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[01:34:52] * tabularasa is annoyed
[01:34:58] <tabularasa> AGEE callback is failing and i can't figure out why
[01:35:08] <JarianGibson> ssl cert
[01:35:09] <JarianGibson> dns
[01:35:20] <tabularasa> its a real SSL cert and i can telnet to the VIP on 443
[01:35:36] <JarianGibson> do you have root crts on wi servers?
[01:35:51] <tabularasa> like the godaddy root crt ?
[01:35:55] <JarianGibson> yes
[01:36:00] <tabularasa> prob not
[01:36:47] <JarianGibson> if you hit the agee vip from wi server vi browser do you get any cert errors?
[01:37:25] <tabularasa> nope
[01:38:09] <tabularasa> see /msg
[01:40:06] <tabularasa> yeah, looks like the root cert is already installed
[01:40:13] <tabularasa> googling the 401 error doesn't tell me crap
[01:41:35] <JarianGibson> usally call back issues is dns, cert, or routing
[01:41:50] <tabularasa> no errors in the event log
[01:41:54] <tabularasa> looks like i'm calling Citrix... :-/
[01:49:12] <tabularasa> so, authentication needs to be at access gateway and secure access has to be direct...
[01:49:16] <tabularasa> its like i need to go back to phase 1...
[01:50:40] <JarianGibson> yes
[01:51:37] <JarianGibson> call back for wi shouldn point agee vip
[01:51:48] <JarianGibson> also try editing host file on wi to point to agee vip internally
[01:52:30] <tabularasa> internally?
[01:52:59] <tabularasa> i can telnet to tjcog.blah.blah 443 and it works fine
[01:56:51] <JarianGibson> non public vip ip
[01:58:40] <tabularasa> like, just some other random VIP ?
[01:58:58] <tabularasa> i'll try
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[02:03:07] <JarianGibson> nope usually with the callback i make a host file entry on wi to point to the wi vip
[02:03:21] <JarianGibson> your dns may it going to the outside nat address
[02:03:28] <JarianGibson> not wi vip, agee vip
[02:03:41] <tabularasa> no nat involved
[02:03:54] <JarianGibson> is your vip for agee a public ip?
[02:03:55] <tabularasa> that DNS address i sent you is the VIP
[02:03:57] <tabularasa> yes
[02:04:00] <JarianGibson> ok
[02:04:03] <JarianGibson> nevermind then
[02:04:10] <tabularasa> and i canlt telnet to the internal VIP i use on 443
[02:04:24] <tabularasa> yeah, the Virtual Server i'm using for this customer is the IP i'm using
[02:04:40] <JarianGibson> and can pull up logon page fine from wi?
[02:04:48] <tabularasa> yeah
[02:05:17] <tabularasa> hence why i'm so confused...
[02:05:48] <JarianGibson> hmm with is the auth url in wi?
[02:06:08] <tabularasa> yes
[02:06:18] <JarianGibson> https://fqdn/CitrixAuthService/AuthService.asmx?
[02:06:25] <tabularasa> exactly
[02:06:46] <JarianGibson> hmm
[02:07:12] <tabularasa> sending screenshots
[02:07:17] <JarianGibson> ok
[02:07:17] <tabularasa> hopefull i missed something stupid
[02:07:22] <tabularasa> did you get your /msg ?
[02:07:42] <JarianGibson> yes
[02:09:03] <JarianGibson> looks right
[02:10:07] <JarianGibson> single sign on domain name correct in session profile?
[02:10:41] <tabularasa> i'm not using sso domain name
[02:10:42] <JarianGibson> published applications tab
[02:10:44] <tabularasa> i'm using UPN auth
[02:11:12] <JarianGibson> post screent shot of published applicaitons tab in session profile
[02:12:01] <tabularasa> nothing really in there
[02:12:03] <tabularasa> ICA proxy off
[02:12:12] <tabularasa> WI address is the LB adress to /citrix/xenapp
[02:12:13] <tabularasa> thats it
[02:12:21] <JarianGibson> are you usng clientless access?
[02:12:24] <JarianGibson> or ica proxy
[02:12:26] <tabularasa> ssl vpn
[02:12:31] <tabularasa> no ica proxy
[02:13:16] <JarianGibson> post shots of profile
[02:13:32] <tabularasa> kk
[02:13:39] <tabularasa> wanna goto meeting?  :)
[02:13:48] <JarianGibson> ok
[02:13:55] <tabularasa> sweet.. one sec
[02:14:32] <tabularasa> https://www3.gotomeeting.com/join/537739910
[02:14:32] <tabularasa> 2.  Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended.  Or, call in using your telephone.
[02:14:35] <tabularasa> Dial +1 (215) 383-1000
[02:14:38] <tabularasa> Access Code: 537-739-910
[02:14:40] <tabularasa> Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting
[02:14:43] <tabularasa> Meeting ID: 537-739-910
[02:14:45] 
[02:14:48] <tabularasa> Online Meetings Made Easy.
[02:14:50] <tabularasa> crap
[02:14:53] <tabularasa> fail
[02:14:55] <tabularasa> lemme try that again
[02:15:02] <JarianGibson> ok
[02:15:04] <tabularasa> lol
[02:16:28] <tabularasa> that work?
[02:16:51] <JarianGibson> yes
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[02:24:34] <gblfxt> tabularasa, what did wireshark say?
[02:24:49] <tabularasa> nothing
[02:25:03] <tabularasa> just a bunch of http querys
[02:25:14] <tabularasa> aaad.debug also shows accept
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[02:25:44] <JarianGibson> aaad.debug won't show anything since it is getting passed the inital logon
[02:26:34] <tabularasa> i figured
[02:26:40] <tabularasa> hmmm... the plot thinckens...
[02:26:52] <tabularasa> i was just looking at my email and the "working" site is now broken
[02:26:59] <tabularasa> nothing has changed on it....
[02:27:07] <tabularasa> so, now, both my wI callbacks are broken
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[02:30:23] <JarianGibson> i am seeing much on upn
[02:30:41] <tabularasa> much good, or much bad ?
[02:30:58] <tabularasa> ah ha!
[02:30:59] <JarianGibson> not seeing sorry
[02:31:03] <JarianGibson> did it just work?
[02:31:07] <tabularasa> yeah.....
[02:31:14] <JarianGibson> was it the repeater traffic policy?
[02:31:26] <tabularasa> testing
[02:32:21] <tabularasa> perhaps
[02:32:35] <tabularasa> success!
[02:32:43] <tabularasa> wierd that would make it fail....
[02:32:47] <tabularasa> i'm going to have to test
[02:32:59] <tabularasa> i tried to join the 2 repeater policies... guess i have to make it 1 policy per customer....
[02:33:04] <tabularasa> thanks JarianGibson
[02:33:21] <tabularasa> dinner time... :)
[02:33:25] <JarianGibson> i didn't do much
[02:33:32] <JarianGibson> glad you found the issue
[02:33:40] <tabularasa> its good to have a second set of eyes on things
[02:33:50] <JarianGibson> true
[02:34:19] <tabularasa> guess i'll make a dedicated repeater policy per customer and try now
[02:34:24] <tabularasa> er, again
[02:34:28] <JarianGibson> good idea
[02:55:55] <tabularasa> yeah, that worked
[02:55:58] <tabularasa> good to know
[02:56:05] <JarianGibson> nice
[02:57:03] <tabularasa> ok, 13 hours of work is enough
[02:57:12] <tabularasa> have a good night/morning/afternoon everyone
[02:57:48] <JarianGibson> you too
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[04:29:37] <jono-> since receiver 4.2.3 has come out... has it caused anyone here grief?
[04:29:42] <jono-> (that and 11.3 for mac)
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[05:58:30] <gladier> 11.3 for mac is out?
[05:58:31] <gladier> cool
[05:59:40] <gladier> Guest4692: any idea whee abouts you can get it from?
[06:00:09] <gladier> oh ... damn
[06:00:11] <gladier> it's in the app store
[06:13:23] <gladier> and it's full of bugs :/ i have this wierd ssl error 4 thing
[06:18:45] <gblfxt> maybe the printer support on mac has improved!
[06:19:14] <gblfxt> gladier, print something!
[06:19:30] <gladier> i would if i could actually connect to any of my apps
[06:19:42] <gladier> seems to be trying to do proxy autoconfig
[06:20:17] <gladier> going to see if i can connect to the cloud
[06:28:50] <gladier> yea.. even citrix's demo cloud breaks
[06:29:17] <gladier> makson: whenever you get a chance did you want to give it a go
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[14:22:42] <waynerr> hey there i try to get a intel x520 nic working under xenserver, but iam not able to find the ddk iso image
[14:23:41] <waynerr> nvm
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[14:26:10] <tabularasa> morning peeps
[14:26:52] <gim6626> Hi! I got server with 3 NICs and XenServer 5.6 FP1. I want server to work like router: real host connected to one of this 3 NICs should be in one network with real hosts connected to other NICs. Could anybody advise, how could I do it? Thanks
[14:34:15] <waynerr> create two different virtual networks and map the adapter to them
[14:34:30] <waynerr> then create a vm that has two adapters and each of the networks
[14:34:46] <waynerr> you have to configure your vm as router then ( using a firewall linux distro for example )
[14:40:14] <gim6626> waynerr: Thanks. Don't know why I hadn't guessed how to do it)
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[15:49:53] <waynerr> btw why is there no kernel module for such a common network card as the intel x520  ?
[15:50:26] <waynerr> in general i see it like this when i load this module into my production xen system and i get a problem with it citrix customer service will blame my custom made kernel module ?
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[16:37:34] <kreign> waynerr, I can't recall which gigE card it is, but there's one that's fucking unstable.
[16:37:55] <kreign> waynerr, I knwo this because I've got a host that keeps crashing, just can't recall off the top which it is
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[16:42:15] <csharpion> nice
[16:42:28] <csharpion> do you need to expand the schema when installing xneapp6
[16:42:28] <csharpion> ?
[16:43:43] <waynerr> kreign, the funny thing is that i have no problems running it at the moment
[16:43:51] <waynerr> i just have to manually install the kernel drivers
[16:45:28] <kreign> waynerr, 'at the moment' meaning? how long has it been running?
[16:45:30] <waynerr> and now loose give the support a easy way to circumvent doing anything on my system
[16:45:43] <waynerr> i just test it out today, iam not into production yet
[16:45:44] <kreign> waynerr, afaict, it's "bad hardware".
[16:45:54] <waynerr> intel x520 is not bad hardware
[16:45:56] <kreign> yeah, that's not nearly long enough.
[16:46:00] <kreign> waynerr, let's put it this way
[16:46:04] <kreign> i've got a machine w/ one of those NICs
[16:46:07] <waynerr> its the standard for 10gbit network cards
[16:46:15] <kreign> it crashes
[16:46:21] <kreign> ok.
[16:46:43] <kreign> it may be a supermicro thing.
[16:47:12] <csharpion> do you need to expand the schema when installing xneapp6
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[16:49:28] <kreign> csharpion, a guess: probably
[16:49:40] <csharpion> why ?
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[16:52:06] <csharpion> is this a citrix support channel ?
[16:52:10] <tabularasa> yes
[16:52:26] <csharpion> citrix  as in citrix the virtualization server
[16:52:31] <tabularasa> xenserver?
[16:52:40] <tabularasa> yes, this channel supports xenapp/xendesktop/xenserver, etc
[16:52:43] <csharpion> oh
[16:52:45] <csharpion> sweet
[16:52:46] <csharpion> thanks
[16:53:29] <tabularasa> yup
[16:53:53] <kreign> csharpion, it's the officially unofficial citrix channel
[16:54:17] <kreign> I don't think there's anyone in here in an official capacity.
[16:54:23] <kreign> just us pretenders.
[16:54:28] <csharpion> is there a way to download xenapp 6 for evaluation purposes ?
[16:55:06] <tabularasa> i thought you could...  its been a while
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[17:07:22] <extor> Will the free version of xenserver allow me to freeze the state of a virtual machine similar to how vmware does it? Freeze ram contents into the snapshot for future analysis?
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[17:11:30] <waynerr> extor, the free version of xencenter has a snapshot manager and ability to take snapshots, but if it similiar to the vmware stuff i cant say ( i never used xen snapshots yet )
[17:12:47] <waynerr> ohh and snapshoting memory is a enterprise function
[17:12:53] <extor> vmware can snapshot the total state of the machine including everything in RAM..basically a perfect checkpoint in time that you can revert back to for forensic analysis or any other purpose
[17:13:09] <extor> Oh so it does exist...but not for the general public
[17:13:31] <waynerr> yeah disk and memory snapshot is only for licensed stuff, disk snapshot works in the free version
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[17:14:08] <waynerr> it has a function that vmware doesnt have ( atleast 3.5 thats what i used last ), making a new vm out of snapshot
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[17:15:24] <extor> vmware can make new vms out of snapshots and has been able to do that for ages
[17:15:31] <extor> It's called a clone
[17:15:55] <extor> Well actually Im not sure vmware can make clones out of powered on snapshots. But it sure can from powered down snapshots
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[17:47:40] <tabulara1a> any MAC users?  Does Dazzle support AGEE ?
[17:47:46] <tabulara1a> if not, how can MAC launch through AGEE ?
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[17:48:16] <csharpion> tabularasa arent you a cisco op ?
[17:48:20] <tabularasa> yes
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[17:51:39] <tabularasa> csharpion: why?
[17:51:44] <tabularasa> why do you ask?
[17:52:43] <csharpion> i dont know
[17:52:47] <csharpion> your nick looks familiar
[17:53:53] <tabularasa> i used to be in #Cisco alot
[17:54:48] <tabularasa> Probably will be more, i'm gonna try to hit up the lab again
[17:55:15] <csharpion> ccie ?
[17:55:19] <tabularasa> yeah
[17:55:37] <csharpion> impressive
[17:55:38] <csharpion> goodluck
[17:55:48] <tabularasa> thanks.  yeah, its tough
[17:55:53] <tabularasa> i barely missed it the first time
[17:56:01] <tabularasa> i got 100% on 5 of 8 sections
[17:56:13] <csharpion> normally things worth doing aren't easy
[17:56:41] <tabularasa> agreed
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[18:07:02] <jduggan> is xenserver fp1 certified on HP dl385 G7 ?
[18:08:10] <jduggan> ooh
[18:08:12] <jduggan> just found the hcl
[18:08:15] <jduggan> looks like it
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[18:25:24] <JarianGibson> i hope citrix isn't changing product names again
[18:25:34] <JarianGibson> after the tweets i am seeing this morning
[18:25:41] <tabularasa> no doubt
[18:25:43] <tabularasa> how you doing JarianGibson
[18:26:03] <kdavy_> what's changing?
[18:26:51] <JarianGibson> i saw a tweet from harry labana about new name for xendesktop arch if it gets past the marketing police
[18:26:55] <JarianGibson> hey tabularasa
[18:27:02] <JarianGibson> doing good today, how are you doing?
[18:27:14] <kdavy_> lol. will it come with a new console?
[18:27:22] <JarianGibson> probably
[18:27:32] <tabularasa> not bad..  shits still broken.. just somewhere else
[18:27:36] <tabularasa> my cloning = fail
[18:27:41] <tabularasa> kdavy_: heh, lol
[18:27:43] <kdavy_> shit's broken here
[18:28:10] <kdavy_> one of my nexentas shit the bed this morning, went into a kernel panic
[18:28:48] <tabularasa> that sucks
[18:28:55] <kdavy_> on thing citrix needs for both xendesktop and xenapp is reverse seamless apps
[18:32:52] <kreign> kdavy, :|
[18:33:09] <kreign> kdavy, how did nexenta shit itself? ZFS panic or the ON kernel?
[18:33:43] <kdavy_> kreignf, smbd process got stuck, caused an ^Mpanic, then a page fault due to a NULL pointer dereference, then a bad kernel fault, then the nexenta rebooted
[18:34:29] <kreign> kdavy, ^Mpanic?
[18:34:41] <kreign> jesus
[18:34:47] <kdavy_> even though i don't use smb on it at all - the service is enabled by default. i killed it when i saw it was taking up one core, and then it accidentally the whole thing
[18:34:47] <kreign> that sounds really bad.
[18:35:25] <kdavy_> indeed
[18:36:28] * kdavy_ needs to keep his fucking hands to himself and not touch things during the day that are somewhat but NOT COMPLETELY broken
[18:36:28] <kreign> kdavy, I have started to lose faith in ZFS in the last couple weeks, tbh
[18:36:40] <kreign> kdavy, I've seen entirely too much 'crash and reboot' bullshit.
[18:36:45] <kdavy_> kreign, this has nothing to do with zfs though
[18:36:52] <kdavy_> zfs itself was fine
[18:36:54] <kreign> kdavy, true enough.
[18:37:40] <kreign> kdavy, it's a reasonable assumption that stopping a non-kernel service wouldn't cause the kernel to panic, particularly on an architecture like Solaris (with containers/zones).
[18:40:32] <kdavy_> kreign, yes, although assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups
[18:41:29] <kreign> kdavy, 99% of what we do on a daily basis is assumption.
[18:41:46] <kreign> kdavy, either assumption or something we've done a million times before.
[18:42:12] <kdavy_> true
[18:42:15] <kreign> kdavy, the only 'assumption' is that repeated behaviors, without any (known) outside change, should result in the same actions.
[18:42:38] <kreign> kdavy, if you start to assume that any and all change is going to break something, you might as well start working nights.
[18:42:41] <kdavy_> yes
[18:42:50] <kreign> or 40 hour weekends. :)
[18:43:06] <waynerr__> isnt that normal ? :p
[18:43:21] <kdavy_> pretty much
[18:43:29] <kreign> waynerr__, ... yeah, more or less.
[18:43:38] <waynerr__> its just illegal still in most countrys to work 90hours per week or some people would allready have contracts like that
[18:43:44] <kreign> normality does not mean it's good or preferable. ;)
[18:44:03] <kreign> only so much useful work you can do in 40 hours.
[18:44:10] <kreign> after that error rate climbs fast.
[18:44:31] <waynerr__> yeah especially without sleeping/eating/chill phase error rate gets up
[18:46:02] <kreign> im'm getting really tired of MS changing their spam/bigfish domains/etc.
[18:47:51] <waynerr__> iam happy i dont work with ms crap
[18:48:14] <waynerr__> we have two admins for windows-servers and me for linux-machines, you can guess who has more servers to manage ....
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[18:48:41] <waynerr__> and mostly of course the virtualisation platforms are handled by the linux-guy, too
[18:48:48] <waynerr__> and hardware ...
[18:49:14] <kreign> waynerr__, lucky... I end up having to do all the DR/forensics/whatever for their windows shit (perf related mostly) becase they don't know what they're doing.
[18:49:25] <kreign> just wish my boss wasn't the windows guy.
[18:49:35] <kreign> "this isn't working, your linux broke something *snap*"
[18:49:40] <kreign> yeah, chief. that's it.
[18:50:32] <waynerr__> haha
[18:50:56] <waynerr__> since we use citrix as virtualisation i never heard anything like the "virtualisation is faulty for the result"
[18:51:16] <kreign> :|
[18:51:17] <kreign> ok.
[18:51:30] <kreign> i guess my predecessor may have just been a bad engineer
[18:51:35] <kreign> (well, no guessing involved, really)
[18:51:37] <waynerr__> i made benchmarks in the first weeks when i evaluated citrix and shown the windows guys vms that where faster then windows installed on the same hardware
[18:51:59] <kreign> waynerr__, really. I'd love to see those benchmarks.
[18:52:13] <kdavy_> waynerr: did your benchmarks test the storage among other things? :)
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[18:52:17] <kreign> It'd shut up my boss, who's trying to placate a client who thinks VT is at fault.
[18:52:34] <kreign> (heh yeah, storage is somewhat an issue)
[18:52:41] <waynerr__> i will dig into my old stuff i probably have it still :D
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[18:52:45] <kdavy_> so is the network to be honest
[18:52:52] <waynerr__> i never delete anything mostly ..
[18:52:55] <kreign> kdavy, hmm really? how so?
[18:53:04] <kreign> waynerr__, need an email address?
[18:53:22] <waynerr__> i tested storage, and alot of syntetic stuff ( cpu, ram speeds, even graphic speed haha )
[18:53:37] <waynerr__> yeah i will add it to my todo so i wont forget :)
[18:53:42] <kdavy_> waynerr__: did you try Crysis on it?
[18:53:53] <waynerr__> no i didnt tryed computer games
[18:54:25] <waynerr__> i gonna do this in a private project someday tough, i have the great wish to use a big virtualisation server in my basement and just connect to it over 1gbit network
[18:54:36] <waynerr__> anywhere in the house
[18:56:16] <kreign> waynerr__, if graphic speed was faster on citrix I highly doubt your methodology and/or results.
[18:56:34] <kreign> waynerr__, I'm doing something similar...
[18:56:49] <waynerr__> i think graphic was not really faster, cpu and ram where pretty close to each other
[18:57:11] <kreign> well the traditional way of doing something like this... which is NFS mounted /home and a centrally deployed / and kernel via pxe
[18:57:32] <kreign> waynerr__, there are so many metrics to test its easy to miss one.
[18:57:42] <waynerr__> yeah it was just something fast i wanted to know
[18:58:12] <waynerr__> it probably took me only 10h todo all tests, so i tryed out the stuff really fast
[18:58:51] <waynerr__> but when i entered the company some servers used vmware server deployed on windows xp which was 80% slower .....
[18:59:35] <kreign> omg stupid.
[18:59:37] <kreign> yeah.
[18:59:45] <kreign> waynerr__, and you went to XS over vmware, why?
[19:00:00] <waynerr__> because of the future costs when i want to go ha
[19:00:15] <waynerr__> which i have now todo in the next 3months
[19:00:32] <kreign> which are?
[19:00:35] <waynerr__> even the vmware concept with a controller server added another spof and another layer of complexity
[19:01:04] <waynerr__> with xs you have to pay per node, on vmware you per sockel of your system
[19:01:06] <kdavy_> xenserver is an spof in itself
[19:01:14] <kreign> spof?
[19:01:20] <kreign> wtf is that
[19:01:24] <kdavy_> single point of failure
[19:01:40] <kreign> oh
[19:02:10] <kreign> yeah I don't think the vmware model actually introduces a spof
[19:02:17] <waynerr__> i have two servers running now for +1 year with xenserver, they can compaire in terms of stability to my esx machines
[19:02:28] <kreign> waynerr__, are they in a cluster?
[19:02:42] <kreign> waynerr__, in truth the two are using basicalyl the same exact technology.
[19:02:45] <waynerr__> not yet, i will start a system like this in the next weeks for testing
[19:02:57] <kreign> it's just that vmware's products don't feel like a beta offering at v. 5+
[19:03:24] <waynerr__> i dont feel like that with xen and i had to modify esx machines in the past, too
[19:03:41] <waynerr__> to bring up raid-controller software for example
[19:04:04] <waynerr__> was alot easier todo stuff like that under xen, cause they not stripped it to the bone
[19:04:35] <waynerr__> ofc the community is abit smaller and sometimes you should be able to help yourself, knowing something about centos/redhat isnt wrong at all
[19:05:08] <waynerr__> for example i not got any answers on my 10gbit questions, so i just try it out myself
[19:05:18] <waynerr__> and see if it works
[19:13:51] <JarianGibson> i really wish xenclient would suport nvidia, ati, etc
[19:21:05] <tabularasa> i really wish XenClient didn't suck so bad
[19:25:52] <JarianGibson> ha
[19:25:58] <tabularasa> :)
[19:28:38] <JarianGibson> yes
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[19:30:26] <f3xy> anyone know where I can kind old xen kernel sources?
[19:30:42] <f3xy> Might they be on the xen server install CD?
[19:30:48] <f3xy> specifically 53.1.13.el5.xs4.1.0.254.273
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[19:48:12] <tabularasa> holy netsplit
[19:49:24] <kdavy_> where?
[19:49:59] <kdavy_> must've been a small netsplit - i only saw two people kicked off
[19:51:25] <kdavy_> JarianGibson (or anyone for that matter) - do provisioning server VMs survive live migration on XenServer, or is the network interruption enough to kill them?
[19:51:54] <JarianGibson> depends but for the most part yes
[19:52:06] <JarianGibson> it may freeze or hang for a few seconds though
[19:52:20] <kdavy_> ah, well that's no prob
[19:52:40] <tabularasa> kdavy_: just happened in multiple channels at the same time with different servers
[19:53:09] <tabularasa> depends on where the write-cache is too
[19:53:15] <JarianGibson> i am at customer now and we were moving around provisioned xenapp boxes and doing maintenance on the xenserver hosts, the user didn't even notice
[19:53:25] <JarianGibson> good point tabularasa
[19:53:35] <JarianGibson> we are using wc on local td hd
[19:53:43] <kdavy_> well, obviously its not gonna work if wc is on a local hd
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[19:53:58] <JarianGibson> local to vm but on shared storage
[19:54:13] <kdavy_> ah, well that's where i'd put it anyway
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[19:54:25] <tabularasa> just trying to point that out.. geesh.. :p
[19:54:48] <kdavy_> how big do you make the write cache for a xenapp box?
[19:55:06] <tabularasa> i made 4GB chunks and rebooted once a week
[19:55:11] <kdavy_> (i'm finally coming back to implementing PVS - something i set out to do after Briforums
[19:55:15] <tabularasa> never really seemed to be close, though
[19:55:21] <JarianGibson> mine are 10 -15gb chunks
[19:55:31] <JarianGibson> but i am also putting page file
[19:55:33] <tabularasa> wow, thats alot
[19:55:35] <JarianGibson> edgeisght data
[19:55:35] <kdavy_> tabularasa, what happens if the chunk runs out of space?
[19:55:37] <JarianGibson> event logs
[19:55:41] <tabularasa> kdavy_: boom
[19:55:46] <JarianGibson> app streaming cache
[19:55:52] <tabularasa> yeah, thats alot
[19:55:57] <kdavy_> great, so i'll need 20 gigs per box then
[19:55:58] <tabularasa> i used SSDs and just put the PF on there
[19:56:30] <JarianGibson> the wc on td disk will overwrite itself
[19:56:49] <JarianGibson> now if you cache in memory that is where it will boom on your for sure
[19:57:06] <kdavy_> Jarian, it will only overwrite itself on reboot though, what about in mid-flight?
[19:57:32] <JarianGibson> it will while running i believe.  makson you saw this at one of your customers right?
[19:57:36] <kdavy_> hypothetically, what happens if a user with a 20 gig roaming profile logs into a server that only has 15 gigs of write cache?
[19:57:49] <tabularasa> lmao
[19:57:50] <JarianGibson> well that could be a problem
[19:57:53] <kdavy_> :)
[19:58:15] <JarianGibson> i have never reached the limit
[19:58:33] <kdavy_> there's always a first to everything
[19:58:51] <JarianGibson> but makson had an instance where he saw writes that were way bigger than the write cahce itselft and the box wasn't rebooted for weeks
[19:59:21] <kdavy_> that wouldn't be a problem if they're rewrites - but new writes are different
[19:59:40] <kdavy_> the data has to go somewhere, no?
[20:00:07] <JarianGibson> true but The Cache file size grows as needed, but never gets larger than the original vDisk, and frequently not larger than the free space on the original vDisk.
[20:00:24] <kdavy_> yep that's what i thought
[20:00:55] <JarianGibson> that is pvs guide
[20:02:15] <kdavy_> so, are there any plans to fix the daylight savings boom with PVS yet?
[20:02:49] <JarianGibson> good q
[20:03:28] <kdavy_> that's one of the reasons i didnt implement it at first - sounds fickle
[20:04:17] <tabularasa> its sweet though
[20:04:24] <tabularasa> i noticed those servers were damn fast too
[20:04:38] <tabularasa> my only beef was the whole vDisk updating process
[20:05:23] <JarianGibson> yep
[20:05:55] <kdavy_> yeah, well that's still easier than redoing tens of servers every time a change needs to be made
[20:06:10] <tabularasa> it is
[20:06:35] <tabularasa> i'm going into a potential customer that has 700 desktops on Monday
[20:06:39] <tabularasa> PVS is certainly going to come up
[20:06:44] <JarianGibson> day light savings http://www.neton.ag/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/fixing-the-daylight-saving-time-issue-in-citrix-provisioning-server-environments-v1-1.pdf
[20:06:44] <kdavy_> nice
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[20:08:16] <JarianGibson> did you see forums posting from citrix about xd setup wizard hotfix will also work with xenapp wen it comes out
[20:08:34] <kdavy_> no, didnt see that
[20:08:49] <kdavy_> what does the hotfix fix?
[20:09:18] <JarianGibson> setup wizard is being intregrated with pvs. right now there isn'tone for xd5
[20:09:22] <JarianGibson> for pvs
[20:09:29] <kdavy_> ah, that's hot
[20:10:15] <tabularasa> nice
[20:10:28] <tabularasa> i can see my doing a crapload of XA PVS boxes...
[20:10:39] <tabularasa> perhaps even PVS to physical boxes (thin clients)
[20:10:55] <kdavy_> I bet Elias_Rus is happy right now - no more daylight savings time headache with PVS for him :)
[20:10:58] <tabularasa> PVS XP to a thin client then deliver published apps to them
[20:11:07] <tabularasa> save them $$$$ on workstations
[20:11:33] <kdavy_> tabularasa, sounds like a waste of WinXP licenses
[20:11:46] <tabularasa> suggesstions?
[20:12:10] <JarianGibson> see http://forums.citrix.com/thread.jspa?threadID=278412&start=30&tstart=0
[20:12:27] <JarianGibson> post by patrick carey
[20:12:39] <kdavy_> maybe PVS Wyse WSM to them - it is only $40/seat
[20:12:53] <tabularasa> bah, i can't even buy XP anymore anyway
[20:12:57] <JarianGibson> When we do release the wizard, it will ship as a patch/hotfix to the Provisioning Service 5.6 SP 1 management console. You will need to already have that version installed. Running as an extension to the Provisioning Services console means that it can run adjacent to the XenDesktop MMC snap-ins and remotely from the Provisioning Services hosts (an improvement over the old one). You'll invoke the wizard from the console by right-clicking on the Pr
[20:13:03] <tabularasa> WSM ?
[20:13:15] <kdavy_> er, well, you don't even need PVS with Wyse WSM - the thing PXE-boots anyway
[20:13:34] <Elias_Rus> kdavy, i didn't have any issues
[20:14:05] <kdavy_> Elias_Rus, no, i meant Medvedev getting rid of daylight savings time in Russia altogether
[20:15:07] <tabularasa> If only they had 700 identical computers.. lol
[20:15:24] <kdavy_> and by Wyse WSM i meant Wyse PC Extender
[20:15:35] <tabularasa> like their 0-client?
[20:15:46] <kdavy_> http://wyse.com/products/software/pcextender/index.asp
[20:15:59] <kdavy_> converts a legacy machine into a wyse client in software
[20:16:29] <tabularasa> decent
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[20:16:43] <JarianGibson> extender is nice
[20:16:50] <tabularasa> it seemed to me by the time you got Wyse, something else was cheaper anyway.. is this the same?
[20:17:34] <tabularasa> looks sweet though
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[20:20:40] <kdavy_> yeah, i forgot if it was $30 or $40 per seat. 40 is MSRP i think, but at a volume i'm sure you could get it down
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[20:22:23] <JarianGibson> look at http://www.jolicloud.com/
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[20:23:17] <JarianGibson> i am going to tsest jolicloud with citrix receiver for linux
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[20:24:43] <kdavy_> is citrix receiver for linux ever gonna reach v12?
[20:25:58] <Guest64099> citric seems all fucked up receiver and versioning.... they dont even have the ios ones in sync....
[20:26:16] <kdavy_> oh, speaking of which, next week i'm visiting a potential client that still runs windows 98 on most of their machines
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[21:17:41] <kreign> opendns reports the server as it reports itself.
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[21:18:33] <kreign> OH
[21:18:35] <kreign> I fucking know
[21:19:29] <kreign> oh wow, seriously...
[21:20:26] <kreign> i ownder if opendns isn't poisoning DNS.
[21:21:46] <kdavy_> nice! i think it actually does, i remember people being pissed about it
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[21:24:19] <kreign> kdavy, right.
[21:24:34] <kreign> kdavy, but I'm not sure it completely explains how this would actually work, unless opendns hosts DNS as well for people.
[21:24:55] <kdavy_> they do, go to opendns.com
[21:25:11] <kdavy_> people use opendns for content filtering and such
[21:25:58] <kreign> kdavy, no, I mean as a registrar
[21:25:59] <kdavy_> and opendns makes extra bucks by resolving unreachable domains into parked ad pages
[21:26:06] <kreign> oh.
[21:26:08] <kreign> snap.
[21:26:11] <kreign> now I understand.
[21:26:11] <kreign> urg
[21:26:14] <kdavy_> :)
[21:26:16] <kreign> this has bit me twice now, that I recall.
[21:29:17] <kdavy_> yeah, annoying
[21:38:01] <kdavy_> oh shit, apparently you can use RemoteFX on a R2 SP1 terminal server with no GPU
[21:38:17] <kdavy_> so it will work in a Xen/vSphere VM
[21:38:27] <kreign> what's remotefx/
[21:38:39] <kdavy_> Microsoft's answer to PCoIP
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[21:38:54] <kreign> ...
[21:39:01] <kreign> so RDP is really bloated now?
[21:39:17] <kdavy_> no, it's not RDP, it's another protocol, you can use both side by side
[21:39:25] <kreign> I wasn't aware that PCoIP actually posed a question needing answering.
[21:39:38] <kreign> but then I've not really been on top of it.
[21:39:50] <kreign> kdavy, going to have to read up on that one, though.
[21:40:02] <kdavy_> RDP does rendering using sprites and GDI objects; RemoteFX does full screen encoding just like PCoIP, which is apparently better for multimedia experience across LAN
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[21:43:55] <kreign> kdavy, i seem to recall there have been other 'encapsulate on top of RDP' technologies out there which actually stream beside RDP and composite  the result.
[21:44:12] <kreign> IMO that'd be better, for non-windowed elements.
[21:44:13] <kdavy_> kreign, yeah, like ICA or Quest
[21:44:35] <kreign> so uh what does RemoteFX actually do for me?
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[21:44:43] <kdavy_> but RemoteFX is different still - it is essentially sending a movie of the entire screen down the wire
[21:44:51] <kreign> I've not been too impressed with most of the bitmapped remote display stuff.
[21:44:56] <kreign> right.
[21:45:13] <kreign> so it's basically like VNC.
[21:45:36] <kdavy_> well, let me test it - i just built a new management box with R2 SP1, waiting for Win7 SP1 to install on my desktop so i can try and compare it to RDP over WAN
[21:45:46] <kdavy_> like VNC but more efficient apparently
[21:45:53] <kreign> kdavy, can't you use GPUs in VMWare yet?
[21:45:56] <KaiForce> Citrix Xenapp 6 admin class 3195. bah.  and no Administration PDF file.  Ugh.  Is there a list of the Xenapp 6 bugs anywhere?
[21:46:24] <kreign> kdavy, eh done right VNC can get pretty close to RDP in many regards. there are some pretty good (mostly open source) compression algos for it.
[21:46:34] <kdavy_> KaiForce, yeah, here's the list: http://forums.citrix.com/category.jspa?categoryID=202
[21:46:53] <kreign> kdavy, are you sure? This is a Citrix product we're talking about. I doubt there's even a complete feature list.
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[21:50:31] <kdavy[1]> erm. kreignf, what were you saying? i started reading and my computer rebooted
[21:50:42] <kreign> kdavy, eh done right VNC can get pretty close to RDP in many regards. there are some pretty good (mostly open source) compression algos for it.
[21:50:48] <kreign> kdavy, are you sure? This is a Citrix product we're talking about. I doubt there's even a complete feature list.
[21:51:10] <kdavy[1]> oh, re: bug list - you did follow the actual link right?
[21:51:17] <kdavy[1]> that was my attempt at making a joke
[21:51:23] <kreign> oh
[21:51:25] <kreign> no I did not
[21:51:27] <kreign> I didn't believe you
[21:52:02] <kreign> but now that I have, you are correct and funny at the same time.
[21:52:12] <kdavy[1]> :)
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[22:01:24] <KaiForce> kdavy:  nobody has attempted to document the bugs anywhere?  I've just gotten bits and pieces from people saying it is buggy.
[22:01:44] <KaiForce> i've got it installed in test but no users on it yet
[22:01:46] <kdavy_> KaiForce, no, everyone is too busy complaining
[22:02:13] <KaiForce> is it too early to take to production?  that bad?
[22:02:40] <kdavy_> KaiForce, people are using it in production, but I'd wait until the first service pack
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[22:03:51] <kdavy_> i have several test servers with it as well, but i have no idea how it will behave under load
[22:04:04] <KaiForce> kdavy_ :  cool thanks for the input.
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[22:11:35] <kdavy_> no prob
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[22:18:48] <kdavy_> kreign, what do you use for centralized syslog management?
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[22:36:46] <kreign> orahhh food
[22:36:50] <kreign> my outlook is much improved.
[22:36:58] <kreign> kdavy, my brain
[22:37:01] <kreign> i read it every day
[22:37:05] <kreign> :P
[22:37:08] <kdavy[1]> kreign, gee lol
[22:38:21] <kreign> kdavy, like I don't have enough to keep up there. :P syslog-ng plus phplogcon (now called adiscon loganalyzer)
[22:39:11] <kreign> it's a bit too noisy/not what I'm after.
[22:40:00] <kreign> kdavy, thinking I may start using it in addition to logcheck for a different syslog facility
[22:40:20] <kreign> I've got too many piddly things to do before i can get to that though.
[22:40:30] <kreign> kdavy, how big is your team?
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[22:41:36] <kdavy[1]> kreign, we have 6 people including myself that work on the server or network side and need access to logs
[22:41:48] <kdavy[1]> others don't know what logs are
[22:42:04] <kdavy[1]> right now we just use Kiwi, but it's far from ideal
[22:42:57] <kreign> hmm wonder if the first gen sandforce SSDs are going to drop in price soon...
[22:44:03] <kreign> kdavy, have you used their switch port mapper?
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[22:44:21] <kdavy_> nope, i havent
[22:44:35] <kdavy_> i think 1st gen sandforce are already dropping in price
[22:44:43] <kreign> kdavy, I mean more than they are :P
[22:45:01] <kdavy_> the OCZ Vertex 3 Pro looks fucking sweet though
[22:45:01] <kreign> of course that's really just a symptom-solution not a fix to the root problem...
[22:45:10] <kreign> (wrt SSD prices)
[22:45:27] <kreign> kdavy, what's wrong with kiwi?
[22:45:54] <kdavy_> kreign: the free version is pretty useless, that's what's wrong with Kiwi :)
[22:47:37] <kreign> ah :)
[22:47:48] <kreign> was going to say it looks pretty featureful otherwise.
[22:47:49] <f3xy> anyone know what I'm doing wrong here?
[22:47:51] <f3xy> xe vm-export uuid=3bae740f-0d9c-3925-1e9c-136a692eff1f filename= | ssh xen2 "xe vm-import filename=/dev/stdin"
[22:48:19] <kreign> f3xy, I seem to recall that not being possible.
[22:48:46] <f3xy> what specifically?
[22:48:52] <kreign> f3xy, your vm-export filename=
[22:49:02] <f3xy> that's possible it exports to stdout
[22:49:11] <kreign> xe sucks in that it does not follow proper unix-isms.
[22:49:12] <f3xy> http://forums.citrix.com/thread.jspa?threadID=275872&tstart=0
[22:49:24] <kreign> f3xy, oh, huh. could've sworn it didn't work for me.
[22:50:28] <kreign> interesting. wonder if you could use xargs instead of stdin, probably not...
[22:50:35] <kreign> f3xy, what's happening?
[22:50:54] <f3xy> It returns almost immediately saying "Operation Failed"
[22:51:06] <f3xy> it returns after I type in the ssh password
[22:52:11] <kreign> f3xy, hmm. try it with xargs?
[22:52:42] <f3xy> I don't think that will work
[22:52:46] <kreign> eg | ssh xen2 "xargs xe vm-import filename="
[22:52:48] <f3xy> xargs groups input on stdin
[22:52:48] <kreign> probably not.
[22:53:11] <f3xy> hmm it might still work I'll give it a go
[22:53:12] <kreign> f3xy, this is the root user I take it?
[22:53:16] <f3xy> yup
[22:53:21] <kreign> try it without the quotes, too.
[22:53:26] <kreign> I don't remember when/if that makes a difference.
[22:53:35] <f3xy> the quotes to ssh?
[22:53:36] <kreign> report back if you get it working :P
[22:53:38] <kreign> yeah
[22:53:43] <kreign> IIRC they're extraneous
[22:53:51] <f3xy> hmmmm
[22:53:51] <kreign> unless you need to escape
[22:54:10] <f3xy> definitely nessecary
[22:54:34] <kreign> f3xy, why's that
[22:55:07] <kreign> you try this yet? xe vm-export uuid=<vm_uuid> filename= | xe vm-import filename=/dev/stdin
[22:55:52] <f3xy> I did
[22:57:44] <f3xy> same issues
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[23:01:40] <kreign> it's kinda funny, citrix obviously tried to copy/mimic Sun command lines while not "being too much like xm"... and failed in both regards just enough to make xe suck.
[23:01:57] <kreign> f3xy, hmm ok.
[23:02:01] <kreign> f3xy, can you export at all?
[23:03:07] <andreast> hello has anyone try XenDesktop with iPad?
[23:03:16] <tabularasa> yeah, its awesome
[23:04:08] <f3xy> I can export and import without issue
[23:04:59] <f3xy> at least I think I can
[23:05:08] <f3xy> I guess I'll try the old way haven't done it in a while
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[23:07:20] <kreign> why do i end up getting to design shit for marketing, too...
[23:07:37] <kreign> f3xy, throughput might be better over NFS, too... IDK
[23:07:56] <kdavy_> hm i'm playing flash games over RemoteFX over a Cable connection with 60ms latency
[23:09:18] <kdavy_> it's slow but playable, unlike with rdp
[23:10:37] <kdavy_> but latency-wise it's much less responsive than rdp/ica
[23:11:33] <kdavy_> maybe because the server cpu isn't that fast - dual Pentium4-EM64T based Xeon 3.2Ghz
[23:12:49] <kdavy_> and no GPU offload here
[23:16:51] <kreign> kdavy, latency wins, IMO
[23:17:11] <kreign> or lack of gpu offload
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[23:21:37] <kdavy_> kreign, yeah. over LAN i'm sure the performance would be great
[23:21:50] <kdavy_> but on WAN i'll take RDP/ICA anytime
[23:22:31] <kdavy_> one thing i have yet to try though acrross RemoteFX is VNC: VNC over RDP is just abysmally slow - for things like BladeCenter management or XenServer management consoles
[23:22:33] <kdavy_> and IPMI
[23:22:49] <kdavy_> in that case I have a feeling it might actually be more usable
[23:24:51] <kreign> kdavy, I hate VNC.
[23:25:06] <kreign> VNC should DIAF
[23:25:11] <kreign> honestly.
[23:25:33] <kdavy_> i honestly think that anything that has a V in it must die
[23:25:44] <kdavy_> VNC, LVM, etc
[23:25:45] <kreign> but then my window manager of choice does not require but the occasional mouse pointer input, and 90% of my work is either in a console, mail client, or web browser...
[23:26:05] <kreign> kdavy, what do you have against V?
[23:26:19] <kdavy_> it's used in many inferior technologies
[23:26:23] <kreign> LOL
[23:26:30] <kreign> VirtualBox?
[23:26:35] <kreign> Vsphere?
[23:26:41] <kdavy_> xenserVer
[23:26:41] <kreign> vulva?
[23:26:45] <kreign> LOL
[23:26:52] <kdavy_> ok, maybe not everything
[23:26:55] <kreign> ROFL
[23:27:09] <kreign> dude
[23:27:12] <kdavy_> but Volvo - definitely
[23:27:13] <kreign> falling out of chair here.
[23:27:15] <kreign> heh
[23:27:16] <kdavy_> it's got two V's
[23:27:17] <kreign> don't like volvos?
[23:27:21] <kreign> my wife loves volvos
[23:27:25] <kdavy_> haha, no i dont
[23:27:30] <kdavy_> i like Audis
[23:27:54] <kdavy_> my next car will be an A5 or S5, right now i have a TT
[23:28:59] <kdavy_> although my wife wants me to get a miniVan when we have kids
[23:29:39] <kreign> looking at a VW Passat right now.
[23:29:49] <kreign> kdavy, you need to get a man van
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[23:29:58] <kdavy_> the new passat or an older one?
[23:30:09] <kreign> http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4504/3461/23759230001_large.jpg
[23:30:13] <kreign> kdavy, 2003
[23:30:23] <kreign> aware of any issues w/ them? I'm mostly familiar w/ older US vehicles
[23:30:47] <kreign> this is somewhat distressing: http://www.carcomplaints.com/Volkswagen/Passat/2003/
[23:30:54] <kdavy_> yeah, i'd be fine with a man van. http://www.curtrich.com/0206.r63AMG.jpg
[23:31:02] <andreast__> hello again ..any1 know the min hardware requirements for Xend Desk? can i have a decent test lab with only one server?
[23:31:31] <kdavy_> andreas, sure. you can have a decent production environment with one server if you want
[23:32:22] <andreast__> thanks kdavy ..do i have to make it a domain controler and then install XenDesktop? i think that is not suported??
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[23:32:38] <kreign> kdavy, any familiar with the vw passat?
[23:32:54] <cathederal> anyone have an idea why I wouldn't be able to get an IP address on a VM?  I have the network shared that it's supposed to be on...
[23:33:05] <kdavy_> kreign, yeah. i blew the engine on a Passat in New Hampshire once
[23:33:06] <cathederal> the physical server can ping the switch and the gateway, but the VM cannot
[23:33:34] <kreign> kdavy, i4 turbo?
[23:33:39] <kreign> kdavy, what caused the failure?
[23:33:42] <kdavy_> cathederal, is the VM on the correct virtual network?
[23:33:53] <kdavy_> kreign, yeah the 1.8t.
[23:34:05] <kreign> kdavy, hmm
[23:34:10] <kreign> kdavy, a dicey proposition.
[23:34:34] <cathederal> yes, the one I need it to be on..
[23:34:42] <kreign> kdavy, anywayt, I like my full size van. :P
[23:34:51] <cathederal> Bond6+7 goes to the 160 network...I have that added to the VM
[23:34:58] <kdavy_> oil pump died, oil pressure dropped, and the damn dashboard wasn't informative enough - i didn't know that the oil check light indicated low pressure, and thought it was just low on oil - so i added a quart and kept driving
[23:35:22] <kreign> though if I could find a g20 shorty with 4wd and a diesel, I'd ape that up too
[23:35:34] <kreign> kdavy, ouch. absolutely the wrong thing for the problem.
[23:35:50] <kreign> oh
[23:35:53] <kreign> well, yeah, it didn't fix it
[23:35:58] <kdavy_> yep
[23:35:59] <kreign> read "low" as "high"
[23:36:09] <kreign> dials FTW
[23:36:33] <cathederal> any ideas?
[23:36:33] <kdavy_> the mechanic said that somehow the turbo also disintegrated and pieces of it went into the engine, which was the end of it
[23:36:49] <kreign> :|
[23:36:55] <kreign> kdavy, ok, so it's a piece of shit, in other words. jesus.
[23:36:59] <kreign> kdavy, what year was it?
[23:37:03] <kdavy_> 1998
[23:37:13] <kreign> ah, what year(s) are the 'new' ones, and they any good?
[23:37:26] <kdavy_> no, the car itself is fine, so is the engine - i have the same engine in my TT. i was just an idiot back then
[23:38:08] <kreign> heh
[23:38:23] <kreign> kdavy, so what causes something like this? http://www.carcomplaints.com/Volkswagen/Passat/2003/
[23:38:29] <kreign> I've -never- had an engine die
[23:38:38] <kdavy_> i like the 2005+ passats, dont like the 2011+
[23:38:39] <kreign> and I've driven stuff past 300k
[23:38:47] <kreign> (looking at a 2k3 atm)
[23:39:10] <kdavy_> yep, sounds about right. engine failure from low pressure hehe
[23:39:24] <kreign> IDK how much to attribute to stupid people using non-synthetic and how much to contribute to design...
[23:39:27] <kdavy_> top 3 problems are oil-related
[23:39:33] <kreign> could be one of those "I don't need to do regular maintanance" things
[23:39:38] <kreign> kdavy, right.
[23:39:52] <kreign> kdavy, I know with subarus people have the tendancy to just rely on idiot lights and not do regular maint.
[23:47:17] <kdavy_> yeah
[23:47:50] <kdavy_> oh, the 1.8T engine eats timing belts for breakfast - that's another common issue
[23:48:35] <kdavy_> they must be replaced every 65k miles even though manufacturer says 130k miles - most commonly they fail at 80k-90k-ish miles
[23:51:07] <kreign> meh
[23:51:15] <kreign> I replace the V belts in my van every 20k
[23:51:22] <kreign> not such a big deal
[23:51:23] <kreign> well
[23:51:28] <kreign> how much does a timing belt cost for that engine? :P
[23:51:33] <kreign> a V belt is like $5
[23:54:25] <cathederal> so, any ideas on my issue?
[23:56:11] <kdavy_> kreign, replacing a timing belt on a 1.8T is a pain in the ass - labor alone is usually around $600-$800
[23:56:22] <kdavy_> you can't do it without taking out the engine i think
[23:56:29] <kdavy_> cathederal, not sure
[23:56:37] <kreign> kdavy, is it a boxer?
[23:57:08] <kdavy_> kreigh, no, it's I4, but it's sideways mounted and barely fits in the engine bay
[23:57:27] <kreign> kdavy, ew.
[23:57:46] <kdavy_> yeah, even the V6 3.2 takes up less space
[23:58:01] <kreign> guess that's how they got such a thin profile
[23:58:06] <kdavy_> oh and the turbo is behind the engine so you can't even get to it without taking half the engine apart
[23:58:24] <kreign> omg
[23:58:35] <kreign> yeah i'm skipping that one.
[23:58:38] <kdavy_> :)
[23:58:50] <kdavy_> see, car dealer won't tell you shit like this
[23:58:57] <kreign> going to try to find something with the i6 windsor in it...
[23:59:06] <kreign> kdavy, this was a tentative private sale... wife found it.
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