[01:49:47] *** Mazon has quit IRC
[01:50:08] *** Mazon has joined #BitTorrent
[01:56:15] *** ryanprior has joined #bittorrent
[02:30:03] *** GTHKn is now known as GTHK
[02:47:54] *** ryanprior has quit IRC
[02:48:39] *** skampler has joined #bittorrent
[02:49:21] <skampler> hi, what exactly is info_hash a hash of
[02:49:36] <skampler> is it, <beginning of info> to <end of info> ?
[02:51:30] <skampler> i mean beginning of value of info
[02:51:42] <alus> yes. it is a sha1 of the bencoded info dictionary
[02:51:52] <skampler> thanks
[03:08:05] *** mxs has quit IRC
[03:08:50] *** mxs has joined #bittorrent
[03:27:41] *** GTHKn has joined #bittorrent
[03:28:34] *** GTHK has quit IRC
[03:54:12] *** _rafi2_ has quit IRC
[04:04:57] *** The_8472 has quit IRC
[04:05:18] *** wadim has joined #bittorrent
[04:09:54] *** r3wj has quit IRC
[04:11:29] *** rich_ has joined #bittorrent
[04:11:40] *** rich_ is now known as r2wj
[04:13:56] *** wadim has quit IRC
[04:14:28] *** The_8472 has joined #bittorrent
[04:22:21] *** The_8472 is now known as wadim
[04:22:37] *** wadim is now known as The_8473
[04:25:24] *** The_8473 is now known as The_8472
[05:08:56] *** goussx_ has joined #bittorrent
[05:25:59] *** goussx has quit IRC
[05:25:59] *** goussx_ is now known as goussx
[05:38:26] *** kwinz2 has quit IRC
[05:41:12] *** init0 has joined #bittorrent
[05:54:28] *** init0_ has quit IRC
[06:42:39] *** KyleK_ has joined #bittorrent
[06:43:41] *** rrr has quit IRC
[06:48:55] *** ProperNoun has joined #bittorrent
[06:55:42] *** PN has quit IRC
[06:57:01] *** GTHKn has quit IRC
[07:06:13] *** KyleK_ has quit IRC
[07:11:01] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC
[07:36:38] *** edigaryev has joined #bittorrent
[07:39:10] <burris> how to generate an infohash should be a prominent FAQ link somewhere on BT.org
[07:40:02] <burris> or maybe people could use google
[07:40:54] <deltab> better yet, why do all these people want to get hashes?
[07:41:09] <burris> who doesn't like hash?
[07:49:29] *** _rafi_ has joined #bittorrent
[08:28:33] *** Andrius has joined #bittorrent
[09:01:47] <alus> hopefully torrent files will die, and all people will have is the hash in a magnet URI
[09:19:00] <TheSHAD0W> ...
[09:19:44] <TheSHAD0W> alus: Torrent files can't die *completely*; the initial seed needs it.  And every client will probably hold a copy, at least for a while.
[09:27:29] <alus> TheSHAD0W: but they can be as much in the background as every other part of the protocol
[09:27:38] <alus> TheSHAD0W: so a user never sees one
[09:27:52] <alus> TheSHAD0W: or a tracker for that matter
[09:28:06] <alus> TheSHAD0W: even the initial seeder could be unaware of it
[09:28:56] <alus> what good are the hashes if no one has the file? and if you have the file you have the hashes too.
[09:29:09] <alus> all we need to pass around is a unique identifier
[09:29:15] <alus> and the shorter, the better
[09:32:38] *** burris has quit IRC
[09:32:49] <_rafi_> I tried to use those magnet links, and missed the lack of info, like (for example) file size BEFORE I start the download.
[09:35:15] <alus> there is an "xl" parameter for magnet links
[09:35:26] <alus> "eXact Length"
[09:35:41] <alus> uT could pretty easily support that..
[09:36:36] <kjetilho> what's the point?
[09:36:56] <kjetilho> you could just URI encode the complete torrent file, too :-p
[09:37:26] <alus> indeed.
[09:37:28] <_rafi_> .. so why don't you support that ?
[09:37:39] <alus> laziness. not required for the magnet links to function
[09:37:49] <alus> it's just candy
[09:38:20] <kjetilho> the only thing annoying me about torrent files is that Merkle Trees didn't happen
[09:38:59] <alus> why does that annoy you?
[09:39:34] <kjetilho> it makes the torrent file large, which in turn means people feel they must use large piece sizes
[09:40:14] <alus> well, magnet links remove that desire
[09:40:23] <alus> it's a hash tree, with two levels :)
[09:40:26] <kjetilho> not really
[09:40:30] <alus> why not?
[09:43:36] <_rafi_>  <alus> laziness. not required for the magnet links to function ==> if it is a simple task, implemeting this, will promote the use of those links with uT.
[09:45:03] <alus> _rafi_: how much?
[09:45:39] <_rafi_> 5
[09:45:44] <_rafi_> 5% ...:P
[09:46:02] <_rafi_> (I'll use it... )
[09:46:34] <alus> well if the tracker site you're using doesn't, it won't do you much good...
[09:48:00] <alus> chicken and egg, a bit
[09:48:31] <_rafi_> I was under the implression that implementing it is quicker  then talking about it... even if it might function only on some trackers
[09:48:39] <_rafi_> *impression
[09:49:49] <alus> maybe it was.
[09:49:57] <alus> but here we talked about it instead
[09:50:38] *** ryanprior has joined #bittorrent
[09:51:20] <_rafi_> I guess it is cause of your laziness...;)
[09:51:44] <_rafi_> ... + it's Sunday...
[10:23:39] *** rrr has joined #bittorrent
[11:51:24] *** ryanprior has quit IRC
[12:07:22] *** cyb2063 has joined #bittorrent
[12:40:08] *** goussx has quit IRC
[12:41:16] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent
[13:04:09] *** Switeck has joined #bittorrent
[13:05:07] *** sobczyk has quit IRC
[13:58:53] *** quodt has joined #bittorrent
[14:00:16] <quodt> hi, is there a nice python library to create torrents?
[14:00:44] <quodt> no download, just creating the files
[14:01:04] <quodt> as slim as possible
[14:03:37] <Switeck> You could possibly take the old BitTorrent v5 and hack that part out.
[14:03:49] <Switeck> assuming its source code is available...
[14:06:28] <DeHackEd> there's several python clients (bittorrent v5 I believe is one such) with a standalone torrent creator. bittornado is another.
[14:13:10] <quodt> hm, both are very big packages
[14:13:30] <quodt> bittorrent source is available
[14:19:12] <DeHackEd> the bittornado package is 185k, and the reason it's "so big" is it's a full flegded client. keep the bits you need.
[14:20:05] <DeHackEd> oops, gotta run
[14:52:12] *** ivan` has quit IRC
[14:54:53] *** ivan` has joined #bittorrent
[16:07:16] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent
[16:08:47] *** rrr has quit IRC
[16:16:00] *** Andrius has quit IRC
[16:18:22] *** rrr has joined #bittorrent
[16:21:00] <charles> quodt: you might want to ask andar, who's lurking.  iirc he wrote a set of python tools for working with .torrent files
[16:21:12] <charles> andar: ^ ?
[16:21:45] <swolchok> libtorrent?
[16:22:59] <charles> no, libtorrent is a bittorrent engine, not in python, not by andar
[16:25:44] <quodt> mm, i just realized i will put more functionality into my app so i need lib which can download as well
[16:26:22] <quodt> just for creating .torrent files i found the package pymktorrent on pypi
[16:26:41] <quodt> but i guess the project is dead
[16:26:54] <swolchok> there are python bindings for libtorrent
[16:41:22] <quodt> ok, thanks guys, i'll try to get bindings  for libtorrent
[16:45:45] <The_8472> odd, i don't get why someone would want the size info in the in the magnet. you can easily fetch the .torrent and then display it, before creating the files
[16:45:54] <The_8472> you could even have some website do it...
[16:46:19] <The_8472> just needs some infodump-tool for magnets
[16:46:51] <The_8472> imo even adding tracker URLs to magnets is overkill, TEX is a better choice
[16:46:55] <The_8472> keeps them shorter
[16:47:07] <The_8472> adding frills just makes them more and more like .torrents
[16:52:38] <charles> quodt: ah, found it
[16:52:41] <charles> quodt: http://code.google.com/p/torrentutils/
[16:53:35] <charles> written in python by Deluge's main dev.  summary: "A collection of utilities to create, modify, view and verify torrent metadata files"
[16:55:09] <quodt> charles: i have seen this project as well but i'm not sure if this project is still in progress
[16:55:27] <quodt> charles: do you have expirience with torrentutils?
[16:55:45] <quodt> and unfortunately the project is also not listed on pypi
[16:55:53] <charles> other than reading its code a month ago, no
[16:56:16] <charles> and I was just doing that while learning python
[16:56:21] <charles> andar would be a much better source
[16:56:35] <The_8472> <quodt> charles: i have seen this project as well but i'm not sure if this project is still in progress <- there isn't much to be "in progress" about with basic tools
[16:56:57] <The_8472> most torrent untils from 5 years ago probably still work. requireing minor modifications at most
[16:56:59] <quodt> that's true
[16:58:35] <quodt> but, as i mentioned before, i need a more powerful library because the specification has changed
[16:59:29] <quodt> so now i have to leech the files as well
[17:04:08] *** Switeck has quit IRC
[17:09:30] <swolchok> The_8472: fetching like that is slow
[17:25:20] <The_8472> yes, and? you'd want to do it anyway... since you don't have all the statistics you get with a .torrent anyway
[17:25:37] <The_8472> number of files, filenames, file size, piece size, scrape, ...
[17:26:05] <The_8472> and you could have a website doing it for you with a crawler
[17:26:18] <The_8472> you add the magnet... the website fetches additional info after some time
[17:26:27] <The_8472> and caches it
[17:26:28] <swolchok> user needs to do it when he decides to download. latency is acceptable for that, but having a website do it seems resource intensive
[17:27:09] <swolchok> interesting idea though
[17:29:48] <The_8472> better than inflating the magnets
[17:48:08] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.themillions.com/2010/01/confessions-of-a-book-pirate.html
[17:50:43] <skampler> so how many people in here are writing BT clients ? :)
[17:56:27] <mpl> sporadically.
[18:03:33] <The_8472> something between 0 and 50
[18:14:02] *** ajaya has joined #bittorrent
[18:18:35] *** rrr has quit IRC
[18:26:07] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=121171
[18:27:01] *** rrr has joined #bittorrent
[18:30:50] <The_8472> they're forgetting one point... consumers aren't going to like consumption based billing. in fact we had that for ages before flatrates arrived... and people changed in droves
[18:31:08] <The_8472> you just don't want to worry about "will this HD youtube video drive me over the monthly cap"
[18:31:44] *** goussx has quit IRC
[18:36:19] *** ProperNoun has joined #bittorrent
[18:51:26] *** GTHK has joined #bittorrent
[19:04:12] *** KyleK_ has joined #bittorrent
[19:05:35] <TheSHAD0W> This satellite provider has a system that would work, though it'd be somewhat annoying...
[19:06:01] <TheSHAD0W> They do a 30 day running average; if you go over the average, they restrict your bandwidth until the average goes back below the limit.
[19:06:17] <TheSHAD0W> So you don't get overage charges, but you may get days with slower net.
[19:07:23] <The_8472> hrrm, seems reasonable
[19:08:08] <mpl> the need to add an option where you can go clean by paying more if you really need to though.
[19:08:59] <TheSHAD0W> Yeah, that'd be nice.
[19:09:21] <TheSHAD0W> Though problematic with satellite; they *really* want to restrict bandwidth usage, for obvious reasons.
[19:09:32] <mpl> yeah.
[19:11:00] <mpl> "what, you can't send as many bytes as you want through the air? but it's larger than a tube on the internets!"
[19:11:53] <skampler> do you think there's any space left on the segment of lightweight cli torrent clients?
[19:12:37] <mpl> dunno about lightweight, but there's indeed several cli clients already.
[19:12:42] <skampler> yeah
[19:12:53] <mpl> if you care about it being used that's a concern yeah.
[19:13:08] <mpl> if you just want to do it for fun, just go for it ;)
[19:13:16] <skampler> i care about both :D
[19:14:04] <mpl> be original, make one that downloads pink ponies.
[19:14:21] <skampler> i've written a bencode parser and urlencoder, building tracker queries right now
[19:14:42] <skampler> yeah, a uber-pink GUI with cute buttons
[19:15:45] <skampler> and little sounds each time you click a button
[19:15:47] <mpl> make it play moaning sounds when clicking on buttons, and call it pinktorrent.
[19:15:53] <skampler> :D
[19:16:46] <The_8472> <skampler> do you think there's any space left on the segment of lightweight cli torrent clients? <- I doubt it.
[19:17:25] <The_8472> unless you can come up with some killer feature that no other cli client has
[19:17:42] <skampler> ok
[19:17:44] <mpl> hence the ponies and sounds.
[19:18:22] <mpl> skampler: there's another spot open though, you could target unsupported platforms.
[19:19:03] <The_8472> bittorrent on android!
[19:19:13] <mpl> obscure OSes like windows 7.
[19:19:32] * The_8472 runs Az on win7 x64 without problems
[19:19:57] * mpl was kidding.
[19:20:18] <mpl> well, not about the obscure part.
[19:20:29] <mpl> but then I never understood anything about windows.
[19:21:16] <The_8472> it's not really that obscure... win7 has a much better uptake then vista
[19:21:32] <The_8472> and XP had years to solidify its market share, so you can't really compare that... yet
[19:21:52] <The_8472> in fact, many big companies waited out vista to make an xp -> 7 switch
[19:22:32] <mpl> yeah, I read that.
[19:23:05] <mpl> that apparently annoyed the hell out of MS because they had never intended to keep XP supported for so long.
[19:23:43] *** edigaryev has quit IRC
[19:23:43] *** The_8472 has quit IRC
[19:23:43] *** stalled has quit IRC
[19:23:43] *** tris has quit IRC
[19:23:43] *** swinokur has quit IRC
[19:23:43] *** alus has quit IRC
[19:23:47] *** TheSHAD0W has quit IRC
[19:23:50] *** Firon has quit IRC
[19:23:50] *** charles has quit IRC
[19:23:51] *** deltab has quit IRC
[19:23:51] *** charles_ has quit IRC
[19:23:51] *** A9[idle] has quit IRC
[19:23:51] *** mpl has quit IRC
[19:23:51] *** erdgeist has quit IRC
[19:23:59] <DWKnight> for the record
[19:24:02] <DWKnight> netsplits suck
[19:25:34] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent
[19:30:58] *** TheSHAD0W has joined #bittorrent
[19:30:58] *** Firon has joined #bittorrent
[19:30:58] *** charles has joined #bittorrent
[19:30:58] *** deltab has joined #bittorrent
[19:30:58] *** charles_ has joined #bittorrent
[19:30:58] *** erdgeist has joined #bittorrent
[19:30:58] *** A9[idle] has joined #bittorrent
[19:30:58] *** mpl has joined #bittorrent
[19:32:01] *** edigaryev has joined #bittorrent
[19:32:01] *** The_8472 has joined #bittorrent
[19:32:01] *** tris has joined #bittorrent
[19:32:01] *** stalled has joined #bittorrent
[19:32:01] *** alus has joined #bittorrent
[19:32:01] *** swinokur has joined #bittorrent
[19:44:26] <swolchok> who said that?
[19:47:29] <DWKnight> who said what?
[19:47:32] <DWKnight> that netsplits suck?
[19:48:11] <K`Tetch> I've had vista now for almost a year, not had a problem with it
[19:51:12] *** stalled has quit IRC
[19:51:32] <TheSHAD0W> I've had issues.
[19:58:28] <K`Tetch> then again, I also used ME for 4 years and experianced none of the issues everyone else had
[20:02:17] *** stalled has joined #bittorrent
[20:15:21] <The_8472> i bet K`Tetch only turns his computer on and then doesn't touch it for days
[20:15:28] <The_8472> it's perfectly stable!
[20:17:09] <DWKnight> ME was one of those oddities
[20:17:14] <DWKnight> either it worked smooth as glass
[20:17:21] <DWKnight> or it was a live grenade with no pin
[20:17:58] <The_8472> i skipped from 98SE straight to 2k
[20:18:06] *** quodt_ has joined #bittorrent
[20:18:13] <The_8472> then skipped xp to vista and upgraded to 7
[20:18:25] <The_8472> vista only existed for a few months on my system
[20:18:32] <The_8472> and i must say 7 > vista
[20:18:57] <DWKnight> agreed there
[20:19:07] <DWKnight> I'm not sure I'm going to boot into my vista on this box anymore
[20:21:59] <K`Tetch> the only windows I have skipped since 3.0 was 98SE
[20:33:40] *** quodt has quit IRC
[20:33:40] *** quodt_ is now known as quodt
[20:37:45] *** rrr has quit IRC
[20:45:54] *** KyleK_ has quit IRC
[20:50:00] *** KyleK_ has joined #bittorrent
[20:55:33] <TheSHAD0W> I had ME on one machine, discovered that it had memory management problems even when you had a lot of RAM.
[20:55:42] <TheSHAD0W> Installing "Ram Idle" helped it a LOT.
[20:56:24] <TheSHAD0W> Went from being incessantly laggy within minutes after boot, to being usable for days.
[21:03:08] *** rrr has joined #bittorrent
[21:16:54] <skampler> http://pastebin.ca/1765623
[21:17:28] <skampler> this paste contains a raw hash and a urlencoded tracker url for that hash
[21:18:05] <skampler> the tracker response is ( http://tracker001.legaltorrents.com:7070/announce7?info_hash=%8C%A2%BF%78%12%72%0F%CF%79%BA%C8%12%D2%99%17%A2%60%77%4A%25 ), what am I doing wrong here?
[21:18:18] <skampler> do I need more parameters for the request?
[21:18:35] <skampler> the tracker says the torrent doesn't exist.
[21:18:48] <skampler> i have verified that the hash itself is correct thru another client
[21:20:53] <skampler> never mind i'll figure this out :)
[21:20:59] <skampler> sorry for the spam!
[21:23:51] <K`Tetch> TheSHAD0W - I had a box with ME in, had 48Mb ram iirc, ran it for weeks at ttime
[21:26:56] *** quodt has quit IRC
[21:27:40] *** quodt has joined #bittorrent
[21:41:59] *** edigaryev has quit IRC
[22:34:35] <DWKnight> skampler: the spec lists a lot of required paramaters
[22:44:48] <skampler> DWKnight: yes, i added myself to the tracker list of the torrent from a working client and looked at what it sent to me ;) the error in this case was the tracker URL
[22:45:22] <skampler> anyhow now the next step is to implement the peer wire protocol
[22:48:51] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC
[22:49:25] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent
[23:18:07] *** KyleK_ has quit IRC
[23:23:06] *** bt42 has joined #BitTorrent
[23:23:27] *** WireBot has joined #bittorrent
[23:41:42] *** RageBot has quit IRC
[23:41:58] *** bittwist has quit IRC
[23:42:19] *** cyb2063 has quit IRC
[23:50:19] *** _rafi_ has quit IRC
[23:52:40] *** quodt has quit IRC





top