hmm....[15:42:40] <DeadYak> odd tracking function[15:42:53] <DeadYak> see BPoseView::MenuTrackingHook[15:43:09] <CIA-5> jackburton * r22509 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/ColorConversion.cpp: Static variables should have the s prefix.[15:45:02] <DeadYak> not sure I understand what he's trying to accomplish with that, seems like it makes the menu disappear if you mouse outside of it[15:45:14] <JBurton> exactly[15:45:26] <JBurton> drag an icon with the right mouse button,[15:45:31] <JBurton> and you'll see why this is needed[15:45:38] <JBurton> btw, it's not a tracking loop.[15:45:41] <DeadYak> would if I were near a Haiku box :P[15:45:53] <JBurton> it just returns a value to see if the tracking loop should exit or not[15:46:01] <DeadYak> I see that now[15:46:16] <DeadYak> it's annoying that it forces the use of a tracking loop at all though[15:46:21] <JBurton> yeah[15:47:10] <DeadYak> what he's doing there could just as well be done by watching MouseMoved for B_TRANSIT_EXITED[15:47:14] <DeadYak> or whatever the constant was[15:47:28] <JBurton> B_EXITED_VIEW ?[15:47:32] <JBurton> oh well[15:47:32] <DeadYak> yeah[15:47:34] <JBurton> that one anyway[15:47:35] <DeadYak> that[15:47:36] <JBurton> :P[15:48:09] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[15:48:18] <DeadYak> I'm just wondering if anything other than Tracker and Deskbar ever made use of that[15:48:21] <stippi> really?[15:49:07] <stippi> I want to be able to exit the menu without it closing[15:49:24] <stippi> this way of using a menu means you have no button pressed[15:49:41] <DeadYak> stippi: this is something specific to tracker's right click drag it looks like[15:50:28] <JBurton> yeah[15:51:16] <JBurton> let's see if there is a closed bug for that... at least, I remember there was one[15:51:19] <DeadYak> by the way, is it intentional that ProcessController won't let you keep its menu open without holding the mouse button?[15:51:30] <JBurton> probably. Although it's annoying[15:51:37] <DeadYak> I seem to remember you could on R5, but Haiku's version seems modified anyways[15:51:46] <JBurton> I think we should drop any menu which forces you to keep the button pressed[15:51:47] <stippi> ?[15:52:00] <DeadYak> on Haiku I can't click ProcessController and have its menu stay open[15:52:03] <DeadYak> goes away immediately[15:52:08] <stippi> if I just right click process controller, the menu will stay open[15:52:10] <DeadYak> unless I hold down the mouse[15:52:12] <DeadYak> not for me[15:52:17] <stippi> left click too[15:52:24] <stippi> don't move the mouse at all[15:52:38] <DeadYak> I'm not[15:53:08] <stippi> works here[15:53:25] <DeadYak> well, I can't get it to work here :/ maybe my mouse is just hypersensitive[15:53:29] <JBurton> eheheh[15:53:47] <DeadYak> or PC's using too small a size for the clickToOpen rect[15:53:48] <JBurton> well no wonder you can't get it to work there.. you don't even have an haiku box[15:53:49] <JBurton> :P[15:54:04] * DeadYak points at AnEvilYak :P[15:54:26] <JBurton> <DeadYak> would if I were near a Haiku box :P[15:54:52] <DeadYak> I realize this[15:54:55] <DeadYak> :P[15:55:11] <stippi> would be cool if the submenu indicator was on the side where the submenu opens...[15:55:16] <JBurton> yeah[15:55:22] <JBurton> although I think the menuitem can't know that[15:55:32] <stippi> I guess[15:55:35] <DeadYak> yeah, it can't, that's computed on the fly[15:55:44] <JBurton> I think we should rethink the whole menu hierarchy sometime in the future[15:55:47] <JBurton> it's really so much broken[15:55:52] <DeadYak> yes, yes it is[15:55:56] <stippi> I'm not sure it couldn't be done[15:55:58] <DeadYak> whoever designed that back at Be really wasn't thinking[15:56:10] <JBurton> I think it's an extension of an extension[15:56:13] <JBurton> of an extension[15:56:13] <JBurton> etc[15:56:14] <JBurton> etc[15:56:17] <DeadYak> possible too :)[15:56:17] <stippi> grown code...[15:56:42] <JBurton> oh btw DeadYak weren't you telling me about missing FBC slots in BMenu** the other day ?[15:56:59] <DeadYak> JBurton: I only see some reserved virtuals, no available member data[15:57:02] <JBurton> yeah[15:57:07] <DeadYak> except by adding stuff to the private struct[15:59:18] <JBurton> brb[15:59:24] * JBurton goes getting a coffee[15:59:30] <DeadYak> mm...coffee[16:01:38] <stippi> that reminds me...[16:01:53] <stippi> I very often heat water and then forget about it...[16:01:55] *** TuneTracker has joined #Haiku[16:02:02] <DeadYak> stippi: for tea?[16:02:14] <TuneTracker> crumpets anyone?[16:02:54] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[16:03:54] *** slaad has quit IRC[16:04:50] <stippi> DeadYak: Tea, coffee, cappuchino... anything[16:04:58] <stippi> TuneTracker: yes please[16:05:05] <TuneTracker> Jam?[16:05:10] * TuneTracker prepares a plate[16:05:18] <stippi> no thanks, peanut butter will do[16:05:27] * TuneTracker slathers[16:05:28] <DeadYak> mm...peanut butter[16:05:41] * TuneTracker never gets tired of peanut butter[16:05:50] * TuneTracker sends stippi a nice fresh plate[16:06:26] * TuneTracker prepares some frog legs for mmu_man[16:06:53] <stippi> TuneTracker: dict.leo.org has no results for "slather"[16:07:06] <TuneTracker> spread heavily[16:07:15] <stippi> alright![16:08:32] <stippi> dict.leo.org is even usable from within Haiku with N+[16:09:14] <stippi> btw, if anyone is trying to use NetPositive in Haiku, make sure you disable "flicker free display"[16:09:27] <stippi> ie, it works much better in what would flicker under BeOS[16:10:20] <TuneTracker> http://www.webster.com/dictionary/slather[16:10:49] <TuneTracker> bbiab[16:11:46] <stippi> even that site works with N+[16:11:55] <stippi> I wonder why larger downloads are not working so well...[16:15:05] *** thebolt has joined #haiku[16:15:37] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[16:22:42] *** thebolt has left #haiku[16:24:30] *** Ketsuban has quit IRC[16:24:31] <mmu_man> is it me or ubuntu is *really* memory hungry[16:24:46] *** Ketsuban has joined #haiku[16:24:50] <mmu_man> been eating the CD for half an hour and it's not done yet[16:29:02] <JBurton> which cd ?[16:29:07] <JBurton> ubuntu itself ?[16:32:34] *** stippi has quit IRC[16:33:19] <mmu_man> tyes[16:33:27] <mmu_man> it insists on starting as a live cd[16:33:33] <mmu_man> I don't care I just want an installer[16:33:51] <mmu_man> I have 192M that should be enough for anyone (ugh)[16:35:24] <JBurton> argh[16:35:31] <JBurton> not sure[16:35:54] <mmu_man> in the help at boot (F1) it says min 128M...[16:36:01] <mmu_man> I suppose they didn't check recently :)[16:36:11] <mmu_man> or they don't guarantee a boot time[16:36:21] <mmu_man> 3/4h now...[16:36:29] <mmu_man> still loading nautilus :D[16:39:00] <plfiorini> tsk.. gnome[16:39:16] <JBurton> hi plfiorini[16:39:21] <plfiorini> hi stefano[16:39:30] <JBurton> well last time I checked KDE I didn't like it so much[16:39:36] <JBurton> but it was looong time ago[16:39:52] <plfiorini> it's not that bad, anyway its gui sucks[16:40:20] <plfiorini> gnome has a better gui but kde is faster[16:40:29] <mmu_man> linux still has issues...[16:40:33] <plfiorini> less bugs, more integration, but ... bad gui[16:40:41] <plfiorini> bad font rendering[16:40:41] <mmu_man> the XEmacs in debian doesn't suppose D&D[16:40:46] <mmu_man> has bugs with dired[16:40:47] <mmu_man> ...[16:41:02] <mmu_man> even my BeOS port is more integrated =)[16:42:05] <plfiorini> i've lost any hope seeing kde 4[16:42:15] <JBurton> mmu_man not even the unarchiver (can't remember the name) supports D&D within Nautilus[16:42:20] <JBurton> it's just weird[16:42:24] <plfiorini> it will be just like vista[16:42:40] <plfiorini> in the beginning it shouldn't be a vista clone[16:43:48] <mmu_man> ok let's see how much a RAM stick for the laptop is...[16:43:54] <mmu_man> at the shop downstairs[16:44:05] <plfiorini> i didn't have problems with kubuntu 7.04[16:44:11] <plfiorini> maybe it's for my 2gb :)[16:44:50] <plfiorini> you know, with less than 2gb you can't run a desktop these days[16:45:34] <JBurton> erg[16:45:49] <JBurton> I only have 512 (shared with the graphics card) and Ubuntu 7.04 runs fine more or less[16:45:50] <JBurton> :P[16:46:31] <plfiorini> (ero ironico)[16:46:32] <plfiorini> :)[16:47:16] <JBurton> beh potevi anche non esserlo[16:47:28] <JBurton> Vista piu' o meno richiede quella quantita' x essere "usabile" :P[16:47:35] <DeadYak> mmu_man: yeah, Ubuntu's way is to give you a live CD desktop with the installer as a double click on the desktop :/[16:48:41] <mmu_man> yeah, stupid[16:49:03] <DeadYak> mmu_man: yes and no, at least you know before you install it if your hardware works :)[16:49:27] <mmu_man> only if you have a gig of ram[16:50:12] <JBurton> lol[16:51:18] <DeadYak> mmu_man: you'd need that to run it anyways :P[16:51:25] <DeadYak> mmu_man: unless you want to disable X and everything[16:51:43] <mmu_man> sux[16:51:59] <DeadYak> on a different note, 2.6.23 seems ok so far[16:52:27] <JBurton> on a different note, I have issues with my usb mouse since some time in ubuntu[16:53:04] <mmu_man> how come linux is sooo fast at building haiku and other stuff, and the desktops are 10 times slower than beos ?[16:53:25] <mmu_man> really bad design[16:54:04] <JBurton> eheh[16:54:38] <mmu_man> In file included from /home/revol/haiku/buildtools/trunk/gcc/gcc/crtstuff.c:68:[16:54:39] <mmu_man> /home/revol/haiku/buildtools/trunk/gcc/gcc/tsystem.h:90:19: error: stdio.h: No such file or directory[16:54:42] <mmu_man> :-([16:54:53] <mmu_man> cn't use m68k-atari-elf as a target for gcc :-([16:54:58] <JBurton> ahah[16:55:19] <plfiorini> JBurton: vista sucks only 500/700 mb here (with aero disabled obviously)[16:55:48] <JBurton> eheh obviously[16:55:51] <mmu_man> #include <stdio.h>[16:55:54] <mmu_man> /* All systems have this header. */[16:55:55] <mmu_man> lol[16:56:10] <plfiorini> mmm[16:56:26] <mmu_man> that's when building the crt stuff[16:56:31] <plfiorini> mmu_man: i didn't have this kind of problem on opensuse[16:56:49] <plfiorini> never got it right with ubuntu 'caus i always installed ubuntu 64bit[16:57:09] <plfiorini> but there shouldn't be any difference with opensuse[16:57:10] <mmu_man> plfiorini: you're not building for m68k :p[16:57:22] <plfiorini> mmu_man: yeah, i build for i386 :P[16:57:27] <mmu_man> plus that's in debian anyway[16:58:07] <IcePic> m68k for the win! =)[16:58:12] <plfiorini> how is going the ppc port? anyone working on it? i really would like to try haiku on my ibook g4[17:03:27] <mmu_man> it's building here[17:03:32] <mmu_man> with an old rev of binutiols[17:03:53] <mmu_man> just I couldn't boot the image in qemu, it probably needs a mac partition[17:04:04] <mmu_man> didn't really dig that[17:06:15] <plfiorini> i can dig[17:06:40] <plfiorini> i can't write code for kernel, app_server, etc... at least i can build and report problems[17:07:27] <plfiorini> i should install linux into my mac and build it, i just need to know what rev i should download[17:08:31] <plfiorini> anyway now i remember that if i build the gcc4 crosstools i should be able to build for ppc[17:09:03] <JBurton> yeah[17:09:21] <plfiorini> and i've got a g4 to check if haiku boots[17:10:19] <plfiorini> but unfortunately i can't send serial debug output - mac doesn't have serial ports :([17:10:19] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[17:20:41] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[17:23:50] *** guma has joined #haiku[17:27:23] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[17:28:42] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[17:30:47] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[17:38:31] <JBurton> off. Bye all[17:38:42] *** JBurton has quit IRC[17:44:09] *** magnetron has joined #haiku[17:47:11] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[17:56:17] *** emitrax_ has joined #haiku[17:56:24] *** emitrax has quit IRC[18:05:16] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[18:07:00] * wasosa__ is back (gone 07:56:14)[18:13:10] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[18:15:48] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[18:16:10] *** SprMa has quit IRC[18:16:15] <Lelldorin1> hi all[18:26:16] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[18:27:23] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[18:27:41] *** rhu has quit IRC[18:32:14] *** jevin has joined #haiku[18:33:33] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[18:33:52] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[18:36:10] *** BePower has joined #haiku[18:42:16] *** lorglas has quit IRC[18:49:38] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[19:02:27] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[19:02:42] *** rhu has joined #haiku[19:04:41] *** BePower has quit IRC[19:10:29] *** joltz has joined #haiku[19:10:30] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[19:23:30] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[19:24:43] *** Sil2100 has joined #haiku[19:24:49] <Sil2100> Hi there[19:25:18] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[19:25:19] <Stargater> re[19:25:22] <Sil2100> Hi[19:32:55] *** BePower has joined #haiku[19:33:34] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[19:38:42] *** [1]umccullough has joined #haiku[19:38:57] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[19:39:29] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[19:40:36] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[19:48:13] *** emitrax__ has joined #haiku[19:50:22] *** emitrax_ has quit IRC[19:55:02] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[19:55:31] <CIA-5> axeld * r22510 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/add-ons/kernel/kernelland_emu.cpp: Updated to latest kernel versions.[19:59:32] *** umccullough has quit IRC[19:59:32] *** [1]umccullough is now known as umccullough[20:01:29] *** Stargater has quit IRC[20:11:28] *** meisje has joined #haiku[20:12:28] *** Korli has joined #haiku[20:12:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Korli[20:18:04] *** el_gringo has quit IRC[20:19:43] *** meisje has quit IRC[20:19:56] *** meisje has joined #haiku[20:23:58] *** alpha-li1n has joined #haiku[20:33:35] *** Perndog has joined #haiku[20:41:01] *** alpha-lion has quit IRC[20:41:08] *** alpha-li1n is now known as alpha-lion[20:41:44] *** katisu has joined #haiku[20:42:36] *** BePower2 has joined #haiku[20:45:04] *** rgb has joined #haiku[20:46:56] *** Euver has joined #haiku[20:47:42] *** genkie has joined #haiku[20:48:53] <Perndog> weres the haiku?[20:53:20] *** mode2 has joined #haiku[20:53:41] *** genkie has quit IRC[20:58:44] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[20:58:45] *** katisu is now known as [Katisu][20:59:39] *** BePower has quit IRC[21:03:21] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[21:15:27] <JonathanThompson> Perndog, are you aware this is a channel for the Haiku OS, and not the 5-7-5 syllable form of poetry?[21:24:26] *** kokito has joined #haiku[21:29:48] <kokito> hello folks[21:31:07] <guma> Is there a special address that I can use to implement service discovery using multicast vs broadcast. Broadcast is not supported on some system anymore. Any one have idea?[21:37:09] *** nielx has joined #haiku[21:37:15] <nielx> hola[21:37:26] *** Sil2100 has quit IRC[21:37:45] <kokito> hola nielx[21:48:03] *** BePower2 has quit IRC[21:51:34] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[21:51:48] *** rgb has quit IRC[21:52:46] *** BePower has joined #haiku[21:54:39] *** meisje has quit IRC[21:55:07] *** emitrax__ has quit IRC[21:55:15] *** guma has quit IRC[22:01:36] *** Korli has quit IRC[22:05:54] *** Euver has quit IRC[22:06:17] *** joejaxx has quit IRC[22:08:04] *** pulkomandy has joined #haiku[22:09:25] <Ingenu> anyone who have windows and can run Portal from ValVe go get it[22:09:45] <BePower> ah[22:09:53] <BePower> i buy it when its avalible in stores[22:09:56] <Ingenu> it's the game I've been the most enthusiast about in about... maybe up to 7 years[22:11:33] *** joejaxx has joined #haiku[22:11:55] <geist> yeah, i hear it's pretty fun[22:11:59] <geist> a bit short, but fun[22:13:51] *** nielx has quit IRC[22:14:06] <DeadYak> geist: coworker beat it last night in about 6 hours[22:14:20] <DeadYak> geist: that doesn't include the crazy advanced levels it unlocks though[22:14:39] <geist> yeah I heard similar[22:20:38] *** tordek has joined #haiku[22:22:17] <tordek> hi[22:24:23] <mmu_man> plop[22:25:35] *** tordek has quit IRC[22:26:59] <pyCube> hi[22:28:29] <pyCube> man.. i gotta say, i am loving writing a "desktop" app.. havent done much besides web/server code for a couple years[22:41:51] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[22:42:47] *** oco has joined #haiku[22:44:34] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[22:47:08] *** rhu has quit IRC[22:47:39] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[23:00:25] *** emitrax has quit IRC[23:01:38] *** rhu has joined #haiku[23:02:41] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[23:03:29] *** joejaxx has quit IRC[23:06:19] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[23:10:29] <pulkomandy> +++[23:10:35] *** pulkomandy has quit IRC[23:21:18] *** emitrax has quit IRC[23:22:58] *** BePower has quit IRC[23:26:02] *** BuildFactory has joined #haiku[23:26:12] *** rhu has quit IRC[23:29:21] *** rhu has joined #haiku[23:34:17] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:35:21] * wasosa__ is away: going home[23:35:34] * wasosa__ is away: going away, not home[23:36:16] *** nielx has joined #haiku[23:40:40] * wasosa__ is back (gone 00:05:06)[23:43:20] *** pyCube has quit IRC[23:43:20] *** Cube-ness has quit IRC[23:43:22] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[23:43:27] *** pyCube__ has joined #haiku[23:53:59] *** magnetron has quit IRC[23:55:13] *** Perndog98 has joined #haiku