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[16:29:25] <@mahlzeit> Methe!
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[16:48:18] <Methe> mahlzeit !
[16:50:10] <Methe> hey mahlzeit u know what
[16:50:14] <Methe> tomorrow morning
[16:50:18] <Methe> I go to a school
[16:50:32] <Methe> and show them "Unforgiven"  by Clint Eastwood
[16:50:37] <Methe> then I got to manage a debate on it
[16:50:41] <Methe> I'm scared :/
[16:50:50] <@mahlzeit> sounds like fun!
[16:51:06] <JBurton> hmmm Unforgiven is the west movie ?
[16:51:21] <Methe> yup
[16:51:24] <JBurton> ah ok
[16:51:26] <Methe> fun probably
[16:51:28] <JBurton> nice movie
[16:51:30] <Methe> but scaring
[16:51:36] <JBurton> eheh
[16:51:38] <JBurton> yeah
[16:51:43] <Methe> I dont wantto look like a fool having nothing to say
[16:52:52] <@mahlzeit> just talk about how cool clint is
[16:53:03] <Methe> ROFL!
[16:53:08] <JBurton> hey Clint is Clint
[16:53:17] <JBurton> what is to say about him ?
[16:53:18] <Methe> "hey u see this guys is Clint. So he is cool."
[16:53:22] <Methe> this sentence
[16:53:28] <Methe> must be 1h30long
[16:53:35] <JBurton> yeah
[16:53:38] <JBurton> well
[16:53:40] <@mahlzeit> speak slowly :-)
[16:53:53] <JBurton> just speak v....e....r.....y...........s.....l......o.....w......l......y......
[16:54:00] <JBurton> ;P
[16:54:01] <Methe> suuuuuuure
[16:54:12] <Methe> thx for advices and reconfort dudes :DDDD
[16:54:42] <@mahlzeit> actually, time flies on those things -- just make sure the audience does all the talking
[16:54:51] <JBurton> well you can talk about the fact that this guy couldn't even keep his hand still... and after he became angry he killed everyone with little effort
[16:55:18] <Methe> mahlzeit: that's indeed the trick
[16:55:22] <JBurton> or well that that movie won some awards :P
[16:55:26] <Methe> but gotta find out how to do it
[16:55:34] <Methe> ahah JBurton
[16:55:37] <@mahlzeit> what is the theme of the movie?
[16:55:38] <|pst|> methe: Why do you show them this movie?
[16:55:48] <JBurton> mahlzeit I just told you :P
[16:55:57] <JBurton> "this guy couldn't even keep his hand still... and after he became angry he killed everyone with little effort"
[16:55:58] <Methe> |pst| for a couple of reasons
[16:56:00] <@mahlzeit> shaking hands?
[16:56:03] <Methe> 13 15:56:03 <Methe>	1 - The theme
[16:56:15] <Methe> college like this theme thesesdays here (violence)
[16:56:16] <@mahlzeit> JBurton: that's not a theme ;-)
[16:56:16] <JBurton> ahah
[16:56:19] <Methe> 2 - It's a western
[16:56:27] <Methe> so u can talk about genre
[16:56:32] <Methe> and show how u can trick it
[16:56:34] <|pst|> 2 is not exactly a reason on it's own...
[16:56:37] <JBurton> hm the musical Theme ?
[16:56:39] <Methe> it is
[16:56:43] <@mahlzeit> the theme isn't really violence
[16:56:48] <Methe> when u want to show cinematography
[16:56:49] <JBurton> or the movie Theme?
[16:57:04] <JBurton> sorry can't understand those technical english words :P
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[16:57:20] <@mahlzeit> JBurton: music theme is called music score
[16:57:22] <Methe> when u want to show how a movie is built and done
[16:57:33] <JBurton> so the theme is the theme
[16:57:34] <JBurton> :P
[16:57:34] <Methe> it's easier to take something everyone has a vague idea of
[16:57:36] <Methe> in that case
[16:57:38] <Methe> the>	the western
[16:57:51] <JBurton> "tema" in italian
[16:57:56] <JBurton> ok thanks mahlzeit
[16:57:58] * Methe pets JBurton
[16:58:02] <|pst|> t|>	t will be difficult if you want to talk about social aspects (violence) and cinematic aspects at once.
[16:58:18] <JBurton> lol Methe thanks
[16:58:22] <Methe> I dont think so. why would u say that ?
[16:59:02] <Methe> JBurton but I made a mistake. cinematography isn't what I meant. it's litteral translation from french but in english it means only the picture, frame, etc
[17:00:07] <Methe> so |pst| what makes u think that ?
[17:00:35] <|pst|> These are completely different aspects of a film...
[17:00:56] <Methe> well
[17:01:09] <Methe> the>	the movie is anti violent
[17:01:12] <Methe> in its speech
[17:01:21] <Methe> and it uses cinema tricks to show that
[17:01:21] <|pst|> "What's the psychic of that guy going mad, why does he try to kill people to solve his problems and which filter does the director choose to express it?"
[17:01:25] * Methe fights with english
[17:01:28] <|pst|> sounds a bit weird this way.
[17:01:38] <Methe> yes
[17:01:42] <Methe> but if u say
[17:01:51] <@mahlzeit> actually, the look of a movie often enhances the theme
[17:02:04] <@mahlzeit> often, usage of colors and lenses changes with the story
[17:02:10] <Methe> "This guy is so dark inside that he never gets light on it's face but when he works as a farmer".
[17:02:11] <@mahlzeit> (and wardrobe)
[17:02:12] <Methe> then it works
[17:03:51] <Dr3w> has anyone ever done an inplace upgrade of Solaris 2.6, 7 or 8 to Solaris 9?
[17:04:07] <Dr3w> ...help if I ask in the right channel :)
[17:04:22] * Methe thought it was #cinema here
[17:04:55] <|pst|> Yes, thought so, too.
[17:05:21] <|pst|> Next question: What's the motivation of the school to let you show the film?
[17:05:29] <|pst|> Is this a special course about movies?
[17:05:47] <Methe> nope
[17:05:51] <Methe> I proposed my stuff
[17:05:55] <Methe> and they agreed
[17:05:59] <Methe> got 3 schools to go to
[17:06:08] <Methe> they seem to like the idea
[17:06:43] <|pst|> I guess the schools think more about the social aspects. Not the technical aspects.
[17:06:56] <Methe> actual
[17:06:58] <Methe> we asked them
[17:07:07] <Methe> what part they prefered us to develop the most
[17:07:16] <Methe> tomorrow's school said
[17:07:19] <Methe> "technical"
[17:07:20] <Methe> :/
[17:07:42] <Methe> why u so intrested |pst| ? :D
[17:08:18] <|pst|> I would focus on one of them and use the other. So either talk about the social aspects and add some info about how the director tries to transport them or talk about movie techniques and how they express the motivations, feelings and other social aspects of the movie.
[17:08:50] <|pst|> To answer your question, I need to know your motivation to do that and the motivation of the school...
[17:09:47] <|pst|> If the school expects something about the social aspects of violence and you focus on the elegant way to fade out when Clint is shooting someone, you might be thrown out before th 1.5h are over :-)
[17:10:35] <Methe> well
[17:10:43] <@mahlzeit> unless you can show the fade is a metaphor for one of the social aspects
[17:10:47] <@mahlzeit> :-)
[17:10:48] <Methe> I asked them how they would prefer the stuff to be
[17:10:58] <Methe> but that's not my worry
[17:11:12] <Methe> my worry is. Will I be able to make that stuff look interesting to kids
[17:11:35] <Methe> and will I be able to talk about it so they keep interested during 1h30
[17:13:10] <|pst|> If you want to include talk about technic in your "speech", you will need to show examples... no one remembers much about that from the movie they have just watched.
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[17:13:30] <|pst|> Very important: you will have to tell them what they have to look for before showing the movie.
[17:13:59] <|pst|> Half of them will just watch anyways, but maybe some of them will remember some effects :-)
[17:14:11] <Methe> I dont agree
[17:14:28] <Methe> someone has to watch a movie on its own
[17:14:33] <Methe> without something to look at
[17:14:37] <Methe> they have to be free
[17:14:43] <Methe> see stuffs by themselves
[17:14:45] <Methe> or not
[17:14:56] <CIA-6> zooey * buildtools/gcc/gcc/invoke.texi: - added missing documentation for --relative-path-errors option.
[17:15:00] <Methe> and of course when u speak with examples u show it
[17:17:13] <CIA-6> zooey * buildtools/gcc/gcc/config/i386/beos-elf.h:
[17:17:13] <CIA-6> -6>	- added --no-undefined to the specs so that we can drop a patch that changed
[17:17:13] <CIA-6> ld to use this as default.
[17:17:27] <@mahlzeit> it>	i know the answer! first show the movie, then show the movie again with director's comments :-)
[17:17:39] <JBurton> ahahah
[17:17:48] * Methe pets mahlzeit
[17:18:10] <Methe> well there's no comment available on this one
[17:18:18] <Methe> anyway
[17:18:25] <Methe> u'll get big angry eyes from teachers :D
[17:18:40] <@mahlzeit> ask clint to come over and provide live commentary
[17:18:46] <JBurton> lol
[17:18:48] <Methe> suuuuure
[17:18:53] <Methe> we clearly see
[17:18:57] <Methe> the>	the guy who live in amsterdam
[17:19:06] <Methe> he>	he got a lot of imagination
[17:19:18] <Methe> :DDd
[17:19:26] <@mahlzeit> who lives in amsterdam?
[17:19:36] * Methe corrects
[17:19:39] <Methe> netherlands
[17:19:43] <@mahlzeit> lol
[17:19:54] <@mahlzeit> that's not the same, you know -- you're like an american ;-)
[17:20:11] <Methe> not that much plz
[17:20:24] <Methe> :/
[17:20:26] <Methe> ANYWAY
[17:20:33] <Methe> im sc8red
[17:20:34] <Methe> :D
[17:20:36] <@mahlzeit> americans always think the netherlands is the capital of amsterdam
[17:20:42] <Methe> rofl
[17:20:46] <Methe> really ?
[17:20:58] <|pst|> mahlzeit: And it's next to Afghanistan.
[17:21:13] <Methe> no
[17:21:18] <Methe> there's switzerland in between
[17:21:23] <Methe> no common frontier
[17:22:21] <@mahlzeit> anyway, i think public speaking is fun, nothing to be scared of
[17:22:37] <Methe> I love kids
[17:22:46] <Methe> im not afraid of publics sspeechs
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[17:22:51] <Methe> but remains
[17:22:56] <Methe> gotta be interesting
[17:23:08] <@mahlzeit> only way to find out is to do it ;-)
[17:23:14] <Methe> lol
[17:23:18] <Methe> got no choice now anyway
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[17:51:51] <JBurton> bye all
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[18:28:34] <CIA-6> zooey * buildtools/binutils/ld/lexsup.c:
[18:28:34] <CIA-6> -6>	- we no longer need to hard-patch ld to not allow undefined symbols in
[18:28:34] <CIA-6> objects, as we now do this via gcc-specs.
[18:30:27] <CIA-6> zooey * buildtools/binutils/ld/ldmain.c:
[18:30:27] <CIA-6> -6>	- we no longer hard-patch ld to not use relocation combination (combreloc),
[18:30:27] <CIA-6> as the default (using it) seems to generate slightly smaller results and
[18:30:27] <CIA-6> not break anything.
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[18:41:33] <Heeee> Is haiku status page on haiku-os.org correct?
[18:42:14] <Heeee> i visit several times the web & it seems not to advance i know
[18:42:51] <@mahlzeit> it's probably out of date
[18:42:58] <tic> extremely out of date
[18:43:06] <tic> the developers focus on coding, not updating the web site.
[18:43:09] <tic> sadly. :)
[18:43:16] <tic> you can look at the CIA web.
[18:43:27] <tic> Heeee, http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/OpenBeOS
[18:43:27] <Heeee> ahh, ok thanks
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[18:45:00] <Heeee> but how is the status... Over how time we will wait for a haiku's beta?
[18:45:04] <Dr3w> F.E.A.R.
[18:45:19] <tic> Heeee, when it's done, I suppose.
[18:45:29] <tic> Heeee, I mean, what's a "1.0", anyway?
[18:45:44] <tic> Heeee, software is always evolving.  Parts of it are stable right now, like Mail Daemon Replacement-3.0
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[18:45:54] <@mahlzeit> well, in this case, 1.0 would be a clone of beos r5 :-)
[18:46:46] <tic> true.
[18:47:18] <tic> heh.  Okay, but generally, a Beta of Haiku will be difficult because of its nature - MMOD ;)
[18:47:51] <Heeee> then i can replace some things from haiku to r5 to probe
[18:47:53] <@mahlzeit> what is mmod?
[18:49:29] <w-ber> sounds a bit like MMORPG
[18:49:59] <Heeee> i read in some plate that network team will change their net stack to another best
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[18:50:10] <_jasper_> hi
[18:50:12] <tic> massive multiplayer online development. :)
[18:50:23] <tic> should be a P there as well, for paralell
[18:50:41] <tic> "Massive Parallel Multiplayer Online Development Model"? MPMODM
[18:50:43] <Heeee> its mean that their work is now deprecated+
[18:50:44] <Heeee> ?
[18:51:01] <tic> depends. a stack is nice to have.
[18:51:13] <w-ber> I'd love to develope the Haiku kernel, but it'll take a year or two before I feel I know enough to do so and then it'll be too late :/
[18:51:16] <@mahlzeit> tic: you should add an U for Uncoordinated and E for Endless ;-)
[18:51:42] <dipp> w-ber: it is never too late
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[18:52:07] <w-ber> dipp: I hope you're right
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[18:52:51] <dipp> Since this is open source, development will continue for quite some time ahead :)
[18:53:43] <w-ber> all the "interesting" stuff is happening now, in the pioneering phase :)
[18:53:55] <w-ber> later it'll just be new drivers and algorithm tuning
[18:55:28] <Heeee> i want to do a router with my old p133 & i think that i can test haiku's netstack but i dont know real status of rtl drivers
[18:56:18] <@mahlzeit> yeah i think they want to use the new bsd stack
[18:56:20] <Heeee> do you think that it will stable enought to do that work?
[18:56:43] <Heeee> over haiku? or orver freebsd?
[18:56:44] <@mahlzeit> the current network stack isn't really stable as far as i know
[18:57:11] <@mahlzeit> it>	i understood that _maybe_ they want to port the bsd stack to haiku
[18:57:23] <@mahlzeit> since the bsd stack is being rewritten
[18:57:56] <@mahlzeit> but i'm no expert on this
[18:58:31] <Heeee> then there is a hibrid between 2 netstacks on haiku now?
[18:58:57] <Dr3w> I think there should be code bounties.
[18:59:38] 
[18:59:44] <@mahlzeit> the current stack was written by someone who left the project before it was finished, then others fixed it up a little
[19:01:19] <Heeee> then there are less people working on new netstack for haiku...
[19:01:39] <@mahlzeit> there are only a few people working on haiku in total
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[19:01:53] <Heeee> can i replace haiku's netstack by zeta's ones?
[19:02:09] <Heeee> how many people?
[19:02:46] <Heeee> i want to join haiku's develop but i need more experience coding for beos
[19:03:03] <@mahlzeit> 20-30 parttime volunteers
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[19:07:03] <Heeee> if i want to contribute to code for haiku, what team need more help now?
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[19:07:58] <Heeee> i can learn to write something
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[19:08:29] <@mahlzeit> what area of the system are you interested in most?
[19:08:51] <phoudoin> hi guys
[19:09:01] <@mahlzeit> speaking of the net team :-)
[19:09:13] <Heeee> mmm, i think that app_server is very interesting but quite dificult
[19:09:20] * phoudoin runs to hide behind a rock...
[19:09:22] <@mahlzeit> Heeee: ask phoudoin about the net stack :-)
[19:09:27] <Heeee> ok
[19:09:40] <phoudoin> Heeee: go
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[19:16:33] <fyysik> hi
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[19:16:54] <MikeW> oh man. so python developers love to break existing code then?
[19:16:56] <phoudoin> hi fyysik
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[19:20:37] <joppefan> hmm
[19:21:04] <joppefan> an>	a little question about FireFox 0.9.3 i found on BeBits... why doesnt it start ?...
[19:21:19] <fyysik> joppefan - fix found i hope
[19:21:40] <fyysik> multithreading/ports/race problem
[19:21:55] <fyysik> tqh is now preparing proper version with new gcc
[19:22:16] <fyysik> use latest Mozilla until FF is ready
[19:22:17] <joppefan> okey ... because i have rebooted the computer ... downloaded the empty profile ... nothing works..=) where can i find the newest working firefox ?
[19:22:27] <joppefan> okey
[19:22:49] <fyysik> FF is still in preparation. Download manager needs fixing
[19:23:23] <joppefan> ahh
[19:24:38] <joppefan> hmm well ..is there anyone working on USB 2 for beos ?...
[19:24:55] <joppefan> i have 0.5 TB of unused space =)
[19:25:24] <BePage_2> yT?
[19:25:25] <w-ber> USB disk?
[19:25:31] <joppefan> USB disk yes..
[19:25:37] <fyysik> heh. afaik only Ithamar for Zeta. geist has ide to help haiku with USB stackm but i think it was just idea:)
[19:26:03] <fyysik> joppefan - set BIOS in 1.1 USB compatibility mode
[19:26:31] <phoudoin> joppefan: Nielx was/is working on the Haiku's USB stack, aiming at 2.0 support too, but it's not ready.
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[19:27:54] * fyysik had look at haiku cvs and has deep doubts in Nielx  readiness to bring it to usable state :(
[19:29:17] <Dr3w> Later folks.
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[19:29:53] <dudek> does anybody else has problems with recording using the Auvia driver?
[19:30:13] <joppefan> fyysik ... it doesnt help to set bios to 1.1 ... and i have tested the USB patches to ..
[19:30:26] <joppefan> well
[19:30:26] <joppefan> well
[19:30:27] <joppefan> ..
[19:30:27] <joppefan> =
[19:30:27] <joppefan> )
[19:30:28] <dudek> i have to turn up my volume all the way up to be able to hear it just little bit.
[19:31:35] <joppefan> !seen Konrad
[19:31:39] <joppefan> !seen SirKonrad
[19:32:24] <@mahlzeit> !seen does this really work?
[19:33:16] <w-ber> !seen Santa Claus
[19:34:17] * joppefan saw santa yesterday .. packing gifts
[19:34:20] <@mahlzeit> it>	it might have worked if we had a bot :-)
[19:34:28] <@mahlzeit> however, you can use /ns info nick
[19:35:19] <joppefan> hmm dont remeber what nick Konrad has =)
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[19:35:30] <phoudoin> fyysik: Dunno even if Nielx still working on it...
[19:35:30] <@mahlzeit> well, /ns info Konrad says
[19:35:42] <@mahlzeit> Last Seen: 21 minutes 12 seconds ago
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[19:37:25] <fyysik> joppefan - patches + Usb storage module? Don't see disk at all, or crashes/hangs at mount?
[19:39:11] * tqh is working hard
[19:39:40] * mahlzeit is listening to the go! team
[19:41:11] <fyysik> tqh - any progress with downloader?
[19:41:43] <joppefan> fyysik .. kernel panic when booting with the USB patches had to disable USB in bios after that =)
[19:42:22] <fyysik> joppefan - kernel panic is described talkback, i think - like disable sysinit2 in settings
[19:43:13] <fyysik> second thing is to disable BIOS settings which allows to boot from USB disks
[19:45:23] <joppefan> fyysik .. so i should test sysinit2
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[19:45:38] <tqh> nope, rebuilding
[19:46:30] <fyysik> yup joppefan - most frequent reason for crash with usb features
[19:47:21] <_jasper_> cu
[19:47:42] <joppefan> fyysik .. ahh then i will test that
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[19:47:59] <fyysik> heh, building such beast as Mozilla on my PIII-550 with O3 optimize isn't fastest thing in the world:(((((((
[19:50:01] <BePage_2> fyysik you should setup something like build-factory for mozilla
[19:51:19] <fyysik> BePage_2 - that's true. Though, even work on separate modules needs now very big parience
[19:51:26] <fyysik> patience
[19:53:00] <BePage_2> if it would be as-easy to build as ffmpeg is I could dontage come spare cpu cycles :)
[19:53:17] <BePage_2> ffmpeg is building nightly here
[19:53:47] <phoudoin> fyysik: latest Oliver Tappe's gcc set a different priority for gcc. Does it change compilation speed for you in good way or wrong way?
[19:54:19] * joppefan testing USB
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[19:54:44] <fyysik> phoudoin - that's interesting thing, i hoped that i get low priorities, so can work on several things while building. But it seems that toolchain pririties are still "normal" or such
[19:56:41] <fyysik> unfirtunately child processes don't inherit parent priority. So even if i set terminal and shell priority to 5, all build system continues with its usual priority
[19:56:46] <phoudoin> I didn't check with ProcessController what latest gcc or ld have as priorities values.
[19:57:11] <fyysik> phoudoin - it is interesting if you look at that. Maybe i have set something wrong
[19:57:46] <fyysik> BePage_2 - that's nice idea. We need some distributed build machine like SETI-home:)
[19:57:54] <BePage_2> fyysik hehe
[19:58:30] <BePage_2> fyysik how much traffic does a cvs update takes?
[19:58:36] <BePage_2> usually
[19:58:42] <fyysik> lot of BeOS users are "useless" in that sense - having super-machines, asking "how can i help", but cannot provide anything as they aren't programmers
[19:59:30] <fyysik> BePage_2 - i regret to use cvs update. I'm getting source tarballs manually
[19:59:37] <BePage_2> I see
[20:00:39] <fyysik> "True BeOS supercluster"
[20:00:58] <BePage_2> hehe
[20:01:10] <BePage_2> I cannot offer much programming skills anyway
[20:01:48] <fyysik> hm... i think ffmpeg nightly building is already big thing
[20:02:14] <BePage_2> http://loop0.org/ffmpeg
[20:02:17] <BePage_2> as far as it builds nice :)
[20:02:28] <BePage_2> I'm trying to do once once a day
[20:02:38] <fyysik> any unix old-timer here?
[20:02:57] * fyysik invented joke
[20:03:55] <BePage_2> ?
[20:04:07] <fyysik> only for unix oldtimers:)
[20:04:08] <BePage_2> like fortune?
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[20:06:11] <@mahlzeit> tell the joke, fyysik :-)
[20:06:19] <fyysik> "What for MS paid SCO? To integrate root Unix technology - Upcoming Windows Oboe version will contain "Segment violation - core dumped" message in BSOD"
[20:06:55] <@mahlzeit> way too easy... ;-)
[20:07:05] <fyysik> nah
[20:07:24] <fyysik> SCO has right for that message and underlying technology, supposedly:)
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[20:08:06] <joppefan> fyysik: thanks .. it was the sysinit2 thing
[20:08:25] <fyysik> heh, joppefan - as always - RTFM:)
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[20:09:03] * fyysik thinks that main danger for MS is to use occasionally that core dump instead hybernation image
[20:09:50] <joppefan> is there any port going on with Thunderbird ?
[20:10:25] <joppefan> or is there anyother decent mail client with good IMAP support
[20:10:34] 
[20:10:40] <frankps> joppe
[20:10:43] <frankps> joppe
[20:12:20] <joppefan> ahh =)
[20:12:22] <joppefan> hi frank
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[20:12:26] <joppefan> been awhile..
[20:12:42] <frankps> yes, really
[20:12:51] <fyysik> MozillaMail. Wondering if that german mail application also has IMAP support
[20:13:00] <joppefan> frank -> /ctcp joppefan version
[20:13:15] <joppefan> fyysik : Beam ?
[20:13:18] <fyysik> yup
[20:13:24] <joppefan> nope it doesnt..
[20:13:24] <joppefan> =)
[20:13:25] <frankps> ha-ha, no such command
[20:13:42] <joppefan> realy ?
[20:13:43] <frankps> there is no imap work being done on beam
[20:13:50] <fyysik> so MDR, MozillaMail, Thinderbird
[20:14:01] <joppefan> thunderbird is working for beos ?
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[20:14:14] <frankps> imap in mdr is not good compared to what I am used to in Thunderbird
[20:14:16] <fyysik> kind of. Work in Limbo
[20:14:24] <fyysik> Nobody seems interested
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[20:14:56] <BePage> fyysik mmu_man is doing all the ffmpeg-work I just have a script to build, create archive, upload
[20:15:01] <joppefan> frankps .. well imap in MDR isnt good at all...
[20:15:14] <frankps> fyysik: Real imap support is one of the things I am missing most
[20:15:29] * BePage has a linux box, ssh->there mutt
[20:16:03] <fyysik> frankps  -  is available MozillaMail insufficent? Or you do mean BeOS-integrated IMAP mailer?
[20:16:23] <frankps> oh, I have never tried MozillaMail
[20:16:48] <frankps> I only have Firefox installed on my Zeta partition
[20:17:03] <fyysik> at least it is stable, proven and working well. except some BeOS-port specific problems like troubles with saving new filters
[20:17:14] <frankps> In ubuntu, macos and windows I use Thunderbird
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[20:19:23] <fyysik> heh, at work in Windoze and Linux i use Mozilla fo years for both browsing and mailing. So don't get there need to install two separate apps using same code instead one. But for newbies at Windoze i install separate Firefox and Thunderbird. As FF looks more cool for "Joe"
[20:19:49] <fyysik> and Outlook mut die definitely
[20:20:05] <BePage> hehe
[20:20:07] <fyysik> main virus and scam attractor and distributor
[20:20:29] <BePage> I only use FF and as said a linux box for mail
[20:20:39] <joppefan> hmm ... is SSL working with mozilla mail ?
[20:21:06] <fyysik> unfortunately couldn't solve one problem - how to force MSN messanger to call firefox instead IE to open hotmail.com mails
[20:21:23] <frankps> fyysik: we are migrating users from the old pop server to a new server that also support imap, we also at the same time started migrating users from Eudora to Thunderbird
[20:21:26] <fyysik> joppefan - yeah, in BeZilla since end of 2000
[20:21:28] <@mahlzeit> hotmail works like shit with firefox anyway
[20:21:57] <fyysik> mahlzeit - sure. Problem is MSN Messanger notification about arrived mails
[20:22:16] <frankps> has any one consider starting with sunbird port to BeOS?
[20:22:24] <fyysik> mahlzeit - if you click at those messages, it launches IE ignoring default OS http/https handler
[20:22:42] <@mahlzeit> use gmail :-)
[20:22:55] <fyysik> that's not about me
[20:22:56] <tqh> which one was sunbird, I think I was looking at it a long time ago
[20:23:36] <MikeW> The organiser thinggy
[20:23:40] <frankps> sunbird is the calendar
[20:23:41] <tqh> ah the calender. Yes I was thinking about it. But decided not to.
[20:23:42] <MikeW> which isn't very good...at all
[20:24:00] <frankps> it's getting better :-)
[20:24:13] <tqh> mozilla.org looks pretty crappy in Net+
[20:24:22] * fyysik don't use and never used - IE, hotmail, MSN browser, MSN  messenger, Outlook, Outlook express, Windows Media Player, NetMeeting etc etc etc for personal purposes
[20:25:00] <frankps> but he uses all these applications every day at work
[20:25:02] <tqh> as it didn't have mobile phone or outlook synchronization I decided it can wait.
[20:25:09] <frankps> so what's the difference
[20:25:44] <fyysik> not me, frankps:) Only thing which i was forced to use is MS Word:)
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[20:28:41] <frankps> :-)
[20:29:17] <fyysik> previously we made all scientific articles using LaTeX, but last 10 years new generation came, so MS is now everywhere:(
[20:29:27] <frankps> One of the first thing that I did when I started at the department was to forbid all use of Outlook, we had a sitelicense on Eudora
[20:29:37] <frankps> ouch
[20:29:47] <fyysik> good for first step
[20:29:51] <frankps> I always have some students making use of LaTeX
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[20:31:53] <MikeW> eudora is evil
[20:32:00] * Dr_Evil used LaTeX for diploma thesis
[20:32:01] <frankps> Next year we will start our first project running Linux - 12 machines and 3 laptops (Redhat Enterprise), gonna be fun seeing how that goes. The users are mainly using their machines for writing documents, e-mail and browsing, so shouldn't matter
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[20:32:20] <_jasper_> aloha
[20:32:38] * Dr_Evil used winword as text editor with spell checker :)
[20:32:56] * mahlzeit uses winword for writing source code
[20:33:18] <fyysik> hehe mahlzeit - this is top of freakness!
[20:33:20] <@mahlzeit> actually, i don't but dr_evil did, ha ha ha !
[20:33:29] <MikeW> noe!
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[20:34:13] <joppefan> frankps : so how are things going ?
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[20:34:44] <tic> LaTeX rules.
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[20:37:29] * mahlzeit tries to remember the name of that dtp program for the c64
[20:37:36] <joppefan> hmm where do i download the im kit?
[20:38:11] <Proctop> beclan?
[20:39:02] <BePage> yep
[20:39:09] <mmadia> joppefan:   http://beclan.org/show_project.php?id=3   there's a #beosimkit as well
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[20:42:17] 
[20:42:23] 
[20:43:35] <@mahlzeit> the newsroom, that was it
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[20:52:15] * tqh needs food
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[20:54:00] * mahlzeit recommends chocolate peanuts
[20:54:18] * AnEvilYak chomps
[20:54:24] <@mahlzeit> woot
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[21:22:56] <Dr3w> Hi folks.
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[21:40:30] <mumu25> 7win 2
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[21:41:51] <fyysik> Dec 13 20:41:51 <fyysik>
[21:41:54] <fyysik> hihi
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[21:45:06] <joppefan> frankps: tjenna =)
[21:45:17] 
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[21:46:47] <fyysik> is Linspire ex Lindows still alive?
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[21:56:54] * tqh can't believe how long a Firefox rebuild takes
[21:57:33] * w-ber can
[21:57:46] <AnEvilYak> tqh: this is why going to the kitchen to make a sandwich in the meantime is advisable ;p
[21:57:48] * Proctop too.
[21:58:03] <AnEvilYak> though on second thought firefox build process could last quite a few sandwiches
[21:58:10] * tic believes in more food.
[21:58:11] <@mahlzeit> and chocolate peanuts
[21:58:20] <AnEvilYak> mmm...chocolate....
[21:58:20] <Proctop> knowing how long it takes. Imagine me compiling mozilla back in the days on a P200 128 M RAM.
[21:58:30] <AnEvilYak> mmmm......land of chocolate............
[21:58:30] <tic> eek
[21:58:35] <AnEvilYak> Proctop: yipe
[21:58:40] <AnEvilYak> Proctop: took what, a few days? :)
[21:58:46] <tic> stop it, I'm full of chocolate!
[21:58:47] <Proctop> right.
[21:58:51] <tic> s/stop it/please stop
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[21:59:01] <Proctop> counting the hours got tiresome, so I started measuring in days.
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[21:59:20] <@mahlzeit> reminds me of rendering raytracing scenes on the amiga :-)
[21:59:49] <AnEvilYak> haha.
[22:00:03] * AnEvilYak remains in the land of chocolate
[22:00:12] * AnEvilYak transmogrifies into Homer Simpson
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[22:00:39] <tic> :]
[22:00:45] <AnEvilYak> remember that episode?
[22:00:46] <tic> ick.
[22:00:50] <tic> 3D?
[22:00:53] <AnEvilYak> no
[22:00:56] <tic> land of chocolate?
[22:00:59] <AnEvilYak> was the one where the germans bought Mr Burns's power plant
[22:01:04] <frankps> joppefan: ubuntu?
[22:01:06] <tic> Hm.. I think so.
[22:01:11] <AnEvilYak> "Why, we come from the land of chocolate!"
[22:01:16] <AnEvilYak> "Mmmm....land of chocolate......"
[22:01:20] <tic> yeah, that scene I remember.
[22:01:23] <AnEvilYak> :-)
[22:01:32] <tic> he walked around eating chocolate.  but wait, wasn't that when he hit his head badly?
[22:01:37] <AnEvilYak> nope.
[22:01:39] <tic> Hm..
[22:01:43] <AnEvilYak> was a daydream during his interview
[22:01:47] <AnEvilYak> remember, he got laid off?
[22:02:39] <tic> hm. no, not really.:) Long time since I saw that episode.   What does he dream when he hits his head on the way down the mountain trying to master his ass?
[22:02:48] <tqh> Maybe I should compile on my p166mmx with 32MB memory and 2GB disk
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[22:03:15] <tic> tqh, yow, that's almost exactly my first PC system.
[22:03:17] <AnEvilYak> tic: I forget that one.
[22:03:39] <tic> AnEvilYak, the sherpas dragging him up the mounting when he's sleeping and stuff. grandpa simpson had a bite of his friend. :P
[22:03:48] <tic> tqh, 'cept I had no mmx, and I had a 2.5G disk. :P
[22:03:53] <AnEvilYak> tic: must have missed that one.
[22:04:02] <tic> AnEvilYak, oh? hm..
[22:04:10] <AnEvilYak> tqh: would 2GB of disk even be enough for src + all temp files?
[22:04:15] <tic> AnEvilYak, the Power Sauce episode, with five kinds of apple sauce?
[22:04:18] <tqh> ah, my first computer, correction PC, had 60MB harddrive
[22:04:22] <AnEvilYak> tic: *shakes head*
[22:04:25] <AnEvilYak> my first one had 40
[22:04:28] <AnEvilYak> good old 286/12
[22:04:33] <AnEvilYak> running at 16MHz for whatever reason
[22:04:35] <AnEvilYak> yay Turbo button
[22:04:37] <tic> AnEvilYak, hm. okay.  I've seen it a lot of time
[22:04:39] <tic> .Hha
[22:04:40] <tic> haha
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[22:04:47] <tqh> tic as long as you dont do debug I think it would fit
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[22:05:01] <tic> yay, Swedes in grade 8 are below average in math skills.
[22:05:01] <AnEvilYak> but would it run? ;p
[22:05:09] <tic> tqh, coolio.
[22:05:26] <tqh> my 486/33 with 256k videomem and 4 mb ram
[22:05:56] <tqh> yay it's done
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[22:09:11] <@mahlzeit> my first computer was an eniac
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[22:10:03] <tic> my first computer was pen & paper damnit! :)
[22:10:18] <tic> I ran the code in my head for the first couple of years.
[22:10:41] <@mahlzeit> you know what, donald duck magazine had a paper computer once
[22:11:33] <@mahlzeit> you had to glue it together and use coins and stuff to perform the calculations
[22:11:55] <tic> cool!
[22:12:04] <tic> I love "analog" things
[22:12:17] <tic> like, using mechanics to code pong.
[22:13:31] <sys2> SDL opengl doesnt work on beos? :/
[22:13:58] <CIA-6> korli * current/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/dos/ (dir.c encodings.cpp encodings.h): add lowercase short filenames support
[22:21:19] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/apps/rld/rldelf.c: Minor cleanup.
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[22:27:11] <CIA-6> korli * current/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/ (dos/Jamfile iso9660/Jamfile udf/Jamfile):
[22:27:11] <CIA-6> changed location for some filesystem addons
[22:27:11] <CIA-6> This implies to clean this location before the build
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[22:29:12] <@mmu_man> ??
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[22:29:52] <tic> moo
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[23:00:38] <CIA-6> axeld * current/headers/os/drivers/KernelExport.h: Moved B_KERNEL_{READ|WRITE_AREA} from vm_types.h to KernelExport.h.
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[23:01:40] <CIA-6> axeld * current/headers/private/kernel/vm_types.h:
[23:01:40] <CIA-6> Moved B_KERNEL_{READ|WRITE_AREA} from vm_types.h to KernelExport.h.
[23:01:40] <CIA-6> Small header cleanup.
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[23:04:43] <CIA-6> axeld * current/headers/private/kernel/vm.h: vm_create_vnode_cache() now fills a vm_cache_ref instead a void pointer.
[23:05:19] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/vm/vm.c:
[23:05:19] <CIA-6> vm_create_vnode_cache() now fills a vm_cache_ref instead a void pointer.
[23:05:19] <CIA-6> Minor cleanup.
[23:06:02] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/vm/vm_cache.c: Now uses ASSERT_LOCKED_MUTEX() some more.
[23:06:15] <jonaskirilla> anyone from BeUnited here?
[23:07:41] <CIA-6> axeld * current/headers/private/kernel/vfs.h:
[23:07:41] <CIA-6> Renamed vfs_get_vnode() to vfs_lookup_vnode() as it doesn't grab a ref to the node.
[23:07:41] <CIA-6> Added new vfs_get_vnode() that actually grabs such a ref.
[23:07:41] <CIA-6> vfs_get_vnode_cache() now fills a vm_cache_ref instead of a void pointer.
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[23:16:49] <fyysik> Dec 13 22:16:49 <fyysik>
[23:16:59] <JBurton> hi fyysik
[23:17:14] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/fs/vfs.cpp: (log message trimmed)
[23:17:14] <CIA-6> get_new_fd() now has a separate fs_mount parameter, so you no longer need to cast
[23:17:14] <CIA-6> different types to vnodes.
[23:17:14] <CIA-6> Renamed vfs_get_vnode() to vfs_lookup_vnode() as it doesn't grab a ref to the node.
[23:17:14] <CIA-6> Added new vfs_get_vnode() that actually grabs such a ref.
[23:17:15] <CIA-6> vfs_get_vnode_cache() now fills a vm_cache_ref instead of a void pointer.
[23:17:17] <CIA-6> Replaced SYS_MAX_NAME_LEN constants with the B_FILE_NAME_LENGTH that should have
[23:19:40] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/fs/bootfs.c: Replaced SYS_MAX_PATH_LEN with B_PATH_NAME_LENGTH.
[23:22:05] <CIA-6> axeld * current/headers/private/kernel/file_cache.h:
[23:22:05] <CIA-6> cache_node_closed() and *_opened() now accept a vm_cache_ref as first
[23:22:05] <CIA-6> parameter instead of a void pointer.
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[23:22:58] <CIA-6> axeld * current/headers/private/kernel/ (fd.h lock.h team.h thread.h thread_types.h arch/thread.h): Some header work to reduce dependencies. Also fixes the debug build.
[23:31:45] <@mmu_man> hmm
[23:31:53] <@mmu_man> axel turned off turbo boost
[23:31:59] <@mmu_man> s/off/on/
[23:32:49] <@mmu_man> #define B_KERNEL_READ_AREA                      16
[23:32:50] <@mmu_man> #define B_KERNEL_WRITE_AREA                     32
[23:32:52] <@mmu_man> hmm wtf ?
[23:33:57] <tic> hrm?
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[23:35:55] <JBurton> what's wrong with it mmu_man ?
[23:36:47] <@mmu_man> well R5 uses 4 and 8
[23:36:57] <@mmu_man> though it's not public so it wouldn't hurt much
[23:37:01] <JBurton> :P
[23:37:06] <JBurton> in fact :)
[23:37:11] <tic> well.. people use it in their code
[23:37:21] <tic> so if it's 4 and 8, it'll break apps compiled with B_KERNEL_READ_AREA
[23:37:22] <JBurton> well bad for them
[23:37:23] <JBurton> it's private
[23:37:25] <tic> oh.
[23:37:25] <@mmu_man> it's used mostly with is_valid_range() which isn't public either despite EVERY driver maker should use it in ioctl()
[23:37:26] <tic> Hm..
[23:37:31] <tic> Ah.
[23:37:32] <JBurton> :P
[23:37:53] * mmu_man uses is_valid_range() :)
[23:38:02] <JBurton> heh
[23:44:31] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/heap.c: PARANOID_POINTER_CHECK is now only defined if DEBUG is defined, too, by default.
[23:45:30] *** illissius is now known as illissius[sleep]
[23:46:24] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/arch/x86/ (arch_debug.c arch_thread.c): Updated because of header changes.
[23:47:52] * mmu_man overclocks axeld for the night and signs off
[23:47:54] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/cache/ (vnode_store.cpp vnode_store.h): Added a pointer to the file_cache_ref to the vnode_store.
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[23:58:54] <CIA-6> axeld * current/src/kernel/core/cache/file_cache.cpp:
[23:58:54] <CIA-6> Locking of the vm_cache_ref was almost completely missing...
[23:58:54] <CIA-6> cache_node_{opened|closed}() now correctly get the file_cache_ref from a vm_cache_ref.
[23:58:54] <CIA-6> Implemented cache_prefetch(): for now, it always prefetches the first 64 kB from the file.
[23:58:54] <CIA-6> Renamed read_from_cache() to read_into_cache().
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[23:59:57] <tic> hey code monster :)





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