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[17:57:13] <CIA-6> mwilber * current/src/prefs/datatranslations/ (IconView.cpp IconView.h): Moved icon drawing out of the BWindow class and into this BView class to fix the repainting issues.
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[17:59:23] <bs0> can anyone test my ftp ?
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[18:00:16] <[Beta]> sure(?) how do you want it tested..
[18:02:50] <sys2> download his whole pr0nn folder
[18:04:13] <[Beta]> maybe at the end of the week, heh.. :)
[18:04:21] <tic> Hrm..
[18:04:27] <[Beta]> 56ker currently
[18:04:32] <tic> Can't get a BQuery to work :/
[18:05:07] <CIA-6> beveloper * current/src/kits/media/MediaExtractor.cpp: avoid reading tracks which are not supported by the reader
[18:06:08] <CIA-6> mwilber * current/src/prefs/datatranslations/ (3 files):
[18:06:09] <CIA-6> Beginnings of refactoring. Removed unnessecary member variables, removed commented out code, renamed some member v
[18:06:09] <CIA-6> ariables to meet style guidelines, fixed icon repainting by moving icon drawing to its own BView class. Still need
[18:06:09] <CIA-6> to check for more unnessecary member variables, fix more style issues and resolve behavior differences between the
[18:06:09] <CIA-6> Haiku and Be versions of this preference panel.
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[18:10:26] <CIA-6> beveloper * current/src/add-ons/media/plugins/matroska/ (matroska_codecs.cpp matroska_codecs.h):
[18:10:26] <CIA-6> Added support for AVI file compatible video codecs, works.
[18:10:26] <CIA-6> Added vorbis audio support, doesn't work yet.
[18:11:50] <CIA-6> beveloper * current/src/add-ons/media/plugins/matroska/ (matroska_reader.cpp matroska_util.cpp matroska_util.h): basic video playback support, seeking works, too.
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[18:46:56] <tic> I need some help: http://rafb.net/paste/results/smAcPD66.html
[18:49:26] <Procton> why do you not check the error before trying to get the name?
[18:49:41] <tic> nevermind.  I found the problem :P
[18:49:46] <tic> I did that first.
[18:49:51] <tic> but for some reason I moved it.
[18:49:57] <[Beta]> .
[18:50:03] <Procton> what was wrong?
[18:50:46] <tic> BQuery::SetVolume() :) I used to have it there, but for some reason I removed the line.
[18:50:55] <tic> okay, converting to a live query instead.
[18:50:57] <Procton> ah.
[18:53:35] <tic> But live queries still don't seem to work. Hrm.
[18:54:25] <Procton> and the target is a valid bmessenger?
[18:54:46] <sys2> ough
[18:55:21] <sys2> nah ... gonna go and do some work for a change :P
[18:55:44] <tic> Procton, yeah.  I can send a message using SendMessage().
[18:55:54] <tic> Procton, ... and it arrives to my window. :)
[18:56:44] <tic> But for some reason, no messages are sent with the query.
[18:56:53] <tic> it says it's a live query and all (IsLive())
[18:57:22] <Procton> how do you test it?
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[18:57:34] <Procton> only the new notifications are sent to the messengers.
[18:57:42] <tic> Procton, "new" ?
[18:57:46] <tic> ahh
[18:58:10] <tic> So I need to manually iterate through the list after the Fetch() to get the initial results. Is that correct?
[18:58:20] <Procton> yup.
[18:58:25] <tic> d'oh.
[18:58:28] * tic slaps forehead
[18:58:29] <tic> thanks!
[18:58:31] <Procton> beware of synchronization though.
[18:58:36] <tic> as in.. ?
[18:58:52] <Procton> since you can be doing the iteration while new results are received.
[18:59:01] <tic> ah, yeah.
[18:59:04] <tic> What happens then?
[18:59:20] <tic> Perhaps I should just do a static query in a separate thread.
[18:59:26] <Procton> your application would most likely be confused.
[18:59:28] <tic> 'cause I don't really need live queries.
[18:59:30] <tic> mhm.
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[19:05:48] <CIA-6> beveloper * current/src/add-ons/media/plugins/matroska/ (matroska_reader.cpp matroska_util.cpp matroska_util.h):
[19:05:48] <CIA-6> IA-6>	I don't know if returning pixel aspect ratios like 14097:10000 is nice,
[19:05:48] <CIA-6> but at least it's not that broken as always using 1:1
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[19:20:12] <CIA-6> beveloper * current/src/add-ons/media/plugins/matroska/matroska_reader.cpp: fixed seeking
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[19:35:47] <@Dr_Evil> hello BGA
[19:36:06] <@BGA> Dr_Evil: Hey. 'up?
[19:36:42] <@Dr_Evil> I added a matroska format reader
[19:37:22] <@Dr_Evil> but the aspect ratio isn't enough to pass the display info to the application when anamorphic video is to be played
[19:37:34] <@Dr_Evil> and the interface to the ogg decoder doesn't work as required
[19:37:43] <@Dr_Evil> get_pixel_aspect_ratio: pixel_width 696, pixel_height 288, display_width 832, display_height 352
[19:37:47] <@Dr_Evil> w_aspect 0.978056, h_aspect 1.000000, ratio 9781:10000
[19:38:16] <@Dr_Evil> the application rigt now gets width 696, height 288 and ratio 9781:10000
[19:38:53] <@Dr_Evil> but there is no way to the application to know that it should display it as 1:1 with height 352  width 832
[19:43:07] <@BGA> Hmmmmm... You're considering ways to solve this?
[19:43:15] <@BGA> Dr_Evil: BTW, are you on R5?
[19:43:24] <@BGA> Or, at least, using a Tracker other than Zeta's one?
[19:43:48] <@Dr_Evil> no, I'm using RC3 right now
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[19:44:16] <@Dr_Evil> BGA I will consider something next weekend, going on business tripp during next week :(
[19:44:35] <@BGA> Got that..
[19:44:36] <@BGA> Thanks.
[19:44:42] <@BGA> Anywone here runnoing R5?
[19:45:22] <BePage> me
[19:45:24] <BePage> but R5/bone
[19:58:14] <@BGA> BePage: No problem...
[19:58:15] <@BGA> Do me a favor...
[19:58:27] <@BGA> Open a Tracker window (any tracker window... Your home folder for instance...
[19:58:36] <@BGA> Swicth to Icon View if you're not using it...
[19:58:41] <@BGA> Select an icon...
[19:59:02] <@BGA> Is the icon name selected or not? i.e. does it get a black backgorund?
[20:00:58] <Procton> it is selected.
[20:01:29] <Procton> running OT though.
[20:06:58] <BePage> it is
[20:06:59] <BePage> New.Fs here
[20:13:58] <@BGA> Hmmmm... Ok, thanks.
[20:14:06] * BGA needs now to squash another bug. :P
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[20:16:22] <CIA-6> zooey * buildtools/gcc/libio/ (iostream.cc iostream.h):
[20:16:22] <CIA-6> -6>	- fixed problem with bdb-compatibility when compiling libstdc++ without
[20:16:22] <CIA-6> inlining (compatibility functions were missing from libstdc++.r4.so in that
[20:16:22] <CIA-6> case).
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[20:27:07] <@Dr_Evil> hi AndrewBachmann! I need you ;)
[20:27:16] <@AndrewBachmann> that's so sweet :-)
[20:27:26] <MrSiggler> awww... love is in the air.. ;)
[20:27:46] <MrSiggler> Or.. the.. server.. er.. yes..
[20:28:08] <@Dr_Evil> AndrewBachmann I addded a matroska reader
[20:28:18] <@Dr_Evil> but there is an issue with vorbis
[20:28:46] <@AndrewBachmann> you need to parse the vorbis headers into the meta data on the media_format ?
[20:28:49] <@Dr_Evil> the matroska container contains a private data section that is supposed to contain the first 3 ogg pages
[20:29:06] <@Dr_Evil> right now I'm settings this as meta data
[20:29:19] <@Dr_Evil> but you seem to have used a vector
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[20:29:45] <@Dr_Evil> I'm not even sure if making a binary copy of the meta data from the vector is correct
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[20:30:27] <@Dr_Evil> do you think it would be a good idea to make ogg put the raw packts into the meta data, and let vorbis parse them
[20:30:39] <@Dr_Evil> or can vorbis work without these packets perhaps?
[20:30:54] <@AndrewBachmann> vorbis can not work without the packets, they contain the code tables
[20:31:25] <@Dr_Evil> A_VORBIS  	Vorbis  	The private data contains the 3 first Vorbis packet in order. That means Identification Header, followed by Vorbis Comment followed by Codec Setup. The format of these data and how to differentiate them has to be defined ??? It should be the same as in the OGG container.
[20:31:38] <@Dr_Evil> from the Matroska websize
[20:31:43] <@Dr_Evil> site
[20:32:17] <@Dr_Evil> you can find sample files at http://www.matroska.org/samples/
[20:32:56] <@Dr_Evil> the anamorphic display of videos using the pixel aspect isn't going to work, I'll try to find a better way next week
[20:33:03] <@Dr_Evil> going on business trip duiring next week
[20:33:47] <@AndrewBachmann> what did you want to do for the meta data? you want an array of ogg_packet ?
[20:34:00] <@AndrewBachmann> seems equivalent to a vector to me
[20:34:29] <@Dr_Evil> I'm thinking about a raw copy
[20:34:47] <@Dr_Evil> just the raw packets one after another
[20:35:11] <@Dr_Evil> as done by matroska, but I'm not exactly sure how matroska is doing it
[20:35:25] <@AndrewBachmann> what do you mean by "raw packet"
[20:36:28] <@Dr_Evil> without that vector class, only the raw data
[20:36:58] <@Dr_Evil> I can't helop you, I thought making it the same as the matroska private codec data would be ok
[20:37:16] <@Dr_Evil> but i'm not exactly sure what matroska is doing
[20:37:35] <@AndrewBachmann> I don't know how matroska has it either
[20:38:29] <@AndrewBachmann> btw, because of that "ogg packet has a pointer" thing, I had the ogg extractor keep a copy of the header packets around
[20:42:48] <@AndrewBachmann> perhaps it would be possible to separate the three ogg packets and their data like we did with the media_header
[20:44:58] <@AndrewBachmann> anyway Dr_Evil if you can figure out an appropriate way to do it from the matroska extractor then I can change the ogg extractor to do it similarly
[20:45:19] <@AndrewBachmann> or, maybe if I can get a chance sometime soon, I can look into that issue
[20:45:50] <@Dr_Evil> matroska gives you one data block that is supposed to contain 3 packets
[20:46:33] <@AndrewBachmann> I wonder if it is a "micro ogg stream" that will need libogg to parse
[20:46:37] <@AndrewBachmann> I hope not
[20:46:41] <@Dr_Evil> I don't have the time to do anything until next weekend, need to pack my suitcase
[20:46:52] <@AndrewBachmann> I'll be traveling next weekend too
[20:47:13] <@AndrewBachmann> I'll see if I can do it tonight
[20:47:33] <@AndrewBachmann> can you send me the start of a matroska file with vorbis audio?
[20:47:40] <@AndrewBachmann> or was there one on that website?
[20:48:15] <@Dr_Evil> use the mewmew sample from the website
[20:48:58] <@AndrewBachmann> heh, it seems I already have that file :-)
[20:49:04] <@Dr_Evil> GetAudioFormat: codec 'A_VORBIS', private data size 3910
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[21:05:56] <@AndrewBachmann> MatroskaParser.c:2119: undefined reference to `strlcpy'
[21:06:53] <@Dr_Evil> hehe, works well here with zeta
[21:07:27] <@Dr_Evil> yes, zeta has strlcpy
[21:08:09] <@Dr_Evil> can you add a workaround for that?
[21:09:16] <@Dr_Evil> #define strlcpy(a,b,c) strcpy(a,b)
[21:10:07] <@Dr_Evil> we obviously need a self hosted kernel
[21:10:11] <@AndrewBachmann> I can't have too much confidence in that
[21:10:28] <@Dr_Evil> static void  strlcpy(char *dst,const char *src,unsigned size) {
[21:10:29] <@Dr_Evil> unsigned  i;
[21:10:29] <@Dr_Evil> Nov 07 20:10:29 <@Dr_Evil>
[21:10:30] <@Dr_Evil> for (i=0;i+1<size && src[i];++i)
[21:10:30] <@Dr_Evil> dst[i] = src[i];
[21:10:31] <@Dr_Evil> if (i<size)
[21:10:31] <@Dr_Evil> dst[i] = 0;
[21:10:33] <@Dr_Evil> }
[21:10:43] <@AndrewBachmann> yeah I noticed
[21:19:06] <@AndrewBachmann> the media extractor thread is crashing here, it does that for you?
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[21:22:37] <@Dr_Evil> yes, but I fixed that in libmedia.so about 3 hours ago
[21:22:43] <@AndrewBachmann> ah ok
[21:24:56] <@AndrewBachmann> ok, some good news
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[21:25:02] <@AndrewBachmann> it's not an ogg mini stream
[21:30:58] <@Dr_Evil> :-)
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[21:38:28] <@AndrewBachmann> it doesn't look like ogg_packets though
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[21:45:41] <TuneTracker> Procton
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[21:50:56] <tic> TuneTracker, you've got mail.
[21:51:25] <TuneTracker> tic
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[22:06:58] <@mahlzeit> heh heh --> http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/07/ground.zero.suicide.ap/index.html
[22:08:02] <@AndrewBachmann> Dr_Evil the obvious interpretations of that raw data don't work
[22:08:28] <MikeW> oh yeah, the authorities are more worried about how he got in than what he did
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[22:09:01] <@Dr_Evil> AndrewBachmann sorry I can't help you with that
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[22:10:27] <@AndrewBachmann> I'm going to check oggds
[22:11:21] <@Dr_Evil> perhaps checking another player is useful, like mplayer, gstreamer, xine
[22:12:48] <@Dr_Evil> xine_fast_memcpy (buf->content, track->codec_private, buf->size);
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[22:15:07] <@AndrewBachmann> unable to establish connection
[22:15:18] <@Dr_Evil> nb_lace = track->codec_private[0];
[22:15:19] <@Dr_Evil> if (nb_lace != 2)
[22:15:20] <@Dr_Evil> return;
[22:15:20] <@Dr_Evil> Nov 07 21:15:20 <@Dr_Evil>
[22:15:20] <@Dr_Evil> frame[0] = track->codec_private[1];
[22:15:21] <@Dr_Evil> frame[1] = track->codec_private[2];
[22:15:21] <@Dr_Evil> frame[2] = track->codec_private_len - frame[0] - frame[1] - 3;
[22:16:22] <@Dr_Evil> from src/demuxers/demux_matroska.c of xine-lib-1-rc6a
[22:18:02] <@Dr_Evil> these seem to be the frame sizes
[22:18:05] <CIA-6> mwilber * current/src/prefs/datatranslations/Jamfile: Added IconView.cpp to Jamfile
[22:18:08] <@AndrewBachmann> horrors
[22:19:02] <@AndrewBachmann> ok, that's a completely unreasonable format
[22:20:57] <@AndrewBachmann> and where is codec_private_len ?
[22:22:57] <@Dr_Evil> thats our meta data size
[22:23:23] <@Dr_Evil> and codec private is the meta data (uint8)
[22:27:09] <@AndrewBachmann> ok I figured it out
[22:27:42] <@AndrewBachmann> they don't pass some of the information
[22:28:41] <@AndrewBachmann> and so they sort of "make it up"
[22:29:25] <mumu25> i always thought there are detailed specs for codecs, but it looks like this is more a guess game?
[22:29:41] <@AndrewBachmann> :-)
[22:31:08] <@AndrewBachmann> Dr_Evil their encoding is based on assumptions that are unreasonable for vorbis
[22:31:32] <@AndrewBachmann> specifically: the size of the comment header is less than 256 bytes
[22:32:29] <@AndrewBachmann> that's the assumption that they make
[22:32:56] <@AndrewBachmann> ok Dr_Evil I will write something in the matroska demux to handle this issue
[22:33:53] * AndrewBachmann thinks that the matroska folk were being just a little too space conscientious here
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[22:38:00] <@AndrewBachmann> these C hackers are annoying
[22:38:27] <@AndrewBachmann> they seem to think that by naming their variables generic, they'll make their code more generic :-D
[22:38:52] <mumu25> hehe
[22:39:24] <mumu25> i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t,v = 0;
[22:39:57] <mumu25> ^ int
[22:40:01] <frozenet> who's a C hacker?
[22:40:25] <@AndrewBachmann> whoever wrote the code that Dr_Evil pasted to me
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[22:43:49] <@Dr_Evil> AndrewBachmann I agree with that
[22:43:59] <@Dr_Evil> the code is from xine
[22:44:33] <@Dr_Evil> AndrewBachmann but your assumtion about passing a vector through a raw data struct isn't ok either
[22:45:05] <frozenet> i heard about it
[22:45:09] <@AndrewBachmann> why is that?
[22:51:05] <CIA-6> nwhitehorn * current/src/kits/mail/RemoteStorageProtocol.cpp: Fixed a crashing bug that would occur if mails were placed during an IMAP session in the root hierarchy of the IMAP directory structure with a non-NULL mailbox root prefix
[22:52:58] <@AndrewBachmann> hmm I've come up with two reasons so far to remove the ogg_packets from the meta data for the ogg media_format
[22:54:15] <@Dr_Evil> whatever you get, it is unsave to cast this into a vector object
[22:54:49] <@AndrewBachmann> why?
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[23:12:49] <@AndrewBachmann> hmann>	hm I think I see why
[23:13:01] <@Korli> hi AndrewBachmann
[23:14:43] <@AndrewBachmann> Dr_Evil I got the codec to initialize
[23:14:58] <@AndrewBachmann> but every buffer that comes to it is invalid :-)
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[23:19:07] <@AndrewBachmann> uh all the chunkSizes are 1??
[23:20:21] <@AndrewBachmann> oh ok not all 1
[23:24:49] <@AndrewBachmann> Dr_Evil do you have some "handle vorbis buffer" code from xine?
[23:26:42] <@Dr_Evil> no
[23:26:52] <@AndrewBachmann> ok
[23:26:58] <@AndrewBachmann> the chunks don't make sense
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[23:27:35] <@Dr_Evil> it's possible that the stream that you get isn't really vorbis if there is a bug in the reader
[23:28:18] <@AndrewBachmann> well, I'm pretty confident that you aren't going to give the vorbis decoder anything like the ogg extractor is
[23:28:33] <@AndrewBachmann> because the ogg extractor puts an ogg_packet structure into the user_data (as we discussed just recently)
[23:28:51] <@AndrewBachmann> that data has to be represented somehow though...
[23:29:56] <@AndrewBachmann> I'm getting negative chunk sizes from the reader :-)
[23:30:51] <@AndrewBachmann> oh, no I'm reading it backwards
[23:31:01] <@AndrewBachmann> the data is negative, chunk sizes all reasonably positive
[23:31:51] <ShackaN> wow
[23:32:07] <@Dr_Evil> I'm busy ironing cloth, it's already 23:40
[23:32:32] <ShackaN> AndrewBachmann, what are you decoding ?
[23:32:59] <@AndrewBachmann> vorbis in matroska
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[23:33:14] <ShackaN> uhm
[23:33:27] <ShackaN> and matroska is some particular format ?
[23:34:11] <ShackaN> I've never heard about that, who uses it ?
[23:35:24] <@AndrewBachmann> ask google :-)
[23:36:27] <ShackaN> done
[23:36:28] <frozenet> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=matroska
[23:36:36] <frozenet> ld-anime.faireal.net/guide/matroska
[23:37:08] <ShackaN> uhm
[23:37:24] <frozenet> you're not adding support for that to Haiku are you?
[23:37:25] <ShackaN> but it's not a widely adopted thing, right ?
[23:37:32] <frozenet> no
[23:37:35] <frozenet> definitely not...
[23:37:39] <ShackaN> so.., why do you do that ? :D
[23:37:40] <frozenet> i never heard of it before you mentioned it
[23:38:07] <frozenet> don't support it...
[23:38:21] <frozenet> unless the whole internet world is willing to change
[23:38:29] <@AndrewBachmann> go away
[23:38:34] <frozenet> no good having another standard floating out there
[23:39:11] <frozenet> it's annoying enough having to download a minimal of 3 players to play things online
[23:39:27] <ShackaN> ya
[23:39:41] <@AndrewBachmann> you seem to be confused
[23:39:44] <[Beta]> for all the advantages, naturally.
[23:39:46] <[Beta]> "Matroska is more compact (roughly, OGM 175MB = Matroska 174MB)"
[23:39:47] <frozenet> i must be
[23:39:51] <[Beta]> They seem to think so.
[23:40:03] <[Beta]> anyhow, Haiku is a media OS, let it support media.
[23:41:53] <Azalyn> Matroska is a container, how can it be 'more compact' ...
[23:42:34] <[Beta]> it uses thinner boxes ?
[23:42:38] <Azalyn> Not to mention that usually more compression means the decoding is more resource-intensive, which for one MB is so not worth it.
[23:42:48] <frozenet> a 1MB isn't gonna make much of a difference when you're burning these things to CDs
[23:43:34] <Azalyn> As far as I know OGM does multiple subtitles and audio tracks too.
[23:43:52] <[Beta]> read the link someone just pasted.
[23:44:02] <[Beta]> "The subtitles in OGM are incompatible with Unicode / ISO"
[23:44:06] <Azalyn> Apparently Matroska's only advantage in that area is the ability to use SSA subtitles, which is what anime groups use to create all those special effects
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[23:44:35] <[Beta]> thats one good reason for it already. plus its using binary XML, which is a good idea
[23:44:43] <Azalyn> But again there, ssa subs are pretty rescource-intensive if you play them in realtime..
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[23:45:22] <frozenet> can i add GNU programs to BeOS?
[23:45:28] <Azalyn> Well, the biggest use for subs usually in the encoding sceene is for anime.
[23:45:36] <frozenet> i mean
[23:45:38] <frozenet> Haiku
[23:45:45] <Azalyn> And anime groups hard-encode the subs into the video stream
[23:45:57] <Azalyn> They dont layer them.
[23:46:11] <sys2> frozenet, do you mean use gnu tools etc?
[23:46:25] <Azalyn> Many groups are also paranoid of other groups stealing their translations, so they dont like the idea of soft-subs.
[23:46:36] <[Beta]> DVDs use bitmapped subtitles, its horrible Azalyn.
[23:46:43] <frozenet> i mean add something that has an GLP license to the Haiku tree
[23:46:57] <sys2> ohh :>
[23:47:00] <frozenet> or is that not allowed till the next release?
[23:47:12] <[Beta]> frozenet: GPL code is in the tree, but you use a configure flag to toogle their build
[23:47:28] <frozenet> but can i add some?
[23:47:30] <[Beta]> o/g
[23:47:32] <frozenet> like port a program?
[23:47:52] <[Beta]> of course, but you might want to put it on bebits instead.
[23:48:02] <frozenet> oh ok
[23:48:04] <frozenet> good idea
[23:48:07] <frozenet> if i ever get this working
[23:48:18] <sys2> what are you working on ? :>
[23:48:23] <frozenet> is Haiku netserver (or whatever network thing they use) working yet?
[23:48:35] <frozenet> i'm trying to port SOME IMing software
[23:48:44] <frozenet> which is what BeOS/Haiku lacks right now
[23:48:56] <[Beta]> what about the IM Kit
[23:49:06] <frozenet> didn't work for me last time i checked
[23:49:10] <sys2> frozenet, i believe it works but i dunno about the status of the dhcp bart :>
[23:49:44] <sys2> frozenet, atleast someone here has used it ... but i think firefox etc does not work yet .. if the status havent changed since last i saw something about it :>
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[23:50:40] <frozenet> will it be more compatible/as compatible as BONE?
[23:50:55] <frozenet> or would people have to rewrite codes to port to BeOS?
[23:51:03] <frozenet> s/beos/haiku
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[23:52:18] <sys2> frozenet, i think its BONE inspired yes...
[23:52:22] <sys2> BSD sockets
[23:52:23] <Azalyn> I wonder, are you guys using any code from other noncopyleft projects to speed up the work or just going about it all from scratch?
[23:52:27] <frozenet> good!
[23:52:32] <sys2> frozenet, me thinks so to :>
[23:52:32] <[Beta]> I was doing a google for something, 'pparently BGA was working on a bluetooth stack, any news on that?
[23:52:41] <frozenet> BSD sockets are goodi i think...
[23:52:49] <frozenet> i got to learn more about those things
[23:53:20] <sys2> frozenet, and having those makes it alot more x-platform as all OSes are based on em .. almost :P
[23:53:37] <sys2> windows has its layer over it but its barkley at the bottom ... (isnt BSD sockets the barkley sockets?)
[23:53:45] <sys2> spelling? :>
[23:53:51] <Azalyn> berkley i think
[23:54:10] <ShackaN> should be Berkeley
[23:54:19] <Azalyn> Or that.
[23:54:56] <ShackaN> whatever :D
[23:54:58] <frozenet> weird to think one company/university invented something that became so widely used on the internet...
[23:55:10] <ShackaN> why weird ?
[23:55:28] <frozenet> they do DBs
[23:55:34] <sys2> frozenet, isnt that how it goes all the time as long as its not MS and closed source? :P
[23:55:53] <sys2> MS would be nothing without opensource :/
[23:56:14] <slaad> What didn't work. [Beta]?
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[23:56:41] <ShackaN> well, and there would be no macosx without mach, and no linux without opensource in general either, so..
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[23:57:23] <[Beta]> I'd like to get my mobile to have some connectivity (it'd be nice to write a PIM to work with People); anyhow, I can connect it via either usb-serial or bluetooth.
[23:57:30] <[Beta]> or irda, but I hate irda
[23:57:43] <Azalyn> hm..
[23:58:20] <mmadia> [Beta] what about Mr. Peeps!  ?  http://www.bebits.com/app/3483
[23:58:21] <Azalyn> "widely used on the internet" ? I'd think crucial to the very heart of the internet is more accurate...
[23:58:34] <Azalyn> BSD's TCP/IP stack is like, used in many operating systems isnt it?
[23:58:36] <slaad> Er, sorry, frozenet, not [Beta].
[23:58:45] * slaad whaps mmadia
[23:58:52] <slaad> You're meant to tout my software not other peoples ;)
[23:58:53] <mmadia> eh?
[23:59:04] <mmadia> snoopy?
[23:59:10] <slaad> Yes :P
[23:59:18] <mmadia> is a PIM?
[23:59:27] <[Beta]> it's kinda ugly :o
[23:59:54] <slaad> It's a multi-purpose configurable attribute viewer.





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