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[01:56:04] <CIA-6> bonefish * r13676 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/apps/miniterminal/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
[01:56:04] <CIA-6> * Changed MiniTerminal command line arguments. Location and size are now
[01:56:04] <CIA-6> specified via options -l and -s. An arbitrary program can be run in the
[01:56:04] <CIA-6> terminal instead of a shell.
[01:56:04] <CIA-6> * Console::fState was never initialized which could cause the terminal to
[01:56:05] <CIA-6> not print anything.
[01:56:07] <CIA-6> * stdin, -out, and -err were set in MiniView::Start() and in
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[02:15:13] <CIA-6> bonefish * r13677 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/kernel/consoled/consoled.cpp:
[02:15:13] <CIA-6> consoled now supports a program to be run instead of the shell being supplied
[02:15:13] <CIA-6> via command line parameters. Not tested yet.
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[02:52:28] <underthumb> Alright, so is anyone running Haiku in its present state?
[02:52:42] <underthumb> I stumbled upon the webpage, the project looks very interesting.
[02:53:05] <underthumb> I remember installing BeOS 4.5 back in the day. It was quite enjoyable.
[02:53:30] <slaad> I doubt it. It isn't really usable as an OS.
[02:53:36] <slaad> Most people here would be using various parts of it.
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[02:53:49] <slaad> OpenBFS, OpenTracker, MDR, etc.
[02:53:55] <underthumb> Makes sense.
[02:54:33] <NathanW> yeah
[02:54:47] <NathanW> The upside of this is that Haiku is approaching completion is parallel
[02:54:51] <NathanW> As we've seen the last week or so
[02:55:11] <underthumb> If this project started in 2001, it's taken quite a while to get here. But I understand that it's hard to attract attention and help if the system doesn't boot.
[02:55:22] <underthumb> Not to mention getting to that stage.
[02:55:31] <NathanW> exactly
[02:55:37] <NathanW> we had nothing sexy to show
[02:55:47] <NathanW> That said, huge parts of the OS are complete
[02:56:24] <underthumb> What's the relationship, if any, between Haiku and yellowTab?
[02:56:31] <underthumb> That is, as organizations.
[02:56:32] <NathanW> That's complicated
[02:56:58] <NathanW> Yellowtab employs some people who contribute to Haiku
[02:57:10] <NathanW> For instance, the IDE/SCSI subsystem in Haiku was written for Zeta
[02:57:18] <NathanW> As was the VIA integrated graphics driver
[02:57:19] <NathanW> etc.
[02:57:26] <underthumb> really? You would think that would be a no-go due to non-compete clauses in standard hiring contracts.
[02:57:32] <NathanW> yeah
[02:57:46] <NathanW> This started because YT used to be really sketchy
[02:57:55] <NathanW> GPL violations, massive vaporware
[02:57:57] <NathanW> etc.
[02:58:07] <slaad> GPL violations? Where?
[02:58:19] <NathanW> There was some business a couple years ago
[02:58:30] <slaad> Eh, I'd pay little attention to it.
[02:58:34] <slaad> People claimed the same thing about Be.
[02:58:35] <NathanW> It got sorted out, it wasn't a major thing, just not releasing changes
[02:58:41] <NathanW> Well, yes, and they were right
[02:58:41] <underthumb> hmmm.
[02:58:44] <NathanW> Anyway
[02:58:46] <slaad> No they weren't.
[02:58:53] <NathanW> the R3 boot loader
[02:58:59] <NathanW> Contained GRUB
[02:59:02] <slaad> Oh, that I don't know about.
[02:59:08] <slaad> I was talking about ones around R4.
[02:59:13] <NathanW> oh, ok
[02:59:15] <NathanW> whatever
[02:59:22] <NathanW> Anyway, the impression was that YT was sketchy
[02:59:31] <slaad> They were like "Oh noes! u use geee peee eeel! u r illegal! OMG! ROFLMAYONAISE!"
[02:59:41] <NathanW> So it improved a lot when they changed leadership, and things have been much warmer
[02:59:44] <slaad> Indeed. I think they've ditched thesketchyness.
[02:59:46] <NathanW> hahahahahaha
[02:59:52] <NathanW> Right, they have
[03:00:05] <NathanW> And so they've been contributing a lot back to Haiku lately
[03:00:21] <NathanW> In particular, they employ people like mmu_man who are prolific contributors
[03:00:34] <NathanW> And, of course, YT uses some Haiku components, especially drivers
[03:00:48] <slaad> I think it's a win-win situation.
[03:00:49] <underthumb> I saw some speculation on a Be-related news site. A comment implied that yellowTab sees Haiku as an inevitable (or quite likely) future, and that their ultimate plan is to become a colsed-source distributor for Haiku applications.
[03:01:11] <NathanW> It's quite possible
[03:01:40] <underthumb> So they can cross-pollenate between your team while using ZetaOS, and then switch when Haiku is stable.
[03:01:45] <slaad> yT provides a situation where Be coders can get paid. And attracts commercial entities as well which generally boosts community numbers. Haiku then gets increased interest. yT can take extra code and make Zeta better. Which gets them more interest, etc, etc.
[03:01:48] <NathanW> At the moment, it's not viable for core OS parts, for the reasons mentioned
[03:01:53] * underthumb nods
[03:01:57] <NathanW> exactly, slaad
[03:02:07] <slaad> I'm dubious that'd be the case though. Haiku is an R5 target. yT is already sitting on post-R5 stuff.
[03:02:23] <NathanW> slaad: that's true, but define "R5"
[03:02:32] <slaad> R5 = BeOS R5.
[03:02:35] <NathanW> In most ways, Haiku is just as post-R5 as Zeta
[03:02:42] <underthumb> Is Zeta being used to build Haiku? Or mostly just old BeOS versions?
[03:02:42] <slaad> I wouldn't say so.
[03:02:53] * underthumb is Mr. Questions
[03:02:59] <NathanW> Michael Phipps keeps saying that, but it's not true in any real way
[03:03:03] <slaad> I believe it can be, underthumb. But I don't pay much attention to all the leftwing opensource hippies in here... ;)
[03:03:14] <NathanW> underthumb: You can use either
[03:03:15] <NathanW> haha
[03:03:21] <NathanW> slaad: how do you mean?
[03:03:23] <agentmumu> what I'd like to see from yellowtab (like not demand) is, that they contribute their usb/usb2 stack to haiku
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[03:03:48] <underthumb> The Haiku project seems to balance between OS and commercial interests with the MIT license.
[03:03:54] <NathanW> Aside from the things YT added (localization) I don't see the OS as fundamentally more advanced than Haiku is
[03:03:58] <underthumb> It's my understading that it's similar to BSD.
[03:04:02] <NathanW> agentmumu: yeah, that would be nice
[03:04:02] <slaad> I don't think they'd do that, agentmumu. The USB stack would have cost them a lot of time and money.
[03:04:03] <underthumb> er, the liscense that is.
[03:04:10] <NathanW> underthumb: It is exactly the same, in fact
[03:04:20] <NathanW> slaad: They did it with IDE
[03:04:22] <underthumb> well, shows how much I know
[03:04:41] <slaad> From my understanding the dev went "Sure, I'll do it for you. But I want to put it into the Haiku depot"
[03:04:46] <agentmumu> slaad: if they see haiku as a possible future path, it's not so unresonable
[03:04:54] <NathanW> And now that they have other features to advertise Zeta (locale, CUPS, NDIS, etc.)
[03:04:57] <underthumb> NathanW, what role do you play in Haiku development, if any? Just curious.
[03:05:02] <slaad> Like I said, I don't think they do, agentmumu.
[03:05:06] <NathanW> They don't need to sell Zeta on USB, like they used to
[03:05:30] <NathanW> underthumb: I wrote a large part of the mail subsystem, a couple network drivers, and the ACPI support
[03:05:39] <NathanW> And I annoy people on the lists
[03:05:45] <underthumb> Sounds good. :)
[03:06:12] <slaad> And I am a well-wisher. In that I do not wish Haiku any specific harm ;)
[03:06:13] <underthumb> So as a contributor, what's your relationship to this whole thing? Do you still run Be and long for the same OS? Did you simply happen upon the project?
[03:06:17] <NathanW> slaad: It's a gradual thing, I think
[03:06:24] <NathanW> They want to avoid forks, I'm sure
[03:06:34] <NathanW> And that's probably the only way to do it
[03:06:44] <slaad> I think they'll only ever be taking peripheral stuff. Kits and drivers.
[03:06:51] <NathanW> underthumb: Yeah, I run Be, have since 1998
[03:07:01] * underthumb nods
[03:07:04] <NathanW> I don't really long for R5. I have R5.
[03:07:19] <underthumb> well, perhaps "long for continuing development and support"
[03:07:25] <NathanW> But, well, Linux kind of sucks as a desktop, and I don't like Windows or OS X that much
[03:07:33] <NathanW> So here I am
[03:07:42] <NathanW> underthumb: That's there, in most ways
[03:08:00] <underthumb> I agree on the Linux desktop. I'm most fond of OS X, but I see the value in the BeOS (and its current relatives.)
[03:08:06] <NathanW> I run R5 on  a dual P4 Xeon with a Geforce 5500, and have full hw support
[03:08:24] <NathanW> SCSI, sound, net, etc.
[03:08:46] <NathanW> I can do everything I can on my other OS (FreeBSD) except play a few games
[03:09:04] <NathanW> so the development is there, if largely courtesy of Haiku
[03:09:12] <underthumb> If you will indulge a few more questions of mine...how did the "recapitulate/recreate/etc" BeOS community get so splintered? There seems to be (or were) a handful of projects trying to do essentially the same thing.
[03:09:37] <NathanW> Well, when Be was bought by Palm
[03:09:46] <NathanW> People were wondering what to do
[03:10:08] <NathanW> The first thing that happened was that BeUnited tried to buy the BeOS source from Palm
[03:10:11] <NathanW> which failed
[03:10:23] <NathanW> Then we have "let's make a new one"
[03:10:54] <NathanW> And a couple people (Guillame Maillard, for instance) decided to take the seemingly expedient route and base it on Linux
[03:11:01] <ottoaim__> has there ever been a package manager for be/ is there one planned for haiku?
[03:11:27] <NathanW> I was originally not in favor of targeting R5, and so opposed Haiku (then OpenBeOS)
[03:11:36] <NathanW> then I realized they weren't really targeting R5 anyway
[03:11:42] <NathanW> and changed my mind
[03:11:51] <slaad> There was Software Valet, ottoaim__. Which sucked.
[03:11:53] <NathanW> ottoaim__: Not really -- it's never really been necessary
[03:12:01] <NathanW> that it did, slaad
[03:12:04] <slaad> David Reid was working on one. The source is in the BeClan depot.
[03:12:10] <slaad> I'd disagree with the lack of need, NathanW.
[03:12:25] <NathanW> Maybe for a few things
[03:12:29] <slaad> I think a central app where you can go "Update all my apps to [Stable | Beta]" etc.
[03:12:32] <ottoaim__> A while back I installed beos r5 and had an issue getting beaim working due to dependencies and wondered if one was ever done
[03:12:42] <slaad> It wasn't an issue for a few years because there was some pretty stagnent development.
[03:12:46] <NathanW> slaad: maybe
[03:13:03] <NathanW> ottoaim__: That was probably just a network stack issue, you probably downloaded the wrong one
[03:13:04] <slaad> But I think there's some pretty exciting dev work happening these days, and it'd be nifty to have a nice way for end-users to hook into that.
[03:13:23] <NathanW> I don't like the idea of having UNIX-style package management
[03:13:31] <NathanW> It encourages non-self-contained apps
[03:13:52] <slaad> Ew, god no.
[03:14:00] <slaad> I'm thinking a nice pretty GUI and stuff.
[03:14:04] <NathanW> ok, just so we're clear :)
[03:14:08] <NathanW> well, not even GUI
[03:14:11] <agentmumu> no gui :)
[03:14:15] <NathanW> anW>	an app updater I'm fine with
[03:14:16] <agentmumu> just an "app-folder"
[03:14:22] <slaad> Definately a GUI.
[03:14:27] <NathanW> I don't want an automatic dependency fetching mechanism
[03:14:44] <NathanW> Because people will rely on it
[03:14:48] <agentmumu> slaad: what do you need a gui for?
[03:14:52] <slaad> What's wrong with that, NathanW?
[03:15:02] <slaad> The 1980s called... they want their method of computing back.
[03:15:08] <NathanW> slaad: because you get bloated packages that install themselves everywhere
[03:15:10] <ottoaim__> lol
[03:15:13] <slaad> Because it's easier to use, agentmumu?
[03:15:28] <NathanW> Which is one of the really nice things about BeOS
[03:15:32] <NathanW> (and OS X)
[03:15:36] <slaad> That's not necessarily true, NathanW.
[03:15:42] <NathanW> Specifically, I don't want installers
[03:16:05] <agentmumu> slaad: instead of just having one file(folder) which encapsulates the complete app?
[03:16:08] <NathanW> A package manager that can upgrade installed apps is fine -- I don't want one that installs them for you
[03:16:17] <NathanW> for the reasons agentmumu is suggesting
[03:16:39] <slaad> Because that method starts to fall down for more complex apps, agentmumu.
[03:17:05] <NathanW> slaad: Like which? The number is very small
[03:17:11] <NathanW> The way OS X does it is good
[03:17:20] <NathanW> You can use an installer
[03:17:26] <slaad> I don't see the problem with an app that goes "Hi, what stuff do you need?" "Oh, I need OpenSSL. At least version 1.x" "Okay... well, the user already has that" or "Okay... does the user want me to get that? Yes? Okay, cool"
[03:17:39] <NathanW> But it doesn't fetch things for you, and you don't need that
[03:17:43] <slaad> Of course it is, NathanW. But the number of apps on BeOS is very small.
[03:17:48] <NathanW> slaad: OpenSSL should be bundled with the OS
[03:18:00] <NathanW> As should most common deps like that
[03:18:04] <slaad> You know how many apps I use written by people other than myself? 3. 3 measily apps.
[03:18:25] <NathanW> If we have a complete API, we don't need shared 3rd party libraries
[03:18:34] <NathanW> heh
[03:18:50] <NathanW> I use about 3 apps in general
[03:18:57] <NathanW> on any OS
[03:18:58] <slaad> I just think you guys are envisioning a shitty scenario and refusing to accept such a thing could be done well. :)
[03:19:08] <NathanW> web browser, e-mail client, text editor
[03:19:19] <NathanW> slaad: I'm very afraid of UNIX-style apps
[03:19:25] <slaad> Vision, Firefox, MDR, The IM Kit (and all it entails :), InfoPopper, Eddie, Snoopy, QueryWatcher... think that's it.
[03:19:33] <slaad> (So I guess it's 4 apps, not 3)
[03:19:40] <NathanW> Although I think I needn't worry about it so much, since we at least have a toolkit in the OS
[03:19:44] <NathanW> instead of 12 of them
[03:19:57] <slaad> I'm not talking Unix style apps. I'm talking about an easy way for Joe User to install an app.
[03:20:03] <NathanW> Yeah, I know
[03:20:07] <slaad> And doing it in the one place rather than each app having it's own way of being updated.
[03:20:23] <NathanW> And I think that self-contained bundles is easier to deal with from Joe User's POV
[03:20:42] <slaad> And uninstalling?
[03:20:48] <NathanW> Especially since the update mechanism becomes: delete old app, add new one
[03:20:56] <NathanW> uninstallation by deleting the exe/folder
[03:20:59] <agentmumu> just remove the app-folder
[03:21:07] <slaad> And what about any libs they installed?
[03:21:10] <slaad> Settings? Add-ons?
[03:21:12] <NathanW> Just be included
[03:21:13] <slaad> Preflets?
[03:21:22] <NathanW> You shouldn't be spraying the system with them
[03:21:34] <slaad> So B_USER_SETTINGS_DIR and friends... Be was stupid for having them? :)
[03:21:38] <NathanW> IM Kit does it because, like MDR, it should be an OS component
[03:21:40] <slaad> What if the OS goes multi user (Hahahah, I slay me :)
[03:21:52] <NathanW> settings should stay and be small
[03:21:57] <slaad> But stay where?
[03:22:00] <NathanW> and easily labeled
[03:22:04] <NathanW> in the settings directory
[03:22:16] <slaad> But that means you're "spraying the system with them".
[03:22:23] <NathanW> slaad: What if the OS goes multiuser?
[03:22:30] <slaad> Yes.
[03:22:36] <NathanW> settings are small and non-noticeable except by the app that uses them
[03:22:51] <NathanW> As opposed to large libraries cluttering things up
[03:23:04] <NathanW> And preflets, which are apps
[03:23:05] <NathanW> etc.
[03:23:30] <slaad> Not always... they can get pretty big.
[03:23:32] <NathanW> slaad: That was a question. I don't understand what difference it makes if the OS goes multiuser
[03:23:35] <NathanW> which it should
[03:23:43] <NathanW> slaad: why? and how?
[03:24:04] <NathanW> besides, you can delete them by deleting a prefs folder that's clearly marked
[03:24:29] <slaad> Oh, because if it goes multi-user you can no longer put them in the app dir. Unless the app author has to roll his own multi-user support.
[03:24:39] <NathanW> oh, the settings?
[03:24:43] <slaad> Yeah.
[03:24:45] <NathanW> They go in B_USER_SETTINGS_DIRECTORY
[03:24:51] <NathanW> ~/config/settings, like always
[03:24:57] <slaad> Yes... but then you're "spraying the system" with stuff :)
[03:25:07] <NathanW> no, because it's one place
[03:25:09] <slaad> And like I said, settings can get pretty decently sized.
[03:25:15] <slaad> But it's no longer in the app dir.
[03:25:17] <NathanW> that's consistent, and labeled with the app name
[03:25:26] <slaad> So it isn't contained. And it isn't deleted with one action.
[03:25:32] <NathanW> 2:25:32 <NathanW>	2 actions
[03:25:36] <NathanW> If you want to delete it
[03:25:42] <NathanW> s/it/them
[03:25:55] <NathanW> Which many people don't
[03:26:03] <NathanW> Especially for upgrades
[03:26:19] <slaad> But if they decide they hate the app, they might.
[03:26:30] <NathanW> well, then they can delete the settings
[03:26:43] <NathanW> Mac users have used this system for 20 years
[03:26:47] <slaad> Exactly.
[03:26:47] <NathanW> It works pretty well
[03:26:57] <NathanW> If the settings are well marked
[03:27:03] <NathanW> It's not a problem
[03:27:06] <slaad> I'm not saying it doesn't. But it can't really hurt to have an app that eases all this for the end-user.
[03:27:42] <NathanW> slaad: When MS started allowing drag and drop install of word
[03:27:46] <underthumb> it might be rather troublsome though
[03:27:51] <NathanW> They plastered it in all their ads
[03:27:58] <NathanW> As a huge useability improvement
[03:28:05] <NathanW> and everyone agreed
[03:28:07] <underthumb> if sending an app to the trash got rid of the preference files, then upgrading via replacement might hose your preferences
[03:28:20] <agentmumu> the problem with an installer is, what happens if the user doesn't always use it
[03:28:26] <NathanW> underthumb: exactly, which is why prefs should be elsewhere
[03:28:28] <agentmumu> the system will get inconsistent
[03:28:31] <NathanW> yes, agentmumu
[03:28:45] <NathanW> Which is why, like all things BeOS, everything should be done with Tracker
[03:28:46] <NathanW> :P
[03:28:48] <slaad> Hah.
[03:29:39] <slaad> Hrm... MDR just went apeshit and sent a bunch of old mail.
[03:29:56] <NathanW> sorry
[03:30:03] <NathanW> was it pre-MDR mail?
[03:30:03] <agentmumu> hehe
[03:30:13] <slaad> Heh, it's okay. I moved around my mail out dirs. Seems to have confused it.
[03:30:21] <NathanW> that's odd
[03:30:24] <NathanW> it shouldn't have
[03:30:25] <NathanW> ok
[03:30:27] <underthumb> BTW, what's the deal with Gobe Productive? I thought it was dead and now Windows only, but it seems Zeta has liscensed it?
[03:30:27] <NathanW> I need dinner
[03:30:31] <NathanW> It's 9:30
[03:30:38] <slaad> They've licensed an ass-old version, underthumb.
[03:30:42] <underthumb> ah, thanks for answering my questions, NathanW
[03:30:46] <NathanW> underthumb: what slaad said
[03:30:50] <NathanW> You're welcome
[03:31:04] * underthumb nods at slaad
[03:31:16] <agentmumu> it's 3:30 over here
[03:31:19] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC
[03:31:22] <agentmumu> am
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[03:33:50] <agentmumu> night
[03:34:16] <slaad> Pussy.
[03:34:23] <slaad> Going to bed at 3:30am. Where's your staying power?
[03:35:19] <agentmumu> hehe :) I have to get out of this, gettup-at-4pm-rythm, I currently have
[03:35:24] <agentmumu> so, bye
[03:35:30] <slaad> Psfft! You make me sick!
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[05:50:27] <SiCuTDeUx> helo
[05:50:46] <SiCuTDeUx> can anyone help configure a pcmcia card in beos?
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[05:58:40] <miqlas> re
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[06:12:41] <miqlas> rE!
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[06:38:33] <Yumi-chan> hi
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[09:04:11] <@JBurton> hi
[09:07:21] <Kernel86> is there a size limit to the BeFS partition in R5?
[09:07:55] <@JBurton> of course
[09:08:05] <@JBurton> there's always a limit
[09:08:12] <Kernel86> what be it? :P
[09:08:16] <@JBurton> I have no idea :)
[09:08:20] <@JBurton> but IIRC it's very high
[09:08:29] <Kernel86> 80gigs should be fine i assume
[09:08:40] <@JBurton> if the ide driver handles it, yes
[09:09:02] <Kernel86> i have a friend trying to set it up but he's getting an error when he tries to initilize it
[09:09:27] <@JBurton> hmm weird
[09:09:46] <Kernel86> thats what i thought, can't raelly think of anything
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[09:15:17] <@Korli> hey JBurton
[09:17:11] <@Korli> later
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[09:28:25] <@JBurton> ok
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[10:38:00] <anarchos> meow
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[11:19:09] <slaad> m_eiman!
[11:22:15] <m_eiman> slaad!
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[11:30:27] <@JBurton> wb Korli
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[11:31:30] <motoyama> beclan
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[11:41:27] * motoyama is away (10 min auto-away) @ Wed Jul 13 18:43:00 2005 - Pager is on.
[11:42:27] * motoyama is away (Auto-away after 10 minutes) @ Wed Jul 13 18:44:00 2005 - Pager is on.
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[11:48:38] <CIA-6> jackburton * r13678 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/PrintJob.cpp: Implemented BPrintJob::BeginJob() and CancelJob() (tested a bit)
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[12:02:41] <@JBurton> anyone tried stylededit on haiku yet ?
[12:03:02] <@Korli> JBurton no o_O
[12:03:23] <@Korli> maybe it's not on the image
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[12:05:07] <@JBurton> it's not, in fact
[12:05:11] <@JBurton> it should be, though
[12:05:24] <@JBurton> and I guess it could even work
[12:05:39] <@JBurton> so, Korli... try it! :)
[12:07:25] <@Korli> ok :)
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[12:08:15] <@Korli> JBurton I mailed ingo about these stacktraces without symbols
[12:09:48] <@JBurton> ok
[12:10:18] <@JBurton> btw... does the "debugger()" call show up a window as in beos ?
[12:10:27] <@JBurton> yet ?
[12:10:36] <@Korli> no
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[12:11:14] <@Korli> but the stacktraces appear in the serial log
[12:11:31] <@JBurton> ok I see
[12:11:35] <@Korli> and I have to objdump the libs to understand what it says, it's annoying
[12:11:43] <@JBurton> yeah definitely :=)
[12:11:52] <@Korli> whereas the kernel stacktrace actually works
[12:13:55] <@JBurton> ah yes, I remember I've seen that
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[12:22:13] <@Korli> JBurton StyledEdit actually works
[12:22:17] <@JBurton> oooh cool
[12:22:27] <@JBurton> tried also different font colors ?
[12:22:56] <@Korli> yeah
[12:23:02] <@JBurton> (too bad you can't save, as filepanel doesn't work)
[12:23:04] <@JBurton> oooh super cool
[12:23:09] <@JBurton> add it to the image :))
[12:23:30] <@Korli> there is a bug with menus though
[12:23:37] <@JBurton> great :)
[12:23:55] <@Korli> i>	i have to keep the button clicked so that it doesn't disappear
[12:24:01] <@JBurton> that's normal
[12:24:13] <@JBurton> as our menus only support that behaviour atm
[12:24:26] <@JBurton> every menu do that, btw
[12:24:32] <@JBurton> not only StyledEdit's one
[12:24:54] <@JBurton> if you check your beos, in the menu preflet, there is a "click to open" ietm
[12:24:56] <@JBurton> item
[12:25:06] <@JBurton> disable it, and you'll see the same behaviour
[12:26:12] <@JBurton> I tried to add the "Sticky" mode, but it's hard for me
[12:26:17] <CIA-6> korli * r13679 /haiku/trunk/makehdimage:
[12:26:17] <CIA-6> added StyledEdit (seems it works)
[12:26:17] <CIA-6> Canna data files copy command is added but commented out
[12:26:28] <@Korli> ah ok
[12:27:13] <@JBurton> let's see how many people will complain now (for bugs in TextView :P)
[12:27:45] <@Korli> poom app_server segfault
[12:27:57] <@JBurton> ouch
[12:28:13] <@JBurton> that's annoying :)
[12:28:42] <@Korli> yeah
[12:29:16] <Konrad77> JBurton BTextView is buggy =)
[12:29:27] <@JBurton> our is better Konrad77 :)
[12:29:36] <Konrad77> Hehe
[12:29:37] <@JBurton> ours, I mean
[12:29:43] <@Korli> JBurton when I change the input method (Alt+Space) the keyboard input addon crash in a call to BMessage::AddInt64 ...
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[12:30:02] <@JBurton> inside that function ?
[12:30:08] <@Korli> on a newly created message, yeah
[12:30:58] <@JBurton> shouldn't that be unit tested ?
[12:31:31] <@Korli> it works when I don't change the input method
[12:32:52] <@JBurton> oh
[12:33:30] <@Korli> btw darkwyrm sent me a crash stacktrace of the input_server
[12:33:37] <@Korli> can't do much with it
[12:33:43] <@JBurton> why ?
[12:33:48] <Methe> hellooo
[12:33:53] <@Korli> JBurton no symbols
[12:33:55] <@JBurton> hey Methe
[12:33:59] <@Korli> hey Methe
[12:34:00] <@JBurton> Korli ah usual problem, right
[12:34:25] <@Korli> Methe I committed your message speed tests, I noted they are slower on Haiku's implementation
[12:34:44] <@JBurton> Korli ouch
[12:34:52] <@JBurton> that's because of all the templated stuff, I bet
[12:35:11] <@JBurton> well not the templated stuff, the layers on layers stuff, maybe
[12:35:20] <@Korli> yeah
[12:35:42] <@Korli> but my libbe.so could have been built with DEBUG
[12:35:42] <@JBurton> btw, Korli... did you test haiku bmessages on r5 or on haiku ?
[12:35:51] <@Korli> on R5
[12:35:53] <@JBurton> ah okay
[12:37:31] <Methe> Korli: to bad they're slower :x
[12:37:42] <Methe> anyway they'll be rewritten with bitfields inR2
[12:37:44] <Methe> =)
[12:38:03] <@JBurton> bitfields are slow
[12:38:20] <@JBurton> if we're talking about the same thing
[12:38:38] <Methe> I guess it depends what we talk about =)
[12:38:46] <Methe> if it's to flatten it into a port it'll be faster
[12:38:47] <@JBurton> int a: 2; ?
[12:39:13] * Methe hmmm :p
[12:39:22] <@JBurton> what do you mean with bitfields, then ? :P
[12:40:01] <Methe> I thought it was something like: We put all data alltogether in a big fields of 0 and 1 and we have some additional data telling us where are diff data and what they are.
[12:40:15] <Methe> that's what I thought I understood :x
[12:40:29] <@JBurton> hmmmm
[12:40:43] <[Beta]> like a kindof blob?
[12:40:58] <Methe> JBurton but I thought Flatten() already worked this way
[12:41:03] <@JBurton> in fact
[12:41:08] <Methe> to get some "raw" data sendable to  a port/file
[12:41:31] <@JBurton> bmessage's big problems is with Flattening/Unflattening
[12:41:41] <@JBurton> dano's bmessage avoids the problem
[12:41:45] <Methe> yeah
[12:41:50] <@JBurton> by having it already flattened
[12:41:56] <Methe> by writing it already flatened
[12:41:59] <@JBurton> exactly
[12:41:59] <Methe> hehe :)
[12:42:02] <@JBurton> and there are more
[12:42:13] <Methe> so yeah, we'll balst the world in R2
[12:42:14] <@JBurton> as Dianne said in his mini explanation on osnews
[12:42:19] <@JBurton> actually we could do this in r1
[12:42:25] <Methe> spamming BNetMessage all over the place
[12:42:41] <@JBurton> I can't see why we should have a slow BMessage implementation
[12:42:46] <Methe> so why not doing it ?
[12:42:53] <@JBurton> ok, Methe is volunteering
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[12:43:06] <@JBurton> because it's not simple at all and it takes a lot of time  :)
[12:43:07] <ImNotMethe> yeah, he volunteers
[12:43:18] <ImNotMethe> where is he =)
[12:43:23] <@JBurton> ahah
[12:43:29] <@JBurton> also BString should be changed
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[12:43:39] <@JBurton> ton>	to be refcounted, copy on write or whatever
[12:43:43] <Methe> yeah, in R2 JBurton , in R2 (tm)
[12:43:44] <@JBurton> and could be done in r1 too
[12:43:50] <Methe> =))
[12:44:08] <Methe> now I really have to go to eat something
[12:44:09] <Methe> bbl
[12:44:13] <@JBurton> hmmmm good idea
[12:44:19] <@JBurton> I'm hungry too
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[12:44:54] <@JBurton> Korli did changing methods work on r5 with our input server ?
[12:46:48] <@Korli> JBurton yeah
[12:47:08] <@JBurton> hmmm I wonder what could be, then
[12:47:29] <@Korli> though there is a problem with showing the input window sometimes
[12:48:10] <@JBurton> the bottomline window ?
[12:48:58] <@Korli> yeah, though inline input works
[12:49:21] <@JBurton> ok
[12:49:36] <@JBurton> inline input will require some support by the app server, right ?
[12:49:47] <@Korli> no
[12:50:09] <@Korli> orli>	or there is a flag on the active view
[12:50:14] <@Korli> so maybe yes
[12:50:18] <@JBurton> :)
[12:50:24] <sys2> struct doh { void *(function)(void *); }; doh d; d.function = somefunction; shouldnt that be possible?
[12:50:37] <sys2> or how do i have to do it? :/
[12:50:38] <@JBurton> yeah, app server should tell IS that the active view has that flag
[12:51:31] <@JBurton> should be possible
[12:51:42] <@JBurton> does the compiler complain ?
[12:51:48] <@JBurton> (it's very ugly btw) :)
[12:52:05] <sys2> test.cpp:18: error: invalid use of member (did you forget the `&' ?)
[12:53:36] <@JBurton> class _ExtraMenuData_ {
[12:53:36] <@JBurton> public:
[12:53:36] <@JBurton> menu_tracking_hook trackingHook;
[12:53:36] <@JBurton> void *trackingState;
[12:53:36] <@JBurton> _ExtraMenuData_(menu_tracking_hook func, void *state)
[12:53:37] <@JBurton> {
[12:53:39] <@JBurton> trackingHook = func;
[12:53:41] <@JBurton> trackingState = state;
[12:53:43] <@JBurton> };
[12:53:45] <@JBurton> };
[12:54:12] <@JBurton> menu_tracking_hook is defined as
[12:54:12] <sys2> maybe have to typedef it
[12:54:15] <@JBurton> yeah
[12:54:16] <@JBurton> maybe
[12:54:33] <@JBurton> typedef bool (* menu_tracking_hook )(BMenu *, void *);
[12:54:37] <@JBurton> it works there
[12:54:42] <@JBurton> so try the typedef
[12:55:07] <sys2> still same freaky thing
[12:55:38] <@JBurton> is that everything on the same line ?
[12:55:53] <@JBurton> and someFunction is ?
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[12:56:03] <[Beta]> does the position of the * matter, either side of the ( ?
[12:56:19] <@JBurton> of course it does
[12:56:44] <sys2> humm
[12:56:44] <@JBurton> did you put a * inside the ( ) ?
[12:57:05] <@JBurton> i.e. to have a pointer to a function which doesn't returns anything
[12:57:16] <@JBurton> a function pointer, I mean
[12:57:30] <@JBurton> typedef void (* teh_function)(void *)
[12:57:37] <@JBurton> and this takes a void pointer as parameter
[12:57:48] <@JBurton> if you want it to return a void pointer
[12:57:51] <@JBurton> typedef void *(* teh_function)(void *)
[12:58:12] <@JBurton> etc. etc.
[12:58:25] <sys2> aye :>
[12:58:29] <@JBurton> worked ?
[12:58:29] <sys2> works now, thanks :>
[12:58:46] <JBurton> thank [Beta], he made me notice the * in the wrong position :)
[12:59:38] <@JBurton> that syntax is ugly anyway
[12:59:57] <@JBurton> and pointers to class members functions are even worse... ick
[13:07:34] <@Korli> JBurton just tested Fonts, menufields are not updated when going from tab Cache to Fonts
[13:10:01] <@JBurton> uhmm focus problem ? missing MakeFocus() event ?
[13:11:24] <CIA-6> korli * r13680 /haiku/trunk/makehdimage: added Fonts
[13:11:37] <@Korli> the font name and size aren't displayed
[13:12:00] <@JBurton> ah so we're missing the font change notification
[13:12:06] <@JBurton> somewhat
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[13:12:14] <@Korli> hmm no
[13:12:18] <@JBurton> :(
[13:14:44] <@Korli> if the tab is hidden and then shown again, the menus for font name and font size are empty
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[13:16:09] <@JBurton> ah okay I see
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[13:16:52] <@Korli> JBurton "Debugger call: `Targeted handler does not belong to the looper.'" in libbe.so from Fonts
[13:17:25] <@JBurton> stippi told me he got some of these too
[13:17:31] <@JBurton> BHandler isn't bug free
[13:17:38] <@JBurton> I fixed some some time ago
[13:17:43] <@JBurton> but there's probably more :)
[13:17:52] <@Korli> ah
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[13:18:13] <@Korli> seems the road is long for some bugs
[13:18:18] <@JBurton> yeah
[13:18:41] <@JBurton> if you can reproduce that bug consistently, it's already a step ahead, though
[13:19:09] <Methe> re
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[13:21:46] <@Korli> and Fonts can't be tested on R5 ...
[13:22:07] <@JBurton> due to special apis
[13:22:37] <@Korli> yeah
[13:24:41] <@JBurton> I'm off
[13:24:43] <@JBurton> see ya
[13:24:44] <@JBurton> bye all
[13:24:46] <@Korli> bye
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[13:28:11] <sys2> pthread_create(&m_workers[i].thread, NULL, workFunction, (void *)m_workers[i]);
[13:28:16] <sys2> you are all skilled help me here :P
[13:28:25] <sys2> m_workers is "WorkThread *m_workers = new WorkThread[maxJobs];"
[13:28:33] <sys2> once in the function, it seems the data is invalid
[13:28:49] <sys2> (void *)&m_workers[i]);
[13:30:01] <sys2> *** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0804c030 ***
[13:30:01] <sys2> Aborted
[13:30:05] <sys2> ouch
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[13:31:04] <Methe> m_workers[i] is a data :x
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[13:32:05] <sys2> ?
[13:34:11] <sys2> Methe, can you explain that? ... as you make no sence to me atm and im kinda in a hurry
[13:34:45] <Methe> m_workers[i] is a not an adress
[13:34:50] <Methe> &m_workers[i] is
[13:34:54] <Methe> so you should cast it
[13:35:07] <Methe> (void *)&m_workers[i]
[13:35:11] <sys2> yes
[13:35:17] <sys2> hence the [13:28:35] <sys2> (void *)&m_workers[i]);
[13:35:21] <sys2> as i noticed i pasted the wrong part
[13:35:30] <sys2> and STILL doesnt give any good data in the function
[13:35:32] <Methe> =)
[13:35:47] <sys2> it gets corrupted some way .. or becomes nothing :P
[13:37:04] <sys2> goes from worker[i].running = true; to false from the way from that function call to the function
[13:37:43] <sys2> its 1 outside, 0 inside :/
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[13:43:35] <sys2> ...
[13:44:01] <sys2> wtf am i doing wrong?!!
[13:44:08] <sys2> HOW THE HELL CAN THE ****ING DATA GET CORRUPTED OVER THAt?!
[13:45:09] <[Beta]> gnomes. magic gnomes.
[13:46:39] <sys2> WorkThread *worker = (WorkThread *)_param; <-- i use that to convert it back to a worktherad type ...
[13:46:46] <sys2> and thats how ive done it always before
[13:46:55] <sys2> and have another funciton doing the same ***ing thing and it works.
[13:47:53] <sys2> and the pointer comming in is not a null one
[13:51:08] <sys2> i think im gonna break something soon
[13:51:12] <sys2> would feel so god damn good
[13:52:02] <@Korli> sys2 did you launch bdb ?
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[13:53:02] <@Korli> pthread_create(&m_workers[i].thread, NULL, workFunction, (void *)&m_workers[i]); is this your line ?
[13:53:49] <sys2> wtf
[13:53:58] <sys2> added an integer and that ones goes into the function unharmed
[13:54:18] <sys2> but m_workers[i].running = true; inside the function becomes 0
[13:54:46] <sys2> if im not just writing it in the wrong type :P
[13:55:20] <sys2> nop .. its false inside the function but true outside
[13:56:18] <sys2> haha
[13:56:26] <sys2> seems the function is exited before the thread even starts :P
[13:57:10] <sys2> but still cant find where the bloddy thing locks so that it wont exit normaly :/
[13:57:36] <sys2> and no, im not in beos :/
[13:59:14] <sys2> all threads quit ... but after last call in main the app remains running :>
[13:59:19] <@Korli> sys2 :p
[13:59:51] <sys2> im in a cond/rwlock/thread/mutex hell atm :P
[14:00:00] <sys2> damn pthread design to have mutexes for conds :/
[14:00:02] <sys2> me no like
[14:00:15] <sys2> i want to be able to use one kind of flow control not have to use 10
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[14:15:40] <CIA-6> bonefish * r13681 /haiku/trunk/ (headers/private/app/AppMisc.h src/kits/app/AppMisc.cpp): Introduced generalized versions of get_app_path() and get_app_ref() returning the path/ref for an arbitrary team.
[14:16:16] <CIA-6> bonefish * r13682 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/registrar/Registrar.cpp: Minor error output change.
[14:18:45] <CIA-6> bonefish * r13683 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
[14:18:45] <CIA-6> * Introduced a new debugger message B_DEBUGGER_MESSAGE_HANDED_OVER, which
[14:18:45] <CIA-6> is sent to a debugger when the debugged team has been successfully handed
[14:18:45] <CIA-6> over to another debugger.
[14:18:45] <CIA-6> * Fixed handling of B_DEBUG_MESSAGE_PREPARE_HANDOVER. We don't send a reply.
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[14:30:06] <CIA-6> bonefish * r13684 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/debug/ (DebugServer.cpp Jamfile): (log message trimmed)
[14:30:06] <CIA-6> * Reworked the design: It certainly doesn't make sense to display more than
[14:30:06] <CIA-6> one alert, when two threads of a team crash. Now we have a per team queue
[14:30:06] <CIA-6> of debug messages and a thread per team that processes them (that is
[14:30:06] <CIA-6> usually only the first one). The application class does nothing anymore.
[14:30:07] <CIA-6> * Implemented debugger handover:
[14:30:09] <CIA-6> -6>	 - In case of normal apps, when the relevant servers needed for GUI are
[14:32:10] <CIA-6> bonefish * r13685 /haiku/trunk/data/system/boot/Bootscript:
[14:32:10] <CIA-6> We now launch the registrar and the debug server before the app server. So
[14:32:10] <CIA-6> we get at least a stack trace when the app server crashes under qemu when
[14:32:10] <CIA-6> starting up.
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[14:45:35] <CIA-6> axeld * r13686 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/ (12 files):
[14:45:35] <CIA-6> First baby step to a restructured app_server:
[14:45:35] <CIA-6> -6>	- introduced new ScreenManager and VirtualScreen classes
[14:45:35] <CIA-6> -6>	- removed screen handling from RootLayer
[14:45:35] <CIA-6> -6>	- removed multiple screen/root layer stuff from Desktop, it's
[14:45:36] <CIA-6> now using a VirtualScreen object instead
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[16:51:23] <tic> Moo?
[16:51:49] <crash|_> hi
[16:51:52] <tic> 'elo
[16:51:57] <@Dr_Evil> hi tic
[16:52:02] <tic> Hi Dr_Evil
[16:52:16] <tic> I feel a bit.. disoriented.  Just broke up from a four-year relationship, dunno what to do now.
[16:52:42] <tic> (well, I do have 59 new e-mails to take care of...)
[16:55:06] <Dr3w> tic: if I was you I would subscribe to a porn site for starters, call your mates and go out and get drunk in a strip club, sleep with an easy girl.  Wake up in the morning send her home in a taxi, feel bad 'cos of your relationship and your hangover.  SOunds like a plan to me.
[16:55:24] <Dr3w> Then, wash and repeat.
[16:59:13] <@Dr_Evil> Dr_Evil>	Dr_Evil no need to subscribe, don't you know http://www.opendirviewer.com/ ?
[16:59:25] <@Dr_Evil> Dr3w i meant, not myself
[17:00:00] <Dr3w> Heh, I didn't, but now I do :)
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[17:01:44] <sys2> http://phpfi.com/70026 <-- what i ended up with .. anyone see any problems right away? :P
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[17:13:21] <tic> Dr3w, I did sleep with a girl tonight, although I did not sexx0r her or anything.  Plus, I don't really drink.  The first few days it's just best to not do anything with girls at all.
[17:13:41] <Dr3w> well don't do anything with men either.
[17:13:46] <tic> bah. :)
[17:13:58] <tic> But hey, I'm the fastest typer that I know (IRL), so I should just be happy and not bitch about things.
[17:16:38] <tic> Wow, lightning hit just 1 km from here
[17:17:12] <MikeW> one of my mothers friends grandson got hit by lighting in australia
[17:17:42] <tic> ouchie.
[17:17:46] <MikeW> he graduated as a doctor, was working on a hospital, him and his friends went out surfing one day, he got struck, and he has been paralysed ever since
[17:17:50] <MikeW> that was 6 months ago
[17:17:51] <tic> :(
[17:17:55] <tic> Good thing I'm not Australian then.. A;)
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[17:28:07] <thorn__> bb
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[17:35:08] <tic> What good is a reparse point?
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[19:32:03] <SiCuTDeUx> hi!
[19:33:42] <McCall> no
[19:34:59] <McCall> why would you be paralysed if you got struck by lightening?
[19:36:35] <@mahlzeit> ?!
[19:37:40] <@mahlzeit> heh i just found a googlewhack
[19:38:53] <WindowsUninstall> Haiku have a GUI?
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[19:39:06] <McCall> ah, your at risk of bleeding in the brain, which can cause it.
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[19:40:05] <@mahlzeit> oh apparently it's only a googlewhack if it's two words, hmm
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[19:43:47] <__nitro__> hi
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[19:53:47] <@mahlzeit> nesting classes in c++ sucks
[19:54:10] <tic> can you even do that?
[19:54:17] <tic> class Foo { class Bar {}}?
[19:54:19] <@mahlzeit> yes
[19:54:25] <w-ber> Of course...
[19:54:29] <tic> Hm.  Never done that, so ... :)
[19:54:31] <@mahlzeit> but Bar can't access anything protected or private in Foo
[19:54:34] <tic> right.
[19:54:41] <tic> so it's essentially useless to do so.
[19:54:53] <@mahlzeit> apparently :-(
[19:55:12] <tic> Hm, wonder if there are scripts to convert a Perforce repository to Subversion..
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[21:15:09] * [Beta] cackles - the only person in #haiku on the new freenode test server :/
[21:15:42] <tic> Ugh, can't I exclude files from a commit by editing the commit message?
[21:16:18] <jjkola> with subversion?
[21:16:51] <tic> YEs.
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[21:17:32] <jjkola> do you want it to be locally excluded or for every user?
[21:17:40] <tic> locally excluded from my commit
[21:17:52] <tic> i.e., I work on a bunch of parts, but I want to commit them in separate chunks.
[21:18:31] <Fanskapet> ehh. now.. that's odd. i can login in linux/GAIM with the exact same password i type in Miranda in windows..
[21:18:32] <Fanskapet> hmm
[21:19:47] <CIA-6> rudolfc * r13687 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/accelerants/via/engine/ (crtc.c general.c): completed virtualscreen support. Via constraints correctly set, checked and ok.
[21:19:50] <jjkola> have you tortoisesvn installed?
[21:20:20] <tic> jjkola, no, I don't use that. :)
[21:20:40] <jjkola> ok, then you need to change your conf file
[21:20:50] <jjkola> or at least I think so
[21:20:54] <tic> conf file?
[21:20:57] <tic> err
[21:21:01] <tic> look:
[21:21:18] <tic> $EDITOR doc/readme.txt; $EDITOR doc/install.txt; $EDITOR src/foo.cpp,bar.cpp
[21:21:25] <CIA-6> rudolfc * r13688 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/graphics/via/macros.h: added (corrected) define for memory pitch programming (CRTC).
[21:21:27] <tic> svn commit # but I only want to commit the stuff changed in doc/...
[21:23:02] <jjkola> can you wait one moment?
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[21:23:07] <jjkola> I have to check something
[21:25:21] <tic> Sure.
[21:25:26] <Dr_Evil_> svn commit folder/doc foo/bar/zesz.cpp etc
[21:25:33] <tic> but it seems that the commit message is only for the user.
[21:25:37] <tic> Yeah, saw that Dr_Evil_. Thanks.
[21:25:38] <Dr_Evil_> just list files and folders
[21:25:48] <tic> a bit sucky; I'd prefer to be able to do it like in Perforce.
[21:29:04] <jjkola> looks like I have to use subversion little more as I didn't remember that you could specify which files to commit
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[21:46:13] <CIA-6> rudolfc * r13689 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/accelerants/via/engine/ (general.c info.c): added support for 5 more Unichrome (pro) card - types.. ;-)
[21:46:44] <CIA-6> rudolfc * r13690 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/graphics/via/DriverInterface.h: added defines for other unichrome cards and archs.
[21:47:57] <w-ber> Unichrome?!
[21:48:12] <w-ber> That device doesn't even have decent Linux drivers yet.
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[21:53:49] <[Beta]> w-ber: expect nothing less from rudolf :p
[21:54:08] * w-ber wants to be Rudolf when ge grows up
[21:54:16] <w-ber> *he
[21:55:34] <Fanskapet> ahh they've changed the icq protocol
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[21:55:45] <Fanskapet> reduced the number of characters in the password to eight..
[21:56:38] <[Beta]> what kindof idea is that ?
[22:00:59] <Fanskapet> hmm i wonder if i should give BeOS yet another try on my lappie once more now that im going to reinstall all OS's anyway :)
[22:01:27] <Fanskapet> anyone know if it's possible to get a Radeon Mobility 9700 to work correctly and make use of the inbuilt panel with the current ati-driver?
[22:01:43] <Fanskapet> or is it just pointless to give it a try once more :)
[22:04:08] <agentmumu> is chris simmons here?
[22:04:48] <tic> No Technix here as far as I can tell.
[22:05:27] <Fanskapet> hmm so noone has these problems? it's just me? :D besides the massive talkback on bebits :)
[22:07:37] <CIA-6> rudolfc * r13691 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/graphics/via/driver.c: added recognition for those 5 extra variations of unichrome cards. Bumped version to 0.03 btw.
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[22:10:32] <Methe> hi darkwyrm !
[22:10:39] <darkwyrm> hi there'
[22:10:45] <tic> hey hey!
[22:10:49] <tic> how's it going?
[22:11:09] <darkwyrm> Not bad, but wondering if the mailing lists are down
[22:11:50] <darkwyrm> anyone know anything
[22:11:52] <@Dr_Evil> darkwyrm it's summer and it's weekend
[22:11:57] <Fanskapet> :)
[22:12:44] <Fanskapet> nån wärsch0r-guru här?
[22:13:52] <darkwyrm> Anyway, I'm having a fun time (if that's what you want to call it) trying to find out why Haiku doesn't boot on either of my machines and getting _quite_ acquainted with gdb
[22:14:35] <Fanskapet> agh.. wrong window :)
[22:16:16] <evdubs> gdb is amazing
[22:17:39] <stippi> hey darkwyrm!
[22:18:02] <@Dr_Evil> hi stippi!
[22:18:09] <stippi> Dr_Evil!
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[22:22:17] <scanty> does axel come round here often?
[22:23:48] <[Beta]> at least every monday.
[22:23:52] <[Beta]> and more
[22:24:05] <scanty> ah
[22:24:45] <scanty> then I shall continue my waiting game :^)
[22:25:23] <evdubs> email won't work?
[22:25:35] <scanty> I suppose.
[22:25:58] <scanty> got it handy?
[22:26:10] <@Dr_Evil> wo gehts hin?
[22:26:39] <evdubs> axeld at users.berlios.de was what google says
[22:26:49] <scanty> thanks :)
[22:26:59] <scanty> evdubs, are you going to do that slab allocator?
[22:27:25] <evdubs> i want to
[22:27:34] <evdubs> i've been reading about some implementations
[22:27:42] <evdubs> i need to familiarize myself with the newos kernel though
[22:27:53] <scanty> ah
[22:28:03] <scanty> I was looking at the linux one the other day
[22:28:27] <evdubs> but i have an allocator written that ran really well for some class
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[22:29:38] <evdubs> yea i read about that one and the one solaris uses
[22:30:15] <scanty> ah
[22:30:18] <scanty> I'm on solaris right now ;)
[22:30:29] <scanty> I guess you can brows the OpenSolaris tree
[22:30:46] <evdubs> haha yea... that's amazing that they open sourced it
[22:30:59] <scanty> indeed
[22:31:01] <scanty> hats off to them
[22:31:12] <scanty> I didn't like solaris that much on x86
[22:31:15] <scanty> but it's rocks on SPARC
[22:31:19] <scanty> compared to linux, at least
[22:32:25] <evdubs> yea... i wish there were more sparc machines around my school
[22:32:29] <evdubs> i'd definitely like to play with some
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[22:35:35] <scanty> I'd really like to port haiku over to SPARC :)
[22:35:42] <scanty> I doubt I can do it alone
[22:35:59] <evdubs> haha.. buy me a sparcstation and i'll help :P
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[22:36:54] <Fanskapet> ahh sparc.. agh.. my beloved foot-support :) sparcstation 5 :D
[22:37:22] <Fanskapet> it was nice to rest my legs on :)
[22:37:32] <Fanskapet> my 21" monitor still works though :)
[22:37:45] <scanty> nice
[22:37:49] <scanty> I have an Ultra60 here
[22:37:52] <scanty> dual 450s :)
[22:37:59] <Fanskapet> ahh okey.. so you're that serius :)
[22:38:04] <Fanskapet> i just had it for fun really :)
[22:38:12] <scanty> well, it's my main workstation right now
[22:38:16] <scanty> my Be machine is out of commission
[22:38:21] <scanty> bad motherboard
[22:38:22] <Fanskapet> still im thinking of getting me a "new" sparcstation 5
[22:38:33] <Fanskapet> ah well.. im inlove with my ferrari-racer :)
[22:38:50] <scanty> you have a ferrari?
[22:38:52] <Fanskapet> and pissed that BeOS won't run on it though :) but.. well well seems like that's life :P
[22:38:55] <Fanskapet> yes
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[22:39:12] <scanty> heh
[22:39:17] <scanty> which ferarri do you have?
[22:39:25] <scanty> oops, ferrari
[22:39:54] <Fanskapet> 3200
[22:40:23] <Fanskapet> http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/ neat keyboard
[22:40:30] <scanty> oh, the computer.
[22:40:32] <PulkoMandy> :)
[22:40:34] <scanty> I thought you meant the car :)
[22:41:20] <Fanskapet> haha :D
[22:41:23] <Fanskapet> no :)
[22:41:33] <Fanskapet> im not that lucky :D
[22:42:04] <Fanskapet> but one thing is common between those.. i guess BeOS won't work on the ferrari car aswell :D
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[22:43:09] <scanty> doubtful :^)
[22:43:58] <Fanskapet> although maybe Haiku will work on some display in car's panel :DD
[22:44:02] <Fanskapet> who knows :D
[22:44:20] <scanty> yeah, I'd rather have haiku on the display instead of fancy GPS stuff!
[22:44:52] <Fanskapet> :)
[22:45:12] <petterhj> Fanskapet, btw, I have not removed your membership at Bug Nordic ?
[22:45:12] <Fanskapet> scanty http://www.bedrivers.com/hardware/info.php?product=1886&category=20&sub=47
[22:45:16] <Fanskapet> that's my machine.
[22:45:26] <Fanskapet> petterhj ah well i restored my password :)
[22:45:43] <evdubs> scanty, you might also want to try axeld at pinc-software dot de
[22:45:53] <evdubs> i just ran into that one
[22:46:05] <Fanskapet> petterhj seems like I have a tendens to forget my passwords :) my memory fail me.. getting old :D
[22:46:10] <scanty> looks like a nice machine, Fanskapet
[22:46:11] <Fanskapet> old and gray :D
[22:46:19] <scanty> evdubs, thanks! :)
[22:46:25] <Fanskapet> scanty yes.. besides the BeOS support :D
[22:46:33] <scanty> I have some x86 optimised memcpy()s I want to donate to haiku
[22:46:39] <scanty> I thought axel would be the right guy to take them to
[22:46:46] <petterhj> Fanskapet, there is an option to retrieve your password if you have forgotten it!
[22:47:02] <Fanskapet> petterhj ahh yeah :) i did use that one to restore the password :D
[22:47:03] <scanty> Fanskapet, I wonder if it is a problem with the radeon driver itself
[22:47:21] <scanty> everything else works on the machine if you use an external monitor, though?
[22:47:28] <Fanskapet> scanty well it is since i think it was Zeta RC2 or RC1 that worked with the internal
[22:47:33] <Fanskapet> scanty yep
[22:47:37] <scanty> oh I see.
[22:47:42] <scanty> you could always e-mail yT
[22:47:44] <scanty> and complain to them
[22:47:48] <scanty> but I doubt they'll care
[22:47:55] <scanty> or failing that, you can try taking the driver from RC1
[22:47:57] <Fanskapet> but the strange thing is that an ordinary R5 or even R4.5 installation or just the installed requires a external monitor aswell :D
[22:48:44] <Fanskapet> scanty well allready tried that :) and that one didn't give me many colors either :) so my problem is kinda difficult to fix :) atleast it seems to be :)
[22:49:20] <Fanskapet> hehe complain :) well i've think i've posted a post to their bugtracker but i dunno if they've done anything with this problem
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[22:49:40] <Fanskapet> ah well seems like i'l just have ti install ubuntu and be happy with my life :D
[22:50:12] <scanty> hehe
[22:50:25] <scanty> I gave up on yT ages ago.
[22:50:26] <Fanskapet> hard to be in linux though .)
[22:50:37] <scanty> yeah, I know what you mean... I miss BeOS too
[22:50:46] <scanty> I had gentoo on here for a whlie.
[22:51:22] <Fanskapet> ah well yT was really my last hope of getting BeOS to work on this machine.
[22:51:39] <Fanskapet> will take some years 'til Haiku will run on this machine i guess :)
[22:51:40] <scanty> well, you may have to just wait for haiku :)
[22:51:51] <Fanskapet> :)
[22:52:01] <tic> yT has really been shaping up lately...
[22:52:20] <scanty> well, I dont' believe anything I read from yT
[22:52:39] <tic> you should, especially the latest (~two months ago) things.
[22:52:44] <Fanskapet> hmm well they really doesn't tell the community much
[22:52:51] <tic> not that different from Be.
[22:52:57] <tic> yT have their NDAs from Palm, probably.
[22:53:06] <Fanskapet> seen alot of posts on their forum asking for questions regarding hardware-support.. not a single answer from the crew from what i've seen
[22:53:06] <scanty> eh
[22:53:11] <scanty> I'm still a grand pessimist and skeptic.
[22:53:23] <scanty> I had a problem on RC1 with my SBLive
[22:53:25] <scanty> so I emailed them
[22:53:30] <Fanskapet> ah well.. Be made some public statements about supported hardware from what i remember when i was running R4.5
[22:53:30] <scanty> and they told me that there was no problem'
[22:53:47] <scanty> that doesn't sit well in my book.
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[22:54:06] <tic> scanty, that was RC1. long time ago.
[22:54:12] <johnny_b> hi
[22:54:20] <scanty> it does not matter.
[22:54:24] <evdubs> whats up
[22:54:30] <scanty> that's not an excuse to mistreat a customer, IMO
[22:54:36] <Fanskapet> hmm maybe that could happen if you have some conflicts with other cards?
[22:55:04] <Fanskapet> still.. I think they should atleast "try to" answer some of the questions in their own forum
[22:55:42] <Fanskapet> especially hardware-wise since that's really the most important question.
[22:55:48] <scanty> I agree
[22:56:00] <scanty> brb getting some mango juice
[22:56:16] <Fanskapet> both if they want to earn money from the OS and aswell get some good respons from the users
[22:56:59] <Fanskapet> i myself wouldn't spend that much money on a OS if it's unsupported or.. well if i don't know that it is supported
[22:57:11] <Fanskapet> it's alot of money.
[22:57:50] <Fanskapet> but i agree that Be didn't give much information.. but atleast more than yT does :)
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[22:58:11] <scanty> yeah
[22:58:21] <Fanskapet> and they did release info about ongoing projects.. although always the release-date.. "when it's finished" :D
[22:58:48] <Fanskapet> but it's the info i want :) maybe if they are working with the problem, if they won't fix it.. or if they have fixed it
[22:59:10] <scanty> from a business aspect, I feel they have no idea what they are doing.
[22:59:14] <scanty> but then, that's just my own opinion
[23:00:54] <Fanskapet> hmm well i have no real opinion in that matter.. i just think it's bad to have this silence as a company that want's more customers.. and yT sure falls or lives depending on how many customers they've got :) it's not really that they can "choose" between different customers :=)
[23:01:12] <Fanskapet> bad customer-care is my opinion :)
[23:01:29] <scanty> agreed, WRT customer-care
[23:02:12] <Fanskapet> hehe btw anyone seen the people app for windows longhorn? :)
[23:02:15] <Fanskapet> http://www.bedoper.com/bedoper/g/contacts.jpg
[23:02:45] <Fanskapet> pretty old i guess though :) but i've found it at work this week :) was a while i was on the bedoper site :)
[23:03:06] <scanty> bedoper is weird.
[23:04:24] <PulkoMandy> +++
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[23:04:36] <Fanskapet> hmm :)
[23:04:47] <Fanskapet> ah well.. thunder outside
[23:05:02] <Fanskapet> gotta shutdown the computer before it starts glowing :D
[23:05:10] <scanty> hehe
[23:05:13] <scanty> nice chatting with you
[23:05:24] <scanty> stay dry
[23:05:25] <scanty> :)
[23:05:30] <scanty> and unelectrocuted
[23:05:36] <Fanskapet> :) same :D
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   July 15, 2005  
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