[00:07:09] <TheSHAD0W> http://wifinetnews.com/archives/2009/11/county_shuts_down_hotspot_after_movie_download.html
[00:08:04] <K`Tetch> yeah, i know
[00:08:17] <K`Tetch> and now it looks like they'll be buying audible magic's copysense
[00:08:37] <K`Tetch> http://freakbits.com/single-movie-download-forces-wi-fi-network-shutdown-1110
[00:08:49] <The_8472> as if that would work
[00:12:10] <K`Tetch> right
[00:12:20] <K`Tetch> it doesn't work at all for bittorrent
[00:12:31] <K`Tetch> never has
[00:12:55] <K`Tetch> I've sent an email to the local newspaper there, and the city manager looking for information
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[01:03:06] <ruben23> hi
[01:05:04] <ruben23> anyone can suggest, ve try to follow the how to create a torrent file and uploaded it, but when other parties try to download the torrent file, no activity at all.
[01:06:15] <DWKnight> have either ends port forwarded?
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[01:07:25] <ruben23> DWKnight: i need to portforward..? both network..?
[01:07:36] <ruben23> what ports are involve..?
[01:07:37] <klapaucjusz> The_8472: it looks like I got BEP-32 to work in Transmission
[01:07:48] <The_8472> nice
[01:07:49] <klapaucjusz> (Partly, there's a couple of remaining tweaks to make)
[01:07:57] <klapaucjusz> Do you have your implementation running somewhere?
[01:08:00] <DWKnight> the listen port for your client defined in its preferences ruben23
[01:08:12] <The_8472> not right now
[01:08:14] <DWKnight> only one end is needed ofr basic
[01:08:23] <DWKnight> but both ends would be ideal
[01:08:23] <klapaucjusz> Any chance you could start it?
[01:08:33] <ruben23> DWKnight: how about the default..ill used..?
[01:08:46] <ruben23> what port is it...?
[01:09:02] <DWKnight> I don't know what client and version you're using
[01:09:17] <DWKnight> so I don't know what the default is supposed to be for you
[01:09:20] <ruben23>  DWKnight:im using bittorrent
[01:09:24] <ruben23> the latest
[01:09:41] <The_8472> i can in 20 minutes or so
[01:09:44] <DWKnight> you haven't told me the version number
[01:09:47] <klapaucjusz> Ok.
[01:09:48] <The_8472> 6to4 is acting up
[01:09:55] <klapaucjusz> Heh.  Just run Teredo.
[01:09:57] <The_8472> need to restart the router ^^
[01:10:11] <klapaucjusz> Ok.
[01:11:34] <ruben23>  DWKnight: bittorrent 6.3
[01:11:47] <DWKnight> check preferences - connection for the port number then
[01:12:44] <ruben23>  DWKnight: on my end...when i run my created torrent file then i run it--it get seed directly to 100 percent no activity..is this a rigth step..?
[01:13:08] <ruben23>  DWKnight: then ill share the torrent file then he will run it also
[01:13:16] <ruben23> to download
[01:13:43] <DWKnight> that's right
[01:14:04] <DWKnight> but if both of you are firewalled (no incoming connections possible) then you will not connect to each other
[01:14:57] <ruben23> DWKnight: my firewall is linux
[01:15:08] <DWKnight> I have a cat
[01:16:58] <ruben23> DWKnight: but why if i download a torrent file on sites like isohunt, i can download it and get the jobs done..?
[01:17:23] <ruben23> is this a different process on my torrent  file sharing to others
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[01:18:39] <DWKnight> the process isn't different
[01:18:39] <klapaucjusz> ruben23: for two people to connect, at least one must be unfirewalled
[01:18:56] <DWKnight> it's just that you're reaching people who have opened up their ports when you download from a big site
[01:18:58] <klapaucjusz> When you download a public torrent, you find somebody who is unfirewalled
[01:19:27] <ruben23> klapaucjusz:ok i got it..
[01:19:29] <ruben23> thanks
[01:20:22] <ruben23> anyone done it with linux iptables..?
[01:20:31] <klapaucjusz> Yes.
[01:20:37] <ruben23> port forwarding the ports for torrent
[01:20:54] <ruben23> klapaucjusz: do you have rules as basis..?
[01:21:19] <klapaucjusz> My scripts are on a router that's currently switched off.
[01:22:11] <klapaucjusz> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i whatever -p tcp --dport whatever ...
[01:22:27] <klapaucjusz> ... -j DNAT something or else
[01:22:34] <The_8472> ubuntu has ufw to create all that firewalling stuff
[01:22:45] <ruben23> im doing centos
[01:22:55] <klapaucjusz> The_8472: Ubuntu doesn't run on my 220 MHz MIPS router.
[01:23:01] <klapaucjusz> or at least not very well.
[01:23:19] <The_8472> well, he didn't state if it's an actual firewall on his PC or actually NATing
[01:23:20] <klapaucjusz> (The 8 MB of flash are limiting)
[01:23:55] <ruben23> mine i have a gateway server--distro ccentos....NAT...
[01:24:14] <The_8472> ah yes, then you need some DNATing
[01:24:24] <klapaucjusz> But yeah, The_8472 is right... there are user-friendly scripts and GUIs to do that sort of stuff
[01:25:36] <ruben23> The_8472:hws the rule for it..
[01:25:58] <The_8472> that would depend on your devices
[01:26:02] <The_8472> and the other rules too
[01:26:53] <klapaucjusz> ruben23: the proper solution is to run IPv6
[01:27:00] <klapaucjusz> ;-)
[01:27:20] <ruben23> thats too advance i think
[01:27:27] <ruben23> for my setup now
[01:35:20] <ruben23> hi
[01:35:38] <ruben23> is this true..?----------------------------->Bittorrent client by default uses tcp 6881 to 6889 ports only
[01:36:14] <The_8472> no, used to be that ages ago
[01:36:20] <The_8472> but that has long changed
[01:39:39] <DWKnight> hence why I told you to check the preferences
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[01:41:33] <ruben23>  DWKnight: yeah ts knew..? but how about the range..? in the preference i get this-->38295
[01:41:44] <DWKnight> there is no range anymore
[01:41:47] <DWKnight> only one port
[01:41:53] <ruben23> ok thanks
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[01:51:19] <klapaucjusz> The_8472: what about my IPv6 DHT?
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[01:56:43] <The_8472> klapaucjusz, try [2002:5936:bec8:1:29be:f1fa:5975:fe66]:49001
[01:58:21] <klapaucjusz> Hold on, I've just broken my code ;-)
[01:59:06] <The_8472> the version of radvd i have on my router is buggy. sometimes it just dies ~~
[01:59:18] <The_8472> and since i set the lease time for ipv6 to 5 minutes...
[01:59:27] <The_8472> the moment it dies i lose ipv6
[02:05:29] <klapaucjusz> The_8472: AdvValidLifetime 86000
[02:06:13] <The_8472> nononono
[02:06:18] <The_8472> i havea dynamic ipv4
[02:06:23] <The_8472> they have to expire fast
[02:06:32] <klapaucjusz> Ouch.
[02:07:56] <The_8472> anyway, my instance is eagerly awaiting your packets ^^
[02:08:15] <klapaucjusz> Yeah, but I've broken everything
[02:08:38] <The_8472> what was that about decentralized repositories, branches and all? :P
[02:09:15] <klapaucjusz> Hey, I've still got three other branches of Transmission that compile
[02:09:31] <klapaucjusz> But they don't do BEP-32.
[02:09:54] <The_8472> hehe
[02:10:06] <klapaucjusz> (Hey, who hasn't fundamentally changed a data structure the day before release?)
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[02:15:45] <klapaucjusz> rc = getsockname(dht_socket6, (struct sockaddr*)&sin6, &sin6len);
[02:16:11] <klapaucjusz> Sounds familiar ;-)
[02:16:46] <The_8472> sortof, except that they're both the same variable in different objects here ;)
[02:17:27] <klapaucjusz>         if(numnodes6 < 8) {
[02:17:33] <klapaucjusz>             /* To accelerate bootstrapping, advertise ourselves. */
[02:19:11] <The_8472> hrrm, ah right... only if it's not full
[02:19:14] <The_8472> i shall fix that
[02:19:25] <klapaucjusz> Heh.
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[02:20:17] <The_8472> 		if(includeOurself && owner.getServer().getPublicAddress() != null && entries.size() < max_entries)
[02:20:17] <The_8472> 		{
[02:20:17] <The_8472> 			InetSocketAddress sockAddr = new InetSocketAddress(owner.getServer().getPublicAddress(), owner.getServer().getPort());
[02:20:17] <The_8472> 			entries.put(targetKey.distance(owner.getOurID()), new KBucketEntry(sockAddr, owner.getOurID()));
[02:22:49] <klapaucjusz> Why owner.getOurID()?
[02:22:56] <klapaucjusz> Why not simply owner.id?
[02:23:01] <klapaucjusz> (Ah, those Java people.)
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[02:24:07] <The_8472> because it doesn't implicit conversion from property access to getters/setters
[02:24:16] <The_8472> *doesn't do
[02:24:22] <The_8472> groovy does though
[02:25:13] <klapaucjusz> Ouch.
[02:25:43] <klapaucjusz> Okay, I'll reformulate
[02:25:55] <klapaucjusz> Why do you need a silly getter when it's just a field?
[02:26:44] <The_8472> a) it's not supposed to be writeable by everyone b) it's not a field, it delegates to node.getOurID(), which in turn fetches it from a datastore for configuration serialization
[02:26:58] <The_8472> where "datastore" is a fancy word for a hashmap
[02:27:08] <klapaucjusz> What you say?
[02:27:17] <The_8472> ^^
[02:27:57] <The_8472> owner is of type dht. getourid delegates to getourid of the type node. which in turn does
[02:27:58] <The_8472> 	public Key getOurID () {
[02:27:58] <The_8472> 		return (Key)dataStore.get("commonKey");
[02:27:58] <The_8472> 	}
[02:28:02] <klapaucjusz> It compiled!
[02:28:14] <klapaucjusz> Okay, what's your address once again?
[02:28:25] <The_8472> [2002:5936:bec8:1:29be:f1fa:5975:fe66]:49001
[02:30:57] <klapaucjusz> Hmm... it looks like you don't answer
[02:31:08] <The_8472> let me check if it's bound properly
[02:31:14] <klapaucjusz> I cannot ping you
[02:32:24] <The_8472> dht ping or ip ping?
[02:32:31] <klapaucjusz> ICMPv6
[02:32:52] <klapaucjusz> (Well, DHT ping too, of course)
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[02:33:16] <The_8472> ping -t -S 2002:5936:bec8:1:29be:f1fa:5975:fe66 ipv6.google.com
[02:33:16] <The_8472> Antwort von 2001:4860:a003::68: Zeit=93ms
[02:33:17] <The_8472> Antwort von 2001:4860:a003::68: Zeit=72ms
[02:33:21] <The_8472> seems to work though
[02:33:50] <klapaucjusz> 64 bytes from 2001:4860:a005::68: icmp_seq=1 ttl=58 time=201 ms
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[02:34:47] <The_8472> what's your ipv6?
[02:35:25] <klapaucjusz> see priv
[02:36:02] <The_8472> i can icmp6 ping you at least
[02:36:30] <The_8472> but i have no interface to manually add nodes to the DHT ~~
[02:36:41] <klapaucjusz> Hmm.
[02:36:48] <The_8472> hrrm... i'll just replace the bittorrent bootstrap node with you ^^
[02:37:05] <The_8472> should i use the debugging one?
[02:37:24] <klapaucjusz> Yes, please
[02:38:10] <klapaucjusz> The_8472: perhaps simpler
[02:38:21] <klapaucjusz> Why don't you switch to Teredod instead of 6to4?
[02:38:54] <The_8472> too late, already found you
[02:39:01] <klapaucjusz> Oh my god!
[02:39:31] <klapaucjusz>  Node 25b88239fa3447dd8f0ea7b4e743307c42f11137 2002:5936:bec8:1:29be:f1fa:5975:fe66:49001 age 2, 1258076867
[02:39:39] <The_8472> that's me
[02:39:40] <klapaucjusz> Interoperating the first time around!
[02:41:10] <klapaucjusz> Okay, you answer.
[02:41:23] <klapaucjusz>  Node 25b88239fa3447dd8f0ea7b4e743307c42f11137 2002:5936:bec8:1:29be:f1fa:5975:fe66:49001 age 15, 62 (good)
[02:42:23] <The_8472> right now i mgiht not answer... stepdebugging ^^
[02:42:50] <klapaucjusz> Transmission is refusing to make a DHT announce.
[02:43:03] <klapaucjusz> It says that three nodes is not enough to consider the DHT as bootstrapped :-)
[02:43:42] <The_8472> is it possible that you're sending.. /0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:6970 in your nodes?
[02:43:52] <klapaucjusz> No idea
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[02:44:08] <The_8472> yes, you do
[02:44:14] <phpwner> why does it take forever to update a tracker?
[02:44:25] <klapaucjusz> Which of I?
[02:44:42] <klapaucjusz> Ah, okay.
[02:44:45] <klapaucjusz> I got it.
[02:44:45] <The_8472> the debug instance
[02:44:53] <klapaucjusz> Yep, that's a bug.
[02:45:11] <klapaucjusz> getsockname on an unconnected socket.
[02:45:12] <klapaucjusz> Bleh.
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[02:46:02] <phpwner> what exactly does update tracker do that could take so long? should it depend at all on the number of torrents loaded in a client?
[02:46:39] <klapaucjusz> The_8472: can you send me a ping again?  You're unreachable again.
[02:48:19] <klapaucjusz> Ok.
[02:49:52] <The_8472> klapaucjusz, uh... congestion. let me fix that ^^
[02:50:11] <The_8472> phpwner, simple. the tracker might be overloaded/not reachable. just like a regular website
[02:52:20] <phpwner> hmm
[02:52:43] <phpwner> i considered that but it happens too often...
[02:55:52] <klapaucjusz> phpwner: that's why we're working on the DHT.
[02:55:58] <klapaucjusz> Trackers are obsolete.
[02:56:13] <klapaucjusz> (And if you're using a private tracker, you lose.)
[02:57:03] <klapaucjusz> You're a little aggressive
[02:57:09] <klapaucjusz> age 3, 439 (good)
[02:57:29] <klapaucjusz> That means you contacted me 3 seconds ago, I contacted you 439 seconds ago
[02:58:01] <The_8472> yeah, bootstrap loops if i don't have any other nodes
[02:58:07] <The_8472> doesn't happen once it's life
[02:58:42] <klapaucjusz> I'm giving up on this bucket for 900 seconds.
[02:59:18] <klapaucjusz> (I've got plenty of IPv4 buckets to fill.)
[02:59:42] <klapaucjusz> The advantage of spaghetti code, I guess.
[03:00:19] <klapaucjusz> Okay, I'll set up a bootstrap node this week-end.
[03:00:31] <klapaucjusz> On native IPv6, with a nice DNS name.
[03:01:16] <klapaucjusz> age 75, 726 (good)
[03:02:43] <klapaucjusz> And yes, I'm seeing what you described yesterday, broken nodes that send me IPv6 pings although they only implement the IPv4 DHT.
[03:03:02] 
[03:03:24] <alus> uT sends v6 pings by mistake?
[03:03:30] <The_8472> yep
[03:03:33] <alus> oh.
[03:03:35] <klapaucjusz> alus: http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=64053
[03:04:35] <alus> will fix. thanks.
[03:05:51] <klapaucjusz> Note that it's two distinct bugs -- obeying a peer's v6 PORT when you don't implement BEP-32, and sending v6 PORT when you don't implement BEP-32.
[03:06:02] <klapaucjusz> Transmission was guilty of only one :-)
[03:07:06] <alus> yeah, I see
[03:07:38] <The_8472> the best way to fix that is implementing BEP32 of course ;)
[03:07:54] <klapaucjusz> The_8472: you're sending me a burst of a few dozen pings in one second intervals!
[03:07:57] <klapaucjusz> Calm down!
[03:08:03] <The_8472> pings?
[03:08:08] <The_8472> i'm not sending any, i think
[03:08:11] <klapaucjusz> Sorry, find_node.
[03:08:34] <The_8472> yes, as i said. bootstrap loops ^^
[03:08:43] <klapaucjusz> Get it fixed, then.
[03:08:50] <The_8472> yesyes
[03:08:53] <klapaucjusz> We'll be running with disconnected bits of DHT for months to come.
[03:09:42] <klapaucjusz> (Until the largest connected component becomes large enough to pull in all the others.)
[03:09:52] <The_8472> well, once we have enough dualstack nodes random encounters in the ipv4 dht should fuse things. and once the routing table gets big enough it should be self-sustaining
[03:10:10] <The_8472> especially if there are nodes with fixed IPs
[03:10:44] <The_8472> 24/7 online and fixed IPs = they will most likely be persisted in a bunch of routing table caches
[03:11:19] <klapaucjusz> Still, your implementation shouldn't spam even if it is stuck in a tiny, disconnected component.
[03:12:47] <The_8472> yes, going to fix that
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[03:16:55] <klapaucjusz> What I'm doing is simply sending enough find_nodes to ensure that every bucket has at least one node that replied in the last 15 minutes.
[03:17:12] <alus> klapaucjusz: fixed, thanks
[03:17:23] <klapaucjusz> Additionally, I ping my own bucket (randomly, with a lot of jitter) as long as it continues growing.
[03:17:35] <klapaucjusz> alus: great.
[03:17:42] <klapaucjusz> That's what I call being quick.
[03:18:10] <klapaucjusz> The result is that this stabilises after an hour or so.
[03:18:34] <The_8472> what stabilizes?
[03:18:44] <klapaucjusz> Faster if there are any announces (since the information from an announce is used for the main routing table).
[03:18:47] <klapaucjusz> The main routing table.
[03:19:16] <klapaucjusz> The idea being that if you're not going to stay online for long, and you're not doing any announces, then there's no reason why you need a full routing table.
[03:19:47] <The_8472> to give decent responses to those who do lookups
[03:20:31] <klapaucjusz> But if you've been around for a short time, then you're not in the routing tables of a lot of people yet,
[03:20:46] <klapaucjusz> so you're not doing much harm by bailing out on other peoples' queries.
[03:20:58] <The_8472> anyway, filling the routingtable is easy. 1 lookup onto your own ID, 1 random lookup per bucket. Each lookup takes at most 100 requests. that's about 1500 requests to setup the routingtable. and only if it's empty. since we persist our table to the disk it can be a lot cheaper to restart
[03:21:02] <klapaucjusz> This has to be balanced, of course, but I'd rather be less aggressive than more.
[03:21:35] <klapaucjusz> Okay, I'm going.
[03:21:38] <klapaucjusz> See youse.
[03:21:41] <The_8472> *waves*
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[04:36:34] <evil_droid> I'm looking for a simple bit torrent client for linux.  web-based would be nice, standalone web-based would be even better.
[04:48:49] <alus> "standalone web-based"?
[04:53:40] <K`Tetch> if it's web based, might be hard for you to be downloading and uploading parts of the file
[04:54:04] <K`Tetch> (unless you're talking about that imagehost place that did a torrent acfcount a year or so back)
[04:56:05] <K`Tetch> http://torrentfreak.com/imageshacks-free-torrent-download-service-expands-080727/
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[13:35:30] <bt42> K`Tetch: http://consumerist.com/5403592/mpaa-shuts-down-towns-free-muni-wifi-over-1-download#c16775254
[13:35:38] <bt42> kicking ass and taking names as usual i see
[13:46:21] <TheSHAD0W> Well...
[13:46:40] <TheSHAD0W> The article implies the MPAA demanded the network be shut down...
[13:47:07] <TheSHAD0W> But it could be that the city gov't got a notice and freaked out.
[13:51:29] <Switeck> quite likely
[13:51:44] <DWKnight> K`Tetch asked the town reps in charge wtf
[13:51:55] <DWKnight> not sure if he got an answer yet
[14:01:34] <alus> I imagine they said "what is 'wtf'?"
[14:11:27] <alus> they would Google it, but their internet is out
[14:21:31] <bt42> :(
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[16:06:58] <K`Tetch> yeah, no response yet
[16:07:13] <K`Tetch> TF ran the story monday/tuesday
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[16:16:11] <The_8472> interesting. has been ages since i've seen some anti-p2p ip range flooding a torrent
[16:17:02] <Andrius> it's been ages since I last looked at peerlist long enough to nocice such things
[16:17:21] <The_8472> only takes a few seconds to look at the peer list oO
[16:17:45] <The_8472> it's quite obvious when you see 50 peers all from the same /24 subnet
[16:18:42] <Andrius> well yeah, but I rarely look at peer list :)
[16:19:31] <K`Tetch> well, mediadfefender did kinda go bankrupt, and just got reformed into a new company
[16:19:34] <K`Tetch> that could be why
[16:20:27] <Andrius> so they're back to "defend" the media now?:)
[16:21:22] <K`Tetch> http://torrentfreak.com/peer-media-mediadefender-and-media-sentry-rebranded-090818/
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[17:13:35] <Andrius> more bencode randomness: are 'de', 'le' and '0:' valid?
[17:15:00] <Andrius> I think I've seen discussion how clients shouldn't explode on empty strings, but don't remember ever seeing talk about empty dictionaries or lists here
[17:22:39] <The_8472> we've seen them, so yeah, you should be able to deal with them
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[17:47:37] <alus> Andrius: implementing a bdecoder?
[17:48:06] <alus> Andrius: if so, what language?
[17:48:43] <charles> iirc "0:" is explicitly valid
[17:49:52] <charles> hm, maybe not.  but yes, I've seen all three of those
[17:50:10] <Andrius> alus, something like that, in C. And yes, I know I could probably find some bencode library on the net.
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[17:56:13] <Andrius> alus, did you expect me to be writing bdecoder for some strange language?:)
[17:59:10] <alus> Andrius: well, I expected you would not write one in a language where one already exists
[17:59:37] <alus> Andrius: so yes, some strange language ;)
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[20:23:25] <burris> yay in order file downloading
[20:29:57] <The_8472> what is to yay about that?
[20:30:03] <The_8472> it hurts the swarm...
[20:30:14] <burris> always?
[20:30:31] <The_8472> unless it's heavily seeded
[20:30:49] <burris> how often does that happen?
[20:31:14] <The_8472> depends on the environment. CDN-backed or on private trackers maybe
[20:31:22] <DWKnight> [3:39:03pm] <The_8472> unless it's heavily seeded <-- this? rare enough that torrents die about 3-5 months ahead of when they should
[20:32:36] <DWKnight> I've seen sequential downloading kill torrents months ahead of their expected lifespans
[20:32:39] <burris> the tracker I'm downloading from, http://bt.etree.org/ anything older than five or six hours is like that... the torrent i'm on is 30 seeds and no peers
[20:32:49] <mpl> I've wondered about a similar feature. how do clients implement priorities to some files in a torrent?
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[20:33:16] <The_8472> mpl, on a best-effort basis, hopefully
[20:33:44] <The_8472> try to prefer high priority pieces, but only if we can still satisfy the rarest-first policy for at least some pieces in progress
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[20:34:06] <mpl> I see. thanks.
[20:34:39] <The_8472> burris: http://www.azureuswiki.com/index.php?title=Sequential_downloading_is_bad
[20:35:51] <burris> thanks but none of that applies to any of the torrents I ever download, there's either tons of seeds and just me downloading or just me and one other seed downloading
[20:36:51] <burris> usually when there is one seed you can't download fast enough to listen to a show while it downloads
[20:37:11] <The_8472> patience!
[20:39:42] <burris> this client sets all files priority to low and the first to high then only changes the next file to high once the current high file gets to 100%...  usally there are a number of slow uploaders and what happens is while waiting for those slow uploaders to complete the current high file, the fast downloaders start downloading pieces at random from the rest of the torrent, so usually you end up downloading quite a bit from all over
[20:39:43] <burris>  and definitely not in strict sequential file or piece order
[20:41:06] <burris> but still fast enough when my pitiiful pipe is maxed to listen to 16/44 flacs once the first track or two is downloaded, depending on the length
[20:41:45] <The_8472> well, at least it attempts to implement it reasonably
[20:42:22] <The_8472> but still, you could just build a buffer. download ahead of time
[20:42:36] <burris> well what about BT DNA?  it obviously must do something to balance in order piece delivery vs rarest
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[20:44:20] <The_8472> well, most streaming solutions are CDN-backed
[20:44:34] <The_8472> so you have plenty of seeds that can jump in if necessary
[20:45:18] <burris> oh yeah, it's an offloader rather than a strict replacement
[20:45:24] <The_8472> yeah
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