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[03:57:09] <TheSHAD0W> http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2009/11/23/the-code.html
[03:58:58] <TheSHAD0W> http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2009/11/23/the-code.html?currentPage=2 - check the comments
[04:01:41] <alus> which?
[04:02:01] <TheSHAD0W> "fudge factor"
[04:02:53] <Switeck> since what we measure totally doesn't fit our contrived model...somehow the data is in error. Let's either toss that out or "fudge factor" it a bit...
[04:03:49] <alus> eh, happens all the time.
[04:03:55] <alus> there are plenty of fudge factors in BT
[04:04:07] <alus> fudge because Bram pulled them out of his ass
[04:05:11] <Switeck> and because you can't see the whole swarm
[04:05:40] <alus> no
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[04:06:04] <alus> just because the internet is a fuzzy place
[04:06:15] <Switeck> I may be talking about different fudges...but it is obvious "super seeding" suffers because of it!
[04:06:28] <alus> super seeding is not shit from Bram's ass
[04:06:34] <Switeck> rarest piece estimations
[04:06:53] <Switeck> without knowing some *JACKASS* with a rare piece has global upload speed set to 1 KB/sec!
[04:06:53] <TheSHAD0W> Uh.
[04:07:16] <TheSHAD0W> What are you talking about, Switeck?
[04:07:36] <TheSHAD0W> That has nothing to do w/ super-seed.
[04:07:41] <Switeck> it is true that super seeding isn't bram's idea
[04:07:44] <TheSHAD0W> And actually, super-seed will adjust for that.
[04:07:52] <Switeck> but I was meaning super seeding in uTorrent XD
[04:07:52] <TheSHAD0W> Super-seed is my work.
[04:07:54] <alus> he's talking about bandwidth-adjusted rarity
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[05:04:07] <Switeck> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_e-mail_hacking_incident
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[16:14:20] <Astro> oh noes
[16:14:29] <Astro> I've been spending a day implementing some DHT abuse
[16:14:39] <Astro> to find that there had been academic work on this before
[16:14:47] <Astro> which is not under open access
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[18:18:24] <uriel> oh dear, now this is a great feature request: http://digg.com/tech_news/The_Pirate_Bay_Tracker_Shuts_Down_for_Good_TorrentFreak?t=29409854&OTC-em-cr2cm#c29580679
[18:18:51] <uriel> (I knew digg was full of idiots, bug this managed to surprise me)
[18:23:26] <mpl> uriel: you're confusing again idiot and ignorant
[18:25:14] <uriel> mpl: perhaps, and I agree that I often make that confusion, but simple logic would show that such a question is quite stupid
[18:27:35] <mpl> uriel: I guess even if that guy knew nothing about bittorrent or even ip addresses, he could guess that if there was such a possibility the bt client would already use it. so yeah it's fair to say he didn't think for long.
[18:28:26] <uriel> mpl: exactly
[18:30:25] <uriel> and even if somehow magically I knew which trackers the mpaa checks, and made it public, everyone, including the mpaa, would switch to other trackers
[18:30:41] <uriel> so the whole concept is absurd
[18:36:39] <alus> just announce all of them
[18:38:14] <burris> some of these tracker operators are so stupid, not letting users with bad ratios download a new torrent for n hours...
[18:41:16] <DWKnight> which just compounds the problem
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[18:46:01] <alus> I guess they expect them to just leech again
[18:52:31] <Astro> uriel: is trackon ipv6-capable?
[18:54:56] <K`Tetch> thats one of the things i've nevr understood, how private tracker people can't understand the zero-sum of ratio per-torrent
[18:55:10] <K`Tetch> (given/take the hash error difference)
[18:59:55] <DWKnight> I don't enforce any ratios on my trackers
[19:00:09] <DWKnight> I find the torrents that will survive do so without it
[19:12:38] <burris> all the students in Lake Woebegon are above average...
[19:18:00] <Astro> you mean their share ratio?
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[19:35:01] <Andrius> K`Tetch, it's not that simple with private trackers, you can increase your ratio with some invention of tracker admins or make ratio completely irrevelant by donating or whatever. There are also leechers who get banned and therefore are taken our of equation. Overall ratio of all users isn't likely to be equal to 1.
[19:37:34] <The_8472> then it's at some offset from 1
[19:38:31] <The_8472> that doesn't change the basic equations
[19:56:38] <charles> that's why most trackers have freeleech weekends or specific free torrents Of The Day... otherwise the entire site would be zero-sum and nobody could get a decent ratio
[19:59:33] <The_8472> the funny thing is... they're complaining about public torrents being slow. and yet dedicate most of their seeding bandwidth to private torrents. some are even asking for queue rules specific trackers, so that they can only seed private torrents
[20:00:01] <The_8472> so, in that way private trackers are actively harming public torrents by encouraging people to build up ratios beyond 1:1
[20:00:32] <The_8472> instead people should be encouraged to only seed up to 1:1 or if the torrent has very few seeds, nothing more. overseeding should actually result in some slight penalties
[20:09:19] <K`Tetch> some are actualy going that way
[20:10:02] <The_8472> well, that's a good thing then.
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[20:24:28] <charles> forwared without comment: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/a8es3/mininova_deletes_all_infringing_torrents_and_goes/c0gbo4j
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[20:27:59] <The_8472> with my immense psychic powers i predict that there may be a slight dent in the graphs in the near future: http://www.mininova.org/statistics
[20:28:42] <erdgeist> The_8472: you've been with Azureus developers?
[20:31:00] <The_8472> i am, sortof, yes
[20:31:09] <alus> hahahahahah
[20:31:15] * alus rolls around on the floor
[20:31:45] <alus> charles you are too straight-faced. I can't take it.
[20:33:04] <erdgeist> The_8472: I've got some statistics for client(-version) distribution on openbittorrent.com's tracker
[20:33:22] <erdgeist> The_8472: Wanted to collect them, as long clients announce at trackers
[20:33:53] <The_8472> you're not the first one to do that, i think. but yeah, openbittorrent is a big fish
[20:34:00] <erdgeist> The_8472: You guys interested in peer_id distribution for peers starting with -AZ?
[20:34:26] <The_8472> i think we've internal statistics from the update server
[20:34:33] <alus> erdgeist: I'd like stats for uT :)
[20:34:42] <erdgeist> alus: gimme a regexp
[20:34:46] <The_8472> K`Tetch might be interested in the overall statistics for torrentfreak though.
[20:34:58] <K`Tetch> cyeah, i will be
[20:35:11] <K`Tetch> but its thanksgiving here in the US, and I'm about to head out with my family
[20:35:14] <erdgeist> The_8472: Yes, I saw hist stats and they are not exactly correct
[20:37:20] <The_8472> btw, people won't just stop to announce to trackers as long as there are some (and as long as they're long-lived enough)
[20:37:47] <The_8472> though an additional layer of indirection like <infohash>.dnstorrent.tld or something like that would be nice
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[20:53:08] <erdgeist> The_8472: well, this only increases DNS traffic on the tracker
[20:53:27] <erdgeist> The_8472: you can't use caches
[20:58:28] <erdgeist> The_8472: well, openbittorrent.com is intended to stay, as well as denis.stalker.h3q.com
[20:58:52] <erdgeist> The_8472: at least until they're obsolete, should dht work good enough with all clients
[21:18:25] <The_8472> erdgeist, you could use caches. it just has to point to an actual tracker hosting that torrent
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[21:18:38] <The_8472> and in the case the tracker goes down... point to another one and wait
[21:20:49] <erdgeist> The_8472: but not _per-info_hash_
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[21:23:29] <The_8472> why not?
[21:24:37] <The_8472> you could even improve it... think of reverse DNS
[21:29:32] <erdgeist> The_8472: A fair amont of traffic already is dns traffic to resolve tracker's address. why would I force clients to do a lookup for every info_hash now?
[21:30:10] <erdgeist> The_8472: We've thought about splitting tracker clouds by info_hash's first byte
[21:30:39] <The_8472> well, shouldn't caches satisfy most of the clients?
[21:31:08] <erdgeist> The_8472: there's two million torrents at the tracker
[21:31:36] <erdgeist> The_8472: The usual leecher's downloading like hundres of ... linux updates at once
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[21:32:16] <erdgeist> The_8472: if that client is starting up, it would now need to do hundreds of dns queries before doing hundreds of announces, which then it can't bundle
[21:32:17] <The_8472> well the big ones should be in the ISP caches for sure
[21:32:45] <The_8472> ah true, that's an issue
[21:33:36] <The_8472> unless you do CNAME lookups
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[21:35:00] <erdgeist> to quote djb: You keep using CNAME records. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
[21:35:04] <erdgeist> :)
[21:37:36] <The_8472> does it matter as long as we can abuse them for what we want?
[21:38:32] <erdgeist> Still, clients have to do the lookup which further increases startup and shutdown times
[21:40:36] <The_8472> well, i guess you're right
[21:40:57] <The_8472> still, separating DNS servers and actual tracker server adds another head to the hydra
[21:44:46] <erdgeist> The_8472: well, we're taking heat for providing dns for denis.stalker already
[21:44:55] <The_8472> really?
[21:45:10] <erdgeist> The_8472: Yes, we've had a police raid
[21:45:26] <erdgeist> The_8472: just for having dns pointing to our tracker, not for running the tracker
[21:45:29] <The_8472> wow, for an dns record..
[21:45:40] <erdgeist> The_8472: of course, case was dismissed after a year
[21:45:54] <erdgeist> The_8472: but all the confiscated hardware still hurts
[21:46:25] <The_8472> ... they could just copy the harddrives...
[21:46:34] <erdgeist> The_8472: "yeah right"
[21:46:41] <The_8472> amateurs at work...
[21:46:50] <DWKnight> they COULD
[21:46:55] <DWKnight> if they were competent
[21:47:15] <erdgeist> The_8472: it's like cops from the department handling business crimes know IT
[21:47:21] <The_8472> on what basis did they get a warrant anyway?
[21:47:40] <erdgeist> The_8472: on the basis of lying to the stat attorney
[21:48:16] <erdgeist> Making up some fake numbers, using screenshots to prove millions of infringments and so on
[21:48:25] <DWKnight> usual BS evidence
[21:48:48] <erdgeist> it's the german GVU, local branch/counter part of MAFIAA
[21:48:51] <The_8472> which,  of course, won't get them in any trouble at all -.-
[21:49:03] <erdgeist> No, of course not
[21:49:40] <The_8472> did you get the court and attorney fees back at least?
[21:49:53] <erdgeist> Our lawyer is preparing a civil case now, to get our expenses back
[21:49:56] <erdgeist> of course not
[21:50:12] <The_8472> bah... i hope you win that one :)
[21:50:40] <erdgeist> Luckily they only took 2 notebooks that actually hurt, the rest is just a pile of broken harddrives, that were intended to be molten at new years eve, anyway
[21:51:07] <The_8472> hahahaha, some CCC event?
[21:51:22] <erdgeist> The_8472: yes, post congress-party
[21:51:42] <erdgeist> The_8472: if you want, you can participate from your home town: http://events.ccc.de/congress/2009/wiki/index.php/Dragons_everywhere
[21:53:58] <The_8472> i'd have to secure my notebook a lot more before going there ^.^
[21:54:12] <erdgeist> The_8472: why? what are you running? OSX?
[21:54:21] <The_8472> windows and ubuntu
[21:54:32] <erdgeist> The_8472: go with ubuntu, then? ;)
[21:55:16] <The_8472> hrrrm, that would be an option
[21:56:23] <The_8472> speaking of the ccc. didn't they provide some expert witnesses for previous court cases?
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[21:56:58] <erdgeist> The_8472: well, yes. With me being one.
[21:57:15] <erdgeist> The_8472: this was about voting machines and data retention
[21:57:20] <The_8472> ah well, i doubt you would count as a neutral expert witness in your own court case
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[21:58:19] <erdgeist> The_8472: I'd have to go there with two different hats ;)
[21:59:11] <The_8472> that seems familiar... i'm wearing 2 hats in an online game i play. being player and admin at once leads to all kinds of suspicions
[21:59:46] <Andrius> "corrupted admins"
[22:01:47] <The_8472> what i always tell them is: "if i would be cheating then i'd be using far more subtle ways than you're accusing me of"
[22:03:32] <Andrius> and after you tell that, you can cheat in most obvious ways possible :P
[22:04:04] <The_8472> shhhhh!
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[22:10:56] <uriel> Astro: sorry, was away, and at the moment, no, but I not aware of any ipv6 trackers either...
[22:17:28] <The_8472> people should get used to putting AAAA records on everything...
[22:18:05] <The_8472> and it shouldn't be a problem for hosters to provide ipv6
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[22:51:57] <erdgeist> uriel: thepiratebay used to have a v6 tracker
[22:52:56] <erdgeist> uriel: the interims-location can only get v6 over a flaky 4to6 line
[22:53:56] <The_8472> afaik you don't have to use the anycast 6to4 gateway, you could specify a specific IP when you create the tunnel
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