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[00:26:37] <@AndrewBachmann> whoa, CIA woke up
[00:29:54] <eazel7> AndrewBachmann, why did you say that?
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[00:47:44] <@AndrewBachmann> because it suddenly printed my commit from yesterday
[00:48:57] <eazel7> Palm wouldn't collaborate at all with haiku, isn't it?
[00:49:26] <tic> eazel7, probably not. Why would they?
[00:49:35] <tic> (if by Palm you mean PalmSource)
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[00:50:02] <eazel7> tic, to get a wider app/infracstructure for it's PalmOS
[00:50:37] <eazel7> more apps/technologies developed
[00:51:07] <tic> eazel7, ... but PalmOS isn't Haiku...
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[00:51:51] <eazel7> tic, but the could release some pieces of code, so haiku could be developed faster
[00:52:06] <tic> eazel7, and what they get from that?
[00:52:13] <tic> eazel7, it's all about profit :|
[00:52:50] <eazel7> cheaper/free apps/technologies for it's OS
[00:53:28] <tic> No.  BeOS apps won't run on PalmOS.
[00:53:34] <tic> PalmOS is a _very_ different beast from BeOS.
[00:53:44] <eazel7> oh, ok
[00:54:01] <eazel7> though it had some similarities
[00:54:05] <tic> nope
[00:58:10] <tic> check out http://www.yellowtab.com, people.
[00:59:33] <eazel7> ok
[01:00:21] <Master199> lol , i think there was anybody very frustrated o_O
[01:02:06] <tic> sent an SMS to the webmaster, hope he gets it..
[01:02:30] <@AndrewBachmann> http://www.yellowtab.com/
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[01:06:40] <eazel7> hehehehe
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[02:13:34] <TuneTracker> Scenario...
[02:13:34] <TuneTracker> Dec 10 01:13:34 <TuneTracker>
[02:13:35] <TuneTracker> I have two machines that appear to only differ by the motherboard.  They have the same chipset, just different motherboard makers.  They are both using the same RTL8139 net card.  Using two matching Zeta installations, one of the computers networks fine, while the other's network jams when you try to restart the network.  It's necessary to kill network, inetd, and dhconfig before I can reboot it.  What is likely to be the problem on
[02:13:35] <TuneTracker> the one whose network locks (I've tried swapping net cards, and results are the same) ??
[02:13:36] <TuneTracker> Dec 10 01:13:36 <TuneTracker>
[02:13:38] <TuneTracker> Please, no Zeta flames, I'm looking for real assistance here.  :-)
[02:14:10] <@AndrewBachmann> cards in different slots?
[02:14:30] <TuneTracker> AndrewBachmann Thanks, tried that one too.
[02:14:35] <@AndrewBachmann> onboard ethernet not disabled?
[02:14:44] <TuneTracker> Did that one too.  :-)
[02:14:55] <@AndrewBachmann> tried using the onboard ethernet?
[02:15:00] <@AndrewBachmann> (driver on bebits, perhaps)
[02:15:57] <TuneTracker> Actually no, I haven't tried...might be worth a wild shot.
[02:29:24] <@AndrewBachmann> I had success lately with 3c920 driver on bebits on two machines for on board ethernet
[02:29:31] <@AndrewBachmann> I should try it tonight on this box, actually
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[04:52:12] <NathanW> Any idea why the dualhead on my Radeon 9250 won't go into combine mode?
[04:57:28] <mmadia> cause i read it here NathanW   ;)
[04:57:36] <NathanW> hahahahahah
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[05:46:39] <NathanW> mmm
[05:46:50] <NathanW> Dualhead = awesomeness
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[09:09:05] <JBurton> hi
[09:09:27] <JBurton> AndrewBachmann around ?
[09:09:30] <@AndrewBachmann> yes
[09:09:38] <@AndrewBachmann> did you find my patch acceptable
[09:09:45] <JBurton> I think so
[09:09:57] <JBurton> does it work ? (that's the most important thing) :)
[09:10:03] <@AndrewBachmann> yes :-)
[09:10:31] <@AndrewBachmann> IIRC read-only mode was broken before
[09:10:40] <@AndrewBachmann> so I assume those lines were added to fix that bug
[09:10:49] <@AndrewBachmann> but when I took them out, read-only mode seems to work fine still
[09:10:57] <@AndrewBachmann> well, almost
[09:11:06] <@AndrewBachmann> Cut and Paste still affect read only
[09:11:30] <@AndrewBachmann> also it really seems like the lines separation is too short
[09:12:11] <@AndrewBachmann> if I type like this in StyledEdit:
[09:12:13] <@AndrewBachmann> ZZZZZZZZZyyyyyyyyyyyy
[09:12:14] <@AndrewBachmann> ZZZZZZZZZZZ
[09:12:21] <@AndrewBachmann> then the tails on the yyyyyy vanish
[09:13:22] <@AndrewBachmann> maybe this is related to that + 1 pixel thing
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[09:14:17] <@AndrewBachmann> eh, I wish CIA were tied in to cvs browser
[09:14:27] <@AndrewBachmann> it's such an obvious marriage
[09:16:13] <JBurton> sorry was away
[09:16:27] <JBurton> hmmm
[09:16:43] <Soulbender> hey JBurton
[09:17:10] <JBurton> did lines separation change with the +1 addition ? AndrewBachmann ?
[09:17:11] <JBurton> hi Soulbender
[09:17:20] <Soulbender> yellowtabs site got hacked
[09:17:22] <Soulbender> :P
[09:17:25] <JBurton> tied in like what, AndrewBachmann ?
[09:17:26] <@AndrewBachmann> did you add +1 separation JBurton?
[09:17:37] <JBurton> AndrewBachmann check my last change (before yours)
[09:17:51] <@AndrewBachmann> tied in like if you click on the commit it shows not only the file, but has links for each file so you can see the diff
[09:17:58] <JBurton> ah yeah it would be great
[09:18:08] <JBurton> in fact I miss it
[09:18:16] <JBurton> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/open-beos/current/src/kits/interface/BTextView/TextView.cpp?r1=1.56&r2=1.57
[09:18:39] <@AndrewBachmann> hrm
[09:18:45] <JBurton> I think we can check in Cut() and Paste() for fEditable
[09:18:53] <@AndrewBachmann> I don't
[09:19:03] <JBurton> unless it has to work if called programmatically
[09:19:13] <@AndrewBachmann> probably it does
[09:19:37] <@AndrewBachmann> should eraseRect.top be + 1 as well
[09:19:41] <JBurton> then it needs to be done in MessageReceived() (I see you added a todo there)
[09:19:43] <JBurton> hmm dunno
[09:20:18] <JBurton> yeah I guess
[09:20:26] <JBurton> though I can't see how this fixes your problem :P
[09:21:02] <@AndrewBachmann> hmann>	hm
[09:21:17] <@AndrewBachmann> the +1 you added doesn't seem to increase the line separation
[09:22:01] <JBurton> weird
[09:22:08] <JBurton> hm well it's not so weird
[09:22:58] <JBurton> ton>	to increase line separation we need to change something in RecalculateLineBreaks()
[09:22:59] <JBurton> remember ?
[09:23:03] <JBurton> we added ceil() there
[09:23:14] <@AndrewBachmann> sounds good
[09:23:30] <JBurton> though I don't know what we should do there, if add 1 or whatever
[09:23:41] <@AndrewBachmann> add 1 sounds good :-)
[09:24:06] <JBurton> try :)
[09:24:27] <@AndrewBachmann> sorry, no threads available
[09:24:32] <Soulbender> oh, they fixed it already
[09:24:47] <JBurton> AndrewBachmann :)
[09:25:05] <JBurton> AndrewBachmann btw, I tried (again) to add asynchronous mouse tracking
[09:25:10] <JBurton> it's a big mess
[09:25:30] <JBurton> now I understand why they did that way
[09:25:49] <JBurton> (i.e. two BMessageRunners and a support class)
[09:26:50] <JBurton> you need to scroll the view when the mouse it's outside, for example, and you don't get a MouseMoved() notification there
[09:26:53] <@AndrewBachmann> btw would it trouble you immensely if I mention another bug? :-)
[09:27:00] <JBurton> no, shoot :)
[09:27:26] <@AndrewBachmann> wrapping allows the characters to extend too far to the right
[09:27:32] <@AndrewBachmann> they get clipped instead of wrapped
[09:27:49] <JBurton> AndrewBachmann hmmm ok I think I know what you mean
[09:28:19] <JBurton> lemme have a look at the code...
[09:29:37] <@AndrewBachmann> those are the same width
[09:29:38] <@AndrewBachmann> same text
[09:29:53] <JBurton> yeah, I think I seen that behaviour alreay
[09:29:55] <JBurton> yeah, I think I seen that behaviour already
[09:30:18] <JBurton> we should wrap the text one charachter before
[09:31:02] <@AndrewBachmann> I think that +1 you added made the tails vanish
[09:31:04] <@AndrewBachmann> not sure though
[09:31:42] <JBurton> could be
[09:32:18] <JBurton> btw, before my last change, my test app under win32 didnt' work either :P
[09:32:25] <JBurton> I got white text :P
[09:32:37] <@AndrewBachmann> heh
[09:32:43] <@AndrewBachmann> I read the commit
[09:36:49] <JBurton> AndrewBachmann ok, I had a look at the code for the clipping/wrapping problem, shoulnd't be too hard to fix
[09:36:59] <JBurton> but I have to use the trial and error approach
[09:37:08] <@AndrewBachmann> :-/
[09:37:19] <JBurton> :=)
[09:38:15] <tic> off-topic: Any of you using PalmOS? If so, what PalmOS datebook app do you guys use?
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[09:49:35] <JBurton> AndrewBachmann hmmm I think I found something, but I'd like your opinion
[09:49:42] <JBurton> have you got some time ?
[09:49:52] <@AndrewBachmann> little bit
[09:49:56] <JBurton> ok
[09:50:09] <JBurton> check FindLineBreak()
[09:50:18] <@AndrewBachmann> time to talk, no time to code :-)
[09:50:29] <JBurton> time to look at code? :)
[09:50:51] <@AndrewBachmann> time, but no screen space :-)
[09:50:54] <JBurton> eheh
[09:51:02] <JBurton> ok no problem we'll talk later/monday
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[10:02:01] * matricks pokes JBurton
[10:05:18] <@AndrewBachmann> g'night
[10:06:41] <matricks> god morning :)
[10:06:53] <matricks> s/god/good/ :\
[10:10:13] <JBurton> hi matricks
[10:10:16] <JBurton> night AndrewBachmannn
[10:12:24] <matricks> JBurton: you are working on the appkit/server right?
[10:13:44] <matricks> (fast forward) you guys should make a xmas update to the community
[10:14:57] <tic> ... is there anyhing to show, yet?
[10:15:09] <tic> also, BMessage still doesn't work, afaik.
[10:16:54] <JBurton> matricks no :)
[10:17:02] <matricks> huh?
[10:17:11] <JBurton> matricks I'm not working on the app kit / server
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[10:17:24] <matricks> then what are you working on?
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[10:17:25] <JBurton> tic has bugs
[10:17:29] <JBurton> matricks good question
[10:17:37] <JBurton> matricks I don't have idea :P
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[10:17:41] <matricks> :)
[10:17:45] <JBurton> matricks well I'm not doing anything great lately
[10:17:48] <matricks> then I was missinformed
[10:17:58] <JBurton> I add some code here and there
[10:18:02] <matricks> :)
[10:18:05] <JBurton> hi Korli
[10:18:09] <tic> matricks, I've got bugs?! :P
[10:18:11] <tic> err, jburton
[10:18:19] <tic> matricks, however, self-hosting might be near.
[10:18:49] <matricks> I wish I could help out.. but.. first off I need to beable to boot BeOS(/Haiku?)
[10:18:56] <JBurton> tic eheh lol
[10:19:00] <JBurton> tic I mean, BMessage has bugs
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[10:19:05] <JBurton> it works but has bugs
[10:19:15] <tic> aha.
[10:19:15] <JBurton> matricks I think so
[10:19:25] <matricks> JBurton: ?
[10:19:37] <JBurton> matricks though I was able to do some bugfixes to the kernel under linux
[10:19:39] <JBurton> some time ago
[10:20:05] <matricks> ahh
[10:20:25] <matricks> then when I got it booting.. I need some time over :\
[10:22:11] <matricks> 8 work, 2 transportation, 8 hours sleep, 2 for food.. about 4 hours after the essensials :\
[10:22:31] <tic> yay
[10:22:35] <tic> 8 hours sleep? pfft
[10:22:39] <tic> 6 is more like it.
[10:22:49] <matricks> and then I must have the energy to code after 8 hours coding at work. not bloody likly :\
[10:22:54] <tic> yay
[10:23:06] <matricks> my brain would be like smashed potatos
[10:23:27] <matricks> with gravy
[10:23:30] <matricks> and peas
[10:23:48] <matricks> perhaps some sort of beef aswell
[10:23:55] * matricks starts rabbeling
[10:24:36] <Soulbender> PHP Warning:  Unknown(): open_basedir restriction in effect. File(/hosted/webmail.unet.net.ph/htdocs/src/redirect.php) is not within the allowed path(s): (/) in Unknown on line 0
[10:24:38] <matricks> well, atleast I can convert ppl into BeOS zealots :)
[10:24:38] <Soulbender> nice error
[10:24:55] <Soulbender> completely inaccurate and unhelpfull
[10:24:57] <Soulbender> wau to go php
[10:25:58] <matricks> I think I know what it means
[10:26:20] <Soulbender> yeah
[10:26:21] <Soulbender> me too
[10:26:25] <Soulbender> it measn php is crap
[10:26:31] <matricks> :P
[10:30:29] <Soulbender> oh nice
[10:30:37] <matricks> btw, in the latest news on the Haiku home page it says that it boots from the ISA IDE driver.. does a working PCI IDE driver exist?
[10:30:41] <Soulbender> now i get some other bulls$t error
[10:31:07] <matricks> Soulbender: the joy of coding :)
[10:33:14] <tic> matricks, apparantly that's backwards compatible.
[10:33:17] <Soulbender> "/var/www/hosted/webmail.unet.net.ph/data/ should be writable by user"
[10:33:18] <Soulbender> geee
[10:33:19] <Soulbender> thanks
[10:33:22] <matricks> tic: hehu :)
[10:33:23] <Soulbender> it is writeable
[10:33:33] <Soulbender> idiotic webdesigners
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[10:34:42] <tic> tja matricks
[10:34:47] <tic> four swedes talking. :)
[10:35:22] <matricks> heh
[10:35:54] <matricks> in english :0
[10:37:00] <m_eiman> morning tic
[10:38:41] <Soulbender> lets keep talking in english, i'm too lazy to screw about qith keyboard layouts
[10:38:43] <Soulbender> :P
[10:38:59] <JBurton> matricks PCI IDE driver does indeed exist
[10:39:33] <tic> m_eiman, looked at Rondup?
[10:40:05] <matricks> JBurton: \o/ :)
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[10:40:25] <JBurton> hey mahlzeit
[10:40:29] <@mahlzeit> morning
[10:40:40] <m_eiman> tic: Roundup?
[10:40:41] <@mahlzeit> what's up?
[10:40:42] 
[10:40:57] <JBurton> matricks http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/open-beos/current/src/add-ons/kernel/busses/ide/generic_ide_pci/
[10:41:04] <tic> matricks, rondup.sorceforge.net
[10:41:05] <matricks> JBurton: nice
[10:41:08] <tic> err, m_eiman
[10:41:15] <m_eiman> tic: *checking*
[10:41:18] <tic> m_eiman, it's a _really_ nice issue tracker.  Twisted are using it.
[10:41:42] <matricks> tic: ??
[10:41:42] <m_eiman> 404
[10:41:51] <tic> hrm..
[10:41:57] <tic> roundup.sf.net. :)
[10:41:57] <matricks> spell it right
[10:42:13] 
[10:42:20] <matricks> http://roundup.sourceforge.net/
[10:42:23] <tic> (or, EU and HTNS on my keyboard.)
[10:44:34] * mahlzeit is going to do some running, woohoo
[10:45:30] <tic> Hm.. What if I remapped Caps to Windows
[10:52:43] * tic is happy now that he's got {}()[] on his home row. :)
[10:54:17] <tic> remapped it again..
[10:54:33] 
[10:54:33] 
[10:54:41] <tic> hehe
[10:54:47] <w-ber> haha
[10:54:49] <matricks> :)
[10:54:52] <matricks> python = teh nice
[10:54:58] <tic> japp.
[10:55:26] 
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[11:03:40] <@Korli> hi JBurton
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[11:42:04] <JBurton> what's up Korli ?
[11:42:51] <@Korli> work is time consuming
[11:43:55] <JBurton> yeah
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[11:52:41] <Dr3w> !seen MYOB
[11:52:45] <Dr3w> seen MYOB
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[12:09:02] <JBurton> hey mmu_man, BGA
[12:10:07] <@mmu_man> plop
[12:10:30] <@BGA> JBurton!
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[12:40:21] <Dr3w> did axel commit his PPC changes to cvs?
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[12:43:05] <JBurton> don't know
[12:43:13] <JBurton> hayo mahlzeit
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[12:45:47] <@mahlzeit> hey
[12:45:56] * mahlzeit is tired
[12:46:26] <@mahlzeit> brb
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[15:03:40] <@mahlzeit> hey Dr3w
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[15:13:38] <TuneTracker> Can anyone tell me what UserlandFS is?
[15:16:23] <@mahlzeit> it>	i don't know, but bonefish should be able to tell you that :-)
[15:16:47] <@bonefish> Well, I can. :-)
[15:17:30] <@bonefish> A combination of file system kernel add-on and server that allows you to write file systems in userland not in the kernel.
[15:18:50] <@bonefish> Very nice when developing a FS, since you don't crash the whole system, but only some userland app.
[15:23:58] <TuneTracker> bonefish thanks
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[15:43:51] * mmu_man likes KDL so much anyway :p
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[17:08:05] <adioanca> anybody seen JBurton?
[17:08:19] <@mahlzeit> yes
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[17:08:33] <@mahlzeit> but he left this afternoon
[17:09:11] <adioanca> so, he was... aparently every time I join #haiku he's not here...
[17:09:15] <adioanca> ok, thanks.
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[17:14:41] <Konrad> Can haiku start and play a mp3 from terminal using its own mediakit?
[17:17:08] <@bonefish> Konrad: I believe not yet. There's a bit of integration missing at least.
[17:17:27] <Konrad> Hi bonefish Ah, thanks for the answer
[17:18:00] <Konrad> Hmm lets ask something about you area instead, can it mount a NTFS partition ( or any other than BFS ) from terminal?
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[17:19:26] <@bonefish> I believe, we have no NTFS add-on yet, so that sounds difficult. :-) But it can mount BFS partitions. So claims Axel at least. Haven't tried myself yet. :-)
[17:19:41] <Konrad> AH
[17:20:12] <Konrad> So the FS_addons wont be binary comp with BeOS then
[17:20:22] <@bonefish> No.
[17:20:37] <Konrad> Any reasons why they wont?
[17:20:39] <@bonefish> Maybe we can see that we implement a wrapper.
[17:21:23] <@bonefish> Well, our new interface is better and besides NTFS we aren't missing any existing FS.
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[17:21:44] <@bonefish> And even NTFS could be cured with code borrowed from Linux.
[17:22:04] <Konrad> bonefish some us (me includeed ) would claim that NTFS is the most important one
[17:22:15] <Konrad> Ah
[17:22:25] <@bonefish> I would claim BFS to be the most important one. ;-P
[17:23:04] <@bonefish> I'm sure the NTFS problem can be solved.
[17:23:35] <jonaskirilla> cddafs
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[17:24:09] <jonaskirilla> cdda-fs is Marcos.. closed source
[17:24:09] <@bonefish> jonaskirilla: That's a very simple one. :-)
[17:24:26] <@bonefish> We should be able to clone it with little effort.
[17:24:36] <jonaskirilla> yeah, cool project for someone
[17:24:55] <McCall> Hmmmm... are you sure there isn't source code for cdda-fs ?
[17:25:07] * McCall is sure he remembers seeing it around R4.5 sometime...
[17:25:23] <@bonefish> McCall: Now that you mention it, I believe you're right.
[17:26:04] <@mmu_man> not in R5 sample code, but maybe an old one yeah
[17:26:14] <@mmu_man> checked ftp mirrors ?
[17:26:27] <McCall> http://www.beatjapan.org/mirror/www.be.com/beware/Miscellaneous/Mount%20CDDA.html
[17:26:31] <@mahlzeit> it>	i seem to remember something like that too
[17:26:31] <McCall> says source was available
[17:26:47] <jonaskirilla> Darwin has some source
[17:26:48] <jonaskirilla> http://gobsd.com/code/darwin/cddafs/
[17:27:10] <McCall> jonaskirilla, the source for the BeOS should be available
[17:27:29] <@mmu_man> I think Marco Nelissen wrote it
[17:27:34] <jonaskirilla> yes
[17:27:37] <@mmu_man> eh :)
[17:28:25] <jonaskirilla> FWIW, the source from Darwin looks like it could be good a good info resource.. something to compare with
[17:28:57] <jonaskirilla> the AIFF file
[17:29:55] <@bonefish> We could improve it to also provide mp3s. :-)
[17:30:26] <jonaskirilla> here's a page with links to other cdda-fs: http://www.ii.pw.edu.pl/~borkowsm/cdfs.htm
[17:30:55] <jonaskirilla> bonefish: in a filesystem.. what's the point in stuffing more parts in-kernel?
[17:30:55] <@mmu_man> well everyone copied us :)
[17:31:07] <jonaskirilla> there's a link to Marco there
[17:31:08] <@mmu_man> jonaskirilla cause we like KDL :)
[17:31:24] <@bonefish> jonaskirilla: It would just be cool. ;-)
[17:31:35] <jonaskirilla> mmu_man: oh yeah, have you implemented the black on white yet? ;))
[17:31:59] <jonaskirilla> bonefish: why not export it as Postscript! :}
[17:32:43] <jonaskirilla> (or something one could flash one's Basic Stamp chip with...)
[17:32:51] <@bonefish> jonaskirilla: Interesting idea. ;-)
[17:33:28] <@bonefish> I have to go. CU guys!
[17:33:28] <McCall> I can't find the source anywhere.
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[17:33:52] <jonaskirilla> McCall: have you got the Be newsletter archives?
[17:34:01] <McCall> not on me :)
[17:34:07] <jonaskirilla> heh
[17:34:36] <jonaskirilla> It's a 2.3 MB zip
[17:35:02] <@mmu_man> well I have an src here but it's not public
[17:35:06] <@mmu_man> :p
[17:35:24] <jonaskirilla> ah, crap, my newsletter archive is corrupt
[17:36:17] <jonaskirilla> no mention of cdda, as far as I can grep the newsletters
[17:36:39] <@mmu_man> well Maybe Marco would contribute it to Haiku now
[17:37:15] <jonaskirilla> it's not like there's any other buyer
[17:37:47] <@mmu_man> eh
[17:38:07] <@mmu_man> ok, gtg
[17:38:13] <@mmu_man> some things in town then kung fu
[17:38:45] <jonaskirilla> break a leg ;)
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[17:40:29] <jonaskirilla> (in the proverbial sense, of course)
[17:40:37] <McCall> too late, he missed that.
[17:40:45] <McCall> if he breaks a leg now, its your fault.
[17:40:58] <McCall> but... he will probably not be able to work and get more time to code Haiku :)
[17:44:41] <McCall> ok later folks.
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[18:39:45] <JBurton> hi all
[18:39:51] <@mahlzeit> hey burton
[18:40:05] <JBurton> hey mahlzeit
[18:40:38] <@mahlzeit> what's up this friday night?
[18:40:50] <JBurton> no idea
[18:41:07] <@mahlzeit> yeah i never know what i'm doing either :-)
[18:41:36] <JBurton> btw I'm a married man, so my live is pretty simple :P
[18:41:39] <JBurton> s/live/life
[18:41:53] <@mahlzeit> ahlzeit>	ah yes, your wife simply tells you what to do
[18:41:57] <@mahlzeit> smart man :-)
[18:42:06] <JBurton> exactly :)
[18:42:11] <Konrad> JBurton hehe, you have to do the usual then, clean, cook, and say round words to you wife =)
[18:42:21] <JBurton> eheh
[18:42:49] <Konrad> Iam actually going bowling later
[18:43:02] <Konrad> Thats almost too serious, or?
[18:43:43] <@mahlzeit> bowling is cool
[18:43:53] <JBurton> I prefer... urm... pool
[18:43:59] <JBurton> or whatever it's called
[18:44:37] <Konrad> pool is fun, but I always hit the eight..
[18:44:59] <JBurton> it's been awhile since I last played though
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[18:45:54] <Konrad> Hejsan frankps
[18:46:24] <frankps> tjosan
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[18:51:44] <JBurton> ok guys, I synched my local repository, i'm leaving now
[18:51:48] <JBurton> bye all
[18:52:07] <@mahlzeit> later
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[19:21:17] <_jasper_> hi
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[19:43:41] <+CIA-5> axeld * current/headers/private/kernel/arch/x86/ (arch_vm.h vm.h):
[19:43:41] <+CIA-5> vm.h was not used anywhere.
[19:43:41] <+CIA-5> Introduced new arch_vm.h ("public" arch headers have the arch_ prefix).
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[19:47:08] <_jasper_> can somebody help me?
[19:47:28] <_jasper_> how can i get the coordinates of a window in BeOS?
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[19:47:54] <@geist> grab a ruler
[19:48:04] <_jasper_> 8)))
[19:48:46] <+CIA-5> axeld * current/headers/private/kernel/arch/ (vm.h ppc/arch_vm.h): Introduced new arch_vm.h header.
[19:48:51] <_jasper_> something else?
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[20:00:45] <Dr3w> Wow, this channel is really getting full.
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[20:26:21] <Dr3w> Can anyone tell me if this:
[20:26:22] <Dr3w> http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/sys/arch/sparc/stand/ofwboot/srt0.s
[20:26:39] <Dr3w> is the SPARC equiv. of the Haiku stage 1 x86 bootloader?
[20:27:17] <@geist> that's the sparc equivalent of "get shit ready to jump into C code"
[20:28:10] <Dr3w> so bootblock.bin ?
[20:28:28] <Dr3w> hi geist :)
[20:28:46] <Dr3w> sorry, .asm
[20:28:54] <@geist> no, it's just the equivalent of "get shit working". bootblock.asm is an x86 floppy loader
[20:29:07] <@geist> and also gets the x86 into protected mode and all that
[20:29:17] <@geist> if it's the same bootblock from newos that is
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[20:29:45] <Dr3w> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/open-beos/current/src/kernel/boot/arch/x86/bootblock.asm?rev=1.3&view=markup
[20:30:03] <@geist> yup
[20:30:11] <@geist> but anyway, that's just a floppy loader
[20:30:43] <Dr3w> oh yeah, it will be different for HD.
[20:30:58] * Dr3w sighs...
[20:31:08] <Dr3w> I need people round me who know what their talking about.
[20:31:10] <Dr3w> :)
[20:31:14] <@geist> anyway, booting an of machine is for the most part totally different than x86
[20:31:27] <@geist> x86 has a bunch of weird pecularities that no one else has to deal with
[20:31:37] <@geist> and on top of that PCs have weird ancient bioses
[20:31:40] <Dr3w> Oh, you all do, but I mean is I could kill for a week with someone sat in the same room as me working on something.
[20:31:55] <tic> moo
[20:31:57] <@geist> generally speaking booting an OF machine is pretty straightfoward. they usually understand ELF directly
[20:32:18] <Dr3w> hey tic
[20:32:22] <@geist> you just give them an ELF file (I always netboot) and it loads and jumps to you. one of the arguments it passes is the entry point to openfirmware
[20:32:27] <tic> yo drew.
[20:32:36] <@geist> to call openfirmware you jump back to that address with a structure describing what call to make
[20:32:52] <@geist> that's all basically the same with most variants of OF.
[20:33:08] <@geist> of course what you do with OF is another matter altogether
[20:33:39] <@geist> but you could basically write a program that uses OF as it's device layer. solaris basically does this. If you ever shut solaris down it just drops back to OF, as if it was just another program it loaded
[20:34:09] <Dr3w> silo seems to imply that it has a similar way of loading the system as intel, 512 byte stage 1 loader...
[20:34:41] <@geist> the closest to OF is grub
[20:35:01] <@geist> grub is smart enough to read into filesystems, find the file, parse the ELF header, load it, all while putting the system intop protected mode, etc
[20:35:19] <@geist> virtually all read bootloaders do this. At Be, it's what zbeos did
[20:35:45] <@geist> it was smart enough to poke into bfs partitions, find the kernel and other boot modules, load them and link them together and then jump into the kernel
[20:35:52] <@geist> on NT it's called ntloader
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[20:38:05] <tic> so the NT kernel needn't bother with that, or what?
[20:39:51] <@geist> bother with what?
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[20:47:02] <_jasper_> cu
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[20:51:20] <tic> geist, setting up pmode.  ntloader does it instead.
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[20:51:43] <_jasper_> re
[20:51:48] <tic> wb
[20:55:32] <@geist> right
[20:56:04] <@geist> but setting up pmode is really no big deal. once you know how to do it it it's only like 20 lines of code
[20:56:05] <Dr3w> ok, so on sparc your basically making a stage 2 loader straight away?
[20:56:25] <tic> mov eax, 0; mov r0, eax? :)
[20:56:48] <Dr3w> well, call me *really* stupid, but if you can read elf straight away, why does netbsd have that asm that gets ready to jump to c?
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[20:57:38] <@geist> probably want to set up their own stack or something
[20:59:35] <Dr3w> why would you need to do that?
[21:01:05] <@geist> because you dont know what the OF stack is like
[21:01:15] <@geist> in osdev things are a little different in general
[21:01:34] <@geist> usually you want to control everything. if the OF hands you a stack how do you know how big it is or where the pages are located, etc
[21:01:39] <@geist> it's easier to just set up your own
[21:02:04] <Dr3w> ok, so if I were writing a Haiku loader, I would probably want to do this.
[21:02:23] <Dr3w> so that should be my first step.
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[21:02:55] <@geist> heh, you have absolutely no idea what you're getting into, do you?
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[21:03:21] <@geist> furthermore, sparcs are very screwy and in general a PITA to deal with
[21:03:31] <@geist> since you pretty immediately need to set up a register fill/spill exception
[21:03:31] <Dr3w> a little, I know I am probably not going to be able to do it, but if I didn't try everything I didn't think I could do then I would never do anything I suppose...
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[21:04:46] <tic> Wow, the new Google feature is immensely(sp?) cool!
[21:04:51] <tic> err, new autopopup
[21:04:59] <@geist> well, so from our point of view it's this: yes you probably wont get anywhere, but you will probably learn. however I dont know if I should take time out of my day to help someone that has basically no chance
[21:05:04] <@geist> I do, but only up to a point
[21:05:21] <@geist> tic: yeah I have no idea how it works
[21:05:28] <@geist> must be something out of band
[21:06:01] <tic> "out of band" ?
[21:06:06] <@geist> well, not in the page
[21:06:13] <tic> Yeah.
[21:06:15] <@geist> if you look at the page it's pretty much totally static
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[21:06:20] <tic> Mhm.
[21:06:21] <@geist> but somehow it's still transferring data
[21:06:26] <tic> yah.
[21:06:29] <tic> I'm trying to find where it's doing it.
[21:06:35] <tic> I mean, you -can- open sockets in Javascript
[21:06:40] <tic> that's what Nevow.LivePage does.
[21:06:49] <@geist> and it works on lots of browsers so it's not a new feature thing I dont think
[21:06:53] <tic> Calls back into your Python app when you do something on the web page.
[21:07:29] <tic> (a thin layer of javascript glue that, through the socket, tells the server someone entered text, clicked a button, or whatever, and then sends data back)
[21:07:36] <tic> s/that/which
[21:07:49] <@geist> but if that was the case you'd see the javascript int he google page
[21:08:23] <tic> InstallAC(document.f,document.f.q,document.f.btnG,"search","en");
[21:09:22] <tic> and there's a qs() function that does some regexp trickery
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[21:11:08] <tic> geist, for example, take a look at: http://dundermusen.mine.nu:8080
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[21:43:03] <tic> sys2, d'oh, missed ya. :)
[21:44:39] <sys2> :P
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[21:57:27] <Dr3w> ah crap, I miss-judged how much rice I was making. I have enough to feed most of the thrid-world...
[21:57:56] <Dr3w> wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't just having rice on its own!
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[22:26:41] <AtomoC64> http://www.bebits.com/app/4031 RULEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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[23:20:28] <Dr3w> would ports of Haiku to other arch's be able to take advantage of things like more GPR's, or would it just loose out because its been been developed on x86?
[23:20:54] <tic> what's a GPR?
[23:21:39] <Dr3w> general purpose register?
[23:22:14] <Dr3w> x86 has 8, SPARC has 128, amd64 has 16.
[23:22:29] <@mmu_man> SPARC can't use all at once
[23:22:35] <@mmu_man> they are used inside a sliding window
[23:22:38] <Dr_Evil> it would take advantage, since it's written in C and C++ the compiler would use those registers
[23:22:57] <Dr3w> ah OK, so thats something the compiler takes care of?
[23:22:59] * Dr_Evil hates sliding register windows
[23:23:03] <@mmu_man> Dr3w 8 on x86 ?
[23:23:20] <@mmu_man> hmm eax, ebx, ecx, edx... w8 edx is frame offset
[23:23:22] <@mmu_man> that makes 3 :D
[23:24:00] <Dr_Evil> well there is esi, edi,
[23:24:21] <@mmu_man> not gpr
[23:24:25] <@mmu_man> index registers
[23:24:26] <Dr_Evil> ebx is GOT
[23:24:48] <@mmu_man> right for PIC code...
[23:24:54] <@mmu_man> 22:24:54 <@mmu_man>	 2 left :)
[23:25:10] <@mmu_man> no wonder x86 code is slow :)
[23:25:11] <Dr3w> can you write C code that would take advantage of the extra registers, or is that *really* up to the compiler?
[23:25:48] <@mmu_man> Dr3w you can hint the compiler to which variables should be cached in registers with the register keyword
[23:25:54] <tic> mostly useless though.
[23:25:55] <Dr3w> and would the same code compiled for SPARC or MIPS always be faster than x86 on the same clock speed hardware (or is that too hard to say)
[23:25:56] <@mmu_man> but really usually it makes a good job by itself
[23:26:19] <tic> but you can use esi, edi, e[a-d]x as general-purpose regs on p-mode x86 as well.
[23:27:19] <Dr_Evil> code like this sucks:
[23:27:20] <Dr_Evil> mov    %eax, 0xfffffff8(%ebp)
[23:27:21] <Dr_Evil> add    $0xffffffe8, %eax
[23:27:22] <Dr_Evil> mov    0xfffffffc(%ebp), %eax
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[23:27:35] <tic> yeah.
[23:27:47] <tic> IA32 sucks
[23:27:59] <Dr_Evil> ok bad examle, the offset should be the same for the example
[23:28:22] <Dr_Evil> x86 always requires this, and 64 bit operations look even worse
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[23:30:19] <tic> yup..
[23:30:29] * tic remember doing x86 _app_ coding in 16-bit mode.
[23:30:30] <Dr_Evil> have a look at atomic_add64 , thats an example for bad 64 not code http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/open-beos/current/src/kernel/libroot/os/arch/x86/atomic.S?rev=1.5&view=auto
[23:30:31] <tic> *shiver*
[23:33:40] <@mmu_man> zzz
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[23:36:29] <Dr_Evil> mmu_man I don't get this, what was I doing when I wrote these functions? Why was I messing with esp and ebp? mdan
[23:36:31] <Dr_Evil> damn
[23:37:08] <@mmu_man> maybe you didn't have your glasses :)
[23:37:12] <Dr_Evil> going to sleep now. I know that code is tested and working, I just don't understand it anymore
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[23:37:19] <@mmu_man> lol
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[23:39:17] <Dr_Evil> movl                12(%esp), %ebp  /* value */
[23:39:22] <Dr_Evil> movl                (%ebp), %eax    /* testAgainst low
[23:39:32] <Dr_Evil> looks *very wrong*
[23:39:39] <Dr_Evil> I think I will check this tomorrow
[23:41:10] <Dr_Evil> hmm, perhaps ok, since value is a pointer. still, this needs some checking
[23:41:12] <ShackaN> YAHOO! I just installed vmware on debian sid !
[23:41:19] <Dr_Evil> night
[23:41:31] <@mmu_man> yeah zzz
[23:41:33] <ShackaN> 'nacht, doctor
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