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[00:18:01] <TheSHAD0W> http://smallscreenscoop.com/john-mayer-playboy/34940/ - last quote
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[00:39:10] <DeHackEd> TheSHAD0W: sorry. was asleep
[00:39:28] <DeHackEd> DreadWingKnight: oh wait, that's you
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[03:09:48] <Switeck> http://www.walyou.com/blog/2009/12/24/han-solo-carbonite-desk/
[03:12:38] <The_8472> ooold, but awesome
[03:12:53] <DeHackEd> somehow that strikes me as morbid
[03:13:10] <The_8472> he's not dead, just sleeping!
[03:13:10] <Switeck> creepy morbid, yeah
[03:13:27] <DeHackEd> one would presume jabba would never have let him out if it weren't for... you know.
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[04:58:20] <loopy577> anyone know about core impact pro?
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[09:37:16] <Ox41464b> Its there any recommendation for seederServer software ?
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[10:22:19] <mpl> Ox41464b: what's a seederServer ?
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[10:36:44] <Ox41464b> Hi, anyone got recommendation for seeder torrent-client ? i feels like uTorrent failed me in seeding
[10:40:21] <DreadWingKnight> how do you think it's failing you?
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[16:26:29] <GabydeWilde_> DreadWingKnight: utorrent 2 is acting very weird for me also
[16:27:33] <GabydeWilde_> DreadWingKnight: Some one tried to download a torrent I was seeding, I had 8 kBit/s upload speed on that torrent and was the only seed. Switching on other torrents gave the usual 2 Mbit/s upload total.
[16:27:55] <GabydeWilde_> I asked others to download the same torrent, they all shared the data with 50-80 bkit/s
[16:28:28] <GabydeWilde_> eventually I loaded the torrent into Opera and it uploaded just fine at 30-80 kBit/s
[16:28:45] <GabydeWilde_> Opera's bittorent client is about as simple as it gets.
[16:30:19] <GabydeWilde_> If I try just send a file it goes with around 500 kb/s, this shouldn't be that different from using bittorent.
[16:30:50] <GabydeWilde_>  /end of story
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[16:36:18] <TheSHAD0W> Gaby: What's your ping rate to google.com?
[16:38:27] <GabydeWilde_> pretty good
[16:38:34] <TheSHAD0W> ...
[16:38:36] <GabydeWilde_> everything appears instantaniously
[16:38:47] <GabydeWilde_> I did speed tests
[16:38:48] <TheSHAD0W> 9_9
[16:38:54] <TheSHAD0W> Forget speed tests.
[16:38:54] <GabydeWilde_> also those in utorrent
[16:39:00] <TheSHAD0W> Are you using Windows?
[16:39:26] <TheSHAD0W> Well, you have to if you're using utorrent.
[16:39:33] <TheSHAD0W> Open a CMD window, type "ping google.com".
[16:39:46] <TheSHAD0W> Tell me what it says on the bottom for "average".
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[16:39:53] <GabydeWilde_> not known as an internal or external command :P
[16:40:01] <GabydeWilde_> not sure what that is about lol
[16:40:14] <TheSHAD0W> ...
[16:40:18] * TheSHAD0W facepalms
[16:40:25] <GabydeWilde_> any ideas?
[16:40:35] <GabydeWilde_> I'm not doing it wrong
[16:40:35] <TheSHAD0W> What version of Windows do you have?
[16:40:40] <GabydeWilde_> win xp
[16:40:51] <GabydeWilde_> with all the glue and patches on it :P
[16:41:02] <TheSHAD0W> Ping should be a standard command...
[16:41:26] <GabydeWilde_> orly? lol
[16:43:52] <GabydeWilde_> how to fix this?
[16:44:43] <mpl> heh
[16:46:15] <GabydeWilde_> typing out the full path for ping works
[16:46:22] <TheSHAD0W> Ahh.
[16:46:29] <TheSHAD0W> So what's the result for ping google.com ?
[16:46:36] <GabydeWilde_> 14 ms
[16:46:46] <GabydeWilde_> good enough?
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[16:46:51] <TheSHAD0W> Okay, so you're not on a high-latency link.
[16:46:58] <TheSHAD0W> Plenty good, lots better than me.
[16:47:02] <GabydeWilde_> other torrents work just fine
[16:47:06] <GabydeWilde_> with blazing speed
[16:47:48] <GabydeWilde_> the other guy lives in germany I'm in the netherlands
[16:48:07] <GabydeWilde_> I asked another dutch guy to help download
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[16:48:25] <GabydeWilde_> he had fine connectivity to germany while I was at 8 kBit/s
[16:48:58] <GabydeWilde_> it is clearly a problem with utorrent as Opera seeded the file just fine
[16:49:20] <GabydeWilde_> Opera doesn't have any configuration settings
[16:50:23] <GabydeWilde_> we can try it if you like, the video is on google video also so there is no copyright issue
[16:50:49] <GabydeWilde_> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:VZWB2H7EHAZWEOR3VREGGRAZG5ZNFXGN
[16:52:15] <GabydeWilde_> I'm now seedding it with both utorrent and Opera
[16:53:02] <GabydeWilde_> 2 peers connected just now, neither of them got any data from me
[16:53:37] <GabydeWilde_> are those you?
[16:54:51] <GabydeWilde_> nevermind then, we will just have to wait until it happens again.
[16:55:10] <TheSHAD0W> No, I'm not connecting.
[16:55:10] <GabydeWilde_> the lecture is really worth seeing ;)
[16:55:38] <GabydeWilde_> not trying or is it not working?
[16:55:48] <TheSHAD0W> Not trying.
[16:56:01] <GabydeWilde_> ah then it makes sense you are not connecting
[16:56:13] <GabydeWilde_> lulzz
[16:56:43] <TheSHAD0W> Okay...
[16:56:47] <TheSHAD0W> Guess I'm on the road.
[16:56:48] <TheSHAD0W> l8.
[16:57:15] <GabydeWilde_> if I upload it to archive org and add a webseed it will be treated like a normal seed right?
[16:58:00] <GabydeWilde_> another question,
[16:58:11] <GabydeWilde_> the folder name and path is in the torrent file right?
[16:58:22] <GabydeWilde_> can one just change that without breaking the torrent?
[16:59:06] <GabydeWilde_> say I have folder1/file1.avi and folder2/file2.avi
[16:59:31] <GabydeWilde_> can I make that folder1/file1.avi and folder1/file2.avi ?
[16:59:55] <GabydeWilde_> or will that cause unnessary panic on the networks?
[17:00:49] <GabydeWilde_> It would be nice to make a torrent with torrents inside that all download to a single folder you see ;)
[17:01:09] <GabydeWilde_> splitting the cloud would make it not worth it.
[17:02:19] <GabydeWilde_> we could change all our torrent files to download into categories like /conspiracy and /aliens and /lectures
[17:02:50] <GabydeWilde_> having one folder with everything in it is a pain in the ass
[17:04:09] <GabydeWilde_> it's a simple question guys?
[17:04:12] <GabydeWilde_> lol
[17:11:22] <cyb2063> it's only a question of how _you_ manage your torrents. simply organize them better yourself.
[17:13:29] <GabydeWilde_> simply put, can I change the folder name without breaking the torrent?
[17:13:50] <cyb2063> no
[17:14:16] <GabydeWilde_> ah thanks
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[17:39:30] <burris> this guy must have changed (or his player changed) the flac metadata after making this torrent because it's stuck on the first piece of every track...  idiot doesn't know what's wrong or realize there is a problem even though it's been days and nobody has completed his 350 meg torrent
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[20:30:47] <wuffi600> hi.
[20:32:54] <wuffi600> i'm offering the official debian-dvds as torrent. Is there a way to notify downloaders of old versions of the dvds (5.0.3) that there is a newer version (5.0.4). Is there a way to post a single-line message like "you are downloading an old version, 5.0.4 is available"?
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[20:43:57] <K`Tetch> no
[20:44:52] <K`Tetch> at best you could change the torrent file's comment to 'this is not the latest version, see site for updates'
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[20:45:55] <Andrius> or... just leave torrent be. torrent file isn't a good way to spread information
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[20:50:56] <alus> wuffi600: there's talk off adding the ability for a tracker to say things like that, and stop the torrent
[20:51:38] <alus> wuffi600: currently you could use the display-only (and only sometimes) "warning message"
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[20:51:48] <alus> wuffi600: http://wiki.theory.org/BitTorrentSpecification#Tracker_Response
[20:54:26] <The_8472> what's he talking about?
[20:57:36] <Andrius> <wuffi600> i'm offering the official debian-dvds as torrent. Is there a way to notify downloaders of old versions of the dvds (5.0.3) that there is a newer version (5.0.4). Is there a way to post a single-line message like "you are downloading an old version, 5.0.4 is available"?
[20:58:30] <The_8472> uhm. i don't see the necessity of that.
[20:58:45] <The_8472> a) we have RSS feeds b) distros have upgrade mechanisms
[20:59:59] <Andrius> or just remove the torrent so that there are no new downloaders
[21:00:15] <The_8472> what people have asked for is an automatic way to displace/replace torrents though. imo that should belong into RSS feeds
[21:00:54] <The_8472> yeah, it seems odd that people would manage to find a distro .torrent, isntall a torrent client and download it
[21:01:12] <The_8472> but won't be aware of how to update/obtain newer versions/whatever
[21:01:39] <The_8472> "help, i downloaded and installed ubuntu by accident" xD
[21:02:41] <Andrius> then we just need to "displace/replace" ubuntu downloads with windows
[21:03:08] <Andrius> "help, I installed ubuntu, but it looks just like my old xp!!1"
[21:03:56] <The_8472> lol
[21:04:54] <The_8472> seriously though, trackers are the wrong thing for that. they're peer sources... not torrent managers
[21:07:02] <wuffi600> alus: thanx a lot for the hint and link
[21:07:51] <Andrius> The_8472, MAFIAA would love a feature to stop/replace/whatever torrents remotely
[21:08:01] <The_8472> it might make sense to add some kind of "this torrent is associated with RSS feed at url X"-field into .torrent files so clients can automatically keep track of content updates for a torrent without looking for the feed first
[21:08:23] <The_8472> Andrius, users obviously would have to opt-in to feeds
[21:08:49] <The_8472> like [X] "i would like this feed to automatically replace my torrents with newer multi-file torrents as they arrive"
[21:09:09] <The_8472> or [X] "allow feed to remove .torrent when it becomes obsolete"
[21:10:38] <Andrius> [X] don't replace ubuntu downloads with windows
[21:10:50] <Andrius> yeah, that makes more sense
[21:12:43] <alus> The_8472: so you want two trackers? one for peers and stats, and the other for torrent control?
[21:14:44] <The_8472> alus, sortof. think of someone using an open tracker but managing their own RSS feed
[21:14:51] <alus> Andrius: this feature would not allow anyone but the tracker that made the .torrent to stop the torrent
[21:14:54] <The_8472> RSS feeds alread do torrent control... but only adding them
[21:15:00] <alus> hm
[21:15:06] <alus> but then each torrent has a feed
[21:15:15] <The_8472> not necessarily each torrent
[21:15:16] <alus> oh and xml is junk
[21:15:18] <alus> also rss
[21:15:36] <The_8472> you can just have 1 feed to control dozens of torrents
[21:15:38] <alus> let's use Twitter accounts
[21:15:42] <The_8472> rofl
[21:16:03] <The_8472> bittorrent clients could tweet too!
[21:16:14] <The_8472> "ohh. new file added. starting download!"
[21:16:33] <The_8472> "bleh. peer 217.0.0.13 sent a bad piece. i don't like him"
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[21:17:39] <The_8472> anyway, trackers are the wrong point for torrent control.
[21:18:29] <The_8472> a) open trackers b) multi-tracker torrents c) DHT-only (should they ever become widespread) ....
[21:18:45] <The_8472> people are already using RSS to add torrents in an automated fashion
[21:19:04] <The_8472> using it to remove old torrents that are replaced by batch torrents or newer versions makes sense, imo
[21:19:05] <Andrius> <The_8472> bittorrent clients could tweet too! < this would be awesome
[21:21:09] * The_8472 binds the log console to a twitter plugin
[21:21:32] <The_8472> 10+ messages per second :]
[21:21:59] <Andrius> let's make this default in all common bt clients
[21:22:09] <Andrius> twitter admins will love it
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[21:35:18] <alus> hhaha
[21:35:34] <alus> can you imagine all the tweets about people downloading porn
[21:35:51] <Andrius> lol
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[21:51:19] <charles> we could do tracker announces and peer discovery via twitter
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[21:57:45] <Andrius> charles, normal connections could also be moved to twitter for consistency
[22:00:07] <charles> you know, we could send piece data across in base64 and lower the maximum request size from 16K to 140 bytes...
[22:00:25] <The_8472> makes perfect sense if you ask me
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[22:01:53] <Andrius> welcome to #TwitTorrent
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[22:17:47] <alus> certainly removes the need for port mapping
[22:17:58] <alus> or even being online to seed
[22:19:52] <Switeck> someone asked this earlier:  <mysoogals>	will there be seeking in video ut 2.1 ?
[22:20:53] <alus> technically we support it, but the DivX web player does not, or maybe it does and just crashes
[22:21:09] <alus> if you're streaming using VLC or something it does seek
[22:23:32] <Switeck> I've heard uTorrent only supports a couple video players in this streaming mode...gotta have the right adware present?
[22:24:33] <alus> don't be a jerk Switeck
[22:24:47] <alus> it support any player that can stream the file
[22:24:54] <alus> Windows Media Player for example can not stream avi
[22:25:04] <Switeck> which means something is being "reported back"?
[22:25:17] <alus> hm?
[22:25:28] <Switeck> No offense but "reporting back" sounds more than vaguely like adware to me.
[22:25:45] <alus> what says "reported back"?
[22:25:48] <alus> I didn't say that
[22:26:52] <Switeck> I've been told Falcon and/or BT is required.
[22:26:58] <Switeck> BT DNA I mean
[22:27:11] <alus> not true, those are just features which are also in 2.1
[22:27:15] <Switeck> And torrent swarm stats are gathered.
[22:27:35] <alus> that's not true.
[22:27:47] <Switeck> Which are used as the criteria to decide whether a torrent should be allowed to stream.
[22:28:05] <alus> internal to the client, it uses scrape info and rarity info and such, yes
[22:28:10] <alus> but this is not set to BT Inc
[22:28:15] <alus> *sent
[22:28:18] <Switeck> who is it sent to?
[22:28:24] <alus> it's not sent anywhere
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[22:29:24] <Switeck> If I've got this viewpoint, you can bet others do to. Someone needs to clear up what's really happening then. :P
[22:30:00] <alus> where did you read the misleading information?
[22:31:54] <Switeck> Just here and -dev irc channel
[22:32:05] <alus> well not many people read that then
[22:32:25] <alus> but for everyone that did, they can read where I just said it's not true
[22:32:41] <Switeck> I am not convinced that's the only places the info is disseminated to.
[22:34:03] <alus> ok.
[22:34:21] <alus> to anyone disseminating information: please continue to do so, with the latest information
[22:34:30] <alus> all set?
[22:38:20] <TheSHAD0W> Uh.
[22:38:52] <TheSHAD0W> There's nothing wrong with maintaining a tracker just in order to be able to post warning and failure messages to downloaders.
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[22:55:39] <alus> TheSHAD0W: and leaving out any peer list behaviour?
[22:56:18] <TheSHAD0W> I mean instead of relying on DHT or open trackers.
[22:56:43] <TheSHAD0W> If you are running a tracker, might as well share peers too.
[22:56:52] <alus> unless it's too much load
[22:57:13] * TheSHAD0W shrugs
[22:57:25] <TheSHAD0W> Takes a hell of a lot of peers to overload a tracker, especially now.
[22:57:35] <alus> "now"?
[22:57:56] <TheSHAD0W> Now that there are binary coded trackers out there.
[22:57:58] <TheSHAD0W> Good ones.
[22:58:06] <alus> oic
[22:58:11] <alus> yeah, opentracker is fast
[22:58:40] <alus> why else might you not want to return peer lists...
[22:58:42] <alus> bandwidth?
[22:58:51] <alus> laws?
[22:59:00] <alus> fear of bits?
[22:59:29] <TheSHAD0W> If you're running w4r3z, you're probably not going to need to send messages to peers.
[23:00:03] <alus> oh sure you will
[23:00:08] <alus> "this torrent is fake"
[23:00:19] <K`Tetch> 'people have got letters on this'
[23:00:19] <TheSHAD0W> Bandwidth...  With opentracker you could easily handle a million peers on a colo box.
[23:00:39] <alus> opentracker does not reduce bandwidth constraints
[23:01:03] <TheSHAD0W> If you're running w4r3z on BT, you're stupid anyway, DHT or not.
[23:01:21] <TheSHAD0W> I've been toying with writing a good darknet-based file sharing system.
[23:01:43] <alus> what is your security model?
[23:01:53] <TheSHAD0W> Probably just base it on i2p.
[23:02:05] <alus> ouch
[23:02:17] <alus> how about OneSwarm?
[23:02:39] <TheSHAD0W> i2p is about as efficient as you can get and not be able to trace data back to its source.
[23:02:56] <alus> not according to the OneSwarm guys
[23:02:58] <TheSHAD0W> The trick is *not* to base it on BitTorrent.
[23:03:15] <alus> i2p has many relays.
[23:03:23] <alus> the trick is to reduce the number of relays
[23:03:35] <TheSHAD0W> i2p has a configurable relay setup, from what I hear.
[23:03:53] <alus> hm.
[23:04:21] <TheSHAD0W> This wouldn't be a torrenting system, it would be more like overnet.
[23:07:07] <alus> yeah that went well
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[23:30:04] <The_8472> <TheSHAD0W> There's nothing wrong with maintaining a tracker just in order to be able to post warning and failure messages to downloaders. <- peer source, not torrent source
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[23:31:49] <alus> eh. peers are torrent sources
[23:33:57] <The_8472> only in a non-controlling manner
[23:34:18] <The_8472> since there are many
[23:34:35] <The_8472> their name is legion, for they are many
[23:35:37] <alus> to really do the swarm control properly, the public key would need to be in the info dict
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[23:36:02] <alus> then peers could even re-broadcast the swarm control messages, and everyone could verify it with the pk they have
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[23:37:46] <The_8472> yeah, the thing is that we don't need (or want) swarm control
[23:37:56] <The_8472> i would suggest doing swarm advice via RSS
[23:38:10] <alus> actually, the feature was specifically requested by a very large tracker+site operator
[23:38:10] <The_8472> which can be done by 3rd parties... like torrent aggregators or whatever
[23:38:16] <The_8472> you just have to trust the feed source
[23:38:50] <alus> rss has no control messages though.
[23:39:07] <alus> also see: rss sucks, xml sucks
[23:39:07] <The_8472> you can just add news "torrent obsolte"
[23:39:19] <The_8472> it's there, why not use it?
[23:39:33] <alus> because this feature is not there
[23:39:45] <The_8472> yes, but it fits in
[23:40:21] <The_8472> the structural difference between a "torrent added", "torrent removed" and "torrent X superseds torrent Y" shouldn't be too great
[23:41:18] <alus> well, consider a tracker site like uh...
[23:41:22] <alus> mininova used to be
[23:41:46] <The_8472> yes, ok?
[23:41:47] <alus> users search, find random torrents they are interested in (where now there is nothing of interest), and download them
[23:41:59] <alus> each one would have to come with an rss feed
[23:42:05] <The_8472> no
[23:42:11] <alus> or there would be one very active feed for all of mininova
[23:42:16] <The_8472> you don't have to bind each torrent to a feed
[23:42:42] <The_8472> a) not all torrents need updates/are episodic/batchable content
[23:42:58] <alus> who said anything about episodic/batchable content?
[23:43:16] <alus> I'm only considering the use case of "this torrent is fake/bad/malware/made of fail"
[23:43:17] <The_8472> uhm, i would say that's the most common use case for such feeds
[23:43:38] <alus> see but you're lumping this feature in to feeds
[23:43:44] <alus> I'm talking about all torrents
[23:44:20] <The_8472> well, that's what comments are good for. if we're talking mininova then you have to consider that they're not even controlling the tracker running the torrents
[23:44:29] <The_8472> let alone the .torrent generation
[23:44:32] <alus> well, bad example then
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[23:44:59] <alus> most other sites do run the tracker if they aren't just a glorified file specific search engine
[23:45:34] <The_8472> "most" being private trackers. public torrents have torrent indexing and trackers separated these days
[23:45:36] <alus> comments are only useful if you read them after they are posted
[23:45:54] <alus> swarm control is for people already downloading
[23:46:05] <alus> obviously if the site operator knows the torrent is bunk, they can just remove it
[23:46:33] <alus> they could also stop tracking it, but then users think the download has just stalled
[23:46:53] <The_8472> in that case they can have a feed of only fake torrents
[23:47:08] <The_8472> kinda like a dns blacklist, just for torrents
[23:47:37] <alus> that would need to be in the infodict then
[23:47:43] <The_8472> no
[23:47:53] <The_8472> you just add it to your client
[23:47:58] <alus> oh
[23:48:05] <alus> well no one is going to do that
[23:48:11] <The_8472> torrentclearinghouse.com/rss or something like that
[23:48:25] <The_8472> or indexing sites could have that, whatever
[23:48:26] <alus> I guess it doesn't need to be in the infodict. you have to trust the place you got the .torrent from
[23:48:33] <The_8472> yeah
[23:49:28] <The_8472> i mean for removing bad torrents you don't need many feeds
[23:49:56] <The_8472> it's batch/updateable content which has more widespread applications imo
[23:50:13] <alus> but that's new feature territory
[23:50:21] <alus> I'm trying to solve an existing problem with BT
[23:51:38] <The_8472> well, it has been a requested feature
[23:51:51] <The_8472> as for fake torrents... i haven't encountered one in months
[23:51:51] <Switeck> anyone working on udp trackers? :P
[23:52:06] <DeHackEd> pfft. no
[23:52:38] <alus> Switeck: we came up with UDP tracker v2 the other week. we're still working on writing the spec
[23:52:49] <alus> it's dirt simple though
[23:52:59] <DeHackEd> oh good
[23:53:25] <Switeck> simple is good
[23:54:16] <Switeck> will it support IPv6 or just packed IPv4 (6 bytes each)?
[23:54:34] <alus> both
[23:54:36] <DeHackEd> both, obviously
[23:54:44] <alus> it will support everything the TCP tracker protocol does
[23:54:59] <Switeck> ah, so it's almost like an overlay of the tcp trackers
[23:55:07] <DeHackEd> which is why udpv1 blows
[23:55:08] <alus> er
[23:55:18] <alus> I wouldn't call it an overlay, no
[23:55:23] <alus> it's a transport swap
[23:55:50] <alus> basically: do everything you're doing over TCP, except use UDP. but there's a new step you have to do first to "connect", where we also put crypto
[23:56:16] <alus> it's HTTP over UDP, though. the payloads look identical
[23:56:17] <Switeck> ooh! so it's potentially as good as HTTPS for security?
[23:56:26] <alus> someone should write an apache plugin, so you can use existing PHP trackers
[23:56:27] <Switeck> (or better)
[23:56:40] <The_8472> .... http over udp? seriously
[23:56:45] <alus> yeah, it's as good as HTTPS
[23:56:51] <DeHackEd> uhhh....
[23:57:00] <The_8472> that's shit if you ask me
[23:57:22] <The_8472> all the disadvantages of http and none of the advantages
[23:57:26] <alus> The_8472: yes. that's by far the easiest way to keep things as flexible as they are now
[23:57:43] <DeHackEd> If the protocol was bencode in a UDP packet maybe I'd be interested...
[23:57:47] <The_8472> no, far from it
[23:58:00] <Switeck> fewer round trips than TCP though?
[23:58:01] <The_8472> http is easy because everyone has libs for it
[23:58:08] <alus> The_8472: we of course came up with two other from-scratch formats for request/response, and realized they're all new and not significantly better in any network related way
[23:58:23] <alus> Switeck: same as HTTP, fewer than HTTPS
[23:58:42] <DeHackEd> syn-synack?
[23:58:49] <alus> The_8472: actually, no one is using libs for HTTP except transmission, and charles agreed this would be do-able
[23:59:02] <alus> DeHackEd: ish
[23:59:03] <DeHackEd> python clients use urllib
[23:59:10] <alus> no, it uses twisted web
[23:59:19] <The_8472> we use the java runtime for example
[23:59:21] <alus> and it's not maintained :P
[23:59:34] <alus> you use the http lib in java?
[23:59:50] <DeHackEd> why not? java's library is actually pretty thorough.





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