[00:02:41] <CIA-6> korli * current/src/add-ons/input_server/methods/canna/Jamfile:
[00:02:41] <CIA-6> fix for gcc-2.95.3_binutils-2.15
[00:02:41] <CIA-6> version 20041202 is needed
[00:06:32] <@AndrewBachmann> Korli what's the fix?
[00:06:52] <CIA-6> korli * current/src/add-ons/input_server/methods/canna/Jamfile: comment typo
[00:07:31] <@Korli> AndrewBachmann option -fmultiple-symbol-spaces for cpp files
[00:07:45] <@AndrewBachmann> -fmultiple-symbol-spaces ?
[00:08:13] <@Korli> yeah, it appeared in this version
[00:08:21] <@AndrewBachmann> what does it do
[00:10:50] <@Korli> "-fmultiple-symbol-space Use multiple symbol spaces (symbol export/import)"
[00:12:10] <@Korli> Oliver told me about this when i sent him my crash screenshot
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[00:16:12] <@Korli> fyysik i don't know this function find_free_pte, maybe you meant emuxki_pmem_alloc ?
[00:16:34] <AnEvilYak> find_free_pte sounds like a VM function
[00:17:28] <@Korli> indeed
[00:19:49] <@Korli> the kernel should panic if there is a problem in find_free_pte
[00:20:08] <@Korli> fyysik any message when system stucks ?
[00:21:24] <fyysik> Korli - this happened far later, something in devfs sorting or so.  delayed crash this time again
[00:21:50] <fyysik> atm i trying to build mozilla also adding flag you proposed
[00:26:24] <@Korli> ok
[00:27:00] <@Korli> have a good night
[00:27:04] <fyysik> nite
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[00:27:34] <fyysik> what was exact socket option for reusing?
[00:27:41] <tqh> fyysik Do you know anything about this:
[00:27:42] <tqh> ###!!! ASSERTION: FIXME:  Please add this screen depth to the code nsScreenBeOS.cpp
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[00:28:26] <fyysik> tqh - is this what we discussed? should be always 32 as we decided
[00:29:08] <tqh> fyysik No I get that when launching from trunk now, and I havn't changed my screen prefs (32 bit)
[00:29:51] <fyysik> tqh - isn't the nsASSERT or such in that file?
[00:30:07] <tqh> Looking at code seems very weird, that shouldn't happen
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[00:30:53] <fyysik> let me look
[00:32:50] <fyysik> h,interesting, yeah
[00:33:09] <tqh> hmm, I'll try a reboot
[00:33:11] <fyysik> maybe it isn't RGB but RGBA ?
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[00:36:11] <tqh> fyysik I think I know what the problem is debugger says 'You need a valid BApplication .before communicating with appserver.. '
[00:36:57] <fyysik> hmm, but maybe it isn't RGB but RGBA ?
[00:37:28] <fyysik> anyway, tqh, we decided to always return 32
[00:37:35] <tqh> Nah, according to BeBook we covered all the various colorspaces, plus it has always worked before
[00:37:38] <fyysik> isn't sp?
[00:38:12] <tqh> the launching code for Firefox must be broken for BeOS
[00:39:36] <fyysik> hmmm
[00:40:09] * tqh realizes he didn't revert some code changes with his 'cvs up' as he didn't delete the changed file.
[00:40:49] <@AndrewBachmann> use cvs up -C
[00:41:02] <tic> *shiver*
[00:41:06] <tic> SVN! Perforce!
[00:41:07] <tic> anything!
[00:41:59] <stippi> tic: I hope none of them overwrites my local changes without me explicitly asking so...
[00:42:10] <tic> they don't.
[00:42:24] <stippi> good
[00:42:32] <tqh> Visual sourcesafe?
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[00:42:35] <tic> at least not in Perforce, because you need to open up the file you want to change first. And when you do a p4 sync, you'll get to the merge tool.
[00:42:41] <tic> tqh, eek. SS is the devil.
[00:42:47] <tic> tqh, ask just about anyone.
[00:42:57] * fyysik wonders how people can work with laptop keyboard
[00:43:12] <tqh> I know. MS don't even use it themselves according to 'Joel on software'
[00:44:48] <tic> exactly.
[00:44:51] <fyysik> yet another rebuild
[00:44:59] <fyysik> for 5 hours at least
[00:45:05] <tic> JoS is pretty good, I usually read his articles.
[00:45:10] * tqh hates that for changes in toolkit he needs to build whole mozilla tree
[00:45:50] <fyysik> tqh - same for changes in view manager
[00:47:09] <tqh> Should have raid disks for this.
[00:47:28] * tic wants a new 'puter
[00:47:51] * tqh too, unfortunatly our 'HemPC' deal sucked
[00:48:12] <tic> yuck.
[00:49:18] <tic> In two months or so, if I get some extra hours at work, I'm gonna buy a Pentium M-MicroATX mobo and a Pentium M-1.7 GHz CPU, together with a DC-DC power supply with dual bricks :)
[00:50:37] <tic> this: http://www.icd.se/default.aspx?aSa=Vp&Pi=982
[00:50:39] <fyysik> tqh or new BeOS VM
[00:51:00] <tic> and two of these: http://www.icd.se/default.aspx?aSa=Vp&Pi=912
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[00:57:35] <[Beta]> glass elevator is quiet
[00:58:50] <Dr_Evil_> great
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[00:59:22] <@Sikosis> makes a change
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[01:17:00] <Procton> mmm... port wine.
[01:17:41] <@AndrewBachmann> CD Manager rules
[01:18:02] <@AndrewBachmann> although it is sort of a sledgehammer to the burning an audio cd problem :-)
[01:18:08] <Procton> hmpf... no.. port wine rules.
[01:18:17] <@AndrewBachmann> port wine + CD Manager rules?
[01:18:56] <Procton> hmm... I could stretch that far, I suppose.
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[01:21:16] <[Beta]> bluetooth core spec v1.2 is 1200 pages long ? :o
[01:27:40] <@geist> yep
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[01:28:48] <@Sikosis> http://haiku-os.tk/
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[01:28:54] <@AndrewBachmann> anybody here use their cell phone for internet connection?
[01:30:07] <[Beta]> yup
[01:30:30] <[Beta]> well, internet use.. thats probably not what you're aftter.
[01:30:40] <@AndrewBachmann> I want cvs
[01:30:42] <@AndrewBachmann> and ssh
[01:30:52] <@AndrewBachmann> or rather, just ssh
[01:31:02] <@AndrewBachmann> (since that gets me cvs, basically
[01:31:10] <[Beta]> if you programmed a ssh port for my phone, you'd have it
[01:31:14] <AndrewBachmann> where are you [Beta]
[01:31:24] <[Beta]> UK, my mobile uses GPRS
[01:35:24] <@geist> get a sidekick
[01:35:27] <@geist> does ssh pretty well
[01:35:59] <@AndrewBachmann> when I am in china I was thinking about connecting to the internet through my phone but I may be dreaming
[01:36:25] <@AndrewBachmann> geist how do you hook up your machine? usb? or ethernet?
[01:36:31] <@geist> to what?
[01:36:41] <@AndrewBachmann> the sidekick, or does it do it natively
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[01:37:20] <@geist> does it natively
[01:37:26] <ShackaN> too late..
[01:38:15] <@geist> heh
[01:39:05] <[Beta]> wow, only just seen a sidekick; they ugly
[01:39:23] <ShackaN> what's a sidekick ?
[01:39:44] <ShackaN> from the name seems some sort of weapon :)
[01:39:46] <@geist> sk2?
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[01:40:00] <@geist> the one snoop dogg says you need?
[01:40:01] <Procton> AndrewBachmann: where to in china?
[01:40:04] <@AndrewBachmann> hrm I think my machine is running out of resources :-/
[01:40:05] <[Beta]> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000A0AZC/103-9782105-2852630?v=glance
[01:40:21] <@AndrewBachmann> I saw a link on google ssh client on sidekick
[01:40:23] <@geist> that's an old one
[01:40:26] <@geist> you want a sidekick2
[01:40:31] <@AndrewBachmann> yeah
[01:40:51] <@geist> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00063DKVC/qid=1104972042/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1_etk-phones/103-7246507-8669419?v=glance&s=wireless&n=301187
[01:40:52] <[Beta]> nah, i'm good with my 910i
[01:40:59] <@AndrewBachmann> I seem to remember I know someone working on the sidekick
[01:41:05] <@geist> ;)
[01:41:39] <@AndrewBachmann> what kind of terminal does it provide
[01:42:07] <ShackaN> ...
[01:42:33] <ShackaN> wait, the sidekick is just another name for a hiptop ?
[01:42:39] <@geist> bingo
[01:42:44] <@geist> tmobile calls it the sidekick
[01:42:46] * [Beta] is confused
[01:42:48] <@geist> it's a hiptop everywhere else
[01:42:57] <[Beta]> we dont get weirdass cdma phones here
[01:42:59] <@geist> now there's a sidekick/hiptop 2
[01:43:06] <@geist> it's not cdma, it's gprs
[01:43:31] <[Beta]> that link ^ says it is, doesnt it ?
[01:43:41] <ShackaN> ok, it's all about amrketing..
[01:43:45] <ShackaN> *marketing
[01:43:51] <@geist> no, it doesn't say it's anything
[01:45:23] <ShackaN> geist, do you know if it's being sold in italy, too ?
[01:45:26] <@AndrewBachmann> oo I can get a china mobile sim with unlimited gprs for about $25 USD
[01:45:38] <@AndrewBachmann> how fast is gprs?
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[01:45:55] <ShackaN> sooo fast you can barely check your mail
[01:45:58] <@geist> ShackaN: I dont think so
[01:46:11] <@AndrewBachmann> I see, modem speeds
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[01:47:47] <ShackaN> wow, 46 people tonight!
[01:48:48] <@geist> anyway, I'm partial to sidekicks since I work on them :)
[01:48:58] <@AndrewBachmann> can you get me one for discount? :-)
[01:50:02] <@geist> what kind of discount do you want? you can get it for $0
[01:50:07] <ShackaN> yeah, I'm sure you get plenty of them for debugging :D
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[01:50:16] <@AndrewBachmann> that'll do
[01:50:16] <Bryan_W> CIA!
[01:50:19] <@AndrewBachmann> where? :-)
[01:50:23] <@geist> the above link
[01:50:50] <@AndrewBachmann> oic
[01:50:57] <@AndrewBachmann> special offers $250
[01:51:03] <@AndrewBachmann> wow
[01:51:10] <ShackaN> geist, is it java-enabled ?
[01:51:30] <@geist> yeah
[01:51:48] <ShackaN> neat...
[01:52:50] <Dr_Evil_> "*(p++) = something" doesn't need the brackets, right?
[01:53:23] <ShackaN> I would avoid left-hand increments
[01:53:27] <@AndrewBachmann> I would leave them
[01:53:44] <@geist> leave them in
[01:53:48] <@geist> it's much clearer
[01:53:49] <ShackaN> can't you write it as two statements ?
[01:54:02] <@geist> yes, but that's perfectly clear
[01:54:06] <@AndrewBachmann> yeah, if you don't know if you need it, the reader probably won't be able to tell
[01:54:07] <ShackaN> ok
[01:54:37] <Dr_Evil_> I'm already the reader, and I was assumming that those are not needed, and wanted confirmation
[01:54:56] <Dr_Evil_> well, thank you for the suggestions, i'm going to look into operator precdedence table
[01:55:12] <@AndrewBachmann> I guess that they are not needed but I don't know
[01:55:25] <@geist> I've seen *p++ = something written enough to pretty much know what's up, but parenthesis wont hurt
[01:56:29] <mumu25> geist: so when does the hiptop get phone capabaility?
[01:56:57] <@geist> eh?
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[01:57:33] <mumu25> geist: as far as i know, you cant make phone calls with the hiptop currently?
[01:57:37] <mumu25> or am i wrong?
[01:57:43] <@geist> well of course you can
[01:57:51] <@geist> it always worked as a phone
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[01:57:56] <mumu25> oh
[01:58:23] <mumu25> well, then my network provider should change it's advertisment
[01:58:43] <@geist> oh? which advertiser? do you have a link to the ad? we should get it changed
[01:58:57] <mumu25> let me see
[02:00:34] <mumu25> ah, ok i might got a false impression somehow, i guess it was listed for sime time as pda and not mobile phone
[02:00:46] <@geist> what network provider?
[02:00:51] <mumu25> but now it's correct
[02:00:53] <mumu25> one
[02:00:54] <mumu25> austria
[02:00:59] <@geist> ah yeah One
[02:02:06] <@geist> yeah I see the ad, it's correctly
[02:02:26] <@geist> those are the old ones too. hopefully they'll get new ones
[02:02:36] <@geist> the new ones are far better, especially in the phone department
[02:03:15] <@AndrewBachmann> sidekick required unlimited data = $20/month :-/
[02:03:24] <mumu25> well, One is very slow on adapting now devices
[02:03:32] <Racer__X> whats the algoritm for a leap yer?
[02:03:37] <[Beta]> for unlimited on a phone, thats far better than Britain, AndrewBachmann.
[02:03:39] <mumu25> AndrewBachmann: that's actually very cheap
[02:03:53] <@AndrewBachmann> yes, it's cheap, if I planned to use it
[02:03:55] <Racer__X> sorry year...
[02:04:22] <@AndrewBachmann> Racer__X, years that are divisable by 4 except years divisable by 100 except years divisable by 400
[02:05:03] <Racer__X> AndrewBachmann thanks.. i was wrong
[02:05:23] <@AndrewBachmann> they always make programmers do those stupid calendar problems
[02:05:26] <mumu25> geist: is it possible to sync the hiptop with evolution somehow?
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[02:06:50] <@geist> I suppose
[02:07:00] <@geist> if someone wrote code to do it
[02:07:27] <mmadia> will R1 support more keyboard navigation that  beos r5 ?
[02:07:36] <@AndrewBachmann> it had better!
[02:08:37] <mumu25> hehe,
[02:09:07] <mumu25> hehe: Forgotten Password Question: who is your favorite danger employee
[02:09:20] <mumu25> (developer signup at danger)
[02:11:39] <Bryan_W> heh
[02:13:49] <Teknomancer> hi Bryan_W
[02:13:58] <mumu25> geist: your developer wiki is broken
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[02:21:37] <mumu25> i still wonder in which languages you can develop for the hiptop. can one write c++ apps instead of java?
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[02:23:49] <@AndrewBachmann> why would you want to? :-)
[02:24:38] <mumu25> i haven't used a hiptop yet, but on symbian c++ apps are much better integrated and much faster
[02:26:21] <[Beta]> modern mobiles can sync using syncML, which is neat
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[02:27:20] <mumu25> [Beta]: yes, but have you actually tried syncing with syncml?
[02:27:49] <[Beta]> my phone does when.. it syncs.
[02:27:50] <mumu25> beside outlook, i only got mess
[02:28:18] <[Beta]> its got its own phonesuite :( it'd  be nice to have an app for BeOS.
[02:28:29] <[Beta]> an 06 01:28:29 <[Beta]>	an intention :)
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[02:29:22] <@AndrewBachmann> syncML ?
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[02:30:46] <mumu25> i guess a SyncKit would be great for beos
[02:30:57] <@AndrewBachmann> mumu25 there is a cellular service provider here in the US that sells the sidekick + data only, with phone service on $0.20 per minute
[02:31:32] <mumu25> syncing is acutally one of the biggest problems on the whole it sector imho
[02:31:40] <MYOB> an 06 01:31:40 <MYOB>	a Sync Kit would be great, assuming it supported addons at both ends - devices and data conduits
[02:32:07] * mmadia pokes MYOB with a stick
[02:32:12] <MYOB> on that topic, my Nokia won't sync with *anything*, neither Windows nor OSX
[02:32:25] <MYOB> evenin' mmadia
[02:32:26] <mmadia> hey MYOB
[02:36:10] <[Beta]> hmm.
[02:36:49] <MYOB> I'm sure if I had a Bluetooth module it might work better, but its meant to be able to sync by USB
[02:37:38] <[Beta]> neat thing - phone can upload its data to the provider to backup contacts/appointments (via SyncML)
[02:38:23] <mumu25> for example, i wanted to sync my sony-ericsson p800 with evolution, but evolution supports multiple calendars, the p800 doesn't. so i can select one calendar to sync with the p800, but not all of them.
[02:38:36] <[Beta]> syncing via USB is slow.. damn serial-usb connections
[02:39:12] <[Beta]> guess I should look at evolution then
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[02:40:04] <mumu25> [Beta]: i also tried to sync my p800 with the syncml server of my network provider
[02:40:07] <mumu25> the problem was
[02:40:18] <mumu25> if i set an alarm for a calendar entry
[02:40:29] <mumu25> the alarm became an entry by it self
[02:40:37] <[Beta]> weird.
[02:41:11] <[Beta]> I'm too cheap to sync it with my provider though, so I just do with my win box.
[02:41:37] <[Beta]> i'd hope they have fixed that on my revised model then :)
[02:43:43] <mumu25> well, i was snowboarding all day, i'm pretty tired now, night all togehter
[02:43:56] <[Beta]> nn
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[02:58:06] <MYOB> GODDAMMIT I HATE OSX
[02:58:15] <MYOB> sorry, had to get that over with
[03:01:00] <@AndrewBachmann> geist will that sidekick support cdma2000 1x
[03:04:23] <Dr_Evil_> oh yes!
[03:04:23] <Dr_Evil_> cx23882_start_capture
[03:04:24] <Dr_Evil_> cx23882_mpegts_int buffer 1
[03:04:24] <Dr_Evil_> cx23882_mpegts_int buffer 2
[03:04:24] <Dr_Evil_> cx23882_mpegts_int buffer 1
[03:04:24] <Dr_Evil_> cx23882_mpegts_int buffer 2
[03:04:26] <Dr_Evil_> cx23882_mpegts_int buffer 1
[03:04:28] <Dr_Evil_> cx23882_mpegts_int buffer 2
[03:04:44] <Dr_Evil_> the RISC program is finally working
[03:05:20] <@AndrewBachmann> :-)
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[03:11:23] * Dr_Evil_ replaces a stupid register write by a "skip 0 bytes" instruction
[03:11:44] <@AndrewBachmann> heh
[03:12:12] <@AndrewBachmann> geist can you give me a link for technical info on the sidekick 2
[03:12:31] <@AndrewBachmann> hrm I may be ok
[03:12:34] <@AndrewBachmann> at danger.com now
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[03:14:32] <@AndrewBachmann> hrm, no way to hook up to laptop? :-/
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[03:14:53] <@AndrewBachmann> hrm
[03:14:58] <@AndrewBachmann> it says usb cable in the accessories
[03:16:00] <Dr_Evil_> skip 0 bytes works! ands it's 24 bytes shorter now ;)
[03:16:07] <@AndrewBachmann> heh
[03:16:59] <MYOB> AndrewBachmann - I saw you mention CDMA. Do you not has GSM in LA?
[03:17:13] <@AndrewBachmann> I am in san francisco
[03:17:23] <@AndrewBachmann> currently I have verizon wireless, a provider which uses CDMA
[03:17:38] <@AndrewBachmann> I have excellent reception and coverage.  in 5 years the only time I drop calls is tunnels
[03:17:41] <MYOB> or do you have another reason for using CDMA?
[03:18:07] <@AndrewBachmann> however they only offer 1 world phone which costs $250 after discount and isn't compelling
[03:18:23] <@AndrewBachmann> also the international roaming is more expensive than alternatives
[03:18:34] <@AndrewBachmann> right now this sidekick 2 looks pretty good
[03:18:46] <MYOB> sorry, SF not LA
[03:19:23] <MYOB> The US mobile system is a shambles
[03:19:39] <@AndrewBachmann> heh, well CDMA is technically superior
[03:19:41] * AndrewBachmann ducks
[03:20:12] <Dr_Evil_> cx23882_mpegts_int buffer 1 at 46990641299
[03:20:12] <Dr_Evil_> cx23882_mpegts_int buffer 2 at 46990677571
[03:20:12] <Dr_Evil_> cx23882_mpegts_int buffer 1 at 46990713842
[03:20:28] <@AndrewBachmann> the system is getting simplified here by mergers and such
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[03:20:37] <@AndrewBachmann> TDMA is going away, so there is only CDMA and GSM left
[03:20:41] <Dr_Evil_> and buffer size is 20 * 16 * 188 = 60160 bytes
[03:20:44] <@AndrewBachmann> same for analog
[03:20:47] <MYOB> be that as it may, the whole contract system and the conflicting technologies are bad, bad, bads
[03:21:08] <@AndrewBachmann> not really
[03:21:17] <@AndrewBachmann> you don't have to pay by contract
[03:21:33] <@AndrewBachmann> and plenty of companies want to introduce CDMA to europe, but it won't ever go there for political reasons
[03:21:40] <MYOB> here we only have GSM, and most people use prepay
[03:21:44] <@AndrewBachmann> (GSM developed by a european conglomerate)
[03:21:48] <MYOB> on my network theres no incentives to use an account, prepay is as cheap
[03:22:05] <Dr_Evil_> and 36 ms per buffer, I guess thats acceotable
[03:23:10] <@AndrewBachmann> who wanted to know about developing for the sidekick? http://www.danger.com/developers.php
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[03:43:53] <AnEvilYak> AndrewBachmann: indeed.
[03:44:00] * AnEvilYak pets his SK2
[03:44:31] <AnEvilYak> note however that developing for it means getting a key to unlock it so you can install apps from web pages...which in turn voids your warranty
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[04:01:15] <Teknomancer> this sucks...
[04:01:30] <Teknomancer> the mime type i store in a resource doesn't store the extensionm
[04:01:33] <Teknomancer> damn
[04:02:00] <Dr_Evil_> extensions are irrelavant
[04:02:04] <Dr_Evil_> you will be assimilated
[04:02:15] <Teknomancer> ugh
[04:02:29] <Teknomancer> when i register a file type like zip, don't i need to register its extension as .zip
[04:02:30] <Teknomancer> !
[04:03:00] <AnEvilYak> that's not the only thing the OS uses to figure out the type...
[04:03:00] <Dr_Evil_> no, that is done by the mime database
[04:03:10] <AnEvilYak> iirc only really uses extensions on non-attribute filesystems
[04:03:16] <Dr_Evil_> you just list waht your app supports
[04:04:08] <Teknomancer> suppose a system doesn't have lzh mime type and my app supports lzh . don't i need to add ".lzh" to the extension then ???
[04:04:20] <Teknomancer> apart from adding the mime type itself..
[04:05:12] <Dr_Evil_> no
[04:05:22] <Dr_Evil_> but you need to add it to the mime database
[04:05:34] <Teknomancer> just the mime type right? "application/x-lzh"
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[04:05:49] <@AndrewBachmann> hrm I heard a rumor that mozilla and vision don't play well together
[04:07:10] <Dr_Evil_> Teknomancer there is http://guillaume.maillard.free.fr/bebook/The%20Storage%20Kit/MimeType.html#BMimeType
[04:07:17] <Dr_Evil_> but I can't help you
[04:07:24] <Dr_Evil_> it' 4:00 now, need to sleep
[04:07:32] <Teknomancer> ok
[04:07:41] <AnEvilYak> AndrewBachmann: in what sense?
[04:07:46] <Dr_Evil_> if (!mime.IsInstalled())
[04:07:46] <Dr_Evil_> mime.Install();
[04:07:51] <Dr_Evil_> night
[04:07:52] <Teknomancer> ok
[04:08:12] <@AndrewBachmann> if both are running at the same time they tend to hang each other
[04:08:30] <AnEvilYak> AndrewBachmann: mm, I've had that problem with some builds of moz..
[04:08:36] <AnEvilYak> AndrewBachmann: not the version of Firefox I'm currently using though
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[04:08:45] <AnEvilYak> some of the old ones used to keep killing off the port for Vision's window thread when they'd hang.
[04:08:51] <@AndrewBachmann> I'm running 0.8.0 which seems ok
[04:08:59] <AnEvilYak> though leave it for long enough and it'd eventually start killing off almost every port in the system
[04:09:04] <@AndrewBachmann> that's kind of what I'm seeing
[04:09:05] <AnEvilYak> don't know why it'd always kill Vision's first.
[04:09:14] <@AndrewBachmann> which version do you have now
[04:09:29] <AnEvilYak> 0.9.3/20040909
[04:09:38] <@AndrewBachmann> do you have an install?
[04:09:55] <AnEvilYak> I'm pretty sure it came from the bezilla page on bebits...
[04:09:59] <AnEvilYak> lemme look
[04:11:19] <AnEvilYak> http://www.bebits.com/bob/17860/MozillaFirefox_093-beos-20040909-BONE-NATIVE_APP.zip
[04:11:21] <AnEvilYak> that one I believe.
[04:11:28] <@AndrewBachmann> bone
[04:11:34] <AnEvilYak> indeed.
[04:11:41] <@AndrewBachmann> well, that I don't want :-)
[04:11:47] <AnEvilYak> can't help you then
[04:12:02] <AnEvilYak> not used a net_server-based BeOS in ~3 and a half years
[04:12:16] <@AndrewBachmann> my only boned box drives me nuts
[04:12:25] <@AndrewBachmann> anyway gtg bbiab
[04:12:28] <AnEvilYak> see ya
[04:12:52] <AnEvilYak> http://www.bebits.com/bob/17864/MozillaFirefox-i586-pc-beos-20040911.zip
[04:12:55] <AnEvilYak> there's the one you want.
[04:13:17] <@AndrewBachmann> well, not without a referral I don't :-)
[04:13:23] * AndrewBachmann doesn't trust mozilla builds
[04:13:34] <AnEvilYak> well, that's the net_server equivalent of the one I just linked
[04:13:43] * AnEvilYak shrugs
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[04:18:20] <mmadia> does anyone know what R1's stance on improving or standardizing keyboard navigation will be?
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[05:42:52] <mmadia42> hi Cramit
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[06:54:31] <@AndrewBachmann> geist does the sidekick have a way to use it as a modem for a laptop?
[06:55:38] <AnEvilYak> AndrewBachmann: nope.
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[07:02:38] <@geist> no
[07:03:25] <@geist> it's a tmobile thing
[07:08:12] <@AndrewBachmann> do you sell a version that does
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[07:11:00] <@AndrewBachmann> hrm I just realized that using ssh from china to the US in any situation is probably going to be a little annoying
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[07:11:18] <@AndrewBachmann> the lag is going to probably drive me nuts
[07:11:21] <@AndrewBachmann> yo NathanW
[07:11:25] <NathanW> hi AndrewBachmann
[07:11:54] <NathanW> what's up?
[07:12:08] * NathanW just got his computer back again after a few days' lapse...
[07:12:12] <@AndrewBachmann> trying to find a phone/laptop to take to china
[07:12:19] <NathanW> ah, cool
[07:12:25] <NathanW> what are you going to China for?
[07:12:38] <@AndrewBachmann> the sidekick 2 is very cool but it's starting to look like I won't get it
[07:12:47] <@AndrewBachmann> I'm going with my girlfriend
[07:13:14] <@mmu_man> AndrewBachmann try to set up sshd on the SMTP port, they don't filter that one as it's used by their army of spammers :))
[07:14:07] <NathanW> nice
[07:15:20] <NathanW> have fun with that...
[07:15:31] <@geist> yeah I sk2 wont work in china
[07:15:35] <@AndrewBachmann> unfortunately all the nice laptops have support problems
[07:15:46] <@AndrewBachmann> you know for sure geist?
[07:15:49] 
[07:15:59] <@geist> unless tmo has some sort of data roaming agreement
[07:16:19] <@AndrewBachmann> cingular blue (formerly known as AT&T) has a data roaming agreement
[07:16:24] <@AndrewBachmann> but cingular orange does not
[07:16:31] <@AndrewBachmann> that's the most I know
[07:16:32] <@geist> cingular != tmobile
[07:16:41] <@AndrewBachmann> yeah, I know that too :-)
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[07:17:00] <@AndrewBachmann> maybe I can call tmobile and find someone who knows
[07:17:13] <@geist> but it sounds like that's not what you want
[07:17:23] <@geist> if yo uwant a power user pda like thing the sk is probably not for you
[07:17:43] <@AndrewBachmann> actually if I can get data roaming then I can check my email and do instant messaging which will be good for work
[07:17:44] <@geist> it's a relatively inexpensive internet thingy for most consumer like folks
[07:18:07] <@geist> well, it does those two very well
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[07:18:41] <@AndrewBachmann> it will be helpful for me to maintain accessibility when I can't find a place to hookup my laptop
[07:18:52] <@AndrewBachmann> I could even transfer small patches by hand
[07:19:20] <@AndrewBachmann> too bad it doesn't have an infrared or bluetooth connection at least
[07:19:39] <@AndrewBachmann> but it would be exceedingly useful even without that
[07:19:52] <@geist> it does, but not on tmobile
[07:19:56] <@geist> and not officially
[07:20:07] <@AndrewBachmann> which? bluetooth?
[07:20:11] <@geist> no, via usb
[07:20:24] <@AndrewBachmann> oh, I saw that they sold a usb cable and wondered about it
[07:20:27] <@geist> but it's all moot. tmo has a different data hookup with us that makes it impossible
[07:20:40] <@AndrewBachmann> any supporting providers out there?
[07:20:47] <@geist> not without the ability to hold a second data connection
[07:20:51] <@AndrewBachmann> I noticed some company called suncom
[07:20:55] <@geist> which normal tmo sims dont have
[07:21:13] <@geist> since tmo doesn't support it, we haven't spent any real time on it, and thus none of the other carriers support it either
[07:21:19] <@geist> and thus it's not a real feature
[07:21:25] <@AndrewBachmann> aha
[07:21:36] <@mmu_man> they don't have ear-sized portable sat dishes at NASA ?
[07:21:51] <@AndrewBachmann> yes, but I can't get clearance to take it to china
[07:21:57] <AnEvilYak> AndrewBachmann: Suncom are a subsidiary provider for AT&T I believe.
[07:22:00] <@mmu_man> hehe
[07:29:08] <@AndrewBachmann> geist this is a better deal than amazon:
[07:29:09] <@AndrewBachmann> http://www.letstalk.com/product/promo.htm?depId=2&pgId=101&brandId=139&cmpId=175&prId=26607&to=7207
[07:29:35] <@geist> yep
[07:47:54] <@AndrewBachmann> seems roaming to china the sidekick will work but it costs 1.5cents/KB
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[09:57:36] <@AndrewBachmann> wb dr
[09:58:06] <@AndrewBachmann> geist can you check gmail with a sidekick
[09:58:29] <@AndrewBachmann> (uses SSL connection)
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[10:05:33] <@Korli> hey people
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[10:43:16] <stippi> titer?
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[10:59:17] <@AndrewBachmann> hey geist can you get me a sim unlock code for my sidekick if I get one
[11:01:35] <@AndrewBachmann> and if I stuck in a china sim would I still be able to use the ssh client
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[11:10:21] <CIA-6> rudolfc * current/src/add-ons/accelerants/nvidia/engine/nv_acc.c: added some info about possible DMA setup.
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[11:58:41] <fyysik> tqh - how's going?
[12:08:12] <tqh> not good, havn't gotten it to start. Seems to fail somewhere while launching but no interesting asserts.
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[12:17:14] <fyysik> heh, IE share seems dropped to ~70 % in last three months, FF share raised to 20%
[12:18:00] <fyysik> interesting, that lot of people use Netscape 7.1/7.2. "Brand-dead" humans
[12:18:11] <fyysik> why not less bloated and more advanced Mozilla?
[12:18:47] <@mmu_man> cause they don't want to openly support comunism
[12:18:57] * mmu_man recalls that funny advertising
[12:20:46] <w-ber> damn capitalists
[12:21:05] <tic> commies 4 the win! :)
[12:23:59] <@mmu_man> it's funny how communism was born in a very cold country...
[12:24:17] <@mmu_man> probably cause it's a place where they like to close teh Windows(tm)
[12:39:04] <fyysik> Do you mean Germany or Britain, mmu_man ?
[12:41:19] <@mmu_man> was thinking about bigger one
[12:41:43] <@mmu_man> but yeah everything that has a higher latitude than france is too cold anyway :)
[12:43:20] * fyysik thinks that some parts of Russia had lower lattitude than France:)
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[12:49:33] <@mmu_man> depends if you count all those wanna-get-independant countries
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[12:52:21] <fyysik> mmu_man - i meant Russian Empire where communism was "born".
[12:54:16] <TuneTracker> yo tic -- thanks...  I might need to reinstall the correct lib... window panes are just a few pixels high.
[12:58:19] <TuneTracker> tic
[12:58:38] <TuneTracker> oh phooski
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[13:00:22] <@mmu_man> ok ok, well France has french guyana, so :p
[13:07:15] <fyysik> mmu_man - heh, yeah, that's unbeatable! and it had much more - half of Africa, IIRC:)
[13:08:12] <@mmu_man> yep
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[13:37:37] <Fanskapet> agh.. even BeOS Max edition doesn't want too boot correctly on my laptop :/
[13:37:47] <Fanskapet> now my only hope lies on MiniBe :/
[13:37:49] <Lebuzzer> tic
[13:39:28] <Fanskapet> agh and i can't find that minibe ISO
[13:39:39] <Fanskapet> anyone here got it and could do a dcc-send?
[13:39:48] <Fanskapet> or just put it up on the web somewhere
[13:40:19] <w-ber> MiniBe?
[13:41:33] <Fanskapet> yeah.. a really smal distro of BeOS 5 PE
[13:41:37] <Fanskapet> just 45 mb or so.
[13:41:47] <Fanskapet> for patching the kernel and doing some small stuff
[13:46:27] <w-ber> I bet you didn't try Google :P
[13:46:40] <Fanskapet> I bet i did!
[13:46:41] <Fanskapet> :)
[13:48:56] <w-ber> http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/beos/
[13:49:03] <w-ber> ftp.be.com mirror, but it's not there
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[13:50:15] <Fanskapet> hummz
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[14:00:07] <Lebuzzer> tic You still there?
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[14:23:54] <Monni> two users in BeShare have MiniBe
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[14:25:48] <Fanskapet> hmm my firewall seems to refuse searching on those users then
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[14:27:30] <Fanskapet> hmm it would be really nice to atleast know why the screen goes black
[14:27:36] <Fanskapet> the debugger says me nothing really
[14:28:15] <Fanskapet> it seems like the installer is started though, becouse the harddrive starts loading when i click around.. so i guess i click on some options in the installer :)
[14:28:18] <Fanskapet> can't see them though
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[14:30:31] <Monni> ftp://ftp.bebits.com/pub/mini-be/
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[14:32:37] <Fanskapet> ah thks
[14:32:42] <Monni> np
[14:32:43] <Fanskapet> then let's see if that baby works.
[14:32:53] <Fanskapet> im skeptic though
[14:34:05] <Monni> well... let's call it being realistic... BeOS doesn't run on a lot of machines...
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[14:39:28] <Fanskapet> yeah. sadly.
[14:39:50] <Fanskapet> i've been pretty luckely in the past though, BeOS has been runable on all my machines but one
[14:39:55] <Fanskapet> ah well and maybe this one too :)
[14:39:56] <@mmu_man> it runs on my dual, and teh athlon XP here
[14:40:00] <@mmu_man> well Zeta does :)
[14:40:10] <Fanskapet> Zeta doesn't even run here :/
[14:40:27] <Fanskapet> maybe i should try booting my old R4.5 cd
[14:40:31] <@mmu_man> repported to http://bugzilla.yellowtab.com ?
[14:40:46] <Monni> Zeta runs on only one of my boxes where BeOS R5 doesn't...
[14:40:57] <Fanskapet> if that doesn't work.. then my hopes are lost for R5.x :)
[14:41:10] <@mmu_man> try R4 :p
[14:41:17] <Fanskapet> mmu_man, i've sent a mail.. although i don't have RC3 as a bought legal copy :) sadly.
[14:41:44] <Monni> hehe... sane persons don't pay for stuff that doesn't even work ;)
[14:41:47] <Fanskapet> I want to test the product before buying it :).. and well.. now i don't actually have a reason for buying it :)
[14:41:52] <Fanskapet> yeah :)
[14:42:05] <Fanskapet> hmm well gotta reboot and try R4
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[14:43:15] <Monni> mmu_man: now that you opened your mouth, you can explain me what the fsck is J frame ;)
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[14:46:02] <lechu_mys> hi :)
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[14:49:07] <Fanskapet> ahh i might have solved my problem :)
[14:49:39] <Monni> does that mean we have one less Windows user again ;)?
[14:49:52] <Fanskapet> ahh well hopefully :)
[14:49:57] <Fanskapet> R4.5 did the same thing in the beginning
[14:50:31] <Fanskapet> then i thought.. maybe BeOS acts strangely on laptop/monitors.. so i've plugged in my other monitor in the VGA
[14:50:39] <Fanskapet> and then rebooted my computer
[14:50:42] <Fanskapet> and voila :)
[14:50:55] <Fanskapet> it will be interesting to see what Zeta does though
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[14:59:45] <Dr_Evil> AndrewBachmann have a look: http://home.arcor.de/your_name_here/beos/BeOS_DVB-T_1.png
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[15:13:54] <@mmu_man> Monni ??
[15:14:06] <@mmu_man> in WMV ?
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[15:23:34] <Teknomancer> WMV works with VLC :) atleast the one i tested works ;-)
[15:23:42] <Teknomancer> do VCD's play in BeOS ?
[15:23:45] <Teknomancer> i mean .DAT files ?
[15:23:51] <@mmu_man> they should
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[15:25:04] <Teknomancer> in VLC ?
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[15:25:41] <Teknomancer> ! hehe, i forgot to try them out in VLC instead i was trying out in  MediaPlayer :)
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[15:44:49] <Monni> mmu_man: I think it's asf/wmv file
[15:45:32] <@mmu_man> j-type frames are a special kind of keyframes used in wmv2 video
[15:45:38] <@mmu_man> ffmpeg doesn't decode them yet
[15:45:40] <Monni> mmu_man: ffmpeg doesn't re-encode one file and even Windows says file is 0:00 long
[15:45:46] <@mmu_man> so you see weird stuff when playing
[15:46:01] <@mmu_man> WMV suxor anyway
[15:46:18] <Monni> mmu_man: well... I know, but tell that to 50 million Korean...
[15:46:52] <@AndrewBachmann> congrats Dr_Evil
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[15:47:45] <Monni> mmu_man: fun thing is that VLC plays that file, but picture by picture... there is absolutely zero sync ;)
[15:48:09] <@mmu_man> for s in $(dig @.kr); do echo "you suck; don't use WMV crap" | nc $s, done
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[15:49:14] <Monni> mmu_man: well... it's not even just Korea, a lot of Japanese companies send videos encoded as asf/wmv and I have to deal with them at work...
[15:50:02] <Monni> mmu_man: only thing why I still support asf/wmv files is because I want to re-encode them to mpg files but as none of Windows apps or common Linux/BeOS apps reads them correctly, I'm kinda stuck...
[15:50:24] <Dr_Evil> Monni just delete them
[15:50:42] <@mmu_man> hmm
[15:50:51] <Monni> Dr_Evil: Not my machine
[15:51:06] <Dr_Evil> then why do you care?
[15:51:13] <Monni> even Windows Media Player doesn't play them smoothly ;) which is kinda sad excuse ;)
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[15:51:24] <@mmu_man> google for Jiao System, Ltd.VCDCutter
[15:51:35] <@mmu_man> that thing can read asf and output mpg in windoze
[15:51:35] <Monni> Dr_Evil: Because I get paid to do things like this
[15:51:53] <@mmu_man> just explain them it's bad
[15:51:56] <Monni> mmu_man: even J frames?
[15:52:13] <@mmu_man> well it uses windoze codec I think
[15:52:19] <@mmu_man> but maybe only WMV1
[15:52:24] <@mmu_man> long since I used that
[15:52:24] * Dr_Evil is more into this kind of data http://home.arcor.de/your_name_here/beos/BeOS_DVB-T_2.png
[15:52:29] <Monni> mmu_man: Well... Even Windows codecs don't handle that file...
[15:52:30] <Fanskapet> hmm BeOS works weird on this laptop :).. seems to be only the installation who needs a external monitor
[15:52:39] <@mmu_man> then it's broken
[15:52:56] <Monni> mmu_man: nah... ffmpeg says it's valid even though it skips J frames
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[15:53:25] <@mmu_man> Dr_Evil oh you have that series too :)
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[15:59:05] <Dr_Evil> mmu_man whats the mpeg2 sync byte, 0x2f or 0x47?
[15:59:21] <@mmu_man> how would I know ?
[16:00:20] <Dr_Evil> as ffmpeg developer, there was a chance for you to know ;)
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[16:08:05] <Dr3w> anyone know how I add users to be auto-oped using Chanserv?
[16:13:42] <Dr_Evil> yes, it's easy Dr3w
[16:14:20] <Dr_Evil> . /msg chanserv access #channelname add username 25
[16:15:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Dr_Evil
[16:15:56] <@Dr_Evil> you also need to set autoop (index 6) level to soemthing like 25, or better use 28 as I did
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[16:21:17] <Dr3w> ah thanks
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[16:27:48] <Dr3w> Cool done it.
[16:27:55] <Dr3w> auto-ops set up in #HaikuPPC :)
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[16:43:53] <Dr3w> later folks
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[17:20:47] <Fanskapet> agh.
[17:21:17] <Fanskapet> i got the LCD monitor working in Zeta RC1, but RC3 seems to refuse me using the LCD monitor by some strange reason
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[18:42:32] <[Beta]> chuffing cold out there.
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[18:56:41] <fyysik> where i can get latest haiku dosfs binary?
[19:00:31] <[Beta]> well, changes have been commited to the respository..
[19:00:56] <stippi> the other day I heard something about an RTF Translator... where do I get that?
[19:01:34] <@Dr_Evil> hi stippi! checkout http://beusergroup.de
[19:01:47] <@Dr_Evil> stippi axeld is working on one
[19:01:56] <@Dr_Evil> and it's in the haiku repository
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[19:02:49] <stippi> Dr_Evil: Where?
[19:04:10] <@Dr_Evil> http://beusergroup.de/cgi-bin/index.cgi?action=viewnews&id=523 and http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/open-beos/current/src/add-ons/translators/rtftranslator/
[19:09:50] <[Beta]> "the source for these pictures is not well-known for reliable pieces of news" is google translating that badly, or .. ? heh
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[19:11:13] <stippi> Dr_Evil: Das sind richtig super News!
[19:13:25] <TuneTracker> stippi!
[19:14:13] <AnEvilYak> Dr_Evil: awesome :)
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[19:16:02] <dipp> hmm so when will the site be alive again?
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[19:52:14] <stippi> Dr_Evil: I'm missing that part of the repository. How do I cvs update so that it also loads new folders?
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[19:55:09] <stippi> never mind.
[19:55:10] <stippi> -d
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[19:56:10] <lechu_mys> hi :)
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[20:09:26] <TuneTracker> tic How was the party?
[20:10:36] <DaaT> party? what party and why wasn't i invited? :)
[20:11:25] <Procton> DaaT: are you seriously surprised you weren't invited? ;)
[20:11:38] <DaaT> not really no
[20:11:39] <DaaT> :P
[20:11:43] * DaaT goes sit in the corner
[20:11:47] <Procton> thought so...
[20:12:22] * Procton does that too.
[20:12:45] <dipp> haha
[20:13:26] * DaaT smacks Procton on the back of the head, for being mean
[20:13:35] * Procton fetches a bottle of port wine and heads back to the corner.
[20:13:48] <AnEvilYak> DaaT: just steal his coffee supplie, it's much more tormenting
[20:14:06] <DaaT> he's on wine now... portuguese to top it off :P?
[20:14:12] <DaaT> - the ?
[20:15:21] <Procton> yeah... you should know I like to get smacked, just like I know that you like to dress up in a cheerleader costume and dance to Britney Spears.
[20:15:36] <AnEvilYak> ROFL
[20:15:37] <AnEvilYak> ouch
[20:16:18] <Procton> never mind me... it is the port wine talking.
[20:16:25] <DaaT> Procton, so? what's the problem with that?
[20:16:27] <DaaT> :P
[20:16:32] <DaaT> BRITNEY RULES!
[20:16:36] <w-ber> :(
[20:16:38] <Procton> lol
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[20:25:43] <tic> thies, fine thanks .:)
[20:25:45] <tic> just got home.
[20:25:53] <TuneTracker> wb tic
[20:25:58] <tic> thanks.
[20:26:04] <tic> got my aunt and cousin around, gonna show 'em some photos.
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[20:27:35] <tic> be with you in a bit. :)
[20:27:39] <tic> wb voidref.
[20:28:15] <TuneTracker> tic Can I grab that zipper from ya?
[20:29:16] <tic> not really. have to restart and see if I can get it working.
[20:29:20] <tic> wait a minute.
[20:30:44] <Fanskapet> agh.. im getting jealous of all BeOS users now :/ im going to send this laptop to hell! :)
[20:30:56] <tic> but can't you patch it on another system and install that image?
[20:31:05] <AnEvilYak> TuneTracker: do I want to know why you're grabbing people's zippers? ;p
[20:31:17] <Fanskapet> ahh well maybe i can get an ordinary R5 installation up and running in VPC atleast :)
[20:31:19] <Karina``> lol
[20:31:24] * DaaT points and laughs at Fanskapet
[20:31:35] <DaaT> AnEvilYak... lol
[20:31:44] <DaaT> AnEvilYak, stop being jealous
[20:31:47] <DaaT> and hi Karina`` **
[20:31:47] <Fanskapet> *snarls* :)
[20:32:49] <TuneTracker> I should have KNOWN somebody would nab me for that poor choice of vernacular.
[20:33:19] <DaaT> TuneTracker, of course... and that it'd probably be either me or AnEvilYak :P
[20:33:23] <AnEvilYak> TuneTracker: if I hadn't, Daniel would've ;p
[20:33:25] <AnEvilYak> jinx
[20:33:31] * AnEvilYak looks at DaaT
[20:33:39] <Karina``> heya DaaT
[20:33:47] <TuneTracker> AnEvilYak True enuf
[20:34:28] * DaaT looks at AnEvilYak :)
[20:34:31] <DaaT> how's it going Karina``?
[20:34:35] <AnEvilYak> bbiab lunch
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[20:34:45] * Karina`` wonders if DaaT dances with a lifesize cutout of Justin Timberlake while doin his Britney thing
[20:34:56] <Karina``> not too bad thanx hon, how about yourself?
[20:35:02] <DaaT> Karina``, sure, then i have a "wardrobe malfunction"
[20:35:14] <Karina``> lol
[20:36:31] <DaaT> i'm doing good thx
[20:36:47] <Karina``> goovy
[20:36:58] <DaaT> and groovy too ;)
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[20:41:31] <tic> hey nielx!
[20:41:34] <tic> nielx, got your internet back? :)
[20:41:44] <tic> TuneTracker, back again, let's see if we can't work something out..
[20:41:53] <TuneTracker> k!
[20:41:57] <TuneTracker> standing by
[20:42:11] <nielx> tic, yeah, I went to my parents earlier
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[20:43:58] <tic> okay, something's wrong.  I'm going to reboot my 'puter.
[20:43:59] *** tic has quit IRC
[20:45:37] <DaaT> that won't fix it... the user will still be the same
[20:45:38] <@mmu_man> vlc /winblows/video/virtuetv/outofmyhead_0032_w_250.wmv
[20:46:44] <TuneTracker> mmu_man Sometime I'd like to chat with you at length about VLC and see if I can comprehend better what it is for.
[20:47:24] <@mmu_man> playing videos
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[20:47:30] <TuneTracker> wb tic
[20:47:49] <@mmu_man> stupid ones and not stupid ones
[20:48:05] * mmu_man pets Weird Al Yankovic_Amish Paradise.asf
[20:48:14] <@mmu_man> ASF SUX but those vids rock
[20:48:48] <tic> :]
[20:48:52] <tic> it's cool when he walks backwards.
[20:49:00] <tic> thanks
[20:49:02] <tic> http://dundermusen.mine.nu/dump/bins/KISSlib.so.3.5.10
[20:49:04] <tic> rename it to KISSlib.so
[20:49:49] <tic> Hrm, should I go out for a 30 min run outside?
[20:50:03] <tic> first, I need to know if Mr. TT get it working.
[20:53:57] <tic> TuneTracker, elo?
[20:54:33] <TuneTracker> tic grabbing
[20:55:15] <TuneTracker> tic that did the trick!
[20:55:21] <TuneTracker> tic tell me what to try!@
[20:55:41] <tic> TuneTracker, what I sent in the mail, I suppose. Try to drag around the files in the play list view
[20:55:52] <tic> and try to drag files from the search view into specific positions in the play list view.
[20:55:55] <Dr_Evil> mmu_man I think I have Amishc Paradise as mpeg or avi
[20:56:01] <tic> playlist view, even.
[20:56:05] <TuneTracker> tic trying it...
[20:56:08] <@mmu_man> Dr_Evil well VLC plays it fine
[20:56:27] <@mmu_man> hopefully so will other players when I've done the ASF demuxer
[20:56:33] <TuneTracker> tic works!
[20:57:15] <tic> TuneTracker, goodie.  try to hit it as hard as you can, I only had three cases I could come up with, if you find any place where it fails, lemme know.  Also, I'm going to add indicators so you see directly where stuff's going to be dropped.
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[21:21:04] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/fs/vfs.cpp:
[21:21:04] <CIA-6> vfs_get_module_path() now actually works: it failed to create a valid full
[21:21:04] <CIA-6> path, since it didn't take into account that vnode_path_to_vnode() may
[21:21:04] <CIA-6> actually change the provided buffer.
[21:21:04] <CIA-6> Also fixed a potential buffer overrun in that function (bufferSize was
[21:21:04] <CIA-6> not correctly changed), and added a comment about a previously undocumented
[21:21:06] <CIA-6> property of vnode_path_to_vnode() that vfs_get_module_path() relies on.
[21:21:57] <@mmu_man> hmm what if the fs uses hardlinks ?
[21:22:01] * mmu_man pets axeld
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[21:31:40] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/module.c:
[21:31:40] <CIA-6> Added a SUPPORT_BOOTFS definition and made the vfs_get_module_path() the new
[21:31:40] <CIA-6> standard mechanism - recurse_directory() is now only used if SUPPORT_BOOTFS
[21:31:40] <CIA-6> is defined and vfs_get_module_path() failed.
[21:31:40] <CIA-6> Added standard system kernel add-ons directory to the search path list.
[21:31:40] <CIA-6> Renamed USER_MODULE_PATHS to FIRST_USER_MODULE_PATH as that's what it is.
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[21:32:50] <@mmu_man> me * foo.c
[21:33:03] <@mmu_man> A very long comment that nobody will ever understand appart myself
[21:33:10] <@mmu_man> ...
[21:33:16] <@mmu_man> :)
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[21:37:02] <bs0> could anyone port PTH to beos to compile the jabberd 1.4.3 server ?
[21:37:19] <@mmu_man> PTH ? the GNU thread lib ?
[21:37:26] <@mmu_man> (!= pthread)
[21:37:41] <@mmu_man> wonder if it's not done already
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[21:40:11] <Fanskapet> btw.. anyone heard that Discworld1/2 probably will be playable in BeOS soon? :)
[21:40:19] <Fanskapet> ah well "soon" :)
[21:40:33] <DaaT> cool
[21:40:54] <Fanskapet> the ScummVM crew will most likely get their hands on the DW1/2 sourcecode
[21:41:12] <Fanskapet> pratchett have spoken to one of the crewmembers about the src :)
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[21:42:20] <Fanskapet> I heard something about making DW1/2 as freeware aswell.. but that i do not know much of..
[21:42:36] <Fanskapet> doesn't really matter for me though since i got it as original :) a few of the games i really bought :)
[21:43:00] <Fanskapet> one of the few really _worth_ buying aswell :)
[21:43:59] <Fanskapet> BeOS got plenty of mainstream games now with the help of ScummVM :)
[21:44:06] <bs0> mmu_man pthreads is in libpak but it needs PTH =/
[21:44:23] <@mmu_man> ugh ?
[21:44:29] <bs0> :/
[21:44:33] <bs0> look
[21:44:38] <bs0> i installed libpak for devs
[21:44:44] <bs0> there is pthreads ported to beos
[21:45:07] <bs0> then i wanted to ./configure jabberd1.4.3, but it says it needs PTH =|
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[21:46:19] <bs0> i downloaded pth
[21:46:28] <bs0> but....
[21:46:35] <@mmu_man> stupid soft :)
[21:46:56] <bs0> but
[21:46:59] <bs0> ./configure:Error: decision on mandatory system headers and functions failed.
[21:47:00] <bs0> ./configure:Hint: see config.log for more details!
[21:47:06] <bs0> ghrrr
[21:47:21] <bs0> so mmu_man find me good jabber server for BeOS
[21:47:27] <bs0> with our without BONE
[21:47:31] <bs0> or*
[21:48:22] <bs0> mmu_man :/
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[21:49:25] <bs0> oh fyysik
[21:49:37] <fyysik> hi bs0
[21:49:40] <@mmu_man> EBUSY
[21:49:47] <bs0> fyysik could you port PTH to beos to run jabber server?
[21:50:03] <bs0> jabberd1.4.3 needs it
[21:50:38] * fyysik thinks that mmu_man or etno are much better candidates, but mmu_man is EBUSY
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[21:50:59] <fyysik> and me is EBUSY too
[21:51:04] <Fanskapet> bs0 can't you port it? :)
[21:51:10] <fyysik> or trahther B_BUSY
[21:51:11] <bs0> no
[21:51:12] <bs0> :((
[21:51:13] <fyysik> rather
[21:51:17] <bs0> i can't
[21:51:20] <bs0> ./configure:Error: decision on mandatory system headers and functions failed.
[21:51:21] <bs0> ./configure:Hint: see config.log for more details!
[21:51:31] <bs0> this is from ./confgiure of PTH
[21:52:26] <fyysik> i586-beos definitions seem missing
[21:53:36] <fyysik> all those configures are unixer dream and normal human worst nightmare
[21:54:20] <bs0> :((
[21:55:03] <@mmu_man> prob is nobody knows how to use it
[21:56:07] <tic> someone should work out something better than configure...
[21:56:29] <fyysik> configure is just frontend or top if iceberg
[21:56:57] <fyysik> under that zillion of various tools may be used in configure process
[21:56:57] <bs0> who can make friendly beos jabber server like BeBS (telnet BBS), with GUi panel etc ??
[21:57:00] <bs0> :/
[21:57:38] <fyysik> someone made it with Python/Bethon already. IIRC
[21:57:50] <bs0> wheeeeeereEEE ?
[21:57:53] <bs0> link plz
[21:58:08] <tic> ugh.
[21:58:28] <tic> I desperately need to get a new 'puter, make a _clean_ install of BeOS and try to get working on python extension modules for beos.
[21:58:52] <fyysik> bs0 - why not to do simplest search in bebits? http://bebits.com/app/3926
[21:59:00] <tic> an 06 20:59:00 <tic>	a lot of small apps, my ~/config/bin directory and completely broken ~/config in general
[21:59:10] <bs0> hermod is jabber CLIENT
[21:59:15] <bs0> and i NEED a SERVER
[21:59:25] <bs0> About Hermod: A Jabber client for BeOS.
[21:59:33] <fyysik> ahhh
[21:59:44] <fyysik> ik>	i think you need both
[21:59:44] <tic> mmu_man, you're a yT dev, do a split-up between common and user stuff in ~/config, as well as defining a application data folder for system/common/user.
[21:59:53] <fyysik> and feel lack for GUI client
[22:00:06] <bs0> i have jabber for beos
[22:00:11] <bs0> and where is server?
[22:00:20] <bs0> i want my home jabber serevr
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[22:00:59] <fyysik> try to contact  Lars Hansson . as he managed to compile Jabber client, maybe he knows how to compile server
[22:01:07] <tic> bwhaha, http://www.boingboing.net/2005/01/05/bill_gates_free_cult.html
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[22:02:09] <fyysik> http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/cmccabe/down/microsoft.jpg
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[22:12:27] <bs0> :/
[22:13:17] <Dr_Evil> still no comment for the latest www.IsComputerOn.com article :(
[22:13:26] <@mmu_man> not funny
[22:13:34] <@mmu_man> I'd really like to know who those shots are from
[22:13:40] <DaaT> yeah, me too
[22:15:13] <@mmu_man> :)
[22:15:14] <frankps> sorry dudes
[22:15:36] * mmu_man likes suspense when he knows
[22:16:22] <fyysik> bs0 - PTH 1.41 configure without problem under Bone,  but it don't help, as it configures incorrectly (for BeOS)
[22:17:54] <fyysik> Dr_Evil - maybe this is quite rare thing outside Germany?
[22:19:32] <@mmu_man> fyysik hehe
[22:19:40] <@mmu_man> well we'll start the TNT here
[22:19:50] 
[22:20:17] * fyysik wonders who need TV at all.
[22:20:23] <fyysik> not me at least
[22:20:23] <Dr_Evil> yes it's still rare everywhere
[22:21:19] <fyysik> I moved my TV (Sony) to parent's home
[22:21:41] <fyysik> 41 <fyysik>	4 years ago, i think
[22:22:59] <fyysik> maybe TV-on-demand is better idea...so digital TV might have some future with it:)
[22:23:57] <fyysik> Dr_Evil - is it encrypted format?
[22:24:16] <fyysik> like most DVDs ?
[22:25:14] <[Beta]> Dr: whats rare, DVB ?
[22:25:34] <bs0> fyysik'
[22:25:40] <Dr_Evil> it's not encrypted, but only a few % use terrestrial TV
[22:26:01] <bs0> fyysik it can't configure when it configures incorrectly
[22:26:18] <fyysik> bs0 - i meant that configure finishes without complaints
[22:26:30] <bs0> ah
[22:26:34] <bs0> and without bone ?
[22:26:42] <bs0> i really need it
[22:27:14] <fyysik> didn't try, but i think you have very little chance to port it without waste of time, if you don't use Bone/Dano/Zeta
[22:27:55] * tic agrees.
[22:28:00] <bs0> mhm
[22:28:02] <bs0> maybe
[22:28:14] <bs0> is there any solution ?
[22:30:08] <fyysik> hire some unix guru, convince hin to install BeOS with Bone - and go:)
[22:31:37] <fyysik> or learn POSIX and BeOS programming yourself
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[22:38:29] <brennanOS> Dr_Evil: what iscomputeron article are you referring too (earlier)
[22:39:16] <[Beta]> the top post, brennan. re: DVB-T
[22:44:05] <brennanOS> oh, i see
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[22:44:16] <brennanOS> Im a little punchy right now, been compiling all day long
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[22:45:22] <[Beta]> oh?
[22:45:34] <brennanOS> What is DVB-T?
[22:45:59] <[Beta]> digital video broadcasting, *shrugs about the T, television(?)
[22:46:19] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/module.c:
[22:46:19] <CIA-6> recurse_directory() is no longer part of the build if SUPPORT_BOOTFS is
[22:46:19] <CIA-6> not defined. It will now also skip about all entries called "boot" (to
[22:46:19] <CIA-6> not load the boot modules again).
[22:46:19] <CIA-6> The path of preloaded images is now hacked together so that the module
[22:46:19] <CIA-6> image hash contains the correct path in case the images get replaced
[22:46:21] <CIA-6> while being used.
[22:47:13] <brennanOS> Is it supposed to be a big deal?
[22:49:20] <@mmu_man> T = terrestrial
[22:49:40] <@mmu_man> (as op to Sat
[22:50:49] <[Beta]> isnt DVB the same, whatever medium it comes on ?
[22:51:06] * [Beta] wouldnt have a clue.
[22:52:14] <tic> dunno,maybe it's a different antenna connector on the card? :P
[22:52:24] <[Beta]> :p
[22:52:26] <tic> axeld is making progress.. what kind of progress is the app_server team making?
[22:53:07] <brennanOS> Ive been compiling a linux from scratch system for most of the last two days
[22:53:14] <brennanOS> ugg... its getting a little tedious
[22:53:24] <tic> uh, why bother when there's Debian?
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[22:53:57] <brennanOS> tic: well... to learn of course
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[22:54:00] <[Beta]> I guess the only difference is encryption - I'd have to have a tuner in this pc - the sky box does the decoding :/
[22:54:09] <[Beta]> which distro ?
[22:54:17] <tic> brennanOS, aha. that's a good reason.
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[22:54:29] <tic> brennanOS, otherwise, for production use, I'd not mess with it, if I were you. :)
[22:54:53] <brennanOS> tic: I figure I will do my Linux kernel/system coding experiments on a Linux system that I assembled myself
[22:55:03] <tic> brennanOS, yah.
[22:55:04] <brennanOS> tic: yeah, I know... I use Suse otherwise
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[22:55:13] <brennanOS> just got 9.2... it is pretty nice
[22:55:19] <brennanOS> as far as Linux goes
[22:55:33] <brennanOS> and I just got FreeBSD 5.2, which is ok too
[22:55:42] <tic> okay.
[22:55:44] * tic prefers deb
[22:55:56] <brennanOS> of course, since I use the same desktop environments on both, they are almost identical
[22:56:27] <brennanOS> though I have found FreeBSD to be overall snappier than any Linux distro Ive used
[22:58:19] <w-ber> ah, I haven't participated in a distribution war today. I better do it now
[22:58:20] <w-ber> Slackware!
[22:58:30] <brennanOS> heh
[22:58:41] <brennanOS> I cant participate because I genuinely dont care
[22:58:54] <brennanOS> There just isnt enough of a difference to agrue about it
[22:59:04] <brennanOS> whatever agrue means ;)
[22:59:23] <brennanOS> an 06 21:59:23 <brennanOS>	a grue... ZORK
[22:59:41] <brennanOS> my elven blade is glowing brightly
[22:59:48] <@mmu_man> SLACKWARE!
[22:59:52] <w-ber> comparing Slackware and Debian, for example, is like comparing FreeBSD and CP/M
[23:01:54] <brennanOS> w-ber: umm... sure it is
[23:02:28] <w-ber> hey, I'm just trying to keep the war going :)
[23:02:31] <brennanOS> heh
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[23:02:35] <brennanOS> it was a good shot
[23:02:55] <brennanOS> but you needed to work in some l33t typing and such into it
[23:03:42] <liquidboy> have you guyes used ubuntu?
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[23:04:27] * fyysik wonders what about MS lovers are arguing. Which service pack is better?
[23:04:40] *** nielx has joined #haiku
[23:04:44] <fyysik> or which theme in XP?
[23:04:53] <w-ber> fyysik: I think they argue whether to use Windows XP Home or Pro
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[23:05:19] <mumu25> winrar vs. windows xp unzip vs. winzip
[23:05:29] <mumu25> windows xp cd-buring vs. nero
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[23:05:41] <w-ber> WMP vs. Winamp
[23:05:44] *** D14n4 has left #haiku
[23:05:50] <mumu25> exactly :)
[23:06:04] <tic> Windows XP Homer?
[23:06:04] <mumu25> hehe, notepad vs. winword
[23:06:08] <tic> Eddie!
[23:06:10] <w-ber> let's have an editor war next
[23:06:10] <@mmu_man> not WMP
[23:06:11] <w-ber> ViM!
[23:06:11] *** Sk8 has joined #haiku
[23:06:14] <@mmu_man> WiMP
[23:06:16] *** Sk8 has left #haiku
[23:06:59] <fyysik> let's bring native KDE and GNOME to windoze!
[23:07:11] * liquidboy laughs - notepad is obviously the best :P
[23:07:12] <@geist> AMIGA FOREVA
[23:07:15] <fyysik> to start real wars
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[23:07:34] <tic> EDIT.COM!
[23:07:41] <tic> (from DOS 7.x)
[23:07:43] <AnEvilYak> screw edit, gimme edlin
[23:07:51] <@mmu_man> COPY CON
[23:07:53] <tic> yay edlin :)
[23:07:54] <tic> hahaha
[23:07:58] <AnEvilYak> mmu_man: or that.
[23:07:59] <@geist> DEBUG
[23:08:05] <AnEvilYak> the winner is geist.
[23:08:22] <tic> obviously. difficult to do it any worse than that.
[23:08:37] <tic> although, if you use COPY CON you need to be correct on the first try.
[23:08:40] <tic> tedious when writing apps :P
[23:08:46] <tic> need to have everything carefully spec'd before
[23:09:13] <@geist> brings back memories of my old monochrome monitor next to the vga
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[23:09:21] <tic> Hercules?
[23:09:23] <@geist> ist>	i keep meaning to write a mono driver for newos
[23:09:35] <tic> I think m_eiman has a Hercules driver for BeOS. Dunno how to write into 0x80000 though.
[23:09:47] <@geist> it's pretty easy. you map memory
[23:09:48] <@geist> BOOM
[23:09:49] <tic> (or was that 0xB000... and B800... being color?)
[23:09:51] <nielx> I think my mind's going to explode
[23:09:54] <tic> nielx, why?
[23:10:03] <nielx> these stupid mozilla build problems
[23:10:11] <tic> geist, true.  but in BeOS, as a user-space app.  or perhaps you just play with ioctl's
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[23:10:28] <@geist> yeah but you would write a simple driver for it
[23:10:37] <@geist> maybe just one ioctl that maps a copy into your address space
[23:10:55] <tic> can you easily do that? or would you use an area?
[23:11:02] <@geist> that's what I mean
[23:11:08] <tic> Aha.
[23:11:11] <tic> I'm with you :)
[23:11:20] <tic> anyone here played with Dothans?
[23:12:09] <@mmu_man> C:\Windows\Rundll32.exe krnl386.exe,exitkernel
[23:12:13] <brennanOS> Pico!
[23:12:15] <tic> hahaha
[23:12:16] <brennanOS> sorry, Im late
[23:12:20] <tic> bleh, pico suu
[23:12:26] <brennanOS> hehehe
[23:12:30] <tic> by the way guys, did I show you an idea I had for a case?
[23:12:31] <tic> http://dundermusen.mine.nu/dump/pics/case-drawing.png
[23:12:34] <@mmu_man> where did I put that hang script
[23:12:52] <brennanOS> I use 'whatever works using whatever is present'
[23:13:47] <@geist> oh wow didn't know you could make specific calls with rundll
[23:14:01] <@mmu_man> was something like echo "a\ncli\njmp 100\n" | DEBUG
[23:14:21] <@mmu_man> geist yeah, quite ugly stuff
[23:14:24] <@mmu_man> there is a nice one
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[23:14:54] <@mmu_man> rundll32.exe shell32.dll,SHExitWindowsEx [optional number in hex]
[23:15:03] <@mmu_man> rem EWX_LOGOFF         0
[23:15:03] <@mmu_man> rem EWX_SHUTDOWN       1
[23:15:04] <@mmu_man> rem EWX_REBOOT         2
[23:15:04] <@mmu_man> rem EWX_FORCE          4
[23:15:05] <@mmu_man> rem EWX_POWEROFF       8
[23:15:37] <@mmu_man> the fastest way to reboot from win98
[23:16:02] <tic> so.. ducktales, or sleep?
[23:16:05] * tic ponders
[23:16:08] <dipp> the fastest way to reboot it is to start it
[23:16:11] <slaad> Code, tic!
[23:16:25] <@mmu_man> rundll32.exe shell32.dll,SHExitWindowsEx 6
[23:16:33] <tic> slaad, it's 23:18, and I already did 4 hours of coding yesterday with my sore wrist :/
[23:16:53] <tic> slaad, did -you- see this one? http://dundermusen.mine.nu/dump/pics/case-drawing.png
[23:17:18] <slaad> Cases aren't my thing, tic
[23:17:22] * slaad points to his big ATX case
[23:17:26] <slaad> Coding on what?
[23:17:37] <tic> Lightning, Queries at the speed of lightning! :P
[23:18:05] <tic> slaad, I've got a huge atx case as well, but I'm planning my next computer. It'll be 25x25 and ~15 cm high.
[23:18:07] <slaad> Eehhh?
[23:18:14] <tic> an 06 22:18:14 <tic>	an app for Dane / TuneTracker.
[23:18:18] <slaad> Ahh.
[23:18:26] <tic> music search mohicky
[23:18:32] <slaad> Small cases and components are too expensive. I just put them under a table.
[23:18:51] <tic> well, in this case, size is a side-effect of the components I've chosen.
[23:19:39] <slaad> But still, $$$
[23:19:52] <tic> Yeah, but you could build that kind of computer from standard components, really.
[23:20:00] <tic> an 06 22:20:00 <tic>	a micro-atx mobo isn't more expensive than a standard.
[23:21:06] <slaad> I thought they were?
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[23:21:23] <tic> slaad, nopes.  a micro-atx is just a regular atx mobo minus 1-2 pci slots.
[23:21:30] <tic> an 06 22:21:30 <tic>	a mini-itx mobo, however, is expensive.
[23:21:37] <slaad> Ah, I was thinking mini.
[23:21:43] <tic> now, what I'm getting is a Pentium M-mobo, so it'll actually still be expensive. :P
[23:21:45] <dipp> tic: you should have continued your wearable computer project :)
[23:21:51] <slaad> I've already upgraded my computer for the once in the last 5 years ;)
[23:21:53] <tic> dipp, I will, but not right now.
[23:21:59] <dipp> ah :)
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[23:22:25] <tic> I'm at a dual celeron 533, slaad, so I'd like something faster.  although the bigger problem is that it crashes on shutdown. :/
[23:23:05] <tic> going to use a clip-on power supply as well, so that doesn't take up any place, either.
[23:23:14] <tic> and something like this for cooling: http://212.75.85.247/ProductDetail.asp?UID={45455142-2A6D-49B1-82E3-087AE786224A}&artnr=6308190
[23:23:33] <tic> and a huge 120 mm-fan. :)
[23:23:46] <slaad> Ahh. I upgraded uh... 6 months back? To a uh... XP 2600 or something.
[23:23:48] <tic> Wonder if I could run it at ~5V or so.
[23:23:51] <tic> bah!
[23:23:58] <tic> lamer!  now you're going to write inefficient code!
[23:24:15] <tic> just look at that web-client thingy -- using web for applications! humbug, I say
[23:24:18] <slaad> You haven't said anything yet about my code :P
[23:24:30] <slaad> The web client kicks ass!
[23:24:32] <tic> HUMBUG!
[23:24:34] <tic> ;)
[23:24:51] <tic> haven't checked it out yet, my system is a mess so I can't get RH working.
[23:24:54] <slaad> You're just jealous :P
[23:25:00] <slaad> Why won't RH work?
[23:25:01] <tic> yeah, that's in fact the problem.
[23:25:02] <tic> dunno.
[23:25:05] <slaad> It'll work on Apache too.
[23:25:36] <tic> okay.. but there's even a lesser chance of me downloading apache and installing. my system is severely broken from messing around with GG in ~/config and such; I need to re-install everything.
[23:25:55] <tic> so in a few months, I'll probably build this box and install the latest version of Zeta on it.
[23:26:17] <tic> and it'll be a really really quiet system. yum..
[23:26:17] <slaad> GG?
[23:26:19] <tic> geekgadgets.
[23:26:22] <slaad> Ah
[23:26:46] <slaad> Just nuke ~/config ;)
[23:27:05] <tic> by the way, mr. electronics dude, if a fan can't be started up at 3V, think there's still a chance I could spin it up at 12V and gradually lower the voltage until I reach 3V?
[23:27:22] <slaad> Why won't it spin at 3V?
[23:27:22] <tic> yeah, nuking ~/config sounds like a really clever idea, think I'll do that right now.
[23:27:30] <tic> I don't know.  It's just a hypothetical fan.
[23:27:33] <tic> most fans can't, actually.
[23:27:33] <slaad> Is it a DC fan? Or A PWM?
[23:27:41] <fyysik> for me it stops around 5V
[23:27:54] <tic> It'll be a DC fan, I think.
[23:27:56] <tic> 22:27:56 <tic>	2 pins.
[23:27:58] <fyysik> so running at 7
[23:28:07] <slaad> Doesn't mean it's DC, tic ;)
[23:28:27] <tic> slaad, don't know really.  A standard PC case fan, 120 mm, with a 3-pin connector.
[23:28:43] <slaad> Just make sure you don't go outside the voltage range for the fan.
[23:29:19] <tic> no, I won't go above it, but I'm wondering if I could go lower than the voltage at which it won't start, if I start it up on a higher voltage. are you with me?
[23:29:28] <slaad> Yeah, should be okay.
[23:30:04] <tic> Like, it probably won't spin up at X volt, but do you think it'll keep on spinning if I start it up at 12V and then lower to X volt? That's basically the question I'm asking.
[23:30:11] <tic> (for X = ~3 or so)
[23:30:33] <slaad> Hrm, not sure, I don't do motors :)
[23:30:38] <tic> m'kay.
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[23:30:45] <slaad> I do know that motors take 7x the current to start.
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[23:31:32] <tic> Ahh.  But hey, then the problem is probably solved.
[23:31:42] <slaad> How so?
[23:31:43] <tic> I = U/R and all.
[23:31:47] <slaad> U?
[23:31:49] <tic> lower the voltage => not enough current.
[23:32:00] <tic> yeah.  U = RI? that familiar with you, mr  engineer? :P
[23:32:06] <slaad> We use V :P
[23:32:10] <tic> Ahh.
[23:32:14] <tic> so, I = V/R then.
[23:32:17] <slaad> It'd be more of a case of P=I^2R
[23:32:26] <tic> whatever, really :)
[23:32:29] <slaad> Hehe :)
[23:32:33] <tic> you said they take 7x the current to start, right?
[23:32:43] <tic> and if you lower the voltage, you have less current to boot.
[23:32:46] <slaad> There abouts.
[23:32:48] *** illissius is now known as illissius[sleep]
[23:33:02] <tic> thus, you could start it up at 12V or whatever, and then just lower the current when it's started spinning.
[23:33:10] <tic> some internal really high resistance, one might think.
[23:33:13] <@mmu_man> http://turnofftheinternet.com just pull the plug
[23:33:14] <tic> horray! then I'll do just that.
[23:33:34] <slaad> You don't have a current source though, tic, you have a voltage source :P
[23:33:42] <slaad> Yeah, inductance, actually.
[23:34:18] <tic> slaad, yes, I have a voltage source.  But it'll end up being the same thing.
[23:34:59] <tic> now, the prolem is that I need to build something that kicks in a resistance a couple of seconds after power-on.
[23:35:12] <tic> A timer and some kind of switch thingy.  or a transistor?
[23:35:19] <tic> This is your area!
[23:35:30] <slaad> No it's not! This is analog. Bah!
[23:35:52] <tic> it's not, really..
[23:36:08] <tic> first, you have 12V into a circuit, and after N seconds you want to lower it to 3V
[23:36:12] <@mmu_man> zz
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[23:36:18] <tic> shouldn't that be really easy to do?
[23:36:41] <tic> "I love it when things go KABLOI!"
[23:36:42] <slaad> See, I'd suggest having an XV circuit and using a charge pumpo.
[23:36:48] <slaad> Err.. charge pump.
[23:36:51] <tic> what's an XV circuit?
[23:36:59] <tic> and a charge pump = conductance?
[23:37:00] <slaad> X being a number.
[23:37:02] <tic> aha.
[23:37:11] <slaad> Charge pump = cap and diode.
[23:37:13] <tic> err, right.
[23:37:16] <tic> that's what I meant. :P
[23:37:24] <tic> but wouldn't I want an inverse cap?
[23:37:29] <tic> like, start at 12V and then lower to 3?
[23:37:32] <tic> instead of gradually rising.
[23:37:46] <tic> (or am I missing something?)
[23:38:09] <fyysik> something made from Zener diode, elyt cpacaitor and resistor
[23:38:30] <tic> yeah, but which way would I want the current to go?
[23:38:43] <tic> (what's the name of voltage?  current = ampere, voltage =  ?
[23:38:44] <tic> )
[23:39:11] <Dr_Evil> volt
[23:39:22] <tic> okay..
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[23:39:55] <Dr_Evil> or volts in plural
[23:40:10] <tic> tension/voltage
[23:40:23] <fyysik> ohh, no. 1 transistor, one capacitor and one resistor is almost enough
[23:40:31] <tic> fyysik, how?
[23:40:32] <Dr_Evil> ihh not tension
[23:40:43] <tic> voltage then.
[23:40:48] 
[23:40:50] <fyysik> initially transistor is full open, then it closes with when capacitor charges
[23:41:07] <tic> fyysik, aha.  and when it closes it uses the other line w/ the resistor?
[23:41:37] <fyysik> trick is to choose transistor mode to set it half-closed with given motor
[23:41:47] * Dr_Evil is electrical engineer
[23:41:57] <tic> Dr_Evil, heh, I'm just going from what I see.
[23:42:03] <tic> err, what my book tells me
[23:42:21] <tic> fyysik, I'm just going to use a standard PC fan.
[23:42:26] <slaad> Half-closed? Active mode, fyysik?
[23:42:32] <fyysik> you put transistor in two ways. one - between motor and 12 V and second - in parallel to motor and then resistor to 12 V
[23:42:46] <Dr_Evil> what do you want to do?
[23:42:50] <fyysik> slaad - yeah. not very economic, but simplest
[23:43:11] <tic> Dr_Evil, I want to start the fan at 12V, and then go down to 3V or so after that.  If I just give it 3V at start, it won't be enough for it to  start spinning.
[23:43:33] <tic> fyysik, thanks! I'll keep that in mnd.
[23:43:49] <tic> (3V being the lowest possible voltage the fan can still spin around at)
[23:43:52] <Dr_Evil> well, then use a single series resistor, and a large electrolytic capacitor in parallel to the resistor
[23:43:54] <tic> ((i.e., I don't knowif it's 3V)
[23:44:19] <Dr_Evil> what current does your fan have at 3 volt?
[23:44:43] <tic> don't know, it's just a hypothetical generic 120 mm PC fan.  I'll check that up when I buy it.
[23:45:59] <tic> Hm, I've kinda forgotten how caps work.  Won't I just get a break at first, and thus the current going through the resistor (i.e., a lower voltage), and then when  the cap's filled, it'll go through straight through (i.e., higher voltage?)
[23:46:10] <Dr_Evil> well, what you can do is, connect fan negative pole to GND, connect positive fan pole to resitor and to negative capacitor pole
[23:46:34] <Dr_Evil> connect other resitor pole to 12 V, and connect positive capactor pole to 12 V
[23:47:07] <Dr_Evil> no, high current will flow in the beginning while the capactor is charged
[23:47:22] <Dr_Evil> when it's full, it will be passive, and restor will limit current
[23:48:22] <tic> aha, I thought caps were breaks in DC in the beginning.
[23:49:19] <Dr_Evil> don't know your exact specifics, but I would try a 60 Ohm 1 Watt resistor, and a 10000 uF 16 Volt capacitor
[23:50:07] <tic> I have a book here on physics, so I can just look up how to calculate the values for the caps when I actually know.  Thanks for the scheme!
[23:50:50] <tic> This is the one: http://www.overclockers.se/catalog/images/new/adda120mm.JPG
[23:50:57] <tic> 0.09A@12V
[23:51:05] <tic> ~1W
[23:51:15] <Dr_Evil> 90 mA, i was assuming 125
[23:51:22] <Dr_Evil> well, you need to try anyway
[23:51:29] <tic> yeah.
[23:51:38] <tic> it's ultimately not the actual voltage level, it's rather the noise level.
[23:51:54] <tic> but if I can run it at a lower voltage than possible at startup, it'll probably be enough.
[23:52:24] <tic> most fans can't be started at lower than 7V or so, so if I can get it running at ~3-5V it'll be good enough, I suppose.
[23:52:57] <tic> won't push much air at that speed, but the system doesn't need much cooling anyway
[23:54:52] <slaad> You should just put ice cubes in the case. That's uber quiet ;)
[23:55:47] <tic> yeah. or a plastic bag w/ water in it.
[23:55:51] <fyysik> my  12 cm fan in power supply is absolutely silent
[23:55:51] <slaad> Hehe
[23:56:02] <tic> fyysik, I'll only have one fan in the whole case, though.
[23:56:12] <tic> (including power supply and cpu)
[23:56:15] <tic> ((and graphics))
[23:56:19] <fyysik> so wondering why your is so noisy
[23:56:25] <tic> it's not.
[23:56:29] <tic> it's rated 16dB at 12V
[23:56:48] <fyysik> only thing i hear this is undoftunate Slot1 cooler
[23:56:49] <tic> but I don't need even that much air-flow.  it's enough that something just waves a bit in the case from time to time.
[23:57:19] <fyysik> "unfortunate"





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