[00:03:29] *** deltab has quit IRC
[00:03:56] *** deltab has joined #bittorrent
[00:48:07] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkLq1j1kOaU&NR=1
[00:51:42] *** stalled has quit IRC
[00:53:14] <mpl> brilliant
[00:54:11] *** stalled has joined #bittorrent
[01:25:16] *** stalled has quit IRC
[01:28:27] *** stalled has joined #bittorrent
[01:47:25] *** stalled has quit IRC
[01:49:13] *** stalled has joined #bittorrent
[02:49:16] *** chelz has joined #bittorrent
[02:57:05] *** senex has joined #bittorrent
[03:06:08] *** danohuiginn has quit IRC
[04:00:32] *** The_8472 has quit IRC
[04:04:32] *** The_8472 has joined #bittorrent
[04:22:43] *** ProperNoun has joined #bittorrent
[04:54:25] *** edigaryev has joined #bittorrent
[04:54:48] *** senex has quit IRC
[05:05:44] <Switeck> Private trackers banning uTorrent v2.0?  http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?pid=453406#p453406
[05:13:19] *** neurodrone has quit IRC
[05:13:39] *** neurodrone has joined #bittorrent
[05:21:43] *** SeanNoble has left #bittorrent
[05:36:41] <chelz> oh dang, that would be wild if a lot of popular sites decided to drop support for utorrent
[05:36:50] <chelz> i wonder what windows client people would use then
[05:37:18] <Switeck> Vuze or Deluge seems closest ones that aren't banned already (BitComet!)
[05:37:29] <chelz> haha
[05:37:33] <chelz> oh god i hope not Bitcomet
[05:37:56] <Switeck> BitComet has mostly been banned because of their behavior in the past.
[05:38:04] <Switeck> (They still are evil though...)
[05:41:29] *** init0 has quit IRC
[05:41:59] <chelz> yeah i think the torrent world would do okay without bitcomet heh
[05:42:31] <chelz> i wonder if something like halite might become popular. since vuze and deluge aren't really lightweight like utorrent
[05:42:47] <Switeck> Is Halite still under development?
[05:42:52] *** init0 has joined #bittorrent
[05:45:46] <chelz> i'm not sure, it might not be
[05:46:00] <Switeck> If it's not, I don't want lots of people flocking to it.
[05:46:35] <Switeck> I'm not convinced private trackers will be willing to totally ban uTorrent..that'd be pretty stupid to even briefly kick off maybe 60-95% of their users.
[05:47:12] *** Gottaname2 has quit IRC
[05:47:25] <Switeck> They'll probably ban uTorrent v2.0 and suggest people run v1.6 or something more ancient, buggy, and bad.
[05:47:28] *** Gottaname2 has joined #bittorrent
[05:48:27] *** erk has quit IRC
[05:49:09] <charles> I'm not sure "Pro Wrestling Torrents" banning uTorrent 2.0 is the end of the world for uTorrent :)
[05:49:26] <chelz> heh is that really what PWT stands for?
[05:49:43] <charles> that's what Google says anyway
[05:50:19] <chelz> eh and it wouldn't be the first time 'scenester'ish people tried to get people to stick with older formats. rar vs 7z and the avi container vs mkv for example.
[05:51:21] *** erk has joined #bittorrent
[06:04:41] *** edigaryev has quit IRC
[06:10:20] <Switeck> format wars...
[06:10:50] <Switeck> in p2p...BitTorrent won, now we're fighting BT "flavor" wars and version wars. :P
[06:11:40] *** neurodrone has quit IRC
[06:44:59] *** MassaRoddel has quit IRC
[07:14:19] *** MassaRoddel has joined #bittorrent
[07:18:15] *** Adjective has joined #bittorrent
[07:21:25] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC
[07:39:46] *** _rafi_ has joined #bittorrent
[07:47:39] *** danohuiginn has joined #bittorrent
[07:54:10] *** senex has joined #bittorrent
[08:23:51] *** mxs has quit IRC
[08:23:54] *** mxs has joined #bittorrent
[08:23:54] *** mxs has joined #bittorrent
[09:05:27] *** GTHK has quit IRC
[09:06:00] *** danohuiginn has quit IRC
[09:18:28] *** virgil has joined #bittorrent
[09:21:14] *** virgil has quit IRC
[09:26:32] *** Switeck has quit IRC
[09:44:04] *** danohuiginn has joined #bittorrent
[11:01:35] *** edigaryev has joined #bittorrent
[11:14:44] *** _rafi_ has quit IRC
[11:20:36] *** mxs has quit IRC
[12:10:28] *** goussx has quit IRC
[12:33:14] *** init0 has quit IRC
[12:34:28] *** init0 has joined #bittorrent
[14:52:49] *** Mlouis has joined #bittorrent
[14:53:02] <Mlouis> !list
[14:53:03] <BitTorrentBot> Read the /topic. No file sharing allowed.
[14:53:17] *** Mlouis has left #bittorrent
[15:16:45] *** Adjective has quit IRC
[15:17:05] *** ProperNoun has joined #bittorrent
[15:18:59] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC
[15:19:21] *** ProperNoun has joined #bittorrent
[15:29:14] *** chelz has quit IRC
[15:32:21] *** Andrius has joined #bittorrent
[16:05:16] *** cyb2063 has joined #bittorrent
[16:32:25] *** neurodrone has joined #bittorrent
[16:41:50] *** senex has quit IRC
[16:46:33] *** neurodrone has quit IRC
[17:00:40] *** THEONE has joined #bittorrent
[17:14:01] <THEONE> can anyone point me to step by step to impliment bittorrent protocol
[17:14:47] <kjetilho> no
[17:15:36] <kjetilho> the Internet doesn't need another implementation of BitTorrent written by someone who doesn't read and understand the specification
[17:17:42] <TheSHAD0W> X_X
[17:17:47] * TheSHAD0W thwaps kjetilho
[17:17:55] <TheSHAD0W> THEONE: http://bittorrent.org
[17:18:55] <THEONE> i get your point of view, the aim is not a general implimentation , but a personal specific use case
[17:19:16] <kjetilho> use a library?
[17:19:38] <THEONE> is there on you would recomment that works with AS3?
[17:19:46] <THEONE> Actionscript 3
[17:19:55] <THEONE> i have found none so far
[17:19:57] <kjetilho> that's Flash?
[17:20:14] <THEONE> the flash scripting! yes
[17:20:34] <kjetilho> isn't that impossible to do due to its security model?
[17:20:54] <THEONE> if you know one library that is  C++ ( well documentated that would be good two)
[17:20:57] <TheSHAD0W> It might work if you don't mind being firewalled.
[17:21:00] <kjetilho> ie. it can't open network connections to random hosts?
[17:21:03] <THEONE> well as i say , its a personal use case
[17:22:09] <charles> THEONE: libtorrent (rasterbar), libtransmission, and libtorrent (rakshasa) are all C/C++ implementations of BitTorrent
[17:22:21] <charles> libtorrent (rasterbar) is by far used by the most applications
[17:22:54] <charles> libtransmission and libtorrnet (rakshasa) are primarly used by single applications (transmission and rtorrent, respectively)
[17:23:15] <A9> kjetilho: you're correct
[17:23:16] <charles> all three have their strengths though
[17:24:30] <THEONE> sounds like a good list to start with, ill check out their sites( if they have any) and see what i find
[17:24:50] <A9> Flash's security policy was something I looked into with an idea of web based streaming off the swarm, basically, previews without hosting the content. What you'd need to use if you want a web applet to stream off the swarm is Java I'm afraid.
[17:24:53] <THEONE> although iw as hoping for a step by step guide
[17:24:57] <A9> And no one likes java applets.
[17:26:50] <THEONE> another twist , are there any libraries that i can use on windows?
[17:27:09] <THEONE> without cygwin that is
[17:27:47] <cyb2063> why is the case so special you cannot use clients that are already there and working anyway?
[17:29:50] <THEONE> i am hoping to build a client / server to distribute content encrypted with custom encryption
[17:30:18] <THEONE> <kjetilho> : what did you mean its not possible because of the securith model?
[17:30:25] <kjetilho> http://www.adobe.com/livedocs/flash/9.0/main/wwhelp/wwhimpl/common/html/wwhelp.htm?context=LiveDocs_Parts&file=00000347.html
[17:30:59] <charles> THEONE: of the three I listed, the only one actively supported on Windows is libtorrent (rasterbar)
[17:31:17] <kjetilho> you'll might be able to implement a BitTorrent look-alike, but since the client needs to support a socket policy file, it won't interoperate with normal clients
[17:31:52] <charles> libtransmission works on Windows, but is not supported.  I don't know about rakshasa
[17:32:01] *** dijenerate has joined #bittorrent
[17:33:24] <THEONE> hah i see what you mean about the model............
[17:33:29] <THEONE> thats food for thought
[17:33:45] *** danohuiginn has left #bittorrent
[17:33:57] *** _rafi_ has joined #bittorrent
[17:35:19] <THEONE> Thanks guys - jah guide and protect
[17:51:18] <alus> charles: I am 95% certain that rakshasa does not work on Windows, support aside
[17:52:36] *** neurodrone has joined #bittorrent
[18:14:07] *** THEONE has quit IRC
[18:32:17] *** wojci has quit IRC
[18:34:14] *** GTHK has joined #bittorrent
[18:48:55] *** wojci has joined #bittorrent
[18:50:34] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent
[18:58:58] *** mxs has joined #bittorrent
[18:58:58] *** mxs has joined #bittorrent
[19:02:12] <A9> alus: If you're around, do you want to put some rumors about uT 2 to rest for me?
[19:02:41] <A9> I'm hearing a lot of wild stories, so I'd like to get some direct information from you, if you don't mind.
[19:02:44] <DreadWingKnight> A9: starting with the "preferencing"?
[19:03:15] <A9> Among others
[19:03:50] <DreadWingKnight> the "preferencing" is an artifact of uTP pairing negotiating faster than tcp connections
[19:04:14] <DreadWingKnight> it wasn't intentional, and WILL go away as uTP support spreads
[19:04:28] <A9> So it connects to those peers faster?
[19:04:30] <DreadWingKnight> private trackers that ban 2.0 for this should also ban ALL seedboxes on their systems
[19:05:16] <A9> Yeah, I'm not about to ban something for being too fast, what I'm more curious about are the rumors of clients preferencing of who to request pieces from changing.
[19:05:47] <DreadWingKnight> nope
[19:05:58] <DreadWingKnight> that's pure rumour
[19:06:12] <DreadWingKnight> and if it is happening, it's only another artifact of uTP
[19:06:37] <A9> Out of curiosity, who are you? :P
[19:06:47] <A9> (Information is only as reliable as it's source.)
[19:07:15] <A9> Who are you in relation to the bittorrent community.*
[19:07:22] <DreadWingKnight> support staff for uT, developer of cbtt
[19:08:45] <A9> Does uTorrent requets more peers than it allows connections?
[19:09:58] <A9> Because if it doesn't then all the rumors I'm hearing appear to be unfounded.
[19:12:33] <charles> A9: I think what's happening is uTorrent is able to initate connections via uTP much faster than via TCP.  So as a side-effect it connects to more uTP peers
[19:13:54] <A9> I'm aware, and that only causes a problem if uTorrent doesn't attempt to connect to all peers the tracker sends.
[19:14:54] <A9> Because if it stops after say the first 20 connected peers but requests 40, then the ignored _may_ always be TCP.
[19:15:28] <A9> If it requests 20 and connects to 20, there's absolutely no problem.
[19:15:40] <A9> that comes down to the trackers selectiont hen
[19:15:40] <DreadWingKnight> pretty sure it doesn't, and honestly, seedboxes are a bigger problem than uTP's artifacts
[19:15:42] <A9> then*
[19:16:25] <A9> seedboxes aren't the problem, the lack of investment in residental infastructure is
[19:17:15] <DreadWingKnight> outside of sweden and japan, who can actually compete with a seedbox for ratio?
[19:17:36] <A9> you shouldn't lower the transfer rates to meet the bottom tier
[19:17:38] <A9> Anyone?
[19:18:37] <DreadWingKnight> when you're punishing the bottom tier because the top tier isn't playing nice, you need to look at something
[19:18:56] <A9> See, the problem isn't so much seedboxes
[19:19:06] <A9> it's the acquisition of ratio
[19:19:17] <A9> those users with seedboxes build up their ratios, but never use it
[19:19:30] <DreadWingKnight> and kill the ability of regular users to acquire ratio
[19:19:42] <DreadWingKnight> hence The_8472's "losing the 0-sum game" point
[19:20:59] <A9> I need to pull together an economics stats page on our tracker in the near future, but I'm convinced there's a better way to make things easier than telling people to slow down
[19:22:02] <DreadWingKnight> if you're enforcing a 1:1 ratio on every user, you've already failed
[19:22:19] <A9> We're not
[19:22:46] <A9> upload/download globally is 2.3
[19:23:08] <A9> and most users only need to maintain between a 0.00 and a 0.30
[19:27:18] <A9> so to calculate the equivalent required ratio a normal user needs to get to survive, it's what would be 0.06 on a perfect 1:1 tracker.
[19:27:54] *** danohuiginn has joined #bittorrent
[19:28:42] <A9> I don't think thats too unreasonable
[19:29:16] <DreadWingKnight> if you only enforce ratios on the people who leave quickly after completion, and ignore anyone who at least TRIES to seed, things work a LOT better
[19:29:26] *** danohuiginn has left #bittorrent
[19:29:28] <A9> thats what we more or less do
[19:29:38] <A9> required ratio is variable with % seeding
[19:30:04] <A9> meaning users who upload their own content, or seed what they download long term, get it progressively easier
[19:51:16] <DreadWingKnight> for all practical purposes, you have no reason to ban 2.0 then
[20:00:54] <A9> Certainly don't
[20:01:08] <A9> I just wanted to get an understanding of why everyone else is going nuts
[20:04:49] <A9> DreadWingKnight: One more quetion
[20:05:05] <A9> I assume the rumor about intentional udp / tcp throttling was just that, a rumor as well?
[20:07:44] *** lucapost has joined #bittorrent
[20:07:53] <lucapost> hi all
[20:08:19] <DreadWingKnight> it was, uTorrent is aiming to play nice on connections, some of the artifacts are causing odd performance issues
[20:08:42] <DreadWingKnight> unless you have a sub-standard router, then the router just keels over and dies
[20:13:56] <lucapost> if a rename my test.txt files and createint new torrent file, I get that last bittorrent info hash is different from original, is it correct behavior?
[20:19:48] <The_8472> <THEONE> is there on you would recomment that works with AS3? <- doesn't bitlet run on flash?
[20:23:55] <Nolar> java applet afaik
[20:24:25] <DreadWingKnight> [3:16:22pm] <lucapost> if a rename my test.txt files and createint new torrent file, I get that last bittorrent info hash is different from original, is it correct behavior? <-- yes, filenames are one of the factors that are used to calculate the infohash
[20:24:34] <DreadWingKnight> see http://wiki.theory.org/BitTorrentSpecification
[20:25:19] <Nolar> java applet afaik
[20:25:22] <Nolar> oops
[20:26:26] *** goussx has quit IRC
[20:26:38] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent
[20:27:26] <A9> Nolar is correct.
[20:36:21] *** danohuiginn1 has joined #bittorrent
[20:38:01] *** lucapost has quit IRC
[20:38:16] *** danohuiginn1 has left #bittorrent
[20:56:17] *** neurodrone has quit IRC
[20:56:38] *** neurodrone has joined #bittorrent
[20:58:11] *** KyleK_ has joined #bittorrent
[21:02:17] *** _rafi_ has quit IRC
[21:04:28] *** edigaryev has quit IRC
[21:10:07] *** _rafi_ has joined #bittorrent
[21:26:01] *** n215 has joined #bittorrent
[21:26:12] *** n215 has joined #bittorrent
[21:46:28] *** danohuiginn has joined #bittorrent
[21:47:49] *** WhatMan has joined #bittorrent
[21:57:33] *** FarmerSHAD0W has joined #bittorrent
[22:02:39] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC
[22:05:10] *** FarmerSHAD0W has quit IRC
[22:21:02] *** n215 has quit IRC
[22:21:17] *** n215 has joined #bittorrent
[22:30:02] *** neurodrone has quit IRC
[22:42:21] *** KyleK_ has quit IRC
[22:51:34] *** The_8472 has quit IRC
[22:56:45] *** The_8472 has joined #bittorrent
[23:09:05] *** cyb2063 has quit IRC
[23:17:43] *** IRConan has joined #bittorrent
[23:27:10] *** _rafi_ has quit IRC





top