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[02:46:25] <TheSHAD0W`> I just realized.
[02:46:45] <TheSHAD0W`> There's a very simple, stupid way to solve the fragmentation problem for uTP.
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[02:49:21] <TheSHAD0W> (1) When the client gets a "packet too big" message, reduce the packet size.
[02:49:50] <TheSHAD0W> (2) If a connection becomes dysfunctional due to a skipped packet, just let it drop and re-establish.
[02:49:54] <TheSHAD0W> Done.
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[04:22:11] <alus> TheSHAD0W: or we could just fix the protocol
[04:22:36] <TheSHAD0W> True.
[04:29:04] <The_8472> jch raised some interesting points though
[04:32:06] <alus> where?
[04:33:04] <The_8472> the other thread
[04:33:17] <The_8472> like why tcp-lp wasn't considered
[04:35:35] <alus> url? I have the answer
[04:35:56] <The_8472> http://forum.bittorrent.org/viewtopic.php?id=131
[04:42:45] <alus> responded
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[11:47:07] <qe2eqe> Is there a linux app that lets you move your torrents into a directory (e.g. /music) and still seed?
[11:48:20] <kjetilho> qe2eqe: you could leave behind a symlink
[11:52:29] <qe2eqe> kjetilho, can you think of a super elegant way to do that?
[11:52:40] <kjetilho> no :-)
[12:09:33] <qe2eqe> kjetilho, 'set location' in transmission client does it
[12:09:46] <qe2eqe> is context menu
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[12:10:59] <chelz> how many seconds it would take on the average torrent client to send data that was just received, say one piece?
[12:11:33] <chelz> theoretically it would all be in memory, so on a machine purchased in the last few years it should be only a few i think
[12:12:17] <DWKnight> the instant the piece passes the hash check it is available for upload
[12:13:46] <chelz> so chances are less than a second for a 256 KiB piece
[12:13:48] <DWKnight> demand conditions are where the real delays come from in that case
[12:14:43] <chelz> i'm working in a theoretical perfect swarm where it would be requested already and would be ready to be received as soon as it's available
[12:14:57] <chelz> i wonder how long a 4 MiB piece would take to hash
[12:14:59] <kjetilho> chelz: it can't be requested before it's available
[12:15:08] <kjetilho> chelz: your client will tell its peers that it has the piece.  then your peers will recalculate the rareness, then they will make a request
[12:15:25] <chelz> ah
[12:15:41] <DWKnight> the average SHA1 algo on modern systems hash at over 10mbyte/sec
[12:15:51] <DWKnight> usually closer to 30-40
[12:15:55] <chelz> that's a good figure
[12:15:56] <chelz> is there a rationale up anywhere behind the piece size choices?
[12:16:04] <kjetilho> keep torrent file size down
[12:16:24] <DWKnight> keep the torrent file size down while still having fast propogation of pieces
[12:16:28] <kjetilho> also keeps initial bitmap size down
[12:16:48] <DWKnight> different torrent makers have different piece size thresholds
[12:16:54] <chelz> interesting
[12:17:04] <chelz> so it's not part of the torrent metainfo file spec?
[12:17:31] <DWKnight> http://wiki.theory.org/BitTorrentSpecification#Metainfo_File_Structure
[12:17:49] <chelz> aha
[12:18:06] <DWKnight> there is no hard definition saying all torrents of a certain size must have a certain piece size
[12:18:41] <qe2eqe> DWKnight, unless you're moving a single byte
[12:18:43] <chelz> ah
[12:19:10] <chelz> there are some recommended figures in there but all without citation. it would be interesting if some raw math could come up with some proven figures.
[12:19:17] <chelz> times like these i wish i knew more math :(
[12:21:33] <qe2eqe> Anyone know if theres a way I can retro-retorrent things I got from torrents?
[12:22:06] <DWKnight> the same way you would resume a partial download qe2eqe
[12:22:37] <qe2eqe> DWKnight, Assuming the original .torrents are lost.
[12:22:42] <DWKnight> redownload them
[12:22:47] <qe2eqe> s/lost/lost to me
[12:22:56] <DWKnight> re-find them
[12:23:06] <DWKnight> because there are too many nuances to deal with otherwise
[12:23:11] <chelz> as long as the piece size matches and anything else that affects the hash i think the hash would be the same
[12:23:15] <qe2eqe> well yeah, but thats a huge pain just for karma
[12:23:25] <chelz> such as a private flag
[12:23:36] <DWKnight> chelz: there's more than just that
[12:23:47] <DWKnight> filenames and folder names are case sensitive
[12:23:53] <chelz> ah that too
[12:23:55] <qe2eqe> DWKnight, not much more
[12:24:06] <chelz> i sorta put that under the heading of "anything else that affects the hash"
[12:24:14] <DWKnight> and if they used torrent makers that had additional file hashes included, there's that to include
[12:24:31] <chelz> i assumed having the files with the same filenames
[12:24:44] <DWKnight> honestly, it's easier to just find the .torrent on an appropriate index site than to try to guess what was included
[12:24:49] <chelz> oh that's interesting
[12:24:59] <chelz> a torrent maker that inserts file hashes of nonpresent files
[12:25:13] <DWKnight> chelz: no
[12:25:14] <kjetilho> chelz: you'd still need to get the ordering right
[12:25:32] <DWKnight> includes file-level hashes of the files actually in the torrent
[12:25:38] * DWKnight pimp-hands chelz
[12:26:04] <chelz> oh like a .sfv
[12:26:15] <DWKnight> except integrated into the .torrent
[12:26:41] <chelz> i didn't know you could do that :o
[12:27:20] <chelz> i see mention of an optional md5sum in the info dictionary
[12:27:29] <chelz> in that spec
[12:27:40] <chelz> interesting that that would affect the torrenthash
[12:27:41] <DWKnight> some torrent makers add other hashes
[12:27:42] <qe2eqe> my test algorithm of md5ing a file and googling it was total fail
[12:28:03] <chelz> DWKnight: what are names of some?
[12:28:09] <DWKnight> http://wiki.depthstrike.com/index.php/EAD:Utilities:TorrentBuild
[12:28:12] <DWKnight> one I made
[12:28:15] <chelz> nice
[12:28:22] <DWKnight> shareaza's one supports SHA1 and TTH
[12:28:27] <DWKnight> and ED2K
[12:28:38] <DWKnight> AZ does SHA1 and ED2K if told to
[12:28:52] <chelz> oh wow, that's blurring the line between magnet and torrentmetainfo now
[12:29:18] <DWKnight> shareaza actually reads the info for all those hashes
[12:29:40] <chelz> and about the original question, i was thinking in terms of having all of the data within the original torrent and only for purposes of rejoining a swarm as a seed, not to have a torrent file that was bit-for-bit identical to the original file
[12:29:41] <DWKnight> not sure about multi-file torrents, but single-file torrents DO work for this
[12:30:13] <chelz> DWKnight: do other torrent creators do that to? or do you know someone on their team? or are they planning for the future?
[12:30:14] <DWKnight> if it's not in the info dictionary, it isn't needed to reseed
[12:30:32] <chelz> qe2eqe: yeah depends on what you need to do
[12:30:33] <DWKnight> ABC was working on adding them, they got as far as SHA1 and ran out of hash libs
[12:31:10] <qe2eqe> DWKnight, what do you think the volume of a repo like thepiratebay is?
[12:31:34] <chelz> the torrent for it is ~20-25 GiB iirc
[12:31:54] <chelz> the tpb archive torrent that is in a mysql format
[12:32:21] <chelz> uncompressed
[12:32:25] <DWKnight> sounds reasonable for their entire database of over 2mil torrents
[12:32:31] <DWKnight> anyway, I've got to get to work
[12:33:05] <chelz> DWKnight: are hashes other than md5 part of any specs out there or is your src the spec? ;)
[12:36:15] <kjetilho> chelz: the torrent file has to be bit-for-bit identical (more or less) to be able to rejoin a swarm
[12:41:12] <chelz> kjetilho: only things that affect the torrent hash i think though. stuff like adding/removing trackers doesn't matter for example.
[12:42:51] <kjetilho> right
[12:48:33] <chelz> so i'm guessing AZ is referring to azureus
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[12:57:15] <TheSHAD0W> Or Azathoth.
[12:57:36] <TheSHAD0W> Some people just can't get enough of them old gods.
[13:05:54] <chelz> Azathoth the Nuclear Chaos, the Daemon Sultan and the Blind Idiot God.
[13:58:24] <DWKnight> chelz: azureus and shareaza had the support for most of those hashes before my torrent maker did
[14:14:57] <chelz> ah
[14:15:29] <chelz> that's pretty cool. preparing for the future.
[14:15:59] <DWKnight> shareaza, at the time I was writing my torrent maker, already supported the use of the SHA1 hash for single-file torrents
[14:16:08] <DWKnight> I personally put the code in for TTH, ED2K and MD5
[14:16:46] <chelz> in shareaza?
[14:17:45] <DWKnight> yes
[14:18:00] <chelz> wow awesome
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[17:25:14] <uriel> K`Tetch_: let me know when you have that article ready, just want to make sure all is working fine and I'm awake before I get torrent-freaked ;)
[17:25:23] * uriel goes to sleep now
[17:56:32] <K`Tetch_> will do uriel
[17:56:37] <K`Tetch_> working on it now
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[18:03:54] <The_8472> what was he developing again?
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[19:59:44] * K`Tetch_ fwaps Nolar
[20:01:15] <The_8472> rofl. the IPv6 dht gets a few stray packets via ipv6, but obviously only supporting IPv4 nodes -.-
[20:07:05] <Nolar> K`Tetch_ ?
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[20:50:07] <uriel> The_8472: http://www.trackon.org
[20:50:18] <K`Tetch_> quick nap
[20:50:19] * uriel wakes up and goes huntting for some food
[20:50:57] <The_8472> ah, that one. i wasn't sure if you were doing the tracker proxy thing or the tracker tracker ^^
[20:51:04] <uriel> K`Tetch_: heh, was just a 'siesta', I'm really beatten up from moving forniture around (and now I need to go shopping for some more stuff for the new flat)
[20:51:20] <uriel> The_8472: medecau was doing the tracker proxy
[20:51:47] <The_8472> i think i have come up with a better alternative than a tracker proxy
[20:52:20] <uriel> The_8472: yes?
[20:52:34] <The_8472> <infohash>.dnstracker.com, <infohash>.mytorrentsite.com, <infohash>.xyz.abc.
[20:53:07] <The_8472> dynamically resolve it to an active, real tracker tracking the particular torrent of that infohash
[20:53:18] <The_8472> via dns
[20:53:33] <uriel> that is an interesting idea... but obviously can't be implemented with app engine :/
[20:53:47] <The_8472> yes, i know
[20:54:49] <The_8472> it would allow you to basically the same with with a lot less overhead though
[20:54:59] <The_8472> and a worldwide caching infrastructure
[20:55:11] <The_8472> i.e. dns caches
[20:56:10] <The_8472> uriel, no absolute uptime figure on your site?
[20:57:59] <uriel> The_8472: I'm not confident enough about that, I fear there might be a transient error that would be confused with the tracker being down..
[20:58:14] <The_8472> ok, well... a "first seen" then
[20:58:22] <uriel> yes, that I should certainly do
[20:59:06] <The_8472> i'm more concerned about transient trackers than transient errors ^^
[21:00:22] <The_8472> things like country (geoip)/asn or similar of the tracker's IP(s) might be interesting too
[21:01:06] <uriel> The_8472: ah, that is a neat idea..
[21:02:27] <The_8472> thinking of it... ipv6 and udp support...
[21:02:49] * The_8472 should stop thinking
[21:02:55] <uriel> that will happen when app engine supports it :)
[21:02:59] <uriel> no, they are good ideas
[21:03:42] <uriel> the country/geoip idea I had not thought of, and should be quite easy and sort of neat (although I guess a bit useless), could even have a map displaying the approximate location of each tracker
[21:04:38] <uriel> The_8472: let me know if you hvae more ideas, now I really need to go huntting for food before the stores close or I'll starve to death ;P
[21:05:14] <The_8472> happy hunting then
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[21:40:57] <medecau> The_8472:  i like that idea too, using DNS instead of HTTP redirect.
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