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[03:15:08] <MYOB> anyone here a CVS guru?
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[03:26:31] <MYOB> never mind, found what I needed
[03:51:37] <MYOB> anyone seen MikeW recently?
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[04:11:12] <@AndrewBachmann> wb voidref
[04:11:18] <@voidref> hi
[04:11:20] <@voidref> how are things
[04:11:28] <@voidref> so you went and bought that computer, eh?
[04:11:42] <@AndrewBachmann> yeah, well it was such a good deal and available now
[04:11:58] <@AndrewBachmann> also it's for my girfriend and so it's okay that it's not as powered as I would like it
[04:12:32] <@voidref> heh, well, if there's no accelerant for your video, it's not going to be too fun under Zeta/BeOS
[04:12:56] <@AndrewBachmann> hmann>	hm I wonder how vesa + agp driver would work
[04:13:08] <@voidref> idref>	i got this new system and there was a problem with teh radeon driver recognising it correctly for a while
[04:13:25] <@voidref> it's soooo much better with accel
[04:13:26] <MYOB> AndrewBachmann I'm using that on my Vaio ATM. Feels a bit faster than normal VESA
[04:13:36] <@AndrewBachmann> yeah I couldn't get the radeon driver working on the sony vaio v260
[04:13:37] <@voidref> it's like the whole system is a lot faster.
[04:13:39] <@AndrewBachmann> (a260?)
[04:13:40] <MYOB> *using it when not testing my own driver
[04:13:51] <@voidref> yea, a260
[04:13:53] <@AndrewBachmann> oh yeah I remember when the geforce driver got accel
[04:14:00] <@voidref> idref>	i got an A270
[04:14:09] <@voidref> had to make some changes to the driver to get it working
[04:14:27] <@AndrewBachmann> oops, sony s260
[04:14:48] <@voidref> is that the wedge shaped one?
[04:15:02] <@AndrewBachmann> wedge?  I don't think so....
[04:15:21] <@voidref> you ended up with a gateway?
[04:15:49] <MYOB> I've got an R600HMP with the crappy Intel i830GM, so I'm having to write my own driver to get above 8 bit colour
[04:16:31] <@voidref> bbiab, testing something
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[04:17:14] <MYOB> AndrewBachmann I presume you're too mature to do the Cow Massacre that I always did any time I got a Gateway
[04:17:22] <MYOB> rip the box to shreds with a stanley knife :-)
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[04:26:48] <@AndrewBachmann> yeah ended up with a gateway 3520gz, a very nice machine and the price was right $1099
[04:29:09] <@voidref> cool
[04:29:23] <@voidref> that's probably about 1000 less than the sony for the same features, eh?
[04:29:32] <@AndrewBachmann> well maybe 800-900
[04:30:24] <@voidref> have you noticed that moore's law seems to be slowing down?
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[04:30:36] <@voidref> it's no longer only 18 months to double processor speed
[04:30:46] <@AndrewBachmann> yeah I heard that
[04:31:00] <@AndrewBachmann> I noticed the effect when I went shopping for a laptop
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[04:31:17] <@AndrewBachmann> when I first looked I wouldn't consider anything less than $2000 worth buying
[04:31:28] <@AndrewBachmann> but now they are all cheaper
[04:31:46] <@AndrewBachmann> instead of getting faster at the same price, they are not getting faster at a cheaper cost
[04:31:53] <@voidref> heh
[04:32:23] <@voidref> and you can't even get them as fast as you think they should go.
[04:32:43] <@voidref> idref>	i guess it's good from the standpoint that your computer becomes obsolete less quickly!
[04:33:15] <@AndrewBachmann> I can hardly believe they tried to sell me a 3 year warranty for $300
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[04:33:40] <@AndrewBachmann> considering it comes with a 1 year manufacturer's warranty anyway
[04:33:51] <MYOB> most machines here come with a 3 year warranty by defauly
[04:33:59] <@voidref> they make a lot of money on warranties
[04:34:22] <@voidref> idref>	i can't actually imagine having a computer for 3 years.
[04:34:47] <@AndrewBachmann> yeah no kidding
[04:35:03] <MYOB> voidref I easily can :-) for ages my only decently sped laptop was rapidly approaching 4 years old
[04:35:11] <@AndrewBachmann> I did buy a debt forgiveness plan for $10
[04:35:29] <MYOB> it cost a *huge* amount of money when new, so thats why it was still usable 4 years later
[04:35:35] <@AndrewBachmann> if the laptop gets stolen, or destroyed accidently in the 1 year while I make payments (interest free) then they cancel all the remaining debt
[04:35:43] <@voidref> AndrewBachmann, nice
[04:35:55] <@voidref> well, i guess my problem is that the computer has been my work too;
[04:35:56] <@voidref> tool
[04:36:02] <@voidref> so I am pretty demanding of it.
[04:36:09] <MYOB> voidref so was mine
[04:36:15] <@voidref> I swear, the keyboards are always the first thing to go.
[04:36:18] <MYOB> it bore battlescars, let me tell you
[04:36:19] <@voidref> but the screens fade too.
[04:36:43] <@voidref> MYOB, was it an IBM or somethign?
[04:36:48] <MYOB> no letters on the keyboard, touchpad buttons needed replacing twice, touchpad needed one replacement, one of three screen hinges failed
[04:36:49] <@voidref> I hear those are pretty reliable
[04:36:53] <MYOB> voidref HP Omnibook
[04:37:11] <MYOB> I've got a working 1997 IBM but it was never heavily used
[04:37:11] <@voidref> hmm, my wife has an HP, I guess we'll see how that holds up.
[04:37:20] <@voidref> it's almost a year old now, seems pretty good still
[04:37:33] <MYOB> not even when new did I use the IBM much
[04:38:25] <@voidref> MYOB, why did the computer cost that much, I don't remember HPs being really pricey
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[04:39:09] <MYOB> voidref it was a beast power wise - I can't remember exactly when I bought it, early 2000 or so
[04:39:49] <MYOB> 733Mhz Pentium III (fastest at the time), 384MB RAM, 10GB HDD, a 3D card (ATi Rage Mobility 16MB AGP), ESS sound accelerator, DVD/CD-R drive, 15 inch screen
[04:40:31] <@voidref> wow, 16 meg card in a notebook is quite the fancy thing in those days
[04:40:44] <MYOB> and a 10/100 NIC and modem combo PCMCIA card, printer and webcam chucked in to make it even more expensive
[04:41:01] <MYOB> 16MB of real RAM for the gfx at that, no shared RAM
[04:41:28] <MYOB> all this for over $4,000
[04:41:32] <MYOB> and it didn't come with a case
[04:42:26] 
[04:43:15] <MYOB> it was also very, very light for its size and power, and had a big mAH'ed Li-ion battery
[04:43:17] <@voidref> idref>	i bought a 600hz sony z505 in 99, 2500$ 4meg neomagic video, 256 megs ram
[04:43:45] <MYOB> I've still got it but its in very, very bad condition. Doesn't see the HDD 9 times out of ten boots
[04:44:19] <@voidref> my sister is using it now, but the keyboard needs replacing
[04:44:44] <@voidref> hehe, the sony has been through 3 hdd. and man they are a pain to change on that computer
[04:44:59] <@voidref> it seems that sony in general does not want you to change out anything inside.
[04:45:05] <MYOB> my Vaio has a bitch of a HDD to replace too
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[04:46:36] <brennanOS> hi all
[04:46:52] <MYOB> under the wrist wrest, caddied but the caddie is screwed to the motherboard, uses a flimsy ribbon cable to the board
[04:46:52] <MYOB> Sony really support their laptops *BADLY*
[04:46:52] <MYOB> mines never had a BIOS update in two years
[04:46:52] <MYOB> despite people I know with similar hardware having had both a system BIOS and a wireless card firmware update
[04:46:59] <@voidref> what does your nick mean?
[04:47:44] <brennanOS> brb
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[04:51:22] <@voidref> MYOB, what are you using now?
[04:52:02] <MYOB> I've been warned by other Vaio users that if it goes in for a warranty repair, it'll come back in the form of a cheque - no parts for it available.
[04:52:02] <MYOB> voidref take a random guess :-)
[04:52:02] <MYOB> I can't remember when I started using it, but it was my IRIX login on my Indy, and that was 1996 at the latest....
[04:52:08] <MYOB> I can remember my IRIX password as well, weirdly
[04:52:14] <MYOB> root password was 'bluemonday', the myob password was 'truefaith'
[04:52:16] <MYOB> or bluemond and truefait and IRIX actually stored them as
[04:52:26] <MYOB> I miss that box. I remember it clanging to a halt if I tried to browse the web and play an MP3 at the same time...
[04:52:29] <MYOB> voidref BeOS on my Intel boxen, OSX and/or YDL4 on PowerPC
[04:52:33] <MYOB> the Indy and an UltraSPARC sit rotting away in my attic unused
[04:53:05] <MYOB> the Ultra 10 has enough power to potentially have Haiku ported to it if I ever go completely insane
[04:53:11] <@voidref> what computer are you usingfor beos?
[04:53:18] <@voidref> I was asking brennanOS what his nick meant.
[04:53:29] <@voidref> but there was a bunch of lag
[04:53:34] <MYOB> an 10 03:53:34 <MYOB>	a self built desktop and a Sony Vaio R600
[04:53:54] <@voidref> oh, right, what's an r600? recent or older sony?
[04:53:55] <MYOB> voidref ahh, sorry. I assumed you meant me as I'm always being asked and it gets a bit annoying sometimes :-)
[04:54:15] <MYOB> middle aged - 1.2Ghz Pentium III
[04:54:18] <@voidref> umm, MYOB probably stands for Mind Your Own Buisness, right?
[04:54:36] <MYOB> voidref it does, yes
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[04:54:52] <@voidref> I had a dell 8100 1.2ghz p3, man it sucked.
[04:55:10] <MYOB> the Dell 8100 was huge though, wasn't it?
[04:55:14] <@voidref> yep
[04:55:28] <MYOB> this is a 12" unidentified grey metal laptop
[04:55:29] <@voidref> enormous flimsy plastic brick
[04:55:37] <@voidref> but I got it because it did 1600x1200
[04:55:41] <@voidref> for cheap
[04:55:50] <MYOB> it needs two more drivers to make it perfect for BeOS - Intel graphics and Sony PIC
[04:55:55] <MYOB> for brightness and volume control
[04:56:00] <@voidref> I should have spent the extra money on the Sony, I"m sure.
[04:56:32] <MYOB> I've got half a gig of RAM and an 80GB 5400RPM ATA-100 disk in it, so it flies for a laptop
[04:56:47] <@voidref> nice, I got a gig in this laptop. =)
[04:57:04] <MYOB> it only takes half a gig, but the one I'm on ATM takes 1.25GB
[04:57:25] <@voidref> not that I have ever been able to make the system use more than about 400 megs
[04:57:25] <MYOB> my work laptop, for presentations and the like - an iBook G4
[04:57:41] <@voidref> unless of course something goes out of control
[04:57:59] <@voidref> sony pic?
[04:58:28] <MYOB> Sony Programmable Interupt Controller
[04:58:38] <@voidref> hmm
[04:58:45] <MYOB> customised microcode on some generic Intel IC, controls Sony's properitary hardware
[04:59:04] <MYOB> volume, brightness controls; bluetooth power switch; camera; jogdial, etc on some achines
[04:59:18] <@voidref> I remember jason was working on this driver called 'spic' for the jog dial...
[04:59:20] <MYOB> the newer the machine the less the sonypic does, oddly enough
[04:59:26] <MYOB> Jason?
[04:59:34] <MYOB> spic, same driver
[04:59:41] <@voidref> jason parks
[04:59:47] <@voidref> worked with me at be
[04:59:59] <MYOB> however it may be possible on some machines to ge the jogdial to work by recompiling the mouse drivers to support a 5th mouse button, which is where the wheel is attached
[05:00:07] <MYOB> voidref ah
[05:00:15] <MYOB> did you work with Chris Tate at all?
[05:00:19] <@voidref> idref>	i might be able to dig up the code.
[05:00:21] <@voidref> yep
[05:00:32] <@voidref> idref>	i was on ctate's team
[05:00:43] <MYOB> well unless he reverse engineered it himself, it was a GPL'ed driver on Linux....
[05:00:56] <MYOB> I'm now continuing some of the work ctate did outside Be - the dnetc
[05:00:58] <@voidref> or he got the spec from Sony under NDA
[05:01:21] <MYOB> voidref thats also possible considering Be was commercial.
[05:01:23] <@voidref> or just got it from them, we worked with sony for quite a while on the netron nightmare.
[05:01:37] <MYOB> companies get specbooks, oss projects don't\
[05:02:15] <MYOB> which is why 4Front OpenSound supports sound cards that oss projects will never support.
[05:02:57] <MYOB> and that commercial X11 server has graphics drivers others don't
[05:03:28] <MYOB> I used to have a licence for both of those as I had hardware that needed the closed Linux drivers
[05:03:31] <@voidref> yes, that seems pretty obvious
[05:03:53] <@voidref> so, did you port the spic driver to beos?
[05:03:57] <MYOB> the HP and the Vaio, oddly enough - sound and video respectively
[05:04:02] <@voidref> (from leenooks)
[05:04:38] <MYOB> voidref I'm working on it ATM. Would have it done if I could figure out why BeOS can't even *see* the spic chip on the PCI bus when Linux can...
[05:05:07] <slaad> Netron nightmare, voidref?
[05:05:20] <MYOB> I gave up when I hit that, will try again when I've got more time and can grab someone with PCI knowledge to talk to
[05:05:26] <@voidref> MYOB, is it the thing in Devices under System->PIC ?
[05:06:41] <MYOB> voidref no, its not. It doesn't appear to be anywhere, thats the problem
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[05:07:12] <MYOB> first guess was "bugger, this machine has a different chip, doesn't it", so I installed Debian and checked. and it doesn't
[05:08:46] <MYOB> something tells me this kind of stuff will be a lot easier in a year or so when we've got PCI managers that we can poke around in the source of to find potential problems
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[05:11:31] <brennan> anybody happen to know why my machine wont let me log in via ssh?  It responds, but wont accept the password
[05:11:33] <brennan> weird
[05:11:41] <brennan> and annoying
[05:11:56] <MYOB> quickest guess is that the password is wrong?
[05:12:12] <brennan> its not
[05:12:13] <MYOB> oh, before anyone bothers, the passwords I said I used to use I haven't used in *years* :-)
[05:13:05] <MYOB> is the sshd running with the right permissions
[05:13:33] <@voidref> MYOB, trying to send you a file.
[05:13:42] <@voidref> can you accept dcc?
[05:13:55] <@voidref> idref>	i don't know if it will help you at all
[05:14:01] <@voidref> it's really basic code.
[05:15:57] <brennan> MYOB: not sure about that... ill look
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[11:32:12] <JBurton> hi
[11:32:25] <JBurton> all
[11:33:22] <Konrad> Hi JBurton
[11:33:55] <JBurton> hey Konrad
[11:34:08] <Konrad> Waz up!? JBurton
[11:34:23] <JBurton> nothing interesting, really
[11:34:32] <JBurton> should find the time to finish BMenu related classes
[11:34:53] <Konrad> Whats left todo?
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[11:36:13] <JBurton> an 10 10:36:13 <JBurton>	a lot :P
[11:36:25] <JBurton> submenus don't work, sticky mode don't work
[11:36:38] <JBurton> and there are a lot of stuff to test
[11:36:47] <Konrad> Ok
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[12:08:55] <ahwayakchih> hih>	hi everyone
[12:09:21] <JBurton> hey ahwayakchih
[12:09:29] <ahwayakchih> hih>	hi JBurton
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[12:50:48] <ahwayakchih> ehh... how i love firefox/mozilla locking up my BeOS ;[
[12:54:13] <TuneTracker> ahwayakchih Dude!
[12:54:25] <ahwayakchih> hih>	hi TuneTracker :)
[12:54:29] <TuneTracker> How's it going?
[12:55:08] <ahwayakchih> ok (though i wasted weekend on one stupid thing in program :(, and for You?
[12:55:30] <TuneTracker> Good, though too early in the morning...I should be sleeping.
[12:55:32] <TuneTracker> :-)
[12:56:21] <ahwayakchih> :)
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[13:10:36] <@Korli> hi JBurton
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[13:24:35] <Fanskapet> http://www.communities.com/images/photos/devil_hunter/Picture8.jpg
[13:24:38] <Fanskapet> the killer of JFK ?
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[14:03:07] <fyysik> hi
[14:03:14] <fyysik> plug: http://bebits.com/bob/18219/mozilla-i586-pc-beos-netserver-O3-bthreads-20050110-22.tar.gz
[14:05:58] <ahwayakchih> hih>	hi fyysik, i've read Your post o mozilla blog :) though i didn't know what exactly it was, i'm kinda happy i guessed right direction (own linking command :)
[14:08:16] <fyysik> yeah, seems lazy assumption in linkscript. and R5 elfloader don't handle apps created with reordering
[14:08:33] <ahwayakchih> yep
[14:09:01] <fyysik> so at least managed to build that very slick version also for netserver
[14:09:16] <ahwayakchih> that's why i forst patched binutils the way they doesn't allow reordering, but Oliverfound different smaller patch
[14:09:28] <ahwayakchih> forst=first
[14:09:33] <fyysik> and no need to swicth now compilers under netserver, when swithcing between VLC and Mozilla development
[14:09:48] <ahwayakchih> :)
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[14:11:51] <JBurton> what's reordering ? :P
[14:12:14] <ahwayakchih> it's a way elf sections are put
[14:12:51] <JBurton> ah, a compiler/linker thing, then
[14:12:59] <JBurton> and it was mozilla's or gcc's fault ?
[14:13:08] <ahwayakchih> yep, linker thing
[14:13:22] <ahwayakchih> yes, mozilla tried to build own linker command
[14:13:54] <ahwayakchih> similar problem is with libtool - it tries to build own command, and that's why usually You couldn't build shared library by default
[14:14:03] <ahwayakchih> couldn't = can't
[14:14:06] <ahwayakchih> when porting libs
[14:14:16] <JBurton> bah
[14:14:21] <JBurton> stupid tools
[14:14:54] <ahwayakchih> yep, they should use "g++" or "gcc" but nooo... they have to look smarter than they are.. ;]
[14:14:57] <JBurton> autoshit is the main reason why I don't port more apps
[14:15:40] <JBurton> every time I try to, some of these tools complains it can't find some stupid m4 macro
[14:15:45] <JBurton> (which I obviously have)
[14:15:54] <ahwayakchih> heh :)
[14:17:20] <ahwayakchih> they're hell, too bad they're soo popular... it's kinda like with windows ;]
[14:17:54] <JBurton> yeah :)
[14:18:11] <TuneTracker> What is AC3 and is it different than MP4 ?
[14:18:22] <JBurton> well, I guess they're so popular also because that way "gurus" have a reason to exist
[14:18:28] <JBurton> I mean, they would lose their work
[14:18:36] <JBurton> if autoshit wouldn't be used anymore
[14:19:06] <ahwayakchih> TuneTracker AC3 is format of music/sound encoding
[14:19:27] <ahwayakchih> JBurton hehe, yeah :)
[14:19:42] <m1t0s1s> ac3 is used in theaters and now in dvd's for multichannel
[14:20:15] <TuneTracker> ah ok
[14:20:16] <ahwayakchih> m1t0s1s yeah, and on DivX .avi files :)
[14:20:42] <ahwayakchih> TuneTracker i'm not sure what MP4 can be, i guess it's "shortcut" from mpeg4 or something like that
[14:20:43] * TuneTracker wonders if we'll ever be able to get an mp4 decoder for BeOS
[14:21:13] <m1t0s1s> you can try compiling faad
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[14:21:16] <TuneTracker> ahwayakchih From the little I know about it, MP4 is the next-generation MP codec...smaller, more compact.  Some people ask if TT can use it and I have to say no.
[14:21:30] <ahwayakchih> TuneTracker ah :(
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[14:22:02] <ahwayakchih> TuneTracker if it's "closed" format, than probably we'll not see it here soon
[14:25:11] <ProctonW> format is not closed, but you have to get a licence to use it.
[14:26:07] <m1t0s1s> what about faac?
[14:30:43] <ahwayakchih> ProctonW ah, THX
[14:33:17] <TuneTracker> ProctonW Is MP4 becoming popular at all for audio, or is MP3 still the king of the hill?
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[14:43:03] <ahwayakchih> TuneTracker i think mp3 will be used for some time yet, at least by "common people". i don't know about "preffesionals"
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[14:44:54] <ahwayakchih> also "common people" probably will jump to wma or some apple's format before anything else because that's what is easiest to create on windows/mac)
[14:54:25] <ProctonW> If not the free ogg gains popularity now that some players are starting to have ogg support.
[14:54:45] <ProctonW> MP4 will probably never be a popular audio format.
[14:55:07] <JBurton> wma has more popularity than ogg
[14:55:19] <ProctonW> I didn't say otherwise.
[14:55:51] <JBurton> :)
[14:56:07] <[Beta]> isnt wma lossy?
[14:56:11] <JBurton> I mean, if something has to replace mp3, unfortunately, it's going to be wma, not ogg
[14:56:19] <JBurton> mp3 is lossy too
[14:57:08] <ProctonW> JBurton, perhaps...
[14:57:23] <[Beta]> I know. but we need a lossless audio format in these portable audio players, and on hifi equipment. bugger wma
[14:57:48] <ahwayakchih> there are lossless formats available
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[14:57:58] <ahwayakchih> though i guess they never will be so popular
[14:58:03] <JBurton> yeah
[14:58:09] <ProctonW> not for portable audio players, IIRC.
[14:58:13] <[Beta]> until they become popular, they wont gain support on players.
[14:58:19] <JBurton> even though static rams are becoming cheapers and cheapers
[14:58:19] <ahwayakchih> yep
[14:58:27] <JBurton> er
[14:58:27] <[Beta]> so.. they need encouragmenet
[14:58:30] <JBurton> static memories
[14:58:47] <JBurton> but I'm not going to waste 20 mb for one song :P
[14:59:21] <ProctonW> you can compress audio better than that, I think.
[14:59:29] <JBurton> hmmm lossless ?
[14:59:46] <[Beta]> there are some good lossless formats now
[15:00:27] <JBurton> well then maybe times are mature now
[15:00:29] <JBurton> don't know
[15:02:04] <ahwayakchih> there's http://flac.sourceforge.net/ and it seems they have some hardware vendors support
[15:03:01] <ProctonW> It does?
[15:03:24] <ProctonW> you have a flac binary at bebits too.
[15:03:57] <ahwayakchih> yep
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[15:04:58] <ahwayakchih> on flac page they mention http://www.jetaudio.com/products/iaudio/m3/ can play flac files (after firmware upgrade AFAIK)
[15:05:23] <ProctonW> hmm... the compressing ration wasn't as good as I thought it would be.
[15:07:14] <ahwayakchih> hmm that jetaudio page is horribly slow
[15:22:53] <[Beta]> monkey's audio looks good for lossless
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[15:29:26] <JBurton> looks like CIA is dead
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[15:39:51] <@AndrewBachmann> TuneTracker mp4 is not a codec, it's a container
[15:40:29] <@AndrewBachmann> it's actually a variant of quicktime's mov container
[15:40:59] <@AndrewBachmann> anyway gtg, ask mmu_man for more details
[15:41:48] <JBurton> AndrewBachmann heya
[15:43:02] <ahwayakchih> cya everyone
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[16:22:19] <@mahlzeit> hi friends
[16:22:43] <Methe> hi friend
[16:33:52] <@mahlzeit> Methe: i saw 7 samurai last night
[16:34:03] <Methe> and ?
[16:34:09] <@mahlzeit> long
[16:34:13] <Methe> :)
[16:40:05] <JBurton> hey mahlzeit, Methe
[16:41:02] <Methe> hello Don Burton
[16:42:15] <JBurton> whassup ? :P
[16:44:25] <Methe> ot a single commit in 2.5days. it didn't happen for lon g:)
[16:47:41] <JBurton> Methe from me or in general ?
[16:48:02] <Methe> general
[16:48:04] <JBurton> CIA is dead, that's all. Check the cvs mailing list :P
[16:53:42] <w-ber> is FBI still alive?
[16:55:22] <JBurton> w-ber ahahahahahahah lol
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[16:59:33] <JBurton> Methe seen ? :P
[17:04:55] <JBurton> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=7704
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[17:15:26] <@mahlzeit> today felt like spring
[17:15:37] <@mahlzeit> the weather was great
[17:15:41] <@mahlzeit> </idle conversation>
[17:19:28] <JBurton> I caught a fish this big
[17:21:45] <JBurton> once
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[17:28:15] <@mahlzeit> oh, i also saw big fish the other day
[17:28:26] <@mahlzeit> (speaking of big fish)
[17:30:06] <JBurton> anyway bye all
[17:30:07] <JBurton> leaving
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[17:35:46] <fyysik> [Plug detected]: http://bebits.com/bob/18219/mozilla-i586-pc-beos-netserver-O3-bthreads-20050110-22.tar.gz - Looks like fastest gecko browser for netserver at the moment
[17:40:48] <w-ber> http://koti.mbnet.fi/nrealm/pics/arguing2.gif
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[17:53:45] <TuneTracker> Korli
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[20:00:27] <fyysik> hi
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[20:11:14] <ChatarraBeos> hola
[20:13:11] <DaaT> ChatarraBeos, es de valencia?
[20:15:54] <NathanW> what happened to CIA?
[20:16:32] <DaaT> some problems dealing with the FBI i think
[20:17:22] <NathanW> :)
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[20:27:31] <DaaT> hey ConneX
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[21:29:21] <lechu_mys> jhi :)
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[21:29:43] <NathanW> hi lechu_mys
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[21:31:18] <tic> phew.
[21:31:28] <NathanW> ?
[21:31:59] <tic> I just installed a bad-ass heatsink on my graphics card.
[21:32:11] <tic> zalman ...-something with heat pipes and all.
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[21:32:18] <NathanW> wow
[21:32:47] <lechu_mys> eeee
[21:32:47] <lechu_mys> hihi :)
[21:32:50] <lechu_mys> tic :P
[21:32:54] <lechu_mys> :* :* :*
[21:32:57] <lechu_mys> for you ;]
[21:34:40] <Fanskapet> hmm
[21:36:20] <lechu_mys> hmm -> what hmm ? :P
[21:37:19] <Fanskapet> hmm means... hmm :)
[21:37:54] <lechu_mys> oh
[21:38:01] <lechu_mys> now is everything clear
[21:38:03] <lechu_mys> ;]
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[21:40:37] <NathanW> hi BGA
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[21:42:36] <tic> hey again guys. :)
[21:42:45] <@BGA> NathanW!
[21:42:59] <NathanW> how goes it?
[21:43:13] <@BGA> Everything is fine. How about you?
[21:43:22] <NathanW> I'm thinking of adding HTML mail support to BeMail, btw, through a StyledEdit format text translator
[21:43:47] <NathanW> I'm quite decent, really :)
[21:44:16] <@BGA> Cool!
[21:47:19] <NathanW> Yeah
[21:47:35] <NathanW> I need to figure out how to do linkifying and quote coloring, though
[21:49:07] <NathanW> from a UI point of view on the latter
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[22:01:49] <fyysik> http://beos.spb.ru/fyysik/FyysiksCorner-SweetHome.png
[22:02:03] <tic> fyysik, nice. :)
[22:02:09] <tic> fyysik, I like the cute little laptop :)
[22:02:33] <fyysik> tic - that's "Debug Terminal" now:)
[22:02:59] <tic> fyysik, yeah, I bet it's nifty for doing that kind of stuff.
[22:03:02] <fyysik> TriumphAdler Walstation 386SX25 :)
[22:03:15] <tic> haha. yay
[22:03:35] <fyysik> as this bigger modern laptop lacks serial port and is suitable only for Skype-ing
[22:03:36] <w-ber> I was going to say it looks familiar, but my laptop is HP Omnibook 486 DX4 :)
[22:03:54] <tic> fyysik, yeah. a serial terminal is great for debugging.
[22:04:13] <tic> This thing was a bitch to install: http://www.zalmanusa.com/usa/product/view.asp?idx=138&code=013
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[22:06:44] <@mmu_man> tic I really don't see the point of installing a big heatsink if you have to put a fan on anyway
[22:07:05] <@mmu_man> besides there is no point at all in buying those power-black-holes vid cards anyway
[22:07:18] <@mmu_man> not until Rudolf comes up with something at least :)
[22:07:48] <tic> mmu_man, I have no fan...
[22:08:02] <tic> mmu_man, and I'm on a dual-head system, so for me it made sens.
[22:08:04] <tic> sense.
[22:08:33] <@mmu_man> just byu 2 cheapo PCI cards :D
[22:08:35] <tic> (dual 400 mhz ramdacs, need that to drive my two 19" TFTs)
[22:08:35] <w-ber> nice audio system you have there, fyysik
[22:08:40] <tic> mmu_man, uhm, how? this is beos.
[22:08:57] <tic> mmu_man, and this ended up being cheaper than two pci cards.
[22:09:03] <@mmu_man> well you'd just need to patch the haiku input_server and registrar
[22:09:12] <tic> .... right.
[22:09:17] <tic> uhm, why input_server?
[22:09:21] <@mmu_man> tic how come, I got one for free the other day :p
[22:09:24] <tic> http://mikael.jansson.be/files/photos/2004/12/31_BeOS%20Workstation/ds.jpg
[22:09:25] <fyysik> w-ber - there are real loudspeakers in right and left bottom corners - real 100 Watt, not those marketing peak values
[22:09:31] <@mmu_man> cause it only sends to the first app_server
[22:09:52] <tic> I only run -one- app_server, silly.  But I have a 2560x1024 desktop.
[22:09:57] <tic> mmu_man, look at the picture..
[22:11:04] <w-ber> tic: funny, I know one Mikael Jansson who's a real bitch. Keeps trolling the local newsgroups :P
[22:11:27] <@voidref> haha, a big video-card sandwitch
[22:11:36] <@voidref> looks like you need lots of space too
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[22:12:03] <w-ber> tic: although he's Finnish :)
[22:12:31] <tic> ugh.  I'm Swedish! and half-polish.
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[22:12:49] <w-ber> so you told me the other day :)
[22:13:42] <@mmu_man> gimme :)
[22:14:14] <@mmu_man> tic how does fullscreen video work with that ? :)
[22:14:20] <tic> dunno, haven't tried. :P
[22:14:40] <tic> I just resize it to 1280x1024 and put it on one of the monitors.  supports overlay on both heads, so that's good.
[22:14:41] <@mmu_man> actually the correct handling of dual screen should be to have 2 BScreen available
[22:14:45] <@mmu_man> as Be designed it
[22:14:47] <tic> sure.
[22:14:55] <fyysik> anybody with fast Dual CPU machine to test stability? - http://bebits.com/bob/18219/mozilla-i586-pc-beos-netserver-O3-bthreads-20050110-22.tar.gz  (not for 5.1 i'm afraid)
[22:14:56] <tic> Be designed a lot of stuff, but never implemented it.
[22:15:00] <@mmu_man> now it would require doing things in app_server's code
[22:15:13] <tic> voidref, yeah, it's huge.  Takes up the PCI slot right next to the AGP slot.  But it's worth it.  Using only the heatsink on the FX5700LE (fan-less), I burned my fingers by touching the HS.  Now the HS feel like a boiled egg you've had in cold water for a minute or two.
[22:15:28] <@mmu_man> and I'm sure many apps don't use BScreen correctly and assume it starts at (0,0)
[22:15:51] <@mmu_man> at least lets do it right for haiku :)
[22:15:56] <tic> mmu_man, oh, I didn't even know it didn't.  You mean I need to look at BScreen().Frame().left,top?
[22:16:03] <tic> voidref, I posted a comment on the beclan survey.
[22:16:17] <@voidref> tic, heh
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[22:17:14] <tic> It's roughly 15-20 centigrades cooler with this HS.
[22:17:20] <@voidref> wow
[22:17:24] <@voidref> well then, it's worth it
[22:17:48] <@mmu_man> tic yes
[22:17:50] <tic> indeed. I got artifacts on the monitors, so it was either getting a fan or this heatsink...
[22:18:12] <@mmu_man> the B_MAIN_SCREEN one should proabbly stay at {0,0,w,h} for better compat
[22:18:45] <@mmu_man> apps tend to use BScreen:right and bottom to get the width and height of the screen :^)
[22:19:06] <w-ber> people managed without thermo-nuclear power plants on their desktops ten years ago, why not anymore? :(
[22:19:25] <@mmu_man> w-ber because they want eye-candy
[22:19:37] <@mmu_man> they don't care about efficiency
[22:19:40] <tic> w-ber, what do you mean? The power consumption of my desktop is 74W in idle mode, 120W in max.
[22:19:43] <w-ber> granted, if you have a small appartment you save on heating
[22:19:44] <@mmu_man> just something that make others wow
[22:19:45] <tic> w-ber, using double celeron 533s.
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[22:19:59] <w-ber> tic: dual P3 700 MHz here
[22:20:03] <w-ber> probably similar power levels
[22:20:22] <tic> w-ber, and the next computer will be a fanless Dothan-1.7 GHz and the passively cooled FX5700LE.  So there sure are at least _some_ people who care about efficiency...
[22:20:51] <w-ber> tic: hey, I threw away my Athlon XP 2400+ system and got this one instead in August :)
[22:21:02] <tic> w-ber, less noise?
[22:21:07] <tic> voidref, http://beclan.org/survey_comment.php?id=4
[22:21:08] <w-ber> P3's heat dissipation is around 18 watts while Athlon XP's is 65 watts
[22:21:10] <w-ber> tic: considerably
[22:21:12] <tic> *nod*
[22:21:16] <tic> that's cool..
[22:21:35] <tic> the dothan-1.7 ghz is about as fast as a p4-2.8 ghz or perhaps p4-3.0 ghz, while consuming ~28W.
[22:21:39] <w-ber> http://w-ber.ormgas.com/shots/sess_inside.jpg
[22:21:46] <w-ber> sounds interesting
[22:21:47] <tic> ormgas? :)  snake gas
[22:22:03] <tic> interesting indeed.
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[22:22:26] <w-ber> I just don't feel like giving away SMP now that I'm used to it
[22:22:32] <tic> mhm.
[22:22:45] <w-ber> there will be some interesting VIA EPIA SMP boards avaible this year
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[22:22:47] <tic> Dunno.. I'm going to.  this system isn't very stable, unfortunately. crashes on shutdown. :)
[22:22:51] <tic> w-ber, yeah. or quads. :)
[22:23:46] <w-ber> I'd gladly rid myself of x86, but seems like there are no good alternatives for consumers
[22:23:55] <w-ber> sure, there are PowerPPC Macintoshes, but...
[22:23:58] <w-ber> *PowerPC
[22:24:06] <tic> w-ber, the dothans kick ass.
[22:24:31] <w-ber> Intel?
[22:24:54] <w-ber> I'll have to look into it
[22:26:13] <tic> Yes.
[22:26:21] <tic> I can give you an URL..
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[22:28:01] <tic> w-ber, http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=dothandesktop&page=11
[22:28:08] <w-ber> thanks
[22:28:59] <w-ber> woah
[22:30:14] <w-ber> too bad the Photoshop and other program scores aren't as good
[22:31:22] <tic> well, compare the power usage..
[22:31:30] <tic> ~27W for the Dothan.
[22:32:29] <w-ber> indeed
[22:32:48] * w-ber dreams of dual Dothan system
[22:33:07] <tic> :]
[22:33:25] <tic> then you'll have to wait a year or so until they come out with the dual-core desktop dothans.
[22:34:53] <w-ber> well, I'm in no hurry :)
[22:35:08] <w-ber> I don't do any CPU intensive work except compile programs
[22:35:43] <tic> same here, and that's enough :))
[22:36:44] <w-ber> For a rough example, an Intel Pentium 4 3.4 GHz system will sit online, all day, running at 100W+ power consumption levels. The Pentium-M 2.0 GHz will consume roughly 28W of power when busy, but when is running at its lowest Speedstep mode, will cut that consumption number down to a mere 3.2W.
[22:36:49] <w-ber> impressive
[22:37:14] <tic> that needs software support, however. and no desktop boards support that natively, I think.
[22:37:26] <tic> either way, beos wouldn't support it - gets confused when you lower the clock dynamically
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[22:38:22] <lechu_mys> bye all ;]
[22:38:27] <lechu_mys> have a good night :)
[22:39:24] <tic> night!
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[22:40:34] <oco> tic : you can change the clock at boot time and fix timing issues with cpu_fix. I do this on my AMD 64 laptop
[22:42:37] <tic> oco, yeah, but I'm talking about changing the clock speed at runtime, dynamically.
[22:43:31] <oco> you can do it : i have tested this with my laptop but then you have timing issues
[22:44:00] <tic> that's the problem. :)
[22:44:47] <oco> but if you dynamically change the frequency at boot time and use cpu_fix, you can use the computer at a lower frequency
[22:45:07] <tic> you mean runtime, right?
[22:45:16] <oco> without timing issues
[22:45:33] <tic> changing the frequency dynamically at boot time is pretty much useless :)
[22:45:35] <oco> yes, with a driver loaded just before cpu_fic
[22:46:41] <@mmu_man> I think at least Dano supports freq changes not that bad
[22:46:43] <oco> on my laptop, this increase the autonomy
[22:46:52] <@mmu_man> I think I got it working at least once
[22:47:24] <oco> 21:47:24 <oco>	2 hours instead of one hour
[22:47:37] <tic> okay. 'cause then you could write a driver that changed the clock speed on Pentium M/Centrino systems dynamically based on load!
[22:47:47] <tic> (and voltage..)
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[22:49:25] <@mmu_man> I think there is such a driver in Zeta
[22:49:31] <@mmu_man> for the crusoe
[22:50:01] <oco> yes there is a driver for crusoe available on bebits
[22:50:30] <@mmu_man> yep I even fixed it to not crash on other cpus =)
[22:50:52] <oco> i have a driver for my AMD 64, but still with processor dependant data hardcoded in it
[22:51:14] <oco> so not yet useful on others computers...
[22:51:56] <@mmu_man> well the first thing to do is a clean power managment system
[22:52:15] <oco> is haiku ready for this feature ?
[22:53:55] <tic> mmu_man, going to apply for the kernel engineer position, by the way? ;)
[22:54:11] <oco> :)
[22:55:45] <@Korli> oco i think it's acpi related
[22:55:47] <@mmu_man> i I wasn't busy enough
[22:55:52] <@mmu_man> APM first
[22:56:05] <@mmu_man> even if old it's still in most boxes
[22:56:22] <oco> i have taken CPU dependant data from ACPI tables
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[22:56:35] <@BGA> tic: Yo8u mean he will take 2 different positions? :)
[22:56:42] <tic> BGA, exactly! :)
[22:56:51] <tic> BGA, he's too lazy. needs to get up steam.
[22:56:52] * BGA mutters something about mmu_man being a co-worker. :)
[22:56:58] <tic> BGA, yeah, I knew that.
[22:57:03] <tic> BGA, that's why I said it.
[22:57:27] <tic> anyway, really nice that you're hiring.
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[22:58:22] <brennanos> who's hiring?
[22:58:26] <brennanos> Im unemployed
[22:58:29] <tic> yT
[22:58:34] <brennanos> hn
[22:58:35] <brennanos> hm
[22:58:44] <brennanos> Do I have to live in Germany?
[22:58:52] <tic> yeah.
[22:58:53] <tic> mannheim.
[22:58:56] <brennanos> oh
[22:58:58] <brennanos> damn
[22:59:01] <@mmu_man> lol :)
[22:59:06] * mmu_man pets BGA
[22:59:22] <tic> hehe.
[22:59:22] <brennanos> telecommute
[22:59:29] <brennanos> :(
[22:59:33] <tic> and aren't you in .fr, mmu_man? :)
[22:59:47] <brennanos> Im in .mn.us
[23:00:54] <@Korli> too bad it's not "Experience programming in Haiku a plus." ;)
[23:01:25] <brennanos> well... I gotta go to class...Last semester starts today
[23:01:39] <tic> bye!
[23:01:42] <brennanos> later
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[23:02:30] <oco> is ACPI support is planned in Haiku ?
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[23:07:38] <fyysik> http://bebits.com/bob/18220/libwidget_beos.so.For.Vesa.zip - for unsupported videocards and latest "bleeding" Mozilla-netserver
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[23:12:41] <@mmu_man> oco if someone writes it :)
[23:12:54] <@mmu_man> I'll try to make something usable for Haiku in Zeta
[23:13:13] <@mmu_man> so not to waste again workload
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[23:14:57] <fyysik> hi JBurton
[23:15:03] <JBurton> hi fyysik
[23:15:20] <fyysik> where is Miranda for BeOS? Maybe i should port it?
[23:15:39] <@Korli> hey JBurton
[23:15:57] <JBurton> hi Korli
[23:16:09] <slaad> You mean the messenger program, fyysik?
[23:16:11] <JBurton> fyysik no idea. Is Miranda one of your female friends ? :P
[23:16:12] * slaad slaps fyysik silly
[23:16:15] <fyysik> slaad - yup
[23:17:33] <fyysik> Korli - installed debug terminal at last - http://beos.spb.ru/fyysik/FyysiksCorner-SweetHome.jpg - so will start new emuxki hacking session "soon" ;)
[23:18:02] <slaad> You're a sick, sick man, fyysik
[23:18:05] <oco> mmu_man : i am looking at acpi-ca from intel. I'd like to retrieve CPU_data dynamically from ACPI tables in my little AMD64 driver
[23:18:09] * slaad prescribes a dose of the IM Kit to fyysik
[23:18:14] <@Korli> fyysik student room ? :)
[23:18:22] * fyysik 's female friends had generic name "Lapooshka"
[23:18:35] <@Korli> oco good guess
[23:18:53] <fyysik> Korli - heh, my corner in living room:)
[23:20:07] <fyysik> slaad - no support for cyrillic last i checked in IM Kit, and is unbuildable under R5+Bone. So cannot fix that obstacle myself:(
[23:20:54] <slaad> I've no idea about encoding issues, fyysik, I only speak English, as do all my friends.
[23:21:06] <slaad> Why is it unbuildable? It should build fine under R5+Bone.
[23:22:03] <fyysik> slaad - it didn't 3 months ago...at least in default configuration. And no time to dig it, as i have lot of my own thigs to do
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[23:22:30] <slaad> Try again now please, fyysik
[23:25:21] <fyysik> URL for sources?
[23:25:43] <oco> korli : my main problem is my bad C/C++, especially for pointers :-( This is a good training :-)
[23:25:45] <fyysik> M>Eiman said that he did it under Zeta, maybe that was the reason
[23:26:18] <fyysik> oco - are you Java-man? Or Pascal-guru?
[23:26:32] * fyysik wonders who can have trouble with pointers
[23:26:34] <slaad> http://www.beclan.org/show_project.php?id=3
[23:26:40] <oco> Pascal-guru :)
[23:26:49] <fyysik> thanks slaad - will try
[23:28:13] <fyysik> ahh, nice ideologically correct references instead pointers:)
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[23:32:04] <GNUStep_Me> how do you Install the haiku media server for tests?
[23:32:57] <GNUStep_Me> got jam running through the current cvs.
[23:33:07] <@Korli> GNUStep_Me just make sure a "lib" symlink to ../lib exists in distro servers directory
[23:33:18] <@Korli> then run media_server
[23:33:42] <fyysik> Korli - i 've heard that Haiku media server requires also Haiku Game Kit installed - is it true?
[23:34:09] <@Korli> i>	i don't have it installed
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[23:35:00] <JBurton> fyysik no, it's the opposite
[23:35:03] <GNUStep_Me> spam .. guys ... fyysik...
[23:35:08] <GNUStep_Me> media_server :
[23:35:09] <GNUStep_Me> libmedia.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libmedia.so
[23:35:09] <GNUStep_Me> libroot.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libroot.so
[23:35:10] <GNUStep_Me> libbe.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libbe.so
[23:35:11] <GNUStep_Me> libtextencoding.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libtextencoding.so
[23:35:11] <GNUStep_Me> libpng.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libpng.so
[23:35:12] <GNUStep_Me> libtranslation.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libtranslation.so
[23:35:12] <GNUStep_Me> libstdc++.r4.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libstdc++.r4.so
[23:35:14] <GNUStep_Me> $ ldd media_addon_server
[23:35:16] <GNUStep_Me> media_addon_server :
[23:35:18] <GNUStep_Me> libmedia.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libmedia.so
[23:35:20] <GNUStep_Me> libroot.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libroot.so
[23:35:22] <GNUStep_Me> libbe.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libbe.so
[23:35:24] <GNUStep_Me> libtextencoding.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libtextencoding.so
[23:35:26] <GNUStep_Me> libpng.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libpng.so
[23:35:28] <GNUStep_Me> libtranslation.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libtranslation.so
[23:35:30] <GNUStep_Me> libstdc++.r4.so => /boot/beos/system/lib/libstdc++.r4.so
[23:35:38] <GNUStep_Me> there is no gamekit lib.
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[23:36:00] <JBurton> the haiku game library requires the haiku media kit
[23:36:27] <GNUStep_Me> JBurton, ....
[23:37:46] <fyysik> slaad - it builds. For strange reason i see only AIM protocol in protocol folders
[23:37:47] <GNUStep_Me> the gamekit libgame.so wasn't build here...
[23:39:41] *** tqh has quit IRC
[23:39:49] <GNUStep_Me> but in fakt JBurton, is right the original  libgame.so is build with libmedia.so
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[23:40:29] <JBurton> GNUStep_Me yes, though in theory, one could be able to use our libgame with be's libmedia
[23:40:32] <JBurton> but it's not the case
[23:40:35] <slaad> Did you build all the protocols, fyysik?
[23:40:36] <JBurton> due to some api changes
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[23:40:47] <fyysik> In file included from /boot/home/Projects/imkit/protocols/ICQ/Select.cpp:28:
[23:40:50] <slaad> AIM is the only one that'll build out of the box. The others need external libiraries.
[23:41:10] <slaad> There's instructions on getting ICQ to build, fyysik.
[23:41:12] <fyysik> signal_system.h: No such file or directory
[23:41:24] <slaad> Either in the root directory (readme / buildnotes) or in the ICQ directory
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[23:42:42] <fyysik> no such file. Nowhere
[23:43:20] <slaad> protocols/ICQ/BuildNotes.txt
[23:43:54] <fyysik> ok, will look
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[23:56:19] <fyysik> removing
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[23:58:16] <GNUStep_Me> hm, I see my media_server and media_addon_sever in the deskbar?... should work, but not good looking.
[23:58:55] <GNUStep_Me> now the new addons are also working?





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