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[01:26:25] <Rienzilla> mmmh
[01:26:43] <Rienzilla> should I be able to import vm's exported from xenserver 5.5 or 5.6 into an 5.6fp1 server?
[01:44:30] <kdavy_> Rienzilla, yes, you should
[01:46:09] <Rienzilla> [root@almdudler /]# xe vm-import filename=/mnt/moxie/20110328-moxie.xva
[01:46:10] <Rienzilla> Error code: CLIENT_ERROR
[01:46:12] <Rienzilla> Error parameters:
[01:46:27] <Rienzilla> this happens instantly
[01:47:00] <kdavy_> have you upgraded your XenCenter to latest version as well?
[01:47:21] <Rienzilla> yeah, this xencenter is also 5.6fp1
[01:47:30] <kdavy_> hmm... dont know then
[01:47:42] <Rienzilla> there's someone in the forum with the same issue
[01:47:49] <Rienzilla> but no resolution there
[01:48:27] <kdavy_> anyway i gotta go home. good luck with your issue - if you're around tomorrow i might be able to help troubleshoot
[01:48:33] <Rienzilla> ok, thanks
[01:48:39] <Rienzilla> have a nice day
[01:48:46] <kdavy_> thx :)
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[01:50:19] <Rienzilla> hmmm
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[03:03:56] <tabularasa> kdavy_: helicopter upgrade parts arrived.... giggity
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[04:15:23] <kdavy> tabularasa, nice. what are you upgrading?
[04:17:12] <tabularasa> http://bit.ly/e6iUgQ
[04:17:31] <tabularasa> easier to see the pictures.  :)
[04:22:23] <kdavy> tabularasa, what do you think about this as a hobby? http://cgi.ebay.com/British-Saladin-Armored-Car_W0QQitemZ200481089491QQcategoryZ588QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D1%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8273464099179234959
[04:22:29] <kdavy> it's street legal in TX
[04:22:46] <kdavy> ah, cool
[04:23:45] <tabularasa> heh, nice
[04:23:51] <tabularasa> I do this as a HOBBY!
[04:23:53] <tabularasa> lol
[04:24:11] <kdavy> tabularasa, can you imagine parallel parking that thing by rotating the turret?
[04:24:16] <tabularasa> lol
[04:24:25] <tabularasa> gonna hang with the girl.  i'll chat with ya later
[04:24:31] <kdavy> kk take care
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[13:43:57] <tabularasa> that thing is badass kdavy .... heh
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[13:49:12] <Rienzilla> kdavy_: apparently xe vm-import borks when the mount the .xva resides on is mounted ro
[13:49:19] <Rienzilla> (regarding the CLIENT_ERROR of yesterday)
[13:54:35] <jduggan> ive seent hat
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[14:26:46] <splatone> M0rNing
[14:29:03] <tabularasa> morning
[14:29:07] <tabularasa> this write cache thing is killing me
[14:29:17] <tabularasa> 16k desktops.... at 2GB each thats 32TB...
[14:29:22] <tabularasa> most likely needing SSD storage
[14:29:46] <tabularasa> Looking at about 12 avg IOPs per VDI..
[14:30:27] <tabularasa> thats about 58800 IOPs per "pod"
[14:30:33] <tabularasa> pod = 5000 VDIs
[14:30:45] <tabularasa> give or take
[14:31:12] <tabularasa> 32TB ???
[14:31:22] <tabularasa> i'm wondering if i can get away with 1GB write cache per system
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[15:12:00] <makson> tabularasa: that won't work, you have to include your page file in the write cache.
[15:12:28] <makson> haha, i was going threw same exersize with 1k desktops
[15:13:35] <tabularasa> ....
[15:13:37] <makson> 2GB WC is small even...
[15:13:43] <tabularasa> but 3GB of SSD.. damn'
[15:13:45] <makson> SSD is expensive too.
[15:13:55] <tabularasa> $ / gig, sure
[15:13:58] <makson> remember though on a reboot you gain your space back
[15:14:01] <tabularasa> sure
[15:14:07] <makson> how many of 16k are in use at one time
[15:14:14] <tabularasa> i'm assuing 90%
[15:14:17] <makson> ouch
[15:14:23] <makson> true, lab environments
[15:14:23] <tabularasa> its a school
[15:14:35] <makson> how many machines are at each school/
[15:14:35] <tabularasa> school system, rather
[15:14:39] <tabularasa> varies
[15:14:44] <makson> estimated..
[15:15:05] <makson> we'll how many schools?
[15:15:52] <makson> tabularasa: whiptail will be giving you a call today, bring these questions up with him for sure.
[15:16:05] <tabularasa> yeah, i'm reading up on Fuller
[15:16:08] <makson> i;m sure they would work wit you on price to for the reference account
[15:39:51] <gladier> has anyone had to diagnose performance issues with SMB?
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[15:58:22] <tabularasa> nope
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[16:22:05] <JarianGibson> oh your admin accout?
[16:23:02] <JarianGibson> wrong window
[16:23:10] <JarianGibson> monring be the way
[16:23:13] <JarianGibson> by
[16:25:33] <kdavy_> morning
[16:26:10] <kdavy_> hehe. who wants a System i570? they have one at the local computer recycling shop
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[16:26:30] <kdavy_> 4-way 4.7Ghz Power6, 96Gb RAM, no drives
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[16:30:24] <tabularasa> whats up JarianGibson
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[16:34:58] <JarianGibson> nada tabularasa
[16:35:00] <JarianGibson> you?
[16:35:14] <tabularasa> sos.. aside from this huge XD design
[16:35:47] <JarianGibson> i saw back log. nice
[16:36:02] <tabularasa> yeah, there are a lot of variables
[16:36:04] <tabularasa> i'm reading a lot now
[16:36:22] <tabularasa> i'm sure i'll get Citrix involved eventually, as i'm sure this will become a referecence design..
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[16:38:43] <kdavy_> tabularasa, i propose using 8000 Mac Mini Server machines with SSDs, XenServer and GPFS for storage
[16:39:01] <tabularasa> lol
[16:39:09] <tabularasa> What do you think of that Nimbus thing, kdavy_ ?
[16:39:19] <kdavy_> oh and Linksys switches to wire everything together
[16:39:38] <tabularasa> oh right!
[16:39:48] <kdavy_> tabularasa, hardware on Nimbus is good, the question is with software
[16:39:53] <tabularasa> i think a 1 to 1 optiplex rack mount workstation is a better way to go
[16:40:12] <kdavy_> I'm sure you could do the same with Nexenta SSD nodes - personally i'd lean toward that
[16:40:37] <tabularasa> Is Nexenta supported?
[16:40:41] <kdavy_> with an implementation this large, you could get site licensing for Nexenta (unlimited number of nodes and storage)
[16:40:49] <kdavy_> supported by Citrix? of course
[16:40:59] <tabularasa> i mean, can they call Nexenta when shit breaks
[16:41:11] <kdavy_> yes
[16:41:30] <kdavy_> Nexenta has 3 levels of support - silver, gold and platinum
[16:41:38] <tabularasa> i'll take a look
[16:42:17] <kdavy_> silver is like what you get from Citrix, gold is what i have (phone support, 4hr response time on email), platinum - you get a dedicated technical account rep to "expedite" issue resolution
[16:42:23] <tabularasa> so... i need to put my head around this.   whats the benefit of having a large pagefile when using PVS ?
[16:42:50] <kdavy_> same as having a large pagefile when not using PVS :-P
[16:43:04] <kdavy_> windows really doesn't like running out of addressable RAM
[16:44:32] <tabularasa> yeah, makes sense....
[16:44:52] <kdavy_> tabularasa, want me to talk to Nexenta for you? i can get details on site licensing, got a rep here in town
[16:45:01] <tabularasa> sure
[16:45:12] <tabularasa> i'd like to get some ideas
[16:45:29] <tabularasa> i'm talking to Compellent and Nimbus... EqualLogics just doesn't have the capacity
[16:45:50] <kdavy_> with platinum support site license would probably be on the order of $200-500k for software, plus your own hardware
[16:46:14] <tabularasa> yeah, thats gonna probably kill it
[16:46:26] <kdavy_> though if you're doing small cache pods, just getting regular licensing might be a lot cheaper
[16:46:36] <kdavy_> site license is for 2Pb+ deployments
[16:46:42] <kdavy_> :)
[16:47:18] <kdavy_> how many cache units did you count that you need so far, and what capacity of each?
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[16:48:56] <tabularasa> i'm guessing i will need 4 pods with ~8-10TB each
[16:50:58] <kdavy_> 10Gbe iScsi?
[16:51:17] <tabularasa> absolutely
[16:53:05] <kdavy_> ok, so if no clustering is required on cache unit level, software would be $23.1k
[16:54:49] <tabularasa> but you have to build your own hardware
[16:54:57] <tabularasa> I'm totally not against that, but the customer probably will be
[16:58:50] <kdavy_> tabularasa, if you're fine with ~25% higher hardware cost, you can get Pogolinux or another Nexenta VAR to build and support the hardware for you
[16:59:05] <kdavy_> they'll support the software to some extent too
[16:59:15] <tabularasa> yeah, i'd certainly look at that cost
[17:04:05] <kdavy_> want me to hook you up with a direct contact at both Nexenta and Pogo?
[17:04:30] <tabularasa> hell yeah
[17:04:55] <kdavy_> DM me your email, i'll send a request and cc: you
[17:05:19] <tabularasa> thanks
[17:05:24] <kdavy_> ok
[17:30:37] <kdavy_> sent
[17:38:43] <kdavy_> lmao. as soon as i sent it Nexenta engineers (not the sales guy) invited me to lunch
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[18:06:58] <JarianGibson> kdavy_: hey
[18:07:04] <JarianGibson> my buddy Tim_ is in here
[18:07:09] <JarianGibson> has questions about  nexenta
[18:09:39] <Tim_> does nexenta use ram for write caching or only for read?
[18:09:42] <kdavy_> JarianGibson, i'm here
[18:09:55] <kdavy_> Tim_, it uses RAM for both read and write caching
[18:10:04] <JarianGibson> so like datacore
[18:10:40] <JarianGibson> in that sense
[18:11:13] <kdavy_> the layers of Nexenta cache are: (ARC(read)+ZIL(write))+(L2ARC(read SSD)+non-volatile ZIL(write SSD))
[18:12:01] <kdavy_> all four can be enabled or disabled on a per-LUN basis depending on your speed vs. reliability tradeoff
[18:12:32] <kdavy_> also, with read cache, you have the option to use it for just metadata, or metadata+data, also per-LUN
[18:12:59] <Tim_> we've been looking at datacore some because it can store writes in RAM without any drives involve and flush later
[18:13:29] <kdavy_> yes, that's what RAM ZIL does - cache writes in RAM, flush every 30 seconds or less
[18:13:39] <Tim_> nice
[18:14:34] <Tim_> can you setup 2 nexenta hosts in a mirror so the RAM ZIL exists in a consistent state on both?
[18:15:31] <kdavy_> Tim_, no, you cannot mirror the cache, only the data
[18:16:35] <Tim_> datacore allows you to mirror the cache between the nodes, so the host sees them as different ports on the same storage if you've got MPIO type functionality
[18:16:54] <Tim_> but it doesn't have an L2ARC type middle layer
[18:16:59] <Tim_> or deduplication
[18:17:16] <kdavy_> but due to the way HA Cluster works in Nexenta, you don't need to - even though the cluster is marketed as active-active, it is really more of a failover cluster for volumes. You can have more than one active volume on each cluster node, and SSD ZIL belongs to that volume, so if you fail over your writes aren't lost
[18:19:13] <zaf> hmm, if you do a stand-alone xenserver with local storage, can you do on-disk snapshots?
[18:19:13] <Tim_> i need to read up on their HA
[18:21:40] <kdavy_> Tim_, they have two types: (Simple HA + Synchronous replication between nodes with local storage), or Cluster HA with shared storage
[18:21:56] <kdavy_> i'm using the Cluster one
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[18:45:08] <ScottCochran> Anyone familiar with Mandatory Profiles??
[18:59:40] <tabularasa> yeah, why
[18:59:44] <tabularasa> kdavy_: thanks
[19:00:22] <makson> citrix is outsourcing to india now :\ just got a call back from 91 country code.
[19:00:44] <kdavy_> tabularasa, no problem
[19:01:00] <tabularasa> kdavy_: what a fantastic description of the situation
[19:01:09] <tabularasa> you need a job?  ;)
[19:01:43] <kdavy_> tabularasa, no :) not at this time at least
[19:04:43] <tabularasa> makson: annoying
[19:08:06] <ScottCochran> tabularasa:  You are familiar with Man Profs?
[19:08:48] <kdavy_> tabularasa, though i have to admit - working on a project of this scale would be a ton of fun
[19:11:10] <tabularasa> ScottCochran: yes, whats up?
[19:11:17] <tabularasa> kdavy_: yes, i agree!
[19:16:25] <ScottCochran> tabularsa:  I am wrapping up a XenDesktop project with AppSense right now and cant seem to get the Mandatory working.  I copied the NTUSER.MAN to the Default Users folder on the master image and removed the Default Users NTUSER.DAT
[19:16:56] <ScottCochran> When a new user logs in I see a NTUSER.DAT and .MAN file in their new profile
[19:18:05] <ScottCochran> tabularsa:  sorry spelled your name wrong
[19:18:10] <tabularasa> heh, no prob
[19:18:36] <tabularasa> whats the location of the profile?
[19:18:40] <tabularasa> the man profile
[19:19:13] <tabularasa> and I assume the user already didn't have a profile on the server when you logged in
[19:19:35] <tabularasa> Oh, you are doing it from the default profile
[19:19:43] <tabularasa> i've only ever done it from a shared folder
[19:20:35] <ScottCochran> well I cant do it from a shared because the OS is Win XP and does not support that
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[19:24:42] <tabularasa> hmm?  sure it does
[19:25:07] <tabularasa> hmmmm.. i did it on 2003 TS...
[19:25:15] <tabularasa> not supported?  that makes no sense
[19:25:32] <ScottCochran> what do you mean?  XP does not support the TS Profile Path or any TS policies becuase it is not a TS
[19:26:13] <tabularasa> yeah, thats where i may be incorrect, but i find it hard to believe that if you create a \\domain.local\NETLOGON\Default User\ directory, that it won't pull that .man profile from it
[19:27:22] <ScottCochran> that would apply to every user
[19:27:49] <tabularasa> oh, you don't want it universal
[19:27:56] <ScottCochran> this is a XenDesktop POC, not the entire company is getting these settings
[19:28:23] <tabularasa> but you can define the profile path in AD and point it to the .man path
[19:30:10] <ScottCochran> yea but again that would apply to whereever the user logins on the domain.  This company has a couple XenApp farms, local PC's, and now POC of XenDesktop.  These settings can only apply to this POC environment
[19:30:28] <tabularasa> i gotcha
[19:30:38] <tabularasa> i don't think you can make the local default user profile a .man profile...
[19:30:45] <tabularasa> that might be the challenge
[19:31:53] <ScottCochran> According to AppSense you can but  I am seeing the new users profiles hae the .MAN and the .DAT in the profile
[19:32:05] <ScottCochran> not sure where the .DAT is coming from
[19:32:28] <tabularasa> yeah, i hear ya
[19:32:44] <tabularasa> its basically creating itself when you think it shouldn't be because you renamed the default user profile to .man
[19:33:40] <ScottCochran> yep
[19:33:59] <tabularasa> yeah, i've never encountered that.... i assume you can't setup new users for the POC ?
[19:34:10] <tabularasa> and why mandatory profiles?  aside from they are fast as crap
[19:35:47] <ScottCochran> What do you mean new users?  WIth AppSense you use a Mandatory and use their Personalization to capture the application settings for users
[19:36:09] <tabularasa> Gotcha.. I'm not familar with AppSense, sorry
[19:37:14] <ScottCochran> no worries thanls
[19:37:16] <ScottCochran> thanks*
[19:41:31] <tabularasa> yup, sorry i can't help you more
[19:42:26] <makson> meson: are you around to help ScottCochran he hs some appsense questions... :)
[19:42:43] <ScottCochran> THanks
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[20:54:15] <tabularasa> meson: ScottCochran was having some AppSense issues
[20:54:36] <tabularasa> Does the latest and greatest PVS run on R2 ?
[20:55:47] <makson> tabularasa: sure does.
[20:57:02] <ScottCochran> yea this project runs the latest PVS on R2
[21:02:05] <JarianGibson> yes it does
[21:02:12] <JarianGibson> anyone testing sp1?
[21:02:32] <ScottCochran> Server 08 R2 SP1 or PvS 5.6 SP1?
[21:02:45] <JarianGibson> server 08 r2 sp1
[21:03:09] <ScottCochran> I deployed it on this current project for XenApp 6
[21:03:39] <ScottCochran> Theres a known issue and hotfix for XenApp 6 and 08 R2 SP1
[21:04:40] <ScottCochran> bascially there you will sit a a black screen at login.  You must reboot the server, login and apply the hotfix
[21:05:10] <JarianGibson> hotfix 2 or 3?
[21:07:26] <ScottCochran> http://support.citrix.com/article/CTX125388
[21:07:44] <JarianGibson> yep that's it
[21:07:53] <JarianGibson> i knew it was one of the early ones
[21:10:17] <ScottCochran> yea I remember our Cheif Engineer applied SP1 right when it came out to the engineer XenApp 6 pool and he sent out a post that night with the fix
[21:12:09] <ScottCochran> JarianGibson:  You ever used Mandatory Profiles with XenDesktop/Win XP?
[21:12:58] <JarianGibson> ScottCochran: nope all upm
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[21:13:40] <ScottCochran> yea I am deploying AppSense with this project so I need a Mandatory
[21:22:28] <JarianGibson> something like http://appsense.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/some-mandatory-profile-best-practices/
[21:24:06] <tabularasa> makson: whiptail != nimbus ?
[21:24:25] <tabularasa> you recommended nimbus first
[21:27:33] <makson> tabularasa: nimbus has a cheaper price point that's all, but no product to show for it.
[21:27:39] <tabularasa> gotcha
[21:27:50] <tabularasa> they are badmouthing them now.  :)
[21:27:53] <makson> whiptail has proven track record bit higher price, but great product, and resources to asssit.
[21:27:57] <makson> ha
[21:28:07] <makson> he's stating the truth... i saw it first hand
[21:28:17] <makson> i feel bad for the dude, he's prob trying to get off the ground.
[21:28:28] <makson> but i had a deal with 4 units, and he could't produce a demo unit for us.
[21:28:30] <makson> so the deal was lost.
[21:29:04] <makson> kept saying it was in shipment, or had an excuse why it was late every time.. it was either a horrible streak of bad luck, or just no product? or limited.
[21:29:11] <makson> tabularasa: you talking to whiptial now?
[21:29:16] <tabularasa> yeah, bah... Citrix endorsing Whiptail helps
[21:29:17] <tabularasa> yes
[21:33:37] <JarianGibson> nimbus = unicorn
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[21:35:44] <ScottCochran> JarianGibson:  Good AppSense article!  I just need to figure out the best way to apply the Mandatory to XP user since ther can use the TS Path GPO
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[21:44:50] <JarianGibson> isn't something like \\server\share\profile\ntuser.man for mandatory?  if i remember correctly
[21:49:52] <ScottCochran> JarianGibson:  What do you mean?  Win XP cant use the TS policies in GP
[21:51:29] <JarianGibson> duh, correct
[21:51:45] <JarianGibson> i was thinking purely mandatory
[21:52:56] <ScottCochran> yea I am going to try using a Local GPO on XP to point to it
[21:53:23] <JarianGibson> i forgot about xp
[21:53:31] <JarianGibson> that was a duh on me
[21:53:35] <ScottCochran> yea XP sucks for VDI
[21:53:49] <ScottCochran> Vista and 7 have policies for this
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[22:40:29] <tabularasa> kdavy_: 1200Watts?
[22:41:10] <kdavy_> tabularasa, that chassis only comes in 900 and 1200W
[22:41:28] <tabularasa> yeah, wow
[22:41:29] <kdavy_> but it will only use what's needed - those PSUs are very efficient
[22:41:35] <tabularasa> the Whiptail is less than 200watts
[22:41:39] <tabularasa> ah, gotcha
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[22:42:07] <kdavy_> there's just no point in getting more expensive 1200W PSUs if all you need is 200-300W or so
[22:42:48] <kdavy_> now if you were running 24x15k rpm drives and Xeon X56xx series, i could understand the need, but you're not going to
[22:43:52] <kdavy_> anyway, Paul knows what he's doing - my own Nexenta design was inspired by his, i just didn't need hardware to be supported by a 3rd party
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[23:37:53] <tabularasa> kdavy_: gotcha... sounds good





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