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[00:33:34] <sequoias> hi , does anyone know where I would find the nfuse.dtd file ?
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[00:37:12] <sequoias> asked an answered... nevemind :)
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[06:51:15] <MSilva01> kdavy_: thanks for support my opnion ...
[06:55:30] <kdavy> MSilva01: yeah it's getting ridiculous
[06:55:40] <kdavy> i don't even bother purchasing support at this point
[06:57:13] <MSilva01> :( ... So disappointed
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[07:00:07] <MSilva01> in my opnion the worst things are the poor documentation and the know bugs from the previous versions ...
[07:00:35] <kdavy> oh yeah, especially bugs that linger for 5 years
[07:03:15] <MSilva01> i need to say that everything is working fine because we are citrix partners and we need to sell, but its complicated
[07:05:58] <kdavy> MSilva01: do you sell citrix exclusively?
[07:06:11] <MSilva01> citrix anda microsoft
[07:06:47] <kdavy> you could become a vmware partner as well and give your customers an option
[07:07:34] <kdavy> it's different in my case - we're a hosting provider specializing in hosted desktops, so we depend on citrix even more
[07:07:45] <kdavy> ... and microsoft of course
[07:08:02] <kdavy> but the point is, we can choose the back-end technology to use, but we're stuck with xenapp
[07:08:18] <MSilva01> but 90% of our projects are Citrix
[07:08:32] <MSilva01> yes ... its true
[07:08:52] <MSilva01> xenapp and xendesktop
[07:09:06] <kdavy> MSilva01: a lot of people deploy xenapp and xendesktop on vSphere
[07:09:15] <gblfxt> well, those are the people paying
[07:09:52] <kdavy> gblfxt: everyone is paying, some are just choosing to pay more than others for a more mature back-end platform
[07:10:12] <gblfxt> i wouldnt mind hosting linux systems, but they arnet paying or interested in being hosted
[07:10:23] <MSilva01> yes ... nowadays a lot of people prefer a free solution like xenserver
[07:10:33] <kdavy> yeah
[07:10:44] <kdavy> MSilva01: i dont consider xenserver a free solution
[07:11:16] <kdavy> "free" always bites you in the ass. you either get enterprise licensing or it becomes a support nightmare
[07:11:23] <MSilva01> and we know that the problem is not only xenserver
[07:11:43] <kdavy> rather, the problems with xenserver persist even in the platinum edition
[07:12:05] <kdavy> and the problems aren't just in xenserver, yes. xenapp is full of issues too
[07:12:32] <MSilva01> provisioning, smart auditor, edgesight
[07:12:54] <gblfxt> xenapp has been running well for us, xendesktop would be a nightmare with qb
[07:13:12] <kdavy> smart auditor isn't even usable since it disables shadowing in the farm
[07:13:38] <kdavy> gblfxt: you think so? i'd imagine qb would be easier to deploy on xendesktop
[07:14:09] <gblfxt> kdavy, alot more control, and a lot less requests for odd addons
[07:14:32] <MSilva01> Citrix needs to stop worrying about products and launching new features and fix existing products, problems that have existed for years
[07:14:51] <kdavy> gblfxt: no one says you have to allow addons on xendesktop. just lock it down like you would on xenapp and pretend nothing changed
[07:15:23] <kdavy> MSilva01: citrix needs to give less control to marketing and more to engineers
[07:15:37] <gblfxt> kdavy, also we dont have to support much browser things
[07:15:38] <MSilva01> yes ... perfect
[07:16:48] <kdavy> gblfxt: ah, you're doing xenapp seamless apps, right?
[07:16:57] <MSilva01> i'm happy  it's not just me who think so
[07:16:59] <gblfxt> kdavy, yes
[07:17:35] <kdavy> gblfxt: then it makes sense. although you could use VM Hosted Apps to essentially allow seamless xendesktop apps
[07:19:22] <kdavy> MSilva01: what's even worse, i think Citrix only tests applications to the point where they look good in a test environment; as soon as you move to production and add some load things start breaking
[07:19:50] <kdavy> and at that point customers already purchased the solution so they can't really back out
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[07:20:37] <gblfxt> kdavy, well, with our setup, people are very grateful to not have to deal with qb, or qb support, lol
[07:21:27] <kdavy> gblfxt: i understand, same goes for us
[07:21:58] <kdavy> with our setup companies don't even have to run their own IT department - we take care of everything
[07:23:00] <gblfxt> kdavy, pricey to keep a competant staff on board?
[07:24:15] <kdavy> gblfxt: for us?
[07:24:28] <gblfxt> kdavy, i just started a couple months ago, and the company im working for is only about 3 years old
[07:25:11] <kdavy> gblfxt: not everyone in the company needs to be competent, tier1 support is our largest department
[07:26:05] <gblfxt> kdavy, we have 4 employees currently, has doubled over the year... lol
[07:26:52] <kdavy> ya, we have 20 people in technical positions
[07:28:40] <gblfxt> at current rate of growth, probably add 4 more this year, 2 sales, 2 tech
[07:29:03] <kdavy> gblfxt: what's your sales:tech ratio currently?
[07:29:14] <gblfxt> 1:1
[07:29:24] <kdavy> heh. ours is 1:10
[07:29:36] <kdavy> we only have two sales people
[07:29:43] <gblfxt> the sales are somewhat tech trained too...
[07:30:13] <kdavy> but yeah if you consider technical sales, a lot of us help out with that as well
[07:32:23] <gblfxt> if we reach your level, i think it will end up being the same ratio... :)
[07:34:45] <kdavy> probably
[07:35:31] <kdavy> hm ok... time to get ready to reboot the SAN :)
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[07:36:21] <gblfxt> currently only have around 200 customers and 20 or so servers
[07:40:08] <kdavy> are your customers mostly small companies with 1-2 seats per account? can't imagine more with quickbooks - bigger accounting departments get more enterprisy products
[07:41:15] <gblfxt> yep, mostly, accounting companies, range from 1-15 clients
[07:41:32] <kdavy> ah ok
[07:41:50] <kdavy> if we had clients that did only accounting, it'd be a nightmare
[07:42:44] <gblfxt> most of our clients know that qb sucks, so not so bad with understanding stability issues... :)
[07:43:19] <kdavy> yeah
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[07:43:47] <gblfxt> usually on our system, it crashes 1/2 the time it would on their own setup
[07:45:58] <kdavy> funny you mention that... i don't remember the last time QB actually crashed for anyone on our system
[07:46:51] <kdavy> must've been a few months ago
[07:47:44] <gblfxt> would they call you if it crashed?  they usually only call us if it crashed a few times in a row
[07:48:34] <kdavy> yeah they would, we conditioned all QB users to do so
[07:49:10] <kdavy> but eventually we got to the point where it is stable - not all features work, but the ones that do work reliably
[07:49:25] <kdavy> and none of the features that don't work are show-stoppers
[07:49:34] <gblfxt> a good practice, ive been trying to get them to write down the times they have issues, so i can look stuff up in the logs
[07:53:10] <gblfxt> if youve managed to stabalize qb, you should look into specializing in it, lol, alot of accountants are interested in stable multiuser qb, and not necessarily having their entire desktop virtualized
[07:53:32] <kdavy> hell no
[07:54:05] <kdavy> as much as we've managed to stabilize it, it is still a pain to support when it comes to licensing, plugins etc etc
[07:54:22] <gblfxt> i hear that
[07:54:40] <kdavy> do your clients use their own licensing or do you own a pool of licenses that you lease to them?
[07:55:11] <kdavy> in our case every company has their own, so it's not that simple
[07:55:17] <gblfxt> if they are new, they can transfer their own licenses
[07:55:31] <gblfxt> we can also lease
[07:55:51] <gblfxt> if they upgrade as a client, they will have to go through specific channels
[07:56:14] <kdavy> transfer their own licenses to you guys? what i mean is, who owns the actual licenses that are on the xenapp servers
[07:56:31] <kdavy> upgrades are another story, i understand
[07:57:07] <gblfxt> mostly the clients own their licenses
[07:58:35] <gblfxt> probably 80% client owned, 20% leased
[07:59:01] <kdavy> ok got it, so you guys are in the same boat as us
[08:13:06] <kdavy> gblfxt: what are you doing awake and sober on a friday night anyway? :)
[08:13:32] <gblfxt> awake, sober? :)
[08:13:47] <gblfxt> i could ask the same thing!
[08:15:47] <kdavy> hehe, i'm doing maintenance
[08:16:16] <kdavy> gotta reboot both controllers on one of the SANs
[08:16:43] <kdavy> technically everything is multipathed so it shouldnt cause downtime, but you can never be too careful
[08:16:50] <gblfxt> i just started a couple of months ago, working on scripts to automate those things... :)
[08:17:00] <kdavy> fun
[08:18:30] <gblfxt> well, it will save me alot of work in the long run
[08:18:55] <kdavy> no it won't, it'll save you time, but there will always be more work
[08:21:14] <gblfxt> if i can do everything from my android phone on a mexican beach, will that still be considered work? :P
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[08:31:14] <kdavy> heh, maybe
[08:31:16] <gblfxt> im hoping to automate citrix more, i dont understand why a vm should drop out of a pool, why doesnt it create a new server, then destroy itself... :-/
[08:31:22] <kdavy> if you can get internet there
[08:32:14] <kdavy> gblfxt: vm dropping out of what pool?
[08:34:37] <gblfxt> kdavy, the app pool
[08:37:43] <gblfxt> it could be that i dont know much about citrix, and out current citrix guy doesnt know much about linux
[08:39:58] <kdavy> well, with your powers combined you should be able to rule the world
[08:40:32] <kdavy> one san controller rebooted, none of the systems even noticed. sweet
[08:41:54] <gblfxt> redudancy rocks... :)
[08:42:27] <gblfxt> k, im off to the great servers in the sky! have a good night kdavy!
[08:42:35] <kdavy> take care gblfxt
[08:42:44] <kdavy> now time to reboot the second controller
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[15:34:25] <sathis> what make the better citrix better than LTSP ?
[15:34:30] <sathis> and idea guys
[15:34:36] <sathis> any idea guys
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[21:33:49] <kdavy> what is LTSP?
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