[00:00:09] <Switeck> Having 1000's of people running 50+ torrents makes for a LOT of tracker update traffic. If 99.999% of them are all seeds, it's effectively pointless waste.
[00:00:14] <kjetilho> overseeding is only a problem when combined with ratio enforcement, yes
[00:00:34] <DWKnight> gamr had a nice set of ratio enforcement
[00:00:43] <DWKnight> back in the day
[00:00:44] <K`Tetch> http://ktetch.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/super-seeders-stupid-settings/ <-- hehe
[00:01:04] <K`Tetch> unf. I can't log into the utorrent channel, without my router goign into failsafe :-(
[00:01:31] <DeHackEd> holy f**k
[00:01:41] <DWKnight> his trick was, ratio enforcement only mattered if you tried to hit and run
[00:01:41] <DeHackEd> huh?
[00:02:22] <The_8472> "Hard to know where to begin really. 2700 torrents, a half-open limit set to 100,000 (there are only 65,000 or so ports total) " <- that part is still misleading ^.^
[00:03:19] <K`Tetch> slightly, but at the same time, accurate
[00:03:28] <K`Tetch> and the point is that it's WAY higher than it needs to be
[00:03:46] <kjetilho> K`Tetch: I had a friend which used to do such massive seeding.  he was into academic papers and books, so the files were pretty small and so the cloud would easily die
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[00:03:59] <DeHackEd> yeah. I remind you that apache uses 1 port and handles hundreds of connections
[00:04:23] <The_8472> humans are cutting down 100.000 trees per day (there are only 10.000 species of trees in the world)
[00:04:33] <kjetilho> DeHackEd: hundreds of thousands, you mean?
[00:05:06] <DeHackEd> not at once. and not on a typical machine. yes it CAN...
[00:05:20] <The_8472> kjetilho, that's what scrapes are good for
[00:05:22] <Switeck> If a BT client isn't firewalled, why have half open connections set very high at all?
[00:05:25] <The_8472> and queue rules
[00:05:26] <Switeck> Better to wait in ambush!
[00:05:41] <The_8472> that too
[00:05:44] <kjetilho> The_8472: he was using Azureus, so it probably did the right thing
[00:05:53] <Switeck> and uninstalled itself?
[00:06:02] * The_8472 glares at Switeck
[00:06:03] <kjetilho> (and he was *very* clueful)
[00:06:26] <Switeck> I meant over the terrible settings
[00:07:02] <K`Tetch> ok, I removed the ports thing, happy now The_8472
[00:07:21] <The_8472> well, default settings aren't perfect either. especially not for the case of many, small, rarely downloaded torrents. but still. there are better ways than running everything at once
[00:08:04] <The_8472> better
[00:09:11] <Switeck> the default settings even differentiate between downloading and seeding, as far as max connections per torrent are concerned?
[00:09:48] <The_8472> they could, not sure if they do
[00:10:21] <Switeck> a seed that's connecting to every peer in existence is probably not all that great unless it's on a 1 gbit/sec line all by its lonesome.
[00:11:21] <kjetilho> the motivation is not to increase download speed for the cloud, but to keep the material available
[00:11:35] <Switeck> all the better for seeds to be useful
[00:12:15] <kjetilho> well, if you have 2700 torrents of 50 MB PDF
[00:12:22] <kjetilho> you will mostly be idling
[00:12:30] <Switeck> Even average ADSL with only 512kbit/sec upload is "ok" to have 50-100 torrents started so long as only 10 at most are active.
[00:13:14] <Switeck> If you have >10 GBs of PDF files spread across 2700 torrents, you really need at least 100 mbit/sec upload
[00:13:27] <Switeck> or it's a stretch to even call them available
[00:13:39] <The_8472> kjetilho> the motivation is not to increase download speed for the cloud, but to keep the material available <- actually, there are 2 conflicting goals. helping to distribute new content as fast as possible and basically compensate for asymmetric connections and to keep old content alive
[00:13:59] <kjetilho> Switeck: I don't see why.
[00:14:01] <The_8472> i usually opt for the former, simply based on the fact that there is a limited amount of bandwidth and old stuff eventually HAS to die
[00:14:17] <Switeck> TCP networking performs horribly when packet sizes fall
[00:14:21] <The_8472> <Switeck> the default settings even differentiate between downloading and seeding, as far as max connections per torrent are concerned? <- now it does
[00:14:25] <kjetilho> Switeck: consider the churn rate of a library.  one in 10000 books lent out per day.
[00:14:51] <Switeck> 10 connections per torrent for seeds is usually enough to handle up to 2 mbit/sec uploads
[00:15:48] <Switeck> at this time, that covers most ADSL and cable users.
[00:15:54] <kjetilho> I don't disagree that you need a fat pipe to do more than 10 *actually* active torrents
[00:16:22] <kjetilho> but I don't think it's hard to find 2700 torrents of niche material...
[00:17:30] <kjetilho> e.g., stuff like etree.org or cashmusic.org
[00:18:09] <The_8472> in Az we have the ability to count incoming connections on a queued torrent as 1 peer as if the torrent was scraped. when nothing else needs to be seeded that torrent can then be de-queued.
[00:18:16] <The_8472> need special tracker support though
[00:18:28] <Switeck> If you had 2 mbit/sec upload, even 40 active torrents might be ok if they had <4 peers each
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[00:24:21] <Switeck> de-queued? you mean started?
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[00:31:43] <The_8472> yes
[00:33:32] <Switeck> good
[00:33:43] <The_8472> http://torrentfreak.com/record-label-stops-signing-artists-because-of-piracy-100104/ <- hrrm. i ponder if that will improve their business
[00:34:32] <Switeck> Self-fulfilling prophecy!
[00:34:56] <K`Tetch> nope
[00:35:09] <K`Tetch> look down in he comments, you'll find a linkk to finnish sales figures going back to 1980
[00:35:24] <K`Tetch> they've been static since the early 90s
[00:35:45] <Switeck> I mean if they quit singing new artists, they will see revenue declines they can blame on piracy
[00:36:19] <The_8472> are those numbers inflation-corrected?
[00:36:57] <K`Tetch> they're raw sales figures, from the finnish IFPI
[00:37:11] <K`Tetch> http://neuron2neuron.blogspot.com/2009/05/finnish-pirate-party-study.html - the link
[00:37:26] <The_8472> oh, those are units, not monies
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[02:18:08] <TheSHAD0W> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8439200.stm
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[03:30:49] <Firon> bono's a complete cock
[03:32:50] <alus> seriously
[03:34:28] <Switeck> That people are willing to pay firstly for an overpriced broadband connection, then pay more for a seedbox so they can seed on private trackers represents a huge failure by the media industries
[03:37:56] <alus> but when you trick people in to buying dvds they don't want you make so much more money
[03:38:06] <alus> online distribution is too efficient
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[15:09:34] <rezabrando> can we speak about utorrent here?
[15:18:04] <The_8472> as long as it does not involve any illegal activities, yes
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[15:33:18] <DeHackEd> I guess that's a no then
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[15:41:16] <TheSHAD0W> ...
[15:41:44] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/kama-sutra-most-pirated-ebook-of-2009-1858488.html
[15:42:25] <TheSHAD0W> Interesting how the "most pirated e-book" is an ancient work that's centuries out of copyright.  :-P
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[15:46:57] <kjetilho> TheSHAD0W: even if the text is public domain, this specific collection of text and art is copyrightable
[15:47:48] <kjetilho> oh, and the translation, too.
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[16:03:40] <The_8472> 'The website freakbits.com, which delivers news from the popular file-sharing site BitTorrent' lol
[16:03:47] <The_8472> bittorrent is a file sharing site now
[16:04:35] <TheSHAD0W> Where'd you read that?
[16:05:06] <The_8472> in the article you linked
[16:05:11] <TheSHAD0W> Oh.
[16:05:12] <TheSHAD0W> Duh.
[16:09:45] <TheSHAD0W> ...
[16:10:05] <TheSHAD0W> I don't see any article about pirated books on freakbits.com.
[16:15:53] <The_8472> http://freakbits.com/the-10-most-pirated-ebooks-of-2009-0831
[16:16:07] <TheSHAD0W> ...
[16:16:21] <The_8472> but yeah, they should link to their sources
[16:16:27] <TheSHAD0W> Weird, it's not on the front page.
[16:16:36] <TheSHAD0W> That's pretty silly.
[16:17:45] <TheSHAD0W> http://freakbits.com/archives?showall=1
[16:17:51] <TheSHAD0W> ...
[16:18:08] <TheSHAD0W> How did you find that?
[16:19:29] <The_8472> search function
[16:19:52] <The_8472> the internet's wizard staff
[16:20:27] <TheSHAD0W> Considering it's not linked to anything I'm surprised any search engines found it.
[16:21:41] <The_8472> maybe they have a sitemap for google
[16:32:41] <hlindhe> it is also in the rssfeed for freakbits, with ~1000 readers in google reader
[16:36:05] <TheSHAD0W> Ahh.
[16:48:29] <TheSHAD0W> http://dizzythinks.net/2010/01/sending-your-neighbours-message-through.html
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[18:08:53] <K`Tetch> well, we haven't promoted freakbits all that much yet
[18:09:09] <K`Tetch> i'm just working on some stories for it right this minute in fact
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[20:04:15] <K`Tetch> stupid newspaper reporters
[20:04:29] <K`Tetch> http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/4834703.Man_accused_of_operating_pirate_music_website_OiNK_in_court/
[20:15:22] <jnpplf> I find it highly suspicious that a former IT consultant would be working at a "contact centre"
[20:15:59] <K`Tetch> just got an update from Alan, who said they even got his job wrong
[20:16:12] <K`Tetch> http://wp.me/pBaeZ-31 - a list of some corrections to the piece
[20:17:20] <jnpplf> I want a job correction!
[20:41:39] <kjetilho> jnpplf: you want to be a corrections officer?
[20:41:50] <jnpplf> :-/
[20:42:02] <jnpplf> I'm an IT consultant, and I wouldn't work in a Virgin contact centre :p
[20:42:20] <jnpplf> Even if I was running a multimillion pound piracy machine from my bedsit
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