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[00:25:03] <@AndrewBachmann> mmu_man do you know if it is possible to make a hard drive partition with BFS that has a 8192 block size
[00:25:14] <@AndrewBachmann> I sort of did but it has "issues"
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[00:25:29] <@mmu_man> ask BGA
[00:25:33] <@geist> oh beos no way
[00:25:49] <@geist> unless you fixed the cache to be pretty small number of blocks
[00:25:52] <@mmu_man> might not work with the bl0ck cache
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[00:26:08] <@geist> and even then there might be some artificial limit in mkbfs and driver
[00:26:09] <@AndrewBachmann> I guess that's the issue
[00:26:16] <@geist> the beos block cache is extremely dumb
[00:26:16] <@mmu_man> geist hmm maybe it might work with tweaking kernel:disk_cache_size ?
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[00:26:20] <@AndrewBachmann> I used mkbfs to set it to 8192
[00:26:34] <@AndrewBachmann> thought I was being clever, guess not
[00:26:35] <@AndrewBachmann> :-)
[00:26:36] <@geist> yeah set the disk_cache_size to something really small
[00:26:49] <@AndrewBachmann> but then I get those RAM problems
[00:26:49] <@geist> but not too small
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[00:27:10] <@geist> basically the problem is the beos disk cache tracks number of blocks, not number of blocks * size
[00:27:22] <@AndrewBachmann> disk_cache_size = 24576
[00:27:35] <@geist> and at bootup it sets the number of cache blocks to equal memsize /1024 /fudge factor
[00:27:39] <@AndrewBachmann> hmm I should set it to half that then, I guess
[00:27:53] <@geist> which wouldn't be a problem except it allocates the cache blocks out of the kernel heap
[00:27:57] <@geist> which can only get to 100MB or so
[00:28:15] <@geist> I rewrote it when I was at be to be a lot smarter about that but the patch was never taken
[00:28:20] * geist shakes his fist at Be
[00:28:28] <@AndrewBachmann> I'll take your patch :-)
[00:28:38] <@geist> need the source
[00:28:39] <nathanw> heh
[00:28:50] <@geist> needless to say, the newos/haiku caching system will not have this problem
[00:29:10] <@AndrewBachmann> I guess I'll try 16384
[00:29:37] <@AndrewBachmann> hmm no good
[00:29:54] <@AndrewBachmann> that's 128MB
[00:30:05] <@geist> 8192
[00:30:14] <@AndrewBachmann> ok rebooting
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[00:30:34] <@geist> however, you can't set it too low or the number of blocks in the system wont be enough to hold all the active inodes in memory
[00:32:01] <@mmu_man> yeah fsil has a lot of heuristics for settings limits
[00:32:07] <@mmu_man> the whole kernel does actually
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[00:32:24] <@AndrewBachmann> hmm so far so good
[00:32:26] <@mmu_man> [revol@patrick ~]$ cat /dev/misc/sysinfo
[00:32:27] <@mmu_man> max_swap_size   436207616
[00:32:27] <@mmu_man> swap_size       135491584
[00:32:28] <@mmu_man> used_swap_size  12288
[00:32:28] <@mmu_man> nareas  32768
[00:32:29] <@mmu_man> nsems   65536
[00:32:30] <@mmu_man> nports  8192
[00:32:30] <@mmu_man> nteams  1024
[00:32:33] <@mmu_man> nthreads        4096
[00:32:47] <@geist> AndrewBachmann: so one of your drives is 8k?
[00:33:04] <@mmu_man> AndrewBachmann why for btw ? for storing your pr0n divx ?
[00:33:08] <@geist> but I assume the boot drive is 1k?
[00:33:09] <@AndrewBachmann> I initialized my new partition to 8k
[00:33:25] <@AndrewBachmann> it will be my new boot partition after I finish cloning myself
[00:33:31] <@geist> nah, I wouldn't do that
[00:33:32] <@geist> stick with 1k
[00:33:33] <@AndrewBachmann> mmu_man to avoid that attribute problem
[00:33:36] <@mmu_man> seeing how many bugs bfs has with 4K I don't even want to think abuot those with 8k
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[00:33:45] * mmu_man uses 2k always
[00:33:53] <@mmu_man> or use Zeta
[00:33:58] <@mmu_man> :P
[00:34:08] <@AndrewBachmann> my complimentary copy is still "in the mail"
[00:34:09] <@mmu_man> Bruno did nice on that
[00:34:19] <@geist> yeah I should fire up the ol beos machine some more
[00:34:25] <@AndrewBachmann> shuttle:/boot/home% cat /dev/misc/sysinfo
[00:34:26] <@AndrewBachmann> max_swap_size   0
[00:34:26] <@AndrewBachmann> swap_size       59682816
[00:34:27] <@AndrewBachmann> used_swap_size  0
[00:34:27] <@AndrewBachmann> nareas  8192
[00:34:28] <@AndrewBachmann> nsems   16384
[00:34:29] <@AndrewBachmann> nports  4096
[00:34:31] <@AndrewBachmann> nteams  1024
[00:34:33] <@AndrewBachmann> nthreads        4096
[00:34:34] <@geist> trouble is I could only find this old 40GB drive which is ridiculously noisy
[00:35:01] <@AndrewBachmann> seems you got more than me of everything
[00:35:10] * mmu_man pets his dual cel 400 vacuum cleaner^W^Wbox
[00:35:14] <@mmu_man> :)
[00:35:25] <@AndrewBachmann> lol I give away all my noisy components/machines :-)
[00:35:26] <@geist> well my athlon64 is pretty friggin noisy
[00:35:33] <@geist> but I only run it when I'm playing games
[00:35:39] <@AndrewBachmann> not as noisy as his box geist
[00:35:42] <nathanw> And then there are my dual Xeons
[00:35:49] <@geist> blah. my G5 is silent
[00:35:59] <nathanw> Which aren't on right now because my PSU caught fire
[00:36:04] <MikeW> my dual celeron is noisy too
[00:36:04] <@geist> the little pegasos machine is noisier that that thing
[00:36:16] <MikeW> geist: peasos II or III ?
[00:36:19] <@geist> II
[00:36:26] <@geist> didn't know there were IIIs
[00:36:26] <MikeW> are the 3s out yet?
[00:36:28] <@AndrewBachmann> mmu_man do you really think 8k is a bad idea ?
[00:36:48] <@mmu_man> AndrewBachmann well I wouldn't use something noone ever tested to hold my data
[00:36:50] <@geist> also remember the cache hits should go down. you have less distinct blocks in your cache
[00:36:57] <@mmu_man> you should read up dominic's book
[00:37:09] <@mmu_man> I recall him citing why he chose the values
[00:37:15] <@AndrewBachmann> ok, I want to avoid the attribute gets updated but people don't get notified bug
[00:37:17] <@geist> yeah I'm actually a little surprised it mounts it. is it the openbfs driver?
[00:37:21] <@AndrewBachmann> what block size should I use
[00:37:28] <@AndrewBachmann> not the openbfs driver
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[00:40:58] <@AndrewBachmann> if I use 2k am I still going to hit that attribute bug with mails mmu_man
[00:41:09] <slaad> What attribute bug?
[00:41:43] <@AndrewBachmann> you read the mail and the status gets set to Read but the live query does not get notified and so the mail sits there in the New Mail query looking stupid
[00:41:49] <slaad> Ahh.
[00:42:05] <slaad> Isn't that where the attribute size is larger than the small data area thingy?
[00:43:33] <nathanw> yeah
[00:43:37] <@AndrewBachmann> where the attribute is outside of the first block of the file
[00:43:46] <@AndrewBachmann> hence I wanted to make the block size larger
[00:43:49] <nathanw> If attributes don't fit in the inode, there are issues with live query updates
[00:43:58] <nathanw> I use 4K blocks and don't have any trouble with it
[00:44:08] <@AndrewBachmann> okay maybe I'll got to 4 K block size then
[00:45:14] <@mmu_man> BGA said it's caue an attribute in the small_data section is moved in its own inode to maek room for a smaller attr, or the other way round, but the attr dir isn't udpated correctly
[00:46:21] <BGA_> nathanw: No more. :)
[00:46:24] <BGA_> I fixed it. :)
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[00:46:27] <@AndrewBachmann> 4K block size and 16384 block cache size
[00:46:33] <slaad> Woah... wait up a second...
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[00:46:38] <slaad> BGA got off his ass and *did* something for once? :P
[00:46:42] <@BGA> AndrewBachmann: 4k block size is not a good idea.
[00:46:44] <nathanw> well, yes, I know BGA
[00:46:50] <nathanw> haha slaad
[00:46:59] <@AndrewBachmann> ok what is the recommendation then ? 2K ?
[00:47:00] <@BGA> BFS does not deal with that in a nice way.
[00:47:02] <@geist> BGA: you hacked on the bfs source? good luck
[00:47:13] <@geist> I hacked on that for a year or so after dbg left
[00:47:15] <@geist> it's pretty dense
[00:47:22] <@geist> not terrible, just scary to mess with
[00:47:30] <@BGA> slaad: very funny. :P Check yt's bugtracker and you will see if I am doing stuff or not. :P
[00:47:41] <@BGA> AndrewBachmann: I use 2k.
[00:47:48] <@AndrewBachmann> BGA you modified the original bfs ?
[00:47:52] <@BGA> This is the biggest you shoudl use in BFS, really.
[00:48:18] <@BGA> geist: You tell me, it is. :) But I manage to fix around 4 or 5 bugs on it...
[00:48:23] <@BGA> Including the FS notification bug...
[00:48:31] <slaad> FS notification bug?
[00:48:39] <@geist> yeah there were some unknown corruption bugs that would show up around Be that we never fixed
[00:48:44] <@BGA> When an attribute was outside the small data section and it was changed, update notifications were not being sent at all.
[00:48:48] <@geist> when I left I had a few hard disk images full of corrupt bfs partitions
[00:48:56] <slaad> Ah.
[00:48:56] <@BGA> It was a broken logic case.
[00:49:02] <@geist> there was some btree corruption that would occasionally show up that never got fixed
[00:49:09] <@BGA> AndrewBachmann: Yes.
[00:49:43] <@geist> right and that's why increasing the block size "fixes" it since the inode size == size of block iirc
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[00:49:59] <@AndrewBachmann> ok I'm going for a walk while it copyattr's my old disk to the new one
[00:50:03] <@AndrewBachmann> bbl
[00:50:16] <@BGA> geist: I noticed that too. Not fixed yet though. But I made it more resilient at least to some problematic cases.
[00:50:25] <@geist> the btree corruption?
[00:50:28] <@BGA> geist: Exactly.
[00:50:38] <@geist> yeah I had added some asserts in there to try to track it down
[00:50:49] <@geist> but it would only happen once a month or so
[00:50:57] <@geist> and we could never find it in the lab
[00:51:03] <@geist> and we were working on beia at the time
[00:51:07] <@geist> I spent most of my time in cfs
[00:51:24] <@geist> ever messed with that thing? try formatting a 8GB hard disk with it... :)
[00:51:25] <@BGA> geist: Question, did that BFS2 thing ever left the design stages?
[00:51:35] <@BGA> At some point you guys were looking on it, no?
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[00:51:37] <@geist> not that I know of
[00:51:52] <@geist> and i dont think it was that much of a change
[00:52:06] <@geist> we were always talking about things we'd like to fix, but most of them would require on disk changes
[00:52:15] <@geist> so I think there was a laundry list of things we'd like to fix
[00:52:19] <@BGA> geist: Heh. I guess 8Gb was not exactly the size you would expect to manage on those kinds of devices. :)
[00:52:20] <@geist> but I can't remember much of it anymore
[00:52:28] <@geist> yeah but I used to test it on a scsi disk a lot
[00:52:30] <@geist> stress it out
[00:52:43] <@BGA> Got it.z
[00:52:52] <@geist> cfs kicked ass. I was quite proud of it. Arve wrote the first pass, I cleaned it up and tested
[00:53:18] <@geist> I also wrote the memfs. are you guys using that?
[00:53:37] <@BGA> Anyway, even being dense, I have to give credit to dominic (and whoever else worked on it). It is not like the ideas there were new, but getting everything working together was an amazing achievement.
[00:53:39] <@geist> we figured out how to speed up builds by putting the entire source tree in a memfs volume
[00:53:56] <@geist> yeah and he wrote the cache + bfs in about 6 months
[00:53:56] 
[00:54:01] <@geist> yeah, that arve
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[00:54:10] <petterhj> you worked with him at Be?
[00:54:13] <@geist> sure
[00:54:22] <petterhj> oh :) was just wondering
[00:54:26] <@geist> used to go skiing a lot too
[00:54:29] <@BGA> geist: Not yet. But I will be the one doing most fs work anyway so I will be sure to check it out.
[00:54:50] <@geist> yeah at the minimum you should stress the memfs stuff osme more and mount it at /tmp
[00:55:01] <petterhj> he is norwegian like me (sorry to interrupt)
[00:55:02] <@geist> that helps speed up compiles by a nonzero amount
[00:55:26] <@geist> since even with -pipe, one of the gcc stages involves writing a temp file, which of course is slow on bfs
[00:55:48] <@geist> though that might be fixed with gcc 3.x
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[01:01:14] <@Dr_Evil> something is strange here, and I can't find the reason:
[01:01:21] <@Dr_Evil> media_input: node-id 4, node-port 2023, source-port 2044, source-id  1, dest-port 2023, dest-id 1, name "raw audio"
[01:01:25] <@Dr_Evil> media_output: node-id 5, node-port 2044, source-port 2044, source-id  1, dest-port 2023, dest-id 0, name "raw audio"
[01:01:53] <@Dr_Evil> dest-id doesn't match, should be 1 on both sides
[01:02:42] <@mmu_man> eh
[01:02:45] <@mmu_man> well zzz anyway
[01:03:21] <@Dr_Evil> me too
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[01:22:41] <CIA-3> bonefish * current/src/kernel/libroot/os/debug.c: Fixed warning.
[01:25:47] <CIA-3> bonefish * current/headers/os/kernel/debugger.h:
[01:25:47] <CIA-3> Added definitions for supporting single step, break- and watchpoints,
[01:25:47] <CIA-3> and setting the CPU state.
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[01:34:30] <CIA-3> bonefish * current/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
[01:34:30] <CIA-3> * New locking strategy for the team debug info. It's no longer protected
[01:34:30] <CIA-3> by the team lock, but by a lock in the structure. This is necessary
[01:34:30] <CIA-3> since we can't acquire the team lock while thread switching, for then the
[01:34:30] <CIA-3> thread lock is already held.
[01:34:30] <CIA-3> * Added support for single stepping and break-/watchpoints.
[01:37:41] <CIA-3> bonefish * current/src/kernel/core/team.c:
[01:37:41] <CIA-3> * Changes due to new team debug info locking strategy.
[01:37:41] <CIA-3> * In team_delete_team() we no longer explicitly destroy the team debug
[01:37:41] <CIA-3> info. It is not necessary, since the terminating debug nub thread will
[01:37:41] <CIA-3> do that anyway. Moreover we access the debugger port in a safer manner
[01:37:42] <CIA-3> now.
[01:40:19] <CIA-3> bonefish * current/src/kernel/core/thread.c:
[01:40:19] <CIA-3> * Atomic access to team debug flags.
[01:40:19] <CIA-3> * thread_exit_args::teamID -> original_team_id.
[01:40:37] <@geist> hmm, that thread exit stuff should be cleaned up
[01:40:58] <@geist> the current thread exit strategy was an experiment that I dont think was worth it
[01:41:28] <@geist> it's overly complex to solve a problem that probably is less of a problem than the solution created
[01:42:25] <CIA-3> bonefish * current/src/kernel/core/arch/x86/arch_int.c: Added musings about where to deal with debug registers.
[01:44:08] <CIA-3> bonefish * current/headers/private/kernel/arch/user_debugger.h:
[01:44:08] <CIA-3> * Added functions for clearing/destroying the architecture specific team
[01:44:08] <CIA-3> debug infos.
[01:44:08] <CIA-3> * Added function for setting the CPU state.
[01:44:08] <CIA-3> * Added functions for setting break-/watchpoints.
[01:45:06] <CIA-3> bonefish * current/headers/private/kernel/arch/x86/arch_user_debugger.h: x86 specific user debugging support definitions.
[01:48:56] <CIA-3> bonefish * current/src/kernel/core/arch/x86/arch_user_debugger.cpp:
[01:48:56] <CIA-3> Added function for setting the CPU state (not implemented yet) and
[01:48:56] <CIA-3> functions for setting break-/watchpoints (implemented).
[01:48:56] <CIA-3> Break-/watchpoints don't work yet, though. Missing is still the setting
[01:48:56] <CIA-3> of the debug control register DR7 somewhere in the interrupt code and
[01:48:56] <CIA-3> the handling of debug exceptions.
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[02:00:34] * MikeW wants to do atrus catsup 100
[02:02:01] <MikeW> just wondering guys, with the ide replacement driver bootdisk, can I boot an existing beos installation with it?
[02:02:06] <MikeW> as in one I
[02:02:35] <MikeW> 've already already installed on the hdd but won't boot thanks to unsupported driver. Point the bootdisk at it, and continue booting it?
[02:08:25] <@AndrewBachmann> probably
[02:09:10] <@AndrewBachmann> worth a shot anyway
[02:10:09] <MikeW> I'll disscet one of my computers to take out that floppy drive and put it in my new machine :)
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[02:11:25] <MikeW> whoops
[02:11:43] <@AndrewBachmann> how's that
[02:11:46] <@AndrewBachmann> lol
[02:11:49] <@AndrewBachmann> I didn't realize you could flood privately
[02:11:52] <@AndrewBachmann> should've opened a DCC chat
[02:12:04] <MikeW> 24 lines
[02:12:12] <@AndrewBachmann> let's try it on DCC
[02:12:21] <MikeW> ah, this is MUCH faster too
[02:12:31] <@AndrewBachmann> should be
[02:12:33] <@AndrewBachmann> direct connection
[02:13:29] <MikeW> thanks :)
[02:13:39] <MikeW> now, who wants to write the bot to do that ;)
[02:15:34] <@AndrewBachmann> hmm while I went for a walk my machine copied 13 GB
[02:16:20] <@AndrewBachmann> only 9 GB to go!
[02:16:59] <MikeW> hope you aren't copying it over SMB
[02:17:23] <@AndrewBachmann> I'm copying it over IDE
[02:17:24] <@AndrewBachmann> lol
[02:22:30] <@AndrewBachmann> wow it copied 4 GB more in just that time
[02:22:43] <@AndrewBachmann> larger files copy faster is my supposition
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[02:33:39] <@AndrewBachmann> hmm only 780MB left, speedy
[02:34:05] <@AndrewBachmann> of course, they are on different controllers
[02:42:47] <@AndrewBachmann> done, time to reboot, be back soon, hopefully....
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[02:45:40] <@AndrewBachmann> yee haw
[02:45:44] <@AndrewBachmann> ann>	an almost perfect copy
[02:46:09] <@AndrewBachmann> my desktop icons got all messed up but that was expected
[02:48:39] <slaad> BeOS, AndrewBachmann?
[02:49:23] <@AndrewBachmann> yeah
[02:49:44] <@AndrewBachmann> just copyattr -r -d -v /olddrive/* /newdrive
[02:49:47] <slaad> Try changing the resolution, that fixes it for me.
[02:50:03] <slaad> (ie. Go Normal -> 640 x 480 -> Normal)
[02:50:10] <@AndrewBachmann> well, too late now
[02:50:16] <slaad> Changed everything?
[02:50:17] <@AndrewBachmann> I'm cleaning it up manually anyway
[02:50:27] * slaad nods
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[02:54:43] <@AndrewBachmann> wow this is kind of trippy
[02:55:42] <@AndrewBachmann> it's hard to believe I'm on a new hard drive
[02:56:59] <@AndrewBachmann> :-(
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[02:57:07] <@AndrewBachmann> my new mail doesn't come up in the query
[02:57:08] <@AndrewBachmann> dammit
[02:57:25] <slaad> lsindex ?
[02:57:40] <agentmumu> http://img95.exs.cx/img95/272/mozillaadware4vs.png
[02:57:45] <@AndrewBachmann> only my _new_ New Mail comes up in the query
[02:57:57] <@AndrewBachmann> guess I have to rebuild my indexes
[02:58:22] <agentmumu> oh: Several users have noted that the screenshot is likely fake.
[02:58:28] <@AndrewBachmann> funny agentmumu
[02:58:31] <@AndrewBachmann> obviously
[03:00:51] <@AndrewBachmann> reindex -r MAIL:status . to the rescue
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[03:57:52] <@AndrewBachmann> where ya goin' fyysik
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[04:02:44] <fyysik> AndrewBachmann - NYC
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[04:20:00] <@AndrewBachmann> weird, somehow in my copy I lost my media plugins directory
[04:20:19] <@AndrewBachmann> that's not very comforting
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[06:37:39] <Noshter> hi #haiku, anyone awake?
[06:38:16] <tic> kind-of
[06:39:33] <Noshter> I need a little help concerning the AMD kernel patch and I need someone who's in Be to verify something for me.
[06:40:25] <tic> hrm, sorry, I really have to go right now.  talk to slaad in #beclan, he's on AMD
[06:40:55] <Noshter> ok, np, thanks
[06:42:57] <slaad> Mmmhmm?
[06:43:21] <Noshter> have a minute to spare for a question?
[06:43:51] <slaad> Sure
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[06:46:15] <Noshter> Using an Athlon XP and of course that means my R5Pro CD won't boot.  I've ripped the Pro CD to a Nero disc image and am using a hex editor to replace the "GenuineIntel" string with "AuthenticAMD" which should fix my problem.  I've found a number of them and am looking for which one is the correct one to replace.
[06:47:16] <slaad> Hrm... no idea sorry.
[06:47:17] <Noshter> and whether or not fixing any of these will allow the CD to boot ...
[06:47:22] <slaad> Have a look on BeTips.net
[06:47:49] <Noshter> ok, been there done that, so I'll just continue experimenting.  Thanks.
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[09:12:31] <@JBurton> hi
[09:14:11] <@geist> yo
[09:14:21] <@JBurton> hey geist
[09:16:21] <@geist> yo
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[09:35:36] <w-ber> hm, it will be interesting to see if Zeta 1.0 is any different from Zeta Neo
[09:36:35] * Soulbender can contain his excitement
[09:38:25] <w-ber> well, it would have indeed been more exciting to see Zeta 1.0 three years ago :)
[09:39:35] <@geist> heh
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[09:52:12] <@JBurton> anyone tried to build latest ruby on beos ?
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[09:57:50] <Soulbender> obelix has
[09:57:53] <Soulbender> ;)
[09:58:15] <@JBurton> er, is that a joke ?
[09:59:42] <Soulbender> no
[09:59:50] <Soulbender> i seem to recall he said he did
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[10:12:52] <@Korli> hey JBurton
[10:17:53] <@JBurton> hi Korli
[10:21:27] <@Korli> this Haiku-Key discussion is going nowhere
[10:21:46] <[Beta]XP> pointless, isnt it ?
[10:21:48] <Soulbender> Ctrl vs. Alt
[10:21:51] <@geist> which discussion? on a mailing list or something?
[10:21:55] <Soulbender> almost as fun as Vi vs. Emacs
[10:22:05] <[Beta]XP> then it moves into the constantly discussed ctrl/alt
[10:22:55] <[Beta]XP> geist, the main openbeos ml
[10:23:49] <[Beta]XP> someone asked about a sticker for the 'win' key; and people went off talking about shortcuts
[10:27:04] <@JBurton> Soulbender oh, great, I guess I'll ask him, then
[10:27:21] <@JBurton> Korli as most other discussion we're having on the main list :P
[10:27:27] <@JBurton> discussionS
[10:28:06] <sys2> make it dynamic for the user to set if he likes
[10:28:18] <[Beta]XP> well, r5 had that, so arent we ?
[10:28:35] <@JBurton> it's a hack in R5, it makes other things utterly complex
[10:29:02] <sys2> does it
[10:29:03] <Soulbender> ctrl-c wont work in terminal no more, for example
[10:29:08] <sys2> no B_HAIKU_KEY ? :>
[10:29:37] <@JBurton> eheh yeah, Soulbender
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[10:34:45] <Methe> hello
[10:35:18] <@JBurton> hi Methe
[10:35:22] <Methe> I didn't know a static method cannot use datas of it's class
[10:35:25] <Methe> hey JBurton
[10:35:39] <Methe> I'm fighting to use C and C++ together
[10:36:39] <@JBurton> Methe well it wouldn't be static otherwise
[10:36:42] <@JBurton> there is a trick though
[10:36:50] <Methe> explain to me :)
[10:36:52] <@JBurton> you can pass the class pointer (this) via argument
[10:37:06] <Methe> MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
[10:37:07] <@JBurton> i.e. you have a static function called FooStatic(void *arg)
[10:37:27] <@JBurton> you call it (from a non-static function) like "FooStatic(this)"
[10:37:44] <Methe> ahah
[10:37:48] <Methe> that's really a trick lol
[10:37:48] <@JBurton> and then, inside it, you cast the void * argument to a pointer to a class object
[10:37:54] <@JBurton> well, it's widely used :P
[10:37:59] <@JBurton> I guess it's even "official"
[10:38:03] <Methe> well I didn't know it :)
[10:38:06] <@JBurton> :P
[10:38:08] <Methe> now I do.
[10:38:11] <Methe> thanks a lot
[10:38:15] <@JBurton> no problem :P
[10:38:18] * Methe goes for a try of it
[10:44:08] <@Korli> JBurton i think Terminal should reverse Alt and Ctrl as well when they're reversed system-wide
[10:44:55] <@JBurton> Korli it does, IIRC
[10:45:06] <@JBurton> but it's bad anyway
[10:45:18] <@JBurton> I mean, ALT-C to send sigkill is weird
[10:46:49] <Soulbender> sigint, not sigkill
[10:46:51] <Soulbender> ;)
[10:47:22] <@JBurton> we
[10:47:23] <@JBurton> er
[10:47:24] <@JBurton> well
[10:47:25] <@JBurton> yeah :P
[10:47:26] <@JBurton> sorry
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[10:57:43] <@JBurton> hi mahlzeit
[10:57:51] <@mahlzeit> hey JBurton
[10:58:01] <Soulbender> hey mahlzeit
[10:58:04] <@JBurton> " The size of the strace executable was ridiculous (1.8 MB). This attempt
[10:58:05] <@JBurton> ton>	to trim the templatized interface improves the situation, but we're still
[10:58:05] <@JBurton> quite heavy (400 KB).
[10:58:05] <@JBurton> "
[10:58:06] <@JBurton> omg
[10:58:16] <@JBurton> templates are evil :P
[10:58:18] <@mahlzeit> hey Soulbender
[10:58:28] <@mahlzeit> it>	it seems jef raskin is no more
[10:59:46] <Methe> HIHO mahlzeit
[10:59:51] <@mahlzeit> hey Methe
[11:02:33] <@mahlzeit> brb
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[11:05:31] * Methe 's brain enters KDL and re read JBurton's explanation
[11:06:50] <@JBurton> want an example ?
[11:06:53] <@JBurton> Methe
[11:07:00] <Methe> sure
[11:07:01] <Methe> :)
[11:07:11] <@geist> wow, that's pretty huge
[11:07:27] <@JBurton> see void
[11:07:28] <@JBurton> BDirectWindow::InitData()
[11:07:36] <@JBurton> here: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/open-beos/current/src/kits/game/DirectWindow.cpp?rev=1.8&view=markup
[11:07:46] <@JBurton> Methe the part where spawn_thread is done
[11:08:07] <@JBurton> geist yeah :)
[11:08:09] <sys2> geist, i try again ... how much work do you think it would be to migrate your x86_64 sources to haiku .. as the kernel is the same in the base? :>
[11:09:34] <@JBurton> Methe and then, have a look at the "DirectDeamonFunc"
[11:09:43] <Methe> I am
[11:10:25] <@JBurton> ok, see as I cast the argument to a class object ?
[11:10:33] <Methe> yes
[11:10:40] <@JBurton> ok
[11:10:44] <@JBurton> any question ? :P
[11:10:49] <Methe> but it seems it doesn't stick much to what I need to do
[11:10:58] <Methe> but I'm probably wrong :)
[11:11:06] <@JBurton> eheh
[11:11:24] <Methe> I need a C func that has no parameters
[11:11:27] <@JBurton> well, you asked about a specific thing, I replied, so what do you want ? :P
[11:11:43] <Methe> which can read data of a class
[11:11:55] <@JBurton> hmmm you want a bit much don't you ? :P
[11:11:56] <Methe> so my first attempt was just to put that func into the class and put it static
[11:12:02] <Methe> well lol
[11:12:05] <Methe> reading it now
[11:12:08] <Methe> i guess u're right
[11:12:09] <@JBurton> use a static global, then
[11:12:09] <@JBurton> :P
[11:12:12] <Methe> im asking for a lot :)
[11:12:19] <@JBurton> isn't it so nice, though it could work
[11:12:25] <Methe> you warm my coder heart here
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[11:12:31] <@JBurton> :)
[11:12:34] <Methe> that's what just poped into my mind: use a glabal
[11:12:47] <Methe> so got the correct idea for once
[11:12:53] <@JBurton> as you can't pass parameters, there aren't so many ways
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[11:13:06] <Methe> well you know the problem is that I have no choice
[11:13:10] <Methe> I must have a C++ design
[11:13:18] <Methe> and a C func for openGl rendering
[11:13:38] <Methe> my teacher probably didn't think much before giving us that
[11:13:48] <Methe> anyway
[11:13:53] <Methe> :)
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[11:14:39] <Methe> thx anyway JBurton i'll remember your trick
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[11:14:48] <Methe> but it seems familiar to me I might have already used it :)
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[11:16:05] <@JBurton> eheh
[11:16:09] <@JBurton> could be
[11:16:11] <@JBurton> :)
[11:17:26] <Methe> yes I have now I remember :) specially fits with spawn_thread indeed
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[11:18:19] <@JBurton> yeah :)
[11:19:30] <Methe> I guess in the end my brain just didnt code for a while. (huhu)
[11:20:05] <@JBurton> brb coffee time
[11:21:49] <Methe> damn it there's not a single guy oninternet who has bebook with headers online
[11:23:29] <@mahlzeit> hmm fridge == empty evaluates to true
[11:23:50] <jonaskirilla> Methe: with the Be include files?
[11:23:57] <Methe> yes jonaskirilla
[11:24:03] <kma> mahlzeit: well, if you have a strong stomach you can eat the fridge itself :)
[11:24:11] <jonaskirilla> I wonder how large the bebook is
[11:24:20] <jonaskirilla> I could host it
[11:24:33] <Methe> well beUnited's annoted bebook is down
[11:24:51] <Methe> (again)
[11:25:07] <Methe> but bebook is not big jonaskirilla
[11:25:09] <@mahlzeit> kma: too cold
[11:25:12] <Methe> it's only HTML
[11:25:16] <Methe> with not much pics
[11:25:32] <jonaskirilla> it's disturbing that BU can't seem to get their www sorted
[11:26:31] <kma> mahlzeit: well, cook it :)
[11:26:35] <Methe> jonaskirilla can you paste me Application.h here http://rafb.net/paste/ :))
[11:27:03] <kma> mahlzeit: I've heard that old carpet works nice with fridge.. and some red wine
[11:27:17] <Methe> kma always wine
[11:27:34] <jonaskirilla> http://rafb.net/paste/results/SiVh0h71.html
[11:27:46] <@mahlzeit> kma: well, i'm trying to lose weight ;-)
[11:27:53] <jonaskirilla> Methe: http://rafb.net/paste/results/SiVh0h71.html
[11:28:13] <Methe> thx
[11:28:22] <kma> mahlzeit: oh.. then go for the plastic plants and curtains.. they are very low cal
[11:28:33] <@mahlzeit> Methe: you can also look in cvs.openbeos.org :-)
[11:28:55] <@mahlzeit> or... i could go to the store
[11:29:39] <kma> mahlzeit: true.. but that's not a funny answer.. I thought we were trying out this dry humor thingie
[11:30:09] <@mahlzeit> not on an empty stomach! :-)
[11:30:13] <kma> hehe
[11:30:24] <kma> and there was the punchline
[11:30:30] <@JBurton> re
[11:30:59] <@JBurton> Methe actually I usually peek into haiku's headers :P
[11:31:18] <@JBurton> hmmm I see mahlzeit already suggested this
[11:31:33] <kma> hmm
[11:31:42] <kma> bonefish seam to be really active lately
[11:32:04] <@JBurton> yeah
[11:32:42] * Methe turns mad
[11:34:05] <Methe> extern World *g_world;
[11:34:19] <Methe> linker says "undefined reference to g_world
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[11:34:26] <Methe> header are includes
[11:34:29] <Methe> lo BGA
[11:34:31] <Soulbender> oh no! the world is gone
[11:34:53] <@JBurton> lol
[11:35:13] <@JBurton> Methe is g_World defined somewhere ?
[11:35:29] <@JBurton> (obviously not)
[11:36:12] <Methe> well yeah
[11:36:14] <Methe> in header.h
[11:36:18] <Methe> in world.h
[11:36:19] <Methe> :D
[11:36:23] <Methe> which is included
[11:36:30] <Methe> into the file where I need it
[11:38:24] <@JBurton> hmmm you should define it in a c/cpp file
[11:38:27] <@JBurton> not in a header
[11:38:32] <Methe> :o
[11:38:41] <@JBurton> the header should just contain "extern World g_world"
[11:38:54] <@JBurton> or whatever
[11:39:00] <Methe> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ZyfEdA32.html for the header
[11:39:03] <Methe> well yeah ok
[11:39:32] <@JBurton> extern World *g_world; that's not a definition
[11:39:48] <Methe> its a declaration
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[11:40:15] <idJoe> aih
[11:40:19] <idJoe> lambat nian
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[11:48:50] <@JBurton> Methe yeah
[11:48:54] <@JBurton> you need a definition :P
[11:56:36] <@mmu_man> ...skipped libbe.so for lack of <src!kits>Application.o...
[11:56:43] <@mmu_man> I *don't* care about libbe !
[11:56:44] <@mmu_man> f*
[12:01:20] <kr1stof> mmu_man: time for some questions?
[12:02:59] <@mmu_man> src/servers/input/InputServer.cpp:261: SystemKeymap.cpp: No such file or directory
[12:03:02] <@mmu_man> wtf
[12:10:38] <@JBurton> trying haiku's input server on zeta ? :P
[12:12:01] <@JBurton> mmu_man
[12:13:20] <@JBurton> that file is auto generated, mmu_man
[12:14:21] <@mmu_man> trying to compile it
[12:14:29] <@mmu_man> jam wants to build libbe and other crap
[12:14:36] <@mmu_man> and a makefile doesn't work
[12:14:39] <@JBurton> yes, because our input server depends on our libbe
[12:14:46] <@JBurton> unless COMPILE_FOR_R5 is specified
[12:16:00] <@mmu_man> tycom still down ?
[12:17:39] <@JBurton> yeah
[12:18:52] <jonaskirilla> yo, what's a solid __BEOS__ define to use?
[12:19:28] <@mmu_man> ?
[12:19:30] <@JBurton> __BEOS__
[12:19:30] <@JBurton> :)
[12:19:47] <@mmu_man> B_BEOS_VERSION < B_BEOS_VERISON_DANO ?
[12:21:35] <@mahlzeit> bah only old vegetables in the store
[12:21:44] <@mahlzeit> it>	i don't like eating compost
[12:24:27] <sys2> is anyone more then darkwyrm working on the app server?
[12:24:46] <@JBurton> adi oanca
[12:24:52] <@JBurton> (sometimes)
[12:25:10] <sys2> feels like it is the major part missing and almost never any work on it? :>
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[12:25:28] <sys2> or am i wrong? :>
[12:26:50] <jonaskirilla> thanks JBurton
[12:27:12] <@JBurton> jonaskirilla well, it depends on what you need. If you need it for porting some unix stuff, that's the best
[12:27:23] <@JBurton> if you need to distinguish beos from zeta, it's not
[12:27:30] <@JBurton> sys2 could be :P
[12:27:34] <jonaskirilla> JBurton: yes that's what I need it for
[12:27:44] <@JBurton> at least, can't see any other major part missing
[12:29:05] <jonaskirilla> mmu_man: Does Dano and Zeta support any Unicisms better than R5/Bone?
[12:29:15] <@mmu_man> like ?
[12:29:25] <jonaskirilla> I don't know, that's why I'm asking
[12:29:32] <@mmu_man> so how do I jam input_server with COMPILE_FOR_R5 ???
[12:29:40] <sys2> JBurton, that sucks :/
[12:29:48] <jonaskirilla> mmu_man: usleep, for example
[12:29:49] <@mmu_man> jam input_server -DCOMPILE_FOR_R5=1 ?
[12:30:11] <@mmu_man> jonaskirilla oh yeah well I added usleep() in libroot as I got fed up with #defines
[12:30:22] <@mmu_man> and usleep sets errno, which snooze doesn't
[12:30:37] <@JBurton> mmu_man yeah, I guess
[12:30:47] <@JBurton> or "export COMPILE_FOR_R5=1"
[12:30:48] <@JBurton> jam
[12:30:56] <jonaskirilla> mmu_man: on Zeta, I take it?
[12:31:12] <@mmu_man> on zeta what ?
[12:31:43] <jonaskirilla> mmu_man: what platforms did you apply this to?
[12:31:53] <@mmu_man> usleep ?
[12:31:55] <@mmu_man> zeta of course
[12:31:56] <jonaskirilla> yeah
[12:31:58] <@JBurton> <mmu_man> jonaskirilla oh yeah well I added usleep() in libroot as I got fed up with #defines
[12:32:05] <jonaskirilla> yeah, that's what I asked
[12:32:06] <jonaskirilla> :)
[12:32:09] <@JBurton> I don't think there are other ways to add something to libroot
[12:32:10] <@mmu_man> oh, yeah well that's an easy one I'll add in haiku as well
[12:32:10] <@JBurton> :)
[12:32:16] <@JBurton> mmu_man IIRC it's already in there
[12:32:21] <@mmu_man> well then :p
[12:32:40] <jonaskirilla> could have been Haiku, not that it would be much use to me right now
[12:32:52] <jonaskirilla> but it could have been
[12:34:02] <@mmu_man> unistd/usleep.c:usleep(unsigned useconds)
[12:34:08] <@mmu_man> righto
[12:34:11] <sys2> http://www.bash.org/?36747
[12:34:27] <@mmu_man> but it's as wrong as I did first
[12:34:31] <@mmu_man> let's fix
[12:34:52] <@mmu_man> ...skipped rc for lack of <src!tools!rc>rc.o...
[12:34:54] <@mmu_man> f*
[12:37:53] <@JBurton> mmu_man doesn't set errno, right ?
[12:42:05] <CIA-3> mmu_man * current/src/kernel/libroot/posix/unistd/usleep.c:
[12:42:06] <CIA-3> if you want to return something at least be consistent with the version of usleep which returns an int... (return -1 and set errno)
[12:42:06] <CIA-3> see http://www.die.net/doc/linux/man/man3/usleep.3.html
[12:42:24] <jonaskirilla> we don't have dlopen(), right?
[12:42:41] <@mmu_man> lunch
[12:43:05] <@JBurton> jonaskirilla sure we have it
[12:43:07] <@JBurton> in libdl.so
[12:43:21] <jonaskirilla> cool
[12:43:57] <jonaskirilla> that's not part of the base system, thoug?
[12:44:19] <jonaskirilla> oh, right, Haiku
[12:44:39] <@JBurton> jonaskirilla no, it's on bebits :P
[12:44:46] <jonaskirilla> onaskirilla>	on my way
[12:45:12] <@mahlzeit> yum this is some good salad
[12:47:09] <@JBurton> salad and good can't be in the same sentence
[12:48:17] <@mahlzeit> then you haven't tasted this one!
[12:48:20] <[Beta]XP> only if you include "is" & "for nothing"
[12:48:41] <@JBurton> mmu_man is sleep() supposed to behave the same ?
[12:48:45] <@JBurton> if so, http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/open-beos/current/src/kernel/libroot/posix/unistd/sleep.c?rev=1.3&view=markup is broken too
[12:50:31] <@JBurton> brb
[12:50:39] <@JBurton> lunch-snack time
[12:51:34] <@mmu_man> http://www.rt.com/man/sleep.3.html
[12:51:38] <@mmu_man> Zero  if  the requested time has elapsed, or the number of         seconds left to sleep.
[12:51:55] <@mmu_man> no that's ok it seems
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[12:59:41] <sys2> in almost 20 days darkwyrm made the huge contribution of a crash fix
[12:59:48] <sys2> great :/
[13:00:05] <sys2> A small crash fix whilst testing with a stock People app
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[13:01:15] <@JBurton> re
[13:01:20] <@JBurton> hey and
[13:01:24] <@JBurton> doh
[13:01:44] <@JBurton> that means the stuff works, though
[13:02:02] <sys2> sure but would be nice with more then one commit every 20 days :P
[13:02:30] <@JBurton> ever heard of lack of time ?
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[13:03:05] <sys2> sure but still ... to take on a task like the app server and then not have time to work on it? :>
[13:04:06] <sys2> and you are working on it also? :>
[13:04:23] <@JBurton> no :P
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[13:04:38] <@mahlzeit> that's what happens when everyone is a volunteer
[13:04:45] <sys2> Commit by jackburton  ::  current/src/kits/app/Handler.cpp:
[13:04:47] <@JBurton> I'm working (very rarely, lately) on the interface kit, mostly
[13:04:59] <@JBurton> but actually I work on what I want :)
[13:05:02] <@JBurton> yeah
[13:05:06] <@JBurton> saw an issue, fixed
[13:05:10] <@JBurton> but that's not the app server
[13:05:12] <[Beta]XP> I volunteered to watch. What would be nice, sys2, is Uncle Sam :p
[13:05:28] <sys2> uncle sam?
[13:05:38] <sys2> the creator of the most sucky stupid country in the world? :>
[13:06:58] <[Beta]XP> point. natalie portman would be better encouragement
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[13:20:39] <[Beta]XP> "Each film is about 100 gigabytes and has been compressed from an original one terabyte-size file." .. hardly DivX standards :)
[13:21:05] <[Beta]XP> wonder when people will start hacking digital cinemas, and getting films on the day.
[13:21:24] <@mahlzeit> on what day?
[13:22:46] <Soulbender> the day the earth stood still
[13:22:57] <@mahlzeit> that is a great movie
[13:23:17] <@mahlzeit> not quite plan 9, but still
[13:23:40] <Soulbender> heh
[13:29:27] <jonaskirilla> what's the usual way to add an OS-native lib to an autoconf build?
[13:32:20] <@mahlzeit> detect the platform and add it to LDFLAGS?
[13:32:36] <jonaskirilla> LDFLAGS..
[13:32:40] <jonaskirilla> checking..
[13:32:48] <jonaskirilla> in configure.in ?
[13:33:22] <@mahlzeit> yes
[13:33:38] <@mahlzeit> unless they used automake, in which case you add it to the configure.am (or what is it called)
[13:34:38] <jonaskirilla> I see a couple of Makefile.am but only configure.in
[13:34:58] <@mahlzeit> hmm, my memory fails me actually
[13:35:10] <@mahlzeit> it>	i think automake turns makefile.am into a configure.in
[13:35:22] <@mahlzeit> but maybe it doesn't :-)
[13:35:31] <@mahlzeit> it>	i always forget how this crap works
[13:35:39] <jonaskirilla> yeah
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[13:35:54] <jonaskirilla> arcane
[13:36:39] <jonaskirilla> how about acinclude.m4 ?
[13:36:39] <@JBurton> what about autoheader ?
[13:36:44] <@JBurton> autoconf ?
[13:36:49] <@JBurton> autos**t ?
[13:37:23] <@mahlzeit> hmm i could look in an old project of mine... :-)
[13:38:07] <jonaskirilla> I can't find an LDFLAGS in the relevant configure.in
[13:38:12] <jonaskirilla> trying to look at some other
[13:38:56] <@mahlzeit> hmm, this old project is useles because it uses libtool
[13:39:30] <jonaskirilla> something like this maybe: LDFLAGS="$LDFLAGS -framework"
[13:39:51] <@mahlzeit> yeah you can add that to configure.in
[13:39:53] <jonaskirilla> now, where to put it in configure.in..
[13:39:57] <@mahlzeit> doesn't matter
[13:40:05] <jonaskirilla> needs to be for BeOS only
[13:40:08] <@mahlzeit> above AC_OUTPUT anyway
[13:41:13] <@mahlzeit> something like this:
[13:41:14] <@mahlzeit> AC_CANONICAL_SYSTEM
[13:41:14] <@mahlzeit> LDFLAGS=""
[13:41:14] <@mahlzeit> case $target_os in
[13:41:14] <@mahlzeit> beos*)
[13:41:14] <@mahlzeit> LDFLAGS="$LDFLAGS do stuff here"
[13:41:15] <@mahlzeit> ;;
[13:41:17] <@mahlzeit> esac
[13:42:49] <jonaskirilla> yeah.. I don't see AC_CANONICAL_SYSTEM though
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[13:43:15] <@mahlzeit> you need that after AC_INIT() at the top
[13:43:24] <@mahlzeit> so it checks the target os
[13:43:30] <@JBurton> btw, looks like haiku has dl_open in libroot too http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/open-beos/current/src/kernel/libroot/posix/dlfcn.c?rev=1.4&view=markup
[13:43:31] <Dr3w> hey folks.
[13:43:34] <@JBurton> hi Dr3w
[13:44:00] <Dr3w> I got to read my morning email today on the front of HaikuNews :)
[13:44:22] <jonaskirilla> great JBurton
[13:46:14] <kma> Dr3w: :)
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[13:47:20] <jonaskirilla> JBurton: or are there two?
[13:48:05] <@JBurton> jonaskirilla two what ?
[13:48:32] <jonaskirilla> maybe I missunderstood.. two implementations of dl* in Haiku
[13:48:56] <jonaskirilla> one fixed by mmu_man earlier this chat, and the one you linked
[13:49:54] <@JBurton> jonaskirilla actually, what mmu_man fixed was usleep(), IIRC
[13:50:13] <jonaskirilla> JBurton: oh right
[13:51:01] <@mahlzeit> oh the decay of our neurons :-)
[13:51:33] <@JBurton> brb
[13:53:24] <jonaskirilla> I was about to say something about neurons myself.. strange coincidence
[13:54:15] <@mahlzeit> hmmm
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[14:01:01] <Dr3w> perhaps its in your neurons.
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[14:04:35] <jonaskirilla> they've become selfaware..
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[14:28:14] <Dr3w> Does anyone remember a web site where a guy squashed cats into jars?
[14:28:29] <@mahlzeit> yes
[14:28:34] <@mahlzeit> bonsaikitten
[14:30:15] <@JBurton> does anyone know what a serial driver is supposed to do ? :P
[14:30:37] <@JBurton> s/what/how much
[14:30:54] <@mahlzeit> drive cars and leave clues for the police
[14:31:05] <@JBurton> lol
[14:37:40] <Dr3w> the iPod shuffle is quite good.
[14:37:53] <swer> what does it taste like? :D
[14:38:11] <Dr3w> just plastic.
[14:38:21] <Dr3w> like a toothbrush with no toothpaste on.
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[14:50:45] <@JBurton> hey mmu_man
[14:50:49] <@JBurton> welcome back
[14:51:25] <@mmu_man> re
[14:52:21] <@JBurton> mmu_man I remember you had a semi-working parallel driver....
[14:52:34] <@JBurton> dont' you have also a serial one, btw ? :P
[14:53:52] <@mmu_man> neh
[14:58:09] <@JBurton> I still can't understand how much a serial driver have to do, and how much is tty bus manager's work
[15:01:31] <@mmu_man> the serial driver (zz in R5) just registers itself with the tty manager
[15:01:40] <@mmu_man> gives it hooks to read and write data to the serial port
[15:01:54] <@mmu_man> and forwards it the read() and write() requests
[15:02:09] <@mmu_man> letting it handle all the nifty crap like ioctls to set rate and such
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[15:13:49] <@JBurton> okay I see
[15:14:16] <@JBurton> thanks
[15:14:30] <@JBurton> I guess we have to do the same, btw
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[15:26:00] <@JBurton> though our tty isn't yet splitted to be a driver AND a busmanager
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[15:46:02] <@mahlzeit> heh, they are going to make a movie about napster
[15:51:04] <@JBurton> hmmm exciting
[15:51:16] <@mahlzeit> they should make a movie about me!
[15:51:20] <@mahlzeit> :-)
[15:51:44] <@mahlzeit> hmm, maybe i should start on Haiku, the screenplay
[15:52:12] <@mahlzeit> it>	it will probably be 120 pages of this:
[15:52:19] <@mahlzeit> INT. IRC CHANNEL - DAY
[15:52:26] <@mahlzeit> JBurton and Mahlzeit are chatting.
[15:54:18] <@JBurton> eheh lol
[15:54:29] <@JBurton> anyway, bbl, I'm hungry
[15:55:01] <w-ber> just set up a webcam and upload the live feed to the Internet. Behold! World's first on-line movie! (yeah, right)
[15:59:07] <[Beta]XP> we could book a digital cinema screen for a few weeks, and use BeOS to display all our little webcams on the projector at once :) even show off turning CPU #8 off
[16:03:50] <@JBurton> bored
[16:04:10] <@mahlzeit> how come?
[16:04:22] <@JBurton> I'm alone
[16:04:29] <@JBurton> no one called this afternoon
[16:04:37] <@JBurton> got no work to do
[16:04:39] <@mahlzeit> good excuse to play games :-)
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[16:05:20] <@JBurton> mmmmh can't, this is the @work pc
[16:05:36] <@mahlzeit> bring your ps2 with you :-)
[16:05:53] <@JBurton> eheh
[16:06:07] <@JBurton> yeah, I've just bought two nice games :P
[16:06:50] <@JBurton> but I didn't know this could've been a 0-work day
[16:07:10] <@JBurton> friday I had 100%-work day
[16:07:15] <@mahlzeit> yuck :-)
[16:07:51] <@JBurton> instead, I could've written something for haiku
[16:07:56] <@JBurton> like... an insult mail :)
[16:09:00] <@mahlzeit> damn, there's this 5-day course on lowbudget filmmaking soon, but i'm on vacation then...
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[16:10:01] <@JBurton> mahlzeit damn you could just lose the big chance of your life
[16:10:15] <@mahlzeit> nah
[16:11:40] <@mahlzeit> _real_ lowbudget would be without taking his course :-)
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[16:13:16] <@JBurton> eheh
[16:13:18] <@JBurton> right
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[16:23:51] <[Beta]XP> have any Books{BeBook style} been written on the APIs we're creating to replace the private Be ones? like FS, media, etc?
[16:24:19] <Methe> they are the same
[16:24:24] <Methe> so beBook is ours
[16:24:51] <@mahlzeit> actually, the doc team is supposed to replace the bebook
[16:25:12] <Methe> yes but that's for a license stuff IIRC
[16:25:13] <[Beta]XP> I thought one or two APIs werent in the BeBook.. hmm
[16:25:30] <[Beta]XP> just thought even our private ones might be usefully documented
[16:26:00] <@mahlzeit> that's the plan, i think
[16:26:09] <[Beta]XP> k
[16:26:10] <Methe> u forgot the (TM) mahlzeit
[16:26:17] <@mahlzeit> where?
[16:26:24] <Methe> <mahlzeit> that's the plan
[16:26:30] <@mahlzeit> ahlzeit>	ah
[16:26:54] <@mahlzeit> who's (tm) is that?
[16:27:04] <[Beta]XP> evil dictators.
[16:28:02] <Methe> lol
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[16:31:26] <@JBurton> great, I got a call
[16:32:27] <w-ber> another bored person? :)
[16:32:42] <desidaerius504> lol
[16:33:37] <@JBurton> ahah
[16:33:45] <Methe> just one trying to escape his job I feel
[16:33:58] <@JBurton> no, a guy who didn't plug-in the electric cord of his printer
[16:34:01] <@JBurton> :)
[16:34:03] <@JBurton> (really)
[16:34:20] <desidaerius504> heh
[16:34:35] <Methe> :)
[16:34:46] <@JBurton> and I also got a free coffee
[16:34:47] <@JBurton> yay
[16:34:53] <[Beta]XP> lol
[16:35:00] <@JBurton> for resolving his big issue
[16:35:08] <[Beta]XP> wahey
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[16:35:39] <@mahlzeit> coffee isn't free where you work?
[16:36:45] <Methe> I actually feel more than ridiculous fighting with this definition/declaration of this morning JBurton
[16:37:30] <@JBurton> Methe ehehe
[16:37:43] <@JBurton> mahlzeit no, I don't know any place where coffee is free
[16:38:02] <Methe> well yeah each time coffee is free peeps rush to it all day long
[16:38:04] <@mahlzeit> you have no coffee machine?
[16:38:13] * Methe doesnt drink coffee
[16:38:21] <@JBurton> yes, though you have to use the "magic key" to get the coffee
[16:38:28] <@mahlzeit> that's insane!
[16:38:29] <@JBurton> and you obviously have to put money into that key
[16:38:30] <@JBurton> ahah
[16:38:37] <joppefan> so how is haiku doing these days? how far are you guys from the first alpha of a usable OS?
[16:38:54] <Methe> joppefan: about --------->          <-------------- that far
[16:38:59] <@JBurton> lol
[16:39:16] <desidaerius504> yeah that is the question everyoen has learned not to ask, no matter how curious they are :-p
[16:39:23] <Methe> we see you learn quite fast desidaerius504 :D
[16:39:33] <[Beta]XP> joppefan: it has come on alot recently.
[16:39:38] <joppefan> :)
[16:39:46] <Methe> but input and roster and kernel are working together
[16:39:50] <kma> and the answer is that it's progressing nicly and will be released when it's done(tm)
[16:39:51] <Methe> and that's something
[16:40:00] <desidaerius504> Hey in third grade they figured out I was "gifted and talented" so it must ahve counted for something :-p
[16:40:12] <joppefan> well that is nice ..  it was well years ago i coded in beos..
[16:40:41] <kma> joppefan: same here.. I'm just a BeOS/Haiku stalker :)
[16:40:54] <desidaerius504> me three :-)
[16:41:18] <@JBurton> me four
[16:41:21] <desidaerius504> well to my credit I am currently running Beos 5.03 Pro...
[16:41:32] <Methe> my BeOS box just died on me
[16:41:33] <Methe> so
[16:41:34] <joppefan> hehe :) well there is rdesktop for beos but then i need to have 2 good machines to be able to code MFC for windows..
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[16:42:43] <@mahlzeit> eeew mfc
[16:42:49] <@mahlzeit> the horror
[16:43:01] * Methe queries JBurton
[16:43:38] * desidaerius504 continues looking for uber sweet wallpaper for his BeOS desktop
[16:44:06] <Methe> Wallpaper hunt is a nightmare. Hopefully there's office hours
[16:47:19] <joppefan> http://www.endata.se/images/Pmt.jpg
[16:47:34] <joppefan> this is how i code and chatting right now with you :)
[16:47:44] <kma> tungsten T5 :)
[16:47:50] <joppefan> jupp
[16:47:55] <kma> I got one also
[16:48:07] <joppefan> what do you think about it ?
[16:48:08] <kma> are you using bluetooth or wifi?
[16:48:12] <kma> it's nice
[16:48:13] <joppefan> both
[16:48:21] <kma> nice.. palmone wifi?
[16:48:22] <joppefan> right now bluetooth ..
[16:48:28] <joppefan> palmone wifi yes..
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[16:48:54] <kma> I think the OS needs some rework.. feels abit old.
[16:48:56] <joppefan> onboardc is going to be released to morrow  ..  a new version ..  its much more stable..
[16:49:13] <joppefan> kma:  well it works for what i do on it..
[16:49:19] <kma> yeah
[16:49:33] <kma> but I would perfer something more modern
[16:50:10] <desidaerius504> which OS are you talking about kma?
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[16:50:28] <joppefan> coding chatting  mail ,  www, and more.. yes i hope that the next palm pda i buy will be with a linux os :)
[16:51:04] <[Beta]XP> sharps pdas are fairly neat, come across them ?
[16:51:26] <kma> joppefan: or perhaps Palm OS Cobalt
[16:51:43] <desidaerius504> There has been some talk that Lycoris (the Linux distro I use on my AMD box) has a PDA OS in the works.
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[16:52:21] <@JBurton> bah, almost everything is at least half done in haiku
[16:52:33] <@JBurton> I can't find anything to start and then leave half-baked
[16:52:33] <[Beta]XP> bah?
[16:52:46] <[Beta]XP> lol.. you could start documentation.
[16:53:08] <@JBurton> I would suck at that
[16:53:13] <@JBurton> can't write proper english
[16:53:16] <joppefan> well .. we will see its quite nice to code on the palm...
[16:53:17] <@JBurton> nor document stuff
[16:53:18] <[Beta]XP> looks like you can
[16:53:26] <@JBurton> just look at my comments in the code
[16:53:46] <[Beta]XP> What might be nice, is a wiki to maintain the docs in - then anyone can add to it. would flesh it out quicker - and have multiple editors
[16:55:12] <joppefan> well wel ..have to go ... se you guys later..
[16:55:24] <[Beta]XP> later joppefan. come back soon
[16:55:25] <@JBurton> mahlzeit anyone offered to write the softsynth yet ? (note: I'm not volunteering)
[16:55:30] <@JBurton> bye joppefan
[16:55:32] 
[16:55:51] <jonaskirilla> gethostbyname, is that in libbind?
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[16:57:47] <@mahlzeit> JBurton: well, many people did :-)
[16:58:09] <@mahlzeit> but _offering_ to volunteer is easy...
[16:58:18] <@JBurton> mahlzeit eheh yeah, I know
[16:58:28] <@JBurton> mahlzeit anyone actually wrote some code ?
[16:58:30] <@mahlzeit> jerome leveque was working on one, but i haven't heard from him in a long time
[16:58:31] <@JBurton> beside you :P
[16:58:57] <@JBurton> didn't DW said he could write one in one of the latest meetings ?
[16:59:06] <@JBurton> or I imagined it ?
[16:59:10] <@mahlzeit> he was interested in it
[16:59:25] <@mahlzeit> but i would rather have him work on the app_server ;-)
[16:59:33] <@JBurton> :))
[17:00:00] <@mahlzeit> it>	i was thinking of doing something with timidity, since it already works on beos
[17:00:54] <@JBurton> oic
[17:01:17] <@JBurton> did be, inc. roll its own ?
[17:01:25] <@mahlzeit> no, they bought one
[17:01:33] <@mahlzeit> at least r5 has the beatnik synth
[17:01:36] <@JBurton> ah
[17:01:43] <@JBurton> well let's buy one then
[17:01:47] <@mahlzeit> libbae.so
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[17:01:52] <@JBurton> we'll keep the money from your salary
[17:01:55] <@JBurton> mahlzeit
[17:02:00] <@mahlzeit> my salary == 0 euro :-)
[17:02:07] <@JBurton> I know, that's why I said that :P
[17:04:35] <@mahlzeit> brb
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[17:06:21] <@JBurton> I'll brb too
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[17:10:38] <@JBurton> re
[17:14:53] <[Beta]XP> wonder if nathan will make an api for his power_deamon, so then we could just plonk extra monitors onto it
[17:21:00] <CIA-3> axeld * current/ReadMe: Almost updated the ReadMe file...
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[17:23:00] <@JBurton> sure I think so
[17:25:28] <[Beta]XP> JBurton: could you explain the ordering of ATTR_INFO in http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/open-beos/current/src/data/beos_mime/audio.super?rev=1.1&view=markup ?
[17:25:56] <[Beta]XP> and why its overloaded.
[17:25:57] <[Beta]XP> "attr:alignment" = 1,
[17:25:57] <[Beta]XP> "attr:alignment" = 1,
[17:26:03] <[Beta]XP> ? *confuses me
[17:26:53] <TuneTracker> http://www.xanga.com/lebuzz  (the new site for my blog)
[17:28:14] <JBurton> I don't have idea, [Beta]XP :P
[17:28:16] <CIA-3> jackburton * current/src/kits/app/Application.cpp: Implemented handler for B_APP_ACTIVATED and (but not really) for _SHOW_DRAG_HANDLES_
[17:28:26] <@JBurton> I don't think I ever used attributes actually (in my development)
[17:28:30] <@JBurton> anyway, have to go now
[17:28:31] <@JBurton> bye all
[17:28:37] <@geist> later
[17:29:07] <[Beta]XP> okie, ltr JB
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[17:29:19] * [Beta]XP goes to learn more
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[17:32:13] <[Beta]XP> ooh, I worked it out.
[17:32:16] <[Beta]XP> special me.
[17:32:47] <[Beta]XP> weird though, you'd have thought grouping related properties together would make it easier to edit.
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[19:08:02] <MikeW> tycomsystems still down I see
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[20:36:10] <joppefan> hello
[20:36:29] <@mahlzeit> hey
[20:36:52] <joppefan> how is the USB2 support going for beos?
[20:39:15] <@mahlzeit> here's nielx's usb blog: http://nielx.blogspot.com/
[20:42:50] <Dr_Evil|AW> mahlzeit I don't think this usb stack does much that is usb specific so far
[20:44:09] <joppefan> okey, so the usb2 stack isnt ready for using?
[20:46:54] <joppefan> syllable seems to have a usb2 stack right?
[20:52:05] <@Korli> joppefan you mean linux usb ? :)
[20:52:49] <joppefan> :).. well i ready quick on there web page and saw ehci driver.. :)
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[21:02:16] <joppefan> back to coding..
[21:02:18] <joppefan> see you later..
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[21:22:08] <tic> argh, fucking morons at Bahn.de
[21:22:42] <[Beta]XP> ?
[21:24:16] <CIA-3> adioanca * current/src/servers/app/server/ (14 files): New window manager comming in.
[21:24:21] 
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[21:27:10] * AnEvilYak has flashbacks to the MSN Driving Directions thing on theregister
[21:27:34] <tic> damnit. :(
[21:28:07] <Assimil8or> sbb.ch rulez ;)
[21:28:38] <tic> oh, fine, now Mozilla has hanged and can't be killed without an OS crash.
[21:28:42] <tic> everything's fucking working againsnt me.
[21:29:01] <Assimil8or> tic: will you be at the BeGeistert?
[21:29:17] <tic> Assimil8or, hopefully, if I'll be able to afford the fucking bus ticket.
[21:29:20] <tic> argh
[21:29:24] <tic> brb, KDL.
[21:29:29] <Assimil8or> how can it not be killed without an OS crash? this never happened to me
[21:30:02] <tic> you're lucky
[21:30:05] <tic> vision's the only app still responding.
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[21:35:38] 
[21:36:00] * tic angry
[21:36:30] <tic> Die Bahn, Die!
[21:38:58] <tic> wonder what their travel plan looks like...
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[21:54:04] <swer> does svn+ssh work on BeOS?
[21:55:10] <@Korli> some say so
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[21:57:05] <swer> I have a friend on AIM right now who's trying and failing :(
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[22:00:19] <Dr_Evil|AW> tic well, that bus line is long
[22:00:43] <tic> Dr_Evil|AW, 2h35m apparently.  any idea where to check how much it is?
[22:01:20] <Dr_Evil|AW> http://www.bahn.de/-S:PtVOR9:dvbTuNNNnjcuptNNNSZM/pv/view/int_guest/subhome/international_guests.shtml
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[22:02:11] <tic> Dr_Evil|AW, yeah, but I've already bought the train tickets. and there doesn't seem to be any info on the busses.
[22:02:37] <Dr_Evil|AW> tic from "flughafen hahn terminal" to "duesseldorf hbf"
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[22:03:23] <tic> Dr_Evil|AW, that's exactly what I did.  If you look at the details for the route 20:15 on April 1st, 2005, you'll see that Bus 610 is listed within that route, but when you buy the trip from Hahn to Dusseldorf, you only get the train ticket. :/
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[22:07:03] <tic> Dr_Evil|AW so, any idea?
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[22:09:03] <Dr_Evil|AW> tic http://www.vrminfo.de/vrm/english/index.html
[22:09:10] <Dr_Evil|AW> but it doesn't list the price
[22:09:13] <swer> flying in to begeistert? :)
[22:09:21] <tic> ah, okay. Thanks anyway
[22:09:35] 
[22:09:46] <tic> yap
[22:10:20] <Dr_Evil|AW> tic can't you get a flight to Duesseldorf airport?
[22:11:15] 
[22:12:23] <Dr_Evil|AW> tic http://www.vrminfo.de/vrm/english/pdf/single-tickets.pdf
[22:12:43] <Dr_Evil|AW> I think it can't be more expensive than 12 EUR, because thats the max. but I may be wrong
[22:13:01] <swer> bahn.de is showing me a few price quotes - 23, 32, and 68 euros
[22:13:06] <tic> eek.  okay, but ~15E or such isn't _that_ bad, if it's not worse than that.
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[22:13:36] 
[22:13:48] <tic> swer, it's 15E, but that's only the train ticket.
[22:13:49] <swer> they don't list the price all the time
[22:13:54] <tic> swer, no indeed.
[22:13:56] <@voidref> swer!
[22:13:58] <swer> and you need to take a bus anyway
[22:14:03] <tic> swer, obviously.
[22:14:07] <swer> voidref:
[22:14:20] <swer> voidref: I'll pm you in a sec
[22:14:22] <tic> Dr_Evil|AW, do you think you could try to find some info on if it's possible to buy the ticket directly on the bus?
[22:14:33] <tic> Who is this mysterious swer? :)
[22:14:35] <swer> bus ~15 euros is correct, yes
[22:14:35] <@voidref> idref>	i should be at BeGeistert this year =D
[22:14:43] <swer> cool!
[22:14:46] * tic jumps up & down
[22:14:59] <Dr_Evil|AW> swer where do you get that from?
[22:15:01] <@voidref> swer is an IRL friend of mine
[22:15:04] 
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[22:15:07] <tic> voidref, nifty.
[22:15:09] <@voidref> we like to call him "German Tourist"
[22:15:13] <tic> heh
[22:15:17] <swer> Dr_Evil: that was roughly what i paid last time ;)
[22:15:28] <tic> swer, can you buy the bus ticket directly on the bus?
[22:15:34] <swer> yes
[22:16:04] <swer> the bahn won't list prices for the bus, so that's why they show nothing when you select hahn airport on bahn.de
[22:16:09] <tic> Mhm.
[22:16:25] <tic> swer, coolness.  Me and m_eiman will only bring backpacks; think there'll be any problems of getting place on the bus?  Our plane arrives 19:25, and bus 610 leaves 20:15
[22:16:34] <swer> but, if you look from frankfurt hbf, which is where the bus (or at least one of them) takes you to, that shoudl work
[22:16:48] <Dr_Evil> http://www.vrminfo.de/vrm/english/pdf/single-tickets.pdf should be correct for the bus price, execept I don't know how many honeywebs it is
[22:17:09] <tic> Dr_Evil, okay, but then it should be absolute max 12E
[22:17:20] <tic> Dr_Evil, ... if that's the correct table for Bus 610?
[22:17:24] <swer> tlc don't think so. you may want to try calling them first, or call the airport (if they even have a phone...???)
[22:17:37] <swer> are you tied to the Hahn airport?
[22:17:37] <tic> swer, :)  ryanair, doubt it. ;)
[22:17:41] <tic> swer, yup
[22:17:46] 
[22:17:58] 
[22:18:10] 
[22:18:15] <swer> hm :/
[22:18:35] <tic> swer, I'd need to fly/bus to Stockholm, which takes 2h by flight and 7 hours by bus, and would cost a lot more than 12E :P
[22:18:59] 
[22:19:07] <tic> Thanks a lot guys for the help, Dr_Evil and swer!
[22:19:08] <swer> I see, yes
[22:19:13] <swer> np
[22:19:22] <tic> will be nice to see you all there
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[22:19:59] <swer> sounds like I have to attend my first begeistert then :)
[22:21:24] <tic> oh, you aren't coming?
[22:21:41] <tic> mm, :wumpscut:
[22:21:50] <tic> like honey to my ears.
[22:22:16] <swer> I've never been at begeistert before
[22:22:24] <tic> I told Yak I was on my way to take a shower, now I feel bad for not having done so.  On the other hand, I'm relieved about the bus issue now.
[22:22:28] <tic> are you a beos user?
[22:22:32] <swer> but now I live only about ~2 hours away
[22:22:42] <swer> yes...I have some software on bebits
[22:22:45] <tic> ohh! You should _definitely_ come.
[22:22:52] <tic> nice! which ones?
[22:23:17] <swer> FourWays, ess1688 driver and USB MIDI driver
[22:23:19] <tic> o/~ two sounds are better than one, do the techno man! o/~
[22:23:49] <tic> I'd need an ESS Maestro2e driver for my Armada M700, could you do that for me? ;)  Or perhaps fix my USB Audio driver? :)
[22:24:32] <tic> Hm, so you're the competition then.. I'm the author of the app formerly known as pWarp; ticWorkspaceGadget  :)
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[22:24:49] <swer> ah :)
[22:24:57] <tic> BGA!
[22:25:05] <@BGA> tic!
[22:25:06] <tic> BGA, we were just discussing BG. You are coming, right? :)
[22:25:11] <swer> your USB audio driver could be interesting...once we have a 100% working USB stack
[22:25:15] <@BGA> Yep. Looks like.
[22:25:22] <tic> BGA, awesome!
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[22:26:03] <tic> swer, it's actually derived off the raw usb audio driver Be wrote for R5.  I basically just tucked on the old-style (R3) sound API to it. It's in the Haiku repository, if you want to have a look at it.
[22:26:08] <swer> tlc, but if you are willing ot share your USB audio source code, I'd be interested
[22:26:12] <swer> ah, OK
[22:26:20] <tic> needs isoch transfer modes to work, obviously.
[22:26:27] <tic> and it'd be really nice if you could get it properly working.
[22:26:29] <swer> I have a USB sound card, I'll see what it does
[22:26:40] <tic> neat!
[22:26:51] <swer> can't promise anything...I didn't touch BeOS for almost two years, came back recently
[22:26:51] <tic> keep me posted, would you? mail at mikael dot jansson dot be, or http://mikael.jansson.be
[22:26:54] <tic> ahh
[22:27:15] <tic> (I suspect it's just my USB audio card that's just lacking the volume feature unit, 'cause I can't do anything else than setting the volume.)
[22:27:52] <swer> what audio card do you have?
[22:27:59] <tic> MacAlly iVoice
[22:28:01] <tic> Hrm.. I wish BeOS would properly support suspend and the ess maestro2e on this laptop; it's still not too bad, but the battery is dead, and there's no point in buying a new one.
[22:28:41] <swer> is that 100% compliant? I found that a lot of USB gear doesn't follow the standards :(
[22:28:56] <tic> what do you mean by compliant?
[22:28:57] <swer> luckily, my audiotrak maya ex seemst to be compliant :)
[22:29:05] <swer> following the USB audio standard
[22:29:17] <tic> not really, had to hard-code the vendor/product id :)
[22:29:20] <tic> (I think...)
[22:29:37] <swer> do you have a Mac? (as you buy Macally gear)
[22:30:05] <tic> nope, I got it from Irfon-Kim Ahmad, if you remember him.
[22:30:10] <tic> (or even heard of him)
[22:31:18] <tic> Good, will be nice to see you there.
[22:31:19] <swer> hm...sounds familiar
[22:31:25] <tic> Epiphyte
[22:31:29] <swer> ok
[22:31:30] <tic> or Maize
[22:31:33] <tic> remember?
[22:31:47] <swer> not really...I'm pretty much out of the loop right now
[22:31:55] <swer> finding my way back to BeOS ;)
[22:32:05] <Dr_Evil> Epiphyte? isn't that from Cryptonomicon
[22:32:25] <tic> might be.  He used to hang on #beosghetto
[22:32:29] <Dr_Evil> The Cryptonomicon novel even mentions BeOS
[22:32:30] <swer> in general, USB audio cards that work out of the box with OS X are pretty much standard compliant
[22:32:32] <tic> or maybe you guys weren't on that channel?
[22:32:36] <tic> Dr_Evil, yeah, I read it on screen. :)
[22:32:48] <swer> wasn't much on IRC until recently
[22:32:49] <tic> swer, coolio.  Seems I can't change the volume on mine, though.
[22:32:54] <tic> so it's set extremely low.
[22:32:58] <swer> ok
[22:33:06] <swer> I'll check out the driver and have a loook
[22:33:10] <tic> swer, okay, 'cause this was back in 2000 or so
[22:33:12] <tic> swer, great!
[22:33:14] <swer> do you know if it works with Zeta?
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[22:33:26] <swer> R5 doesn't run on my computer
[22:33:27] <tic> swer, it doesn't :/
[22:33:29] <tic> oh
[22:33:34] <tic> But! You might be able to port it.
[22:33:44] <swer> I'll have a look
[22:33:47] <tic> The problem with Zeta is that its USB stack doesn't support isoch transfer modes
[22:34:00] <tic> but the ohci (or is it uhci? can never remember...) has isoch transfer implemented
[22:34:29] <swer> i don't think VirtualPC exposes USB devices
[22:34:35] <tic> probably not.
[22:34:41] <swer> I can run R5 in VPC on Windows
[22:34:42] <tic> do you run Zeta from within VirtualPC?
[22:34:56] <swer> no, Zeta is on it's own partition
[22:35:06] <tic> ah
[22:35:22] <tic> Crap, now I'm stuck on Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music.
[22:35:28] <tic> There's just too much music in it! :)
[22:35:31] <swer> hehe :)
[22:35:35] <swer> fun to listen to!
[22:35:42] <tic> definitely
[22:35:49] <tic> first time I listen to the updated one.
[22:35:58] <swer> wer>	we need more music software for BeOS :)
[22:36:06] <swer> anyone up for porting pd?
[22:36:13] <tic> what's pd?
[22:36:33] <swer> "pure data" - similar to Max/MSP
[22:36:50] <swer> you might want to call it a "music applicaiton construction kit"
[22:37:03] <swer> you have a bunch of nodes that you can build your own synth/sequencer/whatever from
[22:37:19] <tic> ah.  hrm, the closest I've been to music is FT II
[22:37:44] <swer> pd is certainly not for the faint-hearted ;)
[22:38:33] <swer> it's the RenderMan of audio software...
[22:43:46] <tic> aww.
[22:44:02] * tic feels all nostalgic while listening to the "Oldskool Rave Hardcare" genre
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[22:44:18] <tic> n-trance -- set you free. prodigy -- one love.
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[22:59:56] <tic> bwahah, JPop powah. :)
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[23:09:16] <DaaT> whatchu ranting about, foo?
[23:09:19] <DaaT> :=
[23:13:46] <tic> http://www.ishkur.com damnit!
[23:13:55] <tic> check out the guide to electronic music.
[23:14:06] <tic> but now I have to get some sleep, I'm deadly tired!
[23:15:51] <DaaT> then you should
[23:16:01] <tic> so I am
[23:16:31] <DaaT> :)
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[23:36:07] <@JBurton> hi all
[23:37:24] <desidaerius504> hi
[23:39:19] <nathanw> hi JBurton
[23:40:36] <@JBurton> hi nathanw
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