[00:02:23] <Miller`> kjetilho: it was a long time ago, and was exactly when i stopped using the lists, but yes. My bittorrent client refused to accept anything coming from my router. I was very confused...
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[00:03:19] <ivan__> hey quick question, does your upload speed affect your download speed?
[00:03:55] <Miller`> ivan__: yes. The more you upload, the more you'll be able to download (roughly)
[00:04:01] <Miller`> s/more/faster/g
[00:04:25] <ivan__> oh lol so i cant just dl like 500k/s and not upload at all :P
[00:05:15] <Miller`> ivan__: Only if you're on a torrent with a LOT of seeders that have good connections. I've been trying to seed some presentations from ShmooCon for a while, and there's so many seeders i'm barely uploading =/
[00:05:42] <Miller`> and it's not very nice to everyone else to only download...
[00:06:18] <ivan__> did they do that so everyone has to contribute or something?
[00:08:41] <t0nic> DWKnight: re:stupidity:  to be fair peerblock doesn't WRITE the lists, and you can turn them on/off or customize them
[00:09:50] <DWKnight> t0nic: they are still not really helping things by recommending the bluetack retard-written lists
[00:10:21] <t0nic> DWKnight: ok.  are there lists you prefer (it sounds like you don't use them at all, but nonetheless)
[00:10:22] <DWKnight> ivan__: each swarm is different and there is an upper limit
[00:10:40] <DWKnight> t0nic: stripped down to CONFIRMED bad-data senders
[00:10:42] <DWKnight> if any
[00:11:54] <ivan__> oh alright thanks. so like 15k/s upload is usually enough to get a good download?
[00:11:55] <The_8472> <Miller`> and it's not very nice to everyone else to only download... <- it's impossible. if nobody uploads nobody can download, quite simple
[00:12:03] <The_8472> bandwidth has to come from somewhere
[00:12:19] <DWKnight> ivan__: depends on your connection
[00:12:21] <The_8472> despite what your parents told you, the bandwidth-fairy is a lie
[00:12:40] <t0nic> stop me if i'm off topic, but how would this achieve protection from those who want to know what files I'm recieving/sending?
[00:12:56] <t0nic> I can't keep up with all the new mpaa ips etc.
[00:13:13] <semaphore> i really doubt peer block would stop the mpaa
[00:13:32] <DWKnight> considering the MPAA has gone after networked printers
[00:13:38] <t0nic> semaphore: but isn't the idea that if there are known bad ips, you can at least stop those?
[00:13:47] <t0nic> obviously not all or new/changing ones
[00:14:11] <semaphore> they can still ask the tracker how much you have, and can still send you a dcma takedown/get your internet service canceled
[00:14:13] <t0nic> so i should just build my own list one ip at a time?
[00:14:13] <DWKnight> yes
[00:14:19] <semaphore> unless i'm grossly mistaken
[00:14:31] <DWKnight> devices that are physically incapable of participating in p2p
[00:14:37] <DWKnight> and they've still gone after them
[00:14:46] <DWKnight> http://dmca.cs.washington.edu/
[00:15:24] <t0nic> semaphore: so they don't need to send or recieve any packets to ME personally to get my ip?
[00:15:25] <t0nic> ok
[00:15:39] <semaphore> t0nic: right
[00:16:12] <burris> best way is to be a good boy and download stuff that people want you to download
[00:16:38] <t0nic> burris: but I don't have a penis
[00:17:15] <t0nic> hmm... so they'd know I have the tracker on a running client, which is enough to buffalo my isp into bothering me
[00:17:33] <K`Tetch> the blocklists don't 'protect' you at all
[00:17:35] <DWKnight> yup
[00:17:38] <DWKnight> and even then
[00:17:46] <DWKnight> without running any p2p software
[00:17:52] <K`Tetch> all they DO do is tend to steer you TOWARDS the people you're trying to avoid, by blocking mostly people you don't want to block
[00:17:55] <DWKnight> they still buffalo ISPs into giving info
[00:18:01] <K`Tetch> and lengthening your time on the torrent
[00:18:29] <K`Tetch> in fact, they can even use your blocklist usage as proof of 'intent'
[00:19:46] <t0nic> BUT they'd actually have to be doing that, correct?
[00:20:01] <K`Tetch> have to be doing what?
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[00:20:03] <t0nic> i.e. not just seeing who they're interacting with but who is on the tracker only
[00:20:15] <t0nic> I guess they probably are doing that...
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[00:20:28] <K`Tetch> they can use one peer on the lists, one not on the lists, and see who they can not connect to with the ip on the list
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[00:21:26] <t0nic> hmmm... that is bad
[00:21:32] <K`Tetch> no, not really
[00:21:42] <K`Tetch> blocklists are just mostly a con-job
[00:21:48] <t0nic> K`Tetch: depends on your perspective
[00:21:56] <t0nic> K`Tetch: how so?
[00:22:33] <K`Tetch> they're a con, in that they claim to 'protect you' from something rare, and they are unable to actually provide any protection
[00:23:08] <K`Tetch> I have had growing suspicions over hte last year or two, that bluetack (the 'big' list provider) is actually part of an antip2p group, like UK-FACT
[00:24:51] <t0nic> so if someone were dl'ing stuff and wanted to keep a low profile, yall's opinion is "hide in plain sight" without the blocker, rather than single yourself out with it
[00:25:04] <t0nic> that makes sense I suppose
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[01:34:46] <a_duck> question: do other clients discriminate based on your advertized upload speed or your actual upload speed? and how so?
[01:34:52] <a_duck> I've always wondered this
[01:35:23] <kjetilho> you don't advertise your upload speed
[01:35:36] <a_duck> okay
[01:35:37] <kjetilho> the clients will prefer peers who send them data quickly
[01:35:45] <a_duck> ah
[01:36:13] <a_duck> so on a well seeded torrent it probably won't matter anyway
[01:36:38] <DWKnight> there are a lot of factors that determine a given peer's speeds on a given torrent
[01:37:07] <a_duck> well this torrent is just saturated with 100% peers, so it shouldn't matter what I upload at
[01:37:54] <DWKnight> piece overall availability is one of the factors
[01:38:07] <DWKnight> if you're the only downloader and there are enough high-speed seeds to flood you
[01:38:10] <DWKnight> you'll get flooded
[01:39:00] <DWKnight> as more downloaders join, factors change
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[04:05:49] <Switeck> I don't know for sure...so I'm asking here. Glasnost seems to "pass" numerous people on clearly hostile ISPs - Bell ADSL Canada, Rogers Cable Canada, and British Telecom UK to name a few. Could it be those ISPs are out foxing Glasnost's testing methods?
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[04:09:29] <burris> why is it that cdparanoia will spend hours on a sector and not get it, then you start it again saying "just go ahead after 20 retries" it gets the bad sector on the first shot?
[04:10:02] <TheSHAD0W> Dust.
[04:10:18] <burris> you're probably right, though this cd is ten years old
[04:10:34] <burris> and it's a crappy "laquer only" top with a sticky label covering the whole thing
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[04:11:49] <burris> I'm supposed to be dusting them off / giving them a good polish before ripping
[04:12:22] <Switeck> the dust may be in the drive
[04:12:33] <Switeck> compressed air ftw? :P
[04:12:45] <burris> you could be right too...  I probably got a duster around here somewhere
[04:13:20] <burris> it's atapi errors that cdparanoia is reporting
[04:13:31] <TheSHAD0W> ...
[04:14:33] <TheSHAD0W> That may not be a good thing.
[04:19:13] <Switeck> poor quality, incompatible, or dying drive? :(
[04:19:27] <TheSHAD0W> The latter, perhaps.
[04:19:41] <TheSHAD0W> Not sure, try googling the exact error.
[04:21:59] <burris> dunno, same deal on an earlier sector on an earlier run, went past it that time, sometimes when the drives heat up they don't perform as well
[04:22:17] <burris> I could try a different drive
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[04:36:26] <KindOne> utorrent is a better client
[04:39:13] <Switeck> better for what?
[04:39:50] <KindOne> torrenting
[05:03:27] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928536
[05:07:20] <TheSHAD0W> Hey, new episode of Chud!
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[19:11:57] <Switeck> ...lost in translation:  http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=67504
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[19:58:07] <burris> uTorrent:  now with Shake and Distribute!  No MSG!
[19:58:28] <The_8472> oO
[19:59:38] <burris> getting a clean rip of a cd is tricky
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[20:05:35] <The_8472> hrrm, there are tools for that
[20:06:12] <burris> I'm using cdparanoia, it would be nice to have a tool that lets me do a merge between two rips of the same track
[20:09:30] <burris> the rip performance of my drive varies quite a bit, seems that it starts to lose when it spins down, at that point it works best to eject and reinsert then continue
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[20:10:17] <The_8472> try exact audio copy, it can do multiple passes if a sector fails
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[22:28:18] <ivan__> hey i was wondering, what does "verify local data" on my bittorrent client do
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[22:32:56] <mpl> ivan__: probably check the hashes of the pieces you have.
[22:33:30] <Switeck> too much hostile software now is corrupting torrent downloads. :'(
[22:35:51] <swolchok> Switeck: any measurements on that?
[22:35:58] <mpl> Switeck: really? I don't seem to have that problem.
[22:36:16] <Switeck> Media players auto-changing MP3 tags for instance
[22:36:27] <swolchok> that's not hostile...
[22:36:34] <Switeck> it sure is to the torrent swarm!
[22:36:44] <swolchok> it's not *malicious*
[22:36:59] <Switeck> corrupts the last piece, which is among the most important to making the torrent work.
[22:37:09] <Switeck> I beg to differ
[22:37:20] <Switeck> some of these are "BRANDING" their name onto everything
[22:38:44] <mpl> Switeck: yes, but not with the aim of purposely hurting the swarm, right?
[22:39:08] <mpl> and you could use a player that doesn't suck ;)
[22:39:12] <Switeck> I wouldn't know...
[22:39:23] <Switeck> Oh I don't use those players, just saying some are malicious
[22:40:55] <Switeck> Too much commercial software that's overstepping their bounds, such as antivirus software and indexers locking out access (even read-only) to files they're scanning.
[22:41:57] <mpl> yeah that's bad. I'd hate that happening on my machines.
[22:42:27] <Switeck> or defrag always restarting because some app is writing files "somewhere" on the hdd.
[22:42:36] <mpl> haha
[22:43:19] <Switeck> newer versions of windows tend to be worse in that regard...
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[23:03:53] <The_8472> <Switeck> Too much commercial software that's overstepping their bounds, such as antivirus software and indexers locking out access (even read-only) to files they're scanning. <- that's insane. most OSes provide ways to read files or at least their blocks, even if they're in use
[23:06:08] <DWKnight> unfortunately, indexing apps still lock
[23:06:26] <chelz> what about google desktop?
[23:08:06] <DWKnight> first one I look for
[23:08:22] <DWKnight> with roxio and nero's media indexers being 2 and 3
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[23:09:41] <Switeck> The_8472, that's why I call them "hostile"
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[23:19:21] <The_8472> apply hanlon's razor
[23:21:29] <DWKnight> I think we'd rather apply a nano-dismantler round to the people that thought the locking was a good idea
[23:23:09] <Switeck> With Av software potentially tripping up on other AV software's virus library files...I'm not sure Hanlon's Razor applies
[23:27:19] <Switeck> marking their cometition as 'hostile' isn't entirely due to stupidity...
[23:31:23] <Switeck> considering bugs in commercial software often go unpatched until complaints reach "pitchforks and torches", I'd say depraved indifference at least. >:(
[23:35:10] <chelz> as soon as people stop buying/using their software over some issue(s), i'm sure they'll be up for changing
[23:36:37] <Switeck> Intel wireless drivers, nvidia's MB firewall software...
[23:37:07] <DWKnight> NOD32
[23:37:27] <Switeck> Zone Alarm
[23:43:37] <GTHK> Kaspersky.
[23:43:58] <Switeck> Most people are blissfully unaware of how *BAD* this software is.
[23:44:56] <mpl> Switeck: most people are blissfully unaware of a lot of bad things :)
[23:46:14] <Switeck> We run across "fans" of the just-mentioned software...and trying to troubleshoot their problems becomes painful quick. :(
[23:47:02] <DWKnight> even when we beat them with proof of how crap the software is
[23:49:06] <GTHK> nForce 2 drivers (data corruption!...).
[23:50:13] <DWKnight> as people who troubleshoot this junk every day, we can cite quite long lists of problem packages
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