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[01:17:36] <ChoyKloun> keys must appear in sorted order?
[01:17:39] <ChoyKloun> you say what?
[01:18:14] <ChoyKloun> i just got anotehr reason to hate bencode :P
[01:18:25] <ChoyKloun> had no idea but my output seems to work regardless of sorting
[01:18:38] <The_8472> it matters for infohashes
[01:18:50] <ChoyKloun> and uhm i havent noticed any sort of order in many responess from other clients
[01:18:55] <The_8472> in most other cases it's less problematic, but still sohould be done
[01:19:17] <ChoyKloun> what sort of retarded decoding do people do ?!
[01:19:45] <ChoyKloun> yet another detail in bencode crap i have to fix :(
[01:20:02] <The_8472> we people with proper programming languages just dump it into a map/dictionary/associative array
[01:20:52] <The_8472> and then (hopefully) sort the keys on serialisation
[01:21:13] <ChoyKloun> well ive been too lazy to do proper encoding
[01:21:26] <ChoyKloun> so the code just outputs entry by entry
[01:21:49] <ChoyKloun> or well.. thats not exactly a bad/wrong way of doing it in most cases
[01:22:00] <The_8472> well, if the entries are in the order of the examples then they should be sorted. because the examples are sorted too ^^
[01:22:06] <ChoyKloun> it would take MORE code when outputting to stick it in a table
[01:22:25] <ChoyKloun> no they arent
[01:22:31] <ChoyKloun> not all of them and not consistently
[01:22:42] <The_8472> the examples? yes they are
[01:22:51] <The_8472> you might get confused by the nested dictionaries though ;)
[01:23:12] * The_8472 doublechecks
[01:24:25] <The_8472> yep, the example bencoding output is sorted http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html
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[01:53:22] <alus> ChoyKloun: most parsers accept any sorting. the canonical way to output is to sort keys. if you're going to hash the data, this matters
[01:53:48] <alus> ChoyKloun: it's a neat property of bencode that there is a canonical way to output, not a bug
[01:54:44] <alus> ChoyKloun: because in reality, no one cares that "dictionaries" are unsorted. real world dictionaries are sorted, and printed the OED out of order would be pretty freaking useless
[02:01:16] <ChoyKloun> aaah ya
[02:01:26] <ChoyKloun> for hashing it certainly does
[02:01:29] <ChoyKloun> i wasnt reading the full context
[02:02:13] <ChoyKloun> i was starting to think some parsers were optimized in ways that made them mess up on unsorted dicts :)
[02:02:38] <ChoyKloun> the_8472: examples yes, my impementations no :)
[02:02:52] <The_8472> RTFM
[02:03:08] <ChoyKloun> well obviously it doesnt matter in any way whatsoever for what im doing
[02:03:23] <ChoyKloun> if i ever need to output data that will be sorted i'll do it the proper way obviously
[02:03:57] <The_8472> <alus> ChoyKloun: it's a neat property of bencode that there is a canonical way to output, not a bug <- except for lists
[02:04:30] <ChoyKloun> oh right, no keys
[02:04:30] <ChoyKloun> heh
[02:04:50] <ChoyKloun> shouldnt the list entries be treated as keys then
[02:05:06] <alus> The_8472: hm? lists have order
[02:05:13] <The_8472> the problem is when you have composite values in your lists
[02:05:20] <alus> such as?
[02:05:39] <The_8472> idk... paths
[02:05:51] <ChoyKloun> a neater solution is often to have the sorting done at hashing time
[02:06:21] <ChoyKloun> like hash all elements individually, sort THAT and then hash it
[02:06:55] <ChoyKloun> or well s/is often/could often be/
[02:07:02] <alus> that makes computing the hash stateful
[02:07:12] <alus> but sure, it's an option
[02:07:17] <ChoyKloun> 99.999% of the times i hash network data its HMAC or similar
[02:07:29] <The_8472> well, the info dictionary needs an overhaul imo. it allows too many different combinations per single set of identical files
[02:07:32] <ChoyKloun> uhm like hash algorithms arent stateful alredy .. ? :)
[02:07:48] <The_8472> i think he means stream processing / single pass hashing
[02:08:15] <alus> you don't even need a bencoder if you're going to hash the whole thing
[02:08:23] <ChoyKloun> <tease>but maybe all you real language with associative array coders know about hashing is "lets call sha1()"</tease> :-)
[02:08:53] <alus> uh, uTorrent is written in C++
[02:09:01] <alus> and we don't use the STL
[02:09:02] <The_8472> not really, we have a highly optimized SHA1 implementation in Az
[02:09:23] <ChoyKloun> ya you werent part of the conversation where that was brought up :)
[02:10:00] <ChoyKloun> when i did my usual complaining about bencode and it erupted into the usual small language wars :)
[02:10:55] <The_8472> http://fisheye1.atlassian.com/browse/azureus/azureus2/org/gudy/azureus2/core3/util/SHA1.java?r=1.7#l59
[02:11:00] <ChoyKloun> when i actually has too much free time on my hands i sooo ahve to write an optimized bencode parser in asm :)
[02:11:35] <ChoyKloun> highly optimized java.. isnt that like deep-fried snow?
[02:11:36] <ChoyKloun> :-)
[02:11:44] <ChoyKloun> oh well, time for a nap before heading to wrok
[02:11:52] <The_8472> java compiles to native code at runtime...
[02:11:52] <ChoyKloun> my sleeping habits are so messed up (like usual)
[02:12:10] <The_8472> so arithmetic instructions are practically the same as if written in C
[02:13:35] <ChoyKloun> that one looks good but isnt a dword load + bswapl faster than 4xbyte load + shift + OR on x86 ?
[02:13:42] <The_8472> and modern JIT compilers do a good job, in some (admittedly rare) cases they can be even faster than C++ due to aggressive runtime optimizations that a static compiler can't do
[02:14:17] <The_8472> no unions. though the compiler can reorder the fetches
[02:14:40] <ChoyKloun> oh well. time to nap and then head to the brain-mine
[02:15:01] <ChoyKloun> and yet another day of being exposed to the horrors of php
[02:17:08] <The_8472> i pity you
[02:17:19] <The_8472> PHP is such a horrible language
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[05:28:57] <burris> what's horrible about php?
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[14:47:11] <The_8472> charles, ETA of 1.8?
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[16:29:40] <dojo> does anyone know of a good lightweight client with a small footprint (like utorrent) that lets you ban hosts?
[16:32:12] <dojo> k cool im sure you are all busy
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[16:37:44] <Andrius> no, we're just waiting 5 minutes before answering to let you leave so that we don't have to answer at all
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[19:10:24] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140561/Home_networking_How_to_avoid_traffic_jams?taxonomyId=12
[19:10:46] <TheSHAD0W> FARK headline: "How to keep your kids' torrents from interfering with your porn"
[19:13:15] <charles> you QoS the damn kids
[19:16:29] <Andrius> local peer discovery might help
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[19:22:38] <The_8472> hahaha
[19:22:40] <Gunni^> is there someone in here that can help me with some bencoding ?
[19:23:09] <The_8472> why don't you just ask your actual question?
[19:23:15] <Gunni^> i need to send the client a interval and a failure reason
[19:24:12] <The_8472> that's not a question
[19:25:17] <Gunni^> lol nvm got it
[19:25:43] <Gunni^> d8:intervali86400e15:warning message18:Down: site is down5:peerslee
[19:26:31] <The_8472> you can do that. nobody will ever see that message though
[19:26:39] <Gunni^> yes they will :)
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[19:26:48] <Gunni^> and their clients stop spamming my server
[19:27:09] <The_8472> clients don't prase "warning message", thus they won't display it
[19:28:01] 
[19:28:07] <Gunni^> i see it in my client
[19:28:08] <TheSHAD0W> Some clients support "warning message".  Mine does.
[19:28:26] <The_8472> hrmpf, and why did nobody add it to bep3?
[19:28:38] <TheSHAD0W> ...
[19:28:40] <Gunni^> also with the warning i can make it use the interval
[19:28:54] <TheSHAD0W> Because I added it to my client before the BEP system was introduced?  :-)
[19:28:57] <The_8472> you also might want to set the min_interval
[19:29:17] <The_8472> well,it's the first timei hear about it
[19:29:25] <TheSHAD0W> Sorry.
[19:29:32] <Gunni^> http://wiki.theory.org/BitTorrentSpecification#Tracker_Response
[19:29:36] <Gunni^> its all there
[19:29:42] <The_8472> that's not the official spec you know
[19:29:46] <The_8472> http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0000.html
[19:30:37] <The_8472> but i retract my earlier statement then
[19:30:55] <The_8472> though i think clients also parse interval/min_interval on failure reason
[19:31:16] <The_8472> at least some do ^^
[19:31:16] <TheSHAD0W> Checking back, it dates from S-5.8.x.
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