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[00:26:25] <waynerr> ok playing with the cli did not help, but i somethin really strange
[00:26:49] <waynerr> i tried todo repair over xencenter 2 times, did not work, i let it run over 30min each
[00:27:23] <waynerr> but when i done a rescan on the storage tab of one broken repo all broken repos started working again ^^
[00:28:21] <waynerr> i was now able to start all vms on the system and everything is running as expected for the moment ( i still will do a backup of each vm singly because of this )
[00:30:08] <kdavy_> waynerr, thats good... i guess
[00:31:08] <waynerr> its probably my own fault cause i havent updated this pool for over 1 year now
[00:31:33] <waynerr> one of the vms gone crazy this night with heavy io load this made the whole node crash
[00:32:24] <waynerr> kdavy_, thanks for your help again, the link was a interesting read, alot of new commands for the new cli i could play around with :)
[00:33:46] <waynerr> i dismantle the whole pool soon and put it in a new for this where i use shared storage so updating will be alot easier with xenmotion
[00:57:08] <kdavy_> waynerr, no problem
[01:00:58] <tabularasa> meson is still mia... its my last night here.
[01:03:04] <kdavy_> tabularasa: where you going?
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[01:04:02] <tabularasa> dunno yet
[01:04:38] <kdavy_> vacation?
[01:05:08] <tabularasa> im in atlanta.  meson lives here... was trying to catch up with him
[01:05:22] <kdavy_> ah
[01:13:59] <kreignAFK> kdavy, hey, what would happen if I simply shut down a pool member to change hardware? have you DR tested that?
[01:14:09] <kreignAFK> wondering what would happen if/when he host came back
[01:15:07] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: when no VMs are on it? nothing will happen unless you add some hardware that's different from the rest
[01:15:26] <kreignAFK> kdavy, yeah, problem here is we've got a very large VM on local storage
[01:15:31] <kreignAFK> (700Gb)
[01:15:41] <kreignAFK> the fuckwit who set up the pool put everything on local storage
[01:15:46] <kdavy_> i reboot and take down pool members on a regular basis - for shit like adding RAM, replacing CMOS batteries and similar
[01:15:56] <kreignAFK> no one host in the pool has enough resources to actually host any of the others. :|
[01:16:09] <kreignAFK> kdavy, what if said host were the pool master?
[01:16:34] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: in that case transition the pool master role to another host
[01:16:55] <kreignAFK> kdavy, other than that there should be no complications to simply shutting down, adding ram, and powering back up?
[01:17:12] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: none
[01:17:21] <kreignAFK> gotcha, thanks.
[01:17:49] <kdavy_> unless your environment was seriously fucked to begin with - then who knows
[01:17:51] <kreignAFK> no GUI way to do that, is there? :P
[01:17:59] <kreignAFK> kdavy, this is quite the possibility. :|
[01:18:04] <kdavy_> what, power down the host or transition pool master?
[01:18:49] <kreignAFK> transition pool master.
[01:19:00] <kdavy_> to transition pool master right-click on the host and click "Enter Maintenance Mode..." - it will guide you
[01:19:15] <kdavy_> it won't let you shut down an active pool master from the gui
[01:19:59] <kreignAFK> kdavy, hmm... I thought maint mode resulted in removal from the pool?
[01:20:09] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: no it doesnt
[01:20:20] <kreignAFK> I do -not- want to do that (on account of the local storage being all that is important to said hosts)
[01:20:30] <kdavy_> i have a host in maintenance mode right now just so i can mess with some new pool storage on it without affecting VMs
[01:20:47] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: have you seen this yet? http://echelog.com/stats/citrix.html
[01:21:54] <kreignAFK> huuuh most active near midnight huh
[01:22:07] <kreignAFK> wonder what the gmt offset is
[01:22:17] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: the time zone is messed up, the server doing the stats is in Denmark
[01:22:25] <kreignAFK> heh
[01:22:36] <kdavy_> 7 hours offset
[01:22:41] <kreignAFK> well you're a chatty bitch. :)
[01:23:14] * kdavy_ slaps kreignAFK with a trout, for statistics sake
[01:23:26] * kreignAFK concurs heartily
[01:23:56] <kreignAFK> apparently I'm fucking vulgar.
[01:24:02] <kreignAFK> 0.4%
[01:24:05] <kreignAFK> that's a decent percentage.
[01:24:25] <kreignAFK> ma always said I'd succeed at anything I attempted.
[01:25:35] <kdavy_> i'm not quite sure how what the stats consider vulgar
[01:25:54] <kreignAFK> heh
[01:25:57] <kreignAFK> yeah.
[01:26:02] <kreignAFK> probably 'radio words'
[01:26:15] <kdavy_> i dont think the stat thing can parse words out of sentences, it's probably only if you say one bad word
[01:26:45] <kreignAFK> hmm maybe.
[01:26:50] <kreignAFK> I doubt it.
[01:26:59] <kreignAFK> kdavy, surely you know of regular expressions? :)
[01:27:12] <kreignAFK> i remember seeing that very same stat package for other channels in the past.
[01:27:23] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: it's not my site, i just asked the guy to add our channel to his
[01:27:54] <kreignAFK> kdavy, at any rate... migrating pool master = non-destructive. so migrate, shut down that host, upgrade ram... or just shutdown non-master hosts and add ram...
[01:27:58] <kreignAFK> kdavy, gotcha
[01:28:12] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: precisely
[01:28:36] <kdavy_> if migrating pool master was destructive, no one would use xenserver :)
[01:28:53] <kdavy_> aside from idiots like your precursor, of course
[01:29:10] * kdavy_ is assuming he wasn't very bright
[01:29:51] <kreignAFK> kdavy, on the contrary, he's bright. just a fucking peddler.
[01:30:20] <kreignAFK> made shit complicated for the sake of complication because "it's better"
[01:30:25] <kreignAFK> eg. tagged trunks
[01:30:30] <kdavy_> yeah, i wouldn't approve of that
[01:30:32] <kreignAFK> mac restrictions on switch
[01:30:44] <kreignAFK> concur.
[01:31:01] <kreignAFK> anyway, there's likelihood I won't be here long enough to have to deal with this in earnest.
[01:31:05] <kdavy_> oh so i got two more Xyratex shelves, now got a total of 7
[01:31:18] <kreignAFK> not familiar with those. disk shelves?
[01:31:27] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: yeah
[01:31:38] <kreignAFK> nice.
[01:31:42] <kreignAFK> forgive me
[01:31:43] <kdavy_> 3U, 16 10k 146Gb disks per shelf
[01:31:47] <kreignAFK> i've got to get back to something.
[01:31:51] <kreignAFK> talk when I'm more sane
[01:31:56] <kdavy_> $275 per shelf :-P
[01:32:07] <kreignAFK> damn
[01:32:09] <kreignAFK> link?
[01:32:11] <kreignAFK> heh
[01:32:26] <kdavy_> the guy that sells them has none left :)
[01:32:57] <kreignAFK> hah
[01:33:01] <kreignAFK> well will he be getting more?
[01:33:04] <kreignAFK> or at least to the product
[01:33:07] <kreignAFK> curious what the thing is
[01:33:21] <kdavy_> i think it's not a bad deal... 16Tb of FC storage, 13k raw IOPs for little over $2k
[01:33:39] <kreignAFK> ya think?
[01:33:46] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: no, he won't be getting any more
[01:33:52] <kreignAFK> bummer.
[01:33:55] <kreignAFK> EOL'd?
[01:34:28] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: of course. came from an old supercomputing cluster of a well-known oil company
[01:35:04] <kreignAFK> seems to me the 'best' way to go about that sorta thing is get something like a pair of 1 or 2u hosts with a handful of SSDs for your ZIL with your storage off the back via FC or what have you
[01:35:06] <kdavy_> the guy mentioned to me today that he has 15 IBM x3650's that just arrived... i'm waiting for specs and pricing from him, but i have no use for them
[01:35:11] <kreignAFK> I'm not familiar enough with fc to comment on it.
[01:35:24] <kreignAFK> kdavy, huuuh.
[01:36:01] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: that's exactly how i'm building this storage array - two HA nodes with SSDs talking to the shelves
[01:36:12] <kreignAFK> kdavy, if they're VT capable I could probably use them. email me if they're reasonable?
[01:37:02] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: sure
[01:37:03] <kreignAFK> if a shelf fails, is it redundant?
[01:37:34] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: the only non-redundant thing in the shelf is the backplane; otherwise it has redundant PSUs and ESMs
[01:37:48] <kreignAFK> ESM...
[01:38:04] <kreignAFK> just wondering how many paths to the storage there are from the VMs
[01:38:38] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: two active paths and two down
[01:38:56] <kdavy_> failover takes 30 seconds, during which VMs pause
[01:39:02] <kreignAFK> ah
[01:44:35] <kreignAFK> kdavy, ok this is driving me batty.
[01:44:49] <kreignAFK> i know i read today "the xenserver host must be standalone and not jointed to a resource pool" to add hardware.
[01:44:52] <kreignAFK> eg. a NIC
[01:44:55] <kreignAFK> but I can't find it now.
[01:45:58] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: adding a NIC or a local hdd is way different from just adding a CPU or RAM
[01:46:43] <kdavy_> same type of CPU or adding RAM will not affect the host's status in the pool in any way
[01:47:32] <kreignAFK> hmm wonder why the hell that citrix article said that, then
[01:47:47] <kreignAFK> here we go: http://support.citrix.com/article/CTX127161
[01:48:30] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: the article is called "How to Replace a Network Interface Card in a XenServer Host"
[01:48:49] <kreignAFK> kdavy, yeah... that's what would need to be done.
[01:48:57] <kdavy_> when you replace a NIC the MAC address changes, which means the pool can become confused
[01:48:59] <kreignAFK> potentially.
[01:49:07] <kreignAFK> gotcha
[01:49:44] <kdavy_> adding CPU or RAm - nothing changes as far as the pool is concerned, so yeah.
[01:49:45] <kreignAFK> certainly a different approach to things than, oh, pretty much everything else.
[01:49:51] <kdavy_> be careful with the NIC swap
[01:49:54] <kreignAFK> yeah.
[01:50:00] <kreignAFK> sounds fraught with oh shit.
[01:51:20] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: my advice to you is, have at least two backup plans. that's how i deal with risky procedures
[01:51:30] <kreignAFK> yeah.
[01:51:35] <kreignAFK> that's how I do, as well.
[01:51:44] <kreignAFK> kdavy, have I bitched at you yet about not having enough storage?
[01:52:05] <kdavy_> kreignAFK: i believe so
[01:52:49] <kreignAFK> essentially, less than 1Tb of online redundant storage if I split shit up available.
[01:53:05] <kreignAFK> I've done about all I can do in terms of documentation of the fact.
[01:53:09] <kdavy_> yeah, luckily i don't have that problem
[01:53:59] <kreignAFK> sounds like your organization is a real gem to work in.
[01:54:08] <kreignAFK> lots of levity, etc.
[01:54:16] <kreignAFK> self-direction
[01:54:28] <kreignAFK> what I'm curious about is how you manage funding and the like, at a budgetary level
[01:54:43] <kreignAFK> since it's kinda like a herd of cats... or engineers... as I understand it. :)
[01:55:37] <kdavy_> heh, hard to explain
[01:55:55] <kdavy_> essentially all net profits go to expansion
[01:56:11] <kdavy_> if it makes sense, that is
[01:56:12] <kreignAFK> is that over bonuses?
[01:56:18] <kreignAFK> or don't you do that?
[01:56:35] <kdavy_> no, we don't do bonuses
[01:56:50] <kreignAFK> raises then? :P
[01:56:58] <kreignAFK> "they don't pay us"
[01:57:25] <kreignAFK> "they have a fridge stocked with beer and cigars, with cots in the back if we get tired"
[01:57:45] <kdavy_> raises are good
[01:57:56] <kreignAFK> heh
[01:58:05] <kdavy_> as far as cigars, i'm afraid not... but we do have a keggerator in the office
[02:04:18] <Rienzilla> a keggerator
[02:04:19] <Rienzilla> awesome :)
[02:06:03] <kdavy_> Rienzilla: yep
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[02:41:52] <tabularasa> i have one of those at my house
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[02:57:13] <kdavy> tabularasa: i know
[02:58:02] <tabularasa> I just like the way it sounds. :-p
[02:58:05] <makson> kdavy: see DM
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[03:33:05] <SpyderZ> Howdy
[03:33:27] <kdavy> chillin'
[03:34:05] <kdavy> SpyderZ: yourself?
[03:34:33] <SpyderZ> Got some ass hot linking a picture from my site for his eBay Auction. I'm going to upload a new copy of the image with something super rude. Any ideas?
[03:35:13] <kdavy> SpyderZ: can i see the picture he was hotlinking first? :)
[03:35:22] <kdavy> that might inspire me to something
[03:35:56] <SpyderZ> This is going to be hilarious.
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[07:08:50] <gblfxt> how do you scale servers for apps that are cpu hogs, but don't multi-thread?
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[12:00:46] <Elias_rus> hi guys
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[16:45:07] <Splatone> Intestestin whitepaper on cloud bridging with xenserver/xenapp http://software.intel.com/file/31983
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[17:18:48] <Lars_G> Excuse me, what is the correct xe syntax to attach an existing vdi (a
[17:18:56] <Lars_G> an .iso) to a running vm temporarily?
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[17:42:17] <lesrar> Lars_G, xe vbd-plug uuid=
[17:42:21] <lesrar> afaik ^^
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[17:58:16] <kdavy_> kreignf: check your email
[18:01:07] <kdavy_> gblfxt: horizontally
[18:02:01] <gblfxt> kdavy: doh, so new servers for overflow? :-/
[18:05:02] <kdavy_> gblfxt: essentially. it's either that, get faster CPUs or rewrite the applications for multithreading
[18:05:49] <kdavy_> you could also virtualize them and do one VM per physical core, but that's considered horizontal scaling as well
[18:08:09] <gblfxt> not our app, we just hosting, and its a piece of crap, which is why people pay us to host it, lol
[18:09:29] <gblfxt> most of the time its not a problem, just when people start running big reports all at once
[18:10:36] <kdavy_> heh, well that's the challenge of hosting - you always have to plan for peak usage
[18:10:48] <kdavy_> either that or lower your SLA
[18:12:25] <gblfxt> im somewhat new to citrix, just checking if there was a trick to managing crappy applications... :)
[18:12:59] <kdavy_> gblfxt: yea, tell the vendor to fix their damn application so it scales
[18:13:32] <gblfxt> kdavy: lol, i wish, the company is notrious for crappy customer assistance too
[18:13:47] <jduggan> are we talking about citrix
[18:13:49] <jduggan> :p
[18:13:50] <kdavy_> gblfxt: is it a fairly well-known app?
[18:14:06] <kdavy_> jduggan: not right now, but the same principle applies
[18:14:16] <kreignf> kdavy, thanks. :)
[18:14:26] <gblfxt> i think this company has citrix beat in crappy customer support, intuit
[18:14:38] <kdavy_> kreignf: what do you think?
[18:14:47] <kdavy_> gblfxt: ahhhhhh, the infamous Quickbooks
[18:15:02] <gblfxt> kdavy: yep, lol
[18:15:09] <kdavy_> gblfxt: we host it too
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[18:15:38] <kreignf> kdavy, I like.
[18:15:44] <kreignf> kdavy, those are 2Us?
[18:15:54] <kdavy_> kreignf: yep
[18:16:04] <gblfxt> kdavy: ah, cool, well, the good thing is customers are used to it crashing all the time, so arn't too pissed when it goes down 5 times a day
[18:16:22] <kdavy_> gblfxt: haha that's true
[18:16:38] <kdavy_> gblfxt: i got it to _almost_ not crash actually
[18:16:57] <kdavy_> kreignf: they would make a decent xenserver farm if you add some memory
[18:17:06] <kreignf> kdavy, yep.
[18:17:12] <kreignf> kdavy, being diskless all the better.
[18:17:42] <kdavy_> kreignf: yea especially since older FC cards or dual port PCI-X nics cost next to nothing these days
[18:17:56] <kreignf> yeup
[18:18:01] <gblfxt> kdavy: just started working here, so begining the road to stabalising it in citrix... any tips? :D
[18:18:04] <kreignf> I doubt anything will happen from it.
[18:18:30] <kreignf> kdavy, I may pick up some for a startup company of mine in cali but I doubt my employer would like 'em
[18:18:45] <kreignf> gblfxt, read the logs. :)
[18:19:01] <kreignf> what're you talking about crashing, btw? :P
[18:19:14] <kdavy_> gblfxt: yea i got a tip. try to make it someone else's responsibility
[18:19:22] <kdavy_> kreignf: Quickbooks
[18:19:52] <gblfxt> kdavy: lol, i do read logs, all that shows up is 'unexpected error 5' :)
[18:20:11] <kdavy_> gblfxt: honestly, if you have the budget, i'd recommend moving all Quickbooks users to XenDesktop
[18:20:28] <kdavy_> or VM Hosted Apps, same thing
[18:20:50] <gblfxt> kdavy: they all on xenapp :D
[18:21:08] <kdavy_> gblfxt: i've seen that error too, very informative
[18:21:30] <MSilva01> gblfxt you can generate a proccess dump and analyze to see what is causing the crash .... a driver, dll ...
[18:21:55] <kdavy_> MSilva01: this is Intuit software we're talking about - crappy code is causing the crash
[18:22:12] <MSilva01> :p
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[18:22:52] <gblfxt> MSilva01: hah, ill try that out, thanks, but like kdavy said, its probably just crappy code... :)
[18:23:48] <MSilva01> you can point a gun to developer's head and ask for a solution ...
[18:24:10] <gblfxt> kdavy: you mentioned making it someone elses problem, i AM the someone else, all we host is quickbooks... lol
[18:25:21] <kdavy_> gblfxt: sometimes rebuilding the QB database and verifying its integrity helps
[18:26:21] <jduggan> if anyone cares to know about my issue, bringing in a brand new pool member is having hte same issues - must be pool master at fault so im having to schedule downtime and reboot it - what a PITA
[18:26:22] <gblfxt> kdavy: cool i'll try that, thanks!
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[18:27:29] <gblfxt> kdavy: we host 100's of qb databases, so maybe not an option though, lol
[18:27:57] <kdavy_> gblfxt: does it crash for everybody or just specific customers?
[18:28:38] <kdavy_> and can you consistently replicate it in a test environment? that's the first step
[18:30:08] <gblfxt> kdavy: no, fairly inconsistent, some customers one day, some another, not even consistent accross versions, but people have less problems in our hosting environment than they do running it on their own systems
[18:30:23] <kdavy_> gblfxt: hehe that's good
[18:31:32] <kdavy_> gblfxt: have you guys rolled out 2011 yet? I've got a tech working on its rollout now
[18:32:11] <gblfxt> kdavy: yes, usually around november we roll out the new versions
[18:32:45] <kdavy_> fun
[18:34:18] <gblfxt> kdavy: be sure to replace the intuit data protect executable with a text file, lol, save you some headache
[18:34:42] <kdavy_> data protect executable - which one is that?
[18:35:41] <gblfxt> IBuEngHost.exe, comes up alot in the logs
[18:36:59] <katano> see ya
[18:37:36] <jduggan> guys - first time im rebooting the 'pool master' since the pool went live - is there anything i should consider/do etc?  I'm planning to just shutdown all running vms on the pool master and reboot it.  When it comes up will it stay master? Should i put it into maintenance mode first even if i shut things down? (i dont use wlb or ha)
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[18:38:26] <kreignf> kdavy, those 3650s are P4 cores aren't they...
[18:38:47] <kdavy_> kreignf: they're based on P4 architecture, but dual core, 64bit and with VT
[18:39:08] <kdavy_> it's the last P4-based Xeons ever made before they switched to the Core architecture
[18:40:00] <kdavy_> http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=28020 - dual core + hyperthreading
[18:40:44] <MSilva01> jduggan ... you need only to rebot the master, if you putt in maintenance you will need to select another master
[18:40:51] <MSilva01> reboot*
[18:41:14] <kdavy_> kreignf: ahhh found one thing that potentially sucks about them: no ECC memory support
[18:41:27] <kreignf> kdavy, I'd actually not realized P4 stuff ever made it into 64 bit chips, nevermind with VT.
[18:41:33] <kreignf> kdavy, I was using opterons all throughout that period.
[18:41:39] <kreignf> kdavy, yeah I just saw that.
[18:41:44] <kreignf> kdavy, well, and the power bill.
[18:42:29] <kdavy_> kreignf: yea it was the chip that was Intel's last attempt at overtaking Opterons on the old architecture
[18:43:33] <kreignf> kdavy, wondering how they might performa against, oh, an i3. :|
[18:43:43] <kdavy_> kreignf: but what you could do is get Xeon 5160's on eBay - they use the same socket and are Core 2 Duo based, and cost $30-$40 a piece
[18:43:53] <kreignf> kdavy, the clincher is the RAM... and the cost thereof.
[18:44:11] <kdavy_> kreignf: yep, i agree
[18:44:15] <kreignf> going to throw 2x their cost @ RAM just to get them to 'servicable'
[18:44:31] <kreignf> at that price I might as well pick up something that has DDR3
[18:45:19] <kdavy_> kreignf: speaking of ram, if you got some older servers, my guy is trying to quickly sell 100x 4Gb PC2-3200 DDR2 ECC chips
[18:45:44] <kdavy_> not sure how much he wants for them, i have zero interest in those chips
[18:45:49] <kreignf> kdavy, LOL
[18:48:16] <kdavy_> i'm not sure where he gets all this crap heh. he just replied to me about the x3650's: "Everyone hates NetBurst"
[18:49:22] <kreignf> lol
[18:50:52] <Splatone> kdavy_ are they ddr2 fbdimms?
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[18:57:51] <kdavy_> Splatone: what are?
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[18:58:56] <kdavy_> they're RDIMMs
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[19:03:54] <kreignf> kdavy, I'll get back to you on the servers. it's basically a numbers game. :P
[19:05:20] <kdavy_> kreignf, i know
[19:05:44] <kdavy_> no need to go through me - just email the guy directly if you want, i'm PMing his address to you
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[19:08:06] <fipu> hi guys
[19:08:24] <kdavy_> hi fipu
[19:08:30] <fipu> How big can a VD be?
[19:08:34] <fipu> on xenserver 5.6
[19:08:46] <fipu> maximal size
[19:08:48] <kdavy_> fipu: 2Tb at least
[19:08:53] <fipu> ou
[19:09:00] <fipu> no solution for more then 2 TB?
[19:09:05] <kdavy_> dont remember if there is a limit
[19:09:09] <kdavy_> but i've done 2Tb
[19:10:05] <fipu> kdavy_: ok thx
[19:10:12] <fipu> I need more then 10 TB...
[19:10:14] <kdavy_> ok xenserver just let me create a 4Tb vdisk
[19:10:23] <kdavy_> so at least that is possible :)
[19:10:31] <kdavy_> fipu: just try it out
[19:10:48] <kdavy_> you do realize its gonna be impossible to back up a 10Tb vDisk right?
[19:11:30] <fipu> Backup exec agent or Acronis on the VM
[19:11:34] <fipu> this is no problem :)
[19:11:59] <kdavy_> fipu: ok, if you're so sure
[19:12:09] <kdavy_> is that for Exchange or something similar?
[19:12:19] <fipu> And snapshot is also no problem, or is it? :D
[19:12:31] <fipu> I have a very big mailbox
[19:12:40] <kdavy_> fipu: hehe, snapshot might be an issue - you'll need double the space essentially
[19:12:54] <fipu> space is no problem
[19:12:58] <fipu> We use 3 TB disks
[19:12:59] <fipu> :)
[19:13:00] <kdavy_> fipu: very big mailbox? 10+ Tb? that's a fucking monstrosity
[19:13:14] <kdavy_> or is it the entire mailbox store?
[19:13:39] <fipu> No, it's just mine :)
[19:14:26] <fipu> And no, I don't mix up GB and TB :)
[19:14:31] <Rienzilla> a 10T mailbox
[19:14:39] <kdavy_> fipu: can i have a copy of it? :) must be a lot of good stuff in there
[19:14:41] <Rienzilla> then youre using mail wrong haha
[19:15:20] <fipu> kdavy_: no, warez is on an other server :)
[19:15:48] <Rienzilla> this is just the pron :0
[19:15:51] <Rienzilla> :)
[19:15:55] <fipu> kdavy_: Just a joke... my mailbox is not so big. But I want to virtualize a Fileserver...
[19:16:22] <kdavy_> fipu: that's a bad idea...
[19:16:27] <fipu> and it got 4x 3 TB disks...
[19:16:31] <fipu> kdavy_: why?
[19:16:38] <kdavy_> performance for one
[19:16:44] <fipu> performance?
[19:16:50] <fipu> why not good?
[19:17:11] <kdavy_> worse than bare metal, maybe not by much but still worse
[19:17:44] <kdavy_> but whatever floats your boat
[19:18:59] <fipu> why worse than a non virtualized server? there are no other VM's that need network performance
[19:19:05] <fipu> only a mailserver (Excahnge)
[19:19:08] <fipu> needs not much traffic...
[19:19:35] <kdavy_> yeah yeah
[19:19:47] <kdavy_> just try it - keep the old server just in case though
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[19:20:21] <kdavy_> file and database servers are not the best things to virtualize
[19:20:49] <kdavy_> right Elias_Rus?
[19:21:54] <fipu> kdavy_: why?
[19:21:56] <fipu> what is then good
[19:21:57] <fipu> ?
[19:21:58] <fipu> :D
[19:22:05] <kdavy_> fipu: everything else
[19:22:10] <fipu> mhhhh
[19:22:13] <fipu> webserver
[19:22:14] <fipu> :D
[19:22:17] <fipu> butt mhh
[19:22:24] <fipu> there is a database on it
[19:22:25] <fipu> hrrrm
[19:22:25] <fipu> not
[19:23:03] <fipu> kdavy_: but why? :D is the performance not so good like a single server (non vm)?
[19:24:43] <Elias_Rus> kdavy, depends on load and scale and budget
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[19:26:23] <Elias_Rus> kdavy, technically it's not an issue to provide I/O performance on VM   like on a phisical server
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[19:31:18] <Elias_Rus> [21:19] <Elias_Rus> kdavy, depends on load and scale and budget
[19:31:18] <Elias_Rus> [21:20] * kdavy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[19:31:18] <Elias_Rus> [21:21] <Elias_Rus> kdavy, technically it's not an issue to provide I/O performance on VM   like on a phisical server
[19:31:51] <kdavy_> Elias_Rus: that's what i mean - it depends
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[19:49:55] <zaf> i have tons of file and sql servers virtualized, works great
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[21:02:39] <jduggan> grrr what is going on
[21:02:43] <jduggan> ive rebooted pool master
[21:02:52] <jduggan> rebooted a slave machine
[21:03:00] <jduggan> i still cant start vms on the slave machine
[21:03:58] <kreignf> holy hell. I can't believe DNF is actually being released.
[21:04:18] <kreignf> kdavy, so little fun experience last night I'd not recalled wrt the memory upgrade.
[21:04:49] <kdavy_> kreignf: DNF?
[21:05:16] <cathederal> question, i have 4 nics bonded in 2 pairs...i want to use one for access to the production network, one pair for iscsi/vm stuff....how is it that I tell xenserver what goes where
[21:05:23] <kreignf> kdavy, Duke Nukem Forever
[21:05:41] <kdavy_> kreignf: you mean Duke Nukem If Ever?
[21:06:22] <kreignf> kdavy, apparently it's actually 'released' enough to be pushed to review boards, which I'm assuming it's near to press.
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[21:06:51] <kdavy_> cathederal: good question :) no idea
[21:07:12] <kreignf> kdavy, May 3rd apparently
[21:07:31] <kreignf> cathederal, um
[21:07:43] <kreignf> cathederal, software iscsi transport?
[21:08:13] <cathederal> ?
[21:08:41] <kreignf> cathederal, I would recommend putting the management stuff on the same interface as the 'VM stuff'/client facing stuff for purposes of role separation via a vlan (mgmt iface is not that expensive, whereas client bandwidth can reduce your ability to easily troubleshoot capacity)
[21:09:01] <kreignf> cathederal, as far as 'where it goes' what you're likely looking for is the routing table.
[21:09:37] <cathederal> well, i have 5 nics, one is management....two are in bond0 and two are in bond1...bond0 goes to one switch, bond1 goes to another switch....if I want to use bond0 for network access and bond1 for iscsi...how do i tell xenserver to differentiate
[21:09:46] <kreignf> I've not yet seen XS have a problem with that kind of setup, as far as knowing what goes where. Assuming you're using DNS, you could either do split zones/horizon or give each their own sub domain...
[21:10:15] <kreignf> cathederal, maybe you need to explain what you mean by 'differentiate'
[21:10:28] <kreignf> unless you assign them the same IPs, it should be pretty clear cut.
[21:11:14] <cathederal> in the VM pool on the network tab, i have Internal LAN as Bond 4+5 and VM / iSCSI Network as Bond 6+7
[21:11:17] <jduggan> 5.5 has no concept of separating management from 'storage' unless you take the pifs out of management and manually assign
[21:11:28] <jduggan> i think 5.6fp1 has that feature...
[21:11:46] <cathederal> servers will have an ip of 160.0 (VLAN 160) and iSCSI stuff is 60.0 (VLAN 60)
[21:11:56] <cathederal> i'm using 5.6fp1
[21:12:33] <cathederal> i installed the licensing vm that citrix provides to a 30gb share i made....i gave it an ip address of 160.7 but I can't access it
[21:12:48] <cathederal> bond 4+5 is automatically assigned to the VM
[21:12:57] <kreignf> cathederal, 'can't access it' in what manner? ping the host?
[21:13:01] <cathederal> yes
[21:13:06] <kreignf> then you did something wrong.
[21:13:20] <kreignf> subnet maybe?
[21:14:05] <cathederal> do i need to do any port bonding on the switch side?  or just on the xenserver side
[21:14:14] <cathederal> i'm not using lacp
[21:15:57] <jduggan> does anyone know what duplicate key veridian means? In xenserver terms?  I'm having a nightmare with this pool :( things wont migrate
[21:19:23] <cathederal> right now, the server has two onboard nics (bond4+5) and two external nics (bond6+7).  bond4+5 goes to switch1 and is set in xenserver as internal LAN.  bond6+7 goes to switch2 and is set as iscsi.
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[21:19:48] <cathederal> is it better to use say 4+6 and 5+7 and do those as bonds? or what?
[21:20:19] <cathederal> right now, bond4+6 in switch one is untagged to the iscsi vlan and tagged on the server vlan
[21:20:28] <cathederal> so....it should still work correctly right?
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[21:27:26] <cathederal> bueller?>
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[21:37:24] <jduggan> is vm-reset-powerstate forced shutdown? or is that an internal 'this is really turned off' incase of pool disconnects/fuckkups ?
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[21:49:09] <kdavy_> jduggan: the latter mostly
[21:50:02] <jduggan> i really really dont know whats going on with this pool
[21:50:11] <jduggan> pool master and slave rebooted
[21:50:14] <jduggan> vms wont migrate etc
[21:50:50] <tabularasa> Anyone goto the "XenApp & XenDesktop Management with PowerShell (Webinar)" Today?
[21:51:53] <jduggan> i need to invest in an ipkvm to plug into our analogue rack kvm... apc reboots are scary :P
[21:54:43] <kdavy_> jduggan, what error do vms get when migrating?
[21:55:00] <jduggan> kdavy_: something about attaching to vbd with an opaque reference
[21:55:10] <jduggan> kdavy_: let me get the error for you
[21:57:03] <jduggan> (it also cant start some vms on that box)
[21:59:18] <jduggan> its weird
[21:59:21] <jduggan> are you still here kdavy_ ?
[21:59:25] <jduggan> Feb 11 20:53:47 ashcloud05 TAPDISK[8131]: tap-err:vhd_initialize_bat: /var/run/sr-mount/2a913b4b-0f1b-71e4-2a0f-3cc4159833cf/f3725de9-1579-4b45-9aca-11579183cba3.vhd: reading bat: -5
[21:59:30] <jduggan> Feb 11 20:53:47 ashcloud05 kernel: nfs: server 10.0.10.34 not responding, timed out
[22:01:48] <jduggan> what on earth is going on with that
[22:03:12] <jduggan> oh god, just noticed the pool master is not using jumbo frames - you wouldnt think that would cause it??
[22:03:32] <jduggan> crap
[22:03:34] <jduggan> bet its that
[22:04:02] <jduggan> wank pants
[22:04:03] <jduggan> its that
[22:04:20] <jduggan> ifconfig eth0 mtu 9000; ifconfig xenbr0 mtu 9000
[22:04:22] <jduggan> worky works
[22:04:35] <jduggan> i need to rape myself with a lexington steele shaped dildo
[22:04:47] * jduggan puts it in startup script
[22:04:55] <jduggan> stupid 5.6 not natively supporting jumbos
[22:06:01] <jduggan> that would explain the weird storage issues..
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[22:09:37] <kdavy_> jduggan: lol
[22:10:11] <jduggan> i was about to go jackie chan on citrix
[22:10:16] <jduggan> but chrisis is averted
[22:10:25] <jduggan> crisis
[22:10:30] <kdavy_> jduggan: nah, we still need to go jackie chan on them
[22:10:34] <jduggan> lol
[22:10:42] * jduggan thought you were citrix staff
[22:10:45] <jduggan> your enot?
[22:10:52] <kdavy_> jduggan: hah no
[22:11:22] <kdavy_> i'm a systems architect
[22:11:28] <kdavy_> at a service provider
[22:11:49] <kdavy_> we use citrix for back-end and for our managed desktop solutions
[22:11:57] <jduggan> who are you working for? (you dont have to answer that i respect peoples rights to irc anonymity)
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[22:12:10] <kdavy_> Xvand Technology
[22:12:34] <jduggan> interesting
[22:12:39] <kdavy_> our corporate website is a tragedy though - here's the marketing one: http://www.isutility.com/
[22:13:12] <kdavy_> that one is less of a tragedy
[22:13:35] <jduggan> i come from a network engineering background working for ISPs in the uk, but started out in unix systems and architecture... a customer of the ISP poached me for this whole cloud thing and now im building out * from a technical point of view doing a similar thing really
[22:13:50] <jduggan> im hoping to role our own dsl platform to tie in with customer hosted platforms
[22:14:25] <kdavy_> like cloudbursting? or cloud DR?
[22:14:30] <jduggan> they somehow got a load of contracts worth big bucks with shit infrastructure
[22:14:57] <jduggan> well cloud is one of these buzzwords which is open to interpretation.. its basically virtual machines with full DR
[22:15:00] <kdavy_> haha the more 0's in the contracts, the further they are from reality usually
[22:15:43] <kdavy_> basically. that's why i dont like buzzwords
[22:15:45] <jduggan> yea so anyway we mostly wipe out company infrastructure and host it in citrix at the datacneter and get a pipe into the datacenter for the customer, if theyre remote we bond adsl
[22:15:58] <kdavy_> managed desktops - simple enough
[22:16:00] <kdavy_> yeah we do the same thing
[22:16:06] <jduggan> one of our trading names is mycloudhost.co.uk
[22:16:47] <jduggan> its basically hosted desktops
[22:17:03] <jduggan> wyse terminals into windows terminal servers
[22:17:15] <kdavy_> yep
[22:17:25] <jduggan> for the most part
[22:17:31] <kdavy_> hm do you do end user support as well?
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[22:17:51] <kdavy_> or more IT-level support
[22:17:54] <jduggan> we only have 6 xenservers but they have historically been standalone servers which has worked well but they have got overloaded and maintenance is a nightmare
[22:18:06] <jduggan> yep - we have a support desk which is virtual IT support
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[22:19:12] <jduggan> we have one customer paying us ~150k USD/year for what is essentially 3 virtual servers with 'IT Support' - its about 80 users, mos tproblems are just printers...
[22:19:12] <kdavy_> jduggan: i mean what type of things do you support. can an end-user just call you with something like "i moved this e-mail somewhere and i can't find it now" and you'll help them for free?
[22:19:25] <jduggan> kdavy_: yea they can - depends on teh contracts
[22:19:32] <kdavy_> for free = at no additional charge
[22:20:15] <kdavy_> jduggan: yeah then you guys do pretty much the same thing we do - all-inclusive support
[22:20:30] <jduggan> kdavy_: the company basically was an IT support company... they did IT Support by remotely managing servers and being at the end of the phone for companies.. using logmein/teamviewer apps etc to get onto remote machines and worst case sending someone onsite if its a real clusterfuck
[22:20:31] <kdavy_> except in a different country :)
[22:20:44] <jduggan> we basically started the cloud stuff to take the infrastructure into our own hands
[22:20:50] <jduggan> so it was customer only
[22:20:55] <jduggan> but now we push it via google etc
[22:21:04] <jduggan> and pickup customers like finance/legal/insurance
[22:21:09] <jduggan> who manage their own stuff
[22:21:11] <jduggan> and we just hostit
[22:21:21] <jduggan> again i use the term cloud loosely
[22:21:25] <kdavy_> yeah, we started doing 100% our own infrastructure from the start in 2001, never did any onsite break-fix stuff
[22:21:34] <jduggan> so basically
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[22:21:45] <jduggan> i started trialling the citrix xenapps stuff
[22:21:52] <jduggan> but its been a cluster fuck
[22:21:57] <jduggan> given i was trialing xa6
[22:22:03] <kdavy_> xenapp is sweet but buggy as hell
[22:22:31] <jduggan> again - last 6 years ive been building networks for an ISP, so ive lost touch with all the sysarch stuff
[22:22:42] <jduggan> yea xenapp i was really really really really impressed with while i was evaluating it
[22:22:54] <jduggan> i think i had a 120day license
[22:22:57] <jduggan> on which i ran it internally
[22:23:03] <jduggan> ran all our own apps frmo it
[22:23:13] <jduggan> but putting it into the real world was a totally different scenario
[22:23:21] <kdavy_> heh, isnt it always?
[22:23:35] <jduggan> i was hopign to get wyse terminals with an ica client and do seamless published apps
[22:23:50] <jduggan> it all worked very well until the terminal servers started to hang
[22:23:58] <jduggan> and soft reboots hung
[22:24:01] <jduggan> forcing hard reboots
[22:24:19] <kdavy_> jduggan: piece of advice - get Tricerat Screwdrivers. our call volume dropped in half because it solved all printer problems in one go
[22:24:44] <kdavy_> if you stay on pure Terminal Services that is
[22:25:00] <kdavy_> if you move to XenApp it does a good enough job with printers
[22:28:17] <jduggan> well we evaluated and were impressed with 2x
[22:28:33] <jduggan> not wyse compatible.. but for our customers with phat clients
[22:28:35] <jduggan> works really really well
[22:28:41] <jduggan> not as well as xa
[22:28:44] <jduggan> by far
[22:28:49] <jduggan> xa is much sleeker/faster
[22:28:55] <jduggan> but 2x is a doddle to manage
[22:29:03] <jduggan> it has a universal printer drive also which is why we use it
[22:29:24] <jduggan> driver*
[22:34:24] <kdavy_> jduggan: yeah i heard good things about 2x
[22:34:39] <kdavy_> but i decided to do xenapp because of their CSP program
[22:34:52] <jduggan> thats exactly why i wanted to do xa
[22:35:00] <jduggan> btw - have you done the certs yet?
[22:35:05] <kdavy_> jduggan: no one is stopping you from doing both
[22:35:11] <jduggan> iirc i had to have 2 staff members cca
[22:35:23] <kdavy_> i got the xenserver 5.6 administration cert, thats it
[22:35:23] <jduggan> but we're doing csp for maybe 6months now with no cca'd staff :)
[22:35:27] <jduggan> ah
[22:35:33] <kdavy_> they dont force you to do certs up front, they dont care
[22:35:37] <jduggan> was it easy?
[22:36:02] <kdavy_> it was hell, but that's because i took the beta exam. 209 very complex questions
[22:39:38] <makson> wow - looks like if you have SA on the desktop, then you have MDOP which includes APP-V...
[22:39:41] <makson> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/software-assurance/faq.aspx
[22:39:42] <makson> am i reading that right?
[22:39:53] <makson> I thought it was only included if you purchased RDS cals' .
[22:40:35] <jduggan> kdavy_: out of interest - do you ever run SBS on xen?
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[22:48:38] <tabularasa> SBS is the devil
[22:49:48] <tabularasa> makson: looks that way, but damn MS licensing is confusing
[22:53:08] <jduggan> tabularasa: that it is - Its my opinion that running 3 virtual servers is better performance than running 1 SBS :P
[22:54:10] <jduggan> question for you guys - do you use any management platform for managing your M$ licenses?
[22:55:08] <jduggan> ive just taken responsibility of auditing and updating SPLA stuff... what a cluster fuck
[22:55:22] <jduggan> its really no wonder there's even a m$ cert for it
[22:55:47] <jduggan> afaik even with SBS sals you still need the TS sals right?
[22:56:04] <jduggan> there's so much gone undeclared here..
[22:56:32] <jduggan> also nobody here knew if you had windows datacenter per physical machine you didnt have to pay per windows virtual install..
[23:04:52] <tabularasa> yeah, i'm pretty sure you still need RDS cals even with SBS
[23:04:59] <tabularasa> dunno though for sure...
[23:05:21] <tabularasa> Enterprise gives you like 4 copys...  Datacenter gives you umlimited iirc
[23:05:23] <tabularasa> per physical host
[23:06:44] <jduggan> yea
[23:07:05] <jduggan> this month ive just changed it to 6 datacenter copies in our spla report
[23:07:11] <jduggan> and sacked off all teh guest ones
[23:07:18] <jduggan> what would be nice
[23:07:39] <jduggan> is an nms that can poll all this shit and give me a monthly report of licenses used
[23:07:43] <tabularasa> now, are you actually running datacenter, or are you just reporting it?  thats what i'm not sure of
[23:07:52] <jduggan> just reporting it
[23:07:57] <jduggan> which apparently is fine
[23:08:02] <tabularasa> is it?
[23:08:11] <tabularasa> i'm running standard and wanted to do the same thing
[23:08:23] <jduggan> and i have a recorded voice conversation with our account manager confirming it - just incase :P
[23:08:41] <jduggan> yea
[23:08:45] <jduggan> he assured me
[23:08:57] <tabularasa> i should ask too
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[23:28:36] <eaguirrev> Good Afternoon everybody
[23:28:47] <eaguirrev> anyone with experience on xenserver
[23:36:20] <kdavy_> yo, anyone has any input on UserGate? good/bad
[23:36:34] <kdavy_> eaguirrev: what is xenserver?
[23:47:29] <eaguirrev> xenserver 5.6fp1
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