October 5, 2007 
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October 5, 2007 [00:00:48] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku[00:07:26] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC[00:08:59] *** MauriceK has quit IRC[00:11:41] *** myrkr has quit IRC[00:16:12] <CIA-5> korli * r22445 /haiku/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): removed former haiku_book and headersampler tool[00:17:58] *** rmhunter has quit IRC[00:23:30] *** rgb has quit IRC[00:24:04] <pyCube> ack.. i get to fix a hole in some drywall[00:25:39] *** steffen_f has quit IRC[00:28:50] *** Sikosis has joined #haiku[00:28:51] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Sikosis[00:29:06] *** nielx has quit IRC[00:32:59] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC[00:33:14] *** kennyjb402 has joined #haiku[00:46:28] *** etteyafed has quit IRC[00:49:02] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[00:49:02] *** pyCube has quit IRC[00:52:22] *** pyCube_ has left #haiku[00:52:28] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[00:57:29] *** _KeenEars_ has left #haiku[01:00:06] <pyCube_> i am gonna guess that there aren't many grateful dead fans here...[01:00:40] * pyCube_ pre-guesses[01:00:47] *** petterhj has quit IRC[01:01:09] *** witukind has quit IRC[01:13:13] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[01:14:06] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[01:15:38] *** SDr has joined #haiku[01:15:39] *** SDragon has quit IRC[01:16:34] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22446 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 6 dirs):[01:16:34] <CIA-5> Added an identify_file_system() hook to the FS modules. The boot loader[01:16:34] <CIA-5> does no longer give partitioning systems precedence over file systems.[01:16:34] <CIA-5> The one with the greater identification priority wins. ATM, if a file[01:16:34] <CIA-5> system wins, we still mount the first file system that recognized the[01:16:35] <CIA-5> partition at all, though.[01:24:45] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[01:27:52] *** petterhj has quit IRC[01:31:02] *** eric_j has quit IRC[01:36:53] *** umccullough_work has joined #haiku[01:36:58] *** MangoFusion has quit IRC[01:39:12] *** SprMa has quit IRC[01:47:24] *** eric_j has joined #haiku[01:48:21] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22447 /haiku/trunk/ (17 files in 8 dirs): (log message trimmed)[01:48:21] <CIA-5> * Added the partition size as parameter to the file and partitioning[01:48:21] <CIA-5> system initialize() hooks. It's often the only info about the[01:48:21] <CIA-5> partition one needs and thus locking the partition just to get it is[01:48:21] <CIA-5> no longer necessary.[01:48:22] <CIA-5> * intel partitioning system:[01:48:24] <CIA-5> - Removed passing around block sizes. We require 512 byte sectors[01:49:39] <plfiorini> i can't build a haiku image that bonefish commits :)[01:49:40] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[01:49:54] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[01:51:00] * plfiorini now trying qemu-kvm[01:52:23] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22448 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/disk_device_manager/jobs/KInitializeJob.cpp:[01:52:23] <CIA-5> * Cleanup.[01:52:23] <CIA-5> * Corrected checking of parameters (name).[01:52:23] <CIA-5> * Gracefully deals with disk systems that rescan after initialization,[01:52:23] <CIA-5> now.[01:53:52] <mmu_man> http://www.microsoft.com/en/us/default.aspx rotfl[01:54:18] <DeadYak> wow...that is so not inspirational[01:54:31] <DeadYak> I don't think bill could possibly look like a bigger nerd than he does in that picture[01:54:52] <plfiorini> but where does insipiration starts?[01:55:08] <mmu_man> in photoshop =)[01:55:13] <plfiorini> :)[01:55:35] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, i think that's the point :P[01:55:51] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: the point is to scare people away? :)[01:56:08] <umccullough_work> if that guy could actually do it... anyone can[01:56:15] <umccullough_work> (in quotes of course)[02:00:29] <plfiorini> mm i thought qemu-kvm was faster[02:00:40] <DeadYak> it should be[02:03:13] <plfiorini> now i would try to boot with vmware server[02:07:09] <plfiorini> yeah it's really fast[02:08:01] <rennj> virtual pc 2004 runs beos a little better then vmware[02:08:12] <plfiorini> i'm on linux[02:08:20] <rennj> yeah so am i[02:08:22] * plfiorini is finding a very easy issue[02:08:35] <plfiorini> does virtual pc run on linux?[02:08:39] <rennj> no[02:09:46] <umccullough_work> virtual pc is junk[02:09:49] <umccullough_work> you want vmware[02:09:56] <rennj> well the newer version are[02:10:12] <rennj> but that is still really the connectix version before m$ mucked it up[02:10:27] <rennj> why i said 2004 version[02:10:33] <umccullough_work> i've had much more realiable experiences in vmware[02:10:46] <umccullough_work> i've used 2004 quite a bit also...[02:10:58] <umccullough_work> I find that it works pretty well when running windows as a guest...[02:11:04] <umccullough_work> and... well that's it[02:11:22] <plfiorini> rennj: ah ok, i don't know virtual pc so if you say 2004 that doesn't says much to me :)[02:11:24] <umccullough_work> anyhow, i guess that's my opinion[02:11:48] <Sikosis> umccullough_work: 2nd that ... virtual pc is total crapola[02:12:02] <Sikosis> we even bought it at work[02:12:19] <plfiorini> mmm pulse says i'm on athlon 64 1ghz[02:12:24] <umccullough_work> we're a microsoft certified solution provider... some of my coworkers use vpc instead of vmware...it makes me cringe[02:12:39] <umccullough_work> plfiorini, it will report whatever processor you have[02:12:51] <rennj> vmware 1 to 4 was not anything to right home about[02:13:07] <plfiorini> umccullough_work: i didn't know my cpu was 1ghz, all those XYZ+ are weird[02:13:20] <umccullough_work> plfiorini, yeah - is it a 1700?[02:13:29] <plfiorini> umccullough_work: it gives you the illusion your cpu is 3800mhz[02:13:31] <umccullough_work> or maybe a 2400?[02:13:38] <rennj> now the new vmplayer2 is nice[02:13:39] <plfiorini> it's a 3800+[02:13:40] <umccullough_work> oh, you have a 3800+?[02:13:46] <rennj> usb2.0 finally[02:13:47] <umccullough_work> i have one of those in the server next to me... :)[02:13:52] <plfiorini> :)[02:14:07] <DeadYak> my 3200+ is at 1GHz atm[02:14:12] <DeadYak> but it has powernowd active[02:14:20] <DeadYak> so it does kinda depend on when y ou ask :/[02:14:25] <plfiorini> hehe :)[02:14:52] <umccullough_work> yeah, my 3800+ here says it's 2.4ghz[02:15:15] <DeadYak> note that mine is a Venice core[02:15:29] <DeadYak> in Haiku it says 2.1GHz iirc[02:16:26] <plfiorini> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1098 seems a good task for the future, is helios the only application available nowadays?[02:17:17] <DeadYak> well, that or CDRecord :P[02:17:30] <rennj> i burnt dvd with beos[02:17:43] <rennj> mkisofs | dd just like growisofs does[02:17:49] <rennj> dvd+rw-tools[02:18:29] <rennj> better to port cdrtools-prodvd over[02:18:34] *** Darknesss has quit IRC[02:18:46] <plfiorini> i like very much k3b[02:19:02] <plfiorini> but i don't think it's the beos way to burn cds[02:20:11] <DeadYak> k3b's decent[02:20:12] <plfiorini> i mean: right click on a ISO file and select burn for example[02:20:41] <plfiorini> select a bunch of folders, drang and drop onto the empty cd-r icon and burn[02:21:26] <plfiorini> the system will copy the data in a temporary folder and then make an iso and burn when you decide to burn the disc[02:21:44] <rennj> k3b is just a gui frontend to those tools[02:21:51] <rennj> cdrtools/dvd+rw-tools[02:23:14] <plfiorini> yes, i was just thinking to already known gui programs because i don't expect a haiku user will love to burn cds using cdrtools :P[02:23:26] <plfiorini> so a gui program is needed[02:23:57] <rennj> and the only reason i think dvd+rw-tools became popular was cause schilly had license keyfile on prodvd version for so long people started hacking up cdrecord and dvd+rw-tools[02:36:04] <plfiorini> dd if=generated/haiku.image of=/dev/sda5[02:36:28] <plfiorini> is this sufficient to put haiku image to a real partition?[02:36:39] <plfiorini> obviously i configured grub[02:38:33] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[02:40:57] <rennj> you got bfs support in linux kernel[02:41:01] <rennj> mount the image[02:41:11] <rennj> cp it over[02:41:33] <rennj> and is /dev/sda4 ah bfs slice[02:41:38] <rennj> grr[02:42:01] <rennj> that tag on partition bfs[02:44:37] <rennj> zcat /proc/config.gz |grep -i befs[02:45:01] <rennj> or you could modprobe -l see if you got kernel module[02:45:45] <rennj> i dont know much about haiku and the jam builds[02:46:33] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[02:46:39] <rennj> aahh[02:46:45] <rennj> hehe you left[02:46:56] <plfiorini> i got a problem with X[02:47:02] <rennj> you got befs support in linux kernel[02:47:05] <rennj> zcat /proc/config.gz |grep -i befs[02:47:12] <plfiorini> checking[02:47:26] <plfiorini> yup suse has got it[02:47:46] <rennj> so mount -t befs -o loop the bfsimage[02:47:59] <rennj> course /dev/sda5 needs to be formated bfs[02:48:17] <plfiorini> mmm[02:48:22] <plfiorini> mumble mumble[02:48:22] <rennj> see dd would handle that all for you if it works[02:48:33] <rennj> since your just replace the whole slice[02:48:48] <rennj> but i bet your partition would not end on proper bounds anymore[02:48:50] <plfiorini> but my slice must be 105mb right?[02:48:55] <plfiorini> yep[02:50:44] <plfiorini> so dd should work right? the problem is that i had some problems booting with zeta (but i should try more boot options to be sure)[02:51:01] <rennj> hehe zeta what a scam[02:51:20] <umccullough_work> be fs support in linux is readonly right?[02:51:24] <plfiorini> yes[02:51:37] <umccullough_work> you have bfs support in windows xp now :D (sorta)[02:51:38] <plfiorini> and there are no tools to create bfs filesystems[02:51:45] <umccullough_work> well, there are...[02:51:46] *** Stargater has quit IRC[02:51:47] <plfiorini> still readonly[02:51:50] <umccullough_work> but they're in the haiku tree![02:51:53] <rennj> ahh thats lame[02:52:00] <rennj> i thought linux had write support[02:52:07] <umccullough_work> nope..[02:52:29] <rennj> well you could burn a cd if hauki has the makefloppy command[02:52:42] <rennj> like beos had[02:52:55] <umccullough_work> anyhow, you can actually copy files to the haiku partition using fs_shell[02:53:26] <plfiorini> yeah found[02:53:30] <rennj> building a bootable beos cd was easy, not sure about haiku[02:53:38] <plfiorini> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=generated/objects/linux/lib generated/objects/linux/x86/r elease/tools/bfs_shell/bfs_shell does the job[02:53:43] <umccullough_work> slightly less easy for haiku[02:53:54] <rennj> makebootfloppy -cd -preserve[02:54:02] <rennj> haiku has it or not?[02:54:04] <umccullough_work> i've not had much luck with it[02:54:20] <rennj> you know how to convert to el torito image[02:54:25] <umccullough_work> there's a makebootfloppy script...[02:54:26] <rennj> so it works on cdrom[02:54:37] <rennj> yeah it came with beos[02:54:42] <plfiorini> there was a script to build livecds[02:54:50] <umccullough_work> the livecd script only runs on R5/zeta[02:54:51] <rennj> i dont need a script[02:54:56] <rennj> i know the commands[02:55:03] <plfiorini> it takes a generated haiku.image and builds the boot trac[02:55:05] <rennj> i built tons of beos boot cd's[02:55:46] <rennj> if you want i can paste my old instructions[02:55:50] <rennj> 11 steps[02:56:22] <rennj> oh 17 if you count using cdburner app[02:56:52] <rennj> but its instruction on how to do it on beos, not haiku[02:57:21] <rennj> makebootfloppy -cd -preserve -----> creates the floppy.img /tmp[02:57:38] <rennj> then you convert that to el torito image[02:57:40] <umccullough_work> that's the step that probably won't work properly[02:58:00] <rennj> 6) mkisofs -b floppy.img -c boot.catalog -r -J -V BeOS_Boot -o boot.img /boot/home/bootcd/[02:58:12] <rennj> creates of file called boot.img[02:58:21] <rennj> el torito first track you put on cdrom[02:58:40] <rennj> second track is your bfsimage[02:59:13] <rennj> course you need the floppy.img in the dir /boot/home/bootcd/[03:00:13] <plfiorini> i'm going to try haiku on real hardware if it boots[03:00:22] <plfiorini> cya[03:00:27] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[03:00:38] <rennj> yeah ill wait till its out of beta[03:00:41] *** kennyjb402 has quit IRC[03:01:03] *** DaaT has quit IRC[03:01:25] <umccullough_work> out of beta?[03:01:35] <umccullough_work> you might waiting for another year then...[03:01:40] <rennj> hehe[03:01:41] <umccullough_work> just a guess...[03:01:44] <rennj> like i care[03:01:47] <umccullough_work> considering it's not even alpha yet :D[03:01:56] <umccullough_work> well, you must *sorta* care if you're actually here in #haiku ;)[03:02:12] <rennj> i just came over here cause beshare has very few people anymore[03:02:21] <pyCube_> maybe he meant to say: like, i care[03:02:31] <rennj> pyCube[03:02:38] <rennj> thats an old nick i remember[03:02:46] <rennj> mmu_man[03:02:47] <rennj> Zaranthos[03:02:58] <umccullough_work> i used to use a different nick on beshare ;)[03:03:00] <rennj> i got some old beshare logs from couple years ago[03:03:15] <rennj> looncratz was in the other day[03:03:16] <umccullough_work> A nick I don't use *anywhere* now :D[03:03:18] <rennj> hehe[03:03:33] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[03:03:42] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC[03:04:29] <plfiorini> mmm it doesn't boot[03:04:48] <rennj> fdisk mark the partition tag as bfs[03:05:00] <umccullough_work> 'eb'[03:05:06] <plfiorini> anyway if i mount /dev/sda5 i see a valid haiku file system and the haiku.image file works on qemu as the haiku.vmdk in vmware[03:05:09] <plfiorini> yes i did it[03:05:20] <umccullough_work> plfiorini, how did you put it on the partition?[03:05:25] <plfiorini> /dev/sda5 16803 16815 104390+ eb BeOS fs[03:06:27] <umccullough_work> plfiorini, did you dd it to the partition?[03:06:58] <plfiorini> dd if=generated/haiku.image of=/dev/sda5[03:07:22] <plfiorini> if i mount -t befs /dev/sda5 /mnt i see some folders[03:07:23] <umccullough_work> did you run makebootable on it?[03:07:33] <rennj> you know vmware allows you to take ownership of physical partitions[03:07:38] <rennj> just do it that way[03:07:41] <umccullough_work> there are two bytes in the boot block of the partition that specify the offset of the partition[03:07:56] <umccullough_work> if you just dd it, those don't get set properly[03:08:12] <plfiorini> that's the problem[03:08:13] <umccullough_work> sorry, 4 bytes[03:09:09] <rennj> you could boot it up in vmware and copy it to the physcical partition[03:09:32] <umccullough_work> which would still not set the boot block properly[03:09:45] <umccullough_work> rennj, there is no makebfs in Haiku yet[03:09:49] <rennj> heh[03:10:08] <rennj> i figured he had those tools availble[03:10:23] <umccullough_work> they only work from the build environment now :([03:12:01] <plfiorini> mmm the makebootable i built from haiku always prints the help screen[03:12:07] <umccullough_work> the lack of makebootable, makebfs, and DriveSetup for Haiku is the biggest hurdle preventing an installable livecd[03:12:53] <umccullough_work> plfiorini, did you try using jam run ":<build>makebootable" /dev/sda5 ?[03:13:07] <umccullough_work> supposedly that's the way to run it...[03:13:11] <umccullough_work> but i haven't had much luck with that either[03:14:37] <plfiorini> yep![03:14:40] <plfiorini> thanks a lot[03:14:55] <umccullough_work> it boots?[03:15:02] <plfiorini> hehe wait[03:15:05] <umccullough_work> ah ;)[03:15:06] <plfiorini> makebootable works[03:15:13] <umccullough_work> well, that's good anyway ;)[03:15:30] <plfiorini> 512 bytes, like the mbr[03:15:44] <umccullough_work> yeah, basically just the first block of the partition[03:16:11] <plfiorini> as this seems to be ok, now i reboot :)[03:16:14] <plfiorini> anyway thanks guys[03:16:21] <umccullough_work> i knew exactly where the those 4 bytes were at one point ;)[03:16:30] <umccullough_work> cuz i screwed up my boot block once and had to fix it by hand[03:17:01] <plfiorini> hehhe in fact i was going to get a hex editor and edit the first bytes by hand :)[03:17:15] <plfiorini> but anyway i don't know what i need to write...[03:17:34] <umccullough_work> i compared two BFS partitions side-by-side until i found out which bytes were different[03:17:47] <umccullough_work> and of course, they're reverse-ordered[03:18:05] <plfiorini> ok it's time to bood[03:18:10] <plfiorini> see you in some minutes[03:18:11] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[03:26:04] *** umccullough_work has quit IRC[03:26:16] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[03:26:27] <plfiorini> PANIC: did not find any boot partition[03:26:38] <plfiorini> at least i saw the haiku logo[03:26:42] <plfiorini> :D[03:28:12] <plfiorini> i don't have any serial port though[03:28:53] <plfiorini> so i can't read what is happening[03:29:24] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[03:30:02] <AlienSoldier> anynone ready to take my personal beos ultimate question about sound card?[03:31:51] <AlienSoldier> mmu_man: you hown a PCI64 or 128 card (those 1370 chipset)?[03:32:40] <mmu_man> I think I have a 1371 around[03:32:42] <mmu_man> ESS ?[03:33:20] <AlienSoldier> they report as ensonic in mediasetting[03:34:10] <rennj> Ensoniq AudioPCI ES137x[03:34:20] <mmu_man> ESS = Ensoniq yes[03:34:26] <AlienSoldier> i always got around my problem with ISA SB16 card, but now i can't hide anymore as i don't have such slot[03:34:54] <mmu_man> OSS should support that[03:35:00] <AlienSoldier> mmu_man ever got a situation where the sound get crackling after many use, ultimatly requiring a media restart?[03:35:01] <rennj> oss is dead[03:35:03] <rennj> alsa[03:35:04] <mmu_man> but it didn't like the emulated ones in qemu[03:35:14] <mmu_man> rennj certainly not[03:35:19] <mmu_man> + alsa is unportable[03:35:22] <AlienSoldier> btw i talk about R5[03:35:25] <rennj> well for linux oss is dead[03:35:38] <mmu_man> not so sure...[03:35:39] <rennj> alsa+dmix or jacks[03:36:02] <mmu_man> oss with vmix and libsalsa...[03:36:07] <mmu_man> didn't try though[03:36:13] <AlienSoldier> i should have said log time instead of manyuse[03:36:16] <mmu_man> but it works nice in BeOS now :)[03:36:18] <AlienSoldier> *long[03:36:31] <mmu_man> sometimes it happens yes[03:36:38] <mmu_man> maybe it's some value overflow[03:36:43] <AlienSoldier> any known fix to that?[03:36:58] <mmu_man> no idea[03:37:08] <AlienSoldier> i initially tought it was related to timming as it seem to drift over looooooong period of time[03:37:39] <AlienSoldier> i have that problem on 3 PC now, and i did try 4-5 card, same result[03:38:24] <AlienSoldier> imy friend was saying is PC was fine, but he was not running the PC long enough[03:38:33] <rennj> you check old betips server audio section[03:38:53] <AlienSoldier> humm, i did read many tips but perhaps i missed one[03:39:35] <AlienSoldier> i even tried to install the mediakit beta 1 as it seem to contain a different es137 driver, but it seem the installer install nothing :([03:39:35] <rennj> all my vm's have sound but beos vm[03:39:46] <rennj> you know vmware timekeeping docs talk about beos[03:40:38] <rennj> AlienSoldier you remember me from beshare?[03:40:44] <AlienSoldier> any sugestion to easy to find cheapos PCI card that "ALWAYS" work fine in BeOS and have the best chance to work also in haiku?[03:40:57] <DeadYak> my SBLive PCI's recognized np in both[03:41:00] <rennj> sblive i had worked well[03:41:09] <AlienSoldier> rennj yes, i'm not that alzimer?[03:41:12] <DeadYak> older one though, Emu10K1[03:41:14] <rennj> hehe[03:41:32] <rennj> yeah that was mine to, the old one[03:41:33] <plfiorini> rennj: audio works here (zeta 1.2)[03:41:34] <AlienSoldier> recognised yes, but do they corrupt the sound over time?[03:41:52] <DeadYak> dunno, it's been a long time since I used BeOS as primary OS[03:41:57] <DeadYak> especially R5[03:42:20] <AlienSoldier> i did try zeta Rc3 once and the problem was gone[03:42:23] <rennj> audio works in vmware plfiorini[03:42:28] <AlienSoldier> but i prefer to use R5[03:42:29] <rennj> just crackles allot[03:42:54] <plfiorini> rennj: r5 should work too, under ubuntu i got it working but audio is distorted[03:43:11] <rennj> eh?[03:43:16] <rennj> what are you talking about now[03:43:23] <AlienSoldier> well i guess i shoudl try to find a SBlive then[03:43:43] <rennj> plfiorini im talking about vmware beos vm audio[03:43:55] <rennj> timekeeping in beos under vmware is mucked[03:44:02] <rennj> cpu-fix on bebits[03:44:13] <rennj> that issue its suppose to address...[03:44:30] <rennj> wish i could find the vmware patch[03:44:37] <rennj> i have it on cdrom, but its offsite[03:45:01] <rennj> why my audio is messed is same reason[03:45:23] <rennj> like if i play 5038 it sound goods, but comes in and out[03:45:44] <rennj> go read the vmware timekeeping pdf[03:45:53] <AlienSoldier> what is the difference between a SBlive and the PCI64 and PCI128?[03:45:58] <rennj> they specifically talk about beos and how it does its ticks[03:46:12] <plfiorini> rennj: i mean: had a lot of audio problems with vmware and qemu under ubuntu, but now on opensuse the zeta vmware machines works fine[03:46:21] <rennj> hehe[03:46:32] <rennj> i dont use those distros man[03:46:34] <rennj> i run ramos[03:46:37] <rennj> i built[03:46:46] <rennj> why i use vmplayer2[03:46:47] <geist> i read the news today oh boy[03:46:53] <rennj> i got that down to 43MB[03:47:25] <rennj> my whole os boots and loads into ram[03:47:32] <rennj> only thing on disk is vm's[03:47:43] <geist> about a lucky man you made the grade[03:48:15] <plfiorini> why do you want to complicate your life running a custom distro?[03:48:19] <rennj> and it isnt dsl, puppylinux crap[03:48:26] <rennj> hehe[03:48:32] <rennj> or busybox ulibc[03:49:04] <plfiorini> and.... 43mb with X11 (and twm+xterm i guess)?[03:49:10] <rennj> 308MB on boot, that kernel, 50MB of cli utils, X windows, fvmw2, mplayer, firefox, vncserver and vmplayer2[03:49:35] <rennj> and no vesa or tinyX[03:49:40] <rennj> fglrx accelerated[03:50:13] <rennj> 43MB is vmplayer2[03:50:18] <rennj> i stripped it down[03:50:22] <rennj> it way bigger[03:51:12] <AlienSoldier> sometime i wonder if any PCI card work at al in BeOS :([03:51:30] <AlienSoldier> *sound card[03:51:35] <JonathanThompson> The RealTek 8169-based card I have does, AlienSoldier.[03:51:43] <rennj> haha[03:51:49] <rennj> JonathanThompson i remember you[03:51:52] * JonathanThompson tries to keep vision focused from spins[03:51:54] <rennj> least the nick[03:52:07] <rennj> Repairmanjack[03:52:08] <AlienSoldier> JonathanThompson what sound card you you have btw?[03:52:16] <JonathanThompson> I normally wouldn't be home right now, but I managed to get hit just right with cold virus that has hit my inner ear :P[03:52:49] <JonathanThompson> PCI 128 built-in, an ISA SB AWE64 Gold, on this machine.[03:53:43] <JonathanThompson> The built-in PCI128 uses ES 1371 mutation, and it doesn't even fully work like you''d think under Windows all the time.[03:54:25] <AlienSoldier> humm, perhaps 1371 would be better than 1370 for me, i think 1371 are related to some ac97 stuff[03:54:28] <JonathanThompson> (In other words, that sound card hardware is an utter POS regardless of OS)[03:55:15] <rennj> oh and plfiorini this is a laptop im doing this all on, so its even more of bitch to do cause of crap acpi[03:55:18] <JonathanThompson> Just woke up from some funny dreams where in public places, there were nearly printed signs addressed specifically to me by name :P[03:55:23] <AlienSoldier> now, i really wonder where i will find an SBlive in town, i only ever saw 64 or 128 sold around here[03:55:36] <JonathanThompson> "Jonathan, Yuma is peaeeful." was on one.[03:55:36] *** joshin has left #haiku[03:56:11] <plfiorini> rennj: compliments, but what's the point of running a stripped down distro?[03:56:31] <plfiorini> at least all those opensuse and ubuntu try to make linux working[03:56:31] <rennj> cause it doesnt have the bloat of other distros[03:56:41] <rennj> and i know that its built the way i want it[03:56:45] <kad77> JT: been a little heavy on the cold medicine, eh? ;)[03:57:05] <JonathanThompson> Meclizine, one dose (think that's the correct spelling: need to check)[03:57:13] <JonathanThompson> As of yet, though, it doesn't seem to have helped.[03:57:23] <JonathanThompson> That's supposed to help with the vertigo.[03:57:41] <kad77> Ahh. Wonder if the air sickness med would either[03:57:44] <plfiorini> rennj: yes but a lot of the bloat comes from a complete desktop environment[03:58:01] <JonathanThompson> My sleep "schedule" is thoroughly messed up right now, and with the vertigo first knocking me out of a dream at 3 a.m. yesterday, that didn't help.[03:58:04] <rennj> well where you using coputers in 1980 plfiorini[03:58:12] <rennj> well where you using computers in 1980 plfiorini[03:58:33] <rennj> see if been doing this crap since then[03:58:46] <kad77> Well, even if you are tired your sense of humor is still coming out through the dreams apparently. :)[03:58:53] <plfiorini> in 1980 i wasn't even born[03:58:55] <rennj> and ive watched solaris, and linux bloat along with winblows crap[03:59:10] <rennj> you know i ran linux back before it was even glibc and elf[03:59:16] <rennj> a.out and libc crap[03:59:26] <JonathanThompson> I'm not certain if it was 80 or 81, but IIRC it was about that time I started working with/on/around computers, starting with Tandy TRS-80's in elementary school, complete with cassette tape drives :)[03:59:38] <rennj> trash 80[03:59:45] <rennj> timex sinclair z80[03:59:50] <rennj> ti 99/4a[03:59:59] <rennj> commadore vic 20[04:00:10] <JonathanThompson> Yes, and it wqs frustrating to have to adjust the tape player volume and retry loading the program :P[04:00:11] <rennj> ran ibm token ring network[04:01:07] <rennj> i wanted a ramos back in the 80's or rom chip like acorn did[04:01:32] <rennj> plus i remember 5MB and 10MB harddrive plfiorini[04:01:43] <rennj> not GB but MB[04:02:00] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: feeling better?[04:02:06] <rennj> anyway i got 2GB of ram in this laptop plfiorini[04:02:20] <JonathanThompson> Not sure I'm noticing any meaningful progress yet, DeadYak.[04:02:20] <rennj> and can run 3vm's without swap besides the bare metal os[04:02:21] <kad77> well, some pricing is still on par with the 80's .... 256mb Cisco brand CF? $750.00 USD[04:02:22] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku[04:02:45] <JonathanThompson> Fortunately, I have a friend that doesn't at this time have a regular day-time job, that's taking care of his elderly parents.[04:03:38] <JonathanThompson> I'm in no condition I could reasonably expect to be able to drive without it being incredibly exciting in all the wrong ways, since I've got to deal with merging onto a busy section of I-90 where people are idiots and don't know how to drive.[04:03:48] <JonathanThompson> It's like playing I-90 Frogger in the best of times.[04:05:02] <JonathanThompson> I was told by the doctor's office I might have this (the vertigo symptoms) another 2 weeks (I originally typed the weeks without the w, which fits) ![04:05:09] <plfiorini> rennj: the most ancient pc i have ever used was this http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/ibmpcportable.jpg[04:05:26] <JonathanThompson> Ah, yes:[04:05:29] <DeadYak> I remember those :)[04:05:39] <JonathanThompson> "Portable" back in the time where if it had a handle on it, it qualified :)[04:05:41] <rennj> whats that an 8088 pc xt[04:06:01] <rennj> pc jr was 8086[04:06:07] <plfiorini> yes 8088[04:06:08] <plfiorini> portable[04:06:12] <JonathanThompson> Like the original KayPro's (I think) that had a small CRT in them, and were "portable"[04:06:17] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: I distinctly remember those being referred to as "Luggables"[04:06:30] <plfiorini> yes that was portable but it's really heavy[04:06:33] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: I seem to recall a company called Dolch being big on making that style of portable back in the day[04:06:41] <JonathanThompson> Well, depends if you asked reviewers or manufacturers, DeadYak :P[04:06:56] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: yeah, this was definitely a review-side label :P[04:06:56] <JonathanThompson> Never heard of them in the US, DeadYak.[04:07:01] <DeadYak> they were in the US though[04:07:15] <DeadYak> I remember reading about them in Computer Shopper[04:07:19] <JonathanThompson> I think that'd be the KayPro here, or was it Compaq.... Oh well.[04:07:22] <DeadYak> back when that was like 700 pages[04:07:38] <rennj> compshopper[04:07:41] <rennj> classic[04:07:44] <DeadYak> rennj: aye[04:07:46] <rennj> bbs[04:07:55] <JonathanThompson> Yeah, I was one of those geeks in junior high/high school that'd ride my bike to specific bookstore, and read one of those, without buying the darn thing.[04:08:03] <rennj> they use to have pages of bbs numbers[04:08:14] <pyCube_> i used to have an hp 3000 minicomputer.. refridgerator sized cabinet with a cylon invader looking harddrive, an external desk sized tape drive, about 6 terminals, and boxes of various cards for the terms[04:08:20] <rennj> you know fidonet is still around[04:08:31] <rennj> so is a couple of gopher servers[04:08:44] <pyCube_> the fron panel cracked me up.. http://www.computermuseum.org.uk/pictures/HP_3000_series_III.jpg[04:08:47] <rennj> hp 3000 is a good computer[04:09:00] <rennj> nonstop came out of that design team[04:09:31] <DeadYak> pyCube_: reminds me of that guy in here who was asking if anyone wanted a PDP-10 I think it was[04:09:41] <pyCube_> i will never forget the forehead slap and eye roll my mom produced when she came home from work that day[04:10:00] <kad77> it makes ice too ma[04:10:54] <rennj> well the 1983 ibm system 36 i ran had 512KB ram, like 30 dumb terminals and 8 dot matrix printers[04:11:13] <rennj> whole office ran on that box[04:11:21] <rennj> real work got done[04:11:27] <rennj> in 512KB[04:11:34] <rennj> token ring sucked though[04:12:29] *** jevin has quit IRC[04:13:47] <rennj> thats why im pretty sick plfiorini of 3 to 4 GB of os crap on my harddrive[04:13:57] <rennj> tons of setuids setgids[04:14:42] <rennj> having 5 or 6 apps that do the same job[04:15:07] <rennj> oh and now most os's phone home to check for updates[04:15:52] <rennj> then we have to add that most linux distro's dont keep it clean but patch the hell out of upstream sources[04:15:55] <plfiorini> i agree but i gave up, i take my opensuse linux until i will be able to boot into a working haiku desktop[04:16:05] <rennj> suse is fine[04:16:14] <rennj> nasa new supercompter will probably run it[04:16:26] *** jevin has joined #haiku[04:16:29] <rennj> old columbia supercomputer runs novell suse[04:16:34] <plfiorini> 10.3 seems better then previous versions[04:16:35] <mmu_man> zz[04:16:40] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[04:16:47] <plfiorini> it loads faster and yast is faster too[04:17:14] *** jevin has quit IRC[04:17:45] <plfiorini> but suse don't keep it clean too[04:18:19] <rennj> i have only 2 files i think on this box that are 10MB[04:18:32] <rennj> everything else is below that in size[04:18:45] <plfiorini> that's how linux is supposed to be, it's in its DNA[04:18:48] <rennj> fglrx and firefox are biggest files[04:18:55] <rennj> ati accelerated driver[04:19:38] <rennj> i have the list and the md5sums of all the files[04:19:50] <rennj> not like i worry about hackers or virus or worms[04:20:00] <rennj> vm has all the real data[04:20:42] <rennj> and the kicker is even with 3vms and baremetal os, this laptop is 80% idle[04:21:43] <rennj> idle : 5d 3:27:19.18 80.7%[04:21:53] <rennj> uptime: 6d 8:59:01.55[04:22:08] <plfiorini> 86% idle here with Xgl, compiz-fusion, zeta on vmware, amarok playing and firefox[04:22:31] <rennj> yeah well this is celeron m 1700mhz[04:22:40] <rennj> no speedstep[04:22:43] <plfiorini> :)[04:23:02] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC[04:23:10] <rennj> i have 3 vm's[04:23:17] <rennj> solaris, freebsd, beos[04:23:38] <rennj> freebsd is really my main system[04:23:51] <rennj> cause all my data is on external usb driver encrypted[04:24:09] <rennj> someday ill switch to truecrypt[04:24:20] <plfiorini> freebsd is very nice[04:24:47] <plfiorini> memory management seems better to me, at least it behaves better than linux[04:24:52] <rennj> yeah well this is old 5.4 i was running on celeron 333mhz[04:24:57] <rennj> i moved it to vmware[04:25:09] <AlienSoldier> anyone was ever able to install mediakit beta 1? it say instalation done here but it seem the es137 driver is kept unchanged on my system, and the about don't say 5.0.4[04:25:38] <AlienSoldier> perhaps i don't have the right package[04:25:39] <plfiorini> i tried only freebsd 5, at that time i had some hardware compatibility issue, don't remember exactly[04:25:40] <rennj> how about man pages plfiorini[04:25:43] <plfiorini> oh shit[04:26:32] <rennj> fbsd and solaris have good documentation and good man pages[04:26:50] <plfiorini> i am not that kind of person anymore[04:27:01] <plfiorini> i read documentation but i don't want to fight with the os[04:27:14] <rennj> well i remember a time before internet[04:27:26] <rennj> i had only documents to read or man pages[04:27:34] <plfiorini> me too[04:27:51] <rennj> anyway i got a movie queue up[04:27:58] <plfiorini> the first time i installed linux (long before the first gui installer), i knew only the cd command[04:28:06] <rennj> http://www.ovguide.com[04:28:15] <rennj> good site to find those streaming movies[04:28:20] <plfiorini> because cd was available also on dos[04:28:52] <plfiorini> so i navigated the file system and then i learned some commands, found documentation and man pages[04:29:39] <plfiorini> it wasn't fun before internet[04:30:20] <rennj> sure it was[04:30:27] <rennj> tons of bbs fun to be had[04:30:36] <rennj> compuserve had stuff to[04:30:57] <plfiorini> bbs was banned in my home after the first bill[04:31:02] <rennj> 80's and 90's where good years for me[04:31:15] <rennj> now im so sick of the bullshit industry[04:31:49] *** jevin has joined #haiku[04:32:08] <rennj> anyway later, i got movie queued up[04:32:32] <plfiorini> 4:32am i think it's time to sleep[04:33:08] <plfiorini> next week i need to investigate why haiku doesn't boot[04:36:22] *** AlienSoldier is now known as AlienSoldieraway[04:52:22] *** jevin has quit IRC[05:08:50] *** jevin has joined #haiku[05:15:13] *** jevin_ has joined #haiku[05:29:40] *** jevin has quit IRC[05:41:48] *** kokito has quit IRC[05:44:02] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[05:44:59] *** Stargater has quit IRC[05:47:47] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[06:10:18] <umccullough> eh? ESS != Ensoniq...[06:10:47] <umccullough> common misunderstanding...[06:13:23] <kad77> i think ppl are long gone. :)[06:21:07] <umccullough> oh well, at least i've said my piece :)[06:22:05] * umccullough starts up his 15 virtual machines again[06:22:33] <geist> well hey now[06:22:39] <geist> lets go easy on the VMs there[06:22:50] <umccullough> nah, this is on the C2D E6750 w/2gb ram ;)[06:23:01] <umccullough> it can take it :D[06:23:11] * umccullough decides to add 5 more just to prove it to himself[06:23:50] <umccullough> and it's running a few 100% cpu processes at the same time[06:25:02] <DeadYak> "Make your computer a space heater in 3 easy steps!"[06:25:10] <kad77> whats the cpu temp at? (curious)[06:25:11] <DeadYak> grrrr[06:25:13] * DeadYak curses BMenu[06:25:18] <umccullough> yeah, my wife was just giving me an earful about that[06:25:25] <umccullough> kad77, actually it runs around 33C[06:25:29] <kad77> nice[06:25:52] <kad77> I just had ventilation added to a server room, the cpu was 136 F[06:26:30] <kad77> only on one of the units though, I think it was an older xeon[06:26:36] * umccullough doesn't measure CPU temps in F[06:26:55] <kad77> I didn't measure it in F, but I remembered it in F :D[06:27:20] <umccullough> 57C - that's not too bad actually[06:27:34] <umccullough> that's probably around the upper range of what i consider OK[06:27:57] <kad77> its survivable, but it was higher on the the threshold. it's 110 now, which I am fine with[06:28:06] <umccullough> i had my P4 hit 90C before it shutoff once[06:28:11] <kad77> yeesh[06:28:26] <umccullough> that was after i disabled the "overheat protection" in the bios[06:28:38] <umccullough> i couldn't figure out why it was running so slow[06:28:49] <kad77> should've had a vid on that. :D i think there is a burning amd vid on youtube[06:28:51] <umccullough> when it hit 70C, it clocked down with the protection[06:29:10] <umccullough> then i realized the heatsink wasn't on properly ;)[06:29:15] <kad77> they left out temp sensors on a line of chips[06:30:28] *** jevin_ has quit IRC[06:30:50] <kad77> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHH6u56iA0E&search=athlon[06:31:38] <umccullough> i can't watch youtube here[06:31:41] <umccullough> too slow[06:32:34] <kad77> the AMD hit 698 F[06:32:40] <DeadYak> 698?[06:32:49] <kad77> smoking and burning, measured with a laser temp sensor[06:32:49] <DeadYak> ouch[06:32:53] <umccullough> whee![06:32:56] <kad77> :D[06:33:08] <DeadYak> can't imagine the fumes from that were pleasant[06:33:23] <kad77> burning silicon ... mmm[06:33:31] <umccullough> 370C?[06:33:35] <kad77> yep[06:33:38] <umccullough> damn...[06:34:05] <kad77> they had a sempron that hit 560 F or so too[06:34:40] <kad77> umc: you can use a flv downloader site for a link once in a while[06:35:02] <kad77> mplayer will play pretty much any format thrown at it[06:36:23] <kad77> anyone with with cisco voip gear?[06:36:29] <kad77> with = work with[06:38:20] <Karina```> this c2d will quite happily get well into the 90's C with the systems default fan behavior... stupid Apple[06:38:38] <kad77> coyotos kernel is bootable, qemu image available[06:40:35] <DeadYak> Karina```: fan behavior or piss poor thermal grease application?[06:41:37] <DeadYak> they've had issues with that in the past[06:41:58] <umccullough> i seem to recall apple overdosed the grease on those[06:41:59] * DeadYak has nightmare flashbacks to those images of CPUs with giant globs of thermal paste slapped onto them[06:42:15] <umccullough> yeah, ...bad[06:42:27] <umccullough> "grain of rice" AS5 is all you need ;)[06:42:34] <DeadYak> exactly :/ doing that makes it an insulator rather than a conductor :/[06:42:38] <Karina```> DeadYak: fan behavior[06:42:47] <umccullough> well, the fan behavior was shit too[06:42:53] <Karina```> it was still spinning at 1500rpm at 97C[06:43:13] <Karina```> max on the mini is ~4000rpm[06:43:22] <umccullough> 1500...[06:43:29] <umccullough> i don't think any of my fans spin that slow :D[06:44:27] <umccullough> my p4 prescott fan hit 6000rpm once[06:44:32] <umccullough> just before it shutdown ;)[06:44:35] <Karina```> I noticed it second day I had it, was compiling something, felt the underneath of the desk was getting rather warm[06:44:57] <kad77> large casefan, slower rpm moves more air. you can run lower cpu rpms then[06:45:12] <umccullough> kad77, yes, most of my cases have 120mm's[06:45:31] <umccullough> this machine has two 120's[06:45:38] <kad77> the side vents are nice for cooling, but seem to make the cpu fan sound more pronounced[06:46:08] <umccullough> "thermally advantaged" cases are required by intel if you don't want to void warranty :P[06:46:42] <kad77> I'm going for a silent PC sometime, without water[06:46:56] <umccullough> via?[06:47:03] <kad77> maybe passive cooled[06:47:31] <kad77> or just get some of that nonconductive clear liquid and chill the liquid, submerse the motherbaord. :D[06:47:55] <umccullough> the old mineral-oil-filled case?[06:48:19] <kad77> yeah, and they came up with something else too. but its probably hard to find and expensive.[06:48:36] <DeadYak> cryo-case![06:48:37] <umccullough> too messy[06:48:49] <umccullough> i change my gear too often for something like that[06:48:50] <DeadYak> if it weren't for condensation, I wonder how well a PC in a fridge would work[06:48:54] <kad77> a pain to move your setup too. I like to move my workspace around the place every so often[06:49:27] <kad77> deadyak: i would guess it would heat up the fridge faster than teh fridge would cool it. :D[06:49:34] <DeadYak> possible :)[06:49:43] <DeadYak> though it'd be amusing to have a fridge with an ATX mount and stuff[06:49:51] <umccullough> freezer maybe[06:49:58] * DeadYak imagines someone coming in and seeing USB ports on the back of your fridge[06:50:03] *** AlienSoldieraway is now known as AlienSoldier[06:50:08] <umccullough> i'd be more worried about the heating/cooling effect of turning it on and shutting it down[06:50:13] <kad77> well, it's about 20F in the winter here, maybe I'll just stick it outside the window, tarped[06:50:34] <AlienSoldier> umccullough any idea on my sound card problem (i assume you did read my trouble earlier)[06:50:43] <umccullough> kad77, i plan to move some of my machines to the garage soon for that reason[06:51:01] <umccullough> AlienSoldier, i didn't read much - just saw the mistake of ESS = Ensoniq[06:51:06] <AlienSoldier> ok[06:51:09] <kad77> why not? just consider a dehumidifier (depending on how leaky the garage is)[06:51:22] <umccullough> my garage is actually insulated[06:51:32] <umccullough> and seals pretty well[06:51:39] <kad77> well then you could control humidity pretty well[06:51:52] <AlienSoldier> umccullough in anycase, any recomandation for a pci beos FULLY compatable sound card?[06:51:54] <kad77> plus, it largely solves noise issues :)[06:52:04] <umccullough> AlexForster, SB Live[06:52:10] <umccullough> er AlienSoldier[06:52:35] <umccullough> AlienSoldier, unless there's something missing from an SB Live that makes it not compatible...but mine seems to work[06:52:46] <kad77> i wish companies paid for bug reports. I found a whopper in a cisco router platform today[06:52:55] <DeadYak> umccullough: as does mine, it's an older 10k1 based one though[06:52:55] <AlienSoldier> ok, that seem to be the consensus, i wonder what is wrong with my es1370 ones[06:53:10] <umccullough> es1370 is the same chip emulated in QEMU[06:53:23] <umccullough> DeadYak, mine is old early gen also[06:53:26] <umccullough> SB Live! Value[06:53:36] <DeadYak> mine's an SB Live! XGamer[06:53:43] <DeadYak> which afaik is more or less a Value[06:53:44] <umccullough> i think mine predates yours then ;)[06:53:52] <umccullough> this one is from 1997 i think[06:53:55] <DeadYak> yeah, it's newer than the Value[06:53:56] <umccullough> maybe 98[06:54:01] <DeadYak> mine's either '99 or '00[06:54:03] *** frodobeg25 has quit IRC[06:54:05] <DeadYak> I'm not sure which of the two any more[06:54:08] <AlienSoldier> umccullough my es1370 work perfect, exept after a time from 3 hour to 16 hour depending on some factor, sound get crackling[06:54:34] <kad77> i wonder if I have something in the parts bin[06:54:35] <DeadYak> AlienSoldier: that sounds like a timing issue in the driver[06:54:39] * kad77 goes to check[06:55:58] <AlienSoldier> DeadYak definitly look like it, i installed systemtime patch on a pc to test this night[06:56:29] <Karina```> guess it's wishful hinking to hope sb Audigy 2 is supported by the emu10k driver[06:56:53] <kad77> anyone tried an ES1373?[06:57:00] <AlienSoldier> not me[06:57:24] <kad77> only ES series chip I have, afaik[06:57:25] <AlienSoldier> i was very happy with my SB16, but now i lost my ISA slot :([06:57:32] <kad77> GUS[06:59:15] <AlienSoldier> umccullough out of curiosity, what is the driver name that use sblive? stock with R5?[06:59:23] <kad77> http://manuals.opensound.com/sources/apci97.c.html[06:59:38] <kad77> ES1371/ES1373 sound be supported by OSS[07:00:27] *** Wumpscut has joined #haiku[07:00:49] <Wumpscut> Hey guys[07:02:20] <AlienSoldier> hi Wumpscut[07:02:45] <cps1966> hey he found it[07:06:27] <AlienSoldier> zzzzzzz[07:06:30] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[07:08:34] <Wumpscut> lol...yeah I finally found the party[07:09:27] *** umccullough_ has joined #haiku[07:09:33] *** umccullough_ is now known as umccullough_ubu[07:09:44] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[07:12:56] *** etteyafed has joined #haiku[07:14:21] * etteyafed lets a mongoose loose in the channel.[07:14:40] <Sikosis> Wumpscut: hope u got it started right :P[07:15:39] <Wumpscut> with a bowl :)[07:16:54] <Wumpscut> so how goes the coding?[07:17:06] *** BePower has joined #haiku[07:17:15] <Sikosis> me ... im at work ;)[07:17:38] *** BePower has quit IRC[07:19:42] <Wumpscut> I was coding at work today... I'm not a programmer for a living :)[07:20:09] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[07:20:12] <cps1966> i thought you were retired[07:21:01] <Wumpscut> who me?[07:21:07] <cps1966> yeah[07:22:19] <Wumpscut> the musician or me?[07:23:11] <cps1966> i thought you were teacher[07:23:21] <Wumpscut> nah[07:24:03] <Wumpscut> I was a student at Berkeley for a few years and now I've been working at United Way[07:24:26] <cps1966> didn't you give me some coletrain at one time[07:26:24] <Wumpscut> nope...must've been a different Wumpscut[07:26:41] <Wumpscut> thats into BeOS/Haiku[07:26:58] <cps1966> beshare[07:28:06] <Wumpscut> yeah...I'm the only person on BeShare that I know of that used this name. I haven't logged on for quite awhile though.[07:28:22] *** frodobeg25 has joined #haiku[07:28:28] <Wumpscut> and that likes Wumpscut[07:28:39] <cps1966> its been a few years ago[07:28:49] <Wumpscut> maybe I'll have to change my nick to Amduscia[07:29:14] <Wumpscut> I think I may have been thinking of going for a teaching credential[07:30:01] <cps1966> na this guy was a retired school teacher[07:31:01] <Wumpscut> sweet... a retired school teacher that listens to Wumpscut[07:31:31] <cps1966> no he likes jazz[07:32:05] <Wumpscut> well nice to meet you[07:33:17] <etteyafed> maybe it was Scuttlebut ;)[07:33:46] <etteyafed> sounds like Wumpscut if you were stoned[07:34:08] <cps1966> na this guys beed around since like 2000 when beshare started[07:36:39] <cps1966> two weeks ago i lost all my logs so i dont really know now[07:40:01] *** [1][Katisu] has joined #haiku[07:42:12] <cps1966> prolly only like 3 of us original users left there[07:42:29] <cps1966> maybe 4[07:46:15] <Wumpscut> I've been on BeShare off and on since 2000 under :Wumpscut:[07:46:59] <Wumpscut> I started when R5 came out... so I guess OG is the v3 people on BeBoxes[07:47:19] <Wumpscut> or maybe even dev releases[07:47:31] <cps1966> beshare started in 2000 july[07:48:00] <Wumpscut> well R5 came out around 2000[07:48:18] <cps1966> 99 i think 5.03 2000[07:49:14] <kad77> PR2 and PR3 were available on Mac PPC[07:50:16] <Wumpscut> I have a 7100 outside but I heard BeOS doesnt run well on NuBus macs[07:50:52] <Wumpscut> Well it does have a NuBus G3 upgrade, so it could be possible[07:50:55] <kad77> I only ran it on a PowerComputing clone, I don't think it had NuBus[07:51:22] <Wumpscut> I heard some people have success with G3 upgrade cards on NuBus[07:51:32] <Wumpscut> The bus speed is so slow though[07:52:15] <cps1966> well afaik it take 150mhz and 32 mb of ram[07:52:34] <kad77> It was smoking fast on a 604/166 compared to anything else at the time. I suppose thats why I follow haiku a decade later. Hoping some people still want to snuff the cruft so to speak[07:52:41] <cps1966> R4 less[07:53:27] <Kernel86> not overly fast on my UMAX C600 because of the VESA drivers for video :([07:54:11] <kad77> wht is a UMAX C600?[07:54:21] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[07:54:21] *** [1][Katisu] is now known as [Katisu][07:54:36] <Kernel86> PM4400 based, 604/200Mhz for my model[07:54:45] <cps1966> well i was fast on my dual p3 or still is[07:54:57] <kad77> k86: i forgot about that clone maker[07:56:05] <kad77> I never bough another Apple computer after they killed the clones, and then didn't buy Be. They have bounced back now, but it took over 5 years[07:57:29] <kad77> Coyotos first public bootstrap: http://www.metadesign.com.au/coyotos/[07:59:02] *** umccullough_ubu has quit IRC[08:14:58] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[08:17:59] <JonathanThompson> If you do an honest assessment of what BeOS was at that time when Apple turned them down for that price and ended up buying NeXT, fact of the matter is they made the far wiser, better deal there.[08:18:28] <JonathanThompson> JLG wanted far more than a sane person would put a value of BeOS at (especially) at that time on.[08:26:34] *** Sikosis has quit IRC[08:27:02] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[08:31:47] *** SprMa has quit IRC[08:32:30] <kad77> JT: I agree with that. At the time I was younger, and saw NeXT as legacy tech. It was, but had a more robust backgorund. And frankly, I don't think they would be worth what they are now without Jobs. JLG wanted far too much, and killed the deal himself, imo[08:33:05] <JonathanThompson> Yes.[08:34:05] <JonathanThompson> Sure, perhaps the current OS Apple would have been using might have been faster, but would it have been as robust as OS X?[08:34:17] <JonathanThompson> And, would it have as much functionality?[08:34:22] <JonathanThompson> (Fully working, stable)[08:34:52] <kad77> The frameworks are nice, but the killer app might be something 'like' Qt[08:35:29] <kad77> Apple did pour 5 years into getting OSX up to snuff, but yes, OpenStep/NeXT was clearly a better starting point[08:36:03] <JonathanThompson> I suspect a large part of that "getting up to snuff" was integrating enough Mac'isms to not have it seem too foreign.[08:36:15] <JonathanThompson> Which they would have needed to do with BeOS as well, if they had started with that.[08:36:18] <kad77> by killer app, I meant a nice cross-platform library. I haven't seen one that hasn't hurt my eyes (see wxWidgets)[08:37:04] <JonathanThompson> I've never seen a cross-platform GUI API that didn't effectively become the lowest common denominator of all of the native GUI's, with none of the advantages.[08:37:11] <kad77> I wish Apple had competed for the .NET crown, maybe partnered with Sun[08:37:56] *** Wumpscut has quit IRC[08:37:57] <kad77> I bring up the cross platform GUI API, as I think it is key to getting Windows apps onto other platforms[08:38:20] <kad77> I don't like the WINE approach, it actually may inhibit companies[08:39:06] <JonathanThompson> The funny thing is I think Windows is as successful as it is as much as anything because the GUI and how you use most applications (and there's a large number of them this way) are as consistent as they are, precisely because they are consistent with the Windows GUI, for better/worse.[08:39:41] <JonathanThompson> And because of that, once you've learned how one works, you can generalize well enough most of the time to move onto other things. That'd be lost with too many mutations that aren't native to platforms.[08:40:33] <kad77> Yes. The windows app model would need to be cloned. MacOS with the fixed menu bar feels very odd these days[08:41:41] <JonathanThompson> And yet, studies have shown that for efficiency, it's the best GUI-wise in that respect.[08:42:04] <kad77> Oh well, it would be nice to see Qt support Haiku someday. I wonder how large the codebase is. Probably larger than Haiku at this point[08:43:08] <kad77> JT: depends on screen res for me. I'd rather have menu bars close to my mouse. But many apps are fullscreen, so it doesn't matter[08:44:12] <JonathanThompson> Have you ever read/heard of Fitt's Law?[08:46:19] <kad77> no..[08:46:38] <kad77> (new version of mona os! Just found it: http://monaos.org/ )[08:47:41] <JonathanThompson> The most efficient points for a mouse to reach by user is first, that directly under the mouse, and then, the sides of the screen, and then the corners of the screen. The distance to the sides doesn't matter, since you can't miss (readily) finding it, regardless of coordination or speed.[08:49:03] <kad77> hmmm, where'd you study that?[08:49:29] *** magnetron has joined #haiku[08:49:52] <JonathanThompson> There's a site asktog.com (I think it is) a GUI/usability expert[08:50:19] <JonathanThompson> I know you can look it up online :)[08:51:15] <kad77> just wondering, I've never felt proficient at GUI design .. resources are good. :)[08:52:50] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[09:02:01] <kad77> afk, moviefilm[09:03:25] *** SDr has quit IRC[09:03:33] *** SDr has joined #haiku[09:22:54] *** Euver has joined #haiku[09:28:32] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[09:28:34] *** Kernel86_ has joined #Haiku[09:36:13] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[09:39:42] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[09:45:16] *** Begasus has quit IRC[09:45:30] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[09:47:26] *** slaad has joined #haiku[10:05:11] *** Begasus has quit IRC[10:05:28] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[10:06:18] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku[10:14:24] *** Euver has quit IRC[10:16:53] *** begasus_ has joined #haiku[10:17:29] *** agony_ has joined #haiku[10:25:45] *** agony__ has quit IRC[10:28:04] *** begasus_ has quit IRC[10:32:30] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[10:47:32] <waveshaper> can Haiku use GCC 4.x?[11:00:33] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[11:04:33] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[11:06:45] *** stargater has joined #haiku[11:06:51] <stargater> re[11:08:00] <Ingenu> '[11:09:26] <stargater> i need include the BColumnListView in my app int haiku tree, but he cant found the header, and im not sure is this in libbe? anyone a idear ?[11:11:50] *** Darknesss has joined #haiku[11:13:12] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[11:13:26] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[11:16:05] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku[11:16:53] *** _konrad has joined #haiku[11:18:00] <_konrad> Hello[11:18:27] <stargater> hi _konrad[11:18:30] <plfiorini> hi[11:18:44] <_konrad> waz up!?[11:19:03] <stargater> 25 years SGI[11:19:04] <Begasus> hi _konrad![11:19:05] <_konrad> Checked my email today.. only got 291 new ones.. I guess I need to boot to BeOS moore often[11:19:08] <_konrad> Hi Begasus[11:19:12] <Begasus> lol[11:19:25] <Begasus> heading out here ...[11:19:27] <Begasus> cu all later[11:19:37] <_konrad> Yup[11:19:48] <Begasus> catching up next time _konrad;)[11:19:51] <Begasus> plop[11:19:54] <_konrad> Begasus sure..[11:19:55] *** Begasus has quit IRC[11:21:27] <stargater> Thom_Holwerda_: http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2007/october/25th_anniversary.html[11:22:57] <_konrad> Guess need to reboot to try Haiku out[11:23:11] <_konrad> See you later guys[11:23:12] *** _konrad has quit IRC[11:26:31] *** meisje has joined #haiku[11:34:42] <plfiorini> i dd'ed the haiku.image file to a 100MB partition and i've done makebootable[11:34:45] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[11:35:09] <plfiorini> but when i try to boot it, haiku goes in KDL and says something like PANIC: can't find a boot partition[11:36:22] <magnetron> plfiorini: i'm not sure, but i don't think that those 100MB images is a partition image - i think it's a disk image[11:37:24] *** MangoFusion has joined #haiku[11:38:55] <plfiorini> mmm[11:42:42] <stargater> you sure you have a raw image not vmware image?[11:43:04] *** UndeadYak has joined #haiku[11:43:06] <plfiorini> i have both[11:43:47] <stargater> sata hd ?[11:43:48] <plfiorini> i read in a howto that if I do a USerBuildConfig with HAIKU_IMAGE_NAME=sda5 and HAIKU_IMAGE_DIR=/dev it should install haiku into a partion (sda5 in this example)[11:43:51] <plfiorini> yes sat[11:43:52] <plfiorini> a[11:44:03] <plfiorini> so i tried this way instead of a manual dd[11:44:18] <plfiorini> but it says Error: Mounting FS failed: No such file or directory[11:44:25] <stargater> your linux kernel is ready für bfs ?[11:44:43] <plfiorini> yes, but anyway befs is readonly[11:44:52] <stargater> and makebootable ?[11:45:09] <plfiorini> partition sda5 is of type beos and i run makebootable[11:45:23] <plfiorini> as umccullough told me, it seems it worked fine (no error messages)[11:45:29] <stargater> the best way write in the ML[11:45:42] <plfiorini> jam run ":<build>makebootable" /dev/sda5[11:45:43] <plfiorini> ok[11:45:54] <plfiorini> wait[11:52:46] *** Darknessss has joined #haiku[11:57:08] *** steffen_f has joined #haiku[11:57:43] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[12:01:13] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[12:07:04] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[12:07:26] <stargater> plfiorini: and ?[12:07:54] <plfiorini> PANIC[12:08:06] <stargater> hmm thats not good[12:08:40] <plfiorini> maybe this happens because of sata[12:08:49] <plfiorini> i sent a mail to openbeos at freelists dot org[12:09:55] <plfiorini> i guess usb->serial adapters don't work[12:10:08] *** Darknesss has quit IRC[12:10:13] <plfiorini> so i can't get the serial debug output[12:10:20] *** Stamrogh has quit IRC[12:10:34] *** UndeadYak has quit IRC[12:10:47] <stargater> bll[12:12:02] <stargater> plfiorini: ahh 100MB is toooo small[12:12:27] <stargater> make more :-) and try again[12:13:17] <stargater> 120 or 150 mb is the image i think after dd is this more[12:13:28] *** replore has quit IRC[12:13:33] <stargater> i think 500 mb is good[12:14:20] <plfiorini> ah[12:14:24] <plfiorini> ok now i try[12:15:09] <stargater> plfiorini: my grup menu.lst is =[12:15:12] <stargater> title Haiku[12:15:12] <stargater> root (hd0,2)[12:15:12] <stargater> chainloader +1[12:15:33] <plfiorini> i tried also[12:15:34] <plfiorini> rootnoverify (hd0,4)[12:15:35] <plfiorini> chainloader +1[12:15:42] <stargater> hd0,2 = you need your partition[12:15:45] <plfiorini> anyway now i try your setup[12:16:02] <plfiorini> yep i still remember something about grub fortunately[12:16:32] <stargater> title Haiku root (hd0,4) chainloader +1[12:16:38] <plfiorini> thanks[12:17:03] <stargater> test it and when its run, then can me give a thanks :-)[12:18:02] <plfiorini> now dd'ing[12:18:49] <plfiorini> ok, crossing fingers and reboot[12:18:56] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[12:23:15] *** meisje has quit IRC[12:23:21] <stargater> looks good[12:23:46] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[12:23:55] <stargater> and?[12:26:45] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[12:26:53] <stargater> and? plfiorini[12:27:04] <plfiorini> stargater: PANIC :)[12:27:13] <stargater> hmm[12:27:25] <plfiorini> i think this problem is sata related[12:29:46] <stargater> plfiorini: do you read this ? http://joomla.iscomputeron.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1029&Itemid=2[12:33:19] <plfiorini> stargater: yes but my haiku is rev 22448[12:33:43] <plfiorini> stargater: anyway i don't see my post to the ML in the inbox[12:33:57] <stargater> i sse it[12:34:12] <plfiorini> ok maybe gmail hasn't got it yet[12:35:19] <stargater> how big is your partition?[12:35:30] <plfiorini> i have only 3 hours of free time, then i will have to go to my uncles and i'll be back for sunday - i will die without haiku[12:35:53] <plfiorini> stargater: now is 500MB[12:35:56] <stargater> ok[12:36:05] <plfiorini> stargater: before was 100MB[12:36:17] <stargater> ok[12:36:23] <plfiorini> stargater: but haiku.image is ~100MB[12:36:42] <plfiorini> stargater: do i need to do something on sda5 before dd if=image of=sda5?[12:37:13] <stargater> have you compiled ?[12:37:16] <plfiorini> yes[12:40:09] <stargater> plfiorini: download the HD Image http://haiku-os.org/build_factory[12:40:17] <stargater> and test this[12:40:57] <plfiorini> downloading ....[12:41:35] <stargater> so i go off line,good luck plfiorini[12:41:50] *** stargater has quit IRC[12:51:11] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[13:07:11] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[13:08:26] *** MangoFusion has quit IRC[13:11:03] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC[13:20:36] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[13:22:37] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[13:28:14] *** stargater has joined #haiku[13:28:17] <stargater> re[13:33:30] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[13:33:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton[13:33:40] <JBurton> hi all[13:36:40] <stargater> JBurton: we can #include BColumnListView in haiku ?[13:36:53] <stargater> my app is in the haiku tree[13:36:56] <JBurton> not in libbe for the moment[13:37:19] <stargater> oh, and now ?[13:38:19] <JBurton> it's not yet a stable interface[13:38:40] <stargater> JBurton: in beos was this experimentell too and in libbe?[13:39:13] <JBurton> it wasn't in libbe[13:39:45] <stargater> JBurton: other question is, we can in the Jamfile add source what is in a folder in my source folder[13:42:10] <JBurton> you mean copy a folder recursively?[13:42:26] <stargater> column/ColumnListView.h will not found i put the column header and cpp in the same place as my sources[13:42:46] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[13:44:00] <stargater> /mysource/column = this need add in a Jamfile and not column/xyz.cpp[13:44:34] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[13:44:36] <JBurton> if you have a header in the same folder as the cpp file, you have to include it using "" and not <>[13:45:21] <stargater> yes, but in the Jamfile wenn i make column/hhh.cpp will it not found the header of this[13:45:42] <stargater> in a makefile can this do not in jamfile, i listen[13:45:51] <JBurton> hmmm I don't know how to do that[13:46:00] <stargater> ok[13:46:11] *** zeeke has joined #haiku[13:48:36] <stargater> reboot[13:48:40] *** stargater has quit IRC[13:56:41] <JBurton> I'm off. Bye All[13:56:43] *** JBurton has quit IRC[14:01:52] *** jevin has joined #haiku[14:12:42] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[14:15:28] *** Darknessss has quit IRC[14:20:41] *** Player1 has joined #haiku[14:21:48] *** Atomozero has joined #haiku[14:23:52] *** Darknesss has joined #haiku[14:27:57] <plfiorini> good by[14:28:04] <plfiorini> see you on monday[14:28:07] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[14:29:10] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[14:55:22] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[14:55:28] <Stargater> re[15:02:32] *** MangoFusion has joined #haiku[15:12:04] *** Stargater has quit IRC[15:15:47] *** _DaaT_ has joined #haiku[15:18:07] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[15:28:20] *** DaaT has quit IRC[15:39:39] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[15:39:53] *** slaad has quit IRC[15:42:15] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[15:42:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[15:47:04] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[15:49:46] *** Sikosis has joined #haiku[15:49:55] *** mmadia has quit IRC[15:50:12] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Sikosis[15:51:30] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[16:02:56] *** _DaaT_ has quit IRC[16:21:24] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[16:34:16] *** Darknessss has joined #haiku[16:34:30] *** lavo- has joined #haiku[16:36:53] <Thom_Holwerda_> weird question[16:37:14] <Thom_Holwerda_> if you sit outside a cafe or restaurant, at a table still belonging to that restaurant[16:37:24] <Thom_Holwerda_> you are sitting on the restaurant's ...[16:37:51] <Thom_Holwerda_> we dutch call it terras (terrace) but that just doesnt sound right in english[16:41:35] <TuneTracker> That's right Thom. The terrace in English can refer to an extension that is at ground level, but often is instead used to describe an extended outdoor room that is above ground, as from an apartment that is on the third floor.[16:43:07] <TuneTracker> Thom_Holwerda_ I actually can't think of a specific word for a ground-level outdoor restaurant extension.[16:43:11] <Thom_Holwerda_> we use "terras" for other things to - like how they grow rice in Asia, they grow that rise on terraces[16:43:21] <TuneTracker> Yes, so do we.[16:43:24] <Thom_Holwerda_> ill stick to terrace then[16:43:28] <Thom_Holwerda_> they'll figure it out[16:43:34] <Thom_Holwerda_> thx[16:43:41] <TuneTracker> Normally we just call it "outdoor seating"[16:43:48] <TuneTracker> when referring to a restaurant[16:43:59] *** Ingenu_ has joined #Haiku[16:45:09] <Thom_Holwerda_> ok[16:46:20] *** rmhunter has joined #haiku[16:49:00] *** lavo- has quit IRC[16:49:14] <rmhunter> Howdy[16:50:54] *** Darknesss has quit IRC[16:51:05] * DeadYak yawns[16:59:32] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[17:02:14] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[17:02:16] *** meisje has joined #haiku[17:03:01] *** meisje has quit IRC[17:07:45] * etteyafed lets another mongoose loose is the channel.[17:10:35] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[17:12:40] *** lavo- has joined #haiku[17:14:31] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[17:14:49] * JonathanThompson introduces 100 King Cobras into the channel so the mongoose has some entertainment[17:16:35] *** lavo- has quit IRC[17:20:05] *** Stamrogh has joined #haiku[17:21:01] <etteyafed> Well I let one in last night also, so thats mongeese.[17:23:15] * JonathanThompson suspects there's not a technical specification for a group of mongooses[17:23:43] <JonathanThompson> I had a funny timing incident this morning as a result of using my TV as a video alarm clock.[17:24:23] <JonathanThompson> In a dream, I was in the middle of a drag race, and just then, the TV turned on, and the first words I heard were, "Are we there yet?"[17:29:04] *** nielx has joined #haiku[17:30:47] *** rdmr has quit IRC[17:31:08] *** kokito has joined #haiku[17:31:24] <kokito> good morning folks[17:31:32] <Lelldorin1> morning[17:31:42] <Lelldorin1> but here it is afternoon[17:31:45] <Lelldorin1> ^^[17:31:57] <JonathanThompson> Approaching 8:30 a.m. here :)[17:34:23] <etteyafed> JonathanThompson: Actually yes. They are mongeese.[17:34:39] <Lelldorin1> 17:35 p.m[17:35:07] <JonathanThompson> Well, let's be realistic here: how many people in conversation have a reason to mention a group of them? :)[17:35:14] <JonathanThompson> And how often?[17:35:21] <Lelldorin1> he he[17:35:38] *** ekdahl has joined #haiku[17:35:41] <etteyafed> I dunno, I only know because of a report I once did for HS biology.[17:36:21] * JonathanThompson wonders if etteyafed was influenced by watching Disney's "Rikki Tikki- Tavi" as a kid[17:37:04] <etteyafed> Can't recall any such Disney carachter.[17:37:47] <JonathanThompson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikki_Tikki_Tavi[17:39:11] <JonathanThompson> Hmmmm... doesn't appear Disney made it, or at least the article doesn't seem to clearly indicate it.[17:40:48] <JonathanThompson> I do remember watching it when it was shown when I was a little kid: if I saw it on the first run, that'd put me at 3.5 years old.[17:41:44] <Lelldorin1> at this age i does not watch tv[17:42:04] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[17:42:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[17:42:58] <JonathanThompson> I suppose I had odd TV tastes as a little kid, since one of my favorite TV shows on a Saturday was "In Search Of" hosted by Leonard Nimoy.[17:43:05] <etteyafed> Well they made the jungle book movie so they likely did the short also[17:52:52] <rmhunter> I remember watching Rikki Tikki Tavi every year in Elm. school..[17:53:48] <rmhunter> Entertainment was more important than actual learn'n[17:56:11] *** mats has joined #haiku[18:11:43] *** Ingenu_ has quit IRC[18:23:24] *** frodobeg25 has quit IRC[18:32:04] *** frodobeg25 has joined #haiku[18:33:55] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[18:33:58] *** BePower has joined #haiku[18:34:37] <etteyafed> I just realised that atm win98 is more usable than haiku.[18:35:50] <etteyafed> But not for long! (It was just an observation anyhow)[18:36:48] *** wildur has quit IRC[18:37:42] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku[18:38:15] *** genkie has joined #haiku[18:39:16] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[18:43:14] *** Darknessss is now known as Darknesss[18:44:57] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[18:46:43] *** rmhunter has left #haiku[18:51:12] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[18:52:24] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[18:53:34] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[18:54:05] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[18:54:54] <CIA-5> axeld * r22449 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/vm/vm_daemons.cpp:[18:54:54] <CIA-5> The page scanner must not turn pages inactive that are actually wired[18:54:54] <CIA-5> (currently, wired pages don't always have the PAGE_STATE_WIRED, but a[18:54:54] <CIA-5> wired_count).[18:56:50] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22450 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/util/DoublyLinkedList.h: MoveFrom() was broken. Fixes bug #1534.[19:00:48] <dr_evil> thats weird[19:01:57] <etteyafed> Whats that?[19:02:18] *** mats has quit IRC[19:03:41] <dr_evil> that "wired pages don't always have the PAGE_STATE_WIRED"[19:05:53] <etteyafed> Hmmm. I have am issue with SMP and I didn't see a ticket for it. Should I create one?[19:06:34] <etteyafed> I don't have any conclusive debug info and cannot setup a serial link with the system I am working on.[19:07:10] <etteyafed> All I can do is describe the problem and when it happens.[19:07:33] *** insomnia has left #Haiku[19:07:42] <dr_evil> well, better write a tiket than telling it here[19:10:39] <etteyafed> Yeah, I just wasn't sure about how much info was the prefered minimum for a ticket.[19:11:08] *** SDragon has joined #haiku[19:11:27] *** SDr has quit IRC[19:11:31] <etteyafed> BTW nice job on the AHCI. It works great on my HP Pavilion dv6000 (Intel 945GM)[19:12:03] <dr_evil> minimum, hmm, please add processor type and chipset to the ticket[19:14:27] <MrSunshine> is gcc working fully on haiku getting anywhere?[19:14:48] *** SDr has joined #haiku[19:22:50] *** ekdahl has left #haiku[19:24:42] *** BePower has quit IRC[19:30:26] <etteyafed> Does the tracker automatically assign tickets?[19:31:43] *** SDragon has quit IRC[19:34:12] <dr_evil> yes[19:34:56] *** cps1966 has quit IRC[19:35:18] <etteyafed> I thought it must. The bug was assigned as soon as I filed it.[19:40:33] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[19:41:05] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[19:41:21] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[19:43:47] *** lorglas has quit IRC[19:50:37] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[19:53:00] *** Euver has joined #haiku[19:57:25] *** stargater has joined #haiku[19:57:29] <stargater> hi[19:58:23] <etteyafed> Does anyone know if a USB to Serial adaper will let me access the serial debug output from a machine with no serial port?[19:58:27] *** nielx has quit IRC[19:58:35] <etteyafed> stargater: hi[20:00:44] <MangoFusion> i don't see how that would work[20:01:35] <etteyafed> well i don't really think it would either. i was just hopefull[20:02:02] <MangoFusion> unless there was some bios emulation or something[20:02:03] <etteyafed> debug output from this machine would be really helpful[20:02:05] <etteyafed> atm[20:03:31] <MangoFusion> maybe there is a hidden unexposed com port that you can solder some wires to?:P[20:03:56] <stargater> etteyafed: hi[20:04:48] <etteyafed> MangoFusion: That is NOT gonig to happen on my favorite laptop.[20:05:24] <MangoFusion> what laptop is it?[20:06:12] <etteyafed> Pavilion dv6000[20:08:07] <MangoFusion> ah[20:08:16] <etteyafed> holy crap i figured it out![20:08:17] <MangoFusion> doesn't have a dock connector does it?[20:08:23] <MangoFusion> neat[20:08:34] <etteyafed> nope and i dont think i can get one either[20:09:19] <etteyafed> it seems to be a problem with the video that is fixed if i put it into failsafe video mode[20:09:31] <etteyafed> i tried that before and it didn't work though.[20:12:45] <etteyafed> I guess i will have to update that ticket and admit that i made a mistake[20:13:07] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[20:15:50] *** Player1 has quit IRC[20:19:01] *** etteyafed is now known as etteyafed_away[20:21:38] *** MikeW has joined #haiku[20:23:05] *** alpha-li1n has joined #haiku[20:23:30] *** stargater has quit IRC[20:26:29] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[20:26:30] <Stargater> re[20:34:39] *** BePower has joined #haiku[20:34:55] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[20:39:34] *** mats has joined #haiku[20:40:58] *** alpha-lion has quit IRC[20:41:11] *** alpha-li1n is now known as alpha-lion[20:42:53] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22451 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp: (log message trimmed)[20:42:53] <CIA-5> * Reviewed checking of empty paths and fixed some occurrences. Thanks to[20:42:53] <CIA-5> mjw for the hint. Fixes bug #1516.[20:42:53] <CIA-5> * Changed _{kern,user}_create_symlink() to no longer check the supplied[20:42:53] <CIA-5> link string. BeOS seems to do that, but this is not standard[20:42:54] <CIA-5> conforming. The previous implementation even used the path processed[20:42:57] <CIA-5> by check_path(), which would potentially have appended a ".".[20:45:02] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[20:46:13] <Begasus> evening all[20:46:32] *** meisje has joined #haiku[20:56:18] *** MikeW has quit IRC[20:58:37] *** oco has joined #haiku[21:01:08] *** mats has quit IRC[21:01:22] <CIA-5> bonefish * r22452 /haiku/trunk/src/system/runtime_loader/runtime_loader.c:[21:01:22] <CIA-5> Don't overwrite the last read byte with the null-terminator. Fixes bug[21:01:22] <CIA-5> #1536.[21:06:33] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[21:07:01] *** procton__ has joined #haiku[21:07:08] *** procton_ has quit IRC[21:14:58] *** meisje has quit IRC[21:20:13] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[21:25:13] *** BePower has quit IRC[21:42:26] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[21:42:49] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[21:46:24] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[21:46:31] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[21:46:51] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[21:46:54] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[21:49:53] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[21:50:16] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[21:51:14] <MYOB> I want to kill some coders who have long since left the company and never put their names in the file headers, grr[21:52:53] <kokito> MYOB, you now know why they left their names out, don't you? :P[21:52:53] <MYOB> although not as much as I want to kill the Revenue Commisioners for changing the checksum on the PPS numbers[21:53:51] <MYOB> kokito possibly the shame of writing VB3 in 2003? :P[21:54:26] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[21:54:49] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[21:54:59] <kokito> MYOB, or because they did not want to get killed? :P[21:55:15] <MYOB> kokito possibly ;)[21:55:50] <MYOB> it appears we ran out of national insurance numbers that met a modulus 23 checksum and still fitted within our short format (7 numbers 1 letter) so stopped using the checksum[21:57:45] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[21:58:08] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[21:58:27] <MYOB> even worse, I've never seen the code of this product before, I'm just the only person in the company who knows VB3![21:59:28] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[21:59:50] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[22:06:43] <MYOB> said I wasn't hacking this past 9[22:07:23] <Kernel86_> burn it[22:09:45] <JonathanThompson> HA HA HA HA HA[22:09:59] * JonathanThompson imagines MYOB cursed with maintaining VB3 stuff[22:12:40] <MYOB> JonathanThompson my normal role is VBA[22:12:55] <MYOB> but at least its 32 bit, Access 2003 resident[22:12:59] <JonathanThompson> VB3 is 16 bit IIRC, right?[22:13:03] <MYOB> yes[22:13:24] <MYOB> this is a serious legacy system that still brings us in 150k+ a year in licencing fees for generally no effort[22:13:31] * JonathanThompson cheers for 16-bit only legacy code that likely can't readily be recompiled[22:13:46] <MYOB> JonathanThompson oh, it recompiles fine[22:14:13] <JonathanThompson> I didn't pay enough attention as to when the compatibility was broken between old VB and 32 bit versions.[22:14:14] <MYOB> and it even runs on Vista 32 bit fine[22:14:28] <MYOB> JonathanThompson I'm using VB3 to work on it....[22:14:55] <JonathanThompson> Did they keep a bunch of VB3 era books in storage for just such emergencies?[22:15:24] <MYOB> JonathanThompson no, they kept someone who's able to pick up hacking/QA skills in any language in a day (me)[22:15:37] <MYOB> this isn't the first time I've had to fix bitrot in this system[22:15:40] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[22:15:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[22:15:53] * JonathanThompson notes bits don't rot[22:15:57] <MYOB> we didn't even write this app, we bought it[22:16:17] <JonathanThompson> Sure, software may self-obsolete itself, and be buggy as hell, but it doesn't by itself rot.[22:16:26] <MYOB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_rot[22:16:29] <Kernel86_> JonathanThompson: on floppy disks they do! :-P[22:16:40] <JonathanThompson> Yes, on magnetic media, it can rot, true...[22:17:07] * JonathanThompson doesn't bother following the link, as he's been in the field more than long enough[22:17:16] <MYOB> some time ago we found that the app wouldn't take more than 269 users[22:17:31] <MYOB> we'd never expect anyone to have 269 user accounts on it; the highest CAL ever was 35[22:17:42] <MYOB> but over 12 years use, one customer had enough dormant accounts build up[22:17:55] <MYOB> on 21 CALs[22:18:14] <JonathanThompson> Did it at least fail in such a way that it explained why it failed, instead of going "CRUNCH" ?[22:18:24] <MYOB> no, it failed really unpredictably[22:18:33] <MYOB> the issue was diagnosed before I had to fix it too[22:18:46] <JonathanThompson> Ah, fun, probably when they most needed it to not fail, in a time crunch, too :P[22:18:55] <MYOB> it started eating the user IDs of older users, the problem was it took active users IDs too[22:19:02] <MYOB> plus we never want to use an existing ID ever[22:19:07] <MYOB> for record integrity[22:19:34] <JonathanThompson> So, flat out, it had some rather major bugs that revealed themselves with enough users added.[22:19:55] <JonathanThompson> Did it run out of RAM/resources, or was it just dumb bugs not related to resource issues?[22:20:19] <MYOB> DB/code hardlimits[22:20:35] <MYOB> I uncapped it to 10000 but the firm made me put it back to 310 to "create an upgrade path to the new program" :/[22:21:31] <MYOB> plus now when attempting to creat user 311 it doesn't give it ID 1 and erase the old ID 1, it alerts you to the limit[22:22:00] * JonathanThompson loves the random prime limit[22:22:52] <MYOB> it was sales derived[22:23:09] <MYOB> "lets give $CUSTOMER 40 more users, that'll cover the year or so it'll take to convince them to buy the new app"...[22:23:45] <MYOB> the "new app" will have lower annual licence fees for them but cost about E75,000 + new hardware...[22:24:14] <MYOB> oh, and the "new app" isn't out to pilot yet let alone sell..[22:24:34] <JonathanThompson> I see, so under the salesmanship gun for a deadline now.[22:24:43] <JonathanThompson> Classic corp workings.[22:25:22] <MYOB> the salesmen are Osborning us[22:25:42] <JonathanThompson> So when are you going to find a different place to work?[22:25:43] <MYOB> we have a current system, in a low end (Jet based) and high end (MS-SQL based) version but they try to sell the unlaunched system to people[22:25:49] <MYOB> and give them the current one "for the moment"[22:26:36] <MYOB> when I cna find somewhere else that'll give a 20 year old the 32k and 30 days holidays I'm on now[22:26:42] <MYOB> e.g. not for a while[22:27:42] <MYOB> thats high 40's in dollars for those over the pond[22:27:43] <JonathanThompson> Well, bank away the income you don't need for basics, as it sounds like you may need it.[22:28:23] <JonathanThompson> I'd suggest putting it into a savings for college.[22:29:32] <pyCube> what kind of college degree requiring job would pay $40k? pssh.. not a whole lot[22:30:06] <Begasus> g'night peeps[22:30:23] * JonathanThompson tucks in Begasus with a nailgun to his blankets[22:30:35] <Begasus> plop[22:30:44] <MYOB> pyCube I don't have a degree[22:30:44] *** Begasus has quit IRC[22:30:53] <MYOB> and I don't intend to go to college, either[22:30:54] <pyCube> MYOB: me neither[22:30:56] <pyCube> heh[22:31:02] <MYOB> but evne if I did, its fre[22:31:04] <MYOB> free*[22:31:12] <MYOB> I do live in a pseudosocialist country remember[22:31:29] <pyCube> that was sorta my point.. if your making $40k+, unless you have some person reason, whats the point of college?[22:31:34] <JonathanThompson> Would that free also include all living expenses during that time?[22:31:36] <MYOB> JT the company is at no risk of going under[22:31:37] <pyCube> personal[22:31:55] <MYOB> JonathanThompson grant aid + dole is high enough to live off if required, yes[22:32:01] <MYOB> wouldn't keep me in cars, clubbing, etc[22:32:12] <JonathanThompson> Ah, it's not like that here.[22:32:29] <MYOB> JonathanThompson yes, as the US isn't even trying to pretend to be socialist ;)[22:32:37] <pyCube> JonathanThompson: and after college, the next 30 years of work is required to pay back teh loans that got you through school[22:32:44] <JonathanThompson> You'd have to have some other outside income or loans here to survive.[22:32:51] <MYOB> most people leave college here with no debts[22:33:12] <pyCube> i married into a new york art school loan debt[22:33:13] <pyCube> lucky me[22:33:15] <JonathanThompson> Depends on the size of loans you take out, and what sort of degree you work towards, etc. pyCube.[22:33:55] <MYOB> a lot have part time jobs to pay for a car, better accomodation, and socialising[22:34:00] <JonathanThompson> And of course, if the person with the school loans never finishes, yes, it's likely to take a lot longer.[22:34:12] <JonathanThompson> (Unless they were studying to do something that could never pay things back)[22:34:26] *** rgb has joined #haiku[22:34:27] <pyCube> JonathanThompson: i just never had any desire to get a degree.. even when i was in and into college.. i wanted to learn stuff.. not take courses i was told to take[22:34:28] <MYOB> my current other half works 10 hours a weekend IIRC...[22:34:44] <MYOB> (is in 3rd year of a CS degree)[22:35:49] <pyCube> if my dream would have been "surgeon", or "chemist", i'd likely have stuck to college[22:35:56] <pyCube> i just didnt want to be anything[22:36:09] <pyCube> i was too interested in stuff[22:36:29] * JonathanThompson labels pyCube a "Generalist"[22:37:03] <MYOB> ten hours selling PCs to gullible old women = pays for car, boozing[22:37:09] <MYOB> grants pay for accomodation[22:37:11] <JonathanThompson> Sadly, I'm not aware of any degree that's "generalist" that is marketable in any meaningful manner.[22:37:47] <pyCube> also, i couldnt handle being around all those college kids[22:38:12] <pyCube> even though they were peers[22:38:37] <MYOB> I hang around college kids all the time[22:39:12] * JonathanThompson notes MYOB is currently the age of the most common age of college kids, and shrugs[22:39:31] <pyCube> i just got to a point were it made more sense to work and use my money to travel than to spend it on books and tuition[22:40:28] *** Euver has quit IRC[22:40:33] <pyCube> socially imposed guilt is not a good reason to go to school[22:40:53] <JonathanThompson> I had no[22:40:53] <pyCube> and thats about the only reason i could see why i was there.. "cause i am supposed to"[22:41:08] <JonathanThompson> "Socially-imposed guilt" that caused me to go into school.[22:41:22] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[22:41:35] * JonathanThompson lobs "Socially-imposed guilt" at DeadYak[22:42:27] * DeadYak blinks[22:42:37] <kokito> geist, can you bring your laptop on Sunday?[22:43:14] <pyCube> JonathanThompson: there was a lot of crap in highschool that was all about making you feel like you'd be a complete waste of a person if you a) didnt graduate form highschool and b) didnt then go on to college[22:43:39] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps you had a different environment than I did, pyCube.[22:43:54] <pyCube> you never had those "career days"?[22:44:03] <pyCube> or a "career center" on campus?[22:44:12] <JonathanThompson> There was a career center, certainly....[22:44:15] <MYOB> I graduated from highschool two and half goes later[22:44:20] <pyCube> thats all i am talking about[22:44:22] <MYOB> totally worthless[22:44:32] <MYOB> I got this job before getting final confirmation I'd passed[22:44:41] <JonathanThompson> And perhaps the Career Days, but I was away at a vocational program for half the day of my 11-th12th grade years, when I'd likely be going to them otherwise.[22:44:55] <pyCube> i gave up on highschool half way through[22:46:37] <pyCube> i protested the shitty public school system by proceeding to burn a lot of bridges that i was supposed to cross[22:46:42] <pyCube> hehe[22:47:12] <DeadYak> the public school system in the US is fairly laughable in some respects, though that varies a lot depending on where you go[22:47:48] <pyCube> yeah.. well, we had multi-million dollar sport facilities, and text books form the 70's[22:48:13] <pyCube> and football coaches for physics teachers[22:48:26] <MYOB> most people here still go to religious schools out of parental choice, or closeness; I went to one of the "pioneering" state school[22:48:35] <JonathanThompson> From my best understanding, where I attended school was (at least then) one of the best public school systems in the US.[22:48:47] <MYOB> first one set up in the area after they changed the regulations in the 60s, was a scientific-based vocational school[22:48:50] <MYOB> still HATED it[22:49:09] <DeadYak> pyCube: yeah, the ridiculously disproportionate spending on sports is one of my pet peeves[22:50:24] *** jevin has quit IRC[22:50:29] <MYOB> right, party time[22:50:31] *** MYOB has quit IRC[22:50:32] <pyCube> i think i had built up too high of expectations for school[22:50:55] <pyCube> when i was young, i imagined highschool as a place filled with interested students, knowledgable teachers, and lively debate[22:50:58] <pyCube> HAHAHA![22:51:24] <pyCube> "no, thats college..."[22:51:32] <pyCube> which is, ofcourse, more bullshit[22:52:03] <DeadYak> depends[22:52:19] <DeadYak> some parts of college, especially the frat-infested ones, feel very much like an extended high school[22:52:33] <DeadYak> others do fit what you described there pretty well[22:52:40] <DeadYak> though that'll of course vary by school[22:53:08] <pyCube> sure.. just like there were a few very cool teachers in my highschool..[22:53:16] <pyCube> and i loved those courses[22:53:38] <DeadYak> the thing is though, in college it's to a much greater degree your choice as to which of said crowds you wind up in[22:53:50] <DeadYak> in high school there's so many BS courses you have to take that everyone else has to as well[22:54:10] <pyCube> i dunno.. i dont go around crowds of any sort.. but you still have to sit through class with people[22:54:49] <DeadYak> right, and unless you're going for a completely crap major, most of the more specific classes do wind up with people in them who actually care about what's being taught[22:54:50] <pyCube> one of the final straws in my case was trying to take a latin course[22:55:23] <pyCube> DeadYak: yeah.. i guess i didnt have patience enough to get past the first couple years[22:55:35] <pyCube> and no reason to stick it out[22:56:51] <DeadYak> depends on what you do with your life, I agree completely for a lot of things you really don't get any tangible benefit out of it[22:56:57] <pyCube> but yeah.. there should be a prerequisite for latin class.. "MUST know what 'conjugate a verb' means"[22:57:15] <DeadYak> that's more of a general failing of the US school system I find[22:57:23] <DeadYak> depressingly few people learn anything whatsoever about languages[22:57:25] <DeadYak> even their own[22:57:30] <pyCube> yeah[22:57:43] <DeadYak> most other places I've lived you're more or less required to be learning one by 5th grade or so[22:57:44] <pyCube> its a lot of "why should i bother to speak foreigner?" attitude[22:57:47] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[22:58:17] <pyCube> 'Mericuh kiks ass[22:58:44] <pyCube> an' here in mericuh, we talk mericuhn[22:59:13] <DeadYak> don't remind me, I live in Alabama[22:59:20] <pyCube> hehe[22:59:27] <pyCube> 'bama[23:00:16] <DeadYak> the other problem is over here you have this perception that the only path to a decently paying job is a college degree[23:00:28] <DeadYak> so of course you have all the parents pushing their kids to go to college[23:00:32] <pyCube> hehe.. seriously though.. imagine trying to teach a latin course to people that dont understand conjugation, case, etc[23:00:33] <DeadYak> etc.[23:00:49] <DeadYak> pyCube: yeah, that happened in my spanish class too[23:01:13] <pyCube> most of my friends that went to college and have degrees dont have jobs in the fields that their degree is in[23:01:14] <DeadYak> pyCube: the teacher was about ready to go ballistic because like, myself and one other person in the class (of 30) knew what the first person singular was[23:02:13] <pyCube> not out of choice so much as they finished school and found themselves in the same 'hmm.. i dont have a job' place as they were before college[23:02:45] <DeadYak> the job market can suck sometimes[23:03:26] <pyCube> and you get what you get.. and you realize maybe you shouldnt habve gotten a degree in what you love, say, history, becasue HAHA!! who the hell is gonna hire a historian other than if you go back to school and get teaching creds and get hired as a teacher[23:03:49] <pyCube> at which point, "may as well get my masters"[23:03:53] <pyCube> and it starts all over[23:03:54] <DeadYak> pyCube: it still amuses me that my university had a major in underwater basket weaving[23:04:22] <pyCube> heh.. for reals?[23:04:24] <DeadYak> yes[23:04:32] <DeadYak> on the other hand there's people like Weird Al[23:04:38] <DeadYak> who actually has a degree in architecture[23:04:47] <DeadYak> not because that's what he wanted to do but because it was the first major in the catalog[23:04:52] <DeadYak> and he had no idea what he wanted to do[23:04:55] <pyCube> heh[23:05:03] <JonathanThompson> And he's become a re-sound-in success as a singer/entertainer :)[23:05:13] <pyCube> no Aachen School of Aardvarkery?[23:05:19] <JonathanThompson> in+g[23:05:46] <pyCube> er.. Aachen Academy of Aardvarkery[23:06:00] <DeadYak> but yeah, there's a lot of degrees that unfortunately don't have much application outside of either research or teaching[23:06:06] <JonathanThompson> pyCube, because you can't do better than all A's :)[23:06:21] * pyCube had 'A' editions of like 5 different encylopedias as a kid[23:06:26] <JonathanThompson> (Or, if you go into proctology, you can't do better than All Ass )[23:06:44] <pyCube> the kind where youd get A for free and were suipposed to pay to get the rest[23:07:17] * JonathanThompson remembers pyCube previously stating he was a real smart A, and now he understands why, much better[23:07:42] <pyCube> i did a paper on Andorra in 5th grade[23:07:48] <pyCube> hehe[23:09:41] <pyCube> i am sure i missed out on some stuff by not going through with college, but I'm really glad i got to travel as much as i did in my early 20's[23:09:49] <pyCube> was a nice tradeoff[23:09:55] *** BePower has joined #haiku[23:11:18] *** umccullough_work has joined #haiku[23:14:03] <pyCube> like the programmers at work that have degrees.. they are way better at making presentations and writing ellaborate spec sheets and docs[23:14:10] <pyCube> than me[23:14:23] <umccullough_work> well, duh![23:14:37] <umccullough_work> they're educated![23:14:42] <pyCube> hehe[23:14:46] * JonathanThompson notes umccullough_work is wrong[23:14:54] <JonathanThompson> No, they're "edumacated" umccullough_work :)[23:14:58] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[23:15:07] <umccullough_work> i was *thinking* that JonathanThompson, but i wrote it wrong ;)[23:16:03] <pyCube> theyve been schooled[23:16:12] <pyCube> prepared for the morden work environment[23:16:16] <pyCube> ladder climbers[23:16:22] <JonathanThompson> "morden" ?[23:16:25] <pyCube> modern[23:16:26] <pyCube> heh[23:16:42] <DeadYak> I was wondering if you meant the character Morden from B5 for a moment there[23:16:46] <DeadYak> that would've been worrisome :)[23:16:51] * JonathanThompson states, "If it's Morden, it has to be good!"[23:17:10] <pyCube> "with a name like schmuckers..."[23:17:18] * JonathanThompson loved the final fate of Morden[23:17:26] <pyCube> b5?[23:17:31] <JonathanThompson> Bablyon 5.[23:17:32] <DeadYak> pyCube: Babylon 5[23:17:35] <pyCube> oh[23:17:46] <JonathanThompson> Save the whales! Collect the whole set![23:17:47] <pyCube> was that the show with the napoleon alien?[23:17:56] <DeadYak> napoleon alien?[23:17:59] <JonathanThompson> (Well, I have all the B5 DVDs, anyway)[23:18:04] <pyCube> the guy that looked like napoleon?[23:18:09] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: I've got seasons 1-4[23:18:18] <pyCube> his hair was like a napoleon hat[23:18:20] <DeadYak> pyCube: um.....possibly?[23:18:25] <DeadYak> that sounds like Mollari[23:18:26] <DeadYak> one sec[23:18:39] <DeadYak> http://www.visi.com/~wildfoto/tg_wallpaper/tg18.jpg - that guy?[23:18:47] <pyCube> heheeh[23:18:49] <pyCube> yeah[23:18:51] <JonathanThompson> DeadYak, I fulfilled a guilty waste of money by getting my DVD collection started.[23:18:59] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: I didn't care for season 5 :)[23:19:15] <JonathanThompson> I'm not really one to collect a lot of video/audio stuff otherwise, in most cases.[23:19:32] <DeadYak> pyCube: guess that answers your question :)[23:19:37] <JonathanThompson> DeadYak, it was definitely wise that they had a set story arc and didn't try to carry things too far.[23:19:52] <JonathanThompson> IIRC they were the first series to purposely do that.[23:19:59] <pyCube> my wife recently got me a dvd collection of michael palins post-python show, Ripping Yarns[23:20:14] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: right, that was my issue with season 5, it had practically nothing to do with the rest of it and seemed like a random excuse to make more eps[23:20:25] <Ingenu> night[23:20:33] <DeadYak> pyCube: I love monty python[23:20:34] *** genkie has quit IRC[23:20:34] <JonathanThompson> Afternoon, Ingenu :)[23:20:39] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:20:43] <JonathanThompson> "But I'm not dead yet!"[23:21:09] * DeadYak sends some watery tart after JonathanThompson[23:21:12] <pyCube> DeadYak: who doesnt? hehe[23:21:17] <pyCube> duymb people, of course[23:21:21] <pyCube> but other than that[23:21:27] * JonathanThompson wipes his eyes with DeadYak's watery tart[23:21:38] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: please tell me you recognized the quote :)[23:21:43] <JonathanThompson> That cleaned them right out :P[23:22:10] <JonathanThompson> Sadly, DeadYak, I've never been one to memorize everything in movies or songs.[23:22:16] <JonathanThompson> (Or perhaps not so sadly)[23:22:23] <pyCube> its one of THE scenes[23:22:24] <DeadYak> "Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you. "[23:22:27] <JonathanThompson> Instead, I rely on my vivid dreams for weirdness :P[23:22:28] <pyCube> Dennis the peasant[23:22:42] <DeadYak> from the part of Holy Grail where Arthur's explaining where the english king derives his divine right to rule :P[23:22:46] <pyCube> Dennis rules[23:22:50] <DeadYak> Dennis is awesome[23:23:51] <DeadYak> by and large I preferred Life of Brian though[23:23:54] <pyCube> the first 2 scenes from the holy grail are great[23:23:57] <pyCube> same[23:23:58] <DeadYak> especially the latin grammar thing[23:24:19] <DeadYak> one of my friends in college about died laughing because he took a whole ton of latin in high school and was shocked when that scene made complete sense[23:24:20] <pyCube> "youre all different..."[23:24:28] <DeadYak> Aw I'm not :/[23:24:28] <JonathanThompson> So DeadYak, have you figured out whom to strangle from the implementors of BeOS's menu-handling past? :)[23:24:34] <DeadYak> newp.[23:25:28] * JonathanThompson notes DeadYak is different, just like everyone else[23:25:31] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[23:25:41] <pyCube> DeadYak: it used to really bother my wife that i couldnt even think about various python scenes without laughing...until she actually sat down and watched them[23:25:51] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[23:25:51] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[23:25:59] <DeadYak> pyCube: :)[23:26:03] <JonathanThompson> Ah, you introduced her to the finer points in culture :P[23:26:10] * DeadYak plops mmu_man[23:26:16] <mmu_man> re[23:26:18] * JonathanThompson notes a lot of plopping going on[23:26:40] <pyCube> thinking about the scene where reg is explaining about "what have the romans ever done for us?".. makes me laugh[23:27:04] <DeadYak> ;)[23:27:09] *** kennyjb402 has joined #haiku[23:27:32] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[23:27:40] <pyCube> or the expression on palins face when he asks, "anyone for tennis?"[23:30:15] <DeadYak> :P[23:30:34] <DeadYak> What is wrrrrrrrrrong with the name....Biggis....Dickis?[23:31:22] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[23:31:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[23:31:33] <pyCube> Weeweese Woddowick![23:31:40] <DeadYak> :)[23:31:52] <DeadYak> Crucifixion? Yes. Down the hall, first door on the left, one cross each[23:31:56] <mmu_man> re[23:32:20] <pyCube> You lucky, lucky bastard![23:32:49] <DeadYak> wb mmu_man[23:33:25] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku[23:33:56] *** SDragon has joined #haiku[23:35:44] <mmu_man> FALCREGS.ZIP Atari Falcon 030 Hardware Registers![23:35:47] <mmu_man> ahhhh :)[23:35:54] <DeadYak> hahaha[23:36:01] <DeadYak> do I want to know what you're up to?[23:36:23] *** kennyjb402 has quit IRC[23:38:11] <mmu_man> mkdir src/system/kernel/platform/atari_m68k[23:38:14] <mmu_man> :)[23:38:33] * JonathanThompson notes DeadYak had to ask[23:38:53] <mmu_man> hmm I'l have to do that in linux, I'll need ARAnyM to test[23:38:57] <mmu_man> and gcc4[23:39:47] <mmu_man> will have to convert that partition to ext2 :-([23:40:52] <DeadYak> Falcon was what, 030?[23:41:03] <mmu_man> default yes[23:42:02] <DeadYak> :P[23:43:06] <DeadYak> mmu_man: so this'll be our answer to B_NINTENDO64_PLATFORM? :)[23:43:34] <mmu_man> lol[23:46:30] *** steffen_f has quit IRC[23:49:51] *** BePower has quit IRC[23:50:44] *** SDr has quit IRC[23:54:47] *** flyinghippo has joined #haiku