[00:00:18] <Switeck> The Azureus/Vuze recommended settings are also not particularly great -- they allow rather many connections per torrent
[00:39:46] <hcs91> i mainly use newsgroups now
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[01:34:11] <swolchok> how prevalent is torrent poisoning these days?
[01:34:36] <Switeck> increasing lately from what I've heard, but only on a select few very popular torrents at this time.
[01:36:10] <swolchok> is it effective?
[01:37:04] <The_8472> depends on the piece size and the smartness of your client
[01:38:34] <Switeck> It is not terribly effective unless it's being done to drain a lone seed dry on a new torrent.
[01:39:31] <The_8472> some rather dumb bittorrent implementations should be easy to poison so well that they won't finish the torrent until the end of time
[01:39:44] <Switeck> also depends on if people are blocking the narrow hostile ip ranges the poisoners are using (rather than blocking much of the internet...)
[01:39:45] <swolchok> i.e. if they never give up on a peer that sends bad pieces
[01:40:12] <swolchok> thought there was a 2008 paper from UW that suggested that copyright enforcement interests' IPs are not effectively blocked with IP blacklists
[01:40:15] <Switeck> almost every BitTorrent client will give up on a peer that sends only bad pieces.
[01:40:38] <Switeck> the paper only concerned monitoring, not poisoning I bet.
[01:40:44] <The_8472> if they can identify those peers
[01:40:45] <swolchok> think you're right
[01:41:03] <Switeck> monitoring is effectively unblockable, because the TRACKER hands out your ip to all who ask (unless the tracker also blocks ips)
[01:41:27] <The_8472> well, opentracker poisons the well so to speak. they hand out valid IPs that are not part of the swarm
[01:41:38] <Switeck> why?
[01:41:40] <The_8472> so relying on the tracker info without verifying each IP won't do much good
[01:42:04] <swolchok> some enforcement agencies (used to?) send takedown letters based only on tracker handing out IP
[01:42:14] <swolchok> that was the point of said paper
[01:42:25] <Switeck> with high percentages of the ips in the swarm firewalled, it'd be hard to tell if the ips a tracker hands out are valid or not.
[01:42:41] <The_8472> that's the idea
[01:42:42] <swolchok> http://dmca.cs.washington.edu is the site for the paper
[01:43:05] <Switeck> poisoners and monitoring peers are not the same thing.
[01:43:19] <The_8472> it prevents the tracker to be used as evidence gathering machine for others. if you want to sue someone, do it yourself
[01:43:20] <Switeck> often, they're not even both done by the same companies!
[01:43:23] <swolchok> yeah I know but blocking IPs is intended as a defense against both
[01:43:31] <The_8472> they're done by the same companies now ^^
[01:43:46] <The_8472> mediadefender and mediasentry got merged under a new name for example
[01:43:53] <Switeck> no, blocking IPs is mistakenly used as a defense that only works against one...
[01:44:06] <swolchok> point is that users rely on it as a catch-all defense
[01:44:21] <The_8472> i don't block IPs at all. instead Az just identifies poisoners and then blocks an entire /24
[01:44:36] <The_8472> way more adaptive than using blocklists
[01:45:01] <The_8472> <swolchok> point is that users rely on it as a catch-all defense <- users are stupid
[01:45:11] <The_8472> but that's old news
[01:46:31] <DWKnight> poisoners are easy to identify, and most clients will ban ones that are identified. "spy" peers are at best almost impossible to identify because they behave identically to normal good peers
[01:47:58] <Switeck> unfortunately, identifying poisoners on giant torrents with 4 MB pieces means probably multiple 4 MB pieces have to be redownloaded at least once.
[01:48:31] <Switeck> While that is usually trivial, thanks to shitty ISPs with low daily/monthly bandwidth quotas...it's still unwanted.
[01:51:31] <The_8472> yep
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[06:19:25] <dandon> DWKnight: link me to one of those youtube vids
[06:21:53] <Switeck> that's more my specialty than his XD
[06:22:08] <Switeck> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVq2GkzNrY8&feature=related
[06:24:27] <dandon> ^^ k. let's see
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[06:25:19] <Switeck> do not consider any setting that video suggests to be in nay way correct or useful
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[06:25:38] <Switeck> typo: "in nay way" -> "in any way"
[06:26:13] <dandon> yah ^
[06:26:31] <dandon> i can't wtach this fkr with this popup
[06:26:38] <dandon> it says he has a new video
[06:26:42] <dandon> well i'm just going to listen
[06:29:46] <dandon> 1890 max. con. you can't be serious.
[06:33:05] <dandon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0fvSytU9jw
[06:33:12] <dandon> his updated version
[06:33:15] <Switeck> note that global max is LESS than per torrent max
[06:33:41] <Switeck> same issue occurs with the max active torrents
[06:33:53] <dandon> yes i saw that
[06:34:02] <Switeck> "count to 5 by 10's, stop at 20."
[06:34:20] <dandon> is that what he said?
[06:34:22] <Switeck> brain damage that bad is clearly contagious.
[06:34:30] * dandon heheheh
[06:34:37] <swolchok> is there a nice plain C bdecode library without obnoxious external deps? libbtutil0-dev on ubuntu seems to depend on apache
[06:34:46] <Switeck> and much of the human race is already infected!
[06:34:58] <Switeck> that quote is mine in describing it...
[06:35:03] <dandon> Switeck: you know david wilcox?
[06:35:11] <Switeck> no
[06:35:17] <dandon> *cock
[06:35:19] <dandon> sec
[06:35:32] <dandon> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4951448613711060908
[06:35:49] <dandon> it's nothing with software
[06:37:12] <dandon> but with various stuff from everything. seriously. this guy touches everything you can
[06:37:41] <Switeck> touched in the head perhaps too
[06:38:24] <dandon> :)
[06:39:40] <dandon> but i will give you a rundown. he talks about contact (movie), stargate, pineal gland,
[06:39:56] <dandon> and yea religion and a little bit about the new world order, iirc
[06:46:49] <Switeck> There's therapy for that now.
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[07:22:45] <p1mrx> what Linux torrent clients (other than Vuze) show DHT statistics?  Deluge and Transmission do not appear to show anything.
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[07:40:52] <swolchok> p1mrx: what do you mean by DHT statistics? size?
[07:41:29] <p1mrx> nothing in particular, just all kinds of random numbers to show what the DHT network is doing.
[07:43:11] <swolchok> stay out of my research agenda ;)
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[09:14:01] <Switeck> http://thereifixedit.com/
[09:33:10] <swolchok> are the magnet links from TPB actually reliable?
[09:33:34] <Switeck> about as reliable as an underwater sailboat
[09:33:42] <Switeck> http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/epic-fail-sailing-fail.jpg
[09:34:12] <hlindhe_> swolchok: worked for me
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[09:40:29] <swolchok> definitely not working for me
[09:52:56] <The_8472> there obviously have to be some seeds/peers on that torrent
[09:57:48] <Switeck> Santa modernizes his sleigh  http://thereifixedit.com/2009/10/20/thats-not-traumatizing-or-anything/
[09:59:05] <The_8472> ... interesting
[09:59:41] <The_8472> HO HO Hooo... i wish you a RED christmas
[10:00:28] <Switeck> one of the comments said: "OMFG! Don?t look, kids. DON?T LOOK!!!"
[10:01:09] <Switeck> ?Mommy, mommy, can I go pet Santa?s deer? Please? Pleeeease??
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[10:50:22] <alus> swolchok: they should be about as reliable as finding a uT peer on the swarm
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[14:44:45] <dandon> bit thorent
[14:46:00] <DWKnight> torrent
[14:46:02] <DWKnight> not thorent
[14:48:23] <dandon> no... i think it's thorent
[14:48:28] <dandon> as mighty as this thing is
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[14:52:38] * DWKnight points at the topic
[14:52:44] <DWKnight> the channel topic disagrees with you
[15:00:13] * dandon farnsworth: ooohhhh myyyy
[15:00:17] <dandon> j/k
[15:01:07] <dandon> but i will if i tell i didn't enjoy your counter
[15:01:32] <dandon> *i will lie
[15:02:01] <dandon> it still thorent, but...
[15:02:04] <dandon> 's
[15:07:35] * DWKnight stabs dandon in the face with a chair
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[15:13:32] <dandon> STAAAB?!     HOW!?
[15:13:49] <dandon> i would just buy you a ticket to find out
[15:18:06] <MobileDe2> I ALWAYS join at the best (ie. strangest) times
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[15:24:17] <dandon> MobileDe2: ^^
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[15:38:05] <MobileDe2> ?
[15:56:09] <dandon> 09-12-06 | 15:18:44	<MobileDe2>	I ALWAYS join at the best (ie. strangest) times
[16:04:43] <MobileDe2> never mind
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[19:21:17] <[1]remy> are there any developers around?
[19:21:41] <[1]remy> I'm trying to write my own tool to generate a .torrent file
[19:22:34] <[1]remy> It was pretty straight forward, I can hand my .torrents to other clients and everything works with my downloading from my getright style webseed
[19:23:20] <[1]remy> But when I switch to trying to do a webseed of a directory instead of single file I seem to be unable to generate the correct hashes
[19:23:32] <[1]remy> Either that or utorrent is doing it wrong :/
[19:23:40] <[1]remy> But that seems pretty unlikely to me
[19:30:19] <[1]remy> Hmm, actually I've even tried generating a .torrent with utorrent and vuze, but I keep banning myself from my own webseed.  Even though I can get individual files from them.  Maybe both utorrent and vuze don't like webseeds of directories?
[19:34:27] <TheSHAD0W> Can you get the webserver's log and see what the clients are actually requesting?
[19:35:05] <[1]remy> I'll take a look
[19:35:25] <TheSHAD0W> Wait, you're saying that it's coming up with bad hashes?
[19:35:59] <[1]remy> yeah, utorrent is reporting bad data was sent
[19:36:02] <TheSHAD0W> I recommend you compare the hashes with the results from another tool.
[19:36:14] <TheSHAD0W> For torrent file creation.
[19:36:57] <[1]remy> I get this with both utorrent and vuze generated .torrents used in either application
[19:37:23] <[1]remy> Unfortunately they add files in different orders so the hashes are all different
[19:37:52] <[1]remy> I wish I could tell them to add files alphabetically just to make things easier for me :(
[19:38:06] <TheSHAD0W> I recommend you adjust your software to reorder the files to match the other software, for easier diagnostics.
[19:38:20] <TheSHAD0W> They *don't* do it alphabetically?
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[19:39:17] <[1]remy> no, different orders.  There seems to be no ryhme or reason
[19:39:45] <[1]remy> utorrent may do folders first, sort those alphabetically, then use the FindNextFile API
[19:39:53] <[1]remy> but I didn't dig that far
[19:40:18] <[1]remy> I'll try making a smaller sample set so I can just hard code to match whatever they use
[19:42:02] <[1]remy> It's sad, I've spent way more hours on trying to do validation than on actually writing the software so far!
[19:42:28] <[1]remy> Had to setup virtual box to run a server since a lot of torrent clients don't like downloading from 127.0.0.1
[19:42:40] <TheSHAD0W> Stupid question...
[19:42:47] <TheSHAD0W> If you run it as a regular seed, does it work?
[19:43:01] <[1]remy> yeah, that works fine
[19:43:04] <TheSHAD0W> ...
[19:43:20] <TheSHAD0W> Then IMO your torrent generator isn't the problem.
[19:43:35] <TheSHAD0W> Which webseed are you running, the Getright one, or mine?
[19:44:03] <[1]remy> the webseed is apache
[19:44:08] <TheSHAD0W> Okay, the Getright spec.
[19:44:15] <[1]remy> I'm using the gr style webseed in the .torrent
[19:44:21] <TheSHAD0W> DCC me one of your torrents, please.
[19:47:14] <TheSHAD0W> Um.
[19:47:21] <TheSHAD0W> I don't see a webseed entry in the torrent.
[19:47:34] <[1]remy> oh
[19:47:42] <[1]remy> sorry, that must of been a bit old
[19:47:48] <[1]remy> let me regen it
[19:47:59] <TheSHAD0W> Is the webseed on a public server?
[19:48:06] <[1]remy> I didn't want to send the current ones I'm doing as they're ~2MB.
[19:48:20] <[1]remy> The webserver is private
[19:48:23] <TheSHAD0W> 2MB isn't bad.  Though the tracker is on your intranet and I can't hit it anyway.
[19:48:27] <[1]remy> behind my firewall
[19:48:33] <TheSHAD0W> I can't do any diagnostics if it's private.  ^_^
[19:48:55] <TheSHAD0W> But I'd like to take a look at the file anyway.
[19:51:39] <TheSHAD0W> Um.
[19:51:43] <TheSHAD0W> What is "adler32"?
[19:52:13] <[1]remy> hmm, I guess I could put some stuff on a free webhost instead of running on my own PC
[19:52:22] <TheSHAD0W> Anyway.
[19:52:23] <[1]remy> adler32 is a 2nd checksum
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[19:52:31] <TheSHAD0W> 2040 bytes long??
[19:52:51] <TheSHAD0W> And what sort of format is it?  All the checksums appended?
[19:53:03] <TheSHAD0W> Anyway.
[19:53:17] <TheSHAD0W> If I remember the Getright webseed format...
[19:53:24] <TheSHAD0W> You have two servers there.
[19:53:25] <[1]remy> If you have an adler32 to go with each sha1 you can use a torrent in other interesting ways
[19:53:34] <[1]remy> Is my plan anyway
[19:53:38] <TheSHAD0W> Hmkay.
[19:53:39] <TheSHAD0W> Anyway.
[19:53:55] <TheSHAD0W> So you have servers up at 192.168.1.103 and .146.
[19:54:07] <TheSHAD0W> On those servers, you have /NVIDIA/...
[19:54:22] <[1]remy> yeah, I thoughts I'd try two servers.
[19:54:27] <[1]remy> yeah
[19:55:07] <TheSHAD0W> /NVIDIA/191.07/asd.txt, etc.
[19:55:21] <[1]remy> yep
[19:55:28] <TheSHAD0W> Are you *sure* the data sets are identical to what you used to create the torrent?
[19:55:45] <[1]remy> Yep
[19:56:06] <[1]remy> I did an md5 on each file
[19:56:18] <TheSHAD0W> And when you run utorrent on the complete data, and do a force recheck, it comes up correct?
[19:57:27] <[1]remy> didn't do that, but I'll do that right now
[20:04:23] <[1]remy> It didn't hash out
[20:04:32] <[1]remy> But I just tried this with utorrent
[20:05:12] <[1]remy> Generated a .torrent from the folder I was doing the webseed on and tried to save to there
[20:05:14] <[1]remy> hmm
[20:05:29] <[1]remy> let me redo this 2nd test
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[20:11:52] <[1]remy> I don't suppose you know why utorrent would have the Force Recheck option disabled?
[20:12:56] <TheSHAD0W> Stop the torrent first.
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[20:16:41] <[1]remy> FWIW If I reset the ban list enough times eventually I finish from the web seed.
[20:17:09] <[1]remy> The force recheck came out clean with the utorrent torrent.  :/
[20:20:13] <[1]remy> yay, it seems my .torrent doesn't have the same checksum
[20:20:48] <[1]remy> err, utorrent won't pass the recheck of my .torrent , only the one it generates
[20:21:02] <TheSHAD0W> Then you have a fault in your generator.
[20:21:22] <[1]remy> So I can confidently go back to finding the bug in my code!  I'm really happy about this actually :)
[20:21:36] <TheSHAD0W> Oh, I understand, very well
[20:21:37] <TheSHAD0W> .
[20:21:53] <TheSHAD0W> It's nice to have *some* direction to go in; without it you get brainlock.
[20:21:54] <[1]remy> I do wish I understood with utorrent was banning the webseed
[20:23:06] <TheSHAD0W> "banning" it?
[20:23:21] <TheSHAD0W> Maybe because of the bad hashes.
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[20:24:59] <TheSHAD0W> Whoops.
[20:25:36] <[1]remy> It bans with the utorrent generated .torrent that has the correct hashes
[20:25:50] <[1]remy> If I reset the ban list enough times it eventually finishes
[20:26:04] <TheSHAD0W> That's strange.
[20:27:40] <[1]remy> very.  There is nothing in the log I can see to indicate why it would do that.
[20:28:40] <[1]remy> I was really at a loss for direction and feel like I'm back on track.  Thank you very much for your time.
[20:28:52] <TheSHAD0W> You're welcome.
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[20:49:46] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.fark.com/cgi/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=4825882 - intermission
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[21:39:47] <[1]remy> great video!
[21:41:33] <swolchok> in case anyone was wondering, my magnet issue from last night was caused by a known bug in Vuze 4.3.0.0, which was still shipped on vuze.com instead of 4.3.0.4
[21:56:29] <alus> hooray!
[22:06:49] <dandon> TheSHAD0W's video. was the music added later or was he imitating unplugged?
[22:07:11] <TheSHAD0W> Pretty sure he was singing along.
[22:09:44] <dandon> hm
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[22:25:07] <_rafi_> "hooray" ? not very nice ... :P
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[22:35:58] <[1]remy> Can anybody recommend a good programmer text editor?  I'm looking for the standard Windows look and feel (no emacs!), built in hex editor, able to handle large files, and hopefully open source
[22:36:38] <[1]remy> Notepad++ keeps crashing on these 7MB files and the hex editor plugin doesn't seem to work well.  Although that may just be a symptom of large files.
[22:39:27] <_rafi_> http://www.crimsoneditor.com/
[22:41:03] <_rafi_> +more ... http://www.thefreecountry.com/programming/editors.shtml
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[22:44:32] <dandon> wtf. the questions covered demographic information, additional influences on mental health, and two sets of queries on Internet addiction and self-injurious behavior. The Internet addiction series came from a formal Internet Addiction Test that has been validated in the literature. Questions on self-harm covered various forms of self-inflicted injury, from pulling hair to hitting or burning....
[22:44:34] <dandon> ...The survey achieved a staggering 99 percent response rate.
[22:44:48] <dandon> http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/12/internet-addicted-youth-engage-in-other-forms-of-self-injury.ars
[22:46:14] <[1]remy> Apparently Crimson editor doesn't like files with more than 32767 characters on a line :(
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[22:52:04] <_rafi_> I don't like it either ... :P
[22:53:39] <TheSHAD0W> LMAO
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[22:55:22] <GTHKn> [1]remy: You're working multi-file right?
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[22:55:44] * klapaucjusz holds his breath while waiting for Shadow to provide an explanation for his outburst.
[22:56:37] <_rafi_> can you keep it on hold for more then 2 min ? ...
[22:58:02] <[1]remy> sure
[22:58:28] <[1]remy> Multi file usually
[22:59:46] <GTHK> Have you had the problem on single file torrents?
[23:01:40] <GTHK> Old and maybe fixed by now, I remember uT having issues with pieces that cross file boundaries.
[23:02:22] <_rafi_> oh, torrents with text editor, nice...
[23:03:17] <[1]remy> I haven't had any problems with single file torrents
[23:03:34] <[1]remy> I found the area of the bug in my code
[23:04:10] <[1]remy> Changing ReadFile from async to blocking looks like I get the expected results
[23:04:11] <[1]remy> weird
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