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[10:52:19] <wanttobe> my bittorrent client downloaded a torrent at 400 kb/s. how did it do that without port forwarding?
[10:54:36] <kjetilho> you found peers *with* port forwarding
[10:55:13] <kjetilho> enabling port forwarding only means you can talk to clients without it
[10:55:50] <wanttobe> i see
[10:55:52] <wanttobe> ok
[10:56:06] <wanttobe> thanks
[10:56:11] <kjetilho> yw
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[12:06:45] <DWKnight> http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202437947299&nd_Circuit_Reinstates_Antitrust_Claim_Against_Online_Music_Providers
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[14:27:10] <superlinux> hi all
[14:27:30] <superlinux> which bittorrent client can do link aggregation?
[14:29:32] <DeHackEd> can do what?
[14:30:11] <superlinux> DeHackEd, like can make use of multiple gateway connections?
[14:30:24] <kjetilho> sounds like a layering violation
[14:30:59] <kjetilho> routing shouldn't be handled at the application layer
[14:31:54] <superlinux> kjetilho, true
[14:32:28] <superlinux> however I have two internet connections. I want to speed up the internet
[14:32:39] <DeHackEd> and THAT I can help you with, to a limited degree
[14:32:47] <superlinux> ok
[14:32:54] <superlinux> I can continue from there
[14:33:08] <DeHackEd> first, a single connection from a source IP should always go out the same interface because your ISP might do filtering. it also means that you need to try to balance number of connections on each ISP
[14:33:11] <superlinux> but not Linux bonding
[14:33:26] <DeHackEd> second, I'm going to work so you'll have to wait while I go there and sign into IRC with an alternative name.
[14:33:33] <DeHackEd> or maybe someone else can help.
[14:33:49] <superlinux> DeHackEd, I have two different ISP's
[14:34:03] <DeHackEd> yeah I got that.
[14:34:40] <superlinux> ok DeHackEd
[14:34:48] <superlinux> i am here
[14:34:59] <kjetilho> superlinux: your problem is that you're not participating in the routing protocols.  so you don't know how to segregate the address space between your links
[14:35:48] <superlinux> kjetilho, what I understood is that bittorent can make use of multiple connections
[14:36:17] <kjetilho> btw, with a stock BT client, you'll only be able to announce *one* IP address
[14:36:39] <kjetilho> but that's OK, since you can connect to peers yourself with the other IP
[14:38:48] <superlinux> i will try to run another instance of the bittorent client and force it to use the other IP
[14:39:45] <kjetilho> two clients downloading to the same file will not cooperate
[14:39:59] <kjetilho> they will both download the file completely
[14:40:14] <The_8472> you could try Azureus and bind it to several interfaces, it should then round-robin the source addresses of each connection
[14:40:34] <kjetilho> The_8472: too simple!
[14:40:38] <kjetilho> :-)
[14:40:49] <The_8472> never tested if it works though, due to the lack of multiple default gateways ^^
[14:40:58] <superlinux> ok
[14:41:01] <superlinux> i'll see
[14:41:57] <The_8472> kjetilho, well... running 2 clients that have lan discovery built-in would work. unless interface binding would interfere with the lan-local connections
[14:42:38] <kjetilho> you'd still need to store the file(s) in duplicate
[14:42:42] <kjetilho> ?
[14:42:54] <superlinux> I think all download managers must support this link aggregation
[14:43:03] <The_8472> you probably could store them on a shared drive if you can get around file locking
[14:43:16] <kjetilho> BT clients do file locking?
[14:43:17] <DWKnight> bittorrent handles things differently enough that link aggregation is NOT trivial to set up
[14:43:26] <superlinux> some say that iptables can do that for all applications
[14:44:06] <kjetilho> superlinux: one idea is to route odd and even addresses differently
[14:44:08] <The_8472> well, iptables can do load balancing by NATing to different output interfaces, yes
[14:44:33] <kjetilho> NAT?
[14:44:48] <superlinux> Network address translation
[14:44:50] <The_8472> well, if you run it on a router
[14:45:18] <kjetilho> oh.  I guess you won't get automatic source address selection
[14:45:25] <kjetilho> (if you use mangle)
[14:45:34] <The_8472> if you do things locally you can probably setup load balancing directly, so that the kernel round-robins the outgoing address when you have multiple default routes
[14:45:34] <kjetilho> so you need to mangle the source address as well
[14:49:01] <DWKnight> there's a big mess involved in aggregating multiple internet connections properly in torrents
[14:50:04] <The_8472> as i said, if you have multiple default routes split by (virtual) interfaces Azureus might be able to load balance simply based on binding the source address
[14:50:26] <The_8472> never got anybody to test it though
[14:50:56] <DWKnight> tracker announcing and incoming connections are tricky
[14:52:41] <The_8472> well, you have to rely on PEX for that
[14:52:59] <The_8472> if you round-robin your outgoings other peers should learn both of your external addresses
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[15:03:47] <DHE> so
[15:04:12] <The_8472> so?
[15:04:51] <DHE> I was supposed to get superlinux up with multiple ISPs in a reasonable fashion
[15:05:27] <The_8472> he hasn't uttered a word in the last 20 minutes
[15:08:03] <DHE> I know. We'll see if my plugging his name will get his attention.
[15:35:39] <DHE> I guess not
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[16:16:46] <DHE> oh well
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[16:24:06] <superlinux> DHE, ?
[16:24:14] <superlinux> I am back
[16:34:59] <DHE> ah, there you are
[16:35:13] <DHE> obvious question: do you have static IP addresses on either of these internet connections?
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[16:41:04] <DHE> great, IRC tag
[16:44:11] <superlinux> DHE my connections are behind the NAT
[16:44:15] <superlinux> so I can set my own
[16:44:28] <DHE> oh... darn. okay then...
[16:44:48] <DHE> then you can probably only make outbound connections reliably
[16:45:18] <DHE> there's 3 steps:  1) set up the custom routing tables    2) set up rules of when to use the tables,  and 3) add some randomization if you don't already have it.
[16:46:53] <superlinux> ok
[16:47:19] <superlinux> DHE? what if I do a round robin add/delete the default gateway?
[16:48:12] <DHE> what you do is define multiple routing tables with different rules of when to use one.
[16:49:24] <DHE> so two NAT routers?
[16:49:25] <The_8472> if you're behind nat anyway you can just configure iptables to dynamically masquerade over multiple interfaces. via conntrack it'll keep individual flows confined to one interface
[16:50:23] <DHE> using iptables' probability module you can match a rule 50% of the time and direct traffic in some direction.
[16:50:41] <DHE> and the other half of the time use some default
[16:50:50] <The_8472> that's not even needed, the NATing facility has explicit support for round-robin
[16:51:24] <The_8472> you need both WAN interfaces on the same box though
[16:52:01] <DHE> oh? well that simplifies things...
[16:52:04] <The_8472> or at least have it on one router that then forwards one of the outgoing interfaces to the other
[16:52:51] <superlinux> DHE, I was thinking of using the  command 'route' and to switch between routes
[16:53:07] <DHE> I had a friend who did this, but put all his NAT routers on the same broadcast domain, so I don't think it quite works out that way...
[16:53:30] <The_8472> SNAT: 'In Kernels up to 2.6.10, you can add several --to-source options. For those kernels, if you specify more than one source address, either via an address range or multiple --to-source options, a simple round-robin'
[16:53:53] <DHE> who uses 2.6.9 or lower though?
[16:53:57] <superlinux> and make a script
[16:53:58] <DHE> besides Centos/RHEL 4
[16:54:35] <superlinux> every now and then delete and add gateway #1 then do the same with gateway #2
[16:55:01] <The_8472> embedded linux systems often still use 2.4
[16:55:24] <The_8472> superlinux, uhm... i think that would kill existing connections.
[16:55:32] <The_8472> going over the gateway you're deleting
[16:55:57] <DHE> what I do is define two routing tables - the first is the default, and the second has only a default gateway to the second ISP and forcing an alternative local IP address.
[16:56:03] <superlinux> yeah.. you're right
[16:56:56] <DHE> the table is matched by the right source IP requesting it. then it's a matter of getting that source IP used randomly
[16:58:18] <The_8472> what happens if you just specify 2 default routes under linux?
[16:58:31] <The_8472> with the same weight
[17:02:16] <The_8472> http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.rpdb.multiple-links.html
[17:02:17] <DHE> I'm not sure. from the docs for `ip`, it might do what you want...
[17:03:17] <superlinux> I dont know
[17:03:19] <superlinux> maybe it will select the 1st comer
[17:05:45] <The_8472> and http://www.ssi.bg/~ja/#routes
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